#1 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Robert - Rockford ()
SUBMITTED: Thursday, May 02, 2002
POSTED: Friday, May 03, 2002
Hi,I'm an independant owner in the DS-MAX group of business. I can understand how someone could see our business as a cult due to the sales techniques involved. But that is all they are.
To do direct sales to the business owner or public, take a lot of motivation. Also, if you couldn't handle making money off the commission given, then you should just take it as an experience and not have un-needed hate towards the company that turned me from a less than favorable lifestyle with no future --into a business owner and someone my parents are proud of.
#2 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: bill - guilford ()
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, May 15, 2002
POSTED: Thursday, May 16, 2002
I was in DS-Max for years - not for this office, but on the west coast. I can see how people would say it is cultish and complain about lack of pay. People do get close and sometimes it doesn't.
If you can not handle working commission, then the owner who responded is correct - just quit! I suspect that the person who filed this report contributed to her unhappy outcome.
Grow up! Some people get very successful with DS-max. For that reason I would never say don't try it. But the thing to do is to set time limits and live up to the time limits. Success in DS-max requires a type of personality. If thats not you -get out! If you don't you will end up broke and maybe homeless.
I will say this though - succeed or fall on your face, the business will teach you about life and having confidence and train you to be tougher than you ever thought you could be. Realize that the people around you want to keep you in. They are good people. But do not waste your time like I did if you just are not cut out for the business. You'll make more working at minimum wage.
#3 Employee
AUTHOR: Employee - Los Angeles ()
SUBMITTED: Thursday, August 08, 2002
POSTED: Friday, August 09, 2002
DS Max offers and opportunity that not everyone can handle. This buisness is for people who want to own their own buisness are are willing to work for it. It is not for people who want easy money. If short term goals are all that you are concerned with, than this company is not for you. If you are the type of person that can see the bigger picture, and are willing to work hard for success, that give the company a try. People shouldn't be bitter if the company does not work for them. That just means that they don't have what it takes. Its not a bad thing, but just accept it and move on.
#4 Employee
AUTHOR: Shawn - Rochester ()
SUBMITTED: Sunday, August 11, 2002
POSTED: Monday, August 12, 2002
You're right in stating this company seems like a cult...my co-workers and I joke about this fact quite often actually. However, it is anything but. After only working with DS Max for a few short weeks I realized how amazing this company really is. It is NOT for everyone, that fact is plain.
It takes a very unique person with a headstrong and confident personality to succeed in this business. Why do you think our mascot is the Rhino?
Impervious to outside forces the rhino forges ahead in the worst conditions alowing the horrible things in life to bounce off it's tough exterior. If you cannot handle the long hours, negatives on the field, and having work become your entire life...get out. However, do not discourage others from expanding thier horizons and attempting what, at times, seems impossable. When focused on the short term-this job is not going to make you successful. But when focused on what great changes can be made in your life and the lives of others through DS Max, the rewards far out weigh the negatives encountered. I, personaly, am looking at this company as a way to learn how to own and operate my own business in comparison to recieving a business degree from any college or university.
After 4 years of paying upwards of $20,000 a year you recieve a piece of paper which qualifies you to open your own business...if you had the opportunity to.
DS Max, in a matter of 6-8 months will teach you the same information, pay you in the process, and in the end you will have your own business. Somehow, DS Max just seems like the better option.
I was going to college for Music Ed. and felt I was being boxed into a life I didn't want, then I found DS Max. This company has completely changed my life in a matter of weeks and I can't thank God enough for placing me here. In short, do not allow your bad experience to extinguish the fuse lit by this company.....JUICE!!!!!!
#5 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: don - madison ()
SUBMITTED: Sunday, August 11, 2002
POSTED: Monday, August 12, 2002
Yeah right. Long term goals. Set your long term goals to run your own business. Sounds just great.
Dsmax waives a carrot in front of your nose - financial independance - and gets you to go for it. Little by little they tell you what it takes to get it. If people up front new what they were up against - no one would show up for a job!
Even when you first try out the job on a day of observation - you are told that you will spend the day in the field with a manager. What you really do is watch the manager sell products door to door. So right from day 1 all you are getting is half truths to start and then the rest of the truth later on.
Then you get trained and they hype up owning your own business to you. They get you begging to find out how to advance. Now you find out that all you have to do - is train a sales crew. When you build enough people, you will earn a percentage of what they sell (You don't make ANY money off ANY them UNTIL you have built a huge worthy of being promoted)and take a crew and start your own office.
When your crew is in training you pay them (or any other new person you are set up to train that day) a part of your daily commission (unless the person makes money himself - what a relief for you!).
There is so much turn around - that you are always giving your money out to people who don't even last the week. Yet you get programmed to believe that you should always be asking to train a new person or take out an unsuspecting job candidate to build your crew. (All the while you are wondering if you will have enough money for your car payment.)
I will not deny that some people do succeed with dsmax. Offices around the globe and 10,000 managers is nothing to snear at. I will not deny that many people have made lots of money with the company. I will not deny that people learn and grow and have great friendships.
I will say that only a small percentage of people succeed. And that if you DO commit to long term goals with Dsmax and you do not make it - you are financially doomed. You've payed thousands out to a crew that didn't make it and lets not even start about owing the government money for taxes (You are a 1099).
#6 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Janine - Tampa ()
SUBMITTED: Friday, August 16, 2002
POSTED: Saturday, August 17, 2002
DS-Max pulled my resume off of hotjobs, contacted me for an interview. The girl who called me didn't want to go into details of what kind of job it was.
When I went in for my interview, there was no company name on the door, the receptionist was simply answering the phone "Advertising", and they were pumping through the interviews at a rapid pace.
I've lived in Florida long enough to know that there are a lot of rip-off companies here and have learned to recognize the signs. All of the above made me very wary. When I interviewed, the gentleman asked me about one question about myself. Weird. I got out of there and looked them up on the web and all I've found was bad things like this.
#7 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: Ariel - New York ()
SUBMITTED: Monday, August 26, 2002
POSTED: Tuesday, August 27, 2002
I responded to a DS Max ad over 3 yeas ago. I worked as an analyst for a major brokerage firm before starting work there/ Yes, they took me out first day and said I would be reviewed by a senior manager who would take me out on the field to view how he sold products.
It rained that day and I was about to walk away never to return after a horrific day of walking thru the Bronx door to door, business to business selling monkey dolls, little radios and children's toys. It was a nightmare, but I stayed and was awarded $45.00 for my first day.
I was paid this amount for about a week before venturing on my own. After about three weeks I was their top seller and brought in about $250-300 per day. All this money went to the company, except my commission; which was about $75 per day less the money I had to pay out of pocket to new potential hires.
So, I was fortunate to take home $30-35 per day or $175.00 per week tops for working hours that began at 7:30-8:00 AM thru 7 PM. 55 hours of work beating the streets in all types of inclimate weather and security tossing you out from place to place for less than $3.00 per hour!!
Build up a crew, that pyramids to your crew building a crew and the money flows, right? Wrong. Often potential members quit and you're back at square one. Sure people make it, but that's after loads of sacrifices. No insurance benefits or paid vacation. No pension unless part of executive management. It's a rip-off. The money flows to corporate and that's where the money is. They provide cheap products from China, but sell the company as though it's products were Tiffany's.
It's a grueling life and everyone is recruited. ACE Management made the decision to hire all prospective candidates regardless of background in 98% of the cases. So, this "We're selective" policy is all a hoax to trick the prospective candidate into thinking they're one of the chosen few.
During my four months as an ACE employee, I probably earned $2,800, which equates to less than $9,000 earned per annum for an individual responsible for bringing in approx. $16,000 in sales over 4 months. I received every plaque and sales award possible, 4 plaques for excellence in one month!!! A recruiting ploy to keep you retained.
DS Max is a sweat factory that abuses its workers and monitors ones life by keeping the core group together at all costs. When you see an ad that advertises for warehouse workers, sales and management jobs, factory work, run, run, run. There are no such positions; only sales and believe me. It's a killer!! They fill your head with promises of millions (who wouldn't be intrigued) and deliver corn.
I am now back in the corporate world; a world DS Max promotes as a job for suckers. Well, I am a $105K per annum sucker with an office, A/C, full lunch hours and a bevy of other benefits. I still may put in 50-55 hours of work as an analyst, but believe me it's not at a glorified $3.00 per hour.
I speak the truth.
#8 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: APRIL - CAMBRIDGE ()
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, August 27, 2002
POSTED: Wednesday, August 28, 2002
i JUST AGREED TO ACCEPT A DAY OF OBSERVATION WITH DS MAX AND WANT TO THANK ALL OF YOU FOR SAYING SOMETHING. I AM A SINGLE MOM THAT ALMOST GAVE UP A DECENT JOB FOR A SCAM THAT PROBABLY WOULD HAVE BROKE ME!! GOOD THING I DECIDED TO CHECK IT OUT ON THE NET, EH!
#9 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: Girlfriend of Ex Employee - Louisville ()
SUBMITTED: Sunday, September 01, 2002
POSTED: Monday, September 02, 2002
My boyfriend had a good paying job, with excellent insurance, vacation, paid hollidays, and college tuition. I was living 2 hours away at the time and he decided that he wanted me to move to Louisville with him, we had been together for almost 3 years. He decided to get a second job to save up money before I moved up there. Well guess where his new job was? Of course a division of
DS-Max. For a while he was working at dsmax from 7am until 8pm and then he would go to his other job from 1am until 630am. They told him at dsmax that if he wanted a future at dsmax than he would have to give up his other job and of course they promised him the world.
He was doing very well for a few months, and his confidence went sky high.....then he would become almost obbsessed with this job and he is not one to even like work, but I was happy for him because it seemed so promising and rewarding, other than the fact that I would pray that nothing happened to him because he had no insurance. On Thanksgiving instead of coming home to be with me and his family he went to his bosses home and ate with them where later that night I was introduced, it seemed funny the way that her and her husband(another owener of the same company) were acting. They didn't want us to leave and asked him what my problem was. I later found out that they were telling him all kinds of negative things about me and even trying to fix him up with other girls in the office.
I finally asked him one night if he even remembered why he had taken the job........and his only reason was to make money...nevermind me moving there with him, so I finally left. He was bringing home 20 dollars on a good day because he had to pay everyone else on his crew that day so that they wouldn't leave, and finally him, and three other guys walked out.
They promise you the world..........but don't even give you a penny. They brainwash you into believing that they are the most important thing in your life when they don't care!!!! My boyfriend lost me and his best friend in the process......now he has us both back and he is a happier person. I strongly encourage anyone who wants a LIFE of any kind to stay away from this company or should i say cult!!!!
#10 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Sherry - Beverly ()
SUBMITTED: Sunday, September 08, 2002
POSTED: Monday, September 09, 2002
I was relieved to finally find something on this so called "promising" company! About four months ago my sister was thrilled to finally have landed a job with great opportunities..we were so excited for her. DS-Max promised the world. My sister is broke, but works 14 hour days, has been homeless for months, can not pay her car payment..
My sister would tell horrifying stories about the way fellow employees would treat each other.. shunned and ignored if you did not bring in enough money.. told who you could and could not talk to.. would be ridiculed if you asked for a day off to spend with your family... sent on road trips without provisions being made thus sleeping in their cars in unknown neighborhoods.. sent into terrifying neighborhoods where one fellow
employee was held at gun point and others were told to return to the same place to make money.. leaders calling her at all hours of the night to ensure she was where she was supposed to be but no way for her family to contact her.. Well, we hardly ever hear from her now and if we do, the only thing she can talk about is this wonderful company...so wonderful she no longer visits with her baby sisters, or any of her family as she has a new family now, and can not "live".
She is worse off financially and her family misses her. If we try to confront her she responds "of course you do not understand, you are not part of the company".. or does she mean cult! A cult that controls the way she speaks.. she now has a DS-MAX language, thinks and acts. Stay away, it is all bad news at DS-MAX!
#11 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: no name - no city ()
SUBMITTED: Saturday, September 21, 2002
POSTED: Sunday, September 22, 2002
My good friends S.R., J.A. and S.S. were in this company. I have lost contact with them so I won't use their full names. They worked hard and built crews in San Diego. They had a corrupt manager that falsely promoted them.
They wouldn't be completely promoted and he would move them to another location, give them no help, only allow them a fraction of their crew, and expect them to get finished being promoted where they were.
He kept all the money himself. He made promises that he couldn't keep because he would blow all his money on casinos. This manager used the dsmax / cydcor hype to get them motivated and do what he wanted. But he never followed through on his part. All 3 left the company flat broke. The manager got shut down for bad business practices.
I have two other friends that built a crew and were running an office. They were doing fine. Then the promoting managers sales slipped. He shut them down, put them back in his office. He only gave them a small percentage of what they should have been making and kept all the money himself. Because this unscrupulous manager was a partner with someone very high up in the company, noone had the courage to question him. And because the partner was busy doing other things, he never payed attention to it.
If dsmax / cydcor were run honestly, or had more regulations, these things might not happen. Lots piss poor owners that never really want to honestly promote anyone are involved. They use the system to get people to sell their stuff. They make quick money. The reps get frustrated and quit. They just hire more people.
My other friend L.L. had a family to feed and was great in sales. For one year he split his daily income with flaky reps under this same manager. He got nowhere.
Another manager I know also got shut down for bad business practices. Not before embezzling thousands of dollars from his employees and his business partner. An employee would make say fifteen sales a week. He would resign up a custome that the employee signed up and take all the commission for himself. He would just tell the employee that the application got rejected. And ususally, the employee would never find out the truth. Oh - ... I could give names. With this story in particular there are some big names. But I don't want that kind of attention for myself. I just want to let people know that this company has some evil vicious sides and that it is not all it is cracked up to be.
It is ok to question DSMax. What is wrong all you owners out there? Can't control free speach on the internet like you can in your staged fake atmosphere rooms? Can't get your puppet leaders to pull me aside and either fire me or fill my mind with yet MORE hype about the business and my soon to come financial independance? Can't keep your new people away from my negative attitude! Better call a leaders meeting quick and teach everyone to ignore this message so that they don't start doubting their purpose after a zero day or losing an umpteenth crew.
#12 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: abbie - farmingdale ()
SUBMITTED: Monday, September 23, 2002
POSTED: Tuesday, September 24, 2002
I'm really shocked that anyone who was married or had children was even accepted. I thought it was a standard DS Max "rule" that people who were either over 30 or were married or had children were a big no no, at least that's how it was at my office. My manager told one girl who was married and, at the time having problems in her marriage caused by the job, to divorce her husband because "he was holding her back and she'd never be sucessful in life". H
e did that in front of all the leaders on an almost regular basis. He would also tell me, and I found out later he told all the other women as well, to end our relationships to our boyfriends/husbands to be with him.
Nobody over the age of 30 got past the Day of Ob and they weeded out the people who had "other" responsibilities, i.e. children, real quick too. All they wanted were young impressionable minds that they could make sales zombies out of.
#13 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: Nathan - tuba city ()
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, September 24, 2002
POSTED: Wednesday, September 25, 2002
The offices I was in would take anyone that could sell - no matter what their age. We had people from their 50's and 60's on down. Some of them were the consistant cash cows for the owners. I can see where hiring some one young would be necessary in advertising where you run half the day in residential, and clearance where you carry a big load. But in communications - business owners trusted older looking people and it is not as physicly demanding.
Too answer your question, the people I spoke about were all in their 20's. I can understand why someone would think that you need someone young and dumb to brainwash into the business. But older fell into the trap too.
Dsmax was like a cult. If you acted positive, you made money because people would sign up with you. But they warped that positivity into turning people into sales slaves. When you think about it - how mind controlling was atmosphere? We were taught to enforce atmosphere. To turn people into other sales slaves. Just disgusting. So glad I am out.
Loved your comment about "bottom feeders". How true.
Did you see the listing under "cydcor"?
Know of any other sights that bash on the business?
Best wishes
#14 Employee
AUTHOR: Patricia - Chicago ()
SUBMITTED: Sunday, September 29, 2002
POSTED: Monday, September 30, 2002
Hello Everyone... I was e-mailed this "Rip-Off" report from a friend because that friend "KNEW" My son was involved with DS-MAX, and, I was initially shocked with the bad reports about this company. But after thinking about it I chose to reply because I think the OBJECTIVE observer needs to make an educated decision on what to really believe.
For starters, My son's life has completely changed because of the opportunities this company has given him a chance to take advantage of. He currently is earning over a quarter of a million dollars annually, owes a penny to no one (nothing he owns is financed by a bank), living a life that I only thought possible of celebrities and lottery winners. Sounds to good to be true right...?
I too thought it was a SCAM when he came home after his "Day Of Observation" talking about this company that could make him financially independent, and I begged him to reconsider, but in the end he and DS-MAX were the one with the "I told You So's".
I have been privilaged to watch him open up 10 sales locations this year and give them away to 22 managers here in the midwest. These managers range in the age from 19 to 53 and after seeing what they are earning, would make anyone consider going "Door to Door".
How can anyone argue with results like that! So I have to say that I turned from doubter to believer just because my son was willing to do what many of you, and I were not willing to do. "WORK HARDER and believe harder in possiblities not gaurantees"
Just for the record my daughter also worked with the company and after a year gave it up. But it wasn't the company's fault for holding her back or promising things it couldn't deliver... It was her decision to quit and work for the next 40 years like her mother.
Thank You!
#15 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: abbie - farmingdale ()
SUBMITTED: Monday, September 30, 2002
POSTED: Tuesday, October 01, 2002
You have NO idea what goes on in these offices- the abuse, brainwashing- it's a cult. This is what your son had done to him and this is what he will continue to do to his employees. It's a cycle that's been running its course for 20 years now. Don't be so quick to pat him on the back and crown him the "all- american" posterboy. Sorry to burst your bubble, but he's not really that special. If he's a manager at one of these offices, he's probably just as low as all the other managers that I've met. Also, since you, personally, were never part of the company and have absolutely no clue as to what goes on there, I'd appreciate it if you do not preach to the people who have been there, ok lady???
#16 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: Nathan - tuba city ()
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, October 02, 2002
POSTED: Thursday, October 03, 2002
There are two good things about your response.
1) You are sticking up for your son.
2) Your son is one of the very few who made it. I congratulate you. Enjoy the material benefits of it.
Like Abby said, you don’t know about the bad side. You don’t see the people that put in months and sometimes years of work for nothing. You don’t understand how the psychology of the company will turn you against those you love – how you will come to choose the company over everything.
Don’t say that we aren’t open minded. The problem is – we had open minds and tried the business out. Our curiosity killed us. When you fail at DS-Max, very often it is because you are financially destitute. You are on Commission. You are paying money out to new reps you want to be on your crew, transportation and taxes.
We trusted our selves and the people that run DS-Max to give all we had to try and make it.
We made less money than most people make, accepted a lower standard of living and divested ourselves of things that we didn’t need. We lost cars, apartments, significant others and distanced ourselves from family members. We believed in the hype and got bitten.
Now we warn others!
I pity your daughter. You see, even after I quit I was initially defensive of the company. I thought that their might have been something wrong with me for not being able to make it. I needed to be distanced from DS-Max to finally understand how evil it was. Then I came to my senses and felt like a schmuck for being brainwashed as long as I was.
Your daughter will have little space to vent her anger. With a brother as successful as hers in the company – there will be no arguing. Furthermore, you are won over. DS-Max people specialize in being able to promote bad things in a positive way. They are great at creating small areas where the only belief that is allowed to exist is that of total dedication to DS-Max. They can take any bad situation, change the wording, and make it seem like the best thing that ever happened.
I never said that these guys were not good at motivating and selling people. They started by selling pots and pans out of cars. The goods were more expensive than those sold in stores. The products sucked, they just used enthusiasm.
What kind of an ethical person sells and trains others to sell an inferior product that can be bought for cheaper in stores?
If such people ran a global business – what would it be like?
People get mislead into believing that they will gain financial independence by blindly trusting in the DS-Max marketing system. When you start out you are encouraged to ask lots of questions – that only relate to succeeding through company. They tell you up front in meetings that there are no guarantees, but at the same time giving up on your self and all your dreams that commitment to DS-max is going to accomplish for you – is portrayed as total failure.
Reps that have been around awhile are always told to forget all there problems and just focus on what they have to do to succeed in the business.
They create their mini atmospheres where only more sales and more dedication to the growth of the company are accepted. Any contrary beliefs to this get weeded out or drowned out by the loud music. Ever wonder why the music is always playing and people are always pitching each other in your son’s offices? Ever wonder what happens to people who dissent? Do you think it is mistake why there are so many chants and songs in the meetings?
The workers, on average, make next to nothing. There are always a few high rollers – but that is it. But managers promote that every one is working together to build their business and on their way to financial independence. Impassioned meetings are staged where people give bleeding heart speeches about how they sacrificed to get ahead. Not even 1 percent of applicants succeed to ownership and of them; a lot drop out in the first year. Remember what I said about how these people can take the worst sounding scenarios and make them sound great?
They make people feel that they are part of a great family. A community. For the wayward souls in society it can mean instant friends – as long as you adopt the psychology heart and soul – give up on your relationships with everyone who might see contrary and SELL, SELL, SELL! Other wise you get terminated.
They take people that have never worked commission before, train them, put them out and expect them to sink or swim. Then, if you get half way decent, you have to train everyone to sell like you do. This also implies you parting with either some or all of your hard earned income every day to support a rep that will more than likely quit soon and walk away with your money.
The good things about Ds-max: sales experience and learning how to read and evaluate other people. Nothing else. Because even if you succeed and be a VP – you know that you are supported by 1000’s of people that are brainwashed into believing that they can attain financial independence by going door to door and coercing unsuspecting people to be on their sales crew. You will preach an opportunity that very few will get and many will sacrifice lots for – and end up financially devastated for trying. And the odds are that you will not succeed with DS-Max. And then who wants to hire a solicitor?
#17 Owner of Company
AUTHOR: BOB - HARRISBURG ()
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, October 08, 2002
POSTED: Wednesday, October 09, 2002
As a DS-MAX independant business owner, it is very interesting, and to some extent understandable, to see the various veiwpoints that have been submitted. But, LET'S NOW DEAL WITH FACTS!!
First of all, all these individuals that say they "ripped off by DS-MAX" seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that they never worked for DS-MAX! DS-MAX is only a supplier of merchandise.
Yes, they do supply thousands of offices that are run using their products and system.Yes, they do host regional meetings where all the offices come together as one.
Yes, there is a lot of support that comes from DS-MAX. But, ultimately the offices are completely independently owned and operated. And, like any other business out there, how well they are operated varies tremendously on the individuals who run them.
If run properly by management, with distributors who are willing to work hard, many people can and do get ahead. However,because it is not an easy business, if they are not run properly, yes, there can be many unrewarded sacrifices made. And, the business is not for everyone.
Most offices are very up front with telling someone that it might not be for them. If someone hangs on to the point where they become homeless like some people are saying, that is an extremely bad PERSONAL decision that those people made.
If they weren't delt with in an honest, ehical manner, those complaints need to be directed to the independent office that they worked for. However, I do have to believe that many are using this site to vent frustration because success didn't come as easy as they thought, in a business that wasn't for them (misery does love company).
In closing, I believe that any additional, legitimate negative comments that this site recieves needs to be directed to those individual corporations, and not to lump together thousands of well run offices and bad mouth them under the name of their supplier.
#18 Employee
AUTHOR: Ryan - Georgetown ()
SUBMITTED: Saturday, October 12, 2002
POSTED: Sunday, October 13, 2002
Hello everyone. I am presently an employee of DS Max and I thank god everyday for given me the oppurtunity to find this career. I have been an employee for only 3 months now and am on the verge of being promoted to my own office. But as the title reads this career isn't for everyone.
Only the strong willed and hard working will succeed in this business. If you are niether of these than you will always work for someone else. Every business owner in this worl dill tell you that it takes alot of dedication to own your own business and that is all that DS Max asks. In return they will hand you your own business with very little overhead. Owning your own business is the only "job security" left in this world. As long as someone else is writting your check your job can always be taken.
I have had the oppurtunity to see a 19 year old and a 45 year old be presented with their own office so I know that at the age of 20 I can do it. But for all you out their who will always be a follower and not a leader, good luck. So everyone who reads this knows my name is Ryan Gray and I'm from Cincinnati.
#19 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: abbie - Farmingdale ()
SUBMITTED: Sunday, October 13, 2002
POSTED: Monday, October 14, 2002
Boy they got you hook, line and sinker! You even repeat back EXACTLY what they say and how they say it. Disturbing, don't you think? I bet between now and the end of 2003 you'll be writing again saying how much DS Max sucks. You're still too "new" to understand. Just wait...
#20 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: Nathan - Tuba city ()
SUBMITTED: Sunday, October 13, 2002
POSTED: Monday, October 14, 2002
Great Ryan. You did it. You worked hard. I would never take that away from you.
But YOU are not the only one who pays the price for your success.
How many people on your crew went broke?
How many days of o's did you have that had their day wasted? Maybe you were nice enough to take them to lunch.
When you run your office, how much of this deception will you repeat?
How many people that should never be in your business will stick around becuse they "are making a committment to thier goals and closing the back door behind them." You, directly or indirectly, and your leaders will do this in pursuit of personal financial independance.
I hope that you are one of the owners that will run an office responsibly. I've seen horror stories from owners that have not.
You will advertise for well paying jobs in newspapers. People will be hired by you and find out that they will have to pay out of pocket for crews, roadtrips, transport, lunches for applicants and taxes at the end of the year.
At consumeraffairs.com it says to be wary of any job that asks you to build a sales crew.
Good luck to you.
Let us paraphrase some of emminem's song about cleaning out his closet.
victim of Atmosphere syndrome
my whole career I was made to believe I was smart when I wasn't -
'Till I grew up -
Them I blew up -
It makes you sick to ya stomach -
Doesn't it?
Was that the reason why you made that reponse to me BOB -
To try and justify the way they treated me - BOB -
But guess what -
people are reading this now -
and now you're defending.
I could go on. I'll stop here.
God bless you all - in or out of the business. I'll pray for you just the same.
#21 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: Julie - tampa ()
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, November 06, 2002
POSTED: Thursday, November 07, 2002
I was a part of Ds-max. So many people quit after being treated so bad. I was surprised that more was not done to protest these people.
And all these people seemed so surprized that people want to speak out about them and thier precious opportunity.
Arn't you folks surprized it didn't happen sooner? You knew it could never last. Or did you?
This sure was not a job for high heels! (All that walking)
Yeah I had some good experiences. Yeah I learned. But they wanted me to prioritize thier buisness over my kids. They tried to turn it around and make it seem like I was doing all this work for my kids so that they would have a better future. But after nine months I was exactly like I started - only I had to pay more out for retraining.
end of story.
#22 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: alan - myrtle beach ()
SUBMITTED: Saturday, November 09, 2002
POSTED: Sunday, November 10, 2002
I was in this group for a while. No more. Got real caught up in it. Tried to be the first there every morning and the last to leave. Changed offices. Trained alot of guys. Ran a lot of impacts and meetings. Took my crew out for food. Saw the list of the syptoms of a cult. There you go! Think about this if you are sunk into DS-max.
If you check many of these items, and particularly if you check most of them, you might consider examining the group more closely. Keep in mind that this checklist is meant to stimulate thought, not "diagnose" groups.
1. The group is focused on a living charismatic leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.
2. The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
3. The group is preoccupied with making money.
4. Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
5. Mind-numbing techniques (for example: meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, debilitating work routines) are used to suppress doubts about the group or its leader(s).
6. The group's leadership dictates – sometimes in great detail – how members should think, act, and feel.
7. The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s), and members (for example: the leader is considered the Messiah or an avatar; the group and/or the leader has a special mission to save humanity).
8. The group has a polarized, "we-they" mentality that causes conflict with the wider society.
9. The group's leader is not accountable to any authorities (as are, for example, clergy with mainstream denominations).
10. The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify means (for example: collecting money for bogus charities) that members would have considered unethical before joining.
11. The group's leadership induces guilt feelings in members in order to
control them.
12. Members' subservience to the group causes them to cut ties with
family, friends, and personal pre-group goals and interests.
13. Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group.
14. Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only w
ith other group members.
I believe that the group I was in fits many of the above criteria.
Number 1 can apply to a) emulating the owner and b) adoration of VP's and success stories in atmosphere and gatherings.
#2 ANY way possible they try and recruit. You are praised big time if you personally recruit - but to advertise in papers - you can only tell an applicant half truths to get them to try the business out.
#3 Definately!
#4 Yes! Especially if you influence others to dissent!
#5 Each office has at least 5 chants.
#6 It starts with them preaching about attitude. To make money, you act like your trainer and pitch and get sales. Problem is - if you are modeling someone - you take on the good and bad charicteristics.
#7 Yes! They are rhinos out for financial indepedence doing the things no one wants to do so that they can be filthy rich and have great lives.
#8 Yes! Cows are ofdinary people that get fired and layed off. Rhinos have contempt for them.
#9 True!
#10 Going door to door. Signing up people for things that are not necessarily to their benefit. I could go on...
#11 All the nagging I got if I did not work Saturdays, didn't extra mile, didn't want to train everyday, didn't want to be the last to leave...
#12 Yes. All or nothing. Break ties with all who might want you to quit.
#13 Yes. Work 6 days a week. spend Sunday chatting with your crew to keep them in the business. Arrive early in the morning to open up. Wait forever for atmosphere and meetings to start. Work like a dog door to door 10 hours. Come back, settle the new people up first. Clean and close the office. (Even though you might not have made any money that day). Who has time to cook dinner?
#14 Partial. Your not required to live with each other - though it usually works out that way. You only want to be socializing with positive attitude people. So if someone in the group is negative - you don't want to socialize with that person.
GLAD I AM OUT!
#23 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: marilyn - pittsburg ()
SUBMITTED: Saturday, November 09, 2002
POSTED: Sunday, November 10, 2002
1. Be wary of salespitches. Does manipulation or coercion enter into the work is presented? Do you find an eagerness to sign you up, get a commitment (a sizeable deposit). Without respecting your right to consider the matter at your own discretion?
A Yep. You don’t have to pay no money. But like when it is your first day to try it out – you sign up then and now or not at all.
2. Note the mood of the organization. Are there hordes of people involved? Does the organization respect the rate of each person’s progress or is it a hurry up, results-guaranteed affair? A Depends on the leader. Some will just put you out on the street with no training.
3. What is the group leader like? What are his/her credentials?
4. What are the personal instructors like? What are their credentials?
A
Anyone they can brainwash enough to stay!
5. Speak to others who have already participated. Do they repeat the key phrases of their experience? Watch carefully for this, and note that parroting may be a symptom of a well washed brain. Try to get these people to tell about their individual experiences instead. Are they able to do this thoughtfully? If so, this is a good sign.
A These guys have trainers meetings dedicated to what to say to new people to get them to stick in the business.
6. Does the group require ongoing participation of people who have already “mastered” the work – to the extent of actively recruiting new customers? Do these people provide time – consuming free salesmanship for the organization? If so, ask them why they “choose” to do this. (And watch for repetitive key phrases again or an irrational zeal.)
7. Does the group place heavy emphasis on a specific (rigid higher, or “holier”) authority figure – guru, leader, teacher? Is such emphasis built into the atual work process? Can authority be challenged? Does the group provide ample opportunity to question the methods, techniques, theories of work or does it have an implicit attitude of “we know shat is best for you”? A Authority figures holier than thou… Murray – Larry – Paul…. Someone’s owner. Never question or reinvent their precious system with its 5 & 8.
8. Can you observe any negative techniques, especially in the beginning exercised or instructions? These might include obvious personal insults, put downs, tearing-down of egos – or less obvious of giving orders, bullying, threatening and general reinforcement of diminished sense of self.
A Watch dissenters get fired, belittled and discredited!
9. Does the process involve any severe physical discomfort or pain? Mental or emotional pain? A Yeah. Going door to door to rip people off. Regret for having trained people to waste their time with this business.
10. Is hypnosis part of the process without being fully acknowledged as such?
11. Does any aspect of the work “go against” a personal belief conviction, or religious concept? If so, are your feelings respected?
12. Does the process project an air of mystery, secrecy of things not explained? Are you instructed or encouraged to do any work you do not fully understand (including chanting in another language without adequate translation)?
A You Only get told a bit at a time about the company until they have you hooked.
13. Is there any responsible assessment or screening process of each applicant’s physical, emotional, and mental state before admission? Or is money the only prerequisite to doing the work?
A
None. They only want people that can sell.
14. How do you feel about the people participating? Do they seem intelligent, balanced, thoughtful, aware? Or is there an underlying mood of desperation, or an apparent inability or unwillingness to think things over? A Pity. They are stuck. They are committed. To admit it is all wrong is humbling. It is like a gambler who gets a good machine once in a while. Once in a while these guys have a good day in the field or actually retain a good guy. And then famine forever. It is a disease.
15. Does the group tacitly discourage members from continuing close relationships with nonconverts and encourage members to recruit everyone in their lives?
A You should not associate with anyone that might discourage you from being in the business. Personal recruiting is a big plus!
16. Is any form of intimidation of dominance over others encouraged by the work?
17. Does the group place emphasis on affiliations with celebrities, politicians , industry?
A You should here how they promote that they work with clients like the Yankees, Pizza hut, Papa Johns, Sprint, DTV, AT&T, Stamps.com, Staples and many others.
These questions are used by some people to determine if a group is a cult. The answers are my personal responses with regard to dsmax.
#24 Employee
AUTHOR: Administrator - New York ()
SUBMITTED: Thursday, November 21, 2002
POSTED: Friday, November 22, 2002
I would like to start off by saying that I find it amusing that there are multiple responses by the same people on these pages. I'm sure there are better things to do than to obssess over a lost opportunity.
Now to get to the real issue at hand...
DS MAX is just like any other company, except that it saves people from the jaws of corporate life. It is a FACT that DSMAX does not/will not hire anyone under the age of 18. And last time I checked, that was the age of a legal adult in this country. I'm fairly certain that most people age 18 and older are capable of making their own decisions.
The idea of a "cult" is completely absurd. If a person experiences something he/she does not like about the company, if a person cannot/will not work as hard as is necessary, if a person becomes wary of his/her opportunities, he or she has every right to make a decision to leave. It's just like any other job. If i am scooping ice cream at Dairy Queen and I dont think i can handle the job, ill quit. If im a lawyer on Wall Street and I dont think im being giving a good opportunity, ill quit and move on. if i stock shelves in a grocery store and i feel that my boss isn't telling me the truth about everything, chances are....ill quit and find something else. let's not blow this out of proportion, people. not that i want to make an indefinite statement, but in this case im going to--NOTHING controls you, unless you allow it to....not drugs, alcohol, abuse, or work/a company.
if DS MAX is a cult, then so are most aspects of society. it is just as easy to say that every man and woman who gets up at 8 to shower and leave the house by nine, stops at the same starbuck's every day for the same coffee, walks the same route to work, follows the rules of the company, listens to their boss, kisses his ass for a Christmas bonus, adheres to company policies, and asks a superior for days off is also in a cult. i know for a fact that people who work with DS MAX are free to take days off when needed without "asking" for permission. on the same note, what you put into it is what you get out--just like ANYTHING in life. if you are a lazy person, then you'll get lazy results. if you'd rather work in retail so you can read your favorite novel and talk to friends on the phone while it isn't busy, then by all means--it takes all kinds of folks for the world to work!
i also know that there HAVE, in fact, been many deceptive and wrongful owners in this organization, just like in the corporate world. this becomes a judge of character and the weighing of FACTS, just like in any situation. if you're making 150 bucks a day and are told you can't have it all, then there's something wrong. if you are paying out more than you're earning and people are taking your money, then quitting-- the manager needs to make some adjustments to stop that from happening. it's common sense, folks...let's not forget that most of the embezzlements and scandals take place in corporate life--or in politics!
in closing, i'd like to make it clear that i am not by any means pushing people to join or take part in DS MAX...as earlier stated, I believe that people are capable of making rational, intelligent decisions on their own without the influence of angry, unecessary battering from disgruntled employees. everything in life is an experince. some things turn out unbelievably, others turn out horribly. that's life and some day you'll all have to learn to deal with it. i've known more sucessful people than unsucessful people in this company and i, for one, am more concerned with results than with talk. anyone with a level head and a decent amount of common sense and intelligence can go FAR with this company and you'll never know the possibilites until you give it a shot....it doesn't take a genious to be a "people person," and that's what this company is all about. Good luck everyone with your personal endeavors :) take care.
#25 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: mark - topeka ()
SUBMITTED: Friday, November 22, 2002
POSTED: Saturday, November 23, 2002
Dear Administrator,
Ds-max will hire people under 18 with parental approval.(at least my office did)
How can you say you have known far more successful people than not with DS-max. Correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the main parts of your job as administrator is to answer the phone and get people in the door to meet with the manager for an interview. Therefore you see first hand the amount of turn around that goes on in these places!
You know what the job is and you know that if most people knew what it was they would never come in. You sit on the phone all day and act like you don't have a clue. I know. I used to pretend I was a temp and that the manager knew all the answers and that I was clueless. Anything to get them in the door and into the office for an interview.
And let us not forget how you call them again to reconfirm there appointments.
In addition, since you probably help with payroll or inventory, you know how little the majority of these guys make (or don't).
Just because Corporate America is having some big problems right now - does not mean that you can excuse the injustices of DS-Max!
I do not have the right to steal someones wallet and say it doesn't matter because Ken Lay Swindled loads of people out of their retirement and screwed Californian's energy bills.
You sound like a nice person though. I wish you well in your goals too.
#26 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: Beth - Elmhurst ()
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, December 03, 2002
POSTED: Wednesday, December 04, 2002
It really is amazing. It isn't brainwashing, it is just that people who put alot of time into something, and it doesn't work out( and it rarely does, stop pretending that it does ) you need justification for moving around the country, no benefits, no salary( no matter what your leader says, there is no salary, it is commision, wake up!!! ) I was an owner in the ccard division, so I know all about the promises, the lives that have the chance to be ruined, no matter what bull bleep statistics your owner pulls out in the meeting, corporate america isn't as messed up as the "owners" would like you to believe, it isn't a cult, it is a company that makes a lot of money, make no mistake about it. Just be carefull, when someone promises you the world, look at how your day of observation leader is dressed, if he swears you will make a thousand dollars a week, and he/she looks like they slept in their clothes, and look almost homeless, there is a sign, right? It is a company founded by three hard workers( avie, larry, murray ) no doubt, but it just is what it is, door to door, selling crap, you either do it or go work at AT@T. i wish they would change somethings, but hey it is good for people with a) no hope, B)dreamers, C) easily swayed, one way or another. That's it, getting in an arguement with these "juiceheads" will get you nowhere, just take it as a lesson learned, do what I did, sue the $^&*^$! out of them for money that was owed, and know that sooner or later, they will get theirs.
#27 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: karen - dallas (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Monday, January 27, 2003
POSTED: Tuesday, January 28, 2003
I have bills to pay. I spent a day doing this "day of observation" thing. I did not even know I was going to going door to door. I put off another potential job interview for this.
Why couldn't they just be honest?
#28 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: Chris - Cranston (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Monday, February 03, 2003
POSTED: Monday, February 03, 2003
I've been with the company for four months, man do I feel dumb! On my Day of "O" I had the company breakdown presented to me at lunch time. I was straight out lied to. I was told that I would make $350-$450 the first 2-4 wks, until I was promoted to the next phase of the program; then I could expect to be making $450-$650 a week; once promoted to Asst. Manager $700-$1000 is to be expected; then I was told I would recieve all these different benifits packages and a lucrative salary of $75k/ yr plus overrides.
My first couple of weeks with the company I focused on learning the sales, taking control of the office. I wasn't making the $$$$ promised, only about $40-75 a day, which was livable. I told them I liked to travel, so my second week w/ the company I was sent on a roadtrip, my boss went, and he paid for everything, Like promised in the interview. Once I got back from the trip they promted me. It only took me about 2 1/2 wks. to hit phase II- Leadership.
So I stayed...
This is where it started getting bad. But as things got bad, I utalized my bosses "open door policy", where as he used the 5's & 8's on me. (The 5 & 8's are the "foundation" of the company & the path to sucsess/ management)He said, with a smile, eye contact and excitement, "Don't worry about your bills, I'll show you how to use your security account.." He could overcome all of my negatives, just by rewording them and pre-emptive strike the words about to come out of my mouth.
In leadership I started to feel the pressure for sales hit. You had to fight for your day of "o"(Take someone out on their second interview). The top in sales, best dressed, most excited, etc., those are the people who won the privilage of taking out a person, in order to build your team and get promoted to the next phase of the program. If you are able to "fear of loss" your recruite, and make them fight for the possition all day, you should have them "closed" by lunch. You are suposed to close them 3 or 4 times by the end of the day. If I was able to recruite the person, then I had to pay their training of $50/day out of the $40-$75/ day I was making. (Yes ther were days I invested $10-$20 in "my business" to pay people when I hadn't made enough). If you study the interview process alone, there is something wrong!!! Everyone that goes in for a second interview will be hired, if they show us they want the possition. College Grads & People who have been recently laidoff in corporate America are the easiest to close on the dream. They know nothing about ownership until the 2-3 week w/ the company, that way if the get "negged out" you've got another bullet to close them with, hence able to keep him on your team longer.
My next roadtrip I paid for it all.... and I found out that I had to after I had already left. I paid out of pocket $150... normal companies might not offer millioins of dollars, but they don't ask you to pay $$$ into the company!
The dream is great, but if you don't have money going into the company, you won't make it. (I'm thankful to family for keeping my head afloat). I realized that I didn't want the Management possition once I found out that it relies on reps not being able to afford their bills in persuit of a dream. Ethicly I can not offer people a dream, that is only achieved by a few.....Why is DS-MAX always hiring?
I relocated states for this job, & almost broke off an engagement. (I had been ask by a few people in the office if I was even sure I wanted to get married, what ever that meant.) Thank You everybody for sharing your stories, or I would still be enslaved to DS-MAX. Hopefully my story will reach one of you and make a difference in your lives. Good Luck!
#29 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: Kate - Providence (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Monday, February 03, 2003
POSTED: Monday, February 03, 2003
Wow, I was the one that intially put up this report, and i am Thrilled that it was useful to everyone that has seen it.
Streamline Marketing/MI Associates in East Providence Rhode Island was a very bad start to my life after college. But it did teach me lifes lessons.. I met some great people there (all who have left of course), and realized that the Door to Door Ripping off business was certainly not for me.
After going on a roadtrip to baltimore, spending 100 bucks for hotel and travel expenses, and making 35 of it back (p.s. no one i was with made over 50 dollars that week.. so it was just me that couldn't "handle the business".. I came home to see my electricity had been shut off. Thanks DS MAX!
To my knowledge, a year later, one of the people has "made it" to ownership. Strangely, he was the dimmest bulb in the bunch when i was there, and also the biggest bum kisser..
Our boss kept telling us he needed to promote more people so that he could make money and make VP.
the day i threw away my rhino pin was the best day of my life. i encourage you that work there, or if you know anyone that works there to do the same.. I think there should be some sort of survivor kamps for this!
#30 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: Todd - Pomona (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
POSTED: Thursday, March 13, 2003
Your report changed my life!
#31 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: Marie - Providence (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, March 29, 2003
POSTED: Saturday, March 29, 2003
I was an "independent distributor" for this company for quite a while, and let me tell you, it was an eye opener. After a business co-op fell through and I was left jobless, I spent weeks looking for a way to make money. I had a lot of up front expenses, since I was still in school.
When I went on my day of "O", i was told that the average person makes $100 a day, which sounded great. . .I was used to half that amount with my old part time job. So I gave the centuries old "door-to-door salesman" a go. I mean, smile, eye contact. . .how hard could it be?
Pretty hard, when you're placed in some of the worst parts of town until after dark, where half of the people you meet don't speak English and, after over 8 hours of seeing everyone, quite a few good (and pretty bad) people know who you are, why you're there, and the fact that you have money on you. Oh, but that's the tip of the iceberg. . .
I was in the middle of some quite depressing things in life, and all my "friends" at work, leaders and distributors, who were supposed to be there "24/7", no matter the time, totally blew me off. They knew how to teach about the business, I'll give them that, but if I asked them a deeper question, they would stare at me blankly. They honestly resembled a computer monitor--when you pull the plug on the CPU. I began to see that these poor kids (nobody was under 30 but the manager) were robots.
While I was there, I began to see the two faces of leaders. Some of them had even more sides. How impressive! Not all of them were like that. In fact, some leaders were excellent, and will make great managers. Only, they weren't the most powerful people there. And anyone who claims there is no one-upmanship there is a bold faced liar--I have seen it myself.
Eventually, the only people I felt remotely linked to had quit. I followed shortly after. I couldn't take it. I admit it. I entered that business because I wanted to be a solid professional. Instead, I was left feeling like a yuppie prostitute. And you know what? I was tricked out.
I, like many others, went flat broke. My whole office did. But unlike many others, I don't blame DS Max. I could have quit early on and gotten another job. My financial situation has improved greatly since I quit and I'm doing quite well for myself.
However, I do blame the office for the charade. They promise financial success, and you'll get it--if and only if you become a manager. But it's financial success at the cost of your sanity. It's financial success at the cost of your credibility to the public. (They know about the whole pretty girl/boy at the door routine, and many spoke out about it to me while I was on the field.) And it's success at the cost of your friendships and family life. Those friends that were "neg-ging me out" were speaking the truth. I'm glad I saw it before my "leaders" took me under.
#32 Employee
AUTHOR: NICK - REDLANDS (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, April 23, 2003
POSTED: Wednesday, April 23, 2003
Juice to all the "Independent Distributors." I have worked with DS-Max for a little over a month now and I am already relocating. for all those people who dont think that this is a "Real Opportunity" they are wrong. so like I said short term hard work, long term lazy. JUICE >>!
#33 Employee
AUTHOR: TIM - HALIFAX (United Kingdom)
SUBMITTED: Monday, June 02, 2003
POSTED: Monday, June 02, 2003
I am just starting with DS-MAX or Cobra Group (IPG) As its called in the U.K.
I have read loads about this company and am not sure about it.
So far the company (from what ive seen) sounds good, yes there is loud music and yes you do watch on the observation day but so far that is all.
I saw the ad for 'EXCELLENT OPPORTUNITIES' in the paper and the name 'Rachel Shaw' to be contacted who didnt even exist in the comapany.
I just want some honest answers before i get too far into the company to regret it.
#34 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: Todd - Pomona (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, June 03, 2003
POSTED: Tuesday, June 03, 2003
False names are given because they put adds in different mediums. By saying the name you help them figure out which add is working.
Read more ripoffreports. Look for dsmaxtheaftermath in the msn user chat groups.
I reccomend staying away with a 10 foot pole.
Good luck!
#35 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: Ben - Hamilton (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, June 03, 2003
POSTED: Tuesday, June 03, 2003
I'm sick and tired of all your crap from both sides. DS-Max isn't a perfect company, hell, maybe not even a good company, but its not as bad as a lot of you make it sound. I used to work for the DS-max clearance office in hamilton, on.
For all you negative people:
1. It's commissioned, and you find that out on your first or second day, you make the decision. No one told you to stay.
2. It's not a cult. Just because they tell you to work long hours and do the same things, its considered a cult? So then are all labour unions for assembly workers cults? NO!
3. I can't believe how people can bash a company for taking someone's family's out encouraging them to stay with the company. That's considered a general business practice, it's called recruiting and the entire corporate world does it.
4. It's just like any other business where chances of success are limited.
And now for all you super-positive owners/employees:
1. You shouldn't be bashing the corporate world. I currently have a job in sales and management that pays me a salary of $800/wk + 30 % commission. You should encourage people to find what's best for them and that DS-MAX ISN'T a rare opportunity, it exists everywhere.
2. The business is full of corrupt people and I don't blame the business for this, at least not entirely. It's a by-product of greed and money. So you know what? HAVE A SCREENING PROCESS!!!
3. DS-MAX offices do hire below the age of 18 as long as it is with parental consent, so don't hide behind that.
4. And some offices make you work holidays and I know of an office that really wants you to work on Sunday even though it is unpaid.
THERE. BOTH SIDES OF THE ARGUMENT. SO DON'T BASH ON ANYONE WHO HAS A GENUINE OPPORTUNIY AND DON'T BASH ON ANYONE WHO COULDN'T MAKE IT.
I bet if some of you worked for Microsoft and were paid $100,000 US + $20000 for every program you made, but you didn't make any programs, you'd call it a scam too. It's called the real-world.
#36 Employee
AUTHOR: Megan - Orlando (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, June 04, 2003
POSTED: Wednesday, June 04, 2003
I have just recently started with DS Max. I believe anyone who has been "negged" out by the cult like ways just isn't willing to expand their horizons. Some actually just beleive that they are just too good for the opportunity. Hell im willing to try anything at least once. Say Juice and give high fives...I look forward to going to work everyday. I have actually seen several promotions within the company , so yes, i believe in the advancement. Who are you to say that its a horrible company to work for, Yes, everyone has a right to their oppionion, but do not put others down who actually have the balls to have goals and believe in themselves. I have grown in so many ways since i started, and am headed straight for the top. So all I am saying is if its not for you good walk out the door, but dont "knock" us for having goals and beleiving.
#37 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: Bernie - Toronto (Canada)
SUBMITTED: Thursday, June 05, 2003
POSTED: Thursday, June 05, 2003
Megan, I worked for DS-Max for one summer and its definitely not for everyone. I agree that if a company doesn't suit you, then leave by all means.
This thread just seems like bitter people who don't know how to manage money.
You see on the first day what you're getting yourself into. It's your choice from then on.
I wish people could just accept what happened and move on and find another job.
#38 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: Danielle - Providence (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Thursday, June 05, 2003
POSTED: Thursday, June 05, 2003
Notice most of the people that are 'pro' this company have 'just started the business'
take it from survivors, even those who "make It" end up it debt.
#39 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: Bernie - Toronto (Canada)
SUBMITTED: Friday, June 06, 2003
POSTED: Friday, June 06, 2003
I am an ex-employee and I did not approve of all their practices. My main problem with your comment is that a lot of people are really bad at managing money.
I remember reading a report or comment where one person didn't know the difference between reimbursement and write-off. That's not the company's fault.
I made money, made $7000 over 4 months, which is decent. Change that, I saved $7000, but if I probably made around $10 000 in 4 months. Yeah, I probably spent close to $1000 in gas and food, but that works out to 9000.
I'm not going to give you ds-max crap and say that if you didn't make you didn't work hard enough or blah blah.
The reason some people can't make money is because they are horrible at managing it. I know some people in our office who rang the gong almost every day, but always spent $80-90 a night partying.
#40 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: Danielle - Providence (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, June 07, 2003
POSTED: Saturday, June 07, 2003
i hope you aren't implying that i partyed every nite, wasting my money away. Since in our office we worked till about 11 pm and had to be there at 7:15 am the next day. and in our office, we were lucky if one person rang the bell a day... (then that person always had to pay off their team, since no one else was making any money)
also, are u talking canadian dollars or us?
#41 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: Bernie - Toronto (Canada)
SUBMITTED: Sunday, June 08, 2003
POSTED: Sunday, June 08, 2003
As Canadian goods are relatively cheaper than the majority of American products (that's why we export to you so much), it is only the relative price of goods to income that matters, not the nominal price.
I am not implying that you or anyone in particular partied a lot. However, from what I've read there are a few people who thought "write-off" was the same as "reimbursement". Obviously a write-off reduces the amount of tax you have to pay, while a reimbursement is neither considered deductible or taxable. However an allowance is taxable depending on what it is.
What I am trying to say is that on the second or third day, you knew you would be an independant contractor/distributor and that means money management is left up to yourself. If you were spending $20 or $30 on gas a day and making only $40-60 profit, you should be able to calculate yoru daily profit and get out of the company.
I am not trying to defend the company or anything, but what I'm trying to say is that money management is a way of life. I truly feel sorry for the people who lost a lot of money, but you cannot put 100 % blame on DS-Max. Maybe more like 50-50.
#42 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: Danielle - Providence (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Monday, June 09, 2003
POSTED: Monday, June 09, 2003
I had graduated from school with a finance degree, and money management was my speciality, out of all of the people there, i was the only that could pay my rent on time.
Stating that amount is in canadian dollars is fairly important, since most people that visit this site are probably from the US, and seeing another inflated number is probably not beneficial.
#43 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: Bernie - Toronto (Canada)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, June 10, 2003
POSTED: Tuesday, June 10, 2003
Okay, that's good that you have a degree in finance.
However, being in Can $ and with products relatively cheaper than the US, this means that all that matters is relative wages to relative prices.
Ex. US: $8/hr Clock costs $8
Can $10/hr Clock costs $9
Therefore the goods in Canada are relative cheaper as I still have $1 remaining to spend whereas in the US I have nothing left.
Just because you have a degree in finance doesn't mean you can manage money properly. You can have all the theory you want, but its a matter of applying it. I'm not taking any shots at you, but its other people that end up in debt as non-owners that are annoying.
If you are somehow taking money out of your own commission to get the bell, or whatever, that's your own fault. No one told you to do that. If you aren't able to pay your rent for a month, get out of the company and work somewhere else. If you are so truly influenced by a company, then you are weak minded. I don't mean this in the stupid DS-Max way, but I mean it as you are easily swayed and persuaded. If you are so easily swayed by a company in pursuit of an opportunity of making money in a short period of time, then you are committing two of the deadly sins, GREED and PRIDE. The only reason I worked for the company is for tuition.
#44 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: James - Pittsburgh (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Friday, June 20, 2003
POSTED: Friday, June 20, 2003
Not always true...
Bernie, I can tell you from experience that it doesn't always have to do with managing money.
I didn't get my first paycheck until after four weeks. I was only given an inflated estimate of what I should have expected to make. My owner never gave me a straight-forward answer on my commission per-application. (I was in credit cards). I operated on the same budget that I had before I got the job which was meager, considering I was a student (except all the fuel and food expenses). In the end I averaged $240 a week. I rang bells and gongs quite frequently too. I just didn't get paid what I was told I would - especially for 6 day work weeks.
So you can see where my disdain for the company comes from. I was lucky enough to spot the BS and leave. Others were not. They stayed despite the fact that they had been lied to. They pushed on for the opportunity. The ones who had been there the longest lived together like a pack of rats. There were five of them in a one-bedroom apt.
Its all really creepy to me: The brainwashed responses, the slimeball hiring practices, the expectation of wealth, the we-they mentality, and the forged front of having wealth displayed by all the DS-Max owners/managers is really queer.
So I post here to warn others. I am not a whiney "negbag". I do have a spine though. If someone punches me, I punch them back twice as hard. DS-Max drones are taught not to question anything, or step out of line. I feel sorry for them. That is why they get stuck living in illegal arrangements, because they are too scared to stand up for themselves.
#45 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: John - Phoenix (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, July 23, 2003
POSTED: Wednesday, July 23, 2003
Thank You for not letting me waste anouther day
I had my 8 hour second interview today. You know the phone call at 5 O-clock praising you for making the cut. I started thinking how everybody at the office seemed programed in some way, said the same things, for example: I must of heard about how I will be gone all day but don't worry about lunch "they will pick up the bill" at least 4 times, as if to lure me in. I also noticed the secretary was scheduling first interviews every fifteen minutes for the next month or so. How many people do they need to work for them? There was something there that did not seem right. This concerned me, so I did a little research. Needless to say I did not make it to my second interview. How many poor saps fall into this trap, only to have thier dreams shattered. What a mess!!!
#46 Employee
AUTHOR: Aaron - Pittsburgh (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Thursday, July 24, 2003
POSTED: Thursday, July 24, 2003
For the past few days I've been considering leaving the company, and reading all these reports just now has made me realize what's really going on.
I don't understand how some people actually defend DS-Max?!? First of all, this company sells the WORST products I've ever seen!! Yet all the employees talk them up like they're golden. Second, all the distributors blindly force consumers into buying these products when they don't even have a use for them. And lastly, you spend more money than you make to work for this company. When I moved back home from Long Island, NY I had around 3,000 dollars in the bank. I started at DS-Max the same week I moved home, and now (2 months later) I have a considerably smaller amount of money in the bank than I did before! And this ISN'T because I don't know how to manage money because all I've been doing is working and sleeping. Since I've returned home all I've spent money on is food, gas, car insurance, and some dress clothes. I think that explains it.
I've put everything I physically and mentally could into this job to try and succeed at something. After putting all my determination into this job I have finally realized this cult had me brainwashed.
If any of you haven't noticed yet, the only people supporting DS-Max in this thread are owners or higher...'nuff said.
By the way, I'm one of the smart ones, I'm quitting tomorrow.
#47 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: Todd - Pomona (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Friday, July 25, 2003
POSTED: Saturday, July 26, 2003
It is for people like you that I write Aaron. I hope that you learn from your experience and that you are able to get a better position ASAP. The grip that gets put on you is hard to shake off. The longer you are in the harder it is to see reality. Congratulations and being open to it.
#48 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: John - Agawam (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Thursday, October 02, 2003
POSTED: Thursday, October 02, 2003
DS MAX is an interesting concept. Is it all it's purported to be during the interview process? Probably not to most people, but if you put the hours in the experience can be invaluable.
Is it easy to build a team? No, most people don't realize how lazy they actually are. I didn't have the patience to deal with their laziness.
Is it instant gratification? No,you work your butt off for little pay, at first. It can get better rapidly.
Is all the jumping around, chanting, and "Juice: talk stupid? Stupid no, embarassing sometimes, but it can also be fun sometimes.
Why didn't you stay? It was too hard to be away from home. If I had I would own a huge company now, but I missed my children and returned East.
I was 40 and out of work, my marriage had dissolved. I had been an air-traffic controller until I was injured. I have a degree from Syracuse in Physics. I was naval officer on nuclear subs.
I joined up with the communictions division in Milwaukee. I didn't make $40-$75 per day. I made $200 a day and more. We were doing At&T Local and NICOR (Northern Illinois Gas Co.) conversions. The people that put the hours in can make good money.
I now make about $170,000 a year in sales and I wouldn't have learned how to without DS MAX. In fact if any of you managers in the New England Area /North East Coast want to get involved in a Sure Fire Money maker, contact me.
Remeber the hardest door to open is the car door. This is not for everyone. A bad manager can ruin your experience, but don't get discouraged, with the new restrictions on telemarketing, door to dor sales will come back hugely.
#49 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: Gianna - Chicago (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Friday, October 03, 2003
POSTED: Friday, October 03, 2003
Now that's something for DS-MAX/Granton to worry about in the near future. Since the federal law now regulates the telemarketers maybe we’ll now see a massive increase in door-to-door solicitations. Coincidentally, it's possible that Congress will then be forced to regulate the entire industry of residential/commercial soliciting as well. OH my, what will these low-life companies do??? Without question, this is a potential threat to all the companies of DS-MAX and alike. Wouldn't that be an unfortunate tragedy for all the scum bag owners along with other affiliates who capitalize off this scheme; with an exception to the employees (or should I say "independent distributors"). Until that day arrives, DS-MAX will continue its enslavement and manipulative tactics.
#50 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: Todd - Pomona (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Friday, October 03, 2003
POSTED: Saturday, October 04, 2003
Thank you John for your fascinating insight on what all the offices must be saying now due to the do not call list. What a wonderful way to use current events to further instil into the minds of the ill fated committed masses of ds-max reps that your mlm pyramid sales cult is the wave of the future.
You have called some of here lazy bums.
However, I know that profiting from your business is just a peg or two on the moral correctness scale of profiting from illegal narcotics! You misleed people into going on a day of obsveration in your business from day one! You force people into paying your new employees out of their pockets and not yours. You misleed the masses into believing that they two can get financially independant after giving it their all.
What do say to your two year guys that have retrained your reps for you every week of the year and then still are not promoted and find out that the business was for nothing and that guys with little or no experience are making way more money than they are?
#51 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: James - Long Island (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Monday, October 06, 2003
POSTED: Monday, October 06, 2003
By chance, I read the article in the N.Y. Post regading the law suit against DS Max and Darren Matloff. I met this guy when I graduated college and worked at DS Max (WWI at the time). They hosted a rally at the Nassau Coliseum where they "rallied the troops" and gave all the managers Piaget watches for their success...If you're not familiar with Piaget, they go for $20k to $100k. I lasted there for about 2 months before Darren asked me to leave for "poisoning" the minds of new recruits by telling them I made an average of $50 bucks a week before expenses. Well since then, I've moved onto a career in finance and lets say that although some say Wall Street has been tarnished in recent years, at least you can make an honest living with real gold at the end of the road, unlike the Matloff scam. I must say they were convincing, but I can assure you that like hanging out with the wrong crowd, this company will ruin your mind and waste your time. Take if from me, a man lucky to get out sooner rather than later. Darren, good luck with your law suit.....you're gonna need it.
#52 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: James - Woodbury (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, October 11, 2003
POSTED: Saturday, October 11, 2003
Bernie...I have this strange feeling you're the guy who was behind WWI. I met you in N.Y. in 1991 at the rally. Why do I think it's you....I know very few Bernies, no Bernies from Canada, and no one in their right mind that would defend this company. You're a smart guy I'll admit. Made a ton of cash in a low quality business....but who cares right? Today we have high tech scams like Enron where they trade energy and booked phony profits. Lucky for you you're not in America and not working for a public company. I remember when I landed a job on Wall Street, the first thing I tried to do was call Mr. Tannenbaum (A senior Associate) to try and float the company. When he realised you had to open the books to become public...he respectfully declined. Is this you Bernie or just a histerical coincidence?
#53 Consumer Suggestion
AUTHOR: Bernie - Toronto (Canada)
SUBMITTED: Sunday, October 12, 2003
POSTED: Sunday, October 12, 2003
Let me clear this, I don't defend DS-Max and some offices are unethical. All I do is point out the facts and my office just happened to be run somewhat, or at least not as unethical as other office and some of the people working for DS-Max obviously are bitter for no reason or at least not legitimately. But they're are also people with legitimate complaints which I respect. It just annoys me how there are some people in the world who were making money in the company but complain because they do not know how to manage money. They're are some lawyers who make a lot of money, but live in a crappy apartment. Why? Because every paycheque they get, they spend 75 % of it. And I also have a bias against people who have worked for DS-Max because a lot of people I worked with were drug addicts or just total retards so sometimes its hard to accept complaints from those sorts of people.
So you met me in 1991? Wow. I was 13 then. And by the way I do work for a public company in Canada.
And actually Enron's main problem wasn't trading energy, it was rather setting up subsidiaries and third party entities so that the losses were reported on those entities, yet the profit was reported on Enron's books.
#54 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: Amanda - Tampa, (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, December 09, 2003
POSTED: Tuesday, December 09, 2003
Folks, all the things that the ex employees have said about this hoax is true. I worked for the company for about 4 months about two years ago and ended up getting kicked out of my apartment because I couldn't afford to make rent. I was lucky if I made $50 a day.
When I went to my boss and team leader about the fact that I needed to make more money or I had to leave, they gave me the "indifferent" attitude and basically said they could care less about their employees.
While I learned that corporate america is not for me, I did learn some interesting things while working there: BE CAREFUL ON WHO YOU TRUST, especially when they claim to have the same beliefs as you and they lie and cheat you out of what is rightfully yours, and DON'T WORK FOR A COMPANY THAT DOESN'T TREAT YOU FAIRLY!!!!
This is a company that will just rip you off. Keep that in mind if you are thinking about accepting their offer.
#55 Consumer Suggestion
AUTHOR: Aaron - Fairfax (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, January 14, 2004
POSTED: Thursday, January 15, 2004
I was in college and worked for a door to door sales company called south west and after i saw a mixed bag of results from that experience - long summer days spent working 11 hours a day, some days making $800 and some making $0.
When i applied to this company, i went for a day of honest observation and my trainer was a very courteous and nice person with plenty of energy and ambition. She made about $200 in commissions that day and I saw that she worked hard and really earned her money.
I also noticed that her sales area was way outside of the normal area and that her day of door to door business sales was a bit brutal. Making 50 office calls and closing only a few deals. It's a rough job for anyone and i quickly decided it wasn't for me but i needed to stay positive because i committed myself for the entire day.
The amount of pressure i felt to join was not immense because i built a wall of energy around myself during the day that said 'even though i'm jobless, i will not take a job i'm not comfortable with'. so when offered the job, i decided that i was not going to take it and i did so honestly with the best intentions.
I ws immediatly dropped off and i spent my evening driving home thanking God that i listened to my intuition.
The feelings of acceptance and a need to belong are inherently very powerful motivators in any persons mind. It is important for all college graduates, middle managers, etc... to take life at it's pace and really dig into opportunities before taking a challenge head on.
There is no shame in declining a job and do not fall for the concord fallacy that implies you continue feeding a negative situation.
If you commit to do a job, do it right and don't waste peoples time. This company is built on the ideals of sales excellence and thus it all comes down to the methods of management that people actively pursue. Not every situation in life will be great. Not everyone will be the CEO by the time they are 25. Here are a couple more pointers i learned and maybe this will help those that are currently there and those leaving learn.
-- people brag, rich people gloat and act like their rich problems are so glamerous (i.e... what kind of car should i get).
-- when being recruited to get a job, negative things are always hidden or 'swept' under ther rug. be aware of this and accept that no job is perfect
-- sales is grueling, no matter what kind. know yourself before getting into the field and wasting your managers day. know what kind of attitude you have as a person and don't set your expectations too high or unreasonable.
-- there is no such thing as slavery anymore and donald trump sells real estate at 1000% above market value because people buy. If you buy into the job that is your responsiblity.
-- if you know what your are going to be paid before you sign on the bottom line you shouldn't report a fraud or scam about a company.
--i think the way that Cydcor does marketing and sales is efficient for the company. Whether it panders to an ideal communistic way of life is a whole other issue. Sales is capitalism and capitalism is survival of the fittest.
--loyalty is a big factor in life so be loyal to the people that treat you like gold and remember that every business has problems.
--you can either add more to the problem or be a solution. If you don't like your situation, change it.
One thing about our generation (me being 25) is that we want a million dollars tomorrow. This is very rare and we need to take the advice of our grandparents and work smarter and harder not just one of the two. I put in a lot of time at my job and sometimes it sucks but at least i'm working and making money and enjoying the people that i work with.
Perception is a big factor in success and not blaming other people for your situation will take you to the highest levels of success. Believe in your ability to make the right decision and don't wallow in your own self doubt. Don't believe what others say good or bad, make your own decisions. stick to your guns and don't let anyone make you feel less than 100% awsome.
#56 Consumer Suggestion
AUTHOR: Suck My - Pensacola (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, June 30, 2004
POSTED: Friday, July 02, 2004
What a pitty. You guys are just pisses beacuse you cant sell 3 to 10 dollar items. Door to Door sales are where its at. Without sales this world not exist. Just shut your f*in dicksukas, and quit patronizing. Yall are a bunch of foot draging lazy bones that dont have confidence in yourself, so there for youll never be nothing more than a homeowner with a yard to mow on the day that your off your 9 dollar an hour job.
these are the facts.
this shit sells it self
we turn the average joe into a selling machine
the process is proven
just like the law of averages
1 out of 10 will be an owner
so f* off
HEY GUYS
#57 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: Robert - Mobile (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Friday, July 02, 2004
POSTED: Friday, July 02, 2004
Well I wont say much because frankly i think it has all been said. I wo\ill report that it is quite humorous that i got on the computer late tonight to find out how ds max is doing . I left the company in sep 02 after our bahamas vacation.
I started at 18 with a pimp owner, and he let me do all the sales i wanted, but no training. This increased exponentially once i started toppiing the bulletin every week. Anyway i was in the business for 5 years, and have the tatoos and worn out car to prove it, and had reached a level of success that i had never seen in my own young lifetime. Thats when you start noticing just how little the owner really makes.....when you are the owner. The main problem with the business is having to rely SOLELY on others to build your success, You really have to brainwash people to get them to have a positive attitude (that is sad indeed) these days. Anyway i realized after an illness in my family that there are things much more important than money and power.....and i had been ignoring them for five years.
I can say now that i am between jobs..(just over broke) and am pretty broke. LOL...Five years of business ownership just doesnt stack up on a resume against degrees... thats the truth. But i can honestly say that the business years and these dont compare. I wi\ould be happy to die poor and surrounded by people who love me, than rich and alone , waiting for death.
p.s.
and yes i always use my 5, 8, and 4 to this day.
#58 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: Michelle - Providence (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, August 03, 2004
POSTED: Wednesday, August 04, 2004
I worked for Stream-Line Marketing, and I know first hand of how bad that office is. Not all offices run like the one in Providence, there are some good ones and I still like D.S. Max for what it stood for, but while theres offices like the one in Providence I could never work for D.S. Max.
For one thing he had one of the distributors/leaders audio-taped conversations while we are out in the field and then the owner used tape against us. That office is racist, there were plenty of times I heard the "N" word and other racial slurs said around that office. Being a black woman that offended me but they don't care. If you are not part of the in crowd who cares. Secret meetings going about.
Once in the field I was set up at a market and a man flashed me his penis and wanted me to touch it. When I went back to the office to tell them about it they did not care all they wanted to know if I rang the bell, and then they sent me back the next day. Other leaders are encourage to build relationships with people on other leaders crew behind that leaders back. I, who was building my team in one division, was drafted into another division to help this girl push for management.
She was good in the field, but bad at building teams. She had two distributors on her team when she started to push, everyone else was also drafted to help her. But I was the only one to had leaders on my crew, which was in the other division than the one she was pushing. And Finally, because I did not have a car I had to take public transportation to my territorties with my merch.
Again not all D.S. Max offices are like the one in Providence. I like D.S. Max and what it is supposed to stand for. I have worked in some great offices and learned alot from D.S. Max that I have taken with me to Succeed in the business that I am in, but there are some bad and racist offices like the one in Providence that I have to warn against.
#59 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: Nicole - Anon (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, October 12, 2004
POSTED: Tuesday, October 12, 2004
I worked for DS Max for two and a half years. I started off as a distributer and left as an owner. I thought it was great. i was making great money, I was ripping people off, and so on. That is, until I found out some pretty shading dealings going on with the higher ups. Due to a current lawsuit being filed, I cannot disclose what it is or any personal information about myselft. Here's what I can tell you
1. DS Max is a good company for cold, heartless individuals with no want or need of GOOD money. (As an owner I made roughly 50,000$ a year, the most in my region - in my current job as a market research analyst my starting pay was just under 107,000$ a year) You don't make that kind of money there - no matter what they say
2. I hope, if you do go to work for them - you have no family or friends. Imagine you have to be there by 8am. You leave around 8pm. Not much time to spend with family and that doesn't even include night merching - required if you want to break even and sometimes even then you can't!
3.Again the pay is crap for distributers and team leaders. The average distributer in my company took home about 60 a day. (5$ an hour - not even min. wage)
4. DS max is being investigated in some areas as a possible cult. YES It's true! Don't let others on this site tell you it's not. We teach you those chants to mess with your mind - JUST LIKE A CULT!
5. It's emotionally abusive. Everyone has a bad day once in awhile. Imagine not being able to express that with the people you practically live with!
6. Speaking of living with people - ever hear of a merch house? It's where most of the distributers live because they can't afford to live on their own. Also I have seen many team leaders, assitant managers, managers, and even an owner have to move in there! WHAT HAPPENED TO BEING FINANCIALLY DEPENDANT?
finally, it's just not worth it. Don't say I couldn't hack it, because I did. I probably can sell better than just about anyone. I wanted it too. Sales/marketing is the right job for me (refer to my current job as a head MRA) so that's not the reason either. Those of you justifying what you do by saying you do it for your family. Your children/spouse whatever, would much rather have you there (home) and working at MCDonalds than have you gone half the day making about the same.
well, that's my two cents. Wish me luck with the lawsuit. I'll let you guys know the details ASAP.
By the way - if you are under 18 and worked for this company - you can sue for wages you didn't recieve - the contract you signed making you an independant distributer is NOT VALID if you were not 18. I did it in my first lawsuit and one 1 year worth of pay 12 hours a day 6 days a week. Even min. wage was looking good then! People under 18 have to be paid at least min. wage (federal is 5.15$/hr , i believe)for all hours worked, they can not be commision. FED LAW SAYS SO!
#60 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: Eoin - Dublin (Ireland)
SUBMITTED: Sunday, November 07, 2004
POSTED: Sunday, November 07, 2004
Hi guys,
my name is Eoin O sullivan and i worked for ds-max in Dublin through one of there branches.When i look back at it it was the biggest waste of time ever. they try to convince you of how you are going to own your own office. you go through long hours and make very little money.you cost them nothing they show no commitment to you and they try to give you the impression at the interview that its a really big job but they dont tell you what u will be doing.They fear of loss you and make you believe so much in the system and getting through the steps. what i call DS-Maxified. complete rubbish you sell crap out of a bag.its not a career move cos as far as im concerned the owners avoid tax cos there always changing owners and names of the different branches. Caroline Mc Cauley was the owner of my office she suddenly left though strangley enough and good old jamie from portsmouth came in to the dublin office. its complete and otter crap 6.30am till 7.30 pm and your lucky very lucky if u have 100€ in your pocket at the end of the day after all ur travel expenses but of course ur an independant dealer.look at the bigger picture ur not going to make a career from selling stupid dolls out of a bag or get any excitment out of hitting the bell or gong which u will find that u will put ur own money into just to achieve hitting a bell because ur so far in to believing ur getting an office.So eoin osullivan advices dont work for ds-max unless ur prepared to do it for a learning experience of sales but dont think ur going to make much money.juice juice my ass Jamie from portsmouth in the Dublin office Id love to come into the atmosphere room and tell ur field what there really up too.have it!!!!!!!!!!!
#61 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: Michael - Tiffin (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Friday, December 10, 2004
POSTED: Saturday, December 11, 2004
I had the pleasure at one point to work for a snake in chicago and Dallas named Joe Richel. He Opened a new office in Dallas TX. The land of oil and money. Well, money is exactly what we didn't have. Within, one month of opening, his business practices were so poor that V.P's in the company had to flip his bills. He was in serious financal debt, with no way out.
We went down to TX with 6 people looking for an opportunity that was not there. Joe only had one goal in mind, getting his right hand man Jeremy Schrinner promoted. While he did everything possible to give Jeremy every advantage, he quickly lost control of his office.
He pushed his administrator to have a near breakdown, while not paying her for a few weeks. He was broke, and still was taking money from his own company. He was taking money from the days settle ups and placing reciets in the bag instead. These reciets were not for business purposes. They were lunches bought by his admin. Supplies bought by his admin. and other false business expenses.
Joe and Jeremy were evicted from their apartment, and lost all credibility they may have had left.
If you see these guys, or hear their names run the other way, because they will try to bring you down with them!
#62 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: Rob - Independence (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, December 11, 2004
POSTED: Saturday, December 11, 2004
I really dont have much else to say that my fellow ex- employess havent already told you, but I did feel compelled to resopnd. DS-Max, and all of its various clones (it uses these clones to avoid affiliation and prosecution many times) is a horrible company that makes money for a sparce few of of the backs of its distributors. Ever wonder why nearly office runs employment adds on a nearly constant basis? The answer is simple: they rely on a constant fresh crop of idiots to continue to line their pockets. Sooner or later nearly everyone gets wise to the scheme and quits. Everyone has their breaking point. For me it was a few weeks, for others its a few min, and for still others it can take years.
The ratio of those that anter DS-Max to those that actually achieve this grand "opportunity" has to be in the negiborhood of one out of 1000. However, there will always be that select group of morons out there that will continue to defend DS-max because they are in the buisness and misery definatley loves company.
Those of you that were taken by DS-max, I urge you to contact me and be added to the class action lawsuit.
The one we are currently working with has just shy of 3000 claimants. Ever if our financial award ends up being small, the sense of satisfaction for striking back at the same bastards that have lied and cheated so so many of my fellow recent college grads would be worth the hassle.
Good luck to all of you and please whatever any of you do: DO NOT GO ON ONE OF THEIR INTERVIEWS! Best of luck to all!
#63 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: Rob - Independence (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, December 11, 2004
POSTED: Saturday, December 11, 2004
Hello again,
I am proud to report that I recently learned of a website(ds max the aftermath) that has lead me to so many other individuals who have been screwed by this company. I have already been able to grant another 216 referals to the current class action lawsuit against these idiots. Those of you that have not had the opportunity, please visit :groups.msn.com/DSMAXTheAftermath
There, you will find many people that have suffered the fate of the ds max bullshit, and many far worse horror stories. We, as americans, cannot sit by and let these morons operate with impunity. Its simply not an option. We have a responsibility to save college educated people from goiing through the same ordeal. did u go to college for four years to do that??? I didnt. nuff said!
#64 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: James - New York (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, December 11, 2004
POSTED: Saturday, December 11, 2004
After reading rip-off rebuttals for 10 years on the company I worked for 13 years ago out of college for 3 months, I'm utterly shocked that the place is still around. I've learned that the primary businessmen behind WWI, DS Max, or whatever other name they've formulated, including Larry Tannenbaum and Bernie from Canada, are incredibly successful from this and other ventures. And when I say utterly successful, I mean silly rich. Their net worth is upwards of $500 million combined...not bad. Do all a favor and don't allow them to deceive anyone any longer, it's just not fair to the small guy. Good luck to them.....and you.
#65 Consumer Suggestion
AUTHOR: Nicole - Sitka (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Sunday, December 12, 2004
POSTED: Sunday, December 12, 2004
Hello, my name is Nicole, and I too was ripped off. This company was called tital wave select aks DS MAX and I worked there from around July of 2003 to early august of 2003. not too long, but I never once got paid. Stupid of me to stay, I know. And to those out there that ask, did I sell? Hell yes I sold,I sold alot, but all my money was taken by my team lead, Nick. Let me tell you something. I was seventeen, so that contract I signed don't mean jack! I thought it was going to make such a great job. I even considered not going to college that fall. Man am I glad, I got out of there. Now that I am two years into college, I can see much clearer now. I tell everyone I can about this company, and how I was ripped off. I wish you luck with the lawsuit, Rob. If I can do anything let me know. Contact ED for my email if you need to get ahold of me. They kept promising me payment at the end of the week. Washington law says that minors have to be paid at least min. wage. I never lied to them. They always knew how young I was. THEY LIED TO ME! I hope they go down, and go down hard! I hate those guys!
Terry, if you ever read this...I am going to do everything I can to make sure you don't "hire" anymore guilable kids right out of high school. I hate you, some "owner" you are!
#66 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: Todd - Pomona (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Sunday, December 12, 2004
POSTED: Sunday, December 12, 2004
Cult Check list!
When evaluating Ds-max, Cydcor, Granton Marketing, Innovage, or any other questionable group or religion, answer these questions to see how similar it is to a cult!
1. The group is focused on a living charismatic leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.
2. The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
3. The group is preoccupied with making money.
4. Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
5. Mind-numbing techniques (for example: meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, debilitating work routines) are used to suppress doubts about the group or its leader(s).
6. The group's leadership dictates – sometimes in great detail – how members should think, act, and feel.
7. The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s), and members (for example: the leader is considered the Messiah or an avatar; the group and/or the leader has a special mission to save humanity).
8. The group has a polarized, "we-they" mentality that causes conflict with the wider society.
9. The group's leader is not accountable to any authorities (as are, for example, clergy with mainstream denominations).
10. The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify means (for example: collecting money for bogus charities) that members would have considered unethical before joining.
11. The group's leadership induces guilt feelings in members in order to control them.
12. Members' subservience to the group causes them to cut ties with family, friends, and personal pre-group goals and interests.
13. Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group.
14. Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.
#67 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: J - Boston (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, December 14, 2004
POSTED: Tuesday, December 14, 2004
alright it's simple marxian economics...your not being paid properly for the amount of work your putting in. when you factor in the other costs(gas,lunch,lost benefits) then you're really losing out. you might get strung along with the whole "will be a branch manager in 3-6 months" crap but honestly there's only so many offices innovage/dsmax wants to open. so what? all 15-30 people in the office are going to be owners? what about the 15-30 people in all the other offices around the country? them too? obviously not...that's why it's a very competitive business...well then your only going to get successful first buy exploiting your workers and getting people to stay at a job that's not compensating them well and with a small chance of upward mobility. and secondly buy selling cheap, third rate products made in sweatshops over in china to unknowing, impulsive consumers out there for a very high profit return (90-95%) that will mostly go to the manager and the corporate people instead of to you(who did all the hard work but is told will be rewarded later,"you'll see") and sometimes you're forced to rip off people in your very own town! i mean considering all the probabilities involved YOU probably won't be a manager unless you can scam people into sticking with your crew while most of them won't even be rewarded/compensated in 3-6 months for all the time and money they put into the company. Plus owning your own company is fine but i mean a lot of people can make over 100k a yr if they put in the amount of overtime some of these owners and asst managers have to put in. i don't know, i think dsmax/innovage needs those poor brainwashed sales people who are getting ripped off a lot more than they do that small percentage of people who can actually succeed in a business like that. if they separated the offices into mgmnt training and sales then the management office would be like 2 or 3 people while the sales office would be like 40-50 people, and they would have to give the people in the sales office a bigger commission so that they'd stay on. it's easier to just combine the two and give the people that are only kept around for sales less money but justifing the whole thing with the whole "it's a management training program, you'll make the real money once you finish training and build a crew" line of bullsh*t. by the way the only reason i stuck around for like 2 weeks was cuz my manager kept saying the company was going to branch out into entertainment. i didn't stick around to find out what he meant by that but i bet it was either yanni tickets and toy keyboards made in china for 10 cents but sold in america for a ridiculous low price of 9.99! o and the stupid sales tax that no one ever wants to mention. hahaha
#68 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: R.I.P ODB - Everywehere (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, December 15, 2004
POSTED: Wednesday, December 15, 2004
kinda liked working at my branch cuz it was kids my own age (just finished college), your allowed and somewhat encouraged to act silly (i'm a goof ball), and i smoked mad weed with my leader and other fellow distributors and leaders (both while at work and after work). o and also wanted to see how good i would be at selling other things besides drugs. so don't censor me, i'm being honest..
but hey enough about me let's break it down for all the parties involved....
alright it's simple marxian economics...your not being paid properly for the amount of work you're putting in, and when you factor in the other costs(gas,lunch,lost benefits,car maintenance,new suites) then you're really losing out. you might get strung along with the whole "will be a branch manager in 3-6 months" crap but honestly there's only so many offices innovage/dsmax wants to open. so what? all 15-30 people in the office are going to be owners? what about the 15-30 people in all the other offices around the country? them too? obviously not...that's why it's a very competitive business...well then that means you're only going to get successful first by exploiting your workers and getting people to stay at a job that's not compensating them well and with a small chance of upward mobility, coupled with a false hope of success. and secondly by selling cheap, third rate products made in sweatshops over in china to unknowing, impulsive consumers out there for a very high profit return (90-95%) that will mostly go to the manager and the corporate people instead of to you(who did all the hard work but is told will be rewarded later,"you'll see") and sometimes you're forced to rip off people in your very own town! i mean considering all the probabilities involved YOU probably won't be promoted to a manager unless you can scam people into sticking with your crew long enough so that you can get promoted, eventhough most of your crew won't even be rewarded/compensated, in those 3-6 months if at all, for all the time and money they put into the company. "just waving a carrot in front the slow turtle." i guess owning your own company is fine and all but i mean a lot of people can make over 100k a yr if they put in the amount of overtime some of these owners and asst managers have to put in. i don't know, i think dsmax/innovage needs those poor brainwashed sales people, who are getting ripped off, a lot more than they do that small percentage of people who can actually succeed in a business like that. if they separated the offices into mgmnt training and sales then the management office would be like 2 or 3 people while the sales office would be like 40-50 people. plus they'd have to give the people in the sales office a bigger commission, otherwise no one would stick around.
it's just easier to combine the two and give the people that are only kept around for sales less money and getting away with it by justifying the rip-off with the whole "it's a management training program, you'll make the real money once you finish training and build a crew and open your own office and etc.." line of bullsh*t. I mean i don't have much morals or much of a conscience (which is prolly why i want to go into the music biz), but even i don't have that utter lack of morality and that void of conscienceness that these owners and other higher ups in this so called "business" must possess in order to succeed. in other words i may be able to be some type of lowlife in the music industry, but most definetly not the type of scumbag you would need to be as an owner. by the way the only reason i stuck around for like 2 weeks was cuz my manager kept saying the company was going to branch out into entertainment.
i didn't stick around long enough to find out what he meant by that but i bet it was either yanni tickets or toy keyboards made in china for 10 cents each but sold in america for a ridiculously low price of 9.99! o plus the stupid sales tax that no one ever wants to pay! hahaha
#69 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: Wells - Boston (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Thursday, December 16, 2004
POSTED: Thursday, December 16, 2004
can't completly knock on the company i guess....i mean i did get some good training and experience in sales. learned some good techniques that you can easily use in other jobs or to just simply sell yourself on job interviews. the job helps you work on your bullshitting (which is good as long as that's what you recognize this job to be). so i mean maybe looking at this job as a sort of internship or just staying on this job to see what you can get out of it as far as perfecting your sales skills, might not be that bad of an idea. the thing that sucks is being poor for so long while you will NEVER be a manager....and for those of you who are managers or owners or what ever the f*ck...that's nothing to be proud of...you got where you are today by scheming and being scumbags. your job still sucks even though you're your own boss....and your still under a lot of strain and pressure...and you have to bring your work home with you....and most of you don't even have nice places or nice cars to show off any of your success so what the f*ck are all you talking about!??! the ones who're making the real money are the corporate dirtbags who go over to china to negotiate deals for cheap, third rate products (made in sweatshps for pennies) that will break withing a couple of days of purchase, but if sold in quantity and very quickly on the streets is a good cash cow...you've heard of folex right? rolex's cousin...
#70 Employee
AUTHOR: NATHAN - LONDON (Canada)
SUBMITTED: Thursday, December 16, 2004
POSTED: Thursday, December 16, 2004
To the girl from cambige im in the london office and if you went for a day of O and didn't stay oh well to bad aint for everybody. To one coment made that ds-max is all a bunch of highschool dropout "forget YOU" I am a highschool student maintain a 90 average and a 14 peace sales average daily in a 4 hour shift. People that say stuff like this on here are the people that cant sell. Ya sorry its not for everyone and thats prity understandable but to say its a rip off company you got some nerves. Also I went to chicago with PAID EXPENCES let me add and for anyone who says ds-max is cheap please give me a break. I make kick ass money and im proud pof it and i no im going to make it somewhere. If you dont like the company to dam bad but look in the mirror and relize it aint us but its you. And to the VP that has somethin bad to say and your going to quit oh well goodbye!
#71 Employee
AUTHOR: Frank - Broomfield (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, December 18, 2004
POSTED: Saturday, December 18, 2004
For all the skeptics, ex-employees, and nay-sayers, this is directed towards you. I can confidently say without fear of contridiction that Granton, along with all the independent contractors affiliated with it, are 100% legitimate, as is the opportunity they provide. Those who have negative things to say about this company are the ones that did not have the work ethic, the intelligence, or the self-confidence to succeed, and are looking for a scape goat on which to place their failure. I am currently involved with this business, and I can honestly say that those who demonstrate a superior work ethic, as well as professionalism, maturity, and a willingness to learn, will succeed. As with any opportunity in the world, the only factor that determines success or failure is the person that has been given the opportunity. You can lead a horse to water...
#72 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: Lynn - Calgary (Canada)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, January 05, 2005
POSTED: Wednesday, January 05, 2005
Been there done that..only I was one of the secretary's they labled as an "Office Administrator" making all of $207.41 per week... working Monday thru Friday (some Saturday's) 7am to 8pm. Luckily I was only 18 years of age, and only worked for the cult for 2 years. Pay head, and do what your intuition tells you, I wished I had...My owner "Killed me with kindness!" but I'm still living!
You all can too!
#73 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: Mike - Fairfax (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Thursday, January 06, 2005
POSTED: Thursday, January 06, 2005
Frank, you might as well be calling us infidels. I'm guessing you're pretty offended that so many people would comment so harshly about something you hold so dear.
DS Max attracts young people who feel they haven't got much opportunity in the real world perhaps because they are poorly educated, have few marketable skills, have no experience, have no direction...and they tell these people that, by "Doing Exactly As I Tell You" and "Not Deviating From The System" and with a great attitude and hard work, they too can live the life of thier dreams.
Al Queda attracts young people who feel they haven't got much opportunity in the real world because their people are oppressed, their government is corrupt, the American's are keeping them down...and they tell these people that, by "Giving the Ultimate Sacrifice" and "Following The Teachings Of Fanatical Leaders", they too can live the life of thier dreams.
I used to think of DS Max as a "business bootcamp" but now I see it more as a "business terror cell."
You can lead a horse to water...Yeah, well...
Light a man a fire and he'll stay warm for the night.
Light a man ON fire and he'll stay warm for the rest of his life.
#74 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: Phillip - La Jolla (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, November 05, 2005
POSTED: Saturday, November 05, 2005
DS Max and its many divisions and branches are not real companies and if you work for them you will not have a real job. Consequently if you "become an owner" you will not really own your own business. Many apologists have come on here and argued that cases of abuse and reprehensible business practices are traits of idividual branches, not a reflection of the larger comapny. This is false, the company could not exist or fuction without these practices. The fundamental central fact of all these companies (besides the brainwashing and bizarre lingo) is that everyone that works there doesnt get paid a fraction of what their services are worth. The companies--all of them--hide this from you when you first interview there. Most companies are, at least theoretically founded on the idea that the more people in the company that succeed in their goals, the better for everyone (increased productivity, growth, earnings etc). In this way DS Max is unique because THIS COMPANY AND ITS BUSINESS MODEL ARE PREDICATED ON THE FAILURE OF 99% OF THE PEOPLE WHO WORK THERE. In fact, if even 5% of the people and DS Max were to succeed in their so-called "goals" the market would become saturated with new owneres and offices and the whole pyramid would collapse. So the company requires a constant infusion of "fresh blood" to replace the people who have quit or seen through the scheme, and these people are expected to work for a few months, leave and be replaced again. In order to perpetuate this scheme the branches cleverly hide their identities and their relationship to the larger comapny, lie in job interviews, and brainwash their overworked employees into staying. That they have the audacity to make some sort of "darwinian-capitalistic" argument in favor of this twisted scheme is dispicable--and utterly false
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