Primerica Financial Services - Research of its financial products and Business Opportunity, Primerica shows total commitment to resolve all issues and misunderstandings, committed to serving clients & agents Rip-off Report investigates and finds most of what is posted is ridiculous like this title, Primerica Financial Services - Traveler's Insurance, chanting Amen, perhaps comparing Primerica to a cult *UPDATE: Rip-off Report Investigation examines the Company and its record of service to consumers and representatives

No Ripoff Report posted has accused Primerica of racism.

They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:

Their email: bondjedi@hotmail.com
Their name: Michael Angelo

Their relationship to the company: Consumer Suggestion

Rebuttal:
This rip-off report seems to be a case of "piling on". Primerica ripped you off because...they tried to recruit you?

Though unsavory some Primerica reps may seem, your comments about the "mixed variety of people" with "little or no education" makes you seem even more unsavory. No Ripoff Report posted has accused Primerica of racism. You, unfortunately, sound very bigoted.

Good luck with your "Instructional Design" career.

Response to College Education, Take a look, and Racism

This is in response to the rebuttals College Education, Take a look, and Racism.

I did not say that having a College Education made me better than any one else. It does enable me to be paid more in certain businesses and in those businesses one is paid according to educational background and experience. I did state that I did not wish to start at ground zero in salary or not be able to negotiate my worth.

Take a look's rebuttal .....Any company I have worked for has compensated as per salary daily rate for any training. Companies I have workded for have not asked me to bring friends to meetings or chastised me for not bringing friends to meetings. Furthermore, interviewers have always been able to provide answers to questions. Brochures about the company are given, etc. Yes, most company's are recruiting but most interview according to skills, experience, etc. listed on the resume. My background is technology, education and leadership. No where in the interview did any of my skills come to the front and discussed. There were no questions about what I do best in my expertise, or my weaknesses, or do I like what I do. I was basically told that I was in a dead end job and would never make enough money at it. No one asked what I did make. And, although it was mentioned that they help get people out of debt, the rest of the meetings and videos was all about how many people you need to recruit in order to become rich. I did not hear the philosophy of getting people out of debt as the focus.

To address the "racism" or "bigotry" ...there was no mention of ethnic groups and no intent; therefore, the accusation of my being racist is unfounded and reaching. I never accused Primerica of being racist, either. What I did state is If Primerica is allowing meetings to be conducted with chants of "Amens" and "put downs" of other jobs, then it is Primerica who needs to assess their bigotry and prejudice and lack of respect. For example, what if you had a Johovah Witness or Muslim among the group. Would not that be an insult and a valid show of disrepect to them? Any company who recruits a vast number of people must instill among all who represent the company the need to be "politically correct", wouldn't you agree? A large company represented by a mast number of individuals has to maintain the integrity, ethics and morals in all aspects of its structure. I did not witness that in the last meeting I attended. Keep in mind that the video was top people of Primerica and people from all over and the chanting was allowed and encouraged. Even the people in the audience of the meeting I was in were chanting. Sorry, but that is not acceptable in a non clergy setting. Rather than being so defensive with some of these rip off reports, you who represent Primerica should seriously listen to how you are preceived by some, stop taking it personally and firing back with immature remarks, and use it to your advantage to make change. Shooting the messenger is not always the best solution.

They will never admit that they are dishonest, misdleading and stretching the truth about their products.

Fran,

It is a shame that they prey on the less educated and young college students. It amazes me how many people believe them. I currently have a family member involved and wish I can do soemthing to help him realize the truth. I tried to explain things to him, but he is so well trained and brainwashed, he doesn't listen to a a word I have to say. Like all of the other people that argue how great the company, in actuality, they talk about how great Citigroup and/or Citicorp is not Primerica, because they know the reputation Primerica has and they can only bank on the reputation of Citicorp, anyway, he always has something to say and turns your comments or concerns around, like them all.
I really wish that the company can be put out of business, but I know that they won't unless no one will buy their products.
It will never end.

I sounded the alarm on this company nearly 20 years ago

Terri:

I sounded the alarm on this company nearly 20 years ago when friends of mine were involved (including family members of mine).

I posted on 10/18/2004 and not one of the big guys in the company have ever answered what I exposed.

Best of success to all legitimate industry people.

a relative will ruin or put a relative relationship in jeapardy to recruit or sell a product

I am not sure if anyone would have an intimate relationship to recruit someone, but I do know that a relative will ruin or put a relative relationship in jeapardy to recruit or sell a product. Is interesing to know if someone ever did.

It's a shame that most of these people, truly believe in the "Primerica Way".

My situation is that a relative came to my husband to sell us many different products, and unlike my husband, I all ready knew what was going to happen, and we have been fighting about it ever since. This has been going on for three months now. They thrive on the relationships that they have whether it is family or friends. Like you said, they ruin alot of relationships, because it's greed. Money is the root of ALL EVIL.

I too love this site, although, I really do wish that there is something else I can do about this situation. I feel like my hands are tied because they are so big. The little people don't have enough power to make a difference, and that is a huge shame.

Ponzi's original marketing scam remains firmly in place at Primerica

It's Januarary 2006, yet I felt like I was stuck in a time warp when I read the report at the top of this page (it was filed in 2001). Why? Because it mirrored my Primerica "interview" that took place earlier this afternoon *exactly* - detail for detail.

There is no possible way that this is coincidental - Primerica obviously has a very specific SOP (that's Standard Operating Procedure for those who don't know) modeled upon a the foundation of half-truths and obfuscation described by the lady who filed the initial report here.

Three things from my own "interview" (I have placed this word in parentheses as the interview is, in reality, a group presentation) that specifically stood out:

1. The Regional Vice President that spoke to us specifically mentioned that Primerica is not a Pyramid Scheme. If a company has to specifically spell that out for potential employees, there is a very good chance that said company is, in fact, exactly that thing which they claim not to be (more on this in a second).

2. The Regional Vice President told us that he was raking in the money yet, for some reason, he (and, for that matter, most of his colleagues) was wearing a suit at least one size too small for him with a *t-shirt* rather than a collared shirt underneath. A well off person can afford clothes that fit, in my experience.

3. The Regional Vice President very specifically demonized salary (read "guaranteed pay") as being an unfair tool of corporate America used to 'keep people down' and praised straight commission (read "income dependent entirely upon uncontrollable variables") as the only way to get paid.

Three HUGE red flags there. Anybody with common sense and business management experience can see them for exactly what they are - indicators of a deliberately deceptive, ethically questionable, and economically unsound business model.

Finally, on the "Primerica is not a Pyramid Scheme..." front - the reps who have posted here are correct. It technically isn't a Pyramid Scheme, but ONLY because it doesn't require recruits to pay for PHYSICAL PRODUCTS (the key defining feature of a Pyramid Scheme). That said, Primerica DOES require recruits to pay for their training and certifications. This is not illegal, but all Primerica has done is tip-toe through a legal loophole and swap out the physical merchandise of your textbook Ponzi scheme for a SERVICE.

The framework of Ponzi's original marketing scam remains firmly in place at Primerica - they've simply traded in the traditional postal coupons for a legal alternative (a service, as opposed to a good). Otherwise, the structure of the original Ponzi scheme (i.e., recruit others to pay the training fees to recruit others to pay the training fees to recruit others to pay the training fees, ad infinitum) remains firmly intact at Primerica.

I got my call, so glad for this report. Thank you!

I'm so glad for this report... woke up to a message last evening (I work midnights), and it was too late to call so I googled. Thank you to all posters! You saved me a bunch of time!

INTERESTING

I have read every rebuttal in regards to Primerica since this on started in 2002. I am just got started with the company and will check in 3 motnhs to see if it has been worth my $199. If not I will stop. Making money is important to me but not as much as helping people look at there finacial situation.

It is interesting to see the number of negative responses people have about this company, and I have not not seen those up front as of yet. The only thing that bothers me is not knowing if I can succeed without trying. So if I make the $199 back it will be a successful venture for me.

RipOff Report, I Owe You 8-10 Hours A Week

As with many people on this blog, I'm ashamed to admit that I almost fell victim to the Primerica scheme as well. About a week ago I received a rather strange message in my voicemail, describing a great opportunity in securities and funds management. I thought, "Well, that sounds interesting. I don't have a finance background, but I've always wanted to learn a little more about personal finance." The message asked for me to respond via phone and set up a meeting time with my recruiter. I was off work that day and didn't have class either, "might as well check it out," I figured. So I called back and set up an appointment. After doing so, a number of red flags started waving (figuratively) in my head.

First off, I had never been involved with any company soliciting me having I not previously soliciting them. I gave them the benefit of the doubt though, namely because my interests were peaked by what the recruiter had to say, and I thought she said PSS Inc instead of PFS Inc. Next, the recruiter asked for my current background. This was a little surprising considering; MY RESUME had come across HER desk. I'm no savant of content formatting with regards to resumes, but I was quite confident I included my background, both professionally and educationally, in all resumes I distribute, it's kind of a strange habit of mine to tell people my background that qualifies me for each job I apply for. Lastly, I'm currently enrolled in a very technical (as technical as it can be for a student of psychology) terminal psychology degree program, I have no experience in personal finance. Again though, what the hell did I have to lose by attending this meeting.

$199 Apparently

Anything negative I was thinking about Primerica before the meeting (if you can call it that), was only confirmed after the session commenced. "We help people get out of debt," "We can make you independently wealthy," "We can teach you the assets needed and set you up to own your own business," I heard.

(My Inner Monologue) Great, I can help people and learn a little about personal finance while making money at the same time. What's wrong with that? Wait a second, why did the guy in front of me just get up and leave. This sound too good to be true? 8-10 hours a week and $2000, maybe if I'm Allen Iverson. Okay, this is a sham. I can't believe I wasted my day off.

It didn't help that the recruiter even pointed out that it sounded too good to be true.

That was ten minutes into the meeting. You can imagine how the other 45 minutes went...Yawn.

After the meeting was over, the recruiters went around the room asking everyone, openly, what their backgrounds were in. The 7 other people in the room had distinguished backgrounds ranging from waiter to bar tender to unemployed. When I responded with "I'm a graduate student," it was like I had just told all of them that they had won the lottery. Everyone was just staring at me, hanging on my every word. It was actually kind of flattering, until my better judgment snapped me back to reality and reminded me that was applying for a job with these other distinguished representatives from the food service industry. I know what all you PC a-holes are probably saying out there, "What, so you think you're better than them/me because you have an education?" Well,...yeah. I'm not saying that everyone without an education is inherently stupid, but if there was a definitively sound way to quantify intelligence (as IQ score is debateable) I think you would find educated individuals to have significantly higher intelligence...as proven by an independent measures t-test. I somehow doubt the lifelong whopper flopper really has the critical thinking skills to offer constructive, sound, financial advise. I know--call me a pessimist, but I have thick skin.

That said, one of the halfwits, and I use that term generously in this guy's case, made an interesting point. "If this helps people so much, why don't you guys advertise," he asked. The educated response from the Regional Vice President, the one with the quality Primerica finance training was, "You know what happens when you advertise right? The cost of your product goes up to offset the advertising cost. We want to keep our product affordable for families." Now, I'm no financial analyst, but isn't advertising done to bring IN more people and thus offset and even profit from the initial advertising expense. Good to know these "trained" "average Joes" are potentially handling your money.

Needless to say, I'd had enough by this point. Thanks but no thanks. Now I'm just trying to figure out exactly how they came across my name. So if anyone happens to know the name of the company or parent company that supplies this information (probably Citigroup, but I have no financial holdings with Citigroup or any of it's subsidiaries) I'd gladly appreciate it if you would post it on this blog.

And lastly, in homage to RipOff Report and its loyal followers, I will now devote the 8-10 hours of wasted time I would have spent with Primerica each week, reading this sight instead.

Hugs and Kisses,

Personal Experience with Misleading Practices

I was recently contacted by a representative for Primerica about a management oppurtunity. I set up an interview under the understanding that the representative was hiring RVPs (Regional Vice Presidents) in order to open some new offices. In essence, I was told that I would be interviewing for a management position.

At the interview, the truth came out. The rep was NOT hiring RVPs, he was recruiting for his workforce with the oppurtunity to become an RVP. This is all well and good, but I would have preferred to know that ahead of time. This was the first instance of misleading practices.

I filled out an application that included a list of references. I didn't give this a second thought until I discovered that my references were not being used to check my character and qualifications; rather, the rep was calling them to set up more interviews. This was the second case of misleading practices.

Finally, I attended a so-called "training meeting." No mention was made of what the company did, how to run an office, what types of financial services would be best for certain people, investments that would be beneficial, or any type of information that would be useful to somebody starting out in a business. Rather, it was a motivational gathering. People were brought up to say how happy they were to have this opportunity, how they were looking forward to making boatloads of money, and how they knew that their hard work would pay off. Again, this is all well and good, but why didn't the rep tell me what this meeting was really for? This was the final case of misleading practices.

This company may provide good opportunities for people, but I have to question why they have to mislead people to get them involved. I, for one, would be much more comfortable knowing EXACTLY what I was getting into rather than finding that everything I attended was not what I had been led to believe.

I will have no further dealings with Primerica.

Primerica not a Ponzi scheme

Primerica isn't a Ponzi scheme but it is just as cynical. When good ol' A.L. Williams (the founder)initially put this thing together all he was doing was figuring out a way to move insurance. He saw that at that time the average life insurance salesman's career consisted of selling 6-7 policies to family and friends and then he disappears from the business. A.L. borrowed from Amway and came up with a technique in which he could get some undereducated rubes to sell their 6-7 policies and give him ALL the commission. In the process the rube was convinced he would soon be a millionairre after he recruited an army of rubes to go out and do the same thing for him.

He concocted the "evil whole life salesman" as a demon.....(every cult needs one), proceeded to put together a sales track about how evil insurance companies (they are evil and easy target) are out to ripoff poor old average Joe. Primerica (which at that time was named Massachussetts Life and Indemnity Company)then sold Average Joe the most high priced term insurance you have ever seen. If you think Primerica term is uncompetetive now you should have seen the shlock they were hustling in 1980.

To make a long story short they have evolved very little since then. The major difference is that they were bought by Citigroup so now instead of being the little guy against the huge insurance companies they say "we are the largest company in the world". Other than that, same ol' story 30 years later, rubes selling uncompetetive products to other rubes while they dream of sipping lava flows in Bora Bora.

I just received the same recruiting call.

They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:

Their email: abc@123.com
Their name: Voice of Reason

Their relationship to the company: Consumer Suggestion

Rebuttal:
I just received the same recruiting call. Thanks to this exchange of information and the very poor representation made by those of you claiming to be part of PFS, I saved myself a lot of time. I also learned a significant amount about PFS (Which by the way is NOT "THE LARGEST" IFS company...that's their parent comapany).

One point I would like to make to those of you involved in recruting for this company. It's one thing to misrepresent your product, which in fact you are doing when you're approach is MLM, it's another thing to be unable to recognize that that is what you're doing. That's the sad part, and perhaps why you are unable to obtain a straight forward job helping others
financialy.

I was contacted by Primerica. Based on the information I collected here, I will certainly not attend the interview.

Thank you for all of your responses.

I am a senior at UW-Whitewater. I have my resume posted at my university's secure Career Services website (run by eRecruiting.com). This is how I was contacted.

In the phone call, there were some quirks I noticed. Among them are:

My caller ID noted that it was from a cell phone with a different area code than it should have been. An employee working for a subsidiary of Citigroup certainly should have had a landline and an extention number to contact with, especially as this is during normal business hours.

She would not tell me any specific position that was open. She would not tell me a specific time frame that was open.

She wanted my resume to have 6 "character" references, which is a lot. I can't imagine needing more than three, and many companies I've interviewed with don't even care about them.

Albeit uneasy, I agreed to an interview. The interview was scheduled to be held on the first business day after I was contacted, which is certainly odd. For normal interviews, both sides need time to prepare -- the interviewer needs to clear a schedule and the interviewee needs to research the company and prepare for an interview.

Based on the information I collected here, I will certainly not attend the interview. I assure you that even if I didn't read about them here, I would have laughed and left after hearing about the $199 application fee.

Run as fast as you can from Primerica

First of all I would like to address the fact that whenever you post your resume to a public site whether it be Monster or even a college site, any and just about all companies like Primamerica will try to solicit you. They know you are looking for employment, however, they do want money from you. I know this because I have been approached by this company several times. I did go to one of their meetings and felt presured by them to hand over $200.00 for training. I asked why would I have to pay $200.00 to them and was told it was for training to obtain my license to sell insurance and to be licensed for the securities and exhange commission.

I told them that I am not interested since I was looking for a job to work and not have to invest into a company. I also told them if I wanted to do something like I would have signed up to sell Amway or Avon products since I would have to invest money with those companies.

My advice to anyone would be to run as fast as possible from this company because they are a pyramid selling type of company. After all, why would a job seeker want to pay for a job, that is why they are looking to make money in the first place and not spend what they don't have.

I will site all lawsuits in my major report for all of you naysayers.

They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:

Their email: TheFraudChick@aol.com
Their name: The Fraud Chick

Their relationship to the company: Consumer Suggestion

Rebuttal:
I'm having an internal debate, but I think this string of shill rebuttals has set my resolve. In the next few weeks I intend to post a report about Primerica. In this report I will tell you all the REAL STORY. I want everyone to know that I have NO personal involvement with Primerica. I have no animus towards them nor am I a shill--so I hope you will find it objective.

I think you all will be surprised as to what I've found, for example:

Primerica is a pyramid style marketing scheme. Understand I don't state it's illegal, but it's marketing style is a pyramid.

Citigroup has been sued many times for questionable ventures. Primerica is one that is *currently* in question. There is no lawsuit for Primerica--yet.

Citigroup has paid millions of dollars in fines for unethical acts and business ventures.

I will site all lawsuits in my major report for all of you naysayers. I only ask that shills not attack those who have questions about Primerica. Who are you to attack those who have been harmed? It's their lost money not yours, and if they want to warn others so they won't lose money then let them.

Don't bother shilling this. Save it for my report.

The Fraud Chick

Another problem i have with primerica is that citigroup, its parent is chiefly recognised as a bank, or financial institution.

They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:

Their email: sic_mp@yahoo.com
Their name: edward

Their relationship to the company: Owner

Rebuttal:
Primerica meeting smells like Amway

I sat in on a Primerica meeting recently and took some fascinating notes (actual numbers, not fantastic mystical possibly drug induced magic projected numbers) Number of times the word "oppertunity" mentioned - 18 "Fantastic", "dynamic" or "amazing" mentioned - 20 "financially independent" - 8
"missed oppertunity" - 14 "make your money work for you" - 4
number of times "how banks rip you off" demonstrated - 6
number of times the above used hard figures - 0 number of times catch phrases or buzz words ("live the dream", "make your
money work for you", "financially independent",etc...)used - 16

They used the tried-and-true method of 'pitch and toss', which is after 3-5 minutes a presenter passes it on to another presenter. They reiterated the idea that the job you are at is "based on the position and not the person", dehumanising the way your boss views you.

And what the hell is with the rule of 72? is it me or is this the same math used to say the bush tax cut would preserve the surplus?

Another problem i have with primerica is that citigroup, its parent is chiefly recognised as a bank, or financial institution. Primerica recruiters constantly berate banks but glorify citigroup's size and its internal capital as its gauge of growth potential. (basically biting the hand that feeds)

About Attained Education and Primerica; Also, Why Primerica Itself is a Valuable Part of Citigroup

Wow! This is one long thread. If you have time, search this page for these posts: Darrick's from Texas; Garret in Colorado; and Moraine in Ohio. I loved these posts and as they provide balance in this forum. The one post you may want to compare mine with is Chris' in Las Vegas.

OK

I can see where the report's originator is coming from. If a person has higher education, more training or whatever, they should get paid more money. This is a fair way for our society to structure itself.

However, the Primerica opportunity is for all adults, regardless of their background. This is good because the path to success is not working for most people. In their lives, maybe their family couldn't afford to send them to college. Maybe they want to start over but don't want to spend a hundred grand to do it. However, they are willing to invest just as much work if not more.

Maybe they reached a glass ceiling in their profession and are disillusioned that the promise of hard work is not working out. Maybe they graduated college and are finding the job market impenetrable. Maybe they are housewives who are divorced and feel it's too late to go back to school or who find that the money they are earning in their new job is just not enough
to take care of their children.

Maybe they are free-spirited go-getters who hate the idea a boss who thinks that just because they pay them a salary, that they can dictate their lives. Maybe they are so beaten down by such a boss or office politics that they are crying out for a change.

Maybe they are people who find themselves wading in a sea of detractors--family or friends or strangers who tell them they won't amount to anything--but who want to dream again and one day see the promise of land someways off.

Maybe they are people who earn 70 to 100 grand but find the life of success elusive because of poor self image or because they are drowning in debt or other vices. Maybe, maybe, they are people who, for love of family, are willing to do anything to make sure that their children or spouse or parents or siblings will have a decent life. What successful people in Primerica have found is that life for their family had been
incredible.

But let's talk about these facts. Primerica is a division of Citigroup, which is a titan if you compare it to any company, period. For some reason this matters to people.

Citigroup and it's subsidiaries are separate corporations that are responsible for all the crap they get themselves into. A sister company's trouble's has little effect on Primerica when it comes to the balance sheet.

Take the fines that Smith Barney had to pay out a few years ago. Primerica is fortunate enough offer investments from SB and has seen growth in its investment business in spite of SB's troubles. In spite of CitiFinancial's troubles with ID theft, Primerica's loan business is on the up and up.

But, instead of revenue, how about public opinion. Let's talk about the the millions of clients that trust Primerica. We've paid out life benefits that mean family surviving a breadwinner's death will not have to scrap for cash, ever. Not just because of the billions of dollars in death benefits we've paid out, but also because of education we provide that helps people make good decisions with their money. Primerica has provided long-term care insurance to families so that a tragedy resulting in indefinite disabilty did not end up causing a family to struggle trying to pay for care of a loved one.

For those who are not clients or who are disgruntled former reps or who are burned former clients: Primerica is a valuable company to Citigroup. Traveler's is no longer a part of citigroup. Primerica, a former umbrella company of Traveler's, is.

Primerica leads the life insurance industry in licensed reps. It leads the securities industry in licensed reps. It's affiliate bank is the only one that'll go on record saying it wants families to get rid of it's fefinance loan ASAP. The affiliate bank, by the way, is not a bank.

As it is with a life, we must always take the good with the bad. Believe me, there is enough good in Primerica to cover a multitude of sins. Don't tell me that you haven't gone to a franchised establishment where the space was clean and service was excellent, but haven't been to another where there was a snotty rep and and the service was not what you're used to. The same goes with Primerica.

Let's not go on with the blanket conclusions of Primerica that are based on isolated incidents. Let our experiences and opinons be instructive, but not law. For many people, this Primerica thing is working, and that's because they are, too.

I WAS SO CLOSE TO BEING SCAMMED, got home and did a search for Primerica and I found this site. If they were a good reputable company they say who and what they're about ...they'd be up front right from the start

I went to a job agency to look for work of course some job agencies charge you a fee but no big deal.You get better leads. So anyway went in on my second day of looking through their postings. Well apparently the RVP had just put in his ad. The lady that I go through to set appt for jobs told me about this job and she told me it sounded like something I would do. I ask her about details of it . She told me that the RVP said it was a job that I can make $15 - $ 19 a hr and they do all the training. Right off the bat I thought that was cool .

I did ask if their was any selling involved and the job agency lady said that there wasn't. Of course she is only going by the info Primeria is giving her . Anywho I called the guy up and had a talk with him ..everything sounded professional.There was questions I wanted to ask but me looking for a job I didn't want to be too hasty.

So he set up an interveiw. Went in ,it went off like any other job interview. At the end of the interview I was asked to give atleast 3 references. Me having friends all over I didn't have that info on me at the time . So I went home and then called the RVP with my references.Anyway he told me he would check out my references and give me a call back. Well he did the next day and asked me to come to a meeting Thursday nite and I'll get all my info I need.

Well went and didn't get what info I felt I needed . Like what will I be doin ..pay scale ..how long is training and is it paid training.

The RVP told me to come to the orientation Sat morning and everything would be disscussed. So I thought ok I'll give this company the benefit of my doubt.Mind ya that I held off looking for other places to apply for work cause I thought I had one.

Well got up and went. While I was sitting there my gut was talking to me but I didn't listen to it. After about 2 hrs of preaching. They actually started talking about what u would be doin. Well I had ?'s and my RVP told me I would do fine.

Went acros the street and got a money order.. When I left from there I felt not very good. The meeting kept replaying in my head and my gut was talking louder.

Later that night got home and did a search for Primerica and I found this site..boy did I feel cheated..I want a job that paid an hrly wage not a dang commission job..if I wanted that I would have went to college or been a car saleswoman..nothing against car salemans..we need them but not my preference.

Anyway I called the RVP guy back and got all my $199 back. I was ticked off cause this company isn't honest that they claim to be..if they were ,they wouldn't keep us in the dark til the last minute.

If they were a good reputable company they say who and what they're about ...they'd be up front right from the start ..not no wishy washy crap and go to meetings and the crap they say..to me I wasted a week of job hunting , my time ,and gas going to them preaching ceremonies. I did go into the job agency and report them. Cause they did tell them that a person would make $15-$19 an hr and there was NO SELLING. Well that turned out to be a LIE...I might not have a degree but the last time I heard that commission is based on if you sell anything. So online jobs sites that has your resume on file aren't the only place they go...they have hit the upscale job agencies.

Greetings from a UW-Whitewater graduate ..put my resume on Monster.com, after being downsized from my former place of employment. A few weeks later I received a phone call from a Primerica

I too was contacted by Primerica, though it was quite awhile ago. I had put my resume on Monster.com, after being downsized from my former place of employment. A few weeks later I received a phone call from a Primerica representative. He said my name was given to him as someone he should "definitely talk to". When I questioned who gave him my name, he refused to tell me, stating it was "confidential" (later I found out they most likely got my name off Monster). I also asked several questions about the position which were met only with "you have to come to the interview to find out." I tentatively scheduled an "interview", but was very skeptical about what I was getting into.

The next morning I spoke to a friend of mine about this experience. She gave me the scoop on what this company was REALLY about. Apparently a friend of hers was also contacted by Primerica, given vague answers about what the "job" entailed, and went to the meeting anyways. Needless to say, I didn't go to the "interview" after hearing what it was.

Since then I have began working on an MBA at another UW school (Which, by the way, my "J.O.B." is paying for), and I see Primerica flyers all over the place in various builidngs. Recruitment is a never-ending process, apparently.

As the original poster said, for some, Primerica may be their thing. But I for one question the credibility of any company that cannot be straightforward right from the get go.

Rebutting Jesse (Glenwood) you must have overlooked this

Jesse, while you were reading this entire thread, you must have overlooked this from the main page:

"Victim of a consumer Rip-off? Want justice? Rip-off Report™ is a worldwide consumer reporting Website & Publication, by consumers, for consumers, to file & document complaints about companies or individuals who ripoff consumers."

So shiller how are you helping the victims of Crimerica?

Quoting:

"However, the Primerica opportunity is for all adults, regardless of their background." In other words if you have a pulse.

Let's look at the "opportunity" more closely. Here are the facts:

(1) The average Primerican from over 100,000 agents makes less than $6,000 a year. This money
is before deducting chargebacks (estimated at 50%
based on policy cancellations) and business expenses. Also chargebacks can happen anytime, even after you leave the company (check your IBA contract).

(2) But it's not simply about the money. Everybody
knows you should treat the customer right. What Crimerica does is to sell an admittedly expensive
term policy which gives you no advantage over competitors. You should fix up your customer proper so that he/she can retire in financial comfort

(3) Many think that you still have an opportunity for the big money. It follows then that there'd be officers and executives of Crimerica who came up through the ranks starting out as agents. Let's see a list of 12 then who started out that way
(Crimerica has been around for 20 years, there should be a list that size by now). If that list doesn't exist, that says gobs about the so-called opportunity.

Jesse, why not make up a pamphlet based on the information I just put forth and distribute them at the meetings. It would surely liven up those meetings that you find so boring.

Obviously, you weren't having any luck with anything else

They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:

Their email: TrishMcD@aol.com
Their name: Patricia

Their relationship to the company: Owner

Rebuttal:
Well,there must be a reason why you were sitting in that chair. Obviously, you weren't having any luck with anything else "going on" in your life. If all you have to do is sit around knocking other companies, you need to get a life. At least us at Primerica have better things to do like helping people climb out of debt, and become financially independent. Has anywhere
you ever worked help make a difference, an impact on peoples lives? This world is in a hurt of trouble as far as people being in debt and not financially secure.....perhaps you could look at the "big picture", instead of worrying about people saying "Amen". ....By the way WE ARE the largest financial services company in the WORLD, we have over a trillion
in assets, does that sound like a cult to you???

Just to clear a few things up.

Jesse, while you were reading this entire thread, you must have overlooked this from the main page:

"Victim of a consumer Rip-off? Want justice? Rip-off Report™ is a worldwide consumer reporting Website & Publication, by consumers, for consumers, to file & document complaints about companies or individuals who ripoff consumers."

So shiller how are you helping the victims of Crimerica?

first off, that seems a little childish to me, but lets move forward.....

Quoting:

"However, the Primerica opportunity is for all adults, regardless of their background." In other words if you have a pulse.

Actually, its more for anyone who is interested in possibly looking at a different career provided they meet the criteria. Nothing works for EVERYONE. It was a general statement man. Even someone is allergic to sunlight....sheesh.

Let's look at the "opportunity" more closely. Here are the facts:

(1) The average Primerican from over 100,000 agents makes less than $6,000 a year. This money
is before deducting chargebacks (estimated at 50%
based on policy cancellations) [who's estimates???] and business expenses[such as? my expensive after 5 months have included gas and an occassional dinner with clients. maybe even the purchase of a new necktie or two. BTW, they're ALL TAX WRITE OFFS....] Also chargebacks can happen anytime, even after you leave the company (check your IBA contract).

(1a)The interesting thing is that MOST of our representitives are PART TIME. This is a great benefit to lots of our reps for various reasons (ie you may only make $6,000 your first year, you don't know enough to jump right in and become successful, you have bills that require you to work full time until your Primerica Income superceeds your full time earnings, it actually requires a measure of EFFORT and FAITH in yourself, etc.) Aside from that, ANY agent can get a charge back in ANY company. Does this make Primerica "the devil" because we have to operate under many of the same rules as you? lol, nice try.

(2) But it's not simply about the money. Everybody
knows you should treat the customer right. What Crimerica does is to sell an admittedly expensive
term policy which gives you no advantage over competitors. You should fix up your customer proper so that he/she can retire in financial comfort.

(2A)?..... Are you serious? Admittedly expensive Term Policy? lol. wow. ok. Show me ONE Whole life policy that has a lower or even equal premium to a Term policy written on a client at the same time with the same face ammount. You really have got to be kidding me. Primerica was founded on the Philosophy that for the vast majority of middle America "Buy term and invest the difference" is a far superior means of reaching their financial goals than any Cash Value Policy. Aside from that, show me 1 major consumer financial publication that says that buy term and invest the difference is NOT a better choice that a Cash Value policy in most cases. I'm sure that Kiplingers, Smart Money, Success, The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, And Money Magazine are ALL wrong because YOU say so. Feel free to google us.........lol....try again pal.....

(3) Many think that you still have an opportunity for the big money. It follows then that there'd be officers and executives of Crimerica who came up through the ranks starting out as agents. Let's see a list of 12 then who started out that way
(Crimerica has been around for 20 years, there should be a list that size by now). If that list doesn't exist, that says gobs about the so-called opportunity.

(3a)Well, I've personally only been in the business for about 5 months, but I can name about 9 multi-millionaires that I PERSONALLY know and that I can attest to having started out as reps. No, this isn't just something I read in a publication. These are facts that I found while talking to them, face to face.

Tom Aminikharazi -CA

George Vurdogo - CA

Joseph Mikolizi -CA
Hector La Marke - CA

Joseph Cross - CA

Dale Carnegie - CA
Dean Web - UT
Jeff Castolene
Jim Bealune - Canada
Daniel Alanzo - CA (featured on the cover of SUCCESS Magazine in an issue that was dedicated TOTALLY to Primerica. The July 2005 issue. How many issues have they dedicated TOTALLY to YOUR company Stu?......"0"? yeah... thought so....) Oooops. Looks like that's 10. I'll let you know when I meet 2 more.

Jesse, why not make up a pamphlet based on the information I just put forth and distribute them at the meetings. It would surely liven up those meetings that you find so boring.

Stuart - North Brunswick, New Jersey
(A very misinformed gentleman)

PFS Investments

rebuttal to last post by Stuart - I am in no way affiliated with Primerica. I am just offering my opinion.

Quoting: ""Victim of a consumer Rip-off? Want justice? Rip-off Report™ is a worldwide consumer reporting Website & Publication, by consumers, for consumers, to file & document complaints about companies or individuals who ripoff consumers."

How are they ripping off consumers?

This type of reasoning can be analogous to saying that Store A ripped me off because I later found out that I could have purchased it cheaper, or received better service from store B. Not every company is going to have the benefit of offering the number one product or service. However, there are a good number of companies which still do well even though they may be 2nd or 3rd best.

Quoting:
"So shiller how are you helping the victims of Crimerica? "

Are they in fact victims, or are they making themselves out to be victims? I think in most cases the later applies. I think if you actually sat down and really reasoned their story out, logically they would not be a victim. Just disgruntled over their experience. I don't know any company that does not have disgruntled people saying bad things about them.

"Quoting:
"However, the Primerica opportunity is for all adults, regardless of their background." In other words if you have a pulse."

The last I checked, a great number of business owners do not even have a college degree, and are making significantly more income than most people with college degrees. So yes, if you have a pulse, you are still qualified to build a company or organization. Don't ever let anyone tell you otherwise. A company or corporation will only pay you for the position. I'm not saying do not get a college education. Just don't rely on it making you anything over six figures, which truthfully most college graduates don't make. I used to be an engineer for 7 years, and was never paid what I felt I was worth. Also, I worked with phd's (poor hungry doctors) who barely broke six figures if that. How I know, I used to interview them for available positions in our department. Let's just say this. It did not take me long to decide to start my own business, and leave the corporate world in a heartbeat. I did catch alot of nay-sayers when doing so, but I'm glad I did it. My income at my Hobby Shop now puts all of the nay-sayers' incomes to shame. However, I still believe in jobs, they do provide some sort of secure income, and benefits. It is also fine for someone to feel content with a mediocre salary. To each his own. My explanation above only really applies to those looking for more income than what is usually available from a traditional job.

Quoting:
"Let's look at the "opportunity" more closely. Here are the facts:

(1) The average Primerican from over 100,000 agents makes less than $6,000 a year. This money
is before deducting chargebacks (estimated at 50%
based on policy cancellations) and business expenses. Also chargebacks can happen anytime, even after you leave the company (check your IBA contract)."

Regardless of the facts, everyone knows that building a true business is hard, and that not everyone can do it. You can apply the same scenario to many other traditional businesses. Let's take real estate for instance. My wife works in an office where a good number of the agents are having to hold another job to make ends meet. Only a handful of the agents in the office are atually top producers. Does this mean we should discourage people from getting into real estate?

Quoting:
"(2) But it's not simply about the money. Everybody
knows you should treat the customer right. What Crimerica does is to sell an admittedly expensive
term policy which gives you no advantage over competitors. You should fix up your customer proper so that he/she can retire in financial comfort"

Again, the same analogy that I mentioned above about store A and store B. The bottom line is Primerica offers a service which people are benefiting from, even though there may be other better policies available on the market. Analogy: There are still people shopping at Target even though they might find a better deal at Wal-Mart.

Quote:
"(3) Many think that you still have an opportunity for the big money. It follows then that there'd be officers and executives of Crimerica who came up through the ranks starting out as agents. Let's see a list of 12 then who started out that way
(Crimerica has been around for 20 years, there should be a list that size by now). If that list doesn't exist, that says gobs about the so-called opportunity."

Anaologous to working for a corporation. There are only a handful of the big money making executives, and upward mobility to their positions could be many, many years out, if the position even becomes available. Should we discourage someone from pursuing those positions? I think not. A true winner will work his way up.

If there is a fraction of a chance that someone can make it big in Primerica, then technically it is still an opportunity. Unless you can say that there is a 0% chance for someone to make it big, then you cannot discount this opportunity. The biggest hurdle to build any business is human nature itself. Some examples are laziness, lack of belief, procrastination, pessimism, etc. Focusing on all the negatives instead of the positives. In a way I'm glad that only a minute part of the population are able to build a business. That just means less competition for us business minded people.

Quote:
"Jesse, why not make up a pamphlet based on the information I just put forth and distribute them at the meetings. It would surely liven up those meetings that you find so boring."

That's funny, because most of the people who are building a business or organization, usually already know what they are up against. They know it's hard, yet they stick with it. That is why in the end they most likely won't be in the percentile that only makes the $6000 a year that you quoted. I'm sure most will agree, that all you need is a proven vehicle which works, no matter how hard it is, dedicate yourself to it, and you will eventually win. It is just a numbers game.

To close this rebuttal, I would like to say that a good number of my personal friends and acquaintances are self-employed, or business owners. I find that most business owners looked at the opportunity, and took it instead of focusing their energy on discounting it. I find that alot of stuff written on these internet forums, reports, blogs etc. are basically like a virtual public restroom wall. Alot of un-productive negative advice.

How about this as a bottom line: If it is a legal legitimate business, a vehicle for making income, very little risk, then why not? Why should you listen to someone who is not going to pay your bills.

Rebutting D (Victorville)

Quoting:

"first off, that seems a little childish to me, but lets move forward....." Something a shiller would say.

"Aside from that, ANY agent can get a charge back in ANY company." Howeever Crimerica appears to be the ONLY company that has no time period for charging you back, even when you leave the company.

"Are you serious? Admittedly expensive Term Policy? lol. wow. ok." Why act so surprised? This is based on Crimerica's own metamorphosis website (which was comparing their term policy against other term policies).

"Well, I've personally only been in the business for about 5 months, but I can name about 9 multi-millionaires that I PERSONALLY know and that I can attest to having started out as reps." Are these Crimerica reps? (one in particular, Dale Carnegie, didn't he write a book titled, "How To Win Friends & Influence People", did he ever work at Crimerica?)

So D from Victorville. I don't see titles next to the ten names you brought up. Which means I must issue the challenge again. Name 12 officers or executives from Crimerica who started off as agents.

D in Victorville says.. attempting to defend the indefensible 'Wow, show me a single whole life policy that has a lower premium than Primerica term

D in Victorville says in attempting to defend the indefensible 'Wow, show me a single whole life policy that has a lower premium than Primerica term". First of all, I'd like to counter by saying show me one Motorhome thats as low in price as my Dodge Neon.

The point is Primerica is expensive term. If you have convinced me a Dodge Neon is the best car for me own then don't charge me 20% more for that car than the Dodge Neon dealer up the street.

What I can do is tell you I can sell a 45 year old non-smoking woman a 30 year term policy that will return all her premiums at age 75 for $565 a year compared to $559 for straight 30 year term with primerica. What rate of return would you have to earn on that $6 a year difference to return $11,300 to her at age 75?

D in Victorville says the average primerica rep makes $500-6000 a year working part-time. Fine. What I am saying is that same rep could have earned twice that much in the same amount of hours selling term insurance and loans that are less expensive for the consumer.

As far as your list of millionairres you know "personally" that started out as reps.......GOLLY GEEE...what a coincidence. These are the same people that have full color pictures on primerica's website. In 5 months you've gotten to know them all personally????? WOW!!! You must be a real mingler.

Finally D in Victorville....I agree with primerica that term insurance is the best solution for MOST people. I've been in the biz for about 30 years and 90-95% of the policies I have sold are term. However, when I sell a term policy I go out and find the best term for that client. Each one has different features, like convertibility or Return of Premium riders or a health condition that limits the number of companies that will take them. I don't try to talk them into an overpriced term by telling them "MY COMPANY HAS BEEN ON A MAGAZINE COVER". By doing so I make more money than I would have at primerica and my client pays far less than he would have at primerica.

Scam... It really does seem like a scam, if they would call some one with out even a high school diploma.

Friday afternoon i got a phone call from primerica asking me to come in for a "meeting" with this person i was talking to on the phone, he told me i might want to come a bit early so his wife and he could show me around, this meeting was at 9 am, on a Saturdau, which seemed odd. When I told him i was 9 months pregnant and expecting any day now his response was "oh, well that dont discourage me at all." That seemed a bit odd, also, but he said I could work from home...

My husband had to be at work at 9 so i dropped him off early and got there about 8:30. When I got there I went in this nice building with these wealthy looking people standing around talking, I was greeted by a very cherry lady behind a desk and she asked who invited me and asked me to sighn in, I did, she told me would be there in a few miniutes, so i followed another lady back in to a small room where a group of a 15 people were go to all meet, let me remind you (I'll call him Mr.V) Mr. V told me to come early still wasn't there. The whole hour and 15 min my huge 9 month pregnant body sat in that small crowded room, I only meet Mr. V and his wife ONE time and i was never showed any thing, except that they wanted $199 for a FBI back ground check, licence and something else but i cant remember..I think it could have been for classes.

At the end of the meeting I was invited back and gave an application...that also seemed odd. No one ever asked about my education. The lady from the meeting had said that the work they do was so easy, an eighth grader could do it. I would really like to know why they called me out of the blue to come in...I know they didn't get my resume from a job posting web site simply because I didn't even finish high school, so I dont have a resume.

It really does seem like a scam, if they would call some one with out even a high school diploma.

But what is Primerica getting out of it, besides someone to sell their product. Is that what this "scam" is all about?

Primerica may be a lot of things, but it is NOT a rip-off.

Jay,
I read (and was amused by) your attempt to demonstrate that you can articulate arguments using logic. I was astounded that in various parts of this thread which you appear to have initiated, you admit ignorance of some of the basic structual components of Primerica, i.e., "what are advances and what are earns?"

Let me respond to some of your ranting by making an observation that others have already hinted at: You apparently have a vendetta against this company for some as yet unexpressed reason. Maybe you tried to work here and failed. Maybe a successful RVP stole your girlfriend. Maybe you are being paid by a competing insurance, investment or lending firm to assail PFS. Whatever the case, it is apparent that you have WAY too much time on your hands and your hatred of this firm is clear, even though the reasons behind that disdain are not.

Let me expose, for anyone who has taken the time to read all the way down to my missive, the underlying flaw in your "attempt" at logically disecting Primerica Financial Services. You rail against the total amount of money the company pays out to its field force (approx 611 million in 2005) by pointing out that all of that money is disproportionately paid to 5% or so of the top earners in the firm. That figure is not exactly accurate, but your point was that since PFS has 100K+ reps, the average being paid to the lowly Representatives is only about 5K each, which is a ridiculously small amount to be paid for their efforts.

What everyone who read your blather needs to understand is that about 85% of the PFS field force is part-time (by their own choice) and that the average part-timer spends about 13.5 hours PER MONTH (also their choice) working this business. If they were working PFS like a traditional employment position and devoting 40 hours+ per week to it, then your point would be absolutely valid. However, according to the Census Bureau, the average part-time position in the USA paid 8.02 per hour in 2005 and the average traditional part-time position involved just over 20 hours of work per week. Since you seem to appreciate math and economics, you will be able to compute that the average return on that investment of time is an income that translates to an extra $8,300.00 per year (rounded). Given that our Reps, on average, invest far less than half of that amount of time for about 64% of the compensation, I'd hardly say PFS is a rip-off.

No one in this company is encouraged or knowingly allowed to represent to anyone else that everyone who joins our firm will become an RVP. In fact, Primerica publicizes the fact that only 3-4% of all Representatives will ultimately qualify to become an RVP, although technically, any of them could. The firm knows that most people who join here, and who ultimately become licensed, will work part-time and will always be part-time. That is strictly the choice of those who plunk down their registration fee and decide to associate with PFS.

We also recognize that a significant number of people who join will quit within a relatively short period of time, without ever earning a dime. The exact same statements could be made, accurately, about the real estate industry, but you don't seem to have a problem with any of the firms in that area. You have a right to your opinion about PFS or any other topic, but if you insist on making those public, at least have the honor and decency not to speak out about things you admittedly have only marginal understanding about.

Response to Kitka's "Exploitation is a Rip-Off"

Skull Pilot, I must respectfully disagree with your logic. While few would disagree with you that it would be unfair for an upline trainer to "steal" a trainee's warm market and thus deprive them of hundreds of dollars in compensation, that is not what happens. If it did, this company would have imploded shortly after it was founded in 1977. It would have been hit with lawsuits from former Representatives, multiple State Attorneys General, the Federal Trade Commission, and countless others. Yet, that has not happened. The reason is that trainers take trainees out to a handful of people within their warm market because that is where the appointment is easiest to set and because it allows the trainee to see success and to see someone he/she cares about helped early on.

I have trained hundreds of new people, and I've never had anyone leave a training appointment and say, "What the H#$L did you just do to my friend/family?" In most cases, we helped those people replace a more expensive life insurance policy with a less expensive one that offered more coverage and thus, greater value. We helped people who thought they were doing the right thing by saving money at their local bank or credit union recognize that they were never going to amass any real wealth by doing that start investing in mutual funds. And, in some cases, we refinanced mortgages, paying off all credit cards and car payments, etc. and freeing up badly needed cash and teaching the clients how to pay off their new loan sooner so that they could be out of debt completely many years sooner. Just so you know, we also allowed the trainee to participate in those loan transactions, where they were essentially paid for observating what we did. If that is a rip-off, there are a number of readers of this thread who will be lining up to get in on that kind of an opportunity.

As for the replacement, RVPs lose their overrides on a person once he/she qualifies to be an RVP themselves. If it were not for replacement, RVPs would have no incentive (see Real Estate Brokers) to EVER develop and promote people to that position. The replacement policy is not perfect, but it is a realistic and accepted part of being promoted to RVP and its attendant benefits.

I don't want to sound critical of you personally, because I don't know you. However, I can and am targeting your logic because it just doesn't hold any water.

For anyone else who reads my note here, try to remember one thing that almost all of the negative commentary overlooks...PFS is not as has never offered an "employment" opportunity, i.e. job...to ANY Associate. PFS IS A BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY, NOT A JOB. People who criticize the company on this site, either on purpose or through ignorance, ignore that fact. OF COURSE it should raise a red flag if someone contacts you for a JOB and ignores your past experience or skill set. OF COURSE it should raise a red flag if you are asked to pay a fee to get a "job"...although I recently interviewed a security guard who had to pay almost $2,000 for his uniform, weapon and weapon certification just to land a job that is paying him $10.75 an hour. I have since learned that is a common practice for security guards.

Listen, I can understand why people get upset when they think they are being asked to interview for a "job" and find out that they are being encouraged to consider going into business for themselves instead. Some people are desperate for money and it is wrong to take advantage of someone like that when an opportunity is misrepresented as a job. In fact, this firm will terminate anyone who is caught doing that and there are regular compliance training meetings and bulletins that expressly prohibit people from even implying that what Primerica offers is traditional employment.

That said, if you are ever contacted by anyone from Primerica and invited to go in to see what they have to offer, I encourage you to go...unless you are totally happy doing what you are doing now. But know in advance what the company offers and what it does not. For the people who choose to affiliate with the firm, they have an opportunity to build a business. There will be no salary, no health benefits, and no paid sick days...at least not in the traditional sense. However, there WILL be the opportunity, starting on a part-time basis and with no real financial risk, to become your own boss, work your own hours, have others working with/for you without having to maintain huge inventories of products, payroll, and paying for things like unemployment insurance, etc.

If stacked against a job, Primerica would definitely come up short for someone who just wants a job. If you want to become an entrepreneur, however, few opportunities offer the benefits, the income potential and the personal rewards that come with knowing you have helped people in a very meaningful way.

The stupidity exhibited by some people who brag that they "saved themselves" from the torture, financial and physical abuse, fraud, rape and murder that they almost got sucked up into had they gone to a Primerica office to explore that opportunity make me almost want to yak. If you don't ever want to be a business person, then don't go to companies offering a business opportunity and expect them to offer you a job. If you do that, you have no one to blame save yourself for that ignorance.

Back to you Stuart

Quoting:

"first off, that seems a little childish to me, but lets move forward....." Something a shiller would say. ONCE AGAIN, VERY GROWN UP. THANKS FOR PROVING MY POINT BUDDY

"Aside from that, ANY agent can get a charge back in ANY company." Howeever Crimerica appears to be the ONLY company that has no time period for charging you back, even when you leave the company. REALLY NOW? SEEING AS HOW WE HAVE 56 PAY PERIODS PER MONTH, OUR PAY SCALE BREAKS DOWN A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT THAN THE AVERAGE COMPANY WICH YOU SEEM TO BE COMPARING US TO. ASIDE FROM THAT, IT DOES TAKE 7-10 DAYS FOR A CHARGEBACK TO PROCESS. AND THE CHARGE BACK COMES IN LINE WITH THE CANCELLATION OF THE POLICY. ARE THE PEOPLE IN PERSONELL SUPPOSED TO READ A CRYSTAL BALL AND PREDICT WHEN THE CUSTOMER WILL CHANGE THEIR POLICY? GOOD JOB STU. WELL THOUGHT OUT. CHECK YOUR FACTS AGAIN CAPTAIN....

"Are you serious? Admittedly expensive Term Policy? lol. wow. ok." Why act so surprised? This is based on Crimerica's own metamorphosis website (which was comparing their term policy against other term policies). FIRST AND FOREMOST, MY COMPARISON WAS BETWEEN TERM AND WHOLE LIFE. SECONDLY, I NEVER PROMISED THAT WE WERE THE CHEAPEST. NEITHER DID MY COMPANY. WE HAVE COMPETITIVE RATES AND OUTSTANDING CUSTOMER SERVICE. OUR AVERAGE CLAIM IS PAID WITHIN THE FIRST 10-15 DAYS. MOST COMPANYS TAKE 21-30. LOL. NICE TRY AGAIN. IF YOUR GOING TO REFUTE SOMETHING I SAID, MAKE SURE IT IS INFACT SOMETHING I SAID.

"Well, I've personally only been in the business for about 5 months, but I can name about 9 multi-millionaires that I PERSONALLY know and that I can attest to having started out as reps." Are these Crimerica reps? NO, THEY'RE PRIMERICA REPS. LOL.(one in particular, Dale Carnegie, didn't he write a book titled, "How To Win Friends & Influence People", did he ever work at Crimerica?)DON'T ASK MY WHY HIS PARENTS NAMED HIM THAT. FEEL FREE TO LOOK FOR HIS OFFICE. IT JUST SO HAPPENS I WENT TO HIGHSCHOOL WITH A GUY WHO HAPPENED TO BE NAMED MICHEAL JACKSON. THAT DOESN'T MEAN HE WAS THE KING OF POP AND LIVED ON NEVERLAND RANCH. YOU GOTTA DO BETTER THAN THAT STEWY BOY.....

So D from Victorville. I don't see titles next to the ten names you brought up. Which means I must issue the challenge again. Name 12 officers or executives from Crimerica who started off as agents. I LISTED THE PEOPLE I KNOW. THEY RANGE FROM RVP TO SNSD. IF YOU WANT, I'M SURE I CAN PRODUCE ALOT MORE THAN 12. ON THE OTHER HAND, SHOW ME A LIST OF 8 PEOPLE AT YOUR COMPANY THAT YOU HAVE PERSONALLY MET THAT ARE WORTH MORE THAN 2 MILLION. EVERY PERSON I NAMED HAS ATLEAST THAT MUCH. I DON'T FEEL A NEED TO TAKE IT BEYOND THAT.

And now for you Leroy...

D in Victorville says in attempting to defend the indefensible 'Wow, show me a single whole life policy that has a lower premium than Primerica term". First of all, I'd like to counter by saying show me one Motorhome thats as low in price as my Dodge Neon.? WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THE PRICE OF RICE IN CHINA? THE COMPARISON WAS BETWEEN WHOLE LIFE, WICH EVERY MAJOR FINANCIAL PUBLICATION HAS AGREED TO BE A RIPOFF, AND TERM, WICH IS GENERALLY THE BEST OPTION FOR THE VAST MAJORITY OF AMERICANS. NICE TRY AT GUN-DECKING "LEROY"

The point is Primerica is expensive term. If you have convinced me a Dodge Neon is the best car for me own then don't charge me 20% more for that car than the Dodge Neon dealer up the street. FIRST OFF, I'VE READ SOME OF YOUR OTHER MISINFORMED QUOTES. I'M ONLY REPLYING TO YOU TO INFORM YOU THAT I CAN ALREADY TELL HOW FAR OFF BASE YOU ARE FROM THE TRUTH. SECONDLY, IF WE'RE SO HEAVILY OVERPRICED, WHY DO WE STILL WRITE MORE POLICIES THAN ANY OTHER INSURANCE COMPANY? I GUESS SERVICE MEANS NOTHING. ASIDE FROM THAT, 20% IS INSANELY FAR FROM TRUE. ONCE AGAIN L, YOU'RE WRONG. BTW, SOMETIMES.........WE ARE CHEAPER...LOL......

What I can do is tell you I can sell a 45 year old non-smoking woman a 30 year term policy that will return all her premiums at age 75 for $565 a year compared to $559 for straight 30 year term with primerica. What rate of return would you have to earn on that $6 a year difference to return $11,300 to her at age 75? AND THAT'S ALL YOU'LL DO LEROY. SELL SOME INSURANCE AND LEAVE. AM I SUPPOSED TO BE IMPRESSED BY 11K? I,ON THE OTHER HAND, LOOK AT HER ENTIRE FINANCIAL POSITION AND COME UP WITH A DEFINED PLAN THAT WILL GET HER OUT OF DEBT, PAY OFF HER HOUSE, SEND HER KIDS TO COLLEGE, AND GET HER A HEALTHY RETIRMENT FUND FAR SOONER THAT THE AGE OF 75. BTW, WHAT WAS THE FACE AMMOUNT? 200K BY MY CALCULATIONS. WITH A FEW OTHER FIGURES I RAN WITH A TYPICAL SCENARIO, BY AGE 75 ON MY PLAN, SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN COMPLETELY OUT OF DEBT FOR 15 YEARS AND HAVE $732,331.24 TO RETIRE ON. NOW LEROY, IS THAT BETTER THAN $11,300??

D in Victorville says the average primerica rep makes $500-6000 a year working part-time. Fine. What I am saying is that same rep could have earned twice that much in the same amount of hours selling term insurance and loans that are less expensive for the consumer. WITH WHO'S COMPANY? ASIDE FROM THAT, THAT'S JUST INSURANCE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. LET'S NOT FORGET THAT WE ALSO DO HOME MORTGAGES AND SECURITIES. EITHER THAT SLIPPED YOUR MIND OR YOU DIDN'T KNOW, RIGHT? LOL. THANKS LEROY.....

As far as your list of millionairres you know "personally" that started out as reps.......GOLLY GEEE...what a coincidence. These are the same people that have full color pictures on primerica's website. In 5 months you've gotten to know them all personally????? WOW!!! You must be a real mingler. AS A MATTER OF FACT, I AM. WHEN YOUR COMPANY IS CONSTANTLY HELPING YOU IMPROVE BY INTRODUCING YOU TO THE PEOPLE THAT ARE IN THE POSITION YOU STRIVE TO REACH, YOU CAN BECOME A HECK OF A MINGLER TOO LEROY. BTW, IF YOU WERE A MULTI MILLION DOLLAR BUSINESS OWNER, AND YOUR COMPANY ACTUALLY GIVES YOU LITTERATURE ON THE BEST WAY TO PRAISE AND RECOGNIZE PEOPLE THAT DO WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO, HAVING YOUR PICTURE ON A COMPANY WEBSITE DOESN'T SEEM LIKE THAT BIG A DEAL........OH YEAH, WHERE'S YOUR PICTURE??? LOL

Finally D in Victorville....I agree with primerica that term insurance is the best solution for MOST people. FINNALY....LOL.. I've been in the biz for about 30 years and 90-95% of the policies I have sold are term. WOW, SO YOU'RE ONLY 5-10% HYPOCRIT. THAT BUILDS CREDIBILITY... However, when I sell a term policy I go out and find the best term for that client. ARE YOU A BROKER OR ANGENT? I'M AN AGENT FOR PRIMERICA, THUS I ONLY SELL THEIR PRODUCTS. DOESN'T MEAN I'LL SLIT MY WRISTS OR THREATEN TO KILL SOMEONE IF THEY HAVE A BETTER PRICE WITH THE PEOPLE THEY ARE CURRENTLY WITH. MOVING ON... Each one has different features, like convertibility WICH IS FOR WHOLE TO TERM or Return of Premium riders or a health condition that limits the number of companies that will take them. I don't try to talk them into an overpriced term by telling them "MY COMPANY HAS BEEN ON A MAGAZINE COVER". LET ME ASK YOU THIS. HAS YOUR COMPANY HAD AN ISSUE DEDICATED TO THEM? IF SO, WHAT DID THEY SAY IN SAID ARTICLE? AS A MATTER OF FACT, WHAT COMPANY DO YOU REPRESENT LEROY? I'D LOVE TO LOOK YOU UP AND COMPARE APPLES TO APPLES. YOU KNOW WHERE I STAND..... I CAN'T SAY THE SAME ABOUT YOU. THAT SEEMS A BIT CURIOUS TO ME. By doing so I make more money than I would have at primerica and my client pays far less than he would have at primerica. BEING AS THAT YOU HAVE YET TO DISCLOSE ANYTHING ABOUT YOUR COMPANY OTHER THAN THE "GHOST FIGURES" THAT YOUR POST FROM THE SHADOWS, FEEL FREE TO PROVE ME WRONG AND MAKE MY "INDEFENSIBLE" COMPANY EAT ITS OWN WORDS....

Leroy - SLINGING MUD FROM THE SHADOWS IN Tulare,

Exploitation is a rip off

I have to disagree with you Ron.

PFS has many flaws and if you add them all up, I think you can come to the conclusion that PFS can be called a rip off.

First, let's talk about the procedures a rep uses.

A rep will recruit an unlicensed person and then proceed to sell to everyone the new guy knows before the new guy is licensed. The new guy just got swindled out of at least 6-10 commission checks and possibly many more. Add to that the new unlicensed guy recruits someone and his up line sells as much as he can to all the new recruit's warm markets effectively freezing the original new recruit out of even more commissions. Did the new guy get ripped off since he supplied all the new clients for his up line and got paid nothing?

And then figure in that a new licensed rep starts out at a disgustingly low commission of 25% and you could argue that he is being exploited. If a new rep is direct to an RVP and the new guy gets his license and goes out and sells $2500 in commissionable premium (not all the premium collected is counted towards commissions) in his first month after he gets his license, he'll earn a whopping $625 while his up line earns $1875 for doing nothing. Now I don't have a problem with overrides, but the guy doing the work should get the lion's share of the commission check and the guy sitting on his ass should get less.

Did the new guy get ripped off? I think so.

Let's say the new guy is ready to get his RVP promotion. Now he has to give his best agent, sometime his best 2 agents to his upline as replacement. So this RVP gets 2 guys and all the agents under them to replace 1 guy. Who gets the better deal here and who got ripped off? PFS says that replacement id O.K. because after the sales team you built gets taken from you by your up line; you get to take other people's best agents away from them. That logic is twisted if you ask me. Let me steal from you so you can steal from everyone you promote.

Do we have to go into the products?

Further rebutting D (Victorville)

As a general comment, switching to allcaps doesn't impress me and is a sign of disrespect to the visitors to this website as you're shouting (and making it harder to read which hinders your message).

Calling me "STEWY BOY" is offensive to me and I recall being called that by a Debbie from California so you're probably the same person and very disrespectful at that.

Getting on to business, it's my understanding that a RVP isn't an officer nor an executive so once again I call for 12 executives or officers from Crimerica who started off as agents. If there isn't even one, then say so (I would also ask someone more knowledgeable than D what are the titles associated with being an officer or executive).

"I CAN PRODUCE ALOT MORE THAN 12." I'm sure you can assuming they're not officers nor executives. How many can you name that started as agents that moved to being officers or executives? Surely you can do better, can't you? (your grammar and spelling along with your manners needs work too).

Ron hasn't been with PFS to realize the truth yet

Ron, you say "I have trained hundreds of new people, and I've never had anyone leave a training appointment and say, "What the H#$L did you just do to my friend/family?" So, are you an RVP? NSD? What? If not, you sure have worked hard training a lot of people. They were probably mostly too lazy to work hard for the opportunity. I'm sure you're "on track" to make RVP soon. One thing you'll notice about Primerica "business owners" who defend the company is that they are never an RVP or above. By the time a person makes RVP they know the truth and can't defend it or they have found a way to justify the deception to themselves. But I don't blame you Ron. When we were "on track" to become RVP we would have defended the company as vehemently as you have. You'll either be one of the very,very,very few who make money or you'll get out in a couple of years when you can't afford to hang on long enough to make enough money to live on. Either way - good luck to you. If it's any consolation, hundreds of thousands of former Primerica agents have been brainwashed before you.

P.S - D in Victorville

I almost forgot about to address how you're going to show that woman how she could be out of debt in 15 years, have $732,000 for retirement and college paid for.

Amazing you were able to do all that considering you didn't know;

1.) her income
2.) how much in debt she had
3.) whether saving for college was a priority for her or not

This is so typical of a primerica agent. You all seem to know exactly what the client needs and wants before you've ever met them.

You completely ignored the fact she could buy term insurance so much cheaper elsewhere that she could have a return of premium rider for the same premium primerica was going to charge for straight term with no money coming back.

You completely ignored the fact that if you could have her out of debt in 15 years someone else could have her out in 14 years by not charging her as much in interest or points and fees on the loan.

You completely ignored the fact that anyone with a Series 6 license can sell exactly the same College 529 plans you can and can set up exactly the same asset allocation you do.

I don't belive in canned sales pitches or walking into an appointment knowing beforehand what the client needs. You're like a golfer that has only one club in his bag and thinks shooting 90 is OK because of it.

Questions for you

Alright, I recently started with the company and so far find it to be quite enjoyable. I am not here however to answer questions like how much money I make a year (and legally you really don't have that right to ask such a question).

I am in fact going to challenge those of you who call this company a scam and prove to me something, since you want us to be on the defensive I'm gonna put you on the defensive. I have FIVE major questions for you:

1.) You often say the company is a rip off, scam and a fraud. If this company is a fraud, why has it yet to be shut down? The company has been around for almost 30 years now, and I am sure lots of people have sent the US Government mail or phone calls saying it's a scam, yet the company still operates. How can this be, if the company is a fraud? Why are they allowed to continue to operate if they are scamming?

2.) When the company originally started in the late 1970s, other insurance companies in Georgia tried to get it shut down because this company was "exposing" what they were doing. However, the state government not only continued to allow Primerica to operate, they in fact PAST LAWS allowing Primerica to run more efficiently as a company with the term insurance. Again, if the company is a scam and fraudulent, why are they allowed to continue?

3.) How is Art Williams, who is one of the Forbes 500 richest men in the world, able to create a scam company and KEEP is operating after almost 30 years, without being shut down?

4.) CITIGROUP is the largest, I repeat, the largest, one more time here folks, the LARGEST company in the world. This company beats out General Electric, ExxonMobil, Microsoft, Wal-Mart, BP, Toyota...well you get the idea. Why would Citigroup not only buy, but continue to support a fraud company? Citigroup already has a financial firm (Citi Financial), why purchase ANOTHER financial company, and on top of that, a fraudulent financial company?

5.) The "cult" like activities. I have never once seen anyone say "Praise the Lord" or whatever. And in fact only TWO people have ever said "Amen" at a meetings I've attended. Both are also very, very religious, the kind of people who'd go to church and join a chorus group and would say "amen" after everything a preacher said that they agree with. The people working below them do not display cult like activities either. How are cult like activities happening in the company?

On top of that, I have worked at companies before that had WAY more illegal practices going on, or where managers were in a cult like activity. They would try to push employees to "go further" and "try harder" despite the fact the employee was getting not any extra money from it, but the manager was getting a bonus. My last job at Cracker Barrel had some intense, border line cult, activities where managers would get on the speaker system every 10 minutes saying "Try harder, lets make this a $1500 hour" or whatever, as if I would somehow get a piece of the $1500. When in fact, management would get an extra $10,000 to $15,000 bonuses per year, based on the hourly sales. I basically was being pushed by my managers to get them a bonus while I didn't get jack squat. However, at this company, if I try harder, I make more money, plain and simple.

Alot of people who hate this company are those who refuse to look around and see what they are doing. Are some of the things kind of iffy? Yeah, a little bit, like trying to get your friends in there to help "spread the word" to get sales. That is due to the company having zero advertisement, no television, no newspapers, etc. Sure you can buy advertisement in the paper if you want though.

In the end those of you who said it's a fraud refuse to just accept it is not a fraud, and won't look at how and why it can't be a fraud. Citigroup owns them, the government lets them operate, the founder is worth over $1.5 billion, and the lack of cult like activities.

Answering Scott = Its a brilliantly concieved marketing idea designed to sell overpriced products by exploiting individuals without much sophistication or experience as both the buyer and the seller.

Scott asks "How is it a scam"

Ans- it isn't. Its a brilliantly concieved marketing idea designed to sell overpriced products by exploiting individuals without much sophistication or experience as both the buyer and the seller. No one can deny it does that extremely well. Amway does the same thing.

2. Scott says 'When it started 30 years ago other companies in GEORGIA tried to shut it down".

Really Scott? 30 years ago the company was known as MASSACHUSSETTS Indemnity and Life Insurance Company (MILICO). It morphed into primerica after it got so much bad publicity when the State of California Department of Insurance had a "death penalty" hearing to decide whether A.L. Williams and Company and MILICO should be barred from transacting business within the state. They survived but as a direct result of the hearing legislation was introduced requiring a 52 hour classroom course of study before you can apply to take the life insurance test here. The myth about other georgia companies is just typical primerica BS. Its probably something your leisure suited RVP made up to impress the recruits.

3. Scott asks "If its a scam, how did A.L. Williams keep it going for 30 years".

To start with A.L. hasn't done it for 30 straight years. He had a sabbatical when he fled to the carribean for a few years while he had some legal issues.

A.L. was brilliant. At the time he saw that the average life insurance career consisted of selling 6-7 policies to a few famuily and friends and then quitting. He figured out a way to get all the commission off those few policies that virtually anyone can sell.

4. Scott asks "why would Citigroup, the biggest company in the world, support a fraud and a scam?"

Yes indeed Scott, why would they? However, skirting the law is apparently not a problem within the Citigroup corporate culture as they have paid out TWO BILLION DOLLARS in regulatory fines and class action lawsuits in the last few years regarding their ethics. Oh? Your RVP didn't tell you that? Your RVP didn't tell you in one breath how Citigroup is so ethical and then mention in another about how they were involved waist deep with Enron? Maybe he suffers shortness of breath.

5. Cult like activities.

Primericans are proud to talk about being on magazine covers. Maybe they don't like to mention
the TV magazine with the cameras present at a meetibg where the people were chanting "TRASH VALUE TRASH VALUE". I dunno myself. I've never been to one. I know I have encountered AL Williams/Primericans over the years and they all say the same things, spread the same distortions (like you have to borrow your own money)and tell me how they will be drinking lava flows in their hawaiian condos while I'm still selling policies.
The last gal that told me that now works at the Rite-Aid down the block

6. Scott says "Cracker Barrel was worse.

Okay, maybe it is. I've never heard of Cracker Barrel. Do they give people advice about finances? Does Cracker Barrel advise people to make mistakes that cost them 10s of $1000s of dollars over a lifetime? Does Cracketr barrel lead people to believe they should have 100% of their money in the stock market because it makes 12% a year? (it doesn't.) I don't know what Cracker barrel does. Sounds like maybe they sell crackers and cheese.

What I do know is if you're on some Jihad regarding insurance and mortgages and you target people with the least financial sophistication you owe it to them to NOT sell them overpriced products.

Finally Scott, primerica doesn't advertise on TV/radio/papers for a couple of reasons.

1.) They can't compete amongst a target audience that researches before they buy.

2.) The acquisition cost (cost to the company of selling a policy) of their life insurance policies is already 30% higher than most companies due to their bloated multi-level commission structure, (the consumer ends up bearing the brunt of this).

TV/radio/papers would add to that acquisition cost and not be cost effective among that audience. A.L. Williams figured out that rather than try to persuade someone to buy an overpriced product through mass media, it was much easieer and cost effective to have someone the potential client knows personally deliver the sales pitch. A.L. was brilliant in adapting the Amway system to financial services. In the meantime, his clients pay more for their term insurance and home loans than they should.

Lastly primericans, I ain't saying its not possible to make a ton of dough at primerica. You can. What I say, and can prove, is that if you sold the exact same amount of term life and loans to the exact same people, and recruited exactly the same amount of subagents beneath you then you would;
a. make lots more money for yourself
b.) save your clients lots of money
c.) allow your subagents to also make lots more moeny for themselves.

Both you and your clients are being exploited.

Rebutting Scott of Texas - Many PFS agents use mis-leading scripts to get the prospect to their office

For Scott in Texas,

You say nothing new. All this stuff is a repetition of what PFS agents' pickup at their Fast Start School, Builders Schools etc... It's the same old mantra. PFS is obviously legal that doesn't make it ethical. So let's take a look:

1) Many PFS agents use mis-leading scripts to get the prospect to their office. For example and I'm paraphrasing:

PFS AGENT: (does not matter the level) “Hello Mr. Dan , I'm a rep with Primerica (sometimes they omit this or use Citigroup) and I'm planning on opening 10 offices in the next 6 months and I came across your resume as someone who could manage these offices”. What Mr. Prospect doesn't know is that PFS agent has no office NOW and is hoping to have 10 offices. This deception is plain and simple. And yes I would call that fraud! You would probably call it a half-truth.

2) Telling people that they have a interview for a Job not a “business opportunity” and inviting them to a “group interview” when the person believed it would be one on one. This site is full of examples, read them sometime.
3) Using smoke & mirrors to lure the prospect into a high rate mortgage under the guise of bi-weekly or bi-monthly payments which they could easily do with their present mortgage company. The whole idea of the FNA is to sell life insurance, and loaded mutual funds, the rest is window dressing.
4) Giving the impression that the agent owns their own business when in fact PFS corporate owns the client, recruits and your purse strings(i.e. Chargeback control, product line, etc..)

In summary PFS is rampant with deception, half –truths and yes fraud. It is encouraged from PFS corporate who looks the other way down through the SNSD, NSDs, and RVPs simply by what is said at all these meetings. There is plenty of proof on this site, but you and other PFS apologist have chosen to ignore it because you're in a type of PFS wonderland. We've been there, done that, got the T-Shirt. We're not bitter, we're trying to keep others from falling into the trap and its working and this web-site is something you will have to deal with throughout your PFS career whatever the outcome. If I were you I would pay attention.

Regards,

For Ron, I said the up line exploits a new recruit.

You're off topic Ron,

I said the up line exploits a new recruit. And that is not logic, that recruiting and training scenario I described is an accurate description of the process. I don't understand how you say a trainer does not take a new guy's warm market. The fact is that a new guy's up line will take him out on as many appointments as possible before the new guy is licensed so the new guy makes no money and the trainer gets the commissions. Then even when the new guy gets licensed, he might not be allowed to “train” his new people because his RVP will say he needs to be a District Leader before he'll be allowed to train a new recruit so even there, the up line gets to collect commission and since the guy being trained isn't licensed yet the guy not allowed to train gets frozen out of an override as well.

As for replacement, an RVP does not lose an override on the agent he promotes to RVP. He collects a percentage override on the entire business of an RVP that he promotes. And not only that, he gets a percentage of all the RVPs his new RVP promotes. Those are called generational overrides. So the scenario is as a new rep, the RVP makes more on the business than the new guy does because starting commissions are so low, then upon promotion, the new guy has to give away his 2 best legs to his up line and then the up line gets generational overrides on the new RVPs business forever. How much is enough?

Why don't you let a new guy get licensed first? Then pay him a decent commission say 50% so he can at least make some money for selling a policy. Then a trainer can take him out to observe appointments that the trainer has set leaving his new guy's warm market alone until the new guy is licensed. But PFS doesn't do that; they start at low commissions so the up line makes more money than they do on a sale, they take a new guy's warm market and freeze him out of commissions that should be his, they take his best agents and rob him of future income and then they still get generational overrides on his business. If you put it that way, there's no incentive to join PFS at all.

Now let's address the “You're in business for yourself” line. That is a misrepresentation because the fine print of your contract with PFS says that your client's and the sales team you recruit belong to PFS and not to you. The company has the sole right to make decisions about your business and not you. You never really own your business if the company has the final says in all decisions and then there are the no contact clauses etc.

We can get into how the PFS one size fits all strategy is not a good choice and the nitty gritty of products in another thread

Rebutting Scott (Arlington)

Quoting:

"CITIGROUP is the largest, I repeat, the largest, one more time here folks, the LARGEST company in the world." I wouldn't brag about the association as Citigroup has been fined up the wazoo by the government who is still pursuing Citigroup in court (isn't Wal-Mart bigger anyways).

"On top of that, I have worked at companies before that had WAY more illegal practices going on, or where managers were in a cult like activity." The old saying, "Two wrongs don't make it right." applies here.

"You often say the company is a rip off, scam and a fraud. If this company is a fraud, why has it yet to be shut down?" Because selling of a product takes place, that's what keeps it borderline legal. A company doesn't have to technically break
the law to be considered a scam. However the law can be changed to recognize that Crimerica is a wolf in sheep's clothing.

"Alot of people who hate this company are those who refuse to look around and see what they are doing." Even Hitler did some good for Germany by building modern roads (which was later used for military purposes during WWII). So does the end justify the means? I don't think so.

Scott I only have one question for you. What would it take to convince you that Crimerica is a fraud?

For Debra and Skull Pilot

If you two would be so kind as to accept this missive as a joint response, I would appreciate that.

Debra, I am an RVP. I wish more people in the company could reach that point, but it is a comparatively small number that do. I suppose that is not much different than the percentage of traditional employees who ever climb to senior management positions in the corporate world, but there is a difference. At PFS, at least every Associate is afforded the opportunity to become an RVP. If they meet the production and growth requirements, they can ascend to that position regardless of their educational background, work experience, race, creed, color, sex or whether or not their own RVP likes them more or less than another Associate.

I feel your frustration. I wish I could make you feel differently. There are things about this company that frustrate me, also, but that has certainly been the case with every firm I have ever been associated with. On balance, however, I feel that this company has afforded me the opportunity to make a substantial amount of money while allowing me to control how much time I choose to devote to that effort.

Skull Pilot...
We seem to be arguing over comparatively minor points. You keep asking why Primerica doesn't do this or doesn't do that, because YOU think it would be better if we did things your way. I offer this comment with all the respect due you as a fellow commentator here...

Had you built a multi-million dollar company and accomplished all that Primerica has accomplished, I feel certain that our firm, and all the people who have ever been affiliated with it, would be more interested in your opinions. It is easy to render judgments about other people, companies, governments, beliefs, etc. However, prudent people have always measured how much weight to assign such opinions to the qualifications and position of those offering said opinions. That is not meant to be disrespectful to you or to your opinion, but merely to bring it into perspective.

Primerica is not a perfect company. Our products are not perfect products. Our distribution system may have its flaws. However, our position and our service that we provide to people who need it are undeniably superior to where most of those people were prior to meeting with one of our Representatives. Since we don't attempt to get anyone to change what they are doing unless what we can offer is demonstrably better for them, why would you demonize Primerica because there might be a less expensive term policy or a loan with a slightly lower interest rate out there? Even if that were the case, the people we serve don't understand insurance, investments and loans sufficiently well to avoid the traps that the products of traditional providers so often entail. We simply try to educate people that it is important to make the best financial decisions that can be made, as early as possible, to give them the best chance to have a bright future. Instead of assailing this company for its minor flaws, I think you would garner more respect if you simply acknowledged its noble mission and the efforts of the people who work here to help middle-income families.

I wish you (and Debra) the very best in whatever endeavors you have decided to pursue.

PFS gives superior service? ..every primerica policyholder I ever ran into had the same complaint

Please!

First of all every primerica policyholder I ever ran into had the same complaint...."he/she sold me this policy and I haven't heard a word from anyone since".

Secondly you cannot believe some of the things I've seen half-trained primerica people say and do. They just don't know any better, tell absolute lies, and believe the lies with their heart.

Here are just a few;

1. you have to borrow your own money out of a cash value policy.

2. Told a client of mine with a $10 million estate that he could avoid all estate taxes by naming 10 different beneficiaries in his will.
In truth is the IRS doesn't care how many beneficiaries you have when calculating the estate tax. Its based on the net value of the estate, not the number of beneficiaries or how the money is divided among the beneficairies.

3. On one of those confrontations where they ambush you at an appointment the PFS rep kept pointing to the maximum mortality table figures in the policy saying this was what the client was being charged for insurance. No matter how many times I told him the the REAL charges (currnet mortality) the client was being charged were listed on the statements, he ignored me. Finally I had to tell him if he made the same mistake again I'd file a complaint with the DOI against him.

4. Told a 63 year old client with a blood disorder to drop his policy and buy term with primerica, quoting him preferred rates. The agent was the client's son-in-law and knew he had the blood disorder.

5. Told a client he could save $85,000 with a simple interest loan from primerica. I didn't do loans then but I did an amortization table showing the real savings in interest was closer to $1,100.

6. Told a client with an estate tax problem to drop his Second-to-Die policy sold inside of an Irrevocable Life Insurance Trust. He told him to put the premium into mutual funds instead. The agent didn't know til I told him that the mutual funds would be added to his estate and taxed at 55% on his death on the entire amount of the fund value, not just the growth of the funds. The insurance inside the trust wouldn't be taxed at all.

7. Told a would-be recruit that he could deduct the cost of his clothes if he became a primerica rep.
<<<< In actuality you can only deduct the cost of uniforms and/or protective clothing unique to your occupation.

8. Told the entire AOL Insurance message board that primerica was the only company that had Terminal Illness Riders on policies, (dozens of companies do). When confronted switched to "primerica is the only one that doesn't charge extra for it" (none of them do).

I have a list of things about 2 pages long I've kept over the years but you get the drift. If you want this type of half-trained person primerica sends out to handle your family's financial future then be my guest. This type of person is the rule at primerica, not the exception.

Not minor flaws; Character flaws

I think it would be better if PFS reps were honest about the opportunity they offer. People are told,” This is your business.” But it is not, the company owns your business. But since it is only my opinion, it will never happen because PFS is a million dollar company and they won't change.

If you told people the day they filled out an IBA that after their efforts to recruit and build a team, the best 2 agents and all the people under them will be given to their up line a new guy might not think it's so hot.

If reps were actually trained on how the insurance products they trash work, they could do a better job “educating” the public. I have a client that was told by a PFS rep to cancel a CV policy he's had since he was a kid(long before I knew him). There was a substantial amount of cash in the policy because his grandparents gifted large amounts of premium but the PFS rep didn't understand that the distribution of that money was a taxable event and would have cost this guy thousands of dollars. This happens because PFS reps know nothing about insurance.

I've heard reps sell a SMART loan as a simple interest loan. It's not. And btw, a couple points higher interest rate will cost a client thousands if not tens of thousands more than a lower rate. But you say you are doing a noble thing by selling it to low income people? PFS term insurance costs much more and it's noble to sell it to people who would benefit from a lower premium policy since they could actually save more for retirement?

The comments in your last post illustrate a “Why should we change" attitude. PFS was designed in the 1970's and in 30 years it hasn't changed. That's the problem.

I don't think that selling products that are not competitive in the market by using untrained, unknowledgeable reps that have been recruited with the promise of a 6 figure income are minor flaws. I don't think that paying a rep a 25% commission and making more than he does on his efforts because I override him is a minor flaw. I think those things are outright wrong and should be changed. You offer an opportunity, but you exploit those looking for an opportunity in order to make higher commissions and overrides. You yourself lied when you said an RVP loses the override on an agent he promotes to RVP, but you just gloss over that fact like it doesn't matter.

You call these minor flaws, I call them character flaws.

Rebuttal to Skull Pilot

Comment #1:

"People are told, This is your business. But it is not, the company owns your business."
Response:
Actually, RVPs CAN qualify for CONTRACTUAL ownership of their businesses. Many, many of them have done so. Your point is that Primerica Reps are loosely told that they own their own business, and that is a misrepresentation. Technically, they don't own their business in the traditional sense, until they can qualify for the contractual award (see above). However, until that time, I'd argue that is a good thing. They don't have to pay any payroll, maintain inventories, rent office space, etc.

Comment #2:
"If you told people the day they filled out an IBA that after their efforts to recruit and build a team, the best 2 agents and all the people under them will be given to their up line a new guy might not think it's so hot."

Response:
First of all, not all RVPs take 2 replacement legs. Mine took one, and I take one. Secondly, I was told about replacement from the onset, and it did not deter me because the rationale behind that policy was clearly delineated.

Comment #3:
"If reps were actually trained on how the insurance products they trash work, they could do a better job “educating” the public. I have a client that was told by a PFS rep to cancel a CV policy he's had since he was a kid(long before I knew him). There was a substantial amount of cash in the policy because his grandparents gifted large amounts of premium but the PFS rep didn't understand that the distribution of that money was a taxable event and would have cost this guy thousands of dollars. This happens because PFS reps know nothing about insurance."

Response:
Obviously, you represent a competiting company or you compete with PFS as an independent agent. It sounds like the Rep in the instance you cite did a very poor job, and it might even have been due to a proper understanding of that client's situation. Those things happen, and they happen in ALL companies. Ford has sold a defective car (the Pinto) because they didn't do sufficient research. Microsoft sold operating system software that turned out to contain some serious bugs and in some cases, really messed up people's computers. The point is that as long as these and other companies continue to serve the public interest and provide needed products, it is accepted that not every transaction or product is going to turn out the way they might have hoped. That does not mean Ford and Microsoft shutter the windows and go out of business. Not every PFS rep is as knowledgeable as we would like, either, but many of them are VERY good and at least, the vast majority of them have their hearts are in the right place.

Comment #4:
"I've heard reps sell a SMART loan as a simple interest loan. It's not. And btw, a couple points higher interest rate will cost a client thousands if not tens of thousands more than a lower rate. But you say you are doing a noble thing by selling it to low income people? PFS term insurance costs much more and it's noble to sell it to people who would benefit from a lower premium policy since they could actually save more for retirement?"

Response:
TEchnically, all mortgage loans are "simple interest." The SMART loan, however, is a daily unpaid balance loan. What people often overlook is that PFS provides these loans, often with a "blended" interest rate, that is lower than what the client was paying if you combine their existing mortgage and all consumer debt together. If we cannot save the client money each month, then we don't even recommend the loan. Does that mean that a customer, if they had any idea of what they were doing and were willing to invest the time and effort, could not go out and find a loan with better terms? Of course not. The key is that your average consumer either don't want to invest that effort or won't, and so they sit in a situation that is definitely not good for them. Your logic here is really poor, because if we followed it, then anyone who is is sold a car, other than a Mercedes or a Bentley, is being ripped off. THAT is just plain stupid.

Comment #5:
The comments in your last post illustrate a “Why should we change" attitude. PFS was designed in the 1970's and in 30 years it hasn't changed. That's the problem.

Response:
That comment is perhaps one of the most idiotic statements I've read on this thread. Regardless of whether you think it has gotten better or not, MASSIVE changes have occurred since PFS was founded...particularly since 1998 when Citigroup acquired this firm through the merger with Travelers. Product lines have been added and others improved, the compensation program has been vastly improved and increased, and the marketing gets better all of the time.

Comment #6:
"I don't think that selling products that are not competitive in the market by using untrained, unknowledgeable reps that have been recruited with the promise of a 6 figure income are minor flaws. I don't think that paying a rep a 25% commission and making more than he does on his efforts because I override him is a minor flaw. I think those things are outright wrong and should be changed. You offer an opportunity, but you exploit those looking for an opportunity in order to make higher commissions and overrides. You yourself lied when you said an RVP loses the override on an agent he promotes to RVP, but you just gloss over that fact like it doesn't matter.

Response:
I take direct offense to your calling me untrained and unknowledgeable. You don't know me, but I would match my training, credentials and educational background against yours ANY DAY. No one promised me a six figure income when I came here. They said this opportunity provided the potential for a six-figure income. Turns out they were right...as I have made six figures for the last two years. That income continues to grow as I add new Representatives, who I train, to my team.
The RVP DOES lose the direct override on a subordinate promoted RVP, so of course, I didn't lie. You simply exposed your ignorance on this point. The promoting RVP gains a "generational override" which means the company pays the promoting RVP a piece of its profit on the new RVP's entire team. None of that generational override comes out of the promoted RVP's pocket, and he is paid at exactly the same rate as the promoting RVP.

If I may make a suggestion, since you have already indicated you are a competitor...
If you would spend as much time taking care of your clients as you do trying to bash PFS, perhaps your business would be more successful. I can't respond anymore here, because I need to take care of my business.

Good luck to you, and I hope you take that last bit of advice to heart.

Don't judge by what you read. Judge by giving the company a try.

Let's first address professionalism. I personally have a MS Chemical Engineering. A couple from our office recently opened their own office and they were Chemical Engineers by training also, one with a masters and one with a doctorate. However, that means nothing. Primerica is an equally opportunity company. They realize that it is not someone's training or education that matters, but their willingness to go to work.

My father only has a high school diploma, but he never worked a day in his life for anyone else. He has been a very sucessful business man. However, I am apparently a slow learner. It took me 16 years in the corporate world to realize that working for myself is better than working for someone else. I left my manager job making over $100,000/yr to go full time with Primerica, and am very happy I did.

Bill Gates never finished college, but I doubt if anyone posting here would say he is not a business genius. Now we all may not agree with his methods, but everyone should respect his ability.

The one thing that has baffled me about many of those I have recruited is that most people are willing to work harder for someone else than they will for themselves. Very few people are cut out to run their own business, and therefore fail. That is why there are many more employees in the world than employers. However, that does not mean that the company offering the opportunity, such as Primerica, is a bad company. It is just a reality. The 80/20 rule applies to us just as much as to any organization. That is, 20% of the people do 80% of the work. Our job is to find the 20%, but we can only do that by weeding through the 80% Unfortunately there is no test, and a resume certainly doesn't help. The only test is a field trial.

However, any large company will have its bad apples. There was one office that I came to know that was what I would call a recruiting only office. The owner of that branch was very sucessful, but his methods were questionable. Guess what? He was terminated by the company, and he now works for HBW.

Our company's mission is to do the right thing for people 100% of the time. We avoid rip off products like cash value insurance, PMI payments in mortgages, and penny stocks in investments. These are all promoted by various agents of so called "professional" companies. Our company is every bit as professional. However, that doesn't mean we do not also have the bad apples. But they are not condoned by the corporate office, and they are dealt with. That has not always been the case at some of our competitors.

Most of the negative postings in this board are from people who never really got started with the company or only stayed for a short time, while the positive comments are from those that have been with the company for a long time. I don't think that is a coincidence. Most people that come to Primerica have an employee mindset. They want to company to pay them and guarentee them. That is not the way business works. Business owners, don't get paid to be trained, they pay others to train them. They don't get a guarenteed return, but they have the potential to make a lot more. They rarely make money in the begining (in fact they typically have to put in a lot of money)but make a lot of money later on.

In the real world you are either leveraging people or are being leveraged. Business owners leverage people, employees are being leveraged. Primerica allows people to start off as a self employed person, and become a business owner. Some people call the leverage a pyramid.

The last time I checked, the hierarchy in most companies is in the shape of a pyramid. The company I worked for had one CEO, several presidents, more directors, even more managers, etc. The top guy was making the most money, and the bottom guys were doing the producing of the product. Yet that company is a real company, while some would say Primerica is not. The person who does the most leveraging is the investor. He doesn't do any work, yet gets all the profits (and most of the risk). That is capitalism.

Enough about the opportunity, let's talk about what the company does. I have helped a lot of real families. In the begining most of them were my friends. I did not use any of them. I helped all of them. They would all agree, or they would not have given me the referrals that helped me keep my business going. My best recruit has been my previous boss's husband. They were able to see the passion and belief I had in Primerica, and therefore they also believed in the company. Furthermore they were also my clients. So, they had a chance to see first hand what our company was able to do. Do you think if even a small amount of the stuff written on this board was accurate, I would have that person as a recruit?

Enough rambling. Don't judge by what you read. Judge by giving the company a try. You also may want to talk to people at several different offices first, since they are all different. This business may not be right for you, but that doesn't make you a bad person nor does it make the company a bad company.

Responding to Ron (Bonita)

It's refreshing to have someone from Primerica who speaks with respect.

I just want to probe you a bit:

"Actually, RVPs CAN qualify for CONTRACTUAL ownership of their businesses." The key word is "qualify." How is this accomplished? What is expected on the part of the RVP in addition to the IBA contract? What exactly can an RVP look forward to under a contractual ownership? Is there a title change under contractual ownership? Would additional expenses be incurred under this type of arrangement (e.g. office rent)? What percentage of the RVPs actually qualify for this type of contract?

As far as titles go, I posed a question without a
response. I already know that an RVP isn't an officer nor an executive from Primerica. Which titles are officers and executives?

**tap tap** (tapping foot impatiently) ...still waitiing

Where's the extensive exposé on Primerica the Frog....errrr....Fraud Chick has promised?

DOESN'T MCDONALDS FOCUS ON HIRING A TEAM AND MARKETING

They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:

Their email: kendrabonds@hotmail.com
Their name: kendra

Their relationship to the company: Supporter

Rebuttal:
YOU HAD MENTIONED THAT ALL THE MEETING FOCUSED ON WAS RECRUIT, RECRUIT, RECRUIT AND NOTHING ABOUT HELPING PEOPLE GET OUT OF DEBT, OR ANY OF THE PRINCIPLES AND CONCEPTS THAT THE COMPANY TEACHES. DOESN'T MCDONALDS FOCUS ON HIRING A TEAM AND MARKETING.

ARE THEY NOT IN THE FRANCHISE BUSINESS? HOW DO YOU THINK THEY MAKE THEIR MONEY? IN ORDER FOR THEM TO MAKE MONEY THEY HAVE TO DO WHAT?(THIS IS A NO-BRAINER)THEY HAVE TO HIRE THEIR TEAM IN
ORDER TO MAKE THE SYSTEM WORK.

IT IS NO DIFFERENT THAN ANY OTHER COMPANIES OUT THERE AND WHAT THEY DO. AS FAR AS COLLEGE EDUCATION GOES COLLEGE IS NOT FOR EVERYONE. THE AVERAGE AMOUNT TIME SPENT ATTENDING COLLEGE IS ANYWHERE BETWEEN 2&10 YEARS, NOT THAT THERE IS ANYTHING WRONG WITH ATTENDING COLLEGE FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO GO, HOWEVER HOW MANY YEARS DO YOU THINK THE AVERAGE PERSON SPENDS PAYING THOSE STUDENT LOANS WITH ANYWHERE FROM 10-18% BACK? HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE IN DEFAULT WITH THEIR LOANS, BECAUSE THEY FOR SOME REASON(FAMILY, NOT MAKING ENOUGH MONEY, TOO MUCH DEBT TO INCOME RATIO, ETC)OR ANOTHER HAVE NOT YET BEEN ABLE TO PAY ALL OF IT OR EVEN BEGIN PAYING ON IT, BECAUSE WHEN PEOPLE DO GRADUATE FROM COLLEGE THEY ARE EXPECTING TO LAND A JOB RIGHT AWAY AND THAT DOESN'T ALWAYS HAPPEN, AND FOR THE ONES THAT DO FORTUNATELY LAND A JOB RIGHT AWAY, TOO OFTEN MORE THAN NOT DO STUDENTS EXPECT A HIGH PAYING JOB RIGHT OUT OF COLLEGE AND THAT DOESN'T ALWAYS HAPPEN EITHER.

SO WHAT HAPPENS NEXT, IS THAT A LOT OF COLLEGE GRADUATES DON'T EVEN END UP WORKING IN THE FIELD FOR WHICH THEY DID OBTAIN A DEGREE IN AND FOR WHICH THEY ALSO STILL HAVE TO PAY THE LOAN BACK.

WHEN YOU DO MEET WITH A POTENTIAL EMPLOYER OF CHOICE, WHO DICTATES YOUR SALARY, YOUR RAISES, ETC. IT SOUNDS LIKE PRIMERICA IS ONLY TRYING TO GIVE PEOPLE THAT DON'T HAVE A COLLEGE EDUCATION THE SAME OPPORTUNITY THAT WOULD BE GIVEN EVEN IF A PERSON DID HAVE A COLLEGE EDUCATION.

Job INterview With Primerica

“Don't judge by what you read. Judge by giving the company a try.”

That's exactly what intelligent people tend NOT to do. What you just wrote is so dumb it's beyond imagination. Buy the book before you buy the coin - don't they say.

Fortunately, we have sites like this one and I praise all those individuals who came forward and told their stories. I also congratulate the less fortunate minds who tried their best to defend their position. But clearly, people like Stuart, Patrick, or Ruth from Ohio simply demolish any remotely potent argument coming from the other side.

After reading the entire thread I came to the predictable conclusion that the so-called business opportunity I got from Primerica earlier this week is bogus. I have not paid the $199 or made any commitment yet because I felt I should investigate before going any further.

Everything about my encounter with Primerica was unusual: The phone call I received was from an Anonymous caller. I never posted my resume anywhere, yet got a job offer in a field completely irrelevant to what I have done for the past 20 years. The job interview was scheduled during a weekend. My interviewer, in his mid 30's said he did not use computers much and couldn't care about e-mail or the Internet. What?

The job interview was marshaled using canned PowerPoint-slide material interlaced with trivial QA about mortgages, life insurance and mutual funds. Yet, when asked about how they generate income, he started fiddling around with his pen on a piece of paper. He had no slides for answering those kinds of questions.

I sarcastically pointed out to him that his drawing looked like a pyramid… on its side.

Lastly, he insisted that my wife and I should meet with him later this week – to go over some of the material.

Sure. Let's do that. LOL.

Clarification request for Ron (Bonita) sounds like more PFS double-talk

Sorry Ron,

But this sounds like more PFS double-talk. What is “CONTRACTUAL” ownership? Sounds conditional to me. You either own your clients or recruits or you don't? Can you leave PFS and take all of your clients and recruits with you and join Met Life (oops, no you're already partners), how about NY Life? Does PFS determine its market value, or does the market place? A little elaboration would be useful, such as qualification factors etc... And BTW is it not the case that an RVP that has his own office or shares one has to pay rent for office space, phone system installations and phone bills, not to mention money for satellite TV, access to PFS software (produce FNAs), marketing materials, SMART? Loan license etc? Please clarify.

Regards,

Do you really want to match wits?

You'd be the first PFS rep here that would even try. You think I post here because you are my competition? Let me tell you something; A PFS rep cannot compete with me. In fact whenever I see a prospect with a PFS policy, I know it's a slam dunk to replace it and take the client. I post here because I had a client ask me to come over and listen to one of you yahoos try to talk my client out of some policies that I had written for him and his wife. This untrained and just plain ignorant rep was trying to talk a 55 yr old out of an EIUL policy (That stands for equity indexed universal life in case you didn't know) that was set up to handle his estate needs and to allow him to take more money out of a qualified pension plan and leave a legacy for his grandkids. Needless to say that these financial panning concepts were over the head of this rep that up until a few months before was pumping gas at a convenience store and knew nothing about life insurance trusts and how they work but he was sure that my client was being ripped off.

This idiot rep actually said that a mutual fund would be better for my client's financial planning needs than the plan I set up. IMO, you PFS reps are a menace and the poor advice you give will come back to bite you on the ass. I'd like to know how long your average insurance policy stays on the books because I and some other independents replace them like there's no tomorrow.

So when I say that PFS has not changed in 30 yrs, I mean that the reps are still unqualified to do what they do and should not be giving advice to anyone. In fact I read a story recently that PFS was petitioning for a term only insurance license. Why is that? Could it be because the guys being recruited can't pass the test everyone else has to take?

The only changes you cite are pay increases for the reps, but you still start people out at 25%, that hasn't changed and you might think replacement is a good thing but in the real world of business, you actually own your business from day one and you don't have to give a piece of it away to anyone for any reason or wait for something called “contractual ownership”. What the hell is that anyway? If you actually owned your business, there would not be a qualifier in front of the word ownership. The true test of whether or not you own an insurance agency is if you get to keep your clients if you sever ties with a company. At PFS you are captive to them and even at RVP with “contractual ownership” you would not be able to take your down line agents or clients with you if you left. Therefore you do not really own your business.

And what are all these great products you've added? You have one overpriced insurance product, a couple of so-so variable annuities, one LTC product from GE and the same mutual funds that every broker sells and let's not forget the “interest rate doesn't matter” SMART loan.

And here is a little tid-bit on PFS; They are one of the only brokers that I know that charges their securities reps a sales charge on personal mutual fund purchases. That's right, most brokers let their reps buy mutual funds for themselves and their family members with NO sales charges. But PFS is better than all the rest.

Here is a little recap of the SMART Loan compared to a standard mortgage:

250K For 30 yrs monthly average balance at 6% interest:

Monthly payment: $1498.88
Total Interest paid: $289,596.80

Same loan with bi weekly payments of $749.50

Duration 24.31 yrs
Interest paid: $225,183.00

A savings of $26,741.38

Now a SMART Loan at 7.5% (Daily Average Balance)

Bi weekly payments of $874.02
Duration 23.11 yrs
Interest paid: $277,034.06

Your loan cost $51,851.06 MORE than a standard loan with bi weekly payments. But gee, I thought interest rate didn't matter.

So it is reasonable to assume that if the standard loan was used to consolidate a client's debt that they would save more than they would with your loan. But you guys defend the SMART loan to no end. WHY?

Add to the savings on the loan the fact that any other agent can provide a term policy for substantially less than a PFS policy and the client can save even more. Here's a neat little fact about how PFS underwrites a policy. you guys all quote standard rates and that's O.K. but if the paramed exams and blood tests indicate that your client actually qualifies for preferred rates, PFS still issues the policy at standard rates. Most other companies I deal with will upgrade a person to a better premium rate if their medical results are better than standard even if I quoted standard rates. I know this because I've replaced PFS policies at standard rates for people who easily qualified for preferred rates with other companies. That's just one more way PFS is looking out for the little guy I guess.

But you go ahead and tell yourself that you are doing right by your clients and ignore the fact that you are charging your clients in the “under served middle class” more than any other company if it helps you sleep at night.

And not that I really care what you think, but the few minutes every couple days that I spend here responding to you guys doesn't hurt my clients or my business at all, and I'll venture to say that all my clients will end up better off than yours.

No one in Primerica offers anyone a job.

Marc, even though you appear to have made up your mind. It is important to address some of your points. First of all, Stuart is one of the most prolific and often incorrect posters on this site and I have continuously debunked his postings as exaggerations, half-truths, and simply disingenuous. I suggest you look at our “conversations” on other this and other threads.

You stated:
Everything about my encounter with Primerica was unusual

I answer:
I wondered why that was when I first read your post. I realized why as I read further. Your expectations were wrong.

You stated:
I never posted my resume anywhere, yet got a job offer

I answer:
This is the first thing wrong. No one in Primerica offers anyone a job. There are basically no jobs available. We offer a business opportunity. So right from the start, you were setup to be disillusioned.

You state:
completely irrelevant to what I have done for the past 20 years

I answer:
Yes, as we do offer an opportunity for those who are untrained in the financial services industry. Especially those who need to consider a career change. We offer an extensive training regime to help you learn the business. But again your expectation (same industry) could not be realize and therefore Primerica would be a disappointment if you wanted the same industry you are in now.

You stated:
The job interview was scheduled during a weekend.

I answer:
Again, it is not a job interview. Furthermore, we do that during the weekend and in the evening because most people looking at the Primerica opportunity have day-time jobs. We try to help people. We don't want anyone to have to lose a day's pay. This is very positive. So your presumption that the weekend event is a negative is wrong. Again, if you are expecting the traditional job interview, those usually occur during the workweek, you were setup to be disappointed.

And this is what's wrong with the postings on this site. Many of them are from people who though one thing and were disappointed to find another thing. For whatever reason, they come back slandering the company without merit.

You stated:
My interviewer, in his mid 30's said he did not use computers much and couldn't care about e-mail or the Internet. What?

I answer:
So what if the person you met is on-line challenged?

You stated:
The job interview was marshaled using canned PowerPoint-slide material interlaced with trivial QA about mortgages, life insurance and mutual funds. Yet, when asked about how they generate income, he started fiddling around with his pen on a piece of paper. He had no slides for answering those kinds of questions.

I answer:
All I say here is that my presentations include how you earn commissions and how much. And as we are a financial services company, what did you expect besides mortgages, life insurance and mutual funds?

You stated:
I sarcastically pointed out to him that his drawing looked like a pyramid… on its side.

I answer:
I have a similar illustration showing how commissioned sales work. And real estate agencies (did you know they are pyramids also?) By the way, if you are currently working at a job in corporate America, have you ever looked at the organization chart? I am certain it looks like a pyramid. In fact, all hierarchical structures are pyramidal. What you are implying is that this is a Ponzi scheme, which is illegal. Primerica is not a Ponzi scheme. It is a MLM organization just like AVON, AMWAY, and most real estate agencies. It is a legitimate part of CitiGroup.

You stated:
Lastly, he insisted that my wife and I should meet with him later this week – to go over some of the material.

I answer:
If someone doesn't want to take advantage of the opportunity, we do extend to them a free Financial Needs Analysis to help them with their financial future. I assume by your sarcastic remark that you have no intention of doing that. That must mean, if you don't need a financial roadmap, that you have no credit card debt, your mortgage is paid off, you kids college expenses are all saved for, you can travel several times a year, and that you will have several millions of dollars in your retirement fund. If so, congratulations, you are the first I have met that has their finances so well structured. If not, you need to take a deep breath and realize that you went in the wrong direction here (following Stuart). Have a financial analysis done so that you can take care of you (and your family?).

Law makers must get involved

Based on further readings I did, it is apparent to me now that Primerica does not offer a job. Indeed, both sides will agree here: If you are looking for a job DO NOT go to Primerica. You are wasting your time.

But really, let's forget semantics for a moment. In my traditional mindset I was going for a job interview. Whether you like or not, that's what real people expect.

The issue with my wife came up before I said I wasn't interested. Your suggestion about helping us is light headed. I made my salary request very clear at the beginning of our conversation, based on what I make at my current job – which is already a six-figure income. Young man, I may be gullible but I am no new hire. And yes, I have accumulated some capital, and yes I do not have any debt whatsoever. I already make use of financial advisers, notaries and accountants.

Unfortunately, I was too quick to volunteer personal information because I trusted the red umbrella at the front door. This fart got me talking like a stupid recruit. I should have realized what was going on, but my eyes were glazed when he said he made over $300,000 last year. His partner made 500,000, and so forth.

I am at a point in my career where this sort of offer was actually reasonable under the circumstances. Yes I am pissed because I new nothing of this scam. Now hear this, Paul of Brooklyn and all those who benefit from this outrage. I will make some phone calls to law makers and get to the bottom of this. Trust me.

To Ron: Primerica is a joke, it is what it is..

Unfortunately (or purposely) you submitted a response against me in the wrong thread! I read this thread due to the wonderful reponses from Skull Pilot and noticed that. Personally, you have so many errors and ommissions in what you wrote, I care not to respond.

I'm getting tired of responding to individuals like you. It has become quite boring to break people like you down. Anyway, Skull Pilot has done a GREAT JOB of that already (take it or leave it).

Primerica is a joke, it is what it is, deal with it!

..your ridiculous McDonalds analogy

They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:

Their email: hereinstlouis@hotmail.com
Their name: C.D.

Their relationship to the company: Owner

Rebuttal:

Kendra,

By your nearly illiterate posts and ALL CAPS, you are proving your opponents' point every time you post. Keep up the good work.

As to your ridiculous McDonalds analogy (which, by the way PFS uses constantly -- maybe because so many of its MLM agents come off the burger line), it's just silly. Can the McDonalds counterboy go out and hire burger flippers at will - ten of them, twenty of them, and then take a piece of the pie when they flip a burger? Can the fry guy hire 100 soda-dispensers and 10 janitors and hope to take a piece of each of their wages when they mop the floor? Can each of those janitors hire 150 toilet
scrubbers by recruiting at the other McDonalds?

What you are offering is not a job, and not a career. It's a great way to part with $200 of your own money and have less of a chance of being successful than if you went to a casino.

Liars

Listen. I have a brother that works for Primerica and all I can say is that he has always been lazy, always been a liar and has always ripped people off. On the same note, most people are drawn to him and find him charismatic and charming. Then he sticks it to 'em.

Contacted by Primerica

I received a post card in the mail today requesting I contact a woman at a local phone number to discuss "full or part time management opportunities". There was no return address on the post card and the stamp was postmarked from New Mexico (I live in St. Louis, MO).
I am not currently looking for employment, although an old resume may be on a professional job search site or two. I have a degree and seven years of experience in Mobile Marketing. Nowhere, on any resume, have I ever expressed an interest in finance. Also, I have been recruited for many jobs through word of mouth and networking. I have never received this type of recruitment from a professional company.
All of this made me skeptical so I did some research. I cannot say whether employees make a wage on which one can live comfortably or whether the company acts unethically. What I can say is that I am not willing to take the time to find out. The manner in which I was contacted was unprofessional enough to let me know not to waste my time or talent calling this woman back.