Q4 Marketing AKA Cydcor AKA DS Max ripoff Super deceptive company Concord California

no good for anyone!

WHERE TO START?

i WORKED FOR FTB PROMOTIONS FOR THREE DAYS. AND THAT WAS ENOUGH FOR ME. ALL THE PEOPLE WHERE KINDA WIERD AND THEY ALL LIVED TOGETHER IN A TWO BEDROOM APARTMENT. AND THAT IS ALL 7 OF THEM. I THOUGHT THAT I WOULD BE MAKING LOTS OF MONEY BUT IF MAKING ALOT OF MONEY IS LIVING WITH 7 PEOPLE IN A 2 BEDROOM APARTMENT., ILL PASS.

THE OWNER RIGHT DOWN TO THE LEADERS ALL LIVED TOGETHER. I KNOW THEY WENT HOME EVERY NIGHT AND PITCHED THEM SELVES UNTILL THEY WENT TO SLEEP. THAT IS THE SADDEST THING,

aND i WAS NOT TOLD WHAT WAS GOING TO BE EXPECTED OF ME UNTILL I GOT TO THE SECOND INTERVIEW.

THE F***ING A** HOLE DIDNT TELL ME THAT I WOULD BE GOING DOOR TO DOOR. i LIVE IN CANADA IT IS WINTER TIME I DIDNT BRING THE RIGHT CLOTHING AND I WAS PRITTY MUCH FROZEN SOLID WHEN WE GOT BACK TO THE OFFICE.

TO NOT TELL SOME ONE THAT THEY ARE GOING TO BE OUT SIDE IN THE WINTER AND TO DRESS APPROPREATE IS NOT PORFESIONAL AT ALL.

lol I JUST LAUGH AT THESE PEOPLE I THINK THAT THEY THINK THAT THEY ARE ACTUALY GOING TO GET SOME WHERE. BUT NOW THAT I KNOW THAT THEY WILL GIVE YOU MONEY I WAS NOT GOING TO SHOW UP FOR WORK ON MONDAY BUT I WILL TO HAVE THE MANNAGER OR OWNER TO GIVE ME SOME CASH.

I LOVE THIS WEB SIGHT LOL

WELL THOSE OF YOU READDING ALL THESE MESSAGES THEY ARE TURE I DONT THIONK THAT YOU WILL BE HAPPY DOING THIS JOB.. ANY IDOT CAN BUG PEOPLE AT HOME. I HOPE THAT THEY COME TO MY DOOR ONE DAY!

Not For Everybody

I am recent college graduate and I can tell you that looking for a job is hard. Right now, I have been blessed to work at for a State Agency, however, I still feel as though people should be warned about what to expect in these door-to-door sales.

I worked for a Cydcor company which shall remain nameless for the sake of those involved, because the people who work there are good people, but the way it is set-up just is kind of shady.

For the week and a half that I worked there, I had a feeling in the pit of my stomach that this wasn't for me and I have to admit that some people are really good at what they do,but when I went on an interview with one person, they questioned a lot of the ethics that this company practiced and I began to question them too.

For one thing, this job offers you no benefits and secondly, this is a very fickle business, one minute you're on top, everyone loves you, then the next minute, it's like you're shunned and that's the end. Lastly, it's door-to-door sales, so expect a lot of rejection.

I was let go by my leader, whom I hope God blesses in all that she does, because she felt as though I couldn't make any more sales and I'll admit that I was sad and dissapointed in myself, however, a few weeks later, I was offered a job at Kennedy Krieger Institute as a clincial assistant, then as a paralegal for the State. So, it's been a true blessing.

I want to thank my former leader for letting me go, because if she didn't, I wouldn't have experienced humility and better ways to have a positive attitude.

So, for those of you who do well in this company, may God bless and I hope that you have great success and for those who don't, it's not the end of the world, just know that God has something better out there for you.

May God bless everyone who reads this.

Liars?

Hi, this would be really quick cause it's late on a workday. As many of the people who wrote the reports I have read here, I started working on DS-Max 8 to 10 months ago; same as them, on streets, knocking doors, walking 5 miles a day, investing money on new guys and all that.

They are right, you got to be a hard working person for the company to hire you, and, so I was. I worked so hard that my legs are now the ones of a professional futball player, but it was worth the effort.

After finishing a professional carrer on a private university and learned 3 languages, no other company would offer me a chanse to work. DS-Max did, and now I am one of those "little percentage" guy who has a self office and wins enough money to rent a house, pay a car, go on a 24,000 dlls vacation... lies? depends on you...

For those who wanted to meet a guy who started as a promotor, became a team leader, assistant and al that... hi!

The most dishonest part of the company is how they attract potential employees

As an ex-employee of one of Granton's subcompanies in the Bay Area, I figured I would have to get involved. For the record, I worked there for around 2 months, more than enough time to have an accurate opinion.

I have to say that pretty much everything of what everybody has said is mostly correct. Yes, I can see how people disagree with how the company is run, with its "cult-like" atmosphere. At the same time, there is "opportunity" to move up through the company and rake in some more dough. To do this, though, you must start at the bottom.

The most dishonest part of the company is how they attract potential employees, by posting ads for jobs in "SPORTS MARKETING." This is about 90% a load of crap as most of what they are selling (and they would say dropping - not selling) is deals for restaurants and carwashes, etc.

After that, I think it is up to what kind of person you are. If you are not somebody that is suitable for door-to-door work, then this job is not for you. I would advise that people that are out of college, or even of that age need not apply. When I worked there (about 2 and a half years ago), I was only 18 and by far the youngest one in the office.

As sad as it was to see the other people still working at this job, I thought I was making ample money to do the things I wanted to be doing. It did take away from social life quite a bit as they demand you be at the office from 10 am to around 9 pm, which is obviously the bulk of anyone's day.

If you are not a "people person," this job is definitely not for you. To be honest, I didn't exactly give in to their sales tactics, and I "dropped" things my own way. In that, I was successful. Therefore, I pulled in enough money for the time that I put in. Other people that I saw interview for the job and get called back for a second day, I knew from the moment I saw them that this was not the job for them.

Anyone who is generally grumpy and has a problem dealing with people would waste their time. Not to say I'm the nicest person in the world, but this is a JOB. Sometimes your job requires you to act in a way that is unlike your normal self.

Even McDonald's wouldn't approve of a grumpy, impersonal person working at the cash register.
This is where their anti-negativity attitude comes in. Again, I didn't necessarily give in to this. When people asked me how my day went, I replied, "Sh***y," or whatever applied, rather than the customary "juice!"

As I previously mentioned, however, I was still succesful in bringing home what, at the time, was enough.

My straight advice to anyone dealing with this company is that it is not a bad job for college-aged students who need the money. And truthfully, do you think they'd actually attract people to interviews by placing an ad headlined "DOOR-TO-DOOR WORK"?

The Oft-Heard Phrase "The Hard Way" Is Not Called That Because It's Easy

Having experienced life as a field rep, manager, and employee of Cydcor I can honestly say that I do not give much credence to the rants that I see on this board. Knowing the "organization" I am aware that every office is individually owned and operated.

I'm sure that with hundreds of offices in many countries, there is the possibility that some offices are run by people with less than the highest morals or standards.

Let's be realistic though. Let's not place Cydcor in a vacuum. This is true of pretty much any company nationwide that has more than 15 offices. Some are run by great people, some are run by idiots.

I have encountered some of them during my tenure. I can say that Cydcor was very active in removing managers that were found to have had low morals. Let it be said that I am not blind to the fact that people have had negative experiences working for certain managers or in certain cities. This most assuredly is true.

What also is true is that people can make a very decent living, through hard work. People who belittle this fact have not given it enough time to work out. I've seen joe average sales agents become managers making a very good living in less than six months. I've seen it take three years. It all depends on the individual. Do they promote that it could happen sooner rather than later? Of course, but who doesn't paint the best picture possible when using open timeframes?

I have to chuckle though, at the people who call working 10+ hours a day a "cult", and at the people who feel the need to speak their displeasure after "working" from anywhere from 4 hours to 3 weeks. How much of the company can you really experience besides the gruntwork in that time? What did you expect? 100K your first week on the job and a luxury suite with a massaging chair? Look back at what you were offered. A sales job. You didn't need experience, although it would be very beneficial. The "possibility" of a management position if you could work hard and prove yourself. Where is the misleading part of that? It is what it is. Not many companies will trust someone with less than a year's experience in the company to handle their marquee clients. All they know about you is that you are a good guy and a hard worker. That's all they ask. If you ask me, it may be their eventual downfall. Not enough background checks.

The way to the top of that company is not knowing the right people, not "saying all the right things" and not "kissing ass". The way to the top is called "hard work". Easy work is found at McDonalds as so many people have suggested in these rants. Trust me, I felt like quitting the first few weeks in the field. Door-to-door sales will make any lazy, recent college grad get in shape pretty fast. It seemed like it would be a lot easier to just get a "regular job" and not do all the hard work. The fact of the matter was that I realized I had nothing to gain by quitting and everything to lose. This company was going to give me a chance to run an office. I didn't earn it, or deserve it...all I had to do was bust my behind for a year or so and learn how to become a better salesperson, office leader, and eventually a manager. I decided that I needed to give this job my best shot and because not many other places would let me get so far, so fast. There is no easy way, but there is a clear path for those who want to work for it.

The fact that this is all you really have to do to become a manager is amazing really. In fact, I'm sure it is basically this lack of selectivity (solely based on the above criteria and not past work experience) that causes issues with former employees. There are often people with very little (if any) business experience running offices. People as young as 20 are managing companies who make over $500K a year. With that comes a lack of maturity or business acumen in some of the managers. It is a lot of responsibility for someone of that age or for someone of any age who does not have a lot of business experience.

I do not know whether to praise or condemn this practice. I do see it for what it is though. Amazing. I will agree with them though. It is not an easy road to success. It is built on hard work, mental toughness and perseverance. As much as we like to brag what hard workers Americans are, not many people in our country really have those qualities. What company are these people dreaming of that encourage laziness and apathy and will still pay you lots and lots of money? PLEASE TELL ME ABOUT IT! I'd love to work two jobs if I could, because that second one sounds like I could do it part time. In fact, the company encourages the removal of people such as many of the complainers in this report. Not because they are complainers, but because they are NOT DOers. I used to see it as mean, but eventually sitting on the other side of the desk you see it for what it is. Running a business effectively. People with negative attitudes and lazy work habits are simply not good for business. They are the same people that will tell you bold-face lies about being sick for work or their dog dying or some distant relative having cancer, or even having cancer themself!!! You wouldn't believe some of the things reps told me to get out of work or to make it easier to quit. It really gave me some insight as to human nature. It was also amazing to track the excuses people would come to me with and compare it to their sales. If they weren't selling, the excuse machine was running overtime. If they were, everything was great. But, I digress.

I look back at my formative time with the company and realize that it taught me how to be a better person. Even when people left the company while I was in the field, many of them had so many good things to say about it. How it made them better people, and made them more professional and responsible. For the few people who have bad experiences, there are many many more who have had good ones. It's all in the eye (or the mind) of the beholder. People should look in the mirror and ask themselves how much they really put into the effort. Overall I think I am better off for having worked for the company. It gave me an opportunity and business experience that few (if any) companies would have given a college grad with no experience. I'd recommend this company to any young adult from the age of 20-30. It's good entry level experience with a very high ceiling.

i've heard that "meeting" too many times

how many times are we going to hear the same thing from owners? we've heard your meetings... we've given those meetings... we were just as brainwashed as you are now!!!

you aren't saying anything we haven't already heard... it is soooo canned... i wouldn't put it past dsmax to fax what you wrote to every owner... heck, it's probably in the manager's manual... as leaders... we had canned responses in our leader's manual, right?

MAKING JUDGEMENTS!!!

I recently experienced my first interview in a Cydcor office in Los Angeles. It was a very impressive office: the receptionist was friendly, the manager had tremendous people skills, and I thought the website was informative.

Then I saw this website......
I find it funny to see so many negative comments from people with so little experience with Cydcor. Some of you spent a day, some of you spent 4 months. I'd like to know how a company like Cydcor could do business with companies like AT&T if there were integrity issues?

Whether I work with this company or not, I am very impressed with the way this company conducts business. Obviously their clients find them extremely impressive also.

My only criticism for Cydcor and their affiliates is.....
to do a better job of screening applicants. Ignorant, trash-talking people should not have made it past the first interview.

Best of luck to you all - You'll need it!

Sincerely,

Sure

Myself after being with your outfit = 4 years, no crew, no car, no home, but $80 dollars in my pocket and $16,000 in debt.
Plus sales experience!

good response james

It is all volume. That is how they get the clients. Cydcor is one division of Dsmax that has offices through out the world. Complete Dsmax is somewhere around 13,000. It is door to door sales.

You have to like people and not take rejection personally. Out of 150 business's that you see in a day, less than 10% of them will have anything to do with you or sign up. But if you see alot of people and hustle - you will make money. How else could the company get big? But don't even bother if you have a thin skin.

So they can take a product, like AT&t and market it face to face all over the world. You would be surprized, many people prefer face to face contact over a phone call or spam. (If they will strust you) I have met many wonderful people in the feild and helped alot of people out with their problems. Each office is independantly owned and run. But in practice, cydcor and Dsmax have loads to do with how, why, when and by whom it is rum

Problem is the system is corrupt.
1) Distributer agreements grossly favor the owner of that particular Dsmax office.

2) They get people making money, then promote financial independance. To do this you have to train other reps to sell like you do. Problem is - you pay them out of your earnings - NOT the owner. The owner will justify this by explaining how he pays for the rent and all the adds. There is a high turn over in this business so you always need lots of recruiting to sustain an office.

3) Very few people make it to management. When you do make it to management it is not automatic financial independance. To make any real money you haveto, out of your pocket, put other offices in business. You will then make overrides on those offices and that is thought to make you financially independant when you have alot of deals out. Of the people that make it to management, few put that many deals out. Many fail in business and need to start over again after the first year.

4) You hit it on the head. NO screening. They get so desperate for recruiting, they can't screen. They promote up and down how you should never prejudge. But because they don't screen, sometimes they will put a scumbag on a lucrative campaign, he will make some fast money and quit or get fired, mess up the campaign and then Dsmax loses the campaign.

I could go on and on but I have to go.

Good luck,

Sorry, its MOON WHANG

The name is MOON WHANG,my bad..

Maxwell Marketing group is ONE OF THEM

I came across this site just recently. I have filed my own report on Maxwell Makrketing..Just wanted to post it here too so that more number of people will know...
**********************************************
I'm writing this report after I read few other reports about this Company....I guess I'm not as lucky as the other guys who wrote those reports...

ok...so, I was a fresh graduate looking for jobs & I saw the ad on the web.Even though it was not exactly what I wanted to do, I thought I'll give it a try..The first interview lasted about 10 min. I was told that they would get back to me if my resume matched their needs....I got a call the next day & was asked to come in for a second interview. I was told that it would be a full day interview. I didnt have a car & so my friend dropped me off for the interview. I was sent with "Jess" (not her real name..let me spare her the trouble of having her name ripped off on the web) & spent the whole day going business-to-business. She told me that they have a couple of other people who also interviewed for the same position & based on her recommendation they would or would not invite me for a 3rd round of interview. so, naturally i was trying to impress her to get into her good books.

She was fully incharge of the situation & painted a very bright picture of what working in the company would be like...Ofcourse, she was very nice, friendly & easy going..It must have been a good day for her as she made around $150(dont exactly know) that day. She told me that the company pays commission for every sale that she makes.She was extra friendly on the ride back to the office(it was 6 PM...) & I really liked her. She told me that since I didnt own a car, it was a major drawback for me & asked me to get back to her when I have a car.

I waited for a few days & when I didnt hear from any other companies, I went ahead & called "Jess" & told her that I was planning on buying a car if I had an offer from the company(foolish me...little did i know that i was to regreat it later). I thought that i might as well as work at maxwell until

I get other job offers (also, i might also gain some experience). She called me for a 3rd interview & again my friend dropped me off...The interview hardly lasted 5 min(i was sure it was 3min)...& was conducted by Mr. Moon chang..i was told that i could join the next day or as soon as i have the car ready.

I started working there soon & gradually realised that it was not exactly as the way "Jess" put it for me...I left home at 6.30am & returned by 8pm...By then, I already had a car loan & no offers yet from other companies. I was basically working to pay off my car loan. Most of the money I made(I guess i was not that bad in sales as i thought to be) went towards gas & car loan. I was promoted to the next level(level 2 or a 'leadership' level). I was told that now since i was a 'leader', I would have to come in earlier than the rest. I was now leaving home at 6am & returned even later 8.30pm. I worked my xxxx off but wasnt happy at all.

When I became a 'leader', I was told to interview others & was 'trained' on the do's & dont's of interviewing. I was given a list of questions that can be asked & also on how to 'take-charge-of-the-situation' "Jess" also told me that if I get too bored interviewing people, I could always ask people questions about them as people loved to talk about themselves (She also said,"remember when i interviewed you, we didnt have anything in common & yet we could talk for our entire journey to the office?"). I was sick to my stomach & lost all the respect that I had for "Jess" these were a bunch of people teaching other people on how to carry their 'legacy' of interviewing.

i was taught all the 'skills of the trade'told what questions to ask, how to take charge of the interview, how to create an atmosphere of "fear-of-loss" ( and to think that i liked "Jess" & desperately bought a car to get to work for them...foolish me).i hated it.

also, i learnt that the way u get to the 3rd level(manager level) is when you have interviewed & hired an "x" amount of people...Basically, you are judged by how many people you bring in & how quickly you train them to be like you & produce "x" amount of sales a month. nothing short of a 'multi-level marketing' type situation.

when i could no longer take it,i quit my job(if u can call it a job) sold my car & learnt an important lesson in my life(which sadly to say i didnt learn at my university. NEVER TAKE PEOPLE AT FACE VALUE).

Unfortunately, I didnt check these rip off reports. If you are lucky, you get to see some of these rip off reports before you get a chance to make a decision..
************************************************

Did I also mention that MOON WHANG,the owner at maxwell marketing bragged to me about getting new people in. One time, the guy I interviewed, decided not to join the company because I gave him a honest idea of what it would be like..Moon whang just 'ripped-me-off'. he said,"do you have any idea how much it costs me to keep these people walking in through the doors?"...what kind of a owner would be mad at you for telling the truth??!!! Also, when he calls people for the 2nd interview, he doesnt use his real name...He answers the phone as some "andrew" or "john"...he joked about it at leaders meeting...Apparently it makes the interviewee think that he's 'American'...what a joke...

Boy do I feel better! It did ruin my life for a little while ( debt, taxes, time, marriage, etc.)

I am also an ex-owner, if that is what you want to call it. I feel so much better reading what everyone is saying. It did ruin my life for a little while ( debt, taxes, time, marriage, etc.), but I do have to admit, one thing I did learn that I will take with me forever in everything that I do is work ethic. Yes, I believed and with hard work it did pay off. Unfortunately, when I got there it wasn't what I expected. No big deal! Life goes on. Bottom line is that it isn't for everyone, but you do not have to talk bad about the peaple who are doing it and ruining his or her dream, no matter what it is. Leave this company alone and let them find out for themselves if it is good for them or not. It didn't work out for me, but noone can take away what I learned from this company. And I am very successful today!

steve, Baltimore

JUST GOT HOME FROM CYDCOR

Well, I just got home from Arsene-Lee Advertising Group--as ubsidary of CYDCOR. I was so excited as I waited for my phone call, the one that would come at 530 pm. Sure enough, it came, and the guy told me that I was invited back for a 2nd interview! "Wear comfortable shoes" he told me. I was so happy! I called my mom. She sounded a little skeptical, and wondered how I got hired for a "management position" when I had no management experience. After I hung up with her, I decided to do a little research. This website, among others, is what I found. Each person's story is almost exact to my own--no one asked me any questions about myself, just a quick, 15 minute interview with some short, 27 year old guy. I knew I was gonna get "the call" the second I shook his hand. Everything about the place, the 3 litte rooms in the crappy office, the way-too-chipper receptionist, and the fact that the woman I was supposed to see didn't even exist now make sense to me. What a load of horse s%*t.

Needless to say, I'm not going back for my 2nd interview tomorrow. An hour drive to what seems like a huge pyramid scam is one path I don't need to take.

Good luck everyone. Do your research..

Former owner of 4 years tells the truth

I found this website too late for me, but hopefully it will not fall on deaf ears. I started in an office in Florida and advanced quickly. Becoming a leader in just 2 weeks I found that I had a knack for the business, putting the first day of observation on my team, getting overrides, running campaigns, building my team.

Finally, I put together a team and was promoted to Ownership!

I thought THIS IS IT MAN!!!! I finally arrived...... That was the begining of the end.

Running a business requires you to either date or marry someone in the business, devote 7 days a week, have little or no "real" cash to spend, (because it costs THOUSANDS of dollars to run all the ads to get us in the door in the first place!), and take no vacations because who will be there to "juice-up" your office if your not there? because believe me you will NOT HAVE TIME to do anything else that really makes a quality life worth living....and that's the time we spend with love ones.( Of course that's just my opinion) If you are still involved with the business after reading ALL of the pros/cons in this forum, I suggest that you ask yourself some insightful questions as to was it is that you are REALLY involved with. For yoursake I hope you heed just a fraction of advice from anyone involved in this site.

It has taken me YEARS (4 to be exact) to realize what it ultimately cost me emotionally, physically, financially, in my relationships, and what it ultimatly cost my family/loved ones by believing in the deceptions and half-truths told by ALMOST everyone associated with DS-MAX, Granton, Cydcor, Vice-presidents, and especially my promoting manager.

Thank you for taking the time to read this, it feels really good to FINALLY get this weight off of my chest.

Sexual Harassment, Shady behavior . . . and some funny effing shyt!!

I
was an Assistant Manager. I was frequently one of the top reps on my campaign and I had a large team. I
love sales and I still work in sales and business development. So why did I
leave? It has something to do with business ethics.

I
not going to insult the field. However, I can say that the business is not what
it appears to be and I found most Cydcor managers to be naïve, ignorant, and completely
unfit to be running a business. After my experience with Cydcor offices and I’d
advise you not work there if you are a female or find any of the following
behavior or scenarios inappropriate . . .

1. A 30 something year old
   
   
   assistant manager sleeps with a teenage girl on his team . . . and gets
   
   
   her pregnant . . . about 15 feet from where the Sean sleeps (they might’ve
   
   
   tried to hide that one but 40 weeks makes it pretty obvious).
2. Your boss actually argues
   
   
   with you that when a girl says “NO!” she usually means “Yes” . . . and
   
   
   then tries to prove it to you.
3. Your boss refers to his admin
   
   
   as the “third base coach” in reference to her sexual activity before her
   
   
   boyfriend.
4. Your boss tells you, “I want
   
   
   to f**k you!”
5. Your manager tells you that
   
   
   every guy in the business wants to f**k you.
6. Your boss, while in the
   
   
   office, refers to a girl on your team as  “c*m-dumpster”
7. While trying to train the new
   
   
   admin she freaks out and looks up at you in disgust as a response to the
   
   
   pornographic photos floating across the screen of the bosses laptop.
8. Someone you see as a “mentor”
   
   
   calls you late at night to get you to come over to his hotel room.
9. You tell a superior you
   
   
   aren’t interested and he is then a complete d**k to you.
10. While in the office, your
    
    
    boss asks you or the admin if you’ve ever kissed a girl. . . . then he asks
    
    
    you if you would have a threesome with one of the Cydcor employees.
11. Your manager says he wants to
    
    
    f**k Vera (sorry, I think she deserves a little more respect than that)
12. Your manager/owner and
    
    
    another manager frequently joke in front of you about one of them f**king
    
    
    the others admin.
13. Another manager in your sales
    
    
    organization cheats on his wife with an employee.
14. There is no HR.
15. The punishment for sexual
    
    
    harassment is getting yelled at (that's how you handle it
    
    
    professionally  . . . right?).
16. A manager/owner asks you for
    
    
    a 1 on 1 . . .  you think it is because you high rolled the office
    
    
    that day by making $250 . . . you then realize that he simply wanted a
    
    
    chance to hit on you and grope you.
17. Your boss tells you that you
    
    
    should “expect” to be hit on at work. When you ask what you do differently
    
    
    that dozens of other people in the office you are told “Have you looked in
    
    
    the mirror? You don’t look like [them]”
18. The boss’s response to being
    
    
    called unprofessional is to tell people their idea of a professional
    
    
    environment “doesn’t exist.”
19. You boss tells you that a
    
    
    girl who had barely sold anything during her 6 weeks of employment was
    
    
    allowed to stick around bc she’d come to work with her shirt half un
    
    
    buttoned and it was entertaining to the guys.
20. Two superiors constantly talk
    
    
    about implying a “NO GIRLS ALLOWED” rule because females are
    
    
    high-maintenance (all females I ever saw get anywhere were considered so).
    
    
    

I’m
so embarrassed that I was associated with these people and managers who know
about this behavior and do nothing about it. Furthermore, I’ve felt incredibly
guilty not talking about this when I know people are constantly interviewing to
work in these offices. Hopefully, this will keep other young, bright,
ambitious driven and somewhat naïve people from making the same mistakes I did
. . . looking the other way when the above kind of behavior was happening all
around me.

Furthermore, my time with Cydcor and LA Marketing taught me never
to work for someone who . . .

1. Doesn’t
   
   
   pay you
2. Teaches
   
   
   you to fudge #’s in Merlin and yells at you when you do it correctly. 
3. Owes
   
   
   you over $1000
4. Owes
   
   
   one of your guys $200
5. Lies
   
   
   to you
6. Lies
   
   
   to a new hire in front of you
7. Plays
   
   
   video games instead of hitting the field
8. Reads
   
   
   gossip columns while you work.
9. Tells
   
   
   you he is hitting the field and goes home to sleep

Btw . . . don't fool yourselves about that promoted on performance s**t. In a "managers only" meeting the truth came directly out of an Org. Consultants mouth . . "You choose who you promote."

Oh, and about making decent money . . .  after its all said and done . . . most rookie managers don't make much more than field reps.

No one will ever get through to them ..You are so obsessed with this false "opportunity" that just to reassure yourselves

Every person who explains their situation throughout this website with these pyramid schemes will in return, continually recieve critisism from these "juice" supporters.

I for one am so sick of their repetitive comback..."FAILURES". Who the hell are you idiots calling failures? Look in the freaking mirror. You are so obsessed with this false "opportunity" that just to reassure yourselves that this is what you really want, you go around naysaying those of us who were sane enough to catch on the whole pyramid idea from the very beginning.

Do us all a favor... Kiss our asses. We don't give a rat's ass about what you have to say. To the majority of us who actually have careers and an education, your speeches mean absolutely nothing!!!

I was the administrator for one of these offices a while ago and I saw a whole lot( innovage corperations: they sell random merchandise). Not only with mine but all of the offices on the west coast. I saw the names of all the owners, where they were located, and what they made every week... I know that the majority of you people make jack shit. I also knew the majority of them on a personal level.

In the end this is how my office worked. Now like I said, this is just how the office that I worked in ran things, I am not stating that all other businesses run the same.

First the owner orders a bunch of random merchandise, i.e.; puzzlebooks, lotion, irons, backpacks, watches,etc... For a "wholesale" price.
For instance; the largest item costs $6.12...now that is also without tax. Innovage taxed our corp. 3.5%. that would make the total for this item out to be $6.33.

Next, he the owner decides the distributor's cost which for this amount would be around $8 to $9. Then he tells them during their morning pep rally that they will be selling them for $10 to $12. Thats $3 maximum profit per item.

Now, when the distributor comes back from a9 hour day he gets "settled up". These distributors don't realize that the owners have already taken taxes out when the distributors have charged all of their customers 7% tax. Half of that is given to the owner and the other half is pocketed by the distributor.

A distributors return is less than 25% of the total sale. Now if a guy has a "good" day he did about $300 in business. That would equal about $75 in profit. Now multiply this by 6 days a week and you come up with $450. Divide this by 60 hours per week and you come up with $7.50.

Mind you, after $40 for a weeks worth of gas, $45 for a weeks worth of fast food you are left with $365 and that is equal to about $6.08 an hour. And remember, this is if you do at least $300 a day.

Now for all of you idiots that call people who have real jobs that give you a real paycheck, failures, shut the hell up. Failures of what??? Failures because we don't have criminal records that prevent us from getting a real job? Are we failures because we don't want to spend 75% of our time walking around aimlessly peddling worthless shit to poor unsuspecting individuals? Are we failures because we actually caught on to the scam before YOU and then quickly left it? Are we failures because we have high goals in life far above the degradation of being a D2D or B2B peddler? Or do you call us failures because you envy us???

We go to work for 8 hour days and 40 hour weeks. We recieve paychecks steadily. We know that we will always have time for friends and family. We know that we will always have a permenant place to live. We know that we will be able to put food on the table. We know that we can afford to own a car.

Really what I want to know is... WHAT DO ALL OF YOU KNOW???????

Get a grip on reality and start looking for steady paying jobs you morons!! Otherwise you are just going to keep digging yourself deeper and deeper until you have ultimately burried yourself.

Some Owners aren't so bad- But you have to lie to get there

Most everything I have read it true- from the interview process to the "morning/evening atmospheres" to all the psychology behind the music and brainwashing techniques. The only thing that is not true about the office I am leaving is the people who work there are not going broke or living together because the owner has made a lot of money and actually pays for things. The roads trips are supposedly paid by him and I believe training is paid by him so that leaders are not losing money. Although I cannot be sure because whenever I ask a question I am always answered by the ever so popular "I don't know"

I was completely skeptical from day one because I wasn't informed about the "day of o" AT ALL. When I walked in at 9 I was asked if my schedule was cleared until at least 5. I was like, um, ok...

And then posted on the wall it says "OWN YOUR OWN BUSINESS ON 6-8 months - yet in an opportunity meeting I am told I have to save 10,000 to open my office. Isn't that my own investiment? When I question my assistant manager about this he snaps at me and says that is a sense my OWNER IS GIVING IT TO ME. whatever dude, I am working those hours for that money.
Yeah so since I ask a lot of questions, I knew they were surrounding me with the assistant managers to try and shut me up. Glad I found this site because it's confirmed all of my suspicions.

See, I don't really have a problem busting my ass to make the money... my problem lies WITH the lies. If I were to walk in there tomorrow and my owner were to tell me I could transfer to another office and be an assistant manager to shut me up I couldn't do it because I COULD NEVER LIE to people like all of these people do. Leaving out all of these truths?? My god, I was never even told that I was really working for Cydor until I was on my 2nd day of training and I had to make a phone call and my Leader said tell them you're with Cydcor!

Yeah so overall I could never continue with this comonay because I could never step all over people and lie lie lie lie to new people to TRICK them into joining the company.

Good Luck to everyone who thinks this company rocks. Heh, they hire people with INTEGRITY. Why, so they can lose it?

CALL OUT SESSIONS!

Anonymous in Oak Brook,
I worked for Sessions. There is a report specifically for his company on this site. I encourage you to name the company directly or at least contribute to that report, so that others can see that there are many people speaking out against the deception.
I'm glad you got out and can see the lies.
Take care of yourself and beware in the future.

The Dynamics of Cydcor

I understand that this individual had a frustrating experience with a Cydcor office. I would feel the same way under said circumstances.

I am with a Canadian Cydcor office and we are work for a major Canadian service provider. I wish I could be more specific as our client is very reputable in a positive light.

I'll get straight to the point. I've been with the company for 10 weeks. I'll admit that during the first week or two, I was very skeptical but the bottom line is that I am making well over a thousound bucks a weeks and am actually enjoying my job. Perhaps I'm a rarity. Oh and I'm paid every week. The cheques clear.

I bartended for roughly the last 5 years at very high end bars and made a decent living. The hours began to bug me and I was referred to the company by a friend. I agree that the ads are misleading but the cold hard truth is that most people won't give this a try if we are super specific about the face to face, door to door aspect. The way that your interview was handled is ridiculous.

Is this job for everyone? F* no. But I'm having a blast making good money and building a team. I've already gained invaluable experience and am well on my way to opening my first office.
To the person who wrote this report, maybe you came across a joke of an office and that IS OUR flaw but if you think that this idea can't work with a good client then you are truly close minded and will for ever be a middle class earner.

On behalf of my fellow workers. I apologize for such a louzy effort.

Some clarity on misrepresentation

The biggest complaint is misrepresentation.

Those arguing for DS-Max argue that they are their own seperate company, operating independantly. This is half-true. They only distribute products/services provided by DS-Max. They are beholden to DS-Max, and their actions reflect that. If you search Hotjobs, Monster, Careerbuilder, etc., for the terms "marketing or advertising" in any city you will find the same ad, with only subtle differences.

They talk about honesty and the second interview. They fail to mention that during the "second interview" you are instructed to hold all questions until the end of the day. After hearing so much about becoming "independantly wealthy" would you even question it? It is an opportunity for them to cram as much false info down your throat as they can. They mention the success of the "Yankees Campaign". They make comparisons to McDonalds. They do all the things they were trained to do (in the DS-Max "system") to get you to bite. And why wouldn't they? Their own "opportunity" hangs in the balance of your decision.

In the end, its all empty rhetoric. Their business overall sucks. How do I know this? For one, there exists no source to prove their success. No annual profits, no budget, nothing. They claim 15,000 offices worldwide. Is that true? How would you know? Where would you look? All they give you are words, with no chance for confirmation of their outrageous claims. In fact, just to quelch the voice of opposition on the internet, they registered a bunch of phony DS-Max sites, so that when you entered "DS-Max" into a search engine, you'd be inundated with empty hits, instead of finding DSMAXTHEAFTERMATH.COM. Go ahead and try it, and you'll see what comes up. Reputable company indeed.

Technically speaking, this may not be an MLM. Technically and practically speaking, this company is a waste of time.

But hey, I have nothing to lose or gain by saying this, unlike those still with DS-Max who are trying to protect thier investment. So go ahead if you must, and realize what the rest of us who experienced this so-called "opportunity" already know - its a waste of time, talent, and resources. Just don't say you weren't warned.

I Was Violated

I felt raped. Sore and raped. This 'industry' cut out my conscience, stripped me of my common sense, indeed it tore at my very humanity. I was a puppet, alas alack a mere pawn in Niarchos evil plan. Oh yeah and did i mention he sucks of Shane Ward who (whom?) blows goats.

I knew it was a scam from the minute i applied for the job.

I submitted my resume online to a vague job description by Vision-Globe and got a phone call 2 hours later so right there i knew something was wrong. I was called in for an interview the next day.

When i went to this interview for what was a marketing position i went in baggy pants a sweat top just to see if i would be hired regardless of a bad first impression. I was taken through one of the ugliest offices i have ever seen in my life. It had foot prints on the carpet, no furniture whatsoever once you pass the waiting roon and numerous offices with the window sills full of dust. I was taken to the main office to where the president was supposed to interview me but was not there at all so i had some 21 year old conduct this interview. This interview was so redundant and so basic i could read right through this youngster. I seen the poster on Cyndor in his office and i already knew this was a door to door position. When he tried to describe the position he literally talked garbage....he kept saying "this a marketing company....." over and over again but i'm wondering "what kind of marketing does this company do?" I was told a whole bunch of B-S companies like coca-cola contacts etc.....for those of you in Canada wondering what the position really is it's rather simple.......the company loads you up into a van drops you off in the middle of nowhere and you are expected top go around and go door-to-door selling such things as fixed rates for Enbridge Consumer gas and long distance for AT&T....what i haven't been able to explain is the tax system for something like this in canada. You are not registered under your own business so you cannot write off your expenses so in essence they come strictly out of your pay check. You are only receiving a percentage of the sale but does the seller pay tax on both his commision and also on the commision the company makes? it makes a huge difference because when filing your income tax, you may have to pay back the government a larger than expected quantity of cash. Also, if you can't write off expenses and work entirely off commision where u also have to pay for expenses out of your own pocket then that is the sign of a direct sales position. The company is totally one big scam and there was no way i was going to invest my time in this organization. For those of you in canada who are smart enough to do your research and come across this site i have told you exactly what to expect. I can tell you right now that freezing your toes off while walking in the snow during winter for what will amount to almost nothing after it's all said and done is a waste - you can make more money working at walmart.

Well i'll end off the story..i did get the job and as the interviewer said....."we are excited to have you join our team" it was all fixed speeck i was expected to go in on a Thursday and i did not show up - thank god i didn't!! What company would hire me after wearing baggy pants and a sweat top to an interview - the must be totally desperate!!

cydcor is the biggest joke

I worked for this company in denver where apparently they talked about professionalism, retiring at 30, driving bmw's, whatever. comes out that only 1 per cent of the 1 per cent of managers that make it are put on pedestals. no benefits, no insurance but countless miles on your car, no expenses were credited and just coming out in big dept. the manager there was sleeping around i hear. talk about great company. yeah right. 3 months was enough for me! don't do it. i warn you.

I think you are all biter that you din't make it in the busness.

Irs not hard, so you have to put in a few xtra hours, but its like that everywere. I guess all you couldn't stand to work a litle harder and need your mommys and daddys with you. I became an owner in 4 months. And I still have relasionships with my boyfriend, he's in the busienss with me and he loves it too. We work harder today to acheive what others can't tommorow. And as for the person complaining about the person who had to go their sister's wedding, well he got the day off, but when you take a day off, you lose. You got to work hard. He obviously had a negative attitude and had to be toasted. DS-Max, Cydcor and Granton rule. Woohoo.

Juice.

In response to Roaxannes day off

Roxanne, in regards to your day off, let's hope that someone does not pass away in your family, cause by juice, youre gonna work!!!! NO NEGATIVES!!!!!

And as for a wedding, and being in your sisters wedding as the usher, don't you think that a day off on Saturday is not unreasonable? I am so glad that I quit. Unlike the "manager" of that bloodsucking CULT, I would have never, ever took his hard earned money away from him. She basically stole it. Thief comes to mind.

Are you a thief? Are you a liar? Are you inconsiderate of you fellow man? Would you swindle your own mother/father/sister/brother? If you are, you are ds-mas' greatest asset. Don't tell me about all the bullshit, remember, I worked endlessly and tirelessly for this company for over six months.

I have kids, didn't want to move to PA to open an office in the middle of the year. Guess what, because I put my kids first, (something a mother is always supposed to do), I had a shitty attitude. OK I fell for it, but don't tell me that some kid, who sold over 500 pieces that week, deserves to have his money stolen from him, just because his sister is getting married and he is part of the wedding party. And it was STOLEN from him

If you and your boyfriend get married, don't expect a honey moon, cause that'll cut into ds-max profit. And having children? Hope you can apply for medicaid, cause you aint getting health insurance unless you buy it yourself.

I hope you have a real juicey day in the pits, not earning anything while I laugh all the way to the bank with my paycheck and visit the Dr for a checkup just because I can:)

Suck on that juice!

How NOT to get called back for a "2nd interview"

Today I interviewed at "Top Flight Enterprises", a Pittsburgh based "Marketing Firm" which is actually a subsidiary of Cydcor (or one of its subsidiaries). Before leaving for my interview I called my Temp Agent, that is, the person helping me to locate a nice managment job. After giving him the update on my daily plans, I was told that I should be weary of this company and that, unless I was planning on doing door to door sales, I should just go there for the experience of observing their recriuting process. He gave me the list of "red flags", and sure enough, Top Flight got every one of them.

I arrived in the "HR Department" of Top Flight Enterprises around 2pm. Upon opening the glass doors, I was greeted with blairing rock music coming from the side office where there appeared to be some type of party. I was instructed to fill out a crudley put-together employment application and to wait for a HR representative. The receptionist was less than friendly, and oddly, had nothing but a phone and a binder full of applications on her desk. No computer, no paperwork, no filing cabinets, no office supplies... you get the picture

Eventually the 21 year old "businessman", emerged from the party-room to take me into the other (the only other) office. He spewed an endless amount of jargon and buzz-words that meant absolutely nothing to me. Though I have many years of managment experience and am almost done with my business degree, I had absolutely no idea what kind of managment position he was offering me. He never gave me a chance to ask questions about the company, but instead went directly from his sales pitch into setting up my next interview, which he said, "...is a little bit different from a traditional interview. You'll want to wear comfortable shoes."... so I've heard. I decided that I wasn't going to go into this next "interactive" interview without any background information, so I forced in a few choice questions.

"What kind of benefits package does your company offer?"
"Would I be paid salary or by the hour?"
"How much time each day would be spent walking?"

Those questions worked like a charm. The interviewer became noticibly flustered at each of my questions and told me that everything would be explained to me at my next interview. I should expect a call around 4:30... I ran across this site just before 4:00. Lucky for them, they never called.

Everyone's Angry

Everyone is angry and posting these reports to warn others of this company. But what are we warning people of? There are no reports of people losing any money or putting themselves in some sort of personal danger...it sounds to me like everyone is mad because the company promised success and these disgruntaled employees didn't see the fruits of their labor. Which is understandable, no one wants to be lied to or mislead. However, after reading these report you'll notice that most of the former employees were only employed for a few days!!!!One person was only employed for 4 hours!!! What do they expect???? Unfortunately for these unhappy people, success in this business is based on one's own merit. If these people failed there is only one person to blame....

On another note none of these people ever worked for cydcor, dsmax, or granton marketing. Those 3 companies are distribution companies that supply privately owned offices around the country with clients. These people all worked for these privately owned offices that are in no way connected to each other. The particular office may have bad business practices but it can in no way be related to dsmax, cydcor, or granton marketing.

Are you sure you are JUST a consumer?

Some of us have spent months and years in your outfit.

We all know that DS-max, Cydcor and Granton marketing are suppliers. But that is only a front to remove them from liablity. You owners are are on the phone with them all the time with questions relating to the products you sell and your business. All three are present at rallys. And we know how they pull the strings.

We aren't impressionable days of observations trying to impress you to get your job. We know all about your paper work saying that all we are is an independant distributer for a privately owned corporation. And that 10's of thousands of such entities make up the sales force globally.

It's time that DS-max, Cydcor and Granton Marketing start to face some of the public ridicule that they DESERVE for the consequences of their action.

Oh and by the way...Don't you get it?

We aren't envious of your OPPORTUNITY any more. We are disgusted we ever tried it out!

We want to warn others not to get sucked in because we KNOW that ounce you get HOOKED it is hard to quit.

the similarities just boggle the mind

I was in this group for a while. No more. Got real caught up in it. Tried to be the first there every morning and the last to leave. Changed offices. Trained alot of guys. Ran a lot of impacts and meetings. Took my crew out for food. Saw the list of the syptoms of a cult. There you go! Think about this if you are sunk into DS-max.

If you check many of these items, and particularly if you check most of them, you might consider examining the group more closely. Keep in mind that this checklist is meant to stimulate thought, not "diagnose" groups.

1. The group is focused on a living charismatic leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.
2. The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
3. The group is preoccupied with making money.
4. Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
5. Mind-numbing techniques (for example: meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, debilitating work routines) are used to suppress doubts about the group or its leader(s).
6. The group's leadership dictates – sometimes in great detail – how members should think, act, and feel.
7. The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s), and members (for example: the leader is considered the Messiah or an avatar; the group and/or the leader has a special mission to save humanity).
8. The group has a polarized, "we-they" mentality that causes conflict with the wider society.
9. The group's leader is not accountable to any authorities (as are, for example, clergy with mainstream denominations).
10. The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify means (for example: collecting money for bogus charities) that members would have considered unethical before joining.
11. The group's leadership induces guilt feelings in members in order to
control them.
12. Members' subservience to the group causes them to cut ties with
family, friends, and personal pre-group goals and interests.
13. Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group.
14. Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only w
ith other group members.

I believe that the group I was in fits many of the above criteria.

Number 1 can apply to a) emulating the owner and b) adoration of VP's and success stories in atmosphere and gatherings.
#2 ANY way possible they try and recruit. You are praised big time if you personally recruit - but to advertise in papers - you can only tell an applicant half truths to get them to try the business out.
#3 Definately!
#4 Yes! Especially if you influence others to dissent!
#5 Each office has at least 5 chants.
#6 It starts with them preaching about attitude. To make money, you act like your trainer and pitch and get sales. Problem is - if you are modeling someone - you take on the good and bad charicteristics.
#7 Yes! They are rhinos out for financial indepedence doing the things no one wants to do so that they can be filthy rich and have great lives.
#8 Yes! Cows are ofdinary people that get fired and layed off. Rhinos have contempt for them.
#9 True!
#10 Going door to door. Signing up people for things that are not necessarily to their benefit. I could go on...
#11 All the nagging I got if I did not work Saturdays, didn't extra mile, didn't want to train everyday, didn't want to be the last to leave...
#12 Yes. All or nothing. Break ties with all who might want you to quit.
#13 Yes. Work 6 days a week. spend Sunday chatting with your crew to keep them in the business. Arrive early in the morning to open up. Wait forever for atmosphere and meetings to start. Work like a dog door to door 10 hours. Come back, settle the new people up first. Clean and close the office. (Even though you might not have made any money that day). Who has time to cook dinner?
#14 Partial. Your not required to live with each other - though it usually works out that way. You only want to be socializing with positive attitude people. So if someone in the group is negative - you don't want to socialize with that person.

GLAD I AM OUT!

keep these types of groups away with a 10 foot pole!!!

1. Be wary of salespitches. Does manipulation or coercion enter into the work is presented? Do you find an eagerness to sign you up, get a commitment (a sizeable deposit). Without respecting your right to consider the matter at your own discretion?

A Yep. You don't have to pay no money. But like when it is your first day to try it out – you sign up then and now or not at all.
2. Note the mood of the organization. Are there hordes of people involved? Does the organization respect the rate of each person's progress or is it a hurry up, results-guaranteed affair? A Depends on the leader. Some will just put you out on the street with no training.
3. What is the group leader like? What are his/her credentials?


4. What are the personal instructors like? What are their credentials?

A

Anyone they can brainwash enough to stay!
5. Speak to others who have already participated. Do they repeat the key phrases of their experience? Watch carefully for this, and note that parroting may be a symptom of a well washed brain. Try to get these people to tell about their individual experiences instead. Are they able to do this thoughtfully? If so, this is a good sign.

A These guys have trainers meetings dedicated to what to say to new people to get them to stick in the business.
6. Does the group require ongoing participation of people who have already “mastered” the work – to the extent of actively recruiting new customers? Do these people provide time – consuming free salesmanship for the organization? If so, ask them why they “choose” to do this. (And watch for repetitive key phrases again or an irrational zeal.)
7. Does the group place heavy emphasis on a specific (rigid higher, or “holier”) authority figure – guru, leader, teacher? Is such emphasis built into the atual work process? Can authority be challenged? Does the group provide ample opportunity to question the methods, techniques, theories of work or does it have an implicit attitude of “we know shat is best for you”? A Authority figures holier than thou… Murray – Larry – Paul…. Someone's owner. Never question or reinvent their precious system with its 5 & 8.
8. Can you observe any negative techniques, especially in the beginning exercised or instructions? These might include obvious personal insults, put downs, tearing-down of egos – or less obvious of giving orders, bullying, threatening and general reinforcement of diminished sense of self.

A Watch dissenters get fired, belittled and discredited!
9. Does the process involve any severe physical discomfort or pain? Mental or emotional pain? A Yeah. Going door to door to rip people off. Regret for having trained people to waste their time with this business.
10. Is hypnosis part of the process without being fully acknowledged as such?
11. Does any aspect of the work “go against” a personal belief conviction, or religious concept? If so, are your feelings respected?
12. Does the process project an air of mystery, secrecy of things not explained? Are you instructed or encouraged to do any work you do not fully understand (including chanting in another language without adequate translation)?

A You Only get told a bit at a time about the company until they have you hooked.
13. Is there any responsible assessment or screening process of each applicant's physical, emotional, and mental state before admission? Or is money the only prerequisite to doing the work?

A

None. They only want people that can sell.
14. How do you feel about the people participating? Do they seem intelligent, balanced, thoughtful, aware? Or is there an underlying mood of desperation, or an apparent inability or unwillingness to think things over? A Pity. They are stuck. They are committed. To admit it is all wrong is humbling. It is like a gambler who gets a good machine once in a while. Once in a while these guys have a good day in the field or actually retain a good guy. And then famine forever. It is a disease.
15. Does the group tacitly discourage members from continuing close relationships with nonconverts and encourage members to recruit everyone in their lives?

A You should not associate with anyone that might discourage you from being in the business. Personal recruiting is a big plus!
16. Is any form of intimidation of dominance over others encouraged by the work?
17. Does the group place emphasis on affiliations with celebrities, politicians , industry?

A You should here how they promote that they work with clients like the Yankees, Pizza hut, Papa Johns, Sprint, DTV, AT&T, Stamps.com, Staples and many others.

These questions are used by some people to determine if a group is a cult. The answers are my person responses with regard to dsmax.

Cydcor/Marketing Endeavors Atlanta

My great experience revolved around my "attitude." Here's the story: I went on one of their infamous road trips and did okay in terms of money. However, I was shorted by 50%. I was told that they, Cydor/Greystone Marketing in Charlotte, take out 20% as security. I showed the TPTB that I had much more than that taken out. They said they would look into it. Since I went to the head of Greystone and not my "leader" I did not get any answers as to why I had been shorted, not did I get any one with any sympathy to my plight.

Instead, what I got was a bunch of lectures on how my attitude was bringing the office down. Huh? You short my check, I try to fight for my right to get paid and I have the bad attitude? This went on for three-four weeks. When the error was finally found, their fault, I was given a lecture by my "leader" the manager and regional director as to my attitude and how everyone hated me. I left after that.

Cydcor and its affiliates operate like a cult! Most people who work for them live together, some times 5 to an apartment. I had to get to work at 7:30am, participate in practice pitching / atmosphere for an hour, listen to rah-rah speeches that are pure hokum, work 8.5 hours per day walking door-to-door in the field, come back to the office for another hour of atmosphere while pretending to be happy that I made no money, go out to a lame-ass team night that was poorly organized and then feel good about doing that again every day.

I spent at least 12-13 hours per day in that "organization." They discourage outside life/interests. Individuality is frowned upon. Once normal people are hypnotized by the sayings and allure of instant success that they become swept up in the fake excitement. Run like hell from this company.

If you love What you do....YOUR'e ALIVE!!!!!!

It is Funny to read comments from people who claim to have worked with these companies, or claim to know what they are talking about after spending a few days with the company and have given thier thoughts and opinions, and rightfully so you have the right to speak your mind. I just giggle because the only reason you speak with such a negative mindset is because you tried and YOU FAILED!!! You gave up, and deep down inside you know it is a great company and you are pissed off that you did not get a chance to reap the benefiets of all your hard work, Well ,...sorry to the guys and the gals that quit in the third period and decided not to finish the game , but the only one who is missing out is YOU. I am twenty-seven years old and I made it.....I run an office , an independantly owned subsidiary of cydcor and ds-max, and I fricking LOVE what I do!!!! I make more money than I ever thought I would, FACT! But the funny thing is that I was confused...I thought money mattered...It is not important take it from me,I make over three hundred thousand dollars a year, and I'll show you my pay stub,...-come on down, but I think the only people that want money are those that dont have any!.. I come in every day and LOVE WHAT I DO because I help people, I teach and coach and yes I have INTEGRITY, and have never ,...EVER done anything in life or in my business with any MAL-Intent, I am a great guy, with a great organization, and maybe you just surrounded yourself with the wrong people ..but I care about my people I strive everyday to see them succeed , I LOVE CYDCOR and Ds-Max, don't know where I would be without them, and my friends I am not confused , noone has dangled any carrots in front of my face, I got everything I ever wanted with this company and I will nEver EVER Quit!.. NO matter how many of you quit because you don't believe in yourselves, or no matter how many of you see living with some of the guys as a way to separate them rather than the truth with is We live with the guys to help them out, did you ever ask them if they pay rent , I bet the manager takes care of it to help his guys , you close minded retard.

Call it what you will and make any accusations you want, but cydcor and ds-max is a people helping people business, I love what I do , I hold honesty and Integrity in the Highest regard, and I feel sorry for anyone who goes to work or a job, rather than going to a place they hold passionate, where they get challenged, rewarded, and excited to HELP people learn business, help people become successful, help people grow as individuals, HElp people balance personal time with the neccessary sacrifices it takes to become a success any where in the world. You must think that success is different than it really is.
Let me help you all, success is not easy, there are NO GET rich quick schemes, all that has happened is that once again you have failed, you quit!, and I didn't, have fun...and if you are looking for a new carreer, look me up, I will help you understand,.. and if you find something better, come tell me about it and I will come work for you,...but sorry,,,IT DOESN'T EXIST!

San Francisco Communications (and Damn Proud)

Worked for CYDCOR for 8 Weeks

Well, here it goes. I worked for a local branch of Cydcor for a total of 8 weeks. For those of you who have been through the company, you already know about the 60+ hour work weeks and the unbearable amount of pressure to bring in sales.

Why did I stay so long? Like the rest of us, I partially believed the dream, the own your own business, be your own boss crap. In 3 weeks I made it to leadership. By my second week, I had already pulled in 15 apps on the ATT campaign.

On the start of my third week, I really thought about what I was doing. When I applied, the job listing said contact Kristen. When I went in, there was no Kristen. The ad made it out to seem like there was some huge human resource division involved. But there wasn't, just a 3 room raggedy office in the middle of nowhere.

Everytime I would question something, I was "encouraged" to quit. Every other word that came out of my managers mouth was a lie. What it ultimately came down to was that the work was just dishonest. Aside from that, my time was wasted, I put 1200 miles on my car each week, and my cellphone bill went from $50 each month to $250. I was deceived, although I don't completely blame the company - I was just naive.

After all has been said and done - it comes down to this for those of you who still believe the hype. How much did you make on your last check?

750 - 1000 - 1500 ???

OK Lets say 1500. Minus taxes - about 1100? Divide that by 2 for each one of your weeks. 550 Right? Divide that by your 65 hour work week, because I know that's what mine was.

$8.46 an hour. Take into consideration gas, your cellphone bill, car payments, lunch everyday, and you'd be doing better working at McDonalds.

Trademark you are so right!!!

Anon - Glad you are so good at messing up other peoples lives. How many of your reps will get chased by the IRS because they don't know to budget for taxes?

How many of your reps can't budget for taxes because they are so broke they are borrowing money to eat? Won't they have a good surprize in the near future. Juice by them!!

Nothing like closing that back door and sticking it out for the opportunity!

Hey Boys and Girls! There are more aticles about this wonderful mlm cult under ds-max and dsmax and ds max.

Trademark were you talking $1500 a for week, two weeks or a month? Lots of guys in the field at DS-Max are lucky to make $200 a week. AND EVEN THEN!!! - their owner might STILL want them to go out and retrain someone. (for the uninformed that means you will take some out for the day in the field and train with that person and voluntarily surrender at least $40 of your income if they don't make money.)

REBUTTAL TO JUICE HEADS LISA AND ANON

You guys just don't get it do you? I have worked for a cydcor company, and for cydcor itself. I have seen people hurt, physically, by driving all night to cover working stores( k-mart, wal-mart, montgomery ward( r.i.p ) )to make 50 dollars. I have personnally seen people get accosted while doing "b2b" work.

Actually it is door to door, just admit it, at least to yourself, please. No one is jealous of what you do. Anon, God bless you, you have found something that wakes you up in the morning, good for you. Why do you feel the need to be so defensive about what you do. Are you a manager? you sound like you are still in the field. Right?

I have known people like you, in fact I had people like you in my office( dallas , tx ) you are great for motivating the real people with potential, good cheerleaders, keep the peoplewith potential interested long enough to get them to management.

So keep it up guys, Larry, Avie, Murray, Paul G. all love the hard work you are doing, keep striving for that porsche, or that house in malibu, it could be yours, if the price is right!

But does it all pan out?

I'm one of those who worked at Cydcor for a short period (and we're talking a couple of weeks not months here) simply to raise a bit of cash to put some rice and beans on the table. I saw that pretty much from the word go, when you're out observing the leaders and are sat down for your explanation of the company, you are made completely aware of it being a door-to-door operation and it seemed obvious that the decent money would not be seen until reaching the upper echelons of the company. Evidently this 'opportunity' was based on continued expansion of the company, which in turn was based on getting accounts for new/existing clients in existing/new geographic areas.

My question goes out to those who've observed the company for longer periods: does the hierarchical progression, the 'opportunity', really work within the timescales they initially suggest, and with the earnings they give? If it does then there's no misrepresentation on Cydcor's part. I just can't imagine that within one year they will have 30 new areas or businesses for the 30 people that were in my office (or even 15, given that there's some atrophy).

And whilst they try their best to make imbecilic sycophants out of all the employees, even the slowest people in the office I was at were aware of what they were undertaking by the end of two weeks in the job and how they wouldn't get much more than the breakdown of per hour earnings that TradeMark did above for their first year. If only McDonald's served rice and beans.....

other marketing companies to watch out for SF Marketing, On-Track Marketing

SF Marketing, South San Francisco
On-Track Marketing, Pleasanton, CA

I had interviewed with both places and their offices were strange.. Two-three person runned operation out of an office space.

Marketing Endeavors, Velocity Marketing, etc. Scamming people like this is just so wrong & they should be ashamed of themselves

WOW!!!! Check this out. Last week one morning I applied for a position on monster.com. The ad read (and is still there I might add) "Experience & no degree? Degree & no experience, will train" Posted 3 or for times in a row. & the same thing is posted for this company called Velocity Marketing.

I then ran some quick errands, & came home to find a message from a "Silvia" on my answering machine. She said, "Hi this is Silvia calling from Velocity Marketing & I'm interested in you coming in for a preliminary interview. Please give me a call back so we can schedule that. My number is (404)873-****. Again this is Silvia from Marketing Endeavors." (Caller ID said Marketing Endeavors) I got a bit suspicious when she switched the name on me like that, so I decided not to return that call. The VERY next day I got a call from her again asking for an interview, & then again later in the day from a "Jennifer" in which I decided not to return their call.

So just today, I thought it over and for some STUPID reason, I decided to call. Jennifer answered the phone & I told her that I was contacted, & she immeadatly scheduled me for an interview at 11:30 tommorrow morning. Only thing was there was so much static on the phone that I had to ask her 2wice what time I was supposed to come. Then she said she was having phone problems. "Jennifer" then called me back at around 6:30pm (a bit past regular business hours in my opinion)in order to ask if I received her e-mail with directions. I then checked my e-mail & instead of Jennifers name as the sender, I saw a "Crystal". Now I got even more suspicious. Soooooooo just tonight I looked up their website www.marketingendeavors.com, which really gives no clue as to what it is all about, or what jobs that are available. Then I wandered upon this site by doing a google search & I'm soooo glad that I did!! Also looked at the Cydcor site too. Made my decision, I won't be showing up tommorrow for this interview. After graduating college, I don't have time for a BOGUS company like this one. I gotta pay my student loans back.

Scamming people like this is just so wrong & they should be ashamed of themselves. But people with no morals & values just don't care, they're just out for the $$$$$$$. What a bunch of CRAP!!!

Thanks for the info everyone!

DO NOT WORK HERE

This company is a scam. I worked for Cydcor for about 3 days, a few months back. Funny story, I ran into one of my fellow co-workers who had been there for a few months. He said that after I quit, people began to quit consecutively, including him. He told me to look it up myself on google for the reason he had quit, so I did. I mention this story because I knew something was fishy about this "company" yet blacked-out the bad experience all together until now. It is so funny hearing about the 3 room offices with the cheerful, well-endowed secretary and the catch phrases because they are completely true.

And to the supporters of this company; have you noticed that you along with the other owners all spout the same nonsense? Basically, you talk up your company, directly insult others who talk bad about it, say we shouldn't directly insult the company (double-standard), then talk about how you are making tons of money and that we are losers. Or something to that degree; I really had a hard time deciphering this load of nonsensical rubbish.

I also liked how much you guys value people in your "people" business here because when a teammate has a bad attitude one day out of 500 days, you guys give them moral support instead of cutting them from the business...oh wait that didn't happen.

Potential employees: don't waste your time.

thank you

Thank you all for taking the time to post your comments on the web. I don't care if people are bitter or not about the cydcor bla bla bla. I am just glad that someone let me know that I would have to spend a day walking around on my second interview. My time is worth far too much to waste it on a commissioned door to door program. Its true you can make millions of dollars selling bibles door to door, but why the hell would you want to. I wouldn't. thanks again, I'll be by the pool on Monday.

please punch me

anyone that gives high-fives with the words, "juice by you" deserve to be punched, laughed at, then punched again. please punch me...

break the hell out and grab your sack of rocks

Okay, there's been alot said about the pros and cons (mostly the latter) about Cydcor. I find it hilarious that people are comparing it to a cult, because in the six days I worked there in San Francisco, that thought never even crossed my mind. But now I can't beleive I never noticed every single person in the office, from the receptionist (JUICE!) to the Managers (Goals? GOALS!) to the flock of employees (juiced by that?) using the same goddamn catch phrases. I mean, I was still technically a trainee when I quit (having logged nine days worth of work in six days, with my leader hounding me to show up on Saturday), but I never understood why, when they asked me what went right that day, "Me and Timmy had a great time!" didn't work as well as "Me and Timmy built relationships." I don't get that. If you wanted me to answet that %@!^ing answer, why didn't you ask me "Did you and Timmy build relationships today?" Maybe there were life lessons to be learned here - teamwork, how to teach, how to build people skills, have fun wherever it is you are, whatever it is you're going, how to set goals, attainable or not. But the singular most important life lesson here: Do not work for Cydcor. They have a reputation now, do your research - ask your company about to interview you if they are a subsidiary of these bastards.

Realistically, however, that is one of the more inconsequential problems I had with these bastards. Yes, it's a problem they want you all to act and talk the same. But what makes them so seductive is the promises of money (my manager showed me his weekly pay stub - it was for four and a half grand) in such a short time. They literally give you - on your second day on the job - a piece of paper delineating the employee growth. For nine to twelve months you're in the field, after which you get promoted to assistant manager for four to six months after which you're "handed the keys to your own office" holding brown sacks with dollar signs on the front.

Maybe it does work out like that. I doubt my ex-manager was showing me a fake pay stub. But the fact remains that of the sales people, very few possess the charisma they are looking for to be store managers. I didn't stick around long enough to find out if this stuff actually happened, but the fact of the matter is, not everyone there is management material. But you don't know that, and while they probably do, it doesn't matter- because you're out there busting your hump to earn earn earn to get that promotion. Meanwhile, they're pocketing 80% or something of your earnings and sitting in their office all day. It's hard work. And granted, nothing spectacular is going to come out of anything less - but the scam is here, and the scam is that what they promise is unfeasible for ninety percent of people. I should have known something was amiss when, upon hiring me, the first thing I had to sign was a waiver of my labor rights and weekly hourly limitations. I should have known something was wrong when they didn't reimburse for gas, at least 40 miles worth a day - and they pressured you mightily to show up on Saturdays. This is your life, people - do you really want to spend literally 60-70 hours a week doing this? It's not worth it, considering that even if you are management material, they will string you along long enough to make you quit before you get there. I don't buy their promises, nor do I believe this is a healthy workplace. The people OI worked with, the ones there for only 6 weeks or so, they had bought the dogma hook, line, and sinker. Every person that took me out said the same things to me - "I'm retiring in eight years." "I'm never going to fill out another job application the rest of my life."

It's bogus, and if you can go and observe from an objective standpoint, you might be frightened to see the similarities to a cult.

One more fun little tidbit -months after quitting, I found a job listing for West Coast Ad EFX and promptly arranged an interview. The ad said something along the lines of "Must be a music lover." I packed my bags and resumes and wore my best suit, and soon found myself in the waiting room of yet another ghetto-ass tiny office. As I waited, an employee came out of a room behind the secretary. I peered in, only to see - horror of horrors - the dreaded Cydcor selling sign - rehash, eye contact, always be closing, the Quill catalogs, everything, everything, everything!!! They were all in there, and my idiocy had brought me back.

The ludicrously large-breasted receptionist got off the phone. "Do you have your resume?" she asked, sounding as though the phone had been surreptitiously feeding her helium out of its bottom end. "Uh yeah..." I replied, feigning an interested search into my bag, "but it looks like I left it in the car."

Needless to say, I went to the car, but I sped off, borne back ceaselessly into the past.

Well Well Well, They Strike again

It seems to me that Cydcor, DS MAX, TNI, Granton all came from the same womb of the Devil.

They all manipulate young growing minds into brainwashed sales drones, with promises of success and money.

I have to admit though, that these comanies are VERY VERY good for those people who have not had the oppurtunity to go to College (or took too many drugs). Where else could a non-degreed person with no entrepeneurial skills make just under 6 figures. It is good for those people. It is however, with dissapointment I add, that these companies take advantage of those who are striving for greatness.

I was said to be weak, because I left, but I have now successfully (with 60+ hours a week) opened and run a Real Estate Investment Firm in L.A. and actually had one of the Cydcor guys come in and try sell me Quill. I chuckled and out of pity without revealing my past signed on to his program. I am 21 and have succeeded, with my endeavors, but chose to do it the harder way: On My Own, so for all those people who said I was weak, shame on you for not believing in ourselves to start your own business.

I don't have endless amounts of money, and NO in all honesty my business does not pay me 6 figures, but it allows me to live comfortably, and it continues to grow. I expect to be paid much more in the coming years, and have done so through hard work. You don't need Cydcor or any other company to help you make it. do it yourself. Banks are waiting for people to start new businesses and if you look hard enough, you will find that the governemnt gives financial incentives to open a business.

For those of you who call those people who leave weak. You have no idea what they may go on to become, and serving Mc Donalds (sorry, cliche) to you in your BMW's is ridiculous:
Firstly because buying such an expensive car that devalues instead of investing in real estate that appreciates is stupid.
Secondly, because you guys may well one day walk into their office, to rebuild your fallen business, and offer them your services.

For those of you who have made it in those companies, Congratulations, you have truly accomplished something that many ave failed to do. When you see someone leave you office though, make sure you encourage tem in their next adventure, it will only benefit you to do this.

I am still very naive and oung in the business world, and have meny things to learn, and so if you are still in your early twenties and opening an office, make sure that you are professional and not act like spoilt high school kids who THINK that they are professional.

Have fun be real, and encourage people to tal about teir bad days. Find solutions for their bad days, and let them understand that everyone who works for the company is human, not a smile machine.

Congratulations, I'm Sorry and Good Luck to everyone who comes in conatct with this company, you will surely learn alot about the human race in you dealings with them.

AN OPINION FROM MEXICO

Hi to everyone, I'm from Monterrey Mexico and I just met DS MAX.

I was looking for a simple job where to get some money for a pair of weeks and I saw an ad on the newspaper, they were offering from 1,960 to 5,000 pesos (190 to 500 dllrs) / 15 days, so I went to check what it was all about.

The story you all know it, the shitty office, and a girl telling me to go next day for the "training" (they didn't told me about the confortable shoes), from the minute I entered the place I knew that it DEFFINETELY wasn't for me, but I just wanted something for 1 or 2 weeks.
The lady said they would do an evaluation to me and see how many people I was able to manage. So the training day (saturday) I went and I went to the field to walk for 6 hours with a supervisor, a very nice man who kept telling me about all his dreams and desires, he told me almost all his life and how he was going to become millionaire with the DS MAX system, I just nodded gently and smiled but didn't said nothing about that, so he started going with people and selling this kid's books, curiously I pointed him some things he could have said or do to get a sale, and he was the one that was teaching me mmmm... at 5 pm we finally went back to the office so I could take a "test" I passed it and started monday (that is the day before yesterday), they told me that I had to be at 7 am and the work ended at 6 pm so I presented myself at 6:45 am monday, they told me to go to the "conference room" which was a little room with a table and some chairs, and I sitted there and listen the "rules" of the company and their "statements", after the supervisor finished, I started asking him all the questions I had about the place, how did it worked, where was the head managment, I told them that I wanted to reach to the place where the international business where done, and the guy couldn't answer my questions so he talked with the manager, meanwhile I went to other room where all the co workers where chatting about the day goal and one of the supervisors (an 18 year old guy) started talking to me about how to make a sale and then started doing the acting like if I was a potential costumer and I pointed him his mistakes about his way to approach and how he scanned people with his eyes, so I was actually teaching again to someone who was supposed to teach me, then the manager called me and he asked me about my wantings with the company and if I my intention was to stay for a long time, I had an epifany, and just said no, he told me that maybe my goals weren't related to those of the company, so I told him that it was fine and that it wasn't my intention to make them lose their time, I said good bye and left.

I came back home and just for curiosity I started searching about DS MAX on the web, and I found the group in MSN and yesterday night this ripoffreport, I just want to thank to those people who have posted, I give an applause to Mark, Todd, James, JJ, and all those who had expressed their opinion and managed the insulting coments of some people.

I mainly write because I read ALL the messages posted here, I spent last 6 hours just reading them all, and I saw the last one is from Leonardo from Mérida in México, which is my country, and I'm horrofied about the fact of people not only deffending but supporting this methods.

As it has already been said tons of times, YES u can gain money (IF, and only IF you're one of those "lucky" 1%), but at what cost??? at ruinning several people lives??? do you sleep well knowing that everyday there's someone who's giving his life out there on the street so u can have that money in your bank account??? you do?? great!! so did Hitler!! so does Bush with those soldiers out there giving their lifes for HIS cause!!...

Now for those who might be thinking "ooh.. she might be one of those ignorant whining persons who didn't wanted to effort to make it"... I graduate from law last year, I know spanish, english and french and I'm starting learning italian and some japanese. And no, I'm not on the late 20's early 30's like someone said, I'm 21. And for that one that said that those against DS MAX might be like those bad losers from sports, I've been in lots of sports my whole life, swimming, gymnastics, basketball, tennis, I'm a black belt 1rst Dan in Tae Kwon Do since I was 10 years old, and I also did weightlifting during my college years being 3rd place in Nationals Youth Olympics and also in the National University Championship in the 2003 which was the year when I also finished my french degree, I won 9 gold medals in 3 different national tournaments in december of 2003, I've won and lost. Last year to get the law dyploma and working license I made my thesis in 3 languages being the first one in the history of my whole university in doing it, and I did all the work in 3 weeks.

SO YOU CAN'T COME AND TELL ME THAT I DON'T KNOW WHAT HARD WORKING IS BECAUSE I DO!!!!!!

I'm not afraid to have to work several hours as long as I'm having my reward, and without the need of stepping on dozens of lives to get it.

There is something called Ethic and something called Moral, I don't know if you pro DS MAX known them but they're good values.

You want to follow steps to success??? why don't u read the 7 steps for the Highly Effective People from Stephen Covey??? there are some good pointers, you should check specially the winning - winning part...

And now you're going to say, how could you know?? ... yeah I didn't even worked one day, partly 'cause they were scared of actually having someone questioning their method, but mostly because I didn't wanted to belong to that system.

What pains me is that in my country poverty is everywhere and I know a lot of people will give their lives to follow that dream, and I'm sorry but if I can do something to alert people not to get in that trap I will, and I'm going deep in this... maybe not now... but I'll follow the geology system, pression and time.

That's it...

PS I got intrigued for the names that were listed on the posts, I searched on the web and coudln't find nothing, just one web page with the Derek C. ... weird, he's a millionaire?? and he's not in the net??? and I'm a no one and u can see at least 6 pages of me.... there's one of me of the Stardust of the NASA, 'cause my name was launched to the space, there's another one of the CONDDE which is the Sports Comission of my country, there's another one of my professional exam in the portal of the UANL (my university), there's another one in universia.com also about my exam... etc etc...

YARENI VARINIA VILLARREAL CAMERO you can check if you want, I'm real and I don't hide behind a nick name or just a letter.

PSS For that person who went to Cancun on a road trip, you don't deserve to step on a sacred, beautiful place like Cancun, I think ur presence there must've been a reminding of the time when the Spanish people came to Mexico for the first time, the indians were aroused by them, they thought they were Gods and the solution to their prays, but in reality they were just a bunch of thiefs who robbed and raped everything they could... sounds familiar...........

ex employee

Look the truth of the matter is that Cydcor and it's "independent" sales organizations are a complete scam they disclose nothing in the beginning and will only tell you how the organization works as need be.

I worked for Gibson Rose in Emeryville AKA Cydcor and was bamboozled by other people in the company who themselves are jaded by the management.

When I was hired I was told that I would be able to start my own office in a year and all promotions are based on personal performance. Yeah right, you have to be a leader, build a team, INVEST $10,000 of money paid to you for YOUR work in overides which is your salary but your manager puts this money into a business account you can't touch???? OK! the truth is that there are some success stotries but the truth is that they are few and far between. Every office is competing to be the best... why? because they make no money unless the people sell. It's a no lose for Cydcor if you make they make money if you fail, they lose nothing.

Everything written above is true, I love how the owners have posted rebuttals about how it's not really like that. OH what crap! They care nothing about thier employees all they want to do is bend the truth to get as many people working for them as they can.

Oh and I worked for them for 3 months went to Top Gun and was told to go help open a new office.

Thank God I quit I hope other people will learn from our mistakes and stay away.

just an average Joe

I'm 23 and married 4 years I've got a 5 year old son and moved to my city to go to a major university. I curantly am working for dsmax and after working with them for 12 months I am curantly opening up my own office to make 6 figures. What we do is sell things that people use anyway, just at cheaper prices. $7 oil changes $18 pizzas for $10. $40 rounds of golf for $25 $14 movie tickets for $7 and major league baseball tickets (2 free tickets and 20 buy one get ones for $20 total!!!) You work your ass off, which they tell you going in. You do the things that noone likes to do. THAT'S WHY YOU MAKE SO MUCH $$$!!! It's simple and it works, you just have to put in the time. It's a servival of the fitest buisiness. PERIOD. And like it was stated earlier in this forum, if there is something better, just let us know, we'll work there. Good luck with that.

new location

alpinesettlementgroup.com is the website. address is 11811 n tatum phoenix az ste 3031. had an interview and came home did research and discovered the website was created 7 days ago and had a link to a esquire marketing site and the info snowballed from there. i'm glad i at least will not work for them.

Hoax Interview ..This job is clearly for the car salesman type or for people at the bottom of lifes barrel.

I've read many great comments. Cult? Maybe? One thing is for sure I wish I would have seen this site before going to my interview today. I would have asked more specific questions. I'm glad I went though as stupid as this sounds.

I currently am a contract Director of Business Development and was surprised at what I experienced. Three room white wall office with pictures you can buy at the gas station on Sunday's parked out on the lawn. They didn't even have a sign on the front of the building. Really, they are next to the business Sign 'A' Rama.

I thinks its obvious as I have read in the previous comments that I visited the office in "the ghetto"(Concord). Here is how the interview started. This character invites two of us into his office and from the get-go he rambles a million miles a minute. Halarious. I had to stop him many times and ask him to explain himself slowly. (I may talk fast at times but he holds the world record.) He could have told me he wears pink underwear during his ramblings and I wouldn't have known.

Anyway's, I walked out of there asking myself what just happened. The women that was in the interview with me asked me what do you think. I said, "Of what". "I don't know what he said." "Whatever you do, do not take this job." "If the interviewer can not talk slow enough for us to understand than he apparently is not worth working for or has something to hide."
I want to make sure that anyone reading this understands that I do not think badly of this company.

I want to make it clear that if you want sales experience and have zero like my co-candidate. Sell copiers, cell-phones, or office supplies. Those jobs are legitimate. You will actually learn something and can walk away in a year or two with some real experience that employers respect.

This job is clearly for the car salesman type or for people at the bottom of lifes barrel. Get a real job that people respect. Have respect for yourself. A salesman can always be told no and that's not a problem. You eventually will be told yes when you get your skills at or above par. But, no one wants to have someone say no and then they be little you.
Take care and beware.

P.S. Maybe someone from KRON 4 should check them out.

A Little blood, sweat, and tears...

I am not shocked by the negative comments on this site...there are alot of people who do not think very highly of this company. AND UNDERSTANDABLY SO! This company will force one to look inside of themselves. From the very first day I started with this company, I knew what I had to do. The 5 and 8 steps...the comandments of success.
The pivitol point in the business comes when things get tough...maybe a bad week or two, when a person has to make a decision to BELIEVE in himself and his abilities, KNOW that he will succeed, AND WORK harder...or quit on yourself.
I would be bitter too if I was forced to see myself as a lazy cow. I have been with this company now for 4 years...I retire in 6 years...& I am only 29. Starting door to door. God Bless America!

DON'T PAT YOURSELF ON THE BACK TOO QUICKLY

One of the things the office I worked at - Top Flight Ent. stressed was the "law of averages" - If only they had mentioned the "law of averages" that dictates that one person in several hundred might make it - and that person only does so not because they have any kind of admirable qualities, but because they are the ones who care the least about stepping on others, and have a better ability to keep a straight face despite their incredible lies.

A bank robber is really motivated and tough, but at the end of the day he is still a thief.

And Bob from Harrisburg: When you have to get your "company" name accepted, and share your office with other "companies" - you don't own squat, just a bunch of business cards.

JUICED BY THAT!!!!

sucker

How many people have you messed up to get where you are?

Ie: How many people went broke?


How many had their crews stolen?


How many times have you shut down one of your


outside deals so that they can work back home


with you and boost your numbers?


How many people have you sent on road trips


and had them come out in the hole financially


because of all the expenses?


How often do you have guys making less than


minimum wage - retrain other people - which


means splitting THEIR earnings - to further


your business?


SO sorry to find out I'm a cow. Let me bow to your superior business and way of life!

Creep!

The Good, The Bad and The Ugly

Well I didnt think this kinda list existed on the internet but at the same time I'm not surprised. I was and Owner in New Zealand with four offices at one time around the country. I Managed my business as a contracter for Granton Marketing.
The most I made in a year was $150,000 after GST (NZ Tax) but before tax...unfortunatley I had less than $20,000 saved at the end of the year.

The other 4 years were marginally profit years after tax and expenses. Having access to this kind of money left me believing I had made it and that a money tree was growing in the backyard that produced cash at will almost.

This was not the case. Admittedly half of the reason for my lack of saved cash was immaturety (even at the age of 28) spending up each week on office staff and contractors. The other half was the strong arm techniques to make me run my business the way and in the location of Grantons choosing. If I chose not to "then we will not supply you with any merchandise".

At the time I had upto 90 contractors working for my company and this would affect them. Little did I realise at the time they would have swooped in and taken them on as their own. So I did as I was told. This went on for 2-3 years and I spoke out more and more only to be verbally over-powered by the NZ Manager Stewart Hartley...I have no quams about mentioning names. Over time I lost belief and confidence with the group...even my promoting manager and lister suggested we leave and start up our own group in competition but alas promises of money to them seemed to be the reason for changing their minds.

I left over 3 years ago and so did 6 other managers soon afterwards.

The 'business' as we called it is great in theory but in reality a lot of good people have thier hands tied and mouths zipped. People that deserve a positive mention...Marcus Foot (lister) a good friend and real guy - full of passion...Neil Jackson (my promoting Manager) a hard arse at times but always fear and pushing us to strive to our potential...Granton Customer Services operators(numerous)- dealt with a lot of crap.

I tried to start things up on my own accord but Granton Marketing threatened legal action. That got my blood boiling so with my lawyers we avoided court and they backed down. Since then I have won clients that were theirs but because of the aggressive nature they teach people with sales, they lost them..and many more.

I took all of the things I enjoyed with the 'business' and got rid off the rest. Everyone I have working with me makes more money and works shorter hours than ever before...because I got to run it the way I wanted to. M-F midday-8pm.

No weekend or holiday work...they actually have a life now. Many people that worked with me in the past still have contact with me and even work here in between study. Because their is no middle man ie Granton and I sign up clients myself their is now more mony to go around hence the contractors making between $70 - $100/day average.

They also get team overrides to give them incentive to develop people on their team. My interviews are like a sales pitch with the pitching card. I show them the maps and explain in detail what we do. Nobody starts without the full story. My conscience is clear...my business is based on people not profits.

I sell less cards than Granton Offices do initially but the people in my business make more money than the others hence less expense advertising and lower overheads. Overall this is what the business in my eyes is supposed to be.
My goal is simply to make things right. I already have had 5 people leave the other offices to work with mine because they can see this. Many more will come as I expand. To those in the business watchout. A few other like me have joined and are moving in.

Thanks for the heads up ..The company obviously dosen't have sound business practices

First off I would like to thank all the honest people that have submitted their comments. I have read most of them good and bad.

Currently, I am employed and work a 70hr work week and love it and make good money, however job stability is an issue, hence my interest in Arnese-LeeI had my 1st interview recently and when I walked through the door, the three roomed poorly decorated office, set me off. Something just didn't seem right.

Having worked with various ad and marketing agencies and have seen their sleek office chairs and tubs of toys and products they have been accumulated just didn't seem to match up with the job posting.

Besides with all the large accounts one would think they would want to show off there achievements! Needless to say a company with which appears to hold many discrepensies of character, reflects directly upon those who own and manage these offices.

The company obviously dosen't have sound business practices, so why tarnish my business reputation. Thanks to all for helping me make my decision not continue forward with this company

Here's why i quit and what others should consider beforing starting.

Ds-max is an opportunity and you can make it happen. I was too weak i valued a life, a healthy diet, and SLEEP too much for me to make it happen. Can people earn money from DS-Max? SURE, but you can earn money selling your body on the street, that doesn't make it a good work environment. Working about OR OVER 12 hours everyday for 5 or 6 days a week you could make 300-400 dollars. MY week i made 257.23 cents. My total hours were 59. If i was being paid 7dollars an hour i would have paid 413.00 and that's NOT including OVERTIME!

When i got into the business i did start making more money, and it was great to work with people that were positive about what they were doing.
I did enjoy the "meetings" and energy of the office, but had no energy to include most of the time.

Here's why i quit and what others should consider beforing starting.

I spoke with my boyfriend maybe 2 hours a week, he felt as if i was disconnecting him from my life. My family too, working all day long, coming home in search of food and water and LETS NOT FORGET SLEEP, who had time to return calls? Not me, i wanted to sit down an finally close my eyes! So my family was very concerned since i was always calling them to see how everything was going with them. So straight to the point I had no time to go out on dates, no time to hang with friends and no time to have a LIFE!

But that's not all. My friends /family / realationshis don't run my life in making decisions. I had no time to shop for food. Yes you do have sunday off, but you had no time to sleep during the week so getting out of bed sunday was almost never an option. So eatting at work (IF your leader stopped for lunch) was fast food. Then when you get off work, who wants to cook? so MORE fast food.

I hardly ever had a healthy meal or an actually meal. My last week I had time to eat about 4 times in 5 days. My body was overly hungry, but i was always too tired to even chew. I came home jumped in bed because i knew i'd have to get up early, take a shower, get dressed, do my hair, make myself look professional and work until the sun went down.

By my last friday i went home and i had to clean my place up and make myself look as if i wasn't in a nasty car reck. My boyfriend was coming over and i didn't see him in 3 weeks, so i couldn't tell him i was too tired to spend an evening with him. He hardly recognized me really, i had dark spots around my eyes from lack of sleep, i was weak from lack of food and i had nothing to say. Well he ordered pizza and i swear it was almost painful to eat anything at that time, and he looked at me and then it clicked in my head.. WHAT THE HELL AM I DOING TO MYSELF?! I can't look good for my man, i can't take care of myself, I LOOK LIKE A PATHETIC EXCUSE FOR A WOMAN! but i was making money. He didn't comment in words but i knew he didn't like how i was letting this job run my life.

That night i turned off my alarm clock, unplugged it from the wall and didn't show up on saturday.
But i'm happy i didn't...

Now i'm sure everyone is going to see things in different ways... but my way is one way... and that last week was hell for me worse actually, parts of the day my body would be numb, my stomach would be in knots, and i still squeezed out smiles and excitement.

If you're just reading this and you've never worked for ds-max try it out, it might be right for you, but chances are it's not, so why put yourself through hell to find out you can sit at a desk typing letters and make MORE money.

Cydcor Sucks

I am writing a report of a cydcor ICL by the name of Niko-Laos. The manager of this ICL is named Eddie Sardinha. He is the most passionate, energetic, and motivated liar that I know. He will act as if you are the best of friends and than stab you in the back when you are not looking. He always preaches about honesty, integrity, and loyalty. On a daily basis, he does not demonstrate any of the above. I suggest that you stay away from this company unless you want to work 6 days, 70 hours a week and sit in a cingular store selling bellsouth to customers that dont need what you are trying to give them.

Do Something About It

All of these accounts of people's experience with Cydcor are very interesting. They are all VERY similar to my experience except that I saw through them on the first interview. I told the woman mid-interview that this would not be a good fit for me. She proceeded to laugh at my resume and tell me, "Yeah, I was about to say the same thing. It's obvious you don't have what we're looking for.

The reason I didn't have what she was "looking for" is that she recognized fairly quickly that I've been around the block a time or two in the Marketing Profession. I have a BS in Business Administration with a focus in Marketing and Advertising Management. In addition, I REALLY DO have almost a decade of experience with Fortune 500 companies carrying out REAL Marketing tasks, not door-to-door, B2B cold-calling.

Anyway, my point is that in addition to sharing my experience with Cydcor, I'm going to do something about it as well. That's the important thing. People need to expose these scam operations in order to get rid of them.

I don't want these people in my town. They give the Marketing Profession a bad name. So here's what I'm going to do. Feel free to use my actions as a roadmap of yours.

I'm a media expert. So I'm going to alert all my media sources about Cydcor. I'm going to contact the Dean of the University Business School I attended and tell him to spread the word about this organization among graduating students of Marketing and Advertising Management. I know the Dean personally.

I'm going to contact as many National Internet Job Boards as I can, especially Monster.com, and let them know yet another scam-running company is ripping off job seekers, especially those new to the Marketing and Advertising Profession.

I'm going to contact the local chapter of the American Advertising Federation, which I used to work for, and let them know about this scam. I know many of it's members and leadership. I will encourage them to pass the information along to the National Leadership.

Let the Cydcor leadership blow smoke and call us losers all they want. They've now received the attention of a real Marketing Professional who knows a scam when he sees one and is very effective at mass communication. Call it professional self policing.

One last thing. The local Cydcor franchise, of course, does not go by the name Cydcor. They have another name. When you arrive at the very bizarre interview you’re told, “Oh well we’re ACTUALLY Cydcor.” That was the only BIG RED FLAG I needed. If a company can’t tell you their name up front, run away from their office, fast!

rectify thes malevolent misguidances

Charles, everyone else: do a google search for "DS-MAX the aftermath." DS-Max is Cydcor's sister company - you'll find a whole group discussion of people's misadventures (to say the least) while chasing impossible dreams. i think you'll find it helpful. good luck.

You Might Want to Read This! I'll Tell the Truth!

I have been there before. I sacrificed a lot to earn the success I achieved. I left college because I saw an opportunity where I could learn more. I do not regret it one bit. I owned one of the 20000+ offices DS-MAX, CYDCOR, and GRANTON districbuted to. I left because I burned myself out and lost my drive. These things happened because I let outside things get to me. However, anybody can do what I did as long as you work hard and have perserverance.

I will say this though, this type of business is not for everybody. Some of the people associated with the company are hypocrits, but some are the most hard working, nicest people I have ever seen. I did everything from AT&T, Clearance, CSI, any GRANTON promotion, and I was also one of the people who helped put Wheelchair Sports on the map.

This company may mislead to get you into the first interview, but if the first interview is done right then there should be no confussion. Most likely, you will on your feet all day(even as a manager). The payoffs are great and the experience of what ou learn is priceless. You defintely have fun, make friends, and have the possibility to make a lot of money.

My closing thoughts: if you decide to work with one of the offices, just do not forget your friends or your family. Also, when there is a day you did not have fun; first, check yourself and if you did not have a good attitude then fix it. second, quit because you make it happen good or bad.

P.S. I finished school and am doing well with the tings I learned from my past.

Been there...Done that....The truth after 2 years

I have read what some have said in earlier comments regarding DSMax and, although I've been out of the company for 5 years now, sfter working for 2 years for the "company" here's MY 2 cents. Do with it what you will.

First off, anyone who "thinks" they have a full understanding of the company after only seeing it for only a couple days (or some a couple hours), I think it's fair say you had a pre-judged conseption of the company based purely on the fact that it was door-to-door and never really put any effort to figuring it out.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way saying it's for everyone. What I am saying is that it does give a potential "opportunity" for some who may not find it in themselves elsewise.

Now for the Good, The Bad, and the DOWNRIGHT Ugly.

In the WINTER of 1996 I, like many before me, went on what was called "a day of observation". Here in Toronto the division I was observing was selling Toronto's largest newspaper (I choose not to mention it's name so as not to spread any ill-will fealt towards DSMax). The girl I observed, I can honestly say, had no sales skill to display outside maybe a very beautiful appearance. In fact she sold NOTHING. It was only the fact that I understood it was door-to-door and that I would be paid $20 for every deal I sold that I decided to give it a try. In all honesty I didn't do great, but I was able to make at least $300 every week (3 deals a day, 5 days a week avg(I usually took the weekend off))
Unfortunatly though, not everyone is that lucky. In fact on the team I was with, I was one of the highest selling reps. One guy actually only made $15 for the week (and he was what they called a "leader"). Which brings me to one of the first Bad things about the company. Since "promotion" is based on sizes of teams, many "leaders" tend to string along the hopeless who kid themselves into thinking they can actually survive on what they make trying to figure it out.
After selling the newspaper for a while, the division's next client was a natural gas wholesaler for whom we signed up customers for a 5 year contract to recieve fixed pricing on their natural gas supply. This was one of the GOODs of the company. Natural gas was, what we called, a "cash cow". For the 6 months this went on, my personal average pay was @8-12 hundred dollars and many good reps, many which college students, were able to save enough money to even pay for a year or 2 of university.

Through the 2 years, I saw many ups and downs. From real promotions to good people just leaving without a word. But of all, the DOWNRIGHT Ugly comes down to not so much the company DSMax itself, but the laziness and greed it does create out of it's promoted "owners" and the actions they take. In my case my owner held me back so that he wouldn't have to return to the feild to make money.
As it works, a manager/owner's money is made in overrides on every deal the reps in his/her office make. In my case, my owner only had 2 people directly under him and then their teams. If anyone on his team got promoted to manager, his override share would be cut drastically. My team was the largest making the most money for his office, so when I got 3 out of 5 of the leaders I needed for promotion, my "days of observation" were cut off almost entirly, and those I did have were the saddest bunch of lame-asses you could ever set your sights on. It was after a year of this that the owner of that office pretty much admitted to doing this, only since the girl whose team I was on was finally promoted and, since she chose to locate herself in BC, he was trying to convince me to stay in Toronto under him. This from the guy who flat out tried to take 2 of my leaders out from under me to open another office in Saskatchewan. Needless to say, I wasn't about to trust this guy. Instead, I chose leave My team behind and travel out to BC, as far from him as possible, where 6 months later I finally walked away.

It comes down to this; DSMax is a door-to-door company. Some people can make good money and go pretty far, learning skills and confidence which, at many times difficult to learn, they can use in the future while others waste precious time they should be using at a regular job, since they'll never understand it. Some people your forced to work with will turn out to be great friends while others you hope to see in your headlights as you floor the gas. And finally, every office is different. While many are still doing the same old thing they were taught and water it down as it goes along, others are changing how things were thought to be done, and growing in the process. It's definitely not for everyone, so don't pre-judge based on what others, less informed, have to say about it.

If your only choices are between going door-to-door, or applying for a government welfare check, I'd have to say TRY Door-to-door out first, you may surprise yourself. And if you're worried if you'll get paid for what you do sell, it's been my experience that if people weren't being paid with DSMax, why would so many still be there.

Rebutal to "Do Something About It"

Although I have written a long winded assessment of DSMax and my experience, looking back I feel I must comment on what Charles of Portland, Oregon had to say in his response title "Do Something About It".

First off, the actual office you appied with is usually incorporated under their own name and registered under that name. They themselves are NOT Cydcor, rather they are a company under the Cydcor/DSMax umbrella and Cydcor/DSMax act more as a supplier of knowledge & product just as, excuse the reference, the United Way funds it's many charities without any real direct involvment.

If, as you say, you have "almost a decade of experience with Fortune 500 companies carrying out REAL Marketing tasks, not door-to-door, B2B cold-calling" it bears to be asked, why are you applying to some obscure anonomuse ad found in your local newspaper or job board.

When it comes down to it, it sounds like it just wasn't your cup-of-tea. Others on the other hand may get alot out of it including money for actual work rather than degrading themselves by appying for welfare.

So long as the products they sell are real, and don't have to scam a customer out of their money for nothing, there's really no harm in what they do.

Whether you'd care to admit it or not, MARKETING is a fancy word for sales. And whether its done going door-to-door one-on-one with a customer, or through a mass marketing television campaign the goal is the same. To sell the customer on a product or service. So don't knock those who are willing to do the hard way, it still works.

YOUR LOSS ..All of their positive energy made me forget about my negative attitude

I must admit I was very sceptical for my fisrt day on the job. The first thing i noticed was that yes I was only one of two who had been chosen to be apart of the company. Then i saw the "atmosphere" and saw all these peppy people at 7:45 int he morning when i really was wishing i was back in bed sleeping. I was blwon away by everyone's excitement and sort of freaked out.

At the end of my first day training we came back again for atmosphere and i kept thinking my god how can they b e so darn chipper after having walked all day long? Then it dawned on me. All of their positive energy made me forget about my negative attitude and i looked forward to coming back in the morining. I had a bad night and when i went in the second day in the morning i forgot about it and started to smile and join in with everyone. You see they dont do this peppy atmosphere to "brainwash" anyone they do it so you can feel good and want to come back the next day.. I think all companies should have this highly positive attitude thats what helps us to feel good about ourselves and want to come back the next day for the same continued support.

I went on my first road trip this week (actually this was also my first week in the field alone) and made $1300 profit. Thats about what i was making at my last job in a month. I realize now the opportunity IS there and you have to have the goals and dedication to move forth and succeed.

Furthermore, I dont know what offices some of you have gone to where its ghetto. The office i work for is beatufil in a prestigious office building with a breathtaking view of the city. My manager is brilliant and real and can relate to us. He inspires us to work hard to reach our goals. Tell me why this is a bad characteristic or a "leader of a cult". I just think you bitchers have no long term goals and expect money to be handed to you on a golden platter.

Oh and by the way two of my boss's Assistant Managers are going to be in thier own offices by the end of the month and my leader who trained me will take over one of their positions. She worked her ass off for it. Now how is this a scam? I see the proof and i see the slackers who fall off the ladder as the diligent ones pass by to the top.

I find it not only insulting and distasteful but also grossly inaccurate to assert that the only career options people have are MLMs and welfare.

Many people leave MLMs and go on to be very successful in a more traditional career. In fact, most Americans are lucky enough to never get involved with an MLM, but somehow we manage to secure an average income in the U.S. of over 40,000 dollars per year, and that's not because MLM agents are making so much money that it balances out the rest of us poor folk. In fact, most MLM employees (yes, I said employees) average a net annual income that is well below minimum wage. Asserting that MLM sales work is the only road to success is a ridiculous scare tactic used to keep people from leaving the organization, and it's even more absurd that you would try to use it on the informed consumers that visit this website.

Also, the relationship between an MLM corporation and its individual offices is not at all like the relationship between the United Way and the charities it donates to. The United Way does not exert administrative control over individual charities; MLM corporations exert a great deal of administrative control over their individual offices. The only reason the individual offices have names that are different from the parent company is that this shields the larger corporation from liability as a pyramid scheme. This relationship is more comparable to the relationship between Pepsi Food Services and an individual KFC franchise. Believe me, if MLMs could legally carry out all of their business under one company name they would do it, using different names for each office is just a legal maneuver.

No way I'm going tomorrow.

After reading these comments, there's no way in Hell that I'll go to the first interview! Lucky for me I decided to do some research tonight. I knew something was fishy when I was sent a generic email asking me to call them to set up an interview.

THANK YOU ALL FOR THE WARNING!

peace

I wish I'd looked at this site earlier

My experiance wasn't quite as bad as several others that have posted on this website, but it was still deceiving none the less. I saw an add for Lear Marketing Group looking for some people to work in customer service and a management trainee program.

I went a head and applied through the link on the website. Within a few hours, I received a blanket email asking me to call 614-846-xxxx to set up an interview.

I called and they were very eager to get me in, so they set me up for the next business day. Now, some people have talked about rundown offices in the ghetto and stuff. Well this office was a brand new building in a very upscale suburban area of town. It had 3 rooms with music coming out of one room. The receptionist was very nice and seemed very professional. But the app seemed just thrown together.

Now I was told I'd be interviewed by the business owner, but when I got there, they said he was at another office in NC that day, and I was interviewed by an early twentysomething asst manager named Sara. She didn't give much info about the job and she said that all my questions would be answered if they invited me back to the second interview which was to shadow an agent in the field.

I was definitely naive and said ok. Of course that afternoon, I heard back that they wanted to have me come back for that part. I went out with the agent and then found out it was all commision sales going door to door. That agent that day told me that he always averaged to make $200+ a day. But, I got a real uncomfortable feeling about it when he started the Quill pitch. He became real pushy and I could tell the business people that we saw that day were becoming annoyed. He told me on the way back to "Atmosphere" that he had to make a certain amount in sales to get to ring the bell. "Atmosphere" completely pushed me over and it became apparent that there was some brainwashing going on.

I have been in plenty of sales positions where I was dealing with setting up million dollar accounts for actual services such as transportation and yet only had to work 40 hours a week from 8:00 to 5:00.

This day which was a waste of my time that could have been spent on other more important things lasted from 7:30 AM to 8:00 PM. Now I'm not against working hard, but I don't believe any job should take that much time out of your day. Needless to say, that trainer that took me out had been in the company for 2 years.

Now the interviewer told me that in 6 months I'd be in management and would not have to go out into the field again. She failed to tell me that only a minute percentage of the people actually will get into management, she just told me that I would. After reading all the other posts here, I will make sure I steer anyone I meet away from pursuing this "opportunity".

Things that are wrong with this world!! a rebuttal to 'Owners' rebuttal

let me make an informed statement on the following quote from the 'Owners' re-buttal:
'And no i wasn't brainwashed either, and no i don't brainwash my people now either, I was shown what I had to do and did it. Here's the deal, I will get rebuttals to this and they may say POOWWWW!'

People who have been brainwashed are brainwashed into thinking they havn't been brainwashed, thats often why people who are cult members do not realise they are in a cult. The head of the cult devises a plan to make others get others by brainwashing unsuspecting victims. Only after deprogramming(or self deprogramming) and healing from their experience do the cult members often finally believe they where brainwashed and in turn Brainwawshing others.

my friend, you have been brainwashed to the nth degree so that possibly even Deprogramming will not save your Individuality from their clutches. however we all remain hopeful that you will see the light before the darkness surrounds you. i liken you to the character who Nicholas Cage played in 'the family man'. A man who may have money, but does not have one true friend, until his guardian angel shows him his life as it could have been had he focused more on the social and helpful and kind side of life, and realises that deep down inside he longs for this life, but his true feelings had been represed by the fact he had money.

you are like this man in many ways my friend,you may keep telling yourself you are not being brainwashed and that this dsmax lifestyle is the only way to live, but let me tell you now it is the loneliest way to live. in time your true feelings will only be repressed by your onesided mind, and when this happens two things can result, you will leave swearing like my self to help those caught up in the company's evil web of deceit, or your deepest true longings may be destroyed and you will become a hollow desensitised man-drone of which i fear that you may have already become. if you are already this man, then you are the personification of what it wrong with this world.

let me quote one of my fav movies:
"your a feminist!!! maby thats whats wrong with this world, there's just too many ist's in it. Racists, Capatalists, showvernist, the only ists there should be in this world is HUMANISTS"
- 100 girls

first day all i saw was screaming idiots

I was "employed" if thats what you want to call it, by ds-max for 18 months. from the beginning i was skeptical and going into thier office only made me more so. It was in the middle of nowhere and the first day all i saw was screaming idiots. Then i was wisked away in a car with a "leader" packed down with boxes leaving little room to sit. When i questioned him about where we were going and what was all the stuff for i was told very little. When we arrived where we were to work for the day he loaded me up with plastic piano keyboards and told me to follow him. He pitched people everywhere, in stores, in streets, in cars. We were yelled at by shop owners and had the police called on us. At the end of the day he had a very large sum of money in his pockets and stated" see how much you can make". After the second day when having my own large sum of money was dissapointed to learn that i did not get to keep all of it. I walked away from a 10 hour day with $24 in my pocket. I could not afford my apartment after a month because i wasnt making anything. So the Owner was NICE enough to let me move in with him, and 12 other people that worked in the office, all in a 3 br townhouse. I was only charged $6 a day for rent. after two weeks i was promoted to "leadership" and could start taking people out on my 10 mile a day walks trough parts of town we had never been. I felt bad decieving these people and keeping them in the dark till the last minute then telling them "You can work with me today or walk back to the office" I had 3 leaders on my team and was starting to realize that no matter what i did i was still going to be broke. I walked away with virtually nothing after 18 months. My car had 20,000 more miles on it and my bank account was 0. This whole dream that you can be an owner and make millions is just that...a dream. I gave it a more than fair try. I ate, slept, an talked, "JUICE" I was the top leader in my office for several months.Every time i asked if it was my turn at ownership the reply would simply be "NOT YET".

Just about all of it is true from the weird interview to relocation over and over again.

I can not believe I found this site. I went through all the things that have been said here. Just about all of it is true from the weird interview to relocation over and over again. I stayed about 6 months all together. The only thing that keep me going was the money. I was so good at selling those merchant accounts to businesses. I was making anywhere between 800-1200 a week with no problems. I finally got so tired of moving and having no life, meaning never seeing my friends and family. They told me I would have no problem finishing school by going to night classes to finish my degree in marketing. Well, that was fine for the 1st week. After that I was put down for wanting to leave to go to my classes and missing the night atmosphere. Then after I made leadership, my leader wanted me to go away with him to help open his office 2 states away. I did it thinking it would just be a week (so I was told). When I wanted to go back to my home and my team, I was told my team was given to others or left so I had to stay there because there was no opportunity for me back in the home office. All they did was promise me my own office and all the perks of being an owner. I quickly made all my requirements to have my own office(leaders and revenue) and was given nothing! My loser leader ended up leaving the business and all of us in an empty office and went back to another office even further down state. I learned a lot from these people. If it sounds too good it usually is! Beware and be careful.

let me guess how they talked about you anna

You were great with the numbers. They probably made you feel ashamed when you had personal goals. They probably made you out to be "salesy" if you said something different from what they wanted to hear. Right when you went out the door to help your loser leader they were probable turning your crew against you - dividing them up among themselves. Thank god you finally saw the light. You are a strong woman and I wish you luck. Glad you are more informed now.

Noble Marketing, DK Promotions, Kinetic Solutions...I had NO IDEA!!

Thank goodness I came across this website in time! I posted my resume on Careerbuilder.com, and was extremely excited to be contacted by Noble Marketing (Cincinnati, Ohio) DK Promotions (Columbus,Ohio), and Kinetic Solutions (Powell, Ohio) After going to all 3 interviews, I noticed some definite similarities, but thought nothing of it.

Each company had a small office, with limited decorations, and a definite lack of personnel. The same person that called me was the one who interviwed me, and I never saw anyone else in the office. They all said the same thing, that it was a "cross training" program for a "management position." The first interviews were very brief, and each company said they'd call back later that evening.

I was called back, and when they said not to wear high heels, I started to wonder why. That's when I started poking around on the internet, and came across this sight. Thank you so much for posting things like this, I just saved myself a trip to Columbus tomorrow, THANK YOU!!!

If it looks like a scam, smells like a scam and acts like a scam, you have very right to call it a scam

Maybe calling it a scam is too harsh a word. It's not really a scam; it's just a.... no, I suppose it is a scam.

I worked for DS MAX in Australia for about 6 years. I was promoted to Assistant Manager four months after starting and shortly therafter opened my own office in a new city where I knew no-one and where there were also no other DS MAX offices.

I was as pumped as the vehement owners that reply to these posts here. But my office failed after about a year and I had to leave and go to another city where my original owner had moved to open another office.

I worked my ass off out in the field again and made it to ownership once more. I saved about $40,000 in a year or so and after about two years or so I promoted out three owners. The problem was that I couldn't send my promotions where I - and they - wanted to go. There was always some VP telling you where to send them. Not very "independent".

It was about this time that I started to question the ethics of the company, and what I was doing. There had been many things over the years that made me stop and think; but my doubts were always assuaged by the incredible bank of motivational crap that had been downloaded into my brain.

Yet now I felt myself returning to the good, honest, sincere individual that I was before I was turned into a greedy, win at all costs, money and success (whatever definition of the word you choose to use) obsessesed idiot. The final straw was when we had a government agency enquiring into the companies' activities. That was when the attitude of "head office" changed. They cut the cord and let us swim for ourselves. Not that there was any serious trouble; we just had to modify our advertising. Yet, the attitude change of the VP's always remained with me.

A year or so later I closed my office and have had no contact with the company for about four years.

Just a few facts to set the record straight.

ADVERTISING - I have been to many, many owners meetings where other owners and VP's tell you how to advertise and interview. Never have I ever heard one of them say that an owner should tell a potential recruit that their O Day would involve door to door sales. Now, anyone can come back at me with a thousand responses, but that is just outright deception. Of course, they hope that most people will get caught up in the excitement of it all and forget that they were lied to. Yet, I have a sneaking suspicion that this 'first'lie stays with people for a long time. I never forgot it, and I'm sure most people to whom I lied didn't forget it either.

COMPANY SUPPORT - The company supports you as long as you:
A/ Toe the line and regurgitate the manifesto or
B/ Make them tonnes of money

BRAINWASHING - There is no question in my mind that the techniques used by DS MAX constitute brainwashing, yet there are many other examples of other companies that use other tactics to control their staff. Uniforms, jargon, meetings, incentives, harrasment etc are all forms of brainwashing. Yet the insidious part of DS MAX is the manner in which they take over the lives of their people. The amount of time, the laborious meetings, going out with your crew to the movies or for dinner, calling them on Sundays. Gimme a break! Why? Why do they promote these things? Why do they want you to "get with" only positive people? Answer: To keep you cocooned in a shell of their own making. Just think, If you were a steadfast capitalist and you were kept in a communist village of China, without news from the west for ten years, constantly bombarded with Chairman Mao's propaganda, you would probably end up being a fully fledged communist too.

Now, they may argue that this is true; they are making people better, turning them into millionaires.. yeh yeh yeh... How many of these "millionaires" are retired? Apart from Murray (who started it). All the others, as far as I know, still go to work day in day out - Even Larry and Avie, last I heard.

INDEPENDENCE - There really is none of this. You are the owner of your own business, and yet VP'S and others would chastise you for not doing something, or they would 'decree' that the next owners meeting would be at a certain time and place and you would be compelled to attend; not legally but psychologically. You have to pay your own airfares etc. The most money I made in a single year was just under $500,000 gross. Out of that I saved about $50,000. The rest was spent on office rents, bills, telephone calls, and then the enormous expenses of advertising (about $1500 per week) and flying to all these bullshit owners meetings where the same thing was said over and over...programming the bullshit into your brain. And I never once in six years ever took a break, or had a day off, other than the times that 'head office' was closed over XMAS. Independence YA!

YOUR OWN CREW - Probably the thing that I ended up hating the most was opening up the office everyday to see the same old faces; guys that had been around for years and never even come close, thinking that they were going to make it. And me telling them that if they keep going they will make it. That old chestnut "There are only 2 options; winning and losing.If you never ever give up, the only option left is to win." Yeh yeh...

And this brings me to the point of my argument. The thing about DS MAX - and all other MLM companies for that matter - is this:

These companies (The real owners) are in it to make money for themselves, not you. They will run their companies to best profit themselves, even if it means you (the distributor &/ or owner) will be disadvantaged. They care nothing for you. The more distributors who will work for free - because that is what you do, they outlay nothing - the more money they make.

The other important thing is twofold;
1/ Not everyone who works for DS MAX will be an owner. By this I do not just mean 'the law of averages', (ie.60 distributors = 1 new owner.) I mean that there are people out there who will NEVER EVER be owners because they do not have the ability, make-up, charisma, intelligence, savvy etc etc. I DO NOT CARE what any DS MAX owner says about this. Owners are not "made". They might be improved or have their skills honed, but never once in six years (and that means thousands of applicants) have I seen a person walk into an office and I've thought "oh that guy/girl will never make it" and they did. NEVER. And I would estimate that I have personally known about sixty or seventy owners - you do the math.

2/ There is no special "opportunity". You have the same opportunity working at many other businesses. There are plenty of stories out there about 'truck drivers' who ended up running billion dollar transport companies or 'window cleaners' who ran billion dollar corporations. Here in Australia, the McDonalds CEO began by making hamburgers. You do not need the bullshit from DS MAX to become rich if that's what you want - there are other opportunities out there. And that's why I'm here, to talk about Herbalife... Only kidding! There's another story...How much time have we got?

To finish off, I must say I have mixed feelings about writing this; I did learn alot about people and about myself working at DS MAX. Yet the experience turned me into someone I didn't like. It became a habit to lie to people (simple little lies - short stories they were called), it became a habit to play with people's emotions, to toy with them and try to get them to do what you want them to do, because they want to do it, even if you know it is not in their best interests.

And to set the record straight, after six years of making money, losing money, making money, losing money, I left because I hated it... And it had nothing to do with 'failing'. I was a success. But now I'm more of a success; because I love what I do, I happy... and I am ME, not some manufactured drone with a carbon-copied personality.

One last thing. To all the gung ho owners out there: Please do not bore me by responding to this message and referring to me as a loser, and unsuccessful. My definition of success may be completely different to yours. And, though it pains me to say it, because it makes me sound like a DS MAX loser again, I have over $100,000 in the bank, I work part time at home and make over $1,000 per week while in my third year of full time university study. (There, I used the only language that you understand - $$$$)You can believe me or not , I really REALLY don't care. And you know what? I care nothing about money. It means nothing to me. The reason I put the income part in is a pre-emptive defence. If I just said that I didn't care about money, I'm sure some DS MAX loser would have said some stupid banal comment like "the only people who don't care about money are those that don't have it.." etc etc

PS When the next owner replies to this message, could he/she first please answer this question.
Who do YOU know, out of the millions of people that have worked for WWI /DS MAX / Granton that started out in the field - that is now retired?

I'll bet if you are truthful there is not a one.

PPS There was a comment I read from an owner asking why we ex DS MAX people bothered to post messages here and "neg" other would be millionaires "out". Well, I'll tell you why I want to write this:

I believe that it is unconscionable to conduct a business that is based on deception; and like some greedy alien monster keeps perpetuating itself through the comsumption of one hapless victim after another, ruthlessly seeking the next propagator through which to multiply. My other reason was cathartic. I wanted to vent from myself the guilt asssociated with those wasted years of lying and deception, and thinking that I was something, when in reality I was just a little cog in a wheel called Murray, Avie and Larry. How many swimming pools can you swim in Larry?, How many cars can you drive Avie?
How many gold watches can you wear Murray?

All the others I feel sorry for, Murray, Larry and Avie... You disgust me Mark.

A GREAT PLACE TO WORK

I am just writing this to tell all those nay sayer's who like to “knock” door to door sales because they only tried it for 2 days then gave up on themselves; It's your fault for not preparing your selves socially for the job. Go out and talk to all kinds of people especially those you wouldn't normally speak with. What you will learn will surprise you I guarantee. And this social knowledge cannot be learned in school or in a book; it comes with hands on practice as most character development things do.

FTB PROMOTIONS HAMILTON ONTARIO
If you then decide that marketing is your type of thing then it is in your best interests to find a company/business that works for you. 8 months ago I was thrown out of my parents house and things just weren't working out for me. I answered an ad that was for a marketing company called FTB Promotions in Hamilton. The President of the company (MR. D. HARBER) whom works very closely with all of his employees was good enough to not only give me a full time job immediately he fronted me some money and found me a place to stay. It was probably the nicest gesture I have ever encountered. And the longer I worked with the company I grew to realize that Daryl was the most respectful, generous, employer I have ever had. With his great amount of professionalism and positive attitude he should be a role model for all business owners. The company is well rounded and has a great client base. The contracts are always for great companies like sprint Canada, which makes it easy to make money as opposed to selling garbage bags and light bulbs like some other telemarketing jobs I have had. My first few days were slow at times for selling but immediately I was given a coach by the company and with an increase in confidence and product knowledge I was making between 800-1000$ weekly, I don't know of many jobs you can make this kind of cash. Most people find door to door sales a bit tedious however working with FTB is like no other company I have seen before. What makes the job different is the exciting atmosphere, constant encouragement, and being surrounded by positive attitudes. My coworkers who are now more like family members always are willing to help each other out and the sense of competition while still present doesn't prevent this from happening like it does in many workplaces. I love this job, and am advancing quickly as there are signs of expansion ownership in my future. I can only hope that when I own one of these businesses for myself I will run it as respectfully and efficiently as FTB Promotions is run.

I KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN...

I have also been on this site many times and never wanted to voice my opinion. However, since reading Mark's posting I felt the need to tell a little bit of my story and share my opinions. I was with "the business" for several years. I was in numerous divisions as well. It took me less than a year to become a manager. Much like Mark from Australia stated, I also spent years building offices and losing offices. I made money and lost money. Most of the time it was the later. But I always kept going. Stayed "juicy"no matter what happened. I was convinced that "if you work hard you'll get ahead." I WORKED MY ASS OFF. And I finally got tired of the crap and quit. I did learn a lot from DS-Max. I won't say all my time was wasted. I will say that I lost a lot money because of other people's bad decisions. Open up in this city, go in this division. Guess who always got the blame for it? ME. The truth is DS-Max is just a game and you have to know how to play it to get ahead. Just like any business. You have to be in the "right" organization. You have to know the "right" people. Most people do not have the ability to run a successful a business at the age of 20-25. That's why so many are "shut down." You can't tell me that spending more time in the field will help you get better at running an office. PLEASE. Just like Mark said, you can tell just by looking at people who's going to be an "owner" and who's not. But then again we all know we each just play a role. "Some people are starters and some people ride the bench". That's a great attitude to have about people. You do not run your own business. You are a branch manager for Cydcor, Granton, Ds-Max, whoever. You DO get the ability to call the office whatever you want, but NO you do not run the office as you like. Think about taking a Saturday off - no way. Let "the guys" come back early - are you crazy. Want to take a vacation that's not an owners meeting - nope. Spend time with people who aren't in the business, your family, friends - it doesn't happen if you want to be an owner who's "setting the pace". When things don't go right - you do get to handle all the negatives. How many other owners are in debt because of "their business." I have to say that with all my rambling about the bad stuff, I met a lot of good people. Many are still my friends today. Those are the memories I take from DS-Max. The rest I try to forgive and forget.

Jonathan's 5s and 8s

TO: Jonathan from New Jersey who wrote that stuff about the sex 5 and the 8s (scroll up)... You are the worst leader in the world. You should be fired from DSMAX because it's dishonest lieing cheating people like you who give DS max a bad name.

You are the reason why these companies have a bad rep. How can you go to sleep every night knowing that you just lied and scammed to make a deal? What about sleeping with your clients? I know for a fact cuz I was there as your trainee, remember?.

You slept with someone to get a deal while I had to wait outside. Oh, what a stud you are. It doesn't matter what they look like, who they are, guy or girl.. you'll do it if it earns you money. You should be fired on the spot and god help anyone who has to work for you. You are dishonest, a scammer, you lie and diseave to get your deals and ugh! you make everyone sick. Thank god I quit and I hope janine doesn't back u up when u open your own office IF that ever happens.

Oh and don't deny sleeping with clients for a deal since u admitted it in your 5s. choade. What a WONDERFUL BUSINESS TO WORK FOR.... NOT!!!

the company has been very good to me

hi everyone my name is adam i am from the toronto area in canada i was living a descructive lifestyle in canada and moved to atlanta georgia with my wife and two small children i responded to the same ads you all did but on monster.com, i met the office owner of wentworth marketing his name is ed and he is a very nice and honest man he gave me the job and within 9 days i was leader, i have been there 1 month and got 3rd best sales rep in the country in my 2nd week making 1450 dollars that week working the bellsouth campaign. im in my 5th week and my wife left me and went back to canada with my daughter and now i have my son with me ed gave me time off to figure out what i want to do and if i can find someone to watch my son i can go back to the office and work. my leader derrick has been awesome to me and very helpful and they all want to see me succeed and come back. i understand the hours are long and not for evryone but it is not a scam its an opportunity, if you all met ed and worked in this office you would feel the same, nothing comes easy in life and you can own your own office i guess you all met the wrong people and that sucks but there are very good people in this company under cydcor, and you can be successful and financially independent.

ed does go on trips and not just to managers meetings. he went to england for a week to see his parents, you have to be good at the job to go far in the company and i know i can do it. if i have to move back to canada im going to find an office in toronto to work at because i believe in it so good luck to you all and think about why you failed it might be you not the company!!

I have no clue how I ended up believing all this true lies about this company.

I was a Sales Rep., Adimn., Asst. Manager

To begin with they tell you to pick any State in the US for your future "office", you are strictly not allowed to be Negative eventhough it's 10 Degrees outside, they bring they story of Murray when he was in Canada in the going DtoD in the winter time, eventhough a dog chased you down the street or even if you get bit by one, you actually get a name for being such a cry baby.

Any way this company is a scam because I was in the business for 3 years and everything that was told was a lie we worked the extra mile everysingle day, and if for some reason only one member of the team made money there was the phone call from the manager who promoted us to the new office asking why only one person made a sale, they don't take excuses they just want their money, and DSMAXX's money as well. We moved so many times helping people in their new offices abvoiusly we paid for the move and ended up in a big debt and a bad taste in our mouths.

The only good comment about this company is that you get trained very well to be Sales Person with out having to pay for a course or so.

Once you get brainwashed is hard to have a regular job, since they call this people cows and (DSMAX)are called rhinos, they make you feel superior above everysingle human, when you are the one who is actually a retart believing that you are the best.

Anyways I'll keep praying for those who are still in the company for 2yrs or more believing that they are going to open their office anytime soon. And for those who just started it's still time to get out of the business.

Don't Waste your time.

Hi everyone. I just wanted to know a couple of things.Why do you people worry so much about all of this? These are the same people that were only in the business for 4 hours or 6 weeks or whatever short amount of time they were there and the now think that they have an educated opinion of our business, and yes i say our business because i am speaking for all of my partners and other owner's in Canada and the USA. At the end of the day you all went on day of "obs" because why?

You were looking for a job right? of coarse you were.Now i'm very sorry that you didn't see something that you like or the owner was ignorant or your particular interview was in a ghetto.

Maybe they didn't tell you it was D2D or B2B and what i'm saying is that most of the reports on this site are mostly true. In all of your cases you got the short end of the stick and i truly appoligize for that.

If you decided to stay then you know that you don't get a pention or benifit's and yes you have to pay for your roadtrips and pay your retrains, but isn't that what owning your own business is all about.

We as owner's have an obligation to tell every newstart that they will incure all of these costs and they agree to that so what is the peoblem here? i have read all of your complaints and as i said they are all very valid, but why waste your time?

If you were in the business and you didn't get to mangement ask yourself why, don't blame everyone else for your problems. I am an owner so of coarse i have a good opinion of the business, but all i did was work. I had all the same negatives that i see on here but i just used them as positives.

I had no money when i was a leader with 12 guy's on my crew because i had to pay retrains and went on roadtrips and sometimes lent money to my guys and they would blow or never pay me back but that was a loss that i was willing to take to make my business work.

And no i wasn't brainwashed either, and no i don't brainwash my people now either, I was shown what I had to do and did it. Here's the deal, I will get rebuttals to this and they may say POOWWWW!

Or Hammertime ZZZZAAAAP! but you know what I just want all of the people on this site instead of taking (in some cases) Hours or days or even your life's now devoted to bashing the DS MaX oppurtunity go out there and find something more suitable for you and leave this in your past. People in this company either make really good money or they don't make it, or they just make money but everyone no matter the financial situation left on good terms you are the few people that got left out and im sorry for that, but get off that computer and get your walk on and find something you love because i can speak for about 18 000 owners and all of there contractors when i say that i love this business.

Thanks a lot for your time ladies and gent's. Juice By That? ........Juice.......
Lame rebuttals Are Welcome........

Owner in Canada.

Sales is not Marketing

Just FYI to clear up obvious misperceptions -

Sales is not marketing. They are very different. None of these so-called 'marketing' companies are doing any marketing. Nor are any of you getting 'marketing' experience.

Marketing is:
- A lot of research.
- Defining what a product is/will be and how that product/service will 'fit' into the marketplace.
- Before you can position (we're not even close to selling yet) a product you need to do a great deal of research to determine things such as who might buy your product, why would they buy your product, how does your product compare with substitutes, how are competitors going to react?......etc.etc.etc.

In easier terms, the goal of Marketing is not to 'make a sale', rather it is to determine the how & why a product would sale.
.....The sales people take that information and put it into action.

Vocabulary lession for Cydcor!

Thank you for mentioning the definition of marketing because you are exactly right. Sales does not equal marketing in any way shape or form. I would just like to add another term that has bugged me since the day I started for a cydcor office back in May.

Business to bussiness marketing:

Cydcor uses the term by saying it means going door to door to every business. Litterally going from one business to the next trying to pursuade people to sign up for phone service, office supplies, or shipping services.

Any educated business person knows that business to business marketing should not be taken literally. It means when one business buys something from another business that is not usually advertised in a commercial setting. It by no means means walking from one business to another. I loved when my manager used to make funy of "days of o" that did not realize they would be soliciting door to door all day when he told them they did business to business sales. He had no clue that he was misusing the term and he was the idiot, not the person being interviewed.

One more thing...."Neg out" or any form of that phrase is NOT a word!

Through taking your advice and anyone elses in dsmax - that is what got me in trouble to begin with

Just shut and let your mlm cult continue to misleed people without anyone to warn them. Just ignore what I know you do. Act like an ostrich with my head in the sand.

No thanks.

5 and 8 steps

i believe that there were a lot of valid points. I did this when i was 18 years old. The job is definately not for everybody, it's not for most people actually.

I used to complain all the time about the long hours and inconsistency with pay, but it just motivated me to get back out there. All in all, im glad that i did it.

I tought me a lot about communicating with people and made me a tougher person. Now would i leap at the opportunity to do it again? probably not.

But if i did, i know i would be one of the best at doing it. My question is for anyone who remembers the 8 steps to success. I remember the 5 steps to a conversation, but i really need to know the 8 steps to success. If anyone can help me out, hit me back

Learn from your experiences, y'all

I read with a lot of interest about your posts, particularly about Cydcor.

a little about myself: MBA grad-to-be, and aspiring business person. Was curious about all the fuss (because it was everywhere on Monster.com), etc.

Now, I was offered an entry level position a few weeks ago, but I never went, because selling office supplies door-to-door isn't my cup of tea, especially after my SC MBA. Plus, I intentionally did everything I wasn't supposed to do during an interview, because I simply wasn't interested in being a door-to-door salesperson. I was there to scout for future ideas. So, I was truly surprised when that office offered me a job. I figure that if this office would hire someone who behaved the way I did, there must be something wrong with it.

So, I did some research, from Hoover.com, this site, Cydcor.com's site, etc.

My conclusion: I think all of your responses are legitimate, whether from former employees who were ripped off, or from one former VP who was still making about $80,000/year but had to lie about making over $200,000 a year, and a few owners who apparently have really made it.

I have a different perspective:

I think Cydcor has a good business model. POOR execution, but good business model. Poor execution because apparently, in the name of doing business, Cydcor has really screwed up its reputation. However, we can't deny the fact that it is built on a brilliant premise: Many of their clients are legitimate Fortune 500 businesses who are looking to cut cost by outsourcing their "front line" sales force. It benefits those companies, because they don't have to pay Cydcor (or owners of the offices) until sales are made, so no fix cost, just marginal expense, like commission, etc, and probably a low fixed fee to Cydcor HQ. But, no 401K, no insurance benefits. Good cost saving for the clients.

It is really good for Cydcor, because Cydcor probably gets a cut of commission from all these offices, "leaders", and others. Probably plus a set annual fee from clients. With 1099, Cydcor is saying it does not have employees, just "contract labors". So, it does not have to pay employee benefits as well. So, good money for Cydcor.

Of course, it sucks that Cydcor mistreats the front line employees. BUT, that's why it is constantly recruiting, because it realizes the business will have high turn over rate. As the old saying goes: There's one sucker born every minute. The nifty thing about this concept is that Cydcor does not have to pay for high turn over, because cost of training new employees are bored by "business owners", or Leaders, or whoever. I know the guy who took me around on that second interview paid his own gas, and was driving a miserably used car trying to survive. He is lying to himself that if he can just weather this, he will become wealth, because that assistant manager above him is supposedly making $150,000 a year.

As for me, I think I will start my business emulating Cydcor's business model, with a few modification of course. I probably wouldn't go for commission based only, and probably wouldn't make it 1099 and "business owner" bs, so that the costs are absorbed by the firm itself, not by its midlevel managers (or "business owners"). Sure, this business would be less profitable than Cydcor, as the cost will be higher than Cydcor's basis. But at least I can rest assured that I am not cheating people off of their money and labor, and that I won't have all these disgruntled former employees trying to put a price on my head.

YOU DS-MAX DEFENDERS ARE CRAZY

I worked in one of the HEAD OFFICES of DS-MAX for 3 years, not a couple of months. I saw first hand how the company treats there employees. When I started the company seemed great I was in the freight department so I dealt with the owners and HUB managers on a daily basis. They loved me my first 2 years there, after my first x-mas party I was JUICED up, you could'nt tell me anything. I was coming to the office sometimes at 6AM and leaving at 7PM with no lunch. After my first two years I met my fiance and my priorities became different, I started to put myself, and my health first before the job. That is when I was black listed. Needless to say I was fired because they did not like my attitude. I began to see the company for what they really are. I started asking my immediate supervisor why the owners would lie about getting merchandise, and why they would open up companies under an alias. Why some HUB managers were not doing their jobs properly but were still getting more offices. Do you know that some HUB managers give birth at 8am and by 12pm the same day are doing settle ups? One HUB manger had a baby one morning and I received a phone call from her at the office, I said to her, "what are you doing calling? Congratulations on your baby." She said, "Oh thanks, I'm calling because I need to know how much some books are that my guy moved." I said, "you have got to be kidding me you just had a baby, who cares about work." She said, "I have to get my work done." I said where's the baby?" She said, "Right next to me on the desk." Now how crazy is that, that whole story is TRUTH. I will not reveal her name because she is a very nice person. I asked my supervisor why women are dropping babies and not taking time off, she said to me, "THAT'S DEDICATION". I knew from that time on that I could not spend anymore time at this company. DS-MAX and all of it's affiliates are unprofessional, and as soon as you question their work ethic you immediately become an enemy. I worked my behind off my 3 years there, I helped put together a department, I trained people, I put my heart and soul into the organization and they slapped me in my face. Don't think the same can't happen to you.

5's and 8's

5 steps:
1. Introduction (Sex)
2. Short Story (Kiss)
3. Presentation (Possession is 9/10 of the law)
4. Close (Pubs)
5. Rehash (Put 'em high and watch them fly.

8 Steps
1. Have a great attitude
2. Be on time
3. Be Prepared
4. Work a full 8 hours
5. Work your teritory correctly
6. Don't lose your attitude
7. Know why you are here and what you are doing
8. Take contol

Now I know why I am kept in the dark and only told the "information" that I need to do my job.

I am an employee of a DS-Max subsadarie. The company I work for has been very secretive even with me. I only know certain information enough to do my job. I was trained to do "interviews" for these poor souls who come in to find a job and all they find themselves in is this crap!

I have heard the boss rip people apart when he is not happy with their work as well as doing it to myself. I come home to my family worn out and unhappy with a paycheck that is really nothing and my self esteem torn to shreds.

They advertise that they have "openings" (not employment) for positions of sales and marketing, customer service, administration, warehouse/inventory and entry level management. Yet all of these positions seem to merge into one - business to business sales.

With their lies they waste so many peoples time day in and day out with "interviews" and "days of observation".

It is only recently that I really found out what the company is all about from a disgruntled person who told me to look up the company on the internet and this site is what I found.

Now I know why I am kept in the dark and only told the "information" that I need to do my job. My morals and values have been lost in this company. I have had people tell me off after being one of the "days of observation".

Everything I have read on this site makes more and more sense to me as I think about it. The conformaty, them living together, the chants. I see what these independant contractors make and it is usually only $4.00 - $5.00 per hour when you work out the time spent in one day. And that is on a pretty good day!

My advice, Don't get caught up in this shit! Everything you read here is all true.

QUIT if you don't have it in you!

Well atlease SOME people agree that this is a great company. I work for them right now in Moncton, NB..Well DSMAX is our distributor. This job rocks and people are very understanding. People who quit and are complaining at the moment are people who didnt try or simply, don't have sales blood in you. I've been there for a month now, YES they wnated to use my car at the beginning but unlikee others like you, I told them that i was gonna use it once a week for the job and they said O>K. I'm making 110$ per day in my pockets and no I'm not working 65hours per week, I stick to 40-45hrs. People who get mad are pople who let themselves be controlled and absorb everything that they either they like it or not. I stick up to myself when they tell me something I don't like and guess what?! They listen to me and they wnat to eep me because not alot of people stay because they are afraid to speak up. Another thing, around here, I get telled off by an owner once a week maybe less...All of new brunswick love us and are happy to see us when we walk in their business..their first words are "What do you have for us today!!"....If you have salesman blood in you,like to talk to people and is very money oriented, this job is for you. If you say no to any of those 3 questions then dont even go...but this job is the best I've ever got and the experience is awesome and it looks good ona resume. I'm only 19 and I am making more money than my brother who is a computer programmer and making over 50k per year and he has univeristy degree, I have nothing. So all you people than are disgusted by this company well keep it for yourself cause i guess it just wasnt for you.

Please wake up! people who worked their way through the ranks, became owners and realized then that in actuality, you never really own anything at all

Daniel, Actually there is probably more people that USED to think it was a great company than what think it is now. If you are in it for the so~called opportunity, I sincerely hope that you read as many of the reports on here as you possibly can. You'll find that it has nothing to do with, "Having it in you," or not because you will find numerous accounts of people who worked their way through the ranks, became owners and realized then that in actuality, you never really own anything at all, you get very little time off & there's no benefits. The people who get to that point are few and far between and you can't tell me that none of those tens of thousands of people, "didn't have the sales ability," to make it in a ligitimate sales career or in a business of their own.

You make $110.00 a day. I take it that that means that you have not made it into, "leadership," yet. With this so~called business, what the word leadership means is that instead of the company paying the new employees, the so~called leader you} will have to pay them. In my office, that amount was $40.00 a day. At that rate, you're making 350.00 per week. That's before taxes, car insurance, gas and medical/dental/vision insurance. All of that is your responsibility.

As for not having to drive everyday, that will change. You've been there a month. You are still in the honeymoon phase. They are still dangling the opportunity worm in front of you. Once they have you hooked all the way, they will soon pull the string gently and, slowly but surely, reel you all the way in. It will be so gradual, you won't even be aware that they have you hook, line and sinker {mind, body and soul.}

Also, please tell me how at $110.00 a day you're making more than $50,000.00 a year? Oh yeah, that's right, that's dsmax math. The only thing that compares with their math ability is their spelling and grammer!

Check your math, Dan

Dan, I appreciate that you were able to give a somewhat honest account of what it takes to make it in shaky marketing endeavors (i.e. an aptitude for sales). I hope you convey that reality to potential recruits down the road, but you'll probably find yourself recruitless if you do.

I think you need to check your figures. You say you're making $110 a day, and also that you're making more than your brother, who makes more than 50k per year. Unfortunately, these two statements cannot stand together. At $110 per day, if you were working every day of the year, you would still be making more than 10k less per year than your brother. Given that you state you stick to 40-50 hour weeks, I'm assuming that you work 5 day weeks, which would actually place your yearly income around 25k, less than half of what your brother makes.

Income statements from MLM agents are worthless. The whole field has been impeached. To give you all the benefit of the doubt that I am wiling to give, I would imagine that $110 days are the good days, and the average is somewhat less than that, say around $80. I've been in a field making money on a day-to-day basis before, and I know that when you want to impress people with how much money you make you give them the "good day" figure. Reducing our figures further, your income would stand at about 18k per year.

Now, given that your brother probably enjoys many benefits that you don't (paid sick days, health insurance, 401k, possibly bonuses) I will wager that his total annual compensation is at least 54k.

When reality is figured in, your brother probably makes three times as much money in a year as you do, as opposed to you making more than him. Even figuring generously he's probably making twice as much.

All in all, you sound like you're doing alright. I hope everything keeps working out for you. Just don't let that marketing fog cloud your brain too much.

Yeah but... dont forget that 50k-taxes and all the crap that comes with it

Thanks for you advice and comprehension guys but... Do not forget that I am only a student and that I am using this for a short term job until i get a better one. Also, dont forget that 50k-taxes and all the crap that comes with it makes it an awful lot less than 50k. Here, the boss is very understanding. I told him that I was going to use my car twice a week and when I already did and he asks me I say no and its O.K. I told him that I wasnt gonna work on saturdays and it's O.K. I am not getting hooked here, I even told him that I didnt wnat to become leader and he said fine . hehe cause I knew I'd have to pay neew recruits and trust e I didnt wnat to cause I worked for that money. Well I was just saying...Some of the people here are placing complaints about this company and they might be right at times but some things can be avoided if you stand up to your bosses and tell'em your limits. Anyway thanks for your responses guys! see ya'll! For me the important thing is having fun and my group is awesome so I'll stick around for a bit.

Looks like typical dsmax programming to me!!!

If you're just in the business for a job and not the so~called opportunity, you'll probably be okay. I am glad however to hear you say that this is just a short term JOB until you get a better one.

If you WERE in it for the so~ called, "opportunity," trust and believe, you wouldn't get, "promoted," if you were to, tell your boss your limits, as you put it. In fact the owners I knew didn't mind having people like you around because you still make them money.

Just curious, do you go to the office for the "atmosphere?" You know those few hours before and after your already long day that you don't get paid for?

Your coming bacc at us with the tax crap info as you put it, looks like typical dsmax programming which as usual doesn't add up to anything because it's like comparing apples to oranges. Even with the taxes, you can't be making more than him.

Reality Check!!!

I have been working with DS-Max and it's related companies for the last 4 Years and have NEVER had a complaint! I have worked no hareder than any other "Job" I have ever had and have reaped tremendous rewards. I started out as a distributor and worked my way into ownership.

I make a high 4 figure a week income and have a wonderful relationship with Ds-Max and the Distributors in my Office. Yes, we are excited and JUICED up! Yes, we are a bit silly at times, because we are always wlking around with GREAT attitudes.

The point I am making is that your failure to be successful in this business is no ones fault, but your own. Each independently owned office provides the product, tools, training and motivation to be successful at it, but it is ultimately up to you. I walked around business to business for over 6 months and I still go into the field. If you didn't understand, enjoy or have the drive to finish what you started, so sorry for you, but it DOES NOT MEAN it's a scam and it certainly doesn't mean that other people can't or should I say Won't be successful at it. I would much rather be here with DS-Max than in anyone elses "cup is half empty" world. So good luck to you in your future ventures, but don't knock us, because you couldn't do it! Oh, by the way, the only way to fail in this business, is to QUIT!

All your owner is doing is biding time.

Daniel,

All your owner is doing is biding time. The fact that he CAN retain you in his business after you having seen this site is a feather in his cap. He must be a good talker.

Leadership can't be forced. It must be desired by the individual. The longer you hang around the atmosphere and get inundated with the pyschology, the more you will come around to wanting to be a leader.

In the mean time you help pay his bills.

If you quit, oh well, you made him some money. If you want to get to leadership, you will help him grow - but most likely never grow your self beyond the leadership phase. Maybe before you go back to school you will hire one or two other people for him.

Be very sure about taxes. Don't just follow blindly the I can write off everything at the end of the year line. You can't. There is no free lunch.

Good luck to you.

DS-MAX IS FULL OF CRAP

DS-MAX IS SO FULL OF CRAP. I JUST WORK FOR A WEEK AT ONE OF THEIR OFFICES AND FOR SUCH LONG HOURS AND BARERLY ANY PAY. I MEAN I CAN WORK AND A DONUT SHOP AND MAKE MORE MONEY THAN I MADE THERE.

THE DAM HOURS ARE TOO LONG IMAGINE NOT SEEING MY BOYFRIEND FOR 10-15 HOURS. HE WAS SO PISSED. ALL THEY ARE DOING IF FOOLING EVERYONE. I WOULD NEVER WORK FOR THAT COMPANY AGAIN.

I don't believe you.

You've never had a complaint????!!!!

So all of your days of observations know EXACTLY what they are getting into?

You have no big turn around number with your employees?

All your customers that you have signed up for what ever company you represent have never complained?

The reality, Anissa, is that most of your applicants don't know what they are getting into and that you lose most of them before the day ends. Also, a good number of your reps sign up people by misleeding them - either because they are poorly trained or because they are greedy.

It is typical of your mlm organization to brainwash people into believing that they are in the best thing possible. Getting people to be in a positive state is good for making money AND it gets them to not pay attention to details like all the money they are paying out for transport, sharing their commission with new recruits (who mostly quit and walk away with there money).

It is also typical of your mlm organization to put all responsibility for failure back on the rep. You take no responsibility yourself. If they make money it is because they listen to you, but if they are flat broke from following your system which you teach them - you just tell them that their attitude is off and put all the blame on them. Fair weather Ds-max managing at its best!

You are in a bad bad bad business!

THEY ENJOY TRICKING YOUNG KIDS

I had literally come right out of college and went into this job. they promised me all sorts of money. my interview was in the upper darby office. apex marketing was there name. i was in there for a total of 5 months. i was doin great the first month on road trips and everything, but then it all seemed to fade away. i lost site of the job because i didn't enjoy walking miles a day and not allowed to leave the office till 8:00 at night. the best part was when you didn't have money the manager would give you some. ha ha that was great. i knew people who would ask for a few hundred bucks and never come back. serves them right. its how they like to keep you locked in. like you owe them something for them giving you money. i regret fully that i even went into that interview. i figured i would get a job because a family member of mine was sick, and my family needed the money so seeing a chance to make $100,000 in a year would sound great to anyone. but i never got to see my family or my girlfriend. i had no friends but the people in the office. i started to see how sick this job was and how delusional i was. i got out of there at the right time. i had decided to go back to college when i quit and i have never been happier. i would also like to know if anyone on here worked at the upper darby office or is now in the Philadelphia one. i also went on road trips to NYC,baltimore,north carolina,virginia and long island. i would like to talk to others who have quit that i may have met. thanks

That is some impressive training!

So I just got back from my second interview. You know, the one where you "shadow" one of the top guys to get a feel for how the day will go. Well, the guy who trained me was with the company for about three months. I was also not told that the job was 100% commision. Needless to say after that point I had just made up my mind to mess with this guy all day. This was fun because this guy drank the company cool-aide. He was such a team player. I asked him what type of training he received and he said this, meaning one day on the road with another "salesman". I thought back to the office, and yes it was just a temporary space until the Chicago location opened. There were these girls all dressed in high heels ready for their first day of marketing. Somebody should have told them to wear some track shoes and get ready to drive/walk around economically depressed areas selling water coolers for "Malloy International". This kid tried to give me all the pep talks. You know..."It is up to you how much money you want to make"..."What scares you about 100% commision"..."Im making more money than I know what to do with". Oh yeah, I also found out that this guy lives with his parents, is on thier insurance, and really has no concept about taxes and reporting expenses to the IRS. Now that I have went on my little rant here is my point. If you are lucky enough to be reading any of this before your first or even second interview then dont go. I found this site after my second interview. Had I read it I woudlnt have went in a million years. I know that job marktet is tough but getting in on this pyramid scheme isnt worth your time.

DSMAX Aris ..new name for the same old rip off game.

Just a word to the wise. Another DSmax child (Aris)is now operating in WA state with an office in Federal Way and Lynwood. All of the previous complaints and obvervations are repeated in this new place and name. I laughed when i heard about the receptionist and loud music, it was just the same! Way too funny, and yes, just a new name for the same old rip off game.

Your all just jealus

I'd like to say that I've been in the business for over a year now and it's been nothing but good to me. I used to think the only way to achieve anything and be successful was to pay $20,000 in tuition fees. I paid $15,000 for nothing and it was hard to find a job. This company has taught me how to run a business and the best part is the freedom. I've been an owner for 8 months know and this is the best thing that's every hapened to me. My boyfriend and I clear over 150 k per yr and don't have to do any work. Sure we sacrifaced alot, but those people were just holding us down anyways.

All we kneed is each other and the business. We keep the top guys, the new juicy guys and people with potential in our office happy. We call them on weekends, hang out with them to see how their doing. Sure we have high turnover, but we only keep the guys that want to be in the business. We get rid of the guys and girls that don't want to work hard.

And to show you how good we are, this girl in a similar situation as I was, in debt because of university, came to us for part-time job in February. Sure it was still snowing a bit and cold, but she was willing to endure it. She didn't become a leader until April, but we've already promoted to her assistant manager and is willing to sacriface to get to the top. JUICE BY HER! She's making good dough and I think going back to school would be a big mistake. Hopefully, she'll make the wise choice and stay with us. The business is better than school. More money more expierense!!

JUICE JUICE JUICE!

Jealous of what? ..glad that it's helped at least a few people see through all the BS

Your superb spelling skills? The way you spelled experience is simply mind boggling. Good for you! JUICE!

Anyway, I was the one who started this report a year and a half ago and I'm glad that it's helped at least a few people see through all the BS. I pity the fool who works for this company because there are better things you can do with your life. I had a great job working with children for awhile and now I'm working with a non-profit organization that means a lot to me. I urge everyone who is fed up with companies like this to follow their dreams and find something that makes you happy and has a positive affect on society.

Either you're a part of the problem or a part of the solution. What's your contribution to life?

Annisa please!

Finishing what you started is a satifaction gained in all areas, except yours. What satisfaction will you get when you reach ownership? Is it the satisfation of submiting name choices for "your" company to be decided on by DS-Max? Or will it be the excitement of getting relocated to a pre-determined location with a crew hand-picked by someone else? Or, better yet, is it the realization that you've finally arrived in this company when you can blatantly lie to a prospective employee (independant contractor) without shifting your eyes? Oh no, the real finishing touch is trying to convince your crew to live in your apartment because you can't afford the rent by yourself.

I KNOW what finishing is. I've framed half-million dollar houses. I was proud of my work and new that the family moving into those houses wouldn't have anything to worry about. I had a genuine sense of pride in what I created. To think that you could be proud of hawking goods without warranties, or consider yourself successful becuase you could persuade others into doing the same is sickening.

You work for a company that survives on lies and deciept. Not one "Independant" company places ads that inform the potential employee of the fact that they will be door-to-door salesmen.

So what is it that you finish that you are so proud of? A lie? Way to go, you should be very proud of yourself. Dirtbag.

Responces from Employees ..interview with a Cydcor Inc "marketing firm". It was exactly as described in these postings,

I recently had my first interview with a Cydcor Inc "marketing firm". It was exactly as described in these postings, the office was not decorated, a hand written sign outside their office in the office building, which was the only indication to me that I was in the right place. The interview was only 15 minutes and there was an overly enthusiastic receptionist there.

After coming in with a copy of my resume, I filled out the application and she stapled my resume to it. I know that you should always bring a copy of your resume with you to an interview but I thought it was weird that ask you to bring in a copy for them when they obviously have it if they are calling you in. Anyway, I went through my interview and the I was asked more questions that I felt were relevant at my first job at a local pizza place. With that and the fact that I could not find any information on the company anywhere, and the fact that on the job board I found the company from had one name, the company weeb site was another, and then yet another showed up on my caller ID when they called, I was real skeptical but still went in for at least the interviewing practice. After finding this site prior to my 2nd interview I will not be showing up.

The real point I want to make is by reading these rebuttals, only 1 responce from a current employee of many did not put those down that quit. As stated in many responces, it is not for everyone so why criticize those who do quit for quitting???? I may have went in for the 2nd interview just to see for myself until reading the responses from current managers or owners on this site because I am not putting myself in a situation for a stranger to put me down cuz I am not saying what they want to hear or doing what they want me to do. Thats what friends and family are for and I already have plenty of them doing it.

Come on guys im ready for your NASTY rebuttals!

Ok. People on this site put reports on it saying that they were in ds max and had a bad experience or many bad experiences. Then people come on here to defend our company only for the same four people who have nothing better to do rip them apart. I do see a lot of bad things on this site about ds max but they are all from people that didn't make it or from people that continuously say "with your outfit i am 16 000 in debt and bankrupt and whatever else. or that someone frames houses and they feel like they have made the world a much better place because of it. Hey guy who frames houses , first of all juice by you for doing what 90 % of the world won't but my question for you is why is it that you honestly didn't suceed in ds max? is it because of the owner? or that you had to pay your retrains ? or was it the road trips? maybe the hour's (few, 50 to 60 hours, i may have to really work). or maybe you don't really know how to manage money. Anyway some people do succeed in this business and i guess x man or juice , todd , james and that other guy didn't well the thing is guy's their is thousands of people in the company and tons are sucessful and making money. i know it can't compare to your "honest income" but it does pay the bills and you know what the 36 people in my office are having a great "lie free" time(believe it or not). At your new satisifying jobs i am willing to bet you use the 8 steps everyday don't you? you miss ds max dont you? i knew it. thanks guys just wanted to say hi from my little office up here in Canada. Oh after 1 year in my "Outfit" i have 30 000 net. one outside deal, owner's ring, a house, car , and a happy family, and im only 21. OUCH i bet that hurts.... Oh james i need a big house with a pool built can you give me a call...
Come on guys im ready for your NASTY rebuttals!

HAHAHAHAHA Ima, are you sure you're ready?

You know, part of being ready comes from knowing what you are talking about. Every verb I used when talking about framing was in the past tense. It was what I did during summers when I was in High School and after my freshman year of college.

That brings me to my next point - I wasn't invested in DS-Max. I worked for Top Flight Ent. during the summer, between semesters. I thought that the whole thing was really creepy with all the chanting, loud music, question dodging, and everybody had a flight-attendant's sincerity. But I was told that I should make at least $350 to $500 a week, so I kept an open mind. I busted my ass in the field for four and a half weeks, until I got my first paycheck. At this point I realized that it was ALL BS. I ended up averaging $215 a week, and that doesn't include gas, food, mileage, etc. I also found out that that was pretty much the average in the office - not $350 to $500. So I left before the damage really got bad. At this point though, most people are so brainwashed by the idea of some magical "opportunity" that they go on, no matter how financially devastating it is.

So, to answer your question, Ima, I didn't succeed in DS-Max because I wasn't trying to succeed. I didn't wan't to be like all the losers in the office who carried chips on their shoulders because they were "going to be leaders/managers/owners in x amount of time". Instead I returned to school in the fall (despite my owner's and co-worker's objections).

One thing I find hilarious is when you mention the eight steps as something DS-Max invented. The idea that the principles of working hard and showing up on time are confined to DS-Max workers is really funny. No, these work habits are not unique to DS-Max, but to label them to make them easier to remember for morons and chanting, that is a DS-Max original.

But Ima, here is the final exam to see if you really are ready, or if this is yet another load of BS:

Please name one independant source that can verify the claims of 15,000 owners used by every manager/owner/leader for recruiting, defending, etc. Also, please provide a figure detailing how many of those owners end up going out of business. And, if you could, please provide the avg. annual income of those 15,000 owners. I mean, you use these figures all the time, right? Don't you want to make sure that it is valid?

Good luck!

go on ahead

Defend the mlm cult. You are just like a spokes person for David Koresh defending the Branch Davidians.

Anyway, I'd rather frame houses than live with the guilt of influencing people to stay in an organization that drains you like a vampire.

Hope you wise up and quit.

To the above poster...Ima - OSHAWA, Ontario

I worked for a similar organization called Ecommerce processing, at least the business model seems similar. I only did it for a few weeks, and then the office fell apart and everyone in management left the state. Surprisingly, I was the only person in the office who ended up closing a deal.

I wanted to let you know that your writing style is similar to that of a grade school drop-out and it reminds me of the typical door to door manerisms. You constructed one of the worste paragraphs I have ever read in my life. I got an email from these jokers at Cydor for a job and I am sure glad I read this. No way in hell will I waste my talent with another scam-sales crap company.

Regards,

Are You Ready Part 2

What do you know..... the same four people that i mentioned in my report are the same four guy's that had a rebuttal. and the guy that got a e mail from ds max / cydcor is no longer going to ever check out ds max because of my grammer????
hey juice by you, guy. Doesn't this all show that you don't have to be the most intelligent guy to do this? But you know what guy , i guess i am perfect for this business because I am just a regular guy with little education and skills then anyother guy or girl that has came into our office and i made it to a position that i feel i could have never been if i wasn't doing this. I own my first house ..... and yes i own it , not the bank. the ds max oppurtunity has givin in one year then probably all four of those guy's have gotten in 2 years. And todd and james , you guys are the funniest two guy's i've ever heard, on complains about 16 000 in debt with our "outfit" and the other guy rants about roofing our helping people with there lives building houses , then takes it all back, saying he did it in colage. I passed by a burger king when i was flying threw Pittsburg, was that you working there. Where do you guy's get the right to shoot people down for giving you facts about the company trying to glorify why they are doing this and you rip them apart. this is why i posted something on this site in the first place. Have you ever heard the term "NEGBAG"? That's good because in my office that i own we kill "negbags" with positive's and you would be beyond repair. To be honest with you i don't know or promote the whole 16 000 office thing either, but i know there are a hell of a lot of us. And my business is going nowhere but uphill. as i said in just 4 months of being incorperated i have a house, car, 30 000 net, an assistant manager, 34 guys and you know whats crazy all of them came in on an ad that wasn't decieving (using real names of people in the office) it said Direct sales involved. Anyway i have to go "brainwash and munipulate" my guy's in atmosphere now. thats what i do as an owner right? Say that to my assistant manager. Sorry if my paragraph wasn't at university level either my ass was hurting me the whole time because of all the money in my wallet. come on you four "are you ready?". Lame rebuttals as always are welcome!!!!!!!!!!!!!

look again ima...

Before I cut and paste the list here are two things to think about Ima.

1) Why on earth would you promote up and down having $30,000 saved? If it was $500,000 and up maybe - but I know a bartender who had more saved than that. I hope that you have the money in your name and not in head office savings. It just might disapear.

2) I rebut a lot of these reports. But I didn't start them all. No way. And I don't make all the rebuttals. I couldn't. Or didn't you realize that?

Now people : here is a list of cult symptoms. They fit dsmax.

1. The group is focused on a living charismatic leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.
2. The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
3. The group is preoccupied with making money.
4. Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
5. Mind-numbing techniques (for example: meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, debilitating work routines) are used to suppress doubts about the group or its leader(s).
6. The group's leadership dictates – sometimes in great detail – how members should think, act, and feel.
7. The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s), and members (for example: the leader is considered the Messiah or an avatar; the group and/or the leader has a special mission to save humanity).
8. The group has a polarized, "we-they" mentality that causes conflict with the wider society.
9. The group's leader is not accountable to any authorities (as are, for example, clergy with mainstream denominations).
10. The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify means (for example: collecting money for bogus charities) that members would have considered unethical before joining.
11. The group's leadership induces guilt feelings in members in order to
control them.
12. Members' subservience to the group causes them to cut ties with
family, friends, and personal pre-group goals and interests.
13. Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group.
14. Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only w
ith other group members.

Some one else posted the above. But it fits!

Not having a good education is nothing to be proud of...

I have a hard time finding you credible based on your writing skills, "guy." Is that hard to believe, guy? I mean guy, what's up wit dat?

See the problem is that once something happens, like you decide you want to evolve beyond the MLM atmosphere, you will still have very crude mannerism and you will have a hard time being taken seriously.

In my first day out on my own I closed the biggest deal in the nation for that given week! I had three deals signed and ready to go. Then my coke-head managers both had nervous breackdowns and hustled back to New York... The whole office got closed over night, and the reason is because the business model does not require qualified people to do this. The wanted me to keep doing sales for them and I decided that I did not feel good about the one deal I had made, not to mention the fact it took almost a month of constant phonecalls to get paid.

The structure of these businesses is awful and the culture they create is one that is focussed on a narror career path. The managers in my office were encouraging me to drop out of college, that is just stupid. And they would say, "look at me, look at my wallet, I never went to school, this is corporate America..."

And you know what, these guys were so bad with the little money they actually had that it was almost funny, they also had swinging emotions that resembled a clinically insane person with severe dementia.

But they called me about 30 times a day, on weekends, always wanted to hang out with me... They were not genuinly "bad" people, I just feel sorry in retrospect that they had such a programmed way of thinking. You only have one life to live, business is not about being cut-throat or screwing customers. I honestly felt so damn guilty when I finalized the deal I made. I have not been able to go in the business since simply for the fact that I did not truly believe in what I was selling. I convinced some guy to buy something that I KNEW was worthless.

My manager actually tried to pencil in numbers to decieve the client... When the client was signing he saw it and freaked out. I called my manager and said, "why did you change X to Y?" He reponded, "OH F***, hahaha, damn he saw that... okay, change it back..."

From that moment on I realized something was really wrong with the business practices.

MLMs are structured for people with low educational levels... It is like how the army recruits people straight out of highschool- it is easier to mold a person's beliefs when they have less education.

if you are proud of you low education that is fine, the way I see it is that jobs can come and go, companies can go under and it is completely out of your control; but no one can ever take away your acheivements, educations, and degrees.

A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

Ima, Ima, Ima .......

Ima,

Im very happy with all your success, your way with words has made me laugh out loud. I can tell your a great owner with a lot of potential. You must be an advertising guy right? So you have a house, a car 30,000 on the bank and an Assistant manager. Juice by you big guy. Youve done well! Hows your inventory? Have you tried to take any money out of head office yet? Its your money right? How come you have to get a VP's permission to touch it? You can tell 2 things by your comments. 1. Youre 21 years old. 2. Youve only been doing this for a couple of years. I bet you still think Murray Reinhart is the founder of the company. Come on kid, smarten up. Learn the game, youve made money, you made it. Don't waste your time with these bozos who just neg out, get real. You don't own anything, boy. You own the corporation, yea, and maybe the furniture but thats it. Who does your books? Your taxes? Counts your inventory> DS max does. Why? Cause the got a punk kid excited on building a team and ringing a bell in the field. Now you motivate. Education yourself don't just rely on them to do it all for you. Take your money out of head office and invest it in IMA's name. Make more and take it out. How do you think Larry makes so much money? He sure as hell doesn't make money then let other people worry about right? Lets get real dude. In my book right now your name is IMA IDIOT lets see a smarter rebuttal and make think IMA SMART.

Not that bad ..Chances of success are about 1 in 1000, but that's just like any other business.

Personally DS-Max is a good fundamental system just with the wrong values. The way to make money in DS-Max is don't become a leader, just be a distributor and even if you do become a leader, tell the day of O to go home, that way you can easily make $100-200 a day without giving it to anyone. I do however think that its stupid to have someone in the office for 11 or 12 hours a day with 2 hours of standing around. I worked in clearance in one of the Ontario offices for a summer and I disliked the fact that it was 7 to 7.

If it was say 9 to 6, I would be more understanding, because with clearance you have a warehouse and the settle-ups. Say 9:30 to 5:30 in the field and one hour total for returns and settle-ups. It promotes a cult-like atmosphere, but I still worked there and all I did was ignore everyone except for one person. She's still in the business, but I told her don't get too caught up in it as there are always many other options.

To conclude: DS-Max isn't a scam, but its not a job either. Chances of success are about 1 in 1000, but that's just like any other business.

if you really want to stop them

i am an ex owner
was with the company for a number of years and came across this website by accident.
it has given me great entertainment to read all of your stories.
I too left because i was sick of promises i knew i couldn'd deliver.
the only way to stop these guys is to kill their recriuting.
you need people at every location telling all potential interviews what goes on before they go in.
no recruiting, means no growth, means no money , means no business.
kill their lifeblood don't just whinge on the internet.

This is such FUN

Hi Alisa.
I should really be doing something else, but I can't stop replying to you people. It's such fun.

Let me just reply to a few things.

No.1
I have nothing against any individual - other than those people from DS MAX I have mentioned in previous posts. The reason I attack Scot and Conner is for their attitude. You all say you have great attitudes and and are so positive yet, almost without exception, you denigrate people who leave a job, work at a fast food joint, or don't drive a nice car. Why? If you are successful, truly successful - GREAT -but at least be magnanimous.

The other thing that annoys me is this. I left DS MAX but I feel I am a success. When Scot and Conner - knowing nothing about me - say that I am a loser and "couldn't make it" and that's why I quit, it pisses me off. I left because I hated the person that business had turned me into. I hated how it made me bullshit to guys in my office that had been with me for years thinking they would make it into their own offices when I knew they would never make it.

Like any JOB, some people have got it and some haven't. You may be able to train people to a certain level, but you cannot give people those abstract qualities that make some good and some great.

The other thing I don't like is your blatant materialism. You value yourselves by how much money you have. That's sick. It is also symptomatic of the problems I believe are inherent in DS MAX operations. (I'll pat you on the back if you do well, but kick you in the guts if you are down or threatening to leave.)

I would have thought that it is MORE important to be POSITIVE to people when they're down than when they are doing well.

No.2
You ask about my accomplishments. Well if you read back a few posts you will see where I have explained my situation. (Of course, as Conner suggested I, like you all, could write anything and there is no way to check - You'll have to take my word for it, the same way I have to trust you.)

More importantly, I do not like to promote $$$ accomplishments. It doesn't mean much, really. Perhaps I am a little older than you... but one day - if you are lucky and you have children - you will know what I mean when I say that when your child comes up to you and says "I love you, daddy" there is no greater accomplishment in life. My little girl will have a great life, she'll be well provided for, and she will know what is truly important in life. It certainly isn't money, a fast car or being beautiful.

Finally, you say that I attack your business without knowing what it is about. I never attacked your business - whatever it is. You still haven't explained WHAT it is. With all these managers, administrators and outside offices, it sure sounds alot like DS MAX. Anyway, I really don't care. Tell us all about it, or not. It up to you. I'm sure if it's all above board we won't be reading about it on this site. Like I said above, I replied only after Conner and Scot replied to my remarks. And then it was only because of their bad, supercilious attitudes.

Must go now, take care Alisa... careful in a few years, when you start to get old and lose all that beauty.

I'll be waiting for the next one.

Cheers,

scot and alissa

you might as well be ds-max.

Why would you want to tie your company up in a report about bad mouthing ds-max?

Why would you go out on a limb to defend ds-max and then in turn draw so much criticism towards yourselves?

If you know ds-max - then you know about the turnover rate, the lies and the way people are mistreated. If you are any kind of a reputable direct marketing company - you probably hire alot of x-maxers that get abused by the system. Why not - they can go door to door and have great work ethic - right?

I don't think you considered the effects of what your actions would bring back to you.

Anyway - it is one thing for x-distributers like me to rant and rave. When you represent a company you are held to a higher standard of speach. By speaking like the way you do - you reflect on your company as a whole.

You need to reevalute the way you represent yourselves. At least you had the sense not to post the name of your company.

I think the entire culture that MLM frameworks support is the true underlying problem...

I did not work for DSmax but I did some work for an MLM type company called E-Commerce Processing (ECP). I was trained to be deceptive, my boss blatantly tried to rip someone off very badly and it almost cost me the whole deal, and after I made one deal both managers left town and had nervous breakdowns.

I was encouraged to drop out of college, move to NY, and become a manager... The whole thing is a masked pyramid scheme, that is why they answer the phone, "corporate office" or "advertising"... because they list these MLM companies under several brandings to avoid the legal penalties of an illegal pyramid scheme.

My freind own his own business and one day I was working for him... A DSmax employee (DC Advertising) came to his business to sell him a phone plan. It was 3 skanky (honestly, unprofessional hair, clothing, makeup) looking young girls. I told my boss not to do it but he fell for it, thinking he got a deal. On their way out the girls handed me a business card and offered me a job, keep in mind they just sold my "boss" a phone plan... I basically threw out their business card because their decorum seemed all too familiar to what I had dealt with for ECP... Several weeks later I asked my old boss/friend, "how'd that phone plan turn out?"

He told me it ended up costing 200% more than what he was told it would cost and he was pissed, he also cancelled it after 1 billing cycle. I want to know, what kind of business person goes into deal, rips off the owner of a business by presenting false data, and then tries to steal an employee from the person who just bought their product?

The people in the MLM industries typically do not have proper training. My manager at ECp knew we could not get the equipment that a prospect had agreed to get. When I questioned the fact the customer was being decieved I was told, "F*** HIM! Close the deal!"

even insurance companies like Primerica (Citibank division) have awful reputations due to their MLM model. They want everyone to be a "recruiter" and then you get portions of your new hires' commissions... Pyramid scam, that's really all it is if you think about it. Whenever you difectly pocket sales commisions from people under you that you are encouraged to recruit it is technically a pyramid structure.

I even found a Met Life branch that wanted to take me on as a Financial Services Representative. The thing is, this branch uses an MLM structure for unlicensenced reps. Honestly, I have my college degree and I did well in school. For one summer I worked with an MLM and I honestly think it was great sales experience, although the practices were unethical and it is not a good example of "corporate America," I still feel it was good experience for a college break.

I was the ONLY associate in my office that closed a deal before the whole office shut down. My one deal, on my FIRST DAY on my own was the BIGGEST deal in the NATION for that week. It took me FOUR WEEKS of constant calls to an out-of-state office to finally get paid. My manager helped me with the paperwork and I agreed to give him 25% of my commissions for helping me (he wanted 50%, I said NO). Keep in mind, he only helped with the paperwork, he didn't even close the deal or present anything. I was promissed to be let in on part of his deals that were being finalized.

The next week he was calling me from NY and telling me, "go to X store, they are expecting you..." I would go, to close his deals that he set up for me, and there was no appointment, no one was expecting me. Basically my managers were good people but they were really the definition of BOTTOMFEEDERS. From what I have seen in my town, with DC Advertising (Cydor/DSmax affiliate) ripping my old boss off and soliciting me, I realize the MLM businesses carry these types of employees by default due to the lack of training and lack of professional commitment.

Many people do not consider MLMs to be "legitimate" businesses. I think it is a good way to get some sales experince on a resume, but nothing more. There simply is not enough commitment on the corporation's part to warrant investing more than a summer vacation, if that.

Today comes ONCE, yesterday is GONE, tomorrow is coming ONCE and never again. With time continuously moving forward I look at any extended time in an MLM as non-productive. Pushing product and screwing people, convincing them to buy something that you KNOW is not a good value. Something that you KNOW should be cheaper. Something you KNOW you would never buy yourself.

Now that I am finished with school and interveiwing I have been contacted by Emprise Marketing though Monster.com... They are a Cydor division. THANK GOD I did the research. I honestly refuse to work for a questionable company. I am looking for a career with long-term growth and a check every week. I want to be in a learning environment, not one where schooling is discouraged. I do not want to get ahead of myself, but I believe I got the call today where I am pretty much hired into a very reputable company and I will be making a sufficient amount of money and I will be sent to a paid schooling/training program.

I am happy and excited for the future. I look back on my MLM experience and I think it was a good learning experience but a hard lesson. I made the most money in the office and then it collapsed due to the poor business structure and the ethics within management. When working for any MLM, keep in mind that it is not really something that the world veiws as "presigious." I would honestly rather be a garbage man than go door to door with coupons or selling gadgets for cash... Can't you guys see this is crap? Just do it short term, get some sales experience and get the hell out, but don't defend the structure. Looks like a duck, walks like a duck, must be a duck... When I did it it felt like a scam, everyone thinks it's a scam, must be a scam...

I would not want a Cydor, DSmax, or even MLM job on my resume after college, it just looks bad. A lot of crappy people (low-lifes) in this business due to the lack of screening... Keep that in mind when a future employer is looking at "DSmax" on your resume as your previous career... For a summer between semesters won't look bad, as a career it really isn't impressive at all.

Good luck if you like it.

Jay and Paul, I'll sleep better knowing he ended his run in the same ball of fire...

I used to work with Raf when he was the owner in Boston. Is Paul the same guy who opened that office with Raf in Quincy, then moved with him to NY? Just curious as that guy was always such an arrogant ass. I'll sleep better knowing he ended his run in the same ball of fire that the rest of us ended.

Mark, read this through..Todd what ever!!!

Sorry but I like talking to you guys too!!!! Mark first: how long were you with DSMAX? How far did you get? Was it in Australia? What did you sell there? And last what are you doing now? O’h and Mark, when I do get old, I will have enough money to get plastic surgery to stay looking younger for a lot longer!!! Without money I wouldn’t. I would be average, not ugly!!!!!

Todd, I have read a few things you have written. You are really pissed at this company Hah? Well your advise to me is noted and rejected!!! You are definitely one of the losers Scot was talking about. Not a loser at life. I am not trying to insult you, nor was Scot. But like a loser in a sports game. Excuses, excuses, excuses!!!! Or “they cheated”!!! Or maybe even I didn’t want to win!!!! What ever!! You joined that company for a reason.

You worked hard for a reason. You let them beat you. You could have succeeded and ran a good office your way. You could have learned from the things that you didn’t like about others in the business and capitalized off their mistakes. Instead you let them beat you. Now you are resentfull and angry. That is a loser and a poor sport. You chose to play!!! And just for your knowledge. Scot knows a few DSMAX VPs. He plays golf with them. They also stop in here once and a while to buy our advertisements. We are actually competitors of Granton. So your knowledge of that business and of our industry is very little. You are probably just a Trainee that couldn’t!!! So many people think that they know how our industry works. But you and most others haven’t got a clue!!!! Sounds like maybe even Mark has a better idea than you. Even though he’s Australian!!! Sorry Mark!!! Todd, go back to college. It’s your only hope to find acceptance. You can hide out there for years!!!!

Now for Tim and JJ. I’m going to teach you both something today. This is an article from the federal trade commission:
The definition of a Pyramid Scheme is:

"In generic form, a pyramid scheme is an organization in which the members obtain their monetary benefits primarily from the recruitment
of new members rather than selling goods and services to the public. The main benefit of membership is the right to recruit others and to
receive monetary compensation for doing so. Like any chain letter, a pyramid scheme is just a mechanism to transfer funds from one person to
another…"
(from

"Like multi-level marketing programs, pyramid schemes provide financial incentives to recruit new distributors. Pyramids compensate distributors almost exclusively for recruiting other distributors; product marketing activities are merely incidental. Pyramid schemes, unlike multi-level marketing plans, are generally prohibited because it is a mathematical certainty that the pyramids will collapse when no new distributors can be recruited. When the plan collapses, most people-- except perhaps those at the very top of the pyramid--lose their money. "

From the Federal Trade Commission
http://www.ftc.gov/reports/fraud97/law-enf.htm

Multi Level Marketing is different than a Pyramid scheme. They are not the same thing!!!!! What we do is different than both. We sell products or advertisements. You do not go out to recruit people. The business recruits. Your job once a manager, trainer, leader, or what ever you call it at DSMAX is to train new people and manage them. Just like at a car lot. They are selling a product for a company and earning a commission for it. The revenue from the sale is divided up and delegated to overhead, witch include paying the trainer for their work. MLMs are companies with structures that go more than two levels deep on a sales structure. To sell to people who join to sell to people to join to sell to people to join and so on. We are totally different!!!! JJ compared prim America with our industry. You are very very ignorant. Our industry is called promotional marketing. The companies in our industry make money from sales. Not from memberships to our companies. We represent other companies or products. Yes we recruit. Yes we expand. And yes we have an opportunity people to run offices. But we do not have a seven level compensation structure for recruitment. You are lost. Do you even know what marketing is? Do you know what network marketing is? How about print media? What about merchandise marketing? Do you know the difference between direct marketing and direct sales? What about promotional advertisement? Or direct advertising? What the difference in advertising and marketing? I bet you think they are all pretty much the same. They all must be multi level marketing!!!! Why, because you don’t understand anything about them so you group them together. YOU ARE IGNORANT, IGNORANT, AND IGNORANT.
You cannot and will not ever be successful at running any good business with out knowing the difference between all of the above. I will be taking over this office in Laguna in a few months. We are putting the furniture in John’s new office in La Jolla this month. I was a server at the Macaroni grill less than two years ago. Scot and John have taught me more about marketing than you will ever conceive. You guys will never understand the things it takes to be successful in business. You have only proven the people that are successful in our business right. Look at where we are. Look at were you are. Who really has the right attitude for success?

PS. Mark you seem like a good guy. I am only 24. You probably have great advise to give as a man. But, from what I’ve read so far, you don’t have enough experience in this industry to outline it.


PPS. Mark let me know what you think about these other guys (like Todd) and how much they know about this business.

DOOR TO DOOR SELLING DOORS. A TOTAL NIGHTMARE

i worked for westco, which is the "promotions department" for ADT.......hahaha.....it was a nightmare. Working door to door, waking up in the morning to do bullshit meetings, JUICE, give me a break, everyone in there was a complete loser, so sad, living in a two bedroom apt which was infested with roaches and trash. The worst part was listening to everyone pitch to me in the morning with their stank breathe, because the had no money for food or toothpaste. Those sad bastards. Now that i think about the interview, the owner(s) Eddie Conlon and Stephanie, made it sound so promising , it took a chance. I still have nightmares of that job. if that's what you call it. This is job has been described many times as a cult........and it is just that. mlm at it's finest. Be afraid be very afraid. Oh, i forgot, always maintain a good attitude and work ethic, and always believe in the law of averages. Hahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Mark, chill buddy.

Alissa wrote a sophisticated response to you and all you do is compare their company to DS-Max. Why don't you ask questions to Alissa or Scot then comment. So they have a company that is direct marketing, it doesn't mean they have the same system as DS-Max. I personally loved my experience at DS-Max and learned quite a lot from it, but I would never work for them. However I am not averse to working for another direct marketing company as I see potential. A lot of people here complain about working hard. Umm...hello?? That's how you get ahead in life, with a solid work ethic. If you have a steady job right now and you're taking it easy, watch out, you're going to be toast soon. That or you'll never get a promotion.

If you work hard at any job, you'll get promoted once there's an opening.

I'm going off-topic here so basically what I want to say is not all direct marketing companies are the same and stop judging a book by its cover.

And even though I don't know you, Scot, Conner and Alissa, kudos to you guys for what seems like a good company.

And on we go.... you went to great lengths to defend your company against our criticisms

Alissa... you went to great lengths to defend your company against our criticisms, even so far as to call us ignorant about five or six times. The trouble is, nobody is badmouthing your company, how could we when no one has even told us what you do? All we know about your company is that a few of you are friends with DS MAX guys, so excuse our "ignorance."

Let me speak for a minute on the topic of accomplishments. If financial wealth and business ownership is your sole definition of "accomplishment," then you're in the right business. For some of us, however, wealth is not the only marker of success. Let's say I graduate from law school and can't find a job. Well, I'll still have a doctorate, and even if all I become is the most educated taxi driver around, I would consider having passed the rigors of a legal education an accomplishment all its own. What's more, I will have funded my entire education via scholarships and money I have already earned by waiting tables. I also consider that an accomplishment. I also consider it an accomplishment that I completed my BA in the standard four years while raising a family and working. During my sophomore year, my daughter was diagnosed with a birth defect that required a liver transplant. I spent an entire semester driving back and forth from the children's hospital in Chicago to attend classes here and be with my daughter there. I did all my studying in the comfort of a pediatric intensive care ward, and still achieved a 4.0 for the semester. I consider that quite an accomplishment.

Let's talk about potentials. The school I will be attending has a 98% placement rate, at an average starting salary of $88,000/yr. MLMs, on the average, have an annual turnover rate that exceeds 100%. MLM employees, on the average, earn less than a minimum wage income (in fact, most of them actually LOSE money).

I admire the fact that you took the time to see what the FTC has to say about MLM and pyramid schemes. What you failed to gleen was that, if an MLM's extra-organizational reciepts account for less than 70 percent of the organization's income, they will be classified as a pyramid scheme. Informally, MLMs are considered "legal pyramid schemes." MLMs follow the same fundamental principles as pyramid schemes, but, as "pyramid scheme" is a legally defined term, the FTC cannot call them pyramid schemes unless they fit the legal definition of one.

Finally, keep in mind that my efforts against MLM are NOT a result of sour grapes, ignorance or jealousy. Far from it. I have a general concern for fair employment. I have found, through independent an unbiased research, that MLM is a dangerous and expoitative industry that is damaging to our society. These conclusions are based on statistical data, not personal experience. If you would like to see some of this research, visit this adress:

http://www.whatisgood.com/MLMvsNPSvsVegas-Where'sTheHarm_files/MLMvsNPSvsVegas-Where'sTheHarm-vert.htm

Dear Alisa... "You guys will never understand the things it takes to be successful in business.

You have only proven the people that are successful in our business right. Look at where we are. Look at were you are. Who really has the right attitude for success?"

I think it is funny how you can judge how sucessful I am by reading my thoughts on an MLM business structure. I look at where I am, and it is easy for me to see that I am OVERQUALIFIED to participate in an MLM structured position. I was not compairning your company to Primerica, I was simply making an example of what a Met Life office offered me and how it is similar to an MLM. I know you do not sell insurance and investment products.

I think you truly make your company look bad by the way you "fly off the handle" in your response. You really seem like you are drowning and you need a rope... I know what the industry is, I have worked for a similar company, I have been contacted by better companies with similar business models that I have turned down. I simply don't see the value in going door to door and cold calling on people. Today I was talking to someone who was in the direct sales industry and he had a gun pulled on him. I honestly don't find that surprising. People in this industry are usually rude, uneducated, and not properly trained to adress customer concearns adequatly.

I'm not "ignorant," I am simply making comparisons. MLMs and pyramids are so similar it is ridiculous. The fact STILL remains, MANY PEOPLE do not veiw MLMs and Direct marketing Companies as LEGITIMATE BUSINESSES. Too much bad press, plain and simple. I would rather not associate myself with the negative press.

In my opinion, a position in direct marketing is a JOB, not a CAREER. There is no professional commitment on the corporation's part.

Honestly good luck with your job, you'll need luck on your side if you plan to make it into a career.

Call me ignorant if you want to keep slinging mud around this board but it honestly makes you look less inteligent. No need to attack people for voicing their opinions. I have enough educational achievements combined with my own financial security that I do not feel envious of your lifestyle or your job. Again, your bosses want you to believe "the 9-5 guy is a sucker..." When in reality, the 9-5 guy could do direct marketing sales, but he CHOOSES not to... No screening, no education requirements, yet homeless people would rather collect cans than work for an MLM...

Remember, I am not calling you ignorant or mudslinging, I am only voicing my opinion on the industry that you choose to log on and defend. I don't see why every rep comes here to attack people and use the word "loser"... Can't you guys/girls just make a credible argument to defend the industry without tearing into people and looking desparate?

Alisa ..I came upon this web site and now I am addicted to reading the postings

Ok I am an ex-employee of a cydcor branch and I have no regrets. I came upon this web site and now I am addicted to reading the postings back and forth. The reason for this is that I was brainwashed like Alisa. Nobody could tell me that what I was doing sucked. One day I woke up and realized that if I know so much about sales and marketing why am I going door to door. Now Aliza will soon discover that even though she has learned "everything" there is to learn about the business world in 4 months, there are a few things she missed. One of my good friends is a Marketing Director for a fortune 500 company. He makes about 250,000 dollars a year and doesnt even have to brag about it or write to a website. He doesnt have to insult anyone, defend the credibility of his job (Alisa), or manipulate the people who work for him...(Scot). Now I said before, I have no regrets about the business. I made a lot of money and learned a little these DS Max wanna-be companies are giving Cydcor a bad name. I know people in the business. Scot and Aliza, i can get you guys a job with ds max if you want. You might be able to pick up a 800 series BMW and stop eating at Mcdonalds. Aliza, stay beautiful, and put you enthusiasm into something that is worth it. Ask Scot how much you are REALLY going to make when you open that office.

ok... Alisa you are right in one respect.

I do not know anything about your company. Therefore I would not claim too. (this is assuming you are NOT under the ds-max umbrella)

I can say a lot about ds-max. And with darn good reason and lots of evidence.

But I still don't know why on earth you would involve your company in a forum about exposing ds-max. Why would you do that to your selves? If they are your competitors - why are you altruisticly besmirching your own reputation?

Todd, get a life man

Well, I've been reading this site for a few days now because I have a few days off and what i've realized is that this site is full of sore losers. Well most of you are okay actually, it's just Todd who puts a bad name out for everyone. He constantly complains and he should get over his ds-max experience and move on.

Like this site is just as bad as some of you purport ds-max to be a brainwashing company. If you want everyone to believe in your comments and you over-react to anyone pro direct marketing, then you are just as bad.

You people are so wrong... thank god for Alissa and Scot on this site

I just started working with a company called TNI 2 months ago and I really enjoy it. I have good hours, 1 to 9, Monday to Fri and 10-6 on Saturday. That's only 48 hours of work. I have been recently promoted to a trainer and I'm making more money than I ever have.

I'm making close to a $170/avg per day and its fun. I get to meet nice people in the field and there are great people in my office.

What's even better is that I met my current girlfriend there and she's the sweetest person in the world. Were both trainers and we both make good money. Oh yeah, did I mention were both only 21? We are hoping to open an office soon together and it's totally up to us where we want to open our office.

I think all you guys are weak minded individuals who couldn't handle a few no's and don't know how to manage your own money. You keep on complaining about how you lost money, well it's your choice if you want to stay or not. No one's making you stay. If you people just gave it some more time, and tried to learn the system better and learn how to run a damn office, then maybe you could have been successful.

Oh, I'm not sure who said this, but whoever said "If I get a law degree and become a taxi driver, I consider it an accomplishment." like get real buddy. You're going to law school for a reason, to make money. Trust me, when you're out of law school and become a cab driver, you'll be complaining all day long. An accomplishment is only as good as where it takes you.

So even though DS-Max is our competition, their company is still better than all you losers(excluding Alissa, Scot and Conner and anyone else not complaining) who think that a degree is all you need in life.

Oh no, a company made me set goals...what do I do? Set them and aim for them.

TNI rules!

Reply to Alisa & Bernard (not that you deserve it Bernie)

Where to start?
I won't reply to everything that has been said since my last post - but...

Let me start with you Bernie.

You said: "... so basically what I want to say is not all direct marketing companies are the same and stop judging a book by its cover."

I do not presume to judge anything or anybody by anything other than the facts which are presented to me. I know NOTHING about the business Scot, Conner & Alisa are involved in. I did, however, make comments about THEM because of their comments on this website. (eg People that leave DS MAX do so because they are losers.)

Which brings me to my next point - YOU left DS MAX, and you defend the same people that would categorise you as a loser. Maybe you are confused?

You also say "I personally loved my experience at DS-Max and learned quite a lot from it, but I would never work for them. However I am not averse to working for another direct marketing company as I see potential."
I have tried to understand this comment but I have failed - I must be a loser! You LOVED your experience, but would never work there. Why?

Finally Bern, another of your comment suggests naivete`of the highest order. You say: "If you work hard at any job, you'll get promoted once there's an opening."

I am afraid I have to disagree. Hard work will get you only so far, in any business. DS MAX, direct sales, sports, business, anything. You need skills to get to the top, and these kills are as many and varied as there are professions. Hard Work may get you promoted if you are a ditch digger, but the promotion will be only to that of Senior Ditch Digger. (I hope I am not offending any ditch diggers out there.)

Write back when you can contruct a better argument.


Alisa, nice to talk to you again. Sorry I missed a day.

1. You ask about my current situation. I will not bore everyone here with my details again. If you are truly interested - and not just on a fishing expedition! - you can learn all about me from a post I wrote on this thread back in April.

2. You say that I cannot give any 'advise'(sic) [sorry] and that I "dont have enough experience in this industry to outline it." If you are talking about DS MAX/Direct Sales I think you are wrong. I was in DS MAX for four years, more than three of those as an owner. (See previous post.) If you are talking about your own industry, perhaps you are right... I don't know what it is that you do, and as such I have not passed comment on it. I comment only on what you, Scot & Conner say in your posts.

3. As far as what I think of the other people posting on this website; some viewpoints I agree with, others I don't. You single out Todd for some rough treatment and I think that is unfair. Most of his arguments seem quite intelligently presented. I also have alot of respect for someone who has committed himself to study and family in the manner he has. Provided it is true of course - and as I have said previously, I can only take each person on their honour in their presentation of facts about themselves.

Finally, I think there will never be a time when each side of this argument will agree. If you are
happy in your business and run it ethically and with responsibility and integrity, there is nothing for you to fear from these posts.

I will, however, continue to attack those that defend DS MAX when it is clear that many, many people (including myself) have been not only mislead and deceived, but, to their detriment, have had their whole persona changed.

PS All the cracks about Australians.

I always thought it was you guys who had an accent. I thought we all talked normally!!!

Cheers,

LISTEN AND LEARN BOYS....

Todd,

DSMAX is not a competitor of our company. I said Granton is. Yes Granton is tied to DSMAX. But we sell certificates to other companies like DSMAX and independent different companies. We also have our own direct sales teams. My talking about my company is not to try and injure it. It is to let some of you know that read this site. That not all promotional Marketing companies are affiliates with DSMAX. Nor are they all structured or ran like them. And especially to let you know that promotional marketing and direct sales is very different then multi level marketing. There are people out there like JJ that believes direct sales is an illegitimate business and group it with MLMs.

Now JJ, you think it’s funny how I can judge your success from reading your thoughts. Yet you judge direct sales, direct marketing, and MLMs through your experience with a few companies!!! Read carefully kid O.

DIRECT SALES IS A METHOD OF SALES. IT IS NOT A STRUCTURE. NOR IS IT THE BUSINESS. THE BUSINESS WOULD BE OF THAT PRODUCT OR SERVICE. . DIRECT IS JUST BRINGING THE PRODUCT TO THE CONSUMER.
THE GOAL IS TO SELL THAT PRODUCT OR SERVICE

DIRECT MARKETING IS THE METHOD FOR MARKETING A PRODUCT OR A SERVICE TO A TARGET MARKET THROUGH MAILERS, PROMOTIONAL PENS, E-MAILS, WORD OF MOUTH ADVERTISING, EX…. EACH ARE METHODS. IT IS NOT A SALES OR RECRUITEMENT STRUCTURE. THE GOAL IS TO ADVERTISE.

MULTI LEVEL MARKETING IS A RECRUTING/SALES STRUCTURE BASED ON INVESTMENTS AND MEMBERSHIPSALTHOUGH MONEY CAN BE MADE THROUGH A SALE RECRUITING IS THE PRIMARY GOAL.

Tim,
]
I am not attacking you. I’m letting you know that you are attacking more than just DSMX with your comments. You’re attacking the way at which many companies in many different industries sell or market their product.

Tim I didn’t say you were ignorant to my company. I said to our industry. Because you associate us as an MLM. Good luck to you on your journey to expose MLMs.. You’re an idiot…

BaiIey!

"I only have a high school degree and was a complete drug addict before I went into TNI and now I'm basically all cleaned up. I only do the occassiaonal pot here and there, but who doesn't? "

Exactly my point you idiot! Even if you do drugs or anything, which I will not hold against you... but give me a ****ing break! you are REPRESENTING A COMPANY! Most of these bottomfeeders like you are complete drug addicts. I have my skelitons in the closet but I keep them in the closet. This is a prime example of the type of trash this industry is built off of. Not to sound like a bad person, but you really set your-self up. A PRIME EXAMPLE OF THE LACK OF SCREENING. JUST ANOTHER JUNKIE BOTTOMFEEDER DOOR TO DOOR SALESMAN.

Have fun!

About you and your girlfriend opening an office...

"I think all you guys are weak minded individuals who couldn't handle a few no's and don't know how to manage your own money."

First of all, why do you people assume everyone who is against DSmax is broke? I have no hard feelings toward DSmax or anything, I have plently of money, I mainly come here because I find the discussion intriguing...

Anyways, you refer to other people as being "weak minded" yet you could not keep your paws off a collegue in the office... Seriously, dating in the office is extremely unprofessional and it is highly discouraged. I could see if you got your girlferiend a job and were dating beforehand, maybe in a different department for the same company, but to come to a job and just start dating a co-worker is often times the seed that plants a sexual harrassment case. I am surprised that you think it is a good thing to be 21 and dating a co-worker and considering to open an office together. That sounds like the worste idea in the world.

Maybe it is true love but I do not think you should be calling people "weak minded."

And Alisa, I honestly did not gain any new knowledge from YOUR ALL CAPS POST TO ME. YELLING ON THE BOARD MAKES YOU SEEM CHILDISH. I CAN READ JUST FINE if you type in lower case text. Again, I can tell you are irritated by my comments and you feel it is necassary to defend your job. I am sure glad I do not need to defend my job or the credibility of what I do.

I really have nothing left to say except that I am truly amazed at the way some people think here.

Reply to Mark (not that you deserve it)

I guess you don't know how to interpret things very well. By no means am I defending DS-Max, but I just want to defend some other innocent independant direct marketing companies who are now falling under the umbrella(so to speak) of DS-Max.

Did you ever go camping? Or get lost? Well, you love the experience, but its a place you would never go again. Or in college, when you live in residence, you love the experience and helped you learn a lot and you don't regret it, but its something you would never do again?

Well DS-Max taught me people skills, how to train people, manage money and conduct interviews. What I didn't like was the outright lying to potential new distributors and that's why I would never go there again. I'm not adverse to doing direct sales for another company as long as they have higher ethical standards than DS-Max.

You guys are somewhat right...

but you are mostly wrong. I have heard some stuff about DS-Max from my manager about how bad they treat you. I just can't believe my boyfriend on his day off came accross this unbareable sight and saw all you bitches and jackasses complaining. You guys really are cows.

You shouldn't judge an entire industry by one company, that's just prejudise. My best friend told me about the company and I actually surpassed her but when Jason and I get our own office open, we'll take her with us. I only have a high school degree and was a complete drug addict before I went into TNI and now I'm basically all cleaned up. I only do the occassiaonal pot here and there, but who doesn't?

I'll admit not everyone is right for the business, some are weak, some are arrogant, but its those people who now the fine line that will make it. But brainwashed? Come on. Give me a freakin break. If you think you were brainwashed, then that just proves you are weak because you are suceptible to anything.

I'll see all you arrogant/weak minded cows working for Mcdonalds or in a crappy warehouse job making $20,000/yr while my boyfriend and I are going to be making close to $100,000 each in a few years. Oh yeah, did I mention the office pays for our room too? I LOVE TNI!!!

Freaking Me Out!

I have now been with a local "promotional/advertising" company directly under Cydcor for almost a month. However I have the title of the "Administrator" I have never been out in the field, or had to sell anything.

However, I am the one responsible for ad's. Getting the people in for their interview's, scheduling day of o's, etc. Never until this moment have I felt so disgusting. I don't really know what to think. I am the person who sees all these people leave, not call back, but I didnt know why. The cult similiarities are mind boggling, however the opportunities seem to be the same. I have never sat in on an interview, and do not know what is said. It seems like everything is kept so "secretive" from me. The questions I ask when trying to inquire about an employee that is no longer there, is always accused of being "NEGATIVE". I just want to know if any other admin. have had these questions, and want some suggestions, comments. I do have a college degree, and right now I am making a good amount of money. I get paid hourly though. I do have inside information, and there are things I still do not understand.

I just know that I do not want to put my heart and hard work into a company that seems to have hurt and misled so many people. I just feel very disheartened after reading all the disappointed things. YUCK!?! I hope all of these things arent true. Well, actually it's too late for that bc i know they are. I've seen them all for myself. My eyes are just opened now.

Roxy, Familiarize your self with many of these reports

Some one named Mark made quite a response to an administrator in the the "streamline marketing Mi associates" series if you look under "ds max" with the search engine on this sight. Be sure and include the space.

Good luck getting out. Familiarize your self with many of these reports and the dsmaxthe aftermath group. At least you did not wind up in the field.

JJ..

My girlfriend won't bother responding to your childish remarks, she's above that but I feel that I have to defend her and our company practices. The company does have screening practices, we do not take anyone on who has broken the law within the past year. All that is required is that you are 18+ and must not have any record of sexual harrassment or theft or fraud.

TNI is a competitor to DS-Max and we believe our company will do much better because of our screening process. And at least Bailey is willing to be open about everything, which goes to show you that we don't "close our back doors" as some of you say.

Also, Bailey and I are in love, so please don't question it.

Roxy: GET OUTTA THERE!

Roxy,



You should be commended for your honesty and sincerity. My advice to you is to get your hat and coat and get out of there.

Good Luck with everything you do.

Cheers

What's with all the name-calling? Do you guys need a time out?

After reading through this discussion I'm noticing a trend. Myself, Jj, Todd et. al. have made great attempts at avoiding condescension and ridicule. In return for our attempts at civilized discussion we are labelled ignorant, idiots, losers, etc.

Moreover, in the process of spouting typical MLM drivel about how we'll be serving you burgers in your BMW, you seem to have avoided refuting any of the valid arguments posed to you. If you really want to effectively defend your company, name calling and stereotyping will get you nowhere.

And you say the people who leave your company have bad attitudes? All you have displayed is an extremely crass sense of materialism, an inability to conduct yourselves in a professional manner while you are representing your company, and an inability to conduct a reasoned discussion that is based on facts and research without resorting to childish name calling. You've all done a great job of reafirming our stereotypes about MLM shills.

If you can come up with any sort of reasoned responses for my concerns I would welcome the opportunity to engage in an intelligent conversation, otherwise I'm throwing in the towel on this one. I visit this site for reasoned discussion and, fortunately, I can recognize when I'm wasting my time on a fruitless venture. So continue to sling mud, attack characters, and avoid the real issues. I can take the criticism; my self esteem is sky high and I know that what I'm doing is of value, regardless of the outcome.

They were late with my paychecks, and just very inconsistent and unreliabl

Thank you for your response Mark. I grabbed my hat and coat, and am on my way out! haha! This is insane. I had been with the company for over a month and only received one paycheck. They were late with my paychecks, and just very inconsistent and unreliable. My bills were late, and many other things b/c of our hub accountant who was the biggest witch on the face of the planet. Anyway, I'm so happy to be through, and i finally don't feel like I'm deceiving people anymore. Once again thanks for the support!

to Alisa/Cydcor affiliates

Preface: I was employed by a Cydcor affiliate in Cleveland, Ohio for more than a month. In that time, I broke the office record for highest dollar amount on a single Quill ticket, and was DETERMINED to succeed despite watching others around me curiously stop showing up. So, as you can see, I'm not one of those guys who came in, sucked from the start, and moped around later because he wasn't successful.

Now, for the "rant." I really didn't read the later posts, I knew that it would be more of the same company line I was fed when I was questioning my leader why I wasn't getting paid (promised pay in 2 weeks, got pay in 4), why my pay was so low, and when this 30K a year to start came into play. I'm really not sure how your affiliate office operates, and quite honestly, I really don't care. What I do know, however, is half-truths, deception, and lingustic inventiveness to conceal, or at least partially conceal to the prospect the vastness of work he/she is getting themselves into. I have no problem working 50-60 hour weeks. What I do, however, have a problem with, is in the event that I don't have the best of days, my efforts, my WORK in doing said efforts, and the framework that I toiled that day to create will go completely unconpensated. Not so much as a couple of dollars for gas and food. There are MANY days that I had to budget for 10-15 dollars a day, and most of that was refilling my gas tank (Honda Civic, burned through a tank A DAY), eating all but the cheapest of meals, and trying to maintain a positive attitude through all of it. Then, after I landed the big ticket, to hear that they are docking 50 dollars of it because my trainer never told me that orders ofer US$1000 have to have a credit check. Not to even mention the verbal beratement I was handed when I told one of the newly hired recruits the ACTUAL, UNCENSORED TRUTH. I believe, as his coworker, I owed him that much, I knew the "leaders" were not going to offer him that courtesy.

So you see, my dear, I'm really not bitter at your office, I'm bitter at the system as a whole, and how the main cog in that system relies SOLELY on the exploitation of the people coming in and out of that office. I just wish to correct one little thing before I end.

Quoth Alisa: "MULTI LEVEL MARKETING IS A RECRUTING/SALES STRUCTURE BASED ON INVESTMENTS AND MEMBERSHIPS. ALTHOUGH MONEY CAN BE MADE THROUGH A SALE RECRUITING IS THE PRIMARY GOAL."

Someone's thinking from the company line. Let me explain.

MLM is, in fact, a recruiting sales structure. This is necessary to ensure the MLM's internal levels, and ergo, it's very survival. However, I do believe it's a violation of the Straw Man logical fallacy to merely say that all MLM's offer are investments and memberships. How is Amway/Quixtar (the gold standard of MLM) an investment, or a membership? Also, it is not the standard practice of Amway/Quixtar to sell product through third party companies? How is this dissimilar from your revenue stream?

As far as the recruiting goes, let me ask you this. Assuming industry standard attrition rates (which, as we all know, in this industry is a pipe dream), you have let's say 90% of the members of your office attain the level of "office manager", and they go and open up their own offices. Do you see the personnel vacuum yet? Let me try it with more realistic circumstances. Office manager needs 5(hypothetical) subordinate offices to rise in rank to Regional Whatever. He/She, in an effort to get to said plane of existence, is forced to staff (synonym for RECRUIT) higher in his subordinate offices or promote someone already in place. Kicker here is, according to Cydcor doctrine, a leader needs N teams under him to go to ASM, an ASM needs P teams under her to go to Office manager, and so on and so forth. So, the same end is reached, more RECRUITING must be done to elevate said people, even more recruiting than is necesary to replace the battalions of disenfranchised employees who are seeing the proverbial light.

I understand fully that you are not affiliated with Cydcor, I understand you aren't affiliated with DS-Max, but if you are going to base your business so closely on their practices, you incur the same inherent problems as they do.

Don't hate me cause I'm beautiful, hate me cause I'm right.

Excuse me JJ???

You're such a loser! Is that all you can think of? I used to be a drug addict, but I'll only the occasional pot now and then. You can't tell me you don't have one single friend that hasn't done pot?

If it weren't for this business, I would still be a drug addict and would be out on the streets begging for money. I am so glad that I found this opportunity and if it weren't for TNI, I have a feeling I wouldn't be feeling as good as I am now. Besides, I'd rather be doing this and getting an office open than working for a loser who has to take orders.

This company has changed my life and for the better. Also I am so glad that I have met Jason, he is trying to help me out by sorting out this mini-addiction I have to pot. I think if DS-Max were run properly, it could be a lot better and not have as many complaints.

ALL TRUE...but I have made my peace with it

So everything on this site is true. I was so intrigued while reading this. It is 3am and I feel compelled to read every single entry and NOW I am even responding.

So..

I worked at the Arsene Lee Advertising group in San Francisco. It was my first "real" job out of college. I was very excited to start working there. I am SUCH a people person and everyone seemed great, even "the short 27 year-old guy" who interviewed me (I thought that was a funny description of him that I read in on of the entries).

Anyway, during my time there I realized a few things. I learned A LOT about myself, about what I am capable of, about how I need to protect myself and my self worth. I also learned a great deal of professional skills, about talking to people, about learning how to read people, about learing how to build quicj relationships, and about learning how to realate to a variety of people.

While I learned these things, I also made great friends that I still talk with to this day. So I guess after all is said and done. YES I do feel as though I was mislead and I DO feel like I was taken advantage of, but I try to look at the experience as a glass that is half full, and see the good things that I took out of that experience. GEEZE, I even moved ALL THE WAY TO DALLAS TEXAS to help open an office (boy was that an experience!)

It seems as though people think that opening an office of their own in completely impossible. However, I personally know 6 people from my office that opened their own deal.And after a couple years of the business, they took their profits and left. I hear one took the profits and used that to start a business of her own that she REALLY wanted to run. And I hear that "short 27 year old" even closed down the office that I was once a part of! Crazy!

I guess the point I am trying to make is that this job is NOT for just anyone, and NOT everyone is going to open an office, but there is a very high possiblilty that if you work hard enough you WILL get an office. Now the amount of success that you have while you have your own office is again, up to you.

I am not one to badmouth people for their career choices, so I am not going to go into all the hairy details that surrounded my xit of the company, but I will say this. THIS IS NOT A BUSINESS FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE "NICE" AND WEAK MINDED!! YOU NEED NOT APPLY! But I guess if you have read all of these, you know what you are up against, but you ALSO know what could possibly be in store for you.

--Neena
Grateful for the experience. GLAD to be gone!

PS the emeryville office, is that the one with the manager that wears bowties?? he gave me the creeps!

PPS pardon the spelling errors and type-os; there should be spell check on this thing.

Bailey... Look at all the name calling you use towards us

First you enter the discussion like this:
"I just can't believe my boyfriend on his day off came accross this unbareable sight and saw all you bitches and jackasses complaining. You guys really are cows."

Look at all the name calling you use towards us. You blatantly throw out any chance of an intelligent discussion. I made a response several days ago but it was not posted for some reason. Now you start again, by calling me a "loser".

You straight out admit you would be on the street BEGGING for money! Basically, what is the difference between that and your job now? (okay, that was a cheap shot)

but please, your office boy toy called me childish, yet you entered the discussion by calling us all bitches and cows... ahem, who is childish?

I honestly don't think it is good corporate practice to have former drug addicts who are accustomed to begging on the streets in sales.

I know you are proud of being "cleaned up", but don't give TNI the credit for that.

And also, about opening an office while in a relationship... Don't you think that your relations with your co-manager will blur the lines of management decisions? In fact, it is for this reason that office relationships are taboo, and not to mention the harrassment liability. Relationships may seem perfect at first, but after 3 years you will see that it takes some sacrifice and work to keep you and your partner happy. There really is no way I can see a sucessful office being run by people who are "in love."

I am surprised that your response to me got posted, while my reply earlier was not. I hope ripoffreports.com posts this.

The problem with these companies is the lack of values in the people that represent them. I have a street begger calling me a loser, now that's funny.

JUICE! I gave the assistant manager a really limp handshake

I was told by a friend about cydcor, so I decided it would be fun to try a position there myself.

Here's what happened.

I made it to the third interview, I got the position with one of the assitant managers.

When I was walking out of the office, I gave the assistant manager a really limp handshake, and he just looked at me.

The next day he just looked at me funny the whole entire day. He treated me like I was a worthless idiot.

So during my second full day I went into breakfast and called some of the other employees the wrong name. The manager got mad at me, and then she was ready to get rid of me.

The third day, I interrupted a leadership meeting. The manager looked at me and grinned.

The managers were pissed at me by this point.

And they still kept me, because my leader/assistant manager thought I was doing a good job.

So after the managers found out that I got kept, they were pissed, and they wouldn't give me high fives at the end of the day.

The next day I left, and my leader called me, and got all mad because I didn't show up.

JUICE :)

To Mark.........And Tim please go get laid!!!!!

Mark, good to hear from you again! Now there is so much more to learn about this industry. DSMAX really tries to keep you guys sheltered from other companies and how it all works. Owners from DSMAX really don’t make that much money. Even with low overhead and a high sell they have to produce extremely high volume because of their royalty they owe. Take your execucards for example; you sell them at $25 on average. You pay granton $4 for them, you pay a rep $10. You don’t have enough money left to even pay an override to the trainer. 50 sales a day would be $500 net. That’s $8000 a month. You pay overhead at least at 5 to 6k a month. Your making a whopping 2k per month! That is doing 50 sales a day!!! If you do more you could make more of course. But you would need a lot of people always doing high volume. So many owners from DSMAX eventually fail. And when they do fail. They carry all of the liability. Not DSMAX. Or what about Wholesale? $5 items. You pay a rep $1 a sale. Buy the product at $1 to $2. You are left with $2 to $3. You have to maintain at least 150 to 200 sales a day to just make your office overhead of 6k. What about you making any money? What about your personal bills? Ya, but you are in business for yourself!!!!!

I’m sure you already know this Mark. What I’m saying is that there are more concepts out there that work out better for owners and Branch Managers.

For example we sell certificates that are much like execucards. Only they are our own accounts. Scot closes the deals himself and produces the card. Our cards sell at $60. Like our 24 hour fitness membership. 3 months free to any local gym with lots of additional free stuff, like supplements, a towel, and an introduction to fitness class. A membership normally cost $800 a year with a contract, or $65 a month with out. Our cards are$60 for three months, a great deal for the customer. Plus we pay our reps $20 a sale plus production bonuses and contest paid weekly. We also give the trainer $2 for every sale conducted on their team. Conner and I are the Assistant branch manager’s for our offices. We make a $3 overide on the entire office. As a Branch Manager I will receive $10 on every sale conducted in the office. Only I do not pay the overhead, Scot does. Last week we closed the week at 303 sales. John our BM here in Laguna made $3030.00. He does not pay overhead, he keeps all that money. Plus he makes profit sharing.
Now Scot comes out of each sale with about $25 after paying the reps and the BM. So he pulled in about 7 K last week on just this Branch in Laguna. He runs the LA location also. So he makes BM and Owner pay there, on top of this Branch. They did 480 last week. So we estimate here that Scot made $16800.00 out of his own Branch and $7575.00 out of this Branch last week alone. $24375.00 in a week. The guy pulls in nearly 100K a month as the owner.
John pulls in about 230k a year as a BM. But we only have to do 50 to 60 #s a day to make that money.

DSMAX owners must maintain at least 100 to 200 a day to make still less then that. That’s why so many DSMAX owners fail.

Everyone in our company knows how much Scot makes. Per Branch he makes 5 times more than a BM. To me that is fair. He built and run s the entire company. He pays the overhead. And if something were to happen, he would be liable.
So why would anyone make DSMAX owner pay and carry all of the liability plus overhead. When you could make more money as a Branch Manager, have no liability, and pay no overhead.
Well Mark, that is our concept that we are brain washed on!!!!! And sorry I didn’t read your first comments in April about how far you had gone in that company. But some of the people on this site are legitimate, while others don’t know enough about the business to even hold a good quality debate!!!! Tell me more about what you sold. And how your guy’s compensation was structured down under!!!!

PS. That JJ guy said it all when he announced that he was a drug addict!!! No more talking to him!!!!

IMA, IMA, IMA... I truly feel sorry for you.

Ima, I use to be like you. I was so brainwashed by your 'opportunity' that I defended it like it was some holy grail. Let me tell you, it isn't anything special.

Relax, take a breath, control your emotions and think about what you have achieved: ($30k, a house, a car, an outside deal.) It's not that great really, is it? I know plenty of guys in their early twenties in similar situations. There is opportunity everywhere; please don't put down those people who have become successful doing jobs other than DS MAX.

What most of the posters here (who have been caught up in DS MAX) respond to, is not so much about the business; it is the way the business is conducted. Whatever has happened in the office(s) you have been in, gives you no reason to belittle others who have had bad experiences.

At DS MAX I was lied to, cheated out of money, mislead and had my business affected by the decisions of others. I am ashamed to admit that I have done the same. (Shit breeds shit)

Perhaps, Ima, in a few years, when you have spent as long as I did with DS MAX (It was called WWI when I started) you will come to realise that the dream 'aint gonna happen.

I saw my promoting owner at the airport a few months ago. He has been in the business for over ten years now. He had a few 'kids' that he was taking to an owners meeting interstate. My overriding emotion was that he must be so bored. Doing the same thing over and over; gaining a crew, losing a crew, lying to him, lying to her. No one retires, no one ever gets their dream. They just end up doing a job. And that is exactly what DS MAX is, a shitty job for most, and an average opportunity for those that are successful.

Let us all know how you are doing in five or ten years. You'll probably still be dragging a bag around the world full of cheap shit (or cajoling others into doing it) when I've retired.

Good Luck, you'll need it.

I have an interview and I am now very skeptical about attending

I saw a response from a man named Jon about a job with SC Marketing Group, and I would like to know how it turned out? I have an interview and I am now very skeptical about attending. i called to set up an interview and got one for the very next day, the receptionist would not lend me any information about the company, i went the BBB's website, and found that the company is called HL Associates, 164 Sears Avenue
Louisville, KY 40207. I would like any information about the company. I asked for a website and they told me to go to Sydcor.com (not Cydcor) is this the same company? any information would be greatly appreciated! Thanks

Okay JJ, I apologize for some of my rude manners, but when people are targeting my past problems as a basis for their argument, it is really hurtful.

Like some people have mentioned direct sales is a giant industry and some companies will have to be run similar to the cult-like ways of DS-Max, while some can be run in the 9 to 5 manner.

Both can be very successful or both methods can be very unsuccessful.

When we open up our office, all we want is to start off with a few clients, do the normal 12 to 8, 1 to 9 shifts in the field and as we expand become a full-fledged advertising companies. Acquiring companies via market research,(telemarketing) qualified leads, and sales to the corporate world.

ALISA- Bailey is the drug addict... PLEASE go back to school and learn to read...

"That JJ guy said it all when he announced that he was a drug addict!!! No more talking to him!!!!"

What? huh? Did you EVEN READ anything I wrote?

Bailey is the ex-drug addict and TNI employee.

You really demolish your credibility when you close you post with something that blatantly shows you did not read the responses. Unless your reading comprehension is really that poor...

Either way, you just made yourself seem pretty dumb right there.

Alisa, I believe you are missing the point.

I think your position is blinding you to the crux of our arguments, which is really frustrating because you fail to address any of the points i set forward in my previous post.

However, because I am a fair man, I will address yours, in hope of seeing some reciprocation.

Let me begin my saying I really don't give a rat's ass what your BM/Owner/Grand High Poobah make in a year. It is inconsequential to my existence, and doesn't affect me in the least. If I were you, I would stop flaunting it. However, now that we know that your head cheiftain makes a mil+ a year, and your BM makes 6 figures, how about all the little indians? I'm curious to know what you are paying all the little people that put all that money in the coffers of your managers. Obviously, you have no qualms about publishing the incomes of your company heads, I don't expect this to be too much trouble.

Do this, and I'm sure (if it's a fair amount), you will dissuage a few of the anti-Cydcoresque company haters like myself, at least for hating your company.

Baily, Big of you to admit and apologize...

Baily,

I rarely have the time anymore to keep up with everything. I am one of the managers of DS/Max The Aftermath (both on MSN and forming it's own website).

Experience what you need to experience. Continue to "self-improve" in any way you can. Take care of yourself with eyes wide open... and we'll be here for you when you need us.

This is the real crux of the MLM and door to door relationship...

Bailey, you said:

"When we open up our office, all we want is to start off with a few clients, do the normal 12 to 8, 1 to 9 shifts in the field and as we expand become a full-fledged advertising companies. Acquiring companies via market research,(telemarketing) qualified leads, and sales to the corporate world."

This is the problem. Direct sales is fine for the individual. Most products are sold at a price that is prorated by volume. All you need is enough start-up capital to be able to purchase enough products at a profitable price. Then you sell them however you want i.e. door to door. Anybody can do this, the latest and most popular outlet is EBAY.

DS-Max basically teaches others how to do this, while taking a sizeable chunk off the top. Again, this is something anybody can do independantly. But DS-Max pretty much offers the products, without your investment, for you to sell. In theory, it sounds good. But the thing to remember is that DS-Max controls your slice of the pie. Not to mention the fact that they don't have to do any work. (I'm not gonna go into discussing the sick practices that are used to keep people "in line"). DS-Max is alot like a loanshark; you don't pay much up-front, but the interest will drag you under.

So, basically, to address Bailey:
Direct sales doesn't need "ad agencies" or anything else. There should never be a "middle man" of any sort. Why would you pay someone to give you an opportunity that you could so easily obtain yourself?

Anybody can make money in direct sales if they want to. DS-Max is a system that is set up to pay people for doing basically nothing more than finding others to sell shit that profits those at the top. Its complete bullshit.

Bailley, if you want to do direct sales, that is fine. Just don't pretend that it is something that you can honestly hire people to do for you. Why wouldn't they just do it for themselves?

Your missing the point..

#1. I do not work for DS-Max and neither am I supplied by them. I work for TNI, a competitor to DS-Max.

#2. I see this no different than paying royalties for a franchise. My parents and Jason's parent's have also owned a franchise.

Both franchises were A Buck or Two and Pizza Pizza.

They both make you follow strict guidelines as to what product you can sell/how you can make it, so as to not give themselves a bad name. With the brand name recognition however, there is always a price, which is anywhere from 5-20 % royalties.

And why would I have to pay interest? Do we really need more than $20,000?

Rent's only $1000/mo. If all products are consigned, then there's no need to have that much cash on hand, but we both have plenty.

Jason was smart enough to tell me to start saving money, and stop spending it, so we've accumulated some money over the past few months.

A thought --- the "JUICE" wake up ritual bugged the hell out of me

I was an independent contractor with DS-Max for about 2 months in 2000. I worked out of the Enterprise Advertising office in San Diego, CA.

During those two months, although the "JUICE" wake up ritual bugged the hell out of me, I didn't see any glaring offenses like those described here.

I left, not because I "saw the light". Not because I got ripped off. I left because I knew that I couldn't hack it. But what I took with me was a better understanding of the sales process.

What is interesting about this forum is that if someone posts any type of defense for DS-Max as an organization, the DS-Max haters will immediately attack their spelling or grammar. What I have noticed in the real world is that the "C" students end up supervising the "A" students.

I look at where I currently work. I am the only person there who didn't graduate college with a 3.0 or higher (that's because I decided to work). Our company president? Guy has admitted that he can't write a company memo. Doesn't matter...he's a multimillionaire. Case and point....spelling and grammar isn't an indicator of financial intelligence or success.

I'm content with my $35k a year job. I have more time for family and I know what my check will be.

Cydcor in Atlanta

I graduated from college in May and started looking for my first job. I read an ad for a marketing firm that prided itself on its "unique" approach, so naturally I was interested. I applied for a job with JNL & Associates, went to my first interview which lasted maybe 20 minutes. I asked what exactly made JNL's approach different and unique. The owner gave me vague answers. I was disheartened, because every other job interview I've had lasted for 45 minutes to an hour. I just knew I wasn't getting called back.

To my surprise I get the call rewarding me for getting a 2nd interview and I show up only to see the same 4 candidates in the lobby that were there when I was there previously. what the heck? They said only 1 or 2 out of a few hundred would get called back...that's when I first thought something was up. I get called into the owner's office and meet him as well as "the person I need to impress today". We head out.

I follow her about 20 miles up the interstate to a shopping center. We meet at an AT&T wireless store and head in. I watch her approach customers and try to sell them services. I'm blown away. What the HELL is this about? I head back to meet with the owner and he offers me a job, and I take it reluctantly. I mean, it's my first job out of college why not?

The next 3 weeks are up and down. I go from almost walking out of the store within the first 2 hours of my first day to being excited for a new campaign that may arrive soon. Every day I talk myself out of quitting with dreams on 6-figures. I came in with 6 other people, and now it's only me and another person left. I kinda feel good about lasting so long, but I'm also jealous that the other guys were smart enough to not come back.

So, I quit today.

Other offices in Atlanta that I'm aware of: Global Expectations, KSL Concepts

OPEN YOUR EYES

James Gang,

Some of you have worked for offices I know, some of you havent. James I do not remember you so you must not have worked very long, but you do seem to be very informed. The negative side of alot of your rebuttals is that generally you are very selective as to which people you respond. So I doubt anyone will respond to this one.

To dispel some myths:
1. DS MAX owners do not make good money.

A. It all depends on how well you run your office, it is very easy in the first year, even with over head to make forty to sixty thousand dollars.

2. DS MAX offices hire every person that walks through the door.

A. No, most managers do hire people that will be good for the client and for the office. Think about it, would I want to consign 300 dollars worth of product, or give a multi million dollar client to a disreputable individual. Shame on a manager who does.

3. All offices are controlled and run the same.

A. No, I run a very open office, my philosophy on business in general is that it is what it is. I tell ppl exactly what they will be doing, money they will be making and opportunity they will have. Most of you will write back and say this is not true and I am one of the reputable ones. That is not true, all of you writing understand the business and how it works, someone told you, you did not just figure it out for yourself.

This business is just like many and any other. It has its risks and its rewards. If I am a person who might be a good management canidate anywhere, I probably will do good here, I if I am not a good management canidate I will either learn or not be a manager anywhere. If I am good with people and sales, it can easily be applied here or in any sales environment. If not, then I will probably not be in sales anywhere. If you do work for a Ds max affiliate and dont like it quit. If you do like it, make it to management or achieve a stronger resume or a better character. Whatever you want.


As far as this being a cult. That is a very insane notion to me. The cheers that some offices do, the manner in which some of you have been treated by managers and leaders. Some of your complaints are valid if they do occur in offices to this extreme. Some of them occur in lots of business, from sports teams(the pressure to perform is high whether high paid or playing for free), to corporate giants like SAMS club and Walmart, they do cheers every morning, and if confronted by and employee with a bad attitude will repremand them and not stand for it. As for recruiting practices, look at just about any insurance company, financial investement company or real estate company. All are flooded with reps that are not very reputable, only pan out for two weeks to six months and work just as much but make far less than ds max distributers. Many of these companies hire everyone, and weed out people because they are not good in sales and cant make a living. Or get couple of sales and make them some money than Quit. (Many People In my office have worked for these companies and have quit). Almost any company in Monster.com or in the classifieds section of the newspaper operates in a similiar manner.



DS Max affiliates are not the exception, but more the norm. Not the best company or the best opportunity in the world but better than some and worse than others. Anyone can achieve success, they just have to find a place where their skills can be used. We just have an avenue, like many other companies in the sales, marketing field where a person with a good attitude, outgoing personality, and competitive streek can strive.

Now I suspect one if not all of you will harp on a minute point of my report/argument misconstrew a point I did not really mean to make in order to make me sound unjust. Or you will not respond at all, because you realize much of what I have written is true and you need not respond. Please open your eyes take a step back and realize what this industry is, mainstream, many people do commission sales or work in environments similiar to DS MAX, some of you might even own stock in these companies. I am sure some of your parents, best friends and relatives work for insurance comanies to walmart that all share many trates with DS MAX. If you want to criticize what we do here you might be dragged into a crusade with many companies and people you didn't intend. Please, if your happy in your life keep it up, if not dont try to tell me mine is worthless. I am deffinatly not the only person you are talking to.

To Dean: Are you sure you are a DS MAX owner?

Dean, apologies for the sarcasm in the title.

The question in the title refers to the fact that most of what you say is considered and indeed, correct.

I am anti- DS MAX and anti-MLM, however, but I thought I would post to:

1/ to thank you for your comments
and
2/ to correct a point or two.

1/ It is pleasing - and pleasantly surprising I might add - to hear a DS MAX owner who responds rationally and without the usual vitriol inherent in other owners' posts.

2/ Points that I disagree with:

(So you understand where I am coming from, I advise that I was a DS MAX owner for four years, albeit I have not been involved for about six years)

I disagree with the following points:
a/ "... most managers do hire people that will be good for the client and for the office."

I am afraid when I was an owner we were taught to hire 'almost' everyone that had a pulse. (Law of averages.) It costs the same amount of money to run an office with 40 people as it does to run an office with 15 people.

So, for example, if out of these 40 people, 15 of them were good merchandisers and sold 20 pieces each (total 300) and the other 25 only sold 5 each (total 125) the office total would be 425. Why get rid of the weak 25 and cost yourself 125 sales a day? Of course, all owners would keep these people, it helps the bottom line. (Nothwithstanding the fact that the weak 25 would be lucky to pay for their lunch.)

b/ "All offices are controlled and run the same.


No, I run a very open office, my philosophy on business in general is that it is what it is. I tell ppl exactly what they will be doing, money they will be making and opportunity they will have."

Dean, I can only take your word for it that you tell people exactly what they are going to be doing, opportunity, income etc.. If you are being honest I commend you.

What I do know, however, is that in my time we did not tell people the whole truth. No owner did. We didn't straight out lie, we just used silly euphemisms and answered questions with a question. (I still remember saying in my interview to the owner that "hired" me.."So what will we actually be doing tomorrow?"
To which he replied:
"Oh, you'll be seeing the merchandising side of things tomorrow... O'kay! Great! See you tomorrow!"

Perhaps things have changed and DS MAX now instill the virtues of honesty and integrity in their owners. If that IS the case, why are there so many people still feeling cheated, mislead and victimised??

Dean, I sincerely hope you are what you say you are, and do what you say you do. I'm sure, in the long run, that you will be a success in whatever you choose to do.

PS - Thank you, thank you, thank you for being the first DS MAX owner to explain your business for what it is.

I quote you - "Not the best company or the best opportunity in the world but better than some and worse than others. Anyone can achieve success, they just have to find a place where their skills can be used."

If only other DS MAX owners had your attitude I would be able to get some work done and not HAVE to post here every second day.

Good luck,

Finally, some tact and a bit of honesty...

Dean,

Thank you for responding honestly and tactfully. You probably do run your office the way you claim to. So I have no problem with you. I still do have a problem with DS-Max, however. Like you said, you wouldn't want a scumbag working for you and representing multi-million dollar clients, right? Well, apparently DS-Max doesn't care. There are no checks in place to make sure an office is run honestly.

Just to give you a few examples of what I am talking about: You said that it is easy to make forty to sixty thousand a year as an owner. That sounds like an honest number to me. But my owner told me that DS-Max would be paying me an annual salary of $60,000 after making owner, and then I would be getting overrides on top of that. I was told that $150,000.00 was what I should make when I made owner in six months. Also, when I was interviewed I was told nothing about door-to-door. My owner said nothing about "direct-sales". He said that they give presentations to potential clients before quickly booting me out the door. And speaking of the hiring process, there were some shady people working in that office. My leader and other leaders told me that no person ever gets turned down, unless they had some serious problems. And that was never an issue, since most distributors never worked alone. And one final annoyance was the way my owner always played "keeping up with the joneses" with people in the office to give the illusion that he was making lots of money.

While all this crap was going on we had leaders, owners, and VP's visiting. They saw all the crap and didn't do anything.

The owner I worked for sucked. Just by judging the rebuttals on this site I know that there are plenty like him - they all respond with the exact same drivel. Some brag about having a house and their "net-worth", some attempt to insult, and mostly all express the belief that you only have two choices in life - fast food service or DS-Max.

Like I said before, Dean, I don't think you are one of those owners (you don't sound like one anyway). But don't you realize that they are out there? Don't you realize that it is them, and not us that is tarnishing your reputation and credibility by operating with immoral practices under the same umbrella company? If you operate as openly and honestly as you claim, and if owners who don't seem to care about their client's reputation really does offend you, maybe you should call your VP or Herbjoy or whoever and suggest they clean things up a bit. That would be the most effective course of action. Coming on here and casting blame on the victims, or removing yourself from responsibility only makes you, and every other DS-Max, Granton and Cydcor Company, look worse.

Good Luck and Stay Honest!

Communication skills are essential to success

First, Yemi, the second to last sentence in your rebuttal should have read "Case IN point, neither spelling nor grammar are indicators of financial intelligence or success."

Second, I went back about twenty or so rebuttals and only found one instance where someone's grammar or spelling was called into question, yet you imply that this happens each time someone comes to the defense of DS. According to my cursory glance-over, this actually happens less than ten percent of the time. You discredit all of your statements when you make one that is so verifiably innaccurate.

Third, what you see does not necessarily equal how the world works. You didn't see any of the glaring offenses described here. That doesn't mean they don't happen. You have noticed that, in the real world, the A students end up working for the C students. I, and the rest of the world, have noticed the opposite.

Fourth (the rest of this is aimed at your statements, not you), consider this. Your boss may not be able to compose a company memo, but I bet he's a pretty good communicator nonetheless. Whether or not someone is a good speller may not be indicative of much, but you're not going to get far in this world if you can't communicate well with others.

Communicating your ideas with the proper words, said in the proper order, is a complete necessity if you want other people to have respect for what you say. It shows that you have put enough thought into what you're saying and, more importantly, that you actually believe it. If you want your ideas to gain the respect that you think they deserve, then you should present them in the best manner possible and not allow other people to call your intelligence into question.

In print form, those who cannot