Impulse Marketing, DsMax, Granton Marketing, JPR Marketing ripoff Cult company. Nationwide

I'll state my two cents and then i'm never coming to this site again. i just spent the last hour reading posts on this website. i've been with the company for less than a week, so i don't think i've been brainwashed, thank you very much.

first of all, i'm sorry for all of you that had bad experiences. there is no excuse for being ripped off, and you deserve to be pissed. an abusive manager is a heavy burden to bear in any workplace. i know because i had one at kmart, and at the three fast food restaurants that i worked at growing up. just for the record, the people at my company have been nothing but professional and polite to me. after having several conversations with the employees, i found that most of them are close with their families (my "day of O" manager made calls to both his girlfriend and his mother throughout the day). one of the managers has a newborn baby, and he is also one of the biggest producers in the company. so for those people who say that you have to abandon your family to work here, CALM DOWN. you have to commit yourself to the company, sure. you have to do that with ANY COMPANY. if you want to play on the internet all day, and then have your 3 day weekends to yourself, work at kmart. im sure they're hiring...

this company is NOT FOR EVERYONE. i'm not saying that because im brainwashed. im saying it because it was obvious from the first day. this job forces you to motivate yourself, and i don't really see anything wrong with that. if you don't want to go door to door in order to prove yourself, DON'T SIGN UP. if you don't think you can motivate a group of 3 or 4 distributors to meet their quotas, DON'T SIGN UP. yes, it's a risky proposition. my dad worked for the same company for 10 years, burning a hole in the carpet behind the same desk. and then they canned him and put my whole family on the street. but he didn't start a damn website badmouthing the CEO and all his employees. he got off his ass and got a better job.

frankly, i'm glad for the opportunity. i hope i do well, and i plan on busting my ass to get there. and no, i don't plan on being a manager that lies to his applicants just to empty their wallets into mine. i plan on hiring people who can RUN shit. if that means that some people are going to get lost along the way, then i'm sorry. YOU WERE WARNED AT THE DOOR. if going 30 days without seeing your dreams come true is going to put you and your kids out on the street, then jesus, maybe you shouldn't join a company that pays on commission only. it's not a ripoff, but it is a risk. if you want a guarantee, work in retail. they pay minimum wage, and you might even get a 50 cent raise after six months.

one more thing: walmart has meetings where they sing songs. they have catch-phrases that they expect you to learn and follow. they even have the occasional acronym. i know, because i worked there for two years. but they are not a cult, for god's sake. if the idea of working on commission scares you, then work somewhere else. pump gas, or bag groceries, or wash my car. but don't hold the system responsible because it didn't work for you.

Peter, this is what I can tell from what you wrote. Maybe not today - but some time - go over the list of cult symptoms I cut and pasted below. See how they apply to dsmax. Except for the chanting in different tongues example, I think you will find that they all apply.

Here is what I can tell about YOU from what you wrote.

1. Most blatantly, you display the classic polarized we-they mentality associated with cults that causes problems with the rest of society.
2. The discouragement of doubt and dissent.
3. The detailing of how people should think feel and act.

Here is the full list. Look over it with an objective mind when you are ready too.

1. The group is focused on a living charismatic leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.
2. The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
3. The group is preoccupied with making money.
4. Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
5. Mind-numbing techniques (for example: meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, debilitating work routines) are used to suppress doubts about the group or its leader(s).
6. The group's leadership dictates – sometimes in great detail – how members should think, act, and feel.
7. The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s), and members (for example: the leader is considered the Messiah or an avatar; the group and/or the leader has a special mission to save humanity).
8. The group has a polarized, "we-they" mentality that causes conflict with the wider society.
9. The group's leader is not accountable to any authorities (as are, for example, clergy with mainstream denominations).
10. The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify means (for example: collecting money for bogus charities) that members would have considered unethical before joining.
11. The group's leadership induces guilt feelings in members in order to control them.
12. Members' subservience to the group causes them to cut ties with
family, friends, and personal pre-group goals and interests.
13. Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group.
14. Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.

I know Peter. It is really hard to tell until you're out of it. But you've only been there a week and ALREADY you are saying, word for word, the classic cydcor and dsmax rebuttels. They don't change much, as there isn't much else to say.

"This company is not for everyone" Yes. This phrase is used to prove to their followers that they could care less whether or not you are there.(The indifference factor, I'm sure you know it.) This phrase further implies that 'they' (quitters, outsiders) can't handle the business, but 'we' (that's you, peter, as long as you don't quit) can handle it. I personally heard this phrase, at the very least, three times a day, six times a week, for three months. It's by far the most overused phrase in the business. It works.

Other familiar little put-downs, include variations on the "if you want three-day weekends go work at burger king, I'm sure they're hiring" or "wash my car" or " don't blame the company if you didn't make it." C'mon, tell me how YOU feel. It gets hard, doesn't it, with people loading your head with this garbage. So I don't blame you. I'm glad you're reading here, after only a week in. It shows you're willing to get some outside perspective. Keep coming here, listen to both sides.

There are not just two options in the world, as much as the dsmaxers like to imply. Do they make you feel like you can either be a dsmax owner OR end up with a lousy 9 to 5 job with no future? Honestly, watch the we-they stuff at work. It's too convenient, and a little dangerous. Good luck.

P.S. I had to 'call' my family all the time too. Because I never got to see them!

Peter, you are expressing your honest feelings and I respect that. However you must know, that in the corporate world, people have 2 day weekends and get paid fairly well. I just got out of university 3 years ago and I worked for DS-Max two years ago. I was making decent money at DS-Max, I worked there for 6 months. If I took my earnings and expanded to it one year, it would work out to $30 000 cdn for about 72 hours of work. Right now, I am a qualified chartered accountant and make over $70,000/yr for 36 hours of work per week.

So Peter my friend, don't think your only option is DS-Max or McDonalds or retail. There are many other options. If you truly want to get far in life, then you should consider working in the corporate world, maybe about 20-30 hours a week and take some college courses to further educate yourself. I believe this is your best route. Yes, I know it'll cost money, but it takes money to make money.

I just came accross this information on DS-Max and I have to say, there is truth to what everyone has to say, but the truth is in the eyes of the individual. I am the sales manager for one of the largest privitely held ERP software companys in the United States. I also do outside sales in the northern part of the U.S. and I make good money. With that said, I don't think I would be where I am today if it had not been for the experence and knowledge I got from working for DS-Max, AKA: Bell Communications Inc. I had the opportunity to work at other places at the time I started with DS-Max, but I chose them do to the opportunity they had to offer. Now working for just commisions was something I had never done before and it was a scary thought, but I gave it a shot. The first week I was there, I think I made $250 and the second I made $300. Now to me this was nothing, but I knew I was in training, and I would see some real money with time. Well, my paycheck grew week after week and it always seemed to increase. Withen working there 1-2 months, I was making over $800-$1000 a week and probably even more. Now this was starting to look good to me, but it was not the reason that I went to work for DS-Max in the first place. Remember, the opportunity that they offer looks really good. It almost sounds to good to be true. Well by the 5th month of being at the company and after sitting with the owners day after day and discussing how I was doing and what I still needed to accomplish, my opportunity had come. I accomplished the goals that had been set for me and moved into a position in the company I had been working for. At this point, DS-Max helped me open my own company in sales and marketing promotions. The company was called Global Interactive Inc., located in Oklahoma City, OK. It was everything I had work for and much more. I had 4-5 campaigns going and hired 15-20 people. The money was excellent, and I was very happy to see where I had come at only being 23 yrs of age. Owning my own business was a goal that I had prior to joining DS-Max. I would have started a company sooner or later in life, but they helped make that dream come true much sooner then expected. I only had my business for 1 yr, but the reasons that I closed it was because it was not exactly what I wanted to do. I really did not like dealing with all the responsibilities that an owner of a company comes across on a day to day basis. This is with any business that has employees, customers, projects, etc. I was really just not ready for it at that point of my life. Now that I am a little older (28), I am in the process of opening another company on my own. It is something that I am doing on the side of my real job, but it will bring in over $100K yr and I have no employees, or projects to worry about. All I can say is that without the knowledge and experience I learned from DS-Max, I would not be where I am today. If you truly want to take advantage of the opportunity they offer, take it from me it is well worth it. Just make sure that owning your own business is what you really want. Remember, you cannot spend all your days on the golf course. No mater what business you open, in order to be successful, you will need to spend most of your time working. Most people do not become rich by sitting on their butts. They put in the time and work hard every day. If owning your own business is not what you want to do, I would still suggest that everyone work for DS-Max and go through the training. It will better your knowledge and give you so much more experince then you will ever get working somewhere else. I know that I learned more about sales and management there then I would have learned in 5 yrs at another place. I have had nothing to do with DS-Max in over 5yrs and I know that things sound very shady when interviewing and even when working there, but trust me they are telling you the truth. It is up to you and how hard you work weather or not you will get there.

Good Luck,

peter i understand what your going through.you have doubts,questions that need to be answered but they will never be.for one this is not your goal.yes of course we all dream of wealth and retiring at a young age having a fancy car but is it all worth it.by the you retire at your young age all the money you worked for will go towards medical bills.i would say that the company is a cult because of the pep rituals that get you psych to work 11 hrs in the sun rain and snow trying to turn positve people into buyers.crap if you meet any one of your clients who felt that you really persuaded they will tell you that they never they used the product had no intentions to and felt like they was doing you a favor.the company always talks about the norms working a regular job with regular pay.there is more to life than material things .oh by the way time is not essential for management it is essential for life if this is how you wanna invest your time seeking money.when the richest man is the man with all kowledge for knowledge and determination is the to success not a fly by night job that makes you believe that they are your last hope ..get a education and a real job

knowledge is something no on can take from you

I find it very suspicious when people claim that DS-Max taught them something. The only thing I can see people learning is to never work for that type of company again.

Seriously, what do you "learn"? All your arrangements are made for you when you become an owner. All of your campaigns are arranged for you by a DS-Max firm. All of your financial and legal matters are also taken care of by DS-Max. The only responsibilities left to you are to sell worthless crap to people, and to hire others to do the same.

In reality, you can learn lots from any business or form of employment. But in DS-Max, what you learn the most, is how to be deceptive. Is this something you'd really be proud of?

First, I am not taking up for DS-Max, I am only letting you all know my experiance and what they told me was true. As for what I learned, well its hard to put everything into words. You learn so much that you are not aware of until you take a good step back and think about it. Everything from campaign management, territory management, the interviewing process, being a good speaker(Meetings), training other, & most of all sales. Becoming good in sales requires many things which DS-Max teaches you in the best way possible, hands on. You can read as many books as you like, but without actually going out in the field and talking with people, you will never gain the experiance and knowledge to what makes you a great salesperson. I am not sure what campaigns or products some of you were working on that you would call junk, but the companies that we represented where very well known and offered a great product. Ex: AT&T, Sprint, CSI (Card Service Intl.), All Major credit card companies, Direct TV, and others that are well known. The campaign that I worked on while in the field was AT&T, and I know for a fact how great it was to be part of that. I could tell you story after story of the businesses that I helped and how happy they where of the servies I provided, but I don't think it would help change some of your minds of how you feel about the company. Again that is not my intention, I am only letting you know my experiance. Also, my experiance in opening my company was not totaly handled through DS-Max, but they did have a lot to do with it. Now if you think that is a bad thing, well I just don't know what to tell you. If I would have tried opening it on my own, it would have been like the blind leading the blind. They help you get set up, then it is up to you on the way you run your business and what campaigns you will work on. If you would like to work with other companys that DS-Max does not currently work with, it is up to you to get informantion and meetings set up with DS-Max. They will start up new campaigns with other companys, but you have to bring it to their attention. I have received awards and letters from the Driectors and Managers at AT&T for the great work and dedication that my company did for them. In all reality, I think that about 80% of the people that work for DS-Max have a bad experiance with the company do to the negative attitude they have towards the company and wondering if they are telling you the truth. There is only about 20% that will see the positive things you can learn from working at DS-Max, and that 20% are the ones that will do good no matter if they stay with the company for years to come are leave, knowing that they learned a lot and taking that knowledge and experiance with them in life. Good Luck to all.

I hate to upset you all but my fiancee is an owner in cydcor and he is only 23, and an ex marine! he makes $12000 a month on OVERRIDES thats how they make there money! dipshits! you people are just angry because you could never make it, or are to close minded to see past your own nose! you go ahead and live your poor pathetic 9 to 5 lives paycheck to paycheck! ill be in cancun..all expenses paid, thanx to cydcor!!! biatchs!!!!

There's one thing I do believe about your story and that is that you are involved with B.S. Max or one of their affiliates. The reason I believe you is because your spelling and grammer is about as illiterate as anyone I've seen working there.

Of course I see that you failed to mention how much of this supposed $12,000.00 he is ripped out of for his expenses. I'm also glad to hear that you think this great trip they're sending you on is all expense paid because here's a direct quote from an owner who just left the business recently, "For everyone that is still in the company and thinks that it's FREE to go on the owner’s weekend, think again. For my wife and I to go to Can Cun for three days with BS Max would have cost $1200. That's not cheap for a FREE trip, huh? The tickets were $500 each and it cost $100 per person ($200 total) to go. That doesn't even count any extra stuff that we would buy. That’s just to get there. Going without DS max would have cost about $350~$500 for two nights and three days, with he entertainment bracelets. So, wonderful BS Max is paying about $150 of the trip. I don't like the fact that they promote it like there are paying for everything, and it's a free trip."
Anyway,have a nice time on your "free" trip. I hope you keep a close eye on your fiance at all times because the amount of sleeping around within this scam is over the top. Hopefully knowing that will keep you warm when he's supposedly working 15 hours a day~6 days a week or when he's sent on a retrain to a different area miles and miles away from you!

Very mature Jaki. Good to know this is the level of professionalism exhibited by those in and associated with the company.

Here's the thing everyone: it's a job for people with absolutely no experience. When any company promises great pay and promotions for Joe Schmoe off the street, it doesn't take too much brain power to realize that there's a catch. When a company gives precious few details about its operations not only in the interview, but even before you walk in the door: in its job ad and on its web site, you know there's a catch.

In this case, the catch is that it is a sales job. No matter what they call it, you'll be doing commissioned sales. And you have the opportunity to be shrewd about it before you go in. Look for details.

True marketing is about coming up with solutions and ideas that help a company's public image and sales at the same time. Refining the product, placement, price and promotion to suit the needs of the company, the customer and the marketplace.

What DS-Max and all its clones appear to be doing is sales. That works for some people and not for others. Those who go into it with rose-colored glasses thinking they're bound for fortune are bound to get disillusioned. Those who go into it ready to do sales may do very well indeed.

I had a day free so I went through the interview process with Westward Innovations in Phoenix. It was exactly the same thing. They say "no cubicles". Duh! They say "no telemarketing". Duh! Let's see, what's left? Oh yeah... direct sales. Yeah... not for me, no thanks.

Just a little common sense will help those who are not into it, avoid it. It's just too bad all prospective employees cannot read Jaki's response here so they would have a taste of the company's maturity level.

Regards....

Hi Jaki;

Don't you mean almost all paid. Your trip is still going to cost you fiancee owner 1200.00 for a three day trip....The funny thing is from Canada for me and my fiancee to go to cancun for three days at a 4star all inclusive resort exactly like the one you are going to on the owners weekend would cost about 1500 canadian. after doing the math. Lets see....ummmm. you are getting ripped off. Smoke and mirrors my dear, smoke and mirrors.....welcome to the life of a DS Max employee / family member. Oh yeah, btw....i don't fall into your dipshits category. EX Manager tired of all the deception. I am now a software developer making more than i did as an owner and hardly living paycheck to paycheck.

I can see that you are very high class by having words such as "Biatches" in your vocabulary. Your response speaks for itself as far as class goes. In matter of fact I would not even be suprised if you aren't even a women but instead a disgruntled owner pretending to be a woman. As far as being pathetic I believe your "husband" is the pathetic one. I work for The St. Louis Rams front office and work half the hours your "husband" does with twice the pay. More importantly I have an honest living where I don't lie, cheat, or take advantage of my employees. Don't be upset that you are ashamed of what you're husband does. He is a professional con artist who works for a pyramiding multi-level marketing scheme. So look yourself in the mirror and maybe you will see who really is pathetic and who really should be ashamed. The class level you show and the unprofessionalism makes me sick to my stomach. Your husband is nothing but a street hustling thug like you who has no class and probably no education or degree. The way you're husband makes money is almost like a trafficker but atleast trafficker's tell the dealers what they are getting into. LOL have fun in Cancun in september because thats the only vacation time he gets! LOL!

You want to make your fiance look good and this is how you act on a public forum? You have no professionalism. Learn to speak and write.

Even if what you say is true - I don't see how you can sleep at night. Maybe you don't know. Keep reading this ripoffreport. Read all the entries. This system destroys the vast majority of those who get in it. Getting money from cydcor is just a peg or two above getting drug money.

Drug money, scam, cult, I could see how some people who are shy, not confident, ugly, overly convinced that a perfect world is what we live could have these views and reactions. I worked for Maxum Industries and Extreme Marketing for two and a half years, I was 18 when I started I am now 21.

My experience with the company was that hard working, motivated individuals who would like to have more in life than the average individual can be happy with the company. Granted there is a lot of smoke screens that are that are pulled but how many people would jump up and down to sell stuff door to door right off the bat.

I ran an office for 6mo at the age of 20, I made more money than 50% of the people that I talked to throughout the course of the day. To say that you are never going to make a lot of money doing anything else is not true, but to make alot of money doing anything takes belief in yourself the product and the company.

Currently I do not work there anymore I do a few things on my own, i never got ripped off, never saw anyone get ripped off. Most people cannot do what we/they can do but to get all butthurt over something that you couldn't achieve is your own problem so don't brainwash other people into being sour on what they can accomplish

So, I gave it my best effort to read your post Chase. I got a cup of coffee (it was early), I dimmed the lights, I got into the first few lines of it, but then a little butterfly...a cute little butterfly...flew by and that was far more interesting than the inane drivel that you pass off as a defense for Cydcor.

Do you even read the posts before you chime in? If you did, you'd notice that everyone and their fiancee uses the "it's not for everyone, only for the hard working" line of BS.

I'll have you know that your description of the disgruntled is completely baseless and not at all representative of the office that I watched fall apart in OC. I mean, how ugly could a group of 20-somethings be when you're recruiting them from Newport Beach and Laguna Nigel? How lazy can a group be when they pilot programs like the Danone Water campaign that forces you to see up to 200 businesses a day to make 3 sales and ring the bell. As a point of reference, I used to ring the gong on AT&T having only visited about 80 businesses a day.

Wake up, Chase. This company is contemptible at best and we as former employees have every right to be bitter about the time we spent there.

Sure you can gain experience from DS-Max. Is it worth it? If you were naive enough to invest time in it, of course it was. Its human nature to be optomistic, and reflect on the past with a positive light, espcially when "the positive" has been crammed down your throat.

Scott from Phoenix was on the money. "Marketing" isn't an afterthought. Marketing is not the method of knocking on someone's door and saying, "Hey, your neighbor just bought five of these (peices of garbage) and I have five left!" Marketing begins well before a product's existence.

Despite the claims, those in DSM, in whatever capacity, are an afterthought. You are, and always will be, a slight margin to your esteemed clients. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, if you can make the money to justify it. And if you are willing to bust your ass to be the .1% to actually make decent money motivating people to be the marginal sales force, then by all means, do it.

My brother started with one of the granton supplied businesses in spring of 2002. He was never a guy with the best people skills or the most popular guy in school, but he was a great athelete.

He went to college and ran track and, upon graduation, he interviewed at a number of companies - just looking to get his foot in the door. Then, magically it seemed, he was offered three positions in three days; all with ds max related offices (so he since found out). He chose an advertising office because, as he said, "I felt the most comfortable with the owner and my trainer." He also mentioned that one of the offices seemed almost 'shady'.

At first my brother made about $300-$500 a week and was working very long hours. Since he was told that for the first month or so this was to be expected, and he loved the people, he stuck with it.

For the first six months or so he definately had his fair share of ups and downs. More often than not though, I can remember thinking what wonders this odd job was doing for his confidence and self-esteem. However, I was still somewhat skeptical. He also had to learn how to balance his own budget (we lived together) since he wasn't used to being paid commission and being paid on a day to day basis. I could relate though, because when I first started waitressing I would spend my money as soon as I got it.

After about thirteen months he was promoted to assistant manager at a trainers meeting in front of hundreds of people including my parents, his high school track coach and his half supportive (at the time) sister (me). He got to speak about what got him his promotion. He spoke about the loyalty his team had, his personal growth and about learning how to be sincere and get people excited about the oppurtunity that had helped him so much. Not only did he shed tears during the speech, but I did as well. I couldn't believe that he had gained so much confidence.

Afterwards some of the 'bigshots', as well as my brother's mentor, came over and met me and my family and took us out to lunch. The thing that struck me was their heart, dedication and passion they all had for their businesses. He lost some of his team as an A.M. and had to go back in the field for five weeks or so and rebuild it.

Soon thereafter he opened up an office out West and is currently doing very well for himself. He still works hard but loves it. He puts in a ton of time with his people and cares about them tremendously. Our conversations often consist of how he can help others get better and eventually get them promoted as well.

As I stumbled upon these threads, I became really confused. I approached him and he was really open to talking about it. He said that, for alot of reasons, he liked that the pages existed. He related it back to when he originally interviewed for another company (the one he found 'shady') and explained to me that the essence of running your own businesses is that, in fact, it is yours. I deduce that some would run their business with more integrity, honesty and caring than others. Did anyone ever have a jerk as a coach or teacher?? It seems logical then that making blanket generalizations is not only slanderous but also ignorant.

Right??? Just because Giambi uses steroids, does that mean my boyfriend shouldn't continue with his dream of being a major league baseball player??? You tell me????

Just because some car salesman lie, does that mean we shouldn't buy cars?

The more I think about it the angrier I get.

It's a recruiting business - is that unique??? Most companies I interview for (I have a nursing degree)try to recuit me. They tell me everything that is so great about their facility. My brother, when trying to recruit, shows people the toughest, least sexy, part of what his company does. Isn't the goal of most sales teams to expand?? Does Lexus want to sell more cars or less??? Do they make their money by having more people on one showroom or by opening up more dealerships???

Is a sports team a cult??? The world champion Patriots seem to fit most of your descriptions of a cult - the way those poor unsuspecting recent college grads get plugged into a replacable system designed to achieve results and goals simliar to that of a business. Let's boycott football!!

I don't know what any other office, or what any other owner is like - nor am I pompous and arrogant enough to draw conclusions- but I know my brother works harder for his people than any boss or professor I've ever had. Does everyone makeit? It doesnt' appear so. I've seen alot of people come and go. Is that normal? I think so. When I started college there were 200 pre-med students. 11 of them graduated in four years and went to medical schools. Is it the programs fault, or the teachers fault?? Saying that would be pretty jaded, huh??

I have also read people say the system is designed to screw people and it is inherently flawed - thus providing support for backboneless arguments some of you playing God have decided is fact. The system, in my eyes, is, actually ,inherently quite fair. Performance based, no seniority; they give you a gameplan and checklist for what you need to achieve (my brother has given me an oppurtunity meeting). Sounds like the American dream. Work hard, get rewarded. Besides work hard for a while + quitting when times get tough don't get anyone anywhere in anything. Do they????

The business probably isn't perfect, but nothing is perfect. But it certainly, as a business plan, is rediculously fair. I can say with honesty that I thought my brother was crazy. He told me that his manager was more successful than I was, so he was going to listen to his manager. Some of you would say his 'brainwashed' into the horrible depths of being excited and business minded - I would say my brother was exhibiting common sense. He changed alot for the better and has more money in the bank now (at the ripe old age of 23) than my father ( who worked for forty years as a professional salaried salesman) ever had. So I say, all things being considered - Juice by him!!!!!

"ED" your in last response I noticed you said you were a sister of an owner? Next time you add a meaningless thread to a post to make Cydcor/Granton look like a "real" job I suggest you be more sneakie about it.

I have past experience of my ex manager and asst manager not only discussing but actually performing fake posts on this site to better their image...Your so called brother...getting promoted in front of hundreds??? HA more like 20...the small cult offices dont hold more then 30 people in it.

I have seen many posts by you, ed from NJ and I am surprised youa actually took time to come up with a creative posting...Nice comments, but i think the fact that it says ed from NJ, it ruined your creditibilty...People

It is a fact that thousands of new graduates get taken on a ride with cydcor..just look at the thousands of posts on Ripoff..By the way I DO KNOW WHAT I AM TALKINB ABOUT....I was with them for 9 months and went to many road trips, conferences and the other bull that goes along with it...Why i quit??

I woke up one day and decided to make a buck without lieing to others...i suggest you do the same, karma is a funny thing!

I actually used my boyfriend's account - sorry for the mystery. there probably is more than one ed in nj - - oh and the meeting he got promoted at was in washington d.c. and had a number of offices at it - there were easily three hundred people there. Moot point, and not the crux of my posting but, just so you know.

MY POINT IS THAT MAKING BLANKET GENERALIZATIONS MAKES PEOPLE LOOK LIKE REDICULUOS, BIGOTED, ILLOGICAL HUMAN BEINGS. Individuals are individuals, orginazations are organizations, and specific company's are just that. I respect your opinions, and have no doubt there probably are people who have been treated unfairly or lied to by the managers in any industry. I also think that staking individual claims is reasonable and logical. However, saying all presidents are bad because Nixon abused his power is quite odd, and incorrect in logical theory. That is slander.
How many people who are writing these threads have actually taken up their issues with the owners they are angry with???

I decided to write my post because I have seen my brother slandered on this website. I have seen specific situations be reported as fact when, in fact, I observed them as fiction. My brother immediately e-mailed the accuser and received no response. Seems cowardly to me. Where I'm from people get beat up for talking behind other people's backs without confronting them directly

Is it possible that some of the people that post on here embellish stories out of frustration? In school people always blame screwing up on somebody else - when relationships go awry because of infidelity doesn't the perpetuator often times blame the innocent victim???

When a kid quits a sports team, who do they blame???? - -- -or when a football team loses games who do they blame????
THE COACH!!! Is it always truly the coach's fault????

Get out. I spendt 16 months in Chicago after moving from Boston. I worked for Mark Kernan. He is a great guy but most of the people are being duped,. Seriously it was the biggest wast of my time I was stupid to have done it

You can draw all the parallels you like, but they just waste time.

If you feel your brother has been "slandered" then perhaps you should address some specific incidents, instead of simply comparing his plight with that of a US President.

As well, you may gain some credibility if you actually researched the company you speak so highly of. On second thought, there really is no research you could do - unlike, for example, the Patriots, Medical Schools, Lexus, US Presidents, steriod use in the MLB, etc. And although I disagree with you, I could never ask another human being to experience this "opportunity" as a career choice, let alone an exercise in due diligence.

Suffice it to say, for a relatively small and obscure company, DS-Max has certainly managed to offend a significant amount of distributors, clients, and customers. This is not due to chronic cases of misunderstanding, misplaced blame, or opportunistic slander. The company is frowned upon by those who have been involved with it at just about every level for a reason. You should try to be a little more open in your perception of what the business is, and not be so easily swayed by your brother's (supposedly) benign experience.

I appreciate the love and respect you have for your brother. However, I find it irresponsible for you to take it upon yourself to speak on his behalf to something you know very little about. I have explained the company and my experiences with it to numerous friends, relatives, etc. I would never expect, nor would I ever want, them to write something to anyone in any medium on my behalf without my consent. Reason being, it makes them look bad. It also makes me look bad. But, of paramount importance, it is a waste of time to those seeking objective information about a company.

I'm not trying to be condescending. I honestly wish the best for you and your brother. I just hope that in the future, if you feel compelled to post a response on here, that you would do so with facts.

I have to admit that post by Ed the girl was pretty clever and original, have you thought about creative writing. One thing that struck me as extremly odd was the fact that you are a nurse yet you use a sales tactic that I learned from DSMAX in my short time there. The story!!! Tell a story that your customer can relate too and then further emphasis the point with analogies that they can relate to such as Lexus, baseball and the other five hundred examples you threw out there. I hope you believe and sell your self on the idea because no one else is buying it.

I would like to thank this website and the people who contribute to it because it kept me from getting sucked into one of these scams.

Everything about the job "Work in the fashion industry, fashion merchandising and marketing!!!" seemed too good to be true. I was shocked to read all the other posts and see how similar they were to my experience, and I just went on the first interview. My interviewer spoke VERY quickly, and didn't seem interested in my responses at all. He thought I had no experience, so I told him I had worked in Italy marketing (for a legitmate) fashion designer for one year. He asked me NOTHING about what I did there, my responsibilites, projects I completed, he just said, "cool"

They tried to rope me in quick with coming in for the second interview the NEXT day, and said it would be a 8:45am-6:30pm day. FINALLY I needed to ask..."What will I be doing on a day-to-day basis?" he said I would see during the second interview.

He did stress "moving up" and "managing others" based on how much hard work I put in, but that can be true of a legitimate job too, slackers won't get promoted, so I was wary, but he was a very slick talker. He also mentioned something about it "Not being a traditional 9-5 job" That was very weird to me too since he never told me what I would be doing.

When I got the call for the second interview, the woman was very sweet, and called me hun. She congratulated me on "being among the few selected" (and while I am a smart and capable woman) I didn't feel they could know that based on the little time they spent with me...my first interview was about 6 minutes. She also told me to wear comfortable shoes.

There were many things that didn't feel right about the whole thing in my mind, and I felt like I was being scammed. I had graduated from University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign the week before and this was my first interview, so I thought maybe it was normal. Because I was uneasy I looked up "Victory Promotions" on google and found this board.

When I called to cancel my second interview/day of observation...the woman claimed that "Signature Concepts", or "Signature Marketing Concepts" (I think they are changing their name to trick new people since they old company names are getting bad reputations.) was NOT be connected with Victory Promotions. I looked this up, and the office where Signature Marketing Concepts is located is OWNED by Victory Promotions. What a liar.

Again, I wanted to post and thank everyone who had posted their horror stories about wasted time and lies. You are rightfully very upset about these scams, but I want you to know you helped someone else from becoming another victim.

I worked for one of these agencies in Knoxville, Tennessee for about four and a half months after it opened. The funny thing is that they try to make it all "Friend" oriented and make you feel like family. They go out drinking and partying almost every night. One girl for the first six weeks would say, "This is such a cult." And yet she is was still sucked in. The people there were great. But I talk to lots of people who still work there and ones who do not anymore. They all say the same thing. "It just wasn't like it was when we started. Things are so hard now. We never see our family." This job cause my fiance and I to have problems because we never got to see each other. But I was a fool.

I needed a job and I was so excited. "You are just the type of person we are looking for!" What?! No experience in this type of job and I am perfect for it? Of course, because I was naive. But it is stress ful and the people there only "pretend" they care about you until they get what they want from you and then they are through with you. I was there about three weeks after this company in Knoxville opened so I was there basically from the start. It started out as one thing and turned into another thing completely. The ones of us who left are "The Unmentionables" so to speak. If our name is brought up it is hushed up, pushed under the carpet, or end of discussion is said to anyone. They do not want us mentioned at all. It is nothing but a big party/boozefest. And you spend so much money that most of the time you do not have.

I helped in getting a guy promoted to assistant manager because that is what this is all about, a multi-level pyramid marketing scheme, and once that was done, he was done with me. He is now going to Orlando, FL because the woman who was over the office there had a nervous break-down.
So my advice beware! But hey, it's your life make your own mistakes! Just my piece of advice!

In her response, she states that they "took her and her family out to dinner" or was it lunch?

Anyway, the point is, in Cydcor, DSMax, etc, they don't spend their money on you.

When I worked for that hero Michael Sessions, the greatest human being to ever walk the Earth (just ask him and he'll tell you), he never spent a dime on us.

They would have contests to get the employees motivated, and the prize was, being able to smash shaving cream in someone's face. Not a $20 bonus or anything like that, because it would come out of King Michael's 6 figure paycheck and we certainly wouldn't want to see that happen.

So Ed (sister), in the future, while making up stories that are not true, make sure you have all the facts. The day Cydcor, DSMax, etc management spends one nickel on the slaves is a day when all of hell freezes over.

There is a reason why Cydcor has 100s of complaints about working there, but companies many times bigger like AT&T have next to none. Do you think nobody works for AT&T?

Check out the names of other big companies and see how many complaints there are. I'm thinking few because those that don't make it realize it's them, not the company. Unlike Cydcor, DSMax, etc where their misleading people leads to them quitting.

So which office do you run Ed (sister)? There's no doubt you are just here to make the company look good. Too bad 100 negatives aren't countered by 1 positive.

I have recently started dating someone in the business. He is in his mid 20's and probably the most motivated, determined, and aggressive person I have met since I have moved here.
He is currently a "leader" in his office, working his way to "building a team" and becoming an owner.

He is told on a daily basis by his supervisors that he has what is takes to be an owner and that if he gets his account rolling like he needs it to be, he can make $4000-$5000 a week!!! Right now, he is lucky to make $500 a week selling certificates. He does not have a college degree, so making $5000 a week seems crazy. I work for a major corporation in sales, with a college degree, and only make $950 a week.

I have never witnessed someone working so many hours and getting so little in return. I understand the concept that most business owners and entrepreneurs do not make a lot of money in their first few years, but practically every cent that he makes goes directly to his office owners. It is a pyramid scam!!

I hate to see someone that has this much heart and drive be taken advantage of. Do the owners tell everyone in the office this? Do they just tell them what they want to hear?

It kills me to see him work his butt off and then walk home with a few hundred dollars every week.

I do believe that some people in this business make it. I have met them, and it's for real. But what is the actual percentage of people that can build a team and become an owner??

I, for one, would never open my door to one of these people trying to sell a certificate or something like that. Give me a break. This is 2006, I don't open my doors to strangers.

I would just really like to know if he could be successful here, or if his superiors are just pumping him with words to get him to make them more money. I feel like for someone that is incredible in sales, he should be using his talents elsewhere instead of wasting his time there.

Lastly, who takes road trips and does not get their expenses paid for?? Driving 2 hours to a location, finding a hotel on your own, paying for your own food and mileage?? That is total BS.
No company works like that. Then they call you every hour to find out what you are doing, if you are with "your team," etc.. etc.. They CONTROL YOUR LIFE!!

Please help.. any words of wisdom or advice would be greatly appreciated. I can only take seeing him get taken advantage of for so long.

Hello Allison,

I just wanted to say that even though it looks a little rough on the outside it really isn't that bad. My husband and I both work for the company and he getting ready to get promoted to the next phase of assistant management. I can't tell you that everyone gets promoted to assistant management or management. That wouldn't be realistic.

In any job the person who works the hardest gets the furthest. And they don't tell everyone that they will make it or that they think they have what it takes. If they tell you that they must really see something in you. They were always saying how my husband wouldn't make it because he was just some construction worker that was in the military and didn't have any business experience.

But I kept instilling the confidence that I have in him and he is almost at the next phase not even 1 year in the business. I am so proud of him. People read too much into things sometimes or they just don't have the drive and determination.

Take it for what it's worth not every business is run the same. You have great offices and not so great ones but one thing is for certain behind every great man is a great woman so just stick by him in the tough times as well as the rough. For instance some people talk about having to buy their own lunches or using their own car on their Day of "O". In our office that is a huge no no. We spring for lunch and you just get to hang out all day having fun talking to people.

I can understand how you wouldn't understand the whole roadtrip thing, but the way it works is. You have to remember these guys are running their own business from the ground floor up. So they are not an employee to the company. We usually take a couple of guys out so that costs are minimum. We try to have it at like 10 bucks a day for the hotel.

Try and keep it as cheap as possible. On some roadtrips I've even had all expenses paid. So there are a lot of perks. Just have to fight through the rough days. And just envision where you will be in a couple of years.

I was an employee of a Granton subsidiary in Leeds Uk before moving to London with Elite advertising, all part of the cobra umbrella. I cannot understand the bitterness from peoples reports i read on this site as i had the time of my life in the 18mths i spent with them.

If someone says you will be payed £5 per sign up and that is exactly what you get then how can you have any complaints??? and absolutely everyone tries to help you do as well as you can!! what more can you possibly want from your workmates.

In my opinion Ed speaks not on "behalf" of anyone but totally objectively about how she sees things and i totally agree with everything she says. People who haven't succeeded, moaning about the hours, moaning about managers etc etc, were these people handcuffed to someone who forced them on a train and wouldn't let them leave the job??.

Brainwashing i don't buy into but i will say i was more motivated then ever before, earned decent money, had some brilliant workmates,some came and left some stayed a while and some are still in after 7yrs and still in touch! so if you are convinced you were brainwashed which you weren't anyway because you knew the hours the pay etc within 3 days then turn it into a positive and stop moaning about it! put it down to experience.

When i left i nearly cried like an 8yr old girl leaving 1st school i loved it so much!!. I now run a central heating business with 10 staff and the reason i found this site is because i dug my 1999 juice wembley arena awards programe out and typed cobra into google, because i'm gonna leave my brother in charge of the business for a few months and go back knocking on a doors with some new mates,happiness!! :-)

That comes as such a shock and keep in mind that I'm being sarcastic here. The owner of the office that I used to work in-yes, sweetheart, WORK in since I received a paycheck most every week with taxes deducted- used to tell every new hire that I was going to "spearhead" Cydcor's expansion into the United Kingdom.

Until I did a little research into Cydcor, I was told that there weren't any offices outside of the United States and Canada. Wow, yet ANOTHER lie from a Cydcor company. I can assure all of you this-the only way that you make it owning a Cydcor office is by lying, cheating, and scamming.

Thank God AT&T had the foresight to followup on outsourced companies. It's not about working harder or smarter. It's about fast talking enough to confuse a customer. I was once downright told by my manager that I was giving too much information to customers when going over the contracts. I was supposed to distract them with other conversations and just have them sign.

After all, it's their responsibility to read what they are signing. Can't read? Oh well, that's your problem and you shouldn't be running a business. If what they are doing is such a great deal, then what's the big deal of going over a legal contract thoroughly. Nothing. It's just that then people start questioning and get nervous about signing a long contract and back out. When they do that, there goes the money out the window. They are all heartless liars, from the top down.

I used to own an office in the advertising division. Believe it or not Cydcor would be the division to be in. Advertising goes door to door with coupons, work from 10am to 11pm Monday through Friday and another 8 hours on Saturday. Cydcor at least they get paid by check (seems more legit) they also go business to business. The majority of owners that fail, fail in advertising.

Just like the unintelligent wife, Jaki said, "OVERIDES" she is right it is all about the overrides. Good luck getting enough dumb college kids to run around in snow, rain, 100 degree heat, hail, and tornado's to make a whole $10 for the day. 15 hours of work and you can't even afford to put the gas back in your car you wasted on driving out to the field. As an owner you have to convince these poor souls it's all worth it. It will all be worth it once you reach management. You'll start getting overrides (which by the way come out of MY pocket) Oh yeah Jaki for every override your hubby gets someone else has to PAY OUT OF THEIR POCKET TO HIM. Man was it bad when I had to pay my assistant manager more than I made because my 20 guys couldn't sell $30 golf card in the ghetto in 3 feet of snow.

Cydcor is a lot easier than advertising they get promoted faster, open offices faster and don't lose as many people as long as their campaigns don't suck. I made the mistake of believing the hype got sucked in owned my own office incorporated the whole bit and know what I have to take away from the whole 3 years in the biz??? $13,000 in debt to apartments in my name that I had to up and move to a new location (break lease...owe $$) Lent guys money so their cars wouldn't get repossessed, had merch stolen from me (you have to pay Granton for those stolen pieces of paper...hundreds of dollars for about $20 bucks worth of paper coupons THEY make)

I would advise anyone who wants to try this entry level marketing at least go Cydcor You have more of a chance at success but I doubt it for everyone manager that makes it 500 others don't. You have to be single, no car payment, living with your parents, and no bills to survive the first year.

Good luck to anyone who is in management my only words of advice are if you start falling into the red don't think Granton, Cydcor, or Innovage will save you they will just bring in another rookie with more money saved up to replace you until he depletes his funds then they do it again. For every 500 interviews 50 will actually start out of those 50, 10 will make it to leader and more than likely NONE of them will make it to management. I have trained over 1000 people out of our organization one (other than me) got promoted to assistant mgt until my OWNER failed...no help from him or Marks organization. Poor poor manager sorry you couldn't hack it even though we put you in a failing market with no product and no lister. Hmmm...hope this same scenario never happens to you!

People can make money in the biz, but isn't it strange how many managers just disappear? Office close almost as fast as they open. If you are a manager you know what I mean “everything's great …no no their partnering up because he is new and needs guidance. BS it's a blow out. Hey Cydcor what happened to the Philly market? Thank goodness Stephan saved it from certain disaster…I saw four different managers FAIL there. Maria, Steve, and two others that were in and out so quick their names escape me. Keep up the good lies…don't possineg, you might just neg out your guys. How are your morning meetings? A lion and a gazelle…the Vince Lombardi meeting, oh how even after two years you just don't forget them. GET OUT BEFORE THEY GET YOU!!!!

Watching out for everyone everywhere: Fear ads that say entry level marketing go look on monster don't even type a state everything in BOLD CAPS is them.

-Making more now than I ever did with Granton and I have a Benz now (company car) Boyfriend (manager at Northwestern Mut.) Paid vacations, Full benefits, and I never worry if I am going to make enough this month to cover my bills. Man life is much sweeter on the outside.

I worked for one of Granton Marketings offices for about two years. I am having problems with the hatred for the company that this world seems to have. Yes it is very difficult to make it (I was one that could not). Was I a fool (NO), was I brainwashed (NO), was it a cult (NO), did it suck (YES). My problem was and still is that I can out sell most people, but I have a problem-managing people (short fuse).

Now to the part that is hard to understand. Some have stated the lies that the company makes, yet fail to show how these lies are different from any other company. I am sorry AT&T has more disgruntle ex-employees than the population of most small countries (do more research). No to mention that these large companies are the tell more lies than to consumers than any that come out of granton marketing, let me rephrase that do not tell they just add to your bill with out permission (reason for the Attorney Generals Office).

More over direct marketing has been around for decades and has been very successful. Has anyone seen information on a little company called MARY K. The business plan for this company is taught at some of the most prestige's business schools in the world (interesting). Not to mention that My wife has a masters in marketing and has done more research on Granton Marketing (smart circle) than anyone can compete with (this for a marketing plan for my business) and loves the Idea. Did I mention that she works for a very prestigious marketing firm. The only fault in this form of marketing is control. You cannot control what an individual says out in the field.

To those that are upset about their individual failures with this company. I have worked for three large corporations that have lied to me to keep me working as long as they could. Because of the short fuse that I have it did not work in their favor the way they hoped. The point to all of this is that you cannot succeed in any business and or office if you do not enjoy what you are doing. The idea of posting comments to bash my former employers is insane. Almost as bad as posting to bash employees that I have fired over the years at every job I have held (illegal to do and so should this) and I have had thousands of bad employees. I could just imagine what they would post against me if they had a site like this. But because no one wants to hear anything bad about the likes of AT&T treating their employee's bad it does not happen.

So in closing, you may have had a bad experience with this form of work, you should not bash another's dreams or hopes just because you could not make it happen. You never know this could be the only chance that a person has to make something of themselves. They do not rip anyone off, they do not brain wash any worse than any other company, and as far as the cost I own two of my own businesses and guess who pays for everything. It is the dream that can be achieved and yes it is only for a few, but those few are very successful at it and will continue to be for years to come no matter how much bashing you do, so to you bash away and continue to be miserable about your own failures.

These all sound very similar to a company I worked for in Raleigh, it was called Acmepeco. Short for Acme Perfume Company. Took me a long time to draw the conclusion. They were a under a larger company called Sentura Creations. The whole philosophy was the same. You know a company is shady when they have to sell themselves to you, instead of you selling yourself to them. That is what an interview is, your sales pitch to get a job. There are legit companies that go door to door and go office to office to sell things. The legit companies usually have standards. Dress Code, our manager didn't care what we wore so long as we showed up. Information, legit companies want a fast sells pitch, but when questioned they usally have an answer.

Follow Up, legit salesman have cards so that customers can contact them with questions and concerns. This is how a salesman gets repeat sales. Which will account for half of all of a legit salesmens sales. These companies set you up to fail. They do not give you all the tools.
I have also been a beverage salesmen and a car salesman. This company helped me get my first sales job because I put it on my resume and greatly improvised on my experince. ( I was taught to lie to people).While I was there I was pressured to sell a certian quota to be a manager. Every time I reached quota, I would interview for a day and then back in the field. I never got any cut for my interviews, when I interviewed I lost money. All I had to do was sell more to get another promotion, (by the way the 50 mile raduis around these offices want nothing to do with you, they see you coming, they know who you are, and they only shake their heads as they tell you NO before you can open your mouth.) I was so deep in the dream and my sales were slipping as I spent more time interviewing (for nothing), that I started buying my own products to boost my sales numbers. I lost a lot of money. I could keep going on.

I am not bitter at the company, because they work exactly as they were designed to. I just want people to be objective, the products have changed, the names have changed. This was 10 years ago. But the buisness plan has not.I am only dissappointed in myself for allowing this to happen to me.At the same time I am glad it did because I was able to keep my sister from making the same mistake.

cathy. You are a liar and you have obviously been brain washed. now ill break it all down for you. except in my case i was an "in store" person selling bellsouth products to cingular customers. I feel really sorry for you door to door people because I used to bring in as many apps as you whole offices did all day. So I especially feel your pain.

I will go on posting this rebuttle to every rebuttle that says cydcor is GREAT AND WONDERFUL and how that these people just "didnt make it" since i spent a lot of time to write it and break everything down to lamens terms. Every office works the same so here we go..

First let me state that the office does state there is only a 2% chance you will make it to management. This is very true because these people that you say "didnt make it" in relaity did. They made it the hell out of that company and they are the lucky ones. THey work you hard and they do not let you get a break at all. They lie to you to get you to start and once your in, its REALLY hard to get out.

here is a e-mail that i send to Jobs.com about the company I worked for

"I am just contacting to you let you know about a fraudulent Ads on your website placed by Fourtune 5 Marketing. I was lead to belive this this was a ligitamite company based on their ad's on your website and In reality the company was nothing like their ads suggested.

The things I'm telling you did not get told to me until AFTER I was hired. Everything they say in their ads they use to get you to join the company.

For starters

"Fortune 5 Marketing is an industry leading Marketing & Advertising firm representing a variety of Fortune 500 clients in the areas of Retail, Communications Companies, Financial Institutions, Dot.com industry leaders, Internet service providers and more. We execute promotions within the Jacksonville area working with new & existing customers to expand our client's customer base."

They do not represent "a variety of fourtune 500 clients" in fact they only represent two. That is Bellsouth and Direct T.V. The people who represent the clients is actually their mother company Cydcor. In fact they even mention on their ads that they '"Fortune 5 Marketing, Inc. is a premiere, privately owned and operated sales and marketing firm based in Jacksonville, Florida." They are governed by Cydcor.

Second " Our new and unique form of marketing is consultative and requires excellent people skills. However, we do not do any form of door-to-door sales, cold calling or telemarketing." "Our forms of marketing are direct, personal and face-to face, but guess what, the customers come to us. Sound different?
"

What we did was not any kind of "consulting" work. The interview process lead me to belive that we would be in an office, confering with pospective customers. Not inside a Cingular store accosting customers as they tried to get out the door to sell them bellsouth products. We may have not been "cold calling" but we were definatly doing cold face to face sales. We were glorified solisitors.

Another thing they fail to mention in the interview/hiring process is two of the stores that you are sent two are at least an hour and a halfs drive away.

Here is another fraudulent statement they have made. "We expect a deep personal commitment from all of our employees and in turn reward them not only financially, but with advancement within the organization as well. Growth and compensation are based on personal performance.

This marketing firm was the basic pyramid scheme. You were not granted "rewards" at all with advancements. In fact, you got paid minimum wage no matter what you were within the company. You were in training, then you become a leader who had to train others, and when those others trained a certain amount of people you became an assistant manager, then maybe when your "second generation" trained a 'thrid generation" you became a Manager of your own company. You do get commision too. But you basically make the same the whole way through because you are constantly training someone else. Compensation was not offered at all. I did not even know you had to drive anywhere until my first day on the job. Gas was not compensated at all, neither was lunch. sometimes you were not even compensated for the time you worked. Most nights we did not leave until 8pm, but they would only pay us up to 7:30 pm. When i asked about their ad saying you were compensated, they told me to write it off on my taxes.

They also state that you get base pay AND commision. You do not. You get base pay if it does not EXCEED your commisions. If you do exceed your base pay (6.15 an hour 60 hours a week) you only get your commision. "

Okay, now that we see how they get you suckered in, lets go over EXACALLY what happens when you get "in the biz"

you're "paid training" consists of following a leader (second in command) around a day or two learning the ropes, if you were like me and closing peope the second day, too bad, your leader got all the money from the apps. Once you have proved yourself (you do this by teaching the four fives and the eights, the FIGS,the theroys on selling products and such) you get promoted to leader. This is when you are supposed to be in the big bucks. NOT!!!

If you are a leader now, , let's say that you work from 8am to 8pm (we'll just pretend your not there till 9 verifying LOA's okay?). That's 12 hours. That means that you work 72.00 hours a week. So 72 hours times the minimum wage, its 6.15 in my state equals $442.00 a week. Not too bad. (Yes I did the math right, overtime seems to be optional to these people)

But wait!!! You have a ?leaders meeting? that lasts from 8 to 8:30 that YOU DO NOT GET PAID FOR. So there goes 30 min a day out of your time (3 hours a week). Then there is this so called ?lunch hour? that you know you don't take, but you still don't get paid for, so there's an additional 6 MORE hours out of your paycheck. Then your manager makes you sign out at 7:30 PM every night even though the bell party doesn't begin till 7:45, no matter how late you stay, with no explanation why. So there is an additional 3 hours out of your 72 hard earned hours. So now you're left with 60 hours a week that they decide that they will pay you for. Still 369.00 not that bad as long as you don't have rent, car payments, a stomach?. ect.

So let's get on to the deductions! Let's say you spend $5.00 a day in gas. (30.00 a week) lets say you DO take that lunch break, and oops,you have a trainee that doesn't have any money. So we'll say, 10 dollars one day for you and your trainee, and 5 dollars for lunch rest of the days (35.00 a week) Still 309.00 not too bad.

There's more! How about Team night? Oh yes, the night you and your little minions go out to drink and party. And yes, its REQUIRED! SO let's just be modest and say you have a beer and dinner. That will usually cost you around 30 dollars, since it seems no one ever wants to meet at a fast food chain. Now you have 279.00 in your wallet. On top of team night, you also may have office night; (also required unless one wants to be considered the outcast of the office) this is a bi-weekly maybe monthly thing in most offices. This night your manager wants to go bowling. So, three games, shoes, some food, and a beer, well say you just blew 45 dollars. Now your paycheck is 234.00 dollars.

But let's say that you (gasp!!!) bypass your salary, (kind of hard to do when the thing that you sell the most only gets you $7.00 in commission) Lets say you make oh, $500.00 dollars. Breaking it down per hour based on the 72 hours you work is a whopping 6.94.
You can get more than that for fewer hours at your local fast food chain.

This is barley enough money to live off of!!!!!! But don't worry, you won't have time for anything else but work anyway.

Enough with pay, lets get to this ?we do not give false information to customers thing? You have to call in to someone to get the customers current bill information, and before I left I know they changed the systems. They do not tell you if this customer has any additional things on their bill such as inside wire maintenance, or Equipment maintenance, or any international long distance plans. They just let you know what regular plan they have and what regular long distance plan they have, and they also include taxes when they tell you what the person's phone bill is.

So let's say this person has, BPP, with the nickel plan. That's 25.99 without taxes or anything else. But lets say the person giving you the information forgot to mention that they have both maintenance plans (a 9.00) charge and that they also have a $5.00 international plan as well. So all of this with taxes is running them, oh, $80.00. So you decide to go for the big buckaroos and sign them up with the complete Choice unlimited plan. Its only 49.99 why wouldn't they want it it's cheaper and they don't have to pay 5 cents a min for long distance????

So you're taught to confront the customer just like this. ?Awesome, I just got your information and I can defiantly help you out today! What im going to do for you is put you on our new and updated plan, its exactly like your plan now but you get more features on your phone, and its only going to cost you 49.99 plus tax. Customer is very excited; you get the information and the signature. This is when you tell them they get long distance for free now, just to get them hyped up so you can rehash. So customer, who are you using for your internet? AOL! Ugh, look, since you're obviously a wonderful Bellsouth customer this is what im going to do for you today, I'm going to let you have DSL internet for only 32.99 a month. Oh, you'll think about it later? Im sorry but this promotion is only good for today. Well, you know what, since you are such a great Bellsouth customer, what I'll also do for you is throw in a $100 gift card just for trying it out. That will give you $75 dollars to cover your modem, and you'll have an extra $25 to spend on whatever. Okay? Great! Get customers info again. Yay for you. You just signed a customer up and made a little cash. But, you lead the customer think that he or she is getting free long distance, internet, and more on the phone for what they were paying before.

Now let's do more math shall we. The internet is 32.99 a month, plus an additional small connection fee every month, plus tax. In essence, the internet will end up costing them around $50.00 a month. Next the phone, the plan is 49.99 plus the maintance plans they did not tell you about so, that's 9 more dollars, plus the international plan they had, so that's 5 more dollars, plus the long distance tax, that's .99 cents then the federal tax that's 7.15 then the other taxes, about 15.00 more dollars. That means this customer will be paying about 87.13 JUST FOR THEIR PHONE LINE! In essence, they will be paying around 140 for the package that you lead them to believe would only be $80.00. If that is not manipulation, I do no know what is. You most defiantly ?hide? things and you most defiantly ?misrepresent information?

?How?? Do you say that you misrepresent? Well, there is a sheet that the customer has to sign with the prices of each individual package on it. The only ?tax? that is shown is the $7.15 tax. They train you to skirt around the tax issue and if the customer is insistent, to just tell them it may be a few more dollars. You also tell the customer that your only going to be there that day (hence the REAL meaning for having to switch stores everyday) You also tell them that deal ends that day as well, when you defiantly know the promotions for weeks at a time.

So before you go on here and try to lie to the public, remember there are many many many of us that have worked under cydcor and know its schemes and we will call you out on it. Do not be deceived by the promises your manager gives you because as soon as one of those customers calls Bellsouth to complain because of YOU. You better believe that anyone who's taught you anything about skirting around customers questions will retract what they said to keep from getting fired with you. You better believe that the company you're working so hard to protect will be the first one to throw you under the bus if any complaints arise.

In Mississippi there is an outfit called "Encore Marketing." They do door to door solicitation and work the Cingular stores as well.

Do yourself a favor and avoid them like the plague. Their ads usually read "BellSouth and Encore are Hiring!"

All anyone will find working there is misery, poverty, and aggravation.

Hi, I'm new to the site and have been very interested in reading all of your posts. Like Paul from Bradford I worked in the UK for Cobra (the specific companies at the time being XS Marketing and Panic Corporation in London) in 1998 and 1999. I had an absolute blast for 2 years. To give a bit of background I had dropped out of uni and at at the grand age of 19 was looking for a job. No experience, etc. I appplied in London and without rehashing over known territory I had the interview, got the job, was told the opportunity etc. And I bought into it.

I eventually left because I got pregnant with my daughter. My boyfriend was also in the business and he stayed on for a bit longer and now has a job with CNN. I went back to uni got a degree then got did my law exams and now work for one of the top 10 law firms in London as a solicitor earning very good money thankyou very much.

My point is this. At every stage I knew what I was getting myself into. Although there was a deal of 'glossing over' some of the difficulties in achieving ownership we were always told that realistically not everyone makes it to ownership and in fact it is only a few people who reach their goals. Over the time I was there I saw people make and lose crews, be promoted to A.M (myself included) and then lose their teams. It didn't take a genius to work out that it wasn't all that easy. However in the 2 years I was there I was taken on a free (yes totally free) trip to Amsterdam, another one to Spain and two or three weekends away to places in the UK for Rising Star weekends. I stress again I paid for absolutely nothing.

I worked with Dom Kotarski a lot who was or is the VP for Holland and when I went to help open another office in Portsmouth I spoke to him daily and he was 100% supportive (the office was 4th generation for him so not exactly bringing him in any money). Is the system so different in the States? I never saw anyone in debt from working in the business in London and I worked in 3 offices and 3 divisions.

In my honest opinion if the owner is honest the system is not a scam. Its a problem if the owner is lying to try to retain their people and without putting too many cats among the pigeons, if you can't work out the truth of the opportunity and how hard it is to achieve, within a couple of months, then that says more about you than the system. I was 19 and I got it.

As I said maybe it all works a bit differently in the States but I think that working for Cobra in the UK built up my confidence skills and my ability to interact with people whoever they are and however difficult. A skill that that I use on a daily basis in my new profession.

Here is what is soo funny... when I posted my comment 3 years ago, I was a brainwashed and abused fool. My supposed "fiancee" took me on that "free" trip to cancun, where, since I thought everything was "free", I was broke the entire time because I had to pay for stuff I needed. I was also beaten by him, (literally!) in front of other employees, he was never repremanded!! instead I was moved to another "company" as a administrative assistant, Where I was verbally abused, sexually harassed and then fired for not having sex with the owner! I went to report them and nothing was done!

Now that Im out of that situation I see things in a much clearer light. The company is not only a scam and a fraud, but they are most certainly a dangerouse cult. I was forced to live with my "fiance" and his ENTIRE company in a very small 2 bedroom apartment, and when I was sent away I was luckily offered a place to live with another administrative assistant who I am still friends with today, because she helped me get out of there.

My comments were very immature and stupid... and completely classless... I defended a company that made me homeless and lose custody of my 1 yr. old son. (I have him now)

I know people will reply with "you made yourself homeless" but I didnt. This company will make you turn your back on your family and friends just because they question it! then they make you think that they are your family and you move in with them, then when you start to question them, they turn you out on the street to make room for the next brainwashed twentysomething to come!

owners such as Jaime Hep of TAG marketing, who is good looking and charismatic and can talk a huge game and make you feel like his best friend when you talk to him, should be ashamed of themselves! and that goes for STEVEN REACH, and ol JOHNNY of JSTAR adv. fame! im so not afraid to mention the names of the people who condoned the physical, emotional, and sexual abuse that they put me through! and for those who question this company... GOOD! THEY ARE SCAMMING CULTISTS!

run as far away as you can from any add that says "entry level management trainee" I know, I wrote those damned adds! Im sorry to those I may have hurt while working for the company!