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  • Report: #10157

Report: Primerica – Ripoff Report Investigation – Primerica Always Makes Things Right.

Reported By: (San Diego CA)

Primerica Financial Services - Research of its financial products and Business Opportunity, Primerica shows total commitment to resolve all issues and misunderstandings, committed to serving clients & agents Rip-off Report investigates and finds most of what is posted is ridiculous like this title, Primerica Financial Services - Traveler's Insurance, chanting Amen, perhaps comparing Primerica to a cult *UPDATE: Rip-off Report Investigation examines the Company and its record of service to consumers and representatives

... Question for Leroy

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3Author 466Consumer 457Employee
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Primerica – Ripoff Report Investigation – Primerica Always Makes Things Right.


San Diego Nationwide
U.S.A.
Phone:  
Web Address:  

Category: Financial Services


Submitted: Friday, December 28, 2001

Last posting: Saturday, December 30, 2006
Rip-Off Report Investigative Progress Report on Primerica Financial Services – 10-16-08

*UPDATE: Rip-off Report re-evaluated Primerica Financial Services and finds that the company continues to offer a business opportunity that is well worth considering. Thru our experience with Primerica, we continue to find that they maintain a high level of commitment to treating consumers fairly and in most cases they have gone way beyond the call of good customer service. Since Primerica became a member of the Corporate Advocacy Business Remediation & Customer Satisfaction Program almost 2 years ago, Rip-off Report has continued to monitor Primerica and work closely with home office executives to resolve consumer and agent inquiries and concerns. Rip-off Report is pleased to report that Primerica continues to show outstanding commitment and dedication to respond and resolve issues promptly, many times going over and above the expectations of consumers and this website. To our knowledge Primerica has responded to all legitimate inquiries we have forwarded to them, and to inquiries the company has received directly. We at Rip-off Report believe that Primerica is a solid, reliable company that stands behind their agents and its products. If you think that becoming a Primerica representative or buying a Primerica product is right for you, we would urge you to give the company careful consideration.

=====================
NOW TO THE ORIGINAL REPORT THAT WAS FILED
=====================


PRIMERICA INVESTIGATED
EDitor's Comment: Rip-off Report Investigation: Primerica gets a POSITIVE RATING in customer support from Rip-off Report and is fulfilling its commitment to provide excellent customer service. Primerica pledges to resolve complaints and address representative issues. For a long time this EDitor had concerns about Primerica because of the number of Reports about them. For many months Rip-off Report was looking into the company, even before they contacted us to resolve any issues and mostly misunderstandings being posted by competitors. With over 100,000 representatives and 6 million clients, Primerica is bound to be the subject of a certain number of complaints about improper agent conduct, as well as product and administrative complaints.

Rip-Off's investigation found such complaints, but importantly also found that Primerica is committed to resolving such complaints quickly and doing everything possible to satisfy its clients. It also takes appropriate action against any of its representatives who are found to have conducted themselves improperly or unethically. We believe that the number of complaints against this company, whether through the Internet or other channels, is small when put into the context of its enormous size. Most big companies would never commit themselves like Primerica has. Read our investigative Report and Primerica's commitment to 100% consumer satisfaction.


www.primerica.com provides products and services through independent representatives. Primerica www.primerica.com has more than 100,000 licensed representatives who serve more than 6 million clients in the U.S., Canada, Puerto Rico, Spain and the United Kingdom. Through a Financial Needs Analysis www.primericafna.com, the company's representatives provide a snapshot of a family's financial picture and suggest a strategy for financial security via Primerica's products and services www.primericafi



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REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
3Author 466Consumer 457Employee
Updates & Rebuttals
#1
Respond to this report! What's This?
POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:

Their email: mortgagewizz@aol.com
Their name: ray

Their relationship to the company: Owner

Rebuttal:
The recruits I met had little or no college education, and came
from a variety of backgrounds. I have no prejudice with working with a mixed variety of people, but I also work a job where higher salaries are based on education and experience.

I have a Master's degree and felt as if I would start from zero
with this company. I do not want more training for an entirely
new career.


So what you are saying is that because you have a college education that your better then me? That's funny. I have 1 sister and 4 brothers , all with college degree's. Now guess what? I make more then any of them in a year. Yes, you do get paid because of your experience with us. How many years have you worked for us? Did i just hear you say "none"? well since
you don't have any experience you'll have to start where everyone elsedoes and work you way to the top. I love how this company rewards and pays the doers not the talkers.
#2
Respond to this report! What's This?
POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
They filed the following Rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:

Their email: kendrabonds@hotmail.com
Their name: kendra

Their relationship to the company: Supporter

Rebuttal:
YOU HAD MENTIONED THAT YOU DIDN'T CARE FOR THE RECRUITING, AMEN,ETC. PORTION AND THAT THEY NEVER ONCE MENTIONED ANYTHING ABOUT GETTING PEOPLE OUT OF DEBT AND ON THE ROAD TO RETIREMENT. MAYBE IF YOU WERE TO TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT THE COMPANY THAT YOU WORK FOR DOES? DON'T THEY DO THE SAME THING(RECRUIT, HIRE TRAIN, ETC)DOES THE COMPANY THAT YOU WORK FOR EVERY DAY PROMOTE COMPANY AND ASSOCIATE MORALE AND GIVE YOU RECOGNITION EVERY DAY? NOT TO MENTION HELP PEOPLE ON A DAILY BASIS.
#3
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POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:

Their email: bondjedi@hotmail.com
Their name: Michael Angelo

Their relationship to the company: Consumer Suggestion

Rebuttal:
This rip-off report seems to be a case of "piling on". Primerica ripped you off because...they tried to recruit you?

Though unsavory some Primerica reps may seem, your comments about the "mixed variety of people" with "little or no education" makes you seem even more unsavory. No Ripoff Report posted has accused Primerica of racism. You, unfortunately, sound very bigoted.

Good luck with your "Instructional Design" career.
#4
Update By Author
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POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
This is in response to the rebuttals College Education, Take a look, and Racism.

I did not say that having a College Education made me better than any one else. It does enable me to be paid more in certain businesses and in those businesses one is paid according to educational background and experience. I did state that I did not wish to start at ground zero in salary or not be able to negotiate my worth.

Take a look's rebuttal .....Any company I have worked for has compensated as per salary daily rate for any training. Companies I have workded for have not asked me to bring friends to meetings or chastised me for not bringing friends to meetings. Furthermore, interviewers have always been able to provide answers to questions. Brochures about the company are given, etc. Yes, most company's are recruiting but most interview according to skills, experience, etc. listed on the resume. My background is technology, education and leadership. No where in the interview did any of my skills come to the front and discussed. There were no questions about what I do best in my expertise, or my weaknesses, or do I like what I do. I was basically told that I was in a dead end job and would never make enough money at it. No one asked what I did make. And, although it was mentioned that they help get people out of debt, the rest of the meetings and videos was all about how many people you need to recruit in order to become rich. I did not hear the philosophy of getting people out of debt as the focus.

To address the "racism" or "bigotry" ...there was no mention of ethnic groups and no intent; therefore, the accusation of my being racist is unfounded and reaching. I never accused Primerica of being racist, either. What I did state is If Primerica is allowing meetings to be conducted with chants of "Amens" and "put downs" of other jobs, then it is Primerica who needs to assess their bigotry and prejudice and lack of respect. For example, what if you had a Johovah Witness or Muslim among the group. Would not that be an insult and a valid show of disrepect to them? Any company who recruits a vast number of people must instill among all who represent the company the need to be "politically correct", wouldn't you agree? A large company represented by a mast number of individuals has to maintain the integrity, ethics and morals in all aspects of its structure. I did not witness that in the last meeting I attended. Keep in mind that the video was top people of Primerica and people from all over and the chanting was allowed and encouraged. Even the people in the audience of the meeting I was in were chanting. Sorry, but that is not acceptable in a non clergy setting. Rather than being so defensive with some of these rip off reports, you who represent Primerica should seriously listen to how you are preceived by some, stop taking it personally and firing back with immature remarks, and use it to your advantage to make change. Shooting the messenger is not always the best solution.
#5
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POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:

Their email: TrishMcD@aol.com
Their name: Patricia

Their relationship to the company: Owner

Rebuttal:
Well,there must be a reason why you were sitting in that chair. Obviously, you weren't having any luck with anything else "going on" in your life. If all you have to do is sit around knocking other companies, you need to get a life. At least us at Primerica have better things to do like helping people climb out of debt, and become financially independent. Has anywhere
you ever worked help make a difference, an impact on peoples lives? This world is in a hurt of trouble as far as people being in debt and not financially secure.....perhaps you could look at the "big picture", instead of worrying about people saying "Amen". ....By the way WE ARE the largest financial services company in the WORLD, we have over a trillion
in assets, does that sound like a cult to you???
#6
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POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:

Their email: kendrabonds@hotmail.com
Their name: kendra

Their relationship to the company: Supporter

Rebuttal:
YOU HAD MENTIONED THAT ALL THE MEETING FOCUSED ON WAS RECRUIT, RECRUIT, RECRUIT AND NOTHING ABOUT HELPING PEOPLE GET OUT OF DEBT, OR ANY OF THE PRINCIPLES AND CONCEPTS THAT THE COMPANY TEACHES. DOESN'T MCDONALDS FOCUS ON HIRING A TEAM AND MARKETING.

ARE THEY NOT IN THE FRANCHISE BUSINESS? HOW DO YOU THINK THEY MAKE THEIR MONEY? IN ORDER FOR THEM TO MAKE MONEY THEY HAVE TO DO WHAT?(THIS IS A NO-BRAINER)THEY HAVE TO HIRE THEIR TEAM IN
ORDER TO MAKE THE SYSTEM WORK.

IT IS NO DIFFERENT THAN ANY OTHER COMPANIES OUT THERE AND WHAT THEY DO. AS FAR AS COLLEGE EDUCATION GOES COLLEGE IS NOT FOR EVERYONE. THE AVERAGE AMOUNT TIME SPENT ATTENDING COLLEGE IS ANYWHERE BETWEEN 2&10 YEARS, NOT THAT THERE IS ANYTHING WRONG WITH ATTENDING COLLEGE FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO GO, HOWEVER HOW MANY YEARS DO YOU THINK THE AVERAGE PERSON SPENDS PAYING THOSE STUDENT LOANS WITH ANYWHERE FROM 10-18% BACK? HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE IN DEFAULT WITH THEIR LOANS, BECAUSE THEY FOR SOME REASON(FAMILY, NOT MAKING ENOUGH MONEY, TOO MUCH DEBT TO INCOME RATIO, ETC)OR ANOTHER HAVE NOT YET BEEN ABLE TO PAY ALL OF IT OR EVEN BEGIN PAYING ON IT, BECAUSE WHEN PEOPLE DO GRADUATE FROM COLLEGE THEY ARE EXPECTING TO LAND A JOB RIGHT AWAY AND THAT DOESN'T ALWAYS HAPPEN, AND FOR THE ONES THAT DO FORTUNATELY LAND A JOB RIGHT AWAY, TOO OFTEN MORE THAN NOT DO STUDENTS EXPECT A HIGH PAYING JOB RIGHT OUT OF COLLEGE AND THAT DOESN'T ALWAYS HAPPEN EITHER.

SO WHAT HAPPENS NEXT, IS THAT A LOT OF COLLEGE GRADUATES DON'T EVEN END UP WORKING IN THE FIELD FOR WHICH THEY DID OBTAIN A DEGREE IN AND FOR WHICH THEY ALSO STILL HAVE TO PAY THE LOAN BACK.

WHEN YOU DO MEET WITH A POTENTIAL EMPLOYER OF CHOICE, WHO DICTATES YOUR SALARY, YOUR RAISES, ETC. IT SOUNDS LIKE PRIMERICA IS ONLY TRYING TO GIVE PEOPLE THAT DON'T HAVE A COLLEGE EDUCATION THE SAME OPPORTUNITY THAT WOULD BE GIVEN EVEN IF A PERSON DID HAVE A COLLEGE EDUCATION.
#7
Respond to this report! What's This?
POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:

Their email: hereinstlouis@hotmail.com
Their name: C.D.

Their relationship to the company: Owner

Rebuttal:

Kendra,

By your nearly illiterate posts and ALL CAPS, you are proving your opponents' point every time you post. Keep up the good work.

As to your ridiculous McDonalds analogy (which, by the way PFS uses constantly -- maybe because so many of its MLM agents come off the burger line), it's just silly. Can the McDonalds counterboy go out and hire burger flippers at will - ten of them, twenty of them, and then take a piece of the pie when they flip a burger? Can the fry guy hire 100 soda-dispensers and 10 janitors and hope to take a piece of each of their wages when they mop the floor? Can each of those janitors hire 150 toilet
scrubbers by recruiting at the other McDonalds?

What you are offering is not a job, and not a career. It's a great way to part with $200 of your own money and have less of a chance of being successful than if you went to a casino.
#8
Respond to this report! What's This?
POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:

Their email: abc@123.com
Their name: Voice of Reason

Their relationship to the company: Consumer Suggestion

Rebuttal:
I just received the same recruiting call. Thanks to this exchange of information and the very poor representation made by those of you claiming to be part of PFS, I saved myself a lot of time. I also learned a significant amount about PFS (Which by the way is NOT "THE LARGEST" IFS company...that's their parent comapany).

One point I would like to make to those of you involved in recruting for this company. It's one thing to misrepresent your product, which in fact you are doing when you're approach is MLM, it's another thing to be unable to recognize that that is what you're doing. That's the sad part, and perhaps why you are unable to obtain a straight forward job helping others
financialy.
#9
Respond to this report! What's This?
POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:

Their email: TheFraudChick@aol.com
Their name: The Fraud Chick

Their relationship to the company: Consumer Suggestion

Rebuttal:
I'm having an internal debate, but I think this string of shill rebuttals has set my resolve. In the next few weeks I intend to post a report about Primerica. In this report I will tell you all the REAL STORY. I want everyone to know that I have NO personal involvement with Primerica. I have no animus towards them nor am I a shill--so I hope you will find it objective.

I think you all will be surprised as to what I've found, for example:

Primerica is a pyramid style marketing scheme. Understand I don't state it's illegal, but it's marketing style is a pyramid.

Citigroup has been sued many times for questionable ventures. Primerica is one that is *currently* in question. There is no lawsuit for Primerica--yet.

Citigroup has paid millions of dollars in fines for unethical acts and business ventures.

I will site all lawsuits in my major report for all of you naysayers. I only ask that shills not attack those who have questions about Primerica. Who are you to attack those who have been harmed? It's their lost money not yours, and if they want to warn others so they won't lose money then let them.

Don't bother shilling this. Save it for my report.

The Fraud Chick
#10
Respond to this report! What's This?
POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:

Their email: sic_mp@yahoo.com
Their name: edward

Their relationship to the company: Owner

Rebuttal:
Primerica meeting smells like Amway

I sat in on a Primerica meeting recently and took some fascinating notes (actual numbers, not fantastic mystical possibly drug induced magic projected numbers) Number of times the word "oppertunity" mentioned - 18 "Fantastic", "dynamic" or "amazing" mentioned - 20 "financially independent" - 8
"missed oppertunity" - 14 "make your money work for you" - 4
number of times "how banks rip you off" demonstrated - 6
number of times the above used hard figures - 0 number of times catch phrases or buzz words ("live the dream", "make your
money work for you", "financially independent",etc...)used - 16

They used the tried-and-true method of 'pitch and toss', which is after 3-5 minutes a presenter passes it on to another presenter. They reiterated the idea that the job you are at is "based on the position and not the person", dehumanising the way your boss views you.

And what the hell is with the rule of 72? is it me or is this the same math used to say the bush tax cut would preserve the surplus?

Another problem i have with primerica is that citigroup, its parent is chiefly recognised as a bank, or financial institution. Primerica recruiters constantly berate banks but glorify citigroup's size and its internal capital as its gauge of growth potential. (basically biting the hand that feeds)
#11
Consumer Comment
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POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
I would like to thank the person who started this site and the person who started this Report. I was recently contacted and met with a recuiter who told me I helped them and wanted to offer me a job (as a Manager) but it struck me as odd that she had to talk to her manager to hire me because she alreadly talked to him just to be able to leave the office to talk to me.

She also didn't answer any of my question but said that all of my questions would be answered in the night interview which also seems odd that a finical company would be having an interview for people at 7 P.M. with a large group of people. As for this company offer I am choosing not to be a part of it.

I do find some comments funny from some of the owners that one stated someting about the person who started this report had time to sit on their but and write this yet they claim the are not a ripoff yet they searched for their company in a RIP OFF REPORT SITE. This was just one Major red flag telling me not join this company.
#12
Consumer Comment
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POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
Most companies in the Financial Services industry including AMEX, Merryll Lynch etc., require the management to help recruit and build the organization in a manner consistent with Primerica. However, no one but Primerica ask that recruiting be your primary focus rather than developing clients who desperately need your services.

I cannot understand why Primerica reps cannot build a reputable business in the traditional manner and then let their success drive their recruiting effort. Sell mortgages, insurance and mutual funds in the manner that best serves your client. When you do the right thing for your clients, you will naturally become successful. Once you are making over 100K per year you will find plenty of college recruits who want to emulate you. Once you start hitting the quarter million mark in earnings consistently, you may even find reputable, experienced and savvy individuals willing to be trained by you.

So if you lack the confidence because you cant pay your own bills, stop recruiting and start prospecting for clients. Ask your management to do the right thing for the client. Stop charging insane fees for mortgage refinances etc., and don't think Term is the only insurance of value.

Work for Primerica because it is easier to get started, but always do what is right for your clients. Stop recruiting at ground zero and concentrate of learning the products and how it can help your clients. Once you learn to provide an outstanding value for your clients and gain a reputation as the best in the business, start recruiting. Its that simple.

Good Luck!
#13
Owner of Company
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POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
Primerica Financial Services offers tremdous products and is providing a very viable financial solution to middle-class consumers.

I am a senior in Finance at Pittsburg State University. I am one of the top students in my class and have been heavily recruited by financial companies such as American Century and Merrill Lynch. However, when I analyzed the services offered by these other companies I concluded that the many of the products sold were not in the consumers' best interest. When you really analyze different financial instruments such as Variable Universal Life and Variable Annuities you see that in MOST cases they are not good options. In all cases, the correct products should be sold to meet the specific needs of the consumer.

Primerica's Financial Needs Analysis is actually a tremendous financial planning tool and the fact that it is complementary is a very positive thing.

If some representatives of Primerica push products that are not well suited for consumers, than that is a bad reflection on them and our company. Ultimately, people need to be responsible and do what's right. The professionalism of Primerica's leadership is solid and the company provides great support and educational training. If you are a good person, this company has a tremendous opportunity for you.
#14
Consumer Comment
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POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
Thank you for reporting your experience at a recruitment interview for Primerica. I happened to accidentally come accross this Rip off site in my search about the company and it's tacktics. I too fell victim to an interview and I saw red flags.

My experience was very much like yours in which the recruiter did not have my resume handy that they claimed they got off a reputiable Job search site. I asked the same kind of questions as you did as to why they thought I would be a good candidate when I did not have any financial background.

I do have a college education and I thought it was ironic that I too am a Designer like you are. My experience was verbatum like yours except I only had one individual in the interview but I was baited to come to the interview by a male representative/"Owner" and when I got to the interview it was a female/"Owner". It ended up being an introduction meeting and she was not interested at all in what I could offer the company.

They did mention Management potential for a new branch they wanted to open up in my city - prompted by my questions about management.

They did not ask about my background but they talked about what they could do for people to get them out of debt and there program of operation. I felt like I was in a sales pitch, much the way I work in my sales position I have now.

They did recommend I keep my present job since the work is part time and they did say that it would cost me $199 to start the application process for the JOB! I have never had to pay someone to apply for a position in my life - BIG RED FLAG!

Sure they made it sound attractive and like it was a good deal being that they would train and pay my licensing fees. But thanks for my mothers wisdom - "Nothing is for Free!" Also they scheduled me for a second interview where I can ask all my questions about the position of which is still not defined - It could be a management position or just an entry level Personal Financial Analyst. I guess if I went to the second interview I would possibly have more details or than again maybe I would just be out the $199 bucks and a bunch of wasted time.

Thanks for this site - as it made me aware of the snafooo I almost got caught up in.
#15
Consumer Comment
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I was contacted as well....

John - Honolulu ()

POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
Having once answered an ad by the now defunct-in-Hawai'i scammers Eqinox for "a job" (the state of Hawai'i has since shut them down) this all sounds like deja-vu to me . I have gone through the same experiences as the original poster of this forum. I was just called this last week for an "interview" and I just happened to ask over the phone what kind of company it (Primerica) was. They said they were a financial company. I think that they just pull people in their area's resume's over the internet regardless of their skills because I am not even in the financial industry, I'm a tech worker. I'd be very skeptical of this kind of company.
#16
Consumer Comment
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Work on your HR skills, please

Sakura - Toronto ()

POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
I am not for or against Primerica. I don't know anything about their business, or the way they do business.

In fact, I first heard about them an hour ago when I received a phone-call from someone at Primerica wanting to interview me for a job. They said they got my resume from the Internet. That's legit -- I've posted on the 'Net. But since I'm not actively looking for full-time employment (I work as a temp), I was a bit flustered, and set up an appointment without asking what job I was interviewing for. I assumed they needed a temporary Administrative Assistant to wordpro some documents, since that is what my resume indicates I've been doing for the past 3 years.

When I called back to get specifics, I was told I would be interviewing for a job to run their branch offices. Then I was put on hold, and I had a moment to think, "What?! I don't have an MBA, I don't have a Commerce degree, I've never worked in a bank, I have no management experience, I've never even supervised anyone... what kind of company is this that wants to hire me, based on my resume, to run a financial institution's branch office?".

When back on the line, I told my would-be recruiter I didn't want to waste their time for a position I was neither interested in nor capable of. I mean, who wants to work for a company that has clearly not read your resume, yet offers you a job?

It was only afterwards that I looked Primerica up on the web and found all this contraversial (and sometimes rather testy) information. So rebutt that!
#17
Employee
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POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
Hello Everyone,

First off let me start by telling averyone that I currently am working for Primerica. I have been with the company for seeral months and have read many of the posts on this site. There are very legitimate points being made both for and against PFS. I just want to touch on a few of them.

Everyone is talking about the $199 they ask for up front when joining PFS. Yes they do, but you are not actually paying to work for PFS. What you are paying for are the books and classroom instruction that you first receive, so you can receive your State Life Insurance license. Yes you pay an additional $80 to actaully take your state exam, but that is returned to you once you pass. So just like taking a computer course, driving lesson, or music lesson, you are paying for instruction on a subject. That is where your $199 dollars goes.

On recruiting, yes they is a large push to recruit. I have been pushed to recruit ever since I have joined with PFS... But I haven't. I started with PFS to learn how to handle my general finances, like credit card debt, loans, to better understand interest rates, and yes to make a little money. Which you can do without recruiting anyone. I have learned a significant amount of knowledge in regard to life insurance, how mortgages work, securities and mutual funds. That is the real benefit of working for PFS. I personally will not recruit until I feel comfortable that I have enough knowledge to teach that person I hire. I like helping people and the services we offer can very well help them. Each person has their own integrity level, some higher than others, but that problem exists everywhere in the world, not just in PFS.

I for one agree with everyone that helping the client should be the first priority. I have even helped some friend of mine out recently with savings and life insurance. It was a great feeling and that is what I personally am about. Not hiring drowns that use scripts and are just out to make money. I agree with Justus, the person who make the comment about building a reputal business before recruiting. I whole heartedly believe in that. Unfortunately not everyone else does.

For those individulas that are making statements in regards to the services PFS offer, until you are educated in the world of finance to the greatest degree, I think you should refrain from making un-educated statements. I think that the person from Pittsburgh State University is very educated in the world of finance, so he can offer a great insight into our services. Since I am not fully trained to that degree, I will not.

Yes PFS has it issues, just like any other company. But PFS is whatever you make of it, just like any other business. If you want to help people you can, if you want to make money you can.

Until you complete one of those free Financial Needs Analysis', don't knock them. In their simplicity or complexity, they are a great tool. As long as the person handles it correctly.

On everything regarding the legal status of the companies involved or the lawsuits and stuff. I need to do my own research on that, before I can make an informed statement. I'm sure that PFS and Citigroup have their issues. But what company doesn't.

All that I am saying is that you cannot judge PFS from the oustside of the company. Yes, everyone has very legitimate comments/complaints/issues with PFS. But there is some great to be done by PFS, if the individual person makes the effort. PFS is what you make of it!!

I hope that my comments here are found as informative and not aggressive. Yes I am partially biased as I do work for PFS, but I do not have blinders on either. Also, please excuse my bad spelling and grammar, they really are not one of my strong points. Oh, for those of you who are interested, yes I did graduate High School and yes I do have a college degree, just not in grammar. :)

Best Regards,
Steven


P.S. Kent from Fort Scott. That spelling error was a really cheap shot! Not being able to spell correctly while typing, does not show ignorance or lack of intelligence. But making that comment does, since it seemed you were reaching for things to comment on.
#18
Individual Responds
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POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
I got a call this morning and a real nice voice came over the line and told me that my name came across his desk. He said he had an Executive Managers position open at this time and was wondering if I would be intesested in it. He was really nice, we joked and all that and it sounded really pretty interesting.

He did tell me it was part time and it was commission only and that there was a possibility of making $100k. Well I have heard of the company, Primerica so it didn't sound too bad and thought, what have I got to lose, just go hear what he has to say. So I said yes I will meet you at 10:30.

Well guess what folks, not only am I going to meet with him and listen to him, but when he finishes, I am going to have a printout of everything I have read on this site regarding Primerica. At that point, I will stand up and say NO but HELL NO!

I am convinced that with supposedly a large corporation like they say they are, that there would be more positive things on the internet regarding their company. Good lord! not all the negative things that I have found. I found a lot more negative than anything positive.

I urge people to stay away. You choice, but it sounds pretty scary.

Good luck if you do.
#19
Consumer Comment
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POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
I was recently contacted by 2 different primerica reps in 1 day i told the first person that i wasn't intrested and not to call me so what happened later that day someone else called me and tried to recuirt me as they would say. anyway and why do they charge a 199 dollar fee is it for training you know if it was a legit company then they would pay for the training not the person and they would give you a salary based off expeience and college education so is primerica a ripoff i say yes if i get anyway emails from anyone from primerica i will take them to court for harrasment
#20
Ex-Employee
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My PFS experience

Lonnie - Tulsa ()

POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
I was recruited by PFS in 1996 and went through all the same stuff almost everyone on this site went through except I actually bought into the BS. I was with the company for about 4 years before I finally wised up. I am still in the financial services industry and also, working on a degree in finance. In the years that I have been away from PFS I have spoken to many finacial professionals who have nothing good to say about PFS. I have read many reports here about the FNA or financial needs analysis this report is just a marketing tool to sell products and recruit agents. It is not a ligitimate report. Almost everyone ends of having a "shortfall" of income and of course this opens the door to the "opportunity" meaning "hey come sell some high priced life insurance and mortgages".

PFS sells their insurance based on the premiss that it is "better" than anyone elses and "price is only an issue in the absence of value" what a bunch of BS. The fact is term insurance is term insurance and you can go to just about any insurance company and purchase it for less than a PFS agent can sell you theirs.

Also, they will tell you on their mortgages that interest rate does not matter. Do I even need to comment on this?.....I didn't think so.

Next, you can go to any other company and make more money. When I was in they started a "greeny" at a 25% contract on life insurance and something like a 16.2% on securities or mutual fund sales. When I left and went to another company I received a 50% contract for life insurance sales and in about 3 months went to 80%. On securities I received a 75% contract. Currently I'm on a 95% contract with life insurance.

PFS recruits people outside of the financial industry because no one in the industry will work for them. Their products are high and their commisions are low. Also, these people know nothing about finances and definitly don't "save peoples lives" as some have stated. I have many reasons to have left but one was because there was zero support from my upline RVP to get an education in finance to truely be able to help someone. All I kept hearing was "recruit and build". You can talk to any brainwashed PFS agent or personal financial analysist as they like to be called and you will hear the same BS. If your looking to get into the financial industry I say go for it it is truely rewarding to help people in need. However, do it through a company who's training is more than just how to recruit "greenies".
#21
Consumer Comment
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POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
I am not an employee of Primerica. But I did sign up a few months ago to be a rep. Since then, I have resigned but reasons different than what I have read here so far.

I am very, very impressed with their products. I am impressed that they are one of the only, if not the only company that paid out full claims to the families of the victims lost in the Sept. 11 tragedy, within 5 days of receiving the death certificates. Many other insurance companies waffled and claimed that tragedy to be an "Act of War" therefore nullifying their obligation to pay out the claims. Not only that, the Primerica claims were about 4 times what most other insurance companies would have paid out.

I love the company and the potential it has. The reason I quit is because I dislike the person and his wife who were my sponsors to the point that I choose not to work with them and I choose to make sure that they nor anyone above them makes any money off of my work. I will rejoin again after waiting the 6 months, under someone else that I respect very much and yes, that means repaying the $199. But it's so worth it to me.

The Good:
The products

The Bad:
Some of the reps out there with their ethics. They are not supposed to imply that they are offering anyone a job. That's a no-no.

The Ugly:
The fact that they continue to engage in unethical behaviour. I personally wish that consumers report such reps to the head office because often without that, it is hard to discipline or remove them.

For some of the complaints here, I wonder how far back their experiences go, because Primerica has seen some major changes in the last 2 years. Yes, I know the calls of job opps are current and that's unfortunate. But there are some very good, hardworking, ethical reps out there who truly do care about the customer first.
#22
Consumer Suggestion
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Primerica is NOT For everyone.......

Lloyd - Valley Center ()

POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
Thank You for this forum.

I currently work with Primerica Financial Services. As a Personal Financial Analyst.

I would like to comment on the Chanting and Amen etc.
We don't chant at the training sessions but sometimes we cheer.

Most of us have personally experienced abuse by the Financial Industry.

We are mortified at some of the things we see while using the Financial Needs Analysis.
How do you tell a client that the mortgage She has been paying for the past 28years is interest
only and in 2 years (when she wanted to retire) instead she needs to come up with a balloon payment for the original purchase amount?
I guess the real question is, how could you sell
anyone a product like that in the first place?

This brings me to the Amen part.
Primerica and Citigroup stress 3 things.
God
Family
Business
In that order, In God we trust.

Recruiting IS stressed, we are looking for Sharp people, that's probably why YOU were contacted.

We offer the opportunity to everyone, but the Opportunity is not for everyone! As with anything
worthwhile it's a lot of hard work.
Thanks....
#23
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preaching your faith

C - Chicago ()

POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
If they are so holy and do what's right, how come PFS lies, as proven by the following scenario? This was also reported in a separate rip off report.

You may want to look at www.geocities.com/pfs_sux/loan.jpg.

That is documented proof of how Primerica misrepresents their ridiculous refi's.

In short, they compare the check you currently write - which includes P&I, taxes, hazard insurance, and PMI - to the check you would write to PFS - which includes P&I *only*. With PFS, your taxes and insurance would be separate checks. But as the document shows, they misrepresent this difference as an actual savings. It most certainly is not.

Why do they do this? It's becase their loans, even straight refi's to good borrowers, have extremely high interest rates. When that document was scanned, the market was at around 7% for that loan. Look at the PFS rate!! It's at 9%! Of course nobody would take that loan. But PFS's market consists of typically those uneducated in finance. They pull this little trick that I'm talking about, and hope that the borrower doesn't notice that their actualy monthly outlay will be LARGER.

Some PFSers will try to obfuscate this issue with the bi-weekly setup that PFS offers. Don't be fooled! The scanned document misrepresents the loan even prior to pulling the bi-weekly card.

Would you want to go with a lender that misrepresents - even quantifies - their loans that way? This is the first step -- to pretend to save the consumer money. Then they can use this false - but quantified - savings to sell [extra] life insurance and commissioned mutual funds. Do you want to be a part of that?
#24
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God and my money

Andrew - Alexandria ()

POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
Thank you for informing us that citigroup is a monotheistic corporation which places GOD and family before business. I have accounts with citigroup private banking and as of this afternoon I was not aware business was being run out of Lynchberg Virginia.

This afternoon I will contact my bank just to verify which GOD Citigroup employees pray to, and if there is a policy regarding religious beliefs.Hmm, citigroup sends a courier out to my house on occasion, the next time I need foreign currency I'll request a copy of Luthers Freedom of a Christian.

This response is not meant to offend anyone, and it should not, because it is ridiculous, but no more so than stating GOD as the first priority in a business that idolizes CASH!!!

If you wish to help people, try doing it without profit being your motivation. Giving your neighbor a computerized financial analysis and selling insurance is a job, nothing more.If you happen to work hard and do well, great, you made some money, but don't kid yourself into thinking you changed someones life. If you start to question the ethics of your company; well, you may be on to something.

I was invited to a Primerica orientation a few months ago and I'm still impressed with how flawlessly the meeting was executed and how difficult it was for me to leave when I declined the "opportunity". I'm going to write Sandy a thank you this afternoon just to let him know that despite how busy he's been, Primerica is doing a bang up job.
#25
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primerica - they own YOU

zeboolen - birmingham ()

POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
like joinning a mobster gang, you lose all your constitutional rights. you become an slave, a poor one. they are bunch of con-artist and own the judicial system. look at the cases they brought against their own employees.
#26
Employee
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POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
So Lonnie,
You got to work for a different company and make more money? Small wonder since it is certain you now work for a whole life company, or worse a VUL company. Of course you make more now, the company makes more when you sell that crap. Which means what for the client? Less value for the money. Odd how that works out.
It is impossible to go to just any company for term. Why? Because agents like you are trying to cram whole life and VUL's down the clients throat. You won't give the time of day to someone who wants term. Why? Because your company won't pay you as much. Like 10 times less? Or more.

It just makes me laugh to see how people do "research" on a hate site and make up their minds on the basis of incompetent, yet ubiquitous, imbeciles. Why don't you try to get facts instead of listening to negative fools? You actually make up your mind from this???
Its no wonder the world is falling apart.
#27
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POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
L - rigby, Idaho,

So you want to label anything that presents another side a "hate site." What are you a Nazi or a Communist? This is a consumer advocate site and you and everyone else should know that Primerica is part of Citigroup. Early this year we announced the connection with Enron and MCI and now the indictment have been handed down.

Read the other postings. By the way, Traveler's Insurance is part of this upline scam. Perhaps you would like to brand the headlines of every major newspaper in America "hate mongering."

ED Magedson
EDitor@ripoffreport.com
#28
Consumer Comment
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THIS DAMON SALESMAN IS THE DIRTIEST

George - Des Moines ()

POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
my prime erica guy was this one:
Damon Y.

This guy tried to give me high pressures car sales guy technique. He said the things like "Don't you ever want to be successful in life? Aren't you tired of failing?" and "As a friend, I cannot let you leave this office without doing something better for yourself." I said man you is wack and left with my grandmother.

I work at the Zooper Burger on the east side and he offered me a job while I was working at the register. He gave me his number on a peice of paper from his to-go bag. I called him within a week later when I remembered about him.

He seemed pretty spiked, but I've been working at Z.B. for over 6 years and it's not fun anymore. The recruitment "interview" consisted of mostly hispanics and other colored persons while the "making money trainers" were all white. I don't understand why they did not allow any ethnic peoples to become trainers.

Worst of all my grandmama had to wait there with me and listen to the screaming guy until I left because she was my ride.

I best be going now. Bye
#29
Employee
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Jealousy, Jealousy, Jealousy

Jeff - San Diego ()

POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
It sounds to me that there are alot of college grads out there that are a little jealous that Primerica gives highschool graduates or average ordinary everyday people out in the real world struggling, the opportunnity to make more money than they have the ability to make! Sorry people,I know it took alot of hard work to pay for those degrees but if you would put as much time into your own future as you put on this site bashing Primerica, I think you would get those school loans payed off alot sooner! Ok lets get back to work now before the boss catches us......Oh thats right, I dont have a boss...I work when I want..Set my own hours. Maybe its because I have a business system that makes me money even if I'm not there. Good Luck at the 9 to 5.
#30
Employee
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Complaints vs Compliments

DJ - Phoenix ()

POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
Ok. I can see all these complaints here about the methods that Primerica uses ,
but not the company itself: you can't, the company is too well founded in ,yes, it's
mother company Citygroup. All I hear is "thank God I didn't fall for that", or
"Primerica is full of it because it hires inexperienced people". Here's my little story--

I got involved with Primerica in 2001 through my aunt. A Primerica rep had peaked her interest in maybe working for Primerica, and the rep had asked that she attend a meeting. She still being skeptical, invited me to go with her. Me being even more skeptical agreed to attend the meeting. After about TWO MONTHS of watching how it all worked (having no previous
experience in this particular field), I was interested in giving it a try. I gave them my $199 that covered the application and my other expenses.

My aunt who had suggested I go , however, was loosing interest feeling that she "would not make a good salesman".

Then we discovered that the rep that had come to us originally was under question by Primerica

for fraudulent activities which resulted in his termination. So this made her stop going
to meeting altogether which stopped me from going seeing as at the time she was my means of transport to the meetings. I contact Primerica office back and told them up front that I was not able to attend the meetings anymore, they understood and were nice enough.A couple of weeks later I GOT A $199 CHECK IN THE MAIL FROM PRIMERICA ,refunding methat which I had paid them, so in the end my initial experience with this company cost me nothing.

Seeing as I had just moved here (Arizona), it wasn't till about a year later that I was on my feet and had the time and means of transportation. Now I've been back with Primerica for a couple of months and making only a couple thousand a month at my day job, now I'm also putting in about 2 to 3 hours a week into primerica AND IT HAS DOUBLED MY INCOME going on tripling it and that's just me , I've yet to recruit anyone yet that would provide me with a percentage of their earnings.

Primerica does suggest that you focus on recruiting when you are new so that you have a group of people,hopefully people you know like friends or family to go training meeting with. This way you keep each other motivated and I seems to work. So it's not "Don't concentrate on financing and helping clients just recruit others", it's actually more like " Seeing as you're new in the business , bring others in that can come, to class with you and learn about finances and helping clients, WITH YOU". This opens up these opportunities for others

and helps you in the end with extra in come, being a new recruiter.

Bottom line is that yes it all seems farfetched , yes they do mostly tell you the up side in the recruit meeting, yes the methods they use are unorthodox, BUT IT WORKS. The down side being that it does take time. I will be honest with you, if I had been lied to and screwed over by Primerica after the effort I have put into it, both myself and the company would be involved in a serious lawsuit. OK? Any other questions? comments? Some of the criticizing comments that I've read here are actually constructive criticism, but some of the others are not practical ,for instance a previous statement that seemed to portray an orientation meeting like a cult based on cheering and "AMENS" or whatever.This is obviously coming from someone who has never enjoyed the benefits of working for this company.These comments are made by intelligent and competent people, but these comments are lacking logic and open "minded-ness"

Also , my seeing the company firing a rep for fraudulent activity actually impressed me as much and anything else, because I wanted to come into this company to help others with their debt and open a few financial doors for others and make money of course ; however illegal and fraudulent activities will not be tolerated by me.

Thanks
#31
Employee
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Look before you leap into Pittsburg!

Don - Pittsburg (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
"Pittsburg" was not incorrectly spelled in the letter from Fort Scott, KS. Pittsburg, KS is about 40 miles South of Fort Scott. Nowhere was Pennsylvania mentioned to make the association. Pittsburg, CA also lacks the final. "h"

I also have a degree in Finance and became a Primerica agent. I have found my degree to be a hindrance as I have never been able to lower all of the red flags. The emphasis on recruiting is unreal as there are sufficient rewards to recruiting even if most of them fall by the wayside. The biggest reward a new recruit brings is a warm market. Why ask for six references? A new recruit's references are considered the cream of his warm market and a great source of initial training appointments for the recruiter to reach before the new agent becomes life licensed and thus able to share in the commissions.

The rule of 72 is a valid financial rule of thumb, but Primerica neglects to mention that it only works in the short run when the stated annual rates are sufficiently compounded.
#32
Consumer Comment
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DJ I hope that you are proud

Laurence - Bronx (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
Well DJ I am glad that you are making money with Primerica now! You are one of those people who I think are ignorant of their wrongdoings. In your report you stated that you were not familiar with the world of Finance and that you had only been with Primerica for a few months, so how much could you know? The fact that you feel that Primerica meetings are a good place to learn about Finance shows just how little you know. Primerica meetings serve one purpose: to brainwash the uninformed. Additionally, the fact that you think that it is acceptable to say Amen at meetings shows that your knowledge of business etiquette leaves much to be desired.

Another issue that was addressed earlier was the that of racism. The person who stated earlier that he thought the make-up of the meetings was strange was absolutely right. Someone with a Master's Degree should not be competing for the same job as somebody who is a delivery boy. If anyone is racist, it is Primerica. Primerica targets minorities from poor neighborhoods and then sells them a pipe dream. Primerica knows that 99% of these recruits will fail, because they lack the proper education or the necessary skills to sell important products such as life insurance and mutual funds to middle class Americans. What is worse is that they lie to these people and then get them to sell inferior products to their family and freinds!
#33
Consumer Comment
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POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
Okay, I was contacted about two weeks ago to come to a 'group' interview. I had been to three before, and each of them were door-to-door selling jobs. I was a bit leary about it, but figured CitiFinancial is where I got my car loan from, I have three CitiGroup credit cards, and what the heck, right? So I went to the group interview and was a little disturbed by what I saw. I walked in and was hugged by a woman right off the bat. About 20 minutes later I found out that she was the one that had called to recruit me. I did not think to ask where she got my resume from, but I had been out of work for about six months, so it could have been anywhere. I sat down for the presentation, and right before it started, I was handed a packet of 'information' which really wasn't information at all. It was just the same catch phrases throughout with a bit of mumbojumbo thrown in. My hope for a new job started to fade. The presentation began and a man started talking about 'how great it would be to be financially independent and set for retirement'. He explained that he had been 22 years old when Primerica contacted him and by the time he was 24, he was a vice-president making 200,000 dollars a year. (I read a few ripoff reports that all had the same description of the presenter being 24 years old making 200,000 dollars a year. They can't ALL be 24 years old making the SAME amount, can they???) I was a bit naive during the presentation and heard the man out. What I should have done is gotten up and walked out. As soon as he stopped talking, I felt a hand on my shoulder, gripping tightly. I turned around and there was the recruiter, ready to talk over my application. I had written only 2 personal references because of the lack of address book, but she pushed for more family members and I ended up giving her the names, addresses, and phone numbers of EIGHT! I thought this a bit odd, but was still naive. I went home and excitedly told my fiance and parents about the opportunity. My fiance thought it was great. My mother, however, had a totally different opinion and tried to get in contact with a friend that had tried Primerica at one time. She wasn't able to contact that friend, but within the two weeks since the group meeting, the agent/recruiter has called my house SIXTEEN times wanting to come to my house for a financial analysis. THIS I found to be extremely odd, and never gave her a time and date. I wanted to be SURE of what this really was before I had someone in my house. Tonight she called and said she was a block away from my house and wanted to know if it was okay if she 'stop by and talk for a minute'. I told her absolutely not, and decided it was time to look on the internet and see if this is what I am beginning to think it is. I am very glad that someone started this forum on Primerica's fraudulent recruiting tactics. Now let's hope that this lady doesn't stalk me...
#34
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If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is

Sarah - Laguna Beach (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
I was just recently "recruited" by a local representative who caught me while I was drinking wine. He loaded my head with great praise about meeting me at my current job, and was so impressed with my "customer service" ability. I will take the praise, as I truely believe I do have great attributes that I can offer a "company". One of the main questions I kept asking was "Executive Vice President?". I was reassured that there is an interviewing process that I would need to be involved in, and as well there was "thorough training to allow me to learn all facets of running my own office". WOW! My own office, my own team SOUNDS AMAZING!! Sort of like the old saying "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is". There was a little voice through my wine haze that kept telling me, this is really strange.... Executive Vice President of an office? I think after reading this website and reading the strange ideals that this company holds, I will place my time towards an actual "company" where I will receive a dependable form of income, benefits, and a potential to grow like normal life gives. If I am missing the boat with Primerica, OH WELL!! I guess I just can't convince myself of being a part of something that doesn't sound very tangible. If I want to be a part of a Pyramid scheme, I will go to Egypt and check 'em out!
#35
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Primerica is a SCAM No matter what anyone says

Christopher - Akron (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
Why is it that no one mentions once that the person who started PRIMERICA is nothing more than the worlds largest scam artist. To those employed by PRIMERICA: How many times was Al indicted in Federal Court before he changed the name of the company to PRIMERICA. Say what you will but the fact of the matter is, your company lives and dies on the ill fortunes of others and it IS a pyramid scheme through and through. And everyone of you attacked this gentlemen when even I did not sense he was being malicious in any way. That is how you work.

Anytime someone doubts the validity of your scam you attack like sharks in a wading pool of seals. Why do I know this: Because I too was baited into this scam about ten years ago. They bait you in, then once they think they have you they offer you this self-help manual and that self-help tape set. Only to be sure they haven't wasted any precious time with you.

PRIMERICA is a joke! I CHALLENGE ANY ONE OF YOU PRIMERICA EMPLOYEES (AND YOU TOO MR. OWNER TO DEBATE THIS SUBJECT ANY TIME ANY PLACE. GOOD DAY.
#36
Consumer Comment
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POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
Primerica is a rip-off company. In fact, when i went for the "BIG" interview (by the way, they told me only a few select people would be recommended for this "big" meeting. complete bull.....EVERYONE is recommended to the meeting), after the interview ended, I was there filling out papers, and a guy said come with me, and took me to a room where other people were there giving out their credit card info!!!! they were interested in the classes....and i asked the guy do i get the job? and he said, "oh, yea Dave said you were one of the ones he picked". BULL!!! Dave was one of the hot shots that conducted the meeting, and not once did he speak to anyone after the meeting ended.

I didn't even know if I got the job and they were asking for credit card info!!!! I'm telling you....these guys are slick. They'll reel you in and you dont even know it until you're calling the credit card company and disputing the charge. And the idiot i talked to said "i only work 2 days a week and i make 3 grand a month". BULL!!!

I know all about the lecture they give......it's the same all over....."LARGEST COMPANY IN THE WORLD.....FORTUNE 500......1 TRILLION DOLLARS STRONG.....BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH." IT'S UTTER BULL.

I MEAN THE initial INTERVIEW LASTED LIKE 5 MINUTES!!! IF YOU'RE SMART, YOU WONT RETURN THEIR CALLS. IT'S THE SAME OLD THING, "OUR COMPANY IS JUST EXPLODING RIGHT NOW INTO ALL KINDS OF NEW THINGS, AND WE'RE LOOKING FOR PEOPLE LIKE YOU TO HEAD THESE OFFICES IN YOUR AREA. YEA....IT'S REALLY DYNAMIC!!!"

THAT'S WHAT THEY'LL TELL YOU....IN FACT, THE GUY THAT CALLED ME WAS CALLING FROM A COMMUNITY COLLEGE, AND WHEN I CALLED THE COLLEGE AND ASKED FOR THIS PERSON, THERE WAS NO RECORD OF HIM.....STUDENT OR PROFESSOR.

THESE GUYS PROBABLY CALL FROM A PAY PHONE AND READ FROM THEIR SCRIPTS. DO NOT GIVE THEM ANYTHING!!!! IF YOU WANT TO GO TO THE MEETINGS, YOU'RE STUPID. AND ALL THESE IDIOTS THAT SAY, "PRIMERICA IS A GREAT COMPANY!!! I'M MAKING TONS OF MONEY JUST COMING TO WORK 3 DAYS A WEEK!!!" THEY'RE THE SAME IDIOTS THAT CONDUCT THESE INTERVIEWS.

IF YOU GO TO THE MEETING, BRING COPIES OF ALL THE RIP-OFF REPORTS TO THE MEETING AND PASS THEM OUT.....SEE WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY THEN!!!! PLEASE DON'T INVEST IN THIS COMPANY.....IT'S HARD EARNED MONEY THAT YOU'RE THROWING AWAY, AND THEY'RE HAPPY AT THE END OF THE DAY THAT THEY SUCKERED SOME POOR IDIOT INTO THEIR SCHEME. TAKE MY ADVICE AND FIND RESPECTABLE WORK.
#37
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I too heard the amens

Janna - Avondale (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
I was recruited by my husband's friend. we went to a meeting and it did sound good at first. But as the weeks went on the pressure to recruit mounted. The calls from them increased to the point of harrassment.

At one point they asked for my list to recruit my friends for me. I told them no, I do not want my friends called using my name as an opener. To me this was a glorified way to telemarket.

The people I did approach did not have the interest in Primarica and I started feeling cheesy. Still the calls continued.."you need to get some names..three more..you will never advance until you get more people to come to our meetings" We went to a second meeting where we were in a different room from the first meeting group.

There was more explained as to how to recruit. The paper said " Show enthusiasm when you bring new people to their first meeting. Amens or yes or nodding your head encourages people to be more interested because you are interested." We opted not to become involved but still the calls continued.

"How about the refinance of your home?" I had told them many times that I just was not interested because my rate was at 6.75% Finally I had to be rude to get them off my back. MY husbands so called "friend?" have not heard a word from him since.
#38
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Primerica-a few simple points

Harry - Wind Gap (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
1)You are not being hired as an employee with a guaranteed salary or hourly wage

2) Your "references" are going to be harassed/pressed/pressured and conned into purchasing life insurance,auto insurance, homeowners insurance, mortgages, possibly securities all at non competitive rates AND you will be one of the people fleecing them.

3)You will be bethe one paying $199 for the privelege in being trained. However you won't be reimbursed for the time, money and travel expenses incurred while being trained to make Primerica money.

4)Just imagine going to McDonald's filling out what you think is a job application and having your new employer call your references and interview ALL 6 or more of them for the same job you went for in the first place and paying $199 for the opportunity to recruit others to do the same thing.

5) If you are having financial diffuculties look for a NON profit counseling service to help you or go to someone else who doesn't have a financial incentive to help you.

6) To be clear there are Primerica agents making real money, I know quite a few of them. Be just as clear they aren't selling the cheapest products on the market.

In my opinion, Primerica is an unethical multilevel marketing scam. If you are looking for a real opportunity in financial services look elsewhere.
#39
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same bs interview

Brock - Ramsey (Albania)

POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
I was also contacted by a "recruiter" saying that he had been given my name for a "position" open in the area. I was expecting that it would be something in my field, and I do a lot of networking so I felt I should check it out.

I told friends and family that I was being "recruited" for a job and I was excited to see what type of oppurtunity it was, and for what company it was.

When I talked with the "recruiter" on the phone I was told to come in and the position would be explained to me. I traveled an hour to make it to this meeting, and when I showed up, I was very puzzled.

I was met by 4 people and than brought to a room. 3 of the 4 people (it ended up that they were already with primerica) sat in on the presentation.

As soon as it started I just thought to myself "what kind of hoax did i get into here?" They pressed for information on from my and the $199 payment than and there so I told them I didnt have my checkbook because I felt trapped.

All in all I was very diappointed and misled, and I was expecting a job in my field rather than the long boring session of bs that I was forced to watch and act interested in.
#40
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Primerica- a balanced view

Darrick - Round Rock (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
If you take a few minutes to do an internet search on just about any company, you will find consumer complaint sites. This is especially true of many financial companies that live and die based upon personal relationships of their representatives and clients.

I have been involved with the company for a long time (around 8 years). Periodically, I take a look at postings on sites such as these and it is always the same thing both for and against Primerica. At the end of the day there are 2 distinct issues that people seem to have challenges with the idea of recruiting sales reps (the MLM factor, and in some cases a product may not be the most appropriate for a particular situation.

The Opportunity:

There are very specific guidelines on what disclosures should be made and when. Primerica is very serious about sanctioning those that violate the rules. If you have a legitimate complaint call 770-381-1000 (Primerica's main switchboard) and ask for the compliance section. However, do not waste your time if you are merely offended that someone would suggest that you start at the bottom and work your way up.

Primerica is built for people that do not have all the skills and options to create significant financial abundance for their families. For the 'pretty people' with the fancy degrees (myself included- BS Mech Engr from a top school) there is still a great opportunity to develop a great business funded through internal growth instead of going out and piling up tons of debt for the chance to make it in business. The fact of the matter is that this type of sales business is very competitive and has an extremely high washout rate. According to some industry studies I have seen published 90%+ of all people who enter the investment, insurance & real estate fields are working in a completely different field within 3 years! However, those that make it have higher average earnings than all career fields other than law & medicine (1990 Census).

While many reps in the field look down their nose at the recruiting concept, their bosses at the main office are trying to figure out how to get their troops busy helping to recruit more representatives. I am looking at an advertisement for a mortgage company (not affiliated with Citi or Primerica) that offers the same commission payout as our firm along with 'Team Building Opportunities for Residual Income'. The largest real estate company in our area does exactly the same thing. Amazingly, I have had dozens of representatives from other financial services companies make a negative comment about 'all you guys do is recruiting' and in the next breath launch into their own recruiting pitch about why I should come to work with their company! Hmmmmm :-)

All sales oriented companies recruit and get their sales force to help them, especially financial services companies. When executed properly, the role of the new representative is to learn the business of financial services and the business of running an agency. At the same time, the role of the experienced representative is to act as trainer and mentor while recruiting and building a team for his/her new reps. Unfortunately in Primerica (as well as most MLM type businesses) there are lots of excited & motivated people that still need more training and direction.

To offer the services Primerica offers is very challenging as a business model for most companies. Take our life insurance product for example. Most companies pay full commission rates on cash value type insurance (Whole life, UL, VUL). However, they pay discounted rates on their cheaper term products (typically 1/2 or less the commission rate paid on cash value insurance). Here is a personal example in my case:

$100,000 Whole life insurance $1,200/year premium
$100,000 Term life insurance $250/year premium

Now the agent makes $1,200 selling the whole life policy, but makes maybe $125 selling the 'expensive' term life policy!

Primerica markets term 100% of the time (please no posts about old policies that were converted to whole life due to terminal illnesses, I know at least 2 have existed in the past). If I were the cash value company, I would almost give away my term coverage also since I do not sell much of it anyway (86% of all new life insurance is cash value of some sort).

Either the opportunity is of interest or it is not. Primerica or anywhere else, there are numerous positives and negatives. Check out some of the postitives @ www.primerica.com

Visit the pressroom section and see what publications like:

AM Best Magazine

Success Magazine

American Banker

Money Magazine

Atlanta Business Chronicle

Investment Executive (Canadian)

have to say about this company and what we do. Locally, our office is one of the top investment managers in terms of assets in our metro area! (www.bizjournals.com/austin)

By the way, the guy that started the whole thing Art Williams is in Forbes Magazine every year as one of this country's richest Americans and he was just a football coach that started selling part-time to supplement his meager coaching income, and he even had a college degree!!

The Products:

High quality versus lowest cost??? Which one do you normally choose?

I review a website periodically on insurance rates to see where Primerica stacks up (www.term4sale.com). Surprise!! We are never the cheapest, but we are typically competitive. After putting in several scenarios, you note a few things:
1) There are groupings of rates based on the features of the policies
2) You have to make sure you are comparing apples to apples (which is nearly impossible even when you know what you are doing)
3) What you are quoted may or may not be what you end up with

As to the last comment, I attended a seminar put on by a competing company about marketing one of their products. Their pricing scheme was to do very competitve quotes, have the individual go through underwriting, and then disclose the adjustments when the policy was delivered. Usually, there was not a big difference from other competitive policies, but with 1600+ insurance companies out there, how many times is a person going to get poked and prodded just to get some coverage?

Investments- We offer the sames mutual funds that most other marketing groups offer with the same pricing mechanisms available. In a recent industry publication, of the 10 most respected mutual fund companies, we offer 9 of them.

Loans- I am glad that we moved out of the business of trying to justify higher rates because of our unique features (actually some S&Ls offer similar features if you ask).
When you are doing a consolidation mortgage, it is almost a sin (sorry for the religious overtone) not to accelerate the principal payment with some of the actual money freed up (sometimes the 'conditional loan worksheets to contain PITI instead of PI, however, that is addressed when plugging the numbers into the actual proposal for the client). This changes the whole picture of what a loan actually costs!
Most lenders apply principal reduction payments, but do no re-amortize the loan with the extra payments. Hence, until they do recalculate the balance and the interest due, the borrower is overpaying. The bigger the acceleration, the bigger the overpayment. I know this is hard to envision unless you write out the numbers, but as I said this is not much of an issue as our rates are very competitve for a given borrowers situation most of the time (I know because I check with other companies)!

Price really is only an issue in the absence of value! Otherwise, how do you explain all those people riding around in $50,000+ H2s when a nice $35,000 SUV would do just fine.

Seriously, the issue is are you willing to pay for the extras that you get. If the representative cannot explain the extras, then he/she does not deserve your business. If extras like guaranteed convertablity/renewability without medical qualification at the end of your insurance term are not important, then buy a cheaper plan that does not include them. If you are a do it yourself investor, then go do your research and buy no-load mutual funds or make $5 trades on the internet. If you have the same mortgage with the same re-amortization guidelines and debt elimination gameplan, then obviously purchase it.

However, what I have found repeatedly is that when there are glaring pricing differences, it is normally because of differences in product or situation and not price gouging and the like. Somehow we have developed 6 million+ clients over the past 25 years that are still on the books and they are not all representatives as we only have 150,000-200,000 currently.
#41
Consumer Comment
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POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
Primerica doesn't "free up" any money. Seriously, think of the class of people you're supposedly helping -- lower middle to middle middle class. Most likely, they don't have their own life insurance. So you can't "free up" money by selling them term because it's an additional expense. If they did have life insurance, it would probably be term insurance, in which case you'd most likely be replacing it with something both inferior and more expensive. Even if they did have cash value AND replacement was warranted (which your analysts are unable to determine due to lack of education), Primerica would be far too expensive anyway.

Even if your analysis survives all this, then you have to turn to the ridiculous, subversive loan tactics used by the company. In most cases, the interest rate quoted will be FAR higher, and will be justified because of the ability to make extra payments. Consumers should find the LOWEST rate and fees, and if they choose to make extra payments they can.

But saying it's unequivocally a "sin" to not make extra payments? Please. Why would you encourage a consumer to take a 30-year loan and then make them pay it off in 15 or fewer? Why wouldn't they seek a 15-year loan along with its associated lower interest rate?

And the advantage isn't as great as you portray it to be, due to the tax savings on a house. Of course, you wouldn't INcrease your loan term for tax advantage, but you have to consider it when determining where to put your money.

All in all, Primerica should not be giving out their brand of advice.
#42
Ex-Employee
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Think what you will

Tim - Conyers (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
I just wanna say that there ARE some of you people in Primerica that aren't concerned with helping people (as is one of your main points in recruiting)

I wasted my time and money to go to PSU and prepared to take the certification test for my license. I'll be honest, it was very interesting. I learned a lot while i dealt with Primerica.

BUT....the one thing i didnt like was my sponsor wanted me to attend EVERY meeting held. I felt like he was trying to brainwash me. it was the same recruitment videos, the same speeches, the same sales pitches.... WHY? I didnt wanna waste my time hearing repetitive BS. I like to do something thats either relaxing or productive. Going to ongoing repetitive meetings is NEITHER. Why waste all that time holding meetings when you could be out recruiting or selling more of your services? I even went to Washington DC with my sponsor (out of my own pocket) from Atlanta for one of these meetings. I thought it would be important, but dammit I felt like I was in a southern baptist church! No offense to any baptists out there (I was raised in a baptist church) but seeing all these adults have all these pep rallies to work is hilarious to me. Its nice to have motivation, but these ( I will no longer call them meetings, they are what they are.... Pep Rallies) pep rallies in my opinion are for people that have no self motivation what so ever and are weak minded. Do I wanna goto a pep rally or make money? Id rather make money. a few here and there is fine but why stress going to all of them if its the same repeated material?

I am the type of person that doesnt like to talk about doing things. If I want to do it , I do it. Dont give me a 30 minute explanation for a yes/no question, give me the answer and move along to the next topic.

THE main thing that makes me angry is that when it came to the end of my dealings with Primerica my sponsor brought over another person to train when he came over to show my wife what Primerica was all about, I was cool with that it didn't bother me as we all have to learn from somewhere. He sat down and we started talking business, mostly for my wife as she at that point was still not fully informed what Primerica does. He went through the "Presentation" (sales-pitch call it what you will) and my wife was interested. Then came the point where I was supposed to buy life insurance. All this time the main selling point was "Helping people". At this point I had looked at my finances and had a get-out-of-debt plan and was actually AHEAD of schedule. I politely declined purchasing the life insurance. I had sufficiant life insurance for cheaper than Primerica offers and the sponsor knows this. I explain to him that my wife and I are doing well in our plans and are ahead of schedule on getting out of debt, but once again he insists that I purchase life insurance. I once again remind him I do not need aditional life insurance and remind him that he was just there to explain to my wife (as a friend) how the Primerica system worked as she was worried as I was all of a sudden am away from home and going out of town and she wanted to understand what I was doing. He at that point wanted to pursuade buying life insurance again, explaining that I could not sell a product that I do not use. At this point i whole heartedly agreed with him, and explained that in March my bills would all be caught up and i would be out of debt (What Primerica is supposed to do for you, get yuou out of debt) and at that point i would invest in life insurance, but at this point i was steadily focused on getting out of debt. Now is when he slapped me in the face. He told me (in my own house, in front of my wife) quote:"Well if you aren't going to buy life insurance then i'm not even going to waste my time with you. I won't allow you to "Represent" Primerica if you dont buy life insurance". I asked " I thought you were going to show me how to get out of debt, wasnt that what you said? Well I'm not going to waste my time. Whats the answer? Of course i said no. and he packed up his presentation and left me hanging there, and I'm surprised i didnt slap him for being so ignorant. At that point I looked at my wife while she stared blankly at me ( i know what was going through her mind ... " I told you it was a scam" ) and told her, well thats the end I guess.

I'm sorry but that is rediculous, I will help you out of debt for free, and you can be my sales partner and you can make money too!!! (reads fine print) .... ONLY if you buy life insurance from me.

And seeing this one representative makes me sick. not only do I have to see him in the office, but he is RARELY even there (which would be fine if he got paid hourly, or even quit but neither of those are the case as he is paid CONTRACT SALARY by taxpayers AND HIS CONTRACT IS STILL ACTIVE!)

If I needed church I'd goto church.

If I want to make money I'd go and do it, not wasting time talking about it.

If i need to get out of debt, I'll stay away from Primerica.

Not that im saying you cant make money in Primerica, but the antics of this one individual left me with a raunchy taste in my mouth and i can never look at Primerica the same way again... help people ... heh heh what a load of bull.
#43
Consumer Comment
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Desperate Recruiting at College Career Fair

Richard - Selinsgrove (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
It has been awhile so I don't remember all the details. I would have more bad to say if I did, though.

About a year ago I came across a booth at a job fair held at the university I was attending. Anyway, when I asked what they did he told me that they trained managers. I was looking for a programming position and was surprised that they would be interested in training someone from the ground up. I had taken business courses but they were definitely not my primary focus. I didn't understand how someone without any real job experience, especially in the field of finance, and no experience supervising workers could become a manager. If it is that easy why recruit college graduates at all when a high school graduate would have lower salary expectations and would welcome training in a new field.

The booth and recruiter also made sure to point out Primerica's connection to Citigroup. It fif lend Primerica some initial credibilty in my opinion, but the information given by the recruiter was vague. He didn't even mention "helping people with their financial problems" focus i've read about here. I'm not sure I would want anyone helping me with financial problems just because they attended a few seminars. After realizing I wasn't going to get any real information from him, I put my name and phone number on the list and was then asked to attend a meeting that weekend.

I figured right away that I didn't want anything to do with Primerica. Becoming a manager wasn't really appealing to me, and it also came across as something too good to be true.

After missing the meeting I started to receive numerous calls from Primerica. I never actually took the calls, but they went on for about 2 weeks. Any company calling you every day to get you to work for them is suspect, especially in this economy. If the opportunity was legit they would have no trouble hiring people.

Keep in mind that I have no experience with the companies business practices or its services. I am only relating my experiences with their recruitment process. It reminded me a lot of the language the MLM zombies i've come across have used.

BUT, judging from the comments on here, you would think the employees are working for Greenpeace the way they attack others for not changing people's lives. You also get the anti-intellectual vibe when they claim the college graduates are just jealous that a non college graduate makes more money than they do. How much do you want to bet these ideas were firmly implanted at Primerica seminars?
#44
Ex-Employee
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POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
First I would like to respond to the rebuttal titled "Think what you will". This person is right on about what typically happens at Primerica once they are able to initially recruit you.

I was recruited by a close family friend who had been recently brain-washed by the Primerica format for such. She introduced me to the RVP's (Regional Vice President)at this office,and there were 3 of them. Which I thought was odd since, they kept talking about needing to open up seperate offices. If so, why dont each of these RVP's have their own office? Everyone seemed so friendly and accomodating of whatever my questions were. They seemed to have what I believed at the time, were fact and data based answers. I felt that their meetings were informative and provided me with enough substansiation of their claims that it might be worth trying. After all, I was looking for an opportunity to bring in extra income without having to totally quit my day job in the medical field.

I was still fairly new to the area. I expressed my concern that I didnt know enough people, to recruit the number of people that they "guaranteed" would make me successful. They explained that other "agents" were barely able to keep up with all of thier contacts and would provide me with call-lists. All of the RVp's and higher level agents with cool nicknames like "The Captain", the "Finance Mogul", and "our own Investment Guru" kept telling me that Primerica does not believe in cold-calling or getting leads from the Yellow Pages. THIS WAS COMPLETELY FALSE!

Throughout all of my meetings that I went to and the coutless Saturdays that I wasted hearing the same thing over and over again, I kept detailed notes of everything that addressed my "hot-button". How do I make what you guys first told me I can if I can be "coachable"? "Coachable" was one of their many favorite catch-words or phrases.
Repeatedly, they spoke about how much money the Associate Personal Financial Analyst (APFA) will make, so long as they recruited a certain number of people. Their rewards system was based on people recruited, and very little on actual business done.

After attending the classes, and finally taking the test, which I passed the first time as they said their classes would prepare me for. I did some shopping around for Life Insurance and compared that to what I had to sell the Primerica Term Life products for. I quickly realized that I can get insurance for half, and in some cases a third of what Primerica told me I had to sell it for.

Not only was this discouraging, but I was told that I was "certified" to sell Mortage Refinancing after watching a video that described how to properly fill out the forms. I even received a letter from Primerica corporate congratulating me for becoming a mortage certified PFA. The first thing that I thought was that I was the last person that I would want involved in my own mortage or the refinancing of. I had no knowledge of the mortgage or home financing industry.

I was not at all comfortable trying to get someone to refinance their house through me. After all, that is a long term loan situation that most likely the unassuming homeowner will have to live with for a long time. There was always the so-called "office" which Primerica tells us to say whenever our mortage or insurance credentials were questioned.

The canned response is "Well, I have an entire office that works just for me. I have Insurance, Mortgage and Investment professionals who will take care of your financial needs. I am simply a conduit for your helping you to gain financial control and freedom" If anyone believes that then I have some ocean-front property here in Colorado to sell them.
#45
Consumer Suggestion
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Does this at all really matter

Garrett - Thornton (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
In the entire sting of rebuttals and comments, I can't help the fact that 90% of all the "rebuttals" is just personal experiences of being mislead in one form or another to be a part of the business. Whereas very little talked about what the company, as a whole, actually does for the middle-class consumer, And that is to simply educate consumers on a financial level. Those that are big in company take this to heart first and it does show. Then there are those who look at the money first and hence...what is being posted here is a result.

No one can rebut the fact that alot of the financial concepts taught by PFS is not taught in schools. If it were, then society as a whole would not be in dire straits as it is today from a personal finance perspective, wouldn't that be true?

Answer me this, when in school (high school or college) does it teach about different mortgages and how to read closing documents, truth-in-lending, etc? About how to find the best mutual fund for your savings goals? About the different types of life insurance policies on the market? About how to get control of credit and debt? The different types of retirement vehicles (401(k), SEP, IRA, etc)? Is any of this taught in school?

I do feel for some of you that had negative experience with PFS, but your situations are VERY rare and minimal as a whole. Meaning that even though PFS has strict compliance guidelines for all its represenative, there are going to be those that stray from it and you would become victim to it. However, there are a greater number in PFS that does comply and does the right thing for the consumer.

I look around this web site and see that there are other large companies that some people whine about like Wal-Mart, Circuit City, BP, Pizza Hut, etc. All are very large and successful companies, right? So just because some had a problem, does that mean you're not going to go to Wal-Mart anymore? What, am I not supposed to go to BP for gas anymore? All just because a few of you have a little problem with them. I've come across bad car salesmen before, that does not mean I'm not going to buy a car, should it?

But, we all have the right to freedom of speech. That's what my grandfather, father, and I fought to preserve anyway.

As far as PFS is concerned...learn about what the company does first, then talk. And remember this: DOGS DON'T BARK AT PARKED CARS! Think about it.
#46
Employee
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POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
First off, I would like to apologize for any of our representatives that have given any of you false or misleading information about Primerica Financial Services. There are many offices throughout the United States and Canada, and unfortunately, some of the people who run them are not honest. Sadly, that's just a fact of life.

I would like to provide some answers to some of the questions that were raised in these articles.

Primerica is not a pyramid. A pyramid scheme is illegal, and involves people at the bottom of the scheme losing some very high amounts of money. For information about pyramid schemes, also known as Ponzi schemes, you can search Yahoo, or any Internet search engine. Primerica is, in fact, a multi-level marketing company (MLM). MLMs have had a bad reputation thanks to a few companies in the past doing things that were unethical and sometimes illegal. What Primerica offers is legal, ethical, and makes sense to the consumer.

The McDonalds example is a paraphrase from a book called "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" by Robert Kiyosaki. In short, the reference is that McDonalds is sells hamburgers as a profession, but is involved in real estate as a business. The information that we try to pass is that owning your own business and "going wide" with it is just about always your best bet in terms of financial gain.

Recruiting is a very big part of Primerica. We recruit people to help an increasing community that is financially ignorant. Ignorance is the lack of knowledge, and our purpose is to educate our clients and help them at the same time. Our best recruiting efforts are those who are also our clients. However, we also try to recruit people who we believe would do well in our business.

Our products are all financial, legal, and very good. Could you find something better? Probably. However, I would recommend you know exactly what you are doing before undertaking anything like that. What we do, as representatives, is help our clients organize their finances based on their needs and dreams, rather than their incomes. Most of us are disillusioned with the traditional financial advice we have been given over the years, and we pass on our information to others.

In response to some of the other posts, term insurance is the best insurance product for the consumer over 99% of the time. Ask a representative why, and they should give you three detailed reasons which are too long to go into. Our mortgage product, generally used as a refinance option, is introduced as long term (20 years plus). What we do is show our clients how to get rid of that debt earlier so that they are out of all debt, and can achieve what they want, instead of what someone else wants.

In closing, I would like to write my personal reflections regarding Primerica. I have been involved with Primerica for a while, and the people who stay in the business are generally those with the strongest appetites for helping others. Positivity is encouraged, positive actions are recognized. I can't say I love the company, because I know better. I can say that I love the people I work with, I love the values that the company stands for, and I love the idea that I can help people out of what I believe is unethical.

A note to those who are Primerica epresentatives, I will see all of you in Atlanta this June. Look me up if you'd like--the office I work out of is the third page in the "Golden Eagles" book.
#47
Ex-Employee
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Not a Pyramid? What else do you call it?

Al - Arlington Heights, (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
This is in respoce to the last comment made by Brian on 3/11/03. If you clearly understand a definition of MLM - Multi Level Marketing, you will see that this is a Pyramid scheme which is illegal in the United States. and you, sir, just publicly admitted that your company is involved in illegal business practices withing United States. Any lawers and prosecutors out there?
#48
Ex-Employee
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POSTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
NOT ONE OF THE REPS ABOVE KNOW what they are talking about. The concept of Primerica is to buy basics (like term life insurance, pay off mortgage) and invest the rest. It is the perfect concept, however the company tip~toes' around it. And what about the jobs (work positions)?

I used to work for with Primerica. I want to address two problems. The first being 2 BIG MISreprsentations, one, Primerica reps dont tell you that you can pay off a mortgage in 22 years for a 30 year loan, and 12 years for a 15 year loan by just adding one full payment to your mortgage year. IN SHORT, for a company that is supposed to help you out of debt, some reps sure do not give you much education that can help you wether you do business with them or not.

The other issue is that the company does not let you know that you can make 2 - 10 times more working for another company. They preach that you can work part time and make good money, even from home. But TRUTH IS, you can do all these things from home if a company will let you. Just about any insurance company will let you work from home. You can be a sales or loan agent for mortgages from home (and make much more). Many work both out of office and home. Many people who do securites(investments) work out of home. My CPA offers simular services and she works from home. So if you like these fields Primerica offers, you may be able to do it without Primerica.

The company does have some really good products in the finacial servies area. I found that my mutual funds and IRA's obtained more increases in aggressive markets than any other I have used. If you look at the after Sept. 11 reports of stocks for companies and compare it to how stocks did for comparitive companies, Citibank/Citigroup's stock stayed strong, even into the next year when all other stocks were hitting rock bottom or negitives.

The problem is that this is the only good product they offer in my mind (but with all the Enron and other questionable associations, who knows). Life insurance can be bought cheaper, and if you pay attention, you will notice that the cost for it goes up higher than the norm for aging years. In the long run, you pay more in my opinion with Primerica.

Also, the second problem is that the refi's they do are no good. This stuff about simple interest on higher interest rates is not at all comfortable to market. Although if you pay attention, the idea is to pay Primerica principal and interest, and take insurance and taxes and pay yourself. The way to do it is to set up a mutual fund for at least the amount, and keep the interest instead of letting the banks do it. Its not a scam. You just have to be clear if this situation works for you.

Another problem is that as an agent, you find all your own leads, and then you do the coorespondance on the loan, all the processing, sales, rates, and closing almost from start to finish. The only not really done by you is the approval sent to a citibank underwriter, and the closing end where primerica pays a notary public to complete the paper work. My wife works with the mortgage industry and each section has a position and title. So you get paid $400 lousy bucks to do alone, the work of 6 people.

I found out that, in normal mortgage industry standards; as a LOAN OFFICER, you get most your leads provided to you. As a green thumb, Primerica gives you only about 400 - 1000 on a $100,000 refi; but industry stanards are higher. For example, where my wife currently works, the sales team, as a loan(sales) officer, they make $2000 base and 700 to 2000+ on a single loan, and unlike Primerica, all their leads are provided. At her company, the top guy does more than 50 on average a month, and he don't have to stand in the rain or 120 degree heat to find a lead. I was STARVING my family trying to stay out, recruiting at libraries, the net, parks, supermarkets, and everywhere just for one lead, and hoping they had something I could offer them in a product. When I found out that the pay from Primerica was unfair, I then knew.

Besides this, Primerica is very MLM. It is not a scam, it is a good idea that needs refining. Unlike my friends who had thousands before Sept. 11 and now have pennies, I am glad that the one thing Primerica got right is their securities areas. To make a long story short, if you need work and want to work for yourself, Primerica may be for you, but if you are just shopping for financial products; just like a supermarket, or department store; shop around, and if the product fits your needs, then get it.
#49
Consumer Comment
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POSTED: Friday, March 14, 2003
Let's get a few things clear here.

1) Primerica products are NOT priced competitively. It is very common to be able to beat their prices by 30% or so. That is not competitive

2) The majority of life insurance sold is term insurance (by face value) by a long shot. Even by reps at so-called "whole-life" companies. To say that 86% of new insurance is cash value of some sort is just plain wrong.

3) Primerica mortgages are expensive. You can obtain much better rates and repayment terms through a mortgage broker.

4) The FNA given to the client is not a financial plan, and contains only a fraction of the information a properly prepared financial plan provides. To somehow insinuate you could compare the two is ridiculous.

5) To the poster who insinuated in a previous post that he is in finance in college and thinks Primerica is a better proposition than other financial services companies, why exactly? I have an extensive background in finance and I cannot fathom how you would come to that conclusion. You think a finance degree gives you the ability to evaluate a VUL policy? Right.

6) Whether you like it or not, Primerica agents do not own their clients. They do not own their own business. Read the contract that is signed.

7) To say that going to opportunity meetings and Primerica University (or whatever they call it) gives you an education in personal finance is like saying that reading the directions on a bottle of Advil educates you to practice medicine. The meetings are designed to encourage sales, not knowledge.

8) To say that 99% of the time term insurance is the right choice is irrelevant to any insurance decision. It is either right for you or it isn't. It doesn't matter what your neighbour bought. Unfortunately, at Primerica you will not be given an option, because there are not any options. And to say that every other company will just try to sell you permanent is garbage. "Whole-Life" insurers are always heavily promoting their term products. I sell far more term insurance than permanent, and almost all the brokers I know are in the same boat.

9) Primerica's main requirement to be offered an "opportunity" with the company seems to be the ability to breathe. I have encountered numerous Primerica agents who should never have considered a "career" with the company. In addition, you would think the company would have some concern over its' public image. If you owned a company, wouldn't you be concerned with its' public image?

10) Primerica is not Citigroup, and vice versa. As a financial services company, Primerica is not one of the biggest. AIG is big, ING is big, AXA is big, Primerica is not so big. If Primerica employees insist on calling themselves the biggest company, then they need to deal with Citigroup's negative features (predatory lending, lawsuits, etc...) You can't just pick and choose what applies.

11) To look at the Primerica site's "Press Room" will not bolster the situation. For example, one poster mentioned a positive report in "Investment Executive" in Canada. It would interest anyone to know how selective they were in quoting from the article and others in the paper, which was regarding brokers rating the companies they worked with. It had nothing to do with whether they are a good company. It cast a negative light on the fact that Primerica agents were captive and that they were DEAD LAST in terms of professional accreditations. The fact that they have the largest salesforce and such a "large" amount of insurance sales is misleading. The numbers are very different if you consider insurance lapse rates and the transient nature of a large part of their workforce.

12) Stop calling it an opportunity for everyone. So is the lottery. Everyone has the potential to win, but no one in their right mind would consider it an opportunity.

If you want to work for Primerica, fine. But enough of the "Us vs. Them" mentality. You guys are the only ones who subscribe to it. Enough with the talk of crusades and educating people and helping families. If debt is such a concern for you and your clients, sell them a less expensive product, give them a lower interest rate. Stop believing everything you are told by your RVP. By the way, every Primerica rep seems to be from the top producing office in their area. Dishonesty is always a problem at other offices, never theirs.

To the dummy who said Primerica was the only company to pay out the death claims after Sept. 11, without waffling etc... what a load of crap. All the insurers paid out all legitimate claims. The issue regarding acts of war was a media issue, not a life insurance issue. It created a problem on the p&c side, not life insurance. And Primerica did NOT pay out 4 times what any other company did. They were NOT the top paying life insurer in the disaster. Again, stop believing everything your RVP tells you.

I've said enough for now.
#50
Consumer Comment
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POSTED: Friday, March 28, 2003
Here's the scoop about Primerica's status as a pyramid scheme. Primerica is a pyramid scheme, and I'm pretty sure the FTC would classify it as such if it had any interest to.

Primerica is not an illegal pyraimd scheme, what they are doing is perfectly legitimate.

Illegal pyramid shemes are characterized by a system wherein people in higher levels make their money from the purchases made by people beneath them in the structure.

Primerica avoids this situation because the end consumer is the only purchaser of their products.

Basically, in a company like Amway, the majority of the profits derived come from people within the organization, and most of the products never make it past people who are a part of the company.

Thus, people in higher levels make money because the product has already been sold as far as they're concerned, while people in lower levels lose money because they can't move the loads of product they purchased with the intent to sell.

Primerica doesn't require an investment in its product by the new recruits, and thus avoids liability as a pyramid scheme. (Any questions?)

But, sadly, legality does not always equal morality. Countless studies have shown that the average new Primerica rep earns less than a minimum wage income in their first year, which most of them never make it through. The products marketed by Primerica are generally not endorsed by people who know about such things, which Primerica reps don't.

Primerica claims to be in the noble business of "helping the people who need it most" when, in fact, you need to make a rather substantial income (relatively) to even be considered as a client. The list goes on, and I would urge future Primerica supporters not to focus on your company's strong ethics, because you're not fooling anyone (well, unfortunately, you are fooling some people).

To finish off, a little advice for thos who recieve a call for a great career opportunity (I'd say these tenets hold true about 90% of the time):

1) A company that does not pay you for your training period will not be a good company to work for.

2) Products that are marketed through MLMs are, generally, either overpriced or worthless. If they were quality, well valued products they wouldn't need any more than five levels of distribution to market them.
#51
Consumer Comment
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POSTED: Wednesday, April 09, 2003
I wish to start this report by saying that I am not involved with Primerica Financial Services (I am currently involved in real estate), however, my cousin is a Regional Leader with the company who is about to become a Regional Vice President and is planning to expand other offices. I have been down to the "business briefing" at the local office with my cousin and have had the chance to experience being recruited. I was very impressed with what the company had to offer, and I was already aware of the Rule of 72. I felt that the company had a common sense approach to finances which had a lot to offer to people who would not be able to obtain financial assistance elsewhere.

After stumbling upon this site I was very concerned for my cousin and directed her attention to the site. We both reviewed the majority of the comments together. I then asked my cousin to give me a break down of how the company truly worked.

It seems that Primerica is a multi-level marketing system, which is okay for their are some companies that rely only on this type of distribution. In looking at the system, it seems that it is almost simular to how real estate works, with a couple of better perks in my opinion. In response to the gentleman that stated that a company that does not offer paid training in general is not a good company, that is not necessary true. In real estate, there is no paid training. If one wants to become a realtor, one must pay for your classes, then pay for your license (test and pass), and then find a brokerage that is willing to take you on as an agent/associate. Then you are only paid on commission, which can make real estate a tough profession. The only person who makes "good" money would be the broker, because he or she gets an override off of their agent's production. The "quality" of your training is going to depend soley on your broker. I can also see the point of having a person "pay" into their license, the person has a stake in the matter, making them more committed. As for all the cold calling and contacts, my cousin informed me that reps are not allowed to do that anymore and if you are cold called and reported it is instant termination.

In seeing there is a lot of negative comments to this company, my cousin explained that most major insurance companies do not like Primerica due to the fact that the company only markets term insurance and that the polices are replaced. In most cases, term insurance is the best type of insurance due to the fact that a client can afford more protection for the dollar. And not to sound like a supporter of the company, but one can read many publications that support this such as Money magazine (which denounces any type of cash value insurance). Or you can read "Financial Peace", which focuses on term insurance or "What's Wrong With Your Life Insurance" by Norman Dacey, who goes in depth in explaining insurance (ironically, A.L. Williams is mentioned in this book). I bring up these book titles because I wanted to do outside research on term insurance. In especially reading Mr. Dacey's book, I really wonder about the "loyalty" of some of these name brand insurance companies. Other books I would point you to are the "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" line of books which speaks about how an "employee" is typically in a trap financially due to the fact that you are underpaid and are stuck in the "rat race" believing that extra schooling will get them what they want, when in actuallity it is the desire.

In checking with the prices, Primerica insurance is not the cheepest, and this issue was raised to my cousin. There are a lot of guarantees in a Primerica policy that may or may not be included in a competitor's policy. Also, by nature term insurance, it is a cheep product which does not pay a big commission. My cousin picks up a lot of policies from clients and saved some of the examples. Some of these policies would scare you. After explaining how the policy worked to me, I wouldn't buy the darn thing. In working with my cousin, it seems to me that maybe understanding your finances may not be a thing you need a degree in if someone is willing to take the time and sit down with you. And for all those people who do hold degrees and licenses, they had to be trained too, didn't they? They were not financial experts as soon as they graduated, someone had to take them out and train them, and they had to make mistakes and receive on hands training before they became an expert. If you think about it, would you trust an airplane pilot who had a pilot's degree but had never flown or someone who had flown 100s of hours? Experience has more weight than a degree.

As the recruitment is concerned, all companies recruit. I believe the call it the marketing or human resources department. Although some of the representatives are a little on the aggressive side it seems at Primerica, all companies search out good talent. This is especially so with sales companies because sales is a burn out profession. I have heard simular complaints from people working with Edward Jones and that there is a push on their employees to recruit associates onto the sales force. As for the comment that Primerica picks on people that are poor and minorities knowing that they would not pass the exam, is that implying that the poor and minorities are ignorant and wouldn't be able to succeed? That may not be what the person means by that statement, but that could raise the hair on someone's neck. My cousin is a minority and that would offend her because she does a lot of training! As for targeting these populations, ironically, it is these same populations that are often neglected financially.

As for attending the meetings, I think the person who labeled them as church meetings/pep rallies was right. I see a lot of simularity between churches, sororities and fraternities and Primerica. Why? Because everyone in these organizations are there as volunteers. And as a volunteer, because someone is not forcing you to be there, organized struture to remind people of why they are there is needed. There used to be a time that the church was considered a cult (and for some people it still is) but now it is a stable part of our society. There are a lot of people who place a monetary contribution into the church and never receive anything out of it due to the fact they are not receptive to the information that is being given. Everyone knows the central theme of a church is redemption of souls, however, every week the message is a little different, and it gives the faithful members encouragement to continue on with the journey. Why should any voluteer organization be any different?

Like real estate, Primerica is not easy. For some people, this is a total change to what they have being doing prior. A lot of people do not like change and do not realize in order to get to the high positions of the company, you must become a great leader, which acquires skill in personal growth...which also means some pain my be experienced. When I was at the business briefing I was told that this was not a get rich quick business and that if I was told that, I was being lied to. Also, I was told that it is going to depend on your desire, effort and abilities. My cousin has had many struggles on the way to her current position with the company which really tested her character. I am proud of my cousin, she did not have a degree in finance, but was willing to learn. She has a degree in Criminal Justice and Psychology, so she is not a "dummy" and she worked for the Toledo Police Department in a high ranking position. However, she was very open minded to a change and expanded her beliefs that she could be a Regional Vice President. I believe that anyone could probably be successful with Primerica, if they are willing to pay that price. For some people, that price is too high and for those people they will not make it.

As far as negative articles about the company, there are many positive ones as well. In fact, in an article in Money magazine, their fall 2002 issue, an RVP from Kansas is featured, making a 120,000 year income. Pretty impressive. After going into various magizine sites such as Network Marketing Lifestyles, House of Business, and looking at "Wave 4, Network Marketing in the 21st Century." or checking out mlmreview.com, their are pretty good reviews of the company. I hope that everyone realizes that these are opinions on this site and that best way to find out is to use your own judgement and at least investigate the company before making a solid opinion. Most times the person who you are dealing with is the problem, not the company. This review can be picked apart, and probably some people will do such a thing long after I have finished typing this and gone on. However, I encourge the ones who may be looking into Primerica to have an open mind and follow your heart. If it is not for you, then it is not for you. It wasn't a choice for me, but it may be for you.
#52
Ex-Employee
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POSTED: Saturday, April 19, 2003
I was already a part of Primerica for a few months. I was already a bit skeptical of the whole process. I then had this site confirm what I was thinking. Here's a part of the story.

I got "recruited" into Primerica back in Chicago. I had no experience in dealing with people's money. I went to a Corporate Overview. It's a two-part meeting of what it is and what the opportunities are. They then sign you up if you are interested. It's the slick shmooze job that brings many people on board.

LIE #1 is it’s easy to make money and be “financially independent.” Just to note I spent about nine months with Primerica before relocating out of state and telling them I was not interested in continuing in Vegas. I was told when I was brought on that there was "no cold calling." This is an outright lie. I was told this before filling out the IBA and forking over $199.00. Yes, I am paying to join. It was $200 and I was interested enough to risk it. It’s my fault for doing that. However, I wouldn't have seen the process first hand had I not. Naturally it was told that I needed to "build my team to be on the road to RVP." So phone calls were necessary. Cold calls were in fact "encouraged" and "required" to build your team. Please note that you don't make much money unless you build your team.

LIE #2 is that it is easy to be "RVP ASAP." My uplink (in my opinion) is a good guy who slowly is coming around to the fact that it's not happening there for him. He's been with Primerica for two + years. He's been forced to get a second full time job to survive. So not only has he given up forty-fifty hours a week for Primerica. He's working a second job. He had to drive sometimes fifty mile round trip for appointments. He was obviously "sacrificing" to be that RVP that was made to sound easier than buying toilet paper at the store. While I was there for nine months. He had to "rebuild" his team three times. He would get his team up to seven...lose them down to me. He'd rebuild up to eight...lose five more. When I left he was back down to two people. "RVP ASAP" was the chant used every five minutes at the Grand Rapids convention last September at the Van Arden arena for "Team Unstoppable."

LIE #3 is the fact that we are financial experts. The training was informative. It was for what they wanted to tell you. The training was “Dealing With People's Money 101.” An overwhelming majority of people had no experience with finances outside of paying their own bills. We were taught the basics. Believe it or not we weren’t taught much about “overcoming objections.” It was said that the product would sell itself. If we got any “difficult” questions we couldn’t answer. We were to call our uplink while stalling. Now we are experts after a few weekly meetings? I don't think so. It’s scary that this “blue print” is going to make many sales and “save people from the evils of debt.” Three other financial service companies also interviewed me after passing my Life Only license for Illinois. They did their best in the interview to not bash Primerica by saying “Our process is much different.” It’s widely known that Primerica is not respected in the financial industry. Those companies say it’s the rep that Primerica is giving the industry. Primerica says it’s because they are the best and they all are jealous. You draw your own conclusion. At the point of those interviews. I wanted nothing to do with the financial services industry.

LIE #4 is the hurdles that you cross. Once you’ve gotten your Mortgage license (watching one 10 minute video) and your Life license and you start to prepare for District Manager (sounds great in title) and getting your Securities license. You start to get thrown a few more hurdles. The want you to sign up for Call Atlanta (which is their service that calculates all the insurance information for you so you don’t have to be a genius.) This was almost $30 per month. The cost of Call Atlanta got higher the higher in rank you got. If you became RVP it was then $80 per month. They also wanted you to sign up for your personal voicemail and pay $20 per month. I guess my cell phone wasn’t acceptable in their eyes. By then you’ve already gone over your list (gameplan) of people who are friends and family to bring to the corporate overview. Suck your friends and family in on the guise of trusting a friend/family member…brilliant move in their eyes!

LIE #5 recruitment. I had been working a near full time job and working Primerica at the same time. I had my resume out on the online job boards including Monster. Primerica was part of my resume. Believe it or not other Primerica offices contacted me to jump ship and leave my uplinks team and to join theirs. Where’s the company unity and ethics in this? Primerica will also recruit anyone and try to make that recruit feel special. I had reposted my resume with a state run service. The first response I got was from…Primerica. Primerica was now off my resume at this point. So the recruiter had no knowledge of me ever being a part of it.

LIE #6 “It’s not a pyramid.” Do you have to pay to join Primerica? Yes you do. Do you have to build a team to become successful? Yes you do. You can’t make too much money unless you do. Does your uplink make 11% of each sale you make? Yes they do. Sounds like a pyramid no matter how they try to word it and avoid liability of being one. Call a spade a spade. Little cutesy wordings don’t mask what it is.

LIE #7 “We do good things for people.” This one is relayed more than anything else. It’s beaten into your brain along with the self-help books and cassettes the office wants you to rent. Our “five-star” (ideal) appointment is someone who is in their mid-twenties, newly married, looking for a home, middle class income, and in college debt. In other words our target is a demographic that most other financial companies won’t even sniff at. It’s also the easiest demographic to deal with because they are
1 – desperate for help
2 – probably not too informed on money matters
3 – a demographic unable to fight back if they are locked into a bad deal

It’s already been documented that Primerica only does term life. Of course the term life in the book shows our rates lower than those on Whole Life Plan A. Who wouldn’t show that? When we are “busted” on our term only rates being higher than other term only rates. We are then supposed to say that “Primerica is the best and you pay a few more bucks for the best.” The sad thing is that both employee and client aren’t 100% informed on all the products and competitors out there.

The convention in Grand Rapids last early September was the clincher. I had already paid for my ticket there so I felt compelled to go to it. The drive luckily was only 190 miles. The convention was supposed to reaffirm that you are doing good things for uninformed people. What I saw in my opinion was 4,000 mind-numbed robots looking like this was a college football rally. The 4,000 number was the amount of tickets sold. The Van Arden arena held 10,000 and was about 1/3rd full. It was a day of education and award ceremonies.

The second day was the most laughable. We kept getting asked how do we feel. We we’re supposed to answer “Unstoppable.” In the evening we were supposed to dress our best for the Primerica awards ceremony. These ninety minutes of people getting hundreds of awards. We were supposed to stand with our thunder sticks and or clap for all ninety minutes while 3/4ths of the same people went up and got award after award. We were told, “See how easy it is to get these?” LIES. They did do a good job of making everyone feel good about themselves.

Three weeks before this convention I came across the Rip-off report along with some other websites with the Primerica topic. I wanted to finally see what others thought. Obviously a lot of negative press isn’t good. Usually where there’s smoke there’s fire. I think in my opinion this is the case. After putting it all together and barely recovering my money of the IBA and the Life license. I told my uplink that I could not stay for the third day of the convention. The speaker of honor spoke for 45 minutes about the goodness of Primerica. This is a man who made $2 million last year on the work of all others under the pyramid. I left and never was a part of Primerica again.

Sorry about the two pages plus of my story and opinions. I think that my experience here should be considered before you do business as an employee or as a person who does business with them looking for financial independence.

Thanks for reading
#53
Consumer Comment
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POSTED: Sunday, April 20, 2003
Several years ago, I owned a computer repair business and I maintained the PCs and network at one of the Primerica offices in Albuqueruqe, NM. I had come to learn a lot about the company and how it operates and I have met many people who ran their operations out of that office. As hard as they tried, I would not join and become one of their "reps" or whatever they are called (PFAs?). Basically, a post above referring to these folks as mind-numbed robots is a perfect description as to how these guys operate and behave. They are programmed and totally brain washed that someday they will be making the 120K per year and won't have to worry about having a real full-time job again. Well, the truth of the matter is that you basically would have to turn into a major harasser to your family and friends in order to recruit enough people for you even to make any type of money. Most people are repelled by the idea of having to turn around and find more people etc. IF you think this is for you, expect to be avoided (if not hated) by most of your close friends and relatives as most of them will not want to get involved. High-pressure tactics is a must if you want to work for that company. If you think you can convince many people to be recruited by you to sell life insurance and their other financial services, then go for it. I recall one time I was at their office and three different recruiters were trying to get me to join under them. Finally once managed to convince me to attend one of their seminars and of course, realizing this is not my style of work, I quickly just wanted to bail out. However, I Was intercepted and I don't remember the details leading to it, but one of them actually inserted a cotton swab into my mouth and took a saliva sample!! Would someone involved with Primerica please explain why that was necessary. Anyway, I have been approached many times since then by other reps and they sure do use high pressure tactics. You can't really blame them as these guys have to do this to make money. But their persistence often lead to me avoiding them for life. I have since moved to Arizona and check this out... I had placed my resume on monster and was seeking a computer engineering position. I got a call the next day from what seemed to be someone looking for a management position which was being held in Tucson, about a 2 hour drive away. He said they were having interviews about 4pm and that there would be other people there as well and for me to bring at least 6 references. Something in the back of my mind said "hey, ask him if its Primerica". SO I did, and sure enough it was!! I decided not to go. A week later, I received a call from a respectable company and now work as a computer engineer. So if you are the type that has good salesman skills, are perisistent, willing to shell out $200 to get started and are willing to take a chance of all our references getting harassed and possibly not wanting anything to do with you afterwards, give it a shot! As for me, naaah, it's not my cup of tea.
#54
Consumer Comment
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POSTED: Tuesday, May 13, 2003
I was recently approached by a friend’s brother to come to one of Primerica’s Opportunity meetings. He started by telling me that he had this great opportunity for me and told me about how much money he had made in his first investment deal ($500 Can). During the conversation, he also mentioned that Primerica was a large up-and-coming company, owned by Citigroup who had trillion dollars in assets, etc.

Of course I was familiar with the company because I had gotten credit card apps from Citibank and remembered reading an article about its founder, Sandy Weill. I was curious and it sounded legit, so I went to the meeting. It was one of those “feel-good” meetings where they talk about all the money you can make and how I should invite all my friends because this was such a great opportunity (I didn’t count the number of times I heard that phrase…but it was a lot). Anyway, The majority of the meeting was talking about how you could make $100K per year helping families that all the other companies out there want to screw. Well, I am no dummy (I have a BSc and BEd), but I felt myself sort of buying into what they were saying. I think this is partly because I agreed with them that some people get the wrong insurance, that the banks pay you next to nothing for using your money, and that many people retire broke. Their methods supposedly fix all of these problems by helping get people into the “right” insurance, move their money into better paying investments, and help people get out of debt so they can start saving for later in life.

I also thought that it was a good deal to pay $200 for courses through Primerica that cost over $1000 from other colleges in town. They even tell you that with their scholarship program, you can get that $200 back so there really is no investment. I thought, if anything, I could get some financial education to help myself for cheap, or free. Well, I decided to fill out the IBA and payed my $200 to get the ball rolling. The up-line got my info for the FNA and said he would have it done in a few days. So he suggests that I go watch some taped broadcast in the office the following day. After watching this, the red flags were started to wave to me, telling me to wake up and smell what was being shoveled. My father was involved in a cult-like religious group when I was a preteen so I am familiar with certain tactics that are used by cult-like groups. Anyway, the up-line sits me down after the video and gives me the Fast Start Planner. He goes through it and we start talking about what designation I was planning on starting out as. In his opinion, even though he really knows nothing about me, he decided that I would probably be best going for the Division Leader designation which incidentally paid the highest percentage. Then he goes on to say that before I do the courses, I have to do the field training which consisted of 8-10 kitchen table appointments. He goes on to say that all of these appointments need to come from my warm-market (my family and friends). Now this is where I was raising my eyebrows and thinking WTF? to myself. I am familiar with lots of work & learn programs, but I have never heard of one where they give you absolutely no classroom training before going into the field. I am expected to bring a Primerica field trainer into the homes of my family and closest friends, and have him “help” them by selling them products that I have no clue about. Talk about a Trojan horse. It makes far more sense to obtain education about Life Insurance, Mutual Funds and Mortgages and then go do field training. This way, you can better understand the decisions that the Field trainer is making about what is right for any given family. And why should I use my warm market to field train? The up-line should just as easily invite me to sit in on a meeting with his own clients. And to top it off, they only want to do these meetings with 4-5 pointers (These are people that fit into at least 4 of the following: Age 25-55, Married, have Children, is a Home owner, or is Employed full-time).Then it dawns on me. I recall that in the meeting that they say for every 10 FNA’s they do, they get to help out approximately 8 families. Out of these 8 families, 1-2 will qualify for refinancing of their mortgage. When you look at the pay structure and do the math, the Field trainer is looking at making between $2000 - $4000 off of my friends and family, of which I make nothing.
In the Planner, it states: “As you’re not yet licensed when you start, your trainer will go with you to interview your warm market. Since we’re licensed to help them, we’ll help them now, and you’ll benefit from the training.”
I may not be the swiftest at times but I’m pretty sure that there is only one person that is going to benefit here and it is not going to be me.

So much for their heavily subsidized courses. I save maybe $1000 - $2000 on the courses so someone else can pick my only available market clean and make a tidy sum. What is even more amusing is that they want me to give them a list of all of the people that I know, even if they aren’t 4-5 pointers because even they need to know about the Primerica Opportunity! They are even kind enough to include a blank contact list in the Planner so that I can write down the name, address, phone number and demographics of at least 26 people that I know (yes, I said 26). Once I hand that in, even if I decide to quit, they now have info that will allow them to call my friends and family under the guise that I referred Primerica to them.

By this point, I am seeing the word sucker printed on my forehead. I went home and started doing some serious research on Primerica and Citigroup. You know, for a company that spent some time bashing the other insurance companies for wrong doings, they just happened to forget to mention anything about Citigroups involvement in the Enron and WorldCom frauds, and their predatory lending practices, especially targeting the poor with higher interest rate loans, and the countless complaints about Primerica for its deceptive sales tactics in selling term insurance (I believe it is called “twisting” and it appears to be illegal), the scam that they are pulling with the mortgage refinancing (see http://www.stretcher.com/stories/00/000925c.cfm) and the list goes on and on and on. I decided to wipe the word sucker off of my forehead before it became permanently etched there. I called my new up-line and told him that I wanted to cancel my IBA and was no longer interested in the Primerica “Opportunity”.

If people tell you many people benefit from Primerica’s reps because they couldn’t afford to get debt help or info elsewhere, they are full of crap. The FNA is a joke and the kind of get out of debt info is something they can read in Finances for Dummies. There are countless non-profit organizations that can help people deal with their debt problems by helping educate them and help give them a game plan. These places have people that are undoubtedly better qualified to help people with credit counseling and financial planning than a Primerica agent that has a few weekends of schooling on issues that don’t even deal with debt elimination.

I recommend to anyone else that if Primerica, or any other company appears to be a great idea for them, objectively research the company that is making the offer before you commit to it. It is quite common that they will attempt to awe you with promises of getting rich in only a few years and making it sound like the business is the most noble in the world. Well I can tell you that Primerica may talk about their noble cause, but I think that they are sending people that are highly UNDER-qualified into the field to play with peoples’ money.

As an aside, I am rather amused that two people that wrote quite a bit in support of Primerica (Brian - Wayne, Pennsylvania and Moraine - Toledo, Ohio) also quoted from "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" by Robert Kiyosaki. Before quoting anything from this self-proclaimed real-estate “guru”, save your credibility some face and do some research on him rather than taking his word for who he is. To start you off, check out: http://www.johntreed.com/Kiyosaki.html
It is more likely that this guy made money from selling books that provide no real info, just motivational talking, than he ever did selling real estate.

Oh, and please excuse any misspelled words, dangling modifiers and the such...it is late and as you can tell I have been typing for a while :)
#55
Consumer Suggestion
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Primerica is a joke

Kim - Gilbert (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Wednesday, May 14, 2003
Any company that constantly searches job sites non stop, day in day out, calling everybody and their mother, advertising for help, on a continuous basis, should send up a red flag. Funny how just about every person I know has been contacted by these morons. If it was such a great company to work for why is there a 95% turn over rate. This is just a pyramid scheme and will eventually crash and burn. Sure you might be one of the very few lucky ones that actually makes any $$$ but I doubt it. So glad I didn't fall for this crap. I see these losers have an office in Mesa, AZ I saw the other day. I felt sorry for the people all dressed nice, resume in hand going to an interview. NOBODY is pathetic enough to work for these guys.

Yes I work for Corporate America but I have a legitimate job where I can a paycheck and bonus check and commission check and a ton of other nice perks.

You cannot honestly say that all the nasty internet message about these guys don't mean anything.
#56
Consumer Comment
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References list?

Steven - Atlanta (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Wednesday, June 04, 2003
I also went to two interviews with this company, the first was to tell me about the company and get my basic information (pretty normal). It was during the second interview when they asked for a list of my family and friends who might be interested in their services that I started to wonder. They told me that I would visit these family and friends with a current employee to "train" and be shown how to sell their services. After that I was told that I had to give them a check for $200 for "certification." What type of certification do you get without training? The whole scenario sounded too fraudulant for me, not only do I have to pay them, but I also have to give them a client list. No thanks.
#57
Consumer Comment
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POSTED: Sunday, June 08, 2003
I, as many others, have been contacted by a recruiter for PFS. They took my resume off of a national job/resume site and called asking for an interview. I asked about the position and was given the same manager type answer.

Now, when a financial type institution calls you out of the blue, in a very tight job market, offering some sort of management job in a career field 180 degrees apart from yours, how can you even consider it a legitimate opportunity? I do not have a degree, but it seems that anyone with any amount of common sense would dismiss any offers that came unsolicited and basically, out of no where.

There are cons and pyramid type schemes everywhere, and thankfully web sites such as this to help those with questions or comments. However you would think that if people listened to their common sense from the start, that many of these negative experiences would have never taken place.

It should basic common sense that in a tight job market the phone isn't going to start ringing with job offers you've never even heard about. As for those online websites where my resume was posted, it has since been removed. It seems the only people who take the time to view those sites are looking for something different from what I consider a legitimate job offer.
#58
Ex-Employee
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POSTED: Sunday, June 15, 2003
I was involved with Primerica, part-time and then full-time, for almost 2 years. I was a recent college graduate, and got caught up in everything discussed in this thread of postings. Here is some additional info.

-Primerica started out as "A.L. Williams"

-Primerica is MLM, but not exactly a pyramid.

-When Primerica reps pull resumes off Monster, etc, they do not even look at them. They pull as many as they can from specific search radius, and then contact them all by phone or email. We were always told, "It's a numbers game."

-Primerica will hire anyone who passes a background check. Reps get recognition from recruiting numbers, and many bonuses and promotion requirements are tied to recruiting. They will hire anyone they can to get their recruiting numbers up.

-DO NOT write down references on your interview sheet, because they will just be added to the list of people to call to recruit.

-There are more Primerica agents without a security's license than there are with one.

-Many Citigroup employees are ashamed that Primerica is part of their organization.

EVEN WITH all these negatives, I still believe that the company itself does give it's reps an opportunity to make a lot of money, and do it in an honest way. Fact is that most of the "owners" are focused on "recruit, recruit, recruit", and that's why Primerica will never be looked at in a positive light.

My RVP (Regional Vice President) always said "sell the dream", and unfortunetly, that dream never becomes a reality for most reps.
#59
Consumer Comment
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Pumping America

Robert - Crestline (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Tuesday, June 17, 2003
It's all in a dishonest days work. I hate to say it, but I allowed myself to fall prey to these guys. I thought it sounded like A.L. Williams stuff. The check was cashed for what I thought was life Insurance. The back of the check revealed a deposit made to Wachovia Bank NA SVC in Orlando Florida. Orlando Florida, why does that City ring a bell. It can't be.........no.Ocwen Bank. Any ideas
#60
Consumer Comment
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Bunch of ripoff artists!!

Donnie - Las Vegas (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Tuesday, June 24, 2003
This Primerica is nothing more than a stupid pyramid scheme, their main purpose is not selling securities, it's SIGNING PEOPLE UP!!! They pestered the hell out of me trying to sign me up in Nashville, and then I got a call from the Vegas office when I moved out here! Saying that they could "really use someone like me" and all that crap translates into "Give us money you stupid moron so we can move ourselves up the chain by signing up more and more dummies like you", it's coming, a huge investigation on TV and all, you jerks at the top of your pyramid beware, it's nothing more than AMWAY and NSA and all these ridiculous companies revisited, they can all kiss my homemade a-ss!!!!!
#61
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Thanks for the reports!!

June - Lakewood (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Wednesday, June 25, 2003
First off, it is wonderful to be able to research a company on the web before making a commitment to anything.

A representative contacted me today and told me that I would be great for a job opportunity. Well I have a full time job and wasn't interested in full time but maybe part time. I really thought this was a JOB that I could earn some extra money.

So to get some information about Primeamerica, I got on the web and spent some time looking at the responses. Any company with that much negative response, could not be a worthwhile investment and the representative did not state it was sales, that there was a fee or any information that would be required of an employer.

I did make an appointment for an "interview" for tomorrow but from the information I have found, I will not be going.

Thanks to all of you for putting your experience on the web and saving my time and energy!

Another item that really concerned me was the responses from the "owners/supporters" is the unprofessionalism. I am a business manager and supervisor and I would never respond to anyone in that manner. That shows me that this company is not professional or a place for anyone to be.

My suggestion to all: Always do your research before making any decisions; it has always paid off for me
#62
Employee
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LIVE AND LEARN

DAVID - ORTONVILLE (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Thursday, June 26, 2003
I had always thought of myself as a very skeptical person, one who would research, before jumping into anything. Im still shaking my head, how I was enticed into becoming a pfs rep, and how I involved many of my friends. I felt as if someone was dangeling a carrot in front of me, and feeding me a little at a time. I was even told when your recruiting not to give out all the information at once, it a constant dodge game, and i wasnt comfortable with it at all. I didnt relize this until I had recruited 5 friends and family, who basically got involved because they respected me and it didnt matter what the company was about, if I was involved it had to be ok.

Well after several apologies and some of my credibility gone, i decided to give it up.
I was very honest with my rvp, I said I didnt agree with the approach used to recruit, it seemed very misleading to me. There are always too many unanswered questions.
#63
Ex-Employee
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primerica is a rip off..

Dore - San Jose (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Friday, June 27, 2003
danielle is telling the truth, the rest of you who responded are either employee's of primerica or have family with them because complete strangers would at least consider her side of the story. I was with primerica for a couple months and it is infact a scam.

When you people say "oh it gives young kids with no educations the chance to make more then college grads yatta yatta" thats bullshit because for one , even if you sell their insurance you dont even get an 8th of what your trainer gets and when you sign up with the company they say they will pay you up to 1,000 dollars depending on which package you sell the family/customer but thats also bullsh*t because the most you will ever see out of a full package is like 200 dollars and to make a sale takes a couple months , ESPECIALLY if your a young kid , who the hell in their right mind is going to put their life insurance in the hands of an 18 year old? Anyway they also get you to try and fuck over your family , start with people you know so that they trust you and so on, they pretty much make things sound so simple but its a very sly scam that they are running and I can see why people get lured into them because I myself did, I learned quickly and got my 159 back out of the 199 I payed, although I didnt get back the time I spent with the company which was a total waste of time.
#64
Consumer Comment
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POSTED: Monday, July 14, 2003
I have never been involved with Primerica, but for about four years was involved with another multilevel marketing company and after reading most of the comments on the Primerica subject, wanted to put in my two cents.

Most MLMs have some set or rules, or code of ethics that the business owner is supposed to abide by. However, when the business gets really large and people think they can do it an easier way, some of these deceptive practices become the norm. For instance, the rules of my MLM did not allow us to do any mass mailing or internet recruiting, it had to be all one on one, either people you already knew or you had to meet new people. Not all lines of sponsorship followed these rules. If they were caught violating the rules, they ran the risk of losing their entire business. At least one previous comment indicated that Primerica has similar prohibitions.

An MLM is not a pyramid scheme. Amway Corporation fought this battle in federal court some time ago and won. Pyramid schemes are illegal. MLMs are just another way of doing business, but definitely not the traditional way. Owning a business is not for everybody. I worked hard and had some success. However it would have cost me thousands to start a traditional business and it only cost me a couple hundred to start an MLM business. It was not difficult to make the money needed every month for training tapes, etc. Yes, I wish I could have been one of those who made millions of dollars the first year but I also knew from the materials provided to me that most people that sign up in this type of business never make ANY money. In four years I made some friends, some extra cash, learned a few things about business first hand, and a whole lot about how to better handle my money. It sounds like Primerica, for whatever the faults are, gives people a chance to look at things differently, like how to pay a off a mortgage early. This is something I never conceieved of until well into my 30s and it would have benefitted me more had I understood it a few years earlier.

Most of us will not win the lottery or make "easy money." Some will go to school and get advanced degrees, and some will work extra jobs or overtime, and others will be entrepeneurs. Most of us would like more money or a different lifestyle and MLMs provide that opportunity no matter what your background.

Obviously if there are corrupt business practices they should be reported to the parent company or to the Federal Trade Commission or Direct Marketing Association (there is probably some federal agency that covers the lending and insurance industry as well). However, there is no need to be bitter, write it off as a scam and put other people down just because it wasn't for you.
#65
Consumer Suggestion
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Scams Here, Scams There

Joe - Toronto (Canada)

POSTED: Tuesday, July 15, 2003
I was interested to find out what business scam that Primerica has done to the public. After all I did not find one but allegations and complaints about their recruiting processes. Well, if you cannot make & do it, why not just quit rather than being cry-baby & blaming others because you fail.

Come on, guys! If you have any complaints against this giant companies like Primerica or its Parent company Citigroup, then this is not the proper venue. Go to court for fair trial & let the proper authorities decide it. This rather makes your case look credible & real.

Thus this website is the real rip-off business as the editor's comment is always one-sided & just wants to sensationalized the unfounded issues & complaints to make people pay its $19.95 for a rip-off reports at the expense of the legitimate companies.
#66
Consumer Suggestion
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To All Cry Babies

David - Toronto (Canada)

POSTED: Thursday, July 17, 2003
I challenge you to file a lawsuit of all your complaints against Primerica Financial Services.
If you win, count me as one with you, OKAY???

But if you don't, it's obvious that you are just doing these destructive things against a legitimate business most probably because -

1. You are the disgruntled insurance agent competitors who were pissed-off due to switching from your policies;

2. You are who tried to do the Primerica business but failed thus you got upset;

3. You are just disappointed upon knowing in an interview that the job or business being offered is not what you expect in;

Pls stop being cry babies!
#67
Consumer Suggestion
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POSTED: Friday, July 18, 2003
I've known about Primerica and its predecessor,
A.L. Williams, for years. The basis of this
business is multi-level marketing.

What this means is when you're on the first rung
of the ladder, the best you can hope for is to
make a meager living from selling its products
and services. The real money comes in from
recruitment.

If this all there were to it, then it would be
barely passable, but you're dealing with a
company that's very deceptive or outright lying.
In my case promises were made to pay for my
license, the test I took and the traing class,
none of which the company has ever done.

They want you to submit a bunch of names from
your acquaintances because it's a referral type
of business upon which the primary aim is to get
more people to join up with Primerica. This is
the type of company that will tell you just about
anything to get you to join up (while not true of
all, the financial services industry commonly
uses these types of tactics when it comes to
multi-level marketing).

Here are tipoff signs:

(1) The company says it has "several career

opportunities." (very vague and used to

cover why they're calling you even if it's

not the position you're looking for, also

the word "opportunity" is typical of those

that don't offer a salary or looking for

entrepreneurs).

(2) Refusal to back up the statement in writing.

(3) Trying to get you to submit referral lists

of your friends and relatives so that

someone else can actually get the commission

and bonus off of you (the scam here is that

when you make an appointment with a referral,

it's allegedly supposed to teach you about

selling the product or service when it's

real purpose is to get the referral to join

Primerica).

(4) Get you to get others to come to the group

meetings (you won't get a referral bonus

if you bring someone down to the meeting

and they decide to join up with Primerica).

A regular insurance or financial services
company can start you off with orphaned accounts
so that you can have a base to start off with.
Primerica doesn't even offer that.

So the bottom-line is that Primerica is really
looking for entrepreneurial recruiters and the
products and services that it offers are
overpriced designed to reward those further up
the rung (i.e. branch managers and above).
#68
Employee
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Primerica Rips Consumers and Reps

Samuel - Billings (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Monday, July 21, 2003
Having been in PFS for about 6 months now I can safely say what the detractors say is almost 100% true. Here's the lowdown.

PFS Sells overpriced, under performing products through guilt and intimidation of people. The premise of "This will help Joe in his training..." or Joe saying "I need your help in building my business...." then proceeding to "BOP" aka Recruit them into the business is decitful at best.

Let's cover the Lies that I was told about doing business with PFS.

#1 You can only Sell insurance in your state if you have an office and only an RVP can have an office. Outright LIE. You don't need an office at all EXCEPT with PFS.

#2 To be certified to do loans all you have to do is watch a tape and sign a form. For $mart loans they give you a pittance and do all of the work and you get a crappy commisison, higher interest rate and double the closing costs of any other lender. To be certified to do loans you have to be certified by a bank. At PFS since they don't really care for the customer they centralize the process and the rep is just the patsy.

#3 $mart loans are better because they reamortize the loan with each payment. PFS is the ONLY company that does this. Outright LIE. I have one acronym answer. "MTA" MTAs do EXACTLY the same thing except the rates are 3-4 % BELOW market and you have multiple payment options. If you are a PFS rep and don't know what an MTA is then you ARE NOT doing the best thing for your Client.

#4 PFS Always does the best thing for the client every time. This is the biggest LIE there is. I've replaced ALL of the policies put out by my so called trainer with other companies and wacked the RVP and Trainer with Chargebacks galore. Too Too funny. In all cases I put them with AA+ or better companies with half the premium for twice the face amount for 3 times the Term. Hmmmmm I think my client is much happier.

#5 You'll never make any money being a sales agent. In PFS that's true. Well in 6 months with PFS I made $0.00. Go out as a free lance agent and get your own contracts. My PFS contracts were 30%. I'm making 85% to 90% of premium being an independent agent. And I can choose whom I deal with rather than one company.

#6 You have to cross the threshold to get the promotions. Another Complete LIE. RVPs and above have the ability to promote people how they see fit at ANY time. They normally put Family members that are licensed in positions such as RL or SRL and they do nothing and get paid while all of the Pawns are getting the crap kicked out of them and are dropping out.

#7 You have to recruit to promote. Same as #6 but if you go out as a free agent you can hire your own agents and do a normal overide position and take 5% override and have the agent keep the rest. In the end the agent is happy and you are happy and you didn't have to recruit them into an MLM.

#8 Other companies don't have the Fabulous trips. Another total lie. You can do as littls as $60k of premium and go to very elaborate trips that are equivalent to the A trips in PFS. In PFS most of those things are going for $250k in premium or more. What a joke. I get 4 trips a year for that much premium.

In the end I do have one thing to thank PFS for. I would have never gotten my license had it not been for them. However the grass is really greener on the other side. Pass PFS, WMA, Capital Choice and other spinoffs. The ride they take you on only leaves ripped off clients and dissolutioned agents behind. Do the Math. Only about 15% of people who put in IBAs ever get their license? When I got a 91 on my exam I was told I studied too hard. That's because I only needed 70 to pass but my trainer gets $50,000 builders premium towards a trip concept and I get squat!

If you are a client call an independent agent for a review of your PFS policy. If you are a rep run as fast as you can for the exit.
#69
Consumer Comment
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POSTED: Sunday, August 03, 2003
Hi,
I am the infamous person that posts against World Perfume and Scentura on this site. If you have ever been invovled with this other MLM company in the past year, you have probably read somthing I wrote. I was going through the fine ripoff report homepage and stumbled on these postings.

I have had horrible luck, after being invovled with World Perfume, I acutually had an interview set up with Primerica. Thanks to being burned so badly by this other MLM scheme, I did some net research BEFORE going to this interview. I found some legitamate news articles on the internet which confirmed that Primerica was another MLM scheme.

I took a few minutes and did a little research on primerica and here are some damning articles that I found which may help all of you:

http://primericabuster.bravepages.com/

Lists of sites against Primerica:

http://directory.google.com/Top/Business/Opportunities/Opposing_Views/Primerica/

LITIGATION AND MEDIA INFORMATION

http://primericabuster.bravepages.com/LITANDMEDIA.htm

It is amazing that all of these pyramid schemes are the same. I hear the same stupid defenses of Primerica as I do about World Perfume and Scentura.

Be wary folks, and trust these people who decide to warn you, they have NOTHING TO GAIN but piece of mind. Why else would they post this information? Are they making any money doing this?

Whereas those pro-primerica people want to use you for their own devious and selfish ends. It is the same sad story as other pyramid schemes.
#70
Consumer Comment
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Your information will be wrong

Jason - Lansing (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Sunday, August 03, 2003
Your advice re: Primerica seems right on, but you mention several sources of information. All of those "primericabuster" sites are operated by Ken Young.

Young was a whole life insurance agent for many decades. That is a fact. He crusaded against A.L. Williams because they were replacing his clients' insurance with term, thoughbeit expensive term. He finally won $75,000 'shut up' money. The publicity it generated helped catapult Primerica to the numbers it soon obtained, however. In fact, at the Atlanta convention, a number of reps had an effigy figure of Ken. It gave the sales force a totally rejuvenated vigor, and launched them to sell more term than ever before. You could say that they finally had a name and face to attach to the sleazy "whole life agent" they had been hearing about. This gave them more resolve in their crusade.

You might say that Ken himself has been responsible for much of the company's growth! Would you like information from that?

Or, how about this. In one of his never-ending torrents of vitriol against Primerica, he said that according to an article he read, the company was fined $20 million by a regulatory agency (NASD). Sounds bad, right? Well, Ken made it up. There is no article, and there was no fine. He has been confronted hundreds of times about it, but refuses to admit that he made it up. In fact, if you ask him about it on "primericabuster", he will ban you. If you would like to verify yourself that there was no fine, you can look it up on NASD's website. They have a searchable database of all actions taken.

As a matter of fact, Ken used to offer to show people the article. Really, you ask? What's the catch? Well, it would cost you twenty-five thousand dollars. That is a fact. You put up $25,000, and Ken puts up $25,000. When you get the article, he takes all.

Some consumer advocate, right?

In another case, Ken gave out some incorrect information about Roth IRAs. No big deal, right?

Well, when a reputable member of a professionals' forum corrected him and referred him to an IRS publication to verify, Ken went ballistic, calling this man a "charlatan", a "fraud", and an "idiot". He never apologised to this person for saying such things!

You can see the thread for yourself at:
http://www.financial-planning.com/wwwboard13/messages/1193.html

In recent months and years, it appears that he has become insane. He constructs these straw men out of pieces of his "advisaries" (his word for adversaries) and then attacks them brutally, even if they don't exist. Recently, he has unleased a flood of messages on various sites praising himself, using different pseudonyms. He used to berate people for using a fake name when posting.

If you do contact him, make SURE to use a fake name and e-mail address. When he learns your name, he will find out all kinds of information about you and post it on the internet. He recently announced that he would open a domain and (quote) "viciously attack" anyone who disagrees with him. He even went so far as to post someone's social security number, phone number, etc.

In one instance, he found one of his detractors' dead brother's memorial websites, and attacked it. He posted pictures of this dead man's brother all over the internet and berated him. He then made bizarre accusations that the living sibling was pretending to be a pastor thousands of miles away from where he really was, simply because they had the same name!

He has threatened to get people fired, break up their engagements, and take them to court so he could clean out their houses. He threatened one man with litigation for years until he finally said it was going to happen. The process server apparently got lost and was never heard from again. He is a bluff waiting to happen.

His behavior has gotten so bizarre over the past couple years that a website was set up to chronicle some of the most insane moments. You can visit:

http://home.satx.rr.com/pfswars/kyindex.html

to read all about him.

Please, whatever you do, get your information. But be EXTREMELY wary with this person. And take what he says with a 5-lb bag of salt.
#71
Ex-Employee
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Primerica is STILL a ripoff 15 years later!

Catherine - Eastpointe (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Wednesday, August 13, 2003
There are a lot of people out there who have been misled and brainwashed by Primerica and its idiot representatives. Many of the rebuttals attacked the person who talked about their college degree and not wanting additional training, accusing her of thingking that she is betther than they are. It is apparent that she is a little stronger or more observant than Primerica's defenders and representatives because whe was not taken in by them and didn't naively believe all the crap they tried to shove down her throat.

Primerica's defenders/representatives are a little sensitive because it is widely known that the company is not completely reputable; that is one of the reasons they must operate almost underground (not because they are avoiding advertising costs, as they claim). Why not attack the company for what it is? It is a scam. They are purposely vague, and purposely misleading so they can mold the weak-minded, gullible people they snare. They don't want intelligent people who will ask questions and react to all the red flags. They want clones who will blindly and resolutely do as Primerica tells them. The bottom line is you have to sell, but they will not come out and say that because most people cannot sell. They are an insurance rep now underwritten by Travelers, apparently. Travelers is at least the 4th or 5th company to underwrite Primerica's policies. That in itself is a red flag. Sure, they may offer other 'financial products', but their main product is insurance. Not that insurance is a bad product, but many people don't know much about insurance, and there is a stigma attached to insurance and insurance salespeople.

Primerica's reps are trying to sell insurance and other 'financial products', but they know very little, if anything, about what they're selling, so the consumers are uninformed and mislead. Unfortunately, the customers don't find any of this out until after they have purchased a policy, and they try to get the policy serviced. And the ridiculous part is that Primerica really believes that even in light of being misinformed and misled, the customers should still be convinced by the rep to make the purchase! They believe that you should tell the customer as little as possible, sprinkle around a little BS, but just convince them to buy! With Primerica's 'prospecting' tactics, most customers run away screaming. As anyone who is legitimate in the insurance business knows, a reputable agent does not have to prospect.

Primerica's representatives are poorly trained in the art of selling, and know very little about the insurance industry or the financial services industry. They offer the least training possible (usually a weekend crash-course with a self-described insuarance expert) so their reps can pass the Life, Accident, and Health portions of the insurance licensing test and start selling and bringing in money right away. Most people cannot be 'trained' to sell; either you can or you can't. This makes no difference to Primerica because the more blind, uninformed followers (reps) they have, the more money the company makes. Helping people get out of debt and moving toward an early/easy retirement is a bunch of propaganda crap. Who is becoming financially independent? Not the entry level reps. Most people do not realize how small the commissions are on insurance policies and other 'financial products' (such as the ones sold by Primerica).

Talk to any REPUTABLE insurance salesman, and find out how many policies have to be sold per month to become financially independent. Believe me, I know. Not only did I sell insurance for some time, but my current husband is a REPUTABLE insurance salesman in a family-owned agency, and we are FAR from financially independent. What Primerica also hides from its victims is its past affiliation with A.L. Williams. Does anyone remember A.L. Williams?

Does anyone remember the scandal with and the investigation by the SEC after they tried to run a rival company called Amerishare Investors out of business? Why do you think A.L. Williams and his company disappeared off of the face of the earth? Primerica is the same company. They were actually the parent company of A.L. Williams. I (very much against my will) was exposed to this company 15 years ago, just before I got married. My then-fiancee and I were intelligent and strong-minded enough, however, to see these people and the company for what is really was (and is), so were not sucked in by them; not that they didn't try to get us. They were unrelenting, calling us several times a day at home, leaving many messages on the machine, saying that they will keep calling until we agree to an appointment, dropping over, etc. The idiot that was calling us was actually the friend of a family member of my then-fiancee. I must point out that the family memmber DID NOT give the rep any info about us. This rep took it upon himself to try to recruit us because we were young and just starting out. He also felt that we were young, we were naive enough and as stupid as he was to believe all of the hype and crap; and of course, he wanted to use us, all of our young friends, and my large family to make money.

This idiot came to our wedding, UNINVITED, to try to recruit us AND to 'prospect' for himself! That is the honest-to-God truth! Their tactics have not changed, as I still get these idiots contacting my current husband and me after obtaining our resumes and/or personal information from legitimate sources.

We are contacted by them on a regular basis. They have covertly (illegally?) obtained information on my husband through insurance licensing information sources in our state, since my husband is a licensed insurance rep and they would LOVE to snare him because he would need no training whatsoever! He could just start making money for his imbecile 'uplines'! They are predators that scan resume resources and other employment resources then contact candidates with the false offer of a management position. If the company is so reputable, why are they constantly contacting people to try to dupe them into signing up? If it is a true employment opportunity, why do you have to sign up? Funny, that their reps cannot answer these questions. The 'interviews' are nothing more than rally sessions where the weak-minded representatives try to get other weak-minded people 'pumped up' about all the supposedly WONDERFUL things Primerica has to offer. They are counting on the crowd contagion factor. After that, they will bother you non-stop. They will harass you and try to force you to reveal the personal information of friends and family members that they will later try force you to contact and make appointments with so you can sell to them (they call them references at the beginning of the reeling-in process). They want you to 'prospect' and 'recruit' by calling everyone you know (the rep I was bothered by came to my home and DEMANDED that I get out my address book so he could sit next to me while I made phone calls for appointments!!), or just dropping by their homes to drop off some literataure. The popular training tactic is to leave you car running so your victim will believe that you have just 'dropped by' and that you are not pressuring them, when in fact you are. They even want you to 'prospect' in public places like shopping malls. Primerica also heavily promotes that 'rah-rah' attitude about the company because they want to hide the truth. They don't want their reps revealing the truth. It's all a smoke and mirrors thing. So, the defenders and representatives of Primerica can continue to whine and cry and object to what people are and have been revealing about the company and its tactics, but the bottome line is that all the negative stuff (and more)is true. They have to operate covertly because they don't want to reveal what is really going on. They have to rely on weak-minded, gullible people because most people can recognize what is really going on, and they know what the deal is. The few people at the top of Primerica who are rich and financially independent have become that way by deceiving a lot of people, selling out and selling this crap of 'the dream' to many, many gullible and financially desperate people in this country who are willing to and need to believe it.
#72
Ex-Employee
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POSTED: Wednesday, September 17, 2003
Wow! I never thought I woiuld find this many views!

Last week I responded to an ad that said, "Willing to train." I callled the ad and set up and interview, and I later found out this was not an interview, but rather an orientation of propaganda. I am a full time eductor--yes currently employed--with a background in finance/accounitng to boot, and so, I am not dooped easily. I listened and agreed with the speaker. Then, I was approached because of "my skills", and was requested to attend another, but more personal interview. One of the things I thought was strange was that no one at the company [Primerica] asked to see my resume or asked for an official list of references. This process was not up to the professional par I was used to. However, having student loans and looking to make an extra buck, I agreed to a personal interview.

When I showed up to the interview--wearing a suit with my resume and clearances and certifications in hand--I got more of a pep talk than a serious interview. How can you hire someone for a professional position without seeing a resume of work experience and skills, and then not call and confirm this information? What I received was, that I had "skills", and " I would do well in the field", and " I would be able to make a six figure income in little time." I started getting skeptical.

To all of those whose say people back out because they are angry--I have a background in psychology so I understand this--or unsuccesssful, I say this: I am backing out of my meeting this Friday, because I refuse to ruin my professional reputation that I have built over the past 8 yrs (I am only 30 yrs old.) and have a bad reputation follow me to future employers too. I have worked to hard to have it all thrown away. I have sent them a check for $199, but I place a stop payment on the check, and I will contact my RVP tomorrow about my decision.

I am glad to have found this site before I started my training. Then, I would probably not be able to keep my $199. Primerica may work for some people and not for others. All I know is that I am educated, currently employed, and not desperate for work. I have strong business ethics, and these ethics are the reason for my decision not to try my hand at Primerica.
#73
Consumer Comment
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My Experience

Angel - Staten Island (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Tuesday, October 07, 2003
About six years ago, a representative of Primerica came to my home. I was not there but my then fiancee was. The woman gave him literature and told him how by joining Primerica he could get out of debt and in time become very wealthy. He took the information she left and said he had to wait for me to come home from work before he made any decisions.

When I got home he was excited and could not wait to show & tell. He told me all of the wonderful things we would be able to do and so on and so forth. My question to him was how much? He said oh well I don't know yet I have to wait for her to call me to set up an appointment.

I said to him baby we work for one of he largest telecommunications companies in the world and never once did they ask you to pay them for your salary, furthermore, they never asked you to go to any one's home to recruit them for your salary.

I guess in the end he understood that it was a scheme like all of the silly e mails we receive day in and day out about "make $5000.00 in a week from home" Give me a break. My resolve is, if it were really true why wouldn't all americans or all people for that matter be wealthy, out of debt, living well somewhere with thier families?

By the way, I am also an actress and I once went on a casting call for one of those pyramid scheme videos that you all have seen about how much xyz company has benefitted me. Good Luck!
#74
Consumer Comment
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A suggestion for those contacted by PFS

Ryan - Altoona (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Thursday, October 23, 2003
Those scumbags got my information from monster.com, and I found an effective way of dealing with them.

When I went to the meeting/pep rally, I knew something foul was afoot when they wouldn't give any straight answers. I started to walk out, and they actually ahd the nerve to ask me for the names, addresses, and phone numbers of my family, friends, and anyone else who might be "helped" by Primerica. I took the sheet home, and gave them the names, addresses and phone numbers of various violent criminals out on parole, rapists, pedophiles, etc...the most dangerous, random, and sadistic criminals the United States have to offer.

I never heard from Primerica again...imagine that!
#75
Employee
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Employee of parent company Citigroup

Karen - Mpls (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Saturday, October 25, 2003
I have been reading all the previous entries regarding Prime America. I had no idea about this scam at all. I feel offended of everything these people went thru. Making honest efforts to set up an interview and explore new job options just to be not taken seriously and recruited into some Amway type club. I just had no idea. It makes me not like Citigroup even the more knowing that they are taking part in this activity. I just had no idea at all.

I work in the Auto Finance Division of Arcadia Financial. Parent company of course being Citigroup. Not being the most satisfied of employees, I too have had my resume on Monster.com as well and every time I get more than one email from Prime America. I have not really researched this company much but judging by all the posts on this company it sounds absolutely dreadful. I'm just really discouraged that Citigroup is the parent company to something so rediculous. It is a cult people.

In regards to the previous comments, stating that people chant "Amen" and all that, it's definitely not appropriate. In todays day and age, religion must be kept out of things for legal concerns of course. I think that is obsurd that they are doing this. Amway sucks and I'm sure Prime America sucks just as bad too. I am more than happy that I was informed on this scam and I am definitely not pleased with being an employee of Citigroup if they are propegating this type of business.

Appreciate the info folks.
#76
Ex-Employee
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POSTED: Tuesday, March 16, 2004
I used to be a Primerica agent for about 6 months and got my Division promotion within months and I have made some money and recruited a couple of people into the system.

The Primerica concept of buy term and invest the difference does work. The company in itself isn't a scam, it's the agents within the organization that makes it that way.

I came from a baseshop where the RVP was the TOP producer for PFS in Canada for some months and we supposedly beat the top dog Francisco Dillion for a month. So all of you in PFS you know which baseshop I'm talking about. So I know a think or two about how to be successful in PFS.

The thing that is wrong with PFS agents is they act like they have the solution to the worlds financial problems and for a couple of months I believed in that BS. But in reality PFS agents are the most uneducated people within the Financial Services industry. We weren't given any formal training and we were pushed to sell this stuff. We weren't told that Primerica term is a very expensive term and most insurance companies in Canada have way cheaper term.

Comparison for a 45 year old non-smoking male buying a $200,000 term 20 with waiver of premium:

Primerica Price (My old policy)
Monthly cost: $73.25
Annually cost: $771.00
Annual policy fee: $85

AIG Life of Canada (My new policy)
Monthly cost: $56.97
Annually cost: $633.00
Annual policy fee: $75.00

The comparison speaks for itself, and I used one of the more expensive insurance companies to illustrate the fact that PFS agents dunno what they are talking about. They say that their policy fees are the cheapest, and they are if your comparing them to WL/UL policies because of the fact that WL/UL have more administrative task to be done to them. But compared to another term life they don't match up.

Plus the terminal illness rider that the PFS agents rave about, well in Canada most insurance comapnies have that clause in their new policies too, they just don't overly advertise the fact. Plus PFS agents try to compare the terminal illness clause to the critical illness insurance that most other companies have a variant of. But the fact is they aren't the same thing!!!!!! The terminal Illness clause only take affect when you are diagnosed with an illness and the doctors KNOW you are going to die within a certain amount of time. Were as Critical Illness is insurance that pays you a sum of money when the doctor diagnoses you with an illness (deemed critical with the policy contract) whether or not your going to die. PFS agents try to tell clients why pay for critical Illness if we have terminal illness in the insurance policy. that's fraudulant, but it can't be blamed in the agents themselves, because most of their trainers dunno the fact as well, because the RVP don't tell them that fact and it just filters through the system. Remember you duplicate your upline no matter what.

Another problem that arise from a Primerica policy is the increasing benefit rider. Most agents (including myself) sold it as a free rider that gives you a choice of whether to add 5 or 10% coverage to your existing policy. But the truth is it ain't a choice unless you make it one. If you get the IBR every year Primerica will send you a letter stating that your premium will increase due to the fact that they are adding another 5 or 10% to your coverage, you have to check off "no" and send the letter back to Primerica to get your premiums lowered. It's still a choice but really is it? But PFS agents dunno that fact because their uplines told them and I quote "It's a rider which allows you to add 5 to 10% to your coverage without a medical, and every year Primerica will send you a letter, you just simply check yes or no to the coverage and send it back." Boy was that misleading.

All that was only the problems with their insurance sales tactics, I'm not even going to talk about their loan "shark" program, or their shotty seg. funds (really high MER there). Also they have some very bad malpratice behaviours in some baseshops.

The point being is that Primerica is like any other insurance company they have products to sell and some of them are okay (ie term 25 and term 30, cause most insurance companies don't have those products.) and they are priced competitive, but the only way the Primerica gets such a bad rep it's because their Agents dunno squat about the open market and push their products as the saviour to your financial problems.

And to all those who say Primerica weeds out people, it doesn't, it just scares people. If they actually had better product knowledge seminars instead of "pump up recruiting" or " Primerica is the saviour" meetings and seminars you wouldn't see this much complaints towards the company.

I am now working at an insurance brokerage and making decent money selling term insurance along with other products. I believe the Primerica theology but I can't agree with most of their ignorant agents they have.
#77
Consumer Comment
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POSTED: Monday, April 19, 2004
I was very cautious when my wife approached me about Primerica. I had heard and about it over 11 years earlier and really didn't have much time for it.

After an agent from the company were able to help my parents (who are retired and on pension) to see light at the end of the tunnel that was not a train. I had to admit they were doing some good.

My parent were barely able to get by through the "using one credit card to pay another and use a line of credit to pay that credit card" method.

The Primerica company orchestrated the complete elimination in less than 6 years. Previously, there was no way they were going to make it on their pensions.

I have heard a lot of garbage from people who don't like Primerica but I am glad to say that you didn't convince not to look in to it. I didn't have the means to help my parents and they did.

I wish I had listened earlier because my parents would have been debt free and enjoying there retirement a few years back. They deserve it. Those people whose ridiculous ideas that Primerica does not help people nearly ruined my parents lives by slowing down the process of my parents being helped.

Personally I would like to give people like that a good thrashing for causing other people to suffer. Unfortunately I don't have enough time to kick all the butts that would be necessary.
#78
Employee
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The Good, The Bad, & The Ugly

J. - Blue Bell (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Thursday, May 13, 2004
I have been in PFS for 3 months and am thankful to have come across this report. I have seen the good, the bad, and the ugly. Let me start with the ugly.

Ugly- PFS response to objections. We are purposely trained to not answer questions directly. We redirect the conversation through the use of questions, which many people find intimidating. We are also told to never ask anyone what they THINK, but to ask them about the potential and whether it is worth looking into. Telling people to basically discourage THINKING lends itself to deception. This is not a strategy that I'm willing to participate in, especially since it harms my credibility (and has done the same to the company's credibility overall). That is a poor strategy when people are suspecting PYRAMID SCAM.

Bad- Primerica's "No Call" policy. Um, not really. You must use a phone to call people. My RVP actually recommended using a phone book and "cold calling" if you have no prospects and need clients/recruits. I said "what about the 'no call' policy?" and was basically told to "get creative". So, Primerica's "No Call" policy requires a creative interpretation.

Bad- Primerica's FNA (Financial Needs Analysis). The agents market it as a financial plan. Read the fine print inside and it states that it is not a qualified financial plan. Ah, that word "qualified". This must require another creative interpretation! This is just a marketing tool for Citigroup, customized to fit each client's personal financial situation. I sell it as such and not a financial plan. Financial plans require a fee and come from more qualified individuals.

More Bad- $.M.A.R.T. loans. They are only approved 20% of the times an application is submitted and the rates Citigroup charges are high. This makes me ill and not too confident to sell this product.

Good- Primerica's FNA is free. It does offer helpful advice on how to improve your financial situation with Citigroup products, but what you do with that advice is up to you. It's a great report for anyone who would not pay for a financial plan or can't afford one, and does teach the consumer some basic financial concepts that work. Unfortunately in many cases, that work is more for Citigroup and less for the client.

Good, Bad, & Ugly all rolled into one: Life insurance. It certainly is not the cheapest, this is true. But price only matters in the absence of value, right? The benefit of Primerica's life insurance is the ability to transfer term to term without a medical exam. I have never heard of any other insurance company that does this (if you know if one, please share). If you are young and have kids, this is invaluable. Otherwise, go with the cheaper insurance. But the concept of buying term and investing the difference is legit. Why pay an insurance company to hold your cash value when you can just as well save it yourself? Keep your savings separate from your insurance, people! And who honestly needs insurance until they are 100?

Conclusion: If Primerica agents truly had the client's best interest at heart, they would be a brokerage firm and not agents of Citigroup. They have sold out their crusade to "the #1 financial services company in the world". Yes, a trillion in assets, blah, blah, blah.

Brokers represent the clients and agents represent the company. Remember that and be careful. I'm sticking around for awhile because I have been able to help some people close to me. I am thankful to Primerica for the "opportunity", but what I make of it will be what is best for me and not the business.
#79
Consumer Comment
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POSTED: Tuesday, June 22, 2004
My next door neighbor approached me a few months back and inquired as to my availability the next evening for a "financial services" presentation. He and his recruiter would be by at 7pm to review our finances. As he is a good friend, I agreed. However, I was quite skeptical given the fact that my neighbor works for the municipal water works and has zero financial services background.

The next evening my neighbor and his trainer/recruiter showed up. My neighbor literally did not say a word. He simply watched as the PFS agent rattled on about "buy term and invest the difference". When I asked the PFS agent about his financial services background, he said that he had been a meat cutter prior to joining PFS. That set off every red flag in the book. This guy knew no more about financial services than the man on the moon. He simply wanted the commission from the sale and would hand me over to a Citigroup mutual fund salesman. I politely declined his offer to switch my cash value insurance for term insurance. He became rather pushy, and I finally had to ask him to leave.

A few days later, my neighbor said that he had decided that PFS was definitely not the place for him. His recruiter had used up all his leads and had left him high and dry in terms of developing any new leads. He decided that he was not a salesman and did not want to alienate any more family, friends or coworkers.
#80
Consumer Comment
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POSTED: Wednesday, June 23, 2004
Wow good thing I did my homework before signing on to this company. I, too was "recurited" by Primerica. They have gave me the big line of BS and ill admit I fell for it hook, line, and sinker. Anyone flashing 6 figures will make anyone see $$$ signs.
#81
Consumer Comment
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Primerica is a terrible company

Fred - Confidential (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Tuesday, June 29, 2004
Primerica is a terrible company for ripping people off like this, I worked with them and finally couldn't lie to people anymore I felt horrible. I'd rather be payed less and work an honest 9-5.

Sincerely,
#82
Consumer Comment
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POSTED: Tuesday, July 06, 2004
thank you primerica "owners"(?) for helping me see the light..

The only reason that I came to this web site was to check out the legitimacy of Primerica, because I was considering a job opportunity with the company. I have learned a lot.

The owners of primerica seem to be very defensive, and seem to be looking for an excuse to degrade the value of education. Anyone who downplays the importance of bettering yourself, is someone I stay away from. When I speak of making myself a better person, I am not referring to fattening my wallet. I can make enough money to support my family whether I have a college education or not(which by the way I am working on), but I feel much better about doing it in an honest way.
#83
Individual Responds
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Primerica - Monster.com scam

Sally - Orlando (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Wednesday, July 14, 2004
Anybody know how these "sales people" get your phone number, is it just cold calling through the phone book?
Because I too have my resume posted on a few sights but its under-confidentially.
I am currently in the market looking for a job, I've sent out a ton of resumes. But when this woman left a message on my answering machine she didn't even say my name she just started in the middle with: - I'm calling about setting up a interview with you about working in my company. She left the name 'Jean Karon' and phone number [delete] on my ID it read [delete]PRIMERICA FIN.
Any feedback would be appreciated, I had such a gut feeling not to call back and THANK GOD I didn't, especially after reading these responses. The Rip-Off report sight forever stays in my favorites file for reasons like this.
#84
Consumer Suggestion
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RipOff Report saved me, thank you!

Jay S. - Peoria (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Thursday, July 15, 2004
First, I immensely wish to Thank this website for helping me & my wife make a decision on attending the "interview" with Primerica Financial Group.
I hope what I have to say will help others too.

OK.
I have an advance degree in Engineering and work for a $30 bn global-construction enterprise. My wife also has an advance degree in Engineering but is currently in transition from her previous job which she resigned to move in with me after our marriage.

Now one fine day...She gets an email from a recruiter saying that he is meeting with "selected candidates" at a city about a few hours drive from our place. He would really like to meet her and talk with her about her qualifications and their needs. He goes on to say that they are trying to expand in the Central Illinois Area (I live in Central Illinois) and are looking for dynamic self-propelling employees who can be Managers.

WOW! I thought thats too ambitious for a person with little experience and fairly fresh out of schoo.

My suspicions grew (and I think these are pretty good indicators for anyone looking to smell-a-scam) because:

1. She was told that her current "lack" of experience in Financial Services didn't matter and she would be totally trained. DIFFERENT.

2. She was not told any details about her "JOB DESCRIPTION" nor what area she would be working on. STRANGE.

3. She was not told where she would be working or how much she would be paid to do it. WIERD.

I chanced to type in "Primerica" in Google and the second link was RIPOFFREPORT.com. I felt bad telling her because she was looking forward to start working after a couple of month's break. But having gone through one of these experiences before (when I was still in school) I had to.

Now that we know how to smell-a-scam, we are thankful to all the people who have commented on this website for:
1. Saving us the trip & expenses
2. Saving us the pain of sitting through the "chants & B.S" for hours together and
3. The harassment of their reps afterward

I agree that it works for some,
But for someone who wants to "live by his word" and be able to live happily with what I have, even if it is little, it just doesn't make sense.

Sincerely,
#85
Employee
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POSTED: Friday, July 16, 2004
It's funny all the trashing being done to Primerica however what is really getting my attention is the fact that after Mark from Canada made his statement of how PFS came in and literally saved his parents finacial lives...the trashing continued with out one statement about his experience...Now here is the kicker we have more clients like his parents, than the trashing going on...every company has "bad Seeds" especially ones as large as ours,but those are few and far between..Primerica from my experience has given people the opportunity to dream again...in all areas...it's not for everyone, but if you failed because it was not for you ... there is no reason to become angry..go find something that is for you...BOTTOM line Primerica isn't going anywhere, GET OVER IT....take a look at other company's...oh be sure and check them out as well...there may be a flaw..after all their are humans running it!!!!!!!!

Best of luck in your searching for whatever it is you people are looking for
#86
Consumer Comment
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POSTED: Saturday, July 17, 2004
I am not am employee of Primerica, but my wife is. I have seen many people's lives improved financially because of what the company offers. In fact, my parents managed to avoid bankruptcy (they are retired and living on a fixed income) because of the programs that were introduced to them by my wife.

Now as far as the "cult" aspect. It is true that in any type of business there are greedy and unethical people that will do anything for the almighty dollar. Go see several new car dealerships or see a few real estate angents and see how what percentage are really interested in your best interest.

My wife does not concentrate on recruiting. She concentrates on doing business and helping people. If someone decides to join the company along the line, great. If not, at least she helped people.

For those reading who think that the "little people" never make any money in the company, I have seen many cheques come in with my wifes name on it after people were helped.

For those who try to use Primerica as a "get-rich quick scheme", they will be dissapointed. You might earn lots of money, but it takes time and effort just like any other legitimate business.

FYI: If someone who is supposed to represent Primerica is not following company guidelines and is acting unethically, the best thing you can do is contact the "compliance" department. Primerica agents are licenced by the State (USA) and Provinces (Canada) and the industry is highly regulated. If you can offer proof that they are acting against regulations the agent's licence will be revoked. Why not do that instead of bad-mouthing the good people.

Just a thought.
#87
Individual Responds
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POSTED: Wednesday, July 21, 2004
I went to a couple meetings with an RVP here in Wisconsin and originally meant to sign up for the licensing test. However, only after the first 'mentoring' session, I decided this job was not for me and I did not want to do it. So I gave them a call right away later in the same day to let them know I did not want to attend the training nor interested in working for them.

The next day they left me a message saying that I have to write to the Headquarters for the refund and there'll be a $40 processing fee--which is something I was NEVER made aware of--neither from any conversation nor paper that I signed.

If any of you have been in a similar situation or have received a full $199 refund without being told otherwise, please do share your opinion with me.

Thank you,
#88
Ex-Employee
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Refund of $199 in Wisconsin

Justus - Bel Air (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Thursday, July 22, 2004
You should not have any problem getting the entire $199 refunded, if you specify so in writing to the HQ. I think the $40 is a gimmick to restain you from backing out, but not a general company policy.

It is a shame the field force of Primerica is trained to dupe people than do business in an ethical manner.
#89
Consumer Comment
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POSTED: Wednesday, July 21, 2004
I received a phone call today from a Primerica rep to come into an "interview" for their company. Thankfully, I found your website only moments after I got off the phone with them. As I was talking to the Primerica rep I kept thinking, "Where did they get my resume?" Then it donned on me. I placed my resume on the Monster Jobs website the previous day. Could that be where they got a hold of my resume? Or is it just a coincidence? That's up to you all to decide!
#90
Consumer Comment
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Thanks ffor the Warnings and Flags!

Steve - Eagan (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Thursday, July 22, 2004
I was also contacted by a rep from Primerica and remember being contacted 6 years ago by the same comapny - hummm -
Both obtained my information from MONSTER.COM

I started to ask questions about what in particular in my skillset was a match with this "Manager" position that I was in essence "offered" over the phone. Pretty vauge response - although he knew my name and address pretty well ... he had no idea I was an Art Director with 20 years under my belt.

Here's the kicker - I kept asking (this is before I read all these posts or knew that this was a one of those MLM schemes) do I have to sell or pitch products? Answer: no. I only had to "make presentaations." It was all very clouded and vauge.

Anyway - thanks for all this info - I see by reading all these posts that this PRIMERICA is nothing more than a scam.

Regarding the "AMENS" chanted on the video - having NOT seen the video - I am assuming this is true ...

anyway - I find this incredibly offensive!!!
There is a time and a place - but keep Church out of business and government!!!!
Granted - I did some work for Billy Graham and in THAT case - it was "acceptible" even though I did not have to participate in "prays"
and I didn't ...

I think it's very, very pompus for a company to have AMEN chants in it's official presentations!!!

Leave that for your Church time!!

But keep it out of business!!!

Thank you all for the posts - I won't waste my time with this fraud of a company.

Peace, Steve Streeter
#91
Consumer Comment
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And if you bought a policy

Jim - Hometown (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Friday, July 23, 2004
Be sure when you cancel it that you make sure to tell them to stop your bank drafts. I canceled the other day by Fax, which they accept, and called to confirm receipt of same. When I called, the representative on the phone asked if I had notified the department that handels this as well. I asked why, since the policy was never issued. She informed me that this had to be done as well. So, just a word of advice to all out there reading this site.

Sure would have been intersting if they'd of started drafting my account after canceling a policy I never received.
#92
Individual Responds
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HELP ME GO TO SCHOOL

ARTHUR EMMANUEL - KUMASI (Ghana)

POSTED: Friday, July 30, 2004
I have head about your good favour so try to send me to the university. I have completed senior secondary school in 2004 with grade 25
#93
Consumer Comment
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POSTED: Saturday, July 31, 2004
There has been a bona fide request from an African who is badly in need of an educational opportunity. What does Primerica have to say about helping him?

I think all discussion should cease until we get an answer from Primerica - Citigroup. Then we will see what they are really made of.
#94
Consumer Comment
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POSTED: Monday, August 02, 2004
As of the responses talked of undereducated and part time associates I wondered want educational background the respondents had on the subject of personal finance?

I also noticed that any responses that opposite of your editorial beliefs were discounted by the Micheal Moore mentality.

Citigroup is the largest financial service company in the world,with over $1 Trillion in assets. Primerica is the distribution arm of Citigroup. Do not use trash journalism to infer any scams or insinuations like the Trash Newspapers.

If you truly want to represent Consumers you should search out the truth and provide meaningful information about what you are asked. I will not ever access you website again. Because it is nothing but hateful biased reporting. I truly doubt the realability of any of the so called rip-off reports you have listed.

If any inappropiate behavior was done by Citigroup or Primerica in our current business environment regulators would be filing charges. Since October 2003 after President Bush signed the legislation requiring closer scrutiny of business accountability 500 executives and CEO's have been charged, 200 have either been convicted or settled. Also the Attorney General of N.Y. has been very active in tracking down any bad behavior among the financial business in his jurisdiction. Do you think that the largest corporation in total assets, CitiGroup ( according to Forbes magazine) would be a bonnie feather in his cap?
#95
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POSTED: Tuesday, August 03, 2004
Thanks to Lee in Boyce, TX for the entertaining post.

Lee said: "Citigroup is the largest financial service company in the world,with over $1 Trillion in assets. Primerica is the distribution arm of Citigroup."

ED? Please supply the usual reply to this one, eh mate?

Lee also said: "If you truly want to represent Consumers you should search out the truth and provide meaningful information about what you are asked. I will not ever access you website again. Because it is nothing but hateful biased reporting. I truly doubt the realability of any of the so called rip-off reports you have listed."

CONSUMERS gave their opinions here, positive and negative. It so happens that the negative outnumbers the positive. How exactly does that constitute "hateful biased reporting"? On second thought, since you won't be back to hang around all this stinkin' thinkin' (heh), I won't be expecting a reply. But please do return and update us when your "realability" kicks in.
#96
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POSTED: Thursday, August 05, 2004
Well, I received a follow-up call for "Jeff's" Supervisor Manager type asking me why I missed the meeting and wanting to get me to the next one ...

I explained that Jeff didn't leave a phone # to call back, so I was sorry I didn't get back to tell Jeff I wasn't interested.

I explained the VAST number of complains against Primerica, asked if the chants of Amen were true in ANY Primerica videos -
She told me CATEGORICALLY - NO - there were no such chants of AMEN in Absolutely ANY Primerica tape ... someone is lying here.

What struck me as just amazing was that after describing my research - I looked at the POSITIVE sites too - which all seemed to me good PR without any testimonials to speak of she said ...

"Try looking up the work GOD."

I said, "WHAT?? What does God have to do with Primerica??"

This was her way of showing that the internet is just a garbage tool to find out anything - I guess ... which I disagree and told her so -
I was very offended - religion and God are private matters ... PERIOD!!!

My religion or lack there of is of NO BUSINESS to any company I work for.

Why did she ask me to look up GOD and why was THAT the first word she thought of??

It was creepy!

The upshot is - she FINALLY said - "I don't think your the type of person we're looking for..."

That was after I said I like to work hard at my JOB! For some reason they don't like the "job" word. Funny - it never bothered me ...
#97
Employee
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POSTED: Friday, August 06, 2004
I was downloading an information talk piece from Primerica's agent support site, and while it printed, I popped into this site to see what people know or think about Primerica.

Boy, was I surprised! This particular comment string has such a conglomeration of mistaken impressions that I couldn't resist commenting.

Here are some of my thoughts --

Does Primerica market quality products at a reasonable price? Absolutely! The insurance and investments that are presented and sold to clients are among some of the best available to the public.

Are there less expensive products out there? Of course! It is a fair bet that someone can find cheaper insurance programs and can invest in mutual funds through some company that has lower fees. But most of those companies will not have a Parent Company (Citigroup) that does a trillion dollars in business. (Do you want to own cheap insurance from a company that might not be there tomorrow, or from a company the size and prestige of Citigroup?)

Does Primerica encourage associates to recruit? Yes -- it is the best way for someone to build up their business. That is, if someone wants to simply sell insurance and assist families with their financial situation, a Primerica agent may do that. However, If you want to reach more families, and earn greater income, you have to "expand" your business, and the only way to do that is to "replicate" yourself, bring someone else on board who can see 10 more clients while you see 10 clients.

There was a message in this site from an Instructional Designer who has a Master's Degree and who was very disillusioned with the Primerica opportunity because they would have to start from the bottom and compete with others with "less credentials". To that person, and any other person who thinks that Primerica "preys on" uneducated individuals and sells them a "pipe dream", please read this: I, too, have a Master's Degree, and I have worked for Fortune 100 companies. I chose to go to work for Primerica, right along side of people who have only a high school education, because this company does not label people or place them in a box (also known on typical job descriptions as "minimum requirements").

This company presents all new recruits with a "Level Playing Ground". Success in Primerica has little to do with how much education you have, or what race or gender you are, and everything to do with how much drive and enthusiasm you have!!! I might be more educated than other agents in Primerica, but whoever works harder will make more money -- that's the bottom line. My education might help me in some small ways -- maybe I will learn faster and make fewer mistakes -- but pretty much anyone can succeed in this business!

It seems to me that the people at this site who complain the loudest about their impression of Primerica are people who did not have the time or courage to give it a try. This company is based on the idea that if you truly try and if you are willing and able to keep on striving, even after some rejection, you can succeed.

Can everyone who joins the company be successful? Absolutely not! Some people who come to the initial overviews will see it as a scam, and they won't even try. Some will start with the company but they will be afraid of failing, so they won't even try to find any clients and they will drift off. (That's right --unlike most "jobs", people don't have to say "I Quit" -- they can just stop trying and disappear from the opportunity.)

There was a message in this site from a young man from Africa who was asking about possibly working for Primerica. Well, that would be difficult since Primerica does not yet have operations in Africa. But that might happen in the future, since the company is currently expanding into Europe and Asia. If that young man were to immigrate to the United States, I'm sure he could work for Primerica. Our office currently has people from India, Pakistan, Mexico, Russia, Poland and many other nations who are becoming agents and successfully aiding other families in their ethnic communities to establish sound Family Finaces.

Why does Primerica ask people to pay $199 to start with the company? Well, $159 of that is tuition cost for their Life Insurance class and the remaining $40 is to cover the cost of a background check to avoid hiring people who have a disreputable background into the insurance/securities business. Actually, the cost to start in the business should probably be more -- like maybe $5,000 or $10,000. That would be a small amount compared to other "franchise fees" to start a personal business, but if someone put down that kind of money, they would be far more likely to give it some REAL EFFORT!

One final thought -- One individual wrote that they had been working at "Zooper Burger" (Is that a real place?) for 5 years, but they disliked the Primerica opportunity. Unbelieveable!!! Someone who has been flipping burgers for 5 years has an opportunity to start their own business, and if they were to really work at it, they could make $100,000 or more per year! What other company would ever give that person that kind of opportunity? I doubt that there is one!!! Best of luck to all those people out there who have resigned themselves to a lifelong job at the burger joints, or at the quick-lube places or at the checkstands at their local "Whatever-Mart". But I'm sure that there are a lot of people who would love to have an opportunity to go after bigger things!

So, say what you wish about Primerica. I will readily admit that I am not making hundreds of thousands of dollars, but I know that it is my own fault. I have not been building my business as aggressively as other people, even some others in my own office. But if someone wants to be successful and if they surround themselves with recruits/trainees who are also willing to work hard at becoming successful, Primerica is a great place to work.

Oh, yeah -- the enthusiasm that people hear about or see at the meetings...!? Other companies do that, too! Except there it's called "a corporate sales meeting"! (I've seen a senior sales executive get cheers and wild applause when he knocked the competition's product off the stage with a baseball bat!!!) So what's wrong with the audience responding with applause or a rousing affirmation ("YES!" or "Right on!") or even an "Amen!" or two when a speaker tells about saving a family over $100,000 of interest on debt, or over $300 on monthly life insurance premium or even when they help a new recruit start their own business? Yes, there is a bit of "crusade" mentality going on in Primerica. People in Primerica are on a crusade to help families become debt free and financially independent! It seems to me to be a pretty worthwhile cause! [Let me hear an "Amen!"]
#98
Ex-Employee
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My Primerica Experience

Kelly - Brooks (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Friday, August 06, 2004
Wow, it sounds like this Primerica thing is about what I figured. I was duped into a 'business opportunity' dinner with a friend from church tonight and boy, it sounded pretty good since my situation is tough right now and I am pretty desperate to make some money.

My brain kicked in and all the "Clark Howard" rip-off sounds were going off when the guy said there would be a $199 fee for a background check and processing. I was there with my fiance' who happened to have experience with this as he was duped a few years ago by this group. He told me later that after going to all the training meetings, you have to pay for each licence (insurance, mortgage, investing for example) and they were all different prices. He said that for example, the test to get the insurance liscence was only given in a city that is 3 hours away.

You attend two training sessions there and then pay another $80 to take the test. If you pass, they refund the money, if you don't you have to pay another $80 to take the test and then they will refund THAT $80, not the previous $80 that you paid and failed. Sounds like they make more money if you fail. Do they really do the background check? It looks to me like they will take anyone. Maybe they do a credit check.

Anyway, he also told me that the other liscences were more expensive - like around $1,000 and all the while you are getting more business without your liscence so the RVP or whatever gets your commission because you lack the liscence.

It just sounds too good to be true...how can you get $100K's per year for working part time? And if that is true, why isn't everyone doing it? I just don't think that Primerica is on the up and up - from what I read in the previous reports, it sounds to me like they are really more interested in recruiting more suckers to pay their $199 fees than to really help people with their finances. It also seems like maybe some of their methods are a bit sketchy.

The people that have real money - I mean like MONEY - do they use Primerica? Or do they just work with the average joe trying to get out of debt and have a decent life for themselves down the road...does it really work? I mean their methods - like the refinancing, adding the extra money into the refi, extending the loan for 30 years, then paying it off in 15 - wow does anyone have that type of discipline?

Lets see...the average person - has a mortgage and a few credit cards....they refi the house and pay off the credit cards - so Christmas rolls around and you just have to get Johnny the PS2 and Suzi the Brittney Spears outfit...there you go...your credit card is back where it was, and then you have this 30 year loan AND the new credit card bill. The money you were using to put extra on the principle of the mortgage is going to pay the 21% interest credit card and then you are stuck with a higher amount to pay for a roof over your head for 30 YEARS when you had only 12 left on it to begin with.

I question their methods to begin with. It all sounds really good on paper, and maybe with strict discipline it would work...but hey - if we were all disciplined, we wouldn't be in the debt trap that we are in already!

It is just depressing to get hopes up thinking that maybe there is an answer out there - a job where DECENT money can be made and then reality sets in and you realize that they are just like all the other sharks out there.

I am sure there are people that have been successful from Primerica, but on who's back? Not mine.
#99
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Sort it out for yourself.

Jim - Hometown (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Friday, August 06, 2004
There are indeed pros and cons to all issues and products out there. I chose not to pick Primerica after some research intot he company, and cost comparisions. The company I went with has been around a long time and is rates AAA by AM Best.

The final decison maker for me was when my "best new friend" couldn't deliver a policy in 90 days. When he played the "I thought we were developing a friendship" card, I politely told him my friends were people who didn't just call me when they wanted to sell me more investments or insurance. You know what, I haven't heard from my "freind" since.

You sort it out for yourself. This is a good site to gather info. That's what I use it for. Then I go and research and make my own decision.
#100
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Still working at local burger joint

Eric - Cranston (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Thursday, August 19, 2004
I was contacted by Primerica last year. Sounded pretty good. I spoke with one of their employee's, who happened to go to high school with my brother. He mentioned that he also worked at a local burger joint. He kept going on, and on, about how great working for Primerica is, and how much money he's making. He said he was quitting the joint, to work full time with Primerica. Long story short, he's still working at the burger joint, and is still talking up Primerica. Don't fall for the hype. I know I almost did, and thank my lucky stars I didn't.
#101
Employee
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Reponse to "My Experience"

Wendy - Tecumseh (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Friday, August 20, 2004
In your post you talk about the cost of licensing. I believe it is only fair to point out that the testing facility, not Primerica, gets paid your fee for taking the test. If you pass, Primerica reimburses you for the cost of the test and your state's licensing fee. This fee varies by state and is controlled by your state's Insurance Department, not Primerica. If you don't pass your test on the first attempt, that's not Primerica's fault, it's yours. The fees for a securities license also varies by state. In Kansas and Missouri, for example, the fee is $50. The total cost to become licensed to trade securities is around $400. However, the licensing fees are also dictated by your state government, and in some states they could be closer to $1,000.

One of the other things I would like to address that is not directly related to your post, but to this thread is the discussion of Primerica as an "MLM". Before joining Primerica, I researched the company and the business structure throughly, including this site. I learned the difference between a pyramid scheme and a ligitmate MLM. Unfortuantely companies like Amway have given this business structure a black eye. It is, in fact, a legitimate business structure with advantages and disadvantages just like any other.

One thing that some fail to realize is that many of the most successful companies around today use the MLM business structure. Avon, Tupperware, Mary Kay, Pampered Chef, Tastefully Simple, Creative Memories, just to name a few. I don't hear many complaints about how they recruit new people in order to expand their business. I am sure that there are some Primerica office owners who use unethical tactics to find new people, but remember, each of us is an independent contractor.

The actions of one do not respresent the actions of all. I work out of a very ethical office where behavior such as what has been described in this thread would not be tolerated. There are very strict ethics standards that we must comply with, and should unethical behavior be witnessed, the company should be notified immediately. Please understand, too, that Primerica is not a "cult" or "church". It is simply a company founded on Christian principles, just as Mary Kay and many other companies are.
#102
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POSTED: Saturday, August 21, 2004
I am a clergy person and would like to know the "Christian Principles" the company was founded on or currently uses. As you know from my posts, I have been "recruited," but declined, and was a customer until they really didn't do much for me in the investment end. After all, God did tell me to use the gifts I get wisely.

So can an employee define these for me? I have a hard time finding them in the current structure.
#103
Ex-Employee
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Wendy from Kansas is full of hot air

Stuart - North Brunswick (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Sunday, August 22, 2004
I'm excerpting part of Wendy's post:

"One of the other things I would like to address that is not directly related to your post, but to this thread is the discussion of Primerica as an "MLM". Before joining Primerica, I researched the company and the business structure throughly, including this site. I learned the difference between a pyramid scheme and a ligitmate MLM. Unfortuantely companies like Amway have given this business structure a black eye. It is, in fact, a legitimate business structure with advantages and disadvantages just like any other.

One thing that some fail to realize is that many of the most successful companies around today use the MLM business structure. Avon, Tupperware, Mary Kay, Pampered Chef, Tastefully Simple, Creative Memories, just to name a few. I don't hear many complaints about how they recruit new people in order to expand their business. I am sure that there are some Primerica office owners who use unethical tactics to find new people, but remember, each of us is an independent contractor."

Avon? Tupperware? Mary Kay? These companies aren't MLM as they don't depend upon the recruitmentprocess as Primerica unsuccessfully does. The home demonstrators don't proactively try to get the buyer to join up with the company as they get paid on sales, not recruitment.

Whether it's called MLM or network marketing is
still a pyramid scheme which is what Primerica
does. Can Primerica produce a rep with no
subordinates who's successfully making a living
off of product sales alone? What percentage of the reps are successfully making a living from sale of product and recruitment combined? (I've heard it's less than 3%). If the only chance for a rep to be successful is through recruitment, then it's impossible for all the reps to be successful as there's only a finite amount of people to draw from out of the prospect pool since there's only a finite amount of people in this world.

I believe that Primerica is a fraudulent company
based on my own personal experience, the hundreds
of posts on this website and other unfavorable
comments and posts elsewheres on the internet.
#104
Ex-Employee
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The true problem

Jason - Murphy (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Sunday, August 22, 2004
After reading all of these posts it struck me that not alot of people even know the bad part of Primerica. Even worse than the money you will throw away at the pep ralleys is the fact that if you ever find someone that does need financial services you wont be qualified or have the products to help them. There are many financial products, term,universal life, mutual funds ect.. they are all tools. When put with the right knowledge and understanding they can all be very powerful tools. The catch here is Primerica sends you out with an empty toolbox. They push a variety of services to give the apperance of sophistication, but at second glance there costly products pushed by people who dont know how to use them. I worked there for a couple weeks and became very discouaged that no matter who I spoke to I was going to have to push term life insurance on them. What if they needed something else? We didnt carry anything else, infact the majority of the time spent in the meetings was directed towards bashing companies that did offer a full range of products. This company could be very dangerous in certain circumstances. Can you imajine if the only remedy your doctor had was chicken noodle soup. What if your machanic could only install ford parts. Well that would work for some but certanly not all. If you need planning please go to someone that offers a full range of options for your families sake, you might not need 20 year term but believe me they will say you do. This company simply sells the most profitable piece of paper in the insurance industry and con people into believing there the good guys for doing so!!!!
#105
Ex-Employee
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To Recruit or not to Recruit.?

Maroun - Montreal (Canada)

POSTED: Monday, August 23, 2004
I am impressed with the amount of responses on this site and would like to congratulate all of those who have done so.

Primerica is a place of hope and opportunity, however it's for a few selective group. Do you like to sell? Let's face it, Insurance is never bought, it's always sold! so do you like to sell, because you will have to do it for the next 3-5 years, before you have built a strong team. Do you have difficulties contacting new people or starting a conversation with a stranger? If yes, you have come to the right place, if no, run away as fast as you can and don't sign the IBA.

The only problem I found in Primerica is that in order to grow, or advance or have higher income, one has to either recruit more or see more people to close more deals, how many can one see and close on a daily basis?

In Canada, all agents work full time, and will be fired if Primerica found out they were working on the side. (It's more strict on the Canadian Side).

And so, we're back to my question: To Recruit or not to Recruit? that is the question. From a Canadian perspective, we sometimes wished we had the same part-time opportunity as our American neighbours, however the positive side of it, is all of those who join the business are serious about doing it.

One suggestion I give to you. When you do decide about this business, I strongly suggest you set some goals, Financially and level Wise. The reason I have left Primerica are simple. I expected to be Regional Leader by the end of one complete fiscal year (once I have attained all of my licences) and RVP at the end of the second year. Some thought it was crazy to leave, however I am truly convinced that if I could not make RL in 12 months, there was no way I will be RVP in 24 months. And so I left. Because I have set these goals, I don't feel sorry for leaving. I gave it all I can and still did not reach my goal, I was close, one promotion away, but I was not willing to deviate from my plan.

Before you sign with Primerica, visit other investment offices, visit your local insurance agent and ask them as many questions as possible on the business, once you have your answers, go and sit with your recruiter and his RVP, and ask them the same questions, analyse what you saw and heard. Then ask your RVP for direction and set goals together. Give yourself a deadline, if you don't reach that goal within the deadline, may be it's time to look somewhere else.
#106
Consumer Suggestion
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POSTED: Monday, August 23, 2004
Avon, Tupperware, Mary Kay, Pampered Chef, Tastefully Simple, Creative Memories all allow reps to make an outstanding living with product sales alone. The profit margins on products sales could exceed 50% depending on volume.

Wendy from Kansas is mostly correct in her analysis of Primerica opportunity as well as Amway.

Primerica business model is not fraudulent by any stretch of the imagination. Nearly 100% of the all negative posters on this forum do not understand the Financial Services industry. Every Financial Services organization in this country depends on successful recruitment to grow their business. Otherwise, their only means of growth will be productivity increases or acquisitions.

Comparing Primerica's recruitment to ML, AMEX or Smith Barney's not a fair comparison because of the difference in their business models. However, both emphasize recruitment for growth.

If you want to recruit like Merrill Lynch join Merrill. However, you will not make it at Merrill either, even if you are good enough to get hired if your attitudes toward success do not change. Based on the quality of your “complaints” I suspect most of you will even get an interview at Merrill.

So, instead exposing your own limitations to the world thru this forum take a look at yourself and make the change. Be thankful for the opportunity Primerica provides many who otherwise may not have an opportunity to even work with a Financial Advisor. Use it as a stepping stone to success, even if it is not the best business model in the world.
#107
Consumer Suggestion
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HomeTown Clergy Declined

Clergy - Bel Air (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Monday, August 23, 2004
Dear Clergy,

You were declined by Primerica? Does that mean you were declined for a product or position? Either way, they would provided an explanation. If so what was the reason?

What do you mean by they didnt do much for you in terms of investments? What were your expectations vs. the results Primerica provided?

For the sake of witnessing to many others who might be helped, could you please clarify these points?
#108
Consumer Comment
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POSTED: Wednesday, August 25, 2004
I declined to go with the company. They have high priced term. I got mine with another A++ AMBest rated Company for 1/2 as much. Their mortg. type is not a good one either, as you can get the same product at your local financial instution for less interest. BTW, my new insurance co had the policy in my hands in 15 days. That included the physical and the underwriting process. PFS didn't even get my application started till after 30 days. But then, if you want "free" insurance...

As for investments, my St. Street Bank did 40+ percent last year. My PFS did 4.5%. You don't have to be a rocket scientist, but I could have gotten that in a CD without the risk.

You wanna witness to people? Do that with your religion, not with financial planning. My PFS "Friend," who only knew me when he wanted to sell me something, hasn't called since. All of this made me glad that I didn't sign up. And so you understand, I have an extensive background in finance. I not only have an MDiv, but a Masters in Admin. and while an Army Chaplain, managed the two largest Chaplians funds in the ARmy. I also manage my own portfolio, why pay someone for something you can do yourself, if someone takes the time to "show you how to fish."
#109
Consumer Comment
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POSTED: Tuesday, August 24, 2004
I was recently contacted by Primerica by Travis Person. He called saying that he saw my resume online, and wanted me to come in and interview for a job. What I found odd about our initial phone call was that he mentioned to me that he makes over 300k a year. I can't ever recall at a job job, where your boss (or bosses) mention the salary that they make. I should have known then. Anyway, he says that he was in my position. Was with his job 7 years and was laid off, and joined Primerica.

I set up an interview, and then did company research. In the process, I found this site. For one, I looked at someone saying put in a search for God and see what you find. Well, I went to Google and did that. I didn't get any negative sites about God on the first page, but I do for Primerica. Hmmm. I noted some of the things people wrote and decided I would ask during my phone call. I also researched this Person and saw that his home was appraised at 130k last year. I found it surprising, considering the salary that was mentioned. I also found that he owned four cars. Okay, so maybe he does make money. However, the cars are a 95 blazer (still being paid for), 90 grand prix (paid for), 85 buick century (paid for) and 88 jeep (paid for). This made me skeptical again.

I called the day of my interview to ask him about the job. I told him that I was familiar with Primerica (which I was) through Todd Arey, who was
a guy who contacted me from Primerica a few years ago. Mr. Arey, who I don't know if he works for Primerica still, does have a 300k home, but only one vehicle. So anyway, I ask Mr. Person the following, based on what I read here:

Do you have to pay to join Primerica? YES
Do you have to build a team to become successful? Not necessarily
Does your uplink make 11% of each sale you make? Says he makes 20-25% of all his people's sales
Is this a straight salary job? no
If no, how much is salary and how much is commission? 100% commission
Who does primerica use as an health insurance carrier? they don't offer health insurance. Plus, he tried to sell me on why health insurance is a ripoff
How easily can I make 50k a year off product sales if I have no subordinates? easily
Does the price of Call Atlanta get higher as you increase in rank? is unaware of that
What do you need to do to acquire your mortgage license? question went unanswered

I told him that I wasn't interested. He said fine, but told me that he walked away from an 80k/yr job
to work for Primerica and said, you do the math. So, he goes from initially saying he was laid off to saying that he quit his job to start Primerica?
I say, stay away from this company.
#110
Consumer Comment
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POSTED: Tuesday, August 24, 2004
THANKS FOR THE HEADS UP

I was contacted at my current job today by one of Primerica's recruiters. Thinking it was a legit job opportunity I excepted the interview. I was,however, a little confused of the time. I mean who does a job interview at 7:30 in the evening. I decided to take a look at the net and see what I could find out about the company. I looked at a few sites about the company, and it still looked like it was a good opportunity. The last site I ended up looking at was this one, and boy was I glad I did. Thanks to this site I have decided to not even get involved in this scam, and cancel my "Interview." I really appreciate the information I receieved from this site, and thank the editor for exposing these scam artists for what they really are.
#111
Consumer Comment
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POSTED: Wednesday, August 25, 2004
On August 24, 2004 my husband and I decided to go to Bedford Christian Church up the street from us to the 7:00 p.m. Tuesday night service.

It was a very small very informal gathering. This man, I believe his name was Brythe, tried approaching me after the service. Not knowing who he was, I had told him prior about my husband having muscular dystrophy, and how difficult it is for him to find a job.

My husband has extremely thin legs, and people can tell the way he walks that there is something wrong. Employers tend to give him the brush off.

Anyway, after church he starts quoting parts of the bible to me, like how the Lord wants us to be fruitful, and how there are so many opportunities for us, and how the Lord wants us to be aware of this, blah blah blah.

He then wants to know if we are available on Saturday, around 10:00 a.m. He tells me he works for this company that helps with budgeting, finances, and retirement. He tells me there is a meeting he would like to see us come to. When he finally told me it was Primemerica, I remembered reading about them on Ripoffreport.com. Its a good thing this website is available. I now know he was a con-artist, and he was actually trying to solicate business at the church, and this was the primary reason why he came.

I will not be attending any "Primerica" meeting. I do not believe this is how the lord wants me to "thrive".
#112
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sheep?

Rich - Tampa (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Thursday, August 26, 2004
listen people...

if you ask any 25yr old what they wish to become by the age of 65, every single one, somewhere in their answer will say they want to be wealthy.... but out of that 100, by the time they're 65, only 1 is wealthy and 4 are financially independent.. so only 5 out of 100 make the grade, why is that?!? WHY?

i know it's easy for some to just shut down at this point and start making excuses... and that's fine, their choice... when i begin something, i do it whole-heartedly, not just stick my toe in it, which it seems most people on this web site have done. they all have this feeling that, "when i start making all this money and start getting all these promotions, i'll see it through"... but that's not how it works... you have to make a total commitment from the start, a TOTAL commitment. or you're already setting yourself up for failure...

to be brief, the reason only 5 make the grade, are because they're the only ones who jumped in, rather than tested the waters. you know they say that the opposite of courage is NOT cowardice, it's conformity... the U.S. was not built to prevent the strong from winning, it was built to prevent the weak from losing... you can lay down on the side of any street and somebody will come by and put food in your mouth.

the problem is that people conform too easily to the 95% who never make the grade... i'll make you a bet,,,,, you take your 5 closest friends and average up their incomes, and i guarantee it's almost exactly what you make/yr...

just remember, they've never erected a statue for a critic, but there have been many statues erected for those who have been criticized.

just keep blending in all your life, 95% of the people do, so it's not that hard. just keep in mind that you'll never have anything more than they have.
#113
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Sheep? - Who Are the Sheep? - ???

Steve - Eagan (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Friday, August 27, 2004
Rich - I would love to see the actual data you have that backs up your claim that 5 out of 100 'make the grade' - and by WHO's definition is this 'grade' based on? Its all rather subjective - wealth and MORE wealth is not the magic 'key to happiness' - there is more to life than just getting rich ... I don't think we need to list the vast number of aspects to a happy life. Should be 'self-evident' to all.

To follow your fuzzy logic, if I were to 'stick to my goals' (and I have) I would NOT switch careers mid-stream - but FORGE ahead and branch out in a career that I went to college for and have been doing for 20 years.

It appears to me that PRIMERICA 'preys' on those who 'out of work' and seeking a new job, even if the people they try to recruit have NOTHING to do with the PRIMERICA 'industry!'
Amazing. Anyway - from the get-go PRIMERICA struck me as 'odd' and rather 'brass' in it's 'method' of recruiting. Not my cup of tea at all - and certainly didn't hold up to any logical position in my definition.

Rich - I'm unclear to WHOM you are 'warning' - you could easily flip your comments to go either way .... 'cryptic at best.'

Anyway, I'm glad PRIMERICA has been exposed for 'what it is" and saving VALUABLE time to do something more rewarding!

And ... can anyone CONFIRM if "Amen" is said in ANY videos or presentations???

PRIMERICA calls anyone who says this a LIAR.

True or False?

Peace,
Steve
#114
Employee
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Solid, Productive Response to Criticism

Dan - Bartlett (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Saturday, August 28, 2004
It is difficult to understand why so many people are so vicious in their criticism of Primerica.

First, there seem to be a lot of individuals who resent that they were contacted and offered an opportunity to make an extra $500 to $1000 per month in their spare time. Why is that? Are they mad because someone offered them a chance to make some money? Many people who do start with the company take immediate advantage of the opportunity -- they come on board, try some of the strategies and they begin making money. Maybe they stick it out -- maybe not, but at least they took a shot. But why are people who haven't even tried it being so critical. Haven't they heard? -- "Don't knock it if you haven't tried it!"

My personal example -- I started with Primerica, got my mortgage certification in the first week and rewrote my mortgage during my first month. I made over $750 in commission for doing so. (And the Primerica SMART Loan is saving me over $100,000 in interest versus my old mortgage!) Oh yeah -- I did pay the $199 to get started with Primerica, but for me, that was paid back 350% on that one transaction!

Anyone else out there make that kind of return on their investments lately?
#115
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Dan, Dan, Dan!

A.S - Claremont (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Monday, August 30, 2004
Dan,

First of all I think you are trying to say you have a 361%+ return.

However, I highly doubt that Primerica is the reason you saved interest on your mortgage. You may have saved interest because your interest rate was lower? This could be do to the fact that the previous mortgage was financed at a time when rates were higher, and/or your credit history improved, and/or any other number of reasons.

Also, I don't think that you "made" $551. I would take a guess that you didn't. Have you look at your paperwork? Was title insurance, notarization, appraisal, etc. free?
#116
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POSTED: Monday, August 30, 2004
Dan,

First of all I think you are trying to say you have a 361%+ return.

However, I highly doubt that Primerica is the reason you saved interest on your mortgage. You may have saved interest because your interest rate was lower?!? Duh! This could be do to the fact that the previous mortgage was financed at a higher rate when rates were higher, and/or your credit history improved, and/or any other number of reasons.

What is so funny is that you think that you "made" $551. I would take a guess that you didn't. Have you look at your paperwork? Was title insurance, notarization, appraisal, etc. free? You are an idiot!
#117
Employee
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Call it "Ball Park" Math

Dan - Bartlett (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Tuesday, August 31, 2004
The point I was trying to make with my previous post is that the Primerica programs DO help families. I was speaking in conservative figures and got called on it!

A.S., you are right -- I was imprecise and understated the return that I realized on my original $199 investment. Instead of a 350% return, it was over 390%, since I actually made over $780 on my mortgage commission.

You also have a valid point about closing costs - there were costs as with most loans. But I had no out-of-pocket at close -- I rolled those costs into the new loan amount. Basically I borrowed $5,000 more to get a new loan that is saving me over $100,000 in interest over the life of the loan. That, too, looked like a good investment for me.

And, yes, part of that $100,000 interest savings is due to the fact that I got a slightly better interest rate than on my original loan. But part of it is also due to other features of the SMART loan. For example, Citibank Mortgage and Primerica encourage people to get out of debt, so they gave me an additional interest rate reduction when I signed up for an accelerated payment plan. Imagine that -- a program that gives me a rate reduction to encourage me to pay them less!

And because of the way the principle accrues with this loan, I am building equity in my home a lot faster than I was under a conventional home loan. (I could show you precise math on this topic, but that would take amortization schedules and math examples that are too lengthy to display here on this message board!)

So, A.S., you can go ahead and call me "an idiot" for understating the positive financial impact that Primerica made for me, but I won't take it as an insult coming from you, since I'm the one who's richer by about $96,000!

The neat thing about this math is that other families can have these numbers work for them just like they did for me. That's what I try to do for families. When's the last time that your current mortgage banker sent someone to your home to show you how to pay them $100,000 less??
#118
Consumer Comment
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POSTED: Tuesday, August 31, 2004
It said that the "average" sucker thats been "conned" into this scam, is working sixty hours a week, puting in evenings and Saturdays, making an average of $15,000 per year, which equates to $5 per hour.

I'll keep my day job.

I think you're better off doing the same.

If you want to know the truth about this "SCAM" check out this:

SOME STATE INSURANCE REGULATIONS

A fact that is commonly known in the Insurance and Financial Services Industry among the professional, properly educated, well informed, highly ethical and, honest insurance agents who conduct themselves within industry Regulator's rules and codes is the fact that most representatives of the Primerica Sales Force have either been directly or indirectly trained by their supervisors to either knowingly, or unknowingly misrepresent themselves to the public, as well as, misrepresent to the public the detailed mechanics of the insurance and financial services products they sell and/or market on behalf of the Primerica Insurance Company.

Those consumers that have been victimized by an agent from the Primerica Sales Division that either presently or in the past that have experienced the adverse effects of those verbal indecencies orchestrated to entice the public to engage into a business relationship with Primerica through the company's sales division, are now seeking help from State Insurance Departments, the Legal Community, and/or on the Internet where consumers can locate web-sites such as this web-site to seek the answers they are looking in an attempt to become whole again,

Setting aside the outrageous premium charges and the extremely high administration acquisition costs Primerica loads their insurance and financial products with at the expense of the consumer, my concern with the company's agents to begin with is the inducements the agent's orchestrate to either sell, market, recruit new agents for the company, sell Mutual Funds, arrange for refinancing of existing home mortgages, and their convincing of consumers to replace the consumer's in-force existing life insurance in favor of a temporary term life insurance policy the organization sells and markets.

The sales organization's strategy technique is simply to use false, misleading and deceptive spoken words, as well as, the withholding certain pertinent information which would of course afford a consumer the opportunity to arrive at more qualified decision if the consumer did in fact want to consider using the facilities of the Primerica Insurance Company or not.

I am going to walk you through quite a few of their false, misleading and deceptive sales and marketing orchestrations. Then, you as a consumer will then be alerted to be on the lookout for these intentional misrepresentations the company's agents are trained in the use of and be more prepared to deal with them.

I have formatted this section of my web-site to parrot their orchestrated misrepresentations for the purpose of informing a consumer what you can expect to hear from a Primerica Sales Division's agent in the agent's quest to entice a consumer into engaging into some form of business relationship with Primerica through the Primerica Sales Division.

As I alert you as to what you can expect to hear from the agent, I will then enlighten you to certain facts surrounding the false inducement statement you heard spoken to you by the agent.

THEIR TELEPHONE SOLICITATION WANTING TO INTERVIEW YOU FOR A POSITION WITH THE ORGANIZATION.

Most of the recruiters at the Primerica Sales Division who are seeking to put bodies to work for their sales division and in doing so the recruiter will climb the ladder in the Multi-Level Pyramid scheme of the company's Sales Division will use false, misleading and deceptive recruiting techniques as inducements to lure and entice consumers to engage into a working arrangement with the company's sales division.

Recruiting new bodies, which will require a joining fee payment of $199 to the company, is of a prime concern to the company and the recruiters.

If you are seeking a change in your profession or even possibly if you have lost your job and posted your resume to Monster.com on the internet, a fact of life is you can expect to hear the false, misleading and deceptive recruiting techniques used as an inducement to get you to join the company's Sales Division. Even if possibly you have taken out an advertisement in the jobs wanted section of your local newspaper, most likely you can expect to receive a telephone call totally misleading you as to who the caller represents, the position you will be offered at an interview, and the type of work you will be engaged in.

On the message board I also the sponsor, dozens of times and time again it has been reported by those persons who have let it be known that they are seeking a job, the initial solicitation contact by the Primerica Sales Division's recruiter with them was in words and/or a combination of words as to the happenings that transpired very similar to what you are about to read.

Please first understand that their “pitch” is to entice you to attend what they commonly refer to as their “Opportunity Meeting”. They are trained not to inform you as to what exactly the job description entails.

“Hello Mr./Ms John Q. Public. My name is (they state their name). I am a recruiting specialist for Citicorp. We are opening up branch offices in your area and we are looking for qualified managers to run them”.

“I am conducting interviews at (location of the “Opportunity Meeting”) for office managerial positions and I would like to interview you”.

Please note the following. You will not be interviewed for a “manager position, to the contrary they are looking for bodies to start to work as an insurance agent at the bottom of the Primerica Sales Division's pyramid.

Next thing to note is, unlike hundreds of insurance companies, at Primerica there is no such thing as a salary while you will be in training. It is a commissioned only insurance agent position being made available to you and to boot, you must pay out of your own pocket all of the costs incurred in doing business.

Most of the State's Insurance Departments require an insurance agent soliciting insurance related items must identify themselves as just that, an insurance agent.

Please also note that the recruiter falsely led you to believe he or she is soliciting on behalf of Citicorp when in fact the recruiter is soliciting on behalf of the Primerica Sales Division.

If you happen to attempt to zero in on what type of service the office you will allegedly be the manager of will be performing, you can expect to discover the recruiter will be very evasive in their answer to you steering you back to the alleged “Opportunity Meeting” attempting to induce you to attend it at which time they will go into more detail with you. The purpose of their solicitation is simply to keep you guessing until you agree that you will be attending their “flopportunity meeting”.

You need a job, the offers have been scarce and out of curiosity you don't want to pass up something that you hardly know anything about to begin with.

THE OPPORTUNITY MEETING ITSELF

At the "Opportunity Meeting" you can expect to find a group of people in the same posture that you are in. These attendees to the meeting are seeking income to support themselves and/or their families.

You most likely will be witness to one or more speakers addressing the attendees with all kinds of "fairy tales" as to:

Income, purpose of the Sales Organization including dialog stating that insurance companies and agents who market cash value life insurance is are "ripping the public off", you will shown a bevy of articles appearing in newspapers, magazines an other media written by authors who have absolutely no credentials of advanced studies of insurance either, just as the speakers do not have credits under their belt of attending and passing insurance industry sponsored classroom advanced study courses in the subject matter.

THE HARD CORE FACT PERTAINS TO THE AVERAGE INCOME POTENTIAL AVAILABLE TO YOU AT PRIMERICA.

Only 1.5% of the entire 90,000 strong field force in the Primerica sales division earns that exaggerated six-figure income you will hear them carrot dangle at you as an inducement to join the company's sales organization.

"The average" (average being the worst of the best, and the best of the worst) income is less than $15,000 a year. An average work week at the Primerica Sales Division week includes Saturdays and evenings. This would equate to an approximate sixty-hour workweek for an approximate $300 per week which further equates to a paltry $5.00 per hour if you are an average Primerica agent. I tend to believe that you will agree with me that quite naturally an average paycheck of $5.00 an hour with you having to pay for all of your own expenses that go along with being an insurance agent is a far cry from the false, misleading and deceptive carrot dangling inducement the speaker orchestrated to you as an inducement to pay a fee of $199 and join the organization.

Contrary to the rhetoric you may be witness to as to the "purpose" of the organization, the basic purpose of the organization is to market and sell to consumers temporary term life insurance together with recruiting other consumers to join their Multi Level Marketing and Pyramid sales organization. It has been said that the Primerica Sales Organization is the "Amway of the insurance industry".

Although you may have be inundated with material exhibits and rhetoric of how agents and insurance companies have been "ripping the public off" for years through the sale of Whole Life Insurance which is commonly known as "cash value life insurance" and subsequently you are being falsely led to believe through their spoken rhetoric that the Cash Value Life Insurance product is not in the best interest of consumer, therefore Primerica will not even carry the product in the company's life insurance portfolio, such a statement is false, misleading and deceptive and used to encourage the agents of the company to sell temporary term life insurance only. You can find an exhibit copy of an issued Primerica Whole Life Cash Value Life Insurance policy on this web-site included as a special link.

You may even hear references to the Primerica organization being a "Christian" organization; you will be building your own business; you will be an Independent Insurance Agent; you will own your own business; and you will own your own customers (clientele) who you introduced to the company who purchased one of the company's insurance and/or financial products.

You will hear dialog to impress you about Citicorp a company who although affiliated with Primerica is not the company a recruiter has had you attend the meeting for an attendee will be associating with.

You will be listening to a recruiting carnival type of pitch how just in a short period of time you most likely will be earning a "six-figure" income.

You will be hearing words or combinations of words falsely leading you to believe that you will be on a crusade to "do what is right for Middle America".

You will be hearing rhetoric surrounding "how their company is allegedly attempting to help Americans get out of debt".

Along with the alleged debt rhetoric you will be shown charts and hear testimonials from their own people who will be part of the alleged "opportunity" program in the form of a speaker who will pass on to you some kind of a "bleeding heart story" how he or she has helped so many consumers get out of debt.

You may even be witness to an attack directed at insurance companies and banks. These attacks are intended to lead you to believe that Primerica and Primerica's affiliate companies are the only good guys in town.

You will most likely hear exaggerated rhetoric as to how fast the company is allegedly growing and now is the time to join the organization before the company puts a restrainer on how many people they can use as an associate to the company.

Before this chapter of my web-site turns into a novel which by the way since there is so much material available to expose their additional similar false, misleading and deceptive statements, I will stop right here until sometime in the near future when I plan to add additional information as to their same type of highly questionable business practices used by the organization to hoodwink the public.

Wouldn't you agree with my following observation? If the Primerica Sales Division is such a great place for you to find your niche, then why do their recruiters have to go to so much extreme to get you to the alleged "opportunity" meeting in the first place? Seems to me the public would be standing in line, holding tickets with numbers on the ticket to get into the door if the alleged "opportunity" was truly there for consumers as the Primerica hucksters orchestrate and contend that it is.

AS TO ALLEGEDLY BEING A "CHRISTIAN" ORGANIZATION

That claim is as bogus as a three-dollar bill. Obviously the statement is orchestrated to reach God Loving attendees at the meeting who believe if the organization is comprised of God Loving Christians only, then the organization is walking behind a cross on a mission from God.

The truth of the matter is, the organization is comprised of not only whose religious preference is Christianity, but also those people whose religious preference is non-Christian. Sanford Weill founded the Primerica Insurance company. Sanford Weill was not only the owner of Primerica but also the CEO of Primerica. Sanford while is just one of the non Christian religious preference higher ups in the organization whose Rabbis would be much surprised to learn that Sanford Weill and those many other higher ups have converted to Christianity if you understand and recognize what I am saying.

AS TO OWNING AND BUILDING YOUR OWN BUSINESS AND HE CLIENTELE WHO YOU WILL BE REQUIRED TO SOLICIT ON BEHALF OF THE COMPANY AND BEING AN INDEPENDENT INSURANCE AGENT

If a consumer is considering building, owning their own business, and owning their clientele they will be soliciting on behalf of Primerica, if that is the inducement that enticed the consumer to associate with the organization, I would strongly suggest to the consumer they READ THEIR APPOINTMENT CONTRACT TO REPRESENT THE COMPANY. IF THE CONSUMER IS UNCLEAR AS TO THE TERMS AND CONSIDERATION OUTLINED IN THE APPOINTMENT, THEN TAKE A COPY OF THE APPOINTMENT AGREEMENT TO AN ATTORNEY TO INTERPRET IN COMMON PLACE LANGUAGE WHAT THE CONSUMER WILL BE GETTING THEMSELVES INTO.

In words or combinations of words the consumer will discover that Primerica owns the clientele and the business the consumer has been misled into believing that the consumer will own. The consumer will also discover that either party to the appointment agreement can cancel the appointment agreement at any time without cause.

The appointment agreement specifically outlines that if either party cancel the appointment agreement the business the agent has built to date and the clientele the agent has solicited on behalf of the company reverts back to the company and not the agent. Furthermore, the appointment agreement further stipulates that the agent may not return to the clients the agent had developed for the company for a specified period of years to either sell life additional life insurance or replace existing in-force life insurance.

In addition to the above, the appointment agreement restricts the associate to only offering insurance products and financial services made available by the Primerica Company or an affiliate of the company.

Drop into any Independent Agents office and ask the agent how many insurance companies the agent represents. You will discover that the agent being a true "Independent Contractor" by appointment agreement can represent as many companies as the agent wants to.

You next step is to ask the truly Independent Agent if for some reason he severs his appointment agreement with one of his companies is the agent free to replace his client's insurance and move it to a different company.

You will discover a true Independent Contractor Agent is free to do so, and in addition if the agent can find a better priced insurance policy for his client even when the appointment is in force with the insuring company, the true Independent Agent is free to change his client to a different insurer he may also have acquired an appointment with.

AS TO THE EARNING OF A SIX-FIGURE INCOME FALSE INDUCEMENT PITCH

Although there is an extremely chance of earning a six-figure income after many years with the Pnmerica Sales Division, there is a next to zero change of earning six-figures within your first few years.

In addition to that, the six figure income they carrot dangle a prospective recruit about is a "Gross" figure, not a "Net" earnings figure after expenses attributed to the cost of doing business is subtracted from that figure. A more accurate figure would be in the vicinity of sixty thousand dollars a year after your routine expenses are deducted of being a "six-figure" income earner at the Primerica Sales Division.

Here are the facts as to your percentage chances of earning a "Gross" six-figure income as an agent of the Primerica Sales Division. Rick Williams the new CEO of Primerica announced from the stage in Atlanta, Georgia in the summer of May 2001, that the sales organization had 1,210 six-figure "Gross" income earners the previous year. In the same speech to the attendees and the Primerica Sales Division he stated the Primerica Sales Division had grown to a field-force of 90,000 agents.

Therefore, it doesn't take an Albert Einstein to figure our by dividing 1,200 by the remaining 88,800 agents what percentage of the Primerica Sales Division had earned the "Gross" six-figure income. My calculator came up with only a 1.35% of the total Primerica Sales Division earns the six-figure income they so readily talk about in their quest to induce consumers to join the Primerica Sales Division.

A sports minded child just graduating high school facing college for the next four years has a better chance of making a pro football team then a consumer's chance in earning that six-figure "Gross" income through the Primerica Sales Division.

AS TO A CONSUMER EVEN EARNING A LIVING AT THE PRIMERICA SALES DIVISION

At that same Atlanta, Georgia convention, the same Rick Williams CEO Primerica announced that between the year of 1999 and 2000, there had been 90,000 new recruits join Primerica. During the same speech Rick Williams mentioned that the sales division was presently 85,000 strong. Knowing that the year prior to that Primerica boasted of having a 90,000 strong field force, those figures should have equated to a total of 180,000 present and new associates, but Rick Williams admitting to 85,000. Well, put a pencil and paper to those figures and one may find in the truth that 95,0000 walked out of the Primerica Sales Division between 1999 and the year 2000 consisting of a figure of the total previous year's recruits plus 5,000 of the Sales Division's Verterans serving one-year or longer with the organization.

Now let's apply some common sense to Primerica's own admitted figures. Since 95.000 agents walked out of the Primerica Sales Division between 1999 and the year 2000 it must be that these agents were neither earning the money that they were led to believe they would and to boot, were not even earning a livable income at the Primerica Sales Division. People just don't walk away from six-figure incomes or even forty to ninety thousand dollar a years incomes unless they found a job they could earn more income hence the $15,000 a year average income then what they were presently earning.

The fact of the matter is, the average "Gross" income (average being defined as the best of the worst and the worst of the best) for agents at the Primerica Sales Division is $15,000 a year or less about.

AS TO THE PRIMERICA SALES DIVISION HELPING PEOPLE TO ALLEGEDLY GET OUT OF DEBT AND THE MORTGAGE REFINANCING PITCH.

You have heard about firms specializing in helping consumers to get out of debt by first suggesting to their clients the first thing they want to do is tear up your credit cards. Such a recommendation is rarely heard from an agent of the Primerica Sales Division.

To the contrary, a Primerica agent is trained to suggest to consumers that they obtain a new credit card from City Bank at allegedly a lower rate of interest then what the consumer is paying in interest to their credit card company.

The agent trained to orchestrate existing interest rates between 18%-21% as the going rate of interest tells a consumer that with a Citibank credit card the consumer ill be provided with a interest rate of approximately one-half of their existing credit card interest rate which by the way is usually 2% higher than the new interest rates with most credit cards companies.

Of course, to obtain one of those Citibank credit cards, there is a provision that accompanies owning one, so they say.

While legitimate companies in the business of helping consumers "get out of debt" for a very reasonable small fee will negotiate on behalf of their consumer with their client's debtors for a reduction in the minimum monthly payment on the credit card thus reducing their client's monthly out of pocket outlay, the Primerica Sales Division's agents are trained in a classroom setting to entice a consumer to RE-FINANCE their existing mortgages so the consumer can remove equity the consumer owns in their property using their equity to pay off the consumers outstanding debt. Then the consumer will be given that alleged low interest rate special Citibank credit card I made mention to above.

As part of the "come on", in that same classroom setting the Primerica agents are trained to anger consumers by orchestrating that for many years the Banks have been allegedly "ripping the public off" in getting consumers to get into debt with high interest rates when in fact, it is the presentation the agent has been trained to orchestrate in itself is the prelude for the agent at the Primerica Sales Division to "rip-off" the consumer with a high rate of interest charge to re-finance a consumers existing mortgage.

Someone once said, "All that glitters is not gold". Nothing can better describe that statement when applied to the re-financing of an existing mortgage through an agent of the Primerica Sales Division and the following is the reason.

In the Primerica Sales Divisions agent's classroom setting trained "canned sales presentation", in conjunction to support the agent's rhetoric pertaining to allegedly banks "ripping off the public", the agent is trained to stray away from routine monthly mortgage payments in favor of paying one-have of a routine monthly mortgage payment EVERY TWO WEEKS.

A "every two week payment of one-half of a routine monthly mortgage payment equates to over funding the mortgage yearly payment accumulation by an extra monthly routine monthly payment each year.

Example… Assuming a $1,000 per month Principle and Interest only mortgage payment times twelve months, the figure equates to $12,000 each year. Using one-half of that payment every two weeks equates to 26 payments at $500 that equates to $13,000 each year.

Then we must ask ourselves, "what happens with the extra $30,000 (30 years times $1,000) that the homeowner has over funded his mortgage payments?"

In that same classroom setting, the Primerica Sales Division agent is trained to orchestrate the following two alternatives. Some of the agents suggest to their intended victim to use that over funded mortgage payment money to purchase a Mutual Fund from a subsidiary Stock Brokerage House of Citicorp known as Solomon Barney. If the agent suggest this route, the agent will orchestrate to his intended victim a gossamer hypotheses of allegedly earning 12% on that money in a Mutual Fund which in turn will pay a new refinanced mortgage off allegedly ten-years sooner in not thirty, but twenty years thus reducing the intended victim's obligatory remaining years of mortgage payments which in turn is saving the intended victim ten years of interest payments on the mortgage.

The other alternative recommendation "canned sales pitch" the agent is trained in the use of in that same classroom setting to orchestrate is, the suggestion that the intended victim use part of the over funding of the mortgage payments to purchase a temporary term life insurance policy in the amount of the new refinanced mortgage thus affording the intended victim's beneficiary insurance company money to pay the mortgage off in the event of the intended victim's death prior to the whole mortgage being paid off and then taking the balance of the over funding money accumulated and investing that smaller portion into a Mutual Fund.

Most mortgages today do not have what is known as a "Prepayment Penalty Clause". A prepayment penalty clause is a clause in a mortgage contract (usually inserted in small print) that stipulates that if a mortgage contract is paid off early, there will be a monitory penalty paid in the form of a fine assessed to the owner of the home for paying the mortgage note off early. The mortgage refinancing arrangement notes made available to the public by the agents of the Primerica Sales Division has contained within the mortgage note such a penalty clause.

Some intended victims of the agents mortgage refinancing "sales pitch" have a lot on the ball and will pick up on the one to two percent higher rate of interest the agent will quote and ask, "Why is the interest rate you are charging for your company's refinancing program higher than most other lending institutions. Reportedly when caught in their ploy, the agent has been trained in his classroom setting to respond to the client's question in the following manner. "Why should you care, our company is going to arrange for your mortgage payment obligation to retire your mortgage earlier then what it will keeping you existing mortgage".

The intended victim should definitely care about the rate of interest, because the lower the interest rate more of the payment will be applied to the principle and less money will be applied to the interest of each payment sent to the lending institution.

In addition to the above, the interest rate assessed to an intended victim by an agent of the Primerica Sales Division is usually 1% to 2% higher then the going rate at other lending institutions. Therefore I must ask, who do you think is "ripping off consumers", the Banks as orchestrated by the agent, or the agent of the Primerica Sales Division? Who do you tend to believe is "doing what is right for consumer's", the Banks and mortgage lending institutions or the Primerica Sales Division in those instances in the refinancing of existing mortgages?

The motive of the agent to sell mortgage refinancing is "GREED", as well as, "GREED" in the sale of the other products that go along with the refinancing an existing mortgage. Not only will the agent earn commissions generated from the re-financing sale of an existing mortgage; the agent will earn a commission generated by the sale of a temporary term life insurance policy, and the sale of Mutual Funds. In addition, all of the up-line supervisors of the agent will receive an over ride commission also.

On the other side of the coin, now let's look at different alternative solutions in refinancing an existing mortgage for the purpose of consolidating debt through an alternative mortgage lending institution.

Most mortgage lending institutions have also adopted the twenty-six-payment plan per year at one-half of a monthly mortgage payment. One of these mortgage-lending institutions is the Homeside Mortgage Company of Jackson, Florida. If you plan to simply pay your home off earlier than originally planned there is a one-time $300 assessment for processing the paperwork.

If you plan to refinance an existing mortgage through an agent from the Primerica Sales Division's mortgage lending outlet, you are going to discover that you are going to have to entertain a closing costs in excess of $3,000.

One of the basics I want to bring to our viewers attention is, when you deal directly with a mortgage lending institution, the surplus funds you are paying into the mortgage company each year are applied to the Principle balance owed directly by the mortgage company with no whistles or bells, and no chance of loosing your extra over funding as you have when you purchase a Mutual Fund through the Primerica Agent.

As to the temporary term life insurance the Primerica agent will offer you, you are going to pay approximately 50% more in the cost of premium for Primerica's mortgage cancellation life insurance then if you had shopped for the life insurance protection elsewhere.

Another aspect you definitely need to consider is, because of the higher interest rate assessed to the mortgage obtained through the Primerica Sales Division agent, quite naturally you will be required to pay that premium longer until the day the mortgage is cancelled because the funding amount of overage will be eaten up faster than if you had not purchased the life insurance from the agent.

In general, (a), you most can likely secure a lower refinancing rate through your existing mortgage lender without high closing costs assessed to you without a prepayment penalty clause assessed to the refinancing note. (b), if your mortgage lender does not have the 26-payment plan equal to one-half of your scheduled mortgage payment, then there are other mortgage lenders who will provide you with a 26-payment arrangement for lower closing costs than Primerica's agent will offer you at a reduced interest rate in the vicinity of one to two percent less than the interest rate the Primerica agent will offer you.

If you elect to re-finance your existing mortgage attaching a mortgage cancellation life insurance policy paid out of the over funding of your mortgage payments, (a), you will find a insurance company whose premium rate for the same policy is approximately 50% less than what the Primerica agent will have to charge you, and (b), in doing so, this would pay the mortgage off at an earlier date than the anticipated date of the payoff date that the Primerica agent can estimate to you, that is, provided the Primerica agent is not once again lying to you.

My main concern in the mortgage refinancing program offered to the public by the Primerica Sales Division is, because a home is considered an "investment" and because a home will most likely be the largest single investment a consumer will make in their lifetime, agents at the Primerica Sales Division are knowingly and intentionally trained in a classroom setting my their up-line managers to use false, misleading and deceptive "canned sales tracks" as inducements for consumers to engage in a business relationship through Primerica agents in the Division's quest to bilk the public out of their hard earned money that is directed towards the largest single investment the consumer will most likely ever make in the consumer's lifetime.

AS TO THE MUTUAL FUND SALES OF THE PRIMERICA AGENTS

The outlet for the sales of Mutual Funds by agents of the Primerica Sales Division is usually through the brokerage of Solomon Barney. Solomon Barney is also part of the Primerica/Citicorp conglomerate. Because of the structure of the Multi-Level Marketing and Pyramid makeup of the sales organization, there are many fingers in the pot sharing in the commission structure if a consumer purchases a Solomon Barney sponsored Mutual Fund.

Therefore, in order to "wet the beak" so to say of all of the persons who share in the commission pot, there are high assessments attached to purchasing a Solomon Barney sponsored Mutual Fund from a Primerica agent. These assessments are sometimes referred to as "acquisition costs" and/or administration charges.

A consumer considering purchasing one of the Solomon Barney Mutual Funds would be better served dealing directly with a stock broker because there are not so many fingers in the pot to share commissions which follows then that the administrative and acquisition costs passed on to the consumer will be less thus affording the consumer more of the purchasing payments going directly into the fund itself.

My concern in the selling and marketing of Mutual Funds by the majority of agents of the Primerica Sales Division is, (a) reportedly the majority of non-security licensed Primerica agents are orchestrating exaggerated interest rate investment earnings returns on these various Funds. The greater majority of the Primerica Sales Division's agents are not licensed and/or registered with the National Association of Security Dealers to sell and market Mutual Funds, but never the less in violation of NASD rules they talk up buying a Mutual Fund through them, and (b), these same non-licensed/non-registered agents are not complying with Mutual Fund Prospectus guidelines and regulations.

Reportedly in these same classroom settings, the managers who usually are properly licensed and registered are encouraging the agents to talk up Mutual Funds when these agents are out in the field soliciting business.

AS TO THE PRIMERICA AGENT'S ACTIVITIES IN THE REPLACEMENT OF CONSUMER'S EXISTING LIFE INSURANCE POLICIES

As I have previously outlined to the viewers of this investigative report you are presently involved in reading, the core of the whole Primerica Insurance Company's Multi-Level Marketing and Pyramid operation is the company sells and markets only one form of life insurance. That one form of life insurance is "Temporary Term Life Insurance".

As I have illustrated in this investigative report you are presently reading, unlike most all of the other approximate 1,799 life insurance companies who make ALL FORMS of life insurance available to the public so those company's agents can fit the right type of policy to fit each consumer's personal and individual needs for life insurance to begin with, as part of the Primerica marketing strategy the company's sales division had to devise a scheme to make their overpriced term life insurance not only attractive to the public due to the overpricing of the company's one type of life insurance they market, but it was imperative also to devise a scheme to make that one and only type of life insurance desirable to the public.

Knowing that most of the American public presently owned permanent life insurance to fund permanent insurance needs and temporary term life insurance to fit temporary needs such as when children were growing up and/or say to cancel temporary debts such as a mortgage, a scheme was devised to convince consumers using almost any means even if it meant using false, misleading and deceptive statements and inducements to cancel the consumer's existing in-force permanent life insurance in favor of purchase the temporary term life insurance policy the company was making available to the public.

Quite naturally, because temporary term life insurance expired when the incidents of death were the largest and the company would have to satisfy a claim with company funds, and because temporary term life insurance did not build up any reserves in the form of cash values such as a automobile or a homeowners insurance policy where a consumer is paying for insurance protection only, the premium charges would be less.

Since the premium charges would be less, the agent could then contend that a consumer should purchase temporary term life insurance even if the policy did not cover permanent insurance needs and because of the difference in premium charges the consumer could invest that money and allegedly have accumulated more money then the consumer would have available to the consumer in cash then a permanent cash value policy would have accumulated.

In other words, what the Primerica agents are trained to orchestrate is, buy your life insurance protection from us and invest the reduced premium outlay in a pure money accumulation account, then when the temporary term life insurance expires, YOU SHOULD SELF-INSURE WITH YOUR OWN INVESTMENT ACCUMULATIONS THUS LETTING OUR INSURANCE COMPANY OFF THE HOOK FROM HAVING TO PAY YOUR BENEFICIARY INSURANCE COMPANY DOLLARS AND ALL REMAINING DEBTS AND NEED FOR ADDITIONAL INCOME TO YOUR BENEFICIARY WHEN YOU DIE SHOULD BECOME THE BURDEN OF YOUR BENEFICIARY FROM YOUR OWN MONEY THAT YOU HAD ACCUMULATED OVER THE YEARS INVESTING THE DIFFERENCE IN THE PREMIUM CHARGES.

That certainly sounds like a "good deal" for the insurance company and not such a "good deal" for the consumer and the consumer's beneficiary doesn't it?

AND THAT'S WHAT A PRIMERICA AGENT REFERS TO AS "DOING WHAT IS RIGHT FOR THE AMERICAN PUBLIC"?

Now to add insult to injury, if at the time of the replacement of the cash value policy there is a substantial accumulation of cash values, in that same classroom setting the Primerica agents are trained to entice the consumer into buying an investment product such as a Primerica Annuity or a Mutual Fund through Solomon Barney with the cash values the consumer recouped from the surrender of the consumer's former permanent life insurance policy.

Talk about scamming a consumer to line their own personal pockets, not only does the agent generate a new commission for himself and override commissions for his or her up-line manager from the funds that belonged to the consumer which were released from the cash surrender of the existing in-force permanent life insurance policy, the agents earn an additional commission from the sale of an annuity or a mutual fund.

Why didn't the agent simply tell the consumer to either pay off interest charging debts or put that cash in a pure investment product in lieu of skimming commissions off of that money?

In fact, there are many participating cash value permanent life insurance policies (dividend paying) where in the event of the insured owner's death, not only would the insurance company pay with insurance company funds the face amount of the life insurance protection regardless of how long the insured lived, but the company would also return to the beneficiary all of the funds that had accumulated to date in the policy itself. I know of no life insurance policy that Primerica offers to the public that can match that.

In addition there are many cash value dividend paying life insurance policies that after a period of time as an example ten or twelve years of premium payments, the dividend account not including the cash value accumulation account will be so large, that although the premiums are on-going for the policy, the consumer does not have to pay those premiums out of their own pocket, because the dividends are great enough to pay the premiums for the policy until the insured's death.

I know of no Primerica Life Insurance policy that can duplicate that feat, and to boot, when a participating life insurance policy meets that period in say ten or twelve years when the insured can stop paying premiums out of their own pocket, that poor victim of the Primerica Agent's scam still must continue paying out of their own pocket the premium charges for the balance of the temporary term period.

The bottom line is, in those instances that participating cash value life insurance was replaced, in as much as, being that Primerica agents are improperly trained in their classroom setting and uniformed as to the mechanics of life insurance (a "Dork" as I affectionately like to refer to them) a "Dork" with the Primerica Sales Division using false, misleading and deceptive REPLACEMENT OF EXISTING LIFE INSURANCE POLICIES. EITHER KNOWINGLY OR UNKNOWINGLY RUINED A CONSUMER'S FINANCIAL GOAL THE CONSUMER HAD INTENDED TO REACH THROUGH HIS EXISTING IN-FORCE POLICY AND INADVERTENTLY THE AGENT SCAMMED THE CONSUMER SIMPLY TO EARN A COMMISSION FOR HIMSELF AND AN OVERRIDE COMMISSION FOR HIS UP-LINE MANAGEMENT TEAM MEMBERS.

Although there are quite a few other intended false, misleading and deceptive business practices inducements commonly orchestrated by the agents of the Primerica Sales Division, I have covered what I believe to be the most flagrant and damaging of these misrepresentations to consumer's financial welfare.
#119
Consumer Comment
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POSTED: Tuesday, August 31, 2004
I was in the life insurance business for years and am now retired from it. I brokered many A+ and A++ insurance companies and I specialized in many different term life insurance products. Occasionally I still hear about people being recruited by a Primerica representative. I just did and I still cringe!

In life it is not a perfect sales world and many people are being exploited in both representing a company they sell for or by buying a companies products.

In my many years in the industry I replaced many inferior Primericas term policies with better term policies from the other highly rated insurance carriers. I will save the term policy comparisons for another time. My clients are the ones who told me about their Primerica recruitment experiences and problems with their mortgage, insurance, and investment products.

Ok here we go.... The bottom line in sales is that you cannot sell any type of products from any company if you don't have good sales leads. If you can't get in front of someone to pitch your product to him or her you can't make any commission or money.

Primerica takes this to a new art form and they have for years since their inception under a different company name many years ago.

What better way to tell someone they can make extra money to start, then by telling them we will help you to get started and all you need to do is give us a few names of some family or friends so we can help you help these people with what we do with our various great products and big company affiliations.

WOW! Free leads. Ok folks guess what….once they go thru all your leads, which happen to be the easiest leads a salesperson could have....then what do you do to continue making steady commission or money? Not too much….. more about this to follow.

In the mean time all the people above you in this organization make good money from your sales and you make a little bit of money under their reduced commission structure for new salespeople. And as far as your friends and family go they love and trust you and want to help you in your new endeavor. They are also most likely not prepared to do any comparison-shopping at the time they are approached by you and your new business associates.

Suckers!!!!

Now to be very fair to Primerica many types of companies in many industries do this to their new people. But Primerica has it down to a science. They are brilliant!

Hey Primerica people…. life is not about making some money or a lot of money! And all of you that work for them that do well always seem find ways to justify your commissions and the selling of substandard non-competitive consumer products.

As far as your new Primerica recruits go...It takes money to make money, and after you run out of friends and family you will need to spend good money on some type of advertising in order to keep getting new good sales leads and to continue making commissions. Striking up conversations while standing in a line some ware, or social networking won't cut for the majority of any salespersons in any field. Also relying on other idiots under you to make money off of is also another disaster waiting to happen. Thus most people clunk out of their new carrier after six months to a year and only a few sharks and or ignorant dummies make it to the top. But Primerica in the mean time has made money off everybody during his or her short-lived endeavor.

Suckers again !!!!

Oh…. by the way I would be happy to debate any of you Primerica hotshots that want to take me on! Your warped justifications of how you are out to save the world while everyone else is ripping the world off doesn't cut it with me nor anyone that has half a brain. You folks have always taken exploitation to a very high level. But the Primerica empire was not built by industry experts, it was built by the greed and or ignorance of good people just trying to make a little bit of extra money.
#120
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Ruth from Bedford, OH sounds high on cocaine...

Ruth - Washington, DC (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Wednesday, September 01, 2004
It took you all those pages to say what? Can you summarize it so we can understand all that... ?

It appears that you attempted to use every English word possible in each of your sentences. In the end, you made very little sense, if any at all.

You should be preparing PR material for Primerica so both of you can satisfy their respective egos with meaningless communication.
#121
Consumer Comment
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POSTED: Wednesday, September 01, 2004
Dan,

You keep going on about the $100,000 in interest that you saved with your new loan, so why don't you go ahead and tell me what the interest rate is and what the term is? And how about this accelerated payment plan they gave you? How much did it cost you to sign up for the privelege of making a payment every two weeks instead of once a month? You can do that for free, you know.

Either you have no idea about the time value of money - the most BASIC concept a financial planner needs to know - or you think that nobody here knows about TVM. Your $100,000 saved is a B.S. number. What is the present value of your mortgage payments? Use a discount rate of 3%, since that is a good approximation for inflation. After you calculate that number (if you can), then calculate the present value for the same amount of money borrowed at the market interest rate right now and you will find that it is LOWER and therefore Primerica's loan is MORE expensive.

After you have gone through this exercise you will have to make a judgement call: Did Primerica dupe you into paying more money for a loan than you would have elsewhere, or did you know all of this already and you are intentionally giving your clients a more expensive product?

Am I right or wrong, Dan? Show me your interest rate and loan term. Don't worry about amortization schedules, I have the ability to reproduce them. I will even help you with TVM if you need it.
#122
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Dan!

A.S - Claremont (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Wednesday, September 01, 2004
First, the word "principal" in regards to your post is spelled with "al" at the end, not "le". “Principle” means a fundamental truth or law. (It is a bit of a pet peeve of mine.) I would think that you would know this since you received a mortgage certification!

Second, I don't get the return of $780 when you incurred $5k in expenses, rolled or not. ($5,000 seems a bit high as well.)

Third, do you know what leverage is? Simply, it is a business tactic where you take debt at a low rate and invest/save at a higher rate. Leverage requires NOT paying off your house. Why do you think Microsoft or Donald Trump have debt? They are using it to leverage. They realize that they have fixed their debt at historically low rates and that when rates go up, which they have, and the economy improves they will be making a higher percentage return than paying in interest. That "spread" is profit to them. They can also use the money that they are not using paying off the debt early to reinvest into their business. So, if you want to “accelerate” the pay off your mortgage. Go ahead; I wouldn't, in this environment. You have to understand rate and time, not total interest paid. I, too, could go on for awhile about the ramifications and impact of paying off a mortgage, but I assume Primerica “taught” you this. Remember, mortgage loans are not like credit card debt!

My mortgage broker gets me the best rate possible and explains that best way to go about things. He also does not charge any fees since he is trying to acquire market share and the lender pays him directly. Primerica isn't any more "special" than any other loans out their. Ever day you can hear people on TV or the radio telling people to refinance to improve monthly cash flow and/or decrease interest. Have you been hiding under a rock? I have an associate that has some of the best federally funded programs out there that most people do not have access to because his firm is so old.

I am a CFP and have worked with hundreds of families and businesses with debt management. So, yes, there are people out there fully aware of something called “personal finance” that helps people make good decisions. We could compare backgrounds and you will find that I probably have a bit more experience in personal finance than all of the people you know at Primerica.

I called you an idiot because you keep saying Primerica did this for you. If you knew what you were doing and shopped around, I am sure that you could have done even better than Primerica. Mortgage loans are a commodity right now.

I also said you were an idiot because you didn't “make” anything. How is business going for you? You don't seem to mention making thousands of dollars off of other peoples mortgages?

I actually feel bad for you. You don't understand what is happening around you and have been brainwashed to think Primerica is the only way that people are assisted with finances.
#123
Consumer Suggestion
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Dan Bartlett IL is totally ignorant

Dan - Washington DC (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Wednesday, September 01, 2004
You are an outstanding example of PFA ignorance. This forum is nothing more than a bunch of idiots arguing. Some in favor of Primerica some against it. If this country has so many fools, congratulations Primerica shareholders for recognizing the opportunity to profit from such a large group of knuckleheads.
#124
Employee
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POSTED: Thursday, September 02, 2004
First, a thank you to A.S. You spotted it and MS Word didn't. My bad! Brain said "principal", fingers typed "principle". And MS Word obviously doesn't know the difference either.

But back to the subject -- It's clear that we currently have different perspectives. Perhaps if a CFP had come along to offer me sound advice instead of Primerica, I would be singing praises of Certified Financial Planners. But that didn't happen.

All the "financial advice" that I ever received earlier in my life came from individuals who had a narrow focus. My mortgage banker was only interested in my mortgage. Insurance sales people only asked me "how much insurance could I afford", and never showed me how much I might need, what kinds I could choose from, and for how long I would need it. Credit card companies only made offers to increase my credit line or offers of temporary interest rate adjustments. University financial aid advisors only told me how much or how little aid they could offer to assist my daughters in their education. And my Morgan Stanley representative was never personally involved with my family like that company tries to portray in their commercials.

When Primerica came along, it was the only time that anyone had stepped up to help me to look at my families' complete financial horizon. They helped me to see relationships between all the different financial areas and helped me shift things to improve my overall situation. I am sure that is what you, a Certified Financial Planner, would also do. And from your comments you feel that you would give superior advice to what Primerica offers.

I know that there are a lot of people out there like me who went through many years without much understanding of financial issues. Primerica is reaching out to a lot of those people when other resources aren't. And if the advice that I have gotten from Primerica is "weak", then don't criticize me -- guide me toward even better resources. Tell me where I should go to access or learn how to get "better financial advice". For example, how can I study to become a CFP? Really, I am not "an idiot". I am actually a pretty intelligent guy who happens to be listening to the only company that ever stepped up and provided me with advice across multiple areas.

And really, the advice I have received through Primerica has helped. If you were to look at my full financial picture, you would see that I am in a better position today than I was 2 years ago. And I know that I have helped quite a number of people in turn to improve their situations.

Understand that I was like a person in deep water who has been thrown a rope. And once on that rope, I am just trying to reach out to others who are also in this deep water to give them a hand. If the boat that is pulling me in is unstable, give me a yell and tell me which other boat I should swim toward. At present, Primerica is the only boat offering me any assistance. A.S., Jeff, Peter, your brands of criticism and sarcasm certainly would not draw me toward your solutions.

By the way, A.S. – In your last post, you used “their” when you should have used the word “there”. I guess none of us are as smart or as flawless as we would like to think. But I do thank you for being "concerned" enough to express your frustration at my limited perspective. However, please offer advice instead of name calling and criticism.
#125
Consumer Comment
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POSTED: Thursday, September 02, 2004
First off, it is not my website. It is a website I came accross when doing my search on Primerica.

Like I said in a previous post, I had someone target me from my church. His only purpose of being at our discussion, was to see if he could "solicit" suckers into coming to their meeting. I knew I had heard of his company, before and I wanted to do research before even thinking of going to the meeting.

I do not do any drugs of any kind, and I am college educated. I have plenty of sense to know when to stay away from a fraudulant company. The website clearly states the facts to anyone who is interested in reading about it, just in case someone from Primerica tries contacting them. I just wanted people to be aware of what a fraudulant company this one is.

Why are you such a nasty critical judgemental person, in the first place? Are you so perfect, it gives you the right to be nasty to others?

What made you final judge and executioner, in the first place? You must be an extremely unhappy, insecure individual, and putting down others must make you feel better about your pathetic self.

You probably work for Primerica, and you're upset because I'm exposing the truth about this crappy company.
#126
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Here are my suggestions

Jeff - Muskegon (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004
Dan,

I do have constructive suggestions. If you interpreted my previous post as sarcasm, it was only because I thought you were lauding Primerica as the "one good guy" in the financial world the same way that they teach all their representatives to do. They are not as helpful as they would lead you to believe.

You stated that you have had people and agents give you bad financial advice in the past and that Primerica just "came along" to finally help you out. That is certainly not the case. They have expensive products to sell you just like anybody else and they will recruit anybody who can fog a mirror. Nobody is going "come along" and be your advocate without having their own needs to fill.

Here is my suggestion, Dan. There are plenty of good websites out there with FREE financial advice. The best ones that I have come across are The Motley Fool (fool.com) and Kiplingers Personal Finance (kiplinger.com). Read their material about personal finance. You will learn all sorts of things about stocks, mutual funds, taxes, insurance, retirement plans, you name it. You'll really get a kick out of Primerica's expensive mutual funds after you have done some reading on that topic. You can even take it a step farther on morningstar.com's website. There is a link to their "Learning Center" on the left hand column of the main page. It will lead you to a set of self-paced tutorials on a myraid of topics related to stocks, bonds, and mutual funds. You can even earn reward points (again, for free) to redeem for one of their newsletters or premium sevices and therefore continue your education.

I hope you don't feel like you are drinking from a fire hose, Dan, but there you have it. Nobody is going to help you financially out of the goodness of their heart. You must do it yourself, but you DO have the ability. Good luck.
#127
Employee
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POSTED: Friday, September 03, 2004
I was recruited to PFS by a classmate. As I brought in my friends to be recruited, I felt like the presenters were pressuring my friends into the program. I brought in three and two signed up. It really bothered the presenters would not take no for an answer. They cornered my friends from every angle and it pissed me off. My friends would say "I'll think about it and let you guys know tomorrow." The presenters would almost seemed to attack "why tomorrow why not now? Why do you even have to think about it?" I just believe that if this is the kind of tactics used, it portrays an image a kind of image in the company that PFS is desparate. When I came in, I did a little homework of my own, and knowing this recruiter personally, it made me feel comfortable so I did not hesitate asking a lot of questions and just signed in. Now I feel I victimized myself and after reading several comments on this site.

I've been in the program for almost two weeks now and it's been really an odd thing for me. Last Sunday nite at midnite, everyone was called up to go to an emergency meeting. I was like what kind of emergency is it to make us wake up at midnite. When I got there, now I believe it was a brain wash segment. We were not allowed to talk negative, for fact, these were some words allowed: "I know" "I can". If we said "I think" that's $1 off your check.

I cannot speak for all who have been in PFS, but the few weeks I've been here with my own experience, I believe PFS is not for everyone. The opinions express here are my freely suggestions. I do not intend to offend any kind in any way.
#128
Consumer Comment
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POSTED: Sunday, September 05, 2004
I hope I can save other people the crow that Dan will eat when he finds out he could have done the same thing with better results at just about any lender. First of all this amazeing accelerated mortgage is nothing more than making an extra loan payment a year. Hard to believe I know but with some simple math you should be able to see this. Second of all I promise you are not paying a competitive rate. Whatever you are paying primerica you would have done a point better by just shopping around. The trick they try to pull is they try and not tell you your actual rate, they explain that if you just stay on the plan you will have a lower amount of interest paid therfore theoreticaly lowering your rate. This would have also been the case if you had sent extra payments to your original finance company. The bad news is you just paid all the closeing costs[ including your commishion] and you are now in a loan that has a penelty for early payoff. Its in the fine print believe me, its one of those papers that they rushed you through at closing. So in the end some simple education on loans would have probably made you alot more than 750.00$
#129
Consumer Comment
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Many analogies and opinions

Mike - Chino (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Wednesday, September 08, 2004
I started reading this string of posts from the beginning and it has evolved into alot of finger pointing and nastyness. Some of it stems out of ignorance and some of it stems from self defense tactics (possibly guilt influenced) by the way if I mispell something it's because I overlooked it and not that I am stupid as many of you try to surmise. Now I have no personal experience with PFS but I do have experience w/MLM (Multi-Level Marketing) practices. I unfortunatley got involved with a company called Equinox International run by a man name d Bill Gould. Equinox has been shut down & has been in conservatorship for past 4+ years. Anyway PFS uses MLM practices to recruit reps. Yes the initial $199.00 is training material costs for a Life & Disability Insurance license from the state, and maybe a series 6 & 63 securities license. You must have these state issued license's in order to sell PFS's products (and any other financial service company's product as well as known insurance companies like State Farm) They charge the $199.00 to ensure two things from a "New Recruit" 1) Commitment to the learning process(someone who has a personal investment is more likely to invest the effort to a finish) 2) They recruit a large quantity of people and the cost for training materials would be too much for a "Branch office" to absorb by itself. Primarily it's for reason #1. Reason #2 is the reason for many of the negative responses here. Your success is based on your effort and ability to sell. As in any sales or commissioned based occupation if you don't sell you don't eat. It's as simple as that. Now your ability to sell and the "Moral" apptitude which you apply to your sales depends on you. Unfortunatley when you give a human being the ability to make large amounts of money based on selling a product it opens the door to unscrupulous practices. It's human greed. Some salesmen only care about getting you to sign on the bottom line, especially if they have spent a significant amount of time making no money. First they try the honest approach and when that doesn't work they lie. If a lie makes a sale then they lie again and pretty soon they justify the lies by the praises from thier uplines who only see the dollar signs (because they previously lied too).

Let use this analogy. If a car salesman sells you a 2 seat sports car by telling you that you look great in it. It will use less gas than the mini van you were looking at because of your baby's car seat. The sports car will make him more money than the minivan and the difference in the gas usage will make up for the difference in price and you get a better more expensive car that you look great in. But you didn't need the sports car. You needed the minivan. Now your mad at the salesman for selling you somethng you didn't need. But he did sell you a car just not the right one for you. So now you have to ask yourself this question "Did he drag you off the street and force you to buy a car?" No, you went to buy a car but just ended up with the one not right for you.

So I think we can all agree that some people are natural sales persons (those people who are successful and enjoy selling). Most of us are not "Natural" sales people. PFS recruits by the law of numbers. The more you recruit the more chance you have of finding "Natural" sales persons. true many people find out they don't like the job or it's too much effort. This is true it takes alot of effort. It's more effort for those who don't like selling or feel ashamed or apprehensive of selling or asking someone for money. Most successful people through out history were the ones who had hesitation in asking for money from someone. To be successful in sales you cannot be afraid to ask for money. It's just that simple. Now as I said many people fail at this and they blame it on lack of support from thier uplines. This is probably true. The uplines spent more time with the ones who were making them money. So you failed and now you are bitter and wanna write negative remarks. To this I have one piece of advice. Let it go. You learned a valuable lesson about yourself. And that is that your not a sales person, which is not a bad thing. Don't then turn around and be angry at all salespersons. Be angry at the ones who lie to sell. Just like you can't be angry at all car salesmen but you can be angry at the one who "SOLD" you.
As previously posted there are plenty of sources out there for someone to learn about financial planning if one is willing to look. It sounds as if PFS products aren't as competativley priced as they could be. But that's free enterprise. That's why a smart consumer doesn't buy the first product he is presented with. Do your research and comapareprices and products.

Okay I will step off my soap box now. Hopefully soemone will get something from my babble. For the supporters of PFS, I encourage honesty and moral conduct. For the unscrupulous PFS supporters may I remind you that what comes around go's around. For those who have been contacted by a PFS recruiter you must ask yourself before declining opportunity to learn something, "Can you sell?" "Are you a sales person?" And "Can you succeed honestly?"
#130
Consumer Comment
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POSTED: Thursday, September 09, 2004
Mike in Chino, CA:

You still see only the small picture, and you're still buying into the "people fail in MLM because they can't sell" crap.

Here is the big picture regarding MLM, and that includes Primerica and Equinox and many, many more: MLM sells its products by selling dreams that the vast majority of participants will never achieve. Read that again. And again. Until you get it.

Don't fall for the "we're here to make the little guy rich" rubbish. Those who run MLMs are selling that way as opposed to traditional retail BECAUSE IT'S CHEAP (everybody's their own business unit), DUMPS LEGAL CULPABILITY ONTO THE MLM'S SALESPEOPLE (but don't tell all those independent contractors!), and MOVES PRODUCTS THAT CANNOT COMPETE IN THE RETAIL MARKET ON THEIR OWN MERITS (who's buying? that's right, friends and family who only want the salesperson's "success", or the salesperson himself trying to hit the next sales target for a bonus or "trip"). Most honest people who "failed" simply wised up after finding out the hard way that the products aren't in demand. The only thing in demand is that dream that only 1-2% who got in early will attain. Think about it. If you want to sell products, you hire proven salespeople, not college kids and similarly inexperienced individuals who don't know any better.

In short, your success in MLM is NOT based on your ability to sell. It is based on getting in early, at the top, and selling unattainable dreams to as many people as will pad your pocketbook. In other circles we call that fraud.

And before you throw out the same old lame attack that other networking zombies throw out, NO, I HAVE NOT FAILED IN ANY MLM, nor in any other business. Wake up and get out.

Or just keep on dreaming.
#131
Ex-Employee
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POSTED: Friday, September 10, 2004
I quote from Mike, "Most successful people through out history were the ones who had hesitation in asking for money from someone. To be successful in sales you cannot be afraid to ask for money. It's just that simple." Kind of makes you wonder what
Mike's position is? (sounds like Mike is a natural
born politician).

You will make more money doing burger flippin at
McDonalds then you will working for this slave
company. This applies to all the representatives
who have sales ability. The only way to make money
in this pyramid-scheme company is not by selling
their non-competitive products, but through
recruitment and the odds against that are very, very high in this pyramid-scheme company. Should anybody claim success at working at PFS through selling product alone, let him or her prove it with a tax return and ask what portion of their income derives from product sales and what portion derives from his or her downline? (and ask hard).

Aside from the above fraud and deception is
rampant throughout this company. Just read the
posts on this website and elsewheres on the
internet.
#132
Consumer Comment
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POSTED: Sunday, September 12, 2004
A friend of mine was involved in Primerica.
She sold me life insurance and recruited my son.

After 6 months of endless meetings, hundreds of dollars in gas and a total earnings of $450.00 my son gave up. He said that it reminded him of a cult. Since then he started a refrigeration business with his friend and they grossed over two hundred thousand their first year in business. (Not bad for a couple of kids.)

My friend kept going. She spent three long years. She quit her job and did it full time; cashing in her retirement to live on while she "built up her business."

She too finally gave up and got a "real job" as she put it.

I still have my life insurance policy. My friend admitted to me that it really is over priced, and sugessted I shop around.

When I asked why she quit Primerica all she would say was that she "finally wised up". When I pressed her for details she told me she could not discuss it.

A few months later she moved away and I have lost touch with her. I still don't know what happened, or why she quit, or why she was so upset - or worse - why she just disapeared.

I've been shopping around for life insurance. I haven't switched yet - but found that I am paying about 10 percent more then I should.
#133
Owner of Company
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PRIMERICA GOES WAY BEYOND OVER PRICED!

Peter - Las Vegas (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Tuesday, September 14, 2004
Danielle,

Your problem with Primerica goes way beyond over price. To give you a little info about your policy money is not the only issue. Since I don't have an actual copy of your policy to look at I can just give you an overview of the holes in their term life insurance policies.

Your term policy has many problems. The biggest being the conversion privilege in your policy. Since Primerica is the only insurance company out of about 1700 that does not sell universal life or whole life savings polices, you could have a very big problem if you become uninsurable down the road.

Most insurance companies let you trade in your term policy for a "permanent life policy" without showing any proof of medical insurability. Thus you can still have a policy the rest of your life after your term policy expires. Sure the permanent policies cost more but many insurance companies now sell universal life policies with a guaranteed rate up to age 100. Thus your insurance rates can never change.

Primerica only lets you trade in your policy for a yearly renewable policy (rates go up every year, the death benefit stays the same), or a decreasing term policy (rate stays the same but the death benefit goes down every year.

Once your term of your policy is up you are screwed with them. I have had clients that have become uninsurable and now they really value having a some type of policy since they can't get any more insurance. My clients get good options with the term polices I sold them.

Primerica doesn't address un-insurability in their pitches. If you are stuck selling a crappy policy why tell your prospective client it's potential pitfalls.

Another problem is the unisex rate charges they charge everyone. All other companies give females a lower rate then males at the same age. Not these guys...they want to make it so easy for their agents to give a quote and not mess it up, that females pay more with them.

Last if you are paying by automatic checking draft then hold on to your shocks. All insurance companies charge a fee for a monthly checking draft or quarterly and semi annual billings, but Primerica rips you off with a very high monthly check draft fee.

Take your annual billing amount shown on your policy and divide by 12. Now take the amount they draft out of you checking account each month and add all 12 months up together. Big difference! Bingo.... you have been raped.

I can go on and on but I will stop at this last point. If you are uninsurable or need to have estate planning because you have a lot of money(Living Trust Estate, one million or more), then you need a savings type or permanent life insurance policy....not term insurance.

Remember they sell what they own... even if it is not the right policy for you. As far as shopping out new term insurance policy, make sure the policy is guaranteed for the length of the term you are shopping for (10,15,20,25,30 years), and it is from an A+ or A++ company. Also make sure you get all the rates in all the categories from each company ( P+, Preferred, Standard).

Oh guess what.... Primerica does not have a P+ category. Gee I found another problem with them.
#134
Consumer Comment
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POSTED: Tuesday, September 14, 2004
1.) Its legal

2.) A lot of peopel fail

3.) A lot of business' fail

4.) Some people do really well.

Take a look at your intentions if you want to get rich quick you will fail. To tell you the truth if you put nearly as much effort as you do in Primerica an any other business you would prob make a lot of money! The problem is people dont. LOL.

Some things Primerica offers to everyone
1.) Sales experience (Knowing how to sell is just knowing how to succeed)
2.) Positive outlook (nothing wrong with that)

Things to think about
1.) You wont get rich quick!
2.) ITS HARD LIKE EVERYTHING ELES!
3.) Good chance you will fail. (sorry, thats life)

Everyone rich person in america has knowledge and courage. Every Million ever made was not made completly honest. So you find out your policy is a little expensive!?!!??! um last time i checked this is america that happens! I dont think its fair that all you people complain about this company. You need to let it go. The truth is it works for some and it doesnt work for others. But wouldnt you agree that if someone can make this work they have something that the average person doesnt. think about it
#135
Ex-Employee
Respond to this report! What's This?

Rebuttal to Eric (Irvine)

Stuart - North Brunswick (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Wednesday, September 15, 2004
I'm going to have a make believe conversation with
Eric.

Me: "Well Eric, What was that first statement you
made about Primerica?"

Eric: "It's legal"

Me: "What's legal about Primerica? Its pyramid
scheme?"

Eric: "It's not a pyramid scheme. You're actually
selling a product at Primerica."

Me: "Well Eric, has any front line person made a
living selling insurance?"

Eric: "Well uhhh..."

Me: "I thought so. Still a pyramid scheme since you depend on recruitment to make a living. What
was that second statement?"

Eric: "A lot of people fail"

Me: "Fail at what Eric? What kind of people? What
do you mean by a lot? Are you referring to
Primerica frontline agents? What was that next
statement?"

Eric: "A lot of businesses fail"

Me: "Which businesses Eric? Startup businesses?
Fraudulent businesses? Businesses that plan
poorly? Since we're concerned with the insurance
industry, can you name even one major insurance
company that has failed? And by failure do you
mean going bankrupt or insolvent or something else? What was your fourth statement?"

Eric: "Some people do really well"

Me: "Who at that slave company, Primerica, does
really well Eric? The fat cats at the top of the
pyramid? I've never seen it documented where a
frontline agent did well. In fact your chances are
better at making money at McDonalds doing burger
flipping. What was that you said about getting
rich quick?"

Eric: "You won't get rich quick"

Me: "Let me add on to that. You'll never get rich
nor make a decent living as a frontline Primerica
slave agent Eric. What can Primerica guarantee
Eric?"

Eric: "Um um an opportunity?"

Me: "An opportunity for what Eric?"

Eric: "To eventually get rich"

Me: "You must be talking about recruitment through
misleading statements and deception which is
rampant throughout the slave company, isn't that right Eric?"

Eric: no response

Me: "I guess the cat's got your tongue Eric. What
was that you said about making an honest living?"

Eric: "Every million ever made was not made by
complete honesty"

Me: "Gosh Eric. Did I hear right? Are you're
saying that all successful business people are
dishonest? Is this your perception of people in
general?"

Eric: "...this is America, this happens."

Me: "Eric, how do you feel about Primerica?"

Eric: "I don't think it's fair that all you people
complain about this company. You need to let it go. The truth is it works for some and it doesn't
work for others."

Me: "The truth Eric is that this slave company
only works for the fat cats at the top and nobody
else. Fraud, deception and misrepresentation is
rampant throughout the company. I think, or even
better, I know it's fair to complain about this
slave company Eric because that's the purpose of
Ripoff Report to expose companies like Primerica.
I don't know what rock you crawled out from under,
but I'd suggest you go back there if you're so uncomfortable about people pointing out all the
fraud about Primerica.

One more thing Eric. I had to correct your poor
grammar and spelling to do my quotes. Poor
grammar and spelling is one of the major reasons
why businesses lose money each year (and sometimes
fail).
#136
Consumer Comment
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POSTED: Wednesday, September 15, 2004
To Stuart, Please tell me I am very curious...if in fact the company is what you say fraudulant, deceptive, and misrepresents itself- how do you suppose they do this legally? How are they in the Dow Jones 30? How on earth do they get by with it? How are they A++ in AM Best? Why would our goverment even bother with putting guards outside their parent co. citigroup? Remember when that happened just weeks ago? You just seem soooo knowledgable your input would mean sooo much. Really do tell???
#137
Ex-Employee
Respond to this report! What's This?
POSTED: Thursday, September 16, 2004
Genelle,

I assume that what you mean by how do they do this
legally is why is Primerica still in business?

Keep in mind that Primerica sells a piece of garbage which barely makes it legal to stay in business as defined under the law. It's still structured as a pyramid scheme because the basis for making any real money is through recruitment which is why a frontline agent is heavily pressured to give over names of their friends and relatives.

The ones who benefit from the recruitment are the
fat cats at the top of the pyramid in this slave
company. This company is well known for doing fraud throughout many of its branches if you read up on the posts at this website and elsewheres on the internet. A typical example is contacting people off of their resume postings as if to offer a real job (i.e. salaried) or making it seem as if
you're going to make a lot of money right away (in
your first year) which is misrepresentation and
deception. What makes it fraudulent is that it's
being done deliberately which I'm sure the fat
cats are aware of. Their silence I take as consent.

Just because a company is big (like Enron or some
of the others on Ripoff Report) or has been
around for awhile doesn't make it any more legit.
Some simple changes in the law along with
government prosecution and class action suits
would readily take care of MLMs without affecting
the companies that are doing business legitimately.

That's why Genelle.
#138
Consumer Comment
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Primerica equals Freedom

Phillip - Kissimee (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Saturday, September 18, 2004
I have read some of the negative aspects of this report and wish to clear up some of the blatant lies against this company. This company has helped me get out of debt and helped me save for retirement. The Representative that came to my home helped me tremendously and I have been to thier business meeting and gained a lot of information on financial matters and I am very seriously thinking about joining this company to help my friends and family.First of all Citigroup is a parent of Primerica, Primerica is a wholely owned subsidiary that is responsible for it self. In the subject of recruiting, ALL COMPANIES IN THE UNITED STATES RECRUIT!!!!. Why recruit, to grow a business. Nobody would ever buy a business with one person in it, let alone by shares in a company of one person, if it were a corporation. THE CIA RECRUITS AT UNIVERSITIES, THE ARMY RECRUITS, THE COAST GUARD, THE LAPD, THE NYPD, IBM, MICROSOFT, MOTOROLA, APPLE, PRUDENTIAL, REMAX, STATE FARM, ETC. ETC. ETC.(MOSTLY THROUGH ADVERTISEMENTS IN THE HELP WANTED SECTION OF YOUR NEWSPAPER. THE REASON FOR THE $199.00 IS FOR YOUR STATE LICENSE. DID YOUR MOMMA PAY FOR YOUR DRIVER'S LICENSE, NO BECAUSE IT IS YOUR LICENSE. IF YOU WANT A JOB AT FEDEX, FEDEX IS NOT GOING TO PAY FOR YOUR COMMERCIAL DRIVER'S LICENSE. THAT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY! A PYRAMID IS DEFINED AS ANY BUSINESS THAT PAYS PEOPLE TO RECRUIT AS THE ONLY COMPENSATION. THIS COMPANY IS BY NO STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION A PYRAMID. GET A LIFE AND LAY OFF THIS COMPANY, THEY HELP PEOPLE, AMEN AMEN AMEN.....
#139
Ex-Employee
Respond to this report! What's This?

Blatant Lies of Phillip

Stuart - North Brunswick (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Sunday, September 19, 2004
To Phillip:

(1) "A PYRAMID IS DEFINED AS ANY BUSINESS THAT PAYS PEOPLE TO RECRUIT AS THE ONLY COMPENSATION. THIS COMPANY IS BY NO STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION A PYRAMID." All the unprofessional shouting in your allcap posting doesn't change the fact that Primerica is a pyramid scheme which benefits the fat cats at the top of the pyramid. No agent makes a living off of the sale of their garbage term insurance which is designed to benefit the fat cats at the top of the pyramid in this slave company.

(2) If No. 1 weren't bad enough, lying is rampant
throughout the company about what newcomer agents
can expect to actually make from the company along
with the deception and misrepresentation as the
posts to this website and others indicate.

(3) "This company has helped me get out of debt and helped me save for retirement." Why not prove
this with documentation Phillip. Just put up a
website with your documents with full details
(including the amount of debt you started off with
and how long it took you to clear out the debt and
how much you actually paid including all fees to
clear up your debt). Then put a link to your
website. Put your money where your mouth is or go
back to the rock you crawled out from under and
give Eric some company. Amen Amen Amen.

(4) There are both legitimate and illegitimate
purposes for recruitment. Primerica is the second
one.
#140
Consumer Comment
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POSTED: Monday, September 20, 2004
This message is in response to all Primerica's "Personal Finacial Analysts" First of all to set the record straight you are not financial analysts. You are salepeople. I have sold life insurance for nearly 20 years and have seen the damage that you "part-timers" inflict upon perfectly decent life policys. You are not all bad people, just poorly informed. And secondly one person wrote that "We are the largest finacial company in the world with a trillion dollars in assets" also false. Citigroup doesn't even mention you on their webpage. If you click on life insurance it sends you to Travelers site which sells permanent insurance. Several times I've had to deal with you sales people and it always ends up the same.
Truth wins out and you go back home and service my car the next day. If you're serious about helping people then get training from a reputable company that is a member of NAIFA and subsribes to the ethics of the MDRT.

And if you are still convinced that term insurance is the only solution then why would you sell a product that is grossly overpriced and not competitive. The truth is that you are captive and work in a market that caters to the low end market with minimal education.

Buyer Beware
#141
Ex-Employee
Respond to this report! What's This?
POSTED: Tuesday, September 21, 2004
I read most of the comments for and against PFS. My personal opinion, which is what we are all sharing here, is that we as consumers need to do our home work and not be taken by hype and excitement.

First, PFS is the continuation of AL Williams, founded by Arthur L. Williams, a compassionate and charismatic high school football coach. Art Williams was a former policy holder of a whole life insurance policy. He learned through a conversation that he might be paying too much money for too little life insurance coverage. He investigated his options and discovered that if he purchased term life insurance, pure insurance without any cash value attached or available, and invested the difference in cost between term and whole life into an investment vehicle that had a higher return than the current tax base or inflation (which was in the double digits at the time) he would be better off financially. He, as many of us, just wanted to earn some extra income to help pay bills. So he decided to get licensed with a company that focused more on term insurance than whole life (universal life wasn't created yet, in fact universal life is the insurance industry's response to AL Williams & PFS). Art's enthusiasm to save people money and his integrity is how AL Williams and PFS has grown into the company that it is. Art wanted to create a company that allowed anyone that wanted to help others and were able to pass a state life insurance exam to be able to start part time and earn extra income to help pay bills.

PFS is a financial services company like all the other financial services companies that you are familiar with. They may differ in the fact that they permit part time representatives and focus on asset management rather than strictly looking for opportunities to sell insurance. PFS reps of integrity will strive to do whats right for the consumer. Many consumerists that have no affiliation to PFS or AL Williams agree that buying term insurance and investing the difference in cost to whole life and universal life is a better value for your money. The dilemma is that we as humans tend to not put a priority on our future investments versus our current bills and wants. We are an "immediate gratification" society. The financial concept of buying low cost products and investing the difference does work if you are a disciplined individual. It has worked for many consumers and reps affiliated with PFS. But there are also those of us that know we aren't disciplined and are willing to pay the added costs to have someone else manage our money similar to a Christmas club where you put away a predetermined amount of money in the bank so that you have money available when Christmas comes around.

I have worked with both AL Williams and Primerica but have found that I am not willing to put forth the effort to prospect for new sales or recruits. This becomes an obsession and has ruined many relationships both romantic because my partner would feel left out and friendship because they get tired of hearing about the "opportunity." I also have worked for MetLife and Bankers Casualty. What I have found is that it was a lot more exciting to be an independent rep with ALW or PFS than an employee with the latter. Life insurance sales is not for everyone though. It's funny how people immediately change the subject of occupations or find a reason to leave the conversation when you tell them you are an insurance agent. Maybe this is why terms like Asset Manager or business owner are used by PFS reps.

PFS is a sales organization, like every other business on the planet. There will ALWAYS be good and bad apples. There will ALWAYS be those that are "just in it for the money". But YOU as a consumer need to investigate every angle prior to boasting about an opportunity or knocking it. This great country, USA, was built on the freedom to participate in any opportunity that doesn't hurt people. The concepts of PFS are mathematically proven to work. The loans are simple interest and are recalculated with each payment therefore you aren't paying interest on interest like most loans. The interest rate is irrelevant. They do have to make a profit, LIKE EVERY OTHER BUSINESS. You have to pay for the priviledge to borrow, if you don't need to borrow money to pay down your debt then you are luckier than many.

As far as their tactic to recruit using group interviews, this is a common method of informing many prospective employees or independent contractors used by many if not most sales companies. Sales is a profession that has the opportunity to pay you based on your efforts not on the whim of an executive of the company or restricted by the budget of the department. Sales as a profession is NOT for everyone, there are a lot of sacrifices and rejection involved. That's why I'm no longer in it! We are fortunate in the USA to have a choice of which field we choose to work in. We have a government that even guarantees loans if we choose to go to school or pay you to stay home on welfare if that is your choice. YOU are RESPONSIBLE for your path in life. Be accountable for what you do and do your best to live by the golden rule and do for others as you would have them do for you!
#142
Ex-Employee
Respond to this report! What's This?
POSTED: Tuesday, September 21, 2004
Primerica is not like any other business.

Primerica is a slave company with no opportunity
for frontline agents to make a decent living. It's
a pyramid scheme designed to benefit the fat cats at the top of the pyramid. It's also a fraudulent
company as deceit and misrepresentation are rampant throughout this company. This company also sells an overpriced, piece of garbage term insurance policy which only benefits the fat cats at the top of this slave company, not the hard-working frontline agents who deserve to benefit from their hard work, but don't (you'd make more money flipping burgers at McDonalds).

There are Primerica shills that love to dress up
this company as if it were respectable which isn't
the case as an examination of the postings by
thousands of individuals on this website alone
reveals. Don likes to associate Primerica with
respectable companies is like comparing apples to
lemons (MetLife's an apple, Primerica's the lemon).

Again I challenge Primerica to put forth
documents proving that a frontline agent is making
a decent living. Set up the website with links to
this one.
#143
Ex-Employee
Respond to this report! What's This?
POSTED: Tuesday, September 21, 2004
You are right, this site is designed to expose scams and fraudulant companies. I applaud your determination to continue to follow this thread. As a disgruntled ex-independent representative of PFS or ALW you sound like you are placing blame and responsibility on your inability to make a livable income on the company rather than yourself. There is no perfect company, PERIOD! But regardless of which sales company a person sells for, most of which REQUIRE you to work full time from the beginning, an individual is accountable for his or her own determination and perserverance(sp). There are successful representatives and unsuccessful representatives in EVERY company in the world. Some quit and strike back and blame the company or the product and some are fired and still blame the company or product. Truth: PFS's term products are overprices, as are any mlm company's products. That's the only way to pay multiple levels and still show a profit. MLM's are designed to recruit people to give them possession of the opportunity and ownership of their own company, which has a tendency to blind people of common sense. I mean how many people actually purchase $200 of jewelry every year, which is what Jewelway coaxed their reps into doing. (No, I didn't get sucked into that one.) MLM is just another way for promoting a product, like tv and cable advertising. Before media came along, many products were sold door to door. BUT ALWAYS, WORD OF MOUTH WILL AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN THE MOST EFFECTIVE FORM OF ADVERTISEMENT. That is the reason for this site, albeit a negative word of mouth, but effective just the same. All consumers should be as informed as you, BEFORE participating in a company or purchasing a product.

PFS' and any other replacement product for a long term whole life or universal life product are not going to be the right thing, financially. I am not necessarily a proponent for an overpriced whole life product and have seen how a universal life product will collapse without increasing premiums in slow economic times, but a long term product, especially a mutual product has already been purchased and is at a lower premium due to the age at which the policy was opened(sp).

Any MLM company is going to experience a 95% failure rate and the 5% that is is successful is either someone with a large downline from another company or has a large amount of disposable income or is unscrupulous. I've experienced all of these individuals in companies I've been involved with. Even those 5%er's with a large downline in another company had to work at some point to get that large downline. THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH! We all have to pay the price sometime, and being a graduate with a BS degree in business, I know that education is no guarantee of success either. I've been downsized 3 times in the last 4 years. I do know that those that don't have anything but a strong repoir with thier associated work extremely hard to be successful in their MLM company. I've personally known many successful individuals in PFS and ALW that were nothing and now are "Fat Cat's" as you put it. I've watched the sacrifices of family and leisure time to get there, and I personally, as I see you were, not willing to make those sacrifices. As far as a livable income, PFS allows you to work part time until your residuals and/or downline is large enough to provide a steady income. It is your opportunity as a leader to help those around you to be successful and therefore assure your income will be more assured. When I was in PFS and other companies, I always knew that you can't rely on the production of others and must provide your basic needs by your own production. But as with McDonald's the more outlets you have the more likely a steady income will come in.

I bet you would be more successful in supplemental insurance with AFLAC or Continental insurance. Then you can talk to groups of people at one time and actually increase income by purchasing supplemental insurance through a pre-taxed cafeteria plan. As far as PFS, they are MLM, buyer/consumer beware. Learn everything you need to before making a decision on whether to purchase or join PFS. If you believe in the concept of "buy term and invest the difference" or "you have equity in your house and want to get a high interest rate but lower yield simple interest loan to pay down debt" then you should investigate these options with more than just PFS. You may find you can sacrifice AM Best ratings and get a lower premium or less points and get a lower yielding loan. It is your responsibility to investigate your options. NOT THE SALESPERSON'S. He or she is trying to support his or her family, NOT YOURS!!!

If you join any MLM company, investigate the company with the federal regulatory agencies. If a company isn't going to be around why would you recruit anyone into it? Do you really feel that low about another person just for your financial gain? If you aren't willing to do that, it is as bad and hold a gun to their head and taking their money, although illegal in this country, it is much quicker and saves you both the heartache.

Sorry to drag on like I did, without consistency, but that is why I am able to sit here as an apartment manager rather than a Fat Cat, because I am not busy sacrificing and selling the world the new widget, I am comfortably enjoying freedom of actually not working full time in a job. But a low income is sufficient for me and I made that decision to spend more free time with my soul mate wife rather than work 60 - 80 hours per week to bring home a little more disposable income after taxes.

I hope you are able to find it within yourself that maybe sales is not your gig and find solitude in working for a company that determines your wages based on THEIR budget and their whim. Please remember, on your death bed, I promise you that you will not be regretting that you didn't work enough, PUT FAMILY FIRST!!!

God bless you, your family and your friends!
#144
Ex-Employee
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Don, You are once again WRONG!

Justu - Bel Air (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Wednesday, September 22, 2004
You need a fundamental education in Finance to make a meaningful difference between fact and fiction a.k.a advertising agenda. You need to read more than what your company is telling you.

A.L. Williams is not the compassionate man. He was just a shrewd salesman. He may have had good intentions in the beginning, but I assure you, he knew better as soon as his income surpassed the equivalent of $100K per annum in today's dollars. However, he continued to preach the wrong message for his own gain.

Consumers must be educated that term life premiums and its lost opportunity cost can be very expensive over the life expectancy of any consumer who employs such a strategy. The potential loss of the death benefit of the term life policy may leave the invested difference account vulnerable to income taxes, estate taxes, market declines, and liquidity problems.

Although term life insurance plays an important role in many financial situations, one must consider all of the factors associated with the cost of the premiums over time, the potential loss of the earnings on those premiums, and the ultimate possible loss of the death benefit. If the term life policy has expired and the stock market is perhaps in a downward cycle at the time of the ultimate death, the effects of this strategy can be financially damaging to heirs.

Many financial writers have advised the public for decades about the virtues of term life insurance. Their basic assumption is that term life insurance is low cost. Let's see if this is true or false.

A male, 30 years old, can purchase a term life policy with a guaranteed annual premium of $395 for $500,000 of coverage. This sounds like a low cost, but here are the real facts:

The premium cost is $395 x 20 yrs. = $7,900. This seems innocent enough, but this person and his family will lose over $1,000,000 if he lives to his life expectancy or beyond. (By the way, less than 1% of the people who buy term insurance coverage ever die to benefit from it).

Here's why:
If the $395 premium had been invested instead, for 20 years at a hypothetical 10% (example Roth IRA), it would have grown to $24,886 by age 50.
Even though the term policy may be cancelled at age 50 because the person might say he doesn't need the insurance any longer), the lost opportunity cost cannot be cancelled and could continue to grow larger and larger throughout the remainder of his life.

Suppose he lived to age 90. Then: the $24,886 loss at the hypothetical 10% for 40 more years would increase to $1,126,322.

However, since the death benefit was cancelled, the family could also incur other asset losses at the ultimate death such as income taxes, estate taxes, probate fees, court costs, legal fees, accounting fees, and possibly a forced sale of assets.

In this hypothetical example, the term policy would have cost approximately $1,626,322 to the heirs.
#145
Employee
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Something To Think Of

Ryan - Clifton (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Tuesday, September 21, 2004
I have been involved with Primerica for approximately 7 months. At the time I joined, I had left my job where I was working approximately 85 hours per week. I was shown Primerica by my fiance's cousin. Please note that I joined Primerica for a part-time opportunity only. I work a full-time job as an accountant and make a decent living - as by most people's accounts of a decent living.

You may not agree with what I write, but just like you, we are all entitled to our opinion.

When I was introduced to Primerica I was told that I had an opportunity to make extra money and that it was not a full-time position. I had my own Financial Needs Analysis (FNA) completed and found out that I needed to rethink my saving and spending.

I was not asked by my field trainer to invest money that I did not have. Instead I was shown how to make the money I make monthly work for me in different ways. Like why you should pay yourself first and not the government. I, like many people I know, have been contributed a lot less to my 401k than I should have been doing. Think of it this way. If you were to put an extra $100 to your 401k (pre-tax) you would only be taking home approximately $65-$70 less in your paycheck. The other $30-$35 would be going to the government for taxes. Plus you would be saving for "your" retirement. We all want to retire and live comfortably during our retirement.

I also found that I could save myself approx $20 by switching my insurance to term insurance. The $20 I save per month is now invested into a retirement account with other money. If everytime you were able to save money and contribute to yourself you would be able to have a decent amount by retirement. It provides me with the same death benefit as did my previous policy. Obviously term does not protect you for life but that is why you need to save money for yourself and eliminate your debt. That is something you as a person have to do.

Now for me as a representative of Primerica. I have done FNA's for friends and family and have never pressured them into utilizing any services we offer. If I cannot help them I don't force to utilize the services. Anyone who does should definitely be reprimanded.

I have made approximately $4k during my part-time experience. I know you are saying that's nothing, but lets put it into perspective. My fiance and I have to pay for our wedding ourselves. So $4k is a lot of money to us. Plus I am not pressured to promote Primerica every free moment I have. I help people out when I can and when they need my help. I don't cold call anyone and will never do so. Plus I had no time to do this with my previous full-time employer. I am getting the same full-time salary now as with my previous employer. Except I am now making an extra $4k from Primerica.

And I don't worry what other people above me make. At the end of the day i'm more concerned with the money I make helping people than what goes into the pockets of those above me.

I wish everyone had a positive experience. But, unfortunately not everything that happens in our lives is positive.
#146
Consumer Suggestion
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i want the time i spent back in my life

A Smart Person - Tampa (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Wednesday, September 22, 2004
I received a call from a lady representing this company as she got my resume from a major online jobsite. She talked a really good game on the phone, and being I was out of work, i was willing to give this a try. I drove for an hour deep in another county to a woman's house. a very nice house in a very nice neighborhood.

I was met at the door by this woman and her husband, an nice looking business-type couple. I was led to their "office" to fill out an application. At first I found it odd i was meeting someone in their home, but her business card and paperwork showed she was some big shot manager. I was made to look at some tapes in their living room, not about the company as I expected, but how these people worked for the company and made this much money.....doing basically nothing.

None of this had anything to do with the job I thought I was "interviewing" for. AFter watching the movie she sort of went into "pep talk mode" on what I thought, and I told her I was confused. At this point the husband wanted to give me a tour of his house and basically explained that as a manager, I would be sort of hiring people to work under me and I'd make more money this way.

Immediately I felt i was being recruited in a pyramid scheme, and wanted out of there fast. When I got home I looked in the phonebook for Primerica, and found an office three blocks from my house!! When I called and asked them about it, I was told they knew nothing about what I went thru, also stating vaguely about complaints being submitted. At this point I felt had, as this woman had my personal info to do with as they wished. I wish I could remember how to get back to that lady's house >:-|
#147
Consumer Comment
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Coming soon to the Tampa Bay Market!!! Beware!

Annonymous12 - Tampa (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Wednesday, September 22, 2004
So here I am an individual who wishes to warn the Tampa Bay area of an expansion that I do not feel is legitimate or fully legitimate and felt the general public really reads these reports.

Recently I received a call from a rep from Primerica, stating that my resume made its way to his desk and I could potentially fit into the company. I called the contact back and was greeted by a very curtious worker for Primerica. The conversation started out great but quickly went sour when I began to ask a few legimate questions about the position. I do not think the person who called me was prepared to answer the questions, became very skeemish or absent. The answers provided all yieled the same response "that will be answered in the first "preliminary interview." What in the world is a preliminary interview? I have never heard of one. Maybe he meant to say first interview. First red flag went up!

The second red flag came when the individual told me he was going to schedule an interview for me this week and just as I said I was looking at my calendar he said "I'll call you back in 1/2 hour, a client just walked through the door." Then he hung up.

When looking for a job there are some very basic things every person should do.

1. Promptly return the call if you received a message to let the company know your interested.

2. Ask questions-limit the questions to no more than 8 minutes worth and just find out about the pay system, the product and the general company information.

3. Take notes as to the answers provided.

4. Research the company online and get the answers to the questions you asked, ten compare to the answers provided.

In my case this was all done and it is apparent y what I have read here and what I have reasearched that this is such a scam. So as a warning to the Tampa Bay Area...If you get a call like this and they are offering you a management position, tell you its Primerica and they are expanding 3-5 offices in the region you should tell them outright "Hell No!" Then ask them if it sounds like a phone hanging up and promptly hang up on them!

The last warning I have and this has everything to do with any company who tells you that you need to pay for training and supplies, you should stand up and walk out immediatly. This should be the signal that you are about to give them some money you may never see again. The meeting may have 20 people there, 6 of which will be hired 20 of which paid. So 14 will never see that money again. Congratulations you just made yourself even more poor than before and on top of that you wasted 8 hours of your time you could have been looking for another job, mowing the lawn, doing the laundry, making love to your spouse, cooking dinner, watching football, playing a video game etc etc...all of which are far better than the crap you just heard! Good Luck to all who really feel that Primerica is a legitimate company. I hope you become very succesful. For the 99% of us who know better and really want to do something with our lives we'll just keep looking and laugh at you when you call again!

Annonymous in Tampa
#148
Consumer Comment
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Thx for saving me time!

Jack - Easton (United States Minor Outlying Islands)

POSTED: Wednesday, September 29, 2004
I was contacted and was told I'd be traing 75 people per month to open offices. You saved me time because now I'm not going.
#149
Ex-Employee
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POSTED: Wednesday, September 29, 2004
I was one of the first five "employees" for the district.

Primerica works like any insurance company, and that is all it is. I used to sell people the whole line about "resolving their debts" and "spending budget 'wise'". But what is the end result of these financial advice "meetings"? I sold them life insurance that they may or may not have needed.

In reality insurance is a good thing, unless the salesman is convincing someone who can't afford it to buy some. Which was my job.

And yes the more people you recruit the more you skim in profits from their sales, but all and I mean all sales work that way. Even KMart has buyers and middlemen who mark up re-sell and pass it on to the consumer.

I dont think that Primerica is a good company, but a rip off? I think not, they give the consumer whatever the consumer gets doped into buying, so it isn't really a ripoff, a less than reputable business maybe, but far from a scam.