Chem-Dry (Harris Research Rip off)

Just a small note regarding your editorial "according to industry magazines, carpet manufactures recommend the best cleaning process for your carpet is Steam Cleaning" comment.

Please note that most major carpet manufacturers have significant financial interests in "steam cleaning" companies. While they APPROVE most 'competitive' methods (like Chem-Drys Hot Carbonated (water) Extraction) they RECOMMEND the specific method and sometimes the actual company they directly profit from.

Side note: "Steam Cleaning" is a misnomer - Hot Water Extraction as been ruled the legitimate legal term for that method. NO steam is employed in the cleaning system and therefore not legally truthful to advertise as such.

My sister had a Chem Dry franchise. She came to my house and did my carpets with her "magic carbonation" process. I didn't see any difference, so I went out and rented a Rug Doctor steam machine, and was much happier with the results!

As a consumer, I was unimpressed by the service that was provided by the local Chem-Dry franchise. I spent over $550 for cleaning and sanitizing of around 1100sf of carpet. The crew used a device which looked a bit like a floor sander but which used what looked like terry cloth pads on it. They did an OK job of lifting the pile with carpet rakes and were I was shocked that they were done in under 2 hours. They went around and opened all of the blinds in order to give the carpet a brighter appearance.

Two days later, my dog vomited on the carpet. I cleaned it as best I could then ran out and purchased a Bissell Pro-heat home carpet cleaner.
I cleaned the spot using just hot water and could not believe how much cleaner this area was than the rest of the carpet. The machine cost me around $230. I would not recommend the Chem Dry to anyone.

I am a former manager of an "independantly owned and operated" Chem-Dry franchise. I can truthfully say I was never "brain-washed" or told to "slam" every steam cleaner out there. Each franchise is in control of their own marketing campaign, within certain guidelines set up by Harris Research, the franchisor. I could opt to take an aggressive approach to the competitors using steam cleaning(hot water extraction) or not. As a matter of fact, everytime I turn on the radio or tv, I hear numerous companies taking that approach on a daily basis.

In response to the statement, "I have
never seen berbour carpets, comercial carpets & some colored carpets clean this bright before. EVER!", I would say that berbour does clean better with the hot carbonated cleaning process(offered by Chem-Dry) than the bonnet method.

In my oppinion his statement is somewhat misleading. It is akin to using a phillips head screw driver on a straight slotted screw. What works in one situation may not work in another. In short, I beleive the Chem-Dry process offers the right tools for any given carpet cleaning need. It just requires the technician to make the right assesment.

I have been in the industry for 10 years, and experimented with many methods of cleaning carpet. To me, the benefits of a healthier carpet cleaning far outweigh any arguments of steam cleaning proponnets.

I no longer work for Chem-Dry, but if Harris Research would loan me the equipment, I would be more than happy to challenge the rug doctor user or the $200 home machine in a side-by-side comparison cleaning. :)

As far as pricing goes, we all like it cheaper, but you also get what you pay for.
My advice is to be weary of the spin. The only way to know the truth is to try both and see.

the only reason chem dry might be 10x bigger than steemer is b/c chem dry is NOT territorial. with steemer you buy the county or counties you want,and you are the only steemer working there..with chem dry every one on my street can have a chem dry.you might have more franchises but steemer does about 265$ million a year and has been around since the 40s. as far as your method,chem dry does use moisture but then use a cotton bonnet to absorb the moisture..try cleaning your rugs with club soda and a clean white towel see how it comes out.thats about how chem dry does it. dont knock hot water extraction when shaw industries says to use it. all so called dry cleaning companies are rip offs.

I am a employee of a Chem Dry company in Ilinois.
I have gone through the training program and been cleaning for some time now, I have found Chem Dry to be much more logical and less damaging than forcing 20 gallons of water along with sanitizers and detergents to prevent the mold that would would form otherwise, into the carpet of a house. Chem Dry's solution never goes past the backing of the carpet and contains NO detergents or soaps.
I would sell Chem Dry to my own family with no regrets and would have Chem Dry clean my own carpets even if I was wrongfully terminated and despised the company. In closing I believe in the
Chem Dry system fully and if anyone would like more information on this cleaning system I urge you to consult Harris or myself. Thank You for listening to my rebuttal.

As a 18 year vet in the cleaning industry, I can tell you that HWE (hot water extraction) is the prefered method by many fiber mills and manufacturers. They DO NOT have any association or "profit" from business owners using the truck mounted system. At least they haven't contacted me yet in my 18 years.

I am also a proud registrant with the IICRC. Look it up. www.iicrc.org

It is the industry's certifying body...world wide!

They set the standards in the textile cleaning, hard surface cleaning (tile, marble) and the restoration industry too. I am also certified as a Master Textile Restorer.

Chem-Dry has it's place in this business. It's great for commercial level-loop yarns. This method is also excellent for regular maintenance. However, residential 'type' plush (cut pile) carpet that has not been cleaned in some time, requires a more thorough cleaning throughout the entire yarn. All of us 'professional carpet cleaners' should already know that carpet fibers are created to 'hide' dirt! When you actually see soiled carpeting.....it's beyond regular maintenance. Ask a homeowner if he/she regularly maintains their carpeting. Most will say every 1 1/2 to 2 years, which technically speaking, is to late. Soil damages carpet 'plastic' fibers in which cannot be corrected.

Hot water extraction is very similar to washing the shampoo out of your hair rather than (chem-dry) applying shampoo and then towel drying it off. Makes sense right?

Thank you.

Ernie - the 18 year vet in the industry - epitomizes the common misconceptions held by the HWE (Steam Cleaning) community toward the ChemDry process. There is no similarity between towelling shampoo off your hair and the “Hot Carbonated Extraction” process ChemDry uses. Highly carbonated, effervescent water contains no soaps, detergents, surfactants, enzymes, phosphates, perfumes or other harmful compounds. …And any seasoned homemaker, waitress or stewardess will tell you when you have a spill, applying club soda (carbonated water) and blotting is very safe and effective.

Now imagine that same safe, effervescent reaction but with 10X more fizzing bubble power, heated to 180+ degrees, applied deep into your carpets with an industry leading RX20 modified rotary extraction tool. Not relying solely on the powerful lifting action of carbonation and the amplified extraction of the powerhead, the process then follows up with a padding of the carpet using soft, synthetic, highly absorbent pads rotated slowly over the carpet under the weight of a 80lb floor machine to absorb any latent moisture and emulsified soils, leaving the carpet dry and ready for use in about 1 hour.

…Doesn't exactly match with the hair towelling analogy, does it.

ChemDry operators certainly have the tools and training necessary to clean all types of carpet, upholstery and area rugs with any degrees of soiling.

As for the IICRC - Ernie is correct in stating they set the standards for the cleaning and restoration industry and many ChemDry franchises are IICRC trained and certified member (as well as CRI certified, ASCII certified and the like). In fact several ChemDry franchisees are IICRC certified instructors who travel throughout North America every month, training and administering examinations to carpet cleaners and restoration contractor of all methods.

I believe there is room in the industry all true carpet care “professionals” and as such we should spend far less time and effort disputing the merits of our individual processes and far more time rooting out the poorly trained, unscrupulous, fly-by-night, bait-n-switch operators of any method, who give entire industry a bad name.

I have 28 years of experiance cleaning carpet. cleaning carpet is not as complicated as some would think, it only takes some common sense and a open ear for learning. The reason that hot water extraction has a bad rap is for the following reasons. The tech has no knowledge of the equipment that he, or she is using, does not understand the chemistry invovled in cleaning carpet, etc. If done correctly hot water extraction far exceeds all other cleaning methods hands down. #1 I do not run chemicals through my unit because of scale build up. Damaging many components of my unit. running chemicals through your unit does not leave the carpet residue free. #2 THIS IS VERY COMMON! Using the wrong cleaning agents will cause the best of the truck mounts to MALFUNTION. When you use a foaming type cleaning agent it will cause vacume loss and WILL NOT WORK PROPERLY! cleaning carpet does not require brut force as some of you may think. turn your water pressure, and heat down and let the chemistry do the work, not the machine. There is no way that I would even consider using a type of bonnet system on my customers carpet. It only cleans the top of the fibers THATS IT! there is no heat to remove sugar that causes reapearing spots etc. Carpet is like your clothes. If you scrub the hell out of it, it doesn't look new anymore. "EXAMPLE" If you have a stain on a shirt, apply spotter, scrub, and rinse. When it dries you have a permanant scrub mark. If you have a hard bristle brush beating down on stain,. when it dries guess what? no permanent scrub mark! I help a friend for about a week using Chem dry, I could hardly sleep at night. It did not meet up to my standards. As for a closing statement I may have some bragging rights to. I have cleaned after many companies such as Coit, Blackmon Mooring, Stanly Steemer, Chemdry, I'm not going to mention Sears, and Kiwi of course,etc., AND PUT THEM TO SHAME! OOOOORA!

I would like to comment on a few past rebuttals about the Chemdry system. There have been many cleaning techs that have been cleaning carpets for many years, and did not learn as much as they thought they did, I am guilty of this myself. Being in this industry, you never stop learning. I have been doing this for over 28 years, and it took me at least 10 years to figure it out. I even had a good friend of mine on NATIONAL TV stating that you cannot use hot water extration on berber. Sorry Jimmy. Back in 12 / 2003 Gary McDonald said that he has never seen berber cleaned with the Chemdry method look so clean and bright. I used to work for Chemdry, I understand the Chemdry system. On the other hand Gary has never met a cleaner Like me. Chem dry has a method that stays the same for all cleaning techs. In order to understand the carpet cleaning industry, you have bounce around through several companies, and experiement with different techniques. Here is another rebuttal: Matt Mchenry, says he has he has gone through the program, and has been cleaning for some time now (HOW LONG?) Is this the only method he has used? We have to understand that you do not have to use force to clean a carpet. With a truck mount unit, and if the chemistry is right, you can clean it with little effort, do an excellant job, and not soak the backing of the carpet. With all of this knowledge of cleaning carpet, I could buy a $400.00 buffer and duplicate the Chemdry method. But instead I went mad and crazy and purchased a $10,000 truck mount. I want the public to under stand that I am not trying to slam Chemdry, Gary Mcdonald, or Matt Mchenry. I just want them to know that if your going to run with the big dogs, you have to get off the porch.

As with many of the others responding on this site, I too have spent a number of years in the carpet cleaning industry and hold several IICRC certifications. As the truly educated people in this industry know, there is not a single method that is appropriate in ALL situations. For each job, several factors have to be taken into account such as type of fiber, construction of the carpet, amount of soiling, and, of course, accessibility of the job(it's a little tough to use a truck mount system on the 30th floor of a building).

To the consumers reading this report, I highly recommend using only IICRC trained individuals. These people have received exposure and training on several methods of cleaning. Of course, that doesn't mean that every company offers more than one type of cleaning. My old company offered several methods including truck mounted hot water extraction, portable extraction, bonnet cleaning, and a limited amount of dry vac cleaning (for those miserable sisal rugs). For the most part though, a company that uses a truck-mounted hot water extraction system (aka steam cleaning) with properly trained and experienced technicians is going to give the best results on residential carpet. If you don't believe me, call or check the websites of any of the major carpet manufacturers. Check with the IICRC to see who in your area has received the appropriate training. I don't think that it has been stressed enough about the importance of using a highly trained and experienced technician. A skilled tech could give much better results using the worst system than an unknowlegible tech using the best system.

As for Chem-Dry, they do have their place in the market(as much as I do hate to admit it). They can do a reasonable job in a maintenance cleaning situation but fall short in restorative cleaning (meaning if you have gone a year or longer since your last cleaning). If a consumer consistently vacuums their carpet (1-2 times each week) and doesn't experience heavy soiling, alternating between Chem-Dry and a solid truck mounted hot-water extraction company every 6 months would provide acceptable results. Be aware that Chem-Dry, because it lacks the true flushing action, is not able to give optimal results on heavily soiled carpet also known as a restorative cleaning.

Have a store. The Chem-Dry guys came out to clean the carpet. By the time they were done it looked like crap. They came out three more times. Still looked like crap. They sent out a guy with a truck mounted steam unit. That solved the problem. Fifth time's the charm

Jashua, This is a very interesting post that you have made. You stated that you have been in the carpet cleaning industry for a number of years. (How Long?) You have seen me post mine with no shame. I would like to inform the public that I was around before the truck mount, and the IICRC were invented (29 years now?) The IICRC is a good organization to belong to if you are a greenhorn. As I stated before in a early post, I spent 10 years of my time before I figured it out. It is not so much the method you use, It's the chemistry. I am from the old veterans. We clean things most certifide techs can't pronounce. Try going to the middle east were they make rugs, and ask if they are certified. They will probably put you against the wall. Also in your post, you were talking about 30 flight up? in most cases thats only 300 hundred ft plus. Thats not bad, side ways, or up. Me and another very experienced freind of mine, went 31 flights from the convention center, to the top of Hyatt Houston, and cleaned the Spindletop Resteraunt. The best thing about it was the GRAVITY! It was no big deal. Some of the best cleaners are not with the IICRC, so I suggest that you wait another 15 years for us veterans to die out before making a comment. I have been doing this so long, that I do not advertise at all! Me and my long time collegues spend alot of our time fixing what a certified techs screwed up. A tech can be certified in a very short period of time (If he has the money.)Can he match 29 years of experience? "I don't think so." You have to remember in your travales that we never stop learning, and experience can not be matched by any one. So before you swing your sword, you better know wich dragon you are fighting. As for a closing statment. I am a chess player, and a billiard player. I saw a small interesting sign in the back of a St. Louis pool hall, stating "THIS IS WHERE THE BEST COME TO GET BEAT!" And you can bet your ass this was not a joke!

Cory, I know you used Chem dry and I feel your pain, And send my condolences. I said it, and I will say it again. The hot water extraction method far exceeds dry cleaning, I do not like Coit corporate and thier methods, and I do not recomend. But if you did call the Coit franchise in San Antonio, ran by K.C. O'hanlin I will recomend him. He is one of the very few that knows his S*it! You stand a better chance of winning the lottery, as to find someone with his experience.

You obviously have experience and knowledge in the industry, and with that many years of outperforming other cleaners you must, like I, have built a very large, highly reputable cleaning firm.

In my 15+ years in this industry I have used, witnessed, demoed and commissioned side-by-side testing of nearly every recognized method and product available in the carpet cleaning industry. I have also corrected poor workmanship done by every method imaginable …including companies offering my method. Over the years I have compiled a stockpile of over 3000 testimonials from our loyal residential, commercial, institutional and municipal government clientele attesting to the fact that we have outperformed their previous firms results and have exceeded their expectations.

You and I obviously know that having the dedication, knowledge and care to use the proper tools and products for the job at hand are the REAL keys to cleaning success… I just happen to use the ChemDry method to accomplish that within my firm.

Out of my 29 years of experience, I have witnessed hundreds of cleaners trying to show me their techniques in cleaning carpets. This is how I learned. I have cleaned after many cleaners using the bonnet systems such as Chemdry.

I don't try to test my wits against hundreds of inexperienced cleaners here in the Houston area. Because I know less than 10 That know what they are doing. Have you tested your results against a real eperienced cleaner? does that pad remove dirt from the bottom of the carpet? If it does. Please educate me. I should not have to tell You, that large firms do not hire techs like me anymore. They hire cheap labor trainees with no bad habits.

There are many inexperienced cleaners around the USA, and Canada. Did you base your tests againts these guys? and I'm not talking about the newly IICRC certified guys that used to work at BurgerKing six months ago.

to start with steam cleaning method thoughts.
if for some reason you don't get all of your product
out of a carpet and on a day with high humidity
the carpet gets damp than dries you will more than likely see soap stains right

with the chem_dry method it is best not to get
all of the product out of the carpet for on a humid day the carbonated soultion starts to work
and bring drit to the surface of the rug to be vaccumed up.
i ask everyone would you want to see a soap stain
or be able to vacume up any dirt that may have got on your rug after the last cleaning ???

Lester, With all your experience of buffing carpet with carbonated water, and leaving dirt behind to be vacumed up, you leave me with a troubled mind. If you have followed my previous posts. You would understand that cleaning is more chemistry than brut force. And for all of you Rambo carpet cleaners out there, that are buffing the carpet into submission. And truck mount techs running around with 900 psi, and 250 deg. heat, this is not carpet cleaning. If I was to let a tech do that to my carpet, I would strongly consider an insurance claim. Oh, by the way Les, the words soap, and shampoo, are like four letter words to me. I use non residue cleaning agents when cleaning carpet. I Thank all of you for this educational moment.

I live in Houston. From Brownsville Tx., to Miami Fl. We grow mold with no problem. Especially New Orleans. yes, I'm sorry to say that there are a very few that mold will severly affect. And these people should not be living along the gulf coast. The Clorox company, makers of Tilex has sent out a "MOLD DETECTOR KIT". It is a Q tip type of gadget, rubbing it agaist an affected area, and breaking the other end releasing the chemical will give you the results. My wife aquired one of these devices taunting me to run too the bathroom to test this ground breaking marvel. Me being a skeptic, and looking through the B.S. I explained to her we live in houston, mold grows on everything. to prove my point, the incriminating device never made it to the bath. I put it in my ear, and activated it. I was is shock, I had mold growing in my ear! O K. Let's cut through the crap. If you live along the gulf coast. Just rub it on anything in your house, when it turns positive. RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!

In regards to the Chen Dry cleaning process. There are opinions tossed around loosely about the effectiveness of their cleaning process and there will be for a long time to come.

What can not be disputed due to actual testing done by the Carpet and Rug Institute and major carpet mills as well as manufacturers of cleaning agents is the following:

1) Hot carbonation does nothing to enhance cleaning effectiveness. It merely makes the process patentable. Chem Dry's patent on their hot carbonation cleaning agents has expired, opening it up for anyone to use. Why then if it is so effective, as C.D. claims has the industry not made a shift in that direction?
In-fact, Chem-Dry, who for years bashed the effectiveness of HWE (hot water extraction) has now adopted that method as their prefered method. The equipment they use to do that is a modified Hydra Master Max 450 truckmount and an RX-20 rotary extractor. This is the same equipment that has benn used by HWE carpet cleaners for years.

2)The bonnet cleaning method in use by most Chem-Dry franchises has been scientifically proven to cause damage to carpet fibers. In-fact, the process causes so much damage and fiber distortion, that most carpet mills will not back the fiber retention warranty on a carpet once it has been bonnet cleaned by anyone.

3) Chem Dry has for years marketed their cleaning by making un-proven or false claims about other methods. Yet, they have never exposed their cleaning practices to independent, third party evaluations. Basically, their claims are at the very least unfounded, at most deceptive.

I'm not entirely sure where Craig got his “facts” from but if for nothing more than sh#ts'n'giggles I'll got through his points below and highlight where his version of “Factual Information” and the actual “truth” tend to part company.

1. “Chem-Dry's patent on their hot carbonation cleaning agents has expired”

The Chem-Dry (Harris Research) patents on their original Cold Carbonated cleaning method from the 1970's did expire in the late 1990's. Long before those patents expired their advancements in chemistry and technology allowed for heat and carbonation to be present at the same time and then further coupled with employment of the Bernoulli Principle they were able to greatly enhance their effervescent solutions kinetic energy. So, the truth is… that Harris Research still actively holds exclusive patents on the use of “Hot Carbonating Extraction Cleaning”.

2. “In-fact(???) Chem-Dry, who for years bashed the effectiveness of HWE (hot water extraction) has now adopted that method as their preferred method”
Don't flatter yourself because Chem-Dry does not perform HWE. The truth is… for the PAST 11 YEARS they have provided “Hot Carbonating Extraction.” This approach uses the effervescent Natural solution heated to 180+ degrees, applied deep into the carpets with an industry leading RX20 modified rotary extraction tool, followed up with a padding of the carpet using soft, synthetic, highly absorbent pads rotated slowly over the carpet to absorb any latent moisture and emulsified soils, so as to leave the carpet dry and ready for use in about 1 hour.

The use of heavily modified and customized in-truck extraction equipment has recently been added as an option for Chem-Dry operators to compliment the current domain of equipment but the truth is… ALL equipment configurations still employ the “Hot Carbonating Extraction” methodologies as noted above.

3. “The bonnet cleaning method in use by most Chem-Dry franchises…”
Regardless of the strength or limitation of “bonnet” cleaning, the Chem-Dry process has never been classed as a “Bonnet” cleaning method by any of the mills even in it's previous “Cold Carbonated” generation. Harris Research has always been approved by and held letters of endorsement from the major carpet mills, CRI and other sources over their 25+ years in the industry.

In fact the Celanese Corp, one of the largest manufacturer of acetate and polyester staple and filament fibres use in carpet construction publish a consumer guide available from leading carpet stores called “The Right Way To Clean & Maintain Carpets.” Curiously it lists “Carbonation Cleaning” as the preferred method followed by HWE, with “Bonnet” cleaning as the least preferred …hmmm??

4. “Yet, they have never exposed their cleaning practices to independent, third party evaluations.”
Again this “Fact” is completely false. To be brief and not list ALL the independent, 3rd party testing both in North America and international that the Chem-Dry process has undergone over the past 25+ year a few key examples would include the following:

BCTC CAMRASO Laboratories performed independent testing in the late 1990's to verify the claims regarding; 1-2 hour drying times, carpets cleaned by Chem-Dry stay cleaner longer than new carpets, carpets texture is not affected by Chem-Dry cleaning and that Chem-Drys' patented co-applied protection offers carpet fibres significant soil and stain resistance. All claims were found to be completely “Truthful”

The Industrial Research Centre of Quebec (CRIQ) performed independent test on all major carpet cleaning methods and found “According to a comparative study done by the CRIQ the most efficient system among all others is the Chem-Dry system. The distinguishable differences include its deep cleaning ability, its resistance to bacterial proliferation, its lack of sticky residues, the odourless formulation, and outstanding stain removal.”

I would be naive to think I would in any way change the opinions of the HWE operators who've posted herein but hopefully I've helped elucidate whose “claims are at the very least unfounded, at most deceptive” on this message board.

John, Please correct me if I'm not understanding your last post, The way I see it, you have not been a cleaner very long. I checked out the CRIQ, and did not find the facts that you were posting. Many people such as you, and the alledged CRIQ, may have based your opinons against many of the "not so" experienced HWE techs that infest this industry. If you think that the Perrier system is the cat's meow, it should be listed with Ripley's "BELIEVE IT OR NOT". As for me, I have been a cleaner going on 30 years. I don't play with buffers, and I don't practice. You have to remember, cleaning is chemistry, not brut force. Yes, I have used the bonnet system, And the Perrier system as well. I could not sleep at night! Also, FYI, I don't don't sludge the customers carpet. John, years ago, I thought I Knew everything. I walked in your shoes, But your footsteps are far behind mine!

Well, It's been about 15 years sense I tried the Perrier system, and at that time it sucked. I couldn't sleep at night.

But TOODAAAY, I saw it in action again. I was driving past a very well known, and large furniture store in Webster texas, and noticed two vans from different franchises parked outside. As well known as the store is, I could not believe that they were having their carpet cleaned that way. On the side of their vans I noticed a part of a slogan "SUPERIOR CLEANING".

I just snickered to myself and went into the store to check out this great cleaning method. I was watching these guys do this job. At that moment, several things were going through my mind.

Serious training could not even help these guys, with that system. The areas that they already cleaned looked like crap. There were stained areas that I could have easily removed, blotchy areas from improper spot removal, swiral marks everywhere, and distorted carpet fiber, from buffing the hell out of it.

When it comes to curiosity, it is human nature for man kind to check out disaster events. Such as fires, storms, crashes, etc. But at least in this case no one was hurt. Just the carpet. Feeling pity for all parties involved in todays carnage. I felt better when I left the store.

THANK Y'ALLL FOR THIS EDUCATIONAL MOMENT!

I am an owner of a mid-sized carpet cleaning and water remediation company.

We are one of the more expensive, higher end service providers in our area.

The reason I am placing my 2 cents in this report is simple - I am, as well as every other HWE (hot water extraction aka steam cleaning for you consumers reading this) firm on the planet, are completely tired of seeing your claims of HWE being unsafe.

We all know its not.

Only if HWE is performed very incorrectly, severe overwetting and under-extraction, is your method "safer" than HWE.

And in that instance, not cleaning the carpets is safer too - right?

Just as your franchisees can claim dry cleaning safer than HWE, one could similarly claim not cleaning the carpets at all vs. chem dry cleaning is a safer alternative, as your truck could blow up and burn a house down....right.

It is a possibility, and therefore not cleaning carpets is a safer alternative to chem dry.

Sounds ridiculous - but that is what we as HWE firms deal with by most dry cleaning ads and their references against HWE as a safer method.

After reading through all of the original accusations, statements, opinions, and rebuttals, I can only see pro Chem-dry folk restating their pitches less any facts to back them.

In fact, quite a few of your responses are so outrageous they do in fact discredit you folks, assisting the HWE side of the argument, but we'll get to that a bit later.

I see stated by pro chem dry comments:

"We are consistently ranked #1 overall and for our systems by the likes of Entrepreneur Magazine, Income Opportunities, etc. Our most recent ranking was again #1 of all carpet and upholstery cleaning companies and 32nd overall of all organizations regardless of industry. Stanley Steamer was nowhere near."

Well that is great - you generate revenue, that does not reflect how well your individual franchisee are doing, McDonalds leads the planet in fast food, but the ones making the burgers aren't doing quite as well.

In addition, that has no direct reflection on the quality of cleaning service chem-dry provides to the public.

The original complainant made the following statements:

"I was also told how to inform the customer how bad Steam Cleaning was and how to slam every steam cleaner out there."

I failed to see any direct response to that from anyone other than a franchisee. And you can argue "not true" until you are blue in the face, when 8 of 10 dry cleaning ads state things such as "the safer alternative" etc etc, avoid mold causing hwe cleaning, and we all know its going on, and no effort made by corporate to stop it are in place, it is in itself condoning it.

"The rumor is also that they will sooner or later start taking a percentage of what you earn."

No response to that

"They can over sell your franchise area, NO LEGAL RECORSE."

No, response to that one either.

"Example you can buy a quart of defoamer at any janitorial supply for $7.00 & they charge you $42.00 for the same product with their label on the same bottle."

Again, no response - and any response you give, to anyone in the industry, will know is ridiculous, because defoamer at $42.00 a bottle...? Maybe that is why you folks lead the industry in revenues generated.

PSSSST - hey stanley - gouge your franchisee's, be number one next year.

In one of the earlier rebuttals, a pro chem dry response states:

"Please note that most major carpet manufacturers have significant financial interests in "steam cleaning" companies. While they APPROVE most 'competitive' methods (like Chem-Drys Hot Carbonated (water) Extraction) they RECOMMEND the specific method and sometimes the actual company they directly profit from."

Are you serious....?

OK - who (exactly who) are these carpet manufacturers with financial interests in the HWE industry, and how are they in bed together - lets get specific.

And who are those on the receiving ends of those monies, again, please be specific.

Give me facts - prove your statement.

Step outside the argument, look at that statement, and ask yourself, do you really think you are helping your argument?

I mean, you folks make some pretty bold statements about the HWE process, but this tops them all.

Comments like that actually support our arguments, outlandish, unfounded comments such as this diminish any shred of credibility you hope to have in your entire HWE vs. Dry cleaning methods argument/s.

And also - I'd LOVE to see a link to a carpet manufacturer that actually calls out "Chem-Drys Hot Carbonated (water) Extraction" - verbatim - as a recommended process - pleeeease send me just one link, I mean pleeeeeease. And if you have it - I'd like to then see they are OK with the bonnet portion of the process - I have never in 20 years heard of ANY manufacturer of residential carpeting OK with a bonnet on their carpet - I have seen the opposite however, whereby warranty is void in that situation.

Another pro chem dry respondent writes:

"I have found Chem Dry to be much more logical and less damaging than forcing 20 gallons of water along with sanitizers and detergents to prevent the mold that would form otherwise, into the carpet of a house."

Firstly, in an average sized 4-5 rm job, I don't use 20 gallons of water. I'll go through about 50-60, and if I am running a rotary tool such as the rotovac, probably more to the tune of 70-80 gallons. But see.... here is the thing - I have a machine with a roots 59 blower, and I can extract it properly, and so, that the carpets are dry within 3-4 hours, they are cleaned deeper, and because we extract with a rinse, are not left with any "residues" you folks chant about regularly.

Its not how much water you use, it's how much of what you use do you get out.

And in regards to the latter part of that statement....."to prevent the mold that would form otherwise"

OK, so let me get THIS one straight, you folks actually believe that steam cleaning will form mold..... every time, no matter what, if a customer has their carpets steam cleaned, they will end up with mold. WOW..... I am speechless.

Yet another comment, that to anyone with half a brain, will further discredit your claims of a better, safer way to clean carpets.

Thanks for your helping our argument.

Which brings me full circle to the next comment in regards to "training" - which the above is an area maybe you folks at Chem Dry should take a real close look at in regards to the "training" your franchisee's receive.

Because honestly - if this is indicative of your average franchisee - your training is not so state of the art.

Pro Chem dry respondents also stated:

"I'm sure that they (reference to Stanley Steemer) are proud of their training, but ours is state of the art. Our Franchisees are required to go through an intensive five day program at our headquarters in Logan, Utah."

Whoa..... 5 whole days, I hope they get a vacation between day 3 and 4.

Maybe it should be 6, and you could then train your franchisee's not to put their foot in their mouths with statements such as HWE cleaning will form mold.

I won't put a tech in the field until they have been under a master tech here for a full month.

And that is after certification.

Also stated:

"and we are the first carpet and upholstery cleaning company with a comprehensive Indoor Air Quality Training Program."

If you are going down the path of air duct cleaning, here we go again, the old create a problem that doesn't exist to create more work we'll procure via scare tactics.....kind of how the whole dry cleaning thing has been going along so far so this should be a relatively easy addition of services for you folks.

Anyone there happen to read the 16 page EPA report in regard to air duct cleaning's effect on indoor air quality?

The one where they do NOT recommend cleaning unless very specific circumstances are present?

We did, and it's why we won't provide the service.

Wait a minute, maybe the EPA is financially tied to those that benefit by the demise of air duct cleaning firms and equipment manufacturers, a situation akin to the carpet manufacturers being financially tied into the hot water cleaning industry........

Anyone interested in reading the report:

http://www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/airduct.html

And in closing -

I read a post:

"I believe there is room in the industry all true carpet care ?professionals? and as such we should spend far less time and effort disputing the merits of our individual processes and far more time rooting out the poorly trained, unscrupulous, fly-by-night, bait-n-switch operators of any method, who give entire industry a bad name.

John - Waterloo, Ontario"

Great, now if chem dry and their franchisee's practiced what John just preached, this post would probably be 4" long instead of 4' long.

And believe it or not - I AGREE

Though I have sounded off against Chem Dry in this response - it is simply because they themselves and their respective dry cleaning brothers are the folks that brought these issues to the table.

How many Steam cleaners do you see, with statements in their ads that imply negativity towards the dry cleaning process?

Maybe a fraction of a percent of all ads run.

How many dry cleaning ads do you see where there are implications of it being a safe or safer method than HWE - some even going so far as to state steam cleaning as a dangerous method - EXPONENTIALLY more.

Make it corporate policy to forbid such hollow unfounded statements, and you'll most likely see HWE cleaners easing off the pedal back at you folks.

I do know this, HWE firms HEAVILY outnumber the dry cleaning firms out there - should we, at the same rate dry cleaning firms do, start taking the same approach to bashing our nemesis, you folks will certainly feel it more than we ever have or will.

How long before it starts to take a slide in that direction?

Who knows.

Only you folks will when it happens.

A ban on HWE bashing and safer alternative blurbs?

Maybe something to take to the next board meeting Chem Dry.

Damn Bob!, It sounds like you threw a whole bucket of good knowlegdable stuff into the fan. I just celibrated my 30th in this rediculous industry. Everyone impressing me with thier certified bs! Don't get me wrong. Some certified techs keep on learning, some learn nothing at all. But you still made a good post. So I'll offer to hold your coat, while you kick ass, and throw your next bucket in the fan. Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!

I have had many years experience with the Chem-Dry System.

I found though as with anything, you have to have many tools in the tool box.

We found the bonnet system worked best for carpet cleaning when it was for a maintence visit.

Restorative cleaning could not be acomplished with bonnet cleaning.

HWE was by far the best method over all.

We found when we implemented HWE we never had to turn away any job. We found that even with the 450 machine, you were still leaving solution in the carpet and thus we only pre-sprayed and then rinsed with the machine.

I noticed up above someone named Cory said he had a store that was cleaned horribly with the bonnedt system. I wonder when he called chem-Dry out if it was Chem-Dry of Bexar County.

They have and use a White Magic, a Steam Action Stealth , a Nikki and two 450 machines, Those were the machines I had when I ran that Franchise up until I was terminated March of 2005. The new owner still has those truck. I wonder if it were the same Chem-Dry Cory called previously, because we did not use the bonnet method for several years because we could not really get the carpets cleaned without HWE.

Just curious cory.

HRI puts to many franchises in one area and thus
places a burden on all of the franchises to compete with each other. They also restrict trade by allowing one person to buy up all franchises in a county that would keep others out from service to whom ever a customer wish's to serve them.

I believe it would be called restriction of trade.

Should you decide to leave the Chem-Dry system, you cannot conduct business within the same field for a period of two - three years.

If you don't believe in what your doing, you cannot leave unless your willing to suffer a great loss.

They change the contracts continually. When your contract is up and you've built your business what choice do you have but to sign again and again or loose what you paid for to advertise, overhead, grow your customer base, that is just a small list of sacrifics and hard work.

It is unfair and wrong to treat your franchisees in such a manner.

There is sever punishment if your caught in violation, even if what you need to do to survive and make your business prosper.

I agree with Roger who has written about his insights.

I am no longer in the system and have started a new business.

I use HWE with a portable and have learned much more and have accomplished amazing results in cleaning that have over all been nothing short of amazing. My work speaks for itself and I am sure that along with me , others that have posted would love to show before and afters to prove our work. In fact, I recently went behind a local Chem-Dry job where they told the customer the carpet was worn out and needed replacing and that is why they could not get it cleaned.

I cleaned all of that carpet and made it look like newly installed carpet. I saved the customer about 25,000 in carpet replacement because I could do it right.

I don't know how they cleaned it or with what, but it looked horrible. I was glad I could do that for this customer.

Do you think He will have it done by anyone else?

DCB

I have somthing to add to this story to prove my piont. So they claim they are professionals. They are giving cleaning tips on spot cleaning carpet on thier website. (No. 1)If scrubing is bad for the carpet (Wich I know it is!), what are they using a buffer for? (No. 2) Why instruct a homeowner to use a petrolium base solvent to remove a matching stain such as greese, lipstick, etc. Knowing ( if they know at all?) that it could affect the latex backing that holds the carpet together? I could go ON, and ON, and ON, about different aspects of thier techniques.

So let's get to the real kicker. If you read some of the postings before this you will see some of great, and almighty IICRC certified techs attacking some of my postings. (I'm Intiminated by all of thier knowledge). Look on the ChemDry site and you will notice them talking about "TRAFFIC LANE GREY". Did they explain what it was? NO THEY DIDN'T! So let me. The black, to grey trails in your carpet is possible burnoff (SOOT) from several things. Burning candles, gas stoves, Built on garages, leaving the pilot on in your fireplace, etc.

When you have a flame in or around inside the house, burning fuel will make soot (CARBON). When your air system is running, it will suck it into the air return. Then it will come out of all of the registers in the house. Then, when the system shuts down, it will settle on any hard surface floor such as tile, or wood. Then your feet will track it through the house causing in most cases a permanent stain. "You ask" will it come out? Not with a buffer! With the right chemical, and hot water extractin, you can remove alot of it, but not all of it. Depending on living habits, and type of carpet. Some turn out very well, some don't. Thank Ya'll for this educational moment!

I read through the negative reports of carpet cleaning companies; I clean carpet for major high profile companies; I suggest that if you are shoping for carpet cleaning; first google "carpet cleaning methods"; all carpet manufactures recommend Deep Cleaning" also known as "Steam Cleaning"; the only method I use.

A great carpet cleaner will not clean an 800 sq ft apartment in 20 minutes; It takes me 1.5hrs with good chemicals, a heated carpet extractor(also known as a steam cleaner), and a Power Wand (A motorized Steam Cleaner Wand With rotating scrub brush).

Also to properly clean a carpet; You MUST get it wet !!! The cleaner should make several dry Passes with wand to remove excess water from carpet. Also a good carpet cleaner will recommend at a modest extra charge to leave blowers or fans for 12 hrs or more to completely dry the carpets.

MAKE SURE NO MATTER WHAT KIND OF UNIT USED ON THE CARPET; HAVE THEM VACUUM THE CARPET THOROUGHLY WITH A GOOD CLEAN REGULAR VACUUM CLEANER TO REMOVE ALL THE LOOSE DIRT AND DEBRIS BEFORE THEY START TO STEAM CLEAN YOUR CARPET!!!!

I have been in this business for 21 years and have had my share of problems. I think you must be a person who didn't comply with the rules and were punished for it; so you went out on your own with a chip on your shoulder.

CHEM DRY IS A WELL REGULATED COMPANY THAT HAS RULES, AND IF YOU DON'T COMPLY, THEN YOU WILL BE FINED OR WILL LOSE THE FRANCHISE. WINE AND CHEESE IS WHAT YOU WILL END UP WITH!

RICHARD V
CHEM-DRY OF STOCKTON

1st nerd
if you feel you lied and took avdavtage of your customers you did it has nothing to do with chem . it shows you are not honest your fault , there are thiefts in every business, if you signed a contract giving away your rights thats your fault the sign of inexperence , don't worrie about steam cleaners , there still in business .
2 nd keith
these magazines rate according to how much money you charged your customers , first in the mag.'s means you charged your customers more then anybody else , not a thing to brag about . to launch a new method shows your company's old method didn't work or needed improvement.
3rd chem
again do not brag about these mag's , rating is based on how much you made ,not how good you are or customer satisfaction
4th rip off response
all systems & companies have complaints and all systems work and remove some dirt , if you want a happy customer it's easy ask tree time before you leave are you happy ,are you happy , are you happy
5th john
the texas realtor ass. did independent tests for many years , stating truck mount steam cleaning is the best , knowing they would lose money from other systems not joining , loseing money now that independent tests.
6th cathy
your sis does not count (sorry)
7th john
two hours to clean 1100 s.f. is exceptable ,nothing to complain about
8th gary
most berbour are olfin , you should use only olfin cleaner , with ten years experence you are a beginner
9th joe
carbonate is one of the oldest and safest soap yes soap know to man and is green it will not hurt our earth , some steamers uses phosphates not as safe and not earth friendly i would be scared if someone over used this chem on my carpets
10th matt
in my opinion again a base of sodium caronate is a soap , one the oldest cleaner know to man , a dry soap (detergent)
11ernie
3-m did announce they will be calling , they are going to have a preferred method , my opinion it will not be a company but a system
12
if you are iicrc then you know you do not clean the entire yarn , you need to go back to school . cleaning the entire yarn leads to over wetting
13 john
sodium carbonate is a cleaner , it is a type of detergent (dry soap)
14 roger
if you rinsed your carpets you cleaned you would not have scale build up , you don't rinse your carpet to get the chem. out of the carpet.
15th roger
you don't have to use pressure , truckmount steamers are high pressure ,over 500 p.s.i. will rip apart some carpets
16th joshua
the problems is with call a register iicrc ,a lot of times the title is held by the owner not the route man they send to your house , and sometimes the certifications are expired when looking at the adds in the big yellow book
17cory
all system have complaints
18 roger
28 years , truck mounts have been around longer then that , are you lieing or you just don't know , in the middle east they beat there rug with sticks thats a dumb thing to say and to use a truck mount that far up is also dumb ,thats tree dumb things said in one comment section (tree times your out)
19 roger
you can recommen k.c. but

he's not the one coming to your house
20 john
you sound like a ad (spam) for chem. any body using the words i commisioned can not be trusted , you paid you commissioned ,you bought a report , your words can not be trusted
21 lester

to leave any chem. in your customers carpets is not acceptable and for a carpet cleaner to admit it is a shame a shame
22
your insurance claimn statements 900 p.s.i. 250 degrees is just dumb , please don't make dumb statement it make you not trust worthy
23
does this kit say what kind of mold your testing for ,this kit was bought by your wife your a prefesional but your wife does not trust your work and word should the city of houston trust you , i don't think so
24
hot always cleans better ,nobody would believe different ,and high pressure will do just as much harm as a buffer or scubber , over 500 p.s.i will rip some carpet apart chem-dry does remove dirt to say it does not is a lie ,over using any chem on a carpet is not good or safe to your customers
25 roger
some stains will only come out with solvent , such as paint , how do you get paint out of a carpet , you don't use solvents , you don't , you can't get paint out of a carpet i know this ,because you don't use solvents
26 d'cola
some searchs are not a good system to find a good cleaner , some searchs have to do with how much money they make ,not how happy there customers are ,some do not allow any body in there search engine unless they pay, not a good information system not based on info ,but cash
27 whiner & cheese
i have met a chem guy that does 1 million in business ,I don't think chem is going to fire him for any reason
28 bob
most carpet people believe some org's are making large amount of money to say moeny does not change hands is just putting your head in the sand . don't believe everything the org's are saying
29 darlene
all methods remove some dirt , i use both methods , different methods and differnt chemicals remove different stains , a lot professionals think portables are convenient for some jobs but not professional equipment you can rent a portable at any true value or lumber store , spend some money get something real

I am a former Operations manager in the industry. ChemDry is moderately affective. They do bad mouth hot water extraction. They are wrong. The carpet manufacturers recommend hot water extraction as the preferred cleaning method. The IICRC does not offer a ChemDry based certificate, they offer a Carpet Cleaning Tech certificate that is hot water extraction based.
To: ChemDry
Using Entrepreneur, Business Opportunities (who you advertise with) as a reference of your quality is a joke. These magazines make their money by selling advertising to a lot of bad business franchises.

I have been in the carpet cleaning industry for 25 years and i'm familiar with every cleaning process available. Several years ago i came across a couple who owned two chem-dry franchises, but they had to sell them according to their divorce settlement. I decided to purchase them only because they discounted the price for a quik sale and the price was too good to pass up. Harris research knew i also owned a steam cleaning company ,but agreed to the transfer of ownership if i operated the chem-dry franchises and the steam cleaning company completely independent of eachother. My entire chemdry training consisted of watching a video and answering some questions.

The entire chem-dry process was a joke. With the chem-dry system you're cleaning the carpet with essentially dirty bonnet pads attached to a rotary buffer. Would someone clean their kitchen floor with a dirty mop? of couse not, so why would you clean your carpet that way. I constantly called Harris research and voiced my concerns, only to be told i wasn't using the system properly. We're not talking rocket science, and a trained chimp could clean carpet using the chemdry method.

Every franchisee i spoke with had no previous carpet cleaning experience, therefore they were convinced chem-dry was the best because they didn't have experience with any other sysyem to compare it to.

The reason chemdry is so successful is solely due to selling franchises to naive and gullible franchisees. They over-saturate a territory with multiple franchisees.

I cannot tell you how many customers carpets we cleaned using the chem-dry method called our office to complain. I reached the point whereby the only way to satisfy the complaining customers was to return to their homes and reclean their carpet using truck mounted steam cleaning. In every case the carpet cleaned very well and the water i extracted from the carpets we had just cleaned using the chem-dry process was filthy. So if chem-dry really does clean carpet then why was i able to extract so much dirt afterwards. The chemdry process transfers the dirt from the top of the carpet to the bottom of the carpet using the rotary buffer, which is the same process Kiwi services and Mighty clean uses, both of which are known scams.

LET ME SUMMARIZE THE ENTIRE CHEM-DRY PROCESS: SPRAY CARBONATED WATER ALONG WITH CHEM -DRY'S SPECIAL SECRET SAUCE CHEMICAL ONTO THE CARPET AND THEN ATTEMPT TO EXTRACT USING DIRTY BONNET PADS ATTACHED TO A ROTARY BUFFER.

I HIGHLY RECOMMEND THAT ANYONE LOOKING INTO PURCHASING A CHEM-DRY FRANCHISE FIRST COMPARE THE CLEANING RESULTS OF CHEM-DRY TO THAT OF TRUCKMOUNTED STEAM CLEANING. DON'T LISTEN TO ANY OF THE BRAINWASHING TACTICS CHEM-DRY USES TO CONTROL THEIR FRANCHISEES AND TO JUST DECIDE FOR YOURSELF.

I HONESTLY BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE ENOUGH GULLIBLE PEOPLE WHO WOULD PURCHASE A CARPET CLEANING SYSTEM THAT ADVERTISED USING COTTON BALLS AND APPLE JUICE IF THE COMPANY PROMOTING THE SYSTEM SOUNDED CONVICING ENOUGH, AND THE COMPANY PROMOTING THAT SYSTEM WOULD FIND FRANCHISEES.

I was actually trying to research Dry-Chem and this popped up. Perhaps this can help:

1. I am not familiar with Chem-Dry per se, but I have had my carpets chemically cleaned. Nowadays my focus is on health, and I am not 100% sure it's good to have more chemicals in the house. However, I must say I prefer chemical cleaning to steam cleaning because it tends to stay clean longer.

2. Let me explain: no matter how much extracting the steam cleaner does, and I've used lots of them...Stanley Steamer and others...the carpet looks wonderful for awhile, but then, because of the dampness, the dirt comes up from the bottom of the carpet. I had pale banana wall-to-wall (came with the house; I never would have chosen it), and no matter who I used, in a week, the old dirt would come back from underneath the carpet. There doesn't seem to be any way around it. However, if you want to keep chemicals to a minimum in your home, steam is the way to go.

3. ALL franchises require the franchisee to use their products! The buns in Wichita, KS McDonald's are identical to the buns in Jamaica, WI. It's to ensure uniformity and a predictable customer experience. Franchises are not for everyone. They're not for ME; I'm too much of a free spirit. But the franchisee knows the rules before (s)he invests in a franchise. If a person wants to do something else, then they need to start their own business and do it their way. And there's nothing wrong with that; it's what made America great! But they should not invest into a franchise. They will only become bitter in the end.

For one I don't have any opinions about the franchise owners part of the business but all I know is that Chem-Dry pays my bills and every customer that has had their carpets, upholstery, and tile has been pleased with the quality of work and price I have given them. From your comments about the company it sounds like your bashing a company that gives fair prices to customers who need an affordable option compared to "Steam Cleaners". So heres a real example of a quote I just did on Stanley Steamer's website, for just three bedrooms (remember this is a quote) its $122.00!!! Now the fair and reasonable price the Chem-Dry I work for gives you 3 rooms, any kind of room from living, foray, loft, office and so on with a free bathroom or hall  is only $80 flat charge!!!! Now I can keep this going all day with all the extras we and Stanley Steamer but its a waste of time no matter how big or how small Chem-Dry will always be cheaper and the results will be the same!!! The only person to blame for having the feeling of ripping people off is you, don't tell me that the corporate management made you hike your prices or even lie to you customers to up-sale packages that they didn't need. The franchise owner of the Chem-Dry I work for has been in business for over 10 years in the Las Vegas valley and is still going strong even in this bad economy, and do you know why? Like I said more affordable and the same quality of work. You know what I hate? Its when I have to clean the mess that a independently owned and backed steam cleaning company that claims $47 dollars for three rooms and we do a better job then any Chem-Dry cleaning. all your doing is raping their carpet with water, cheap cleaning agents, and untrained employees. You have even said in your hate filled report that you had no experience in carpet cleaning so the only experience you have even after owning a Chem-Dry is office Clerical duties and now it scares me even more that you now own a Steam Cleaning business. Like I said I don't know about the owning aspect of the company but don't spread lies about or practices, prices, and quality of work just because you have some grudge.