University Of Phoenix Online Truth about UOP Online RIPOFF Phoenix Arizona

B is wack - Here's how we enrollment counselors do things...

Every fact in his diatribe from over 2 years ago is inaccurate. I am an enrollment counselor, and I'm not a used car salesman. In fact, I hate sales. We do not have a script to follow with phone calls, nor do we get paid on student enrollments.

Here is how we get paid, just so you all know. 30% of our job is speaking to people over the phone, educating them, and helping them enroll once they have all the facts. We cannot qualify people. If they chose to enroll after I ask them numerous times, "Do you understand how everything works, including the finance aspect?" then it is my job to make their enrollment smooth.

about 30% is student retention, or making sure to cover concerns, address issues, and pull out all the stops to make sure students are doing well and stay motivated and consistent in class. We work in teams of three. Enrollment, Academics (scheduling), and Finance (student loans and payment arrangements). This "graduation team" is dedicated to small groups of students and calls to check in constantly to make sure everything is going smoothely. No other school does this.

the final 40% is how we operate as employees. Firstly compliance with company, privacy, federal, and business policies is so highly stressed, that it's almost big-brother-ish. Our accrediting body (HLC), The Dept. of Education, and the SEC all oversee our day-to-day operations to make sure we do everything right. In 2 years at two separate campuses I have seen the HLC do walk-throughs of each campus twice.

Besides getting along and singing Kumbaya with my co-workers, we have to be experts on programs like FFELP, PLUS loans, Stafford loans, Pell Grants, compliance issues such as ADA, FERPA, GI Bill money, foreign students, and stringent student record protection policies. It's extremely complex.

I am a believer in this company. I acknowledge that their are SNAFU's, but that's why it's called a SNAFU. We try to go the extra mile to help people, and I am so gratified when a student finds their path again after quitting school 23 years ago because they got married and had kids, and are now walking across the stage with their HIGHLY valuable college dimploma from UoP.

Current Student

Ok, when I first came across this I was very concerned and right away made some phone calls and web surfing to get more information. What I found is they are a legit online college. I called and got the info from the very site you say they aren't. This was also recently done again in 12/2008 as you will see on the report. It does state UOP and not Apollo but Apollo owns UOP so that makes them legit.

Thanks,

http://www.ncahlc.org/index.php?option=com_directory&Itemid=192&Action=ShowBasic&instid=1949

UOP Voluntarily Withdraws NLNAC Accreditation

In December of 2005, University of Phoenix voluntarily withdrew NLNAC accreditation. That withdrawel is explained as "Voluntary Withdrawal: Month and Year
Program voluntarily withdraws from NLNAC accreditation
--Withdrawal: Month and Year
Action to withdraw recognition of accreditation due to refusal of accreditation or focused visit or failure to submit self-study, interim* or focused report as specified by the Commission

Interesting

UOP... is it your fualt that you bought the hype?

First off let me say to "B" thank you for a witty and fun read. I actually read the whole thread!

I have some questions of the responsibility of those who purchase the services of this corporate entity known as UOP. Do you not have the option to audit a course before you enter the semester or whatever your term is called? It would behoove anyone considering to throw 25-50k at a degree that they might want to check it out before hand.

Are you unable to find your degree requirements? Why do I hear all these stories of people not knowing what they need to graduate??? I remember in my time at Clemson I picked up a course book and sat down and mapped my degree myself and any trip to the couselor was just the freshman orientation formality.

Why haven't any of the UOP grads here who "rightfully" whine about the uselessness of their degree make a few phone calls to HRs and academic advisors to REAL unis that would answer your transfer and degree quality questions? All of them will tell you a UOP degree is next to worthless and won't transfer. It just takes a few calls.

Why didn't you people come online to threads like this to read reviews of UOP before you buy? I check online reviews of products under 100 bucks, I think you should do it for spending 25-50k dollars!

I will not blame you for getting the worst customer service known to man and getting a speal better than the best car salesmen to dupe you into attending this "degree mill" but couldn't a little investigation on your part have uncovered these facts before you jumped in?

Just because it is convienient doesn't mean it is a worthwhile degree. It is generally the ones that are inconvienient that are worth their salt, ie day classes. Next on the ladder is night/weekend classes at the traditional hub and your third resort is online at these well known institutions. The last resort are these for profit corporations with UOP being the worst. I had to quit my day job and work nights so I could go to just an in-state uni.

I just want to comment on these "you get what you put into it" remarks that all defenders of UOP use. I know someone who dropped out of Clemson to go to UOP in SC and his GPA at Clemson was a 1.65, at UOP it was a 3.95. He said that traditional college didn't fit his learning style, the only style he had was to come in hung over every day! Ladies and gentlemen, you seriously need to revaluate the value of a degree. Is it worth spending 25-50k on a degree that has a 95% chance of earning you nothing? The more trasitional your education the more it will be respected, I understand those of you with children can't ever do what I did but those who don't have an opportunity to attend in-state uni and get a degree that you will get the most bang for you buck with. The more your degree is respected the more it is worth. As B likes to state you wouldn't want a Pinto for the price of a Cadillac, go for the darned Cadillac!!!

UNIVERSITY OF PHOENIX IS A RIPOFF AND ALFONSO DOESNT KNOW WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT!

Where did u get your degrea from Alfonso? Why would you defend a non-acredited ripoff organization like university of phoenix. Why is University of Phoenix a rip-off? Because anyone can get in, anyone can pass, as long as you pay the money. How can you tell me an online university of phoenix degree is as good as my degree from the University of Florida? I moved hundred miles away, I studied every night, I didnt have time to work I went to school full time and it still took me 5 years to get my bachelors degree,I had to bust my but in high school to get in and then I had to spend money and time on SATs, and I finally got lucky and got accepted to a decent school and I spent 5 years busting my but to get my degree, and your telling me a degree from phoenix is a good degree, give me a break the only people dumb enough to enroll in the university of phoenix are dumb enough to graduate from it 20,000 dollars in the hole, which doesn't say much. If you don't have enough common sence to know a scam when you see one, you don't have enough common sence to be in college. I got an e-mail about a month ago from a counselor from UofP and I told them I graduated from UF, and that was the end of the e-mails. DONT GOTO THIS SCHOOL! If you cant get into a decent school apply to community college or University of Toledo in Ohio they have a 96 percent acceptance rate and they are acreddited and I would rather have one degrea from Toledo than 10 from phoenix.

To Joe

Joe,

Thanks for the shout out. To answer your question about the audit of courses, the answer is no. They do provide a course demo on their website but this does not outline the details like check in and learning teams which often come as a surprise to many who enroll.

The degree requirements are laid out within the site. However, the reason many people run into problems is because they overestimated their credit transfer, they were lied to about potential credit transfer, or the credits that did transfer did not transfer into the areas they needed them.

Basically UOP/AXIA is a degree completion institution. Most people have tried and failed or discontinued their degree in the past and are looking to transfer credits. The ability to transfer credits is a huge selling point. Some advisors use this correctly, some are dishonest. Any potential applicant can ask for a pre-evaluation but they must have access to their transcripts to have this done.

Most applicants do not use the pre-evaluation service because they are un-aware it exists. This is intentional as it can delay enrollment. When the pressure is on the advisor to make the sale, they do not want anything hindering the close. Even if an unofficial evaluation is conducted, it only shows total credits transferable and this does not always explain to the applicant how their degree program will be set up.

Lets say a bachelor degree is 120 credits at UOP. Lets say a potential applicant has 96 credits from a prior college with a major in math. They are applying to the Business program at UOP. They are told by the enrollment advisor that UOP can accept almost all their credits as long as it is from a regionally accredited college.

What they leave out is that UOP has a minimum residency requirement of 30 credits to graduate. So they may take all 96 credits but that does not mean the student will only need 24 credits to graduate, it just means UOP accepted them. The student will still take at least 10 classes to graduate. In addition, 36 of their 90 are probably in math and only a few will transfer at the upper level for the business major. They will still need to take 45-60 credits in their major at UOP.

So basically, it may look like UOP accepted all their credits, but their credit transfer and actual degree plan are very different. The problem is this. There is so much pressure placed on applicants to get started ASAP that they often to no wait for their official evaluation to be conducted before starting their first course.

They agree to start their course in good faith that the initial conversation with the advisor with hold true once their evaluation is done. They have often already completed 1-2 courses before they see their true degree plan which may come as a shock.

At this point they owe the college between $1700 and $2500. If they drop their financial aid will not pay for those classes so they choose to stay until their FA is dispersed and they can drop without paying cash for those classes. This is a total scam and it is done intentionally by UOP to increase their retention overview. Although those people eventually drop after their first semester of courses, UOP is able to repost retention after 1, 2 and 3 classes. SHADY!

With regards to educated consumers, I agree that much of the onus is on the consumer to be aware of what they buy before they buy. But UOP preys on aspirations and dreams of many desperate people. Many of their students like what they get and have no issues. However, too many do not and the carnage of these individuals make up the substance UOP now thrives on.

The vast majority of educated consumers are still ignorant to education. No one really knows what it means to have regional accreditation. UOP uses this to compare themselves to other colleges under the same accreditation such as Michigan and Ohio State. Does this mean that all colleges under the same accreditation are equal? No, but the consumer assumes that because a body is accredited by a regional body, they are good quality and legit. This is not the case.

While it is smart for potential consumers of UOP to investigate, being lied to about something while investigating presents issue for trusting consumers. I believe that a corporate entity, at the basic operating level, has an obligation to be honest with a consumer.

This is the art of the sale. UOP is notoriously dishonest with their methods. As a society we assign basic individual rights to a corporation. However, we overlook the fact that a person has at some level, a moral/ethical compass to navigate and govern them. Corporations have no such compass. We call it business ethics but the US Corporate track record on ethics is less than stellar.

Too many businesses operated their ethics based upon, “If we can get away with it, it must be ethical”. While I would like to place the responsibility on consumers in this case, UOP has a great disguise with their accreditation and Title IV to look like they are legit. Because of this it is too difficult for consumers to make heads or tails of them. This is why I fight the fight.

I hope that by deterring enough consumers away from UOP it will hit them where it hurts, profits, and make them change their ways. It is a pipe dream and the loss of a few hundred students is no issue. They must lose accreditation which is very hard to do, or they must lose Title IV which they just might.

There is no good solution to this problem. It will take time. UOP (Apollo) has placed their future in the 18-23 year old population. This is a gamble I think will backfire. Online learning is a great forum, but 18-23 year olds are often looking for and needing a different college experience UOP cannot provide. I believe they will lose this bet and their greed for growth will cause them to ignore their adult learner population and other colleges will continue to eat away at their market share.

This is the subprime of education

After doing some research I am glad that former employee's are telling the truth. I bet the guy from Citron Research who has been exposing this scandal would love to hear from you. I am all for funding students who want to better their lives, but to saddle a person with debt, promises of the ability to transfer credits, I had an admission counselor tell me that I could transfer to Yale and Stanford as they had the same accreditation. After calling both schools and have them laugh I was appauled that individuals who didn't think to verify their boiler room tactics are really being victimized. Would love to chat with the honest person who posted this as I think the DOE needs to hear this stuff.

Okay everyone here but -B is a little dilusional

Paul-you need to relax a little. You can't knock something you have never experienced. I happen to be very educated and still ended up at university of phoenix. I had a 4.0 in high school (a little higher because of honors and AP classes actually). I could have gone almost anywhere I wanted. I ended up at San Diego state. I had some unfortunate things happen in my life and had to work full time. With this, going to state full time didn't work so I went to community college part time. My employer offered tuition assistance for UoP and I saw that going there for what is considered full time while working would be possible and I was desperate to finish up...I checked to make sure they were accredited...they were. I knew it was going to be expensive but by this point I had the money and didn't care. Where the problems came was once I was enrolled I realized that there was not another person aside from me in any of my courses with more than half a brain. These people were having trouble with the very math I took in 6th grade. Considering I took 2nd year calculus my senior year in high school I didn't understand why I was in a course with these people. They couldn't spell, read, write...it was horrible. I found myself single handedly doing the group assignments. Upon getting out of there I realized that their credits don't transfer.

Alfonso-I would suggest you transfer to a real school because your comprehension skills lack. B in no way sounded disgruntled to me, he even admits he is not disgruntled. He was actually quite successful in his years working at UoP he just thought the story needed to be told. And don't think I am just defending him because he is talking bad about UoP (that would be an un-educated guess) because I do not agree at all with what Paul had to say. Oh yeah let them keep telling you at UoP that a degree only gets you an entry level position. You can get an entry level position without a degree. If you are intelligent now that you have been given this info (I didn't have that luxury) you will do your homework...check to see which schools or employers value a UoP degree. I will tell you what my old employer, an internationally recognized business will no longer pay tuition reimbursement to someone who attends UoP and neither will many other employers.

Please B keep doing your good work. Considering UoP prays on military families and single parents we need to stop them.

I just cannot get a better expert opinion

Paul - I find it comical that someone who has never done online education can just discredit it without ever experiencing it. Beyond that, it looks as if the University of Florida didn't help you much with sentence structure or proper grammar. If you really did your research you would find out that UoP is nationally accredited by the same institution that accredits Harvard, Yale, etc.

Barbara - Don't patronize me and tell me I should consider transferring because of my comprehension level, because I think your comprehension level lacks. How about you quit trying to sound like your so smart and look at the obvious miss 4.0 GPA. Anyone who comes to a public forum and deliberately tries to discredit any business has in some form or another a problem with that business in question. Do you really think that someone who enjoys what they were doing will post something like 'B' posted? It doesn't sound disgruntled to you because you agree with it.

Unfortunate

This University of Phoenix scenerio is unfortunate. Proprietary school often get the better of students Many of these students at these school are hopeful for an education. No on can blame them.

Unfortunately, most employers look at degrees like this and scoff. Furthermore, these schools often get their students in financial trouble after the empty promises of high wages fall through. I strongly suggest a state university of even community college over these paper mills. It really comes down to the fact people want to see you actually GOT OUT OF YOUR HOUSE and attended class. College is about learning, yes. College is also about making connection, networking, meeting new and different people with new ideas. You are depriving yourself of these things (and a decent education, by the way) by attending these paper mills.

University of Phoenix is a good school.

I think University of Phoenix is a good school, because I know some very well educated people who have tough there.

I have a retired uncle who is a former college mathematics professor at University of Phoenix, Denver University, University of Colorado, and Arapahoe Community College. He has a master of mathematics, and he has over 30 years of teaching experience in college algebra, integral calculus, probability, linear algebra, and differntial equation.

I also know a retired Douglas County Judge (who is also a lawyer) who teaches at University of Phoenix.

The bottom line is that when you are attacking UOP because you are upset at it, please do not attack and insult the teachers there -- that is very irrelevant and irrational. Attacking teachers and students at UOP by saying they are stupid would make your reasoning an ad hominem reasoning.

Thanks.

Every College has serious problems

1. Because you receive a paycheck from this college, you really are Polly Anna about it.

2. You shouldn't undermind the problems that many students have with business colleges as yours.

3. This web-site has saved me money, and many of the things that are complained about are true.

4. Consumers need a uncensored web site that allow a victims to give the facts about their own situation.

5. Shame on you, for trying to stamp out their right to do so.

There will always be unhappy people

No matter what company one deals with, eventually there will be dissasified consumers. Does this mean the company is bad? Go ahead and check the number of dissatisfied Ford customers.

I was an Enrollment Counselor for UOP for nearly two years. I was one of the oldest employees there, being 50 when I started. UOP is a University designed for the adult learner.

I never lied to students. I didn't have to. UOP is a fully Regionally Accredited College the same as Princeton or Yale. The classes are geared towards the returning, older student: those working full time with families and additional obligations but the desire to complete the education put off over their lifetime.

Are the classes structured differently than a traditional college? Of course. Adults do not learn in the same manner as younger students. Adults learn by experiential education, younger students by rote. Therefore the learning team structure of the program.

Are recruitment personal paid by-the-student? No. That would be a violation of Accrediation Rules, just as paying Atheletes to attend a college is a violation. Do violations occur? Of course, and they are dealt with.

Are the degrees worth the paper they're written on? Ask any UOP graduate with a Bachelor's or Master's degree in a teaching position. Name me one school who would say that just because the Bachelor's degree was from University of Phoenix they are not qualified to teach.

Finally, look at the CLEP program. Why can one take a CLEP test, Score a 50%, and yet earn six credits toward their associate degree? Does that make the associates any less valuable? Or is one simple earning college credits for what oone may have learned in their lifetime.

Unhappy People?

Let's not confuse dissatisfied consumers with outright exploitation of tax dollars, investment dollars and misleading/unethical business practices. You are attempting to confuse the real issue through misdirection. Do you work for the Bush administration, Big Oil, Big Auto? Similar tactics have been used lately to justify the war, and lack of recognition regarding climate change.

Perhaps a better analogy would have been comparing UOP/Apollo to Enron, World Com, Global Crossing, Tyco

Here is one real issue. Last week Apollo lost a lawsuit filed by shareholders and must pay $280 Million in restitution ($5.50 per share). This was the direct result of Apollo's failure to disclose a scathing review regarding unethical recruitment practices by the US Department of Education. It was determined that Apollo willfully and intentionally withheld this information from its shareholders.

This leads us to the second real issue. UOP is in the business of education. Their regional accreditation is through the HLCNCA. As a sub-note here, this is not the same either Princeton which is Middle States or Yale which is New England Association. This is typically the catalyst for Federal Title IV Eligibility. As many realize, Title IV consists of Federal Grants, Subsidized and Unsubsidized Loans, and Loan Forgiveness Programs. As Federal Programs, this means that American Tax Dollars are used to fund these programs. In the case of UOP, at last count they used approximately $2 Billion in Title IV monies. As an organization that generates approximately $2.5 Billion in revenue annually, where do you think the vast majority of the money comes from? Next point. Federal Monies were created and intended for the purpose of assisting eligible persons in obtaining a better education. The intent of these monies was not to be used for corporate profiteering. As mentioned above, the recruitment practices of UOP have been, and continue to be questionable. Specifically regarding usage of Federal Monies to entice would-be students to engage a degree program without using personal monies.

Often, it is not disclosed to or understood by prospects, that enrolling in only 1 course does not allow them access to the Title IV funds. UOP has a notoriously high default rate on Federal Loan and Grant faults. Title IV Safe Harbor Rules exist to stop entities from using what appears to be no out of pocket temptations in the recruiting practices. While UOP stands by its POLICY of compliance for the compensation matrix for enrollment, the PRACTICE has been and continues to be one of paying enrollment advisors bi-annually based upon the number of students that enroll for, and successfully complete, 1 course.

In short, the PRACTICE at UOP, regardless of the policy they put forth, is to pay enrollment based upon enrollment performance. Because UOP is a Tile IV entity, access to money is an obstacle easily overcome. In the end, UOP is using Title IV Tax Payer Dollars, to entice students to enroll with limited out of pocket expense, in order to pad new enrollment numbers and revenues to report to shareholders and attract new investor monies. Brilliant? Yes. Ethical? No.

So your point, and comparison to Ford it irrelevant and avoids the real issue. Dissatisfied customers are merely a symptom. The illness is far worse than any one symptom. I would agree that Ford shares a similar illness called corporate greed. They simply go about manipulating the American consumer through lobbyists, pseudo-science, and limiting government interference when it comes to their product's environmental impact. Don't worry, eventually the truth will come out regarding big oil and auto makers. The truth regarding tobacco is now front and center in the TRUTH television campaigns. These show the lengths Big Tobacco went to hide the truth about their operations and product. We will see the same type of social revolt against auto/oil because of the environment sometime in the future.

Sounds like disgruntled employee to me

I agree with Pap. B, your just a disgruntled employee who probably didn't get promoted and blamed the administration for your own downfalls.

I have been enjoying the UOP a lot and I have attended other universities. You can say what you want about the education, the transfer credits, the this the that whatever. It is all just nonsense. You people need to realize that you get out of something what you put into it. I am willing to bet that a majority of the people who sign up with UOP expect it to be easy and just a breeze through.

It is anything but that. For example, you actually have to 'read' your material to understand it. For the people saying that "You will be laughed out of the building with your UOP degree". This is nonsense and utter rubbish and anecdotal evidence at best. So maybe you won't get a CEO position for your first job. Here's a word for you people - "EXPERIENCE", that is what it really takes to get a good job. Your degree will get you into the interview for a decent entry level position.

So unless you are going to be an Astronomer, Astrophysicist, Nuclear Engineer, Mathematician, or any scientist for that matter I think the UOP is a great school.

University of Phoenix - UOP

To all:

it's nice to know that I am not alone with my feelings about UOP. I was fastly recruited by their swift talking recruiters to say the least. No wonder it was so easy to enroll with only an $85 enrollment fee up front and it was understood that my stafford loans would take care of most of the tuition.

The recruiter lead me step by step what I had to do, but he did it rather quick to have me in class in less than 3 weeks and not reiterating what everything would mean for me or what types of out of pocket expenses I would ultimately have.

I think my first out of pocket expense cost me about $800. OK, since I was making about $30,000 (in NJ and it's not cheap to live here) I scraped up the money in 2 months. That meant no going out with friends to socialize since I had to pay that.

I hated the group projects because most of the time I did all the work yet all the students in the group got my grade. So unfair especially when people live in different areas of the country or other responsibilities and schedules to follow.

Few, if any, were able to meet online to discuss the project. Then you have the professors (2nd Algebra class), I ran into one who was never around to answer the students questions and I failed it, not realizing that my stafford loan was not going to cover it. I got a B+ in the first Algebra class but failed the second one because the professor never responded to my quesions about what I was doing wrong...as with other students. And if you don't complain to the school about the professor in the first week then you lost your case.

Most of the time you don't realize there was a problem until more than half way through the 2nd week. After that class I began searching for another online college and stumbled upon Kaplan University. Kaplan is a standing name for more than 30 years of helping students study for SATs, PSATs, CLEPs, and more. Kaplan had a better classroom set up and at the time had 3 extra weeks to the schedule to really soak up what you were learning. The professors are graded twice by the students (in the 4th week and at the end of the class). Whenever there is a problem the department heads monitor the class and professor. Students questions are addressed immediately no matter where they are in the class.

Needless to say, it was not a difficult decision to leave UOP. Then my problem got bigger. When I decided to leave UOP and signed the documents saying I was leaving, they then sprung it on me that they could not give my transcript to Kaplan because I owed them $1880!

When you are barely making what it takes to survive at $30K, having $1880 is unheard of especially when you have a disease called cystic fibrosis and your money goes toward medications and doctor appointments all the time. Nonetheless, hear it is 5 years later and I am just starting to get the money up to finally pay the $1880 off to get those credits transferred so I can graduate. I hope they don't just take my money and tell me they cannot transfer my credits over. I am going to go through my attorney to get this done just to be on the safe side.

PS I found these complaints on UOP by accident. WOW, someone really is on my side.

Thank you,

Julie G. - Belleville, NJ

To Alfonso: What is it with you people? ..chalk it up to being the act of a disgruntled employee

Once again, we find another person who disagrees with something someone else is stating so they simply chalk it up to being the act of a disgruntled employee. Once again I find myself responding to an individual that thinks their own personal experience somehow negates all the other situations these people mentioned above have faced. All I did was legitify the NUMEROUS complaints and issues with UOP from an internal operations standpoint and a customer service standpoint.

I am glad that your experience has been positive thus far because it may mean that things are turning around there. However, it does not mean that the statements I made are any less true. I speak from an internal experience standpoint. So for you to chalk my statements up to me being disgruntled just because you do not agree is just plain ignorant. Look, Ill show you how ignorant it is to try and negate another persons first hand account by discrediting that individual. Lets take your scenario for example and I will do to you what you did to me.

Your experience has been positive with UOP. Well it sounds to me like you are just the type of person who is easily taken advantage of and just doesnt pay attention to what is really going on. The only possible explainations for your positive experience with UOP can be either that you have extremely low standards when it comes to level of service and quality, or you are either too lazy or too dumb to care.

See how lame that is? Just because I don't agree with you I simply place you in the realm of lying, being stupid or having an alterior motive for not agreeing with me.

So just keep ignoring the fact that what I say is actually true, and does come directly from personal experiences. Just stay in your little box of reality where only your experiences and opinions shape the fabric of everyone elses reality.

Or maybe, you could learn something, and use this information to protect yourself from falling into bad situations in the future. My purpose is simple. If someone reads the information and decides not to go, then no harm done. If they do go then they are at least aware of the risks and can protect themself from these situations. Best case scenario, the person has a great experience and no harm is done and if this happens often enough, the ratio of bad experience to good experience will shift, and pages like this will no longer need to exist.

So exactly what is it that you have a problem with?

Anyway, FYI, I was offered a management position in 2004 which I refused... Wait, there is no way that can be true because it does not fit into the reality where your opinion dictates truth and I was only a disgruntled employee...

The problem is with people trying to bring down companies

B,

I did in fact make my own assumptions about what may have gone down in your situation. That is just plain human intuition. Looking at what you wrote and how it was written to me it comes across as this: You had a bad experience with the UOP and now it's time to say something about it. Am I wrong with that assumption? I mean you had to have been mad at something.

The problem I have is with people coming into a public forum like this and try to ruin the credibility of an institution that is nationally accredited by the same accreditation company that accredits Harvard, Yale, etc.

The real kicker is the same people try to degrade the worthiness of a Bachelor's, Master's, Doctorate, whatever degree that is earned by another simply because it comes from the UOP. The funny thing is that a lot of these people have never attended the UOP or are even remotely familiar with the curriculum or how the classes work. Is that not ignorance by definition? I got news for a lot of you, many companies don't really care where your degree comes from as long as you show you have the skills to do the job. Now I will in no way sit here and say a UOP degree is more valuable or compares to a degree from Harvard or Yale, but in all honesty those people are very unique individuals to begin with. And they won't be starting in entry level positions wherever they go. Agree or disagree?

The whole implication that a college education is the end-all path to a great career is vastly exagerrated. A bachelor's degree in my opinion nowadays gets you an interview to a decent entry level position, and it is experience that naturally gets a very well paying job. I'm sure we all have seen times when it isn't 'what you know' it is 'who you know'.

There are bad experiences, there is no doubt about that. The majority of the bad experiences I have read here are all about money issues because they found out they had to pay more than they thought and all that jazz. I believe this is a case of just not reading what your supposed to before signing up.

-All the best.

WHERE IS "b" we miss you

Hey, b I hope you come back because (this sounds so dumb) but I miss you so much. I was laughing so hard at your witty and satirical remarks as well as the remarks of others. Oh my gosh! I hope no one was traumatized as a result of this debate. While some agree with "b" and some don't most of us have to admit that he has certainly raised points, about UOPO, that are worth pondering and definitely considering. I was flabbergasted at some of the points being raised on this forum.

However, if I was a former/current student of UOPO I would perhaps feel very wounded by some of the satirical comments, rather fact or opinion, that have been posted on this ROR website.

Although I am a graduate of UCLA I noticed that some of the students at UOPO online grammar and punctuation are much better than mine. Kudos... chin up! I know that we all get mocked-- but if you are intelligent it doesn't matter what school you attend your intelligence will persevere. I promise... Honestly, I was accepted into UCLA by over studying because I lacked the intelligence that many students have... For every one hour of their study I had to do three. I always made people laugh but not on purpose. Listen, so to speak, it is your dedication and hard-work that is going to shine through to perspective employers. Don't get me wrong-- you may have to send quite a few resumes in to perspective employers just like all of us-- I promise... it is your determination that will see you through even if you are a graduate of UOPO. It doesn't matter if your are an average student graduating from ANY university-- we all have to start at the bottom-- experience is the dominant factor when it comes to great jobs and high salaries, not that degrees are not important, but experience will take you to the top. On the other hand, I think that it is wise to use the information about UOPO accordingly. For example, I would not suggest someone who read this report and do the research on UOPO to go and enroll.

What I am merely suggesting is that if you have already graduated from UOPO or are soon to graduate is that you "keep your head up" and make the best of the education that you received. Don't give up... if this is any consolation some of my colleagues have a degree from UOPO. I am a high school teacher and I am not the smartest but I am a hard-worker and I just wanted to encourage those that might feel saddened by this information. Just make the best of what you have by letting the knowledge shine through and work for you... Chin up...

By the way, we are discussing education here so please don't be shocked if someone insults your grammar or ability to punctuate accurately. In defense of myself, English was my greatest challenge in college (LOL) but I did excel in math and science. I did really well in math and science so I must admit to you that although I am an educator (MATH Teacher); English in the form of grammar and punctuation are not my strongest points (LOL). The funny thing is that I am so sensitive about this weak that I would never post anything without first running it through spell check.

I hope "b" comes back I enjoyed him so much. I hope I don't ruin the reputation of UCLA by this super ridiculous truth that I am about to reveal-- but I feel abandoned by "b". I enjoyed him so much...

"b" I know people were cracking on you, so to speak, but some of us really appreciate that you had enough guts to make this report. You might not realize how many people you saved heartache. I hope all is well with you-- PEACE

Tara

Northcentral University

About a 15 months ago, I seriously looked into their PhD in Business Admin program. One of the major positives was the waiver of up to 30 of the total 81 doctoral credit hours through the completion of the UOPhx MBA (Man, I cannot get the "feel, felt, found thing out of my head!...yes, inside joke...).



The other positive was the online option for this program. Several of the UOPhx admin and faculty were attending for a PhD or DBA there and found it rigorous. (By the way, Dallas Baptist University has a small but challenging PhD research doctoral program, if anyone lives in this area, it is flexible and substantial.)



To respond about the removal of the Stafford Loan program at Northcentral, I corresponded regularly with one of the directors who had been there for five years. She said that the traditional Stafford loans were not available anymore because their programmatic format did not fit the criteria required by the Department of Education to offer these services.





In an effort to try to buffer the anxiety that these loans were no longer available, the university did a poor P.R. job with a short public paragraph on their website about the reasons for this change. For good reason, it was removed six months later.



Seems to be a pretty good school, smaller enrollment, personal attention, and pretty satisfied students overall. One of many places people can go to see students feelings about the level of instruction for schools is rate my professors. Some of it is pretty silly, but it does give students some feel for things there.

R.T.

Ex-employee, recent MBA grad

Good morning,



I am a former EC at the Dallas, Tx. campus. To preface this, I was a student at Baylor University and UT Dallas for a combined three years prior to becoming a student at UOPhx. Subsequently, I was at UOPhx for a year prior to becoming an EC there, and an MBA student for 1.5 yrs after leaving.

Some of the same frustration is shared with the original poster for many of the same reasons, including (but not limited to) the tremendous pressures to perform to the ever moving and changing matrix performance standards. Sadly, the poor communication with students by the FC's and AC's was another disappointing part of the administration. I feel it is a result of inadequate training and low job experience from high turnover. Ultimately, alot of EC's who cared (myself included) became the "go to" person for everything a student needed. Here is my more moderate take on things:

Is the education at UOPhx excellent? No, not excellent, but not bad either. It is impossible to gain the depth of knowledge on a subject in six weeks, compared to a traditional setting. However, there are a couple of things to note. If you truly take in all of the reading, simulations, and examples, along with completing quality writing, you will work your tail off and learn quick analytical, problem solving, and writing skills. And, as said by others before me, you get out what you put in.

Is it regionally accredited? Yes, Higher Learning Commission of the North Central Association.

There was an argument about the lack of student intelligence at UOPhx classrooms. The people who complained about the stupid people (as defined earlier in the thread) in class may have not experienced private traditional and state schools. Many "stupid" people obtain degrees from good univerities. I have three friends in the MBA program at SMU; only one has a good brain in their skull. One of two friends from an MBA at Duke University has a good solid brain. Of the many college grads I know, the degree did not necessarily make them any smarter, though they graduated with good GPA's.

What was obvious and sad to see at all the schools was students not take the responsibility to dig for written details on the rules at universities or the Title IV funding criteria. Were they victims of malice by a greedy company such as UOPhx? Maybe so. Were they victims of their own lack of initiative or research (ignorance)? Probably some of that too.

Here is the deal. There are other online options now than UOPhx. Some traditional schools have online programs. Students just need to take the necessary time to learn about the commitment requirements of each. UOPhx was a learning style and time frame that worked well for me. I like a fast-paced, intense program. I also know that UOPhx has a pretty good reputation in the North Texas area. Folks at TI, Raytheon, Diamler-Chrysler, Countrywide, etc. recognize the degree, pay tuition reimbursement, and promote people who graduate.

Last note, Northcentral University, (I believe you are referring to the one in Arizona) has NCA regional accreditation and a semi-happy group of student (per some of the forums on the web), however they had lost their Title IV funding status awhile back. You'll need acceptable personal credit to get private loans, or otherwise need to use their pay as you go plan.

Best wishes,

R.T.

R.T. You Are Incorrect about Northcentral

NCU never had their Title IV revoked. They willingly decided to stop using it. There are stories flying around about this situation but in truth, no sanctions or penalties were issued by the DOE or Title IV to force NCU to withdraw Title IV from their program.

You are correct abuot their financial options for funding loans. If you look at their website you will see that there are 3 main lenders, all are also Title IV lenders. Since the Title IV Stafford Loan Rate is tied directly to the Federal T-Bill, the rate is right around 7% right now. For individual education loans, they are based off of prime rate which is around 8%. The only difference is that the government does not "co-sign" for the borrower and relieve risk to lender so they are willing to loan money to borrowers that would otherwise be unable to borrow. If you read the website, NCU also has a Pell Matching Program for their undergrads.

Basically, there is no difference between private loans and Federal loans outside of the qualifying process. People tend to think that because a college does not use Title IV they are somehow inferrior. That is ignorant. I wish more colleges would do this. If forces down tuition costs and keeps the burden of paying for college of tax payers. It makes colleges more accountable. When you look at the embarrassing default rate on loans at other online colleges, NCU walks on water.

Feel Felt Found... Dear God

Thats some funny ish... I remember that DCBA and Feel Felt Found crap they tried to teach. Any consumer with 1/2 a brain new what an advisor was trying to do them and didnt like it. For those who dont know what were talking about it goes back to the sales manipulation tool I talk about in earlier threads. AMOPS, RAMOPS or RAMOPSR is what they call it. (Its an acronym...) The Feel, Felt, Found crap is about overcoming consumer objections in order to move move them to the sales close or the "S" in the acronym. When a consumer would express a concern about price for example, the adivsors were trained to take the following approach. " I understand that you FEEL that the cost of the degree is a little high for your personal budget. I have FELT that way before and and many other students have as well. What I have FOUND is that there is money available to ease the burden of paying everthing yourself through federal grants and loan program..."

Its supposed to make the buyer feel warm and fuzzy while manipulating them into looking at borrowing $46,000 for their bachelor degree. If you fall for it, you get what you deserve. No one ever seems to ask, why is your tuition so much? Or why is your tuition rate designed to use the maximum money availble to a bachelor student through Stafford Loans? If the price point was really about overhead costs and profit margins, the tuition would be lower. This is also why they opened up AXIA. No freshman or sophomore students were willing to fork out the additional $4000 and $3000 out of pocket dollars for the UOP bachelor degree. Look at the cost at AXIA, you will notice that the tuition is designed to fit just under the freshman loan max of $6500 and the sophomore loan max of $7400.
I might point out that UOP is not the only online college that does this, but they are the ones that forced the hand of the other colleges to appear competitive and not devalue their degree in the eyes of the consumer by charging way less.

UOP student

I was at a traditional four year college but once I had my daughter I was looking for a way to complete my degree and still be able to work. UOP was recommended to me by a family friend who is an MBA student. This is not her first MBA either she just loves education and studies in her spare time for her own fulfillment. I was leery of the university in the beginning but called the local hospitals to see what they thought of the degree and no one had any issues with it.

Throughout the enrollment process I did feel as others have commented on that I was being sold a used car. I have less than a year to go and I do intend to finish my degree. I have read several of the postings and find that there are a few intelligent individuals who do not discredit on-line learning, while others hate what they don't understand or feel they couldn't do, perhaps from a lack of self-motivation.

As with every institution you get what you put in, and the state funded traditional college I attended had some students that were lacking intelligence and could not form functioning sentences as some have claimed of UOP students. I have personally found that after the first 5 to 6 courses the students that were really lacking any work ethic had suddenly disappeared. The original post was very informative and I wish I knew when I originally enrolled some of the information I have seen posted but hindsight is 20/20.

I have never been one to comment on these types of posts but felt the original commentor deserved some applause for trying to help adults seeking to finish their eduation by giving constructive advise. I think that I have worked very hard to receive my grades and knowledge but I have always been one to do better learning through research rather than sitting through lectures. Unfortunately people who think only idiots are enrolled in UOP are supported by students who post ridiculous and insulting comments that are irrelevent and simply speak to the lack of their own personal knowledge or ability to read.

I am transfering to UF as soon as I am done with my bachelors to the pharmacy school and it is a doctorate program. My credits were transferrable but I do need to attend a community college to finish the required sciences but that would be expected. I wish all seeking to advance themselves good luck in what ever route works best for you and hope people continue to post helpful comments that encourage people to read the small print.

Is everyone taking crazy pills!

EVERY school faces these charges at one time or another. Every school. You do not become the largest university, accredited I might add, in the US by being unethical or corrupt. When you do so, you lose accreditation from the government from Title IV funding. This is what makes schools like the university of phoenix successfull on top of their degree programs. In regards to credibilty, the univeristy of phoenix has the most number of "direct bill" corporations of any univesity. Verizon, Lockheed Martin, the list goes on and on, just to name a couple. I've seen previous comments from people who claim to have been "top" reps. If they were top reps they would have been making so much money and been enjoying their efforts and being proud of their work that they would never have left. Everyone thinks they were a top rep, if they were the would not have left. I have been a top rep since day one, five years plus now. Anyway, it is all moot, those of us who are achievers will do well and prosper for years to come, while helping people achieve their dreams. The rest of you will gripe and complain as I expect, you have through out your miserable careers and lives! Good luck losers!!!

B & others I need your help. Was considering UOP!

I too am looking into going back to school for a BS in Marketing or Administration. I'm loosing my mind trying to pick a school. What is the best school to go to? I work and am a single mother. Time is an issue. I also can't waste the next 2+ years of my life on a bogus degree.

What school will translate into a career?

Strayer
Capella
Walden
NCU

I need student loans and grants to pay for school. I may also want to go on and get a Masters Degree.

HEEEEELLLLPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tonia

Hi Tonia

Walden is good but you need at least 30 transferrable credits to get in.

Capella is good but their tuition structure is a little funky and can run on the high side depending on how long it takes you.

Strayer, not sure about with the bach program.

NCU is in process of re-design and I have heard rumors that they are going Title IV for the undergrad program and re-structing it so teh price point will be abuot $25K for the degree. This si rumor and nothing soon. So for the safe bet go with Walden.

Good Luck

Online Vs. Brick & Mortar

B & All:

Thank you for the quick post. What accreditation should one look for when choosing an online school?

Wouldn't it make more sense to always go to a brick and mortar college? I mean as far as the degree turning into a career?

My fear of the b and m school is the attention and the system in place with some of these colleges. NCU seams to have had a system in place for quite a while. There are other schools too like Drexel and Penn State. They are limited in what they offer. Also, I have heard that the professors in some of the b and m schools don't get back to you in a timely manner. Since they are so new to this arena there isn't anything about them on the net, review wise, good or bad.

If money wasn't an issue wouldn't this be the way to go? Or are Walden and Capella just as good?

Other on-lines I've looked into are Belevue, Troy, Excelsior, UMass, Empire State College and Southwest.

What to do what to do. There are so many.

Think About It

I have attended UOP for a few classes, and began to wonder if I was getting what I paid for. After doing some research, and reading many of the post on this site, here is my opinion of UOP, and distance learning as a whole.

No large organization is perfect; many companies have problems with their finances, HR, and staffing departments.

Sure, I encountered some instructors who I felt were at UOP just to get a pay check, and others who really wanted to teach. Think about the people you work with, not all are perfect.

The learning teams are not perfect, there is always someone who does not pull his/her share of the work, again, think about your current work environment. I believe you get what you put into it.

Not all distance learning institutions are without fault. Use the search bar on this site, plug in another distance learning university, and see what comes up. From my research I have found similar complaints with all of them.

I had some trouble with billing, and it did take some time to get it corrected, but the point is, I stood firm, and got it corrected.

I have seen much about UOP not being an accredited university; many of you say the degree is not worth the paper it is printed on. Then, I had to ask myself, if that is true, why would my company, (We are the worlds largest in what we do) have a direct billing option to an institution that was fraudulent? Just does not make any sense.

Distance learning is not with out faults, and is not for everyone. Do some research before you invest; ask tough questions, then, make a decision.

Apollo Stock Option Investigation--Major Deficiencies

Look out, B. Today, the market is at an all-time high of over 12,000. Apollo stock, however, is now in full collapse--having plummeted 22% in one day to 36 bucks. The stock has now gone from 100 to 36 in two years and from 73 to 36 in one year; an almost unbelievable event considering Apollo is now bucking record market advances across such a huge expanse of worldwide equity investment.

In a letter to its clients, Prudential Equity Group stated, this collapse, "raises many questions about the health of the business model." We aren't talking about Title IV, exclusively, anymore; now, we're into an eerie
"Enron-esque, it's deja-vu all over again scenario." (Anybody out there remember Enron Field, home of the Houston Astros?) Now we have UOP Stadium, home of the pathetic, NFL laughingstock, Arizona Cardinals, which Wall Street wags term, "The Aviary of Incompetence."

Apollo may now have to restate past financial statements and has missed the deadline for filing it's third quarter report with the SEC.

Now, not only is the Attorney General of New York and the SEC pulling the string on Apollo, the US Attorney has gotten into the act with a subpoena targeting Apollo accounting and stock option practices.

I never dreamed Apollo stock would tank an additional 22% on the day Wall Street registers its all-time high.

WOW!!!!

Apollo (UOP) v. Enron--a stock collapse perspective

To follow up on my previous comments lets put into perspective Apollo's stock collapse with that of the late, not-so-great, Enron.

For the one-year period, Sept. 00-01 Enron stock free-falled from 90 to 38 dollars, losing 58% of it's market value.

For the one-year period, Oct. 05-06 Apollo (UOP) stock free-falled from 73 to 36 dollars, losing 51% of it's market value, ranking the Apollo stock collapse as one of the most spectacular of all time.

Even more "impressive" is the fact that the broad markets (Dow, NASDAQ, S&P 500) have registered spectacular gains over the past year.
Enron caught the 9/11 whammy, which really exacerbated the situation.

Now, Enron stock ended up at 30 cents. I'm not claiming that'll ever happen to Apollo. What I am saying is don't think that buying stadium naming rights will lend UOP any more credibililty to it's shareholders or enhance it's academic reputation. UOP's biggest fall came AFTER they were dumb enough to pull the Stadium stunt.

Other companies have tried to give shareholders/clients "warm-and-fuzzies" by buying stadium naming rights, like, say, Enron Field (Houston Astros. Or, how about Adelphia Coliseum? (Tennessee Titans) Or the TWA Dome (St.Louis Rams)?...seems like buying stadium naming rights is, these days anyway, the Kiss of Death.

Tonia

The online education industry has forced the hand of the traditional colleges to be more flexible to students. Bascially, it has made all colleges look at students as consumers of a product/service/commodity in stead of just applicants. Only certain colleges can afford to just wait for the top applicants in their state or the nation to apply to them. Anymore, educational consumers have demanded more which is why you see so many brick and mortar traditional campuses offering online programs. The problem is that ground campuses lack the infrastructure and the "know how" when it comes to entering the online market. It is a totally different animal.

It would not always make sense to look at a B&M over an online. Many B&M online offerings are still structured much like the ground courses simply becuase the college does not know of a better way to do it. Not to mention, these B&M's are only looking to appease the needs of their current student body, many of which want to just take 1 or 2 online courses to compensate for schedule restrictions. This means that the B&M online format is often much different that colleges that focus on online.

Ultimately, you need to make the decision based upon a few factors: 1. Schedule (Do I work a 40 hour week and have a life, what program fits around that NOT what can I fit around a program)2. Time (if I make this work, how long will this take me) 3. Content (What are these classes like, is it conducive to my learning style) 4. Program (How does this program related to my educational/professional goals? 5. Cost (What will the cost me, what will me return of investment of time and money get me?)6. Options for payment. (What options are available, what do you need as a student).

A good college will help you answer these questions. Again, if you feel more comfortable with ground then go there.

Good Luck

sorry, …allowing you to give a competitors name would instigate others to just file against their competition, to only come back later to suggest their company… your comments on this policy are welcome! CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.

UOP seems to have bought their way out of the tight spot they were in...

This is an Article taken from aacroa.org about the tactics UOP has used to position themselves for the upcomming lawsuit. What it looks like is that the DOE (Mistakenly) gave UOP legal documents outlining the plaintiffs entire case. Seems a little questionable to me. In earlier posts I mention that they are in trouble if they are not allowed to buy their way out of this one, looks like they found someone in the DOE who was willing to play ball with them. In any other legal case, the defense team would be thrown off the case.

Department of Education Error Resulted in University of Phoenix Receiving Sensitive Legal Documents
According to the Chronicle of Higher Education, the U.S. Department of Education provided sensitive legal documents to Apollo Group, the parent company of University of Phoenix, including the entire legal strategy for a whistle-blower suit against the firm. The suit, which was recently reinstated by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, could leave the school liable for billions of dollars it received from federal aid programs. The plaintiffs allege that the aid was fraudulently obtained.

The documents were provided to Apollo Group over a year ago after its lawyers filed a request for their release under the Freedom of Information Act. The Department contends the documents were “released in error” and has requested Apollo Group return them. Apollo is refusing to do so saying the documents are now part of the public record and were obtained legally after “intense and protracted scrutiny at multiple levels within the department.”

Lawyers for the plaintiffs are reportedly incensed and plan to move that the firm representing Apollo be disqualified from the case. "It's as if we had a burglar come into our office and rummage through our files," a member of the plaintiffs' counsel told the Chronicle.

The case centers on whether the school paid illegal “incentive compensation” to recruiters and admissions officers. The U.S. Department of Education bans any “commission, bonus, or other incentive payment based directly or indirectly on success in securing enrollments.”

UOP Student

UOP STUDENT
Completed degree course qualifications August 2008
I am so glad I stumbled on this sight and the UOP discussion
I would love to talk more to 'B' the originator of this discussion
I also would love to build a case against UOP for frauding me out of money because I know currently they are trying to cheat me out of money out of my pocket and while this started because I had a zero balance after my student loans and they were going to actually owe me money, six months later here I am still fighting with them and I keep going up the chain, though technically I haven't made it that far up I will eventually. Every month that this is still being in question I get bill that go up exactly $200 and they keep telling me to disregard them and not even a week later I get a threat letter from them basically telling me to pay in full within a week or else. Now the letters are up to $1000.00 but they are telling me by phone or email one day it's 5 hundred something and the next it's seven hundred something. After 3 months I was pissed off and I let them know I was not going to be given the run around. I have been unemployed for one year due to a manager job lay off at an urgent care that was no fault due to my own-economic reasons-even have a recommendation letter from the physican owners stating that and what a great employee and asset I am. I have outstanding background in medical, transfered to UOP because my friend talked me into transfering with her to the polaris location in Columbus, OH. in Dec. 2005. Now that I am finished, no one has laughed at me yet but I can't even get an interview for them to laugh at me. How shitty is that. The financial advisors are noncompationate, liers, and I could go on and on. They do nothing but talk circles, you would not believe the shit they have said to me even if I told you.

My husband wants me to stop talking to them because he says I am waisting my breath and I should just contact an attorney and channel 10 and 6 on your side to get the media involved. Now that I have read what is listed on here for the past 2 hours or so I am thinking he's right. My education at UOP was sometimes a joke, though I did meet some very intelligent instructors a couple were dumber than I and they were suppose to be teaching me. I did learn quite a bit during my time there, mostly because I wanted to learn. As stated in some previous statements some people that were there did not belong, but on the other hand maybe I was not the one who belonged there and is was a college for the less intelligent. Just cracking a joke, don't anyone go and take that personal. I received A's a few times when I know my work was less than that but, there were times that I received lower grades than the grade that I felt I deserved. I have already informed financial advisor (my last one of probably 20 in the past 2.5yrs) Ruthelle (I can get last names if necessary)and manager financial advisor Dietra (which if I live in Columbus, OH and attend their campus in Columbus why are all of my advisors in Phoenix, AZ?)that I would never again attend UOP and told them about all of the bad experience everyone else made me aware of my first 1.5 years at the school and because I did not have any large out of control problems like they did I brushed it off and they would tell me wait until it's time for you to graduate you'll understand then.

I told both of those finance assholes that I now see their frustrations and wished that I had stayed at Devry online and their school was the biggest mistake that I had ever made and I would not be attending their master's program I was going to take my next $50,000 to another school. Now I can only hope that I can get into another college and not have to backtrack any for a degree I already completed. I should post some of the emails that have went on between finance dept and myself it would amaze you, really. I have never seen such poor customer service skills. I was very civil and patient until 2 months ago and then I snapped, I can't take their lies and deceat anymore. How do you fight a billion dollar company when you can't even get a job. They won't even talk to me on the phone anymore because they can't answer my questions directly and I force them to answer directly because I don't except their circle talk so instead I get a half assed email that is one or two lines.

All I want is my peice of paper that apparently isn't going to get me far and it hasn't done shit for me yet because I have been searching for a job for a year and I have been completely finished for 6 months now. Would someone with a criminal/law background care to share some advise. I don't care to have any comments about me being disgruntle, angry, bitter, and so forth because though I may be I have every right to be when someone is trying to take money from me, treatining me, and holding my degree basically for ransum.
Ashton
Columbus, OH

Shocking news 'B'! need information.

I came across this discussion by accident, looking for other information UOPO. I am suppose to start UOP this coming week, now I am having second, third, fourth and fifth thoughs about it.

But my situation is a bit different from all of you, I am an international online student. Maybe 'B' can give a little advise on the possible pit falls that I might face. I am not reading alot of positive feedback from people who started UOPO, I am really concern at this point.

Here is a college that is known world wide, there has to be some good structure in there. Every where you look, there it is in your face UOP/UOPO.

Talk to me!

g-man
International Student

g-man

Regarding the market saturation of UOP in the US and around the world, I would say that brand recognition is a different situation than brand quality. As UOP was one of the first to market in the late 70's and 80's they have had a 20+ year head start over most any other entity. This means that people recognize the name brand of University of Phoenix. However, this in my opinion has no relevance to UOP's true brand quality. Again, in my opinion UOP has been a great success at building brand recognition/expectation but a terrible failure at delivering on those expectations. After all, Enron had great brand recognition for a while but how was their quality? You would find it difficult to locate someone who did not recognize Michael Jackson or Britney Spears as they both have great brand recognition, but this is very different than how people personally feel about these two celebrities. High brand recognition and poor deliver is why blogs like this one and many others exist about UOP. Keep in mind, this blog and this entire site will retain mostly negative feedback about any institution or entity listed. Hence the name Rip Off Report.

With regards to your possible experience as an international student with UOP, I cannot speak from first hand experience as an international student and I was never an international advisor at UOP. I would tell you to ask your current enrollment advisor how long he or she will hold on to your file before handing it over to an academic advisor. For most regional students at UOP, the EA holds this student file for 1 class and then passes it off. This is where a significant decrease in customer service occurs. Most of the academic advisors at UOP are overworked and underpaid dealing with 300-500 students at any time. Beware that your support in the UOP program by advising may significantly drop off after your first course. If you are self-directed this should be no issue. The one positive I can say about UOP is they retain the most robust international academic and enrollment team anywhere in the industry. They are years ahead of pretty much any other online entity.

There is no reason to rush this. I would postpone starting right away and explore your options. Check out Walden, Capella, Argosy, Northcentral, Strayer, Grand Canyon. They all have options for international students. If it turns out that UOP is still your best option then start classes. I think you will find a better option exists.

You saved me B!

WOW! First off gotta thank B for this thread. If there is anyone out there who still thinks UoP is legit, your plain crazy! This school is an absolute scam in everyway.

I just recently moved states and almost went on with the enrollment process until discovering this facinating website. I have my AA and I'm looking to finish up with a bachlor's in business marketing.

I inquired about UoP via e-mail since I kept on receiving their ads. I was contacted bright and early the following day a by a representative who asked me a few brief questions then directed me to a live enrollment advisor who convienetly worked at the closest campus to my home. Yeah he did a good sale to lure me in the next day for a 'meeting'. Without any waste of time he had me on the computer filling out info for financial aid.

After touring the campus briefly and looking in some classrooms I thought what the heck i'll give it a shot. Later that day (yesterday) I was having some tech issues with FAFSA and FAW so I called my EA only to get pitched some more bs about the program. Still unaware of the whole scandel I was doing an online search about UoP and found this website. I have not yet told my EA that i am not going to attend but I sure can't wait too!

Just a prediction...The Cardinal football stadium will not hold that untrustworthy school's name on their facility for long.

I feel like Neo...

Red pill or Blue? Glad I could help you wake and see the farce called UOP.

As for Cardinals Stadium, I see two problems.

1. University of Phoenix Arizona Cardinals Stadium sounds funny...

2. The Phoenix is a bird that rises from its own ashes, the Cardinals are birds that play with their heads up their own ashes... ur, I mean, anus's... How do you pluralize anus? Is it Anai? like syllabus and syllabi? As in, "after getting screwed by UOP many people experience sore anai..."

HA!

University of Phoenix

As an instructor I must say that the UOP nursing BSN and MSN programs are very competitive with other well known universities. Their Bachelor of Nursing program is better than some other colleges that I have taught in. I hear people in this forum slander and speak about the university in a very derogatory way.

For starters, The GRE, GMAT are not necessary for graduate study. There has been ton's of research done on the pro's and con's of these tests. A person may have a very low score on the GRE yet be an excellent student. The study groups are what the students make them to be. The syllabus is very detailed and the instructors take the proactive approach of facilitating. This is more conductive to the adult learner.

We deal with a population of non-traditional students,which are the older adult. Any University or College has to have regional accreditation in order to confer degrees. Then they need to be accredited by other agencies such as the National League of Nursing or the CCNE fro the nursing program. This accreditation is not easy to obtain.

To the people that say that their degree is a joke and not accepted by their employer id very difficult to believe. It is an accredited university and if Harvard, and any state and private university accepts their degrees and credits I don't see why people are knocking down this institution.

Many people see UOP as an easy way of getting a degree, but you have to work for that piece of paper just as hard as another university. All counselors, in any university, especially in a private university need to meet a quota of enrollments per year. In some universities the counselors and advisors are the professors themselves.

To Robert

My counter argument here may actually support some of what you say. However, it still backs my original points with regards to overall program quality, candidate screening and dollar value.

First, your point regarding the BSN program has some validity. It does have higher academic quality and higher success completion rates. While this is true, the reasons why such things are true go to support my original point. First, the BSN program is a COMPLETION program for registered nurses. This means that most have completed at least an LPN program with at least some academic standard if they are licensed in their state. What this means is that the candidates are already pre-screened based off their professional license and therefore this fact lends itself to result in higher quality applicants coming into the BSN program. This cannot be said for the rest of the bachelor/ AA programs which make up the rest of the degree programs at UOP. In addition, the UOP program is a CCNE accredited program which means it is required to follow a few rules and regulations other programs do not. For example, I believe that CCNE will not accept a D grade in any course from a student. If a D is received they must retake the course. The other catch is that they cannot re-use Title IV funding to pay for a retake after a D grade. The loophole is that the student can retake the class and use Title IV if they fail the class. So what you see at UOP and many other programs is a grade scale of A, B, C, F.

Your point is taken that the BSN program retains a higher quality, but that is only because the applicants and students are already held to a standard by their profession and licensure, the inverse academic curve seen in the vast majority of the other UOP programs is not there. In addition, even if the BSN program retains quality, that quality is still not justified by the $17,000 price tag. There are other less expensive programs out there that are on par or better than UOP's

You are also right that the GRE and GMAT may not be the best tool to use for candidate screening in every instance. HOWEVER, this does not negate their usefulness nor does it eliminate the need for some type of screening process for candidates entering a program. Most “legitimate” online colleges (Walden, NCU, Capella) not totally focused making money (UOP, AXIA, AIU, Kaplan) use an essay and minimum GPA requirement to screen applicants. And wouldn't you know it, their success rates are higher, their drop rates are lower, and their default rates are lower than those colleges that do not use screening. What this means to serious students at UOP is that they have to allow (time) to filter the riff raff out. Although they are paying $1500 for a class, the learning team environment and OE structure of UOP means that the lazy or stupid students sabotage the entire class and draw down the overall value of the learning experience and therefore the entire degree. There is a reason that UOP is known as a diploma mill and the drop rate in the first 3 classes is higher at UOP than any other Title IV college.

As for your statement about all regional accrediting bodies and therefore regionally accredited colleges being the same, well, you're simply wrong.

First, many of the HLC entities outside of the NCA take issue with the total number of online colleges accredited by the NCA. It is mostly political because colleges under other accrediting bodies outside the NCA are losing students and being basically forced to accept credits and degree programs from all NCA schools, online or not. With that being said and to prove my point to you, contact ASU and tell them you are a bachelor student in a general ed program at UOP Online and ask them if they will take the credits.

As for this statement, “All counselors, in any university, especially in a private university need to meet a quota of enrollments per year.” Sorry, you are wrong. Only the boiler room colleges that base reporting to shareholders strictly on enrollment growth do it this way. Believe it or not, but privately held colleges and academically sound publicly trades colleges do not have this as a problem. Walden does not base reporting to shareholders strictly on enrollment growth. They pay stock dividends and attract a different type of long term investor. This provides room to avoid boiler room tactics seen at UOP and Kaplan. NCU is privately held so there is no shareholder reporting and therefore no quotas for advisors. Your point there is a straw man argument. “other online colleges do it” does not make it okay. In fact, the enrollment tactics that UOP uses are in direct violation of Title IV Safe Harbor rules as I outline earlier in this thread.

I can appreciate your passion for defending the college you represent. I think you might want to examine the entirety of UOP. While the BSN and MSN might retain valid quality, it is not nearly enough to compensate or overshadow the negative aspects and impact UOP has on the entire educational industry and the social system as a whole.

To Stefin

I had not heard of SMWW until you pointed it out. I was surprised to see that they actually have an articulation agreement with Northcentral University for the MBA or PhD/DBA Sports management programs. NCU is a pretty good online college. If you plan on completing a masters degree then this might be a bad move depending on the college you want to go to after the fact.

HOWEVER, I would caution you on looking at SMWW accreditation. It does not offer its accreditation info on the website which probably means they are nationally accredited by DTECH or some other body. This isn't necessarily bad, but you will be limited in your ability to use this/these degree/credits to transfer into other regionally accredited colleges or apply for some masters level degrees. It looks like they have an articulation agreement with NCU which means you have to take specific classes at SMWW to qualify for the masters programs at the regionally accredited NCU.

Your call, just make sure you look beyond the next step to where this degree will take you and the options you will have for continuing your education after you finish.

Later

Question about a different online program

Blue pill of course...just kidding I like to stay up late.

Anyway I have a question for you or anybody that knows anything about a degree from sports management worldwide. The web address is smww.com. I'm not trying to become a agent or scout but I would like to know if the sports business management degree would benefit me as far as a degree and its qualification in the 'real world'. I'm looking more to get into sports marketing or something of that nature.

Obvisouly it's not as qualified as a business degree from a traditional school but I am just curious if the degree is worth my while. If you can give me any info on this it would be appreciated.

UOP SUCKS!

Gina, A Typical UOP graduate student.

I don't get it Gina, just why are you annoyed at B? He is only trying to warn people about problems at UOP.
You of course are a very good demonstration of those problems. Let's go through your rebuttal point by point.
1. You state that B is an employee and has an MBA. First off, he states he WAS an employee, and the rest of your point is? Go ahead, help me out, give me a clue as to the hidden accusation I assume this statement contains.
2. B has been doing this for years. He isn't writing academic papers, but even so, I really don't notice a problem with his spelling or grammar. This is contrary to your second to last sentence, "your" is possessive, "you're" would have been correct. More to the point, at least I can figure out what B is writing about, with you I am having a tough time.
3. As a grad student at UOP you know you don't have professors, you have facilitators. So, is your point that the school really does suck, because of a lack of quality, no profs and high cost? If so, why attack B?
4. UOP gave him the degree, why would they question it? Or is your point that anyone who questions the quality of the UOP degree should have it revoked? That's a little scary Gina. Just think about it, whoops, you're a UOP grad student, that might be tough.
There you have it. A UOP grad student, with a four point attack on B, and the points make no sense. Welcome to discussion groups.
Hey Gina, just curious, what advanced degree are you pursuing? I'll bet it is education, huh? Am I right, or am I right?
Joni

UOP and B---rad or was it Brian ..Buddy...I warned you not to go work there.

didn't you work for Debt Free before that? If this is you...why did you prank call that company after you quit? LOL Hope all is well and glad to see people fighting that evil empire/ "sweat house" shack house. What a joke. Everyone who goes over there high on life believing that is the job to work...ends up furious and drained after working there. Very sad. Oh, lets not forget Miss "O"ndrea Watkins.....the ultimate recruiter! Lady now does hiring there. She worked other jobs and actually recruited people on those jobs to go to UOP!! Wow..solicitation at its finest! And the woman got paid for the referrals!! Can you say the UOP Draft?? LOL

From a Consumer/Employers Perspective

U of P. I researched this organization while I was looking for an online option to continue to advance toward my degree.

What I found.

1. Accredited colleges will not accept credit transfers from this ‘unrecognized' institution.
2. Corporate entities now use big three credit reporting services to validate higher learning degrees. They do not recognize University of Phoenix.
3. University of Phoenix is a well known entity for predatory lending and collection practices.
4. A long history of government sanction and practice renovations to accommodate challenges to their Title standing.

So if you would like a degree that will not be recognized by real colleges or the types of companies you would HOPE to go to work for and you'd like to enter into an indentured servitude type of relationship with a well known predator – go ahead and sign up with this organization!

My Response

To The Employee:
Yes, I am a graduate student with the UOP. Now my rebuttal.

1. You state you are "an employee" with a "graduate degree, MBA."

2. How can you even begin to call individuals "morons" when you cannot spell or utilize spell check. Besides, are you not a "graduate student?"

3. The treatment that I have received from financial aid and the "professors" is rather questionable. I have spent over 30,000 for my degree and the education that I have received is not of "quality."

4. You need a course or two in PR. I would hope the University of Phoenix would investigate your questionable degree and the attack of those who do question the University.

Shame, shame on you for your are lacking in a "quality education" if you indeed even have one. Shame, shame on you for attempting to "even" represent the UOP.

Some thought regarding both sides of this coin

I read the main report on this matter and can understand the frustration felt by "B". I too worked there and started taking classes with this "school". First, I would like to say that the responder named "PAP" is incorrect in saying that Harvard is accredited by the same organization. This is what I heard from many employees while working there and it is false and comparing the two is like comparing apples to oranges. To open minded individuals, please look closely at all of the comments made on this matter, some show severe bias and some have merit. The degrees offered by the school are proven to offer 50% of the actual education which was published after extensive research by a professor I had in the past. He had researched 100 proprietary education organizations and found that most schools in this category were aggregiously low on the amount curriculum offered and that the standard fro graduation was far less than traditional schools. This is not something that can be easily disputed since the research was conducted without specific bias and did not attempt to single out and particular University.
"B", you are fighting an up-hill battle. The kind of people that create an institution like UOP are what corporate America is built on. Many of the issues that American economics are having stem from the tactics used by these executives. The sad part is that these executives move from companies like UOP and pollute other institutions and industries with their "at any cost" mentallity. These executives are self serving and care very little about the long term affects of their actions.
For example, I now work for a smaller private school that held a strong reputation in academic excellence that has been recently compromised by the UOP mentality. Just to reinforce the acceptance of this practice, the ex-UOP executive that has moved to my new school was sued for a variety of unethical business practices and was promoted instantly to the top executive position within the company and has further lowered the reputation and quality of the degrees offered.
The fact is that until these unethical executives are exposed and forced to change, nothing will change.

Some final notes

Wow! PAP seems to be one sold sucker. After reading the "back and forth" commentary i ask why would anyone entertain his brainwashed opinions. "B", you sound like a person that cares about the big picture and should not waste your time with small minded people like him. The guy that sat next to me in class that stopped at the bar or smoked a "doobie" before class graduated with a 3.8. So obviously there is no merit in his self validating statements and rambling about the minimum criteria that UOP meets to obtain these accreditations. Just because they can meet the minimum requirements to get by with accreditataion, doesn't mean we need to be thrown their names and addresses by someone desperately trying to give value to their over-priced degree. Just feel safe in knwoing that "PAP" will never be competition in the job force for someone like yourself. I think of UOP like McDonald's. Just because they are on every street corner and can offer a similar products to quality restaurants doesn't make them quality or healthy. Oh yeah, I'm sure they are licensed and approved to conduct business and sell food. So this argument has little merit. So let's let PAP stay in his fog so he can continue managing his branch of McDonald's with his "degree" from UOP.

Online Learning is not for Everyone - UOP is an Excellent School

I have been in attendance at UOP for a few years and will graduate in a few months. I have also attended brick and mortar colleges and have experienced success at both. Over time I have learned that there are simply two sides to every story, and then there is the truth. I cannot comment on B's allegations of corporate behaviors at Apollo, but I can tell you it has never been my experience to be pressured by any employee of UOP. It is clear to me that “B” is simply a disgruntled employee who doesn't have the courage to post his real name to allegations which are likely untrue. B is doing a disservice to himself and future potential graduates of UOP and other online colleges by casting Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt (FUD) without a single ounce of credibility.

Apollo is a for profit college designed to provide a quality education for working professionals. It is true that a UOP degree may not compare to one from Harvard, Stanford or many other fine 4-year brick and mortar schools. It is also true that attending one of those fine colleges is generally impossible for most working adults with a family.

Let me address specifically some of “B's” points:

B: “Yes, advisors are trained to lie and manipulate. I did this training myself they call it the AMOPS process. It is a technique used to manipulate leads into buying a product. “

A: So you are basically saying the every single advisor at UOP has no integrity, work ethic or moral compass. I highly doubt it. If my boss asked me to do something unethical, illegal, etc., I would quit. In your own word you were one of their top performers. If everything you say is true, then you lied to hundreds of students. So that would basically make you a liar. Why should I believe what you say now?

B: “Yes, advisors are paid off of the number of enrollments. It's called the Matrix; they changed it in 2004 to look more in line with requirements of the DOE. This led to a record number of pay decreases across the board, a record turnover rate for employees, and a mass exodus of their top advisors. “

A: Yes, I believe it has been established that UOP was not in line with some of the methods they used to stimulate enrollment. They have discontinued this practice and it is no longer an issue. UOP isn't perfect and I can't blame them for developing employee programs which actually gave the employee incentives for success.

B: No, the degree is not looked upon as being high quality. I attended the ground campus with 2 managers from Intel here in AZ and they showed me a memo that went out to their managers stating that they are no longer allowed to hire graduates of the BSIT program at UOP.

A: Yes, this is true. Good thing most of the people reading this have no desire or plans of working for Intel. It is important to note that Intel's decision also eliminated hundreds of other colleges. In fact, “The giant chipmaker now will pay for classes only at business and engineering schools with blue-ribbon accreditation.” Blue-ribbon accreditation is only provided by the AACSB. UOP is accredited by the ACBSP.

B: No, you will never be cleared by the collections department.

A: This is simply ridiculous and undeserving of an intelligent response.

B: Yes, EAs will tell potential student that student loans do not need to be paid back.
A: Really? This would be illegal; having knowledge of this makes you an accessory to a federal crime. So why would I believe you.

B: Yes, the CEO once said that he wanted to be the Wal-Mart of education. Obviously without the low pricing.

A: Good for the CEO. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be the biggest education institution in the world.

B: No, the cost of tuition increase has nothing to do with expenses; it has to do with showing income on the books.

A: Yes, the cost of tuition has to do with maximizing profit. They are a for profit school.

B: Yes, there is a promotion every month.

A: Sounds like good business model to me.

B: Yes, you should select your own lender and choose to have the funds distributed to you, even if that means you have to wait to start and pay for the first class out of pocket.

A: My lender has sent all payments directly to UOP. I have never had an issue and have received refunds when appropriate.

B: No the people who defend this place have no clue what they are talking about.

A: Yet another ridiculous comment and undeserving of an intelligent response.

Online learning is clearly not for everyone. It can be very challenging at times and my experience has been that it is far more challenging then brick and mortar schools. Lower division classes at all colleges can be very irritating due to the tire kicker students who aren't really cut out for college. Yes, there are many students who have enrolled at UOP, signed up for student loans, didn't do the course work and ended up getting a failing grade and possibly a bill from the University. Yes, if you owe the University money, they will not release your grades.

If you have nothing good to say, don't say anything at all. There is more credibility in your message if you post both the good and the bad. If you contend to have been a valued employee, who participated in violations of federal law and lied to students…how are you better? You should be ashamed of yourself and you should have reported unethical or unlawful behaviors to the appropriate authorities.

If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

If you continue to do what you have always done, you will always get what you have always gotten.

My Concerns about the University of Phoenix

My report on the UOP is probably the one read the most.

Certainly one working for the University of Phoenix would be in denial. However, one must consider that a 3 hour course is 45 hours of instruction. The university of Phoenix at 20 hours of instruction is 20/15 or 1 and 1/3 credits.

Believe what you may, but Phoenix cannot be accredited, if you believe it is you shall see soon that the hours you have spent in this instution have been wasted.

Actually Phonenix being 100 hours short of an associates degree is proof positive that Phoenix is simply not accredited.

Phoenix at 800 hours of instruction, when it should be 1800 hours of instruction (40 units of 120 hours x 20 hours at Phoenix) is a rip off.

Say what you may being a worker for Phoenix, but indeed you may be held criminally liable for knowingly and willingly ripping off students in this degree mill scam.

I still have litigation against Phoenix, and I intend to Prevail. Your University of Phoenix took in 2.1 billion dollars in Title IV student aid dollars this year. Please! - this is more money appropriated than that appropriated in any state in the United States.

Form a different angle, Money not Appropriated to Congress is appropriated to the states. Do you really believe that Phoenix is constitutionally correct? Suppose you do? I'll pray for you! The rapture is near folks!

To Pap from "B" ..while I may of touched a nerve with you, you are none the less wrong about the organization and your assumptions about me

If you would have read my item you would notice that I did not argue about their association with HLC or NCA for their accreditation.

However, if you actually research accreditation, (try the UOP campus database mr 3.98 GPA which I might point out is nothing spectacular at UOPO), you will learn that colleges that do not require a GMAT or GRE are missing a certain accrediting body and that DOES mean something! Ill let youi figure it out.

As for your assumptions about me and the organization. Again, you are on the outside looking in. Yes, they did pay EA's based off the number of enrollments they did but had to change that practice after catching heat from the DOE. You see, they had a bunch of people take advantage of the their old matrix for pay scale. I was one of them who was extremely successful.

The problem was that they cannot pay on commission so once you achieve a certain level of pay, their matrix did not allow for any increases. People settled in and did the normal amount of work because their was nothing to motivate. They changed their whole business concept after the investigations and lawsuits. Cheap labor became the goal.

So while I may of touched a nerve with you, you are none the less wrong about the organization and your assumptions about me. I have often noticed that people who do not know what they are talking about resort to insults. I would have assumed that have your special degree and HIGH GPA!!! would have afforded you a better approach to a discussion. I guess we were both worng for assuming.

And queue angry retort from Pap in 3,2,1, action...

If "B" had a Brain-cell he Might be dangerous

While you got a Few of the names correct, this does not prove that he knows what he is talking about, since the Names CAN be found when doing a search of the internet.

Since UOP's Accredidation is with the North Central Association, which is the SAME Accredidation Body who Accredits Harvard, Yale, Purdue and University of Chicago, as well as Every other Accrediated College or University in the United States, as well as Many other countries in North, Central and South America, his BELIEF that UOP is not accrediated, or that their accredidation is some how Faulty, is B.O.G.U.S. and among the Greatest Fantasy's I have ever encountered.

If you do not believe this, then you can go to the USDept. of Educations Website, type in "University of Phoenix" in the Search Line, click "Search" and it will List Every one of UOP's Ground campuses PLUS the Online Campus, Click ANY of those Links and it will tell you who they are Accresited with. The North Central Association and the National League of Nursing Accredidting Comission. THOSE are 2 of the TOP Accrediting Bodies this Planet Has.

Here is the Link to the US Dept. of Education Search

http://ope.ed.gov/accreditation/Search.asp

Also, your Supposition that they pay per enrollee is so far OUT OF WACK that it is not even Funny.

Anyone who has ANY Concept of the Reality of Business, KNOWS that you are REQUIRED to live up to a Certain set of Standards and to Work to a certain set of Goals. THAT is waht the Matrix is Based upon, that and NOTHING MORE. you get regular Reviews and if you don't live up to those goals, you do NOT get an Increase in pay, if you do you do get an increase in pay.

"B's" suppositions tell me that he/she DID NOT live up to those goals, and so they got Pissed off and left over it.

I am sure that those at UOP-Online are GLAD you are gone, so they can get their work done in Peace without your Moaning and Whining.

Do EVERYONE a favor, and Grow Up and realize that you are NOT going to get anywhere in life until you can take RESPONSIBILITY for your OWN Actions and Not Blame everyone else cause you cannot Live up to YOUR Responsibilities and cannot Live Up to your WORD.

Until you can do that, you will get NO WHERE in life.

You are the Definition of a Disgruntled Ex-Employee.

MY MBA is Recognized for what it is, AN MBA, with a 3.95 GPA.

You probably ended up with Less than a 2.0GPA, didn't you?

The ONLY Ignorant comment in those who defend UOP are that they have not Slammed you for the Sniviling Little Crybaby that you have proven yourself to be.

GROW UP and Take Responsibility for your own actions, or Lack thereof.

You want to see their accreditation?

SIMPLY go to the United States Dept. of Education website:

http://ope.ed.gov/accreditation/Search.asp

Type in University of Phoenix, Click "Search at the bottom of the page, Then click ANY one of the Campuses, and you WILL see that their Accreditation is NO LESS than Harvard, Yale, Princeton, NYU, UCLA, U of Texas, Purdue, or ANY of the Other Large Institutions in this or ANY OTHER Country.

You really hit No Nerve with me, you hit the DisHonesty of your Statements

Everyone Do your Own Research of this information to see which of us is correct.

This will Prove that "B" is nothing but a LIAR and obviously a bit disgruntled since he obviously was a Less than Standard employee. If he wasn't he would not have gone to this extent of Whining.

Accreditation Statements
FAQs (in general)
Affiliations
Accreditation Statements
University of Phoenix is accredited by The Higher Learning Commission and is a member of the North Central Association of Colleges and Schools.

30 North LaSalle Street, Suite 2400
Chicago, IL 60602
(312) 263-0456
www.ncahigherlearningcommission.org

The Bachelor of Science in Nursing and the Master of Science in Nursing programs are accredited by the National League for Nursing Accreditation Commission, Inc.

NLNAC
61 Broadway
New York, NY 10006
(212) 363-5555
www.nlnac.org

The Master of Counseling program in Community Counseling (in Phoenix and Tucson, Arizona) and the Master of Counseling program in Mental Health Counseling (in Utah) are accredited by the Council for Accreditation of Counseling and Related Educational Programs.

CACREP
5999 Stevenson Avenue
Alexandria, VA 22304
(703) 823-9800
www.counseling.org/cacrep

In British Columbia, the University of Phoenix was accredited by the Private Post-Secondary Education Commission (PPSEC) in 2002. That agency is now called the Private Career Training Institutions Agency (PCTIA).

PCTIA
1185 West Georgia Street, Suite 850
Vancouver, BC V6E 4E6
(604) 660-4400
www.pctia.bc.ca

FAQs
What is accreditation?
How is the University of Phoenix accredited?
What is regional accreditation?
What is national accreditation?
What is programmatic accreditation?
Why doesn't the University of Phoenix apply for more than one regional accreditation?
Other FAQs
AACSB
NLNAC
CACREP
What is accreditation?
Accreditation is a process of quality assurance and review that institutions participate in, generally on a voluntary basis. Accrediting "associations" are most often groups of like institutions whose purpose is to establish standards by which appropriate practice can be judged. Accreditation is a symbol of the quality of an institution's educational programs. Accreditation indicates both an institution's compliance with the standards held by accrediting bodies and the "reasonable grounds for believing it will continue to meet them.

How is the University of Phoenix accredited?
The University of Phoenix is accredited by The Higher Learning Commission (HLC) and is a member of the North Central Association. University of Phoenix was granted initial accreditation in 1978 and the accreditation was reaffirmed in 1982, 1987, 1992, 1997, and 2002. The next comprehensive evaluation visit by The Higher Learning Commission will be conducted in 2012.

What is regional accreditation?
Regional accreditation is an institutional-level accreditation status granted by one of six US regional accrediting bodies. According to the Higher Learning Commission, this type of accreditation evaluates the institution as a whole assessing "formal educational activity" as well as "governance and administration, financial stability, admissions and student personnel services, institutional resources, student academic achievement, institutional effectiveness and relationships with constituencies inside and outside the institution.

What is national accreditation?
National accreditation is granted to specialized institutions—technical schools, health or computer related institutions, for example—that offer at least an associate degree. The national accrediting bodies recognized by the U.S. Department of Education are:

Accrediting Association of Bible Colleges
Accrediting Bureau of Health Education Schools
Accrediting Commission for Career Schools/Colleges of Technology
Accrediting Council for Independent Colleges and Schools
Association of Advanced Rabbinical and Talmudic Schools
The Association of Theological Schools
Council on Occupational Education
Distance Education and Training Council
What is programmatic accreditation?
Often associated with professional organizations, programmatic or specialized accreditation applies to specific programs or coursework within an institution.

Why doesn't the University of Phoenix apply for more than one regional accreditation?
Accreditation by more than one regional accrediting body is not permitted by the US Department of Education. Regional accrediting bodies grant accreditation to an institution as a whole regardless of where it may operate, even locations that fall outside of a regional body's geographic scope. Additionally, the six regional accrediting bodies recognize each other's accreditations. Seeking additional regional accreditations is therefore unnecessary.

AACSB
What is AACSB International?
The Association for the Advancement of Collegiate Schools of Business International provides an additional level of "programmatic" accreditation for traditional business schools. Along with other activities, the organization promotes management education at traditional schools of business.

Is the University of Phoenix accredited by AACSB?
No. Since the missions of the University of Phoenix and AACSB differ, the University has never sought accreditation from AACSB. The University of Phoenix, however, is a member of AACSB and in that capacity shares in the exchange of ideas about creating quality business programs.

Does this mean the University of Phoenix is not accredited?
No. University of Phoenix, as an institution, is regionally accredited by the Higher Learning Commission (HLC), previously known as the "Commission on Institutions of Higher Education of the North Central Association of Colleges and Schools (NCA)". HLC and the five other regional accrediting associations provide accreditation at the institutional level for colleges and universities across the US. However, the University of Phoenix has not sought the additional programmatic accreditation for its business programs since organizations like AACSB are designed to promote the characteristics of traditional business schools.

How does University of Phoenix differ from "traditional" business schools?
University of Phoenix is a teaching university with a highly focused mission: to serve the educational needs of working adults. The University's teaching/learning model is designed specifically to meet the needs of this population, whereas traditional business schools serve a traditional age group and place a greater focus on formal rather than action research. For this reason, AACSB's focus requires the large majority of faculty at institutions accredited by them be full-time professors with doctoral degrees. Conversely, our model requires a faculty member to be academically prepared at the doctoral or master's level, but additionally they must be practicing in their fields. This is a more appropriate model for a University whose primary focus is to serve working adult students who expect instructors to balance the teaching of theory with practical application.

Are there differences in the courses in the programs at AACSB-accredited business schools and non-traditional business schools like University of Phoenix?
Both groups offer similar courses, although there is variation among AACSB-accredited schools as well as non-traditional universities in the specific required courses. The University of Phoenix adheres to the suggested course content for AACSB accreditation, since it reflects generally accepted skills in the business profession.

Is there any disadvantage to a University of Phoenix graduate since the University is not accredited by AACSB?
No. Employers have not expressed a preference for business school accreditation. Regional accreditation, like that of the Higher Learning Commission, which accredits the University of Phoenix, is important for students seeking employer reimbursement and federal financial aid.

With respect to the academic issues, we believe our students greatly benefit from being taught by practitioner faculty who are experts in their field. This allows our students to integrate and apply the content knowledge to their chosen professions. By adhering to this model of instruction, the University of Phoenix is better served by not being accredited by AACSB.

NLNAC
What is NLNAC?
NLNAC is the National League for Nursing Accreditation Commission, Inc. NLNAC is recognized as a specialized accrediting body, which grants specialized accreditation to "nursing education schools and programs." For more information on the specific standards required to obtain NLNAC accreditation please visit www.nlnac.org.

Is the University of Phoenix accredited by NLNAC?
Yes. The Bachelor of Science in Nursing degree received programmatic accreditation in 1989 and the Master of Science in Nursing degree received programmatic accreditation in 1997.

CACREP
What is CACREP?
CACREP is the Council for Accreditation of Counseling and Related Educational Programs. CACREP is a specialized accrediting body formed as an affiliate of the American Counseling Association (ACA). CACREP grants specialized accreditation to "counselor education and related programs." For more information on the specific standards required to obtain CACREP accreditation please visit www.counseling.org.

Is the University of Phoenix accredited by CACREP?
Yes. The Master of Counseling program in Community Counseling offered at the Phoenix and Tucson campuses as well as the Master of Counseling program in Mental Health Counseling offered at the Utah Campus are accredited by the Council for Accreditation of Counseling and Related educational Programs (CACREP, 5999 Stevenson Avenue, Alexandria, VA 22304: www.counseling.org/cacrep); 703-823-9800.

Affiliations
The University also maintains voluntary memberships with numerous educational organizations, including the American Council on Education, the Association of American Colleges, the American Association for Adult and Continuing Education, the American Association for Higher Education, the American Assembly of Collegiate Schools of Business, the Council for Adult and Experiential Learning, the College and University Personnel Association, the Arizona Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers, the American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers, the Independent Colleges and Universities of Arizona, the American Association of Colleges of Nursing, the Western Institute of Nursing, the National Board for Certified Counselors, the National Association for Foreign Student Admissions: Association of International Educators, the National Association of Veterans Program Administrators, the Service Members Opportunity College, and Defense Activity for Non-Traditional Support. Additionally, the University maintains memberships in various professional, program-specific organizations.

One more for Pap

By the way Pap, since you seem so devine in your wisdom. You may want to look at who Harvard is accredited by. It is not the North Central Association. It is actually the NEA. There are a few different accrediting bodies based around region all under the HLC. Can you tell us why,(since you know so much) Arizona schools are accredited by the NCA when they are not actually in that region? (I can)

Also, since you know so much, why dont you contact UOPO and ask them if they have the AACSB accreditation. Here's a hint. Because the majority of their grad students could not pass the GMAT exam nor are they willing to take it.

As for your very insightful glipse into work ethic and the employees of an organization you know nothing about. Let me explain what happened at UOP during my time there. Now with that big brain of yours I would like you to try and revert back to your MBA program, specifically the Human Resouce Management class. Okay, do you have it? Good, you will need it in a moment.

As for your claim that UOP does not pay enrollment advisors based upon the number of people they enroll, well, all I can say is that you never worked there or you only started working there within the last year.

Here is a little glipse into the scenario I was in during my time there (and how I know all the names of people that work there). I started there in 2001. The performance matrix was based around a few different criteria. (Lead to contact ratio, lead to conversion ration, referrals, talk time, out bound calls, in bounds calls, attitude, and enrollments.) The old matrix, although abitrary, did not specifically state that you would be paid per enrollment. However, it did outline performance expectations based around tenure. What was not written, but was absolutely known, was the numbers a rep needed to hit to get a worth while raise.

Bottom line, the magic number was 100 enrollments in 6 months. It used to be 9 months before they changed the timeline. If you could hit 100 retained enrollments in 6 months, your pay would go from $28,000 to $50,000. Anthing above 100 was worth roughly $300 to $600 on top of that per enrollment. Very few reps actually hit 100 enrollments in 6 months. Most hit between 40-70 or about 6-8 per month. When the time frame was 9 months, 100+ enrollments would get you roughly $60 to $80K.

I was on the 6 month plan, my minimum expectations for my first 6 months was 30 enrollments. I did 42 and maxed out every other matrix criteria and received a $5K raise. In the next 6 months, I hit my stride. My expectations were 45 enrollments. I did 132 in 6 months. I recieved a raise of roughly $30K. Here is the flaw in their old matrix. Here is how know for a fact people were paid on enrollments. All those other catagories I mentioned that reps were reviewed on in the old Matrix, were not even considered on my review. In fact, all those areas on my review were much higher on my first review where I only received a $5K raise. It was made perfectly clear, that the number of enrollments I did was the reason I was paid so much. Here is the problem.

They had a matrix that was based upon tenure, not pay scale. So even though I made way more than other people who worked there, my expectations were actually lower. So they ended up having quite a few people there, about 1% of the workforce, making 2 to 3 times as much as the the other 99%(AE's only) In my next review period, because I had been there a year, my minimum expectations were between 50 and 60 enrollments in 6 months. This was fine. The problem was that outside competition (other colleges) was up and coming and UOP's overall numbers, including stock value, was droping. What was noticed was about a 20 to 30% decrease in enrollments accross the board. What this meant to the company, was that because they could not pay on commission, they had to do something else. It is what they did to their best employees and how they did it that I have a problem with.

Here is what happened in 2004. In mid year of 2004 UOP was slumping bad (check the lawsuits roughly 20M and stock rollback into Apollo Group to hide the damage) They let all the employees know that two major items were upcoming because of the lawsuits. First, all EA's would be move to hourly wages and second, the Matrix was being changed.

They had each division director (Mine was Aaron Wettstein) and division manager speak to their teams or roughly 10 to 16 EA's. We were informed that our expectations were going to be LOWERED to reflect the decrease in leads and hours worked. In another meeting, as the top rep on my team and top in the division, myself and about 15 other top EA's were informed that our new expectations would be 45 enrollments in 6 months starting in June which was a week away. Further, we would have no review for the last 6 monts period because no one was hitting their goals. Basically, were all had a clean slate and were expected to hit 45 enrollments by November. They even went as far as to have us sign a new compensation and expectations agreement stating that our expectations would be reduced by 20% for this review. So we went about our business.

I, like most of the top advisors were well on our way to meeting our 45 enrollmet expectations eventhough leads had been reduced dramatically. 3 months into the 6 months period, VP of enrollment called a company meeting where they revealed the actual Matrix. It was nothing like what they had us sign. In fact, the new matrix was based off of pay range. What this meant is that the highest paid EA's had exceedingly high expectations while the lowest paid reps had basically no expectations. I understand business and I agree with this move in principal. However, they made there expectations retro-active to June. What that meant is that the top reps now only had 3 months to make up the ground for their 6 month review. For my scenario my expectations on the new matrix for minimum enrollments went from 45, to 98 in 6 months. 3 months into my review, I was at 26. That gave me 3 months to enroll 72 people. Something that had never been done in the history of the company. The topper was that this matrix had a new clause. If a rep did not hit their goal, they would have their salary reduced by 10% each time.

Now lets go back to where I wanted you to remember your HR course. As you felt liberated enough to lecture me on how I will never be successful as an employee (you're right, as I own my own business now), lets see what you remember about employee management.

When November rolled around, nearly 90% of EA's had failed to hit their goals based off the new matrix. Why? Because the new matrix was written based around the enrollment numbers from 2001-2003, during the most profitable time frame of UOP. With leads at a minimum, no rep was able to come close to hitting their goals. The only reps that actually hit their goals were either new reps, or reps that had other reps quit on their teams and had those reps enrollments given to them.
They ended up reducing the salary of the vast majority of employees.

So captain MBA, lets look at this from a business standpoint. If you want to keep your workforce motivated do you: Increase performance expectations dramatically while reducing resources at the same time? Do you, ignore the law of deminishing returns and keep hiring people to work the same amount of leads? Do you, mislead employees about their expectations and then not give them a full 6 months to make up the different? Do you, allow and increase in dysfunction turnover to the point where you must resort to using temp agencies to keep seats filled because you cannot hire fast enough to compensate for the people quitting?

So, you can go on thinking that you know what you are talking about or simply conceed the point here and admit that you were not there and you cannot speak from experience.

I have the paperwork from all my reviews sitting here, I guess I could waste more of my life explaining myself to people like you, but I have wasted enough of my life on your kind trying to explain things to people that are incapable of admitting someone else knows more then them. I know its hard when you have a 3.98 GPA, but in this case, you are just wrong. Good try.

I'm Attending This University Now

I have took two classes and was dropped from one, the school will not reopen for me to speak with someone until DEC 1 I want to withdraw from the school itself, is it a fee. Will they maske me pay for classes that I havent started yet, in the policies and procedures menu it say withdraw before u start the class or later. The classes arent posted I havent accessed them, I need info on withdrawing. Will i have any future charges the classes I had accessed are paid for. there is nothing else I told the if anymore unexpected charges come up I will contact federal I'm just not going to post and be depressed I will send in all the emails that I received from them and statements. to the state, Federal and government I'm not going to be caught in this trap. I'm not getting in debt for nothing.

Paper Mill

All this information is leading me to buy a degree from a paper mill.

I LOVE The University of Phoenix - and NO, it is NOT a rubberstamp education!

I am currently a student of Axia College, and will be earning my Associate's Degree in Business Administration in two weeks. The last two years working with this college have been comprehensive, intensive, and sometimes exhausting. Yet, it is one of the most rewarding and educational experiences that I have ever had. Whenenver I needed help, there was someone there for me. The class schedules were rigorous, but specially designed to meet the needs of busy working adults.

Without a college like the University of Phoenix, I could never have gotten a college degree, and I will be forever grateful. And YES, they are fully accredited, work with government agencies, are accepted by the FAFSA program, and you can receive your Pell grant through them. This is no easy thing - not every college is accredited like this, and employers have exhibited respect and admiration for the degree. I live in Michigan, but I visited Arizona, and went to the main campus. I was more than happy with what I found there.

Also, there are satellite campuses all over the country, including Ann Arbor, MI (home of the University of Michigan). Disgruntled former employees should stop trying to ruin other people's dreams, and find something else to kvetch about. UOP is a real college, run by real people, and is accepted in the real world.

University of Phoenix is not accurately represented

I feel that as an employee, I must say something regarding the inaccurate postings made by people who have had either bad experiences or were formerly employed by UOP and have axes to grind.

While it is true that not everyone has a positive experience, most do. There are inept employees that probably do not care about the students or the academic integrity of the institution, but, in a company of this size, that is bound to happen. That does not make it right; but it is a fact. However, there are far more people here that do care about the students and do strive to provide a quality educational experience.

Enrollment counselors are the used car salesmen of the company. They make us all look bad. Every time something negative is said in the press, it involves enrollment. B, I'm sorry, but much of what you have posted is inaccurate. Accreditation is hard to obtain and quite easy to lose. Of course maybe it would be easier to give some credence to your words if they were put together in an intelligent, coherent manner.

transfering

Is their a policy on how long you have to stay enrolled with them befor you can transfer to another school. I have been there for 8 weeks and I have a stafford loan that for some reason doesnt cover all my expences. I would like to change schools but i dont want to owe them any money or lose out money on my loan. please tell me the best way to leave this school. I cannot afford to pay 400 out of pocket every semester plus 3500 in loans. thank you.

To Bonnie

Stafford Loans are based upon your current academic level (Freshman, Sophomore, Junior, Senior) which dictates your total Stafford Amount. According to levels listed before the funding is as follows: $6500, $7400, $10,500, $10,500. However, if you applied for the loan and you were under 24 years of age, you are not married, and do no have children, you would be considered (dependent) and only eligible for roughly ½ those amounts listed. You would have needed a Parent Plus Loan Denial or Approval to borrow or be awarded the rest of the funding.

If you are attending AXIA, it was my understanding that your tuition should be covered for your first two years by the Stafford Loan unless you are a (dependent) borrower in which case you would have roughly $3,000 out of pocket your first year.

If you are at UOP, you would still be short on funding even if you qualify for the full amount of Stafford. Tuition at UOP Undergrad for 24 credit hours is $11,856.00 plus book fees of $85 per course (8 Courses) putting your first year total at $12,536.00. The Stafford only covers $10,500. When you break it down they should be telling you that by your 4th class you would owe about $500. This will occur again when you get to your 8th class.

With regards to your question on enrollment, there is not a specific answer for you. Yes, you can transfer to another school whenever you would like. However, if your financial aid has not been distributed to UOP/AIXA yet and you have completed a course, once you drop they will be required to cancel or send back the aid. This will leave you will an outstanding balance at UOP/AXIA for the course/s your have taken. They will not release your credits until your balance is paid. In addition, they may send you to collections.

If your funding has been distributed to UOP/AXIA, then you will not be able to use Stafford at another college until they return the funds to your lender. Most of the time if you have taken a few courses, your funds are returned less the money used to pay your tuition for those courses. As you are only eligible for a certain dollar amount for Stafford each academic year, therefore you would be short on funding if you transfer to another school.

The best thing to do is drop and begin paying off the balance at UOP/AXIA or making small payments towards your loan balance. Once you are in a new academic year, you can apply at a different school and use the full Stafford Loan again.

If it is any consolation, you are not alone. Many others run into this problem there.
Good Luck

To Jesse

Jesse,

To answer your first question I must speculate. Credit transfer is often different from college to college. Usually it is based upon a few criteria such as course level (bachelor, master, doctorate), course relevance (how the credits relate to the program you transfer to), accreditation, and grade. If you are in graduate level courses, most colleges will only accept 0-2 classes in transfer to their same graduate program. UOP's credits are acceptable based off of most criteria but you will probably find it difficult to transfer master credits in to another college. I think Walden has a 6 credit hour transfer minimum for their master programs.

The second question is subjective and calls for opinion. As mentioned in earlier posts, there are some direct competitors with UOP that try to do it right. Nova, Walden, Capella, Northcentral, National, etc. The line between online and ground is blurring as many traditional ground universities offer online coursework and degree programs. Basically there are 3 or 4 colleges to stay away from. UOP, Kaplan, American Intercontinental University, and any college owned by EDMC (Art Institute, Agrosy, Brown Mackie, and South University)

Thanx You B and others: Made my decision easier!

First off thank you B!

I have spent an embarrassing amount of time reading this rather shockingly long debate today. I have been attending U of P for about 6 months and had been increasingly uneasy about the whole process the entire time. However; the events of the last short while, along with reading through the posts here and in other locations, have confirmed my belief that this so called institution of ‘higher learning' is a farce. I feel ashamed that I was able to convince myself this long that all was kosher. I guess the will to see the good in something you really want to work out has a mystifying quality that obscures reality. I suppose it is this quality that has taken many an intelligent man down with a foundering business or allowed a person to endure years involved in a terrible marriage or other form of relationship. It is this quality that allowed me to rationalize my way through the joke of a first class “professional' communications and hope that there was a rainbow on the horizon and not the _ _ _ _ (expletive deleted) storm that has blown over as of late. I have degrees (one of them a professional degree) from two of the finest universities in my country that I am quite proud of. I was hoping to acquire a means to develop professionally in a manner that is unavailable to me in my current setting (as I am overseas) and was initially looking at a program with Walden. It turned out that when I had some money saved I could no longer access that option in this country, so I opted to give Phoenix a go.

Right from the get go I (as well as my significant other) had reservations about my decision, but (see above) I decided to go on with it anyway. My first class was not worthy of an undergraduate, let alone graduate, level designation which should have been evidence enough for me to overturn my decision to attend U of P. (see above). Yet, the next couple of courses were alright. I had diligent instructors and it seemed like most of the others in my classes were fairly capable individuals with a desire to learn and better themselves professionally.

Than it began: The next class had three people in it including myself. The other two had a limited command on English, and an even more limited command on the material. I did all the work and finished the course frustrated and ready to quit (see above). The next course was mediocre at best, and a time zone conflict resulted in a barrage of personal attacks from an incensed individual behaving like a rabbit with an amygdalectomy. Again I was left thinking how can this be at a graduate level? I have completed a graduate program at a prestigious university and was surrounded with, by and large, very intelligent articulate people capable of well reasoned-rational-objective debate (as one would, and I feel, should expect).

The kicker: Without going into too great a detail my last class was a shocker, it was pathetic. The new online learning system is rotten, to say it is less reliable than a poorly designed beta version of some second rate software would be a compliment. Not to mention that the server has been crashing all the more frequently, and you call technical service and get to wait on hold for an hour plus while paying the long distance tariff. All this grief and more at a premium price! I must have become a masochist and have simultaneously become too unaware to know it! Another stone to through is the fact that some grimly poor work that was turned in by my learning group in my last class and was given a very high grade. I knew it to be rife with errors, yet this A grade appeared as if by magic. Who if anyone actually looked this thing over? was all that came to mind.
I had become increasingly critical of the whole process finally shedding the cloak of rationalization I had been wearing (see above) and over the last few days (with very little effort) I have read through myriad reports of scenarios analogous to my own; as well as much worse information about the University of Phoenix that I would have never fathomed existed. Had it not been for my geographic location I would have never taken this road to ruin, I am just glad that I have decided to cut loose of it before more of my time and hard earned money had been squandered on a meaningless degree. Lined up next to my prior degrees all one could ask would be why? I talked to a friend (we went trough undergraduate neuroscience together) who doing his PhD at home and mentioned what I had been up to and his response was “What?.... don't they have schools over there? how much are you paying for that? are you taking crack?” Snicker….snicker…snicker.

It was a wake up call, I had no idea about the north American perception of this university and foolishly assumed that if it was granted the ability to collect students loans from the American government that it mush be above board.

I was so eager to get back into to school and further my education, taking on the challenges of simultaneously working and perusing another graduate degree, that I let my ambition obscure reality and did not allow myself to hit the brakes when all the red signals started to appear from the beginning. I am only out of pocket for a quarter of the cost so far so I guess I should consider myself lucky in that sense.

B as you seem to be very much in the know concerning the online learning situation in America I have a couple of quick questions for you. First, I was wondering if there is any possibility that Walden or some other online school grant transfer credits for U of P coursework? Second, if transfer is possible what online university has highest degree of legitimate merit?

Intel cuts UOP from tuition reimbursement list

"We are not seeing the preferred outcomes from the enrollment of Intel employees at certain for-profit schools, such as the Univ. of Phoenix, owned by the Phoenix, Ariz. based Apollo Group," said Intel spokesman Bill Mckenzie.

So, Intel hammers UOP by dropping UOP tuition reimbursement. Alan Fisher, Intel's Extended Education Manager followed up with this scorching remark," it's a reflection of the high standards Intel has."

UOP has graduated hundreds of Intel employees and those graduates simply have not passed muster, and "could not compete for internal openings with outside candidates, who often were held to higher educational standards."

There you have it, folks. Intel has 100,000 employees and has summarily flunked UOP/Apollo. Lots of other schools made the cut, including all of Arizona's(UOP'HQ)public Universities. Heck, even DeVry survived; but NOT UOP.

Now, it's not only United States v. UOP (just type those words into Google for THAT story) but, also, Intel v. UOP.

What happens when all the other corporate hiring managers find out that Intel has canned UOP? Intel now has a huge sampling of UOP grads within their ranks and has found they are getting clobbered in the workplace by graduates of real Universities.

k

I agree with "T". If UOP was really that bad then why do so many companies approve them on their list of colleges. The military even suggests them, for goodness sake.

Most employers don't look at where you went to college when they hire you, they look at whether or, not you had the motivation to attend and finish the classes. Unless you are going to be a lawyer or, doctor or, similar professional then most people don't care where you went; all they care about is your work ethic and motivation. Otherwise, most would not be employed at all. Who cares where the degree is from? Do you show up for work? Do you do your job knowledgeably? Did you do the classwork? Or, do you just do the bare minimum at work, show up late constantly and turn everything in incomplete?

There are a lot of people out there that have gone to major Universities right now that only brag about where that little piece of paper came from instead of doing their job and doing it right. I don't want to hear about how much Mommy and Daddy spent on you education if you aren't going to use it. Most people going to an on-line college don't have "mommy & daddy" to sponge off of and have to work for a living. They don't have the time to sit on their butts all day and boohoo over they were screwed by life.

This thread is just a bunch of sour grapes that can't hack the on-line learning environment.

"B" I have been looking for someone like you all week...

I do not why Mr. 3.98 is trying to defend University of Phoenix using info from their own website...I have several problems with UoP and so do the majority of people who go there.

Let's all go back to their recruiting tactics...I started there in July '04 was that before or after the lawsuit about paying the recruiters based on enrollment? It sure seems the guy that cornered me was paid per enrollment with no care for my needs. When I was conned into attending UoP I was told by Jason that every course would be $750 because of the military discount (yes they prey on the very people that fight for their freedom and their spouses, as well as single mothers), only to find out on my second course (what school would throw someone without a 100 or 200 level business course into a 300 level course but that is a whole seperate complaint)that I would have to pay $300 more for those. I was also told that if financial aid ran out as it often does in the first year I would be able to take a leave of absence because I could not afford the out of pocket expenses. Well when I went to request that leave of absense I was unenrolled and $1600+ of the loan was returned to the lender even though it had already been used to pay tuition leaving me in the collections department at the UoP. Another of the lies I was told is that my credits were transferrable to another university except for maybe a couple just because you can almost never transfer 100% of credits between schools...I made it clear that I wanted to transfer to University of San Diego, a prestigious Catholic university for the last 30 units of my degree. Well not only are they not transferable to USD (not a single one) they are not transferable to any university in Southern California not even to Capella which is also a non-traditional school. The school I just registered at told me that with the math I might be able to get out of the math placement exam so I don't have to take remedial math and I can go right into a 100 level course.

Once I was in school it was horrible...some of the student were so stupid...actually the majority. Horrible grammar...no common sense...they couldn't even appropriately use a computer.I only went there because I needed a flexible schedule...most of these people went there because they couldn't get accepted anywhere else. On several occasions I found myself completing team projects alone because the others were to stupid to do their part right...but they were all cool because they had a 3.8...3.9...or 4.0 GPA. There are no requirements for admission except for paying the ridiculously high tuition...that should have clued me in, but I try to look for the positive in things all the time.

My academic advisor has changed so much it is crazy...and they do not keep contact in the form of email as I have requested on several occasions. It is alway a phone call...and they never call you when you need them to actually help you with something. I have reason to believe that they actually posted for me in my last course so I would owe the money...mind you the course I was enrolled in after I requested a couple of weeks off in between courses because my husband had just come home from the middle east, but I am trying to figure out how to prove that.

I am sure there is more but I am tired. I am sending in the money they say I owe only because I don't want my credit ruined. My attorney suggested I do it with a check and on the check reference a letter that I would attach stating everything so I know they got it when they cash the check. He says there is a good chance of winning at least a settlement...as long a I can recoup the $8000 I wasted on UoP I will be content...not happy...just content. Some money for wasted time would be nice to but right now it is more about principle. Oh yeah why is getting anything in writing from them impossible? Anyway if you know of anyone doing a class action tell me...six one nine two five three eight seven two three.

I have some questions

Can anyone tell me why UOP credits don't transfer to some colleges after all they are accredited by NCA?

Can you tell us why, Arizona schools are accredited by the NCA when they are not actually in that region?

Barbara, sorry to say you are not alone

I wish I could be more help but I am not aware of any class action lawsuits that you might currently join in on.

Your scenario is terrible, but not uncommon. Everything you explain in your memo is commonplace. Let me start with the tactic "Jason" used on you. First, the price he quoted you for the military discount was based off of the priced at AXIA Western International University and not UOPO.

In 2004 UOP Online launched WIU Online. With all the hoopla that came with this launch, it had only one motive. That motive was to capitalize on the millions of dollars they were loosing each year in Title IV funding. WIU was launched as an Associate Degree granting institution. When you look at how Title IV funding is set up, level 1 and level 2 students only qualify for 5K and 7K approx. For a freshman/sophmore at UOP, the tuition was around 11K leaving them with 5-6K out of pocket. Most people ended up in the same scenario you found yourself in, owing money out of pocket. Because UOP could not simply lower their tuition because of the effect it would have on the overall market (competition), they opened WIU and lowered tuition to fit exactly under the lowest amount a student can qualify for through federal stafford funds.

The tactic used on you by Jason was developed to counter concerns that potential students had about the out of pocket expense for first and second year students. Most people that attend UOP do so using Title IV funding but when they hear that they would owe 5K their first year, they would not enroll. Due to the overwhelming presure placed on sales managers and enrollment advisors, new tactics were required to enroll freshman and sophmore students. Jacob Nevzoroff, a manager who is notorious for manipulating the system and still works there, actually trained his team to tell students they could take the first few classes using Title IV funding, and then take a leave of absence until they are able to save enough money to pay for the other classes. What the students were not told is that they can only take a limited amount of time, and that if they drop from full time student status, they were disqualified from using financial aid. Whats more, is that they were not told that many times, the classes they have taken, and that they were told were to be covered by financial aid, are not covered until the financial aid clears. That can take a LONG time. So if the student stops attending before their funds have cleared, they end up owing UOP the money. Lies, Lies Lies. This is policy and as long as they keep people coming in the front, they do not care how many are falling out the back. They often hold funding to keep default rates down. They would rather have a student owe them money, than owe the loan company money.

My advice to you would be this, contact Jason, ask to speak with his manager. Explain the scenario and you will get nowhere because most of the managers who know how to manage have quit. However, explain to the manager the scenario and ask if the tactic used on you was a common tactic. Now after the manager does the "not my responsibility" dance, ask to speak with the senior manager (still usually a complete tool). Explain the situation again. Then ask to speak with the director of enrollment for the military division in the CA region. (dont know who that is anymore). They will all tell you it is a Finance and collections department issue. How to get around this is simple. (Tell them you have the money to pay off the debt, and you want to get enrolled again) they will listen to you if they think they can get money from you. If you can make it to the Director of Enrollment for Military, tell him/her you want to also speak with the director of Finance for the Military. Once you have them both on the line, find out who their military liasion is in your region. (Do this under the guise of wanting to re-enroll, but just wanting to make sure the same thing does not happen again) If you can find out who the military liason is, see if you can contact them. "Try to hit them where it hurts". If they lost their military contract they would lose millions. Next, ask to speak with a dean or chair of academics, tell your story again.

It is a little known fact that Academics and Finance HATE the Enrollment department. They are always cleaning up the mess enrollment leaves behind.

If all else fails, call 1-800-366-9699 and ask to speak with the secretary of Vince Grell, he is the VP of Enrollment. He is a douche, but put a bug in his ear.

To be honest, no one ever does this because it is a lot of work, and most people have better sh*t to do.

If you are going to put your effort into anything, try getting your degree done at another college.

I am still heavily involved with education consulting. If you are still looking to get your lower division credits completed and cannot use financial aid, I would look at Rio Salado College Online in Phoenix. I know a few people that work there and they have a launch program for Walden U Online which is a great online program. The Rio Salado program is only about $150 per class.

If you are looking for something a little different after you experience online, try a ground campus offering online degrees.
Go to www.mind-streams.com and look at their programs. They are aligned with 5 of the top ground campuses in the US offering online degree programs. They have a solid name and treat people great.

Whatever happens.

Good Luck

I can tell you why...

It is because their academics are substandard to what is offered at other schools. Take for instance Math 208 and 209. They are part of the core that everyone takes and no other math is required. Look at what is taught and match it up to another schools course description and you will find that you just completed a math course that was not even at college level. And unfortunately when you say some schools...you should actually be saying most schools. I have yet to find a school willing to accept my credits from there. Then try taking your degree out into the working world...there is an off chance you might find someone who is also a graduate from there and be happy to hire you but most people will pass right over your resume. It is not the fact that online learning is new because there are plenty of online program. Even NYU has an online program. It is just the fact that UoP is known for substandard education. When I can be in a course not do any assignments except tests, only post my messages (and it was all subjective not fact) and still get a b or c something is wrong.I didn't even crack a book in most cases because it was all about what you feel or what you think and the tests were all common knowledge...except for the idiots they let in the class who thought it was sooooo hard. They probably had a hard time in kindergarten too though and are not the average person.

Transfer credits. You already have you degree and because UoP is legally accredited they have to accept the degree to get you into the masters program.

You in a different situation you had recieved your bachelors and you were going to a different school to get your masters. You already have you degree and because UoP is legally accredited they have to accept the degree to get you into the masters program. What I am talking about was the fact that I was sick of being in courses with stupid classmates and teachers who only taught their opinion because they had no factual knowledge of what they were teaching so I went to transfer to another school and none of the individual courses transferred to any of the schools I had looked at. I pretty much wasted a year and a half but I realized that if I got my degree from there it would be a joke, because UoP is a joke...I would never have a sense of accomplishment. And about the financial aid not covering it...all I can get is loans because of my income it is very expensive to live in my neighborhood yet the financial aid people wont recognize cost of living differences accross the country (a whole seperate story), the maximum loans a student qualifies for goes up each year, so after 24 credits, then after 48, then 72. I think it even goes up for your masters program. I am guessing when you came to UoP you came in as a junior and that is why you had the extra money. For me to get by I would have needed 4 weeks between each course.

Transfer of Credits, Student Loans

I think this thread does not have the facts straight. I graduated from Pierce College, Washington in 1987 with an AAS degree. Enrolled at UOP, Michigan in the BSM in-seat program 14 years later. All credits from Pierce College transferred.

Upon graduation with a UOP Bachelors Degree in Management, 2003, I immediately enrolled at Davenport University, Michigan for the masters degree; again all credits transferred.

The bachelors and masters degree programs were completely funded through student loans. The method is to not miss a single class, and do not take any breaks between classes. Each and every payment was made on time every time to both schools. I even received a few thousand in my pocket to help along the way.

The proper way to grasp the opportunity of student aid is to start when your schedule is developed, drive hard all the way to the end, and stay clear of online team-based schools.

My future plans are to challenge a PhD with a local RA school, and I have no doubt all credits will transfer and funding will be available.

Thank You ripoff report, continue to help others by telling the truth.

I went to an information sessions last year. I was close to signing up for UPO master degree but reports like this changed my mind. For every person defending UPO there are plenty who will see your report and save themselves the UPO exiperience. So, continue to help others by telling the truth.

Transfer the Degree, not the Credits

The philosophy of creating a degree program in one university will differ from that of another university. Some educational providers will develop a program specific to the region they operate in.

Education providers are in complete competition with one another and for this (and other) reasons do not cooperate to have their personal programs directly transfer. If students do not like the philosophy then select a different provider.

Many classes at a transferring university will not be equivalent to those others offer. The whole idea is to choose wisely the university to attend and stick with their program all the way through.

Once the desired degree is achieved, and you want to continue to a higher degree, then transfer the degree, not the credits. Jumping around from one provider to another will cause students to redo some classes, add on different classes, and some classes will not apply.

The key to a successful degree completion is to focus on a single provider and get-r-done.

Some things to consider

Before signing up with any school do your home work. I had signed up with a number of schools just to get information. I did this before I did my research on these schools. I was shocked with what I found out about most of them.

------ told me that some are on probation and this they will not tell you so do your research first. See if you can get into a class and see if it is some thing that you will like. One lady I had in a math class from my local university suggested that I check out ---- as her brother was taking online classes through them. I have not seen this suggested so thought that I would suggest it.

I have never gone to UOP but did take the test but never did take classes as I thought back then that you paid for your degree. I did not feel that you could learn any thing in 5 weeks. I know that I was thinking of taking computer science there and did not think that you could learn programming in 5 weeks so I went else where.

I did not complete my degree and with my work schedule I am thinking of going back to school. I know that more and more jobs are requiring a degree as you can not work your way up like you used to be able to do. Because of this I am looking at going back to school online. I really appreciate all this information. It made my decision not to go to UOP campus or online that much easier.

sorry, …allowing you to give a competitors name would instigate others to just file against their competition, to only come back later to suggest their company… your comments on this policy are welcome! CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.

I forgot to mention

I forgot to mention that for me I want a degree that does not state that it is an online degree. I want it to say the same thing as those attending the university. I also want it to be more like attending the university such as seeing the teachers lectures instead of just reading notes of the lecture. I also want to be responsible for my own work. I do not want others relying on me and I do not want to rely on others for my grade. I also want to get the grade that I earn.

I have read about to many schools that give out A's for sub par work which means the degree is not worth the paper it is printed on. This is why I did my research and I hope that others do their's as well before putting down good money on a program. See if you can see what a class would be like before signing up. This way you can see if it is in fact what you would like to take. What others are saying is so true. Now more then ever you have to investigate things for yourself.

Intel also dropped

Intel also dropped support for Strayer because they did not meet the requirements as well. In this article they also mentioned that UOP also does the same thing. They did not have the business certification that Intel was looking for so they dropped them as well. It is nice to see they also dropped UOP.

Why the NCA??

Arizona is in the NCA region. Check the regional maps.

CBS REPORT Web SITE For-Profit College: Costly Lesson

Visit this site, go to page two.
You'll get little bit more info on UOP.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/08/11/60minutes/main772913.shtml


I guess degree from a paper mill is real now days.

VERY EXPENSIVE

Those who are paying for their own education in the hope of advancing in a chosen profession should be the MOST concerned about UOP.
A college degree is an investment. It can be examined as such. This can be done with a simple ROI calculation. You divide the returns (INCREASED earnings) by the cost. I am going to use years going forward for this example rather than a percentage. and I am just going to use tuition and not time or lost earnings on the investment side.
Suppose a business degree will give you a 5k boost per year in earnings.
If it costs 16k, you will have paid for it in just over 3 years.
If that same degree costs 48k, it will take almost TEN years before you realize any economic benefit from the education.
Does UOP look so good now?
If you don't realize the expected earnings boost, you are really in trouble.
Hey, you can buy a crummy little car for say 10k. it might be a crummy little car, but if it gets you where you want to go you can be perfectly happy with it and it may have been a good choice. But if you pay 50k for that crummy little car, that you could have got down the street for 10k, you are just a dumb ass.
Joni

Rahul, thx for the link

The article link you included mentions the 9.8M that UOP had to pay because of their illegal enrollment practices. What it does not mention is the other 10M that UOP had to pay to the AZ Dep of Labor for failure to pay overtime wages to employees. These fines took place within the same year. The sad thing is that $20 million is in fines is a drop in the bucket for a billion dollar company (Apollo Grp).

When you examine their annual revenue over the last 10-15 years (multi millions), and the fact that a major portion of that money that has been generated stems directly from Title IV funding, it becomes apparent how UOP rose to power. If it was determined in 2004 that their enrollment practices were illegal and they were fined for it, that means that their enrollment practices have been illegal since they became elligible to use Title IV funding. So any revenue made, or any money/assets used as leverage for loans or venture capital was obtained through illegal means. To offer a relative example, a drug dealer who uses profits from illegal activities to invest in legal ventures, cannot keep those assets if it is found that those assets were obtained with illegal cashflow. With this in mind, it is obvious that UOP obtained profits through illegal methods, and was able to use that money to grow an empire. Simply put, over the last 15 years UOP robbed tax payers and students by illegal use of Title IV funding, and robbed its employees by refusing to pay overtime, built a billion dollar empire, and only received a slap on the wrist ($20 million in fines) for their actions. Welcome to all the worst aspect of corporate america.

please read this in the New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/11/education/11phoenix.html?ex=1171861200&en=f00fa7d99fd80c89&ei=5070&emc=eta1

this article was published this week (FEB 2007) and confimrs the same concerns that both B and I and other UoP employees past and present in this thread have expressed.

let me say for anyone who keeps calling those of us who are not fans of UoP "disgruntled former employees" that UoP was VERY good to its employees (outside of the enrollment department). i and many other employees were given spa weekends, etc. as "thank yous" from the company. it is the students that get treated poorly.

Beware of Northcentral University online PhD programs!!!!

Beware of the Ph.D. on-line programs.

Please help me find the appropriate outlets to discuss on-line doctoral programs. I believe that we need to bring the deception to the forefront this year. I would like to explore several alternatives. Unless something is done soon, I believe that regional accreditation is going to lose value in the market place.

The schools with weak programs and that use deception are going to destroy the market value that many major corporations have built. In order to stay in this market many of the large for profit private schools may need to seek AACSB accreditation or risk the lost of a declining image of regional accreditation.

Beware of the correspondence Ph.D. on-line programs with no residence requirements.

Northcentral University is a good example of a school that will bring down the standards of regional accreditation. Northcentral University on-line purports to be 100% online but is primarily a correspondence school. NCU uses deceptive advertising. It purports to have an online Ph.D. program.

The school is a distance education correspondence program. It is not conducted over the Internet. The Internet capability of the university is grossly ineffective and is one of the weak links in its program. There is no interaction with students and very little, if any, assessment or interaction with professors.

It is what one of my colleagues called, a glorified correspondence school. Yet, NCU continues to promote itself as an on-line delivery system simply because there may be some limited emails and download files or information.

NCU may try to compare itself to large private programs, but these schools are mostly owned by publicly held corporations that are subject to Sarbanes Oxley and thus a higher standard of accountability. They also have the resources to provide multi-media on-line educational programs as well as the library and faculty resources to provide a viable program.

NCU does not have any of these. NCU has demonstrated very little accountability or service initiative. Although NCU is accredited, it promotes its services in a deceptive manner. It should be classified with unethical marketing scams. It is not an on-line program. It is a correspondence school.

NCU is not a student friendly environment, nor is it transparent and accountable in its disclosure. NCU advertising is deceptive and I believe that this is wrong and should be changed and or reported to the public at large. Their student service is not effective and their focus is primarily on money.

Students will receive much better service from large traditional or private universities. They continue to use false advertising and this warrants public disclosure and, at least, preventing others from falling for NCU's deceptions. Although they may rank well in terms of cost, please remember, you get what you pay for. And you will not get much from this correspondence school.

Students should search for an AACSB school or a regionally credited school that has a long successful history and/ or is backed by a credible organization that has the resources to provide a top rated program.

There is no doubt that on-line education and alternative delivery educational programs are an increasing trend. But there is a great difference in the educational quality of the various programs. There is a vast difference in the quality of regional accredited programs.

Sadly, Northcentral on-line may be the one that clearly pulls down the image of regional accreditation. Prospective students, employers and the educational community must be informed of this about this matter in order to make wise choices. 2007 should be the year to bring this out to the public at large and I hope that you play a role in helping with this process.

UOP has a doctorial program that is not AACSB accredited. Many teaching jobs in business schools required professors who are AACSB qualified. UOP has the potential to devote the resources to create a viable program. There has not been much discussion of the doctoral programs at UOP or whether they would ever seek AACSB accreditation. Students who desire a career in academia should beware of online programs that do not have substantial residential requirements.

Currently there are no on-line AACSB schools. Schools that offer alternative delivery PhD programs that may have credibility at the doctoral level could include the University of Maryland University College and Nova Southeastern.

The University of Maryland University College is one of 11 degree granting institutions of the University of Maryland system. Thus, it is a public university. Information on their doctorate in management can be found at:

http://www.umuc.edu/grad/dm/dm_home.shtml

Complete transparency on the University of Maryland University college accreditation and self study can be found at:

http://www.umuc.edu/middlestates/index.shtml

Nova southeastern is a private university and offers doctorate programs that are closer to traditional programs than the on-line programs. That is, they required residency via attendance of classes for their doctorate in business degree programs. They do offer on-line programs for other levels but not at the business doctorate level. This may be a selling point for their program for those wanting to enter academia in the teaching profession.

Information on Nova's accreditation activities can be found at:

http://www.nova.edu/rpga/accreditation.html

Nova is accredited by International Assembly for Collegiate Business Education and Commission on Colleges of the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools (SACS).

Information on their doctorate programs can be found at:

http://www.huizenga.nova.edu/FutureStudents/Doctoral/DBA.cfm

Nova's web site is very transparent and they include syllabus for each class.

Nova also published their strategic plan.

http://www.nova.edu/cwis/strategic_plan/index.html.

Nova has made great achievements over the year and their doctorate program seem to be well structure and is expected to receive greater acceptance in academia. Nova is a non profit private university.

These are just two alternatives to on-line programs. There may be other viable programs that will gain credibility in academia. If you are not interested in teaching, then the accreditation and credibility of the school's program is of lesser importance.

Perhaps before you select a program, you should talk with potential university employers and ask them if they would hire you based on the PhD program you are considering. Both the reputation of the school and its specific program as well and faculty and student research will be considered in the employment decision. Please beware of the Ph.D. on-line programs. Do your homework wisely!

Richard, your claims against NCU are invalid and unfounded

This will be my only response to in this thread. Should you desire to engage in debate over a college unrelated to UOP, start your own thread and let me know, I will engage you there:

I have to disagree with Richard regarding NCU as I have studied their product as well as Nova's. His provided information regarding NCU specifically is incorrect. First, NCU is not a correspondence school.

They use a completely different format than most online colleges but it is not correspondence. Correspondence is considered traditional mail, non interactive education. NCU uses 1 on 1 delivery for their courses. It is asynchronous online interaction similar to that of Walden, Capella, UOP, Nova, and many others. The main difference is that NCU does not require other people to be in your class with you so there is no team assignments or required post check in. NCU format can be argued as better because like many other online colleges, they have open enrollment standards, this can allow sub par students into the program. Because students are isolated 1 on 1 they do not affect other students and cannot hide behind a learning team for a grade. Some people like this, others do not. This DOES NOT make it a correspondence school.

Second, the reason that NCU has this free format is because they do not use Federal Title IV funding. Which means they do not exploit US tax dollars for their own benefit as does UOP. Because they do not use Title IV they do no have the same restrictions as many other colleges that do. There are no “terms” in which NCU must report attendance or limits on how many classes a student can take in a term. NCU has 12 week classes with the option of acceleration and no limit on the number of courses a student can take in a year or how fast a student can finish. This is not that same at 99% of the other online colleges.

Third, because NCU does not use federal tax dollars to fund their programs, their overall impact on the industry is limited. They do not exploit tax dollars. In truth since you compared them to NOVA Southeastern, NCU has a much more reasonable tuition structure than NOVA. NOVA's EDD program can reach upwards of $50,000 for the degree. NCU's is roughly $27,000. I have worked with NOVA in that past and just because they require the GRE to ender the program does not mean they are a better program. In fact, the current president of NCU use to work at NOVA as their Dean of Education. Strange.

As I am familiar with NCU and you claim they use deceptive advertising, please point out where and how. Is the advertising deceptive or your limited understanding of accreditation and online education leading you to believe they are deceptive?

AACSB is only one additional accrediting body a college can go after and only affects the school of business. NCU is in the process of being accredited by ACBSP (according to their website) which has similar academic requirements for accreditation as AACSB. The only difference is that ACBSP does not require a GMAT. I am unaware of many online colleges with ACBSP accreditation which I think leads to the quality of the program put out by NCU.

“Bring the standard of accreditation down”? This is a common misconception by those outside of education. The reason NCAHLC accredits so many online colleges is because they understand that the future of education is online. If you have ever been involved with a focus visit by the NCAHLC for program accreditation or review, you see that there is NOT a guideline standard of rules regarding an academic standard or operating method that must be in place for a college to receive NCA accreditation, They leave the compliance in the hand of the institution by allowing the institution to outline their goals, governance, syllabi, teaching method, measurements and reporting. As long as they do this, they are complying with NCAHLC standards. Considering NCU is the largest doctorate education facility in the world, they must be doing something right.

If you had a bad experience with them that is one thing and you are entitled to express you experience. But do not speak to things you cannot back with evidence and obviously do not understand. NCU is not “driving down” any standard. They are the least of our worries in the education arena considering the fact that they are reasonably priced compared to most and do not exploit Title IV.

You are also wrong about the resources available to students at NCU, I called and spoke with them, they do have what they called an ELRC (Electronic Learner Resource Center). As it was explained to me and a screen shot was sent, it looks a lot like Walden and UOP's online libraries.

Again, why should someone “beware” of colleges without a physical residency requirement? NCU does have multiple “online PhD programs” I am not sure what your claim is here.

To me, it sounds as if your comprehensive doctrine has been formulated by listening to those who work in a traditional college setting. These folks are the last people who should speak to or about the online arena. The history of resistance by the traditional sector has gone a little like this:

When online first began in the last 70's ground colleges rejected it as NEVER being a valid method of education. As it grew, it began to force ground colleges to become more service oriented. This meant meeting demand by their students for online courses. So many traditional ground campuses began offering single online coursework. Mind you, this was the format they claimed was invalid yet they found reason “money” to offer online. Their new claim was that online could only be reasonably used as a supplemental tool for valid education offered in a regular classroom, still claiming that fully online degrees were invalid. As online continued to grow and take market share, it once again forced the grand campus hand. They then began to offer fully online degree's such as Nova and Maryland. Suddenly their tune changed again, it is okay to offer online degrees but only if offered by a ground campus. Bottom line, they keep changing their tune to accommodate their own personal agenda. I believe that if you are going to go to school online then you are better off going to an online school. Ground campuses trying to offer online courses simply screw up the facilitation process because they are not consumer services oriented and are incapable of servicing the online populous affectively. They would like to believe their own hype, that because they are a ground campus they are somehow superior to the online schools. The fact is, the biggest complaint I heard about NOVA is that they don't help their students. So regardless of the rigor of the academics, it does not make the program better.

Many traditional ground campus educators have a sever superiority complex regarding education. They believe they are elite and that learning should be elite. This is the same line of thinking that has oppressed cultures, races and genders, and needs to be put out to pasture. It has no place in modern society. The only reason traditional campus instructors bad mouth online, is because online is a threat. It will get them nowhere.

You are entitled to your opinion, if you had a bad experience with NCU then outline that experience as I did with UOP. Be prepared to defend those claims as I have had to within this blog. If you cannot, your whole claim becomes rendered false. I support the efforts of NCU, Walden, and Capella.

Quality of Classes are very poor

I'm so disappointed about this wannabe institution. I was supicious after the first 9 weeks. I picked up a pattern early and have watched it over and over through each class. I wrote a paper with references and the instructor gave me 10/30 points because he thought I copied the entire article. It's a tribute to my writing talent but all he had to do was look at my references. My paper was totally opposite of the article. The article boast on helping people, while my paper was a satire as to why they helped these villages...they were pulling 40,000 barrels of oil out of their villages a day. I had to call the instructor to tell him he was wrong. So later, I submitted papers 3 days late with no references and still received 85-100% on my grade and didn't even meet the word count requirement let alone the paper had no references and was 3 days late. It's a total joke! After this next 8 weeks and the Associates is acquired, I'm bailing faster than you can blink an eye. I am embarrassed to say I'm doing the UOP thing. The academic and financial counselors have no clue about their fields. All they can advise you on is when it's time to fill the financial aide form and when you missed attendance. They offer no alternative financial aide programs or alternatives. VERY VERY SAD STATE OF AFFAIRS when the government gives loans for this institution. Someone is sleeping with someone.

Write About it...

Tell Your Congressperson or Senator about this problem! US Department of Education Report tem to GOA, General Office of Accounting for the Federal Government, since these are federally funded student loans! They will do an investigation. You may also want to report them to Internal Revenue Service for fraud using form3949A, you can download it online.

Then pose it as a question on Yahoo Answers/Questions. Lots of angry students there. Someone needs to stop and thing about some of these colleges period. Even if you sit in the classes, because of clerical errors you may be stuck with student Loans and no usable degree! Bethany University did pretty much the same thing and i was sitting in the classes for almost 4 years!

UOPs response To New York Times Article

The article in the New York Times by Sam Dillon has exposed a clash of cultures between traditional academia and newer, market-oriented colleges and universities.

The education crisis

America's economic power depends upon our educated workforce and by all counts, we're failing. Forrester Research has predicted that about 3.3 million U.S. service jobs will move to foreign countries by 2015, yet we continue to leave behind masses of potential students who either can't afford college or can't find a seat in one. It may come as a surprise that your own alma mater is not what the majority of college students may want or need today and for the next decade. Those bucolic, sentimental, ivy-covered campuses may even be obsolete with their heavy investment in physical facilities, semesters based on a bygone agrarian system, and class schedules that appear to honor the more pressing needs of the faculty than the flexibility required by students.

Today the majority of students are cobbling together their education in fits and starts, commuting to colleges part-time while working full-time. Many are single parents and first-generation college students, and frequently they must engage in remedial coursework in order to overcome an incomplete or insufficient educational past. These are the students who overwhelmingly need flexible learning options such as online classes, alternative schedules, financial assistance and access to intensive support services to provide a coherent path to their degree. These are the students that most of the traditional higher education community has left behind.

New market-oriented colleges do the nation's work

Market-oriented colleges like University of Phoenix are an essential part of the solution. The land-grant colleges originally intended to provide broad access to education cannot do it alone. In their quest for prestige, many of them have raised both tuition and admission standards beyond the reach of most students. Community colleges are filled to capacity, graduating fewer than 25% and struggling to learn how to serve this growing population.

In this environment, the rise of private for-profit colleges and universities should be no surprise. These institutions provide educational access to a broad spectrum of students, and they push the envelope on important innovations in flexibility and quality because they are fundamentally organized to confront market forces. Taxpayer dollars are not available to these colleges to fund their growth or services. Rather, public dollars come in the form of loans and grants, which go directly to students to fund their education. As employers, market-oriented colleges pay into the tax system and provide local employment opportunities. It's a perfect example of America's free enterprise system, whereby demand for a service fuels the growth of innovation and supply. Not just any service – but one that our nation desperately needs.

Quality and Regulation

Traditions die hard, despite the dismal realities confronting our public education system. Regulation and popular sentiment favor the status quo. It's nice to believe that non-profit organizations have a higher moral purpose, but despite the extreme rhetoric about regulatory mishaps in for-profit education, there is no evidence that the accredited for-profits are any more or less compliant in regulatory matters than their non-profit peers. Indeed, if oversight is a comfort, the private, for-profit higher education sector is certainly the most examined and therefore most transparent in all of American higher education; accountable to local, state, federal and accreditation boards in addition to the Securities and Exchange Commission. They also must provide evidence of outputs or educational quality by maintaining comprehensive learning assessment systems, available to their regulatory overseers.

Education in the 21st Century

However, as with all innovation, skeptics abound to feed the culture clash between the old and the new. Those invested in the status quo objected when land grant colleges were introduced and also when community colleges came on the scene, railing against their supposed lack of quality, For-profit colleges are the latest target. We know that students will choose to earn their education both online and on campus, probably at multiple institutions, and from the colleges that can provide the most support and flexibility. There is no turning back - this is what education looks like in the 21st century.

My Opinion of UOP

I received my Bachelor of Science in Business Management from the University of Phoenix. I have had no problem getting quality employment with my degree from UOP. I attended both ground and online programs and found them more challenging than my classes at FSU and UNF (University of North Florida.)

My enrollment counselor Brian was very staightforward with me and helped me through the technicalities of getting enrolled and also helped me search for scholarships. I am currently working for a marketing firm in Jacksonville and make more than $50,000.00 per year.

I think many of the people that are upset with UOP are simply people that did not really want to invest the time in their education.

I give UOP two thumbs up.

UOP Debate

I have been reading the posts on UOP for over a year. It is currently becoming more of a debate between those that believe that those that don't. I can no longer see proof that UOP is a ripoff. It will be interesting to see what happens to the status of UOP in the next year.

The thread started out being a "whistle blowing" post. It has become a debate. Has the employee that started this thread seen justice? I believe that was the purpose.

My perception of UOP is that it is not a ripoff as much as it is a controversy in the evolution of education.

I am a graduate of UOP. I have obtained a job as an adjunct professor at a local university. My degree has not been laughed at by anyone. In fact, I have received much respect for completing the degree. It is an MBA with an E-commerce component. I read these posts to try and get an understanding as to the prestige of my degree. After almost a year of holding the degree, my experience has been good.

But,as I mentioned before, that is not why Brian started this thread. He wanted us all to know about his experience as an employee. I hope UOP gets that part of its organization straight. Because, as far as I am concerned, its education is great.

Joshua

"I think many of the people that are upset with UOP are simply people that did not really want to invest the time in their education."

Blanket statement.

Claim rendered invalid by the overwhelming number of claims seen herein and throughout multiple other sites.

You may have had a pleasant experience; I am able to concede that point. However, if I were to say that EVERYONE that has attended UOP and had a pleasant experience is delusional, that would be ignorant. Why? Because it is obviously not true. As with your statement, simply because a large group of people are upset UOP does not mean those people can be grouped into a single category of people simply didn't want to invest time in their education.

Ignoratio elenchi...

Basketball Player Shaq

I started taking classes with the University of Phoenix online in July 2005. I'm one class away from graduating (4/2007). Before I signed up with this school, I had my reservations about it. I signed on anyway.

I'm currently in the Master of Science/Administration of Justice and Security. I hold a BA from one of the top criminal justice colleges in the United States, John Jay College of Criminal Justice. What really made me sign on was Shaq. I was watching TV one night and the news reported that Shaquille O'neal graduated from the University of Phoenix with his MBA.

I said to myself that it must be a good school if a Multi-Millionaire who holds a degree from LSU went there. I conducted further reaserch and learned that a couple of other professionals went there as well.

This experience has been very challenging. I haven't experience too many problems from the administration aspect of the school. Yes, I had numerous financial aid advisors, and academic advisors as well. For the most part, when I needed them for anything, they would respond to my emails and phone call. I never had trouble with finanical aid at all.

When you start a new class, the students are required to post their bio's. I read each bio to see the undergraduate schools these students attended. I was surprised to see some students attended Penn State, University of Texas, USC, University of Maryland, etc. I will admit that from time to time I would run into a couple of idiots in my classes, but you can find that at any traditional school as well.

It's a roll of the dice when it comes to the classes. I had a few awful professors. I'm currently taking one now and she is horrible. Hey, I had horrible professors at John Jay College. Every student throughout their learning process had a couple of bad professors.

However, most of the professor that I had pushed you to the limit. They were hard graders. Almost every week, you had an APA format paper to do. I actually improved my writing skills after writing so many papers.

Also I learned a great deal from the material. The class structure makes you focus and concentrate on the material at hand. The courses are only 6 weeks long but they're not abbreviated courses, they're just compressed.

Let me bottom line this. You can have all the degrees in the world from top ranked institutions but at the end of the day, you still have to sell yourself on the interview. Talking properly, having the ability to work with others, dressing properly, and being good at what you know, are just as important as the degree itself.

Question for you B

B-
I have enjoyed all of the information that you have provided! I was considering enrolling at the Western International University- initially, I was turned off by the "hard sell" approach that I have encountered so far. If they are so great, why are they trying to push me into enrolling?? After reading all of the comments on this thread, I will definately be looking elsewhere.....

In my research, I have come across a couple of schools- I am interested if you or anyone has any insight. I have read reviews- but it is so hard to know whether a disgruntled few are the minority or the majority! I am searching for an online program for psychology.

There is a school here in IL called "Argosy University" which apparently used to be associated with the IL Professional School of Psychology(associated with, or took it over- it is unclear to me). They offer live classes and online, and also have a PsyD program, if I decided to go for it.

The other school I found was Fort Hays State University- which I found on a "10 Best Buys" sight for online tuition costs....the tuition seems very reasonable, and it appears to be a real "brick& mortar" university. Appearances can be deceiving!
I realize I might be crossing lines here-that this is not a forum for online college reviews, but everyone involved in theis discussion seems very knowledgeable about this, and figured I could take the ridicule if I am angering anyone....
I will apologize for any typos, grammatical erors and mispellings- its been a long day, cut me some slack!

I appreciate your feedback, thank you for saving me from WIU!!

UoP -- I'm Out

I've been enrolled with UoP for approximately six months now, and I can't stand it. The assignments are hard to understand, or even find to complete. Luckily, I have a federal grant, which is paying for my time there, but I'm dropping out at the end of this semester. I was all about UoP, until I started to realize the price for the education.

At UoP, I'll spend approximately $12K-15K for an associates degree, while I can goto a local community college, and have a better hands-on experience, for less than $5K. I can understand how UoP is getting money, simply because I work a full-time job, have a family, and have a son. I'm constantly busy, and wanted an easy way out. But, I've realized a simple conclusion, YOU CAN'T FIND AN EASY EDUCATION! So, with all that being said, quit trying to take the easy route, as it'll be much more difficult in the long run.

They are accredited, but as previously mentioned, it doesn't mean anything. I've learned that employers take an "online degree" as a waste of time and money.

The simple advice I can give, don't waste your time or money. It'll be tough, but find a local community college or university.

Response to your Question

Argosy is a private for-profit entity. They typically have pretty good programs, services and support online. They do have multiple ground campuses throughout the US. Tuition is often a little higher than most people prefer, right around $1400 per online course and $54000 for a full 120 credit BA degree. That works out to $10,920 for a 24 credit hour academic year. This is due to the fact that Argosy uses Federal Funding and they know you are eligible for loans in the amount of:
$7400 yr 1
$8300 yr 2
$10,500 yr 3
$10,500 yr 4
$10,500 yr 5
Referring to a 24 credit hour academic year 120credits/24credits per year = 5 years.

Grand total = $47,200 in loans. So if you don't qualify for Pell Grants too, you're paying approximately $8,000 out of pocket for tuition assuming you're not transferring any credits. In my opinion, that's expensive. But that all depends on if you're starting as a freshman or a junior.


With regards to Fort Hays, I know very little about them. What I do know about traditional campuses trying to offer online degrees is that in general, they're not very good at it. In the movie Fight Club Brad Pitt makes a comment about "sticking feathers in your butt does not make you a chicken..." This rings true with traditional education entities suddenly offering online courses. There is more to online than just translating ground based curriculum into an online format. I would be weary of many traditional education entities who offer online. They don't invest money into servicing the online student's needs. They treat you like a ground based student, the problem is that you're not a ground based. I would drill them on their services for online students before enrolling.

If you're coming in as a freshman or sophomore, take a look at Rio Salado Online out of Arizona. It is a member of state funded Maricopa Community Colleges. You can get your AA degree for around $7200 then transfer elsewhere. If you're coming in as a junior or senior check out either National University for their psych program ($1215 per class) if you need to use a Stafford Loan. Or Northcentral University ($825 per class) if you're not planning on using a Stafford Loan.

Either way, good luck.

B

From someone who does not hate UOP

For everyone who hates it so bad, take a deep breath and move on with your life. If you are going there and do not like it then transfer. If you have already transferred, give yourself a pat on the back for making your life “better,” and stop stressing yourself over your past “mistake.”

I like UOP. I have been going non-stop since June of 2003, only getting the week between Christmas and New Year's off. I go on campus, so that does include a night away from home. I work full time, and I am the Marketing/Fundraising/Public Relations Chair for my local chapter of Habitat for Humanity. My plate is full, but that is what happens when you go to college, work and volunteer at the same time. I have only missed one day of class since the day I started, and that was because I was in another state at my grandmother's funeral. I just spent Valentine's Day/my ninth wedding anniversary in class all night. I would have rather been home with my husband, but the class was my obligation. When I signed up to get my degree, I made a commitment with UOP and myself to follow the rules and do the best I could. The only change I would make at UOP would be to offer the chance to earn your Greek letters. I go to an on-ground campus and they are not available to us. It is a shame, because my GPA is good enough for it. That is fine though, my diploma will still say “with honors.”

Hooray for those of you who claim to do nothing and still pass. I for one have worked hard and had some very strict instructors. I have even had papers dropped to an A- for three mistakes (two commas and one commonly confused word). Would you like to know something? I am very thankful to have had teachers that were beastly strict. It has made me become a much better researcher and writer.

Do you think those things do not matter? If so you are clearly wrong. Some of the reports I have read on here from people that ended up getting a degree from another college amuse me. Do you write that poorly at work? Does your resume look that bad? Maybe that is why you cannot find a job. Ok, sorry for the insults, but I am just trying to make a point. You will get out of an education what you put in to it. More than 70 percent of what I have learned has been self-taught. I have learned most if it through my research for the dreadful (but sometimes fun) weekly papers.

I can run circles around many of the people I know that are attending state colleges for the same field of study I am taking. Why you might ask? It is because I do not take any assignment lightly. If I did, I would not learn anything from it. All of my papers go above and beyond the minimum requirements. True, I do not have to go so deeply into the topic, but I do it because I want to learn something. I want to be the best, future Marketing Manager I can be. If it means looking beyond a few things that I might disagree with in the school or classroom, then so be it. Are you satisfied with every single aspect of your life other than UOP? It is doubtful. No person, thing or institution is perfect and no one will ever be perfectly satisfied.

As for me, I will complete my degree by this September. If you recall, my first class (and I had no prior college credits) began June 2003. That is three years and three months. I will have a Bachelor of Science with dual majors in Business Management and Marketing. It has taken testing out of four classes and doubling up for three months to make it happen, but like I said, you get what you give. My lowest grade thus far has been an A-. I have a 3.9 GPA, and I plan on keeping it.

To Tom

Tom, I understand your defense of the instructors at UOP. I can say that one of the best courses I took was Economics in my masters program there. The instructor was highly educated and the academic standard in the class was high. However, the MBA program required 16 courses to complete it and 1 out of 16 does not cut it. I am sure your relative is actually quailfied to teach, but a few qualified individuals cannot make up for the majority that are not or simply do not care. There are some students that try extremely hard and receive high grades, but that does not make up for the majority of students that do very little and receive "B" grades. I have seen it first hand and I deminishes the high grades and the effort real students put forth.

Do not be fooled, making money is the most important thing to the new Apollo CEO Brian Muller. Before he was only the CEO of UOP Online. In 2003 I was in a meeting with Muller and he made a statement that really got me thinking. He said the he wanted to be at 1,000,000 students by 2010. 1,000,000 students is extremely ambitious but they have the money to make it a reality. However, that begs the ethical question of "should they". I think not and here is why. Lets assume that the number of students per course remains static, as well as the number of partime instructors and the pay scale for those instructors.

Typically you need 1 instructor for every 100 students as 1 instuctor could teach 6 classes per year that equals . This means that instructor to student ratio is 1:90. They would need to hire over 11,000 qualified instructors just to teach the classes. Considering that number alone, the current competition in the online arena, and the pay rate for instructors. I do not see that as possible. They can do it, but something will need to be sacrificed. As with many mass produced items, quality of product is usually first to suffer. I do not think education can be, or should be mass produced. Six Sigma principals cannot be applied to teaching quality so trying to mass produce educaiton will surely yield lower quality. With such a high relative price point, and increasing competition, UOP cannot afford to take that route.

Wow Kathy, thanx...

Thank you for that insightful lecture about your intellectual prowess. I am sure everyone will be enthralled with the exciting tales of your GPA and “with honors” accomplishments. You seemed however, in your great pursuit of higher education, incapable of extracting the fundamental concepts of the reading material at hand. You mention you go to the ground campus. The majority of this thread is about UOP Online. Since you are the intellectual type I would assume you might have known that UOP Ground and UOP Online are actually separate entities. Only until recently, (a couple of months ago), was Brian Muller, CEO of Online, promoted to President of Apollo Group after Todd Nelson stepped down. Only now, will the corrupt corporate culture of UOP Online began to seep into the ground campus system. The only thing that affected the ground campuses standards before was trying to keep up with the low standards in place at the online.

Let me address your statement. If you are indeed an “honors student” then your academic knowledge should lead you to understand that biased research yields biased results. Because of that I must ask you, have you been in another colleges degree program for a pro-longed period of time, or are you making these statements regarding the validity of UOP Grounds program without any exposure to another degree program?

Here is the thing. I have taken both online and ground courses at UOP. So when I see people bragging about high grades in either program I must snicker at them. Perhaps you should investigate the business aspect of a for-profit organization and how the bottom line really affects grade policy. EVERYONE who does the basic work in class will receive at least a “B”. I have had team members who have sub-high school writing skills and who have received a “B” grade in the Masters program. Why? Because the business wants you to keep taking classes so they can get more money from you. I will admit that online has been a much worse violator of such methodology, but the ground campuses are very competitive with online and are also guilty of such methods. Because online and ground are separate entities, there is actual product cannibalization ongoing within the University of Phoenix Brand. Throughout the Phoenix area there are ground campus advertisement signs for UOP attacking the Online segment with advertisements stating “Interact with more than your PC”. Competitiveness means retention. Retention means setting an equal field of battle between the two segments. That means most people will take the path of least resistance. Why would ground drive students away by instituting strict academic standards when the majority of those people will then just flee to UOP Online?

You are fooling yourself. My suggestion is to get some perspective. Considering I have now worked for 3 companies in education, 1 of which represents 6 institutions of higher education both for-profit and non-profit provides me some insight into the differences between a real graduate/undergrad programs and those offered by UOP ground or online. Non-profit colleges have no obligation to shareholders so profits mean something completely different. This has a trickle down affect that dictates the academic standards the university operates under. The difference in night and day. I have taken classes at every university out firm represents in order to understand the product we market. By comparing that to my masters program at UOP online and ground, I have concluded that UOP's program is a joke.

Listening to someone pat themselves on the back for good grades at UOP like you did is amusing. It is like announcing to the world you are the world's greatest athlete because you just won gold at the Special Olympics. Being the smartest dumb person isn't a bad thing unless you brag about it. Someone needs to take your little horn away because you have tooted it way too much without cause.

Don't get me wrong, I believe some education is better than none at all, and things can be learned at UOP with enough time and effort. But do not patronize people who have a wider swath of experience in education by making statements like the one above. Here is one way of determining your prowess. After you completing your degree/degrees go take some classes at a local campus and see how you do while working full time. Better yet, try and transfer your courses into a college like ASU or University of Arizona. I can bet you that they will not accept the majority of your credits regardless of grades. What does that tell you about the validity of the program?

Since we are bragging, I just totally dominated my 6 year-old nephew at Scrabble. He made some good plays and everything. He played A-P-P-L-E and D-O-G-G-Y but I totally came back with O-V-E-R-S-T-A-T-E-D S-E-N-S-E O-F A-C-C-O-M-P-L-I-S-H-M-E-N-T. I mean, I should get an award or something for being so smart. Does Scrabble give out Greek Letters for achievement? Because I totally deserve one…

B., thanks for educating me about the UoP online.

After reading many, many comments and rebuttals posted here regarding the UoP online, it appears to me that the "success stories" from some are the exception and certainly not the rule for the UoP online program.

Due to my "homework" researching the UoP online and thanks to RipoffReport, there will be one less scam victim, for now.

You are Just Bitter

I feel that everyone that has something negative to say about University of Pheonix must be just plain evil. i have been enrolled with th university ofPhoenix since august of 2007 and i love it.

I talk with each of my councilors at least once a week and they explain anything new that is taking place and answer any questions that I have about my classes or the school. They are a grop of individuals who do not deserve alll the slander.

I believe that the writer of this repeort is just angry because they lost their job, get over it and move on, yo ay you were one of the top paid, if they were so bad you wold have worked there for the years you did and yu would especially wouldn't have went to the university yourself.

i have had nothing butgood things happen to me since i started this school. i t i right for me i go to school when i have time and i am doing great currently averaging a 3.5 GPA. i couldn't ask for a better school. When i need tutoring i just go to my campus in brookfield and they have workshops you can go to online. Other universities and colleges that i have researched have never been this dedicated to ther estudents and my instructor comments o eveyones discussion question and its like we all get one on one time with our instructors.

All i can say is that with out the University of Pheonix I don't know where i would be i have always wanted to go to college but i have two kids and work third shift as a receptionist and it just is not possible with my schedule but when i heard about UOP then everything changed and it chaged for the best. Now i m much closer to forfilling my dream of strting my own business as an event coordinator.

Thank you to all the staff and faculty and UOP. I really love you for giving me this oppurtunity that would never have been possible without you.

A good way to tell if it is an "Accredited" institution

A friend of mine was contemplating signing up for Phoenix Online Classes and she wanted me to help her to fill out the financial information. She was a stay-at-home mom that did not have the time for campus classes. The cost was astronomical, but they made it look appealing to her because of the convenience of time. I put my phone on speaker so she could hear the conversation, then called the Registration Office at the University of Georgia in Athens. I asked them if they would accept credits from The University of Phoenix Online and they adamantly said no. If a school is in the "University System" they will accept credits from one school to the next - so if UOP is supposedly accredited, then why won't UGA take their credits on transfer? It's pretty clear to me. My friend decided not to enroll. Good call.
C

Response to Current Student in Wisconsin

Response to Current Student in Wisconsin

Ladies and gentlemen who might be reviewing this post, please, please, I beg of you, read Mr/Ms Current Student's post. Notice he or she mentions a 3.5 GPA. This is the type of student you would be in class with Scary right?

If this guy or gall can pull a 3.5 GPA, I have a retarded hamster that will graduate Valedictorian

Current Student: Thanks again for supporting my cause, feel free to come back and post any time. Your post was freakin' awesome

Current Student

You'll be upset when you receive your first bill from UoP, and realize you agreed to pay $15K for an Associates degree, when you can enroll in a local community college and pay no more than $5K for the same degree.

I'm still in UoP, but only for another two weeks.

Former Student of WIU, AXIA, and now University of Phoenix!

Wow, your letter really hit home. I have been doing TONS of research lately on these three colleges and have been appauled. I am going to be brief because the more I talk about it them more upset I get... I recently transfered over to finish my degree to UOP. I started with WIU back in 2003. I was told I get a 20% discount on my classes because I am a spouse of active duty military and I was sold! I thought finally I can finish my degree online since we move around so much, needless did I know I was going to get the short in of the stick at the end.

Anyway to make a long story short I never got the 20% discount was transferred over to Axia to finish my associates (which I did), then UOP which I just completed my second class (and my last one) and just found out I paid 20,241.00 for an associates degree..unbelivable. It is not so much the amount but the fact that I was lied to and now they are saying they have nothing to do with WIU and they never offered a 20% discount at WIU or Axia...go figure. Of course no one works there anymore that helped me like my counsler who enrolled me Sanjeev the 20% guy... If anyone had the same military discount or knows about it the 20% back in 2003 I would greatly appreciate your help in proving them wrong! Sincerely, Kim

What is UOP's career placement rate?

If all of this is true and it really is a diploma mill that would lead me to believe that most people who recieve degrees from this institution don't recieve job offers in their fields of study before or after graduation. I mean that is kinda pathetic its not even accredited by the AASCB. Even the lowest ranking state colleges where I live are accredited by AASCB.

I cannot believe some moron on here would compare this diploma mill to Ivy leagues. Ivy leagues accept only the top GPAs and test scores while this ripoff accepts anyone. U don't even have to take SAT, ACT GMAT, OR GRE!! WTF is up with that?

I love how the person defending UOP tries to bring up GPA lol. Who cares wat gpa u get in a fake online university? It doesn't count in real life if the school itself doesn't count! It sicken's me how people think that their online degree is just as valid as the one im working so hard right now for!

My degree is from a college where u have to get up in the morning and be there at the same time every day. Its not some online joke where u trade emails lol. I meet people face to face and learn how to deal with REAL people in REAL life not over the phone or on the internet!

Seriously Just go to a state school so u don't have problems with the validity of your degree

To: Rockymasonicaccountant

Normally I welcome criticism focused at UOP. In this case, the comments you make are directed at online education in general. As I have stated many times in my posts herein, I am a supporter of online education. UOP is the issue, not online education. Because of that I'll put some time in here and respond to your points.

You began your post with What is UOP's career placement rate? As with any online institution, it is relatively low. This has nothing to do with the quality of education. It has to do with the student demographic population at an online college verses a traditional entity. If you look at the research (Check Eduventures) the overwhelming majority of online students are 1. Adults. 2. Professionals. This means they are already in a career looking to advance within their organization or field. It becomes obvious that a college with 1000 bachelor graduates or master graduates that have never held a career position would have a much higher career placement rate than an online college with 1000 graduates already working in career. Don't let a generational bias be your gauge for academic quality. One has nothing to do with another.

Your second point has to do with AACSB (I assume that's what you meant when referring to AASCB) AACSB Association to Advance Collegiate Schools of Business. Only institutions with business programs are eligible for AACSB. This has no reflection on their other academic offerings and programs. This is not a gauge of institutional academic quality or regulation as with regional accreditation. It is simply a gold star for a specific school within an entity. There are plenty of great institutions, online or traditional, that do not have AACSB accreditation for their schools of business. This point has no real relevance to the argument surrounding the academic quality between online and traditional. If you research the AACSB you'll find the focus of accreditation surrounds the full time faculty ratios and backgrounds, not the academic program delivery.

With regards to online accepting anyone, and that somehow being a bad thing, well I guess that point depends on how you look at it. Yes, top Ivy League & traditional institutions try to limit enrollment to the top percentile by pre-measuring tests & essays. Good for them. What about the other 98% of high school graduates? What about the other 3 billion working Americans that might want to advance their education, learn something, and better themselves? Is your stance that only certain people should have the privilege of learning? Is it fair to require a professional with 20 years experience to take a test geared towards recent graduates of high school? If that same business professional fails to hit a high score on the GMAT, does this mean they shouldn't be able to learn in a master degree? If this is your stance please consider this. Unless you are a wealthy, white male, not to long ago you too would have been viewed as someone not worthy of learning. Let's go ahead and put the academic elitism away for now.

An individuals potential is not always apparent via testing. Do I feel that there should not be some measurement of academic integrity? No. However, I believe that like most things, the proof is in the pudding. If someone should be failing a class because of sub-par academics, then they should fail the class. Many online colleges treat their students just like traditional colleges. Failure is failure. UOP tends to pass people just so they can get the next courses tuition dollars. This lowers the academic standard. This however, is not a gauge of online education, just UOP.

With regards to waking up in the morning and going to class. Kudos to you. But I don't remember simply waking up and going to class as being an indicator of your standard as a student, or the quality of an institution. Some folks have a job and a family. In your world I guess those are excuses and the only valid way to learn is to do it the same way as you. Again, academic elitism. Let's be real, when you learn is irrelevant. Your next point is on how you learn: Online vs traditional face to face. Okay, so this is essentially a proximity argument then? Great! Along those lines I should learn more when sitting in the front of the class than in the back. In fact, any interface outside of interpersonal face to face relation of knowledge is somehow invalid. This means that although you read an author's books, you didn't really learn anything because he or she didn't relay it to you in person. So pretty much any medium, TV, books, internet, music, telephone, video conference, etc. These are all things to be avoided as they are invalid forms of communication or relation of information

It's amazing that those mediums are so popular today considering that there is no way people are getting the same information they would if they were there in person. Okay, I'll put the sarcasm away for now. If you are going to say that online education is inferior simply because of the modus of delivery, you are taking a stance that fails every legitimate litmus test. It is not when or how someone learned, it is what and if they learned. If quality and legitimacy are measured by face to face medium, you can tell my online stock broker that I really don't need to pay him because his services don't count. I'm sure he'd disagree with you and his fat salary seems real enough

The difference between being an academic and being an academic elitist is this. An academic believes their way of learning/teaching is the best way for them to learn/teach. An academic elitist believes their way of learning/teaching is the best and only way for everyone to learn/teach. Kinda like being religious, or being a religious fanatic. It's a big leap from praying to jihad.

Last point about state schools ASU is a state school. ASU is by no means the gold standard of academics

In the end, if online is so far inferior to traditional, why are so many traditional entities offering online degrees? It either is or is not a valid form of education. It cannot be both. So we're much better off judging an individual institution's quality based upon track record and merit. The online vs. traditional argument no longer applies. There is too much grey area.

Enough with the academic elitism. The problem here is UOP, not online education.

B...

I guess u and I have different views of education. I view education as a way to make yourself seem more appealing to potential employers and to gain practical real life skills. As an employer would u rather have an employee who had a rigorous concrete daily college schedule or an at your leisure online program? College is more about when you do the work than how u do the work or how well u do the work even. If u come in to do the exam 10 minutes late well then u fail it! Obviously u might learn more material if u can do it unrestrained by dates but in real life there r dates and deadlines.

In my opinion u simply don't get an adequate education without the deadlines and mandatory classroom time periods! If online education isn't inferior to traditional education then how come most of the elite institutes do not offer online degrees? Without the job placement and prominent alumni to back it up, wat is a university? I believe its the impact the university has on the world that makes it a worthwhile organization! Without that its just a paper mill.

Just having an impact on the minds of those who participate is simply not enough! Who cares wat you know or wat u say? Its wat you do that counts and online graduates simply don't cut it in the real world in my opinion! Would people want to vote for a senator who sat at home on the computer all day during his college years?

RE: DIVA327

Diva,
Did you take a class? By this I mean did you enter the class by logging in and posting 2 or more times in any given week?

If you did, you owe the money. Disclosure of failing to meet the minimum academic requirements for admission is your responsibility. They will say that you claimed to be eligible for the program you entered, so they allowed you into the program on good faith.

Their application for admissions requires that you submit minimum confirmation of educational background. If you did not enter anything on the prior educational history and can prove that your application shows you were ineligible and no one told you, you may have a chance to fight it. This is not impossible and I've seen advisors alter applications to show minimum requirements just so they can get the enrollment. However, you'll have to prove the advisor altered your application. The only way to do that is to prove another IP address, other than they ones you typically use, accessed your application website by logging in as you at any point in the admissions process.

Good luck with that.

In the end, 99.99% chance you will need to pay the money owed

Um ur not considered successful in my opinion

U worked for UOP and were low paid to do so i take it u don't have that gr8 of a job now right? I intern with KPMG ( sure hope u know the signifigance of that) and ive had several discussions with some of the hiearchy there and they believe online education for an undergraduate is a joke! Im not gonna debate with you anymore on the validity of online education b/c u can't debate the statistics of low job placement and lack of networking possiblities!

Im sure estanford or ecornell is just had hard to get into as the real institution and i never said many good colleges don't offer online programs! I SAID ELITE! Throw ur online piece of paper around all u want but instead of doing this how about u tell me where u are with ur life lol. So u as an employer would take excuses lol. Where the hell have u been corporations don't give a flying shit about ur family or your feelings!

Response 2: Rockymasonicaccountant

Your comment: As an employer would u rather have an employee who had a rigorous concrete daily college schedule or an at your leisure online program?

Your tactic here is extreme contrasts. On one hand you place traditional education in the category of rigorous and on the other hand you place online in the category of leisurely. This is often seen in the with us or against us mentality. It is not that black and white. Having to show up at a specific time in a specific location does not mean the course was rigorous. Being able to access a course of study when your personal schedule allows you to does not mean the course is leisurely.

To respond to your statement above, I will do so as an employer. When I interview a candidate there are many elements I am looking at. Education is simply one of the elements. Educational background is a pre-screening qualify, not the determining factor in the quality of the candidate. As I review a resume, if I see that a candidate completed a bachelor or graduate degree and it is apparent they did so while working full time, it speaks volumes. If you assume that all online students simply lounge around all day and have no other responsibilities you are mistaken. If you want to talk about rigor, work an 8-9 hour day, commute an hour each way, pick your kids up, cook them dinner, help them with their homework, put them to bed the go to school. Traditional education has left these professionals largely without a viable option. Online opens the opportunity for them. Leisurely? I think not.

Let's also talk about the need for both theory and application. Reading Dr. Spock's book on raising a child and actually raising a child are very different things. This is not to say that theory isn't important. You learn a great deal of important foundational knowledge as an undergrad. But how you apply that knowledge in practice is critical. This is why internships and work-study programs are so valuable. So as an employer, who would you rather hire, someone that has all theoretical knowledge (traditional bachelor graduate) or someone who either completed internships as part of their program or who worked full time and attended an online college? For me, the fact that I know they obtained both the theoretical knowledge and the application experience is extremely valuable.

If you want to test this theory go find some young children. Spend two weeks explaining to them how to ride a bike, let them read a book on it, but don't let them get on a bike until they successfully pass a test over the information learned in the past two weeks. Once they pass, put them on the bike without training wheels and push them… How many of them do you think will simply ride away smoothly vs. crashing? Next try the same thing with swimming Welcome to the world of business. This is why a bachelor degree from a traditional or online institution with no experience will only get you an entry level position 90% of the time. Who would I hire? Whoever the best candidate is. Let's be clear on something. Any degree, online or ground, guarantees nothing except and opportunity that may not be there unless you have it.

Your comment: If u come in to do the exam 10 minutes late well then u fail it!

Unfortunately, my employees must be late every now and then. If I assume they don't have lives outside of work, I'm foolish. Being 10 minutes late does not negate the need for their job to get done. This is a time management issue, not a something relevant to how well they actually do their job. You are contrasting social etiquette skills to theoretical & application based knowledge. Yes it is important personally and professionally to be on time. But if you think the only place you can learn how to do that is traditional college you are fooling yourself. This point has no relevance to traditional education quality being somehow superior to online or to the idea that traditional students are superior to online students. In the real world if I fired somebody every time they were late, I'd be dealing with a dysfunctional turnover rate and a production problem. Thus, out of business.

Your comment: In my opinion u simply don't get an adequate education without the deadlines and mandatory classroom time periods!

By this comment I can only assume you have no experience or limited experience with online education. If you did have experience, this comment would not have been made. Please try to avoid taking a stance such as this when it is obvious by conducting even the most minimal amount of research that online education does retain deadlines and even a mandatory class/time period at the majority of institutions.


Your comment: If online education isn't inferior to traditional education then how come most of the elite institutes do not offer online degrees?

Again, please do your research. Ever heard of Cornell (eCornell), Stanford, even Harvard? I would include the links but ROR blocks them out. There are literally hundreds of traditional, well known, well respects campuses offering online degrees and courses. Did you know you can get an online MBA from Colorado State? Here's one more, ever heard of Thunderbird College? Check them out and see if they are or are not considered one of the top business schools in the world then see if they offer an online degree


Your comment: Its wat you do that counts and online graduates simply don't cut it in the real world in my opinion!

I'm an online grad, I do very well in the real world. Please quantify what counts as cutting it. Considering two factors: 1. Online enrollment significantly outpaces that of traditional and even traditional education now offers online. 2. Online students are already in the real world. I would say your statement lacks weight.

Is your contention that a graduate of Colorado's St.s MBA program online is inferior to the graduate who attended ground? What if they did a mixed online/ground program? Is only ½ the degree valid?

Your comment: Would people want to vote for a senator who sat at home on the computer all day during his college years?

Who knows. What we do know is that Americans are more than willing to vote for a coke sniffing, draft-dodging, alcoholic, C student with a speech impediment for a double term. I'm guessing online education is low on this list of no-no's when it comes to politics if good ole' Jorge is still in office. Let's face it, he's set the bar pretty low. Most people could trip over it, online degree or not

Response 3: Rockymasonicaccountant

Ahhh, so disappointed.

See Rocky, I tried to keep this civil with a bit of sarcasm. It is obvious that your lack of intellect and insight into this topic leaves you resorting to insults and incoherent points. You revealed yourself truly with one comment. “I AM AN INTERN” (KPMG is a big company, I'm sure all the executives hang out with interns....) While I don't doubt the legitimacy of KPMG in the tax and audit field, the fact that you are an intern only proves many of the points I made earlier. The fact that you are an intern demonstrates that you lack significant knowledge and more importantly, the insight experience brings. This is why you're an intern. I am not knocking interns here, I hire interns too. I'm only knocking one intern who believes they know more about a subject they obviously know nothing about. In fact, your whole comprehensive doctrine surrounding online education seems to have been hijacked from a few other people's opinions, given that those opinions conveniently align with your belief system. Here's a thought, try thinking for yourself. Better yet, go experience something before you comment on it.

Elite? Perhaps you are referring to Ivy Leagues. Great, tell me this you educational fascist, what prompted the "Ivy League"? Let me give you a hint, it had nothing to do with academics If college athletics make institutions elite, then I guess the national champion each year means that's the best academic institution.

Do this, read through that series of posts between the two of us. Try to do this without personal bias, consider it an intern research project. Ask yourself, if you were a 3rd party reading this exchange, would you consider the points you make valid? Considering you have been completely outclassed in every aspect of this discussion I would figure you would just quit. I sincerely hope you don't because this just adds to my blog. The fact that you take the stance you take, but make the points you make, only supports my case that people who take issue with online education typically don't have a good reason why and cannot face the fire when it comes to a logical debate. Every time, without fail, they do what you have done.

With regards to my life and your LOL. You're an intern. Enough said.

Yes, a blog is a dorky hobby, but I obviously embrace it. You want to call me into question? Let's put it this way, you're basically calling me a loser. This reflects poorly on you. Not because you're a bad sport, but because if I am a loser, you just got your ass demolished and dominated in every way by some loser. Where does that leave you?

Anything else there Rocco? If not, the secretary on the 3rd floor is out of paperclips so get back to work.

No Info Verified

My EA nor the AA never verified my previous schooling info. I have graduated from high school yet, so how did I even attend college? Now I being sent to collections for non-paid courses. Can I fight this?

Ripped off in Utah by UOP

I came across this discussion quite by accident, as I was searching for a course syllabus from a class in Software Engineering that I took from UOP in 1999. The whole reason I am searching for the syllabus, which I cannot find and apparently is not taught at UOP anymore according to their catalog, is that after becoming thoroughly disgusted with UOP and its campus in Utah in 1999, I have decided (7 years later) to complete my degree at Weber State University in Utah. The credits from UOP that transfer to another institution are limited at best. Of the 44 that I completed, only 3 courses transferred over to fulful non-elective core areas. I am in the process of trying to convince the Administration at Weber that a few of the classes may equate to fill their core general education requirements, hence the research on past classes taken at UOP.

I am compelled to comment on this thread because of length of time that has expired since my attendance in 1998-99 to the comments that I see posted recently. Apparently, not much has changed with this school as many of the problem reported today are ones that I experienced over 7 years ago! Unfortunately, I completed 44 credits with this school and I am still repaying student loans that at one time totalled over $12,000. The problems that I experienced were a) being lied to about credit transfers to other institutions (very obvious to me now!) b) misleading statements from UOP personnel about the length of time to complete the degree and the ease of CLEP tests, which I knew nothing about at the time c) being saddled with other students in a group setting in which they do little or none of their share of work but your grade depends on the outcome d) tuition kept rising every go-round e) the courses that I attended were substantially less caliber than courses I took at even my community college. The list goes on, but the bottom line was that I felt I was getting shafted and finally got out. I guess I feel that if I am going to do business with someone, that it better be honest business. I never felt like UOP was honest with me in many regards, but perhaps at the time I was willing to believe the recruiter's statements.

I am truly grateful that I got out when I did after finally having enough. I have been so bitter about the experience since then that I haven't attempted to finish my education until this Spring. Fortunately, I have a great job now, but finishing my education was always important to me. Of the 44 credits I completed, the majority transferred as electives only. Although unfortunate, I have only myself to blame for not researching the transfer issue further and taking someone's word for it at UOP. I am even more grateful that I did not complete my degree at UOP, as they are not highly regarded by anyone that I am aware of, particularly in this area of the country. As an employer, when we see two candidates side by side with similar qualifications and one has a degree from UOP and one from Utah State or another legitimately founded and accredited institution, we gravitate toward the latter when making a choice. When someone mentions in conversation that they have attended UOP, the comments are usually negative as to the experience. When someone mentions that they received their degree from UOP, many people's reaction is "Oh, I'm sorry".

I had a close friend graduate from UOP this year after about 6 years of struggling to complete her degree while having 2 children, etc. She even worked in the financial aid department for approximately a year and received reduced tuition. I feel sorry for her because she paid so much for a sub-standard education. I know that she was equally frustrated with UOP but was in too deep to go anywhere else to finish. I have licked my wounds and am moving on, but I would strongly encourage anyone that considers attending this "University" to fully research any questions you have before committing to anything. In addition, call up a few major employers in your area and just ask them what their perception of a degree from University of Phoenix is. Find out for yourself what it is worth and calculate the entire cost before you commit.

I did see a recent post that commented on the instructors at UOP. I can say that I had a few very positive experiences when it came to the instructors at the Utah campus and some of them were very knowledgeable. But the instructors are not the problem, it is the compressed sub-standard cirriculum and course content combined with the greed and dishonesty of the administration.

Overall, I wanted to share my experience as a warning, and perhaps to finally write off that part of my life as a bad experience and move on. I spent about a half hour reading the back and forth comments between B and Pap, and can only say that as a student, the experience was more in line with B's description thans Pap's if that makes any difference.

PLEASE BE CAREFUL AND INFORM YOURSELVES!

Oh Lord, I was really fearing this...

I am currently pursuing a bachelor's degree in Criminal Justice at UoP.

I went straight into the family business after high school & I pay my tuition out of pocket. I work about 80-90 hours a week for my parents; so I thought I had fallen into a great thing. I really need some advice here. Being a year and a half in... should I continue?

My concerns are:
1. Is this place really accredited?
2. If my credits won't transfer but my degree will, should I get the degree and then do grad work elsewhere? *(assuming the degree will work)
3. I understand people are less likely to hire a UoP grad than someone from a state school, but are they completely worthless?

The retards who could not count, spell, write, or think were in my first 3-4 classes; but now I am with people who are fairly smart & their companies pay for them.

^The above concerns me... why would a large business pay for their employee to attend a joke of a school?


Thanks to any advice/info anyone can give me.

-Ohlord.

what can i do??

I just enrolled a couple days ago at UoP. I havent started any classes not even oreientation. After reading everything on here I am scared and do not want to attend this place. Since I have not started any classes can I get out of it without it costing me? should I contact FASFA and let them know i will not be attending that shool? HELP please

University of Phoenix keeps adding classes to my schedule...

According to some it is worthless but it was a goal of mine that I would like to finish.

I am schedule to graduate in June of 2006 but around January I received a letter from UoP showing my graduation requirements. It showed all the classes I took and what I still needed. Surprisingly it also showed that I need 3 elective classes and a math elective class. Some how the university added 4 classes to my schedule. After speaking with the counselors, I have had 8 since I started 2 years ago. It was told to me that it was all undergraduate stuff.

Fortunately I have been to many schools. I only submitted transcripts from the school I got my A.A. at. I was accepted. I told them I have plenty of under graduate electives so I will submit transcripts from my other schools. Hopefully they will honor those and I can graduate on time. I am not holding my breath.

As I started to think about my whole experience at UoP I started to realize that the school was a business and not a place for higher learning. When I was accepted in the program my EA, as they call them, said nothing of these classes. About 6 months after starting at UoP I was informed that I need to take a Math class, a Critical Thinking class, and an English class because I was deficient in these areas. Again, no previous mention was mad of these needed classes. After much debate I was informed that I could try to test out of them. I did pass and the classes were waived.

Another 6 months later on of my counselors mentioned I need an elective math class even though I just test out of one. This class again was not mentioned by my EA or on my initial graduation course schedule. It just popped up out of the blue. As I was still a year from graduation I paid no attention to it. Six months later, like clock work is when I got the letter from UoP that I was shy the math and 12 undergraduate elective credits. These credits seem to be the same ones that I tested out of the year before. I was informed that I could try to test out of them again but this time it would cost me $50.00 each try.

I then started to speak to former UoP students and it seems that this type of extra class adding is common place. Every former UoP graduate had the same experience. A meaningless math class showed up near graduation that must be taken or no diploma. But you can still go through graduation as long as you only have 15 credits or less to go.

I then started to speak to classmates and around 10 of them said the same thing happened to them with the 3 proficiency classes and the late add-on math class. I then realized the whole scam. I thought. After reading the post at this website I realized that I am but a small part of a huge government Title IV rip off program by the University of Phoenix disguised as a higher learning education.

B You hit the nail on the head

I have been on the net long enough to know that slogan has been around for years and but yet it proves my point perfectly from your response. By the way that's the 2nd rule. I have been in the computer business longer than you been ripping people off, back when they used BNC's to form networks.

You are the morally corrupt, "Let my start by saying that I was an enrollment advisor for University of Phoenix Online, and AXIA/WIU Online under Apollo Group for 3 years. I recently quit from my position as one of their highest paid advisors. Paid on the amount of enrollments I did in 2003." It took you 3 years to realize this is wrong and you have the gall to call other people stupid? Wow that is funny, most people would have walked away from the start, so you made money off of those poor people you now want to save. You then come on here and try to take the moral high road to redeem yourself is laughable and ridiculous.

You are correct when you talk about the state of our nation, the president and big business. However it's all politicians so lets not split hairs, they are all corrupt puppets of some form. You failed to realize what I was saying about capitalism, if people are dumb enough to buy the "pet rock", who are you to tell them "No, don't it's not alive" after being one who sold them. Now that was all metaphoric, if you want I can draw you a picture.

Perception is Reality

B I can respect some of your points but when you call people stupid your words lose their value. Save your breath about trying to rip into me cause my perception is a bit different than yours. Stop your internal dialogue about "How wrong you are."

UOP is a bit Mickey Mouse, however, some people are still putting in the time and effort. Putting them down for trying to obtain the best grade possible, is working backwards and only defeats your point. If you can get the degree as the stepping stone towards betterment of your life regardless of being a higher degree, a job, a promotion or just sense of accomplishment. Is that so bad? It's obvious that UOP is about the money and cranking you out. That's why it's called capitalism.

You want to speak of the Special Olympics, arguing on the internet is very similar cause even if you win, you are still retarded.

M: Round Two

Look at the Big Brain on “M”! Wow, can you please draw me a picture? Easy there Captain Computer, you have been around the computer business so long you might have forgotten how to use a pencil. Can you do it in Photoshop or Correl Draw for me? Either way, you seem to forget the part about reading the entire post before extracting points out of it. See, you tried to look all intelligent by taking a quote from my original post here in order to discredit me and make me look like the bad guy. However, perhaps due to ADD, you somehow forgot to read the rest of the post. Here, to make it easy for you I'll show you what I said: Paragraph 3 “The company as a whole does contain good people, some of which do try and help and have good intentions. The problem stems directly from one man the CEO, Brain Muller. He has set in motion internal policies that create a hopeless scenario for all within the organization. They either comply, lose money, or are fired. When you start threatening a person's lively hood, they will usually fall in line. This is why so many good people have had to deceive or lie to potential students, and why you see so many reports in this forum.”

See there M, a quasi-intelligent computer wiz like yourself should have caught that. But instead, you only succeeded in making yourself look like an… wait, they'll omit this if I say it. See, I realized that an organization can be successful selling education the right way, the honest way. They can turn a profit and actually help people. When I began to see that Brian Muller had no intentions of handling growth and profit with the slightest bit of moral or ethical concern, I did leave. I was extremely successful, but I was always honest. So basically your whole point just now was simply an attempt to attack me because you did not like what I said to you. This only goes to validate my original point about the reaction of people when you threaten their safety zone.

Pet Rock? Show me a pet rock that costs $60,000 and that people can use US tax dollars to purchase. Then again, if we are comparing this to UOP they would only be claiming it was a pet rock when you are looking to buy it. Then when you get it, its just a box full of crap. Not a rock, not even a petrified turd which might resemble a rock with enough effort, just a heaping, steaming pile of crap. And we all know that no matter how hard you try, you just can't polish a turd…

P.S. M, please do not forget the picture you promised to draw me…

B The Polished Turd Self Relization

B first and foremost I am not threatened by you or your diatribe about something you believe in, in fact I am cool with that part.

However, you still took the money, that does make you a part of the bad guys. You are saying you did nothing wrong is like saying the gun acted alone in killing someone. It is the people that squeeze the trigger. I doubt you had anyone holding a gun to your head. You make it clear that you are so much smarter but yet you wallow in your pathetic excuses and lacked the testicular fortitude to get up and walk out until after the fact.

Let me show you where you attacked me first, your brain must be melthing from the heat down there. 'First rule of posting witty retorts on the net is to make sure they are your own. Nice line about the Special Olympics and arguing on the net. I must have seen that come through my email account with the handicapped kid crossing the finish line at least 100 times. Since you are familiar with UOPO then at least give credit to the original author or put the quote in APA formt. If you are quoting spam, I guess next you are going to tell me that you finally got your check from Bill Gates because you forwarded that email 5 years ago, and that your luck has been outstanding lately because your forwarded the "good luck" email to 10 people in the "next 5 minutes".'

As for the picture, I was going to draw it crayon to bring it down to your comprehension level but I realized that it would be a waste of time, oh and good job and knowing 2 computer photo/art programs. You get a star!

You obviously can't handle a differing opinion than your own, next time don't put in an open forum. You being uber-intelligent would have figured that out but apparently you're not as quick as you talk yourself up to be. If you would have understood my original post you would have seen that I agreed with some of what you had to say. You then went on your idiotic diatribe.

"M" Dont know who you are but oh well...

"M" must be for mystery, because I do not recall reading a thread from you in this area. But since you felt the need to chime in, here we go again.

First rule of posting witty retorts on the net is to make sure they are your own. Nice line about the Special Olympics and arguing on the net. I must have seen that come through my email account with the handicapped kid crossing the finish line at least 100 times. Since you are familiar with UOPO then at least give credit to the original author or put the quote in APA formt. If you are quoting spam, I guess next you are going to tell me that you finally got your check from Bill Gates because you forwarded that email 5 years ago, and that your luck has been outstanding lately because your forwarded the "good luck" email to 10 people in the "next 5 minutes".

If you read through the posts on this site, every person I attack comes in here trying to spout non-sense because they do not want to accept the truth. What I say about UOPO violates the safe little space they live in where every decision they make is perfect. When someone challenges that space, most people react with anger. If you go back through the posts, you will see the only people I go after are the people who come in here pissed off or spouting nonsense. They serve only to perpetuate ignorance. Instead of conceding that they may not know what they are talking about when it comes to how UOP operates, or that they really have no perspective on what a real college program entails, they simply argue nonsense.

These people are the same people who do not research anything, they look at what is on the surface of something and then form their entire comprehensive doctrine around a few superficial points. I call these people "Bush Voters".

As for your little lecture about capitalism, I am all for it. But maybe you should do a little research on the effect morally corrupt corporate entities are having on our country. When I hear someone try to argue capitalism and try to use it as an excuse or license for corporate entities to do whatever they want, it makes me cringe.

Wasn't it Teddy Roosevelt that said he did not want a single millionaire to be created from the devastation of the war? Now our country is in a war that is making corporate entities billions of dollars. This is all done under the guise of "hey, that's just capitalism". So for the future, just save your political rhetoric on this topic. UOPO and their exploiting and dishonest methods to make money represent everything that is wrong with our country. The only thing that is worse is people who are too blind to see it and support it through comments like you just made.

B: Yes you smear yourself all over the place

I am finding it very amusing that when your own tatics and points are used against you, you twist them again in an effort to prove you are right.

If you have to swim through a river of crap, it's of your own making. Be a man for once in your life and accept the responsibility that you keep running away from.

If the words I use are big and you need to look them up, that's your problem not mine. If you want to make homosexual comments, save them for your boyfriend or life partner (your choice of words on that).

Oh and I do enjoy making you show yourself as the mental pygmy you are!

Gotta go the wives and me are going to have an orgy.

Come on M, I expected better

Okay, I'm not even going to count that as a round becuase you didnt really try. I am going to give you another chance before I reply. This time try using your own material. You can't use what I did, we have already been over this with the whole internet spam thing.

Okay, lets try something original this time.

and go...

M Round 3

See what happens when you try to polish a turd? You just smear it everywhere. This was such a clean posting room prior to your arrival. Oh well. Much like Andy Dufrane in the Shawshank Redemption, I will swim through a river of “M” crap to come out clean on the other side.

You totally got me on the computer art programs thing. I totally had to search the net for hours and hours just to find those two programs. Man was I beat after that. And could you stop using them big fancy words n such like diatribe and testicular fortitude? And man, that was a zinger with the whole reference about my brain melting because I live in Arizona. Wow, that was original, who would have been witty enough to use an “Arizona is a hot place” reference. Big Ups to you on that one. That's just as witty as me asking how many wives you have because you live in Utah. Are you going to be in that new HBO series “Big Love”? And I think you were lying to me about the picture, crayon would be fine but you really shouldn't make promises you cannot keep. I am extremely disappointed in you.

By the way, if you think that was attacking you about the spam stuff, then I would advise you to go get some Midol to fend off your cramps or some Estrovent to stop the hot flashes and nipple sensitivity you must experience. Testicular fortitude? Hey man, lets leave each others nuts out this, whatever you do up in Utah is fine by me, but that dog wont hunt down here. (its too hot… …remember?)

Arguing with your assumptions about what I did as an EA at UOP is futile because you are using speculation and assumption to try and prove your point. You know what they say about assuming things? If I was at all shady in my endeavors there, I would still be working there as a manager teaching others how to manipulate people. They changed their approach to sales, increase price to an unreasonable point, began manipulating numbers for shareholders, lied about overtime payments to the AZDOL, lied about financial aid dispersing to Title IV, lied about recruiting practices to the DOE, and created a scenario where employees could either lie and cheat, get fired, or leave. It even got to the point where they asked me to lie to the new training classes. Many of the people that work there do not even know they are being dishonest because that is how they were trained by the company. I tried to do it the right way, when I no longer could, I left.

We can keep beating a dead horse here if you would like but if you are going to keep this up, pick something that has a legitimate claim here.

“Never rub another mans rhubarb!” The Joker. This thread is my rhubarb. Did you want to keep rubbing it?

New York Times

Surprised at the lack of comments after the NYT article...When the "Old Grey Lady" gets involved, things are usually shaking...

Anyhow, interesting reading here. I have my own story, but first want to comment and thank this past recruiter for telling his story. It's interesting how otherwise good people convince themeselves what they are doing is OK. Undoubtedly most of the employees are making a choice between livelihood and cutting a few corners or telling some fibs. We are all weak (me too!) which is why we must recognize its when corruption is institutionalized and folks assume if the boss says its ok, it must be, that things get dangerous.

Anyhow, I am pursuing a degree in Masters of Counseling. When requesting admission criteria, the recruiter explained the realities. HE never told me, despite a month of communication, that I would first need to "pass" the apparently secret "course" called portfolio, which later I learned is called a "admission readiness assessment." I am therefore under the mistaken impression I have been admitted to the Grad program, but really have only been admitted to an admission interview.

The UOP acts like they are in the right when I complain. I can't recall the last time I've encountered such arrogance. But now that the NYT is involved, this story should be getting more legs and more acceptance, I hope!

"B", How does Regis compare to UOP or the others that you do like?

Hi, sorry if double post but don't see my original post. What are your thoughts regarding Regis University? Simple online degree bashers need not respond.

What is your opinion B and other intellegent people that are posting here.

TIA!

Regis

Tia,

Regis was one of the first traditional ground campuses to really embrace the online format. With that, they are ahead of the other traditional entities offering online courses and degrees. They are well known for the quality of their K-12 Masters of Education programs. I believe they have a few other offerings outside of Education as well. From what I know, they appear to have a solid program and good brand name. From what I have heard, they still treat admissions much like a traditional entity even for their online offerings, possibly requiring a series of essays to enter or even the GMAT or GRE exam.

I would say for education based programs, they would be a good option but please do your homework on their comprehensive services for out of state online students. Compare that to the overall time/cost investment vs. some other entities. The time/cost includes the pre-test costs if they still require those. Most of your for-profit online entities will not have the same testing requirements. Although Regis is a good program, I'm not sure any additional efforts or investments would pay more of a return to you than with any other online degree program from an accredited school.

Hope this helps.

Thanx B

Thank you B, yes it helps a bunch!

What other schools "may not matter but I live in CA" for an online degree in IT would you reco?

I knew this place was stealing my grant money....

They didn't even have all my classes in my schedule listed at first, and didn't change it until I mentioned something about it (Planned Obsolesce/Failure?). They for some reason started distributing my "excess" funds in two checks instead of the usual one check. I don't know why they would do this unless giving them a few more days of using my money to their benefit really makes any difference. I told them to take my loan money, and they did, but then when my pell grant money arrived they sent it to me about two weeks after the money had been dispersed to them. I just recently received my 1098t form and on it the list my taxable income as being much lower than what it actually is. They basically lied and said they took my grant money part of my loan money, and made no mention as to why they are about $1,000.00 short on the form. Wouldn't that get ME in trouble when I file my taxes here in about a week?



I am going to this school for Information Technology, and ever since I enrolled I've had the thought that I've made a huge mistake . Going here for my associates degree is going to end up costing $19,000+. I am pretty sure that I want to transfer out of this school into one that is actually accredited in my field. The problem is that I have no idea what other schools would be good to go to, and would accept the credits from uophx. I don't want to waste the over 5k I have invested already. I currently have a 3.84GPA, and if you have any suggestions for an American citizen living outside the US currently please shoot me an e-mail or a reply to this message. Take note that a ground school isn't for me, because I have two very young kids (2 years, and 4 months). I seek a well accredited institution, and (no seriously it's not a joke) want to get my Bachelors from M.I.T. but I know that they will NOT accept UOPHX credits. Hell I wouldn't accept UOPHX credits if I were a gas station manager, let alone an actual real accredited university. You know what the biggest thing that angers me is? The instructors think that because they are employed by UOPHX they are geniuses. God, they might as well be Apple employees.

Thank you, N.

Ken, I understand your point and if you were comparing apples to apples I would say you were right.

However, the problem comes with a few unmentioned factors. First, UOP is a for-profit college that uses Title IV funding. The comparisons you made to the other colleges have a drastic difference from UOP in the enrollment and sales process. If a person decides to go on a diet then so be it. If a person chooses U of I or St Luis, then that is their choice. I have been through the enrollment process at a non-profit ground campus so I know that it is pretty much on the person to get through it. With UOP, the process is a selling process. Any time you place admissions into the hands of sales reps with incentive plans, you run the risk of shady business. There is a difference between choosing to go to a school, or being lied to about a school and then choosing to go to school. Having sales reps disguised as ?counselors? gives people a false impression. It is the same thing as a person claiming they are a dietician or doctor and giving someone diet tips and selling them on a diet program when they really have no expertise in that area. The buyer might be seeking self improvement, but this does not justify a sales person lying or misleading them.

My other problem is that UOP uses Title IV grants and loans which are based off of US tax dollars. I would have a problem with diet plans if people were using US tax dollars to pay for their pills. I would have even more of a problem if the people selling the pills were lying about the results just to get people to buy the pills.

I am all for self improvement, but when it comes to UOP, the means does not justify the end.

OK Lets look at this issue in today's society

Hello I have to partially disagree with the bad vibes against UOP
All Universities are expensive, whether you attend in a physical class room setting or their online curriculum.
A friend of mine finished up his Masters in Sociology at University of Illinois, cost factor was $53,000.
Another associate finished up a degree in law at University of St. Louis, at the tune of $57,000.
Lets face it folks self improvement is expensive no matter were one is attending. It is like a diet program which is a hot market, self improvement is a hot market, and online education is growing leaps and bound.
No one person from any university can actually guarantee you a job out there, due to the ever-changing industries.
Self improvement is tough especially in today's society but does leave a small window of opportunity for the baby boomers to grab a career change to take us into our retirement, considering the generation behind us is the drug and dropout generation.
There is and will be more of a gap for qualified people with any degree from anywhere.
It is plain as the nose on ones face that if the interviewer is partial toward Harvard University grads well that is who they will focus on, if the interviewer is partial toward grads from Southern Illinois University Carbondale that would be the focus.
For a long time heard bad vibes about SIU being nothing but a place to party and get in trouble.
Heard some whispers that grads from SIU have a degree in party and fun, so no matter what University you will hear feedback.
University of Chicago all they do is pass illiterate people with teaching degrees, another rumor.
It does not matter what degree you have, having a degree is one thing knowing the right people in key positions is another.
If you don't get out there and network the right people that degree from any school is worthless.
I have been doing business since 1983 and if I don't get out there and network at an after hour network event, a chamber meeting or even a Microsoft event etc, well simple no business, school is the same way.
I have had several career recruiters tell me, that the degree in some cases is not as important as an individual's stability, dependability, industry experience, and background and drug history (Is it clean)
I am sure that your academic advisors from any school will tell students this.
Feedback to me as well, this is what mandates the industry in technology, 10+ years industry experience, work history of solid 10+years in any area, clean background, if the person is teachable and a 2 / 4 year degree from any university in computer science as well as information technologies. I have to say one thing 2-3 year industry experience in ORACLE / COLDFUSION app dev… is sweet, wow low!!!! Yes I have actually seen these qualifications, not to mention great pay, it is slow but at a creep technology is coming back S-W-E-E-T!!!!!
Timing and positioning is everything, if you have a degree from anywhere, timing and positioning is off, that degree is not being utilized you can say it is pretty much a piece of paper.
Had another recruiter tell me that school curriculum is one thing, a person's discipline level is another, he went on to tell me that we have hired young people that have degrees but they are not dependable surely not stable.
Rule of thumb if the interviewer likes you, chances are you will make it to second base in the interview process.
I have had interviewers tell me that 40% of applicants do not make it to the interview on time let alone through the process.
Whatever UOP is doing underhanded, it will come back on them one day because the law of averages, what goes around comes around.
Thanks Appreciation, Ken

OK Lets look at this issue in today's society

Hello I have to partially disagree with the bad vibes against UOP
All Universities are expensive, whether you attend in a physical class room setting or their online curriculum.
A friend of mine finished up his Masters in Sociology at University of Illinois, cost factor was $53,000.
Another associate finished up a degree in law at University of St. Louis, at the tune of $57,000.
Lets face it folks self improvement is expensive no matter were one is attending. It is like a diet program which is a hot market, self improvement is a hot market, and online education is growing leaps and bound.
No one person from any university can actually guarantee you a job out there, due to the ever-changing industries.
Self improvement is tough especially in today's society but does leave a small window of opportunity for the baby boomers to grab a career change to take us into our retirement, considering the generation behind us is the drug and dropout generation.
There is and will be more of a gap for qualified people with any degree from anywhere.
It is plain as the nose on ones face that if the interviewer is partial toward Harvard University grads well that is who they will focus on, if the interviewer is partial toward grads from Southern Illinois University Carbondale that would be the focus.
For a long time heard bad vibes about SIU being nothing but a place to party and get in trouble.
Heard some whispers that grads from SIU have a degree in party and fun, so no matter what University you will hear feedback.
University of Chicago all they do is pass illiterate people with teaching degrees, another rumor.
It does not matter what degree you have, having a degree is one thing knowing the right people in key positions is another.
If you don't get out there and network the right people that degree from any school is worthless.
I have been doing business since 1983 and if I don't get out there and network at an after hour network event, a chamber meeting or even a Microsoft event etc, well simple no business, school is the same way.
I have had several career recruiters tell me, that the degree in some cases is not as important as an individual's stability, dependability, industry experience, and background and drug history (Is it clean)
I am sure that your academic advisors from any school will tell students this.
Feedback to me as well, this is what mandates the industry in technology, 10+ years industry experience, work history of solid 10+years in any area, clean background, if the person is teachable and a 2 / 4 year degree from any university in computer science as well as information technologies. I have to say one thing 2-3 year industry experience in ORACLE / COLDFUSION app dev… is sweet, wow low!!!! Yes I have actually seen these qualifications, not to mention great pay, it is slow but at a creep technology is coming back S-W-E-E-T!!!!!
Timing and positioning is everything, if you have a degree from anywhere, timing and positioning is off, that degree is not being utilized you can say it is pretty much a piece of paper.
Had another recruiter tell me that school curriculum is one thing, a person's discipline level is another, he went on to tell me that we have hired young people that have degrees but they are not dependable surely not stable.
Rule of thumb if the interviewer likes you, chances are you will make it to second base in the interview process.
I have had interviewers tell me that 40% of applicants do not make it to the interview on time let alone through the process.
Whatever UOP is doing underhanded, it will come back on them one day because the law of averages, what goes around comes around.
Thanks Appreciation, Ken

Response to B

Hello B from Phoenix….
Thanks for the information but it is all sugar and glory out there no matter what is being sold.
It translates to the end user, their investment and if they are happy with the products and service in focus.

As far as US tax dollars being used, well SSI does the same thing and there are people out there do not need SSI but they are getting it, wrongfully, my opinion.

Otherwise getting back to the issue of sugar coating and glory, I have a computer business, have had people call me to tell me they are buying a computer from a department store (can be any of them out there) they want that 299.00 special for a computer system, well they are all glory and giggle on getting that system for 299.00, they think they are getting a great deal, they will continue to ask me is it a great deal. I will tell them, it is a deal, a computer, no not of a great category.

They will not understand they will respond how your systems differ than a department store.
I will tell them that a department store is a reseller, to hold their 30% profit margin it is a no frill cheap computer because the boxed system is just another product in that store on the shelf, they want to push out the door keeping the profit margin strong, therefore they will sugar coat and hype a thrill, to glorify a product just to sell it.

I can guarantee you one thing you won't find Gigabyte, Northwood and Xeon on these off the shelf 299.00 specials.

The haunting fact of the matter is, everything works that way due to Q-public they want to see thrill in buying products and service, they want to be motivated to buy, why should I buy.
I have a video phone product that works on broadband only, now I have a hard time selling it, due to I am not hype oriented person.
If you for example were a potential customer, wanted some information on the video phone, I would give you the information you wanted with no frill, thrill just the truth on the product.
You probably would not buy because I was not thrilling, glorifying a sales pitch to sell a product.

I sold a few but VoIP is on the horizon, so it is picking up slow but I give people what they want to hear only the truth, yes the truth.
People always want to know how they can save money on their phone bill, I will tell them about the video phone and their phone bill can be $19.95 per month plus taxes and E911 that will add another 4.15 that brings the bill to 24.50 approx per month.

I attend marketing sales workshops and they are unbelievable, so far fetched, and unreal.
One particular workshop the guy jumps up to the front and so full of sh*t it was funny, a laugh, just ridiculous to say the least.

In the wind up after his intro he told the attendees that at the end of this event I will be able to sell everyone here anything I am selling, because I'm good at working with marketing and setting tone presentation to potential customers.
Well I guess I won't be rich because that is not my selling technique, I want you as a customer to be happy and satisfied with the products I have to sell.

I knew someone working at EIU several years ago, she worked in marketing she went on to tell me that enrollment that particular year was down and they were putting a marketing campaign into place to beef up enrollment for the following year. So I am sure they glorified an ad campaign so the initial statement will grab parents to send their kids to EIU for their educational experience and growth.

You stated you worked in enrollment, well your job was to sell education to working adults, and you were just doing your job.

It is out of your hands whatever upper management is doing underhanded. As far as the reorganizing and restructuring of the salary, well everyone is doing this.

It sounds like to me you're a person that wants more in life that UOP can offer so it was time to move on, everyone moves on.
Thanks Appreciation, Ken