Pep Boys Does not do everything for less t, Internet

Many automobile service organizations use a flat rate manual to determine prices.  Sometimes you end up paying more than the regular hourly rate and sometimes you pay less.  It's a very common procedure and has been around a long time.

If other Pep Boy mechanics haven't heard of it they are pretty new or they are lying or you are lying.

You were not ripped off. 

If they quoted you 3 hours and it ended up taking 5 hours, would you be willing to pay the additional 2 hours?  Not likely, you'd be raising hell because they quoted you a price for 3 hours and shouldn't charge more.

With a flat rate manual, you would pay the 3 hours even if it took 5 or 1 or 2.

Of course, it will be easy to say you would pay the additional now, but at least be honest with yourself.

Just Google flat rate manual and you'll see what I mean.

I understand what a flat-rate is and I know that many automotive repair companies use them. I am not arguing that it would not be beneficial in many situations. 

What I was saying was that I never agreed to a flat-rate price. I know for a fact that they also offer an hourly rate of $100. This place charged me the flat-rate with out ever notifying me. They told me it would take 3 hours to finish and all I said was okay because I had nowhere to go; I was waiting at the garage for my car.

Any experienced mechanic would have known that these specific repairs would only take an hour (I called and asked a differnt mechanic about how long it would take to do these specific repairs, he told me an hour). I understand that they may be off by a half hour or even an hour but to over-quote me by 2 hours seems deliberate.

You think she's lying? That's ridiculous. I think they saw a single female coming from a mile away. When she told them to do something specific, they tried to tell her they couldn't to get her to spend more. When a MALE called and told them the same thing, they obliged.

If they do have a flat-rate, IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN EXPLAINED EXPLICITLY. She never agreed to a flat-rate, nor would she have, since another mechanic told her that it should only take an hour. They took advantage, clear and simple, and honestly I think you're being a jerk for no reason.

I am an ase certified master technician with 20 years of experience in the repair field. I have worked in dealerships, independently owned shops and also Pep Boys. Almost all shops use one of two nationally published labor guides to determine the proper time charged for any given repair. When I worked at Pep Boys five years ago there was a disclosure on the work order stating to the effect "labor times charged are derived from a nationally recognized labor guide, time charged may not coincide with actual time spent repairing vehicle". This is the same disclosure that I use on work orders signed by customers in my own shop, and by signing the repair order you are authorizing the repair at the price quoted. I do not know what work you had performed, but if you feel that you have been overcharged for a particular service call your dealer and ask for a labor time quote. Ask for the time charged, not the dollar amount. While there are some shops that will charge only for time spent on a vehicle they are not normally as highly trained or experienced. I understand your feeling cheated for being charged for hours that were not spent working on your vehicle, but if you look at it from a different perspective it seems less of a rip off. The technician that serviced your vehicle has the tools, training and experience to fix your vehicle correctly and quickly.

OK as for ANY worthwhile shop with 2 or more bays you will find that they use flat rate manuals and flat rate charges for most repairs. IT IS INDUSTRY STANDARD. The reason is that say Ford or Chevy says it take 2.4 hrs to remove and repair the items involved. Now after several years we will see the flat rate change as Mitchel, Alldata and other information/Flat Rate Manual suppliers will adjust subtly for issues, lack of factory tools, etc to repair certain issues. As a technician, many are paid by FRH, this means if the technician gets real good, also spends hundreds if not thousands of dollars purchasing the required tools to repair a specific issue on a car, he MIGHT get it done faster.

For instance, the first time I did a timing belt on an early 80s Escort ,my boss showed me a trick that saves time and does no damage. Now on those cars, which I will probably never see again, I can shave say half an hour on my time in doing the job, which lets me go to the next job sooner. Now very few shops pay strictly hourly and few tech will work for that. Now if I turn 12 hrs a week I make 12 x XXX FRH. Now most shops have the range from as low as $35 a FRSH (Flat Rate Shop Hour) the tech may make $8 to $25 per hour of work turned. With no guaranteed amount he needs to turn AT LEAST in take home $300 - $400 a week as he most likely has tool bills in the THOUSANDS of dollars,,,just to do a job. OK hopefully you understand how we get paid. NOW if the Flat Rate Guide is followed you will get charged the FRT(Flat Rate Time) published for said repair on said car X (Times) FRSH= Total labor bill.

Now if you hit 7 different shops, it is looked up and quoted properly you should get a rate that is consistent AND said tech can work for any shop and know he is getting say 2.5 FRH for doing job A on Car Y for X amount of time. If he makes $15 a FRH he makes $45.00 for that job. Now what you are paying for is a guy who has skills and knowledge to do it right (we hope) and the other part of the FRSH helps pay for a roof over his head, compressors to have air pressure, lifts or jacks to raise said vehicle and all the other things required to repair cars.

Did you know average price to open a 2+ bay shop in midwest town PER DAY runs in the $1800 to $2500. And this means the owner/operator HAS to make that AND the techs pay and benefits and all the other cost involved. This is why you will see disposal fees, basic shop fees that pay for chemicals not fully charged on tickets and shop towels and shops part of tech uniform bills and paper and what ever.

Flat Rate Manuals are an attempt to level the playing field for customers AND techs AND shop owners.

Basic flat rate manual software can run as low as one I have right now that $495 to start for one year and $199 a year there after to have it and shop software to write work orders and track work and such. More advanced setups can be in the THOUSANDS. Now if you are quoted a job as prescribed BY PEP BOYS procedure, they have to stick to it just like any other shop. Some will add other small items in "on the back side" of the ticket rather than bother you, larger items they will call about for further authorization. If they dont you technically dont have to pay for them (and if you authorize something it should be noted on ticket as auth. by phone and be dated and timed there also) some shops have little sense of HOW to properly sell anything let alone service.

Now, if you were quoted XXX dollars then you OWE XXX dollars. IF you were quoted XXX hrs @ XXX dollars then thats what you should pay. Just because, I, as a technician get good at my job you think I should make less per job X?

Come on if I ask you to carry a bucket across a road for $20 a bucket and you at first could only do 4 a minute, you would make $80 a minute,,,now lets say you spend several hundred dollars and buy a tool that allows you to haul 4 at a time, you would still make 4 trips a minute, but now your making not $20 a trip, or $40 a trip(one in each hand) but your making $80 X 4 X 4= $1280. But your taking 4 times as much in a trip,,,should you be made to do it for only the $80 ie you now only making a $5 a bucket?

So if we quote a job at 3 hrs, and I get it done in 1, I still get paid industry standard, I became more efficient and more productive, so I make more money. Now lets change the scenario a little the job calls for 3 hrs, and I KNOW the customer has scraped every last penny together to get it done, and a bolt breaks off, normally it takes 1 hour plus, but I spend another hour drilling out a bolt, still get it done in 2 hrs, I still beat FR, and can go on to make more, now lets say I instead have to spend 3 hrs getting the bolt out,plus the hour I quoted to do repair. Some shops will just eat the extra time, a good service manager will compensate the tech for taking extra time and having more tools to fix issue, if it is going to take more labor (ie remove a part to remove broken bolt) you might get a call asking for more labor/parts.

BUT if say it only takes me 4 hrs total including bolt time I may just chalk it up to bad luck or what ever and eat that hour.

Flat Rate Time is how we quote your repair, if we didnt have it we would lose money till we get better at guessing. And if we have to do insurance work or compete with another shop, this is how we try to do it.

Shops should give you a quote, you agree to pay for it, we do the work. It makes no sense to refund time or money as we all agree to work for $X a minute/hour/day/week. If your a secretary and make $8 an hour and work 40hrs a week, and have all your work done in 20hrs will we make you take off,,,no. Your hired in at 40hrs a week, so then you might find better filing system, do more organization, look at ways to help business operate better, what ever. you COULD ask off, but why would you? Because you got good(efficient) at your job you should be penalized for that? NO!

Well neither will I want to be penalized for me getting better at MY job. I have over $50k in tools, still carry over $5k in tool bills and have to buy more every week I work, replace lost or broken unwarranted tools and invest in new tools,,so I can be more productive. I will eat dirt, cut ,scrape and gouge my self, get burnt, dirty and sweaty to fix your car. But you dont want to reward me for being good, just want me to be cheap. Well sorry for that but I have spent nearly $100k for training, tools, and such to be where I am. BUT becasue Iget better at my job you want me to take a pay cut.

So maybe Ill just hang around for 2 hrs then do it. Or do as I do now, quote you 3 hrs, take most issues on chin, ONLY ask for extra if I really have to (like if I have to remove something to get a broken bolt out or what ever) oh and I will have a specific warranty on my work and my parts.