Primerica Financial Services - Research of its financial products and Business Opportunity, Primerica shows total commitment to resolve all issues and misunderstandings, committed to serving clients & agents Rip-off Report investigates and finds most of what is posted is ridiculous like this title, Primerica Financial Services - Traveler's Insurance, chanting Amen, perhaps comparing Primerica to a cult *UPDATE: Rip-off Report Investigation examines the Company and its record of service to consumers and representatives

No Ripoff Report posted has accused Primerica of racism.

They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:

Their email: bondjedi@hotmail.com
Their name: Michael Angelo

Their relationship to the company: Consumer Suggestion

Rebuttal:
This rip-off report seems to be a case of "piling on". Primerica ripped you off because...they tried to recruit you?

Though unsavory some Primerica reps may seem, your comments about the "mixed variety of people" with "little or no education" makes you seem even more unsavory. No Ripoff Report posted has accused Primerica of racism. You, unfortunately, sound very bigoted.

Good luck with your "Instructional Design" career.

Response to College Education, Take a look, and Racism

This is in response to the rebuttals College Education, Take a look, and Racism.

I did not say that having a College Education made me better than any one else. It does enable me to be paid more in certain businesses and in those businesses one is paid according to educational background and experience. I did state that I did not wish to start at ground zero in salary or not be able to negotiate my worth.

Take a look's rebuttal .....Any company I have worked for has compensated as per salary daily rate for any training. Companies I have workded for have not asked me to bring friends to meetings or chastised me for not bringing friends to meetings. Furthermore, interviewers have always been able to provide answers to questions. Brochures about the company are given, etc. Yes, most company's are recruiting but most interview according to skills, experience, etc. listed on the resume. My background is technology, education and leadership. No where in the interview did any of my skills come to the front and discussed. There were no questions about what I do best in my expertise, or my weaknesses, or do I like what I do. I was basically told that I was in a dead end job and would never make enough money at it. No one asked what I did make. And, although it was mentioned that they help get people out of debt, the rest of the meetings and videos was all about how many people you need to recruit in order to become rich. I did not hear the philosophy of getting people out of debt as the focus.

To address the "racism" or "bigotry" ...there was no mention of ethnic groups and no intent; therefore, the accusation of my being racist is unfounded and reaching. I never accused Primerica of being racist, either. What I did state is If Primerica is allowing meetings to be conducted with chants of "Amens" and "put downs" of other jobs, then it is Primerica who needs to assess their bigotry and prejudice and lack of respect. For example, what if you had a Johovah Witness or Muslim among the group. Would not that be an insult and a valid show of disrepect to them? Any company who recruits a vast number of people must instill among all who represent the company the need to be "politically correct", wouldn't you agree? A large company represented by a mast number of individuals has to maintain the integrity, ethics and morals in all aspects of its structure. I did not witness that in the last meeting I attended. Keep in mind that the video was top people of Primerica and people from all over and the chanting was allowed and encouraged. Even the people in the audience of the meeting I was in were chanting. Sorry, but that is not acceptable in a non clergy setting. Rather than being so defensive with some of these rip off reports, you who represent Primerica should seriously listen to how you are preceived by some, stop taking it personally and firing back with immature remarks, and use it to your advantage to make change. Shooting the messenger is not always the best solution.

They will never admit that they are dishonest, misdleading and stretching the truth about their products.

Fran,

It is a shame that they prey on the less educated and young college students. It amazes me how many people believe them. I currently have a family member involved and wish I can do soemthing to help him realize the truth. I tried to explain things to him, but he is so well trained and brainwashed, he doesn't listen to a a word I have to say. Like all of the other people that argue how great the company, in actuality, they talk about how great Citigroup and/or Citicorp is not Primerica, because they know the reputation Primerica has and they can only bank on the reputation of Citicorp, anyway, he always has something to say and turns your comments or concerns around, like them all.
I really wish that the company can be put out of business, but I know that they won't unless no one will buy their products.
It will never end.

I sounded the alarm on this company nearly 20 years ago

Terri:

I sounded the alarm on this company nearly 20 years ago when friends of mine were involved (including family members of mine).

I posted on 10/18/2004 and not one of the big guys in the company have ever answered what I exposed.

Best of success to all legitimate industry people.

a relative will ruin or put a relative relationship in jeapardy to recruit or sell a product

I am not sure if anyone would have an intimate relationship to recruit someone, but I do know that a relative will ruin or put a relative relationship in jeapardy to recruit or sell a product. Is interesing to know if someone ever did.

It's a shame that most of these people, truly believe in the "Primerica Way".

My situation is that a relative came to my husband to sell us many different products, and unlike my husband, I all ready knew what was going to happen, and we have been fighting about it ever since. This has been going on for three months now. They thrive on the relationships that they have whether it is family or friends. Like you said, they ruin alot of relationships, because it's greed. Money is the root of ALL EVIL.

I too love this site, although, I really do wish that there is something else I can do about this situation. I feel like my hands are tied because they are so big. The little people don't have enough power to make a difference, and that is a huge shame.

Ponzi's original marketing scam remains firmly in place at Primerica

It's Januarary 2006, yet I felt like I was stuck in a time warp when I read the report at the top of this page (it was filed in 2001). Why? Because it mirrored my Primerica "interview" that took place earlier this afternoon *exactly* - detail for detail.

There is no possible way that this is coincidental - Primerica obviously has a very specific SOP (that's Standard Operating Procedure for those who don't know) modeled upon a the foundation of half-truths and obfuscation described by the lady who filed the initial report here.

Three things from my own "interview" (I have placed this word in parentheses as the interview is, in reality, a group presentation) that specifically stood out:

1. The Regional Vice President that spoke to us specifically mentioned that Primerica is not a Pyramid Scheme. If a company has to specifically spell that out for potential employees, there is a very good chance that said company is, in fact, exactly that thing which they claim not to be (more on this in a second).

2. The Regional Vice President told us that he was raking in the money yet, for some reason, he (and, for that matter, most of his colleagues) was wearing a suit at least one size too small for him with a *t-shirt* rather than a collared shirt underneath. A well off person can afford clothes that fit, in my experience.

3. The Regional Vice President very specifically demonized salary (read "guaranteed pay") as being an unfair tool of corporate America used to 'keep people down' and praised straight commission (read "income dependent entirely upon uncontrollable variables") as the only way to get paid.

Three HUGE red flags there. Anybody with common sense and business management experience can see them for exactly what they are - indicators of a deliberately deceptive, ethically questionable, and economically unsound business model.

Finally, on the "Primerica is not a Pyramid Scheme..." front - the reps who have posted here are correct. It technically isn't a Pyramid Scheme, but ONLY because it doesn't require recruits to pay for PHYSICAL PRODUCTS (the key defining feature of a Pyramid Scheme). That said, Primerica DOES require recruits to pay for their training and certifications. This is not illegal, but all Primerica has done is tip-toe through a legal loophole and swap out the physical merchandise of your textbook Ponzi scheme for a SERVICE.

The framework of Ponzi's original marketing scam remains firmly in place at Primerica - they've simply traded in the traditional postal coupons for a legal alternative (a service, as opposed to a good). Otherwise, the structure of the original Ponzi scheme (i.e., recruit others to pay the training fees to recruit others to pay the training fees to recruit others to pay the training fees, ad infinitum) remains firmly intact at Primerica.

I got my call, so glad for this report. Thank you!

I'm so glad for this report... woke up to a message last evening (I work midnights), and it was too late to call so I googled. Thank you to all posters! You saved me a bunch of time!

INTERESTING

I have read every rebuttal in regards to Primerica since this on started in 2002. I am just got started with the company and will check in 3 motnhs to see if it has been worth my $199. If not I will stop. Making money is important to me but not as much as helping people look at there finacial situation.

It is interesting to see the number of negative responses people have about this company, and I have not not seen those up front as of yet. The only thing that bothers me is not knowing if I can succeed without trying. So if I make the $199 back it will be a successful venture for me.

RipOff Report, I Owe You 8-10 Hours A Week

As with many people on this blog, I'm ashamed to admit that I almost fell victim to the Primerica scheme as well. About a week ago I received a rather strange message in my voicemail, describing a great opportunity in securities and funds management. I thought, "Well, that sounds interesting. I don't have a finance background, but I've always wanted to learn a little more about personal finance." The message asked for me to respond via phone and set up a meeting time with my recruiter. I was off work that day and didn't have class either, "might as well check it out," I figured. So I called back and set up an appointment. After doing so, a number of red flags started waving (figuratively) in my head.

First off, I had never been involved with any company soliciting me having I not previously soliciting them. I gave them the benefit of the doubt though, namely because my interests were peaked by what the recruiter had to say, and I thought she said PSS Inc instead of PFS Inc. Next, the recruiter asked for my current background. This was a little surprising considering; MY RESUME had come across HER desk. I'm no savant of content formatting with regards to resumes, but I was quite confident I included my background, both professionally and educationally, in all resumes I distribute, it's kind of a strange habit of mine to tell people my background that qualifies me for each job I apply for. Lastly, I'm currently enrolled in a very technical (as technical as it can be for a student of psychology) terminal psychology degree program, I have no experience in personal finance. Again though, what the hell did I have to lose by attending this meeting.

$199 Apparently

Anything negative I was thinking about Primerica before the meeting (if you can call it that), was only confirmed after the session commenced. "We help people get out of debt," "We can make you independently wealthy," "We can teach you the assets needed and set you up to own your own business," I heard.

(My Inner Monologue) Great, I can help people and learn a little about personal finance while making money at the same time. What's wrong with that? Wait a second, why did the guy in front of me just get up and leave. This sound too good to be true? 8-10 hours a week and $2000, maybe if I'm Allen Iverson. Okay, this is a sham. I can't believe I wasted my day off.

It didn't help that the recruiter even pointed out that it sounded too good to be true.

That was ten minutes into the meeting. You can imagine how the other 45 minutes went...Yawn.

After the meeting was over, the recruiters went around the room asking everyone, openly, what their backgrounds were in. The 7 other people in the room had distinguished backgrounds ranging from waiter to bar tender to unemployed. When I responded with "I'm a graduate student," it was like I had just told all of them that they had won the lottery. Everyone was just staring at me, hanging on my every word. It was actually kind of flattering, until my better judgment snapped me back to reality and reminded me that was applying for a job with these other distinguished representatives from the food service industry. I know what all you PC a-holes are probably saying out there, "What, so you think you're better than them/me because you have an education?" Well,...yeah. I'm not saying that everyone without an education is inherently stupid, but if there was a definitively sound way to quantify intelligence (as IQ score is debateable) I think you would find educated individuals to have significantly higher intelligence...as proven by an independent measures t-test. I somehow doubt the lifelong whopper flopper really has the critical thinking skills to offer constructive, sound, financial advise. I know--call me a pessimist, but I have thick skin.

That said, one of the halfwits, and I use that term generously in this guy's case, made an interesting point. "If this helps people so much, why don't you guys advertise," he asked. The educated response from the Regional Vice President, the one with the quality Primerica finance training was, "You know what happens when you advertise right? The cost of your product goes up to offset the advertising cost. We want to keep our product affordable for families." Now, I'm no financial analyst, but isn't advertising done to bring IN more people and thus offset and even profit from the initial advertising expense. Good to know these "trained" "average Joes" are potentially handling your money.

Needless to say, I'd had enough by this point. Thanks but no thanks. Now I'm just trying to figure out exactly how they came across my name. So if anyone happens to know the name of the company or parent company that supplies this information (probably Citigroup, but I have no financial holdings with Citigroup or any of it's subsidiaries) I'd gladly appreciate it if you would post it on this blog.

And lastly, in homage to RipOff Report and its loyal followers, I will now devote the 8-10 hours of wasted time I would have spent with Primerica each week, reading this sight instead.

Hugs and Kisses,

Personal Experience with Misleading Practices

I was recently contacted by a representative for Primerica about a management oppurtunity. I set up an interview under the understanding that the representative was hiring RVPs (Regional Vice Presidents) in order to open some new offices. In essence, I was told that I would be interviewing for a management position.

At the interview, the truth came out. The rep was NOT hiring RVPs, he was recruiting for his workforce with the oppurtunity to become an RVP. This is all well and good, but I would have preferred to know that ahead of time. This was the first instance of misleading practices.

I filled out an application that included a list of references. I didn't give this a second thought until I discovered that my references were not being used to check my character and qualifications; rather, the rep was calling them to set up more interviews. This was the second case of misleading practices.

Finally, I attended a so-called "training meeting." No mention was made of what the company did, how to run an office, what types of financial services would be best for certain people, investments that would be beneficial, or any type of information that would be useful to somebody starting out in a business. Rather, it was a motivational gathering. People were brought up to say how happy they were to have this opportunity, how they were looking forward to making boatloads of money, and how they knew that their hard work would pay off. Again, this is all well and good, but why didn't the rep tell me what this meeting was really for? This was the final case of misleading practices.

This company may provide good opportunities for people, but I have to question why they have to mislead people to get them involved. I, for one, would be much more comfortable knowing EXACTLY what I was getting into rather than finding that everything I attended was not what I had been led to believe.

I will have no further dealings with Primerica.

Primerica not a Ponzi scheme

Primerica isn't a Ponzi scheme but it is just as cynical. When good ol' A.L. Williams (the founder)initially put this thing together all he was doing was figuring out a way to move insurance. He saw that at that time the average life insurance salesman's career consisted of selling 6-7 policies to family and friends and then he disappears from the business. A.L. borrowed from Amway and came up with a technique in which he could get some undereducated rubes to sell their 6-7 policies and give him ALL the commission. In the process the rube was convinced he would soon be a millionairre after he recruited an army of rubes to go out and do the same thing for him.

He concocted the "evil whole life salesman" as a demon.....(every cult needs one), proceeded to put together a sales track about how evil insurance companies (they are evil and easy target) are out to ripoff poor old average Joe. Primerica (which at that time was named Massachussetts Life and Indemnity Company)then sold Average Joe the most high priced term insurance you have ever seen. If you think Primerica term is uncompetetive now you should have seen the shlock they were hustling in 1980.

To make a long story short they have evolved very little since then. The major difference is that they were bought by Citigroup so now instead of being the little guy against the huge insurance companies they say "we are the largest company in the world". Other than that, same ol' story 30 years later, rubes selling uncompetetive products to other rubes while they dream of sipping lava flows in Bora Bora.

I just received the same recruiting call.

They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:

Their email: abc@123.com
Their name: Voice of Reason

Their relationship to the company: Consumer Suggestion

Rebuttal:
I just received the same recruiting call. Thanks to this exchange of information and the very poor representation made by those of you claiming to be part of PFS, I saved myself a lot of time. I also learned a significant amount about PFS (Which by the way is NOT "THE LARGEST" IFS company...that's their parent comapany).

One point I would like to make to those of you involved in recruting for this company. It's one thing to misrepresent your product, which in fact you are doing when you're approach is MLM, it's another thing to be unable to recognize that that is what you're doing. That's the sad part, and perhaps why you are unable to obtain a straight forward job helping others
financialy.

I was contacted by Primerica. Based on the information I collected here, I will certainly not attend the interview.

Thank you for all of your responses.

I am a senior at UW-Whitewater. I have my resume posted at my university's secure Career Services website (run by eRecruiting.com). This is how I was contacted.

In the phone call, there were some quirks I noticed. Among them are:

My caller ID noted that it was from a cell phone with a different area code than it should have been. An employee working for a subsidiary of Citigroup certainly should have had a landline and an extention number to contact with, especially as this is during normal business hours.

She would not tell me any specific position that was open. She would not tell me a specific time frame that was open.

She wanted my resume to have 6 "character" references, which is a lot. I can't imagine needing more than three, and many companies I've interviewed with don't even care about them.

Albeit uneasy, I agreed to an interview. The interview was scheduled to be held on the first business day after I was contacted, which is certainly odd. For normal interviews, both sides need time to prepare -- the interviewer needs to clear a schedule and the interviewee needs to research the company and prepare for an interview.

Based on the information I collected here, I will certainly not attend the interview. I assure you that even if I didn't read about them here, I would have laughed and left after hearing about the $199 application fee.

Run as fast as you can from Primerica

First of all I would like to address the fact that whenever you post your resume to a public site whether it be Monster or even a college site, any and just about all companies like Primamerica will try to solicit you. They know you are looking for employment, however, they do want money from you. I know this because I have been approached by this company several times. I did go to one of their meetings and felt presured by them to hand over $200.00 for training. I asked why would I have to pay $200.00 to them and was told it was for training to obtain my license to sell insurance and to be licensed for the securities and exhange commission.

I told them that I am not interested since I was looking for a job to work and not have to invest into a company. I also told them if I wanted to do something like I would have signed up to sell Amway or Avon products since I would have to invest money with those companies.

My advice to anyone would be to run as fast as possible from this company because they are a pyramid selling type of company. After all, why would a job seeker want to pay for a job, that is why they are looking to make money in the first place and not spend what they don't have.

I will site all lawsuits in my major report for all of you naysayers.

They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:

Their email: TheFraudChick@aol.com
Their name: The Fraud Chick

Their relationship to the company: Consumer Suggestion

Rebuttal:
I'm having an internal debate, but I think this string of shill rebuttals has set my resolve. In the next few weeks I intend to post a report about Primerica. In this report I will tell you all the REAL STORY. I want everyone to know that I have NO personal involvement with Primerica. I have no animus towards them nor am I a shill--so I hope you will find it objective.

I think you all will be surprised as to what I've found, for example:

Primerica is a pyramid style marketing scheme. Understand I don't state it's illegal, but it's marketing style is a pyramid.

Citigroup has been sued many times for questionable ventures. Primerica is one that is *currently* in question. There is no lawsuit for Primerica--yet.

Citigroup has paid millions of dollars in fines for unethical acts and business ventures.

I will site all lawsuits in my major report for all of you naysayers. I only ask that shills not attack those who have questions about Primerica. Who are you to attack those who have been harmed? It's their lost money not yours, and if they want to warn others so they won't lose money then let them.

Don't bother shilling this. Save it for my report.

The Fraud Chick

Another problem i have with primerica is that citigroup, its parent is chiefly recognised as a bank, or financial institution.

They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:

Their email: sic_mp@yahoo.com
Their name: edward

Their relationship to the company: Owner

Rebuttal:
Primerica meeting smells like Amway

I sat in on a Primerica meeting recently and took some fascinating notes (actual numbers, not fantastic mystical possibly drug induced magic projected numbers) Number of times the word "oppertunity" mentioned - 18 "Fantastic", "dynamic" or "amazing" mentioned - 20 "financially independent" - 8
"missed oppertunity" - 14 "make your money work for you" - 4
number of times "how banks rip you off" demonstrated - 6
number of times the above used hard figures - 0 number of times catch phrases or buzz words ("live the dream", "make your
money work for you", "financially independent",etc...)used - 16

They used the tried-and-true method of 'pitch and toss', which is after 3-5 minutes a presenter passes it on to another presenter. They reiterated the idea that the job you are at is "based on the position and not the person", dehumanising the way your boss views you.

And what the hell is with the rule of 72? is it me or is this the same math used to say the bush tax cut would preserve the surplus?

Another problem i have with primerica is that citigroup, its parent is chiefly recognised as a bank, or financial institution. Primerica recruiters constantly berate banks but glorify citigroup's size and its internal capital as its gauge of growth potential. (basically biting the hand that feeds)

About Attained Education and Primerica; Also, Why Primerica Itself is a Valuable Part of Citigroup

Wow! This is one long thread. If you have time, search this page for these posts: Darrick's from Texas; Garret in Colorado; and Moraine in Ohio. I loved these posts and as they provide balance in this forum. The one post you may want to compare mine with is Chris' in Las Vegas.

OK

I can see where the report's originator is coming from. If a person has higher education, more training or whatever, they should get paid more money. This is a fair way for our society to structure itself.

However, the Primerica opportunity is for all adults, regardless of their background. This is good because the path to success is not working for most people. In their lives, maybe their family couldn't afford to send them to college. Maybe they want to start over but don't want to spend a hundred grand to do it. However, they are willing to invest just as much work if not more.

Maybe they reached a glass ceiling in their profession and are disillusioned that the promise of hard work is not working out. Maybe they graduated college and are finding the job market impenetrable. Maybe they are housewives who are divorced and feel it's too late to go back to school or who find that the money they are earning in their new job is just not enough
to take care of their children.

Maybe they are free-spirited go-getters who hate the idea a boss who thinks that just because they pay them a salary, that they can dictate their lives. Maybe they are so beaten down by such a boss or office politics that they are crying out for a change.

Maybe they are people who find themselves wading in a sea of detractors--family or friends or strangers who tell them they won't amount to anything--but who want to dream again and one day see the promise of land someways off.

Maybe they are people who earn 70 to 100 grand but find the life of success elusive because of poor self image or because they are drowning in debt or other vices. Maybe, maybe, they are people who, for love of family, are willing to do anything to make sure that their children or spouse or parents or siblings will have a decent life. What successful people in Primerica have found is that life for their family had been
incredible.

But let's talk about these facts. Primerica is a division of Citigroup, which is a titan if you compare it to any company, period. For some reason this matters to people.

Citigroup and it's subsidiaries are separate corporations that are responsible for all the crap they get themselves into. A sister company's trouble's has little effect on Primerica when it comes to the balance sheet.

Take the fines that Smith Barney had to pay out a few years ago. Primerica is fortunate enough offer investments from SB and has seen growth in its investment business in spite of SB's troubles. In spite of CitiFinancial's troubles with ID theft, Primerica's loan business is on the up and up.

But, instead of revenue, how about public opinion. Let's talk about the the millions of clients that trust Primerica. We've paid out life benefits that mean family surviving a breadwinner's death will not have to scrap for cash, ever. Not just because of the billions of dollars in death benefits we've paid out, but also because of education we provide that helps people make good decisions with their money. Primerica has provided long-term care insurance to families so that a tragedy resulting in indefinite disabilty did not end up causing a family to struggle trying to pay for care of a loved one.

For those who are not clients or who are disgruntled former reps or who are burned former clients: Primerica is a valuable company to Citigroup. Traveler's is no longer a part of citigroup. Primerica, a former umbrella company of Traveler's, is.

Primerica leads the life insurance industry in licensed reps. It leads the securities industry in licensed reps. It's affiliate bank is the only one that'll go on record saying it wants families to get rid of it's fefinance loan ASAP. The affiliate bank, by the way, is not a bank.

As it is with a life, we must always take the good with the bad. Believe me, there is enough good in Primerica to cover a multitude of sins. Don't tell me that you haven't gone to a franchised establishment where the space was clean and service was excellent, but haven't been to another where there was a snotty rep and and the service was not what you're used to. The same goes with Primerica.

Let's not go on with the blanket conclusions of Primerica that are based on isolated incidents. Let our experiences and opinons be instructive, but not law. For many people, this Primerica thing is working, and that's because they are, too.

I WAS SO CLOSE TO BEING SCAMMED, got home and did a search for Primerica and I found this site. If they were a good reputable company they say who and what they're about ...they'd be up front right from the start

I went to a job agency to look for work of course some job agencies charge you a fee but no big deal.You get better leads. So anyway went in on my second day of looking through their postings. Well apparently the RVP had just put in his ad. The lady that I go through to set appt for jobs told me about this job and she told me it sounded like something I would do. I ask her about details of it . She told me that the RVP said it was a job that I can make $15 - $ 19 a hr and they do all the training. Right off the bat I thought that was cool .

I did ask if their was any selling involved and the job agency lady said that there wasn't. Of course she is only going by the info Primeria is giving her . Anywho I called the guy up and had a talk with him ..everything sounded professional.There was questions I wanted to ask but me looking for a job I didn't want to be too hasty.

So he set up an interveiw. Went in ,it went off like any other job interview. At the end of the interview I was asked to give atleast 3 references. Me having friends all over I didn't have that info on me at the time . So I went home and then called the RVP with my references.Anyway he told me he would check out my references and give me a call back. Well he did the next day and asked me to come to a meeting Thursday nite and I'll get all my info I need.

Well went and didn't get what info I felt I needed . Like what will I be doin ..pay scale ..how long is training and is it paid training.

The RVP told me to come to the orientation Sat morning and everything would be disscussed. So I thought ok I'll give this company the benefit of my doubt.Mind ya that I held off looking for other places to apply for work cause I thought I had one.

Well got up and went. While I was sitting there my gut was talking to me but I didn't listen to it. After about 2 hrs of preaching. They actually started talking about what u would be doin. Well I had ?'s and my RVP told me I would do fine.

Went acros the street and got a money order.. When I left from there I felt not very good. The meeting kept replaying in my head and my gut was talking louder.

Later that night got home and did a search for Primerica and I found this site..boy did I feel cheated..I want a job that paid an hrly wage not a dang commission job..if I wanted that I would have went to college or been a car saleswoman..nothing against car salemans..we need them but not my preference.

Anyway I called the RVP guy back and got all my $199 back. I was ticked off cause this company isn't honest that they claim to be..if they were ,they wouldn't keep us in the dark til the last minute.

If they were a good reputable company they say who and what they're about ...they'd be up front right from the start ..not no wishy washy crap and go to meetings and the crap they say..to me I wasted a week of job hunting , my time ,and gas going to them preaching ceremonies. I did go into the job agency and report them. Cause they did tell them that a person would make $15-$19 an hr and there was NO SELLING. Well that turned out to be a LIE...I might not have a degree but the last time I heard that commission is based on if you sell anything. So online jobs sites that has your resume on file aren't the only place they go...they have hit the upscale job agencies.

Greetings from a UW-Whitewater graduate ..put my resume on Monster.com, after being downsized from my former place of employment. A few weeks later I received a phone call from a Primerica

I too was contacted by Primerica, though it was quite awhile ago. I had put my resume on Monster.com, after being downsized from my former place of employment. A few weeks later I received a phone call from a Primerica representative. He said my name was given to him as someone he should "definitely talk to". When I questioned who gave him my name, he refused to tell me, stating it was "confidential" (later I found out they most likely got my name off Monster). I also asked several questions about the position which were met only with "you have to come to the interview to find out." I tentatively scheduled an "interview", but was very skeptical about what I was getting into.

The next morning I spoke to a friend of mine about this experience. She gave me the scoop on what this company was REALLY about. Apparently a friend of hers was also contacted by Primerica, given vague answers about what the "job" entailed, and went to the meeting anyways. Needless to say, I didn't go to the "interview" after hearing what it was.

Since then I have began working on an MBA at another UW school (Which, by the way, my "J.O.B." is paying for), and I see Primerica flyers all over the place in various builidngs. Recruitment is a never-ending process, apparently.

As the original poster said, for some, Primerica may be their thing. But I for one question the credibility of any company that cannot be straightforward right from the get go.

Rebutting Jesse (Glenwood) you must have overlooked this

Jesse, while you were reading this entire thread, you must have overlooked this from the main page:

"Victim of a consumer Rip-off? Want justice? Rip-off Report™ is a worldwide consumer reporting Website & Publication, by consumers, for consumers, to file & document complaints about companies or individuals who ripoff consumers."

So shiller how are you helping the victims of Crimerica?

Quoting:

"However, the Primerica opportunity is for all adults, regardless of their background." In other words if you have a pulse.

Let's look at the "opportunity" more closely. Here are the facts:

(1) The average Primerican from over 100,000 agents makes less than $6,000 a year. This money
is before deducting chargebacks (estimated at 50%
based on policy cancellations) and business expenses. Also chargebacks can happen anytime, even after you leave the company (check your IBA contract).

(2) But it's not simply about the money. Everybody
knows you should treat the customer right. What Crimerica does is to sell an admittedly expensive
term policy which gives you no advantage over competitors. You should fix up your customer proper so that he/she can retire in financial comfort

(3) Many think that you still have an opportunity for the big money. It follows then that there'd be officers and executives of Crimerica who came up through the ranks starting out as agents. Let's see a list of 12 then who started out that way
(Crimerica has been around for 20 years, there should be a list that size by now). If that list doesn't exist, that says gobs about the so-called opportunity.

Jesse, why not make up a pamphlet based on the information I just put forth and distribute them at the meetings. It would surely liven up those meetings that you find so boring.

Obviously, you weren't having any luck with anything else

They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:

Their email: TrishMcD@aol.com
Their name: Patricia

Their relationship to the company: Owner

Rebuttal:
Well,there must be a reason why you were sitting in that chair. Obviously, you weren't having any luck with anything else "going on" in your life. If all you have to do is sit around knocking other companies, you need to get a life. At least us at Primerica have better things to do like helping people climb out of debt, and become financially independent. Has anywhere
you ever worked help make a difference, an impact on peoples lives? This world is in a hurt of trouble as far as people being in debt and not financially secure.....perhaps you could look at the "big picture", instead of worrying about people saying "Amen". ....By the way WE ARE the largest financial services company in the WORLD, we have over a trillion
in assets, does that sound like a cult to you???

Just to clear a few things up.

Jesse, while you were reading this entire thread, you must have overlooked this from the main page:

"Victim of a consumer Rip-off? Want justice? Rip-off Report™ is a worldwide consumer reporting Website & Publication, by consumers, for consumers, to file & document complaints about companies or individuals who ripoff consumers."

So shiller how are you helping the victims of Crimerica?

first off, that seems a little childish to me, but lets move forward.....

Quoting:

"However, the Primerica opportunity is for all adults, regardless of their background." In other words if you have a pulse.

Actually, its more for anyone who is interested in possibly looking at a different career provided they meet the criteria. Nothing works for EVERYONE. It was a general statement man. Even someone is allergic to sunlight....sheesh.

Let's look at the "opportunity" more closely. Here are the facts:

(1) The average Primerican from over 100,000 agents makes less than $6,000 a year. This money
is before deducting chargebacks (estimated at 50%
based on policy cancellations) [who's estimates???] and business expenses[such as? my expensive after 5 months have included gas and an occassional dinner with clients. maybe even the purchase of a new necktie or two. BTW, they're ALL TAX WRITE OFFS....] Also chargebacks can happen anytime, even after you leave the company (check your IBA contract).

(1a)The interesting thing is that MOST of our representitives are PART TIME. This is a great benefit to lots of our reps for various reasons (ie you may only make $6,000 your first year, you don't know enough to jump right in and become successful, you have bills that require you to work full time until your Primerica Income superceeds your full time earnings, it actually requires a measure of EFFORT and FAITH in yourself, etc.) Aside from that, ANY agent can get a charge back in ANY company. Does this make Primerica "the devil" because we have to operate under many of the same rules as you? lol, nice try.

(2) But it's not simply about the money. Everybody
knows you should treat the customer right. What Crimerica does is to sell an admittedly expensive
term policy which gives you no advantage over competitors. You should fix up your customer proper so that he/she can retire in financial comfort.

(2A)?..... Are you serious? Admittedly expensive Term Policy? lol. wow. ok. Show me ONE Whole life policy that has a lower or even equal premium to a Term policy written on a client at the same time with the same face ammount. You really have got to be kidding me. Primerica was founded on the Philosophy that for the vast majority of middle America "Buy term and invest the difference" is a far superior means of reaching their financial goals than any Cash Value Policy. Aside from that, show me 1 major consumer financial publication that says that buy term and invest the difference is NOT a better choice that a Cash Value policy in most cases. I'm sure that Kiplingers, Smart Money, Success, The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, And Money Magazine are ALL wrong because YOU say so. Feel free to google us.........lol....try again pal.....

(3) Many think that you still have an opportunity for the big money. It follows then that there'd be officers and executives of Crimerica who came up through the ranks starting out as agents. Let's see a list of 12 then who started out that way
(Crimerica has been around for 20 years, there should be a list that size by now). If that list doesn't exist, that says gobs about the so-called opportunity.

(3a)Well, I've personally only been in the business for about 5 months, but I can name about 9 multi-millionaires that I PERSONALLY know and that I can attest to having started out as reps. No, this isn't just something I read in a publication. These are facts that I found while talking to them, face to face.

Tom Aminikharazi -CA

George Vurdogo - CA

Joseph Mikolizi -CA
Hector La Marke - CA

Joseph Cross - CA

Dale Carnegie - CA
Dean Web - UT
Jeff Castolene
Jim Bealune - Canada
Daniel Alanzo - CA (featured on the cover of SUCCESS Magazine in an issue that was dedicated TOTALLY to Primerica. The July 2005 issue. How many issues have they dedicated TOTALLY to YOUR company Stu?......"0"? yeah... thought so....) Oooops. Looks like that's 10. I'll let you know when I meet 2 more.

Jesse, why not make up a pamphlet based on the information I just put forth and distribute them at the meetings. It would surely liven up those meetings that you find so boring.

Stuart - North Brunswick, New Jersey
(A very misinformed gentleman)

PFS Investments

rebuttal to last post by Stuart - I am in no way affiliated with Primerica. I am just offering my opinion.

Quoting: ""Victim of a consumer Rip-off? Want justice? Rip-off Report™ is a worldwide consumer reporting Website & Publication, by consumers, for consumers, to file & document complaints about companies or individuals who ripoff consumers."

How are they ripping off consumers?

This type of reasoning can be analogous to saying that Store A ripped me off because I later found out that I could have purchased it cheaper, or received better service from store B. Not every company is going to have the benefit of offering the number one product or service. However, there are a good number of companies which still do well even though they may be 2nd or 3rd best.

Quoting:
"So shiller how are you helping the victims of Crimerica? "

Are they in fact victims, or are they making themselves out to be victims? I think in most cases the later applies. I think if you actually sat down and really reasoned their story out, logically they would not be a victim. Just disgruntled over their experience. I don't know any company that does not have disgruntled people saying bad things about them.

"Quoting:
"However, the Primerica opportunity is for all adults, regardless of their background." In other words if you have a pulse."

The last I checked, a great number of business owners do not even have a college degree, and are making significantly more income than most people with college degrees. So yes, if you have a pulse, you are still qualified to build a company or organization. Don't ever let anyone tell you otherwise. A company or corporation will only pay you for the position. I'm not saying do not get a college education. Just don't rely on it making you anything over six figures, which truthfully most college graduates don't make. I used to be an engineer for 7 years, and was never paid what I felt I was worth. Also, I worked with phd's (poor hungry doctors) who barely broke six figures if that. How I know, I used to interview them for available positions in our department. Let's just say this. It did not take me long to decide to start my own business, and leave the corporate world in a heartbeat. I did catch alot of nay-sayers when doing so, but I'm glad I did it. My income at my Hobby Shop now puts all of the nay-sayers' incomes to shame. However, I still believe in jobs, they do provide some sort of secure income, and benefits. It is also fine for someone to feel content with a mediocre salary. To each his own. My explanation above only really applies to those looking for more income than what is usually available from a traditional job.

Quoting:
"Let's look at the "opportunity" more closely. Here are the facts:

(1) The average Primerican from over 100,000 agents makes less than $6,000 a year. This money
is before deducting chargebacks (estimated at 50%
based on policy cancellations) and business expenses. Also chargebacks can happen anytime, even after you leave the company (check your IBA contract)."

Regardless of the facts, everyone knows that building a true business is hard, and that not everyone can do it. You can apply the same scenario to many other traditional businesses. Let's take real estate for instance. My wife works in an office where a good number of the agents are having to hold another job to make ends meet. Only a handful of the agents in the office are atually top producers. Does this mean we should discourage people from getting into real estate?

Quoting:
"(2) But it's not simply about the money. Everybody
knows you should treat the customer right. What Crimerica does is to sell an admittedly expensive
term policy which gives you no advantage over competitors. You should fix up your customer proper so that he/she can retire in financial comfort"

Again, the same analogy that I mentioned above about store A and store B. The bottom line is Primerica offers a service which people are benefiting from, even though there may be other better policies available on the market. Analogy: There are still people shopping at Target even though they might find a better deal at Wal-Mart.

Quote:
"(3) Many think that you still have an opportunity for the big money. It follows then that there'd be officers and executives of Crimerica who came up through the ranks starting out as agents. Let's see a list of 12 then who started out that way
(Crimerica has been around for 20 years, there should be a list that size by now). If that list doesn't exist, that says gobs about the so-called opportunity."

Anaologous to working for a corporation. There are only a handful of the big money making executives, and upward mobility to their positions could be many, many years out, if the position even becomes available. Should we discourage someone from pursuing those positions? I think not. A true winner will work his way up.

If there is a fraction of a chance that someone can make it big in Primerica, then technically it is still an opportunity. Unless you can say that there is a 0% chance for someone to make it big, then you cannot discount this opportunity. The biggest hurdle to build any business is human nature itself. Some examples are laziness, lack of belief, procrastination, pessimism, etc. Focusing on all the negatives instead of the positives. In a way I'm glad that only a minute part of the population are able to build a business. That just means less competition for us business minded people.

Quote:
"Jesse, why not make up a pamphlet based on the information I just put forth and distribute them at the meetings. It would surely liven up those meetings that you find so boring."

That's funny, because most of the people who are building a business or organization, usually already know what they are up against. They know it's hard, yet they stick with it. That is why in the end they most likely won't be in the percentile that only makes the $6000 a year that you quoted. I'm sure most will agree, that all you need is a proven vehicle which works, no matter how hard it is, dedicate yourself to it, and you will eventually win. It is just a numbers game.

To close this rebuttal, I would like to say that a good number of my personal friends and acquaintances are self-employed, or business owners. I find that most business owners looked at the opportunity, and took it instead of focusing their energy on discounting it. I find that alot of stuff written on these internet forums, reports, blogs etc. are basically like a virtual public restroom wall. Alot of un-productive negative advice.

How about this as a bottom line: If it is a legal legitimate business, a vehicle for making income, very little risk, then why not? Why should you listen to someone who is not going to pay your bills.

Rebutting D (Victorville)

Quoting:

"first off, that seems a little childish to me, but lets move forward....." Something a shiller would say.

"Aside from that, ANY agent can get a charge back in ANY company." Howeever Crimerica appears to be the ONLY company that has no time period for charging you back, even when you leave the company.

"Are you serious? Admittedly expensive Term Policy? lol. wow. ok." Why act so surprised? This is based on Crimerica's own metamorphosis website (which was comparing their term policy against other term policies).

"Well, I've personally only been in the business for about 5 months, but I can name about 9 multi-millionaires that I PERSONALLY know and that I can attest to having started out as reps." Are these Crimerica reps? (one in particular, Dale Carnegie, didn't he write a book titled, "How To Win Friends & Influence People", did he ever work at Crimerica?)

So D from Victorville. I don't see titles next to the ten names you brought up. Which means I must issue the challenge again. Name 12 officers or executives from Crimerica who started off as agents.

D in Victorville says.. attempting to defend the indefensible 'Wow, show me a single whole life policy that has a lower premium than Primerica term

D in Victorville says in attempting to defend the indefensible 'Wow, show me a single whole life policy that has a lower premium than Primerica term". First of all, I'd like to counter by saying show me one Motorhome thats as low in price as my Dodge Neon.

The point is Primerica is expensive term. If you have convinced me a Dodge Neon is the best car for me own then don't charge me 20% more for that car than the Dodge Neon dealer up the street.

What I can do is tell you I can sell a 45 year old non-smoking woman a 30 year term policy that will return all her premiums at age 75 for $565 a year compared to $559 for straight 30 year term with primerica. What rate of return would you have to earn on that $6 a year difference to return $11,300 to her at age 75?

D in Victorville says the average primerica rep makes $500-6000 a year working part-time. Fine. What I am saying is that same rep could have earned twice that much in the same amount of hours selling term insurance and loans that are less expensive for the consumer.

As far as your list of millionairres you know "personally" that started out as reps.......GOLLY GEEE...what a coincidence. These are the same people that have full color pictures on primerica's website. In 5 months you've gotten to know them all personally????? WOW!!! You must be a real mingler.

Finally D in Victorville....I agree with primerica that term insurance is the best solution for MOST people. I've been in the biz for about 30 years and 90-95% of the policies I have sold are term. However, when I sell a term policy I go out and find the best term for that client. Each one has different features, like convertibility or Return of Premium riders or a health condition that limits the number of companies that will take them. I don't try to talk them into an overpriced term by telling them "MY COMPANY HAS BEEN ON A MAGAZINE COVER". By doing so I make more money than I would have at primerica and my client pays far less than he would have at primerica.

Scam... It really does seem like a scam, if they would call some one with out even a high school diploma.

Friday afternoon i got a phone call from primerica asking me to come in for a "meeting" with this person i was talking to on the phone, he told me i might want to come a bit early so his wife and he could show me around, this meeting was at 9 am, on a Saturdau, which seemed odd. When I told him i was 9 months pregnant and expecting any day now his response was "oh, well that dont discourage me at all." That seemed a bit odd, also, but he said I could work from home...

My husband had to be at work at 9 so i dropped him off early and got there about 8:30. When I got there I went in this nice building with these wealthy looking people standing around talking, I was greeted by a very cherry lady behind a desk and she asked who invited me and asked me to sighn in, I did, she told me would be there in a few miniutes, so i followed another lady back in to a small room where a group of a 15 people were go to all meet, let me remind you (I'll call him Mr.V) Mr. V told me to come early still wasn't there. The whole hour and 15 min my huge 9 month pregnant body sat in that small crowded room, I only meet Mr. V and his wife ONE time and i was never showed any thing, except that they wanted $199 for a FBI back ground check, licence and something else but i cant remember..I think it could have been for classes.

At the end of the meeting I was invited back and gave an application...that also seemed odd. No one ever asked about my education. The lady from the meeting had said that the work they do was so easy, an eighth grader could do it. I would really like to know why they called me out of the blue to come in...I know they didn't get my resume from a job posting web site simply because I didn't even finish high school, so I dont have a resume.

It really does seem like a scam, if they would call some one with out even a high school diploma.

But what is Primerica getting out of it, besides someone to sell their product. Is that what this "scam" is all about?

Primerica may be a lot of things, but it is NOT a rip-off.

Jay,
I read (and was amused by) your attempt to demonstrate that you can articulate arguments using logic. I was astounded that in various parts of this thread which you appear to have initiated, you admit ignorance of some of the basic structual components of Primerica, i.e., "what are advances and what are earns?"

Let me respond to some of your ranting by making an observation that others have already hinted at: You apparently have a vendetta against this company for some as yet unexpressed reason. Maybe you tried to work here and failed. Maybe a successful RVP stole your girlfriend. Maybe you are being paid by a competing insurance, investment or lending firm to assail PFS. Whatever the case, it is apparent that you have WAY too much time on your hands and your hatred of this firm is clear, even though the reasons behind that disdain are not.

Let me expose, for anyone who has taken the time to read all the way down to my missive, the underlying flaw in your "attempt" at logically disecting Primerica Financial Services. You rail against the total amount of money the company pays out to its field force (approx 611 million in 2005) by pointing out that all of that money is disproportionately paid to 5% or so of the top earners in the firm. That figure is not exactly accurate, but your point was that since PFS has 100K+ reps, the average being paid to the lowly Representatives is only about 5K each, which is a ridiculously small amount to be paid for their efforts.

What everyone who read your blather needs to understand is that about 85% of the PFS field force is part-time (by their own choice) and that the average part-timer spends about 13.5 hours PER MONTH (also their choice) working this business. If they were working PFS like a traditional employment position and devoting 40 hours+ per week to it, then your point would be absolutely valid. However, according to the Census Bureau, the average part-time position in the USA paid 8.02 per hour in 2005 and the average traditional part-time position involved just over 20 hours of work per week. Since you seem to appreciate math and economics, you will be able to compute that the average return on that investment of time is an income that translates to an extra $8,300.00 per year (rounded). Given that our Reps, on average, invest far less than half of that amount of time for about 64% of the compensation, I'd hardly say PFS is a rip-off.

No one in this company is encouraged or knowingly allowed to represent to anyone else that everyone who joins our firm will become an RVP. In fact, Primerica publicizes the fact that only 3-4% of all Representatives will ultimately qualify to become an RVP, although technically, any of them could. The firm knows that most people who join here, and who ultimately become licensed, will work part-time and will always be part-time. That is strictly the choice of those who plunk down their registration fee and decide to associate with PFS.

We also recognize that a significant number of people who join will quit within a relatively short period of time, without ever earning a dime. The exact same statements could be made, accurately, about the real estate industry, but you don't seem to have a problem with any of the firms in that area. You have a right to your opinion about PFS or any other topic, but if you insist on making those public, at least have the honor and decency not to speak out about things you admittedly have only marginal understanding about.

Response to Kitka's "Exploitation is a Rip-Off"

Skull Pilot, I must respectfully disagree with your logic. While few would disagree with you that it would be unfair for an upline trainer to "steal" a trainee's warm market and thus deprive them of hundreds of dollars in compensation, that is not what happens. If it did, this company would have imploded shortly after it was founded in 1977. It would have been hit with lawsuits from former Representatives, multiple State Attorneys General, the Federal Trade Commission, and countless others. Yet, that has not happened. The reason is that trainers take trainees out to a handful of people within their warm market because that is where the appointment is easiest to set and because it allows the trainee to see success and to see someone he/she cares about helped early on.

I have trained hundreds of new people, and I've never had anyone leave a training appointment and say, "What the H#$L did you just do to my friend/family?" In most cases, we helped those people replace a more expensive life insurance policy with a less expensive one that offered more coverage and thus, greater value. We helped people who thought they were doing the right thing by saving money at their local bank or credit union recognize that they were never going to amass any real wealth by doing that start investing in mutual funds. And, in some cases, we refinanced mortgages, paying off all credit cards and car payments, etc. and freeing up badly needed cash and teaching the clients how to pay off their new loan sooner so that they could be out of debt completely many years sooner. Just so you know, we also allowed the trainee to participate in those loan transactions, where they were essentially paid for observating what we did. If that is a rip-off, there are a number of readers of this thread who will be lining up to get in on that kind of an opportunity.

As for the replacement, RVPs lose their overrides on a person once he/she qualifies to be an RVP themselves. If it were not for replacement, RVPs would have no incentive (see Real Estate Brokers) to EVER develop and promote people to that position. The replacement policy is not perfect, but it is a realistic and accepted part of being promoted to RVP and its attendant benefits.

I don't want to sound critical of you personally, because I don't know you. However, I can and am targeting your logic because it just doesn't hold any water.

For anyone else who reads my note here, try to remember one thing that almost all of the negative commentary overlooks...PFS is not as has never offered an "employment" opportunity, i.e. job...to ANY Associate. PFS IS A BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY, NOT A JOB. People who criticize the company on this site, either on purpose or through ignorance, ignore that fact. OF COURSE it should raise a red flag if someone contacts you for a JOB and ignores your past experience or skill set. OF COURSE it should raise a red flag if you are asked to pay a fee to get a "job"...although I recently interviewed a security guard who had to pay almost $2,000 for his uniform, weapon and weapon certification just to land a job that is paying him $10.75 an hour. I have since learned that is a common practice for security guards.

Listen, I can understand why people get upset when they think they are being asked to interview for a "job" and find out that they are being encouraged to consider going into business for themselves instead. Some people are desperate for money and it is wrong to take advantage of someone like that when an opportunity is misrepresented as a job. In fact, this firm will terminate anyone who is caught doing that and there are regular compliance training meetings and bulletins that expressly prohibit people from even implying that what Primerica offers is traditional employment.

That said, if you are ever contacted by anyone from Primerica and invited to go in to see what they have to offer, I encourage you to go...unless you are totally happy doing what you are doing now. But know in advance what the company offers and what it does not. For the people who choose to affiliate with the firm, they have an opportunity to build a business. There will be no salary, no health benefits, and no paid sick days...at least not in the traditional sense. However, there WILL be the opportunity, starting on a part-time basis and with no real financial risk, to become your own boss, work your own hours, have others working with/for you without having to maintain huge inventories of products, payroll, and paying for things like unemployment insurance, etc.

If stacked against a job, Primerica would definitely come up short for someone who just wants a job. If you want to become an entrepreneur, however, few opportunities offer the benefits, the income potential and the personal rewards that come with knowing you have helped people in a very meaningful way.

The stupidity exhibited by some people who brag that they "saved themselves" from the torture, financial and physical abuse, fraud, rape and murder that they almost got sucked up into had they gone to a Primerica office to explore that opportunity make me almost want to yak. If you don't ever want to be a business person, then don't go to companies offering a business opportunity and expect them to offer you a job. If you do that, you have no one to blame save yourself for that ignorance.

Back to you Stuart

Quoting:

"first off, that seems a little childish to me, but lets move forward....." Something a shiller would say. ONCE AGAIN, VERY GROWN UP. THANKS FOR PROVING MY POINT BUDDY

"Aside from that, ANY agent can get a charge back in ANY company." Howeever Crimerica appears to be the ONLY company that has no time period for charging you back, even when you leave the company. REALLY NOW? SEEING AS HOW WE HAVE 56 PAY PERIODS PER MONTH, OUR PAY SCALE BREAKS DOWN A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT THAN THE AVERAGE COMPANY WICH YOU SEEM TO BE COMPARING US TO. ASIDE FROM THAT, IT DOES TAKE 7-10 DAYS FOR A CHARGEBACK TO PROCESS. AND THE CHARGE BACK COMES IN LINE WITH THE CANCELLATION OF THE POLICY. ARE THE PEOPLE IN PERSONELL SUPPOSED TO READ A CRYSTAL BALL AND PREDICT WHEN THE CUSTOMER WILL CHANGE THEIR POLICY? GOOD JOB STU. WELL THOUGHT OUT. CHECK YOUR FACTS AGAIN CAPTAIN....

"Are you serious? Admittedly expensive Term Policy? lol. wow. ok." Why act so surprised? This is based on Crimerica's own metamorphosis website (which was comparing their term policy against other term policies). FIRST AND FOREMOST, MY COMPARISON WAS BETWEEN TERM AND WHOLE LIFE. SECONDLY, I NEVER PROMISED THAT WE WERE THE CHEAPEST. NEITHER DID MY COMPANY. WE HAVE COMPETITIVE RATES AND OUTSTANDING CUSTOMER SERVICE. OUR AVERAGE CLAIM IS PAID WITHIN THE FIRST 10-15 DAYS. MOST COMPANYS TAKE 21-30. LOL. NICE TRY AGAIN. IF YOUR GOING TO REFUTE SOMETHING I SAID, MAKE SURE IT IS INFACT SOMETHING I SAID.

"Well, I've personally only been in the business for about 5 months, but I can name about 9 multi-millionaires that I PERSONALLY know and that I can attest to having started out as reps." Are these Crimerica reps? NO, THEY'RE PRIMERICA REPS. LOL.(one in particular, Dale Carnegie, didn't he write a book titled, "How To Win Friends & Influence People", did he ever work at Crimerica?)DON'T ASK MY WHY HIS PARENTS NAMED HIM THAT. FEEL FREE TO LOOK FOR HIS OFFICE. IT JUST SO HAPPENS I WENT TO HIGHSCHOOL WITH A GUY WHO HAPPENED TO BE NAMED MICHEAL JACKSON. THAT DOESN'T MEAN HE WAS THE KING OF POP AND LIVED ON NEVERLAND RANCH. YOU GOTTA DO BETTER THAN THAT STEWY BOY.....

So D from Victorville. I don't see titles next to the ten names you brought up. Which means I must issue the challenge again. Name 12 officers or executives from Crimerica who started off as agents. I LISTED THE PEOPLE I KNOW. THEY RANGE FROM RVP TO SNSD. IF YOU WANT, I'M SURE I CAN PRODUCE ALOT MORE THAN 12. ON THE OTHER HAND, SHOW ME A LIST OF 8 PEOPLE AT YOUR COMPANY THAT YOU HAVE PERSONALLY MET THAT ARE WORTH MORE THAN 2 MILLION. EVERY PERSON I NAMED HAS ATLEAST THAT MUCH. I DON'T FEEL A NEED TO TAKE IT BEYOND THAT.

And now for you Leroy...

D in Victorville says in attempting to defend the indefensible 'Wow, show me a single whole life policy that has a lower premium than Primerica term". First of all, I'd like to counter by saying show me one Motorhome thats as low in price as my Dodge Neon.? WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THE PRICE OF RICE IN CHINA? THE COMPARISON WAS BETWEEN WHOLE LIFE, WICH EVERY MAJOR FINANCIAL PUBLICATION HAS AGREED TO BE A RIPOFF, AND TERM, WICH IS GENERALLY THE BEST OPTION FOR THE VAST MAJORITY OF AMERICANS. NICE TRY AT GUN-DECKING "LEROY"

The point is Primerica is expensive term. If you have convinced me a Dodge Neon is the best car for me own then don't charge me 20% more for that car than the Dodge Neon dealer up the street. FIRST OFF, I'VE READ SOME OF YOUR OTHER MISINFORMED QUOTES. I'M ONLY REPLYING TO YOU TO INFORM YOU THAT I CAN ALREADY TELL HOW FAR OFF BASE YOU ARE FROM THE TRUTH. SECONDLY, IF WE'RE SO HEAVILY OVERPRICED, WHY DO WE STILL WRITE MORE POLICIES THAN ANY OTHER INSURANCE COMPANY? I GUESS SERVICE MEANS NOTHING. ASIDE FROM THAT, 20% IS INSANELY FAR FROM TRUE. ONCE AGAIN L, YOU'RE WRONG. BTW, SOMETIMES.........WE ARE CHEAPER...LOL......

What I can do is tell you I can sell a 45 year old non-smoking woman a 30 year term policy that will return all her premiums at age 75 for $565 a year compared to $559 for straight 30 year term with primerica. What rate of return would you have to earn on that $6 a year difference to return $11,300 to her at age 75? AND THAT'S ALL YOU'LL DO LEROY. SELL SOME INSURANCE AND LEAVE. AM I SUPPOSED TO BE IMPRESSED BY 11K? I,ON THE OTHER HAND, LOOK AT HER ENTIRE FINANCIAL POSITION AND COME UP WITH A DEFINED PLAN THAT WILL GET HER OUT OF DEBT, PAY OFF HER HOUSE, SEND HER KIDS TO COLLEGE, AND GET HER A HEALTHY RETIRMENT FUND FAR SOONER THAT THE AGE OF 75. BTW, WHAT WAS THE FACE AMMOUNT? 200K BY MY CALCULATIONS. WITH A FEW OTHER FIGURES I RAN WITH A TYPICAL SCENARIO, BY AGE 75 ON MY PLAN, SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN COMPLETELY OUT OF DEBT FOR 15 YEARS AND HAVE $732,331.24 TO RETIRE ON. NOW LEROY, IS THAT BETTER THAN $11,300??

D in Victorville says the average primerica rep makes $500-6000 a year working part-time. Fine. What I am saying is that same rep could have earned twice that much in the same amount of hours selling term insurance and loans that are less expensive for the consumer. WITH WHO'S COMPANY? ASIDE FROM THAT, THAT'S JUST INSURANCE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. LET'S NOT FORGET THAT WE ALSO DO HOME MORTGAGES AND SECURITIES. EITHER THAT SLIPPED YOUR MIND OR YOU DIDN'T KNOW, RIGHT? LOL. THANKS LEROY.....

As far as your list of millionairres you know "personally" that started out as reps.......GOLLY GEEE...what a coincidence. These are the same people that have full color pictures on primerica's website. In 5 months you've gotten to know them all personally????? WOW!!! You must be a real mingler. AS A MATTER OF FACT, I AM. WHEN YOUR COMPANY IS CONSTANTLY HELPING YOU IMPROVE BY INTRODUCING YOU TO THE PEOPLE THAT ARE IN THE POSITION YOU STRIVE TO REACH, YOU CAN BECOME A HECK OF A MINGLER TOO LEROY. BTW, IF YOU WERE A MULTI MILLION DOLLAR BUSINESS OWNER, AND YOUR COMPANY ACTUALLY GIVES YOU LITTERATURE ON THE BEST WAY TO PRAISE AND RECOGNIZE PEOPLE THAT DO WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO, HAVING YOUR PICTURE ON A COMPANY WEBSITE DOESN'T SEEM LIKE THAT BIG A DEAL........OH YEAH, WHERE'S YOUR PICTURE??? LOL

Finally D in Victorville....I agree with primerica that term insurance is the best solution for MOST people. FINNALY....LOL.. I've been in the biz for about 30 years and 90-95% of the policies I have sold are term. WOW, SO YOU'RE ONLY 5-10% HYPOCRIT. THAT BUILDS CREDIBILITY... However, when I sell a term policy I go out and find the best term for that client. ARE YOU A BROKER OR ANGENT? I'M AN AGENT FOR PRIMERICA, THUS I ONLY SELL THEIR PRODUCTS. DOESN'T MEAN I'LL SLIT MY WRISTS OR THREATEN TO KILL SOMEONE IF THEY HAVE A BETTER PRICE WITH THE PEOPLE THEY ARE CURRENTLY WITH. MOVING ON... Each one has different features, like convertibility WICH IS FOR WHOLE TO TERM or Return of Premium riders or a health condition that limits the number of companies that will take them. I don't try to talk them into an overpriced term by telling them "MY COMPANY HAS BEEN ON A MAGAZINE COVER". LET ME ASK YOU THIS. HAS YOUR COMPANY HAD AN ISSUE DEDICATED TO THEM? IF SO, WHAT DID THEY SAY IN SAID ARTICLE? AS A MATTER OF FACT, WHAT COMPANY DO YOU REPRESENT LEROY? I'D LOVE TO LOOK YOU UP AND COMPARE APPLES TO APPLES. YOU KNOW WHERE I STAND..... I CAN'T SAY THE SAME ABOUT YOU. THAT SEEMS A BIT CURIOUS TO ME. By doing so I make more money than I would have at primerica and my client pays far less than he would have at primerica. BEING AS THAT YOU HAVE YET TO DISCLOSE ANYTHING ABOUT YOUR COMPANY OTHER THAN THE "GHOST FIGURES" THAT YOUR POST FROM THE SHADOWS, FEEL FREE TO PROVE ME WRONG AND MAKE MY "INDEFENSIBLE" COMPANY EAT ITS OWN WORDS....

Leroy - SLINGING MUD FROM THE SHADOWS IN Tulare,

Exploitation is a rip off

I have to disagree with you Ron.

PFS has many flaws and if you add them all up, I think you can come to the conclusion that PFS can be called a rip off.

First, let's talk about the procedures a rep uses.

A rep will recruit an unlicensed person and then proceed to sell to everyone the new guy knows before the new guy is licensed. The new guy just got swindled out of at least 6-10 commission checks and possibly many more. Add to that the new unlicensed guy recruits someone and his up line sells as much as he can to all the new recruit's warm markets effectively freezing the original new recruit out of even more commissions. Did the new guy get ripped off since he supplied all the new clients for his up line and got paid nothing?

And then figure in that a new licensed rep starts out at a disgustingly low commission of 25% and you could argue that he is being exploited. If a new rep is direct to an RVP and the new guy gets his license and goes out and sells $2500 in commissionable premium (not all the premium collected is counted towards commissions) in his first month after he gets his license, he'll earn a whopping $625 while his up line earns $1875 for doing nothing. Now I don't have a problem with overrides, but the guy doing the work should get the lion's share of the commission check and the guy sitting on his ass should get less.

Did the new guy get ripped off? I think so.

Let's say the new guy is ready to get his RVP promotion. Now he has to give his best agent, sometime his best 2 agents to his upline as replacement. So this RVP gets 2 guys and all the agents under them to replace 1 guy. Who gets the better deal here and who got ripped off? PFS says that replacement id O.K. because after the sales team you built gets taken from you by your up line; you get to take other people's best agents away from them. That logic is twisted if you ask me. Let me steal from you so you can steal from everyone you promote.

Do we have to go into the products?

Further rebutting D (Victorville)

As a general comment, switching to allcaps doesn't impress me and is a sign of disrespect to the visitors to this website as you're shouting (and making it harder to read which hinders your message).

Calling me "STEWY BOY" is offensive to me and I recall being called that by a Debbie from California so you're probably the same person and very disrespectful at that.

Getting on to business, it's my understanding that a RVP isn't an officer nor an executive so once again I call for 12 executives or officers from Crimerica who started off as agents. If there isn't even one, then say so (I would also ask someone more knowledgeable than D what are the titles associated with being an officer or executive).

"I CAN PRODUCE ALOT MORE THAN 12." I'm sure you can assuming they're not officers nor executives. How many can you name that started as agents that moved to being officers or executives? Surely you can do better, can't you? (your grammar and spelling along with your manners needs work too).

Ron hasn't been with PFS to realize the truth yet

Ron, you say "I have trained hundreds of new people, and I've never had anyone leave a training appointment and say, "What the H#$L did you just do to my friend/family?" So, are you an RVP? NSD? What? If not, you sure have worked hard training a lot of people. They were probably mostly too lazy to work hard for the opportunity. I'm sure you're "on track" to make RVP soon. One thing you'll notice about Primerica "business owners" who defend the company is that they are never an RVP or above. By the time a person makes RVP they know the truth and can't defend it or they have found a way to justify the deception to themselves. But I don't blame you Ron. When we were "on track" to become RVP we would have defended the company as vehemently as you have. You'll either be one of the very,very,very few who make money or you'll get out in a couple of years when you can't afford to hang on long enough to make enough money to live on. Either way - good luck to you. If it's any consolation, hundreds of thousands of former Primerica agents have been brainwashed before you.

P.S - D in Victorville

I almost forgot about to address how you're going to show that woman how she could be out of debt in 15 years, have $732,000 for retirement and college paid for.

Amazing you were able to do all that considering you didn't know;

1.) her income
2.) how much in debt she had
3.) whether saving for college was a priority for her or not

This is so typical of a primerica agent. You all seem to know exactly what the client needs and wants before you've ever met them.

You completely ignored the fact she could buy term insurance so much cheaper elsewhere that she could have a return of premium rider for the same premium primerica was going to charge for straight term with no money coming back.

You completely ignored the fact that if you could have her out of debt in 15 years someone else could have her out in 14 years by not charging her as much in interest or points and fees on the loan.

You completely ignored the fact that anyone with a Series 6 license can sell exactly the same College 529 plans you can and can set up exactly the same asset allocation you do.

I don't belive in canned sales pitches or walking into an appointment knowing beforehand what the client needs. You're like a golfer that has only one club in his bag and thinks shooting 90 is OK because of it.

Questions for you

Alright, I recently started with the company and so far find it to be quite enjoyable. I am not here however to answer questions like how much money I make a year (and legally you really don't have that right to ask such a question).

I am in fact going to challenge those of you who call this company a scam and prove to me something, since you want us to be on the defensive I'm gonna put you on the defensive. I have FIVE major questions for you:

1.) You often say the company is a rip off, scam and a fraud. If this company is a fraud, why has it yet to be shut down? The company has been around for almost 30 years now, and I am sure lots of people have sent the US Government mail or phone calls saying it's a scam, yet the company still operates. How can this be, if the company is a fraud? Why are they allowed to continue to operate if they are scamming?

2.) When the company originally started in the late 1970s, other insurance companies in Georgia tried to get it shut down because this company was "exposing" what they were doing. However, the state government not only continued to allow Primerica to operate, they in fact PAST LAWS allowing Primerica to run more efficiently as a company with the term insurance. Again, if the company is a scam and fraudulent, why are they allowed to continue?

3.) How is Art Williams, who is one of the Forbes 500 richest men in the world, able to create a scam company and KEEP is operating after almost 30 years, without being shut down?

4.) CITIGROUP is the largest, I repeat, the largest, one more time here folks, the LARGEST company in the world. This company beats out General Electric, ExxonMobil, Microsoft, Wal-Mart, BP, Toyota...well you get the idea. Why would Citigroup not only buy, but continue to support a fraud company? Citigroup already has a financial firm (Citi Financial), why purchase ANOTHER financial company, and on top of that, a fraudulent financial company?

5.) The "cult" like activities. I have never once seen anyone say "Praise the Lord" or whatever. And in fact only TWO people have ever said "Amen" at a meetings I've attended. Both are also very, very religious, the kind of people who'd go to church and join a chorus group and would say "amen" after everything a preacher said that they agree with. The people working below them do not display cult like activities either. How are cult like activities happening in the company?

On top of that, I have worked at companies before that had WAY more illegal practices going on, or where managers were in a cult like activity. They would try to push employees to "go further" and "try harder" despite the fact the employee was getting not any extra money from it, but the manager was getting a bonus. My last job at Cracker Barrel had some intense, border line cult, activities where managers would get on the speaker system every 10 minutes saying "Try harder, lets make this a $1500 hour" or whatever, as if I would somehow get a piece of the $1500. When in fact, management would get an extra $10,000 to $15,000 bonuses per year, based on the hourly sales. I basically was being pushed by my managers to get them a bonus while I didn't get jack squat. However, at this company, if I try harder, I make more money, plain and simple.

Alot of people who hate this company are those who refuse to look around and see what they are doing. Are some of the things kind of iffy? Yeah, a little bit, like trying to get your friends in there to help "spread the word" to get sales. That is due to the company having zero advertisement, no television, no newspapers, etc. Sure you can buy advertisement in the paper if you want though.

In the end those of you who said it's a fraud refuse to just accept it is not a fraud, and won't look at how and why it can't be a fraud. Citigroup owns them, the government lets them operate, the founder is worth over $1.5 billion, and the lack of cult like activities.

Answering Scott = Its a brilliantly concieved marketing idea designed to sell overpriced products by exploiting individuals without much sophistication or experience as both the buyer and the seller.

Scott asks "How is it a scam"

Ans- it isn't. Its a brilliantly concieved marketing idea designed to sell overpriced products by exploiting individuals without much sophistication or experience as both the buyer and the seller. No one can deny it does that extremely well. Amway does the same thing.

2. Scott says 'When it started 30 years ago other companies in GEORGIA tried to shut it down".

Really Scott? 30 years ago the company was known as MASSACHUSSETTS Indemnity and Life Insurance Company (MILICO). It morphed into primerica after it got so much bad publicity when the State of California Department of Insurance had a "death penalty" hearing to decide whether A.L. Williams and Company and MILICO should be barred from transacting business within the state. They survived but as a direct result of the hearing legislation was introduced requiring a 52 hour classroom course of study before you can apply to take the life insurance test here. The myth about other georgia companies is just typical primerica BS. Its probably something your leisure suited RVP made up to impress the recruits.

3. Scott asks "If its a scam, how did A.L. Williams keep it going for 30 years".

To start with A.L. hasn't done it for 30 straight years. He had a sabbatical when he fled to the carribean for a few years while he had some legal issues.

A.L. was brilliant. At the time he saw that the average life insurance career consisted of selling 6-7 policies to a few famuily and friends and then quitting. He figured out a way to get all the commission off those few policies that virtually anyone can sell.

4. Scott asks "why would Citigroup, the biggest company in the world, support a fraud and a scam?"

Yes indeed Scott, why would they? However, skirting the law is apparently not a problem within the Citigroup corporate culture as they have paid out TWO BILLION DOLLARS in regulatory fines and class action lawsuits in the last few years regarding their ethics. Oh? Your RVP didn't tell you that? Your RVP didn't tell you in one breath how Citigroup is so ethical and then mention in another about how they were involved waist deep with Enron? Maybe he suffers shortness of breath.

5. Cult like activities.

Primericans are proud to talk about being on magazine covers. Maybe they don't like to mention
the TV magazine with the cameras present at a meetibg where the people were chanting "TRASH VALUE TRASH VALUE". I dunno myself. I've never been to one. I know I have encountered AL Williams/Primericans over the years and they all say the same things, spread the same distortions (like you have to borrow your own money)and tell me how they will be drinking lava flows in their hawaiian condos while I'm still selling policies.
The last gal that told me that now works at the Rite-Aid down the block

6. Scott says "Cracker Barrel was worse.

Okay, maybe it is. I've never heard of Cracker Barrel. Do they give people advice about finances? Does Cracker Barrel advise people to make mistakes that cost them 10s of $1000s of dollars over a lifetime? Does Cracketr barrel lead people to believe they should have 100% of their money in the stock market because it makes 12% a year? (it doesn't.) I don't know what Cracker barrel does. Sounds like maybe they sell crackers and cheese.

What I do know is if you're on some Jihad regarding insurance and mortgages and you target people with the least financial sophistication you owe it to them to NOT sell them overpriced products.

Finally Scott, primerica doesn't advertise on TV/radio/papers for a couple of reasons.

1.) They can't compete amongst a target audience that researches before they buy.

2.) The acquisition cost (cost to the company of selling a policy) of their life insurance policies is already 30% higher than most companies due to their bloated multi-level commission structure, (the consumer ends up bearing the brunt of this).

TV/radio/papers would add to that acquisition cost and not be cost effective among that audience. A.L. Williams figured out that rather than try to persuade someone to buy an overpriced product through mass media, it was much easieer and cost effective to have someone the potential client knows personally deliver the sales pitch. A.L. was brilliant in adapting the Amway system to financial services. In the meantime, his clients pay more for their term insurance and home loans than they should.

Lastly primericans, I ain't saying its not possible to make a ton of dough at primerica. You can. What I say, and can prove, is that if you sold the exact same amount of term life and loans to the exact same people, and recruited exactly the same amount of subagents beneath you then you would;
a. make lots more money for yourself
b.) save your clients lots of money
c.) allow your subagents to also make lots more moeny for themselves.

Both you and your clients are being exploited.

Rebutting Scott of Texas - Many PFS agents use mis-leading scripts to get the prospect to their office

For Scott in Texas,

You say nothing new. All this stuff is a repetition of what PFS agents' pickup at their Fast Start School, Builders Schools etc... It's the same old mantra. PFS is obviously legal that doesn't make it ethical. So let's take a look:

1) Many PFS agents use mis-leading scripts to get the prospect to their office. For example and I'm paraphrasing:

PFS AGENT: (does not matter the level) “Hello Mr. Dan , I'm a rep with Primerica (sometimes they omit this or use Citigroup) and I'm planning on opening 10 offices in the next 6 months and I came across your resume as someone who could manage these offices”. What Mr. Prospect doesn't know is that PFS agent has no office NOW and is hoping to have 10 offices. This deception is plain and simple. And yes I would call that fraud! You would probably call it a half-truth.

2) Telling people that they have a interview for a Job not a “business opportunity” and inviting them to a “group interview” when the person believed it would be one on one. This site is full of examples, read them sometime.
3) Using smoke & mirrors to lure the prospect into a high rate mortgage under the guise of bi-weekly or bi-monthly payments which they could easily do with their present mortgage company. The whole idea of the FNA is to sell life insurance, and loaded mutual funds, the rest is window dressing.
4) Giving the impression that the agent owns their own business when in fact PFS corporate owns the client, recruits and your purse strings(i.e. Chargeback control, product line, etc..)

In summary PFS is rampant with deception, half –truths and yes fraud. It is encouraged from PFS corporate who looks the other way down through the SNSD, NSDs, and RVPs simply by what is said at all these meetings. There is plenty of proof on this site, but you and other PFS apologist have chosen to ignore it because you're in a type of PFS wonderland. We've been there, done that, got the T-Shirt. We're not bitter, we're trying to keep others from falling into the trap and its working and this web-site is something you will have to deal with throughout your PFS career whatever the outcome. If I were you I would pay attention.

Regards,

For Ron, I said the up line exploits a new recruit.

You're off topic Ron,

I said the up line exploits a new recruit. And that is not logic, that recruiting and training scenario I described is an accurate description of the process. I don't understand how you say a trainer does not take a new guy's warm market. The fact is that a new guy's up line will take him out on as many appointments as possible before the new guy is licensed so the new guy makes no money and the trainer gets the commissions. Then even when the new guy gets licensed, he might not be allowed to “train” his new people because his RVP will say he needs to be a District Leader before he'll be allowed to train a new recruit so even there, the up line gets to collect commission and since the guy being trained isn't licensed yet the guy not allowed to train gets frozen out of an override as well.

As for replacement, an RVP does not lose an override on the agent he promotes to RVP. He collects a percentage override on the entire business of an RVP that he promotes. And not only that, he gets a percentage of all the RVPs his new RVP promotes. Those are called generational overrides. So the scenario is as a new rep, the RVP makes more on the business than the new guy does because starting commissions are so low, then upon promotion, the new guy has to give away his 2 best legs to his up line and then the up line gets generational overrides on the new RVPs business forever. How much is enough?

Why don't you let a new guy get licensed first? Then pay him a decent commission say 50% so he can at least make some money for selling a policy. Then a trainer can take him out to observe appointments that the trainer has set leaving his new guy's warm market alone until the new guy is licensed. But PFS doesn't do that; they start at low commissions so the up line makes more money than they do on a sale, they take a new guy's warm market and freeze him out of commissions that should be his, they take his best agents and rob him of future income and then they still get generational overrides on his business. If you put it that way, there's no incentive to join PFS at all.

Now let's address the “You're in business for yourself” line. That is a misrepresentation because the fine print of your contract with PFS says that your client's and the sales team you recruit belong to PFS and not to you. The company has the sole right to make decisions about your business and not you. You never really own your business if the company has the final says in all decisions and then there are the no contact clauses etc.

We can get into how the PFS one size fits all strategy is not a good choice and the nitty gritty of products in another thread

Rebutting Scott (Arlington)

Quoting:

"CITIGROUP is the largest, I repeat, the largest, one more time here folks, the LARGEST company in the world." I wouldn't brag about the association as Citigroup has been fined up the wazoo by the government who is still pursuing Citigroup in court (isn't Wal-Mart bigger anyways).

"On top of that, I have worked at companies before that had WAY more illegal practices going on, or where managers were in a cult like activity." The old saying, "Two wrongs don't make it right." applies here.

"You often say the company is a rip off, scam and a fraud. If this company is a fraud, why has it yet to be shut down?" Because selling of a product takes place, that's what keeps it borderline legal. A company doesn't have to technically break
the law to be considered a scam. However the law can be changed to recognize that Crimerica is a wolf in sheep's clothing.

"Alot of people who hate this company are those who refuse to look around and see what they are doing." Even Hitler did some good for Germany by building modern roads (which was later used for military purposes during WWII). So does the end justify the means? I don't think so.

Scott I only have one question for you. What would it take to convince you that Crimerica is a fraud?

For Debra and Skull Pilot

If you two would be so kind as to accept this missive as a joint response, I would appreciate that.

Debra, I am an RVP. I wish more people in the company could reach that point, but it is a comparatively small number that do. I suppose that is not much different than the percentage of traditional employees who ever climb to senior management positions in the corporate world, but there is a difference. At PFS, at least every Associate is afforded the opportunity to become an RVP. If they meet the production and growth requirements, they can ascend to that position regardless of their educational background, work experience, race, creed, color, sex or whether or not their own RVP likes them more or less than another Associate.

I feel your frustration. I wish I could make you feel differently. There are things about this company that frustrate me, also, but that has certainly been the case with every firm I have ever been associated with. On balance, however, I feel that this company has afforded me the opportunity to make a substantial amount of money while allowing me to control how much time I choose to devote to that effort.

Skull Pilot...
We seem to be arguing over comparatively minor points. You keep asking why Primerica doesn't do this or doesn't do that, because YOU think it would be better if we did things your way. I offer this comment with all the respect due you as a fellow commentator here...

Had you built a multi-million dollar company and accomplished all that Primerica has accomplished, I feel certain that our firm, and all the people who have ever been affiliated with it, would be more interested in your opinions. It is easy to render judgments about other people, companies, governments, beliefs, etc. However, prudent people have always measured how much weight to assign such opinions to the qualifications and position of those offering said opinions. That is not meant to be disrespectful to you or to your opinion, but merely to bring it into perspective.

Primerica is not a perfect company. Our products are not perfect products. Our distribution system may have its flaws. However, our position and our service that we provide to people who need it are undeniably superior to where most of those people were prior to meeting with one of our Representatives. Since we don't attempt to get anyone to change what they are doing unless what we can offer is demonstrably better for them, why would you demonize Primerica because there might be a less expensive term policy or a loan with a slightly lower interest rate out there? Even if that were the case, the people we serve don't understand insurance, investments and loans sufficiently well to avoid the traps that the products of traditional providers so often entail. We simply try to educate people that it is important to make the best financial decisions that can be made, as early as possible, to give them the best chance to have a bright future. Instead of assailing this company for its minor flaws, I think you would garner more respect if you simply acknowledged its noble mission and the efforts of the people who work here to help middle-income families.

I wish you (and Debra) the very best in whatever endeavors you have decided to pursue.

PFS gives superior service? ..every primerica policyholder I ever ran into had the same complaint

Please!

First of all every primerica policyholder I ever ran into had the same complaint...."he/she sold me this policy and I haven't heard a word from anyone since".

Secondly you cannot believe some of the things I've seen half-trained primerica people say and do. They just don't know any better, tell absolute lies, and believe the lies with their heart.

Here are just a few;

1. you have to borrow your own money out of a cash value policy.

2. Told a client of mine with a $10 million estate that he could avoid all estate taxes by naming 10 different beneficiaries in his will.
In truth is the IRS doesn't care how many beneficiaries you have when calculating the estate tax. Its based on the net value of the estate, not the number of beneficiaries or how the money is divided among the beneficairies.

3. On one of those confrontations where they ambush you at an appointment the PFS rep kept pointing to the maximum mortality table figures in the policy saying this was what the client was being charged for insurance. No matter how many times I told him the the REAL charges (currnet mortality) the client was being charged were listed on the statements, he ignored me. Finally I had to tell him if he made the same mistake again I'd file a complaint with the DOI against him.

4. Told a 63 year old client with a blood disorder to drop his policy and buy term with primerica, quoting him preferred rates. The agent was the client's son-in-law and knew he had the blood disorder.

5. Told a client he could save $85,000 with a simple interest loan from primerica. I didn't do loans then but I did an amortization table showing the real savings in interest was closer to $1,100.

6. Told a client with an estate tax problem to drop his Second-to-Die policy sold inside of an Irrevocable Life Insurance Trust. He told him to put the premium into mutual funds instead. The agent didn't know til I told him that the mutual funds would be added to his estate and taxed at 55% on his death on the entire amount of the fund value, not just the growth of the funds. The insurance inside the trust wouldn't be taxed at all.

7. Told a would-be recruit that he could deduct the cost of his clothes if he became a primerica rep.
<<<< In actuality you can only deduct the cost of uniforms and/or protective clothing unique to your occupation.

8. Told the entire AOL Insurance message board that primerica was the only company that had Terminal Illness Riders on policies, (dozens of companies do). When confronted switched to "primerica is the only one that doesn't charge extra for it" (none of them do).

I have a list of things about 2 pages long I've kept over the years but you get the drift. If you want this type of half-trained person primerica sends out to handle your family's financial future then be my guest. This type of person is the rule at primerica, not the exception.

Not minor flaws; Character flaws

I think it would be better if PFS reps were honest about the opportunity they offer. People are told,” This is your business.” But it is not, the company owns your business. But since it is only my opinion, it will never happen because PFS is a million dollar company and they won't change.

If you told people the day they filled out an IBA that after their efforts to recruit and build a team, the best 2 agents and all the people under them will be given to their up line a new guy might not think it's so hot.

If reps were actually trained on how the insurance products they trash work, they could do a better job “educating” the public. I have a client that was told by a PFS rep to cancel a CV policy he's had since he was a kid(long before I knew him). There was a substantial amount of cash in the policy because his grandparents gifted large amounts of premium but the PFS rep didn't understand that the distribution of that money was a taxable event and would have cost this guy thousands of dollars. This happens because PFS reps know nothing about insurance.

I've heard reps sell a SMART loan as a simple interest loan. It's not. And btw, a couple points higher interest rate will cost a client thousands if not tens of thousands more than a lower rate. But you say you are doing a noble thing by selling it to low income people? PFS term insurance costs much more and it's noble to sell it to people who would benefit from a lower premium policy since they could actually save more for retirement?

The comments in your last post illustrate a “Why should we change" attitude. PFS was designed in the 1970's and in 30 years it hasn't changed. That's the problem.

I don't think that selling products that are not competitive in the market by using untrained, unknowledgeable reps that have been recruited with the promise of a 6 figure income are minor flaws. I don't think that paying a rep a 25% commission and making more than he does on his efforts because I override him is a minor flaw. I think those things are outright wrong and should be changed. You offer an opportunity, but you exploit those looking for an opportunity in order to make higher commissions and overrides. You yourself lied when you said an RVP loses the override on an agent he promotes to RVP, but you just gloss over that fact like it doesn't matter.

You call these minor flaws, I call them character flaws.

Rebuttal to Skull Pilot

Comment #1:

"People are told, This is your business. But it is not, the company owns your business."
Response:
Actually, RVPs CAN qualify for CONTRACTUAL ownership of their businesses. Many, many of them have done so. Your point is that Primerica Reps are loosely told that they own their own business, and that is a misrepresentation. Technically, they don't own their business in the traditional sense, until they can qualify for the contractual award (see above). However, until that time, I'd argue that is a good thing. They don't have to pay any payroll, maintain inventories, rent office space, etc.

Comment #2:
"If you told people the day they filled out an IBA that after their efforts to recruit and build a team, the best 2 agents and all the people under them will be given to their up line a new guy might not think it's so hot."

Response:
First of all, not all RVPs take 2 replacement legs. Mine took one, and I take one. Secondly, I was told about replacement from the onset, and it did not deter me because the rationale behind that policy was clearly delineated.

Comment #3:
"If reps were actually trained on how the insurance products they trash work, they could do a better job “educating” the public. I have a client that was told by a PFS rep to cancel a CV policy he's had since he was a kid(long before I knew him). There was a substantial amount of cash in the policy because his grandparents gifted large amounts of premium but the PFS rep didn't understand that the distribution of that money was a taxable event and would have cost this guy thousands of dollars. This happens because PFS reps know nothing about insurance."

Response:
Obviously, you represent a competiting company or you compete with PFS as an independent agent. It sounds like the Rep in the instance you cite did a very poor job, and it might even have been due to a proper understanding of that client's situation. Those things happen, and they happen in ALL companies. Ford has sold a defective car (the Pinto) because they didn't do sufficient research. Microsoft sold operating system software that turned out to contain some serious bugs and in some cases, really messed up people's computers. The point is that as long as these and other companies continue to serve the public interest and provide needed products, it is accepted that not every transaction or product is going to turn out the way they might have hoped. That does not mean Ford and Microsoft shutter the windows and go out of business. Not every PFS rep is as knowledgeable as we would like, either, but many of them are VERY good and at least, the vast majority of them have their hearts are in the right place.

Comment #4:
"I've heard reps sell a SMART loan as a simple interest loan. It's not. And btw, a couple points higher interest rate will cost a client thousands if not tens of thousands more than a lower rate. But you say you are doing a noble thing by selling it to low income people? PFS term insurance costs much more and it's noble to sell it to people who would benefit from a lower premium policy since they could actually save more for retirement?"

Response:
TEchnically, all mortgage loans are "simple interest." The SMART loan, however, is a daily unpaid balance loan. What people often overlook is that PFS provides these loans, often with a "blended" interest rate, that is lower than what the client was paying if you combine their existing mortgage and all consumer debt together. If we cannot save the client money each month, then we don't even recommend the loan. Does that mean that a customer, if they had any idea of what they were doing and were willing to invest the time and effort, could not go out and find a loan with better terms? Of course not. The key is that your average consumer either don't want to invest that effort or won't, and so they sit in a situation that is definitely not good for them. Your logic here is really poor, because if we followed it, then anyone who is is sold a car, other than a Mercedes or a Bentley, is being ripped off. THAT is just plain stupid.

Comment #5:
The comments in your last post illustrate a “Why should we change" attitude. PFS was designed in the 1970's and in 30 years it hasn't changed. That's the problem.

Response:
That comment is perhaps one of the most idiotic statements I've read on this thread. Regardless of whether you think it has gotten better or not, MASSIVE changes have occurred since PFS was founded...particularly since 1998 when Citigroup acquired this firm through the merger with Travelers. Product lines have been added and others improved, the compensation program has been vastly improved and increased, and the marketing gets better all of the time.

Comment #6:
"I don't think that selling products that are not competitive in the market by using untrained, unknowledgeable reps that have been recruited with the promise of a 6 figure income are minor flaws. I don't think that paying a rep a 25% commission and making more than he does on his efforts because I override him is a minor flaw. I think those things are outright wrong and should be changed. You offer an opportunity, but you exploit those looking for an opportunity in order to make higher commissions and overrides. You yourself lied when you said an RVP loses the override on an agent he promotes to RVP, but you just gloss over that fact like it doesn't matter.

Response:
I take direct offense to your calling me untrained and unknowledgeable. You don't know me, but I would match my training, credentials and educational background against yours ANY DAY. No one promised me a six figure income when I came here. They said this opportunity provided the potential for a six-figure income. Turns out they were right...as I have made six figures for the last two years. That income continues to grow as I add new Representatives, who I train, to my team.
The RVP DOES lose the direct override on a subordinate promoted RVP, so of course, I didn't lie. You simply exposed your ignorance on this point. The promoting RVP gains a "generational override" which means the company pays the promoting RVP a piece of its profit on the new RVP's entire team. None of that generational override comes out of the promoted RVP's pocket, and he is paid at exactly the same rate as the promoting RVP.

If I may make a suggestion, since you have already indicated you are a competitor...
If you would spend as much time taking care of your clients as you do trying to bash PFS, perhaps your business would be more successful. I can't respond anymore here, because I need to take care of my business.

Good luck to you, and I hope you take that last bit of advice to heart.

Don't judge by what you read. Judge by giving the company a try.

Let's first address professionalism. I personally have a MS Chemical Engineering. A couple from our office recently opened their own office and they were Chemical Engineers by training also, one with a masters and one with a doctorate. However, that means nothing. Primerica is an equally opportunity company. They realize that it is not someone's training or education that matters, but their willingness to go to work.

My father only has a high school diploma, but he never worked a day in his life for anyone else. He has been a very sucessful business man. However, I am apparently a slow learner. It took me 16 years in the corporate world to realize that working for myself is better than working for someone else. I left my manager job making over $100,000/yr to go full time with Primerica, and am very happy I did.

Bill Gates never finished college, but I doubt if anyone posting here would say he is not a business genius. Now we all may not agree with his methods, but everyone should respect his ability.

The one thing that has baffled me about many of those I have recruited is that most people are willing to work harder for someone else than they will for themselves. Very few people are cut out to run their own business, and therefore fail. That is why there are many more employees in the world than employers. However, that does not mean that the company offering the opportunity, such as Primerica, is a bad company. It is just a reality. The 80/20 rule applies to us just as much as to any organization. That is, 20% of the people do 80% of the work. Our job is to find the 20%, but we can only do that by weeding through the 80% Unfortunately there is no test, and a resume certainly doesn't help. The only test is a field trial.

However, any large company will have its bad apples. There was one office that I came to know that was what I would call a recruiting only office. The owner of that branch was very sucessful, but his methods were questionable. Guess what? He was terminated by the company, and he now works for HBW.

Our company's mission is to do the right thing for people 100% of the time. We avoid rip off products like cash value insurance, PMI payments in mortgages, and penny stocks in investments. These are all promoted by various agents of so called "professional" companies. Our company is every bit as professional. However, that doesn't mean we do not also have the bad apples. But they are not condoned by the corporate office, and they are dealt with. That has not always been the case at some of our competitors.

Most of the negative postings in this board are from people who never really got started with the company or only stayed for a short time, while the positive comments are from those that have been with the company for a long time. I don't think that is a coincidence. Most people that come to Primerica have an employee mindset. They want to company to pay them and guarentee them. That is not the way business works. Business owners, don't get paid to be trained, they pay others to train them. They don't get a guarenteed return, but they have the potential to make a lot more. They rarely make money in the begining (in fact they typically have to put in a lot of money)but make a lot of money later on.

In the real world you are either leveraging people or are being leveraged. Business owners leverage people, employees are being leveraged. Primerica allows people to start off as a self employed person, and become a business owner. Some people call the leverage a pyramid.

The last time I checked, the hierarchy in most companies is in the shape of a pyramid. The company I worked for had one CEO, several presidents, more directors, even more managers, etc. The top guy was making the most money, and the bottom guys were doing the producing of the product. Yet that company is a real company, while some would say Primerica is not. The person who does the most leveraging is the investor. He doesn't do any work, yet gets all the profits (and most of the risk). That is capitalism.

Enough about the opportunity, let's talk about what the company does. I have helped a lot of real families. In the begining most of them were my friends. I did not use any of them. I helped all of them. They would all agree, or they would not have given me the referrals that helped me keep my business going. My best recruit has been my previous boss's husband. They were able to see the passion and belief I had in Primerica, and therefore they also believed in the company. Furthermore they were also my clients. So, they had a chance to see first hand what our company was able to do. Do you think if even a small amount of the stuff written on this board was accurate, I would have that person as a recruit?

Enough rambling. Don't judge by what you read. Judge by giving the company a try. You also may want to talk to people at several different offices first, since they are all different. This business may not be right for you, but that doesn't make you a bad person nor does it make the company a bad company.

Responding to Ron (Bonita)

It's refreshing to have someone from Primerica who speaks with respect.

I just want to probe you a bit:

"Actually, RVPs CAN qualify for CONTRACTUAL ownership of their businesses." The key word is "qualify." How is this accomplished? What is expected on the part of the RVP in addition to the IBA contract? What exactly can an RVP look forward to under a contractual ownership? Is there a title change under contractual ownership? Would additional expenses be incurred under this type of arrangement (e.g. office rent)? What percentage of the RVPs actually qualify for this type of contract?

As far as titles go, I posed a question without a
response. I already know that an RVP isn't an officer nor an executive from Primerica. Which titles are officers and executives?

**tap tap** (tapping foot impatiently) ...still waitiing

Where's the extensive exposé on Primerica the Frog....errrr....Fraud Chick has promised?

DOESN'T MCDONALDS FOCUS ON HIRING A TEAM AND MARKETING

They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:

Their email: kendrabonds@hotmail.com
Their name: kendra

Their relationship to the company: Supporter

Rebuttal:
YOU HAD MENTIONED THAT ALL THE MEETING FOCUSED ON WAS RECRUIT, RECRUIT, RECRUIT AND NOTHING ABOUT HELPING PEOPLE GET OUT OF DEBT, OR ANY OF THE PRINCIPLES AND CONCEPTS THAT THE COMPANY TEACHES. DOESN'T MCDONALDS FOCUS ON HIRING A TEAM AND MARKETING.

ARE THEY NOT IN THE FRANCHISE BUSINESS? HOW DO YOU THINK THEY MAKE THEIR MONEY? IN ORDER FOR THEM TO MAKE MONEY THEY HAVE TO DO WHAT?(THIS IS A NO-BRAINER)THEY HAVE TO HIRE THEIR TEAM IN
ORDER TO MAKE THE SYSTEM WORK.

IT IS NO DIFFERENT THAN ANY OTHER COMPANIES OUT THERE AND WHAT THEY DO. AS FAR AS COLLEGE EDUCATION GOES COLLEGE IS NOT FOR EVERYONE. THE AVERAGE AMOUNT TIME SPENT ATTENDING COLLEGE IS ANYWHERE BETWEEN 2&10 YEARS, NOT THAT THERE IS ANYTHING WRONG WITH ATTENDING COLLEGE FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO GO, HOWEVER HOW MANY YEARS DO YOU THINK THE AVERAGE PERSON SPENDS PAYING THOSE STUDENT LOANS WITH ANYWHERE FROM 10-18% BACK? HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE IN DEFAULT WITH THEIR LOANS, BECAUSE THEY FOR SOME REASON(FAMILY, NOT MAKING ENOUGH MONEY, TOO MUCH DEBT TO INCOME RATIO, ETC)OR ANOTHER HAVE NOT YET BEEN ABLE TO PAY ALL OF IT OR EVEN BEGIN PAYING ON IT, BECAUSE WHEN PEOPLE DO GRADUATE FROM COLLEGE THEY ARE EXPECTING TO LAND A JOB RIGHT AWAY AND THAT DOESN'T ALWAYS HAPPEN, AND FOR THE ONES THAT DO FORTUNATELY LAND A JOB RIGHT AWAY, TOO OFTEN MORE THAN NOT DO STUDENTS EXPECT A HIGH PAYING JOB RIGHT OUT OF COLLEGE AND THAT DOESN'T ALWAYS HAPPEN EITHER.

SO WHAT HAPPENS NEXT, IS THAT A LOT OF COLLEGE GRADUATES DON'T EVEN END UP WORKING IN THE FIELD FOR WHICH THEY DID OBTAIN A DEGREE IN AND FOR WHICH THEY ALSO STILL HAVE TO PAY THE LOAN BACK.

WHEN YOU DO MEET WITH A POTENTIAL EMPLOYER OF CHOICE, WHO DICTATES YOUR SALARY, YOUR RAISES, ETC. IT SOUNDS LIKE PRIMERICA IS ONLY TRYING TO GIVE PEOPLE THAT DON'T HAVE A COLLEGE EDUCATION THE SAME OPPORTUNITY THAT WOULD BE GIVEN EVEN IF A PERSON DID HAVE A COLLEGE EDUCATION.

Job INterview With Primerica

“Don't judge by what you read. Judge by giving the company a try.”

That's exactly what intelligent people tend NOT to do. What you just wrote is so dumb it's beyond imagination. Buy the book before you buy the coin - don't they say.

Fortunately, we have sites like this one and I praise all those individuals who came forward and told their stories. I also congratulate the less fortunate minds who tried their best to defend their position. But clearly, people like Stuart, Patrick, or Ruth from Ohio simply demolish any remotely potent argument coming from the other side.

After reading the entire thread I came to the predictable conclusion that the so-called business opportunity I got from Primerica earlier this week is bogus. I have not paid the $199 or made any commitment yet because I felt I should investigate before going any further.

Everything about my encounter with Primerica was unusual: The phone call I received was from an Anonymous caller. I never posted my resume anywhere, yet got a job offer in a field completely irrelevant to what I have done for the past 20 years. The job interview was scheduled during a weekend. My interviewer, in his mid 30's said he did not use computers much and couldn't care about e-mail or the Internet. What?

The job interview was marshaled using canned PowerPoint-slide material interlaced with trivial QA about mortgages, life insurance and mutual funds. Yet, when asked about how they generate income, he started fiddling around with his pen on a piece of paper. He had no slides for answering those kinds of questions.

I sarcastically pointed out to him that his drawing looked like a pyramid… on its side.

Lastly, he insisted that my wife and I should meet with him later this week – to go over some of the material.

Sure. Let's do that. LOL.

Clarification request for Ron (Bonita) sounds like more PFS double-talk

Sorry Ron,

But this sounds like more PFS double-talk. What is “CONTRACTUAL” ownership? Sounds conditional to me. You either own your clients or recruits or you don't? Can you leave PFS and take all of your clients and recruits with you and join Met Life (oops, no you're already partners), how about NY Life? Does PFS determine its market value, or does the market place? A little elaboration would be useful, such as qualification factors etc... And BTW is it not the case that an RVP that has his own office or shares one has to pay rent for office space, phone system installations and phone bills, not to mention money for satellite TV, access to PFS software (produce FNAs), marketing materials, SMART? Loan license etc? Please clarify.

Regards,

Do you really want to match wits?

You'd be the first PFS rep here that would even try. You think I post here because you are my competition? Let me tell you something; A PFS rep cannot compete with me. In fact whenever I see a prospect with a PFS policy, I know it's a slam dunk to replace it and take the client. I post here because I had a client ask me to come over and listen to one of you yahoos try to talk my client out of some policies that I had written for him and his wife. This untrained and just plain ignorant rep was trying to talk a 55 yr old out of an EIUL policy (That stands for equity indexed universal life in case you didn't know) that was set up to handle his estate needs and to allow him to take more money out of a qualified pension plan and leave a legacy for his grandkids. Needless to say that these financial panning concepts were over the head of this rep that up until a few months before was pumping gas at a convenience store and knew nothing about life insurance trusts and how they work but he was sure that my client was being ripped off.

This idiot rep actually said that a mutual fund would be better for my client's financial planning needs than the plan I set up. IMO, you PFS reps are a menace and the poor advice you give will come back to bite you on the ass. I'd like to know how long your average insurance policy stays on the books because I and some other independents replace them like there's no tomorrow.

So when I say that PFS has not changed in 30 yrs, I mean that the reps are still unqualified to do what they do and should not be giving advice to anyone. In fact I read a story recently that PFS was petitioning for a term only insurance license. Why is that? Could it be because the guys being recruited can't pass the test everyone else has to take?

The only changes you cite are pay increases for the reps, but you still start people out at 25%, that hasn't changed and you might think replacement is a good thing but in the real world of business, you actually own your business from day one and you don't have to give a piece of it away to anyone for any reason or wait for something called “contractual ownership”. What the hell is that anyway? If you actually owned your business, there would not be a qualifier in front of the word ownership. The true test of whether or not you own an insurance agency is if you get to keep your clients if you sever ties with a company. At PFS you are captive to them and even at RVP with “contractual ownership” you would not be able to take your down line agents or clients with you if you left. Therefore you do not really own your business.

And what are all these great products you've added? You have one overpriced insurance product, a couple of so-so variable annuities, one LTC product from GE and the same mutual funds that every broker sells and let's not forget the “interest rate doesn't matter” SMART loan.

And here is a little tid-bit on PFS; They are one of the only brokers that I know that charges their securities reps a sales charge on personal mutual fund purchases. That's right, most brokers let their reps buy mutual funds for themselves and their family members with NO sales charges. But PFS is better than all the rest.

Here is a little recap of the SMART Loan compared to a standard mortgage:

250K For 30 yrs monthly average balance at 6% interest:

Monthly payment: $1498.88
Total Interest paid: $289,596.80

Same loan with bi weekly payments of $749.50

Duration 24.31 yrs
Interest paid: $225,183.00

A savings of $26,741.38

Now a SMART Loan at 7.5% (Daily Average Balance)

Bi weekly payments of $874.02
Duration 23.11 yrs
Interest paid: $277,034.06

Your loan cost $51,851.06 MORE than a standard loan with bi weekly payments. But gee, I thought interest rate didn't matter.

So it is reasonable to assume that if the standard loan was used to consolidate a client's debt that they would save more than they would with your loan. But you guys defend the SMART loan to no end. WHY?

Add to the savings on the loan the fact that any other agent can provide a term policy for substantially less than a PFS policy and the client can save even more. Here's a neat little fact about how PFS underwrites a policy. you guys all quote standard rates and that's O.K. but if the paramed exams and blood tests indicate that your client actually qualifies for preferred rates, PFS still issues the policy at standard rates. Most other companies I deal with will upgrade a person to a better premium rate if their medical results are better than standard even if I quoted standard rates. I know this because I've replaced PFS policies at standard rates for people who easily qualified for preferred rates with other companies. That's just one more way PFS is looking out for the little guy I guess.

But you go ahead and tell yourself that you are doing right by your clients and ignore the fact that you are charging your clients in the “under served middle class” more than any other company if it helps you sleep at night.

And not that I really care what you think, but the few minutes every couple days that I spend here responding to you guys doesn't hurt my clients or my business at all, and I'll venture to say that all my clients will end up better off than yours.

No one in Primerica offers anyone a job.

Marc, even though you appear to have made up your mind. It is important to address some of your points. First of all, Stuart is one of the most prolific and often incorrect posters on this site and I have continuously debunked his postings as exaggerations, half-truths, and simply disingenuous. I suggest you look at our “conversations” on other this and other threads.

You stated:
Everything about my encounter with Primerica was unusual

I answer:
I wondered why that was when I first read your post. I realized why as I read further. Your expectations were wrong.

You stated:
I never posted my resume anywhere, yet got a job offer

I answer:
This is the first thing wrong. No one in Primerica offers anyone a job. There are basically no jobs available. We offer a business opportunity. So right from the start, you were setup to be disillusioned.

You state:
completely irrelevant to what I have done for the past 20 years

I answer:
Yes, as we do offer an opportunity for those who are untrained in the financial services industry. Especially those who need to consider a career change. We offer an extensive training regime to help you learn the business. But again your expectation (same industry) could not be realize and therefore Primerica would be a disappointment if you wanted the same industry you are in now.

You stated:
The job interview was scheduled during a weekend.

I answer:
Again, it is not a job interview. Furthermore, we do that during the weekend and in the evening because most people looking at the Primerica opportunity have day-time jobs. We try to help people. We don't want anyone to have to lose a day's pay. This is very positive. So your presumption that the weekend event is a negative is wrong. Again, if you are expecting the traditional job interview, those usually occur during the workweek, you were setup to be disappointed.

And this is what's wrong with the postings on this site. Many of them are from people who though one thing and were disappointed to find another thing. For whatever reason, they come back slandering the company without merit.

You stated:
My interviewer, in his mid 30's said he did not use computers much and couldn't care about e-mail or the Internet. What?

I answer:
So what if the person you met is on-line challenged?

You stated:
The job interview was marshaled using canned PowerPoint-slide material interlaced with trivial QA about mortgages, life insurance and mutual funds. Yet, when asked about how they generate income, he started fiddling around with his pen on a piece of paper. He had no slides for answering those kinds of questions.

I answer:
All I say here is that my presentations include how you earn commissions and how much. And as we are a financial services company, what did you expect besides mortgages, life insurance and mutual funds?

You stated:
I sarcastically pointed out to him that his drawing looked like a pyramid… on its side.

I answer:
I have a similar illustration showing how commissioned sales work. And real estate agencies (did you know they are pyramids also?) By the way, if you are currently working at a job in corporate America, have you ever looked at the organization chart? I am certain it looks like a pyramid. In fact, all hierarchical structures are pyramidal. What you are implying is that this is a Ponzi scheme, which is illegal. Primerica is not a Ponzi scheme. It is a MLM organization just like AVON, AMWAY, and most real estate agencies. It is a legitimate part of CitiGroup.

You stated:
Lastly, he insisted that my wife and I should meet with him later this week – to go over some of the material.

I answer:
If someone doesn't want to take advantage of the opportunity, we do extend to them a free Financial Needs Analysis to help them with their financial future. I assume by your sarcastic remark that you have no intention of doing that. That must mean, if you don't need a financial roadmap, that you have no credit card debt, your mortgage is paid off, you kids college expenses are all saved for, you can travel several times a year, and that you will have several millions of dollars in your retirement fund. If so, congratulations, you are the first I have met that has their finances so well structured. If not, you need to take a deep breath and realize that you went in the wrong direction here (following Stuart). Have a financial analysis done so that you can take care of you (and your family?).

Law makers must get involved

Based on further readings I did, it is apparent to me now that Primerica does not offer a job. Indeed, both sides will agree here: If you are looking for a job DO NOT go to Primerica. You are wasting your time.

But really, let's forget semantics for a moment. In my traditional mindset I was going for a job interview. Whether you like or not, that's what real people expect.

The issue with my wife came up before I said I wasn't interested. Your suggestion about helping us is light headed. I made my salary request very clear at the beginning of our conversation, based on what I make at my current job – which is already a six-figure income. Young man, I may be gullible but I am no new hire. And yes, I have accumulated some capital, and yes I do not have any debt whatsoever. I already make use of financial advisers, notaries and accountants.

Unfortunately, I was too quick to volunteer personal information because I trusted the red umbrella at the front door. This fart got me talking like a stupid recruit. I should have realized what was going on, but my eyes were glazed when he said he made over $300,000 last year. His partner made 500,000, and so forth.

I am at a point in my career where this sort of offer was actually reasonable under the circumstances. Yes I am pissed because I new nothing of this scam. Now hear this, Paul of Brooklyn and all those who benefit from this outrage. I will make some phone calls to law makers and get to the bottom of this. Trust me.

To Ron: Primerica is a joke, it is what it is..

Unfortunately (or purposely) you submitted a response against me in the wrong thread! I read this thread due to the wonderful reponses from Skull Pilot and noticed that. Personally, you have so many errors and ommissions in what you wrote, I care not to respond.

I'm getting tired of responding to individuals like you. It has become quite boring to break people like you down. Anyway, Skull Pilot has done a GREAT JOB of that already (take it or leave it).

Primerica is a joke, it is what it is, deal with it!

..your ridiculous McDonalds analogy

They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:

Their email: hereinstlouis@hotmail.com
Their name: C.D.

Their relationship to the company: Owner

Rebuttal:

Kendra,

By your nearly illiterate posts and ALL CAPS, you are proving your opponents' point every time you post. Keep up the good work.

As to your ridiculous McDonalds analogy (which, by the way PFS uses constantly -- maybe because so many of its MLM agents come off the burger line), it's just silly. Can the McDonalds counterboy go out and hire burger flippers at will - ten of them, twenty of them, and then take a piece of the pie when they flip a burger? Can the fry guy hire 100 soda-dispensers and 10 janitors and hope to take a piece of each of their wages when they mop the floor? Can each of those janitors hire 150 toilet
scrubbers by recruiting at the other McDonalds?

What you are offering is not a job, and not a career. It's a great way to part with $200 of your own money and have less of a chance of being successful than if you went to a casino.

Liars

Listen. I have a brother that works for Primerica and all I can say is that he has always been lazy, always been a liar and has always ripped people off. On the same note, most people are drawn to him and find him charismatic and charming. Then he sticks it to 'em.

Contacted by Primerica

I received a post card in the mail today requesting I contact a woman at a local phone number to discuss "full or part time management opportunities". There was no return address on the post card and the stamp was postmarked from New Mexico (I live in St. Louis, MO).
I am not currently looking for employment, although an old resume may be on a professional job search site or two. I have a degree and seven years of experience in Mobile Marketing. Nowhere, on any resume, have I ever expressed an interest in finance. Also, I have been recruited for many jobs through word of mouth and networking. I have never received this type of recruitment from a professional company.
All of this made me skeptical so I did some research. I cannot say whether employees make a wage on which one can live comfortably or whether the company acts unethically. What I can say is that I am not willing to take the time to find out. The manner in which I was contacted was unprofessional enough to let me know not to waste my time or talent calling this woman back.

If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is

I was just recently "recruited" by a local representative who caught me while I was drinking wine. He loaded my head with great praise about meeting me at my current job, and was so impressed with my "customer service" ability. I will take the praise, as I truely believe I do have great attributes that I can offer a "company". One of the main questions I kept asking was "Executive Vice President?". I was reassured that there is an interviewing process that I would need to be involved in, and as well there was "thorough training to allow me to learn all facets of running my own office". WOW! My own office, my own team SOUNDS AMAZING!! Sort of like the old saying "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is". There was a little voice through my wine haze that kept telling me, this is really strange.... Executive Vice President of an office? I think after reading this website and reading the strange ideals that this company holds, I will place my time towards an actual "company" where I will receive a dependable form of income, benefits, and a potential to grow like normal life gives. If I am missing the boat with Primerica, OH WELL!! I guess I just can't convince myself of being a part of something that doesn't sound very tangible. If I want to be a part of a Pyramid scheme, I will go to Egypt and check 'em out!

Deceived but almost scammed

First,I must say that this site is addictive and thank you sooooo much for existing. I have visited it a few times and have wanted to ask questions but have lived in fear, like many others out there. I might, in the end, take this rebuttal to a new level, but it is still a free country we live in the last time I checked. I will try to keep it on a professional level and apologize up front for any gram/spell errors that I make. I will not take the time to edit this only because that is what I do all day at work, as a teacher,and I'm on Christ/vacation and people learn from their/others mistakes, right?

Many of the entries have been very informative and I was happy to read that so many people have walked away from this company with their heads held high and their pockets still full. I am one of those people. Two people I would like to thank for this is my father and mother. My father has owned his own business for over 35 years and has never screwed anyone over, maybe that is why he does not have a six figure income ( far from it, but has one million in asset). My mother has never trusted anyone (except my father) and instilled that in me. OK, I know this is not the Grammies so I'll stop with the credits.

Getting to the point, which is Primerica, and my experience. Funny I hesitate at this point because I do not know where to begin. If I had been an ex-employee filled with the RIGHT TO BE ANGRY!!! I'm sure I would have a lot to say and the proof to back it!!! If I had gone to one of the meetings I would have that experience to share with you but, sorry, did'nt make it that far and the thing is I still feel a bit like I lost an OPPORTUNITY OF A LIFE TIME. There is more to the story, don't you worry, it gets better!

Please don't treat this as a letter, I do have a buttal. But before I speak, I would like to ask the questions. Why is it that the rich always want the poor to stay poor and in debt? I am portuguese and some consider me to be white, BUT i consider MYSELF to be latin. I guess it's whatever you see (Primerica thrives on this minority asset). I am of European desent (white)but proudly speak latin and assimalate with the latin culture, with great dignity!!!!

I will take a wild guess at the answer for my latinself, about how society has been set-up. I will spare you my fathers take on politics via me and just say that Primerica Reps are following the saying, "If you can't beat um, join um!" SAD BUT TRUE! Shoot, to anyone who watched Farenheit(spell check) 911 and still voted in Bush as our President, we know this is true.

So back to the reason I began this buttal, I feel that that the company of Primerica ruins lives. Not only do they make people lose time+money =work,but it ruins families and friendships. In a much worse extreme, it ruins the lives of the people who believe so much in this company that they sacrifice their degrees, that they worked so hard for and owe so much to the government for. I have to tell you that I know of many teachers and college educated people that have "converted" . Why? They are smart?

Anyway, my major guestion is, has anyone visiting this site ever thought or felt like a Primerica Rep would stoop so low as to have an intimate relationship with someone in order to recruit them? Shocking I know, but I would just like to put it out there and see what people have been living in fear of?

Thank you

being a Regional Vice President with primerica really doesn't mean much.

Anthony...but...but...but

Anthony. You just don't understand. Professionalism isn't necessary to become a multi-gazillionairre sipping drinks on a tropical beach somewhere. All you have to do is quit your job, become a primerica agent and within a few short years you'll have 100,s, maybe even 1000s of agents out there all selling in your downline. Its easy. Anyone can do it. If you don't believe me, just ask your friendly local Primerica Regional Vice President.

Oh, one word of warning...being a Regional Vice President with primerica really doesn't mean much. It sounds impressive but if you recruit enough of your family members your entire region can consist of an area the size of your family Thanksgiving table.

By the way, don't ask your RVP to answer any technical questions a client may bring up for you.
He'll just say "follow the plan" because its the same for everyone.

Just some questions

I recently signed up to be a sales rep at Primerica and even payed the 199 for training. Sadly after reading all this (well, more like a third of it, since its so long), I'm kind of starting to regret this. The manager guy is telling me to recruit some people, but honestly, I don't feel right in doing so. I feel like I should know completely about the product before having anybody cough up 200 dollars + testing fee for a job. Maybe when I have some more knowledge about it, I'll do it. Still, I sort of wish I hadn't payed up. Is there anyway I can get a refund? There are a lot of doubts right now in my mind. Or is that just the testing fee?

And all this stuff about "Amen" chants, I don't understand.. The video I saw had nothing of the sort.

Clarifying Salvador (Broadview) ..Primerica still scams regardless of the law

Quoting:

"If you were told that Primerica is not a pyramid, you were lied to. It is a pyramid, plain and simple. When we think pyramids, we think Egyptians and illegal scams, but neither is 100% correct. Certain circumstances must happen for a pyramid to be an illegal operation; one of them is the exchange of money between its participants, another is that the earning potential of the participant lies wholly in his or her ability to recruit, not sell. If Primerica did employ this illegal form of operation it would have been closed down a long time ago."

Actually as long as you're selling a product, then it's a legal pyramid, but Primerica still scams regardless of the law. The only other point I need make is that the only way to make a decent living, let alone six figures, is to have a tremendoud downline. Product sales by itself won't cut it.

The truth about Primerica.

To everyone that ever got involved with PFS, as a a former rep, I apologize for to anyone who feels that they were taken advantage of. There seems to be some misconceptions about Primerica. The first one that always comes up is the question. " Is it a pyramid and the answer to that is NO" Primerica Financial Services is set up like and agency system like real estate for example. When you start out you're an agent( rep ) who is working for a broker ( which is the same as an RVP in PFS ) when the agent or (rep) makes a sale not only does the rep get paid but the broker (RVP) gets paid as well. You don't get paid for recruiting which disqualifies PFS as a pyramid. Look at any other industry that is regulated by the state and federal government. The medical industry is regualated by the state and federal govt. The law industry is regulated by the state and federal govt. Well guess what we are no different than any of those industries in the fact that you have to go to school and you have to get a license. The good news is that you don't have to spend four years in school for it. The $199 that you have to pay goes towards the pre-licensing school and licensing fee for the state that you're going to get licensed in. Personally to me it's just another way for state govts. to make more money especially in California. The issue of going to friends and family came up in alot of the complaints. Well first of all this is an industry where you are dealing with OPM (other peoples money) and anything that reps do dishonestly goes uphill in this business.Like the saying "Money does two things it can make good people better and bad people worse." In other words alot of heads can roll. So before Primerica Financial Services and what ever state that you reside in allows you to get a license, they have to make sure that you're a good person and that you're not going to take someone elses hard earned money for your own personal use and by meeting friends and family your trainer gets to see how you react to people and how other people react to you. And if you have the right person training you. And I mean someone who will literally take you by the hand showing you everything and focusing on building your business and not only making you feel comfortable with the process but also making the client feel comfortable as well. Alot of you will say well my company doesn't ask to see my friends and family when i started working with them. True but you're probably not doing anything at your job that involves showing them how to manage their money either. And besides I'm sure that none of you would want an ex-con telling you how to manage your money. Another misconception is that Primerica's licenses are fake. Well if you want to know if that person is really licensed to do business in your state you can #1 get the reps name or insurance license number, which buy the way should be posted in the PFS office depending on what state you're in and #2 call your state insurance dept. With that number and verifiy that that person is licensed in that state to write insurance with PFS. Another misconception that I would have to admit is reps fault that what PFS is offering is a job and that is not the case. PFS is a business opportunity designed so that you come on part-time and KEEP YOUR FULL TIME JOB. Once your part-time income with PFS meets or exceeds your full time job the you have the choice of staying part-time with PFS or going full time. It is absolutely wrong to force someone into going full time without getting to that point. If you have the right person training you they would be making sure that you're managing the money that you're making part-time, in other words making sure that you're eliminating your debt, saving for retirement, and establishing an emergency fund. How can you teach someone to be financially independent if you're not doing the things you need to do to get there. I will be getting back in the company and I'm excited about it. However it's not as simple today as it was way back when. Instead of one product there are now several which means paying more attention to detail when explaining the PFS opportunity. It's absolutey impossible to hire and train 10-15 people at once and show them everything. Now it's a business where you hire one good person and take that person everywhere with you on appointments and when they get license take them with you on your appointments and let them write the sale, which makes sense since your going to get paid on the override anyway and help build their referral base as well as their team. When you feel that that rep can do things on their own or they tell you that they're confident that they can do things on their own. Then you've built a good person who will represent the company in an honest and ethical manner. As far as the cold calling goes. I for one don't like telemarketers calling me during the dinner hour so I for one would not recommend cold calling unless you have a thick skull and you can take alot of rejection. I like to approach people face to face. If you're a good person and you can make friends easily (extroverted) then chances are that you could be good at PFS. If you feel uncomfortable doing that(introverted) then PFS may not be for you. Any business that you try to start in you're taking a risk. Most start ups fail within the first 18 months. Welcome to the wonderful world of self-employment. In the financial services industry the washout rate is about 90%. Hence the saying "Rome wasn't built in a day." Also I hear that the "big dogs" or the "fat cats" make big money from their "slave agents" well PFS is probably no different than other companies that have their "fat cats" that make money from their "slave employees" the only difference is that at PFS the "slave agents" as well as the "fat cats" have all of the tax advantages and benefits of owning a business. As far as people constantly putting out money, well that's business, you have to put out money. If you were going to open up a business of your own other than PFS, you have overhead, supplies, inventory, and other expenses. It takes money to make money. You can't go to Las Vegas and expect to win any money without putting any on the table, except you have a better chance of losing your money in Vegas. I also hear the term "brainwashing" in the fact that those who go to PFS meetings are "brainwashed". If someone told me how I can make my money work better and get out of debt faster and that there was third-party info that proved them correct. I'll take that brainwashing anyday and I'm glad I did. I have absolutely zero debt and also fully fund my IRA which is my mutual fund which is doing very well. So I can happily say I was "brainwashed" into becoming debt free and retiring comfortably. I hope that what I have written here has cleared up some conceptions about PFS and again as a former rep I apologize to anyone who feels that they were misrepresented by Primerica.

Sincerely

The service is for real

I was recruited by PFS back in 1996 and my experience was great. No, I did not stick it out, but that was because i recognized how much work it would be and insurance is always a hard product to sell. However my love for PFS is not about the insurance.

My recruiter was a mild mannerd pharmacists, a great guy, and completely honest. He did not recruit recruiters, he recruited people who could grasp the value of PFS and wanted to provide that service to others, and he was very honest about the money. He told me that if I took the insurance exam I would immediately be able to go to work for a number of other companies and make more money. It wasn't about that. He truly believed in the mission of teaching people about financial security. At the same time a buddy of mine was constantly talking about how great his whole life insurance plan was and why.
The reality is that whole life insurance is a scam that should be outlawed. And nobody who who knows better would ever make that investment though many people would be willing to sell it to you because they do make 50% to 90% comission off of it. Buy term invest the difference, if you don't consider that a service worth offering, well, then I don't know what to tell you.

Eric the Brainwashed and proud of it

Well Eric, some how or another you've convinced yourself that the “brainwashing” received at PFS is a good thing. That in itself shows the depths to which you are brainwashed! Let's review your brain-washed points.

Eric: “Is it a pyramid and the answer to that is NO" Primerica Financial Services is set up like and agency system like real estate”. Gee Eric which Fast Start School were you brain-washed that belief? PFS is a MLM and hence a pyramid! (End of Story). It's a legal pyramid in the fact that it's MLM, but it's a pyramid (Get over it). Show me one real estate agency that pays an “override” which in the language you used in your own rebuttal. Gee, it's interesting how you failed to mention the different layers of “management” between the rep in the field and the RVP which you are equating to the Broker.

Eric: “You don't get paid for recruiting which disqualifies PFS as a pyramid.”
Another brainwashed technique taught at PFS meetings, Fast Start Schools etc…. I'm
Sure that you heard at your meeting Eric, that “recruiting is the lifeline of your business” or “you need to find a recruiting gold mine”. Don't try to pretend that the sole purpose of getting the recruit is not to get to the warm-market of that individual and rape it. Like I've seen so many PFS reps do. That is why PFS‘s turnover is so high.

Eric: “Money does two things it can make good people better and bad people worse." Do you really believe that tripe? Again, all your arguments read like so much fast start school dribble. Well, based on the number of complaints on this site PFS must be recruiting all the bad people!

Eric: “If you were going to open up a business of your own other than PFS, you have overhead, supplies, inventory, and other expenses.” Stop the presses! Eric, You don't have a business PFS home office has the business. All the clients, all the recruits belong to PFS!!!(Read your IBA), not your “imaginary business”, yet you will bear all the burden of running an “imaginary business”, sweet deal for PFS, not you.

Eric: “If someone told me how I can make my money work better and get out of debt faster and that there was third-party info that proved them correct. I'll take that brainwashing anyday and I'm glad I did. I have absolutely zero debt and also fully fund my IRA which is my mutual fund which is doing very well. ”

Lets just see how well you're brainwashed Eric.
Most PFS agents offer their clients a plan called a Financial Need Analysis (FNA). The cute term for a beginning agent is Personal Financial Analyst (PFA). Although they are incapable and not licensed to be a true financial analyst, but that's another argument. When the FNA shows them how to “buy term and invest the difference”, are you upfront with the client and say that there are a lot of cheaper term products on the market and if you invest with ours that there won't be as much left to go into the investment. But you do what's right for the client 100% of the time right?, or have you been brainwashed into thinking PFS is the cheapest? Speaking of investment, do you tell you client that your investments all have loads and that they can go on the internet and get top mutual funds for themselves with no-load? Or do you use some trick you learned at a fast start school to overcome that objection, and invest their money in your limited funds? This is the brainwashing that is going on Eric. And don't forget the “SMART?” loan offered by
From PFS from its sister company CitiFinanicial (aka Commerical Credit) with ridiculously high interest rates. And a debt acceleration program that the average client can do through their own mortgage company. Do you tell the client, hey everything I just proposed you can do through your present mortgage company and do for a lot less? Or will the brainwashed smoke and mirror dance take place to get this client to accept a higher interest rate? Don't worry Eric, they'll teach you all of this at the fast start schools on how to screw the client.

The bottom line is this, I was in the company, I know all the tricks, I just could not go on with the lies and deceit you will experience from PFS. The home office calls all the shots on “your business”. And they can change your life at any time. (Believe it!). Case it point, they started car insurance, they then took away car insurance at their discretion.

So how about all those “clients you own” that have your product? Too bad, give them to someone else, and give the other agent a crack at the rest of your products. Boy, that's running your own business, huh? Feel free to rejoin, but all the complaints on this site are here for a reason, and that's a realty you'll have to overcome, and every day there are more and more complaints. You can run a successful business, helping clients do the things PFS professes to do, however PFS is not the vehicle if you really want to do what's best for your clients. Good luck.

Eric Costa Mesa if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck. ..well you know the saying.

A quote from Eric:

"There seems to be some misconceptions about Primerica. The first one that always comes up is the question. 'Is it a pyramid and the answer to that is NO' "

Eric, if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck. ..well you know the saying. So far nobody has met my challenge by providing documentation to this website proving that a frontline slave Primerica agent can make a decent living (in fact you're better off at McDonalds flipping burgers). The only ones who benefit are the fat cats at the top of this pyramid-scheme company.

Another Eric quote:

"So before Primerica Financial Services and what ever state that you reside in allows you to get a license, they have to make sure that you're a good person and that you're not going to take someone elses hard earned money for your own personal use and by meeting friends and family your trainer gets to see how you react to people and how other people react to you."

Eric, the only thing Primerica checks for is a
criminal background in their screening as that's a
requirement in the insurance industry. Otherwise
Primerica doesn't care what your prior experience
was as is attested to by all the people they invite down to their "rah rah" meetings. The real
reason why Primerica is after the names of people
you know is that your upline gets to make the
money on what's sold to your "warm" market which
your IBA agreement bars you from financially
benefitting from.

Another quote:

"Once your part-time income with PFS meets or exceeds your full time job the you have the choice of staying part-time with PFS or going full time."

That has never happened at Primerica.

Another quote:

"well PFS is probably no different than other companies that have their "fat cats" that make money from their "slave employees" Correction Eric, most companies are salary-based while
Primerica is a commissioned-based company. The average salary is close to $16 an hour (from Bureau of Labor Statistics), what's the
average hourly pay for a frontline slave agent Eric? Let's see documentation and put your money
where your mouth is, you Primerica shill. Prove it
once and for all Eric.

PRIMERICA A PYRAMID. JUST SELL SELL SELL BRING BRING BRING HIRE HIRE HIRE

NO INTERVIEW. NO PERSONAL CHECKING. JUST SELL SELL SELL BRING BRING BRING HIRE HIRE HIRE
no permanent home? we dont care
how far can u go? we dont care!

SOUNDS LEGAL? go try it

for me its deep shit arassment
candy factory management
blind givaway investment
a waste o time one hundred pourcent

The TRUTH about Primerica, Eric? No, you don't have to go to school to get these licenses. You can get them with a no-cost self-study sponsorship from a broker.

Hoo boy, where to begin...

Eric in Costa Mesa wrote: "Well guess what we are no different than any of those industries in the fact that you have to go to school and you have to get a license. The good news is that you don't have to spend four years in school for it."

No, you don't have to go to school to get these licenses. You can get them with a no-cost self-study sponsorship from a broker. Same with real estate. I've gotten insurance, securities, and real estate licenses, each within THREE MONTHS, several concurrently, and none of those took me half as far as a 7-year university degree. But try passing the bar without 3-4 years of law school! A 4-year degree from a university is worth a hell of a lot more than a couple of industry licenses. Spending 4 years in school is not a bad thing. I can't tell you how many times I've seen MLMs denigrate a 4-year college education to tout a far less valuable couple of licenses as a "fast track" to a "business" that 99+% will "fail" at. A college degree is a far, FAR better investment of time and money.

Eric also wrote: "The issue of going to friends and family came up in alot of the complaints. [...] So before Primerica Financial Services and what ever state that you reside in allows you to get a license, they have to make sure that you're a good person and that you're not going to take someone elses hard earned money for your own personal use and by meeting friends and family your trainer gets to see how you react to people and how other people react to you."

Um, that's what a background check is for. You don't see real estate agents hitting up family and friends for R.E. sales.

Eric wrote: "Also I hear that the 'big dogs' or the 'fat cats' make big money from their 'slave agents' well PFS is probably no different than other companies that have their 'fat cats' that make money from their 'slave employees' the only difference is that at PFS the 'slave agents' as well as the 'fat cats' have all of the tax advantages and benefits of owning a business."

WRONG. I'll say it again: For the average MLMer, it is NOT a viable vehicle for income and tax benefits. MLM industry statistics state that on average only 10% of distributors get a commission check each month. Of that 10%, 80% do not make enough to sustain themselves as a full-time income. The IRS says you can't generally operate an unprofitable "business" out of your home with the hopes that it will pay off, and then deduct the cost and operation of a personal residence/home office; pay your family as employee write-offs; write off your car when it's been used for both personal and business use; deduct travel, meals, and entertainment under the guise that everyone is a potential client; etc. See http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=106517,00.html. Also note that for direct sellers, prizes (bonuses, trips, etc.), awards, and gifts are all taxable. Keep in mind that it is NOT your own business and you are NOT an independent contractor; you are a direct seller, a classification the IRS set up just for MLM because of its unique nature.

Eric wrote: "I also hear the term 'brainwashing' in the fact that those who go to PFS meetings are 'brainwashed'. If someone told me how I can make my money work better and get out of debt faster and that there was third-party info that proved them correct. I'll take that brainwashing anyday [...]"

If showing people how they can make their money work harder and get out of debt faster is all Primerica did, then all these people would agree with you. I think it's safe to say that has nothing to do with the 'brainwashing' these people are talking about.

Run. Run in terror.

I had a "group interview" with PFS last night. From the minute I walked in the door, my BS detector was pinging away. The person who greeted me asked who had invited me there "as a guest." For some reason, this set my nerves on edge, like they were trying way too hard to spin what was about to happen. I, too, was a bit put off at the number of references required, and that they asked for "personal" and not "professional" references. I now pray that those poor people I listed will not have to have their phone numbers changed.

Looking around the room, I noticed that most of the occupants were dressed in street clothes. Another flag went up. One guy did show up in a suit, but by the look of him, he had just gotten off work, so it wasn't like he'd worn it on purpose.

From the get go, I felt like they were trying to sell me something. As a person with sales experience, this is one thing I can't STAND! Majestic phrases rang through the air, promising us wealth, glory and a sense of pride at helping people. Comparisons to Wal-Mart (an evil corporate empire) and McDonald's (a tool of the Devil, I'm convinced) were repeatedly invoked. The Red Umbrella of Traveller's is discussed, and how it was given to Primerica as a way of lending them credibility. All I can think is "Build your own damn credibility and get your own logo!" I mean, if you bought a BMW, and then found out that BMW let, say.... Yugo build the cars but use their logo, you'd be pretty pissed.
In steps the "Vice President" of the branch. Now's when I really start to feel slimy. She talks a mile a minute, she talks with her hands WAY too much, and she makes sure to use everyone's name at least 3 times. I've been around, and I know that this is a tool you use to try to break into people's comfort zones, and it irks me to no end. She even addresses the natural "too good to be true" response, saying that when opportunity knocks etc. etc... She shows us all the ways we'll make money, and save people money, and repeats these lofty goals approximately a thousand times. All in all, her hour long presentation could have lasted all of 15 minutes if she didn't repeat herself so much. And when it came to the slide involving the fee for the "IBA," she barely even acknowledged it. Matter of fact, had she known how to use the Powerpoint remote correctly, we wouldn't have even stopped on that slide, even for the 2 seconds it took her to hit the button again.
Finally this part of the meeting ends, and I meet in a group totalling 3 guys with our not-unattractive "hostess." When she asks us what we thought, I kind of hang back and let the other two gush about how wonderful it seems. When she turns her attention to me, and I can feel that she knows I'm not convinced, I tell her that what bothered me the most was the time spent on how wonderful everything was, and the split second, almost under her breath mention of that silly little $199 fee. This is met with a look of clear aggravation, and a stuttered excuse about how she knew we'd go over that more in our little discussion. She asks us how interested we are on a scale of one to ten (ten being foaming at the mouth ecstatic about it), and once she got our responses, asked us what she had to do to make us a 10. Again, I'm feeling like she's trying to make a sale. There's no discussion of what I can offer the company, there's no printed info on what I've just heard for me to examine at my leisure, and once again she looks angry that I've asked for hard copies of this little sales pitch. I can see that I certainly do NOT fit in with their nefarious scheme, and am practically shown the door.

But I'm sure they're a great company. I'm just ignorant and don't know anything. Instincts, intelligence and experience be damned, right?
(For those of you who didn't get this, yes, I'm mocking you)

Sorry to hear all this...

Dear Danielle,

You know I'm truly sorry about everything. Honestly. This might sound repetitive to you but like they've been trying to tell you, we are here to help others. Sorry, I just needed to tell you once more. I am fairly new to Primerica but I will tell you that you will run into some "odd-balls" in this business. Sure, I've heard people say "Amen" and "preach it brother." I've caught myself saying it playingly because some speakers do infact seem like preachers. It's not because we treat it like a cult. This is a business.

It saddens me to hear the last person, Karen, say that she hopes this business goes down like the rest but hey that's her view on the company. You said it best when you said, "For some, Primerica may be their 'thing'." It's true. At first I was skeptical about joining a business that involved working with others with either more, some, equal or no education because I was taught that you are paid based on your education. It's not true anymore. You have a lot of successful people with less of an education from what you have.

The thing about Primerica is that you have to be determined to work hard. I'm doing exactly that. It's like anyone's business: you work hard at the beginning but once you've set the foundation and have built your team, your business can pretty much run on its own without you. That's how a business is supposed to be. YOU are supposed to be the business owner.

You realize this when you think about the Cash Flow Quadrant. Where do you want to be?

Thanks for reading and like we've both said, It's not for everyone anyway.

RAM - 20
From California

(Note: Yes, that's my age and I'm doing perfectly fine with my business.)

Danielle....

I'll be honest, I only read the first couple blogs....

Danielle, you got hosed on the rebutals and primerica... you have a right to be proud of your education and level of expectations for position. of course it doesn't make you better than the rest. Primerica is a strange company. Strange in the type of people it draws, strange in the fact citigroup funds it, strange in the "cult'ish" feel it gives to people that with other opportunities for employment. when i decided to make a career change from wells fargo 2 years ago i felt the same way... went to this completely random meeting, no office, no welcome packet, no security, nothing... it obviously wasn't right for me. i too have a masters in business, have been well paid for most of my working life, found a great job in 2 months from my decision to leave but something stuck in that encounter with primerica. what i HAVE found is that they run a fairly stable, strait forward business, they help people in need, provide a service and jobs. primerica found a legitimate opportunity in the amway sect. really genius if you think of it because those suckers could sell salt to the ocean... get them in suits, teach them financial lingo and let them loose... money in the bank.

RESPONSE TO: Chris - Jersey City, New Jersey

Chris, I don't have a problem with "Buy term and invest the difference", but I do have a very big problem with "Buy Primerica Term and invest the difference". Please read my comments (PRIMERICA GOES WAY BEYOND OVER PRICED!) on this web site that I posted on 09-13-04.

After you read it let me know how you feel about all the people you sold a Primerica term policy to. Guess what after reading your comments... you too also ripped people off but in a different way with a sub standard term policy.

Now if you had or could have sold a better term policy from a different insurance company other then Primerica wouldn't you be feeling a little bit better about yourself right now?

Rebutting Reyes (San Fernando) and Donald (Boulder)

Reyes and Donald are two trollers for Primerica reading off a script in an alleged response to a Danielle who I can't find anywheres on the recent threads (what date did she post?).

First Reyes:

"...I was taught that you are paid based on your education." To Primerica, they don't care what your education level is as they're only interested in your warm market. As far as getting paid, this is a commission-only type of job and Primerica has a huge turnover as over 90% of their work force don't even make $5 an hour - you'd make more flipping burgers, period (which is consistent throughout Primerica's history). Also what you do make, you can consider to be a loan because Primerica can chargeback your commission at any time, even if you don't work for them anymore
(also keep in mind business expenses too).

Now Donald:

For somebody with an alleged Masters in Business, you can't even spell. You work for Primerica, not
"primerica"; rebuttals, not "rebutals", straight, not "strait" e.g. Too lazy to use a free spell checker from off the internet - how about posting that alleged document proving you hold a Masters in Business onto Ripoff Report (if you did have that Masters Degree, you wouldn't be wasting your time with Primerica let alone be trolling onto Ripoff Report along with Reyes doing shilling for Primerica).

It has yet to be proven on Ripoff Report that outside of a few fat cats at the top of the pyramid, that anyone has made a living at Primerica. Also Primerica rips off its clientele
(we need to see more postings from the ripped-off
customers of this company including what compliance or lack thereof has done).

This all makes me laugh

I am new to Primerica, but some of the things that I read on this R.O.R. humor me. I didnt read all of the rantings of mad individuals, but I will say this . In EVERY business (of any kind) you will find people that do things that are not... lets say your cup of tea.

I went to one of the meetings that a few of these people went to and I myself walked out the door, because of the way that the so called teacher had presented the company. He kept telling me that I needed to have another meeting, and another and another. I got fed up and told hiom never to call me again, BUT I believe whole heartedly that the things that Primerica cna offer to the majority of the public would benefit the public grealty.

In my limited experience with the company, I have seen A lady that works for a HUGE healthcare organization be shown that she was not covered in the fashion she was promised. There are alot of people out there that are to trusting, and do not take the time to read the fine print. I would not try to screw over my family and friends, but those are the exact people that I have worked with the most.

If I don't get rich doing this then so what, I want to help people get out of their own way so that they can retire with some wealth and not be 75 working at Wal-Mart as a greeter to pay the bills.

I have not heard anything even remotely similar to what I read above, "chanting" and other such nonsense. Although I can't fault you for not liking that, I would not have liked it either. The rest of you who are just jumping on the band wagon with but maybe a tiny recollection of what Primerica is and what they actually do... please keep your comments and false accusations to your self.

I have been in telecom for 10 years, and have worked for several companies including temp agancies, and not a single one of them had the same process of getting to the end result as the other. One office and standard of practice at Primerica didn't work for me, the other fit just right.

So please if you find yourself condeming an entire company for what bad experience you had think about it before you defame their name in such a crude manner.

My personal experience with Primerica--Cult-like group

I too was contacted about a position in Primerica. The particular VP who spoke to me mentioned he got my resume from Monster.com. I thought that was strange becuase my education and experience are in electrical engineering. I figured it couldn't hurt to at least listen to what he had to say so I made an appointment to visit the office and "interview" with him.

The focus was all about how the company gets people out of debt and helping people. Coming from a technical backround I am almost immune to the "sunshine and roses" tactic and just want to know the details of the position. I wasn't really all that intrested in how nice everyone was and how great the team was (the main focus of the "interview"). Frankly none of that crap intrested me in the least. I asked some very direct questions like "how exactly to you make money, how do you get paid, how much training do I need..... His answer to all of them were by helping people get out of debt. (didn't really get an answer on the training question).

Frustrated but still being polite, I asked for specifics. He then explained some of the details of the FNA (Financial Needs Analysis). By sitting down with families for about an hour you can get all of the their financial information required to enter into a program of the company and it will spit out a 17 or so page report (the FNA). The FNA is really a good tool that shows people all of their debt, timelines on when they will be debt free (based on how much money they said they can commit to paying off their bills every month)and various ways to save money on insurance services / investments. (more to it than that, just a breif description)

This sounded like a good idea to me so they invited me to a second interview. The second interview started with a presentation from some of the top performs in the office. The people I met were EXCELLENT modivational speakers.

Their job was to get you excited about the opportunity because right after the presentations you went to your recruiter's office and that's when they ask you for the 200 bucks to process your paperwork and get you started. I paid and off I went.

I went to their weekly meeting as uncomfortable as they were (I will explain why in the next paragraph) to me because it was encouraged. Every week they did provide training at these meetings about certain aspects of the business. Sometimes it was specifics on how to fill out the FNA for your clients, recruiting, or various other things you will need to help make you successful with the company.

The meetings were uncomfortable because there was too much Thank God for this and God Bless or Amen to that involved. Religion has its place and it is not at a financial services weekly business / training meeting. That made me very uncomfortable. The meetings were also 2 hours long with 50 to 70 percent of them being some sort of pep-rally. Very werid situation. I am not intrested in chanting and hugging, I just came to supplement my income and learn how to do so. You really feel like an outsider if this situation does not fit with your personality.

This is where my experience got just strange enough for me to chalk up another 200 dollar loss and move on. Let me explain a little about my first experiences as a new associate of the company.

When you start with the company, your recruiter wants 5 to 7 references. References after you start working for the company.....weird. I gave only a couple because I didn't want my friends or family involved or bothered until I knew it was possible to succeed with this company. Still with an open mind, I focused on my initial training.

I started to speak to a few people I knew and convinced them to allow my trainer and I to present them with their Financial Needs Analysis. The idea was this: Start with your friends and family because they will be more willing to "help you with you training." This was explained by many different people I met through the company. The idea was that your trainer would do the first few FNA's while you watched and learned how the process went. "No sales attempt would be made during your training sessions with friends and family." That was also repeated many times.

Eager to start my traing I spoke to friends and family and explained the training process to get started. My trainer was almost upset that I explained the process to them. I got the feeling that there was going to be a sales pitch and that he was dissapointed. I became clear that my friends and family were going to be pressured to buy something and he was almost angry becuase he would not get his commission from those sales. From that point on, my trainer had less and less time for my training.

Irritated, I soon ended my involvement with Primerica.

THE BIGGEST LIE in my involvement with Primerica:

**This is not a sales position- Yeah right!! How do you think you make money with this company? You clients just don't hand it over. You make commission form insurance and investment products you SELL to them based on the results of the FNA. They will tell you: "Once your clients see the results of the analysis, the products sell themselves." That is still sales. I specifically asked during one of my interviews weather or not this was a sales position and stated that I hate sales and would have no intrest in a sales position. I was lied to. Unfortunately you don't find out the details until your out the 200 dollars.

Conclusion:

Primerica is a real opportunity to make good secondary income or change careers but you have to be fit into their "cult-like" atmosphere and beleive their lies. You are actually helping people and will have the opportunity to become a licenced life insurance and securities agent (SEC series 6 and I forgot the other license number) but their recruiting practices are a bit shady (lie to get your $200 dollars and hopefully brainwash you into staying).

Just my personal experience, hope it helps.

To the Ed of this site, an honest opinion. Makes you think. I just don't think it's for me.

I too was contacted by Primerica today inviting me do enjoy all the wonderful opportunities that could come my way. I told them I would call back. After reading this site, I probably will not. I have a full time job I enjoy, but was told I could do this part time too.

My comment is really for Ed who placed an editor's note on the response from Kent in Fort Scott, Kansas.

So he filled out the form wrong, hit the wrong radio button, it happens. But Kent is from Kansas not Pennsylvania. Therefore Kent attends PittsburG State Unversity in PittsburG, Kansas NOT the University of PittsburGH in PittsburGH, Pennsylvania. To the best of my knowledge we are the only city that still uses the GH. We too dropped it, but then were the only city to change back to the original spelling.

Kent gave an honest opinion. Makes you think. I just don't think it's for me.

Newb is new

Newb: one thing you have to understand is some of the people who post here are former agents of PFS. It's not so mauch as PFS being a scam or someone not working hard enough, it's about the facts. The Term product is a high priced product when shopped on the open market.

You have to ask yourself how many clients over the years have benefited from the Buy Term And Invest The Difference concept?

Yes PFS has a Term to Term conversion, but at what cost? If a person developed a health issue, how long could they afford to pay premiums? When a health issue is developed usually other cost get higher. So at least a term conversion to a perm product is a good benefit.

That being said.. As of now PFS Term is OBSOLETE. Why not do some comparison shopping on term quote sites, you will see the difference in cost. Now what if you sold the lower cost term and added that to your clients investment program? I myself would think that price is an issue to your clients.

Look outside the company for some other view points. The kool-aid you are drinking won't seem so sweet when you open up your mind to the facts.

You don't know what you don't know. Why is it you don't see any RVP's and above setting message boards straight? You will see Regina Woods from PFS, but I wonder if she owns a PFS term product and if she did would she pay a higher premium just to be loyal to PFS? The policy is to protect her family, not PFS. So I ask, where are your priorities? To PFS, your clients, or your family..You choose which order..
Knowing what I know, I can sleep well at night.

Rebutting Newb (Fort Worth)

"So please if you find yourself condeming an entire company for what bad experience you had think about it...." Not an individual issue here Newb as there are over 500 hundred threads here on RipoffReport.com with thousands of reports against Crimerica so there's nothing to think about. I can add on that Crimerica is rotten to the core.

hey newb, is this groundhog day?

every day i wake up, fire up the ole laptop, log on to ripoffreport.com and read some crimerica newbie repeating the same ole lies and half truths. before you find yourself in credit card debt in 6 months(probably with your beloved Citibank) answer this:

why am i giving my warm market to my trainer and why do i have to pay $199 for this great opportunity?

is your term insurance vastly overpriced? if so, ask yourself why?

why would cash value insurance be appropriate for a client facing a potentially large estate tax? your one size fits all canned sales pitch doesnt address that scenario does it?

why does crimerica deceptively recruit for "management positions because we are expanding in your area"?

would you trust your mom/dad's portfolio with the average crimerican?

why does your not so smart loan cost the average consumer tens of thousands in extra interest payments?

i'll tune in tomorrow and wait for your response.

cheers, Jay

Primerica was doomed right from the start. Any “business” that relies on fraud and deception has a limited potential for success.

There really is only one question left for both primerica and citigroup.

How many new suckers are left for them to exploit?

Both of these companies are doomed. Their business models rely on fraud and deception in order to generate revenue. How long can you expect something like that to last?

Primerica sells insurance that is a poor value in comparison to other companies' products. They rely on deceiving the customer into making a quick purchase before they can figure that out.

Of course, come renewal time, that all changes.

Citi also sell garbage. Bad loans. Bad credit cards. There are many complaints here about their so-called “smart loan”. The customers seem to end up terminating the loan early in order to escape the repayment demands.

So, you see that these companies really have nothing of value to offer anyone. It's all deception and illusion. People eventually figure that out.

These companies are like a house of cards. They can cheat some of the people for a while. But, sooner or later a stiff wind comes along and puts an end to it all.

Each new customer they cheat brings them one step closer to extinction.

The truth is self-evident

Aaah, the "Cash Flow Quadrant."

Reyes, the smartest financial decision you could ever make would be to set that book on fire. Sure, the ensuing blaze could destroy your home. But you'll still be better off than if you were to follow Kiyosaki's advice.

To the Primerica defenders, the intellectually curious, and the wide-eyed recruitees, the resolution to this debate is really quite simple:

The defenders never stick around. That's right, NEVER. Stuart and Paul have been successfully attacking every pro-Primerica report and rebuttal for a couple of years now. I've been at it for three years myself. But no Primerica defender has ever stuck around for more than a couple of weeks.

Why is that? It's because Primerica defenders come in two varieties. The first are the new, hopeful recruits who believe everything that they have been told. Their opinions only change upon first hand knowlege of the true nature of the "opportunity." Inevitably, they figure out that we were right and they were wrong, and they go away.

The second variety are the perpetuators of this scam. They recognize that they are exploiting people, and initially think that their canned responses will fly here. But they don't fly here, and after a few posts these people realize that they are doing their cause more harm than good.

The lies and deceptions are shown for what they are every time. But the truth cannot be defeated, and the liars and the naive inevitably run away with their tails between their legs.

Answering the Danielle question - What a bunch of morons these Primerican shillers are

In my last report I asked when did Danielle post?

After doing some further checking, I see she posted back in 12/2001. What a bunch of morons these Primerican shillers are to not notice the date she posted (looks like they got to get their playbook updated).

I am fortunate

I think this is a rather childish show of a bunch of people ignorant about a lot of things. I have my very own business with Primerica and am very fortunate.

Primerica offers an OPPORTUNITY (referenced in a horrible way) to make extra money. Most people who make it in this company work hard.

There are many that see the amount of work that you need to do to get really good and quit. It takes time to get good, especially since most people that become agents with Primerica, like myself, have a job.

After reading a lot of the above responses it concerns me. I work in an office with very AWESOME people who promote helping people and making money doing it. Any job revolves around the money you make. How many of you with nothing but negative things to say go to work for free?? If I can help a family keep from losing their home or pay it off 10 years earlier with the same amount of money (generally both)and help them retire earlier than they ever thought possible while making money in the process I think that is a fair trade.

It is ashame that so many people out there in Primerica have NO TACT at all. And since most people who get started in Primerica don't have the slightest clue about most of the things Primerica does because it's not necessary. When you apply yourself, which is necessary in any trade, you learn more and more daily.

It works to no ones good for me to try and explain the details of why Primerica is good, but I will explain why it might appear bad. As for ANYthing 9 out of 10 people have a great heart to help people, but the 1 person that most of you have had contact with make the rest of us look bad.

I am sure that someone will find something wrong with what I wrote, though there is nothing, but rest assured myself and many other people will continue to help as many families as possible.

If you have doubts about Primerica then I'm guessing that you haven't had an Financial Needs Analysis done. Look up the nearest office and get it done. IT'S FREE. IT MOST LIKELY WILL HELP YOU. YOU CAN SAY NO. THEY WILL SHOW YOU HOW IT CAN HELP YOU, BUT IF YOU WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH GETTING INVOLVED IN THE BUSINESS AND JUST TELL THEM THAT AND LET THEM SEE IF THEY CAN HELP YOU.

answer to your questions Jay

QUESTION*** why am i giving my warm market to my trainer and why do i have to pay $199 for this great opportunity?

ANSWER*** Your trainer might be taking the commissions for the training appt in your warm market but the trainee is the one that gets all the referals from those people. It is true you don't get paid for sell life insurance but (in california you can get paid for loan almost immediately) you can't get paid until you have a license, it's not Primerica's rule it's the LAW. Plus you don't have to use your entire warm market with your trainer either.

$199 for the Independent Business Application goes to the STATE not to anyone in Primerica. The classes and tests you get for that money would cost nearly if not more than $1000 if you did it on your own (in California), Primerica puts in the difference. On top of that you get your $199 back after 6 training appts. You don't have to buy a ton of merchandise to sell like other company that recruit masses to sell knives, knick knacks and other junk.

QUESTION*** is your term insurance vastly overpriced? if so, ask yourself why?

ANSWER*** This question is vague and I don't understand what you are asking. Level Term Insurance is the cheapest type of insurance there is aside from Accidental Death and Dismemberment which will refuse to pay a claim about 95-99% of the time (check it out if you don't believe me, it's true. Or if you don't want to believe me buy it let your family find out if it will pay.)

QUESTION*** why would cash value insurance be appropriate for a client facing a potentially large estate tax?

"Second to Die" life insurance is a very good thing to have if you are potentially going to face a large estate tax. If you choose to have Cash Value life insurance to provide that, then more power to you. It will probably cost more.

QUESTION***your one size fits all canned sales pitch doesnt address that scenario does it?

ANSWER*** It will be addressed if the individual needs it. Why address an estate tax if someone is not anywhere close to that being an issue (like most people in America)

QUESTION*** why does crimerica deceptively recruit for "management positions because we are expanding in your area"?

ANSWER*** Personally I have never heard of anyone in Primerica recruit for "MANAGEMENT" positions because there is no such thing. However, we are ALWAYS recruiting in your area because there is a HUGE need for what we do.

QUESTION*** would you trust your mom/dad's portfolio with the average crimerican?

ANSWER*** Never heard of Crimerica before but I would trust my Parents portfolio to a company called Primerica, Yes.

QUESTION*** why does your not so smart loan cost the average consumer tens of thousands in extra interest payments?

ANSWER*** Actually a SMART loan not only will not cost the average consumer tens of thousands in extra interest payments, it WILL SAVE the average consumer 100,000's in interest payments. I know because I have helped numerous people with them. If you don't believe me call your local Primerica office and they will gladly show you how it works and how the industry is ripping you off.

There are the answers. I am anxious to hear your reply.

CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.

stuart...

got me on the spelling ... well done... it was late... really didn't give a damn about the post or primerica... thought i would throw my two cents in on a weird encounter i had with them ... that was all...

i haven't heard anything good about them other than seen a blip of a financial report. i was actually coming to danielle's defense because she got ripped for posting her education status and expectations because of it. i had a similar story, had similar feelings and thought that i would tell her as such.

in fact, i did compare them to amway, found the encounter "strange" and said they had a "cultish" feeling about them... if that is "doing shilling for Primerica" then i am guilty... by the way, nice grammar,

"(we need to see more postings from the ripped-off customers of this company including what compliance or lack thereof has done)."

hard to believe... watch.

i recently stumbled across this website after refering a friend to primerica and i have to say, i'm truley dissapointed to find this site. i know there are real rip off companies out there but primerica isn't one of them. i refered a friend to this company because of the great job they did for me. i'm a graphic designer and i lived the designer life style with well over $50,000 in debt. with no way out other than bankruptcy, and this came from the attournies i spoke with. i asked them if there was anything i could do and they said nothing. before i followed there advice i stumbled across primerica, and i have to say, this is a great company. why is it that people are so driven to knock things down that are good. my experience got me debt free! no bankruptcy, i now have a good financial future, i'm saving money, and i love the fact that i'm on track to be damn rich! the thing i noticed the most from the other complainers is that it's the "people" they are turned off by, the company is good, with good standards and a good beliefs and that's to help us, the middle class. who else is helping you get out of debt and make your dreams come true? i looked at maybe joining the company but decided not to, no one pressured me to join. the company takes work, there's no paycheck every friday just for showing up, you have to work. that's the world we've become safe with. the word is "scared", you might not make it, you might not work hard enough, but i know if you stick with something long enough and you really believe in something it will happen. so is it really a scam? no way, "citigroup" the largiest financial company in the world, come on. do you think they got there doing the wrong thing or the right thing? i hope this makes since to someone and they really take a good look for "themselves" instead of taking advice from someone else that doesn't really know.

good luck to everyone in the future,
lee

Understanding Primerica

The purpose of this post is not to stimulate a vast number of rebuttals about the merits of buy term and invest the difference, whether Primerica is part of Travelers or whether Primerica is a cult.

It is more an entreaty to the Primerica sheep who are being sheared: Wake up you are being clipped.

The real business that NSD's and SNSD's, and whatever other titles they have developed lately in Primerica, is FAST START schools.

Here is the lowdown: A fast start school about every 4 weeks at a location suitably far enough away from the office that requires staying at a hotel for the weekend.

The guy at the top " blocks " out 400 rooms at a hotel and then has everyone commit to taking so many rooms for their people to show their support at this big informational rally. Of course, they will bring in some out of town talent that they can make up any story they want about him, to be the main speaker.

His story is usually how he went from unemployed to SVP in 39 days and everyone in the audience thinks: " Hey, I am smarter than that guy and imagine what I could do!"

That is precisely why he was there!

But do you know why you were there?

You were there because your upline sold you rooms at $96 a night that they paid $41 dollars a night for. And aside from that they charge everyone $5 at the door on a Saturday and a Sunday to hear the great speaker and pay for the ballroon.

Well foks, when you take 400 rooms in a hotel...they give you the ballroom.

So here is the math: 400 rooms with a $55 skim on each one for two nights=$44,000.

$5,000 at the door for the 1,000 people in attendance for 2 days=$10,000.

Total skim $54,000. Do you see why they think you need a fast start school every 4 weeks? Selling insurance is gravy...they are in the fast start school business.

Now the finale: The rooms were paid for with cash from the room buyers because they NSD did not take checks.

Of course, he did not take checks because that money along with the $5 bills collected at the door were never reported.

The cost of the rooms was a business expense to the big guy and the collected money was pocketed.

And this is nothing more than income tax evasion.

Now I await the rebuttal of ANYONE in the company
from the newest recruit to the top guy.

Now just make sure that you do some research to see just exactly who you are rebutting. You may have to ask the people who have 20 years in the company and they will certainly advise you accordingly.

Rebutting Lee (Dillon) Even Primerica's own metamorphosis website isn't very flattering towards itself and it's documented that Primerica has had crooks working for it

Before I go deep into this shiller's report, once again I point out the terrible spelling of a so-called professional (graphics designer) who's too lazy to get and use a free spell checker from off the internet.

Very simply Lee, put your money where your mouth is. Provide complete documentation to Ripoff Report backing your claims and assertions, otherwise you're more full of hot air than you'll see in a float at a Macy's Day Parade. For the visitors to this website, look up my reports (and others) that document plus
you can check other websites by Googling Primerica complaints. Even Primerica's own metamorphosis website isn't very flattering towards itself and it's documented that Primerica has had crooks working for it and its parent, Citigroup, has been sued and pursued by government agencies (you can check out Paul from Anaheim's reports who does further documentation).

Rebutting Matthew (Rancho Cucamonga)

Hey Matt, where do you get the nerve to say this:

"I have my very own business with _________ and am very fortunate." Your own business? Crimerica owns your downline and clients (as per your IBA contract)
and can dictate who you can sell the business to.
And it's not a stretch to say that they own your soul too.

Hypocrites- SPEAKING OUT BOTH SIDES OF MOUTH

Today I listend to someone tell me all about why Whole life is the worst product sold to consumers in the insurance market, how companies make billions by taking advantage of consumers lack of knowledge of how whole life is ripping them off and instead they should go with term life

how Primamerica is educating folks - and the only one taking the lead in fighting the battle of overcoming the insurance industry powerful lobbying firms that have bought congress off to the detriment of the poor consumers- o i let this person go on and on in front of the group.

then he went on to state that they were part of the CITIGROUP so they are backed up by the largest finacial company in the world

so after he finished i asked him to explain how he could reconcile that while he is here telling us that Whole Life is trash and those who sell it are ripping off folks - another divsion of CitiGroup known as Citi-insurance group is telling folks that Whole life and Cash value insurance is the finest product every sold and only a "jackA$$" would buy Term life"

you see folks Citi groups wants it both ways

they have one divsion of the company that sells one Message and another that sells the complete opposite message

can you say HYPOCRITE

while primamercia sales folks preach we want to helpf educate consumers so that they can make better decisions their fellow divsion has no problem taking advantage of folks "supposed lack of education of how money works" to the tune of BILLIONS OF DOLLARS

YES CITI GROUPS GET THE BEST OF BOTH

CAN YOU SAY HYPOCRITE

PFS is shady and cultish

I was also in Primerica. I attained District Leader after six months in the business. I have an technical background and absolutely no financial background whatsoever when I first started. I like the idea of “helping people get out of debt and become financially independent.” That was the reason I joined. However, the longer I stayed with PFS the more I realized what it was all about. My RVP and SVP use people to get into their warm market and then dump them when there is no more market to tap into.

Everything PFS does is legal in every sense of the word; however, their business practice borderlines unethical. They focus heavily on recruiting. And yes, it is cult-like. I am a religious guy, but I strongly believe that shoving religious beliefs down people's throat is very insulting and inappropriate. The PFSers in my base shop were all about "religion."

Moreover, PFS insurance is overpriced. There are better or comparable insurance out there that are a lot cheaper. The SMART loan is a joke. The interest rate is high and PFSers will say interest rate does not matter. YES, interest rates matter - even if the SMART loan is set up based on simple interest. I have a technical background so I compared compound interest vs. simple interest. Guess what? It is way better to have a 5% compound interest (current industry average) vs PFS simple interest of 9%.

The problem with PFS agents is that they DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY DO NOT KNOW. Some of them willingly rip people off, but most of them are uneducated in the field of finances that they actually believe they are helping people out.

If you want to be a financial advisor, it is better to be independent. PFS agents are captive. They can only sell Citi group products. Independent agents can truly look out for the best financial interest of their clients. I would not say PFS is a SCAM. What they do is legal, but like I said it borderlines unethical.

That is why I switched to HBW. Go to www.HBWinc.com and do a comparison. Their compensation and commission rate is much better than PFS. Moreover, HBW agents are non-captive (independent). The focus is truly on helping people out and not on recruiting.

The straw that broke the camel's back was when my RVP ripped me off. I recruited a friend into PFS about a month ago. I was still with PFS. He had three friends who were business partners. To make a long story short, these three were interested in getting key employee insurance. Based on their accountant's suggestion, each of them required $600,000 death benefit (1.8 million for three of them). They were all in their mid 50's and early 60's. Since I hired the person who introduced these three, I was expecting to write their policy since I am already licensed. I was very excited to say the least. $1.8 million in policy is alot of money and alot of commission, or so I thought.

My VP insisted that he will take care of things. I trusted him so he took care of the paperwork. I got a call from my upline a couple of days ago. He said that my commission check was in. The check was for $200 bucks. What is wrong with this picture? 1.8 million and all I get is a couple of hundred of dollars! What would I have gotten if I had filled out the paperwork? Probably close to $1500.

My suggestion is be careful with PFS.

You continue to help people????

Hey Matthew in CA.

How do you continue to help people? Advise your clients, you can buy Primerica life insurance or another companies for 20-30% less, which do you think they will choose?

Advise customers on mortgages, you can take our mortgage for 8-9%, and you know its true, you will not get any mortgages or SMART Loans less than this percentage, or do you want one thats 6-6.5% which is the national avergage right now, what do you think they will take??

Ok wait your mortagage will be paid off in 22 yrs, right?? Just tell your precious cleints that they can just make bi-weekly payments on a conventional loan and achieve the same results and thus save $1,000's over your product.

so explain to us all how your helping your cleints???

And read your contract and state the true facts, i will later when i get home i dont have my IBA agreement with me, but it clearly states that if you leave the company for any reason, that Primerica owns your clients... so if you own your own company, why dont you offer more than one insurance company?? or mortgage company??? b/c you cant, so its not like owning any other company, if I own a insurance company, i can offer as many different insurance companies as i wish, not limited to one and thats it..

The Fall of PFS

PFS will fall victim to the Internet. Not that the company will fold because it is huge company and they will always attract new people who believe they will make a fortune. Of course, the new people and their family were really recruited as customers, they just didn't know it.

While they have other products...term insurance is the flagship. Anyone can go online and find term insurance much cheaper than Primerica and a host of other companies.

The Internet allows the companies to deal directly with the retail client. This is why there are an enormous number of ex-PFS out there.

You can see the real state of the industry by viewing the following video: (((ROR REDACTED LINK FOR SECURITY PURPOSES)))

Dr. Maguire

CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.

PFS Sales Force is the Commodity

I'm going to offer another opinion here. And that is, to Primerica Financial Services (PFS) corporate the agent is the “commodity”. That is why time after time their commodity shows up on this site echoing the same time-tested drivel. This is why debating them is futile, because if one disappears another one pops up to take his place. Sort of like the arcade game "Wack a Mole"

If PFS corporate could come up with a business plan that was profitable and did away with this commodity (the sales force) and sell directly over the internet and lower their prices they would do it in a heartbeat. However, what the commodity provides is that precious warm market (leads) which PFS knows is its gold mine. In fact they use to sell term over internet via The Travelers, a former sister company. And the local Citi-Financial offices compete directly with the PFS agents in the selling of the SMART? loans. Citibank sell credit cards directly over the internet again bypassing the sales force. All the while magically convincing their own sales force that they are not a bank at least not like the others.

Sandy Weil, Former CEO of Citigroup which he put together to wreak revenge on American Express, when asked by a prominent PFS'er about the fact that the field agents were now competing with the Travelers in selling of term insurance, said words to this effect. “Son, we're in the business of making money. (I'm paraphrasing)” and was dead serious. I suggest if PFS corporate could replace this commodity (their sales force) with blinking lights and fancy whistles, if it sold more insurance they could care less. Of course there is nothing necessarily wrong for a business to be profitable, that's the whole point of running a business, however the blatant use of systematic deception (as proven by the number of complaints on this site alone) to achieve this does not make it right.

Regards,

numbers dont lie

before primerica...
mortgage $289,900 financed
--------------------------
30 year fixed, 6.1% interest rate, $972K+ in payments...

after...

SMART Loan
done in 20 years, 7 months, 9+% interest rate (who cares), $721K in payments

I'M DONE 10 YEARS FASTER AND SAVE $250K IN INTEREST

Look, money paid out and time in loan is everything... why focus on the APR when it doesnt matter????

BTW - someone point out where i can purchase $1.6 million in term life for less than $155 a month???
--------------------------
BTW AGAIN, yes i'm a rep in part time but will be much more very shortly, the products work, END OF STORY. the education is real. primerica costs you nothing but time and when your realize what you're learning about, the opportunities available, for nothing.... NOTHING.... state and federal licensing costs you money... THATS IT... what you make of it is what you're willing to put into it.

cynics will say things like "its a cult", "its a pyramid", etc. EVERY BUSINESS RECRUITS... you just get paid on how well you train - a great incentive to train well.

Responding to Stuart

Stuart,

I say that "I have my very own business with Primerica and am very fortunate" because it's how it's true. I am bound by the terms and conditions, which Primerica sets down but I chose those conditions as would I have chose the conditions of any other business (such as State Farm, Prudential whom control all the same factors). They own my clients? There is nothing in the agreement that states they own my clients. If I made the decision to separate with Primerica and contract with another company then I could go to those clients again, but I choose to stay with Primerica.

To be completely fair, I have just finished re-reading the entire contract from beginning to end. It says and I quote (page 9 section 6) "You are an independent contractor which means you may exercise considerable discretion in how you conduct ****your business****." It is my own personal business and I can do with it as I please within the the company quidelines (as in any company) I just read. I can operate my office how I choose, I can train how I choose. I can do as much or as little work as I want. I do not get paid for recruiting but can benefit of those below me whom I personally train myself. Last time I checked that is how every single business in the world worked. People at the top benefit financially from the work of those below them, whether positively or negatively. Otherwise business would be futile.

The fortunate thing about all this is that it doesn't matter. Primerica is a good company with great intentions and great products to back it up. We will continue to help people.

Hypocrisy Indeed

In one of the several Primerica meeting that I attended, there was a slide show presentation given. One of the slides showed a mountain of credit cards. The speaker spoke of the evils of credit cards and how they are economically breaking the backs of Americans.

He told us what a big rip off they were and how Primerica helps people get rid of the ever growing problem of credit card debt. It then occurred to me that, in my wallet, I had a Citigroup credit card. I started thinking about what I was being told, and the incredibly moronic logic I was being asked to follow. Get this:

According to Primerica, I'm being ripped off by a branch of Citigroup (Citibank), who are basically stealing my money. The solution, go to another Citigroup branch (Primerica) and give them my money to fix the mess that the other branch created.

When I brought this issue up, the response I got was “we can't control what Citibank or other branches of Citigroup do”. This to me says that the alliance with Citigroup, which they rely heavily on when it comes to recruiting, is a corrupt one. It's like when you pay the mob “protection” money and they are actually protecting you from themselves.

The fact that they get away with this kind of double talk is unbelievable. They say they are proud of their relationship with Citigroup. Then they tell you banks are evil. Citigroup owns Citibank. Doesn't that say to you that, by their own definition, Citigroup is evil?

Even if you don't own a Citibank credit card, when you go through the so called debt reduction through Primerica, you'll get an offer from Citibank for a credit card. In this game of playing both sides of the fence, there's only one clear winner, and it's definitely not the customer. It's Citigroup.

Ex-Employees: Getting your money back

JC in Wyoming, Pennsylvania wrote: "Everything PFS does is legal in every sense of the word [...]"

Misrepresenting business opportunities and earning potential is illegal in every state in the U.S. If you feel you've been scammed, add your voice to the list of complaints by writing the following:

* FTC (www.ftc.gov - "File A Complaint")
* your state's Attorney General (www.naag.org/ag/full_ag_table.php)
* your state's legislators (www.house.gov/writerep/)
* The SEC (for securities-related fraud -- www.sec.gov - "File A Complaint")
* NASD (for securities-related fraud -- www.nasdr.com/regulatorytips.asp - "File a Regulatory Tip")
* your state's Dept of Insurance (for insurance-related fraud -- www.naic.org/state_contacts/sid_websites.htm)

The above sites may not help you actually recover losses, but a pattern of complaints may aid in getting unethical businesses to play fair or shut down. Be aware that laws regarding MLMs need a LOT of work, so make your legislators aware of your plight so they can aid in fixing those laws.

JC in Wyoming, Pennsylvania wrote: "The straw that broke the camel's back was when my RVP ripped me off."

If you've been ripped off, you may attempt to recover your loss. If nothing else, get your attempt on record so others researching the company may make an informed decision. Read your contract and first determine whether you're bound to mediation/arbitration. Make sure you MUST use arbitration; by utilizing that route to recover, you may be giving up the right to pursue the matter through the courts, and arbitrations are often unfairly weighted towards the company. Arbitrators are not required to write opinions or provide reasons for their decision. Consider legal representation, as you may assume Primerica has done it before and will retain their own counsel. (How expensive and convenient -- a good reason some companies force arbitration clauses into independent contractor contracts.) Request an opinion in writing before the hearing date.

If you are NOT bound to arbitration, you may be able to sue in small claims court, since the amount in question is less than $5000. It's a low-cost option with no need of an attorney, and you may recover filing expenses. When filing your claim, make sure you name your RVP as the defendant. If you name Primerica, they may wriggle out of the lawsuit by stating that you worked directly for your RVP, forcing you to start over. (It's a cute legal way of dodging responsibility and a good reason some companies hire employees as "independent contractors".) Make sure you know your state's statute of limitations for filing a claim. Keep in mind your contract may also be void if you are no longer working for the company.

For others, if your disputed amount exceeds $5000, you'll need to sue in civil court with the aid of an attorney. See The American Bar Association's Lawyer Locator service: www.abanet.org/premartindale.html. If you believe others have been similarly defrauded, file the claim as a class action. You may share costs with other plaintiffs -- and attorneys don't come cheap. Attorneys can charge $15-20K just to start such a lawsuit; again, how convenient for Primerica!

One last thing, this regarding your "independent contractor" status and tax liability. You may have been misclassified by the company in order to dodge tax liability and put the onus on YOU. A quick overview of the differences is at www.topechelon.com/recruiters/contracting/20point.htm. If you believe you've been misclassified to your detriment, fill out IRS Form SS8 (www.irs.gov/pub/irs-fill/fss8.pdf) and ask the IRS to make a determination. Note that the company does not determine your independent contractor status; the IRS does. You may be owed back taxes that should have been paid by the company and not by you.

Getting your money back is one thing; getting your award on record is damaging to the company and may aid state and federal regulatory agencies in shutting down fraudulent companies. If you care about helping others avoid being defrauded, then pursue the matter!

I hope this information can help JC and others who feel defrauded by Primerica and similar MLMs.

Patrick in Orlando - SMART Loan

Patrick where are you getting your numbers???

Just went to bankrate.com, figured out your loan scenrio, ,

$289,900 financed,
30 years, 6.1%

Total interset, $342,500 + $289,900 = $632,440..
so that totally blows your scenrio right out of the water, now if you take that same loan and do a bi-weekly payment, here are the numbers

Interset =265607.65 + $289,900 = $555,507..

so both these scenrios blow your SMART loan out of the water, so you tell me what loan would you take for yourself?

For Patrick, the answer is easy

pay the extra 150K with your not so smart loan, do not pass go, do not collect $200, and head straight to Crimerica Jonestown and enjoy a tall glass of RVP KoolAid. cheers, Jay

p.s. tried to rebut Matthew the brainwashed but RipOff seems to pick and choose what to post and what to censor

Patrick

If interest rates don't matter, would you be OK if Primerica were to bump your APR to say 20%?

Poor performer

The fact is that PFS is an excellent company.

1. Even if you dont get involved with the company, they will provide you with a free financial needs analysis and information about how money works.

2. I was a rep out of Kansas City, while serving on Active duty in the Army at Fort Leavenworth.
During that time I was able to educate and help a variety of families, some of whom are doing quite well with PFS products.

3. You can obtain your life insurance license and a Securities license. Both of these achievements are money makers, not only with PFS, but with many other agencies.

4. Primerica exposes the lies associated with Whole life insurance policies and allows people to be more in control of their money.

5. I highly recommend the company

Confusion about what Primerica really is

After reading all of the posts, I am confused on what Primerica does. I had an interview with Primerica about a year ago. They made me come in and fill out an application and then I had a meeting with a supervisor. The weird thing is that they never really explained to me what I would be doing. This is similiar to some of the other posts. They kept trying to get my credit card information. I wasn't to comfortable with it. I advised them that I would have to call back with that information in which I never did. To this day, I am getting mixed signals about what the company is all about. Does it sell insurance or does it get people out of debt? The money was supposed to be for the Series 7,63 insurance test that i was supposed to take and then they would refund me back the money. I don't know what to think. I'm not being negative toward the company or anything but I would like for someone to tell me what it does. I know that I wouldn't become apart of it because in going to the interview, I did not like the atmosphere. Thats just my opinion

Faultering Success Rates

I am sorry that it has taken me a couple of weeks to respond to the question which was asked to me, "Do you have any web sites which show the decrease in earnings and reps in Primerica?"
Not exactly, but let me share with all of you what I do have. Primerica reps 'share' with their prospective clients a presentation called 'the 6 page presentation'. It is a tri-fold presentation which outlines a few cheap, entry level, generic financial concepts such as the rule of 72 and a fake example of a SMART loan and that sort of stuff. If you turn the presentation over you will find some statistics on the company. Since I left the company a year and a half ago and started my own independent financial company I have been cut off from all of the new stuff, but as you all know, I'm sure that if it has changed at all, that the lie has continued to increase. Here is what it said on the 03/2004 edition, that Primerica had 1789 reps throughout the company making $100K+. All of you primerica reps out there who still have subscriptions to Call Atlanta,(it is a copmany web site for reps only), if you look at the 'leaders bulletin' you will find a list of all reps in the company making over $100k. Why don't you share with us the TRUE number. Last I saw was 05/2005. The number was 1010! What happened to the other 779 people? Did they quit? If they were really making a good income then a decision to just up and leave had to be for extremily compelling reasons. Has Primerica been outbeaten in the industry due to its inability to change? I can beat any Primerica rep, and day, on any product, and earn more money doing it (look me up on www.hbwnet.com, click on California and find Richard if you're interested). Did the company start paying its reps less? Commissions were at their highest in 1989 and have been decreasing slightly ever since.

The fact is that all the above are true. Ever since Art sold the company the company has been faultering, and that is really too bad. Commissions have DECREASED and prices on products have failed to stay competitive. Many reps to have morals and ethics have decided to change. Where are they going? Various places of course, but many have come to my company and are better off for it.

According to the Wall Street Journal, Citigroup is changing its focus from a 1 stop financial shop and stream lining its approach to financial services. They already sold off Travelers, and I hate to be the one to speak reality, but when Primerica is sold, you will know that you heard it from me here first. Many top executives have already left the company and all you reps out there who don't build confidence with your clients based on your own ability, but on 'Sandy Weill' and the 'powerhouse' known as Citigroup are going to be slammed once that doesn't exist.
LISTEN UP... Companies come and companies go. Somestimes company X is the biggest and then company Y is etc. DON'T BASE YOUR BUSINESS ON SOME TEMPORARY POSITION OF SUPERIORITY. My clients choose me because of me, not my parent company (AIG). Most don't even realize that AIG is my parent company.

For your sake and for your clients sake, lose the captive status. I have the ability to sell insurance, for example, from over 100 different insurance companies. If one goes out of business or is involved in scandles, then I simply don't use them. If you work for Primerica and Primerica experinces problems, and that's all you offer, then you are SOL. Good luck in the business and when you can't place a sale because a person is a pilot or rides a motorcycle or has diabetes or had a heart attack, well, send them my way. To show that I appreciate it, I'll even send you a finders fee.

the fact is Alan is yet another Crimerica Tool

this latest crimerica shill blindly repeated 5 classic crimerica myths and was craftly enough to separate the lies into 5 distinct paragraphs. hopefully, Alans military background doesnt mean the a$$clown recruiters at Crimerica are now deceiving the fine men and woman who bravely serve our country. they deserve better than to be taken by the snake oil salesman who call themselves RVP's.

General

Hello, this is my first time posting here. I have been reading all the reports on Primerica for a few months now and I think its time for me to put in my 2 cents. I used to work for primerica.

I joined back in 2004 after a recruiter would not stop calling me for 2 weeks straight. I finally joined and decided to give it a try (it looked good). Never did I think I would be forced to go to so many meetings where all they talked about was money money money. The "we help people become debt free and financially independent" is so cliche. They sweet talk you, "you going to be helping people", "imagine what a friend would think when you help him out".

Anyway, I got "trained" got 2 licenses and basicaly used up all my warm market in those training appointments. Why did i do that? Because my "trainer" would not go out with me if i did not make appointments. ( This is when i started noticing things)."Our FNA is free and complimentary", ofcourse its free it only take 2 seconds to do it on the computer.

A lot of banks and financial institutions offer the same exact service and with more options. Most of the sales were completely forced and i was never able to get refferals because of that. Good thing i had good credibility with my friends and family and didnt make a fool out of myself.

After the last sale, i was not happy the way it went so i decided to just take some time off from the business, it was just too much. During this time i started noticing that my upline was not doing business anymore, then i come to find that he was doing fraudulant things and got terminated. So that made me think, oh let me give this one more try, maybe it was my trainer that was messing things up for me.

I was then direct downline to a regional vice president (mind you this guy is making 600k a year). We went out on a couple of appointments and he did not close 1 sale. And for every time we didnt close there was an excuse, "oh they were panzies" , or "they were not the right market". Mind you, i was taking them to people that were well off. So I kept trying and then a few month later I see that my old trainer is back.

What kind of reputable company hires back a person that was once a possible huge liability for them?. At that point I was very upset and realized that thats not where I wanted to be. At this point also ALL my recruits quit because they were also being trained by my orignal upline because I was not trained enough to go out with them. Something was wrong.

Well to make the long story shor,t 18 months later after struggling and actually giving it a try I let it go. I noticed that a lot of people that were actually joining were people that had no other chance in life. Primerica was their last and only chance. I didn't belong in that group. I knew my education was important and Primerica also consistantly in these meeting kept bringing education down and how it "only takes heart" to win no matter your education or background. I can go on and on.

All in all i think like me there are tons of people and the odds of making it in Primerica are 2%. We have more of chance in openning our own business, although primerica insists otherswise. There is probably lots of things i left out, but in a nutshell, it was a good learning experience, would i recommend it? probably not unless you are in the hole and dont mind ripping people off especially with that S.M.A.R.T loan. That is all.

A suggestion for those contacted by PFS

Those scumbags got my information from monster.com, and I found an effective way of dealing with them.

When I went to the meeting/pep rally, I knew something foul was afoot when they wouldn't give any straight answers. I started to walk out, and they actually ahd the nerve to ask me for the names, addresses, and phone numbers of my family, friends, and anyone else who might be "helped" by Primerica. I took the sheet home, and gave them the names, addresses and phone numbers of various violent criminals out on parole, rapists, pedophiles, etc...the most dangerous, random, and sadistic criminals the United States have to offer.

I never heard from Primerica again...imagine that!

Response to Danielle

Danielle,

Primerica is a pyramid-schemed insurance company
designed to benefit only the fat cats at the top of the pyramid. The company is based on selling their garbage term insurance. You will find their promise of a refund to be empty and you would have to put a lot of pressure on Primerica to get your money back.

Is this clear enough?

poor Lonnie ...More drivel below

So Lonnie,
You got to work for a different company and make more money? Small wonder since it is certain you now work for a whole life company, or worse a VUL company. Of course you make more now, the company makes more when you sell that crap. Which means what for the client? Less value for the money. Odd how that works out.
It is impossible to go to just any company for term. Why? Because agents like you are trying to cram whole life and VUL's down the clients throat. You won't give the time of day to someone who wants term. Why? Because your company won't pay you as much. Like 10 times less? Or more.

It just makes me laugh to see how people do "research" on a hate site and make up their minds on the basis of incompetent, yet ubiquitous, imbeciles. Why don't you try to get facts instead of listening to negative fools? You actually make up your mind from this???
Its no wonder the world is falling apart.

Rebuttal to Adam (Thomasville) Primerica is still the pyramid-schemed company as it always was benefitting the fat cats at the top of the pyramid.

First a correction to what Adam has said.

Reread my post as I'm not relating it to Quixtar
(never heard of them before).

Primerica is still the pyramid-schemed company as it always was benefitting the fat cats at the top of the pyramid. If you really want to put your money where your mouth is, Adam, send over documentation to Ripoff Report who'll be glad to post it for you as I'm still insisting that it has yet to be proven that a frontline Primerica agent can make a living off Primerica (by the way $400 a month is nothing to brag about if you started from Oct 1 and your post is dated Oct. 23).

In regards to getting refunds, please review all the posts made on this company and see the difficulty others have in getting a refund. You certainly have the time to do it, Adam, as your post suggests.

As far as attending meetings goes, if others want
to waste their time going to boring, rah rah
meetings, that's their business. All I would say
is you don't have to jump off a cliff to know what the end result would be. Just ask the right
questions to the sponsor and if you get evasive
answers, that should settle the matter right then
and there.

One last comment. I find it very odd that your RVP
doesn't even come down to the business meetings
which should be just the opposite if you want to
grow a business properly by making sure that the
subordinates are trained properly and the operation is running smoothly.

Danielle, Like every company Primerica has its good and bad

Stuart - North Brunswick, New Jersey is not exactly accurate. While there are better alternatives to Primerica, which you will identify as you become more savvy about the financial services industry, Primerica does offer a much needed service to a sector of the population who is otherwise mostly under served.

Like every company Primerica has its good and bad. The main problem with Primerica is that their field force may not be in par with the rest of the industry and many have misconceptions about the opportunity Primerica provides. Otherwise, its an excellent opportunity for any hard working individual who is motivated to make it.

While other companies use the same compensation structure, they employ very much the same tactics to build business. For intance almost every broker asks for referrals from existing customers. Every brokerage manager must recruit to build his or her business. Almost every beginning broker (also known as Financial Advisor, Planner, Registered Rep etc.) seeks business from his natural markets. (Also known as family, friends, ethnic community etc.).

Also, none of the respectable firms provide a salary to their reps. All reps or brokers are on commission much like Primerica.

All the brokerage managers get compensated on the production of their subordinates in one way or the other.

All Securities/Insurance companies will require the agent to pay for all expenses including Series 7, 63, Life/Health licences. It may not be upfront like Primerica does, but on the backend with reduced compensation etc.

This all things you will learn as you get involved with the industry.

Bottom line, dont spend money unless you understand the opportunity. If no other opportunity exists for you to enter this field, by all means take the Primerica route.

What primerica is... You wont understand until you go to a meeting

Primerica is a MLM(multi-level marketing) company, similar to the design of Quixtar (or Amway as you people keep calling it), with very different products and services. They WILL refund your money if you ask for it. And also I got my 199 back PLUS i got 99 back when I took the state exam. And I was trained. I am making money in the company and I am a lowly representative (by the end of the month to be a district leader). Since I have already made over $400 dollars this month I would say that I can make money considering I made 3 sales. By the way, I am in college and putting very little time into it. You are relating it to Quixtar Stuart and you are wrong in that as well, I have friends in that company making much more than you I promise. And they are by no means "the fat cats" at the top of the pyramid. Danielle go to a meeting sometime and decide for yourself. You wont understand until you go to a meeting, and only if it is a good baseshop you visit. I'm sure there are bad RVPs out there, although I have yet to meet one in my area. Good luck to all you "Prime America" haters. My RVP (owns the office I work out of) currently makes over $100k a year and he doesn't even come to the business breifings you guys have been invited to.

response to Matthew - Rancho Cucamonga

Over the weekend a friend of mine attended one of these seminars in Halifax, NS. I took it upon myself to look into this Primerica to see for myself how much truth thier is to this company.
My comment is in response to Matthew - Rancho Cucamonga, California
U.S.A., posted Submitted: 10/18/2006 10:56:00 PM Modified: 10/18/2006 10:56:00 PM
You stated
" QUESTION*** why does crimerica deceptively recruit for "management positions because we are expanding in your area"?

ANSWER*** Personally I have never heard of anyone in Primerica recruit for "MANAGEMENT" positions because there is no such thing. However, we are ALWAYS recruiting in your area because there is a HUGE need for what we do"

Well I just want to let you know that this was the first thing said to my friend about Primerica, that we are looking to expand to your area, and we are looking for you to be the manager to run the new store.

So I will be printing off this comment so she can see the first of many lies that were told to her by a "Primerica Representative" as per your quote above " there is no such thing "

Thanks for making it easy

Karen
Nova Scotia

EDitor's Comment to the Above Mindless Rant:

L - rigby, Idaho,

So you want to label anything that presents another side a "hate site." What are you a Nazi or a Communist? This is a consumer advocate site and you and everyone else should know that Primerica is part of Citigroup. Early this year we announced the connection with Enron and MCI and now the indictment have been handed down.

Read the other postings. By the way, Traveler's Insurance is part of this upline scam. Perhaps you would like to brand the headlines of every major newspaper in America "hate mongering."

ED Magedson
EDitor@ripoffreport.com

THIS DAMON SALESMAN IS THE DIRTIEST

my prime erica guy was this one:
Damon Y.

This guy tried to give me high pressures car sales guy technique. He said the things like "Don't you ever want to be successful in life? Aren't you tired of failing?" and "As a friend, I cannot let you leave this office without doing something better for yourself." I said man you is wack and left with my grandmother.

I work at the Zooper Burger on the east side and he offered me a job while I was working at the register. He gave me his number on a peice of paper from his to-go bag. I called him within a week later when I remembered about him.

He seemed pretty spiked, but I've been working at Z.B. for over 6 years and it's not fun anymore. The recruitment "interview" consisted of mostly hispanics and other colored persons while the "making money trainers" were all white. I don't understand why they did not allow any ethnic peoples to become trainers.

Worst of all my grandmama had to wait there with me and listen to the screaming guy until I left because she was my ride.

I best be going now. Bye

Rebutting Justus, Trying to equate Primerica with other respectable companies won't work

Nice try Justus.

I was expecting someone like you to come along to put forth those lame arguments as you have. Trying
to equate Primerica with other respectable companies won't work as Primerica isn't respectable and I'll say it again, it's the biggest, fraudulent insurance company in existence.

Let's go over what you said. So now I quote:

(1) "Primerica does offer a much needed service to a sector of the population who is otherwise mostly under served." You must be referring to that
overpriced piece of garbage term insurance. In
rebutting Justus, I'm now quoting Peter (who posted 9/13/04):

"Danielle,

Your problem with Primerica goes way beyond over price. To give you a little info about your policy money is not the only issue. Since I don't have an actual copy of your policy to look at I can just give you an overview of the holes in their term life insurance policies.

Your term policy has many problems. The biggest being the conversion privilege in your policy. Since Primerica is the only insurance company out of about 1700 that does not sell universal life or whole life savings polices, you could have a very big problem if you become uninsurable down the road.

Most insurance companies let you trade in your term policy for a "permanent life policy" without showing any proof of medical insurability. Thus you can still have a policy the rest of your life after your term policy expires. Sure the permanent policies cost more but many insurance companies now sell universal life policies with a guaranteed rate up to age 100. Thus your insurance rates can never change.

Primerica only lets you trade in your policy for a yearly renewable policy (rates go up every year, the death benefit stays the same), or a decreasing term policy (rate stays the same but the death benefit goes down every year.

Once your term of your policy is up you are screwed with them. I have had clients that have become uninsurable and now they really value having a some type of policy since they can't get any more insurance. My clients get good options with the term polices I sold them.

Primerica doesn't address un-insurability in their pitches. If you are stuck selling a crappy policy why tell your prospective client it's potential pitfalls.

Another problem is the unisex rate charges they charge everyone. All other companies give females a lower rate then males at the same age. Not these guys...they want to make it so easy for their agents to give a quote and not mess it up, that females pay more with them.

Last if you are paying by automatic checking draft then hold on to your shocks. All insurance companies charge a fee for a monthly checking draft or quarterly and semi annual billings, but Primerica rips you off with a very high monthly check draft fee.

Take your annual billing amount shown on your policy and divide by 12. Now take the amount they draft out of you checking account each month and add all 12 months up together. Big difference! Bingo.... you have been raped.

I can go on and on but I will stop at this last point. If you are uninsurable or need to have estate planning because you have a lot of money(Living Trust Estate, one million or more), then you need a savings type or permanent life insurance policy....not term insurance.

Remember they sell what they own... even if it is not the right policy for you. As far as shopping out new term insurance policy, make sure the policy is guaranteed for the length of the term you are shopping for (10,15,20,25,30 years), and it is from an A+ or A++ company. Also make sure you get all the rates in all the categories from each company ( P+, Preferred, Standard).

Oh guess what.... Primerica does not have a P+ category. Gee I found another problem with them.

Peter - Las Vegas, Nevada
U.S.A."

(2) I see you referring to that overworked word,
"opportunity", in your second paragraph Justus. Can you specify the opportunity? What can you guarantee the frontline slave agent Justus? Do any
Primerica frontline agents succeed in this business? Why not put your money where your mouth
is and send over documentation to Ripoff Report
for your successful frontline agents. Surely you
must have one example for exhibit from this so-called great company.

(3) "While other companies use the same compensation structure, they employ very much the same tactics to build business. For intance almost every broker asks for referrals from existing customers. Every brokerage manager must recruit to build his or her business. Almost every beginning broker (also known as Financial Advisor, Planner, Registered Rep etc.) seeks business from his natural markets. (Also known as family, friends, ethnic community etc.)."

Justus, you're missing the point. Other companies
offer their frontline agents a real opportunity
to earn a decent living through sale of product.
No frontline agent with Primerica has that
opportunity to match that through sale of product
so these agents must recruit (and recruit a lot)
to have any chance to make a decent living. That's
why Primerica is a pyramid-scheme company.

(4) "All Securities/Insurance companies will require the agent to pay for all expenses including Series 7, 63, Life/Health licences. It may not be upfront like Primerica does, but on the backend with reduced compensation etc."

A ridiculous statement on the face of it. Primerica makes you pay for your licensing while
not compensating their frontline agents as the
fat cats at the top of the Primerica pyramid reap
the benefit. Also you're not comparing apples to
apples as other insurance companies will start you
off with orphaned accounts that Primerica won't do.

(5) "If no other opportunity exists for you to enter this field, by all means take the Primerica route."

Nice try Justus. Trying to use phony logic to
make it seem that Primerica must be okay. Again
the Primerica route for a frontline agent is to
enrich the fat cats at the top of this pyramid-
schemed company while you're working your slave
butt off in poverty. So Justus I'm just being
upfront to let those who want to join Primerica
what to expect.

To sum it up Justus's attempt to disguise Primerica as an apple in comparison with other
companies has failed as it will for any Primerica
shill. In fact I wouldn't even call Primerica an
orange in this comparison. More like a lemon.

Employee of parent company Citigroup

I have been reading all the previous entries regarding Prime America. I had no idea about this scam at all. I feel offended of everything these people went thru. Making honest efforts to set up an interview and explore new job options just to be not taken seriously and recruited into some Amway type club. I just had no idea. It makes me not like Citigroup even the more knowing that they are taking part in this activity. I just had no idea at all.

I work in the Auto Finance Division of Arcadia Financial. Parent company of course being Citigroup. Not being the most satisfied of employees, I too have had my resume on Monster.com as well and every time I get more than one email from Prime America. I have not really researched this company much but judging by all the posts on this company it sounds absolutely dreadful. I'm just really discouraged that Citigroup is the parent company to something so rediculous. It is a cult people.

In regards to the previous comments, stating that people chant "Amen" and all that, it's definitely not appropriate. In todays day and age, religion must be kept out of things for legal concerns of course. I think that is obsurd that they are doing this. Amway sucks and I'm sure Prime America sucks just as bad too. I am more than happy that I was informed on this scam and I am definitely not pleased with being an employee of Citigroup if they are propegating this type of business.

Appreciate the info folks.

Please don't give- in your hard worked $200. you'll never see them back!i am a single mother in south central, la-another victim-this is not right!

All of these reports are completely true!! I almost felt as if i was in the same night-mare again! Now my story is sad alone because the person who ripped me off was my mentor, almost like my mother. Her husnand and her (aka Botellos)not just ripped me off. They managed to successfully target at least 10 people(not to mention the ten peoples' peoples recruits-10x3-5=30-50 more people!) whom i was extrely closed to. We all worked together. Unfortunetly, i was the only one that said something to them after realizing it was all bullshit and i had been ripped off! I tried bringing this up to my at the time supervisor(at the time all victim's supervisor) and he said it was not an issue involved with our payroll employer therefor, we must settle this somewhere else. I felt lack of support from supervisor and i was so upset because i felt the botellos had alot of favoritizime because if the story had involved someone else, they or i would of have been fired since it's violating our company's code. Anyways i left my former employer, upset and extremely angry. To the point, i became sick. i was diagnosed with severe depression, ulcer, and loss of appetite and social gather. I cannot stand hearing about all these innocent people, get ripped off! any person who join primerica are potential editors of this site, unless you are the one who is making the money or a family member who don't know shit about what your relative is really doing!

Primerica's "20 minute" presentation!!!!

A mother of one of the girls in my daughters girl scout troup recently told me she'd taken a new job in "financial planning". The long and short of it was she asked if she could bring her "trainer" to our home one evening for a "20 minute" presentation in which we would not be asked to buy anything. I agreed, and she and her trainer came to our home just last week (10/20/04).

I think it's first important to point out, that before the presentation ever began, I was recruited by the trainer! Ha ha ha. She didn't even know me for 5 minutes and already I had a job as a Manager. And that was even after I told her I worked with my husband at his own privately owned company! Okay but anyway....

Now please note that my friend from the girl scout troup didn't end up speaking at all, but rather observing. I have too much respect for her to have posted on here had she have done the talking.......but she didn't.....so here goes....

Not at any time during the entire (over an hour long) presentation did I hear even one specific type of service Primerica offered. I was told in the beginning about the four steps to becomming financially wealthy...but nothing after...just a bunch of bologna. I heard a lot of vague wishy washy "we want to help the "middle income families" blah blah blah. My husband was suspicious of this presentation long before it started, and of all people in the world who DON'T NEED FINANCIAL GUIDANCE OR PLANNING - - it's him!!! He quickly took the bull by the horns at this point and basically told the trainer, as politely as possible so as not to offend our friend we were trying to help out, that he basically thought she was part of a
scheme in which her own company worked in direct contradiction with itself. Citicorp/Citibank loves to give people credit and get them so far into debt that they cant see which way is up. What a mockery for them to develop this so called "arm" of their company that then goes after the poor people they've largely helped create their debt, to counsel them on their debt and help them get out of debt!!! With help like that, I guess we don't need enemies right?

I'm glad I stumbled upon this page because I'm going to warn my friend before too much of her time is wasted. She's far too intelligent and far too sweet of a person to be pulled into such nonsense. Her time is much more valuable than this!! And by the way....she too has a degree (a real degree!) and I'm sorry, but anyone with a degree in something that requires intellect - - (in something other than "fluff-101" obtained at a local university just so you can say "I have my BA"...)would be very unwise to waste their schooling and training and salary potential on a company this lame! I think that first person who started this whole posting was smart!! Very smart!! Obviously a "truly" educated person! Thank goodness they are still around.....

I won't be back to read any rebuttals to what I've said. I don't care what comes from this posting. Good, bad or indifferent. From what I've read thus far, by the "owners" of all people, it's pretty apparent to me what they are about....their professionalism, or lack there of...especially that which is publicly viewed.....pretty much speaks for Primerica in a nutshell. If the "owners" are going to post rebuttals such as the ones posted here basically telling anyone off they didn't agree with; what can be said of the services they claim to offer? Nothing!!!!

As a girl scout leader, I'm hoping one of the owners of the company is not who she appears to be. That would be a disgrace.

My take on Primerica

Primerica is more complicated to understand than most financial companies. Their training is unorthodox, allbeit neither bad or wrong. You get to interact with many people from many companies in the financial services buisness, and I've met many Primerica Reps and I have been impressed with their zeal and their passion. There are many hard-workers in that company. The main problem is that they don't employ many full-time professionals they employ a lot of part-time folks. Now I have no doubt that nearly everyone in their organization wants to help people. The problem is that they don't have the tools, training, and education to do so. Financial advising is not the same as selling Tupperware or Avon. Almost anytime you place life insurance with a family is a good thing. Here are my problems with Primerica:
1. How can a Primerica Rep immediatelly recruit others to work under them? They haven't been trained or educated? How are you going to do right by your friends, family, and neighbors if you don't know what you're selling?
2. If your target market is 25-45 with families, why don't you sell disability insurance? The odds are 2:1 that someone becomes disabled rather than die.

3. If your target market is 25-45 low-income why does your company sell long term care? I've talked to Primerica reps and they don't do estate planning, so why would you sell long term care to seniors without being able to place whole-life insurance for burial expenses or whatever else their heirs may have.
4. To say term insurance is always the best is as silly as a company like Northwestern Mutual saying that whole life is always the best. There is a different solution for every situation. Primerica doesn't give their agents the tools to solve those problems.
5. Most of the time Primerica Reps are not planners, they are product peddlers. Now almost anytime you place life insurance with a family its a good thing, but Primerica isn't doing comprehensive planning and covering all the bases, and I feel that's irresponsible if you're going to put yourself out there as a financial professional.

6. Financial advisors selling mortgages? That is nonsense. What are you trying to accomplish by selling mortgages, you can refinance through a bank. People aren't asking you to be their banker, they want some help with their insurance, investemnts, and estate planning. At least that's what I find.

If you are serious about being a financial advisor, I'm not saying Primerica is a bad place to start, but be careful about what you do for people, because you can create more problems than solutions. This is a serious business and while Primerica Reps may be as committed as anyone else out there, they don't have the education, training, or products to truely do comprehensive planning, and that's dangerous both to the client and Primerica Reps when they find out what they've done to their friends and family.

If some Primerica Reps are truely interested in being a financial advisor, I'd like them to read about Joe Jordan at Met Life or John McTigue at Northwestern Mutual, Wayne Cotton, or Mitch Anthony. It will open your eyes. No other company generates this level of controversy. New York Life, AFLAC, Ameriprise, Mutual of Omaha, Northwestern Mutual, Banker's Life, Met Life, American General, A.G. Edwards, Piper Jaffrey, Edward Jones, American Family, Thrivant, none of them have so many claims of fraud and misconduct. Primerica is not the place for people serious about being financial advisors. I'd look to their recruiting. They don't want someone that has worked at any of the companies above. Why wouldn't an insurance and financial services company want to recruit people with experience? Because they can't be exploited.

Why does Primerica try to recruit HEREW? RipOffReport.com, helping the economy that our Govt screwed up...

The gall amazes me, these idiots with Primerica read all this bad info on them, and are so brainwashed that they do not reqister it and try to recruite confused people here. The the guy who earlier sayd he didnt know what Primerica was (then the agent tried to recruit him), my response is HAVE YOU READ ANYTHING HERE? They steal money from hard working people with their zippers undone and a big smile on their face.

I was called by a "recruiter" today and have seen so many life insurance scams on the net that I was waiting for one or 30 to call me, they troll monster careerbuilder, etc. IF YOU DO NOT APPLY FOR A JOB AND SOMEONE CALLS YOU, BUYER BEWARE, AND DO NOT COMPLAIN IF YOU ARE DUMB ANOUGH TO GIVE THEM MONEY! They only continue to do it because they know theres idiots out there who will pay, and a lot of em at that. While on the phone with the guy I came to this site, typed in Primerica and found this page, one of the largest on the site. he asked if Ive heard of Primerica or Citibank, I told him I did and to shove it.

Damn I love this site! This site has saved me over 200 miles of driving and counting in 2 months! RipOffReport.com, helping the economy that our Govt screwed up...

WELCOME TO AMERICA, everyone is trying to scam, and make you promises. People words are as useful as a 250 dollar bill.....Find out on your own!!!!!!

First off, I'm 3/4 way into completing my degree in accounting/financing management so I kinda know a little on how money works.

I went through one of Primerca's meeting/rally/cult functions whatever you wanna call them last night.

I sat there with an open mind....The regional rep was boasting how he's saving a 100K a month and well on his way to becoming a billion, playing golf and this and that.

I must admit that rally would get anyone's hopes up. It didn't matter one way or another to me because November my business stands up and I'm going to make it one way or the other.

I was a little concerned when I was given these 3 figures and they threw the "rule of 72" on me like a rookie.

They threw these a quick investment figure out. They used 3 percent, 6 percent and 12 percent intrest rate of return. They used simple logic to show the crowd that people save money and a bank and get a 3 percent intrest rate while they can let Primerica invest for them at a 12 percent rate and make them millions.

I was in awe, 12 percent in todays market. Makes you wanna jump up and threw money at these people. I wasn't swayed by the presentation, 12 percent today is like finding a four leaf clover in the middle of the Sahara desert in June.

It was also strange to me cause the person that invited me told me I need to bring her a list of 25 people I know. I don't even know 10 people, let alone 25. And out of those 10, 2 of them live in New York and none of them would step foot in a Primerica office.

But instead of hussing and fussing over getting my family invovled, I'm going to go with it to see what it can do for me, and if the Insurance or Debt Consolidation can help anyone around me (which they really need it) I see nothing wrong with it.

Like many people say "Primerica isn't for everyone one", like the US Military, some love it, some hate it and get out and some get by.

My personal issue is, I have a problem spending money I don't have (like most Americans). The only way to get even is to get a second Job, Credit counseling/Debt Consolidation or own a business.

To me Primerica seems to offer me two things...I'll be able to use some of their products to get even and make some part-time cash along the way.
As I stated before, Primerica isn't for everyone.
ME, I'm a hungry business-minded aggressive person looking to make all the money I possibly can in life. If someone is willing to buy, I'm going to sell or someone else will. Hey, I'm by no means Progressive auto insurance....I'm selling my Apple for 10 bucks a piece, Joe Schmo is selling his for 5.50, I'm not going to refer him anywhere. I'll keep a straight face and put the $10 in the cash register......

Wake up PEOPLE, this is Business 101.
If its somehow near illegal but now quite smoke and mirror type pyramid scheme that you can get away with...and NO GOVERNMENT OFFICE HAS SHUT THEM DOWN........YOUR GOAL IS TO BE AT THE TOP. Be a "Fat Cat". Sitting on your face and whinning and complaining about "I'm not getting into it, Its illegal, Pyramid, blah blah blah" won't get you that nice house your wife keeps complaining about or pay for your kid tuition (which I have neither).

THIS IS AMERICA, throw all that ethics garbage out the window...this land is a sea of Shark and Menow, I seriously don't think the People at Wal-mart are aching over the NUMEROUS Mom and Pop stores they put out of business just to make a buck. My business logic is not screwed, it's reality...and if you have something negative about that comment, you either working a 9-5 and dream of owning a rightoues business, or are barely getting by with your biz because of your "ethics".

I've lost over $20,000 in the stock market, $8,000 in gambling so I'm thinking $199 dollars doesn't seem that much to bellyache over. Save your $199 and in 5 years get $215 back.....take a risk and who knows!

M.
"keepin' it real"

ps I'm not associated with Primerica yet, but I'm planning to try it out and get back with you all.

My own experience with the liers of Primerica

I jwas just recently "cold" called for an "awesome job offer" because some lady liked what she saw on my resume that was posted on Monster.com. Initially I was stoked. She wanted to set up an interview the following day, and could not stop exclaiming how interested they were for me to start working for their company. Since I had only had my resume up for about two days I was stoked to have already gotten a call.

This lady said that I should show up fifteen minutes early so she can meet me before the interview and show me around the office. Then we would have a "1 on 1 interview." I repeat, she said "1 on 1 interview." She specifically told me that it wasn't going to be a group thing with 15-20 other people there.

However, as soon as I walked through the door i was astounded at the numbers of individuals in the office and how everyone was scrambling around. I was immediately thrown a name tag and told to sit and wait for the person I initially talked to. A bubbly, energetic women came into the lobby and immediately grabbed me up and tossed me into a room with about 30 other people and told me to start filling out paper work. The paper work included my level of interest in the company and the back had space for about 6 referrences! Needless to say I left that part blank. Then I was put through a grueling 1 hour presentation that really gave me no single idea what I would be doing for the company. But they did say "you won't be selling anything."

Also, throughout the ENTIRE meeting there was this lady who would not stop chanting a vocal response to every sentence the presenter spouted off. I started to wonder why the so called "RVP" didn't tell her to either shut the hell up, or leave, because it was supposed to be, what I thought, a proffessional atmosphere.

As soon as that HUGE waste of time was over the room was bombarded by about 26 recruiters all scrambling to get their hands on each of the people sitting in this room. Now did I get my "1 on 1" interview like I was promised. HECK NO! I got a 5 minute talk, while paperwork was shoved in my face, all the while 30 other people are yelling and talking over each other right next to me. Not only that, I was told to bring a copy of my resume...but why? She didn't even want to see it, she just kept telling me how she "knows" I would do well with their company. Feeling totally pressured, and nervous about what I was getting myself into, I filled out all the papers and went home. Yah...so much for my "1 on 1" interview. Since I am a full time college student and had a Calculus mid-term the following day, I totally felt cheated out of two hours of my life.

As soon as I got home I started going through all the contractural agreements. Basically everything they told us we were going to be doing, was all LIES! I'm supposed to have another "interview" today, which I will cancel, then call my bank to cancel the charge they might make to my card. They don't want to hire me, they want to sell me something, their so called "business opportunity." Needless to say, I will not be buying, nor selling any of primerica's services for the rest of my life.

Add me to the list of recruited.

I posted my resume on an online site a few days ago. The next day I recieved a phone call from Chris H. He said my resume had crossed his desk and he wanted me to come to his office to interview for the position of an Office Manager. He said that they wanted people with sales and administrative experience, which I have, and management experience is prefered, which I don't really have. He continued on to say that my military (1 year as a personellist) qualified as management. So, needless to say, I was very excited. 22 years old, no degree, currently working at Wal-Mart as an hourly associate. Day 1 in my search for a real job and I get this offer!

When I got the the building, I was impressed. When I went into the suite, not so much. An old, bulky receptionists desk with some cheesy fake flowers. Cheap waiting room chairs, and the "motivational" art work.

A couple men came out but neither were my recruiter. After about 5 minutes, Chris came out and introduced himself. We went into a training room with white, scuffed walls, more motivational art work and a simple round table with more cheap chairs. I had updated my resume and brought it with me to the interview. When I handed it to him, he put it to the side and said they didn't care much about resumes. Experience didn't matter. They would train their managers to be how they wanted.

He went through the positions. The Sales Rep. 10-30k/year, the Manager/Leader (he said Manager sounds negative, so they call them leaders for moral purposes) 50-100k/year. Owner/Manager (He said you can be offered to own your office in 6 months to a couple years, depending on how well you do) 100-200k/year. Regional VP 500+k/year. Red flags started to go up at this point.

The rest of the "interview" was him telling me about the company. Not much about me. At the end he said I'd need to come back to meet the RVP as he is the one that makes the final decision on who is hired. I went to that tonight. I met the man alright, but I barely spoke to him. It was a group meeting that felt more like a pitch for clientele than a job interview. It was an hour of being told MORE about the company and being asked nothing about me. I was in a class with a free-lance photographer, a college student, a girl who looks like she just grad'd high school and a few others I didn't hear speak of their current situation.

Near the end they told us about the $199 fee we had to pay to be licensed. They said it was a $500 license that Primerica pays the rest for and that, if hired, there are reimbursement opportunities.

I was told at the end to come back yet again to talk to the RVP, at which point I will walk in with this long list of complaints printed out and ask for an explination. The response should be worth the time it takes me to get there and back home.

Lance is very good at spinning tales. ..Primerica is still the biggest

Here it is in this posting, he says and I quote "We are NOT a client of Preimerica." Now I quote from another of Lance's posting "I am a premerica associate and proud of it." so in the first post Lance makes it seem that his and his family aren't directly involved with Primerica and his other post indicates he's a Primerica agent.

Apparently Lance believes in the miracle that
Primerica somehow or other helped him lose 11 pounds in two months and acquired two years college education within the same two month period (did Lance get a two-year degree for this?). My response simply is whether Lance can send over documentation to back up what he says about his family being helped out by Primerica, otherwise he's still the couch potato that he says he was since he's more talk than action.

I repeat that Primerica is still the biggest
fraudulent insurance company around designed to
benefit the fat cats at the top of the pyramid.
To date no documentation has been put forth to
Ripoff Report to prove that they have even one successful frontline agent.

PS Lance, regarding your two-year college education, may I suggest a refresher as your
spelling and grammar are atrocious, WHAT A SHAME!

What a shame

My sister in law died at the age 31 with her 2 year old boy jumping up and down on the couch next to her. My wife and I adopted him immediatly because his father a young man himself lives to far away and is to broke working his poor paying dead end job to properly over see his child. Because of this situation the unfortunate child lost his mother AND father. These typical hypocrits slam and slander Primerica, but what if Primerica where there for them before this happend? And gave them the proper financial knowledge and coverage they really needed. The father would have recieved his death benefit and been able to raise his boy under his wings. Funny a large amount of folks have this much needed insurance and some dont. But the companys that sell this insurance are not wrong. They dont also help familys learn the money game. So to all of you making these ignorant assumptions, there are thousands of other life insurance companys your forgetting to mention. I have this 2 year old boys life in my hands now. Would you agree he would be better off and happier with his father? I am sure he now at the age of 8 would be saddend and disagree with all of you. WHAT A SHAME !

Now to mention my financial situation. My wife and I sat down with a Primerica assoc. one evening. And to our suprise we learned my biggest peeve was answered by this financial superstar. He showed us away to pay off our mortgage 15 years in advance without changing mortgage companys and or nothing more simple then knowledge of the mortgage industry we did not know (oh NO ! not sharing that with any of you sobs knocking this company) You want to find out how? oppologize to your primerica rep, wear a wig !, change your name !. What ever it takes. Get back with them and learn the rules of the money game. Mean while im taking my $52,000 he saved us on our mortgage and investing it into my childrens college fund ( oh wait! premerica is owned by a fortune 500 investing company on the nyse )Smith and Barney. Like to see any of you shread that companys credibilty. Ok now that i have brought to your attention. My children would like to thank you primerica, because of you they have a brighter future. If i had known about primerica before my sister inlaw passed and had read this crap before meeting that wonderfull man. These mentioned situations would have been disolved before they happend. WHAT A SHAME !

Now i would like to share with you little things none of you typically see this company also offers familys. ( I dont think primerica understands they do this to familys also ) I am an over wieght man in my 30's. Strictly due to the fact I am a couch potato and my wife is a remarkable cook. Since involved with primerica ( yes i am investigating the company's powerfull knowledge on personal finances by attending these meetings ) They have motivated me in a way I cannot describe. They have got me off the couch and involving me and my family in our finances when in fact we were doomed to self distruct in the future. Well needless to say 11 lbs lighter and 2 yrs of college smarter all rapped up in just 2 months. Wish i had met Primerica years ago. WHAT A SHAME !

Now let me really kick you in the rear with something you obviously have not relized. We are NOT a client of Preimerica. Due to the fact my Grandparents have substancial amounts of monies to look after there great grand children if the worst were to happen to any of there children. During our FNA (financial needs analysis) our primerica assoc. relized we were covered enough under our family we did not need life insurance. But did he stop and walk out on us? NO he did not. He continued to show us ways to manage our money and help us financally. I dont see any other insurance companys doing that. Walk in there office and they see you dont need life insurance, you'll hear " don't let the door hit you were the good lord split you " WHAT A SHAME !

CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.

If you feel i have changed your wrongfull feelings towards Primerica, please feel free to drop me a line. Ill try to see if i can set you up with an associate in your area. ( that is possible because they are the worlds largest financial giant in the industry ) On the subject bar please only put PRIMERICA. Hell if im opening a virus. And if sent one i will send back 2 fold. If the subject does not read PRIMERICA i will not open it. Thank you !

Thanx for all the posts on this company. CK & Associates and Primerica are both scams.

I interviewed and must express that the complaints on this website are for real. CK & Associates and Primerica are both scams. I want that full report that The Fraud Chick has to offer. Someone email me it if you've found it?

Primerica is for some...but not all

I have read and heard a lot about the wrong Primerica does and whatnot. I just don't understand if it's the actual company that people are upset with or some of the agents that may be giving Primerica a bad reputation. I don't think I have to remind some of you that there is bad in all things unfortunately and Primerica is no exception.

I would like to start off by saying yes, I am a representative with Primerica. My goal, and only goal is to assist families and individuals in protecting themselves from a finanical disaster. How many of you reading this right now are living paycheck to paycheck? If you answered yes, then you are just one mishap, germ, disease or accident from losing everything you have worked hard to obtain. That's where Primerica comes in.

Primerica's agents are in the business of helping people save money, make money and get out of debt. Of course, not every situation is the same. I don't recall ever giving families the exact same advise when it came to their finances.

I understand there are agents out there that will use deceptive tactics to engage individuals and to have them sign up for the business. I, for one, am not one of them. When I approach an individual, I just simply ask them if they are interested in making money using their spare time? If they are, I will set an appointment with them and will expressly state that this is not a job, but an opportunity for them to go into business for themselves, which is exactly what Primerica offers. If they are still interested at that point, I will continue to set the appointment and proceed accordingly.

Some individuals feel that Primerica offers them a job. They don't. True, some of the agents are a little "wierd", but that's what sets them apart from everyone else. You have to be a litle wierd to succeed in this business. The majority of us are living paycheck to paycheck and have been taught that this is the normal. It's normal to be a slave to your mortgage. It's normal to be a slave to your car payment. It's normal to be a slave to your credit card bills. It's normal to dedicate countless hours to a job where in reality, your job is to make someone else rich. Does anyone see something wrong with that picture?
Doesn't anyone feel they deserve better? Doesn't anyone feel their family deserves better? If you answer no, why not?

I've gone to school. I've received my degree. I have what I thought was my ideal career. What I don't have is time to sepnd with my wife and 4 children. What I don't have is freedom to take time off work without having to request it off and risk not being approved for it. What I don't have is the ability to travel and enjoy life. What I don't have is the ability to save properly for my retirement because my montly pay goes to my ridiculous rent and bills. Are you in that same situation? How does it make you feel? When does the madness end? If you work a job, it doesn't. Some of you may say that there are a lot of people making really good money at their jobs. Show me someone making good money at their job and I'll show you someone working too many hours, someone who is missing time with their family, and someone who is looking for a change.

First you have to hear and accept the truth. The truth is that the system that we work in doesn't work for us. We work in a systme that limits our hours of working, pays us by the title of the position and not the person, gives us just enough money to pay our bills and very little else.

Second, you have to ask yourself "is this what I want"? If yes, then good luck to you. Because chances are you will work until you die. If your answer is no, then there is another question you have to ask yourself..."what am I going to do about it"? For some, this is an easy revelation. For others, not so easy. You see, you have to respect business owners because they decided not to be normal. The decided to take a risk, because they believed in themselves, they believed in the reward, they understood the needs of their family, and they stared the fear of failure in the face and said "bring it on".

Most successful business owners are Ivey League drop outs or don't have a college degree. The only things you need to be a successful business owner is the will to stand and push forward when everything else is pulling you back. Be determined. Be enthusiastic. Be encouraged to succeed. Don't be afraid to win because you're afraid to lose. My basketball coach once said "a shot not taken is worse than taking a shot, because if you at least take a shot, you have a 50% chance of making it, rather than limiting yourself to no chance by not taking the risk". Doesn't a 50% chance sound better than zero?

Here is my bottom line. Don't let the reps at Primerica steal from you what the company really offers. Yes, there's a lot of chanting. Yes, there's a lot of cheering. But it's not the company doing that.

This business is for individuals who are ready to accomplish more than what is being offered to them right now. Someone posted that if this business was so great, why isn't everyone doing it? Here is my answer...what is stopping each and everyone of you from taking a risk to improve your situation?

Are you going to let comfort and fear rob you?

Jealousy, Jealousy, Jealousy

It sounds to me that there are alot of college grads out there that are a little jealous that Primerica gives highschool graduates or average ordinary everyday people out in the real world struggling, the opportunnity to make more money than they have the ability to make! Sorry people,I know it took alot of hard work to pay for those degrees but if you would put as much time into your own future as you put on this site bashing Primerica, I think you would get those school loans payed off alot sooner! Ok lets get back to work now before the boss catches us......Oh thats right, I dont have a boss...I work when I want..Set my own hours. Maybe its because I have a business system that makes me money even if I'm not there. Good Luck at the 9 to 5.

Just Facts,, It scares me how much Primerica is able to brain wash other wise itelligent people. Primerica recruits between 10-20,000 reps per month.

Here are some FACTS that I got off of a friends Call Atlanta software program that Primerica charges its Reps from $25 to $125 per month for a subscription!

Primerica recruits between 10-20,000 reps per month. That's 120-240,000 reps per year. Primerica's own website estimates their field force between 100-150,000 people. That's over a 100% turn over per year!

Now out of the 2 Million people that Primerica has recruited in the last 10 years only 1500 people make over $100,000 per year? That makes the other 1,998,500 people lazy or losers?

Also I printed out the leaders bullitens for all of the states and put it into a spreadsheet. Less than 20,000 people made more than $1000 last month! That's $12,000 per year and includes the 1500 on top of the pyramid!

Even Primerica's own CEO states that most Reps only do 3-4 sales PER YEAR! He says that you have to keep them coming and keep them going. Just like a revolving door.

Do Your Own Due Dilligence Before Spending Your $199. You're better off working at the 7-11!

Complaints vs Compliments

Ok. I can see all these complaints here about the methods that Primerica uses ,
but not the company itself: you can't, the company is too well founded in ,yes, it's
mother company Citygroup. All I hear is "thank God I didn't fall for that", or
"Primerica is full of it because it hires inexperienced people". Here's my little story--

I got involved with Primerica in 2001 through my aunt. A Primerica rep had peaked her interest in maybe working for Primerica, and the rep had asked that she attend a meeting. She still being skeptical, invited me to go with her. Me being even more skeptical agreed to attend the meeting. After about TWO MONTHS of watching how it all worked (having no previous
experience in this particular field), I was interested in giving it a try. I gave them my $199 that covered the application and my other expenses.

My aunt who had suggested I go , however, was loosing interest feeling that she "would not make a good salesman".

Then we discovered that the rep that had come to us originally was under question by Primerica

for fraudulent activities which resulted in his termination. So this made her stop going
to meeting altogether which stopped me from going seeing as at the time she was my means of transport to the meetings. I contact Primerica office back and told them up front that I was not able to attend the meetings anymore, they understood and were nice enough.A couple of weeks later I GOT A $199 CHECK IN THE MAIL FROM PRIMERICA ,refunding methat which I had paid them, so in the end my initial experience with this company cost me nothing.

Seeing as I had just moved here (Arizona), it wasn't till about a year later that I was on my feet and had the time and means of transportation. Now I've been back with Primerica for a couple of months and making only a couple thousand a month at my day job, now I'm also putting in about 2 to 3 hours a week into primerica AND IT HAS DOUBLED MY INCOME going on tripling it and that's just me , I've yet to recruit anyone yet that would provide me with a percentage of their earnings.

Primerica does suggest that you focus on recruiting when you are new so that you have a group of people,hopefully people you know like friends or family to go training meeting with. This way you keep each other motivated and I seems to work. So it's not "Don't concentrate on financing and helping clients just recruit others", it's actually more like " Seeing as you're new in the business , bring others in that can come, to class with you and learn about finances and helping clients, WITH YOU". This opens up these opportunities for others

and helps you in the end with extra in come, being a new recruiter.

Bottom line is that yes it all seems farfetched , yes they do mostly tell you the up side in the recruit meeting, yes the methods they use are unorthodox, BUT IT WORKS. The down side being that it does take time. I will be honest with you, if I had been lied to and screwed over by Primerica after the effort I have put into it, both myself and the company would be involved in a serious lawsuit. OK? Any other questions? comments? Some of the criticizing comments that I've read here are actually constructive criticism, but some of the others are not practical ,for instance a previous statement that seemed to portray an orientation meeting like a cult based on cheering and "AMENS" or whatever.This is obviously coming from someone who has never enjoyed the benefits of working for this company.These comments are made by intelligent and competent people, but these comments are lacking logic and open "minded-ness"

Also , my seeing the company firing a rep for fraudulent activity actually impressed me as much and anything else, because I wanted to come into this company to help others with their debt and open a few financial doors for others and make money of course ; however illegal and fraudulent activities will not be tolerated by me.

Thanks

Ripoff Indeed~~ A L Williams all over again.!!!

I was just contacted by my son-in-law. He wants to come with the first training presentation to me. When I heard someone at his work was letting him IN on this investment, MLM, insurance thing, I immediately thought of my early days in insurance sales and the A L Williams "buy term and invest the rest" scandal that was going on back in the 80's. So what do I do when I hear this today,.....? I looked up A L Williams and guess what? Primerica bought A L Williams in 1989. There were so many scandals and lawsuits going on around that bunch of REPLACEMENT and RECRUITMENT specialists,... all it was was a plan to cause the greater percentage to cough up the leads of their friends and relatives and let the newly recruited paying member flounder while the others up the pyramid flourished in the commission percentages. Oh yeah! It's A L Williams all over again.

Emotional Levels

I am familiar with the company in question and have attended the sessions mentioned in the original article. I have watched a friend of mine humiliate himself by thinking that his career with this organization made him informed on financial services, only to be told by a more established, reputable institution that he was completely ignorant.

The main thing I noticed was that any questioning of his company's ethics or reputation was met with extreme defensiveness and hostility, but no concrete answers. I cannot speak for every associate with this company, but in my experience, the behaviour of the employees is "cultlike" and overly emotional when any aspect of the company is questioned. If I went to an established bank and questioned its policies and the associate responded in any such manner, I would quickly be out the door.

a BIG Thanx to all

I just want to say a BIG Thank You to all Danielle and those others who have posted their experience with Priemerica. I resently posted my resume on Monster.com and have just began my new career search.

I too have sought my education because I wanted to better my self and increase my income levels. In the past, I was a single parent and got caught up in one of these network marketing businesses. I vowed never again.

They pull people in and never really deliver on want the say. I personally am very protective of the warm market for just this reason.

For those of you who are so supportive of Primermica I truely hope you do not get burned like so many in the past have of these type of organizations. Do a little research of past network marketing organziations not very many stay around because the organizations foundations are not built on strong business and ethical principals.

Out $199, despite my HUGE protests, got involved in Primerica on the advice of a friend

My sister, despite my HUGE protests, got involved in Primerica on the advice of a friend. Now, after almost 2 months and one big headache, she's seeing it my way. The only problem??? She's out the $199 she paid into it. I know nothing about Primerica, nor do I care to, but I would like to know how she can get her money back. Her boyfriend got involved the same time she did and when he requested his money back, they denied him. DENIED HIM!!!! Now, they're stuck. This company has turned out to be everything I feared it would be and my naive 20 year old sister has lost hard earned money. I can't tell you how furious I am that you would target struggling kids and trick them into buying $200 of WORTHLESSNESS!!! Help me out here. Prove that you have at least a little integrity. Get this kid her money back.

Do your research

All:

First of all, I would like to point out that I am an associate of PFS, so for those of you who would discount me as a "cultist" or whatever, please move on to the next comment, as you will probably have nothing intelligent to say in regards to this posting.

It took me nearly a year to decide to come on board with PFS, and I can't say that I'm regretting it. Before I signed on, I was allowed to attend all training as though I were already an associate. Much of what the original posting stated is somewhat true... There is a lot of "Amen" being tossed around (being not so religious myself, I find this cumbersome at times) and heavy emphasis on recruiting. However, I knew this BEFORE I signed on. I took my time and learned about the company. I understood what it was about and what the potential risks are. If you look at the $199.00 fee, it really isn't that much at all. I mean, most of it goes to the state (licensure fees and appointment fees). In some states, such as California, state fees take up more than this nominal $199.00 fee, and the company pays the rest. Very little of this money, if any at all, is seen by the company.

There are probably those of you who have felt pressured by an associate of PFS, and for that I am sorry. I handle my business by making sure that both my clients and prospective partners are well informed. Not all associates are so unscrupulous as to try to push you into the line of fire without you being comfortable about it. Instead of calling the company a fraud, like so many of you do, why not take the time to learn about it, and then make your decision. If someone is pushing too hard for you, then pop smoke and move out.

I'm not here to tell you that you will be converted when you study up, or that anything glorious will happen for you, but I do feel that if you ask most office heads if you can sit in on their training before you sign on they will be happy to accomodate this and allow you to learn about it, as was the case with me. If after you attend some of the training you aren't interested, then by all means, go back to work and continue doing what you've been doing. I'm not here to say that what I'm doing is better than what you're doing, because I am not aware of your particular situation.. This just seemed to be a fit for me when the "opportunity" knocked at my door. Maybe it's not for you, but people do make it work and many that I know do so without questionable practices. If in the course of my time with PFS I find it to not be the right fit, it won't be because I was ripped off. And if any of you out there feel that you were ripped off, remember that it's your money to make the initial investment....don't part with it until you are entirely comfortable with what you're contributing to..study up.. because it all boils down to personal responsibility... you are responsible if you don't study. I don't hide things from my recruits, and I won't even allow them to sign on immediately following their first exposure.

Thank you all for your time.

Why all the noise?

I read these posts and find them humorous, at best.
One group calls another Crimerica while others are incessantly quoting rates of their company versus another and, of course, Primerica people extolling that " we are full service ". I still don't understand how full service applies to term insurance. You write it and that is it. There is no addeed value. Cost is cost...buy the most inexpensive.

But all this is for naught anyway, as 39% of all term insurance will be sold over the Internet directly by companies in 2006. Some projections, whether highly accurate or not, estimate 85% of all term will be sold directly over the Internet and banks by 2010.

So, essentially term insurance agents and stagecoach drivers will have a lot of time to talk to each other.

Whole life, Uinversal Life and Variable life will not suffer the same fate, as these products are still a little too complex for the general public to buy over the Internet.

When something is a little confusing to a person, then they want the assurance of sitting and talking with someone.

Those selling term...simplified the market. They did such a good job that they will be out of a job.

But good luck to all wherever you land.

Dr. Francis John Maguire

Stuart, welcome to the real world

Stuart,
I don't know how many home parties or shows you have been to for these different companies, but the fact is, yes Mary Kay, Pampered Chef and the rest do use a multi-level structure to build their businesses. I have been asked to be a Mary Kay consultant, a Pampered Chef consultant, a Candlelite consultant, and a Park Lane jewelry consultant. These people all get commissions off the sales that their downlines make. PFS is the same way. If I sell a product, I make money and so does my upline. When I sold jewelry, I made money and so did my upline. Some of the consultants may not be as agressive at recruiting as others, but it is the same way in PFS. I know some people that serve their clients, sell products, and don't do any recruiting. I could recruit all day long, but if my downline doesn't sell any products, I'm not going to making any money from my recruiting either. I'm simplying saying, MLM is a businss model and it works. Yes it is pyramidal in structure, but have you looked at the organizational chart for your employer lately? What shape do you see? Who makes the most money on that chart? Hmm? Maybe the President of your employer doesn't get direct commissions off of you, but guess what? They're still making the big bucks because you come to work and put in your 40-60 every week. Welcome to the real world.

Rebutting Mark (Seaside)

Quoting:

"Instead of calling the company a fraud, like so many of you do, why not take the time to learn about it, and then make your decision. If someone is pushing too hard for you, then pop smoke and move out." We already have learned about it and tried it so we're warning others that Primerica is one big fraud wrapped around a fraudulent pyramid scheme.

"...but I do feel that if you ask most office heads if you can sit in on their training before you sign on they will be happy to accomodate this and allow you to learn about it, as was the case with me." You're already uncomfortable with the rah-rah meetings shouting hallejuhah and "Amen."

"It took me nearly a year to decide to come on board with PFS, and I can't say that I'm regretting it." Why did it take you so long to make up your mind? Do you know what you are really
risking? Have you thoroughly read all the reports
on Ripoff Reports? What do you hope to get out of
Primerica?

Why not tell us what Primerica has done for you so far. How long have you been with them? What is your title? What are your goals and how close are you? Can you document any achievements on Ripoff Report?

Time is money and if anybody out there wants to waste their time attending Primerica's rah-rah meetings, they're welcome to do so. Mark is simply another unwitting shill for Primerica who doesn't seem to get it, no matter what's posted here on Ripoff Report. When Mark wakes up one day, I hope he'll benefit then.

There is always a silver lining

This is the first time that I have ever written to one of these. I worked as a PFS Regional Leader for 2 years while I was finishing my degree in Buisness Management. While there are flaws with the PFS model, there are a few things that I am thankful for as well.

I worked hard as a Primerican. I got promotions and yes, even recruited people. The biggest problem that I had was that they pay so little, and every agent looses a portion of his/her income due to chargebacks. Over a 2 year period I don't think that I made over $15,000 total. Regardless of that and any other problems I had, I did get something extremely valuable out of my experience, and that was that it gave me an environment in which I could relatively easily and inexpensively obtain my life, and securities. Unfortunetly I had to obtain my Real Estate license on my own due to the fact that Primerica uses an umbrella license and individuals are not required to obtain a Real Estate License to do loans through them (interesting).

I recently left that captive situation. We can discuss that later, but suffice it to say that it is foolish to put your family in jeopardy by placing yourself in a captive situation in the finacial services industry. That is the marketing design of years past and is quickly being phased out, (one of the reasons that Primerica has experienced such a dramatic drop in active registered reps in the last 10 years).

Since becoming a free agent I truly know now what it is like to be a professional. I don't have people blowing airguns during company meetings and we don't have 'opportunity' meetings. Do we recruit? Of Course. People can see our success and we can offer training programs and they are attracted to us, instead of us finding them. In Primerica I was asked to recruit everything that breathed, I'm thankful that now I am truly free. I can offer almost any product from almost any company that I desire. Given the wide variation of different peoples goals and financial situations, isn't that the correct way to do business? Since Primerica offers the same term insurance, loans and investments to all of its clients, how much of an 'advisor' do you really have to be, that is if you think that you really are an advisor, and not just a product pusher?

One thing that I think is important to point out is the compensation from doing business through Primerica vs. any other finacial services company. I am only 27. I work hard, and last year, with my new company, made a respectable 6 figure income. I did that on only my own work and not by trying to recruit and override everyone. I am directly resposible for my own success, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

If you want to use Primerica as trampoline to get a jump into the financial services industry, then great, but do yourself and your clients a favor and once you understand the basic concept, switch companies so you can truly start helping them. No two people have the same goals or situation, so why should the answer to all their varying needs be the same? Well, it isn't.

If my email address is posted on this report and you'd like to contact me personally, you have my total and complete permission to do so.

I'd like to say thanx all the primerica agents who come here and help to put their fraudulent company out of business

Thanks in part to primerica's own agents, the public is finally able to see exactly what kind of a scam primerica really is.

I just googled primerica. Not primerica plus scam. Nope. Just the word primerica. The same way that someone would if they were thinking about joining or buying the insurance.

Here's what I found.

RIP OFF REPORT:Primerica Financial Services chanting Amen perhaps a cult
www.ripoffreport.com/view.asp?id=10157

RIP OFF REPORT:Primerica is definitely a MLM scam
www.ripoffreport.com/view.asp?id=155069

As you can see, primerica's site is the number one listing. But, right underneath it are not one, but TWO ripoffreports. Man, that looks bad. One says scam. The other says cult.

All someone has to do is click on either complaint. Then, both primerica and citi are done. Nobody would ever buy anything from either one of them after reading just some of the complaints on those pages.

And, the primerica agents played a huge part in making that happen.

You see, every time they come here, they use the keywords that the search engines are looking for. Primerica. Scam. Insurance fraud. All the important words that people search for and the search engines keep track of.

Plus, each new post they make puts the page right back at the top of the ripoffreports, where thousands of new readers, plus millions of regular viewers, will see it.

Thank you, primericans!

But, there's more yet.

In most cases, the primerica agent is a complete dunce. They can't spell. They can't make sense when they write. That reinforces the fact that the agents are all idiots who can't be trusted with insurance or financial planning.

Their posts give readers something to laugh at. The agents continue to insist that primerica is not a pyramid, or a MLM scam. They insist that they are “out to help save people from big banks”. That's the best laugh yet. Nobody would ever believe a stupid comment like that. Out to help people! Save them from banks! That's so crazy that everyone knows they're lying. But, it's still funny to read.

Last, it gives people who aren't in primerica something to respond to. The primericans start long arguments that keep the page right at the top of the google listings.

Thank you, primericans!

But, we're not done yet. Together, we need to cover the whole google page with nothing but ripoffreports. Not just 2 or 3, but 99 listings after primerica's own site. Can you imagine that? Primerica's listing at the top. Then, 99 listings of fraud right below.

As long as you primerica agents come here and continue to help, I know we can do that. Then, this scam company will finally be driven out of business, before they can cheat any more people.

You primericans claim to want to help people, right?

Well, if you keep coming here, eventually you will help to put the primerica scam out of business.

Now, that's the kind of help that Americans really need!

Dr McGuire

You are correct sir!!!! Term insurance is a commodity. The Primerica people saying their term insurance is "added value" term is simply nonsense and something dreamed up by a marketing exec to try to justify their bloated premiums.

I started selling term through newpaper ads and over the net a few years ago. Less stressful, less time sitting in someone's home having them tell me they can't afford $25 a month to protect their family while a 52 inch flat screen TV they are paying $150 a month to Sears for sits in the corner.

My Experience

About six years ago, a representative of Primerica came to my home. I was not there but my then fiancee was. The woman gave him literature and told him how by joining Primerica he could get out of debt and in time become very wealthy. He took the information she left and said he had to wait for me to come home from work before he made any decisions.

When I got home he was excited and could not wait to show & tell. He told me all of the wonderful things we would be able to do and so on and so forth. My question to him was how much? He said oh well I don't know yet I have to wait for her to call me to set up an appointment.

I said to him baby we work for one of he largest telecommunications companies in the world and never once did they ask you to pay them for your salary, furthermore, they never asked you to go to any one's home to recruit them for your salary.

I guess in the end he understood that it was a scheme like all of the silly e mails we receive day in and day out about "make $5000.00 in a week from home" Give me a break. My resolve is, if it were really true why wouldn't all americans or all people for that matter be wealthy, out of debt, living well somewhere with thier families?

By the way, I am also an actress and I once went on a casting call for one of those pyramid scheme videos that you all have seen about how much xyz company has benefitted me. Good Luck!

Wendy: On behalf of the "real world", Welcome

Wendy in Tecumseh, Kansas said: "I'm simplying saying, MLM is a businss model and it works."

Tell that to the many MLMs who failed when the market saturated and recruiting couldn't continue (or when they were shut down for being thinly disguised pyramid schemes).

Wendy also wrote: "Yes it is pyramidal in structure, but have you looked at the organizational chart for your employer lately? What shape do you see? Who makes the most money on that chart?"

Oh joy, the usual defense. When I look at my company's organizational chart, I see those with the most education and experience making the most money. My company does not ask me to pay money so I can "get rich if I just work hard enough!"; IT PAYS ME to perform a job. I don't have to PAY to attend brainwashing seminars and meetings pushing me to BUY more 'motivational' products. I don't have to BUY inventory to unload on friends and family with similar get-rich-quick dreams. I am not pushed to continually chase after a dream that only 1/2 of 1% will achieve, though the MLM falsely promotes that everyone has an "equal chance of success based on effort". I am not encouraged to endanger familial relationships, friendships, and personal finances in pursuit of this elusive goal. I am not a fool.

Those of us with brick-and-mortar businesses get our products and services to consumers who want them on their own merits, not just so they can buy them to reach the next sales goal. We compensate our employees based on their own merits and not the efforts of others in some cost-inflating 'downline'. We are committed to remaining in the marketplace so our customers enjoy our products and services for years to come; we are not selling overpriced products and services by employing a flawed marketing vehicle that collapses when it continues to ignore market saturation. We don't need to continually recruit to replace those who drop out when the dreams that were represented to them don't materialize (because mathematically speaking, they can't).

If you want to own your own business, get your education, experience, and business licenses, and do it. If you're too lazy to do that, then you can waste some years of your life chasing that impossible (for 99+%) dream and ruining your relationships and finances, paying the money you earned at your real job to "the next big ground-floor opportunity" in the MLM-of-the-month club. Feel free to be one of the average millions who will earn less than $1000 net for their backbreaking work in MLMs while the MLM makes billions off their collective misguided efforts.

Welcome to the real world, Wendy.

PFS reference... World Marketing Alliance (WMA)

To all of you want to or thinking about it or already participated in PFS, please research World Marketing Alliance (WMA), now it is called world financial group. The founder of WMA was co-owner of PFS fifteen years ago. Best of luck and be careful.

Rebutting Wendy (Tecumseh) and responding to Dayton

First I quote Wendy:

"MLM is a businss model and it works. Yes it is pyramidal in structure, but have you looked at the organizational chart for your employer lately? What shape do you see? Who makes the most money on that chart? Hmm? Maybe the President of your employer doesn't get direct commissions off of you, but guess what? They're still making the big bucks because you come to work and put in your 40-60 every week. Welcome to the real world."

Who does this MLM business model work for at
Primerica Wendy besides the fat cats at the top of the pyramid scheme? You still make more money at McDonalds flippin burgers than you do as a slavefrontline Primerica agent in the same amount of time. Can you document any successful frontline agents working at Primerica successfully working off of sale of product alone? Just send in the paperwork to Ripoff Report and they'll be happy to post it for you or set up a website with a link to this one. And Wendy, welcome to the real world.

With respect to Dayton:

(1) Bait and switch tactics are illegal and many unscrupulous employers have been taken to the Labor Board and challenged successfully over there and if this tactic is widespread throughout the company, the state's attorney general can take the company to court.

(2) You're still comparing apples to oranges as
Primerica is commission based while Kmart is
salary based. Also middlemen (middlepersons?) at
Kmart wouldn't be in the same role as a frontline
slave agent at Primerica.

(3) With respect to commission I'm sure that the
middleman makes a respectable living at Kmart. I
challenge Dayton as I'm challenging Wendy to
produce documentation for successful frontline
agents at Primerica.

With respect to both Dayton and Wendy,
misrepresentation, deception, lying and fraud is
rampant throughout Primerica. Not a word has come
forth from the fat cats about this. All they do is send over shills to this website to try to confuse the public on what can't be defended. Until they address the problems given on this website, I'll keep posting away.

Responding to Richard (Chico) comment which caught my eye

Thank you for your report.

You have made a comment which caught my eye which I'm now quoting:

"...one of the reasons that Primerica has experienced such a dramatic drop in active registered reps in the last 10 years." That says a
mouthful as Primerica's website is not up to date as
far as active registered reps go.

My question now is whether there's a website existing that gives that number on a yearly basis?

Felt lucky to get out of there with my soul after declining to "join" a number of times, and refused to implicate any family or friends.

Thanks for shedding light on the truth about Primerica

Primerica reps tried to recruit me a number of years ago- I was young, broke and curious so I attended an evening meeting. Felt lucky to get out of there with my soul after declining to "join" a number of times, and refused to implicate any family or friends.

Cult-like? Yes. Pyramid-like? You betcha. Providing a needed and helpful service to debt-ridden people? Not on your life. As under-educated as I was at the time, I was able to see through the smoke and mirrors to the Ponzi scheme.

I thought Primerica would fall out of fashion after a few years when enough people got taken for money they can't afford to lose, it's a shame that has not yet happened.

It is amusing to laugh at the grammatical and spelling errors within the impassioned rhetoric posted by Primerica employees and shills on this website. I have noted some pleas for hard data showing earnings and debt lowering structure plans, it would also help list more and more stories from real people who lost real money to Primerica.

Also of note, Primerica's parent company citifi has a booming business in the home equity/mortgage refi business, keep your eyes open for the default rate on those loans in the next 12 months as the economy tightens up- I'm sure those contracts have fine print and extremely high interest default or balloon rates that consumers can't or didn't take the time to read, and with no cost closings, no attorneys involved; equals no consumer protection. Might be we'll be seeing a lot of people losing their homes because they trusted the folks from citifi...

Anyway, have enjoyed reading the postings, glad to see I am not the only person who has loathed Primerica for such a very long time, hopefully the days are numbered for that particular organization. America, wake up!

Btu What really does it for me is the class of the R VP.

My "best freind," or so he used to say, is the RVP for the area I live in. What really does it for me and the main reason I don't participate in the group and it's products is the class of teh individuals involved.

Not only are their speaking and writing skills "top notch," their reguard for the law is above reproach. After all, I know that I couldn't drive my 100K car and park it in the handicapped parking space in front of my office and get away with it without a handicapped sticker. (I have disabled veteran plates and still choose to park in regualr parking spots.) But then, it appears that disreguard for the law filters doen from the top (or maybe you don't follow the news).

Pardon the spelling, but I get that way when I'm peeved.

Not defending all MLMs

Paula,
I'm not saying that all MLMs are good, just as there are unethical, poorly managed corporations (anyone here heard of Enron?) I'm also not saying that anyone will get rich quick, or get rich at all for that matter, as part of an MLM. They will, however, have a viable vehicle for income and get the tax benefits of owning a business.

As a matter of fact, I do know a man who works out of the same office I do and he makes a very good income on his own without recruiting. It is not my place, however, to post his information on the web.

It made me a little sad that you think people who run a business as part of an MLM don't have the best interests of their customers in mind. I have many friends who are consultants for various companies and they believe just as you, that they want to serve their clients for the long term and build a strong business.

Finally, I also have a full-time job, and there are plenty of people in my office who are making much more than me that have less education or are less qualified. People who have been promoted to management as a way to get them out of the way, or people who got their jobs because of who they know. It's not fair, but it's the reality of business.

What you are describing as the real world is a perfect business world that doesn't exist.

'Not defending all MLMs' is wise, Wendy

Wendy in Tecumseh, Kansas wrote: "It made me a little sad that you think people who run a business as part of an MLM don't have the best interests of their customers in mind."

We have a misunderstanding. The average lower-level MLMer is a nice person guilty of nothing more than gullibility in my opinion. My beef is against those who run the MLM from the upper echelons, who are perfectly aware of the fraud they're perpetrating on those below. They know that the only way to prevent collapse and continue their downline-dependent incomes is to continue selling impossible (for 99+%) dreams.

Wendy also wrote: "I'm also not saying that anyone will get rich quick, or get rich at all for that matter, as part of an MLM. They will, however, have a viable vehicle for income and get the tax benefits of owning a business."

For the average MLMer, it is NOT a viable vehicle for income and tax benefits. I was very generous with my $1000 net income figure. MLM industry statistics state that on average only 10% of distributors get a commission check each month. Of that 10%, 80% do not make enough to sustain themselves as a full-time income. The IRS says you can't generally operate an unprofitable "business" out of your home with the hopes that it will pay off, and then deduct the cost and operation of a personal residence/home office; pay your family as employee write-offs; write off your car when it's been used for both personal and business use; deduct travel, meals, and entertainment under the guise that everyone is a potential client; etc. See http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=106517,00.html. Also note that for direct sellers, prizes (bonuses, trips, etc.), awards, and gifts are all taxable. Keep in mind that your "real job"'s benefits can comprise 30% or more of your total compensation.

Wendy also wrote: "[...] there are plenty of people in my office who are making much more than me that have less education or are less qualified. People who have been promoted to management as a way to get them out of the way, or people who got their jobs because of who they know. [...] What you are describing as the real world is a perfect business world that doesn't exist."

I know that I have hired degree-less 40-year-olds with a lot of experience and maturity over multi-degreed 25-year-olds with no experience and maturity. The unpromoted do feel slighted and cite the same complaints you have, but my responsibility is to risk management and the success of the company, not to making everyone feel accomplished regardless of merit. Most of my family own their own businesses (non-MLM) and share my thoughts on this. There are certainly corrupt jerks out there, but there are plenty of good small businesses that simply cannot please every employee. Some employees may not be completely satisfied with their jobs, but MLM is by far NOT the answer. Most companies prevent their employees from simultaneously working for anyone else because their attention to their job should remain paramount. What would you recommend I do with sleep-deprived MLMer employees who miss work due to illness and muck up projects my company relies on? Promote them?

Even your friend who is building an MLM business without recruiting will inevitably hit a ceiling without it, because it defeats the purpose of MLM. He'll find it difficult to ever replace his income and earn enough for retirement. And for those who succeed (only moderately, for most that do) utilizing recruiting, what happens when the market inevitably saturates and the lower echelons can no longer recruit? COLLAPSE, and there goes their income. The truth is that they'll be recruiting downline for the remainder of their days while dependent on that unstable income. So much for financial independence and retirement within a few years (the dream).

Right, I'll stop for now.