I HATE MEL CLAYTON FORD ripoff Phoenix Arizona *UPDATE: Dealer does right by customer, after 5 minutes of picketing and long heated conversation with badbusinessbureau.com ...*Thank you!

Just minutes after picketing started in front of Mel Clayton Ford and after a long heated conversation between sales manager Dave Kaiser and badbusinessbureau.com, the following events happened.

The day after we hacked out a settlement with the sales manager, badbusinessbureau.com received a phone call from the victim Jeremy in-between his dealings with Mel Clayton Ford. Jeremy told us that Mel Clayton Ford was going to do right by him and rescinded his old car contract and refund his down payment in full, for $1,700.

Jeremy called badbusinessbureau.com during a smoke break, just after going over the paper work and the deal.

Mel Clayton Ford put Jeremy in a new 2001 Ford Focus at no extra cost, fully loaded, with an 11% interest through Ford Motor company. A lot better than the 21.95% the victim was paying with good credit! The victim, Jeremy sounds very happy once again with Mel Clayton Ford as any customer should be when they spend their hard earned money.

Jeremy said they were so nice to him... Well, ..hold on, ..not exactly. Apparently, after Jeremy took his smoke break and calling us at badbusinessbureau.com, Mel Clayton Ford made Jeremy sign some sort of agreement, stopping him from speaking any further of the deal, or the deal was off!
Sorry Mel Clayton Ford, we had already talked with the victim before you made him sign documents. Dave Kaiser, don't you remember? When Jeremy showed up at your driveway picketing with a big Rip-off sign and a sign that said "I hat Mel Clayton Ford."... do you remember? Remember after you called badbusinessbureau.com we negotiated the deal with you for over one hour! Remember, you thanked us for our service we provide to consumers. You apologized to us and said, "this should have never happened." You seemed so sincere. You also stated, that if you previously had known of the situation, you would have rectified the situation immediately. Well, you know that was a lie. Jeremy tried for almost a year to contact you and you would never respond, ..only some lackey of yours who would just give him the run-around.

Dave Kaiser, that's not all. When we called back Jeremy to let him know what arrangement we had come to with you, he let us know another little tid-bit of deception your sales people pulled, that I wish I knew before. .... YOUR SALESMAN LIED to Jeremy about the cars history. When Jeremy went the very first time to get the car serviced, the service man asked Jeremy, "is this car still owned by the rental company?" .. so,... this car was fraudulently sold to Jeremy as a one owner car. This car was driven into the ground as a rental. (more to come on dealers selling rental cars as demos, executive cars, the salesman's car, the owners car, etc.)

Vin # 1FAFP33P9YW115582 .. this car was sold to the victim as a one owner car.

It's amazing how sincere Mr. Dave Kaiser sounded when we talked with him. A career car salesman, what else should we expect?

Below is the UPDATE that was originally submitted by the victim the day after the settlement.

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
Subj: FWD: I hate mel clayton ford no longer
From: "Jeremy"
To: info@badbusinessbureau.com (Consumer Advocate)
Reply-To: "Jeremy Jensen"
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 20:30:13 -0700

I wanted to take this time to thank Ed & Stick for taking the time to work with me to achieve a resolve of my issues with Mel Clayton Ford. I would also like to let everyone that reads this report that MCF is no longer a rip off in my eyes. After 8 months of dealing with this problem the General Manager finally found out about my problem and took matters into his own hands. Within 24 hours of dealing with this good gentleman my issue was resolved I have a new car that I am 100% satisfied with. I recommend to anyone that needs a new car to see Mel Clayton Ford, and if you have a serious issue go see the General Manager. He is a man that gets things done.

EDITORS NOTE: ...yeah right.

Rip-offReport.com could not reach the victim to verify the final interest that he would be charged. Most of the time what you are told by the dealer is not what you will actually be paying. Rip-off Report.com made a call to the Finance company to verify the interest rate that was being charged to the victim. The interest rate is now only 8 1/2%. ... Not too shabby, a lot better than the 21.95% the victim was paying before.

This dealer definitely did right by this consumer.

EDitor@badbusinessbureau.com

i have some questions regarding the report jeremy submitted. number one, was the selling price of the car $10,000? i ask this because of the statement that jeremy made about what the car was worth. number two, did the salesperson ask about other bills and paystubs from the initial approval?

i ask these questions because of the claims that jeremy made about the total of payments of $32705.60. what was the term of the loan? what was the selling price? did he put $1700 or $2000 cash down?

i took the time to compute the numbers at 72 months, if that was the term, it takes a loan of $18,000 to achieve that total of payments. at 60 months it is about 19800.

i would like some clarification about the terms and selling price as well as any adds ie. warranty, gap, disability. i ask because i work in the car business, and find my job to be very rewarding. some of the things jeremy says lead me to believe he probably had some credit issues. all second chance lenders ask for the utility bills and paystubs. almost none of the primary lenders ask for such things unless your a risk. if you are a risk then the rate will go up. i know from experience you cant get an approval in just a few minutes through most lenders especially second chance lenders.

i have a feeling jeremy was such a risk. i find it hard to believe they would give him 9% on a loan, because that was an a tier rate in july of 2000. when you continue to say he got a 2001 focus later at 11% i assume that was a brand new focus. the reason i say this is 11.9% is an incentivised rate through fmcc for tiers 3-4, or high risk credit customers.

in closing, its hard to get high risk customers a loan period, much less at a good rate. it sounds like they tried to get the lower rates for jeremy and couldn't get the approval of the lending institution. i want to get a response out of this letter because what seems to be happening on your website is not factual of the car business that i know and love. most dealers work hard to make their customers happy. there are alot of choices a consumer can make, we realize this.

excercise your right to leave if you feel uneasy. any quality dealer will have no problem with that.

just remember, just like all of you, we're just trying to make a living and keep our customers coming back. and we spend all day and half the night at the dealership to help you, the buyer!

Scott have you ever heard of a car dealer buying the interest rate down to make the car buyer HAPPY?

I worked in the auto business for several years. During that time, I saw many sales managers that had bought the rate down many times. They did this to make the car buyer happy usually after ripping them off.

Maybe you work for a crappie car dealer that would never think of doing this for their customers because they are too damn GREEDY? It would lower the dealers’ backend gross.

Here at the Rip Off Report we know very well that car dealers do not like what we do, but we are sure that the consumers like what we do.

Remember the old saying “You can not please everybody”. We are here to help consumers, if they want our help, thereby pissing off retailers of all sorts that bend consumers over. That means that we will always be on the look out for dirty deceptive car dealers!

We feel that the American public has been through enough and we are helping them regain some of their buying power that has been lost with dealing with deceptive retailers.

In the past, car dealers have been able to do what ever they want and get away with it, not anymore my fellow American!

We here at Rip Off Report have a massive number of advocates across the country to assist in exposing dirty businesses that Rip Off consumers.

By the way Scott do you know what these and many other web sites like these do for car dealers?

www.grandcardone.com
www.biggross.com
www.davidlewis.com
www.joeverde.com

Do I need to mention more of them?

I feel that deception MUST BE EXPOSED! I will do everything I can to expose every dirty car dealer I can, even your car dealer if I discover deception.

Call up Ford Motor Corp and ask them if the Rip Off Report is a Thorn in their Butt?

Have you ever felt good about doing something that you KNOW will help someone Scott?

Hey Scott! Please read the Rip Off Report on Bill Heard Chevy in Scottsdale AZ the one about them removing the MSRP's from new cars. They only do this to lie to the buyer about the TRUE sticker price.

Now after reading the report, think about this: we print off reports like that and send them to government agencies that we know can do something about it.

Have you ever heard of the "Monroney Law"? It was past in 1958 to protect consumers from price deception. Just think your car dealer might be next! So keep your boots clean and you will have nothing to worry about.

Until I am dead or retire, all dirty car dealers should look out for me, and the work that I do with the Rip Off Report.

I urge you to not be too fast to judge www.ripoffreport.com.

I dealt with MCF back in Feb. of 1999. I was asked for $1,000 down and a trade of a 1986 Buick Regal Ltd. in nice condition, physically. I didn't have it all right then but by receipt of two checks to be cashed at different intervals in a month the deal would be written up. Ding ding, I got a 1997 Ford Escort used with a dent in the fender that was to have a service contract written up. That was to my knowledge. My trade wasn't running too well and was to be picked the following work week. The trade was never picked basically. The next Monday after the contract was written they tried to cash two $500 checks. Boing! They bounced and screwed up my account but not to my knowledge. Boing! A few weeks later the checks bounce again! Then I get a call from the bank. I told them the story, they didn't buy it. I still have to promissory receipt showing when the checks were supposed to be cashed. It took up until last year ( 2002 )to get past this. This completely destroyed my credit and my banking ( chex systems that is ). It has been rebuilt but now I'm getting it in the rear for all new credit that I receive.

back in early part of march 2004 i went to mel clayton ford to purchace a car and they tried selling me used car and they said it was a new car. well when we my husband myself and my son went in to do the finance part of the deal the finance manager was very rude and he said to the saleswoman give "them" back there money $1000.00
and tell them to go home i called the consumer affaires in mel clayton ford and i was so angry because the lady never called me back. nothing was ever done about the finance managers attitude or the way he treates people.

the made me feel as if i was worthless and that my money wasnt worth anything

i went to a different dealership and they took very good care of me and took half the amount of money down. so what im trying to say is that they didnt even give me a chance!!!!

Good for you in your picketing. I still think you are a victim of an illegal practice of "roping" and should be entitled to the original interest rate. I did something similar, but for anyone who is thinking of doing this, I have some suggestions.

1. DO NOT use the business name on your sign...don't set yourself up for a slander suit.

*instead..just put on your sign "I got ripped off here" or "I got screwed here-ask me how" or "I am a victim of this company" - just don't use a name.

2. Invite the media - they love a good argument, and make sure the dealer knows ahead that is what you plan to do.

3. Have a friend with you with a camcorder. If possible, have that friend pretend to be a media outlet...news reporter...anything like that...or at least have him their to document any harrasment you may get from the dealer and/or cops.

4. DO NOT get beligerant. Remain calm, collected, and do not swear. You don't want to give any excuse for disorderly conduct charges.

5. Make sure you are on public property...either the street in front or sidewalk. The dealer, nor the cops, can kick you off of public property.

6. Make sure you take a copy of the legal statutes regarding freedom of speech with you and any local ordinances about picketing.

7. One day prior, call the dealer and tell them you will be out front with your sign if you do not get immediate satisfaction and let them know what media outlets (TV, newspapers etc) you have invited to attend....make sure one of them is the one they do their advertising with.

8. If none of them attend, take your tape to them instead....make sure the dealer knows you are going to do that.

You have every right to picket, but you don't have the right to slander and make stuff up. Be factual when being interviewed or talking about it. Use phrases like "in my opinion" because you are entitled to your own opinion. Don't just say "they suck" say "in my opinion, they suck"...avoiding again any slanderous possibilities they could use against you.

If the cops do show up, that's why you have your buddy with the camera....make sure they also know they're being watched and taped. It's within your rights.

Most likely just the threat of doing all this will get you the appropriate answer. Do it...it works and worked for me!

Joe in your posting you state in number 7 to contact the media and inform them of your plans. Let me explain something to you about the media. I have been a Consumer Advocate on this web site for some time now. I have been doing what EVER I can to help expose deception in the auto industry for a long time now.

I have been in touch with KFYI 550 AM a Talk/News radio station Truing to get local MEDIA MUTTS behind the microphones to let Ripped off car buyers air their Bad experiences with car dealers.

Many at KFYI say that talking about auto dealer Rip Off's is not a debatable topic. Many have said It's not news a consumer can use. I say it's not a topic they want to expose because of BIG advertising money they get from car dealers. Can we say "Don't Bite the BIG HANDS that feed them"

Bruce Jacobs at KFYI 550 AM does not have the balls to expose car dealer scams, Nor does Joe Crummy.

I have seen local TV stations go after small mom and pop restaurants that do not have the big money to advertise on TV stations. They might go after the small places maybe because a customer reported to the Media that they saw a small bug on the floor. If the restaurant does not have big money to advertise on TV, they might soon be exposed.

Many car dealers know that they will not be exposed if they spend BIG money in the form of advertising. I have contacted 3TV on a few storys about car dealer scams and no luck getting them to help expose car dealer scams.

Scott said "It's not news they can use" Car buyer gets BENT OVER for a few GRAND and No media coverage. Small bug at a restaurant and WHAM TV cameras are in HIGH SPEED to the crime scene.

I am a car buyers Consumer Advocate on this web site and I have seen Arizona car dealers do just about everything to increase their profit. Trust me most car dealers don't care as to how you feel about them just as long as they sell you a car.

The big problem is that banks receive fraudulent credit application everyday and they are too stupid to spot them or the profit off of a car loan is more important to them that they just use blind employees to process the paper work.

We must bash the media that will not bring car dealer scams to the public and we must bash the car dealers and EXPOSE THE RAT BASTARDS!

The other problem is that most Attorney Generals have no clue as to what to look for when it comes to car dealer Rip Offs.

Do you think that a Real Estate office would let a Mortgage Broker play Spot delivery games with home buyers.

You know let the home buyer move in and then call them after they have settled in and tell them to come back in so the broker and "yank" down their pants and grab a bigger chunk of profit? I don't think so.

No TV station in this state has the balls to bend a few car dealers over and show consumers how dirty they can be. HUMMM Maybe it's because of all the big advertising $$$$$$ they all get from the car dealers that bend the consumers over.

Before or after a car buyer buys a car It would be nice if the media such as TV stations that have "On your Side programs" would do insider stories on the auto industry. They do stories on everything else like police, politics, crime, small restaurants, bad doctors and many other topics, why not new car dealers?

It seems that they, the media TV stations, Local Talk radio stations and newspapers do NOT want to let any of their reporters do any stories on new car dealers and the scams in the auto industry.

Let me tell you what I tried to get 3TV "The place with more stuff" in phoenix to air for AZ car buyers.

Before you start reading any more of this go get a nice warm cup of tea and think about what you are about to read.

At one time I sold cars for a living. I thought it might be a way to pay my bills. Went to a local Toyota dealer and drove them nuts until they hired me. Little by little they trained me the basics on selling cars. Much of the insider stuff the deceptive salesmen trained me what was going on to increase the bottom line.

Later I moved to a Nissan dealer and I thought selling Nissans would be much better. They played the same scams just with a different twist. After a few years I had to get out of the business because of what I seen the dealers were doing to car buyers.

During the last few months of selling cars I decided to EXPOSE what many dealers are doing to car buyers.

I went to 3TV and told them about a scam that car dealers were doing to car buyers. It is called CSI Diversion.

I went to MANY sales meetings and had to listen to the GM, GSM and their F&I people asking or requesting all info pertaining to what they called "HEAT DEALS"

In other words, they wanted to make sure that they had all info like customer's name, stock number of car they bought, VIN number, all of the UN HAPPY customer's contact info such as home, work and cell numbers.

They then would make sure that they placed FALSE phone numbers FALSE addresses on the RDR cards that went to the car maker. They did not want the car maker to be able to have any kind of contact with the you the UNHAPPY car buyers.

If a car dealer sees to it that the UNHAPPY car buyers never get any kind of CSI survey, they the car dealer will see their CSI scores will go up. Their main goal is to see to it that ONLY the HAPPY car buyers get CSI surveys in the mail. Many car dealers will also tell the car buyer this.

"Hey Mr and Mis car buyer if you can say you are happy on that CSI survey that you will soon be getting in the mail, we will give you a dinner at a local Steak house and a free tank of gas.

Just bring the CSI survey to the dealership when you get it in the mail. We will be happy to help you with the paper work and fill it out for you."

One local Nissan car dealer's GM got a bright idea that would help their CSI scores in a big way. He seen to it that his sales staff were putting their own home numbers and addresses on the car Buyer's RDR cards.

Then Nissan was unknowingly sending the CSI surveys to the car dealer's sales staff. I need not mention how the car dealer's sales staff filled out the surveys.

Now, I have a big problem with the above! Car maker has FALSE contact info like mailing address and all phone numbers. What if car maker wants to contact you, the car owner and say the following.

"Hey Mr. car owner we screwed up when we built your P.O.S. SUV and it has a DEFECTIVE ABS break unit on it. Your P.O.S. SUV also has a drivers side air bag that will pop in your face at anytime that may cause you to kill someone. We also found out that your seat belts aren't worth a shit. We really want to have a chance to repair your P.O.S. SUV NOW!

If they can't send the real new car owner a CSI survey, how can they make sure the REAL CAR OWNER gets a safety recall notice?

I told a local Phoenix TV station 3TV all about this kind of deception and after they researched the hole story and had many on video that were willing to TELL ALL the TV station tossed the story in the trash.

I even have some recorded conversations with station 3TV about some local car dealers diverting their C.S.I. Rich Skidmore and I were going to release the story. He told me they wanted to "sand big" the story until the "sweeps" then it seems to me their advertising department got a hold of the story and got the station manager to KILL THE STORY.

The Editor here at Rip Off Report wants me to help him set it up so you readers out there can hear some of the recordings that I made of their reporter and I having about the story.

I asked Rich Skidmore to give me a copy of the video that he made when he was still working at 3TV and he would not do it.

Their motto is "The Place with more stuff" I say their motto should read

"The place that hides more stuff"

I wonder why they did not want to inform the local car owners that they might not get any SAFETY RECALLS!

Maybe big car dealer advertising money was at stake! I am thinking real hard about letting you all hear some of the recorded conversations that I secretly recorded about AZ CSI diversion. If I file a Rip Off Report and post all the info that I have, you car buyers will LOVE to listen to the tapes.

Here in AZ I think the car buyer has no clue as to how deceptive a car dealer can be. Can't get any local media to talk about car dealers and their scams that cost car buyers BIG BUCKS!

Contact your car maker if you bought a new car and ask for a copy of the RDR card that was sent to them after you bought your new car. Good way to find out what address your dealer sent to your car maker. Maybe your dealer thinks you are an UNHAPPY CAR BUYER!

If you want to find out what I am saying about the media is true or not try this test.

No matter what state you live in, email all of the people below and ask them why they are NOT WILLING talk live on the air about scams in the auto industry.

Ask them is the advertising money more important then protecting their listeners form the scams in the auto industry?

After they email you back, post their response on this Rip Off Report. I do NOT care what state you live in, Email the below people at a local "TALK RADIO" station and ask why they will NOT TALK about car dealer scams LIVE on the air.

It sure seems to me that protecting car buyers is NOT a concern of the main stream media. That being TALK RADIO, NEWSPAPERS and TV stations.
They are willing to chat the good and bad about the President of the United States, why not the good and bad of new car dealers?

Put the below people to the test, email them! Post their response on this Rip Off Report!

barryyoung@kfyi.com
brucejacobs@kfyi.com
joecrummey@clearchannel.com
askjan@clearchannel.com

Ask yourself these questions:
1. When can you remember the last time your local newspaper ever did a story on a new car dealership as to how they were scamming new car buyers?

2. When was the last time you ever heard a talk radio station let a caller talk LIVE on the air about how a car dealer ripped them off?

3. After many at a local Buick dealer started picketing because the Hispanics were reporting that they were treated in a deceptive way, did any local media slide over there with cameras? NO!

Want to put a talk radio station to the test? Go to the below URL and find a talk radio station in your state and call them up. Find out if what I say is true. Go ahead, make my day!

When you go to this below URL there are MANY pages of talk radio stations in all 50 states. There are 20 stations listed on each page. Put any of them to the test. Call one of them up when they have open topic and try to see if their call screener will let you get to chat with the show host about how a car dealer ripped you off.

http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/finder?format=tal&s=R&sr=Y

3. When was the last time you watched a TV station "On your side reporter" do an in-depth story on how finance people at NEW CAR dealers are scamming new car buyers?

Do you think your local TV station would ever do a story on the car buyer in this Rip Off Report below? Go look at the 3 pic's posted in this below Rip off Report. Read this car buyer's Report Real good.

www.badbusinessbureau.com/reports/ripoff52158.htm

4. When was the last time you got to read a "Letter to the editor" about how a car buyer got bent over in a new car dealer scam?

Would you like to put a newspaper to the test? If so go to the below URL and find a newspaper in your state and locate the "Letters to the Editor" section and email them. Post their reply on this Rip Off Report!

www.onlinenewspapers.com/usstate/usatable.htm

5. Do you think a newspaper, talk radio station or a local TV station would ever do a story on any of the below URL's?
I think NOT!

Does your state have a "ASS KICKING AG's Office like New York has? I bet NOT!

www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2001/dec/dec13b_01.html www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2001/may/may30b_01.html www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2002/apr/apr19b_02.html www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2002/jan/jan14b_02.html www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2000/oct/oct12a_00.html www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2001/aug/aug09a_01.html www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2003/mar/mar12b_03.html www.oag.state.ny.us/press/1999/sep/sep30e_99.html www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2003/mar/mar18b_03.html

Put any of the above media to the test and find out if what I am saying to you is true! Then post their replies on this Rip Off Report!

I feel that newspapers, Talk radio and many TV stations have this unspoken rule to all reporters. "Do not even think of messing with our big money makers"

By the way "Anonymous" tell your Attorney to go read this Rip Off Report real good. Make sure he or she reads the park about kicking the Buyer's trade in the fourth contract eh dealer had the buyer sign. make sure he or she looks at all photos in this report.

Do you think this car buyer had to sit on a BIG ONE? I think so!

www.badbusinessbureau.com/reports/ripoff52158.htm

I also wonder why is it that banks are willing to do business with car dealers that are willing to submit fraudulent documents for loan approvals. Just think about this also. Most car dealers have a "documentation fee" They charge you a fee sometimes as much as $350 bucks to do all of the paper work. What kind of paper work have you paid for?

All of the "Media Mutts" on the morning shows that play with their papers and smile at each other make me sick! They try to act like they are special and needed. Yes they are needed for "Window Dressing" The Blond headed bim bo;s that are used as "window Dressing" makes me sick. Why not hire NON Bim Bo's that know what the hell they are talking about

No "Media Mutt" that I know has a clue as to what's really going on. They are all just used as "Window Dressing" to keep you tuned in so you will watch all of the infomercial's and commercials they want you to watch. Many of their infomercial's and commercials have Rip Off Reports. If not for infomercial's and commercials the Media Mutts would not have jobs.

Hey all of you in the Media, Why not read the Rip Off Reports BEFORE you take in advertising money. less consumers would get ripped off if you did your research first! I know, protecting consumers is not your first priorty. Advertising money is first on your list!

Stick...I gotta say you have a pretty good point there.

My picketing like I mentioned worked, but I didn't have to go that far...only threaten to do it. Maybe telling them that you will place fliers about them on cars at local events or stadiums will do the trick. They can't prevent that too easily.

Here's another idea....rent a booth at a local flea market or a tent at a local fair (of course you'll have to lie to them as to what you're going to do at that booth) and then either along with some "good cause" have some great "info" about this local dealer any any video you can scrape up. Also have some information about common car dealer scams to pass out.

You probably will get the boot after a short time at either one...but hell...you'll get some good reaction while you're there. DON'T tell any dealer you're going to do this...just do it if they won't give you satisfaction. At the very least, you'll get piece of mind knowing they will surely hear about what you did. You can tell them you're going to repeat that again randomly (so as to not allow them the chance to prevent you by bribing whomever is in charge of the rentals) also if they still don't cave in.

Anyway...have fun getting revenge. I also suggest going on a boook site like Amazon website and looking up some good books by George Hayduke for great revenge tactics.

A previous respondent proffered some sound advise in regards to picketing. Yes, you can make yourself open to a slander lawsuit if you make a declarative statement such as - "Anytown Ford Ripped Me Off." An ambiguous sign such as "This Company Ripped Me Off" can avoid a slander charge in most cases, but sometimes you can still be held liable if you are making such a statement while standing right in front of the establishment in question.
To make sure that you are not committing a slanderous act, it is wise to not make your statement a definitive one. In other words, instead of saying "Anytown Ford Ripped Me Off," it is better to say "In My Opinion Anytown Ford Ripped Me Off." In the latter case, you are merely offering your opinion and not making a declaratory statement. You will still get your point across and, as others have mentioned, will likely see a quick resolution. Nothing will hurt their business more than someone standing along the road near their lot with prospective customers reading your sign.

Thanks to the person who brought up the great point about media consumer groups that will not "bite the hand that feeds them" and thus will not go after a dealership that has wronged a customer. These folks do good work, but its a shame that they will bypass a seedy company just because they put big $$ into advertising.