U.S. ARMY SIGNAL CORPS. U.S. ARMY ENLISTMENT CONTRACT IS A RIPOFF they promise certain guarantee's and should be held obligated, the same as the soldier is held for their service obligations. i am a gulf war vet that hopes any young reader thinking about joining the army, don't! KITZINGEN, DARMSTADT Germany

There is an escape clause for them not to honor the guarantee that you signed and it is called "exigent needs of the service."

To start with, the recruiter lied to me from the get-go. He did not tell me that if you had certain education you could qualify to go in as an officer.

He also did not tell me how to survive the hell that basic training would be.

Or how those guaranteed enlistments were just so much wipe paper.

The military was phasing out the draft and starting to take volunteers,

I essentially became a MERCENARY  with all that implied.

I laughed at the Commercials. " Be All That You Can Be" and then there is the "Army of One" which was even stupider that the other one.

What you will be is disabled without compensation and friends who go to the VA do not do so good.

In basic,you will be locked up with strangers, some with fake IDs from all over the place, that have no reason to like you and a lot of stealing going on. You have no idea who these people are or how mentally sound or moral they are.

You have some fools in there who like to back stab other people and set them up for failure so they think they can get ahead.

You have NO friends and you can trust NO one so you really ARE an Army of ONE.

I have had people who have done hard time in prisons tell me their experiences in there and it sounds a lot like Basic.

I guess I was being punished for wanting to serve my country.

Basic training was just a joke with all of the bouncing quarters off our white beds and ironing uniforms all of the time or spit polishing boots which you guys don't have to do now. They push you to your limit to try and break you but they never build you back up or restore what they tried to take away. You find yourself sleeping in dumpsters, wherever you can and you don't know what they put in the food they used to serve us either.

When I went in, all of the names on the duffle bag that was issued to me should have been a warning.  They even ran out of boots so it was a lot of fun trying to do all of the required things wearing a government-issued pair of white! low-quarters tennis shoes! I got off a lot better than others in my training platoon whose feet got all torn up of boots and some got infections and had to go to the hospital.

I later found out we were getting recycled boots from guys who had gotten out one way or the other. The guys at the clothing warehouse were selling new boots and gear and I did not want to pay their going rate.

The best thing to do to get through basic, it seemed. was to break a leg on the obstacle course then you were exempt from PT and they just passed you right on through I guess so they wouldn't have to bust you out with a service-connected disability that they would have to pay you for.

I was scared OK but did what I was told and didn't get in too many fights. What you learn in there is that nobody sees a thing and nobody wants to get involved no matter what unless there is some farce of a inquiry.

I did not think too much of those injection guns --same ones they use on cattle --- which targets your upper arm and shoots you up with six or eight unknown immunizations, injections and God knows what sort of chemicals were in there! I didn't want to be their guinea  pig and since most drug tests are NOT done on Native Americans, I did not want to risk a paradoxical reaction.I really think the army would have let me die. I think I faked an allergy or something and ended up in the infirmary where I was vaccinated in the thigh with a syringe and  fresh immunization chemicals without mercury in them that I knew were OK because they were what the officers got. LOL

I always managed somehow to eat at the hospital because that is where the best food is and I know they aren't putting anything in there either as they need to have their medical team able to repair those who need it.

You know why they take your photo before basic training like they did with us? Maybe they don't do it anymore, but it was in case you died in basic due to something they did and I guess they did not want relatives or next of kin looking into it with a Senate or Congressional hearing.

The suicides, possible murders, the unknown causes of death, etc. in there, they were taken upstairs and brought down late at night in white body bags on gurneys and I think that someone could have been selling blood, bones, eyes, tissue... back then, I just thought they would stage an incident in which bodies were needed and they would have a supply of them to choose from.

They can cover up anything and people used to believe them until recently when people can finally get to a computer and let the truth be known.

There are always rumors surging all the time and who can believe any of them.

I guess I was ready for Southeast Asia because I had plenty of practice sleeping with one eye open.

Bivoac was the best part of Basic because it trains you how to live when you are homeless as so many vets of my age group were when we got out. Pay attention there because you will learn a skill in there that transfers directly to civilian life!!!!

What nobody bothered to tell me in there is that YOUR RIGHTS AS A U.S. CITIZEN UNDER THE US CONSTITUTION ARE TAKEN AWAY FROM YOU AND YOU ARE ESSENTIALLY UNDER A TOTALITARIAN RULE KNOWN AS THE UNIFORM CODE OF MILITARY JUSTICE. You were essentially right --YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS.  If you want to get a tattoo, you can be fined and even charged with damaging government property because YOU are the government property! You have been relegated to the status of an inanimate object like a desk or a chair or even a Dempsey Dumpster except I think the dumpsters get more respect.

The more things change in the Army, the more that they stay the same.

I don't know how I made out of there without a drug problem but I did.

I am not at all for alcohol because I like to know what is going on around me at all times.

I did not let their mind games become my reality.

They wanted to know how I managed that too.

It is an old Native American secret to go deep within and draw on the spirits of your ancestors and your spirit guides but they would never get it.

They tried to trick m e into going AWOL but it didn't work.

I got an Honorable Discharge.

You are right about they can do anything to you that they want and you better play politics because the military is VERY political!

There IS a lot of stealing going on from the moment you first get in the barracks before you are assigned to a TRADOC  until all the way into the Pentagon. They steal out of your paycheck anyway and every way they can. The post exchange had a lot of defective items in it like the YASCHICA  35 I bought which was defective in design from the factory and never worked. Every hand was out for a bribe.

You are going to learn how to lie  and con in there and it may save your life. Also, you learn how to turn in Oscar (and I don't mean the gas mask) award worthy performances.

My entire time in there wasn't hell but it sure seemed like it. You would never understand if you hadn't been there.

I don't like to talk about very much because of all the great war films, nobody would believe you and nobody cares anyway. It would be
 
Sure, the politicians and news media mouth all of these platitudes about supporting the troops and the sheeple repeat the bromides.

But they don't know and they don't want to know.

I think that is why there is a high rate of suicides now. There used to be when I was in but there was no internet and it was easier to cover things up.

The troops find out that they are NOT fighting to protect our country but are fighting instead for the benefit of the elite upper classes and as an excuse for the no-bid defense contractors to make some big bucks. They fight so the Afghani drug lords can continue growing poppies that benefit certain powerful and rich people when those poppies become heroin.

I am old and tired now and it hurts to remember it.

I would do it again if I felt we really were in harm's way but a lot of things would have to change that will never change.

Rebuttal from the author

Its been some years since my discharge and although my disdain for my Army experiences has calmed a bit, I should retort and reflect a bit. Ive found just as many agreeing with what I stated as there are nay-sayers. Everybodys experience is different; therefore if you have never experienced cruel treatment or had been the cause of it then you will have no sympathy for the report. Until my last duty station I had a positive attitude and view on the Army. Im unsure which factor (overseas duty station or Signal branch) fostered my experiences but one thing was for sure, there is a sense of immunity for what happens to lower enlisted (and in some cases, good leaders trying to change a corrupt policy or event) away from the continental united states (at least in Germany).The fact is serving in another country grants a buffer from investigations or interference from outside sources that may occur otherwise back in the states (ie- mom and pop showing up at the commanders office, news reporters waiting at the gate). This gives a sense of no rules for anyone wanting to manage other humans in any form they like. I had been accustomed to doing my job and completing tasks assigned to me without anyone in charge feeling the need to take advantage of their position. Arriving in Germany was a shock compared to my prior experiences and left me helpless to do anything about it. I should have taken the time to describe in better detail the events that I endured as a soldier stationed overseas but left room for critics to discount my claims. I know its hard for anyone to believe that someone in charge could enjoy making a soldiers service to their country the most negative experience possible but it happened. Looking back, Im sure that my chain of command was disinterested in what was happening and not actively involved in the conduct of my NCOs and that my sergeants had some sort of mental flaw which encouraged their behavior to suffer a subordinate. I was not the only one getting this experience but because I was older, it affected me more severely.

I have since lost contact with my comrades but some continue serving while others have gone on to better things. Yes, I met good leaders while their but sadly when it was recognized that they intended on leading troops according to normal policys, they were swiftly moved out to other assignments. I think these good people were grateful anyway since its impossible to change a sea of bad with a drop of good. Foul treatment of subordinates is like a virus. Ive seen normal NCOs arrive and within a few weeks transform into a menace just because the opportunity and encouragement was there. With that said, let me respond to some comments that need addressing:

#1 You state you were a fifteen year vet.The military is what you make of it.

My ability to attain rank is irrelevant but Ill cover this and the cop-out: what you make of it statement. As a Generator mechanic, promotion is dependent on cut off scores which if they are very high (mine was at maximum), college was needed to meet the requirement so when asked for the opportunity to attend classes, it was summarily denied many times (after which I gave up). But; the female whom had arrived fresh from training (same job) was allowed to do so because she quickly lay on her back for the NCO that mattered (she confirmed this to me), this meant her workload was transferred to me. In Germany, there were classes set up with the Universities of Maryland and Phoenix that you could attend in person but this meant duty days and being excused from after hours assignments/ training. For anyone quick to say online classes, those classes are of little credit value and after being released at 11:30pm with a wake-up of 5:30am, some sleep would have been nice. According my last contact with her she was a promotable E-6. As far as what you make of it, that cannot be realized without permission to do so. Had I attempted to make my own way the consequences would have been severe. For me to do what was in my best interest (go to school) without command approval, would have been an opportunity for punishment. There was a strict limit to what I could have done to better myself. What you make of it did not apply there.

#3 Read the Fine Print

Could you?

#4 was already addressed.

#6. Signal Corps

GOOD FOR YOU!!!! First off, you were not a mechanic and Signal troops tend to get better treatment than support elements. Many times I had to stand guard, set up YOUR camo/ tents and dont forget fixing your crappy generators that were broken because of incompetent operators, while you folks sat warm and snug in your shelters. Im glad you got everything you wanted out of the service and can label my complaints as whining. But just remember, sometime during your service some guy had to do your job because of pregnancy, school or some other reason you were treated special for being a female. If you dont believe you were given more opportunities, more awards or some other recognition because the Army feels the need to pedestal women then you are mistaken. Whatever accomplishments you made would have been less as a man.

#9 About the US Army statement

Here is an example of someone attempting to offer an opinion but never served. Because your husband was/ is active duty doesnt make you a subject matter expert to the treatment of soldier. Im sure had your husband served in my former unit you would have been just as outraged had your husband needed spinal surgery to repair what could have been prevented. You obviously have had a number of positive experiences and can paint a glorious picture of the Army but wait; Im sure you will eventually rush with rage as something is applied to your husband with cruelty. In my former unit YOU WILL NOT PACK MREs! These are issued in the field and if you are away on a mission and upon return the field kitchen/ issue is closedOh well. You have not stood in my boots and feel being a spouse entitles you to being arrogant. Your husband has also been in decent assignments and therefore you are biased. I hope experiences in the future will educate you.

#23 A horrilble story

Im unsure if the writer is being synical but Ill assume not.

I am wondering if all this was going on, why did you not contact your congressman, senator, hell why not even a reporter; they would love a story like that. Or how about calling up the EO rep or IG (I have heard the IG office is very very good) or was everyone on the base corrupt too?

You heard wrong. If you EVER involve an outside source into a chain-of-command complaint then there WILL be reprisals. The Army has skilled PR people who are more than capable of turning the allegations into warrantless complaints. As far as asking EO, IG or even the Chaplin for help, you are asking one rattlesnake to bite another. For more knowledge on this, look up Tillman and his family.

how many people have been charged with having oral sex, how do they prove this? Does the army spy on its Soldiers? Is that legal for them to do that?

Statistics and records could be presented (if youre a congressman) but this would not be a positive history to display for the average citizen (and would not be cooperated with) but; because it IS listed under UCMJ it can be enforced:

The sodomy statute, Article 125, stipulates, "Any person who is subject to this charter who engages in unnatural carnal copulation with another person of the same or opposite sex or with an animal is guilty of sodomy. Penetration, however slight, is sufficient to complete the offense." It also states, "Any person found guilty of sodomy shall be punished as a court-martial may direct."

Usually, this is used against a soldier whom the command has a gripe with. Army communities are like small cities and if a conversation is overheard or eavesdropped upon (like in a mailroom), then thats enough for a spouse, or other persons involved with the soldier to be summoned to investigative authorities (CID). Your every conduct, no matter how private, is mandated.

Do you have any specifics on the corruption?

Denial of medical treatment: When requested to attend sick call I was warned of consequences when I returned.

Denial of food: As a mechanic I worked (often) until nearly midnight. Evening meal was served 1600-1800hrs. When requested to eat and return to duty the reply was f**k NO. None of us ate but the NCOs (motor sergeant) wife delivered his food.

Denial of church services: I witnessed a female forced to do Push-ups until she vomited for insisting on attending mass. She was resistant to sleeping with the NCO and her treatment was (probably) the result of it.

How did you get your pay? direct deposit? If you had direct deposit could you not have called Dfas? I am fairly sure that most folks there are civilians and could have helped you out, and I saw on their web site

that they have a phone number or email you could have called. Are they corrupt too?

Only an E-7 or above can fix their own pay. All subordinates must me accompanied by a supervisor at a local pay branch. DFAS wont talk to you. If your NCO is unconcerned with it, it cannot be fixed.

Can you give me the name of the VA that is not helping you, are you still in GA?

I was able to increase my disability% via a lawsuit. This was necessary while an NCO (same condition) was discharged at the same time as I at my old unit with %60 out-the-door. My initial % was 10.

how are the work loads affected?

See item # 1/6

do you have any pictures or recordings of your abuse?

Failure on my part: A recorder would have held the offenders accountable but after the smoke cleared, I surely would have also felt the hammer for doing so.

masons control promotions and other favorable actions. if you are not in this club, your screwed.
==lol the folks who who love a conspiracy would have to agree with you on that! but now do you mean the African American Masons or the Knights Templar kind of mason?

In Germany, both (occult) groups have an underground effect on policies, promotions and influence unit decisions. In Darmstadt, the Masons were even given space in government offices (vacant) to hold meeting (the VFW was denied the same privilege). My 1^st sergeant was devout in this group and was able to have an unbecoming NCOs UCMJ record ignored so he could be re-promoted. If it walks like a duck.

Masons take care of their own regardless of their examples. I dont need to be present for their meetings to know they undermine the policies and authority of the Army.

rules, privileges, duties are applied differently between white and other soldiers. if you are a white male, expect to get treated like an animal.
==wow now that is a shame, usually African Americans have that issue, was your unit all African American?

Listen, until you have seen white girls pressured to giving up sex and yourself referred to as the white boy, just know that it does occur. On more than one occasion I was taken into a closed office and reminded about my race and how southern boys are all white trash. Be aware that the Army celebrates EVERY race but Caucasian (ie Heritage Month). Although this experience did not speak for the attitude of all NCOs my direct supervisor had a deep hatred for whites (yet had a taste for white women).

how do they encourage you to drink this much? Do you have proof of this?

Visit your local AAFES PX/ class six. Compare the availability of baby food/ supplies to alcohol. I am convinced that it is used as a form of control. A drunk will have no place else to succeed but the Army.

In closing, I did contact my local papers and even wrote the Secretary of Defense (without response). I did everything possible to let others know what was happening but other than a letter to the editor, I was unable to raise any concern for these issues. It was far too late for me but I hope that I somehow warned or convinced a prospective soldier to know what could happen. Service to this country does not excuse abuse or treatment that would be illegal if placed on an animal. For what you might think, I was a good, dedicated troop that experienced a helpless situation and has been forever biased against the Army because of these events. Its so frustrating to endure things like this then not find more than a handful of concern about it. There ARE good people there but the bad far at weight the good. For all my regrets I am still fortunate when compared to soldiers like Tillman. At least I still have my life.

For no#24 and others who had seen some of what I did, thank you for your reply. I did not mean that ALL asthma is fake but seen my share of dischargees exit by practicing its symptoms. I would hope that one day Army leaders are truly held accountable for their actions and not given a free hand to do what they like. Order, discipline and professionalism are a must to have an effective fighting force. To be an NCO just for the cause of suffering others for your own amusement is a scumbag in every definition. Mentorship, guidance and even the effort to turn around a bad troop should be the sergeants #1 priority. I have never (or ever had) a problem with rules or doctrines needed to form a winning team. I do have an undying hatred for anyone willing to abuse their position for their own folly.

I can assure you that if I had a son or daughter going through a similar situation, the post commander would see me in person!

Since leaving the Army, I went on to accept a government mailroom position in Stuttgart Germany. Not learning from my previous experience with the Army, I was fired shortly after for having a disability (I know your thinking yea, right!!), and was told because the Army was my employer, federal protection did not apply to me. I lost the lawsuit (discrimination case) and after some threats and warnings, returned to the states. I am still a critic of the Army and VA but must admit, the VA is generous when it comes to Vocation Rehab/ going back to school.

Ill graduate college in 2011 and move on to better things. Ill continue encouraging young folks to consider the Coast Guard or Air Force VS. the Army and share my experiences with them (if theyll listen). The Army will never change and folks like me wont make an impact. They are too concerned about political correctness and rather than doing the right thing by soldiers, would rather invest in cover-ups and a false reputation. For a tyrant, there is safety and security in the Army. They will go on to ruin good troops while advancing into retirement while we pay taxes for it. The Army will continue as a safe haven for clicks and groups leaving those not associated to fall behind and eventually get out. You may want to ask yourself why so many troops commit suicide. The Army loves to contribute this to combat stress but you can be assured the chain of command was a factor.

If you had negative experiences with the Army, please post them. Nothing was ever accomplished through silence.

My old unit has since disbanded. Good riddance to garbage.

Listen, I can totaly relate to your situation to some extent, however I still love our military, our country and encourage enlistment in the United States Military. I was discharged (general) for a bag of marijuana that was found at a part time job I held when I wasn't even there. I had two previous ART 15's before that for underage drinking. I was forced to work horrific hours, 12-14 per day, out in the zub-zero temperatures of South Dakota. It was so bad, I had to stay in exhaust fumes to keep from freezing to death while I was left out all day with no relief.

From months of mistreatment and using Auxillary Power Unit exhaust on the B-1 bomber for warmth, I have had serious and life-threatening respiratory problems, and been hospitalized many times. The VA gave me 30% for Asthma, and I could breathe perfectly when I joined. Now I need meds everyday. You know what, no one said serving your country was a walk in the park. But yes, some treatment is very unfair. The VA is just f**ked becasue all government jobs have hack's working for them. Best of luck to you, and thank you for your service.

Son, you sure do come up with a horrific story, how did you put up with living like that? I am shocked that the army treated you like that.

I am wondering if all this was going on, why did you not contact your congressman, senator, hell why not even a reporter; they would love a story like that. Or how about calling up the EO rep or IG (I have heard the IG office is very very good) or was everyone on the base corrupt too?

I have a few questions for Tommy or anyone else who has been abused like this.

---how many people have been charged with having oral sex, how do they prove this? Does the army spy on its Soldiers? Is that legal for them to do that?
=============

i never knew that the signal corp. (support force) was so corrupt. officers/ NCO's are aware of the luxury of being 3,500 miles from any agency or authority that could stop it. these are the things that made my enlistment a ripoff in germany:

==Do you have any specifics on the corruption?

never receiving correct pay. pay problems occur often. if you dont use your free time to fix it, you would never get paid. you will find hundreds of dollars missing from your pay on a nearly monthly basis.

==How did you get your pay? direct deposit? If you had direct deposit could you not have called Dfas? I am fairly sure that most folks there are civilians and could have helped you out, and I saw on their web site that they have a phone number or email you could have called. Are they corrupt too?

being denied medical attention or substandard care. i now have a permenant injury from not being allowed to see a doctor until surgery was required. i would like to give a big middle finger to the Veterans Affairs for screwing me while giving 100% disability to fake knee injuries and asthma complainer's. thanks for nothing.
==Can you give me the name of the VA that is not helping you, are you still in GA?

unfair standards. females are given easier physical training standards but receive the same pay. workloads are also affected.
==how are the work loads affected?

mental and physical abuse buy NCO's. these people can do anything to you, anytime they wish and there's not a d**n thing you can do about it. the law of regulations does not apply to them. if you attempt to defend yourself in any way, you will be severely punished.
==do you have any pictures or recordings of your abuse?

masons control promotions and other favorable actions. if you are not in this club, your screwed.
==lol the folks who who love a conspiracy would have to agree with you on that! but now do you mean the African American Masons or the Knights Templar kind of mason?

rules, privileges, duties are applied differently between white and other soldiers. if you are a white male, expect to get treated like an animal.
==wow now that is a shame, usually African Americans have that issue, was your unit all African American?

while smoking is almost totally forbidden on base, drinking is encouraged to the point of alcoholism. this is almost a requirement to avoid being chosen for unexpected weekend duties. i didn't know i would have to get 'tanked' in order to be left alone.
==how do they encourage you to drink this much? Do you have proof of this?


folks in order to stop this abuse you have to have proof, these accusations would not stand up in court without some evidence. If my child was in the armed forces and endured that I would be calling every senator, congressman, radio station, hell even Imus to make my story heard.

Yeah, I understand about what the guy endured in Germany.
I had a few team leaders who were run like dogs and almost died because of it.
I got smoked a decent amount but was not treated unfairly...until I got to recruiting.
God****, that sucked.
I didn't join the Army to talk some little coke-snorting p.o.s. punk@$$ kid into filling my ranks.
To hell with that.
I joined to fight overseas, and was more reserved when it came to talking to people, but I could do my combat job well enough to save my @$$ and others.
Then, I come to recruiting, get told I'm a complete piece of $#!t by a guy who couldn't have filled my jump boots on his best day, was told I was a disgrace as a soldier and a man, and was constantly treated like crap because I couldn't recruit.
I tried and failed, and they held onto me relentlessly.
Even when I filed multiple 4187s to get the hell out, I was stuck when they were all shot down.
I have had numerous incidents with certain immature senior NCOs over stupid things, and when they were "allegedly" at a football game, they were really dippin' deps at a Motel 6 not one mile from the station.
And, to make matters worse, even though I knew the stuff for the E-5 board, they refused to send me because I wouldn't cheat on my wife and get tore up on duty with them.
After re-enlisting, the 1st Sergeant over-rode my station commander's bigotry, and I got promoted after only one shot at the board.
I'm out now and, though I miss my combat brothers, I don't miss recruiting.
If they were on fire I wouldn't piss on them to put them out.

i got it out for ole bob because he likes to cut down everyone and claim he is a hero, which every servicemember i know and have ever met do not tend to do. so that and among other reasons leads me to beleive and know that robert is not who he claims to be.

As to my employment i was honorably Discharged off of active duty on 08JAN2006 and joined the reservesto continue my service and start a civillian career. I attended the Eastern Missouri Police academy and upon graduation in August of this year was commisoned as a peace officer of Franklin County in this fine state of Missouri.

i cant list the website but google search the Sheriffs Dept. in Franklin County and my smiling face will be staring back at you in the officers profile. Im the only Dan in the department so im not hard to miss. Lastly, This is an Army Grunt And a Marine Grunt dispute, no room for the Chair Force. Stress Cards are a military wide dispute, I've never seen one and all of the people in my unit have never seen one, but if i'm wrong just prove it and i'll gladly admit it. I would have loved to meet robert, absolutley loved to but i didnt.Hey bob, how come you were in for 9 years and only came out a buck seargent?

When I was getting out, the Marines were issuing them to the recruits. They were supposed to be turned back in after they graduated. Many still had them when they met me. Sucked to be them.

The Navy decided in 1997 the cards were a bad idea, and decided to stop the use of them.

Army recruiters I personally know, say they are still used in some of their Basic Training facilities. Not all...some.

I think Dan is just sad he never got to meet me. If he was in 3/1, he would have been a Hollywood Marine. As such, we never would have crossed paths.

I had it backwards. Dan says no cards, Robert says there are. So, reverse what I said about the cards.

But, I still want to know why Dan is so hot after Robert.

I do not always agree with what Robert has to say, but there are certain things he and I agree on totally. And this is one of them.

You know, the internet can be the biggest rumor mill in the world at times (email is worse though), but it can also be your best resource for information. There is one site I always go to when I want to see if a rumor is true or not, and that's Snopes.com. They seem to know when something is true, or just an urban legend.

In this case, the Stress Card issue is kind of interesting. According to Snopes, the Navy introduced Stress Cards back in the early 90's. But it was not what most people think they were. It was simply just an information card that personnel could reference when dealing with stress. It was not a "get off my back" card. This information was posted in 2002.

Then I Googled "US Army Stress Card" and came up with several sites (including the Snopes link). I found a few military discussion forums that talked about this. Some people said these existed, but ALL of them seemed to have gotten their information from second hand sources. Several current and former military members came forth and said that Stress Cards DO NOT EXIST! I tend to take their word for it.

And this to Dan; why do you have such a bug up your butt about Robert? I mean, yeah, I didn't really agree with him about first class vs. the type of people who sit in coach (as I fly coach regularly and have no problems). But I see no reason to beat him up about his military career.

I did 6 years Air Force from 84-91. I had a classified AFSC (or MOS for you Army and Marine Corps grunts) and still can't talk openly about what I did as it was all TS-SCI (Top Secret - Special Compartmented Information). So what. Doesn't mean I didn't serve, or that I'm using it as a cover.

And unless you have some first hand personal knowledge of Robert, his past, his police record, or his current business, then I would suggest you watch what you post on here. As Robert said, it could come back to bite you in the *&*.

Oh, and by the way. I couldn't help but notice that you recently posted on the Pat Benatar report that you are a Sherriff's Deputy. But on here, you post as if you are a current military member. So, which is it?

"hey bob its dan, remember, dan? the guy that shut you down from the signal corps thread? anyway thats irrellivent."

Pretty much everything you write is irrelevant. I'm still trying to see where you shut me down.

You say there are no stress cards, and yet everyone else says there are.

How exactly did you shut me down?

And, you never did explain your interest in my trousers.

In another thread, you claim to have put me in my place about the stress cards.

And yet, they DO exist.

I guess "my place" is in the position of leadership. Your's appears to be in a lower one.

Just to comment.

I served in the Army from 88-93 and yes there were indeed stress cards towards the end of my tour. I did not have to opportunity to get issued one, but the new recruits sure did. I wouldn't say it had anything to do with the service, but politics. Stress cards or not, everyone who served in any of the services with respect and honorably has my respect.

Just to comment.

I served in the Army from 88-93 and yes there were indeed stress cards towards the end of my tour. I did not have to opportunity to get issued one, but the new recruits sure did. I wouldn't say it had anything to do with the service, but politics. Stress cards or not, everyone who served in any of the services with respect and honorably has my respect.

Just to comment.

I served in the Army from 88-93 and yes there were indeed stress cards towards the end of my tour. I did not have to opportunity to get issued one, but the new recruits sure did. I wouldn't say it had anything to do with the service, but politics. Stress cards or not, everyone who served in any of the services with respect and honorably has my respect.

Just to comment.

I served in the Army from 88-93 and yes there were indeed stress cards towards the end of my tour. I did not have to opportunity to get issued one, but the new recruits sure did. I wouldn't say it had anything to do with the service, but politics. Stress cards or not, everyone who served in any of the services with respect and honorably has my respect.

First, Marines say OOH-RAH!, not HOORAH.

Second, while YOU say the Army does not use "stress cards", EVERY other Army Dog I know says they do. This includes Command Staff, and Recruiters, Drill Sargeants, and Grunts.

So, it appears the Army DOES use them.

Why are you so interested in my pants?

And in the military, anyone above your rank is a tyrannical power. I got that message from my father decades ago from when he was serving in the air force. A young, snotnosed CO would have them stand at attention for hours sometime and for no apparent reason assult some soldier standing there. One day my father was at attention and without a word this jerkoff kicked him in the shin hard enough to cause a fracture. My Dad determined when he got out of the infirmiry, he was going to @$@# this punk but to his surprise, this guy got promoted up the ranks that week. In the military higher ups get away with that kind of abuse with no reprimand or justice whatsoever.

yes ofcourse bob, you obviousley know about every branch. Ive been in for 3 years, spent 12 months in OIF and done many joint training excersizes. Maybe Marines use stress cards but there in the department of the navy so that really wouldnt surprise me. Saying all the Army uses them is like saying everyone gets those cushy 7 month on 7 month off deployments, or only have 17,000 troops in Iraq, no wait a minute thats just the Marines too!! U.S Army : 100,000 troops in Iraq, 12 months on 6 months off deployments, control capital City of Bagdhad and 95% of all Iraqi Cities, 101st Airborne SCREAMIN' EAGLES killed Udday And Qusaye, 4th Infantry Division captured Saddam. The Army didnt need stress cards to do that, but the Marines, they want all kinds of things. Its okay bob, we all know the U.S Army is the powerhouse of the Military and the tip of the spearhead. oh yeah i figure id ask a die-hard marine like yourself, why did the Marines steal the Army Phrase HOOAH and just add an r? Did you think we wouldnt notice bob? you take care bob, but dont be to mean to "your" marines, after all you are the gentler, more civillized and fancy dressed branch. The stress cards are blue huh? isnt that the color of your dress pants? coincidence? no bob, its not.

ALL the branches use them. They are blue...a very relaxing color.

I had all my Marines tear them up when they got to me. I made sure they all had their minimum daily allowance of stress. Anyone who could deal with me for 12 hours/day, would never complain about the enemy stressing them out.

Mrs.Donna in Silsbee TX i am in the "new" Army and stress cards are a rumor, they do not exist. Your story was quite entertaining, i bet the amount of truth in it is equal to a grain of salt. get your facts straight, and open your mond before you open your mouth.

My husband is active US Army, has been for the last 5 yrs and is an E-4, and also a two time veteran, on his way to a third at the age of 23. Anyone who signs up knows easy is the LAST thing to expect and you will follow a chain of command. You are yelled at, have luxieries taken away and will be mentally stripped to prepare you for what you might have to deal with during combat war time. You alone should know that being stuck in the Iraqi desert, sometimes the luxeries of the food youre used to back home arent readily available. As far as no food being provided, you are REQUIRED to pack MRE's before any mission and it is to be cleared through your chain of command prior to any type of mission. If you've simply cleared through yours its your problem for not being well enough prepared. As far as false advertisement, I recal seeing an advertisement for the Special Forces on television stating 'You have enough supplies for 5 days, and you're on day 15'. Being derived of everything but the basics in life is told to you at basic training, sorry if your werent paying attention. As far as being yelled at by your chain of command and feeling as you are being belittled, those men have been in far longer than you have been and have obviously done a better job, meaning they would know what they are doing well above you. And as we all know enemy fire is not the quietest thing in the world, the only way to hear a command is it being screamed over an enemy attack, the tone used in basic and active training is preparing you for that. Everyone with any type of common sense knows joining any branch of the military is the hardest job anyone in any country could ever have. If you had such a problem with it, you should have left at your first ETS date, not 15 years later.

I served in two branches. In my day, Marines were promised to be in "aviation" if they signed up for four years. That was a real hoot. The Marines kept their promise, making them door gunners. In the Army, we had "communication specialists" that were actually guy with shovels that buried wires, or had a radio strapped to their backs and sent with the grunts. The Navy has "firemen" that are kept in the engine room, the list goes on. Imagine the look on a medic's face when he was handed a shotgun and realized he was going to have to fight. Guys thought they would be in cushy jobs and found out otherwise. The basic rule is that when you're in the military, you do what they need you to do, and a lot of the jobs are hard labor of one sort or another. NCO's DO run the show, a staff sergeant or above is like God as far as privates are concerned, and an officer is is not likely to buck his sergeants. An NCO's job is to get people to do dangerous, life-threatening things that other people would not do, so they have got to be tough.

As an ex member of the US Military in Germany, I can attest to the mistreatment of all junior enlisted soldiers by the NCOs, and by extension, the Officers appointed over them. Most Senior NCO's have the ability to do anything and everything they wish, because they have no direct supervision. The Officers over them only know what these NCOs tell them. One Army SFC really had it for me and, because I was white, made me pay daily for this. (Is it a coincidence that I was also Signal???) If he made a statement or an order, and didn't like it later, his reply to the Commander was, "I never said that"....SFC vs junior enlisted....hmmmm, wonder who wins? The second best day of my life was when this unqualified individual was shipped to a tanker unit (hope he got run over by his own troops). The best day was my "Independence Day" when I was through with them. They even tried to hold me an extra day because my release date was July 4th and all the officers that could sign my discharge were no where to be found. After I stated the facts, they found someone to release me on July 3rd REAL FAST. Remember, life in a Army unit in the states is not the same. Overseas, they do what they want. By the way, a junior enlisted person making next to minimum wage with spouse and kids qualifies for welfare and foodstamps in the US. In Germany, you get NOTHING.

As an ex member of the US Military in Germany, I can attest to the mistreatment of all junior enlisted soldiers by the NCOs, and by extension, the Officers appointed over them. Most Senior NCO's have the ability to do anything and everything they wish, because they have no direct supervision. The Officers over them only know what these NCOs tell them. One Army SFC really had it for me and, because I was white, made me pay daily for this. (Is it a coincidence that I was also Signal???) If he made a statement or an order, and didn't like it later, his reply to the Commander was, "I never said that"....SFC vs junior enlisted....hmmmm, wonder who wins? The second best day of my life was when this unqualified individual was shipped to a tanker unit (hope he got run over by his own troops). The best day was my "Independence Day" when I was through with them. They even tried to hold me an extra day because my release date was July 4th and all the officers that could sign my discharge were no where to be found. After I stated the facts, they found someone to release me on July 3rd REAL FAST. Remember, life in a Army unit in the states is not the same. Overseas, they do what they want. By the way, a junior enlisted person making next to minimum wage with spouse and kids qualifies for welfare and foodstamps in the US. In Germany, you get NOTHING.

As an ex member of the US Military in Germany, I can attest to the mistreatment of all junior enlisted soldiers by the NCOs, and by extension, the Officers appointed over them. Most Senior NCO's have the ability to do anything and everything they wish, because they have no direct supervision. The Officers over them only know what these NCOs tell them. One Army SFC really had it for me and, because I was white, made me pay daily for this. (Is it a coincidence that I was also Signal???) If he made a statement or an order, and didn't like it later, his reply to the Commander was, "I never said that"....SFC vs junior enlisted....hmmmm, wonder who wins? The second best day of my life was when this unqualified individual was shipped to a tanker unit (hope he got run over by his own troops). The best day was my "Independence Day" when I was through with them. They even tried to hold me an extra day because my release date was July 4th and all the officers that could sign my discharge were no where to be found. After I stated the facts, they found someone to release me on July 3rd REAL FAST. Remember, life in a Army unit in the states is not the same. Overseas, they do what they want. By the way, a junior enlisted person making next to minimum wage with spouse and kids qualifies for welfare and foodstamps in the US. In Germany, you get NOTHING.

I was in the Signal Corps (31K,31U)for twelve years altogether,ten active,2 in guard. I am thinking you also did not make it above E-4 and thats most of the concern for your complaint. I too am a Gulf War Vet. The signal personnel are the first ones on site to set up commo and always the last to leave. The unit mess hall usually goes out with them to set up also, prior to the other personnel arriving. I spent five years in Germany in snow up to my@!# pulling WD-1 through the snow and fixing radios in freezing weather. I know first hand what its like. Not once did I complain. It was my job.When I came in(1985) there was no such thing as a stress card. Usually when an NCO yells at you ,you are screwing up which can cause the effectiveness of a mission or the safety of those around you. This is what I am guessing happened to you. Sick call is every morning prior to PT.(This is when most of the profiles liked to go, so they would not have to do Pt).If you were an E-4, your squad leader or platoon sgt should have gotten you some MRE's until the field kitchen was setup. An NCO with integrity will always look out for their troops first and see they get fed first, showered, etc., We would go up to almost a month sometimes without a shower.Sometimes thats all we had--so quit your whining.We were on missions sometimes for longer than 18 hours without sleep--sometimes days--18 hours! some jobs out here expect the same!!I always did what I was told unless it was an unlawful order.Did you ever hear of the chain of command? If one didn't help, keep going up to the next.
I carried all my own equipment, duffle bags, and was a 50 cal gunner for two years.
If you were so dismayed by it, why did you stay in so long? I regret ever getting out, because it sucks out here. But now that I have seen the influx of our future fighting force with their stress cards, I am glad I did. I do not think I can handle being with the whiners.I am by no means saying all troops are whiners, but the ones who are make it tough for the ones who are not.There are alot of great soldiers out there who believe in what they do and I support the military 110%.
The reason I am telling you this is because I am a female and was in the signal corps. My job I always had to work twice as hard as the men to prove myself, (they were always waiting for you to start whining or fall on your face)since it is a male dominated field.

I dont get it.
since leaving the army, i have tried to describe abusive events that are taking place in germany against the ranks PVT E-1 to specialist E-4 to the folks back home, but everything i have said fell on deaf ears. how the hell can you possibly justify an NCO or officer abusing their authority and position to cause harm or gain from a soldier that is suppose to trust them?!! what if it were your son or daughter that ended up a cripple because of their leaders "n**i" like use of power and denial of medical services? what if your daughter was encouraged to have relationships with NCO's even though army regulations forbade such fraternizing? what if your son or daughter was left six hours on guard duty (training, not wartime) in -0 temperatures, then, either claim it was their fault for getting frost bit or say something corny like "thats good training"!!! i am gonna give up this cause because if atleast vets can't get fired up about it then it's pointless. i want to apologize to my fellow soldiers i left behind in that mess, because i promised them i would tell everyone what was happening over there and get things fixed, but i have failed. my advise to you is to change duty stations (which is not done anymore, soldiers are assigned to units for life now) or simply do not re-enlist. it's ashame too because we are losing good, decent people while shitbags stay for twenty years and retire on our taxes.
if you stand idle while an injustice is done, you are just as guilty as the offender.
i tried my best.

I am not going to try to justify the abuse you have suffered. I am not going to tell you the people you paint as corrupt have also been the victims of corruption at one time or another, or may become victims in the future.
I am going to tell you that I hate doing laundry, their is absolutelly no challenge to it. No thrill, no great discovery, yet it must be done because I need clean clothes.
I also hate kissing my husband good-bye when he leaves for another deployment and I hate that he has missed (and will miss)so much of his children's lives.

But most of all, I hate those people who think my children have no right to have a life outside of slavery, I don't even like them treating thier own children that way.
So I suck it up and smile when I kiss him good-bye.

I wish you wisdom kid, I hope that you will not waste too many of your years before you figure out that your life is your responsibility, Just like collage, a place of work, or trying to save the world in a vollenteer position. You will only get out of it, the effort you put into it. Yes, you will see many abuses, of all kinds, along your path in life. Live with them, run from them or fix them. The choice is yours.

On the back of every enlistment contract, there is a clause that explicitely states, that absolutely nothing promised to the enlistee is binding on the US Government, nor any of it's angencies.

AND GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS !!

You state you were a fifteen year vet. I guess 10 years active and maybe 5 years reserve duty. From the sound of your post, you seem to have it out for NCO's and officers. Did you not make it to the NCO ranks during your time in? Even though my time was spent in the Marines, I spent some time with the army and some of what you say rings true. I spent many hours cleaning toilets and buffing floors. The military is what you make of it. God bless our troops and those navy guys.

You state you were a fifteen year vet. I guess 10 years active and maybe 5 years reserve duty. From the sound of your post, you seem to have it out for NCO's and officers. Did you not make it to the NCO ranks during your time in? Even though my time was spent in the Marines, I spent some time with the army and some of what you say rings true. I spent many hours cleaning toilets and buffing floors. The military is what you make of it. God bless our troops and those navy guys.

You state you were a fifteen year vet. I guess 10 years active and maybe 5 years reserve duty. From the sound of your post, you seem to have it out for NCO's and officers. Did you not make it to the NCO ranks during your time in? Even though my time was spent in the Marines, I spent some time with the army and some of what you say rings true. I spent many hours cleaning toilets and buffing floors. The military is what you make of it. God bless our troops and those navy guys.

You state you were a fifteen year vet. I guess 10 years active and maybe 5 years reserve duty. From the sound of your post, you seem to have it out for NCO's and officers. Did you not make it to the NCO ranks during your time in? Even though my time was spent in the Marines, I spent some time with the army and some of what you say rings true. I spent many hours cleaning toilets and buffing floors. The military is what you make of it. God bless our troops and those navy guys.