Ripoff Report: University Of Phoenix Online Or UOP Online Pitiful excuse for an education sub-standard practices terrible counselors deceptive company Phoenix Arizona *EDitor's Comment

#1

Employee

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UOP isn't a degree mill

Brandon - Mesa (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

Cynthia,

I understand your frustration with UOP, and as an Admissions Counselor for the Online department I'm sorry you feel the way you do about UOP and how we operate.

The learning module that we use in our classes is one of the best ways for individuals to learn; it's called application based learning. Application based learning produces about a 70% retention rate of the things taught in the class as opposed to test based which only has about a 25% retention rate.

About half of the Fortune 500 companies either pay UOP directly for their students to go to school here or have adopted their own teaching program which is based on the exact method that we utilize. That says a lot when places like Boeing, NASA, AT&T, and General Dynamics want their students to go to UOP. It means that the degree you receive from UOP is more than a piece of paper; it's an opportunity for advancement.

Yes, there is a lot of time involved. I tell my students to expect to spend as much as 20-25 hours a week for the first two or three classes. After that, you can usually get by with about 10-15 hours. This is because you get used to the Online enviornment and know what it takes to get things done. The question I ask of you is how much were you posting in the class? If you were posting 15 times a day then you were over doing it. The requirement is to post twice a day at least five days a week; that will get you your participation points for the class.

The instructors are your co-workers. We only hire faculty that have at least a Master's Degree in the field they work in, they teach the classes that pertain to the field they work in, and they have to go through a training course with UOP to become certified to teach our students. There are avenues that you could have utilized if you felt that your instructor was sub-par.

It seems to me that you didn't really want to put the effort into a degree, you wanted someone to hand one to you. That's not what UOP is about. As the largest private university in the nation we pride ourselves on only graduating individuals who worked hard for their degree. If we start a 'degree mill' we'd be just like the correspondence schools you see on TV.

You're more than welcome to go to the local University and see what happens. You might take two classes a semester which is 12 credits a year. So you're looking at ten years to get your Bachelor's Degree. Of course you're going to have to go to class two nights a week for three or four hours a night, drive to and from class, and still have homework. What about the family?

Ask yourself this Cynthia; why did you originally decide to go back to school? There was something in your life that made you realize you need a degree. Something told you that the only option you had was online.

You're more than welcome to call me and discuss any concerns you have. MY number there is 800-366-9699 ext 8840.

#2

Consumer Comment

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Medical Drop

Brandon - Mesa (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

Just as a follow up to my earlier response, it appears that Cynthia dropped from UOP about six months ago for a medical situation. There is no note of her having any issues with the class, instructor, or amount of work.

It appears that this may just be a disgruntled student who didn't read the contract they signed for financial aid and feels that they shouldn't have to abide by the rules that the rest of our students do.

#3

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Don't expect education to be easy!

Tim - Grand Haven (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

Cynthia, I've spent many years in the higher education setting, and I can't remember one professor who told me up front how much of a pain in the ass their class was going to be. Gettng an education isn't easy, and it isn't supposed to be.

If you need to work full time while seeking your education, it's not unreasonable to expect some late nights and missed sleep - these things only serve to build the character you will need for success in life. Online learning is a very young field, and accreditation for such programs is very hard to get because accrediting agencies are very skeptical about the format.

As such, one should not expect that an online course is going to be easier than a traditional course - if anything it will be harder because the university needs to prove that it is providing a quality education. it sounds like your only real beef is that the experience was too time consuming (how much decent instruction did you plan on getting from an online course?). You should have at least just stuck it out and transferred to a real school so as not to default on your loan.

Here's the flip side of the coin: the U of P advertises itself as if utilizing their services is an easier way to a degree than the traditional route. If this is what you want, however, then why are you so concerned about getting a quality education?

#4

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You get out of it what you puts in it

Jerry - Boston (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

I too went to U of Phoenix, graduateing with a MBA in Buisness management. Though I am still searching for the "right" job, I am more than satisfyed by the amount of assistance given me during my matriculation.

When I was first ofered a scholarship to U of Phoenix, I was sceptical because I didn't want to live somewhere its hot all of the time. Then I found out I could do it by "dot com" and that seemed better. Like I said I got a scholarship but I had to pay room and board. I said "even though I am learning at home" and they said it was a technicality from the people in Arizona's board of Education. Like I said I was sceptical at first but it wasn't much really, considering the education I got.

I'll let you know how it turns out. In closing to Cynthia I say only keep at it and god bless you and whatever you do to fihgt for yor education! Its worth it trust me on that.

#5

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UOP is accredited

Brandon - Mesa (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

Tim,

UOP is Regionally Accredited; which is the highest accredidation a school can receive. Yale, Harvard, Arizona State University, and pretty much any other major college are Regionally Accredited.

Because we are an Online institution, yes, we do have to make our program harder in order to make our degree worth something, however, the education that a student receives from UOP is not inferior to any other school.

One of the best features about UOP is that our instructors work in the field they teach. If you go to a local University more than likely the instructor has not worked in the field they are teaching for ten or more years, so what they are teaching is from a book and the knowledge of what it was like ten years ago. Explain to me how that is a benefit to the student? UOP prides itself of our students being able to 'learn things tonight that you can use at work tomorrow.'

UOP isn't for everyone. Some people need an instructor to hold their hand and baby them through school. They need to go to a physical classroom and have a more structured experience. However, the average age of UOP's students is 38, which means that they more than likely have a spouse and kids, so going to a ground school three or four hours a night two days a week isn't an option for them. That is where UOP comes into the picture. We provide those studens the opportunity to obtain their degree; whether it be their Associates, Bachelors, Masters, or even their Doctorite.

#6

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Other options

Jimmy - Tampa (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Thursday, February 13, 2003 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

I am in the process of completing my MBA, I obtained my BS degree attending an accelerated multi-course program at a local private university. Before signing up I inquired about UOP program and decided not to because they would not accept all of my credits from my AA degree. I had 71 credits and they would only accept 52. I talked to the counselor and they would not work with me. My local private university (nationally accredited university) accepted all of them so, I enrolled into their program. The classes were 6 to 10 weeks long depending on what they were and I completed the requirements in just over 2 years and the cost was about $100 less per credit hour compared to UOP.

I am now 3 classes away from obtaining my MBA in a similar University program. So, when Brandon states that it will take you 10 years to get your Bachelors degree going to a traditional University, he is wrong. I started my BS with an AA (traditional) and when to a MBA in about 5 years. Oh yeah, my program is not a degree mill either, I have to attend class one night a week for 4 hours and a study session with my learning group at least once a week. I have a ton of homework and it is a pain in the ass sometimes but I do see a light at the end of the tunnel.

Basically, there are numerous options other than an online university, but you still have to get the work done to fulfill the requirements.

Also, Cynthia use a spell checker, it gives you more creditability.

#7

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A friendly little debate

Tim - Grand Haven (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Thursday, February 13, 2003 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

Brandon, the purpose of university instruction is not to teach someone how to do a job, but to educate them in the theories of a particular academic field. Teaching somebody how to do an actual job, which is what non-doctorate instructors generally do, is "training," better left to vocational schools and on the job learning.

I recieved my undergraduate degree in a field and at an institution that utilizes many "adjunct" professors, instructors who do not hold doctorates but work in the field. Overall, the quality of instruction recieved in classes taught by adjuncts was far less than those taught by tenured professors. This is because adjuncts are only knowedgable as far as their particular job goes. They are not up on theory and current advances in the field, and most of them have forgotten the theory they learned while they were in school.

An academic study done a few years back found that college instructors who do not hold doctorates teach at about a high school level and spend much more time relaying anecdotes then actually teaching theory. You can dismiss the value of theory, but anyone who studies education will tell you that knowing why something is done a certain way is the key to being able to do it well. Without knowing the theory behind a career, you are only capable of going through the motions.

Without foundational knowledge it is dificult to formulate how to do the job better and to see why the way you are doing it isn't working so well. I like to use the analogy of policework, as I once did a study into the career lives of policemen who were trained versus educated. Trained policemen, those with an associates or lower, have nearly double the amount of complaints lodged against them and are rarely promoted to supervisory positions. Educated policemen, those with a bachelors or higher, have a far greater conviction rate, fewer complaints lodged against them, and can expect promotions about every five years. This is because the officer who has been educated knows the psychological, sociological, legal and managerial theories pertaining to his job. The trained officer, who learned only how to do the job and was taught by other policemen only knows the practicalities of line law enforcement.

I know that as far as its format goes, U of P is a respected institution and fills a very vital gap in the education field for non-traditional students. There are also good points to recieving some anecdotal teaching and practical instruction. I just don't think an entire education should be focused on this type of teaching, and I think that you are mistaken in assuming that it is better than the traditional type.

#8

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Phoenix University online is missing the point

Gregory - Redding (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Thursday, February 13, 2003 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

February 13, 2003

Jerry - Boston, Massachusetts a graduate of your MBA program does not take the time to use spell checker before he posted. Hey, that is cool.

Please explain to me what application-based learning is. Abstract thinking is not needed as much and the meat and potatoes. Give her the facts, not the abstracts. She is not necessarily looking to be a Doctor of Abstract Thinkology.

Even the posting from Tim suggests your advertising is misleading. “U of P advertises itself as if utilizing their services is an easier way to a degree than the traditional route. “

If she says you are not providing the material, then you need to sit down and listen.

Bringing up about a Medical withdrawal is unprofessional Brandon. That is personal information. How would you like a posting about specifics on your personal life?

You had a Health Care program there for years that would have allowed my cat to be a specialist.

MBA's as instructors? Who cares if the message is lost in the messenger?

Make the Online program easier or do not do it at all.

Cut the extraneous crap out and teach the core fundamentals.

Why should it be harder than campus work?

You are inferring that your credibility lies in the fact that your online courses are Regionally Certified. Explain what standard Regional Certification is based on! I would like to know.

Greed is written in your response Brandon - Mesa, Arizona. Work with the woman and help her through the expense issue. Sending her to collections is B. S.

The Whitehouse might not take kindly to a Fortune 500 company-endorsed school you suggest Univ. of Phoenix is, acting as Loan Sharks.

This reminds me of a Professor coming to a failing student saying, “I can appreciate your situation”.

Appreciate your situation? Give me a break you pompous pea-head.

#9

Consumer Comment

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Stop beeing angry and you will learn, Gregory

Jerry - Boston (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Thursday, February 13, 2003 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

Gregory, you are the peahead! You used "inferring" when you meant "implying"! What a dumbass! No wonder UofP regected you. You obvioulsy don't have the brain powers to cut it as a Phoenixian.

I think you owe Brandon a apology you meathead. You have prooved why you can't make it hear!

Go Phoenixians!

#10

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Not seeing the point...

Brandon - Mesa (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Thursday, February 13, 2003 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

Let's start with Jimmy in Tampa. I consider a traditional University one that goes by normal semesters; i.e. August - December and January - May. At that type of school you are looking at 10 years to get your degree in the format that I described. The school you went to is considered a non-traditional school; same as UOP.

Tim in Michigan; I don't think you understand what UOP is or what we do. Yes, some of what you learn in a class is basically teaching you how to do something; there is also traditional teaching where you are learning the theories behind the instruction. Adjunct professors as you call them are probably the best way to learn. As I said earlier, how does it benefit the student to have a professor teach them things that they haven't worked with in 10-plus years? Most professors at traditional Universities only teach; our professors not only teach part-time, but they work full-time in the field they teach. Therefore, the information that you learn in class is current and useful information.

And then there's Gregory in Redding. Cynthia, the original complainant of UOP, brought up the point that she quit before her first class was even finished and feels that she shouldn't have to pay for the money she borrowed from the federal government. She also made it seem as though she dropped because UOP wasn't meeting her expectations and was inferior to whatever school she may choose. My point in bringing up the medical drop was to show that in fact she dropped due to medical reasons, and not because UOP was a bad school. I think that she is just trying to drag our name through the mud because she didn't abide by the Master Promissory Note that she signed while borrowing money.

Also Greg, I never said that any particular company endorsed UOP. I said that they directly paid for their students to go here; there are other choices I am sure. I don't really think the White House cares to be honest. And where did you get that we were loan sharks? We don't even grant loans. In order to be a loan shark you must grant loans at an exorbitant interest rate. We utilize federal Stafford loans which are federally guaranteed. We go through banks such as Bank of America, Citibank, and Wells Fargo. So if you feel that there is any 'loan sharking' you need to take that up with our lenders.

To cover the 'extraneous crap' as you put it, that is what gives our students a rounded education. It's nice to be able to have proper sentence structure and grammar, basic math skills, and some social understanding of the people around you; therefore we require basic classes. We're not a vocational school, if you want just core classes go to Education America or ITT.

To everyone; I am not saying that UOP has never had a bad employee who may have done the wrong thing or a student that doesn't have a right to be mad at us for one reason or another, I am saying that this particular complaint is invalid based on the reasons she gave for being upset with us. As you will note I did post my number for her to call me and am more than happy to help her out, but she has to take that step.

#11

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Stirring up the Honey Pot

Cynthia - Johnston (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Thursday, February 13, 2003 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

Apparently, I have touched upon a sore spot. I certainly didn't expect to see the responses that this report generated. I was inspired to forward my thoughts regarding UOP after reading some others experiences. However, after reading through all of the rebuttals that have accumulated, I thought I should provide my own.

First of all, I will address Brandon. Brandon, you had a sharp retort to my comments, however did you manage to actually understand my points? And as for the medical drop, you're right, that was ONE of the reasons I dropped. My medical condition was exacerbated by the lack of sleep that accompanied an education regimen such as this one. I do agree with Greg; that is PERSONAL business and should not have been discussed to an open forum even if you were trying to prove your point. It is EXTREMELY unprofessional!!! However, as stated to both John (my counselor) and the person who handled my financing, I ALSO complained about the lack of information I was provided prior to class and the education I was receiving. It's funny how that didn't make it to the “file”.

I wholeheartedly understand that it's a “buyer-beware” situation when you sign up with UOP. That was truly a mistake. I allowed myself to be carried away by the “deal” I was to receive if I started IMMEDIATELY. Who can beat having expensive books for a class paid for? When I was first contacted by John; my interest initiated via an Internet inquiry, I had no clue I would be catching a fast-moving train. I was effectively “fast-tracked” into a class. When I asked John what class life was like, he never mentioned the daily postings. He never told me I would have to post twice, five days a week. He didn't mention the study groups, nor did he mention the types of professors I would encounter. He failed to tell me that I would be with the same students throughout my two years. This information would have been extremely useful in making an INFORMED decision about whether to attend UOP or not.

I am not one to shy away from hard work. I attended Arizona State University. I worked hard to get where I was with that school. Unfortunately, because of personal reasons, I had to leave school to return home prior to obtaining my degree. I chose to go back for my degree because it was, to me, a piece of unfinished business. I work in the finance industry and have for 12 years. I have obtained securities licenses and am well into my chosen career. I did not expect to simply have a degree HANDED to me; that would be of no use. However, if I had walked into the situation with my eyes wide open, I wouldn't have wasted any money on UOP. I suppose I didn't ask the right questions of my counselor, and if I had, maybe I would have made another choice. Brandon, you seem to be forthcoming with your information. It's too bad you weren't my counselor.

And to you Jerry; it's sad that you feel you must use barbs and insults to defend your position. Although you may disagree with another's comments, what do you gain by insulting that person? It's this type of mentality that promotes negativity in this society. What kind of individual are you when a difference of opinion is raised and you react with a personal attack? Sitting in a boardroom hashing out a problem must be an interesting affair; I wonder what your HR department would think of that.

Thank you, Gary and Tim, for your comments. I am considering finishing my education at URI and will most likely be finished in two years. They are willing to accept more credit hours than UOP and because they are a traditional school, they don't have to meet the same requirements that UOP does.

I think my overall point in this whole debate was that, although UOP advertises itself as a fast way to get your degree, it never state the commitment required to obtain it. Remember those books I mentioned I was eligible to receive for starting class when I did?

Well, because UOP never sent me the “Little Brown Book” that was a critical part of my class grade (despite over 10 phone calls requesting it); I received lower marks on my papers. In addition, these study groups Brandon discusses are uneven in their design. Another student and I were the ones who did the BULK of the work. What did that teach me, other than the fact that, in life, there are always some willing to work hard for what they want, and there are always some more willing to let YOU work hard for what THEY want?

#12

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Good Luck

Brandon - Mesa (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Friday, February 14, 2003 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

Cynthia,

Once again I want to apologize for the negative experiance you encountered with UOP. I truly am sorry.

You're right, I try to be as open with ALL of my students about what is expected of them. I even tell them that they should expect to spend about 20-25 hours a week doing class work; which is about right. Some counselors don't think that is important information, I however want to enroll students who have made an informed decision and know what their getting into. UOP doesn't want a student for one class, we want them to finish their degree with us.

I wish you the best of luck with your degree.

#13

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Thanks for the Heads Up!

David - Bullhead City (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Saturday, February 15, 2003 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

Thank you Cynthia for the information. I was just about to go for UOP until I read your report. You saved me thousand of dollars. The even have a extension office in the community college here. I'm noticing Brandon is from Mesa, Arizona and the Rip Off Report has hundereds of post about this city. It seems the whole city is corrupt. Again thank you Cynthia.

#14

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Corrupt???

Brandon - Mesa (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Saturday, February 15, 2003 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

David,

What the hell does me living in Mesa have to do with anything? Would it make a difference if I lived in Ahwatukee or Cave Creek? How about if I lived with you in Bullhead City?

Where I live has nothing to do with UOP, nor does it have anything to do with my character.

I believe the posts you have read about Mesa have to do with the political aspect of the town; i.e., police and city officials, not individuals. In which case you will find complaints, whether written or spoken, about ANY city in the country that has a government body.

Saying and/or implying that I or UOP are corrupt based upon the location where one of it's employees lives is illogical and unfounded.

#15

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Before you enroll in any degree completion program

Anon - Miami (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Saturday, February 15, 2003 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

Well, lots of comments on the subject. I have also worked as a recruiter and counselor for a college offering a baccalaureate degree completion program. We had several students transfer from UofP, due to many reasons. Some employers in the region I recruited in would no longer offer tuition reimbursement for U of P due to the poor quality of the education. Keep in mind U of P is all over, so what is true in one location might not be true in another location.

One big reason seemed to be financial aid foul-ups. The second biggest reason was the co-hort format of the classes. That means, as a student, you are in with the same group of people for your program. It is inflexible, if you drop out you have to wait for the next round to come by offering the class so you can continue the sequence. Not all programs are like that, so you might want to check around before you pick a program.

There were issues with the U of P accreditation when I was recruiting for a competing institution--I don't know if that is still the case, but it is worth checking out before you spend your money. If you get a degree or even if you just want to transfer units, you will find out that an unaccredited school is like going to NO school--the credits and the degree won't count if you want to transfer or go on for an advanced degree.

I agree with Brandon, the rep for U of P on a couple of points--one, be prepared to work if you go back to school. Many classes are tailored for working adults, but that doesn't mean you get a degree just for paying your tuition. If you go anywhere else, you would also be expected to work. Two-- adult students usually come back to school with "baggage". They have math anxiety and english/writing anxiety, they are working full time, often have children, and perhaps little support at home for the return to school. It is a massive undertaking, and any student who does it deserves a lot of respect!

Sometimes, however, their fear takes over and they drop out, but blame the school or the teacher or the class. Examine your own fears before you write off a program. Take a couple of night classes at a local community college to get your feet wet and get the rythym of being a student again.

All schools offering a degree completion program want to see their students succeed. There are resources available at the schools, and I would encourage any student to take advantage of them if they are feeling overwhelmed. Good luck!

#16

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Silly Silly Corrupt Brandon from MESA, Az

David - Bullhead City (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Saturday, February 15, 2003 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

Niether does someones medical history have anything to do with it. Hmmmmm I just checked and no there is no reports in the RIP OFF REPORTS on Bullhead City (unlike Mesa). I can see by the comments here there seems to be a real problem with UOP and it appears you are one of the main problems. I know this week I will be letting the other students know about this report and I'll make sure to mention your name to the UOP represenative here at Mohave Community College. You did this lady (Cynthia) a diservice and have basically proved her point that UOP should be avoided like the plauge. Perhaps you can find employment with the City of Mesa. I'm sure you meet all of thier requirments.

Once again the RIP OFF REPORT exposes a scam!!!

#17

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online application kept deleting my data ..online NONESENCE

Elissa - Boca Raton (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

I couldn't make it past the online app. If that was any indication of what the 'online' learning experience would be forget it!

I was too slow to fill out the application form before the time out. Once I figured out the trick to get around the super short session timeout the data kept getting lost and I had to keep filling in the same data over and over. What was UOP thinking putting the app. online under those conditions.

UOP would have done better to just be upfront and say print out, fill in and FAX the app. in rather that WASTING my time with that online NONESENCE. But then again it showed if UOP cannot run and ‘online' application service how could UOP possibly run an entire ‘online' university.

#18

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Regional accreditation is by no means the gold standard! UoP is proof!

Mike - Kansas City (Afghanistan)

SUBMITTED: Saturday, April 12, 2003 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

Brandon,

Let's set the record straight. Regional accreditation is by no means the gold standard. There are well over 10 institutional accreditors that are fully recognized by the United States Department of Education and the Council for Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA).

In addition to the regionals, a few of the national accreditors include: the Distance Education and Training Council (DETC), the Accrediting Commission for Independent Colleges and Schools (ACICS), and the Accrediting Commission for Career Schools and Colleges of Technology (ACCSCT).

Since all accreditors must meet the exact same standards to earn recognition from CHEA, all three of the aforementioned national accreditors, along with the several that I did not list, are just as valid as the regionals are. In fact, as far as distance education accreditation goes, it could be argued that UoP possesses the wrong accreditation. The DETC has been accrediting distance education schools for much longer than the regionals, and as a result, are much more skilled in that area; not to mention more strict.

Additionally Brandon, you made a smart remark about the correspondence schools that advertise on television. A few things here: #1) UoP advertises more heavily than most of those schools. #2) The schools you refer to hold recognized and valid accreditation; just like UoP. #3) UoP has more complaints than all of those schools combined.

In my humble opinion, the problems with UoP and other similar online programs have more to do with delivery methods, not learning materials. Therefore, I feel that those who wish to pursue advanced credentials from home should choose a DETC school. This is because unlike the regionally accredited online / virtual schools that attempt to bring the classroom to a pc screen, DETC schools cut out all of the unnecessary garbage. They provide study guides, text books, and only when necessary, instructional support. They focus on what is important; learning outcomes.

Visit DETC.org and CHEA.org to learn more about distance education and higher education accreditation.

**NOTE .... Also, stay tuned for upcoming rip-off reports that will focus on the regional accreditors. For far too long, these agencies have allowed many of the elitist bent-left schools that they accredit to engage in discriminatory credit transfer practices, and it must stop now. One of the worst offenders in this area is Thomas Edison State College. Their ignorance of U.S. accreditation is on the same level as Brandon's; bad enough to make one ill. It's not just Thomas Edison though; many other schools are guilty, especially those who receive state funding. So stay tuned..... and if you a dean or registrar at a school with discriminatory policies, consider this your fair warning.

M Jay-Jay Shabazz

#19

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M. Jay-Jay is absolutely correct

Charles - Providence (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Sunday, April 13, 2003 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

JayJay, I agree with you 100%! Liberal academics constantly preach about tolerance and fairness, while promoting diversity and acceptance. However, these hypocrites continue to turn away qualified transfer applicants only because they come from slightly different educational backgrounds. Hmmmm.... Isn't that ironic?

In any event, I look forward to your future rip-off reports. I sincerely hope your efforts help to end the discrimination faced by DETC students.

#20

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Charles... tolerance and diversity in the liberal education field refer to the accpetance of people who are faced with situations that they had no control over. *EDitor's Comment afterwards

Tim - Grand Haven (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

People do have control over what type of educational institution they choose to participate in.

In addition to tolerance of those with different backgrounds, liberal educators are highly concerned with the notion that new paradigms must be thoroughly investigated and proven before they are no longer considered "alternative." For example, if you wanted to open up a law school, or create a new program at your law school, it would be a number of years before you will achieve ABA accreditation, meaning that you may graduate a few classes of J.D.s who will not be able to be attorneys.

UofP and other distance learning institution gradates face a more informal problem. Most employers are still, justifiably, very wary of hiring people who did not recieve their degree from a traditional institution. It will take a long time for people with degreees from online programs to overcome the preconcieved notions that employers have about them. Also, especially in regards to the business field, employers often look for graduates from universties that they, their co-workers, or their clients went to. Distance learning programs are just too young for their graduates to compete with traditional graduates in these regards.

The problem is not discrimination. The problem is that distance learning graduates have, maybe through no fault of their own, not yet proven themselves as competitive with traditional graduates. To hire people educated in a manner that has yet to prove itself comparable to other means would simply be a poor business practice.

#21

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EDitor's Opinion ...Distance education is by no means a new paradigm

. - . (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

Tim, the arguments contained within the rebuttal you responded to had more to do with the discrimination tactics employed by certain institutional educational accreditors. Basically, even though all accreditors meet the same minimum standards, some of them have been known to discriminate against others. For instance, more traditional regionally accredited schools often deny admissions to those with nationally accredited credentials; regardless of whether those credentials were earned on campus or at home.

In any event, although your arguments about distance learning were solid, they were mostly wrong; especially with regards to your statements about the business world. This is because today, many traditional business schools have begun to offer distance degree programs. Schools with AACSB (the business world's ABA) approval, such as Drexel University, now offer distance business degrees at both the undergraduate and graduate levels.

The discrimination usually only begins when the degree comes from a school that is well known for offering only distance programs. Even then though, it is believed that the business world is more accepting of distance learning than any other field. As a result, the number of distance business programs continues to increase.

The field of law on the other hand is a different story; the ABA refuses to review distance learning law schools. The ABA even refuses to review distance law schools that hold valid institutional accreditation. The prejudice against distance learning by the ABA prevents many people from entering the field of law. Many people, for reasons they often can't control, are not able to study law on campus. For instance, what if you lived in Alaska, had a family of five, needed to work at least part time, but wanted to earn a legal education? You'd be screwed!

The reason that the ABA bans distance education is simple; the ABA is run by attorneys who want to limit the number of U.S. lawyers. Additionally, if the ABA were to approve distance law schools, many overpaid law professors would not be able to justify their salaries. More importantly, the traditional law schools themselves would not be able to justify their outlandish tuition rates.

Obviously, the ABA really needs to revise their extremely bad policies. By approving acceptable distance education law schools that are able to provide students with equivalent learning outcomes, the ABA would be making the study of law available to, and more affordable for, everyday Americans. At the same time, they would also be truly promoting diversity. Unfortunately, as of now, those who wish to earn a Juris Doctor law credential from home will only be able to sit for the bar exam in California and a few other states like Vermont and Wisconsin.

More importantly Tim, lets talk about this comment .... "tolerance and diversity in the liberal education field refer to the acceptance of people who are faced with situations that they had no control over. People do have control over what type of educational institution they choose to participate in (Timmy, 2003)" ....

Why do you think people choose to earn credentials at distance learning facilities? It's certainly not because they are lazy. Anybody with knowledge of the subject realizes that distance education requires much more dedication and self-motivation than any other type of study. The reason people 'choose' distance education is because often times they don't really have a choice. Working parents, the disabled, those who live far from universities, and our service members, all utilize distance education simply because they must. People usually don't have control over their disabilities, do they?

As long as a distance education facility is not a degree mill, and meets the minimum standards promulgated by any recognized accrediting agency, the graduates should not be forced to deal with discrimination. Sadly however, this discrimination is most prevalent among liberal academia; especially with regards to admissions, transfer, and hiring processes. Fortunately, the workplace has adapted at a much faster pace. This is because distance education grads have proven themselves to be just competitive and successful in the workplace. It is within academia that the hard work and achievement of these dedicated students is not properly acknowledged.

One more thing Tim.... Distance education is by no means a new paradigm; it is far from being young. Distance learning has been around since at least the 1800's, and is therefore, no longer an alternative; at least not in my opinion. Regardless, since accredited distance education is here to stay, the old fashioned schools better learn to participate. Otherwise, they will eventually become “alternatives” themselves.

Ed Magedson
EDitor@RipoffReport.com

#22

Consumer Comment

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Just a quick follow up to the few recent responses:

Brandon - Mesa (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Thursday, April 17, 2003 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

First off, Regional accreditation is the HIGHEST accreditation a school can receive. It doesn't matter which accrediting body gave the accreditation, Regional is Regional.

Second, the schools that I refer to that offer 'tv/vcr repair' and 'small engine repair' on the television are a joke. There is no way that a certificate (which is all it is) from those schools will get you anywhere in life. Something to think about; do those schools offer financial aid? No. There's a reason for that; they are not accredited. ..............

#23

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EDitor's Response: Brandon that's enough!

EDitor@RipoffReport.com - Nevis Island (Saint Kitts and Nevis)

SUBMITTED: Thursday, April 17, 2003 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

Again Brandon, you are mistaken. Regional accreditation is not the highest level accreditation an institution can receive; that is a false premise. Academics would like to believe it is, but they are wrong. All institutional accreditors, whether they are regional or national in scope, are considered to be equal in the eyes of the U.S. Secretary of Education. Please feel free to verify this with the Dept of Education, the American Council on Education, and the Council for Higher Education Accreditation.

As far as the schools that advertise on television go...... Again, you are wrong, further proving that you are unfit to work in higher education at any level. You should really do your research before you speak. This is because the two main correspondence schools to which you refer do in fact hold recognized accreditation. They are both recognized by the Distance Education and Training Council (DETC), which again, is considered by the U.S. government to be an equal to the regional bodies. Additionally, both of those schools and many others like them do offer degree programs in addition to their certificates. What's more is that UoP regularly accepts transfer credits from these institutions, and considers their degrees to be sufficient for graduate admissions. In fact, I have an email from a UoP admissions officer that proves this. In spite of the number of complaints against the school, UoP's willingness to accept DETC credits is one of their strong points, and actually helps to provide them with a fairly large percentage of their student body.

As far as the financial aid issue goes, you are only half wrong. The schools to which you refer do offer limited amounts of financial aid, and participate with DANTES. These accredited schools have not established a Title IV link with the government as of yet because of the 50% rule; a rule that states an accredited school can not participate in Stafford programs if they offer more than half of their programs via distance education. However, a few schools were permitted to by pass this rule as a part of a pilot type program. After these few distance-only schools prove that they can use their title IV eligibility is a responsible way, this rule will likely be eliminated. Now that Congress is republican controlled, the 50% rule will likely be removed in 2004 or 2005, thereby allowing all distance education students to receive Stafford Loans; even those TV/VCR students you speak of.

Please Brandon, do your research before you open your mouth. You ignorance, unprofessional manner of dealing with students, and lack of higher education knowledge, reflects poorly on your school. Therefore, we are hopeful that UoP will take appropriate actions against you for your irresponsible and reprehensible behavior.

#24

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Let me clarify my points here

Tim - Grand Haven (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Friday, April 18, 2003 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

ED... I think that you and I are actually pretty much in agreement about this topic. My point was not that distance learning is inferior to traditional liberal studies, as long as the focus is on "education" and not "training." For the proffessional fields, training is no substitute for a theoretical based education. UofP advertises that you can use at work tomorrow what you learn today, and that you will be taught by people who actually work in the field. To me these comments suggest that UofPs focus is not on a theoretical education, but on training people to do a job. Training should be picked up in the workplace after an education has been recieved. If your college experience amounts to nothing more than training, you will never get the education part and may find yourself unable to do much more than go through the motions of the job.

Here is the first part of my point, the part that you and I will probably not see eye to eye on, Ed. Because of the above reason, the fact that most distance learning programs are percieved as offering "training" rather than "educations," the mainstream academic community is justifiably skeptical of them. Universities have a duty to the communities that they serve to ensure that everyone they give a degree to has achieved what they consider to be a top notch education. Distance learners are not the only victims of this. You could take classes at Harvard that won't transfer to the Uiversity of Michigan. Universities are very picky about the considerations they give outside institutions. This is a good thing, it helps to maintain the integrity of American higher education, which is on shaky ground globally since over 60 percent of Americans recieve higher educations, as opposed to the global industrialized nation average of 15 to 30 percent. American universities know that they appear inferior to European schools because the standards for admissions are generally very low. They see the proliferation of correspondence learning as an insidious element that will only serve to strengthen global opinion, especially if they acknowledge that distance learning schools are actually comparable to our land based institutions. I am in agreement with this opinion in part. I feel that it is important to maintain the current level of respect that our universities garner, and that the field of distance learning threatens that goal. On the other hand, I'm the first to advocate equality of opportunity, I acknowledge that the internet should be used as a means to achieve equality of educational opportunity, and I acknowledge that several distance learning schools do actually offer an "education" (vs. "training") that is comparable to a traditional university education. My point, in summary, is not that distance learning is necessarily inferior to its alternative, but rather that liberal academia should not be expected to welcome it with open arms.

My second point is that it will take some time for online universities to prove themselves as offering comparable educations. It will take even longer for traditional universities to recognize this. It will take even longer still for proffessional organizations like the ABA to see the light. This is an important process that should move as slowly as it does. We've done things the same way for years and years and found great success with it. When a new paradigm (online learning, not correspondence learning) comes along, it will be a long time before it achieves the same level of recognition that it has taken the previous paradigm centuries to achieve.

Point three: There is definitely a degree of unreasonable personal bias at work. Everybody thinks the education they got is better than what the next guy got. This obstacle is a part of human nature, and will not be overcome until the above three factors have already been overcome and graduates of distance learning programs get tenures at traditional universities.

Here is the opinion I have gleened from these points: to be a competitive student and applicant, a traditional education is probably your best bet. If you can't accomodate a traditional education, and must elect distance learning, try to do it in a program offered by a respected brick and mortar institution, not one that is known primarily as offering distance education. It may not be a good thing for everybody that such discrimination exists, but it does, and the correspondence shool shopper should keep this in mind.

The first graduating class of "Concord Law School" will be taking the California bar exam soon. I am of the opinion that, per legal education, there is no substitute for the socratic method (although you could successfully argue that the socratic method only serves to reduce the faculty to student ratio, thus making the school more profitable). These graduates may prove me wrong. This upcoming event will be a milestone in the distance education field: if these graduates fare well on the exam, it will greatly increase the viability of distance learning. If they do poorly, it will be another hurdle for the field. Also, if they do well, the socratic method will come under heavy attack from all the law school organizations that currently are fighting for its eradication. There is alot at stake, and I wish them the best of luck. I can't wait to see how they do.

P.S. Ed, (Timmy, 2003)? you know better than to use an in text citation without a proper end reference!

#25

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EDitor's Response ..I do partially agree with some of your perspectives.

ED Magedson - Nevis Island (Saint Kitts and Nevis)

SUBMITTED: Saturday, April 19, 2003 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

Sorry Tim, no room here for a reference page. In any event, I do partially agree with some of your perspectives. Like you, I am curious to see how the Concord Law grads will do on the California Bar. Regardless, I am sure the school will put up better numbers than at least a few ABA schools. In fact, according to my preliminary research, it appears that Taft grads have already done so. Using LSAC numbers along with Taft stats, it looks as if they put up better scores than a couple of ABA brick and mortar schools. Since Taft is an older correspondence by-mail school (in a pre-accreditation stage with the DETC), these statistics prove (if accurate) that correspondence law schools can work well. Additionally, these numbers are especially encouraging when taking into consideration that the California bar exam is purportedly one of the toughest in the nation.

As usual, there are a few areas where we don't agree, but that's okay. Here in America you have the right to be wrong ;). First, you seem to lump all distance education in to one category; giving slight preference to online learning vs text book correspondence learning. Unlike you, I feel that the older text book method is more effective. Online schools try too hard to bring the classroom to a computer screen. This will never really work; threaded virtual discussions can not emulate face to face interaction. Therefore, if interaction is extremely important to learners, it is my opinion that they might as well just attend a campus-based school.

However, I still do like online learning; I just very much prefer the text book method. This is because the older text book method cuts out all of the nonsense, and focuses on learning outcomes only. This helps the learner to become focused mainly on their assignments and learning goals; not online discussion threads run primarily by student cohorts. More importantly, the text book method helps students to develop much higher levels of self motivation. Schools such as Taft Law, Andrew Jackson University, and American Military University have shown that this is a very effective study method.

I also believe that when possible, a combination of accredited correspondence learning, together with some on-campus study, would be a student's best bet. This is because such students would be able to prove that they can self-motivate and learn independently; while being able validate their work through some on-campus study. Regardless, when students do decide to utilize only accredited distance learning, they should not face discrimination by academia if they choose to transfer credit. If the courses, course descriptions, syllabi, and learning outcomes, are similar to those of the accepting institution, the credits earned at a distance should be transferable. The source of accreditation or method of course delivery should not be sufficient bases to deny credit.

We also disagree about whether distance learning facilities emphasize theory or practice. Unlike you, I believe that most degree granting distance learning facilities emphasize theory, just like brick and mortar schools do. UoP may or may not be an exception. When it comes down to it, I am sure that their faculty members incorporate this essential part of education into their courses. The several correspondence schools with DETC accreditation that we have researched appear to utilize curricula that mirror those used at on-campus facilities.

Finally, if students need to utilize distance learning over on-campus learning, they should choose schools that have primarily distance oriented course offerings. These students may face more discrimination, but will be better equipped than those who take distance courses from a more traditional institution. This is because such institutions have much experience in the art of teaching from afar. If students choose schools that are not properly equipped to teach distance education courses, the students will suffer in the end due to lack of proper knowledge. More importantly, distance-only schools, especially DETC correspondence schools, seem to have much stricter standards than do the others. For instance, in contrast to online schools, just about every DETC facility requires that degree seeking students take proctored examinations; thereby maintaining program integrity and validating student performance. Additionally, many DETC programs have had their courses reviewed for credit value by the American Council on Education, which again, helps to validate the work of the learner.

*For a list of schools that offer accredited distance learning degree programs, visit detc.org. The schools listed on there offer degrees through the Master's and First Professional degree levels.

Timmy, X. (2003). The new paradigm of online
____ learning. Retrieved April 19 2003 from the
____ World Wide Web: http://www.ripoffreport.com

EDitor@RipoffReport.com

#26

Ex-Employee

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It is a diploma mill racket!

Kathy - Phoenix (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Saturday, May 10, 2003 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

I taught, or I should say, entertained, students for this organization and also performed some contract work which enabled a subsidiary for-profit organization, WIU, to attain certification.

Professors may have to have attained some work experience and some education, but most people who teach there do so out of desperation and nothing else, because Arizona's pay scale is so pathetically low.

Professors are offered more classes to teach based on the reviews of the students, not based on their teaching ability. So if you can tell some jokes and keep these yahoos laughing, you'll get more classes to "teach". At WIU, it helps if you are a male because the woman who chooses the professors is a sex-starved post-menopausal crackpot.

The UOPhoenix organization is only something which benefits Sperling and his cronies. Advancement is only through cronyism and salesmanship, not through ability.
The only education you will get from this joke of an institution is hard knocks kind, when you realize you paid so much and have a worthless diploma.

Save your money, go to a State school or a REAL private university which truly provides real education, does research, and is a credit to the community. UOPhoenix is not.

#27

Employee

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Why are the instructors such poor quality?

David - Detroit (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Monday, June 16, 2003 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

If your are a current University of Phoenix student or considering becoming one just keep in mind that this so called "univeristy" treats its faculty like dirt. Instructors make as little as $850 to teach a 5 week class class. Even those with a PhD and 5 years at the school only get about $1200. To put that in perspective, I was paid more teaching for a community college 15 years ago and didn;t even have an advance degree.

The so called "pay" works out to less than $8 or $9 an hour when one factors in class time, prep, grading, and the unpaid meetings and training the university requires. Of course, there are no benefits. Sure, maybe $9 an hour sounds great if your only making minimum wage, but to someone with a MS, MA, MBA or PhD and 5 or more years of professional experience it's more of an insult then a check. Do you think a master electrician or journeymen plumber would come and work for you for $9 an hour? Of course not.

Consider that if a class has 20 students, not even 5% of what is paid in tuition goes to pay the instructor. And you wonder why many of them don't care?

Some instructors put up with the crap pay becuase they simply enjoy teaching or need something to occupy them in retirement or between real jobs.

As for myself personally I consider more of a paid hobby than a job and I act accordingly. Some weeks I feel interested in my hobby, other weeks I feel that the class is just a waste of 4 hours that I could spend better drinking beer and playing computer games.

I feel sorry for the students, but hey, its the unversity's cheap ass policies that creates the environment. Like the saying goes "you get what you pay for" .

And what ever it is your paying for at University of Phoenix its certainly not modivated quality faculty. And don't get me started on the inadequite facilities!

#28

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UOP is a rip off and Brandon in Mesa is unprofessional

Wendy - Houston (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Friday, January 23, 2004 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

I am a current student at UOP and hate it! As I began to read Cynthia's report, I felt like I was looking in a mirror. At this time, I am going through the exact same things she went through. I have been miss led, lied to and provided with incomplete information. Cynthia if you are still out there, I am also trying to find out if there are any class action lawsuits against UOP that I can join. And if not, I will find my own lawyer, because I am going to fight the school to get them to return my Stafford loan.

To Brandon in Mesa. I can't believe, that as an academic advisor for UOP, that you are so unprofessional as to look into the personal file of a student who was not assisgned to you, and then put her personnal information on such a public forum for all the world to see! I guess it's too much to hope that UOP would take disciplinary action against you. That is called invasion of privacy and is against the law. There are privacy laws in our country. You're just lucky that Cynthia didn't decide to take legal action against you personally! It it had been me, I would have!

#29

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Are UOP units transferrable to other colleges/universities?

Denise - Arcadia (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Saturday, January 24, 2004 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

I have a friend who is attending UOP in Pasadena, California, but is not succeeding very well in her studies. She is interested in transferring to a community college. Are her classes that she has taken at UOP transferrable to other colleges/universities? From what I have researched, it doesn't look like they are transferable? Does anyone know? I would seem like it would be a waste if you could not transfer these classes?

#30

Consumer Suggestion

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UOP credits are "generally" transferable

Steve - Media (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Saturday, January 24, 2004 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

UOP credits are "generally" transferable. The University of Phoenix is regionally accredited by the North Central Association (ncahigherlearningcommission.org).

This means that credits earned at UOP will be recognized in transfer by many traditional colleges. For the most part, if a school is accredited by recognized agency, the credits will have utility.

Usually, though, only grades of C or higher will transfer.

#31

Ex-Employee

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did brandon have permission to release personal info?

Steve - Phx (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

hey brandon, do you always give out information on students without permission? or did cynthia consent to you releasing the reason why she dropped? it's a good thing you were stupid enough to give your phone # and extension, it will make it easier for her to sue your misguided ass. Or did you forget that unless she specifically consents, you have no legal right (and no business) to disclose any information regarding her account to anyone, let alone to the millions of people who may read your misguided ramblings. I mean didnt you learn that in training? I guess that is a case where you let your ass do your talking rather than your pea-sized brain. GOOD LUCK, CYNTHIA!

#32

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Current Student

AJ - St. Louis (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Thursday, January 29, 2004 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

I read through this entire thread, and honestly, a portion of it appears to have gotten severely off-topic. I can agree to some extent with Cynthia's point regarding the time requirements, but I would like to offer my own experiences.

I have attended classes in "brick and mortar" institutions, and yes, I was able to transfer all of my credits in. The problems that I had in pursuing my educational goals in this manner stemmed largely from my demanding professional life. In many cases, driving an hour from downtown St. Louis to the campus was not an option, and I often took home more work because I would have to leave the office early in order to make it to class in time. I did not have any problems with these classes, and I worked hard to achieve my "4.0" GPA during that time, but I also invested a tremendous amount of time and effort over the course of 8-13 weeks (went through summer school as well, hence the 8 week course length).

As the economy has soured, I realized that I had to continue to pursue my educational goals. Last summer, I enrolled in the U of P online program, which I felt would be more convenient than the other "flex-net" program that would still require travel to a campus site. My experience thus far has been extremely challenging, but in MY opinion, personally rewarding.

Cynthia, I imagine that you were enrolled in either Gen 102 or Gen 300, depending on your transfer credits. I agree that this course is challenging, and honestly, at first it appeared to be a "waste of time", as the discussion was rather generalized, and did not focus on anything that I felt was academically pertinent to my goals. This class was really the only class that gave me that impression; my other courses have provided me with a wealth of pertinent information, and have provided me with information that I could (and have) used immediately in my professional endeavors. I have worked hard (as before) to maintain my "4.0" GPA, and feel that I have earned EVERY grade that I have received. I have learned from my classmates, and from my instructors. Much of this program is "self-directed." What this has meant to me is that I have had the opportunity to learn what I felt was most important, rather than focusing on every bit of information that was "spoon-fed" to me. I have skipped over reading assignments, or skimmed through to glean the pertinent information. I have also had quite a few sleepless nights studying for exams, or completing research for a paper. Ultimately, I can say with confidence that my writing skills, along with my professional skills, have improved tremendously over the past nine months.

Early on, I spent between 30-40 hours per week on class, whether reading, research, postings, or writing papers. That has decreased slightly, down to around 25-30 hours, but I spend the extra time because I want to get the most out of this educational experience. I spent just as much time on coursework at the local community and regional college level. Another aspect to consider: each class crams all of the necessary information into a 5 week period (6 weeks for graduate students), instead of the 13 week (8 week summer) course schedule at traditional "brick and mortar" universities and colleges (excluding accelerated degree programs, such as that offered at a couple of local schools).

With regards to classmates, after the second or third course, I found myself with a new group of people in each subsequent class. In fact, I have become very good friends with one of my original classmates, and we still keep in touch, and have the same class schedule, but are in different classes with different classmates. In every class, whether through distance learning or in more traditional settings, I have found classmates that I did not care for. I think that this is just human nature. There are no rules to state that you will be stuck with the same people throughout the next two years. If it is that difficult, you could have simply talked to your academic advisor and either skipped the break between classes, or taken an extra week break, which would have placed you into a different course track with new classmates.

Finally, financial aid, particularly federal student loans, are administered by loan service providers, not by the school. All schools provide assistance in obtaining the financial aid, but they are not responsible for assisting with the repayment of the financial aid. It is my understanding (and I could be wrong on this) that once you stop attending class, either because of graduation, or for any other reason (or, for traditional schools, if your attendance falls below "half time"), then you will have a 6-month "grace period" prior to repayment of your student loan. If you owe $1,000.00, then the University obviously gave you credit for withdrawing prior to the last day of class. Even in traditional schools, if you withdraw after class has started, but prior to the end of class they will issue a partial refund for the tuition paid. At the local community college, for instance, if you drop the class prior to the first day of class, you are entitled to a full refund. Any withdrawals after the first day of class are based on a graduated scale, so you may only get 50% after the second week of class. Student loans are the student's responsibility, and the rules governing these loans are detailed at the U.S. Department of Education website (www.ed.gov). I have reviewed these quite a bit, and have also continued to monitor the status of my loans through the NSLDS (link on the DOE website). I know quite a bit about credit, and I would recommend that you contact your loan servicer to see what can be done. In many cases, particularly with student loans, timely payment over 12 months will restore this account to a positive account, and will remove the negative payment history. Servicers of these loans can (and in many cases will) work with you to restore these accounts to a positive nature. There are a number of credit sites out there, including Creditboard, Creditnet, and Creditinfocenter, which can provide some guidance on how to address student loans, and how to turn them into a positive accounts.

Before anyone offers a negative response to me regarding my post, please refrain. I am not here to bash anyone, and I have just wanted to share my own experiences and research on the subjects that Cynthia brought up in her original post. Every person has different methods of learning, and every person requires a different educational structure. Brick and mortar schools do not work for me, and I am quite pleased with my progress thus far through the U of P program. I am an actual student, and if anyone wants to email me privately to ask me questions (or if you must bash, to bash), please feel free to do so. I consider myself a professional, and hope that I have accurately conveyed my experiences.

Sincerely,

#33

Consumer Comment

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My own research - University of Phoenix double alumnus, Howard A. Schmidt

Christy - Phoenix (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

I simply did a search online on prominent University Of Phoenix graduates. This is one of many articles I found. I have no opinion either way about UOP. What I wanted to find out was simple and as follows:

1. Credibility: How is the degree looked at?

2. What is the graduation rate?

3. Cost vs. other Graduate Degree Programs

4. What a graduate would say about the program.

Please look at what I found.

July 17, 2003
University of Phoenix Has Largest Graduation Ever

More than 2700 graduates, along with 5000 family members, will converge on Phoenix to attend the largest graduation ceremonies in the history of the University of Phoenix's Online Campus on Friday, July 18th and Saturday, July 19th at 11 a.m., at the Phoenix Civic Center. At the event, University of Phoenix double alumnus Howard A. Schmidt, Vice President and Chief Information and Security Officer of eBay, will deliver the Commencement Address. According to Brian Mueller, CEO of the University's Online Campus, "We are very happy that Howard Schmidt agreed to return to his alma mater to speak at our 14th commencement exercises as our first Commencement Speaker. It is exciting to have someone who attained so much success in his career as a double alumnus of University of Phoenix. We are also delighted at the huge turnout at this year's graduation and applaud the hard work and dedication of the graduates. Many of them made major personal sacrifices to achieve their goal of higher education and to venture to Phoenix for this special occasion. It's wonderful to see them at the graduation surrounded by family and friends who all join in their well-deserved celebration."

Mr. Schmidt, a double alumnus of University of Phoenix, will provide his own insights on how the University of Phoenix helped him attain his own career goals and achieve success. Says Mr. Schmidt: "I am extremely honored to be the University's first commencement speaker. It is a privilege for me not only being an alumni of both the undergraduate and graduate programs, but because of how the University of Phoenix has used Information Technology to be a true enabler of education and collaboration in a real world environment. My education at University of Phoenix and the many skills I learned and developed, as well as the skills conveyed to thousands of others, have provided the leadership tools to succeed in the real world." Mr. Schmidt will speak to the audience at both commencement ceremonies to accommodate the crowd of graduates, family and friends of the country's largest private university, with the largest online campus. Attendees are coming from as far away as Malaysia, Alaska, Lebanon, and Egypt. In addition to students and their families, approximately 180 faculty members are also expected to attend.

University of Phoenix students are different than their younger counterparts. They are 35 years old on average, work at full-time jobs, and two-thirds have family responsibilities. The University's Online Campus offers an opportunity for these students to continue learning and gain new skills without disrupting their careers.

In May 2003, Mr. Schmidt retired from the federal government, having served the U.S. government for 31 years. Prior to assuming the position of Vice President and Chief Information and Security Officer at eBay, Schmidt was the Chair of the President's Critical Infrastructure Protection Board and the Special Adviser for Cyberspace Security for the White House since December 2001.

His previous occupations include positions with Microsoft, the Air Force Office of Special Investigations (AFOSI), the FBI, the Chandler Police Department in Arizona, and the US Air Force. He established the first dedicated computer forensic lab in the government and is recognized as one of the pioneers in the field of computer forensics and computer evidence collection.

Mr. Schmidt has testified as an expert witness in federal and military courts in the areas of computer crime, computer forensics and Internet crime and has also served as the international president of the Information Systems Security Association (ISSA) and the Information Technology Information Sharing and Analysis Center (IT-ISAC). Mr. Schmidt holds a Bachelor in Business Administration and a Master of Arts in Organizational Management from University of Phoenix.

University of Phoenix Online is the leading provider of online, distance education for working professionals. University of Phoenix began operations of University of Phoenix Online in 1989, positioned among the first accredited universities to provide college degree programs via the Internet. University of Phoenix is the nation's largest private university.

#34

Consumer Comment

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New Student to UOP

Steven - Aurora (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

At first I was a little shocked at some of the peoples posts. Then as I began to read them all it became quite clear that many of them let their emotions speak way to load for them. As for myself I recently enrolled in UOP even after reading all these posts. Why some of you might ask? Simply put for convince. I am a High School grad with no previous Collage work.

I have reached what I feel is the height of my career. I work for a finance company and am paid well in fact I am one of the companies top producers and earn more than most the collage grads I work with. Many of who are bitter that I have even attained a position that took them a collage degree to get and still manage to earn more than them. I have a strong belief that you get what you give.

Every day I go to work and give 150%, I do not call in sick to simply have a break from work, I follow all state and federal guidelines associated with the industry and many of the collage grads that work with me turn to me when they don't know how to get things done.

I earned my position starting out as customer service 6 years ago and worked my way up by hard work. I suppose my point is it's the same thing in everything you do. You cannot expect to get more from something if you are not willing to give more to get it.

The reason I have decided to attain my degree is many of the managers said I could be their boss with all my knowledge if I only had a degree. So that's what I'm going to do. Get my degree and become their boss or maybe even a CFO I have the drive, the energy and the determination to do. Which I fell are key factors in everything you do in life.

Once again don't let peoples emotions sawed you in what you decide or do in life. Look at the facts and determine what is best for you. Look inside yourself at what kind of person you are, are you willing to give 150% in everything you do. If so their is nothing you cant do, including succeed in life with an online degree.

#35

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FYI... I am in awe

Cynthia - Danielson (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

I am the originator of this post. I am in awe over the twists and turns this post has made. When I posted, it was for the simple purpose of informing people that they need to look behind the curtain to see the all-powerful wizard. It was a place to post my horrible experience and to vent some of the rage I had over it.

MY experience was in no way a black mark against ALL online learning. The staff at UOP exacerbated MY experience. MY experience will not be everyone's. I am in NO WAY encouraging people not to strive for a higher degree. I was simply stating that future UOP students MUST be aware of the type of staff at UOP so they do not assume ANYTHING and so they will ASK A LOT OF QUESTIONS.

Thanks to the help of one of their counselors, he proved my point. In MY experience, their staff was not professional and their program was not for me. That will not necessarily be the case for everyone.

And as for the post turning emotional, it did so because a counselor at UOP decided to make it personal. He had no right to divulge personal information, nor did he have the right to belittle me. He was not MY counselor and therefore really had NO KNOWLEDGE of what had taken place. HOORAH!!! for him for wanting to defend his place of employment, however BOO!!! because he chose to do so in such an unprofessional manner. Obviously I was not alone on this subject. Many others felt it was a violation of my privacy rights and were also OUTRAGED.

And Steven from CO... I, too, am in the financial services industry and I am doing quite well. I wanted the degree to supplement my career as well. But one thing YOU need to learn is that just because someone stops doing something that is not working for them, it, in NO WAY, means they do not give 150% in their personal or professional life. You do not know me so do not assume anything. If your company (or yourself for that matter) started seeing a loss of productivity because of the current process in place, wouldn't you look for a means of improving the process? Wouldn't you look into alternatives?

UOP is not THE way to go, it is A way to go. I learned it way not MY way to get my degree; however I had to do so the hard way. As I said originally, had the counselor been forthright with the details of attending UOP, I would not have attended. THAT SIMPLE.

#36

Consumer Comment

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Clarification...The UOP counselor that chose to post personal information about you was very unprofessional

Steven - Aurora (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Thursday, July 01, 2004 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

I wanted to take a moment to clarify my thoughts on the matter since I did not spend much time ensuring that my previous statement was clear.

Cynthia I in no way disregard or take lightly the experience you had with UOP. It was by all means a very bad one, something no one should have to deal with when seeking a better education. I commend you on wanting to educate people to the fact that they need to ask questions and ensure they have all the fact prior to making a decision about their education. The UOP counselor that chose to post personal information about you was very unprofessional; there is no question in that.

In no way did I point a finger at you saying that simply cause you left UOP you had given up. It takes a strong person to survive and thrive in the finance industry; I am sure you are continuing your education elsewhere, and wish you all the luck.

My comment about giving 150% was more for those that might be scared to check out UOP or other online education by your 1st post. I agree, they need to ask a lot of questions and make sure they know what they are getting them selves into before they jump. But as you said, your experience was yours, and in no way can be taken as that's is the way the entire UOP or online education is. Like I said if you want an education and give 150% then there is nothing stopping you from doing it. Now traditional campus or online education, that is something every has to decide what is right for them.

I want to apologize to you Cynthia if you took my previous post as an attack on you or your character. I certainly did not mean it that way. Once again I wish you all the luck in you pursuit for higher education and in your career.

Out of curiosity what type of financial services do you do? I am in the Sub-prime auto lending industry. I deal with people and dealerships all across the US. Ahh the Auto Industry.. Now there is something I should post about. I am sure I could teach people about some of the key points to buying a car and selecting a loan. What to do and not do when dealing with sales men ... LOL.

#37

Consumer Comment

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UOP Online Graduate

Donna - St. Johnsbury (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Monday, July 26, 2004 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

I recently completed my Master's Degree at the University of Phoenix Online. My degree is in Adult Education and Distance Learning. I completed the program with a 4.0 average, even though it took extreme dedication and a lot of work.

I have read all the posts in this thread. I am appalled at the spelling and grammatical errors included in some of them (including the initial post and one response from an instructor). I would think that anyone posting complaints would make a modest effort to sound somewhat intelligent.

I will agree that Brandon was extremely unprofessional in releasing personal information on a student's withdrawal. Don't judge all the counselors by him, though. I had two academic counselors during my enrollment at UOP Online. Both were wonderful. My admissions counselor and financial aid counselors were great. I was given all the information about costs and team participation up front.

I remained with one classmate through the entire program. We experienced some difficulty with a teammate and an instructor during one class. Our academic advisors helped us through it and helped us change into a different section of the class so that we would not be subjected to the comments of the teammate again.

I had taken online courses as an undergraduate, both at the local community college and at a state university. I knew that online classes required a greater degree of dedication and more intensive work than traditional classes. I was somewhat disappointed about the business emphasis in some of the classes, but was able to apply that information to education. Online education returns what you put into it. It is not for everyone.

By the way, you don't have to log in twice a day. You can respond to two posts during one log in session. It still counts. Most of the instructors were active participants in class. The lectures were informative and their input was pertinent to the subject at hand. The experiences of other students was invaluable as well. We all learned from each other throughout the program.

Don't let one person's negative experience color your opinion. Talk to an admissions counselor and ask lots of questions. Read the information packet that is sent to you. My experience was extremely positive.

#38

Ex-Employee

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your degree, it's void as soon as you open the envelope

Ariana - Butte (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

Cynthia, I hope you are doing well, I can identify.

I worked for the university of phoenix about five years ago. I was in the Registrars offiice, the main building of UOP or (Apollo Group) which is in Tempe AZ.

Before I continue let me say, I just finished working a ten hour shift, and I don't claim to be perfect. If you enjoy correcting people and their grammar, spelling, ect. and then posting to let everyone know about it to prove how superior you are, become a professor, teach the minds of tomorrow and do something constructive.

IF YOU CAN UNDERSTAND ME TO CORRECT ME. YOU UNDERSTAND.

In my own experiences I always dreaded having to deal with admissions counselors.

The largest problem I encountered with them was that they would make promises that they couldn't keep, and call us asking for rules to be bent. This happened with matriculation, evaluation of incoming credits, diplomas you name it.
The vast majority of them had no clue about what we had to do, and waited until the student was irate to call and request a miracle.

I often wondered if they work on commission. That would explain a lot.

I sent an email because I wanted to get information from UOP about their online courses. My email was as follows, What online courses do you offer. With my contact information that was it. I expected a return email with my requested info, instead I have had a counselor calling me at least twice a month for the last five months wanting me to come down there.

For those of you attending currently I wish you all the best, here are a couple of tidbits for you in your journey.
If for any reason (even if a third party is rsponsible for your payment) you owe them 200.00 (since last I was employed) or more, you will NOT be able to attain a copy of your transcripts.

You also have to pay for them regardless of if they are for yourself or going directly to a university. A fee that I have never encountered anywhere else in my career or my education. You are told that you are entitled to a free transcript upon your graduation, this is true, it is sent to you with your degree, and is void as soon as you open the envelope. Good luck to

#39

Individual Responds

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Let's Be Real

Top - Corona (Afghanistan)

SUBMITTED: Thursday, August 05, 2004 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

The bottom line folks is that in any endeavor where you must deal with people, you will likely have negative experiences from time to time. This may be caused by personality conflicts, mistakes, inferior performance, or intentional deciet. Let's be real, you will have to deal with that at any educational institution, or workplace as long as people are employed there.

To judge the whole of any entity by the acts of a few, or in this case the experiences of a few, is a kin to judging all people by the acts of others.I am a police officer by trade and a UOP graduate student. In my profession, if I treated all of you as scourges of the earth based on my contact with the small percentage of crooks, thieves, rapists, and murderers that I come in contact with, you would scream to the heavens that it's unfair. With that in mind why are we making assumptions and accusations. It seems like an uninformed, emotional, rush to judgement regarding UOP.

If you don't like the institution, go somewhere else.If you don't like the people, go somewhere else. If you don't like the programs, go somewhere else. You have choices, and by all means do all of your research before signing anything and putting youself in a bind. (Common sense, the word of the day.)

Those proposing law suits are acting here as I suppose they act in life, particularly regarding their individual education, " something for nothing. Give it a break!

I have personally had a tremendous experience at UOP and both my undergrad and graduate degrees are highly sought after in the field of law enforcement and, in my experience, other businesses as well. I dismiss the notion that different is inferior. Different is just different so if it doesn't work for you get over it and move on.

Traditional schools have their place as do accellerated programs like UOP. Whichever you choose you have to take respnsibiulity for your own learning. To any of you who say you didn't get all the info regarding this or that, I say... "They didn't tell you where the bathroom was either but I'm sure you found it eventually."

Brandon may have made a mistake in your minds but who here hasn't stepped on it at least once or twice.? Let's be real and get on with the business of learning, whereever you chose to do so.

I may have mispelled a few words here but I'm sure you get the gist of what I'm saying.

#40

Consumer Comment

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UOP Does Not Accept Valid Credits

Sonya - Las Vegas (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Friday, August 06, 2004 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

I am currently enrolled with UOP. I had 70 credits, but UOP would only accept 50, as many of the credits were not applicable to the degree that I would be seeking from UOP. The counselor told me that it would take less time than a 4yr university to receive a degree so I thought I'd proceed with enrollment.

Once enrolled, the counselor contacted me to tell me I would have to take an English course, even though I already had credits for it from my previous university. I was told that because the English credits were more than 2 yrs old, I have to re-take the course.

Not accepting all of my credits was bad enough, but telling me there is a time-limit on credits is simply ridiculous.

In September, I will be enrolling into another Univeristy that does not have "Shark-Like" practices.

#41

Consumer Comment

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Reply to Sonya

Donna - St. Johnsbury (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Saturday, August 07, 2004 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

Sonya,

Many colleges and universities place a time limit on credits earned. Some will not even accept older credits earned at their school. I discovered this when I returned to school after a number of years. I really had to shop around for a place that would accept the majority of my credits.

Credits also have to fit into the degree requirements at most institutions. Sometimes, a school will allow a substitution if the student can supply a syllabus for the course in question. If it is close to a class offered at the new institution, it may be accepted. My daughter just graduated from Wellesley. She took a few classes at a Vermont State College while she was home on medical leave. Wellesley would not accept the credits until she provided them with syllabi and information on the classes. Then they gave her partial credit.

The University of Phoenix is merely following established practices. You may have the same experience with other institutions.

#42

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UOP DOES Accept VALID Credits

Julie - Glen Ellyn (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Sunday, August 08, 2004 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

In response to Sonja from Vegas, I just completed my Master's in Education and I can say that UOP does accept VALID credits. I graduated Magna C. Laude from Aurora University in Il. and they accepted my degree at face value. I was able to enter the accelerated master's of education program WITH certification program. The only thing with online courses is that you have to be TOTALLY COMMITTED AND ORGANIZED AS HECK!

If you don't call your back every other day to be sure that your finances are groovy, DON'T CONSIDER ONLINE EDUCATION. You have to be spot on about everything and more organized than you ever thought a person could be. Don't for a second think that this is a rinky-dink degree because you have to bust your hump to get through and they make it that way so that their credibility stands against all the others.

I have mild gripes about the college myself, but I also have mild gripes about the weather, get it? So if you're knocking the fact that it's tough or won't accept this or that, you NEED to blame yourself and not the college. Period.

#43

Consumer Suggestion

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Class action suit

Tracey - Charlotte (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Monday, August 09, 2004 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

I too have been ripped off by UOP.

I am definitely interested in a class action suit.

Let's put the bums out of business or make them at least pay for their unethical practices?

#44

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Still enrolled, and still pleased...

AJ - St. Louis (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

As I posted over six months ago, I am a current student, and I am quite pleased with my overall experience at University of Phoenix. I noticed that the discussions has essentially turned towards the acceptance of incoming "transfer" credits from other institutions. In all honestly, most schools have a ceiling as to the maximum number of credits that can be transferred in and applied to any specific degree program. This is a business decision in many cases, but also one that has some ethical substance. For instance, suppose that schools did not have such policies. If credits for courses taken were universal, one could theoretically take classes at the least expensive, and least recognized college or university, transfer to a more well known school, take the last class to complete the degree requirements, and essentially have the degree from that school. So, you attend the University of Missouri, Columbia, and transfer to Harvard for that last class to get your degree. Sound impossible? Not if limits were removed...

I was able to transfer in all 3 courses taken at the community college level, and just recently had my active duty courses (USMC) evaluated. Did they take all of my military credits? No. Nor did I expect them to. In fact, I wanted simply to use these credits to satisfy my elective requirements so that I could migrate towards my core Upper Division courses a bit faster. To find out that they took 6 more credits was a welcome surprise, but one that would not have made an impact on my decision to continue attendance.

With regards to the English courses that were not accepted, did you talk to a counselor about proving your proficiency? I was able to transfer a math course that was well over 5 years old, and also successfully completed the proficiency exams for both math and critical thinking, allowing me to satisfy these requirements.

#45

Consumer Suggestion

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A real school?

William - Las Vegas (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Saturday, August 14, 2004 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

****BELOW IS A GREAT STATEMENT BY KATHY!****

Save your money, go to a State school or a REAL private university which truly provides real education, does research, and is a credit to the community. UOPhoenix is not.

Kathy - Phoenix, Arizona
U.S.A.

By the way, your capitalization and grammar needs tending.
________________________________________________

State school, real school, do you even know what you're talking about? What is a real school to you?

I assume the Harvard University Master's program is "not real" because it is DE based, don't be foolish, its Harvard right?

It seems that you my dear need to go back to high school to learn how to conduct proper research on a given subject. The information you have submitted here needs proper research, and I give you an F based on your broad based stereotypical comments and no references sited. But you're used to that, right?

Readers: Before you come to a decision based on the comments submitted here, find out for yourself! Don't rely on someone else to make your decisions for you. Go visit or contact the school you're wishing to attend, directly. Don't let some of the stereotypical statements shown here alter your choice on education.

#46

Employee

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Tracey In Charlotte

NASCAR - Charlotte (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Monday, August 23, 2004 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

Tracey needs to be truthful. Some of what she says is true but it's not the whole story. She did not make team meetings, did not contribute on several of the team papers and was vulgar and offensive to her teammates at times. If you respond Tracey, notice I didn't use my real name, instead choosing the one you gave me ... keep it that way please.

#47

Consumer Comment

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Current Student On Campus

Gina - Tampa (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Monday, August 23, 2004 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

If you do not feel that University of Phoenix is a good choice online. I am a current student of the on campus program. This might be a good alternative to go back to school for people who are not able to handle online. As for everyone who thinks University of Phoen All I know it is the best way to receive a degree without going to a traditional school that will take longer since the classes are 8 or more weeks longer, you usually have to go twice or more a week and it doesn't fit into my work schedule. The classes are people who are typically 35 and older that puts me with my peers.

#48

Ex-Employee

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EX UOP Couneslor ..I can see both sides of the fence on this complaint.

Former - Somewhere In (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

First off, Cynthia, you should always thoroughly read all Financial Aid information. I know for a fact that you had to go through a online Financial Aid Counseling session that informed you of the fact that you would owe the tuition money immediately if you dropped out of school. If fact, it is very detailed and is written by the Federal Gov't (which is who your loan comes from...not UOP). On the other hand, I personally quit UOP because I thought thier education was a rip off. It is extremely expensive compared to the local universities in our area and the professors are sub-par (only required to have a Master's degree and can teach Master's level???? Please! That does not happen at the university in town...I graduated from there). I also thought that the fact that UOP does not require any form of admissions testing was unfair to the students. We had students that were horribly unprepared that were admitted and they went on to fail class after class. As a counselor our hand were tied, we couldn't tell the student that we didn't think they would "hack it" when UOP has no standards. Also, counselors are not paid on commision (meaning they don't get X ammount for each student) but do receive raises based on their numbers. There is no doubt that you were pressured into enrolling. Counselors are highly pressured to make numbers...whether or not the student is ready. I couldn't sleep at night when I was a counselor so I quit! As far as the tuition rates...you are paying for the online convenience.

#49

Consumer Suggestion

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Two Issues...One Pivotal

Robert - Fremont (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004

Dear Cynthia:

There seem to be two distinct injuries which you perceive to have been the victim of.

The first is your dissatisfaction with the institution itself. As we can see from the other postings, this is not uncommon. However, it is also very clear that satisfaction with the institution in not uncommon either. No one is never right or always wrong.

This point appears to be moot.

The second perception of injury, however, is clearly based on fact. That being disclosure of the fact that you suffered from a medical condition. This unethical, not to metion completely illegal and actionable offense, is both unprofessional and reprehensible.

I am currently retired from a 25 year career with the Superior Court Of California. I'm searching to find an appropriate institution for the purpose of completing a degree in social work which I would apply in a hospital setting.

I have not decided on a school and this incident would not eliminate UOP from my possible choices.

However, you should consult a well known local civil attorney and file a suit for the damages which the school's representative not only had the poor judgment to inflict in the first place, but then went ahead and documented it online for all to see even going so far as to use his real name. This goes far beyond the necessary criteria of "contractual bad faith" for an injury suit. Your attorney can explain to you the other damages and actions you may bring to bear in order to receive appropriate recompense of school expenses, as well as potential reporting of this illegal and cruel treatment to the appropriate county, state and federal authorities for potential prosecution of the both the insitution, as well as the individual who committed the crime.

Best wishes on both fronts.

Sick 'em, I'll be watching for future updates.

#50

Consumer Comment

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UofP Degree Transferral

Some - Phoenix (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Monday, September 13, 2004 POSTED: Tuesday, September 14, 2004

U of P,

I have read these posts, and while I certainly wish not to be involved in any of what I see as a topic gone seriously awry. I do have a question.

Is there any case of a U of P graduate student being accepted into any of ASU's PhD programs? post below so everyone will know.

Best regards to you all,

#51

Consumer Comment

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Student of UOPO ..These comments against UOPO seem really off-base to me.

Jennifer - Los Angeles (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 POSTED: Tuesday, September 14, 2004

These comments against UOPO seem really off-base to me. I don't understand where someone would get the idea that getting a degree online should somehow exempt them from working hard. I think people go into this degree program thinking it's the easy way out and that's just not the case.

I am a student at the University of Phoenix Online. I chose this program because I work fulltime and I work on the internet and it fits my way of life. I didn't choose it so that I could slack off and get my degree handed to me on a plate.

I had trouble with my instructor in my first class and I complained - LOUDLY. The response from my counselor, academic advisors and even higher up was very prompt and authoritative. I found the team environment trying at times, but once you get past your initial frustrations, you get together with people who match your style and it seems to work just fine.

Would I like to be sitting in a classroom listening to a top-notch professor lecture on neuro-pyschology instead of posting to Outlook newsgroups - of course! But I don't have that luxury anymore. I'm just glad that there's a program that allows me to receive a degree with some credibility and flexibility according to my already hectic schedule.

These letters sound a lot like the complaints of people who didn't do their homework before taking on a large responsibility. I did a lot of research, spoke to people who had attended, and was clear on the financial burden I was taking on. Shame on anyone who signs their name along the dotted line without acting like an adult and then taking their frustrations out on the institution.

#52

Consumer Comment

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Unethical Counselor

Anonymous - Boston (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 POSTED: Tuesday, September 14, 2004

First of all, everyone is entitled to their opinion. That is the great thing about living in this country. Second, I think it is unethical even in a rebuttal for a counselor to devulge that type of information as to the reason a student left the school (although I realize it was an attempt at perception control). Third, Brandon, you need to learn how to spell doctorate.

From an extremely content UOP student who has attended two great traditional universities prior to UOP and I am learning tons.

#53

Ex-Employee

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The truth about student recruitment at UOP online

Anne - Scottsdale (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Thursday, September 16, 2004 POSTED: Thursday, September 16, 2004

I worked for UOP Online as an enrollment advisor for almost 4 years. I have also worked as an enrollment advisor in private schools for over 10 years beyond my UOP experience. The simple truth is that enrollment advisors at UOP Online are sales people with quotas. Period. End of story!

From the very first week of "training" the whole content of the material taught was sales approaches. We role-played how we would talk students into enrolling, or "closing" them, on the first call. This included bullying, belittling, and whatever else it took to get the sale. We had to practice with managers before we were "released" onto the sales floor. We were told that if we followed the sales tool that UOP calls AMOPS, that enrolling students was "like shooting fish in a barrel". (AMOPS is a scripted qualifying script that even a baboon could follow to get a sale.) We were told to soft-peddle the tuition cost and to push financial iad.

We were initially given a list of 500 leads from the website. Each day we received about 100 new leads. Our day consisted of logging as many sales calls as possible. We were expected to make in excess of 100 calls per day, and to be on the phone talking to students for at least 4 hours of "talk time" each day. If you got someone to talk to you you hung on to them until they enrolled or told you to drop dead. Every morning the reports of how many calls we made and how much talk time we had was emailed to us from our manager. If your name was in red you better get your numbers up. Managers spent most of their time hassassing enrollment advisors regarding getting their call volume and talk time higher. Every day you were asked about how many enrollments you were expecting that day. If you didn't get them, you'd better have a good excuse.

We were also expected to conduct what was called "blitzing" at least once a month. This was a smile and dial routine where you made as many calls as humanly possible, to as many of your leads as you could, in a specified period of time. Blitzing was often done to bring in enrollments just prior to a big start. You have to remember that UOP promises huge numbers of starts each month to its investors, and we have to get them any way we can. The entire sales floor is nothing more than a huge call center of about 2000 enrollment "advisors".

We were also continually reminded that we had stockholders who were expecting big things from the university. The emphasis was definately on the profit we were generating, and not on the education that we were providing. We were told at almost every quarterly meeting how much profit was made and how UOP was going to drive all the competitors out of business. It is not by accident that UOp stock went up 11,000 % in the last decade. My perception was that management was drunk on the greed that was driving the university. The students have no idea how much money upper management is paid. It is obscene.

Most managers were given healthy stock options, and the opportunity to make a six- digit income if their sales teams were successful in exceeding quotas. Most of the managers were very young, uneducated people that had never dreamed of making so much money. They were not above shady business to succeed. Most had no idea how to manage. Oh, and by the way, they could make $55 a pop by hiring their friends and family to work for them. I know of several managers who pocketed an extra $10-12,000 per year that way. Eventually, HR put a stop to that practice. They could still get the bonus, but the new hiree could not work directly under them.

Things went from bad to worse during my time there. There was such a high staff turnover that students were constantly being shuffled from one advisor to another, most of whom were so new that they had no idea how to assist them properly. Often students went for long perids with no advisors assigned to them because the university couldn't recruit and train them fast enough. Many financial aid advisors made horrible errors in students' funding, and academic counselors were so overwhelmed that they were frantic.

Let me also mention that the academic counselors were in the only position that required a bachelor's degree, and they were only paid $22,000 per year to manage a caseload of 400-900 students each. They were only eligible for 1-4% salary increases per year. Many resented the money- driven enrollment advisors who slammed unqualified students into the school who created incredible problems for the academic counselors later on. It is little wonder that they often did not provide the customer service that students were promised.

I can also confirm that the vast majority of enrollment advisors have no post high school education of their own. I personally know that masters and doctoral degree seeking students are "counseled" for enrollment by high school graduates. The typical UOP Online enrollment advisor is a 'twenty- something' who takes the job to get a free education and hopes to make the big money that enrollment advisors are promised if they get their numbers.

Enrollment advisors are recruited constantly by the university. They have run an ad in the employment section of the local papers continuously for the past five years. Almost anyone can get hired there. They need the bodies. They want to have 5000 enrollment advisors eventually. When I started there were about 150, when I left, there were about 2000. The quit rate is well over 60% because of the incredible stress to enroll mass numbers of students. There was actually a ridiculous practice that floor calls were given in order of who logged in first. There were enrollment counselors who were so desperate to get their quotas that they would actually log into their phones at 3 or 4 in the morning, and sleep at their desks hoping that they would get a floor call. (floor calls were from students that actually were calling the school for information and were considered high conversion leads)

Typically the enrollment advisors are brought in at about $30,000 per year and can make huge salary increases in a very short period of time if they enroll a lot of students. There are no commissions but the salary increases are permanent. My first salary increase took me from $32,000 to $54,000 in just 8 months. That is quite a motivation to sign up as many students as you can. No one is really concerned about the students, it is only about keeping your job and making money. I was guilty of it myself. There were many times I felt that a student I was enrolling was not suitable for the program or was almost guaranteed to be a future drop out, but I had to enroll them anyway. Managers would not accept you declining to enroll someone for ANY reason. I was told that it was not my decision to make.

I was as ethical as I could get away with being. Fortunately for me, I had enough experience in the admissions business that I was able to enroll enough students to keep everyone off my back without resorting to dishonesty. However, I remember enrolling several students against my better judgment. I have to live with that. One of the things that I hated was that I was expected to be unavailable to assist students after I got them through the first class. I will never know how many of my students ended up dropping out, got sent to collections, went into default, or bankruptcy as a result of my enrolling them into something they did not fully understand.

Recently UOP Online was fined 9 million dollars by the US Dept of Education for their unethical recruiting practices. The things I have discussed here are cited in the DOE report. Of course, UOP denies any wrongdoing and will simply pay the fine and move on. They have so much money that a 9 million dollar fine is not more than a hiccup on their financial statement. They have been fined before for similar issues, and just pay their way out of it.

Let me also say that I took one of the graduate programs at UOP and found it to be very lacking in educational quality. I have a master's degree from a traditional university, and comparing the two experiences is like comparing night to day. UOP's "formula" for each class is so predictable that as long as you put in the time you can get through it without any problems. Basically you write papers, answer discussion questions, and work on team assignments which are ridiculously non-effective. It takes a bit of time, but is really no where near as demanding as the degree I took prior. I can honestly say that I never read one of the textbooks, and I graduated with a 3.89 average. Go figure! Is UOP a diploma mill? Absolutely! Is it an accredited school ? Yes, but I suspect that the Higher Learning Commission of the North Central Association has been bought off too. Sad, because I really do not think that my degree from UOP Online has much value. I took it because it was free, and I wanted to be able to advise my students accurately and from first-hand experience. I am glad I didn't have to pay for it.

My advice to those interested in taking an online degree program is to really contact all of the other accredited colleges. There are many more today than there were just a few years ago. Even most traditional colleges offer a lot online nowadays. You have options. Do not let anyone railroad you.

I would suggest that you enroll at UOP only if you are not the one paying the tuition, you really need an easy program, have a lot of extra time, and UOP has a decent reputation in your area. Here in Phoenix, they are not thought of that highly.

I will get off my soapbox now. Since leaving UOP I have been much happier and less stressed. I sleep better knowing that I did not do any harm to anyone today for a buck. My last words on this subject are "caveat emptor"!

#54

Ex-Employee

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Information correction

Anne - Scottsdale (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Thursday, September 16, 2004 POSTED: Thursday, September 16, 2004

I mistakenly stated that the employeee referral bonus paid to UOP employees for bringing in their friends was $55. It was actually $500 per recruited employee. Other than that, I stand by my statements as fact based on my direct experience with UOP Online.

#55

Ex-Employee

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The initial reply concerning qualified faculty

Sam - Tulsa (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Saturday, September 18, 2004 POSTED: Saturday, September 18, 2004

Brandon stated, "We only hire faculty that have at least a Master's Degree in the field they work in." That's a lie because I know someone who used to teach there for Accounting. He did not have a Masters, and he told me you are pretty much buying your degree when you go there.

This is in reference to the Tulsa, OK location.

#56

Consumer Comment

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UOP, AS WITH LIFE, IS WHAT YOU MAKE WITH IT

Casey - Winston-Salem (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 POSTED: Tuesday, January 18, 2005

I am a student of UOP and am proud to say that I am very pleased. I have learned a lot. I learn a lot from all of my instructors and students alike. Sure, the college is a bit expensive but I'm willing to pay that extra amount because it is much more convienent.

#57

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MBA Graduate - UOP Online. absolutely stunned at some of the comments made

Brian - Jackson (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 POSTED: Tuesday, January 25, 2005

I've taken time to read through most of this rhetoric and must say that I am absolutely stunned at some of the comments made. I have degrees and certificates earned from both traditional and non-traditional institutions of higher learning. My bachelor's degree was earned at a HBCU that was regionally accredited by SACS and who's college of business was professionally accredited by the AACSB. To me, it can't get any better!

I graduated in Spring 2004 with an MBA from University of Phoenix's John Sterling Graduate College of Business and Management. The views I have about the education and experience obtained from my undergraduate alma mater, I also have for UOP. The quality teaching, in my opinion, is superb. Out of all the institutions I've attended, UOP was the first where I had the opportunity to take a course under the Dean and department chair of my program. As with him, most of the instructors carried credentials earned from REGIONALLY and PROFESSIONALLY accredited programs. They were professionals in their fields and many of them helf tenured professorships at other mainstream universities, even Rutgers. My legal aspects instructor was a former Circuit Court Judge. It cannot get any better.

I think the stigma associated with UOP and other schools alike is the fact that 1. people underestimate the value of its products and services due to it's "non traditional" or youthful historical nature and 2. many who enroll in its programs are looking for an easy way out so to speak and find just the opposite.

I think it's beneficial that UOP does not require entrance exams. However, because of comments like this, it may be necessary because many "learners" do not appreciate it. I've taken the GMAT and performed well on it. I decided to enroll at UOP because of my busy schedule as an Operations Manager for a publicly traded company. It paid off and I am thankful because I was able to travel, spend time with my family and friends, and complete my MBA in 1.5 years without transferring any credit. Regardless of the type of program, it's important for students, new and old, to realize that for every single credit hour, he or she must study three hours per week. Yes this is difficult when having other obligations, but this is the agreement that you make when you sign those documents. I had financial aid and the $30,000 spent for my MBA was done without regret. Enrollment was simple and it was because of a caring staff, REGARDLESS of whether or not they had to meet a quota.

I am 26 years old and am in my second quarter of my Ph.D. studies. The knowledge and experience I have gained from UOP is premium because it taught me self discipline, how to compare theory to the practical, and how to present a scholarly writing.

As previously stated I have attended several universities. Just like the ones I've attended, I cannot fathom a single institution in this great world that operates without flaws... especially when dealing with people and numerous personalities. Where ever you are, just make the best of your situation and do not be discouraged by the slightest obsticle.

#58

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Once you want information, they wont leave you alone

Tim - Beaver Dam (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Sunday, January 30, 2005 POSTED: Sunday, January 30, 2005

I work in Law Enforcement and work a rotating schedule and varying shifts. This alone, not to mention having a young family, does not make it possible for me to attend evening or even day classes, at my local State University, to complete my Masters Degree. A year or two ago I saw a flyer for UOP. I made the mistake of filling it out, seeking information, and sending it in. Since that time, I receive mailings and voicemails from UOP at least bi-monthly. I told one of the "Admissions Counselors" that we had a new baby at home and I simply was no longer interested in attending UOP, but may be in a couple years. He laid the quilt trip on me about "You dont have time to better your career?" and "You havent even talked to an Admissions Counselor, how do you know you dont have the time?" I simply told him that I didnt believe in doing things half assed and was no longer interested. The calls continue.

#59

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60 minutes tonight had a piece on several of schools mentioned on here including ITT, and U of Phoenix.

Nancy - Steilacoom (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Monday, January 31, 2005 POSTED: Monday, January 31, 2005

There are several investigations and law suits taking place now. So maybe SOMEONE has finally taken notice. Mr. almost PhD, see how far putting the U of Phoenix on your resume will take you.

#60

Consumer Suggestion

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Former UOP Student in Woodland Hills, CA

Ray - North Hills (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Monday, January 31, 2005 POSTED: Monday, January 31, 2005

I attended the UOP satellite campus in Woodland Hills, CA but did not finish the course. I will go back though just to get my records and transfer to a regular college/university. Back then, early 1990s, it is a little better compared to some of the postings. But don't give up on getting to your goals. It will pay off in the end.

By the way, what happened to Brandon? I think I saw him at the unemployment line.LOL.

#61

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Rebuttal to Mrs. Nancy. I have yet to experience any negativity.

Brian - Jackson (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Monday, January 31, 2005 POSTED: Tuesday, February 01, 2005

Nancy, don't be condescending toward me because I've managed to advance in spite of your experiences and/or beliefs. I did not see or hear anything about the 60 Minutes special that featured UOP. What was it about? Share with the class why don't you?

University of Phoenix has been on my resume and cv since the day my MBA was conferred. I have yet to experience any negativity.

Get yours like I've gotten mine. Don't blame system, but rather work with it.

#62

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I read the script from the 60 Minutes show

Brian - Jackson (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Monday, January 31, 2005 POSTED: Tuesday, February 01, 2005

Nancy, I read the script from the 60 Minutes show regarding Career Education Corporations. Thanks for bringing it to the blackboard's attention... it was very informative.

I think you presented a bias claim in your last post against University of Phoenix. UOP was mentioned only once and it was for a claim against the school for admitting unqualified students to boost admission. As a graduate of this institution, I have a problem with that, but it's not the end of the world. If you ask me, they should require admissions tests such as GMAT and GRE for admission into graduate programs. But that's another point.

If you ask me, there was no basis to add that in the article because UOP is not like the ones that got slammed in the story. In fact, UOP was only mentioned because it was owned by Apollo. There was no mentioning of Argosy, AIU, Walden, Touro International, or any of the other institution of that nature.

Unlike Brooks College, this story had absolutly nothing subjectively negative about University of Phoenix. Instead, it noted that the Western accreditation association stated that Brooks College A SERVICE INDUSTRY SCHOOL only had 38 percent graduation rate. Furthermore it outright guaranteed its students a successful placement rate. On top of that, it perforemed underhanded admissions practices.

I think that this article serves some greater good, just not for the picture you're trying to paint about UOP.

Regards,

#63

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Education fraud is no different than any other type.

Paul - Anaheim (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 POSTED: Tuesday, February 01, 2005

Fraud is fraud. You are promised one thing and sold another.

I saw 60 minutes yesterday.

Here is the problem. Trusting people are being told that a facility has the education they need to land a certain type of job. That's the representation made. Further, the prospective client is informed of a stellar rate of success, both for the facility as well as its graduates.

Based on that, many people commit. There's the mistake. Based on what a salesperson is telling them. You never take the word of a salesperson who is trying to sell you something. Do you think they might have a bias? After all, your purchase funds their paycheck? DUH!

Talk to employers. Ask them where to get the education you need. Talk to people who are currently working in the industry your desire. Don't take a salesman's word for education.

The reason the feds are involved stems from the fact that these idiot students are obtaining government-backed funding. When they default, the government loses. That's why all the interest.

All fraud can be distilled down to a few simple concepts. Gross misrepresentation is one of them.

#64

Consumer Suggestion

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2 More UoP Courses, University of Phoenix is outstanding.

Jeff - Frisco (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 POSTED: Wednesday, February 02, 2005

I have placed two years of my life in working toward my MBA through University of Phoenix, while a business peer of mine was getting his MBA at a local Texas University.

Our courses were similar, as were team assignments and class discussions. The main difference is that I have a lot more typing and reading to do instead of "listening" in a physical classroom.

It has been extremely difficult to friends and family and at times I have missed a day of work due to a heavy assignment. However, so has my peer who went to a physical environment. I even know of people who have divorced over this situation.

My enrolling officer explained that it would be a very tough challenge and she was correct. I have had great response throughout this journey with Tech Support as well as all of the various services offered.

An MBA should not be something everyone should go for. It means extensive personal sacrifice.

Lastly, my senior Director (a major Fortune 500 company) told me that he considered terminating me two years ago, but has seen such a massive change in my critical thinking skills and problem solving as well as knowledge in all areas, that I am now almost too good for the department. He's assisting me in finding a job at the next level this year.

University of Phoenix is outstanding.

#65

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University of Phoenix was a great experience for me

Rosemary - Glen Ellyn (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Sunday, February 06, 2005 POSTED: Sunday, February 06, 2005

I think that Cynthia was not ready to WORK. I just completed my degree from University of Phoenix and the whole experience, while difficult, taught me so much. Obviously Cynthia did not read the syllabus or any of the required readings and research. Had she done so, she would have indeed been "taught something". Because of UoP, I was able to hold down a full time teaching job, run a high school yearbook, and attend all of my children's functions. There WAS a lot of work...I devoted 1 to 2 hours a day on my classwork. I was also told by my peers in traditional schools that I was doing a lot more work in my program than they were, but I was GLAD. I wanted to learn- not sleep through class! I feel bad that UoP is getting this bad publicity and I suspect it is coming from places that are feeling a budget crunch. UoP is the fastes growing national university because it caters to working adults like me.

#66

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promises not delivered - the University of Phoenix way

Kirk - Flagstaff (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 POSTED: Thursday, February 10, 2005

I tried the online class after attending a local sales pitch. Promises made included completing my degree in less time than attending a ‘traditional' university, better education thru their unique approach, and creative financing. None of this was delivered.

The education online with UoP doesn't compare to a traditional education. I am now attending a major university where I am taking 10 credit hours this semester, hoping for 12 next. I also work a full time job in the same field I'm studying. While I do have couple of late nights, it's usually just from being ramped up from class. During my short time with UoP online I was unemployed, I could easily see how much time ‘one class at a time' would really suck away from me.

The online math test was a class assignment, I was not prepared for an hour tutorial, nor was there any indicator this was anything more than a class assignment. Turns out this is was the only math placement test, could not be retaken. I had quite after like two hours as it was late and I had wasted an hour on a tutorial about taking this test. I wondered if a retake wasn't possible as it was a reasonable policy or another way to take more money from me by making me take additional classes I don't need.

I didn't learn anything with UoP online except that slick sales people get sales, deception is a good business practice unless you want/need repeat business (like used car sales), avoid answering customer questions if they may cause customer to think twice, and that the administrative staff can't read (really, can't read) and wont help. When voicing some of my concerns after being jacked around, I was told by Shetal to ‘put a little effort into it' (take my money and insult me, WTF), on my request provided her email address, their email server rejected my concerns and bounced my email – I later confirmed the email address as being accurate, but no explanation on why their servers rejected my email.

The benefits of attending a real university includes: reasonable/straight forward tuition, real education, real instructors, straight answers, real recourse to resolve concern/conflicts, not UoP, and most importantly young hot chicks

#67

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Kirk, I hope this helps.

Brian - Jackson (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Friday, February 11, 2005 POSTED: Friday, February 11, 2005

Kirk. I understand your plight but I do not agree. University of Phoenix is a great institution. It's accredited by the exact same regional accreditation board as Notre Dame, University of Illinois, University of Denver, IU, Northwestern, and Purdue. THESE ARE CONSIDERED TOP SCHOOLS. They are held to the same standards and are accountable for insuring its students a quality and rigorous education….University of Phoenix included.

University of Phoenix just may not have been the school for you...especially online. UOP is an institution of higher learning for working adults. It does not focus on the basics, but rather offers a rigorous real world education. Just as on the job, you're expected to put in overtime in learning what you have to learn.

University of Phoenix states that MOST of its students finish their programs in a little as two years. That's because MOST of them come to the University with credits from other schools. There is no way a regionally accredited university is going to allow students to graduate without meeting the regulated minimum... no matter how bad they want the money. No matter what institution you talk to, the recruiters are there to sell the university and its programs. It is up to you to do your own research and make an informed decision prior to enrolling.

In my mind, University of Phoenix is a graduate instution. Just because it offers bachelor programs does not mean that it's suitable for you.... especially online. I recall you taking math. If you ask me, any individual at that stage of their education SHOULD attend a traditional university. That way they can be with a cohort that is generally unexperienced in a particular discipline. Accelerated programs, no matter what institution, expect students to be greatly familiar with topics rather be unaware. Traditional schools tend to TEACH the basics whereas a graduate institution like U of Phoenix as well as any other graduate focused program GUIDE your learning. You're expected to be familiar with the material. You will learn the difference in graduate school. The same goes for Union Institute & University, Penn State, Regent, University of Arkansas, University of Alabama, Mississippi College or any other institution that offers online and/or accelerated programs.

A fine example is Walden University. Walden is a graduate distance learning university that recently (2003) began offering bachelor degrees. Before then, it has been conferring doctorate and master degrees for over 35 years. It too is accredited by the NCA and even though it has had success graduating undergraduate degrees it focuses mostly on practical graduate and doctoral intense research education. Besides learning at a distance, there's a chance to also meet hot chicks because in many of their programs there is a residency requirement that offers opportunities to reside on IU or Georgia State's campuses as well as live in their dorms.

Online learning is difficult at any education level. It takes a great level of discipline as well as an exceptional educational foundation. That's why MOST online programs are offered for students OVER a certain age.

I am not a paid spokes person for UOP. Instead I am a satisfied MBA graduate. University of Phoenix has hundreds of thousands of students and graduates. The negative comments listed via this blackboard are no way indicative of the institution's quality or reputation. Heck, I've heard similar remarks about my alma mater, and it carries some of the highest designations offered in this country.

Good luck in all your endeavors.

#68

Ex-Employee

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UoP (Especially Online) is a HUGE scam!

Jennifer - Sweetness (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Saturday, February 12, 2005 POSTED: Saturday, February 12, 2005

First off, Smooth move, Brandon! I hope your firing went OK and that the DOE proceedings weren't too harsh when you were fined for using CONFIDENTIAL information for SCHOOL USE ONLY in your rebuttal. I hope it was worth it. I'm sure that UoP really appreciated it, and I'm sure they showed it by letting you go (out the door, that is).

Listen, I worked for UoP in the Online division as an Enrollment Advisor (not much advising actually happened, though) for 3 years. I'm not disgruntled by any means. I was one of the top performers (yes, it is a SALES position, and they bill it as such) in the department for a very long time, and I also completed my degree on the house. Now that I've left there, I can't say enough about how shady and deceptive the sales, uhhh... enrollment practices really were. Yes, I saw the whole "boiler room" environment, where as many as 50 EAs were kept in an old breakroom for 30 days at a time, and if their numbers (sales) didn't increase, they got canned. I also was dragged into my "Enrollment" (Sales) Manager's office (bitch!) several times, even though I was one of the TOP EAs in the COMPANY to tell me how much I needed to increase my enrollments if I wanted to keep my $55,000 a year salary. Yes, they changed salaries on their EAs if their numbers didn't stay consistent. This was their convenient way around paying commissions, which would be illegal and subject to stiff fines and sanctions by the US DOE. I would imagine that this is why I received a notice that I'm part of the class-action suit brought against UoP for unfair labor practices.

All I can say is this. If you've gone to UoP, you may or may not have a great story to tell. Many people find this school to be great, despite the fact that it costs 4-5 times as much as a state school's online program. Others have nightmare stories to tell. As an alum, I can say that some classes were great, others really left something to be desired.

#69

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UoP SUCKS!!! I know exactly what you mean

Bryan - West Valley City (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Monday, February 14, 2005 POSTED: Monday, February 14, 2005

UoP sold me on an education where I'd learn a lot from home online amd it sounded great! The counselor said I wouldn't spend more than 10-15 hours a week doing school so I was all over that ebcause I already work 50+ hours a week and have a family so I wanted to make sure I wasn't overwhelmed. LIES!!!!!!!!!!

First of all, the class was more "Hi Bob, I liked your comment on this, I agree with you" etc etc, there was hardly any emphasis in the subject but more of a chat room! And the worst part was you were required to make so many of these useless stupid comments a day. To add insult to injury I found myself working 30+ hours a week just to get everything done in time. The instructor gave generic reviews and report cards adn seemed disinterested in the class. Everything he posted was obviously copied and pasted and I never got a personal reply from him. It's ludicrous to spend so much money for such poor "education." The worst part is, tuition is more to do it online, funny you would think it would be less considering their costs would be much less because they dont have to accomodate you in a classroom.

Well needless to say, I cancelled my enrollment and now they are trying to collect on me for tuition which I am adiment about not paying since I was blatently lied to.

If you want a quality education and not have all your time sucked up in school I suggest going somewhere else because these guys SUCK.

#70

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U o P is a MAJOR RIP OFF

Shawn - Los Angeles (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 POSTED: Wednesday, February 16, 2005

I am a current UoP student (who should be typing a paper right now), although I am not an online student. I wish that I had known these things before I signed up. The entire experience has been a ridiculous joke.

The "recruiter" who signed me up "reviewed" my transcripts and assured me that I would only need to attend 1.5 years and that I would be done by May 2005. They trick you into believing that by not putting all of the classes you need to take on your schedule. Today I have discovered that even more classes have been added to my schedule so I won't be finished until October! Furthermore, after signing up, I did not hear from him or anyone else until 6 months later when my financial aid was not coming through fast enough for them to get their hands on it. The so called initial financial counseling session that someone mentioned earlier consisted of a five minute phone call. I signed up in Fall 2003 and did not even have a financial advisor until I demanded one a year later. Apparently, someone had been assigned who never bothered to actually do her job!

The forced learning team environment is designed so that the "teachers" don't have to try to answer any of your questions. It is clear that they are pretty hard up for cash because they try to teach as many classes as possible and work full time too! Often times they are unreachable outside of class.

Many of the students are completely unprepared for this type of environment and others in the learning team must teach them instead of learning more for themselves. The class time is spent with the teacher reiterating verbatim the bolded items from the book so I just stopped reading them (still maintaining mostly A's, nothing less than a B in all my classes). Also, when you do read the "books" they are only segments of books. One class might, for example, consist of a book including chapters 2, 5, 9, 13, and 20. Many times there are portions of a book that refer to another chapter that is not included in the "BOOK" that UoP provides. And why is the textbook fee a mandatory $50 from each student for something that is downloaded (its not like paper is being wasted) and is not even a complete book! They are definitely getting their return on investment on that!

I found that I am not receiving much of an education at all. The textbooks are written in very simplistic terms with vague descriptions of concepts that do not directly correspond with the writing assignments. The reading topics do not correspond with the writing assignments from week to week either. It's as if they just put a bunch of chapters together each week and let you figure out where the information is that you need. Your first week's assignment may be to read chapters 1-5 but the reading assignment might require information from the 3rd weeks reading.

For anyone still interested in signing up, think about this. My counselor explained that it is just like any other school with Xmas and Spring break and a break between each 5 week class. The only break that you get is at Xmas because as soon as one class ends you have to have a paper written and ready to turn in the first night of the next class a week later. How much since does that make? Also, an elderly student was failed after having a heart attack (at the school) because he missed more than two classes. He did not fill out the proper leave of absence paperwork because he was in the hospital!

What is probably even worse is that at the location I attend, you don't even get an academic advisor. I was told that whomever answers the phone is my academic advisor. That's comforting! This school is such a big rip off. This entire experience has been torture. I've lasted this long because I figured its only 1.5 years. Now 3 more months have turned into 8. And to top it off I am now hearing about accredidation issues. I am completely onboard for a class action lawsuit!

I will definitely be turning my learning team (all of whom feel the same as I do) on to this website. Thanks ripoffreport.com!

#71

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Medical Privacy Laws?

Private - San Diego (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Monday, February 21, 2005 POSTED: Monday, February 21, 2005

Did I read this correctly? Is it appropriate for any educator staff member to divulge that a student might have, and/or be separated due to an alleged medical condition? Is having a medical condition a protected act and/or at least confidential in nature under ADA and/or other laws that pertain? Are there not protections for students and others who might be considered Americans with disabilities? Is it reprisal to divulge that the student might have a medical condition? Does it cause a hostile environment to divulge that a student might have a medical condition? Is it in essence harassment to divulge that a student might have a medical condition? Could it be argued later by the student that the educator caused at least in part the alleged medical condition that allegedly forced the student to separate? Is it emotionally distressing for any student to read via the internet that the educator divulged that he or she has a medical condition?.....I am not sure?

#72

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As a student.... Anyone who thinks they can 'pay' for a degree at U of P is very misguided.

Kristi - National City (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 POSTED: Wednesday, February 23, 2005

I am a student at University of Phoenix in their BSN program. Anyone who thinks they can 'pay' for a degree at U of P is very misguided. The degree you earn is worked for! People often think U of P's classes are abbreviated, they are not! They are accelerated. You must be willing to devote the time and effort to earning your degree at U of P just as you would in any traditional college setting. It takes motivation and self-discipline. When I finish my degree I will know that I have received the finest education possible and will go forth with pride. University of Phoenix does not even belong on this site! People who complain because something isn't just handed over to them are the real problem in today's society. Grow up and take responsibility!

#73

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Financial Aid nightmare at UoP

Patty - Portsmouth (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 POSTED: Wednesday, February 23, 2005

I am a current student at UoP Online. I am 3 classes away from graduation. I received a phone call this week that, 15 months ago, a mistake was made by one of the UoP employees involving my financial aid. Because of this, I now owe the school $6200.00. Apparently, my schools overlapped thus making me ineligible for the FA at UoP. There employees didn't take heed when the report showed up. Instead, they pushed my FA on through. WHERE on Earth am I suppose to get this kind of money. Here is the kicker though. Just yesterday, I received a letter, from another counsellor, telling me the money is owed because of "break in attendance". I have attended UoP, non-stop, for 15 months. One counsellor says it is because of a previous school, another says it is because of a "break in attendance". Hmmm. Until it is paid in full, no diploma or transcripts for me. Oh but wait..they are willing to set up a payment plan for me...how sweet. I shouldn't have to pay it all since their employee made the error.

#74

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Don't take for granted that someone else will follow through for you....

Kristi - National City (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Thursday, February 24, 2005 POSTED: Thursday, February 24, 2005

If I were you, I would be contacting my previous school and also those that loaned the money for my student loan. One of the first things that my financial advisor told me was that my student loan would only pick up one class at a time and that if I wanted to double up, I not only needed permission but I would be responsible for the financial cost. This included other college classes that I took under the loan.

When I began at U of P, my student loan was still pending and they would not allow me to attend class until my loan application was approved.
I was also told up-front by my enrollment advisor that I should expect to spend a minimum of 20 hours weekly on class related activities.
Class expectations are very clearly stated so those that were surprised by the amount of time they spent on class related activities must not have read them very carefully.
It's interesting the various experiences people have had. I was fortunate enough to get a very competent advisor and financial advisor.

I am sorry for the bad experiences but I would advise that when you log on to the student home page that you review your payment history. I have done this before every class. People want to believe that they can just get through without following through.... in today's world you have to be responsible and knowledgable because chances are that no one is going to take your hand and make you read the fine print.

Once again, I have had a wonderful experience with U of P. I have never been harassed or bothered and in fact, I took one year off when my mother died and was never bothered by U of P. I contacted them when I was ready to return to class.
It is starting to look to me that the majority of bad experiences seem related to shady enrollment advisors and poor financial advisors.... seems to be the luck of the draw.

Good Luck to you.

#75

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Looks like it's laywer time Patty

Bob - Quinlan (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Thursday, February 24, 2005 POSTED: Thursday, February 24, 2005

If UOP "damages" you because of their error, even if you really have to pay the money back, go see a lawyer and chances are the "bill" will disappear. You are "damaged" if you can't get work because they won't release your transcripts or you can't get your license for the same reason, etc.

Good Luck and good hunting.

Signed,

"Sharks have to eat too, you know."

#76

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It is all TRUE

Laura - Boston (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Friday, February 25, 2005 POSTED: Friday, February 25, 2005

I left UoP a year ago to relocate, but I can confirm as an EX-Academic Counselor that the place is a slum bucket. I began an MBA there and can also vouge for the lack of quality education. The fact is BRANDON that you probably don't even have a college degree yourself, that's right. In fact, the only postion for which UOP hires that requires at least a 4 year degree is Academic Counseling. The joke is on you people who think this is a real educational institution! Believe me, they are laughing all the way to the bank:)

#77

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Cynthia is correct - UOPO is substandard education

Kim - Lincoln City (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 POSTED: Tuesday, March 01, 2005

First of all, let me say, I am sorry to learn of your negative plight at UOPO, Cynthia. You're not alone because as a single mother and busy homemaker, I too was duped by what I thought was a wonderful education opportunity at University of Phoenix Online, but shortly after starting classes I was exposed to lacking and unethical instructors. Instructors who gave A's to cops in the class who had substantial grammatical and puntuation errors in their work. Students who misspelled words constantly, or whose overall presentation and format was lacking, in addition, were also given higher grades than persons of color. At least two of the instructors favored the Caucasian students in the classroom by giving them higher grades than persons of color -- African Americans, even though their schoolwork was more quality. The students in the classes were forced to "learn from each other" and forced to teach one another as it were. The instructors did not seem to value education or their positions as certified [?] instructors. I did notice the work of one other student who was African American. Her work overall was not of college level, so this person did deserve a lower grade. However, when I complained doors were slammed in my face. It seemed all they cared about was money; getting their money. Later, the confirmed to me that they would wipe the slate clean (tuition), however, I recently viewed my credit report. Needless to say, the debt was there. I did quit UOPO based on the lack of quality and ethical-based education structure there. Cynthia, I am interested in your class action you mention in your complaint, so please contact me ASAP. Thank you, qe@earthlink.net (Kim)

#78

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How can you... At any other time it was impossible to tell.

Steve - KNOXVILLE (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 POSTED: Tuesday, March 29, 2005

tell if the people are Caucasion or African-American if they are online? I am a recent grad and over the last 2.75 years I have only one experience of knowing a persons race in this environement; they divulged this information. At any other time it was impossible to tell.

#79

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I attended an information session in boston.

Sandra - Hyde Park (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Saturday, April 02, 2005 POSTED: Saturday, April 02, 2005

The lady that ran the session was very forthcoming. She told us that the department of education in our state did not recognize online degrees for certification. I did not need certification but just wanted to finsih a masters degree. I did not attend because of the cost and the problems that could result when you don't deal face to face with people. I am now attending a state school that cost half of what UofP cost and I only have to attend 2 late nights a week.

#80

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U of P in San Diego only made my life more difficult...

Christina - San Diego (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Monday, April 04, 2005 POSTED: Monday, April 04, 2005

When I inquired about U of P my enrollment counselor was very good about getting me in quickly because "there was no time to lose" and I agreed. However, once I enrolled he lost some of my paperwork and I had to go back in to sign. This was fine, because I understood that mistakes happen but, this was just the beginning signs of unprofessional and unorganized behavior from a staff member.

My financial aid check was cashed and not credited to my account. Therefore, I couldn't go into my next class until they could trace the checks or I had the option of paying out of my pocket for the next class. Then, I needed to change my degree. This was the biggest mistake. I had to fill out the that same Mktg Enrollment Form 4 times. I faxed it 2x and brought it in 2x. Finally, on the 4th time it was processed and I was able to get my courses in order. Then I needed to get a LOA for 35 days and that was lost. That's when I had it. If it was a my local bank or any other place I do business with I wouldn't have dealt with this but since it was "school" I dealt with it. Finally I was fed up and I quit. I hope to find a anohter school in the San Diego area that can help me finish my degree because I refuse to work with such an irresponsible company.

Also, today I was on craigslist.org and I saw job position for an University Enrollment Counselor/Sales. This is the link....http://sandiego.craigslist.org/sls/66526910.html. I don't think that it's right that enrollment counselors should worry about numbers. They should worry about quality and customer service to their future students. It really is such a shame I wasted $7K on that horrible school!

#81

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Give me a break!

Keith - Lancaster (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Sunday, December 11, 2005 POSTED: Sunday, December 11, 2005

Kim,

I have been a student with UofP for approximately 18 months. I will be the first to tell you just how inadequate many of their so called instructors are and how incredibly difficult the classes are with regard to the time required. However it is absolutely rediculous to even suggest that the online classes have even a single bit of racial bias going on. I have had at least 200 to 250 classmates and I never knew, or cared what race they were. That information is never revealed nor should it be. It is obvious to me that you are a person who has the race card at the ready and is not afraid to use it when you don't get your way. Please give me a break!!!

#82

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Getting back to the Original "Cynthia's Story"

Chelsie - Waianae (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Saturday, February 04, 2006 POSTED: Saturday, February 04, 2006

Hey Cynthia,

You are so right. Do you want to know what UOP told me about the "time needed" each day...1 hour a day. Yup, that's what that sales person told me. And yet I hear that there is 20-25 hours at least that needs to be spent in a week. Crap, that's nuts. I am a working parent too and I think I would have been really ripped off if I decided to go ahead with UOP. And getting back to your credit thingy...I am so sorry to hear that you have to pay back money to that school. Aren't they already rich? I also read other ripoffreports about UOP doing some bad things with the green paper we call 'Money'.

#83

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Cynthia et all who want to buy your education instead of work for it like the rest of us!

Jacque - Spring (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 POSTED: Tuesday, February 28, 2006

Seriously, anyone who has any common sense will know that it takes more than five hours a week to finish a class that actually takes a whole semester to complete. What makes you or anyone think that you could finish a semester's worth of work in five weeks by applying yourself an hour a day? Most likely, you heard rumors that students can "buy" their degree at UOP and you are lazy and thought you could buy yours too! Sorry sunshine, you actually have to work for your degree at UOP. The sad part about people like you is that you really do not understand the concept of ADULT EDUCATION. UOP is the best thing that happened to working adults (and yes you single moms, you are included). As a single parent of two young children who has attended the University for more than a year, I cannot find one thing to complain about EXCEPT THAT IT IS ALOT OF WORK but, I have common sense and I knew that going in. It is too bad that we all cannot get financial aid (let the government pay for our educations) and gives the financial aid to a University, watch the clock for a year or two then receive a degree. The world would be full of UNEDUCATED college graduates. Sounds like you planned to be one of those UNEDUCATED college graduates until you discovered that you actually have to have actually work for it. Good luck in the world, if you slack enough you just might make it to Assistant Manager at your local fast food restaurant or even better you have a good chance of becoming the head waitress at a hole in the wall bar or greasy spoon restaurant.

#84

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The Aristocratic View

Dan - Seattle (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Monday, March 06, 2006 POSTED: Monday, March 06, 2006

Online programs such as the University of Phoenix concern me a great deal. I have done a fair amount of research on the topic of their credibility. The truth is, employers who hold any weight (I know the operational definition of “weight” can vary) do not hold online degrees of any kind to high regard.

I hold a bachelors degree from the University of Washington and a Doctorate in Jurisprudence from Harvard Law School. To get to the top of any high profile career, it is almost a requirement to graduate from not just a regionally accredited University but also a socially accredited University. The majority of high profile attorneys have attended Ivy League law schools or schools of extreme high regard such as University of Chicago, Duke, Stanford, University of Virginia, UC Berkeley, University of Washington and so forth. Online degrees, to many of my colleagues are a joke.

I do not want to portray that people who enroll in online programs are somehow less intelligent than myself or students who attend high profile schools. I believe that many extremely intelligent individuals attend schools that cannot fully cater to their intellectual needs. I am sure this is the case for many individuals at the University of Phoenix.

University of Phoenix boasts four-year bachelors degrees that can easily be completed in only two or three years, and Doctorate degrees in the same amount of time. I remember how hard it was for me to get through my bachelors degree and particularly my JD at Harvard. Using my experience and my best logic, I can't faithfully believe that online Universities can fully encompass the rigor and profoundness of exemplary Universities in such shortened durations of learning.

I understand that for many working adults, online programs make the most sense. However, the direct outcome of attaining such degrees must be realistically addressed before enrollment. A University of Phoenix degree is not going to launch you into the highest ranks of socio-economics.

The tuition cost for online programs are comparable to what I spent at Harvard every year. Unfortunately the socio-economic regard is much higher for my degree than an online degree, even though tuition costs are comparable. I think you can draw your own conclusions from the prior two sentences.

Be cautious of any “shortcuts” in the education system.

#85

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I am amazed?.

David - Kalamazoo (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Friday, March 10, 2006 POSTED: Friday, March 10, 2006

...At the many angry and spiteful remarks I've seen in these rebuttals. A great deal of the anti-UOP sentiments here are misguided, hearsay, or just untrue.

Let me clear some facts up for anyone that does not understand what UOP is about.

1.The plain truth is, not everyone should pursue a degree. Those that are trying to and are having trouble (especially those complaining about the hard work) should be asking themselves this.

2.UOP is an accredited institution. This is no different than other accredited traditional or accredited distance education universities.

3.UOP is online and on-ground. There is also an option to do both.

4.UOP is for working professionals. Expect to be in the field that you are going to obtain a degree in.

5.UOP does not lend you money for financial aid. Get your facts straight.

6.UOP is not a university where you ?pay? money for a degree. You ?pay? for it with hard work. If you think that 15-25 hours of work a week is too difficult for you, you had better think about going to an ?easier? and non-accelerated school. If you are spending 50 hours a week doing homework, you might want to rethink if you are truly a candidate for college?any college.

7.UOP is not perfect. Can someone please tell me a school that is? If you believe that other traditional universities (including those Ivies and near-Ivies) is perfect, you've got a rude awakening coming. Read the newspapers and academic journals?every school in this country has problems.

8.UOP books and materials are not free. Please, someone tell me where I can get these for free? Can't? It is because there is no such thing. You pay for everything at any college (exclusive, inclusive, now, or later).

9.For all you victocrats out there that think that life is going to be easy, this is going to be a wake up call for you. You must manage your financial aid. You must manage your schedule. You must manage your expenses. You are working adults, why do you feel that suddenly a college should do this for you? When you find a problem, you must also rectify it yourself. Perhaps a movie theater will give you a ?free? ticket if things don't turn out?a school will not.

10.The same privacy laws that apply to other schools and federal and state regulations apply to UOP. This includes medical, financial, personal, and other confidential information.

11.For those of you that feel that an online education, training, and material access does not measure up in the fields that are being taught, check against the Ivy and near-Ivies League schools that have taken ?sudden? interest in recent years to move toward distance education. UC Berkley, Duke, Brown, Cambridge, MIT, Stanford, Harvard?and the list goes on and on?.

12.Writing papers, research, discussion, collaboration, communication, teamwork, and exploration is the mainstay of UOP. If you have problems with this, maybe you should choose a school that is ?easy?. The sad truth for you will be that in the real world, writing papers, research, discussion, collaboration, communication, teamwork, and exploration is being used every day.

Other casual and interesting facts that you can put in your wallet and bring out on special occasions:

?UOP is for-profit. What does that mean for you for you profit-minded professionals out there? It means that in order to stay in business, the University must provide a service. A business that fails to provide a service will?you guessed it?fail. UOP has not failed, and has in fact grown over 500% in just the last few years. In 2005, there were over 230,000 students. Sorry, but in my book that says that there is a rather high-demand for this education and that those that have the degree are becoming successful from what they have learned.

?UOP graduates are company presidents, CEO's, CIO's, COO's, and directors and administrators at high-profile companies. For anyone that believes that UOP does not produce a socially valued education, you might want to read Future Magazine (get it for free at www.futuremagonline.com) that publishes those high-profile UOP jobs.

#86

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REPLY on: What does that mean for you for you profit-minded professionals out there?

Rahul - Portland (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Saturday, March 11, 2006 POSTED: Saturday, March 11, 2006

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/08/11/60minutes/main772913.shtml

PLEASE visist the site above to learn about profit schools:

I agree with all the point of views of David but I disagree about the UOP for Profit is good. When someone invests money in stock market, it means they want to get rich. Not only to stay in business. They have to take care of their stock holders, investors and etc.
There is greed for money, and for Profit College admission advisers become car sales man/woman.

Students at UOP become dollar symbol because money investments in stock market.
There are private regionally accredited colleges which are non profit. Tuition money in non profit colleges are reinvested in college. Non profit in colleges supposes to mean no money in stock market.

I think big corporations like UOP runs in surplus.

#87

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A POSITIVE EXPERIENCE WITH UOP

Scott - Lewisville (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Monday, March 13, 2006 POSTED: Monday, March 13, 2006

I attended UOP in Colorado Springs (on-site). I received my BS in Business Information Systems and found it to be a very positive experience that provided me with an excellent education.

In 2003, I received my MS in Computer Information Systems at UOP (online). To be honest, it was more difficult than the on-site experience. Communicating via the web is not ideal by any means. However, I have reaped great benefits from the experience. I cannot speak to the problems with financial problems with the school that you have encountered, as I didn't encounter such. But, I will share a few points with those that are still considering the school.

1) I work with a Global company that conducts business with over 30 countries. In my particular case, I am on a team that consists of employees that work in Amsterdam, India, Germany, and Sweden. This is very difficult! I must correspond via the web, phone, teleconference, etc. I have noticed that I am far advanced in this kind of communication than my co-workers. The reason, I went to UOP online. The things you learn about communicating in a remote environment are nearly as valuable as the education itself. I am considered a leader in this endeavor.

2) I have been going to college all of my life and I feel that I have the knowledge to compare different types of institutions. I have a much easier time in the on-site environment. Talking directly with students and professors is much easier because immediate feedback is much less frustrating then posting and emailing. But, difficulty is not always a bad thing..(see #1)...with globalization, this has become an essential tool in communication.

3) It is important to set your goal and stick to it. I went to UOP online with a core of students that I knew all the way through. We learned to work together online in the same fashion I do at my workplace today.

I am extremely happy with my decision to attend the University of Phoenix. I am a very successful systems analyst and my company appreciates my degrees.

I'm not sure that a site called Rip-off doesn't already contain an implicit bias against business for those that frequent the site. However, I appreciate this site because anything that can help the consumer become more informed is positive in my view. The editor responses also help to level the playing field against inaccurate information and mischief.

For those considering UOP, I would suggest that you do your homework about financing your education, as well as the UOP business practices. I for one, had no problems with financial aid, adviser assistance, or any business problems in general.

It was a positive experience. I wish you all the best and please listen to all sides.

#88

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Read here how UOP treats military students!

J - Baton Rouge (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 POSTED: Tuesday, March 14, 2006

First of all, I am amazed to find such a long list of complaints about this "school". I am surprised, not because I don't think they are terrible, but because I had given them the benefit of the doubt and assumed that the Baton Rouge, LA campus was the only one that was this bad. It appears that I was sorely mistaken.

My education with UOP started when I was at a place in my college career where I had to choose between having a real job with a large local company or going to school. I had been going to community college but couldn't anymore because I wanted my BS and I had taken all of the classes that I could take there. So, I decided on UOP. My counselor told me all about how they would work with my schedule because they were designed with the "busy professional" in mind. I am also in the Air National Guard, so I was further assured that anytime I was called up for military duty I would get as much cooperation as possible from the school. I felt very good about my choice to attend UOP and started immediately.

I immediately started collecting student loans to pay for my UOP education. While I could have gone to a local University for free (via my enlistment in the military) I chose UOP because the class schedule was perfect for me. The military will not pay for UOP since it is not a state funded school, but that didn't matter to me.

I attended UOP from May 2003 to August 2005. In that time span there were MANY events that led me to think about leaving UOP and going to another school. One of which was an instructor that we had for two weeks, then never saw again. The students were actually told that the instructor was only in the United States on a student visa and was not legally employable in this country. I was in a college class being taught by someone who should never have been hired by UOP.

In August 2005 I received orders to deploy to the Middle East as part of a 4 month rotation with my National Guard unit. I notified UOP TWICE about this deployment, and I asked about what I needed to do prior to leaving, and they never told me a thing. I briefly discussed my financial aid status with my counselor but was never told that I needed to fill out any paperwork or anything. In the weeks leading up to my date of departure I ended up working very long hours training my replacement and I had a couple days worth of mandatory military preparation that I had to participate in. As a result of this extremely busy schedule, I was forced to withdraw from the class that I was taking at the time. I notified my counselor, she told me that she didn't foresee any problems with it, and I left for Afghanistan a few weeks later.

After I was overseas for about two months my wife started getting letters in the mail from UOP demanding that we pay an outstanding balance of $891.00. I exchanged emails with several people at UOP and was finally told that the balance was the result of a situation created within my financial aid when I withdrew from that class. They never could tell me exactly, without a doubt, where the charge came from. Instead I was handed one excuse after another as they began to threaten to send my account to collections if I didn't pay. I explained to them that I was overseas, which I thought they should have already known since I had ALREADY TOLD THEM, and they agreed to let me handle this when I returned home.

When I got home they again threatened to turn it over to collections when I managed to fight it enough to be appealed up to the financial director and whoever else gets to make a decision on these kinds of things. From time to time though, they will call and tell me that I should just pay the balance and come back to school and that we would try to work it all out then. I have told them time and time again that I will not do that and if I end up being made liable for this charge, then I will not attend another class at UOP.

I have attended a total of 19 classes with UOP and have maintained a 3.19 GPA with them. Each and every one of those 19 classes were paid for with student loans so this "school" has made a TON of money off of me. I went to war when my country ordered me to and this is how the University of Phoenix chooses to treat me when I return. How about that!!

University of Phoenix, along with EACH AND EVERY EMPLOYEE of the Baton Rouge, Louisiana branch should be very, very ashamed.

VETERANS BEWARE OF THIS SCHOOL.

#89

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Dont bring the Military into this - You are your OWN RESPONSIBILITY

Bambi - Woodbridge (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 POSTED: Wednesday, March 22, 2006

What does one being in the military have to do with *anything* - correct me if I am wrong, but being in the military myself, U. S. Marines (Semper Fi), we are taught to adapt and overcome. Is it different in the Reserves or National Guard? I highly doubt it ? you and I are no different from the rest of those who encounter similar problems. If you feel you are the victim, take corrective measures, the right way, as we are taught to do so, and fix the problem. Do not speak on behalf of the military as a whole ? please, that does not even make sense ? wouldn't you say?

Here is a brief insight ? at least, I will try to keep it brief and in bullet-form to keep things structured.

- Single Parent
- Military
- Student
- Started UoP in 2003
- Accepted 51 credits from my military education and certifications alone
- Aimed for the Bachelor of Science in Business Management
- No sales pressure
- I was the one eager to start
- Within 2 weeks I was in; I liked that a lot ? they kept up with me (something to wow about)
- By December of 2003, and 7 classes in, I received a 10 day warning order to go to Iraq
- I contacted UoP and sent them a copy of my orders
- I had no time to engage in anything else as I had to get my child to family outside of the state I was stationed in
- I had to pack up my house in a day over New Years to get going
- Deployed
- Contacted via email by a new Academic Advisor
- Wanted to know if I am still interested in staying with UoP
- Replied with a YES
- BTW, did I mention the two classes I was doubling up on did cost me a cent to drop?
- Oh, I had the orders to cover me
- I return from Iraq
- August 2004, I start back up with UoP
- At the time, I had close to 72 or so credits
- I thought to myself it only takes 60 credits for an AA
- Requested for an AA program
- Got the AA through Credit Recognition Program
- Remember the 51 credits accepted ? they spooled over to the AA
- I only had 3 more classes, 9 credits total to get the AA
- Guess what, those credits were electives I still needed for the BSBM anyhow
- Guess what again?
- I took the 3 classes, and they fed into both programs
- That meant, I paid for 3 classes, that got me results in 2 completely different and unrelated programs
- I did want a paper for a degree, but I was earning ? every step of the way through hard work and dedication
- By November of 2004, YES ? 3 months later, I received my AA Diploma
- The feeling was great ? why you may ask; because I wanted to secure my future
- Did I already mention I was a single parent? Ah, yes I did and a full time Marine ? hmm?lots of stuff going on one can imagine despite all else that life throws on a whim
- From August 2004 until February of 2006, I took an additional 20 courses
- I invested a lot of time, and restless nights making it all work out
- I doubled up, staggered, and did all what it took to get there
- OH I forgot to mention the Financial Aspect of things
- I used TA through the military
- Paid out of pocket for books
- Received the Pell Grant through the government
- All of which my FA was extremely helpful in getting me the required forms and adequate materials to make the process a smooth sail
- I just completed my BSBM
- Here I am 3 weeks later in the Masters Program
- I have been challenged in every way conceivable online during classes
- The work is very tasking
- But that would be because I exerted the efforts required to learn on my own accord
-
Those who expected to be baby-sat through life really need to take a look at themselves and see what it is they are failing in and fix the problem. No one is going to pick you up and feel sorry for you and help you. We are adults.

What is it that we teach our children when raising them?
What is it that we are taught as children by our parents?

Values, morals, and ethics will go a long way, but don't expect it to come to you without falling flat on your face a few times and feeling the burn from the wounds, aches, and bruises
Sure we are bitter people, we sit back and expect things to just magically appear ? why? Because we are paying for it? How often do we pay the price without actually using money to do so? How often have we been disappointed to the point where we question ourselves and our character ? and why do we do that?

Has anyone ever sat back and thought ? what is it that I can do to better myself and in the process be able to provide/offer others to benefit from? Sure your immediate impulsive reaction would be to think 'who is this person to make such an comment and what are theyt thinking?they don't even know me'. You are right ? I don't, and in turn, you don't know me either ? and what I mean by 'know' does not simply mean, know me by name, face, and profession, but truly know a person for who and what they are.

The answer to my own question is that comes with time, experience, age and maturity. Sure go ahead and take a dig at me, for bringing up maturity. I am sure someone will have something ever so nice to say about that word and will impose their opinions and thoughts on me as to what maturity really is as opposed to what they think I know for a fact it is ? how do I know? Well, because based on my life and upbringing, my definition of such a word will vary immensely when compared to yours, and the next person and the person after that.

My question would be, why earn a degree for others to commend you on it ? why not earn it and make something of yourself ? start a business, create an organization. Why earn a degree from anywhere to go work for others that are undoubtedly going to still piss you off, upset you, anger you, frustrate you, and cause you to find means and alternative measures to get back at them or make them taste a doze of their own medicine. Why not apply yourself in a manner that will just get you moving in a forward direction in all aspects of your life.

Only you know will the true benefits from receiving the diploma ? if you think just because you have the paper from a Diploma Mill, that you can walk on water, you are wrong. That is when the true challenges will occur ? those who do not measure up to you and envy you will find ways to bring you down with them. Your peers will challenge you and try to prove you inadequate, unreliable, unfit, or irrational, and those above you will either take you under their wing or teach you a few more facts, or will just shun you. Giving you more of a reason to strive at being better if not surpass them and you can be the one looking down at them and not on them.

Reality checks here, people ? seriously. What is it that you want to be remembered for? Your achievements, success, and perseverance or, your nagging, whining and utterly unstable mindset that has you yo-yoing back and forth in life, thus causing you to lose whatever little credibility your have left amongst those that know you.

Keeping it real ? there are much worse things in life to worry about. UoP is here for the long haul and they are enjoying the profits, while most are here griping about matters of the past. Take charge of your life, make goals, create a plan, have a back up plan, and have at least 3 different options for every goal you have. No one is going to the grave with their money tucked in their best suit. We are all going to turn into bones and wither away.

Now a big group hug ? whose in? I promise I use deodorant, brush my teeth and shower at least twice a day :)

#90

Consumer Comment

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Supposed to start UoP this week

Rob - Grass Valley (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Sunday, March 26, 2006 POSTED: Sunday, March 26, 2006

First I would like to say thank you to all the people that have taken the time to post here. It is often difficult to get the time to do so and those that do to help others are very much welcomed. I come here to get insite and candid experiencies (not rhetoric) to help round out my understanding of UoP before I make a serious decision concerning my future (and pocketbook).

Myself: I am 39, male, married, 20+ years as electronics tech and looking, like many, to find an effective way to get the necessary education to get ahead in the complex world these days and yet still fits in with the busy schedule of a parent, and a working professional.

Personally I find it disturbing that many of the posts here are missing the point: the real issue is getting the education that is valued by employers, and getting something of value for the money spent. I can't stand the posts that simply put it all on the student and slap them with the title of "lazy" or not willing to do the work. Here in this forum you are either lazy or UoP is wrong and I find that disturbing. And, anyone that has taken the time to read through these posts as I have will see that there is definitely a pattern with UoP's performance. Here is what I have noticed from the posts here with regard to UoP:

-Easy grades
-lackluster cirriculum
-unprofessional employees
-questionable credentials of instructors
a desire to make the company's bottom line with less emphasis on the product provided
-surprise additions to course schedules
-less than professional (or at least some concern) courtesy for military personell

Where are the posts that say how well your degree will be received by employers? Where is the concern about what quality of an education you are getting for your money? I don't know about you all but I can't afford to do it all over again...

If you are as old as I am (don't go there) you probably know that the corporate world is far from ethical (can you say Enron?). The bottom line $$ is the final word and if you have ever worked for a corporation (I have worked for many over the last 20 years) you know how things work (ever see the movie "office space"?)and understand what I mean. The point here is that that instutitions of higher learning have no business being in the corporate world. This leads to conflicts of interest (the easy grades and lack of any placement exams sure make sense in this context).

The reason I am posting (and waiting for the associated slam of flame mail) is that I am about to attend UoP in Roseville, CA. I am supposed to start in 5 days and here is what where I currently am:

I have no idea what books I am supposed to have for the first class
I have not recieved any hard copy documentation of my contract, class schedule, financial aid or other obligations
I have no idea what time or which class room I am to attend
I have no idea of what the credentials of my instructor are
I do not know what class I am supposed to attend
I was told that I was supposed to have attended a class orientation several days ago that I missed and my rep was "very disturbed that I didn't attend". I was not informed of any orientation and I WOULD NOT HAVE MISSED IT BY ANY MEANS (come on flamers, we're talking money here).

I can see the posts forming like "Why haven't you taken the extra measures to know what is going on?" This is a common issue on these posts: Your UoP rep often tells you all these thing that you want to hear (I am finding out) that they will do "everything", that "this is not like the other colleges you have attended before where you had to wait in lines to get your classes and had to do everything" (Believe me, I have done my share of doing what I needed to do to get classes at other colleges) because they "will do it all relieving you of these problems so that you can focus on your education and work" and raise your families, etc. (the quotes are what I was told by my UoP rep, verbatim.)

The things I have read on this site have made me decide that UoP is not for me. I have gone to other schools. I have even had on-line learning experience at several tech schools. You can try to claim what you want about me (lazy or whatever) but it is all too obvious to me at least. Reading for several hours here on this site has really opened my mind to the practices of this "school". I think anyone that is really committed to getting the very best education all things considered (remember this is what it's all about) ought to look to a school that has YOUR interests more at hand instead of the company bottom line.

If you have actually gone to one of UoP's facilities you might get a clue that things just don't seem right. I didn't really quite notice until after I left the Roseville, CA "campus" that I got a real "fly by night" feel for the place. I can't qualify it, sorry and I'm sure I will regret mentioning it from the return posts, but it is something that only personal experience can put a finger on. Also, when looking at the other posts by past employees, and the commonality of the experiences (coupled with the obvious pressure of the rep) that there is a serious problem with UoP's system and that obviously these former employees are not making this stuff up.

So, just to re focus my post:
those that are in the know about UoP, keep up the good work and keep informing those that have gotten duped (myself almost). To those that just want to throw in the rhetoric, too bad you have not joined the informed ones. It's not too late to find out the truth. Yes, it does exist... Remeber that people actually visit these sites to get informed and not to just flame.

As to the UoP rep that divulged confidential info here (shame), insn't that a priceless view into the level of professionalism of the company? Would YOU feel comfortable with him as your rep for something as important as your education (at $50k)? It's something to think about isn't it?

Ok, forget all this and humor me:

If you do a Google search "University of Phoenix sucks", you get quite a few hits. But if you do a Google search on "Sxxxx sucks", you get nothing. Is this significant???

I will be looking at places like Sxxxx. Think of it. Maybe there IS an opportunity for us that fits with our needs, our schedule and has POSITIVE feedback instead of websites dedicated to complaints.

Is it really that difficult to see throught this?

Thanks again..
~Bico

sorry, …allowing you to give a competitors name would instigate others to just file against their competition, to only come back later to suggest their company… your comments on this policy are welcome! CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.

#91

Consumer Comment

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UOP Student's point of view (Good and Bad)

Ken - NotGettingAddress (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Sunday, March 26, 2006 POSTED: Sunday, March 26, 2006

This is long, but worth the read if you are researching UOP.

This thread has captured my attention for about an hour now. I read nearly every post. Why am I so interested? Well I'm a current UOP student set to finish in Jun 06 and I wanted to see what the ideas of people were about UOP today as when I started. Not much has changed.

I think it is important to note that this thread is nearly 3 years old. I started at UOP in 5/2002 stopped at then end of 2002 and took a two year break until 2004 and as I said will finish in a couple of months.

I have seen a lot of changes during this time and wanted to counter many of the things I saw here.

First, I went into this knowing that the load was going to be tough. Of course the sales person that tried to originally sign me up told me the time requirements, but was not accurate, as many people have pointed out. However, I took it upon myself to find out. I pretty much figured that since most of my financial aid (Including the G.I. Bill) considered the workload at UOP a "Full Load", that it was going to be difficult at best to complete with a full time job and family. If you cannot handle a full college workload, do not go to UOP.

I have seen many people say that they were overwhelmed by the workload at UOP and went to a traditional university and are only spending a couple of hours a couple of days a week working now. I can pretty much guarentee they are not taking a full load at the traditional college.

The reason UOP is saying they are "Faster" than a traditional university is because they are Year Round for the most part. There are no summer breaks unless you schedule one. I happened to schedule a two year one to pay attention to my family and job.

Concerning the comments about not accepting outside credits, they did right by me. I had attended two years of electronics training and other courses in my NAVY enlistment. They gave me credit for much of that. I also had attended my local community college for several things, and they accepted all of those credits. I made sure of the credits they would accept before I took my second class. Also, when I started up again, I took another course (pre-Calc) at my local community college to satisfy my math credits. They accepted those also.

In a post I read earlier, someone made comments about the books being sub-standard and poorly written. The books when I first went to UOP (2002-2003) were quality printed books, but WAY overpriced. When I came back they had switched to e-books. The e-books are electronic copies of actual books that you can buy at your local book store. However, while you can buy the books at a local store, it will cost you extra. You don't have a choice of getting a printed book as opposed to their e-books.

The format of UOP's e-books is horrible in the HTML format, but if downloaded via PDF, they are bearable. It should be noted that they are still extremely overpriced.

The learning teams are stupid and a waste of time in each class. UOP should just have a 5 week "working in teams" class, and get this waste of time and source of stress out of the way.

Quality of Education? - I guess it depends on your perspective. I'm wondering if Cynthia (the originator of this post) has finished getting her degree yet? I know that I would not be where I am in my education today without UOP as I could never have even concidered attending a traditional university full time. There just aren't enough hours in the day. Because I was able to get (or soon get) my degree, I'm happy. The level of education you get, depends on what you put in. I know that there were some classes I skipped through and others I worked my butt off. I'm gained more knowledge, and self respect, from the ones I worked hard on. For the most part I am happy with what I was taught and the level of education that was offered and available if I was willing to work with it.

Comments on staff - My educational and financial advisors were all good. I had to switch a couple of times but not often. My financial advisor got pushy once, and I complained and it was fixed quickly. He is a great advisor, but was agressive on getting paid early. I did have one bad one, and was told that I couldn't switch. After some real complaining to people that wondered why a student was calling them, I got switched. So you are not stuck with anyone bad if you don't want to be.

I had instructors that ranged from Excellent to extremely poor over the years. Can't this be said about any situation? I've even had some that I taught a thing or two. Again, I'm positive that this isn't unique to UOP.

Are traditional universities better? I think that some are and some aren't. It just depends on what you can do with where you are in life. I personally don't think they are for me, because I could not have attended one and got my degree in the time that I did with UOP. Actually with my crazy work schedule, I probably couldn't have attended one at all. So for me UOP is great. Did I learn anything? Yes, I learned a lot. My grammer and writing skills have increased sharply over the years. I even gained a lot of skills in IT even though that has been my career field for the past 15 years.

I do know that I have worked circles around people that have degrees from traditional universities. I have also felt very intimidated by the level of knowledge that some people have displayed with an education from a traditional university. I don't credit the performance of these people to or against the university they attended.

For those of you that stated that you won't even interview people that put UOP on their resume's, it's your loss. While there are some (probably man) duds out there, there are also many good people that only went back to school to have the degree to get the interview, such as myself. The experience I have, and the level I perform at currently is far above anything that 95% of the colleges are teaching at the undergrad level. But getting an interview is nearly impossible at the level I'm at, because I don't have the piece of paper. Will the degree from UOP help me get the interview I need should I need it? I don't know, but I'm a step close than the people that simply quit and have went no further.

Bottom line is that UOP is HARD and expensive. It takes a lot of time and dedication. Not only on your part, but also your families if you happen to have one.

Thanks to everyone that posted, especially the negative people. Because of your posts, I am proud of my education from UOP and what I have accomplished. An education at UOP or ANY university for that matter, is what you make it.

#92

Consumer Comment

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DO NOT USE THE UNIVERSITY OF PHOENIX ONLINE

Storm - ANDOVER (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Sunday, April 02, 2006 POSTED: Sunday, April 02, 2006

Go to: UNIVERSITYOPHOENIXONLINE.COM

There are many other schools (traditional and/or online) other than UOP to choose from. The UOP currently sports the highest number of complaints against itself. I do respect the comments of the employees who are paid by the university to make comments - supporting the quality, etc. of the institution, I totally understand, and to the students who will later realize that they made a mistake going to UOP (You definitely will)... I recommend that when you find a place in your life to transfer to another school - make that change - this school is quite unfair. You won't see it while you are in the middle of it, but you will certainly and eventually realize it. I will be establishing a website soon. Keep an eye out for it. =)

http://www.ripoffreport.com/results.asp?submit22=Search+Latest+3+Months+of+Rip-Off+Reports+Now%21&q1=ALL&q5=University+Of+Phoenix&q4=&q6=&q3=&q2=&q7=&searchtype=0

#93

Ex-Employee

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BRANDON - IN VIOLATION OF THE FERPA LAW

Monica - Phoenix (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Monday, April 03, 2006 POSTED: Monday, April 03, 2006

GENERAL

Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA)

The Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA) (20 U.S.C. § 1232g; 34 CFR Part 99) is a Federal law that protects the privacy of student education records. The law applies to all schools that receive funds under an applicable program of the U.S. Department of Education.

FERPA gives parents certain rights with respect to their children's education records. These rights transfer to the student when he or she reaches the age of 18 or attends a school beyond the high school level. Students to whom the rights have transferred are "eligible students."

Parents or eligible students have the right to inspect and review the student's education records maintained by the school. Schools are not required to provide copies of records unless, for reasons such as great distance, it is impossible for parents or eligible students to review the records. Schools may charge a fee for copies.

Parents or eligible students have the right to request that a school correct records which they believe to be inaccurate or misleading. If the school decides not to amend the record, the parent or eligible student then has the right to a formal hearing. After the hearing, if the school still decides not to amend the record, the parent or eligible student has the right to place a statement with the record setting forth his or her view about the contested information.

Generally, schools must have written permission from the parent or eligible student in order to release any information from a student's education record. However, FERPA allows schools to disclose those records, without consent, to the following parties or under the following conditions (34 CFR § 99.31):

School officials with legitimate educational interest;

Other schools to which a student is transferring;

Specified officials for audit or evaluation purposes;

Appropriate parties in connection with financial aid to a student;

Organizations conducting certain studies for or on behalf of the school;

Accrediting organizations;

To comply with a judicial order or lawfully issued subpoena;

Appropriate officials in cases of health and safety emergencies; and

State and local authorities, within a juvenile justice system, pursuant to specific State law.

Schools may disclose, without consent, "directory" information such as a student's name, address, telephone number, date and place of birth, honors and awards, and dates of attendance. However, schools must tell parents and eligible students about directory information and allow parents and eligible students a reasonable amount of time to request that the school not disclose directory information about them. Schools must notify parents and eligible students annually of their rights under FERPA. The actual means of notification (special letter, inclusion in a PTA bulletin, student handbook, or newspaper article) is left to the discretion of each school.

For additional information or technical assistance, you may call (202) 260-3887 (voice). Individuals who use TDD may call the Federal Information Relay Service at 1-800-877-8339.

Or you may contact us at the following address:

Family Policy Compliance Office
U.S. Department of Education
400 Maryland Avenue, SW
Washington, D.C. 20202-5920

website:http://www.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/ferpa/index.html

Brandon - you released personal and private information about a student without her written permisiion and you are in violation of the FERPA laws.

Cynthia - you have a case here. Print and e-mail all correspondence and you have Brandon's telephone # - you can escalate this to it's fullest extent.

#94

Consumer Comment

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reasons of my own to say that they truly are scam artists

J - North Hills (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Sunday, April 16, 2006 POSTED: Sunday, April 16, 2006

I have to agree that this initial complaint seems unfounded and completely illegitimate. However, having been a student at UoP I have reasons of my own to say that they truly are scam artists. Many of the times I found that teachers didn't show up to class or were near impossible to contact and rarely gave feedback including grades. Beyond that, I found the learning team environment to be completely unfair and the support for troubled students to be absurd. I know a girl who works as a counselor for UoP in Arizona, and she confirms what an unethical corporation it is. As a student attending only the online campus, I found that one or two members often were responsible for the majority of team work. If other team members fail to meet deliverables, there are no consequences for the individual...only the blindsided team members are held accountable. A huge percentage of the student's grade is based on team work. The school argues that it is to duplicate a work environment, but I retort: at work people would face consequences for failing to meet deliverables. In instances where teachers have been unavailable or in one case: 3 team members dropped and the teacher didn't inform any of us until several due dates had passed, the school offers no reinbursement or credit for another class...they bind students with losing full payment on a course if they make more than 2 postings. It is this policy that allows UOP to literally rape its students of significant money. Each and every student who contacts their counselors, who by the way are given an impossible number of daily complaints to handle and no resources to address the concerns raised, are told "we've put in a ticket to have a counselor contact the teacher and work with them for the future." NOTHING MORE HAPPENS! You can call, e-mail and raise the most valid and justified concerns in the world, and the school puts you in a circle of appeasement with no resolve. Why? Because all the while students who are forced to drop classes due to University deficiencies are stuck paying the bill anyway. No motivation for the "private university" to resolve any of the "problems" because the "problems" bring them absurd revenue. This is why UOP is a scam and one of the most unethical institutions in operation today.

#95

Employee

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TechUoP

Matthias - Elm Str. (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Monday, April 17, 2006 POSTED: Monday, April 17, 2006

J, you wrote "I found that one or two members often were responsible for the majority of team work. If other team members fail to meet deliverables, there are no consequences for the individual... only the blindsided team members are held accountable."

Obviousely, you have not worked in the real world, cuz when you do get that job that your daddy got you, you will find out that learning teams are the same as teams at your work. Sooner or later, you will come across someone who you have to work with, but that you can not stand. So why are you bashing the school, when they are trying to get you ready for a real-world situation. Once again, your a moron, for not using common sense.

#96

Employee

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TECH UOP

Matthias - Elm Str. (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Monday, April 17, 2006 POSTED: Monday, April 17, 2006

I work in Tech Support for UOP Online. I speak with students as well as faculty every day. I have been working here for 2 years. UOP is a good school. Of course its not the best, but it is the best "online" school. It gets you ready for the realworld settings. i see all these reviews and how everyone seems to be bashing the school for no good reason. The problem lies with our enrollment dept. That dept will enroll anyone with 2 legs. Doesnt matter if they know nothing about computers. If they can write a check, then they are enrolled. In tech support, we end up dealing with these students, because its their own fault for not learning anything about computers or how to use one. I get students asking me how to copy and paste or how to send an email.... and these students thought that it would be easy to take an online class???????? get a life and take some computer classes, so that when you enroll with the school, or any other one, you wil know what to do, cuz it will NOT get easier.

#97

Employee

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TechUOP

Matthias - Elm Str. (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Monday, April 17, 2006 POSTED: Monday, April 17, 2006

Storm... your response was quite interesting. I work for Tech Support at UOP Online. Ive heard it all from the students. You have alot of negative things to say about the school, yet, you did not mention what exactly the school did to you. You say that the school is unfair? how so? did they not give you the A that you thought you wanted? This is not a diploma mill. You cant be procrastinating and still think that you can get a good score. Next time you plan on using negative comments, try to give some reasons for it, instead of promoting some 2nd grade useless website.

#98

Consumer Comment

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The more things change....

Max - Ft Myers (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 POSTED: Wednesday, May 17, 2006

About 2 years ago, I researched online universities in order to select the one I wanted to "attend." I quickly crossed U of P off of my list because of the huge numbers of complaints I found on this site and others. Most of the complaints were about the financial handling, administration, faculty, and God knows how many bitchings about the unfairness of the team approach because of loafers on the teams. I found another school with a good program, about 1/10 of U of P's enrollment, and try as I might, I could not, and still cannot find a single complaint anywhere online about the school. There is the occasional gripe about some minor matter on the schools's own forums, but no real complaint can be found on Rip-off Report, or anyplace else.

My only point is, people should use a little initiative, do some research and if a school has hundreds of complaints lodged against it, somewhere there is probably fire to go along with the smoke. If U of P is as great as its supporters in these rebuttals insist, I just ask why does it receive so many complaints while some other schools receive few or none? I guess they could answer that the programs are so easy that nobody complains, but that is certainly not the case where I am enrolled.

The classes are, on average, much more difficult and time-intensive than any on-site classes I had at other schools. I think there are currently fewer complaint threads here than there were a couple of years ago, so maybe things have improved a bit.

As a P.S. I have to add that the U of P supporters' contention that the team learning replicates real life work experience, does not see to hold true in my experience. I work for a Fortune 10 company, and around here, people who do not work and support their teams get fired, not college credits.

#99

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UOP -a mixed experience, but overall very good

C - Sacramento (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Monday, May 22, 2006 POSTED: Monday, May 22, 2006

DO NOT expect to be coddled when attending UOP online. It is not a walk in the park. I have completed 90 units at a traditional state university and I can honestly say that UOP has just as much homework and requires similiar standards. The only difference is that I get to do my coursework and read the lecture at home instead of sitting in an uncomfortable classroom. Many times I am up until midnight completing papers. I squabble with my learning team members and have called them at 10 p.m. in the evening to ask them to help with the project. Some learning team members have been hard to deal with, but that is just like real life.

Yes, it has been a real pain in the behind, but who said getting a college degree was easy? It takes 95 percent to get an A at UOP online unlike many traditional colleges. The required reading is substantial and good writing and communication skills are a must.

A few of my UOP instructors have been stubborn and at times off-base, but not much different than my instructors at the state university. I filed one complaint against an instructor that continually missed my class contributions - about 30 percent of my grade.

I have dealt with financial aid issues but with effort the issues have been resolved. UOP always provides me with a full disclosure of any costs, payments, financial aid disbursements, and credits. My academic counselors have provided minimal support but they all have made the effort to talk to me at least once during each class.

The experience has toughened me, made me a better communicator, and has prepared me for a real-life experience. I have a 3.9 GPA on top of everything!

#100

Consumer Comment

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A Pleased Student

Jamie - Waldorf (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Friday, June 02, 2006 POSTED: Friday, June 02, 2006

Hey Everyone-

I have read through almost all of the discussions about the UOP. I neither agree nor disagree with your comments. However, I want to enlighten you on my experience with UOP.

I am currently a student obtaining my Masters Degree in Early Childhood Education. I have been attending consistently since this past September. I expect to reach my goal, degree completion, by February 2007.

I admit that I spend ample time on the computer, seizing spare moments to read classmates feedback. I find the feedback wonderful because I am given new thoughts on facts, theories and theorists. I really do find it easier to retain the information. I feel that, over the course of all of my classes, the courses have gotten easier because of the consistency with the program.

Although every class has its focus, the format is the same. I planned my summer vacation around a class that won't start until a few weeks prior to the vacation. While this may seem absurd because of such a demanding schedule, it is not because I have learned what to expect at that time during the upcoming class.

Finally, I have found that the program is extremely rewarding for me. However, I admit that it may not be the best learning strategy for every person. As a teacher I understand that, per Howard Gardners theory of Multiple Intelligences, everyone learns in their own unique way. What is good for one person may not be good for another. Please consider this when you are considering the right University for you. It may or may not be the school so much as the way that your mind allows you to learn.

Sincerely,
Jamie of Maryland

#101

Consumer Comment

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Research on the clout of a UOP Degree

Wealth - Grand Rapids (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Friday, June 09, 2006 POSTED: Friday, June 09, 2006

I recently received a MBA degree from UOP. After reading so many disturbing comments about the validity of the degree, I decided to do some research. Basically, I typed in "MBA from University of Phoenix" in the search box of Yahoo. I was suprised to find so many people who had listed UOP degrees in their credentials. Many had high level executive positions, others were professors of colleges which had gone on to parlay MBA degrees from UOP into PhDs. One such example follows:

BRASFIELD, GIOVANNA, MBA
ASSOCIATE DEAN
Prof. Brasfield received her BA in Business Administration/Marketing from Mount St. Mary's College in 1998, her MBA from University of Phoenix in 2000 and completed her Doctorates in Public Administration coursework
at the University of La Verne in 2004. Prof. Brasfield's professional experience includes serving as a Research Assistant with Marketing Matrix, Inc. from 1999 to 2000, the Pricing Strategy Analyst with Nissan North America, Inc. in 2000, the Marketing Analyst with Nissan Motor Acceptance Corporation from 2001 to 2003 and as Marketing Director with Tenacious Entertainment since 2003. Prof. Brasfield is also the founder of Brasfield & Associates Marketing, a marketing consulting company that offers a broad range of marketing, event and sales consulting services. Prof. Brasfield's teaching experience includes serving as an Instructor with California International University since 2004, participating in college service and academic instruction, in developing and implementing innovative class discussions, in student advising and classroom leadership and in curriculum development.

In the above example the individual is a dean at Irvine University of Law. Here is the link: http://www.irvineuniversity.edu/bus/cob_fac.asp

I have found that in my own town a degree from UOP is accepted because of the brick and mortar presence here. What also helps is that the diploma does not distinguish between online of on campus.

I have read that grades are handed out like candy. This is not so. I ended with a 3.72. This was hard earned. I also had to take mid-term and final exams in many classes, along with research papers that were evaluated on format (APA), grammar, and content. Many of the papers followed a rubrick, but some did not. In any case the ABA format was strictly adhered to. In regards to teams. I had many instructors who gave group and individual grades based on the contribution of each team member. In addition, I learned how to speak my mind when I felt a team member was not pulling his or her weight. As a result, I never had a problem with any team member getting a grade he or she did not work for.

Overall my experience was good. UOPs educational structure worked for me and I am happy with what I received.

I believe that UOP has more complaints because it has more presence. It has a large competitive edge, in that it supplies as much needed service to a large niche market. In addition, it is normal for fame to breed criticism and notoriety.

I agree that the University is not perfect. Much could be improved. However, I will not negate my own eduation. I feel I have accomplished much. In addition, my research shows that a degree from the University of Phoenix is credible and can take a person far. It is up to the individual to know how to use it.

#102

Consumer Comment

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U. of Phoenix Getting Dumped On!

Kendel - Cave Creek (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Sunday, June 11, 2006 POSTED: Sunday, June 11, 2006

I currently am enrolled in U. of Phoenix on-line courses! My enrollment counselor was informative and attentive. The same was true of my financial aid counselor. There was a mistake made in the financial aid paperwork creating a delay in receiving the award. But when brought to the counselor's attention, he remedied the problem immediately. Did I get upset about this? Absolutely not. Very little in life goes without a hitch and if this was the worst thing that happened in my life, right on! My academic counselor calls me once a week deligently. When she was out of town, her co-worker followed up in her place. My instructors have been helpful and participated in their respective courses regularly. I have been more than happy with my experience, especially when I didn't know quite what to expect from the distance learning program. It has been what I needed to earn my degree while working around the demands of work and home.

But I don't understand some of you commenting here and how your minds work. The employee working for U. of Phoenix was defending his employer. The original poster didn't provide her last name. I have no idea who she is. She made some rather serious allegations. I don't think he did anything wrong by setting the record straight as to why she is no longer enrolled. The original writer tried to mislead readers. Shame on you Cynthia!

And what's with people alway's so ready to jump on the Civil Law Suit (or any other type of law suit) band-wagon? It's ridiculous. The U. of Phoenix didn't work for everyone. So what! Nothing in life work's for EVERYONE! Does that mean every time I have a problem or feel I've been inconvenienced I should be compensated or threaten to sue? For what? More often than not, the problems that occur, much like the original writer's experience, is because they misunderstood. It happen's. Get over it! This probably is not the first time you misunderstood something that was explained to you and it won't be the last. In the scheme of life, if that's the only thing that goes wrong, what do you REALLY have to complain about? It's not life or death. It's a few phone calls and a pain in the butt. Big Deal!

As far as the school being reputable, my Daddy is a Professor at a private university in California for more than 33 years. His employer does not offer on-line academics, but he has heard nothing but wonderful things about U. of Phoenix and it's distance learning program. He actually was my source of information in explaining U. of Phx being the pioneers of on-line academics having built an extremely reputable reputation and is far from frowned upon by other universities throughout the United States.

Anyone considering enrolling at U. of Phx, pay little attention to the hate threads here. It seems to me these are people expecting life to be easy and thinking they are entitled to something for nothing or money for having to take some time out of their day's to resolve a problem. Problems happen. Move on and stop crying about it. If that was all I had to complain about in my life, I'd be smiling from ear to ear!

#103

Employee

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Veiws from the student and Enrollment Counselor

Justin - Scottsdale (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 POSTED: Wednesday, June 14, 2006

First thing first, I am a student and an Enrollment counselor and I see both sides and hopefully my insight may help solve some of the issues posted here. I enrolled before I ever considered working there. You will most likely see many posts from me as I do not want it to be a novel. If you are thinking of enrolling at UOP then I strongly recommend you read this.

I am and enrollment counselor and noticed several postings on my job being a “sales job!” Unfortunately that is partially true, however the majority of how my job performance is measured by how many students I retain (meaning they do not drop out or fail)

With that in mind wouldn't you call my job “customer service” I can enroll 100 students a month but, if only 10 of them stay then I'm not doing my job. Many postings in here UOP sound like they just throw spaghetti on the wall and see who sticks! UOP is not interested in student who want to drop out, they want then to be successful for several reasons, #1 their reputation and #2 they make more money if you stay! You now say “see all they want is your money” well in case you did not realize this UOP is a For-Profit Organization, that's right, it's a business… They make money! Does that mean they do not offer a great product? No!

I also noticed many postings about the level of education your counselor/advisor has. It's true there are many counselors that do not have a degree, this is the case at many companies, does that mean they are not qualified? UOP employees have 100% free tuition. If you work Dairy Queen you eat ice cream! All the counselors that I work with that do not have a degree are enrolled in the very same program that they enroll for.

If you were inquiring, wouldn't you want to talk to someone that works all day enrolling for the program and then all evening studying to complete it? Is your counselor qualified to give you the information you need? Nine times out of ten they know more about the program they enroll for than any counselor at a traditional University who enrolls for all programs! Oh and did I mention you might only talk to the traditional counselor 3-4 times the entire time you attend (based on a bachelors degree).

Many of you have talked about class action suits, remember this is a business; they spend endless amounts of money on advertising. If they did not have cold hard proof that you where the negligent party then wouldn't they just have paid you off by now! I mean why would they spend endless amounts of money in advertising to build their reputation just to have a lazy nitwit drag it into the ground? I'm no business man but seems like it would be more cost effective you pass you a few mill then to let their advertising dollars go to nothing.

Food for thought… Take it for what its worth… I will be posting on several other topics!

#104

Consumer Comment

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Degree from UOP is WORTHLESS

James - New York (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Monday, June 19, 2006 POSTED: Monday, June 19, 2006

I have completed BA and MBA from UOP. And I have been looking for a job, in the finance field.

I thought I would be getting some kind of recognition from the companies.

At least I got the degrees, even though all the schoolwork was done online, and the name of the school was not Harvard or Yale.

BUT!!!!!

Among about 15 job interviews, almost all of them treated me like a highschool graduate. They do not and will not recognize degrees from UOP as valid ones. The HR officers were looking at me as if I was scamming them with some fake degrees.

NO, I am not some bum with no education background. I was accepted to several state colleges and private universities years back.
I chose to go to UOP purely out of convenience and time factor. I could work while getting the degrees.
I did not want to go thru the parties, alcohol, drugs, and etc, but straight to work and study.
I was furified. For tuition plan, I did the full CASH payment plan without any financial aid, and spent close to $60,000 on both degrees.
Anyway, here is what I found out and shocking truth.

I did some research on google about UOP and its accredation.

It turns out that the accredation UOP holds is nothing like regular colleges' ones. Although UOP argues (very strongly) that UOP is a FULLY accredited institution, the "quality" of accredation is nothing more than some language institutes or nail academies.

I am planning to attend to regular brick and mortar schools in my area with legitimate accredation. I have tried to transfer the credits from UOP, but it won't work either. Again, the "quality" of accredation is not up to the standards.

I don't think I was scammed or UOP was fraudulent. It's just that UOP is not a good school. The degrees are not recognized since UOP is well known for easy grades, and easy degrees.
I just did not do enough research before spending $$$$$$$$$$ on nothing.

I got the BA and MBA without too much difficulties, and I thought I was good.
Please remember, when something is too good to be true. It probably is not true.

Many on this report argue that UOP is not a degree mill, but I disagree.
UOP IS A DEGREE MILL, and GREEDY PIG.

I learned a valuable life lesson, and I will never forget it.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DON'T BE FOOLED BY ALL THE COMMERCIALS AND ADVERTISEMENTS.

And the PAID REBUTTALS from so called "employees" and "former students". UOP has lots of money and they will do whatever to hide their ugly bottom.

#105

Ex-Employee

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Another Point of View

Brad - Peoria (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 POSTED: Tuesday, June 20, 2006

Hello, I am a former employee of UOP Online and worked in the technical support department in Tempe AZ.

I can say from my experience and from talking with thousands of students that UOP is definitely on the up-and-up. The vast majority of students are working adults and not stupid by any stretch of the imagination. Most everyone I dealt with was happy to be a student at UOP and found the learning environment challenging; what college is supposed to be! I dealt with first time college student too, who just were not prepared for the challenge – the way many new students at a brick-and-mortar school are just not ready.

Consider this: At any given moment UOP has over 65,000 students world-wide! Anyone should know that in that large of a number there are going to be a few people who just don't get it and those who will never be happy with anything. They can't handle the work load, the studies or do not have the required discipline to complete a long-term goal. There will always be the dunce factor when dealing with higher education too. Some people are just not cut out to be scholars. No offence intended. And there are those people too, who are dreamers and will never achieve their academic ambitions simply because they know how to set and achieve desired goals in a self-disciplined learning environment that is the hallmark of distance education. On the same note, there are also so many teachers that there will occasionally be a less than desirable teacher from time-to-time.

I know for a fact that the UOP is a highly recognized school and some of the biggest and richest companies send their employees there. The US military uses UOP for its distance educational needs, as do many fortune 500 companies – would you call them stupid? Do you not think they do their research before paying the tuitions for their people? They would never pay the tuitions if for one minute they thought that their people were being ripped-off or receiving a sub-standard education.

In short, the University of Phoenix is a good school that turns out some highly educated professionals and gives other a chance at a better life with a REAL college degree. I don't know what kind of employers do not recognize the UOP as a valid college (as someone stated earlier), but if they are, they are passing up some of the best educated people in the country. The UOP is also looked upon by many employers and students as an MIT or Caltech grade institution. I was proud to work there and honored to be able to provide service to the online students.

#106

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Same experiences everywhere

S. - Honolulu (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Sunday, September 10, 2006 POSTED: Sunday, September 10, 2006

I am a current student at the University of Phoenix - MBA program. The last couple of posts have peaked my interest.
First of all - I am not a paid advocate of the University as SOME people believe. There are those of us who have actually had a good experience.

Let me give you all a little background:
I am a State University graduate with two bachelors degrees.
I work full-time.
I have been attending UoP since March of 2005.

On to my comments -
The same complaints I have read and experienced myself can be applied to a traditional school. In fact, the university I attended had a nickname - "Call Me Stupid University". They, like UoP, had low entrance requirements. That doesn't mean it was easy to graduate - just easy to get in.

I have to admit when I first enrolled in the University of Phoenix, I was really hoping that it was a degree mill. I didn't want to have to work very hard. News Flash! It is not easy. The amount of work I do rivals a full-time job - I have a 3.8 GPA (I know, its not a 4.0, but still good I think). If you aren't willing to put in the work to accomplish this task - I don't think you deserve to get the degree. I know that I am working my behind off, and it feels good to not just be handed the degree.

To all of those people who complain about having to pay even though they dropped the class - surprise! That information was in the tutorials you had to complete before the classes even started. Guess what - it is not the advisors job to hold your hand and make sure that everything is in order. You are all adults - do it yourself, keep documentation, and only communicate via email. I requested that my advisor only contact me through email - and she has complied. I have documentation of all of our conversations, in case something happens.

It's called CYA folks. Don't assume that everyone has your best interest at heart - that doesn't always happen.

All in all, I have had good and bad experiences at both types of colleges. Personally, I don't feel like UoP is a degree mill - and I have learned alot from many great instructors who have wonderful experiences to share.

Stacy from Honolulu

#107

Consumer Suggestion

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U of P Employee Urges Sensible Approach

Ron - Gilbert (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Sunday, November 12, 2006 POSTED: Sunday, November 12, 2006

I have been a happy and successful employee here as an enrollment counselor for about a year and a half. This place is huge. There are thousands of employees, students, faculty members, etc. It is impossible for every person who works here to be operating in the highest levels of integrity and thoroughness at all times. Any large institution will have its share of good and bad employees, management, etc. I get upset when I see so many postings here and elsewhere that assume that simply because there have been some bad experiences and they have heard of others with similar stories that the whole institution is therefore a scam.

University of Phoenix is a big target. That's primarily why there are so many more negative postings here than at many other schools. We are simply dealing with more people who can potentially have a bad experience. In addition, based on the fact that we are a for-profit institution and decidedly non traditional in just about every aspect of our approach to education, that does not make us necessarily bad or incorrect or of inferior quality. So many of the negative comments I read here and elsewhere seem to be people that are saying we are a scam because we do not meet the standards that they arbitrarily feel we ought to. We do what we do well for whom we are trying to serve and that's that. As I say to many of my students, "this ain't Harvard"! That's not a disgrace, it's just what we are.

Most people who attend here do not have a lot of options to attend traditional schools. That is the whole point. It's like comparing apples and oranges, and then giving the apples a bad report because you can't get good orange juice out of it! If it's so darn important for you to get a degree from a traditional institution, then by golly just shut up and go there! So what if it is a fact that many employers or other colleges do not accept credits and/or degrees from here? That does not make us a scam, it simply means we do not provide what they are looking for. Why is that such a crime? There are plenty of companies and other universities that do indeed accept this as a legitimate institution and education and plenty that do not. The same is true for other institutions of higher learning.

Before I attended here while I was considering my options for finally completing my Bachelor's degree after being out for 20 years, I received some good advice from a relative who holds several degrees, including a doctorate from Stanford. He works at JPL in Pasadena California and is obviously a very highly educated professional. He said that my college choice needs to keep in mind who it is I am hoping to impress with my degree. If I am wanting to be a "rocket scientist" like he is, U of P obviously would probably not be a very wise choice.

In addition, I needed to be realistic about my options for financial and academic success. U of P is right for me at this time with my situation and my current goals and my available options. There's always something better out there, no matter what you do. Going to Stanford is not a realistic option for me, but would clearly be a better, more respected choice by many employers and other colleges. But so what? I'd also be better off if I was good looking enough to be a movie star or physically fit enough to be a pro athlete or "plugged in" enough to elite circles to be successful in politics. But I am not, so I simply must accept my station in life and do the best I can with what I have to work with. Right now University of Phoenix is that best option, and I do not consider it a "consolation prize" in life, but a privilege and an opportunity that I am grateful for. Some of these complainers just sound to me like they are unhappy with their lack of success in life and instead of taking responsibility for it or just trying to do something about it, they want to blame U of p for everything that is not right with their life. How ironic that this kind of blame shifting is probably one of the hindrances to their success in life as so many others around them are repelled by that type of attitude.

Frankly much of the complaining I read about here and on similar sites comes across as just arrogant snobbery. It seems that people really enjoy trashing U of P to make themselves feel better because they are unhappy about the work load (it's either too easy and they accuse us of being a diploma mill, or it's too hard and they think we are big meanies), the customer service (you will get a lot of voicemails and clueless employees at any large company. Deal with it - that's just life. Keep calling until you get someone to help you), the finances (it's not inexpensive to get a degree anywhere, and financial aid has the same complex rules for all schools), the acceptance of their degree (there will always be someone unhappy with or unimpressed by anything that you do), or you name it!

Then to top it all off, these complaints are often all dressed up in a sense of nobility by "warning" others to avoid the same scam and be saved. Well, for all of you who think you are doing such a huge favor to society, did you ever stop to realize how you make those of us who work and/or go to school here feel like crap? I read some of this stuff and sometimes feel like I ought to go crawl in a hole somewhere and repent for having ever "helped" someone "improve" their life by "ripping them off" for getting into such a "scam" that dares to even call itself a legitimate school! Oh puh-leeeze! Just get off your high horses and go hobnob with others that are suitable to your self-congratulatory high standards of integrity, intelligence, and apparent authority to be the ultimate arbiters of truth. Just leave all us other poor saps alone to wallow in our own ignorance while we spend time trying to help people who have to struggle to get a degree - any degree - because of job or parenting responsibilities, physical or mental limitations, inability to meet other institutions' high entrance standards, or financial barriers. According to the attitudes expressed by so many of these high and mighty unhappy former students and employees, it's as if anyone who is not successful enough to make education work some way other than through U of P is either stupid, lacking integrity , or both.

I've got news for you - being a failure in life is NOT a crime the last time I checked. Having to struggle and having to go to U of P to get a degree does not make you a scam artist or a fool. Likewise, working here does not make you a willing party to all of the bad customer service issues described, which do indeed happen here at times and happen in all large institutions. And if there is any wrongdoing or unethical practices going on in higher levels of management here, which may indeed be true, I am confident that proper legal action, accreditation penalties, and the general culture encouraged here of high integrity and standards of excellence will ultimately have its way. In other words, people will be fired or simply disappear, policies will be adjusted and enforcement will be escalated. Change will constantly happen as in any other large company. The marketplace has a way of correcting itself, especially in a for-profit school such as this (which apparently for some is in and of itself another great breach of integrity or academic honesty).

Everyone just needs to chill about all this stuff. It's as if every little piece of negative information out there about U of P or Apollo Group is this great huge moral disgrace! I'm not condoning any of the bad things or advocating looking the other way, but all I'm saying is for heaven's sake, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater!

There are so many powerfully good things happening around here with changed lives and second chances that I myself have been powerfully and positively changed forever. The fundamental purpose of this place is and always has been to provide opportunities for education and a better life for those who cannot easily achieve these goals in other ways. As an enrollment counselor for our associates program, Axia College, I have personally helped many single moms, self described "losers" and others of particularly low esteem accomplish things they never thought were possible. Many of these people could barely use a computer when they first came to us and I certainly have had my share of teaching people to do simple procedures like copy and paste. I agree that trying to function in our society (let alone trying to attend an online university) without basic computer skills is a serious form of illiteracy nowadays. But according to some of the complaints I have read, I should be considered some kind of scam artist because I have taken the time to help someone like that learn those valuable skills so they can go to college and start to lift themselves out of the pit they are in.

Judging things from the negative viewpoint that many of these people express, you can reduce everything about us to a selfish perspective. It is possible to convince yourself that all we want is the money so we just "sign up" anyone to get them enrolled. If you remove genuine caring and wanting to help people out of the equation you can turn just about anything into a scam. Indeed, many prospective students have huge goals that they will probably never reach, but why is it such a crime to help them move forward in their life? I don't give them false hope, but neither do I say they ought not to have a chance simply because it seems like a long shot. And of course, they realize what school they are applying to and have realistic expectations about what a degree from here can do for them. I certainly do not, nor do most of the enrollment counselors I know paint a false picture of what type of degree they are earning. Realistically, it is not the most highly respected thing out there, but it certainly is not the diploma mill or laughable, worthless piece of paper that many of these complainers portray it as.

In conclusion I want to reiterate that I agree that many of the negative things said about U of P may indeed have roots in truth, just as any other large institution is likely to have negative things going on. But to simply discard the whole thing as a scam and bad school full of bad people trying to rip others off is the height of arrogance and inconsiderate inappropriate discourse. These complainers are only strengthening my resolve to continue to be very careful about avoiding people with that kind of impenetrable arrogance. There simply is no convincing many of them nor is there any defense against their positions. In their view, anyone who disagrees with them is wrong. End of discussion. Period.

Very well then, we'll just continue on with others who are apparently misguided and ignorant and have our own "miserable" lives together, enjoying successful careers, valid degrees, and associating with other kind, respectful and smart people that are apparently deluded as I am. Gee, it's too bad there are so many of us. I guess the fact that we are by far the largest private school in the nation and one of the largest of any type in the U.S. only confirms the naysayers' contention that we are just getting better at deceiving everyone and ripping people off. Well, then I guess at least we are good at something.

If you are a University of Phoenix employee, faculty member, student, graduate, investor, or other person who appreciates and understands the value of this excellent organization, I urge you to post your genuine comments on this site and elsewhere to let the voice of positive experiences be heard as well. (By the way, if anyone is up to it and has experience, you might want to contribute to the Wickipedia entry about U of P. It has a decidedly negative tone to it and although it is an "open source" document that virtually anyone can contribute to, it is incorrectly regarded as the de-facto authoritative definition of truth by many. I have had students contact me with concerns about its portrayal of us. It appears to have been written by people with many of the negative views I have described in this posting, so everything comes through that negative filter rather than objective statement.)

Be encouraged that the negative viewpoints expressed on this and other websites is relatively a small number, despite the apparent massive volume of complaints. It appears to me that despite their increasingly strident cries, the reputation and value of our degrees appears to be improving, as our enrollment numbers continue to climb. We must be doing something right around here, because things just keep getting better.

#108

Consumer Comment

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Re: U of P Employee Urges Sensible Approach

Brian - Middletwon (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 POSTED: Tuesday, November 14, 2006

You said it all. Oustanding response! By the way, I work for a Fortune 500 company who fully accepts UOP and their program. My brother who is a double major from VA. Tech (Big 10) school, claims the UOP Business program rivals many large universities. Food for thought!

#109

Consumer Comment

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University of Phoenix Graduate

Kerry - Grand Rapids (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Thursday, November 16, 2006 POSTED: Thursday, November 16, 2006

I went to the University of Phoenix at the West Michigan Campus, I was one of the few black students going there. I was slandered and Discriminated against by an instructor every week. It was reported to the Dean of Academic Affairs, their rebuttal to the teachers actions were that he was a diabetic and cannot help himself and what he was saying about me.

I told them that I too was a diabetic and I don't go around making racist comments to other students nor staff. Now I am having other problems with U of P. My Social Security number got changed because of an abusive relationship. Since the change my old number is no longer good.

I have sent documents my new SS number, they refuse to change the number in the system so that when employers do a background check they can see that I earned a degree. My experiences were hard I had 3 surgeries while I was attending but I still managed to graduate, my struggle to complete even though I had surgeries was hard. Now they won't update the system and change my SS number because they claim I don't have enough proof even though I sent them information from the SS office here in Michigan.

For some of you I feel your pain, for others an accelerated program is not for everyone.

#110

Employee

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Subjective, anecdotal references are not valid indictments

Ron - Gilbert (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Sunday, November 19, 2006 POSTED: Sunday, November 19, 2006

There are many postings here and elsewhere that are specific stories of negative experiences with University of Phoenix and its affiliates. Many are given as if their experience is therefore proof positive that all things University of Phoenix are bad.

Although I do "feel the pain" of the previous posting, and agree that any treatment that is racially influenced is abhorrent behavior by a faculty member, I am sure that this sort of unfortunate bias occurs in many schools. If the claims are legitimate and there was true damage done, any person of any race should consider pressing for justice in such cases - diabetic or not.

However, sometimes one must simply have to decide how to "choose their battles". Often times the best response is to simply walk away. Getting embroiled in a bitter argument over subjective negative treatment can sometimes be more damaging and distracting than the original offense. This can be due to the anger, time and grief invested. The sad truth is - there are simply jerks out there that you will often encounter in life. Unfortunately some people who work for U of P or teach here also qualify as "jerks" and that is just the way things are. As I stated in a previous posting it would be impossible to have such a large organization 100% "jerk free".

So the short answer is that you sometimes you just need to swallow your pride, realize that sometimes you will just plain be treated unfairly, and keep going with your goals, hopefully learning more and more about how to not let the jerks negatively affect you as you move through life. This applies to navigating through trying to complete a degree program at University of Phoenix, dealing with complex financial aid issues, and also the disappointment of finding out that not everyone on the planet will be overjoyed with you that you got your degree from University of Phoenix. As I have said before, "this ain't Harvard"! But it certainly is a legitimate, respected degree and is definitely not a diploma mill, as anyone who has struggled with some of the courses will attest to. But I can PROMISE you there will be people out there that will never in a hundred years ever be happy with what you did here at U of P because their mind is made up and immovable based on hearsay and assumption, not fact. It is unfortunate but true - some people out there are simply biased against U of P and that's that.

Those ideas and the difficulties one encounters with us does not prove that U of P is a rip-off or unethical or categorically bad. It simply proves that life is difficult and one must persevere through difficulty to succeed at anything. To those of you who are so upset at U of P, I "feel your pain", but encourage you to keep moving forward positively and resist the temptation to simply bash U of P in order to come up with an easy explanation for the complex issues that may be causing your pain. Life is hard. We are here to help you become more successful with your educational goals in any way we can. If we can not assist you with that, I hope you can find a suitable institution that will be able to. If this is all the better you can do (which as I've said is really not that bad), then please just work hard to make the best of it and keep moving forward, resisting the urge to vent in a negative way that will ultimately end up being damaging for all of us. The more negative voices there are out there complaining about the value of university of Phoenix, the more it erodes the perception of value that will enhance the degree. It also serves to diminish the quality of faculty and employees that will be interested in working here, which further erodes the quality of the education and experiences. All this negative talk fuels a vicious cycle that works against the goals of the institution, its associates, and most importantly, its students. For further discussion and comments (even positive ones) or if there is any way I may be able to help, you may contact me at tmp825 (at) g mail dot com.

#111

Consumer Comment

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University of Phoenix online

Claire - Gaithersburg (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Thursday, November 30, 2006 POSTED: Friday, December 01, 2006

I have spent 18 months studying for an assoc. degree with UoP(Axia). I have nothing but the highest regard for the Professors and Admin staff. I am a 44 year old marketer with 20 years business experience. If a company's HR dept. discriminates between those who study in the evenings and w/ends (working or managing a family in-between) and full time students on campus who have no actual work experience, then I wouldn't want to work there.

Uop has given me a chance of obtaining a lifetime dream. Please don't spoil the experience for me or other students. I have to pay $1800 per semester for my education, and I tell you - the education and support I get is worth every penny.

#112

Ex-Employee

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University of Phoenix headed for trouble

J - Phoenix (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Friday, December 29, 2006 POSTED: Friday, December 29, 2006

I will try to keep this as brief as possible but can elaborate on any point. (My latest submission to the Federal Department of Labor was over 70 pages.)

Many of you will automatically categorize me as the disgruntled ex-employee but like many others who left before me, I wasn't disgruntled, I just could no longer work in such a corrupt environment.

There are always two sides to every story; mine was that I was a top performer for the 1.5 years I was employed but started noticing some unethical behavior about a year into it. When I attempted to bring this to light, I was essentially managed out of the institution. My direct manager was allowed to yell at me, harrass and discriminate me. Although I took my concerns to upper management, HR and the Ombuds Office, my efforts were put forth in vain.

To anyone who writes something good about this institution, I will respond with the negative. Our managers even had us read these reports and attempted to brainwash was by saying the negativity only comes from those who were fired or owe UOP money or couldn't handle going back to school. Even lower management is brainwashed into believing this nonsense.

I have my MBA from another school. I started another Master's at UOP and quit the program in spite of the free tutition.

Stay away from this school. Spend your money elsewhere.

#113

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Completely Shocked

Elizabeth - Texarkana (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Thursday, January 11, 2007 POSTED: Friday, January 12, 2007

I am in complete and utter shock over this whole debate. I have read every single comment and rebuttle and while many posts make valid points and complaints, some of the posts are just ignorant to say the least. I am a student of the University of Phoenix and my experience has been nothing short of outstanding. Their faculty and advisors are attentive and understanding to my needs as a student and I could not ask for a better college experience.

First of all, one should not commit to something without asking as many questions as possible and without reading the fine print. Second of all, I was never pressured into enrolling into the University of Phoenix. I did my own research and reviewed positive and negative comments about the University of Phoenix and decided that this institution was the best opportunity for me. I initiated the relationship with the counselors by calling and asking for more information. Upfront I was told that this was an accelerated learning environment and that it was going to take time. I knew going into this that my personal time would have to be invested into getting my degree and that without having physical contact with other students and professors it would be twice as hard to complete assignments, papers, etc. But who said that life was easy? Who said that obtaining a degree is easy?

To you Cynthia I do not doubt that you had a negative experience and I hate that. But this sort of learning environment isn't for everyone and (just a suggestion) maybe you should take some of the responsibility on yourself for what happened between you and the University of Phoenix, I mean come on we're human we do make mistakes I know I do and I'm sure you do not claim to be perfect. It is okay to say well, maybe I am not cut out for this sort of thing and I made the mistake of getting involved. What I also wanted to say was that I was appalled at what Brandon did to you. That was an unprofessional and spiteful thing to do and I hope you do consider taking some sort of action against him on that end of the spectrum because frankly he deserves it. Defending your place of employment is one thing, investigating and spying into a student's personal files because of pride and spite is another.

To you Kim, I just thought your comment was a big, fat joke. I have been attending the University of Phoenix for some time now and I only know of one person, who is now a good friend of mine, who is African American and that is only because she told me she was African American. I want to know how you know of their grades and performance levels and I also would love to hear your explanation on how you can tell a person is African American by reading their posts in the classroom.

Finally, I would just like to say that every experience is what you make of it. As adults we must take responsibility for mistakes made and move on. This sort of education is not for everyone, but it is definitely for me and I will be graduating soon. I am very proud of what I have accomplished and I would not trade it in for anything. Good luck everyone.

#114

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Online and Offline College Programs / What accreditation means

Steve - Asheville (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Monday, January 15, 2007 POSTED: Monday, January 15, 2007

My wife finished a AA program through Keiser College because at the time, the UOP counselors kept hounding her to join and pay costs day and night before she had time to properly review all the infomration we received from several school programs to make an infomred decision as anyone should. UOP counselors were rude, hard pressing, and upsetting to us and they turned us off with that. That sort of hard sell tactic is outdated and makes us sick! We later found UOP counselors are also given bonuses and commissions over a base salary to lure as many students as they can to UOP.

People need to know, however sad, the education "system" is a money generating business, and even with Keiser College, they changed their course at the end so the 63 credit hours of federal loans they received, they told my wife was worth only 40 credit hours if she continued into a BA degree with them! Unreal! Simply, it forced her to take more courses which generates into more money for the college. So we dropped them after the AA and she is going elsewhere today.

Next, accreditation is so losely used today most have no damn idea what it means. There is "national" accreditation and "regional" accreditation. And yes, you will be very hard pressed to find ANY institution who will accept 100% of another institution's credits and they ALL will give you excuses why. This locks the student into the new school longer which translates into more money for that college- especially regionally accredited schools.

Mainly, correspondence schools and others (ITT, ICS, etc.), that have been around decades even, are nationally accredited and means you pay as you go out of pocket. NO financial aid. They have private accrediting bodies who support who they are but sadly, there are also a lot of internet diploma mills out there with national accreditation from unknown or unidentifiable accrediting groups and are made up to confuse people. When you investigate it, there is no "real standard" for what defines an accrediting body in fact.

Now, schools that are regionally accredited, means they are recognized by the DOE and able to offer federal financial aid programs. There are few regional accreditation councils as opposed to national councils, and anyone intelligent might question why they are done this way which really confuses many people, because one would think a "national" is better than a "regional". Not so.

To go a step further, if you are wanting a federal job or other, you need to also know, that with recent post 911 changes and policies of the federal government itself, all their positions require education from regional accredited schools they "list" as "acceptable", so even if you went to a regionally accredited school, and it is not on the fed's "recognized" list, then your degree does not exist in their eyes; though your degree may well be very good and from a well know institution. Many would be surprised how many senior federal employees have been ousted from their jobs now and/or demoted to subordinate positions unitl they obtain the "recognized" degrees to move inot higher level positions. The federal government right now is investigating all current employees and their backgrounds in fact and more will lsoe their jobs for various reasons.

We live in a different world today where greed seems to control everything, and you really need to know what you want long term and research the jobs and schools you are interested in, as you may well find, even with a legitimate degree from a recognized regional institution, does not mean it will be accepted by just any employer either.

Schools are in business to make monies. Even non profits have to make monies to pay ALL operational costs yearly as long as they show no profit at end of year. Call it a game if you will. It is the way it is in Amercia.

I hope this helps, as I have investigated the "accreditation" phenomenon for a few years to get to the bottom of such a losely used word out there when it comes to ANY form of education.

#115

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If you want to learn about UOP(((link)))

M - SLC (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 POSTED: Thursday, March 22, 2007

Please read the U.S. Department of Education program review on UOP. The DOE interviewed 60 recruiters to produce this amazing report, you can find it at:

9th Circuit Opinion
United States ex rel. Hendow v. University of Phoenix
http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/ca9/newopinions.nsf/CE08057BF6F39DF3882571E0004AA906/$file/0416247.pdf?openelement

7th Circuit Opinion
United States ex rel. Main v. Oakland City University
http://www.kroplaw.com/uop/7th.Circuit.Opinion.pdf

Happy Reading!

#116

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SO far so good....

Phil - Bonner (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Thursday, March 22, 2007 POSTED: Thursday, March 22, 2007

After reading all of the good the bad and the ugly all I can say is, nothing.

I am currently enrolled with UOP online classes, I am week 5 in two classes. So far I no complaints as to what I have to do or what is exspected of me. My go-to person at the college has been nothing but helpful and has been rather up front with me on anything I have asked. And as far as 'brainwashing' that is to laugh. If anyone thinks they are or can be 'brainwashed' then the odds are they were lost at the starting gun.

Most of the people that have problems with the format are not all that computer savy or they are just not up to the challenge. In online learning you are in the drivers seat and it is all up to you to do just about everything but grade your papers.

And yes online learning is not an educations, but then again what the h**l does world history have to do with a degree in busness. Colleges take money for useless classes, I am trying to get the best bang for my buck.

#117

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Current Online Student

Keith - Molalla (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Monday, April 02, 2007 POSTED: Tuesday, April 03, 2007

I am appalled at what I have read. I am a current online student at UOP. I sat here and read every one of the rebuttals. From what I read a lot of the negative statements made about this school are from those who couldn't cut thte mustard in an online scenario.

I am currently in the eighth block of classes with only six more classes to finish my AA. I ahve enjoyed this experience very much. the one thing that I remember from one of my first classes was an instructor coming right out and saying that if we thought that this was going to be easier than sitting in a classroom, think again. this was going to be significantly harder than a conventional classroom. And youknow what? He was right. I have attended actual brick and mortar schools and have to tell you I have retained a lot more information from online learning than I ever did from a real classroom.

This is due to the fact that I had to search for a lot of the answers for myself and not have my hand held by the instructor all of the time. I felt like I accomplished a hell of a lot more having to go out on my own to research a subject than to have to constantly ask an instructor where I had to go to find information.

All I have seen is a lot of whining from a lot of people who probably just couldn't hack it in an online environment. This is a hell of a lot harder than anything that I have done in the past. I am a single father of a teenage daughter, I work a full time job, pay a mortage, car payment, and all of the bills that are associated with living a descent life and raising a teenager.

Unfortunately, I do not have the luxury of going to an onsite campus, so this suits me perfectly. I have had nothing but great performances from my counselors, advisors, tech support, and mostly my instructors. I do believe that you ahve a choice in where you get your education if it is within reach for you. But when you live better than an hour from any college, online is the only way to go.

All of my credits from previous colleges were accepted by UOP. I have had no issues with financial aid including with my tranfer from WIU to UOP. Everything has gone very smoothly. So if you think you're going to skate by with a degree from UOP, think again. You are going to work your ass off for it.

#118

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To Ron, and another poster

Tim - Oshkosh (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 POSTED: Wednesday, April 04, 2007

Ron, good post...YOu encourage folks here to be rational and calm, good advice. Would you feel rational or calm if think your mechanic cheated you? Its all good to say the UOP has a few bad apples, its inevitable for large corporations. But how can anyone make that claim when looking at the massive number of consumer problems on this site?

Ron, you claim the UOP is the school of the "everyman", that its not Harvard (who needs harvard anyway). But when the hundreds and thousands of "everymen" claim they are misled, ripped off, whatever, there must be something wrong with them? If we are to discount what they say as subjective and self serving, shouldn't we ignore what you say for the very same reason?

At the end of the day its easy to discount the accounts of all these anonymous posters because how can we know any of it is legitimate? Its much harder to discount the legal stuff, NYT article entitled "Troubles Grow for A University Built of Profits" that is out there, links to it are available on UOPsucks.com...Ron, how can you make the claims that alls well at this school in light of the facts reported by the U.S. Depar of Education? They interviewed 60 recruiters in two states....Its an ugly, ugly report....

#119

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Notes from a current UOP student

Julie - Russell (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 POSTED: Wednesday, April 04, 2007

I was intrigued to see UOP listed here in the Rip-off Report and was compelled to read on...

Brandon, I do not believe you are representing the school in a manner that they would be pleased with. After the first few posts, you lost all attempts at professionalism and even any civility.

It appears that there are many opinions about the UOP, but most are uninformed. I am a current student, and as such, feel qualified to speak.

My teachers thus far have been excellent. I am learning "things I never knew I never knew". While I have encountered a few "familiar" students in class, most have been new faces.

Many of the things I have learned to date have been things I am able to apply to everyday life.

Using techniques learned in class, I typed a resume'. I am already receiving responses. I highly recommend UOP to anyone willing to WORK for their degree.

#120

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Rebuttal regarding Brandon and UoP

Suzanne - San Antonio (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Thursday, April 05, 2007 POSTED: Friday, April 06, 2007

This is in response to CYNTHIA and all the other students that were ripped off from UoP. I was too and I left that school over a year ago. All of my credits transfered from UoP and I will graduate with my Bachelor's in Criminal Justice in August from ANOTHER ON-LINE UNIVERSITY that respects its students, time and MONEY.

Cynthia, I am glad you left.......if you want someone to join in with you in a Class Action Suit I will. UoP ripped me off and misapplied my student loans, and then turned me into the Credit Bureau for not paying them a balance of 388.00 that I did not owe! I will see them in HELL before they get another dime from me.

BRANDON.....who the hell do you think you are. IT IS AGAINST THE LAW TO RELEASE PERSONAL INFORMATION ON SOMEONE WITHOUT THEIR WRITTEN CONSENT. I am a Special Investigator for an Insurance Company and believe me you have set yourself up for a personal liability lawsuit to include UoP. It does not surprise me that UoP would condone your behavior or practice, you are a prime example of the TYPE OF PEOPLE they employ to RIP people off.

As I stated before, I would love to sue UOP's butt hopefully there will be a class action suit against them for ripping people off with their RUN OF THE MILL university.......

#121

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Understand your anger...

Billy - Owings Mills (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Sunday, April 08, 2007 POSTED: Sunday, April 08, 2007

Suzanne....

I think any of us are making a mistake however when we blame individual UOP employees for our issues. You said,

"It does not surprise me that UoP would condone your behavior or practice, you are a prime example of the TYPE OF PEOPLE they employ to RIP people off."

This is about the UOPs policies and leaders promoting certain business practices. Leaders in any setting are both responsible and ACCOUNTABLE for the actions of their team. If therefore a consumer is ripped off by a corporation, it's the company that's liable, when its employees act consistent with company policy.

The employees are just trying to feed their families, they didn't make the rules....

#122

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Troubles Grow for a University Built on Profits

Wayne - Reno (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Monday, April 09, 2007 POSTED: Monday, April 09, 2007

Google it if you have not read about it already. Here is an excerpt.

But its reputation is fraying as prominent educators, students and some of its own former administrators say the relentless pressure for higher profits, at a university that gets more federal student financial aid than any other, has eroded academic quality.

According to federal statistics and government audits, the university relies more on part-time instructors than all but a few other postsecondary institutions, and its accelerated academic schedule races students through course work in about half the time of traditional universities. The university says that its graduation rate, using the federal standard, is 16 percent, which is among the nation's lowest, according to Department of Education data. But the university has dozens of campuses, and at many, the rate is even lower.

In an interview, William J. Pepicello, the university's new president, defended its academic quality and said it met the needs of working students who had been largely ignored by traditional colleges.

But many students say they have had infuriating experiences at the university before dropping out, contributing to the poor graduation rate. In recent interviews, current and former students in Arizona, California, Colorado, Florida, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Texas and Washington who studied at University of Phoenix campuses in those states or online complained of instructional shortcuts, unqualified professors and recruiting abuses. Many of their comments echoed experiences reported by thousands of other students on consumer Web sites.

The complaints have built through months of turmoil. The president resigned, as did the chief executive and other top officers at the Apollo Group, the university's parent corporation. A federal court reinstated a lawsuit accusing the university of fraudulently obtaining hundreds of millions of dollars in financial aid. The university denies wrongdoing. Apollo stock fell so far that in November, CNBC featured it on a “Biggest Losers” segment. The stock has since gained back some ground. In November, the Intel Corporation excluded the university from its tuition reimbursement program, saying it lacked top-notch accreditation.

#123

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UOP is not a degree mill.

Thomas - Na (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Monday, November 12, 2007 POSTED: Monday, November 12, 2007

I have received several interviews with a UOP degree. Their problems are in their communication with students and the quality of some of the students they allow into their programs. They gave us a first time instructor for our student teaching seminar class. he did not know what he was doing. However, he was an excemption in my case. Most of my instructors were good. It seems to me that some of you that complain about the programs want to be hand-held. That may not be true in most cases.

What UOP did not do was tell me the things that I needed to do when I graduated to get a job such as taking the certification tests and how to apply for licensure. What I suggest for those of you in the education programs is to keep in contact with your supervisors for student teaching and obtain references. Second, pick one of the tougher schools to student teach in. I studnet taught in a school for all emotionally disturbed students. It is a wonderful experience. Finally, with the student teaching classes, you do not have the learning teams.

#124

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Don't base your decision off of someone's bad experience.

Thetruth - Houston (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Thursday, December 06, 2007 POSTED: Thursday, December 06, 2007

Let me say this to Cynthia, I am very sorry that you had to experience the bashing of this company's employer that was unprofessional and private information! Bless you in all you do!

But I will say to everyone that just because someone else had a bad experience doesn't mean the school is bad. As I read there were comments from people who had bad experiences with U of P and also some people who had good experiences. It doesn't matter what school you go to there will be complaints but don't let that make the decision of weather to go there or not and I'm not just talking about this school in particular I'm talking about any school. Now yes U of P might have rubbed some people the wrong way but they are doing something right they have over 300,000 students attending which makes them the largest University in N. America. And as far as the degrees not being accepted in job fields that INCORRECT....I work for a fortune 500 corp and they accept the University of Phoenix and will offer tuition reim. for the attending the school as well as other F. 500 companies. Enough said!

#125

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University of Phoenix is a successful and worthwhile school

Sarah Martin - Baltimore (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Thursday, February 28, 2008 POSTED: Thursday, February 28, 2008

Hello

Perhaps your "rhetorical" bashing of the University of Phoenix if you were capable of spelling the word 'ridiculous.' Perhaps you found the courses so hard also because you lacked the ability to work with peers and take their experiences and opinions seriously- that is how a successful business is run and also how the University of Phoenix is run- to facilitate learning AND prepare you for the 'real world.'

And in the real world you not only need to know how to spell words like 'ridiculous' but moreso you need to be able to listen to your coworkers or classmates when you step into a job where you work with other people- despite whether you find their opinions worthwhile.

The University of Phoenix is not only an accredited University that offers a wide variety of courses scheduled at different times and in different ways (online, on campus, directed study, etc.), but also offers challenging courses for ADULTS who are capable of handling a workload and learning skills (like tolerance of other students, work ethic, and a detailed core education).

Those who take their education seriously- for advancement, money, or personal accomplishment- have the opportunity to take advantage of an accessible, flexible University that can give them an accredited degree that is less time consuming and more attainable than anywhere else.

On a closing note, I work for the U of P and left my JD (law) program to represent the school, making far less than any "economically focused" school would BECAUSE I truly believe that the Univ of Phoenix is an incredible and respectable school that gives working adults options to obtain a degree AND BETTER THEIR LIVES than any other school could. I knew that working for such a school would force me to sacrifice some pay- but it allowed me to service and assist incredible students and be employed by a remarkable and bright staff.

Thank you,

Sarah

#126

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Oh Please!

Jonid - Sedona (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Thursday, April 03, 2008 POSTED: Thursday, April 03, 2008

Sarah and UOP Defenders:Oh please. There are years of complaints posted on this and other threads. Years of them. Perhaps you do work in a particular location where everything is hunky dory, but clearly throughout the university as a whole there are problems. Even for a very large institution, there are too many complaints to simply dismiss them all as grousing or students who just couldn't hack the demanding course work at UOP. Certainly some of the complaints are legitimate.

I recently quit attending UOP-online BSIT/VM after ten weeks and three classes. I did not leave because I found the work challenging or couldn't handle it. I had perfect scores, with the exception of one point lost in my first week for failing to post comments on all four days. I didn't spend hours and hours trying to do my work, my assignments would generally take me about a half an hour per week. But posting and dealing with learning teams took an hour or more every day. The trouble with this is the ratio, I was putting in loads of time on busy work, not on learning. I doubt that I am an exception. Now it took me very little time to do my work because I am a very good student and found the material easy. Before you charge that I didn't put much into it, so didn't get much out of it, I must ask you, put effort into what? The courses are fluff, and though the syllabus may make it look like you are going to cover and learn a lot, there is no rigor, no expansion upon or development of the material, generally most of it is never touched upon, and everybody gets an A.

the greatest problem facing UOP is the notion that students who don't have any prior knowledge of a subject, are going to somehow come to a thorough understanding of it by posting to message boards. It doesn't result in some deep and profound insight, it results in a sharing of ignorance.

As to those UOP boosters who claim that more of the information is retained through this method of learning, WHAT INFORMATION? DQs like, "Describe your computer database system at work" are pointless when the person who is supposed to describe it doesn't yet know anything about computer systems, and isn't required to go and interview the tech department to actually learn about it. So they post fluff and nonsense and get 100% for sharing their complete lack of knowledge, with a classroom full of people who also lack the knowledge so how would they assess it anyway?

I left for two reasons, the general lack of respect for the degree and the outrageous price structure, which was 35% more than I had been told it would be when I started.

The UOP degree is accepted in some fields, apparently education is one of them, which is a frightening thought. It is not generally accepted in the financial field or IT. Oh I know, someone will post that they got a job at this or that company on their UOP degree, but UOP is certainly not widely accepted or respected in many fields or at many businesses. This isn't hearsay or to take away from the pride some of you feel in your degrees, it is simply a fact. In the competitive world a UOP degree isn't likely to be much of a boost. Of course, in the end it is what you can do, not where you went to school, so there will always be successes and failures from any institution. But this one is very expensive and so I wonder why anyone would pay so much to receive so little back.

The reason employers don't want UOP grads is not that they are stuck up snobs, but because too many of the graduates exhibit poor skills in comparison to those who have attended other schools. This is not surprising to anyone who has had the misfortune to experience the learning team environment.

I would suggest that any student considering attending this or any school do a lot of research and soul searching in advance. How much will that degree cost? This may be a tough number to get out of UOP, but stick to your guns and demand the total cost figure, books, enrollment, transfer of credits charges (yes they charge for that) everything. Sit down and determine if that amount of money is really going to contribute that much more to your earnings ability in your chosen field. Then do cost comparisons with other schools and programs. You will find UOP is very very expensive for a fourth tier university.

Lastly consider the learning environment. There are no teachers at UOP, they are facilitators. Students are expected to learn from the online books and each other. The flaws with this have already been discussed, but to reiterate, I don't see why I would want to pay $1500 for a five week long chat session with people who know nothing at all about the material. And that isn't to cast an aspersion on the students who don't know the material, after all, they signed up for the class to learn, but then are expected to learn it all on their own with very little input from anyone except other students who don't know the material either. Also if you are a dedicated student, be prepared to in the best case scenario do 90% of the work for your five person learning team. Worst case scenario they will want to participate and foist their ignorance upon your paper, and argue about the fine points of APA, but never about the subject. But then you realize, it doesn't matter anyway, because everybody gets an A anyhow.

After going through this process, you will probably find better and more affordable options to pursue your dream of getting a degree.

Joni

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The UoP Saga Continues

The Monk - Marietta (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Thursday, May 01, 2008 POSTED: Thursday, May 01, 2008

After 3 years at UoP, I have one year to go and I am not finishing the degree there. I have lost some excellent classmates who have gone on to other schools. I get calls weekly to leave. I have been encouraged by facilitators to leave.

I have decided to take their advice. I tried to leave this month (May) but I missed the deadline.

I will be trying for the Fall deadline.

UoP has good intentions but poor execution. I'm not sure about UoP degree acceptance rate on the open market. I do know there are serious image issues that they need to address and fast. The online market that they dominate is fast becoming competitive. In fact I am leaving to go to another school online which is an extension of its very reputable brick and mortar program.

UoP advisors are incredibly uninformed and inarticulate. The learning team module is a great concept, the thing is it will only work if the caliber of the students remain high.

It is very frustrating working with fellow students who are reading at grade 9 and 10 level. Their writing is atrocious and leaves much to be desired. I guess its a symptom of the very lax admission policies.

I'd probably stick it out at UoP had it not been for the Learning Team module. You are asked to work with people for 5 weeks, in some cases for one course only. In a lot of cases a few of my team members are on their last class before graduation and they don't give a flying Eff about GPA.

I have had enough of the hit and miss strategy of getting competent people on my teams. I guess they are motivated enough to come to class, however that's just about it.

I believe in excellence. I find the bar is way too low at UoP. Any Joe Blow can enter the system and they frustrate the hell out of good people.

I do not begrudge those who have graduated or chose to remain. I am not writing this to discourage anyone from entering. I have learned a lot at UoP. I have had some excellent facilitators who actually teach me new things. University is 30 percent facilitated learning and 70% self education. I know this because I also attended regular colleges where the lecturer stands before 250 students and write a few things on the board and give a speech and you better have a magnetic brain or go teach yourself later.

I will stop here cause the more I write, the angrier I get. UoP has a good model and is wrecking it by allowing semi-literates into their classrooms. I will keep the board posted should my credits transfer or not.

Good luck

#128

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UOP is a top online university

Lasseterja - Virginia Beach (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Monday, May 05, 2008 POSTED: Monday, May 05, 2008

University of Phoenix has a large following in the business world as well as the defense industry. It is fully accredited with a great reputation. Am I a student of UOP, NO. However, I work as a Training Specialist for a General Dynamics Information Technology. We have many retired military with degrees from many different online universities and UOP is one of them. I would stack them up against any brick and morter grad, The bottom-lime is that most of the online learning colleges are well ahead of traditional universities in the latest trends and business practices currently in use. I have attended a mixture of both traditional and online universities. They both have pros and cons. You get out of it what you put in it.

One great advantage of working with groups online is the ability to network and work with others that may be weaker and stonger than you on a particular subject. This is more realistic to what one would expect to find in the real world. As far as facilitators go: The Department of Defense adopted this philosophy years ago with great success is training personnel. The days of group paced instructor led instruction are numbered especially with performance based training. Face it, I have set through many of lectures with hundreds of students while a professor went through a lecture. What learning took place? None, it has always been up to the student to make sense of all that information.

UOP and many other online universities seem to be taken a lot of flak from some less than informed people. I have seen both sides of the equation and can't see a big difference with exception of the flexibility of online learning for working professionals. The degrees earned carry the same weight with exception of an Ivy league school. Absolutely no difference between a UOP degree and a University of South Florida degree. Ask a Human Resources professional such as myself, I will tell you that a four year degree from an accredited university is the same at interview time. Grades and experience is the key, not the name of the university, unless of course you happen to have a Harvard MBA or MIT engineering degree.... well, you get the idea.

#129

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I am a current UOP student

Kdavis - Marysville (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Monday, May 05, 2008 POSTED: Monday, May 05, 2008

I am a current UOP student. As a single mother of a 2 year old, I decided to go back to school to further the education I didnt start years ago after high school. There are many great things about UOP. For one I dont have to take the time out of my schedule away from my daughter to go to school. Its not that expensive if you compair it to "traditional" colleges. I usually spend about 2 hours a night on my homework and readings. I do it everyday...to keep me up to date on the information. I do not know where this 30 hours a week is coming from. I am pulling A's in both my classes (just a fyi).

I do care about a GPA. UOP has never stated to me that they are better than traditional classes. But for what I can do it is the best. I am also going Part time to a technical school for Massage Therapy! I also work full time and take care of a 2 year old. So anyone wants to grip about how much time is needed...well you do not need to go to school then. You can buy your degree online somewhere...ive heard about those sites. I have yet to encounter a employee at UOP or Axia that is rude or of a non-helping type. I love my recruiter hes amazing and my teachers answer any questions I may have.

I think some people just have "Water Wet Syndrome"....youll b**** if your waters wet. People just want a excuse to get money out of a company so they do not have to work...I think that is the disgrace here.

#130

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lets not forget the basics

Curtis - Windsor (Canada)

SUBMITTED: Sunday, May 18, 2008 POSTED: Sunday, May 18, 2008

Some lessons Ive learned after having been screwed by a 'business/career/trade' college.
1)If the school is Private, stay away from it
2)If the school is for-profit, stay away from it
3)If the school offers people the ability to finish a course offered at a public college or university in less that half the time it normally takes, stay away from it
4)Do the credits transfer to other PUBLIC colleges and Provincially funded universities? if not, stay away from it
5)are there multiple posts about the institution on educational forums and on the internet in general that are negative in nature, if so, stay away from it
6)Does the school offer job placement assistance, guaranteed high paying jobs after graduation,scouts/employers from companies that come to the school to look for grads,a 70-90% graduate employment rate and a whole bunch of other really over-the-top guarantees?!,if so,stay away from it
7)Does the school have multiple 'campuses' spread out all over the country?if so, stay away from it
8)Is the school on the third floor of a scummy building? if so, stay away from it
9)Does the school seem to change names every couple of years? If so, stay away from it
10)Does the school go through a constant change of instructors and management? If so, stay away from it
11)Does the school employ ex-grads as teachers?, if so, stay away from it
12)DO they advertise on tv, have a 1-800 number and do they have glossy print ads? If so, stay away from it
-If I would've had a list similar to this before I enrolled in that institution, I would've thought twice about making said decision...It doesnt get any simpler then this. Basically your 'bachelors' is not really a bachelors, and your little 'masters' is not really a masters! Employers know what to look for, and all these 'business' college certificates arent worth jack. If you think for a second that this will fool an employer, it will not.
Bottom line:DO YOUR RESEARCH!!

Curtis

#131

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Armed Forces Commission

Sergeantrc - North Woodstock (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Friday, June 27, 2008 POSTED: Friday, June 27, 2008

Wow, there are tons of comments here. That alone should raise a red flag for anyone who is considering UoP. The real reason I wanted to write is because I have recently withdrawn from Uop and have transferred to a different school. Some credits matriculated, some did not. This decision to withdraw was made after speaking to an Air Force recruiter. He explained to me the the Armed Forces will NOT accept a degree from UoP for commission. For those who are not familiar with the military, a commission is what you receive when you become an officer in any U.S. armed forces. The major qualifying stipulation is that you have at least a Bachelors degree. For Uncle Sam to not accept a degree from this school says it all. I do not see any more reason to argue about whether or not this school is worth the time and money. If there is any doubt, why take the chance. The people who are paying for college are usually those who need a degree to earn more, which in turn suggests that they can not afford tuition in the first place. If you are going to barrow money for college. MAKE IT COUNT!!

#132

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Current UOP student with no complaints!

Yo Rodriguez - Hemet (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 POSTED: Tuesday, August 12, 2008

I usually keep my comments to myself; however, after reading some of the infantile name-calling and finger-pointing, I felt the need to put my two-cents' worth in the pot.

I am a current UOP student working on their teacher credentailing program in Southern California. This is a master's program. I already have a master's degree in music (obtained the old-fashioned way, from a four-year university).

My own experience with UOP has been, for the most part, positive. Let me start by rebutting what I have seen in this (and other numerous reports) about UOP's "hoodwinking" their students.

1. UOP does not tell their teacher credentialing program students that they have to take individual tests to become teachers-YES UOP DOES! I was informed about this at the first meeting with my counselor.

2. UOP credits do not transfer to other schools. I am unfamiliar with their online classes, as I attend their ground classes, so I cannot say from experience that those would transfer. But most colleges that students transfer to do not accept ALL credits. The more you move around, the less is transferable.

3. UOP lies about the cost of their program. No they don't. Again I was informed of the costs the first day, and so far the costs are what I was told they would be.

4. UOP does not give a quality education. Here I have to concede a little. Is a UOP education the same as a four-year university education? No. It is much more of a "self-service" type of education. But my classmates are not interested in getting a more "in-depth" education. They are already professionals that are looking to get the job done so they can advance in their career. And this is the type of student that UOP is for. If you want your hand held, then go to a four-year university. I believe that UOP should only accept students that already have college degrees who are simply trying to move up.

I am sorry that there are so many negative UOP experiences out there. Maybe this in only for the online classes? Or maybe I am just lucky that my counselor calls me several times a month to service my needs.

#133

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Any college is what you make of it.

Becky - Kennesaw (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 POSTED: Wednesday, October 01, 2008

I am within 6 classes of completing my degree in IT with University of Phoenix. I've attended more than one college so I transferred partial credits and have worked in the IT business for 30 years. I believe that any college is what you make it to be.

No college degree is given without work. Even though I've programmed for 30+ years I learned quite a bit in the programming classes presented. There have been classes that I've struggled with and others that I breezed through. However, I went into the program with realistic expectations.

The classes are expensive and the regulations are set forth by the Federal Government, not UOP. I've never had a problem with the financial aid, I've always made payments on time, and my credit has never been affected. I signed and contract, I completed my classes and I got what I paid for. Considering my son is looking at Endicott College where tuition is $24000 annually with another $8000 in room and board, and another $2000 a semester for various fees and books, the cost of the classes at UOP are in line with other Universities.

I've worked with a lot of people who came out of college with degrees and couldn't find their backside with either hand. I've also worked with a number of people who got their degrees from UOP and they were smart, educated, and well versed. I've been able to do homework at anytime during the day, go to school at anytime during the day, and schedule classes around vacations, my wedding, and surgeries that I had to have. No other school offered these benefits.

Maybe the problem isn't the school, but the effort and intent possessed at the time of registration.

#134

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Two Degrees from University of Phoenix

Joshua - Jacksonville (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Thursday, May 21, 2009 POSTED: Thursday, May 21, 2009

I have a bachelors of Science in Business Management and A Masters in Business Administration from University of Phoenix. I have read many of the comments and have to say that I have no qualm with University of Phoenix. During my time as a student it seemed to me that the vast majority of those who had issues with the University were those that were constantly dropping out of class and then returning at a later date or those that did not put forth the effort to actually learn something. I also have a bachelors degree in psychology from University of Florida (GO GATORS!) in psychology and I actually found the work at University of Phoenix to be more challenging than the work at University of Florida.

My MBA from University of Phoenix has served me well. When I finished my undergraduate at University of Florida I found it difficult to find a job. Don't get me wrong UF is an excellent school. The problem I had was with the type of degree that I received. I decided to go back and get another undergraduate degree in business. I did my research on many schools and ultimately decided on University of Phoenix. Upon completion of my business undergrad I found a much better job within a matter of weeks with a financial institution. I decided to go further and get my MBA with University of Phoenix. Since I finished my MBA two years ago I have been promoted twice and now earn almost three times what I earned just six years ago. Now I am the one in charge of hiring for my department and I certainly will not overlook a resume with University of Phoenix on it.

That's just my point of view. Take it as you will.

#135

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VERY SATISFIED STUDENT OF UNIVERSITY OF PHOENIX

Lumbeeapril - RED SPRINGS (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 POSTED: Wednesday, July 22, 2009

Anyone who says that UOP is a degree mill apparently did not take classes there and do the work that was required. I am a current student and have been for 9 months. I love the school, advisors and counselors. They have all been very helpful and try to make sure if there are problems I get the help I need. I don't want to call anyone lazy but in order to fulfill your part as a student you have to work hard. I work, have a family and go to UOP online. I have learned a lot and look forward to learning alot more.

If you are reading these comments and are planning to enroll at UOP, look at the dates. UOP has come a long way through the years and I am getting a very good education that will be hard earned not free. My GPA is 3.8 and I plan to keep it there with hard work and dedication.

Good Luck to anyone planning to go to school no matter where you attend!

#136

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UOP is a business and is out to make money like any other business...

M_eddie - Fredericksburg (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 POSTED: Wednesday, July 29, 2009

My issue with UOP is the fact that the learning teams are mandatory. I took 12 credits with them, trying to finish by Bachelor's and the first few classes were fine. I had 1 class where my grade was affected by some people on my team who just didn't pull their own weight; myself and the other responsible members had to scramble to compensate for them. I had another class where some members completed their assigned tasks but my 8 year old could've done better and my grade suffered because of it. I finally had it when there was a team member in CA who openly stated that she really didnt care about the class because it was her final class to finish her degree. She did not contribute as much as I did, did not provide the same quality work I did, BUT she still got a descent grade although she didn't deserve it. When this started to happen for the 4th class in a row, I dropped it and now they want me to pay 2K for the class.

I'm more upset that when I brought these issues to the instructor, there was basically no recourse. I felt like I had to constantly do someone else's work or accept a bad grade. The learning teams are meant to create a more robust, in depth understanding of the subject matter and to some extent, it does that. But there are many drawbacks that are not mentioned and are also not addressed; my GPA suffered BECAUSE OF the learning teams not because I didn't or couldn't do my work.

This is very frustrating, I don't have much more to do to finish my degree but what's the point if some random stranger's actions can affect my GPA so badly? I stay with them and deal with the pitiful learning teams and probably end up with a low GPA through no fault of my own; transfer to another college and lose so many credits I'd be starting over; or just give up and begin the re-payment of student loans that did not result in a degree? PLUS, owing UOP 2K for an unfinished class when it's THEIR learning format/system that's at fault? Finally, nobody at UOP cares about all this, of course.

How is this fair and what can I do....anybody???

#137

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I've been a student since 2003

M - San Diego (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Friday, July 31, 2009 POSTED: Friday, July 31, 2009

Many people who fail blame the school, facilitator, program and so on. But do they really want to learn something or do they just want to get a piece of paper? Learning takes some efforts. You don't just follow the steps instructors give you but you have to make an effort to understand the concepts. It's up to you to get anything out of the class. I learn so much from my fellow students and what they experienced in their real life situations.

I started my bachelor's degree program when I was pregnant with my son. I delivered him when I was in my 3rd class and I didn't have to take a break from school. I had a teenage daughter and a 2 yr old daughter as well, and my ex husband was deployed so I was pretty much like a single mother. I had a full time job and a part time job too. So I couldn't have gone to a school if it wasn't online. Guess how much sleep I could get when I had to deal with school and a baby? I often fed my son at my desk while I typed my paper with one hand. That's what it takes to earn a degree!

I got a BS degree and took a break but I went back to Phoenix Online for master's degree. I have 3 more classes to go. Now my oldest child is no longer a teenager and she's in college herself. My younger ones are in elementary school so I have to help them with their homework first but it got much easier for me to concentrate on my study. I still have a full time job and a part time job, am a single mother and I often volunteer at kids' school besides being a PTA board member. But I do have life too because I learned to manage my time!

To be honest, I failed one class each both in bachelor's and master's program and I ended up paying extra to retake the classes but I had no one to blame; I was dealing with some personal issues and should have taken a break but I didn't because I never wanted to give up on studying.

It's easy to blame others and quit, but it's your choice. You really need to work for what you want.

#138

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Corruption in Mesa

Inspector - Tobyhanna (U.S.A.)

SUBMITTED: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 POSTED: Wednesday, August 05, 2009

'David,

What the hell does me living in Mesa have to do with anything? Would it make a difference if I lived in Ahwatukee or Cave Creek? How about if I lived with you in Bullhead City?'

Yes, it would because they're not as corrupt as Mesa.

'Where I live has nothing to do with UOP, nor does it have anything to do with my character.'

Yes it does.

'I believe the posts you have read about Mesa have to do with the political aspect of the town; i.e., police and city officials, not individuals. In which case you will find complaints, whether written or spoken, about ANY city in the country that has a government body.'

Maybe, but not as many as Mesa. The town is a virtual Sodom and Gomorrah of corruption.

'Saying and/or implying that I or UOP are corrupt based upon the location where one of it's employees lives is illogical and unfounded.'

Birds of a feather. If the city officials are corrupt enough to allow corrupt enterprises. People tend to avoid cities with that kind of reputation, I wonder why?

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Report: University Of Phoenix, Online

Reported By: (Johnston Rhode Island)

University Of Phoenix Online Or UOP Online Pitiful excuse for an education sub-standard practices terrible counselors deceptive company Phoenix Arizona *EDitor's Comment

... Corruption in Mesa

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University Of Phoenix, Online

Category: Colleges and Universities

Submitted: Monday, February 10, 2003

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