Wachovia Bank Wells fargo overdrafting fees when funds are available to cover the charges Jacksonville, Florida

Had the bank been honest in the online account statement I may have realized that the last transaction I made at Walmart for $25.34 would have cause 1 overdraft fee of $35.00. However transactions are not posted sometimes for days and the view holds section is normally clear of any holds. I have told the bank I do not want overdraft protection from them. This transaction at walmart was a debit as were most of them, entering my pin number, the transaction should not have been approved if the funds were not available. As for the 9 transactions that over-drafted prior to this, the Funds were available and I should not have been charged overdraft fees for them.

First off and bottom line, you owe them every penny and you should be glad as hell that they GAVE you $79.00 back for no other reason than they probably can't figure out how someone could be so bad at handling their finances.

Obviously, we can't see the activity in your pictures that led to the initial overdraft fees, but you would have gone over and gotten hit with multiple fees anyway. Looks like at least 5 or 6 by my count too...

Look at your statement and do the math, not counting any of those overdraft fees, your balance of $64.38 minus your charges and plus your $5 deposit would have left you at -$19.97...

You obviously can't maintain your account. As such, you deserve any and all fees they hit you with. It's really the only way you'll ever learn I guess.

You went past your available balance on just purchases alone, probably never even factoring that some retail outlets charge you a fee to use your debit, just like an atm would, probably never factoring that those gas stations you used the card at probably put a hold of anywhere from $20 to $50 on your account for each transaction to make sure the funds clear, probably never factoring that some banks or retailers will charge a fee for transactions under $5.00...

Are overdraft fees a rip-off? Sure, for the customer who's taken by surprise or the victim of an error.

For you? NO! You're a victim of your own ignorance and this not of a rip-off. Frankly, folks who handle their banking like this are the reason everyone else has to be so careful.

Don't blame the bank for your ineptitude.

Seriously though, WTF are you doing using your card for 9 purchases, all under $10, in just two or so days???? How the hell are you supposed to keep track of all that stuff? I suppose you keep an updated record, right? LOLOLOL You'll remain in the basement suffering from the big bank fees so long as you continue to handle your finances like a crackhead, it's that simple.

Going forward, try this method to avoid this ever happening again. After you get your balance current and deposit to the positve, take out enough cash to last you a week. Let your bank activity settle and then get an accurate starting balance from a teller. From there, use cash for EVERYTHING for at least a month... I'd say hit the atm once per deposit and take all you need leaving at least $20 behind in the account each time. Watch how you spend the cash for this month. When the cash is gone, you're done until your next deposit. Simple, huh? No money left = no buying shit, even if it's McD's.

Once you've gotten comfortable doing this, then you can venture back into the check/debit world. When you do, maintain a record! It's what grownups do and trust me, it works. You start with your current balance and EVERYTIME you write a check or use your debit, you mark it down and minus it from your total. Then, you always know how much you have and when you're out of money. Eventually, you'll build enough in your account where you can reconcile your transactions weekly or monthly instead of daily. That's a long way away for you still, but it's something even you can do with practice.

Good luck.

Holy bank defender batman..you really gave it to this customer good.

Well all the insulting and belittling will probably do nothing more then upset this customer..and glad you feel the need to give tough love like you are this customers mother..but although I agree this customer is probably not the best at handling finances..as many are not..the complaint is valid..which is...

Why is the bank clearing charges if the account is overdrawn? The customer stated not wanting overdraft protection. This customer has every right to use the card for Mcdonalds..and the bank has every right to charge a fee for overdrafting with the debit card...IF the customer so chooses to be enrolled in courtesy overdraft protection..which this customer chooses not to be...

Therefore all transactions at a point of sale or ATM should be declined if the funds are truly unavailable. Now that is simple enough.  Or, did the bank think this customer really wanted to pay $35.00 per big mac?

This is all of the transactions that is why I put pictures up. No I dont owe overdraft charges for things that have already been paid and cleared my account just because someone like you thinks "for no other reason than they probably can't figure out how someone could be so bad at handling their finances". the last transaction was walmart for $25.34 so if I am -19.97 I over spent and owe the fee that is 1 fee of $35.00. Even though I told the bank no overdraft protection and the charge should have been denyed not approved in the first place. Yes you can see the activity clearly if you look at it. It is all there. It is a bank statement! If you see 5 or 6 overdrafts perhaps you work for the bank? I only see 1. After unfairly and for no reason taking my money the bank agrees that after clearing a $10.00 charge the next day my account balance was $.75 and that is only because they kept the other $52.00.

If you are so good at financial matters please explain to me how if my available balance was $1.67 on Feburary 22,2010 minus $70.00, $3.42, $3.21 how did $18.00 plus $5.00 bring my available balance to $10.75 on February23, 2010? And why doesn't my bank statement reflect that rather than reflecting these charges clearing my account and leaving $57.75?

Even if the bank has rearranged the transactions from highest to lowest just to get the most out of the overdraft fees even you are admitting that you only see 5 or 6. You dont justify the 10? I dont think you could honestly justify more than 2 or 3. Both of the gas stations I use only put a $1.00 hold for gas so you are wrong there.

Just for your information no I am not a crackhead I am a grandmother. I was having a difficult week because February 22, is my deceased grand daughters birthday and my attempt at CPR on the day of her death failed. She died of SIDs. Yes I am human! I had no cash on me and do not like to carry cash. I have every right to pay for as many transactions as I want with my card as long as the money is there to cover them and if it isn't the bank should not approve it since I declined on the overdraft protection.

Truth is the only way i could have had a $10.00 charge clear on the 23rd is if I truly did have the $57.75 left in my account after those 2 transactions cleared and I did.

Your advise is not really discussing the matter at hand this is my bank statement. These are the overdraft notices if you want to explain something explain the available balance they have arrived at on the 22 and 23 not how I should handle my finances in the future. Better advise is to cash my checks at Walmart for $3.00 and spare my self from being ripped off again and simply have no bank account. Prepaid Visa and Mastercards cards are available if I really need one!!

You have unintentionally admitted that I did not deserve the 10 overdrafts. : ) You say you see 5 or 6?? Where???How did they arrive at 10?

My rebuttal indicated that you'd still owe 5 or 6 fees even without the first two fees on which you are blaming this mess. Your statement clearly shows why you owe eight of the ten fees you were hit with. The activity regarding why you were hit with the first two is not visible, but I'm certain they're just as valid.

Your bank statement is as clear as it could be. Frankly, if can't follow it then you shouldn't be using the card, it's really that simple.

Also, I'm still appalled that they gave you $79 for messing up like this. I keep my balance in order and they don't give me squat. That doesn't seem fair.

As for the naysayers who think the OP's card should be declined if there are no finds available...it probably would. There is nothing here that indicates she has any type of protection that would pay for a purchase at the point of sale if there isn't enough in her account to cover that purchase. Remember, she didn't get approved for $100 when she only had $60. She got approved for $25, $10, $5, $3, etc. The bank isn't allowed to keep track of these approvals because they're not yet official transactions. Money can not deducted from your account UNTIL a retailer submits the transaction for payment.  

At the time each of the 9 or 10 purchases were made (02/22), the OP had at least $60.00 or so in her account. Remember, it wasn't until the close of business on 02/22 that she was hit with the fees that pushed her to the negative. Because of this, when her 02/22 transactions were presented for payment on 02/23, she didn't have enough to cover them, so she was hit with overdraft fees for each of them, and rightfully so.

You say they should have declined her at the point of sale. Why? Each retailer checked with the bank and each time, there were funds there. The OP decided however that she might beat the system and kept spending even though there wouldn't be enough to go around when transactions hit later. That's her bad.

If she had tried her card for $70 when she only had $60, it'd have been declined. If she tried her card for any amount on 02/24, it'd have been declined.

See, there's no overdraft protection in place here, the bank is only paying the transactions that were approved. Besides, you can't decline payment to the retailer after the point of sale, it's much to late at that point. The customer has the merchandise and the retailer would be left holding the bag? That would result in economic chaos...retailers would become collection agencies and costs for everything would skyrocket and the conveniences of using credit/debit would be eliminated...it's just not an option. Everyone would be punished because the people like the OP can't keep a record of their spending.

The bottom line, the OP owes every penny and until she learns how the world works, she'll continue to suffer these types of financial repercussions. The most difficult problem she faces now is her own ignorance. At the moment, she would rather post here, placing blame with the bank and making excuses why she spends the way she does than admit that she dropped the ball. The sooner she decides to take a little responsibility for her own finances and keep a record, then the sooner she'll be free of these fees forever. It's really amazing how all these problems melt away once people stop the blame game, admit their mistakes, and take control of their finances.

Good luck.

P.S. to the OP, not that it has any bearing on your situation here whatsoever, I feel that I must say that I'm sorry for your loss... just don't sully her memory by making her into an excuse for an overdraft fee, it's not her fault.

I had an account at a credit union prior to this and never once received an overdraft fee. The way the credit unions system worked if I got a coffee at Dunkins and dialed the bank line prior to taking a sip of that coffee the money was already deducted from my account.

Yes it is possible for the bank to do this but they choose not to do it this way because they would lose millions in overdraft fees.

On February 22 around 5:00 pm prior to heading out to the dollar store to get balloons to release in honor of my grand daughters birthday I did check my online account and the overdraft fees were not there. My online account showed the $57.75 with no holds pending. If you notice the transactions for $3.21 and $3.42 are from Feb 19 and Feb 20 they did not process until the 22 and they did clear.

My daughter had a toothache and I let her use the card to go into CVS to get something for it $6.99. A debit transaction that needs to be approved. If my balance at that time was $-12.25 it would not have been approved. If it was $1.67 it would not have been approved.

My next stop was the dollar store where we bought the three balloons again a debit transaction that would not have been approved if I had a negative balance.

I stopped at a Hess for $10.00 in gas. I know the gas transaction only put a $1.00 hold because it is the normal place where I get gas. Unless there was over a dollar in the account it would not have allowed me to pump gas.

My daughters tooth was still bothering her after releasing the balloons so she went to Walmart for anbesol again that was approved.

My grandson was hungry and tierd so I let him get a happy meal. Approved! That means the system checked my account several times and sure enough there was a positive balance at that time over the $3.53!

I was concerned about the amount of swipes going on and yes I do normally keep track of all these little purchases it is not that difficult I do have a college education.

You can LOLOLOL all you want if you find some kind of joy in all of this!  What is OP? What does OP mean? Is it something too long for you to type out?

My account was not overdrawn until my final purchase at Walmart which was a debit where a pin was entered. Back in the day when debit cards first came out that would have immediately removed the money from my account. That type of technology is available and used by little credit unions with much less money than the banks and the credit unions are not being bailed out.

Yes through my tears on my grand daughters birthday after releasing those balloons I took $20.00 cash back so I could let the card cool off for a couple days while I did the math. I forgot about the 2 stops for gas that day only because I wasn't thinking right on that day because it was my grand daughters birthday!It was an accident.  I realized I had overspent by what I thought was $5.00 and I did go to the bank and deposit it the next morning.

Do I blame this on her death? NO!! I didnt even mention her death untill (batman) You made remarks like "so long as you continue to handle your finances like a crackhead" "It's what grownups do" " You'll remain in the basement" You sound like a very verbally abusive man!! I mention her death only to say I was having a bad day and this is why!

How about crawling back into your bat-cave and doing the math again? My account was not overdrawn until the last transaction I made at walmart for $25.34. I find it strange that it takes 2 or 3 days to process transactions until I spend over. The bank suddenly picks up the ball and processes real quick that day!

Do I have to take this from the banks? NO!! Credit unions are much more accurate and fair in their accounting than banks are and they process transactions as they happen. I could just cash my check and not have an account.  I have paid off my car loan that was %7 interest at a credit union it only had 9 miles on it when i got it!. I am not a crackhead the economy is bad and a lot of people are broke right now it is not just me.

If my balance was $1.67 on February 22 prior to makeing all these little purchases including a purchase from February 19 and 1 on February 20 why doesnt my bank statement show this? Why would any of this stuff been approved and where are the purchases that put me over??? There are no other purchases as of today my account still remains at $-290.97.

Ignorance??!! The real problem here is not my ignorance it is yours at the moment. You must work at a Wachovia or you would not be defending them for stealing my money like this. It is not my ignorance that is bothering you it is my intelligence. Because most people will just pay these outrageous fees even when they don't deserve it.

Here is how it works! Transactions are taken out of your available balance but not your real balance and remain like that for days. Often not even showing up as a hold. If you spend over what you have in the bank they use this negative available balance and go back to process these same transactions and incoming transactions even though the transactions them self are what gave you the available balance in the first place. A kind of double dipping and much like chips and dip, double dipping is disgusting!

Please Batman if you want to spend so much time defending the bank do a better job. Drop the insulting and belittling for a moment and concentrate on the task at hand. Go back to February 22 and enter a balance of $1.67 like the bank says I had and make the math work or at least show where the $1.67 came from. Justify 10 overdraft fees instead of trying to insult me because at my age your insults do not concern me.

I forgot about the 2 stops for gas that day only because I wasn't thinking right on that day because it was my grand daughters birthday

- You forgot because you didn't keep a register.  And yes by that statement you are using your granddaughter as an excuse.  But it is interesting how that didn't keep you from doing other daily items such as driving and going to other stores.  If you were not distracted/distraught enough to drive, you are not too distracted/distraught to write down the transaction as you make them.

Also, Credit Unions and Banks process transactions basically the same way.  In that when you use a Debit Card they will place a "hold" on the amount and deduct that from your available balance.  Then depending on the merchant it may take 1-3(or more) banking days for the amount to actually POST.  When it posts it will post at the end of the day for all the transactions ready to post since the previous banking day.  As to why you didn't overdraft at your CU, that is impossible to say for sure(although I am sure that there will be people who will try).  Perhaps you never spent more than you had available, perhaps the transactions took a few days to actually post giving you time to get the money into the account, perhaps you even kept a register, or perhaps a hundred different other things.  Just like you and a vast majority of people didn't overdraft at the CU, there were people who did.  And just like you overdrafted at this bank, there is a vast majority of people who don't.

Reguardless of what people who tell you that the banks are evil and you are not to blame, and there are all of these suits and regulations coming.  NOTHING takes the place of taking PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for YOUR money.  Because no matter what regulations are put into place if you don't take the responsibility for your account you WILL overdraft.  The biggest start to this is to make sure you are very diligent in keeping a register.

Here is how the bank arrived at the $1.67 available balance! Going back prior to the last two items that cleared my account my balance was

64.38 now subtract the purchases that were made on the evening of February 22,2010

-25.34 Walmart the last transaction I made to this account after 8 pm

-7.04

-6.99 walmart anbesol at 8:04pm

-6.97

-6.42

-6.42

-3.53 McDonalds at 8:08pm

 =1.67

The above purchases were made on the evening of February 22, 2010 now for the bank to say “Available balance before items were presented” is an outright lie! The first transaction was presented to the bank on February 19 $3.21the next on February 20,2010 $3.42 these items had already cleared the bank before I left the house on the evening of February 22,2010 I had gone online and checked my balance. My available balance was the same as my balance $57.75 with both transactions deducted. This was around 5:00 pm on February 22,2010. This shows up still on my online statement.

Were these purchases made on February 22, 2010 really taken from my available balance prior to my trips to McDonalds on February 19,2010 and February 20,2010? They were made on the evening of February 22, 2010 after the $3.21 and $3.42 were posted to my account online so how was my “available balance before items were presented” $1.67 before I made the transaction that brought my available balance to $1.67? Did the bank predict my evening of spending and subtract it from my available balance before I swiped the card on the evening of February 22,2010 and then lie about my available balance being 57.75?

How can the bank get away with deducting a transaction from your available balance while the funds are available, then to go back and process this same transaction against that available balance with all of the transactions that have already been deducted from your available balance then individually added back in just for that transaction and subtracted again along with overdraft fees? And then to go as far as to say this was your available balance when the transaction was presented to the bank? Was it deducted from my available balance before the purchase was even made?  Was the transaction presented to the bank after it was already deducted from my available balance along with every other transaction not deducted from my balance but deducted from my available balance?

How did each transaction individually get presented to the bank with every other transaction made that day already deducted from the available balance before the transaction was presented to the bank for each transaction?

The problem is not that I can’t keep a register or my ignorance the problem is that the bank is ripping people off and lying about what the available balance was at the time that the item was "presented" to the bank!

Am I using my grand daughters death as an excuse? NO!! I am explaining what made my day so difficult that I managed to forget about my gas purchases and not jot them down in my register. I only mentioned this after the rude remarks from  batman to try to explain what was actually happening in my life that day.

And to Robert if a family member dies yes we are distraught and may forget things or overlook things but we still manage to go to the flower shop to order the flowers and Drive to the funeral. Then we call in to work and our jobs understand and do not expect us to be up to par and get the job done. Most jobs will pay you for those days you were to distraught to work but not too distraught to drive to and attend the funeral.

The fact is that the two transactions were already posted to my online account statement before I left the house. So they were clearly presented to the bank before my available balance hit $1.67 that evening. The last transaction "presented" to the bank that day was Walmart for $25.34. without that transaction everything else would have cleared and that is the only transaction that i deserve the $35.00 overdraft fee on.

As far as the credit unions they do have respect for their share holders and would not try to pull these fancy accounting tricks to rip them off! They do not handle transactions like this! If there is a hold on that money it is paid without an overdraft fee. If funds are not available the transaction is declined at the point of sale. Credit unions try to help the share holders not rip them off like this.

There is a reason for all these suits and regulations that will soon come into play! I do hope that every person who has been ripped off in the same way as I have been will get all their money back.

With all the money they pull out of peoples accounts with fraudulent statements like "available balance before Items were presented" I do not understand why they need the government to bail them out.

Here are a couple of receipts that back up the time and date of the transactions tell how they were presented to the bank befor i went to mcdonalds on the 19th?

If money is taken out of your "available balance" and put on hold because of a transaction the intention of this "hold" is to hold on to that money in order to pay for THAT transaction! That is the purpose of taking funds from your balance and reducing it into an available balance.
It is not intended to give the bank a lower balance to process transactions against in order to make the most of overdraft fees!
So when you swipe your card for $6.99 and $6.99 is taken from your available balance and put on "HOLD" the money was there at the time the item was presented to the bank. Because it was taken from your available balance the funds were available and the money for that transaction is being withheld from your real cash balance in order for that transaction to process! It is suppose to be a promise to pay for the transaction the money is being held for. That is why the money is no longer "available".
Since all of these transactions above were deducted from my available balance at the time of purchase and there was a hold lowering my balance into an available balance, Funds were available at the time that the item was presented to the bank!
This is the purpose of the bank being able to take your real cash balance money and turn it from real money into an "available balance".
If I have $57.75 real money in the bank and there is a hold on that money due to transactions turning my real "money" into an "available balance" it is because I spent the money on those specific transactions and the bank is "HOLDING" funds from my real money balance in order to pay for those transactions!
Therefor the bank has no right to pretend that the money wasn't there when it was when they subtracted it from my available balance! The bank also has no right to take this money to pay for any other transactions when it was taken from your available balance and put on hold in order to pay for a specific transaction.
I would be really interested in hearing what "Batman and Robert" have to say about this and am still waiting to hear how a $6.99 transaction will overdraft a real cash balance of $57.75 when it turned my real balance into an available balance????
I am also waiting to hear how the bank can go back to transactions that have already been deducted from my available balance and then deducted from my real money in my account, cleared my account, having already been deducted from my real cash balance only to overdraft at a later time.

Lisa:

This is the heart of the problem. You don't need to pay for any service to keep track of your money, you just need to KEEP A RECORD!

What is so hard about this? Why can't any of these overdraft-fee complainers or their defenders understand a concept that is so simple???

KEEP A RECORD!

If you're living close to the wire, you start your record at 80% of your next deposit. What's that mean? It means that if you deposit $100, start your record with an $80 balance. If you deposit $400, then you start with $320...see?

Why do this you ask? This is done so that all the crap you've stirred up with your idiotic concepts of personal finance can finally settle. This way, any recent fees or purchases you might not remember can still hit and it won't necessarily break you. It's called a cushion, which is basically like leaving a little room for error in case you math wizards make a mistake.

Now, every time you buy something, you minus the cost from your total. When the number is too small to make a purchase, you don't do it! You wait until you've made another deposit. Simple, huh? Don't spend what you don't have. Then, the next time you make a deposit, you add that to your running total. If you treat the number on your record just the same as if it were cash in your hand, then you'll NEVER EVER get another overdraft fee. NEVER.

The ONLY thing you should be using online or telephone updates of your account for is to make sure you haven't forgotten or missed anything, like automatic transaction withdrawals you may have set up.

OMG! What's this? Did I just spell out an EASY system that keeps an ACCURATE running balance and will also prevent nearly all chances of getting hit with overdrafts? Yes. And it's also FREE?? YES. Wow!

See, all you people who piss and moan about this stuff run into problems because you try and get creative.

You all say shit to yourselves like, "well, since it doesn't show that Walmart purchase online yet, I can sneak in a pack of smokes at 7-11," or "well, I'm making a deposit tomorrow, so I can make this purchase today and try to beat it to the bank."

Don't play games like that because you're gambling and the house always wins. Just stop spending when you're out of money... really, people...this isn't a tough concept to grasp. Get out of the "buy now, pay later" mentality and try thinking "save now, buy later" instead.

I don't think that overdraft fees are fair. Hell, I don't even think they're right. The simple fact is though that they're there and they're a part of the game. As such, you either need to learn to step through the clearly marked minefield, or just gtfo. You can't walk past the signs, ignore the others who know how to play, then blow your leg off and cry foul. Sorry, it just doesn't work that way. 

Two final points before you guys rev up your excuse machines...

First, not everyone who holds an opinion contrary to your own is employed by the bank. Honestly, after reading posts like these, if we were to go by that mentality, that would mean anyone with a speck of common sense would be working for the banks, and we know that isn't the case...

Second, and I hope some of you defenders take this in as food for thought. You know what every single last complaint on this site about overdraft fees has in common? THEY ALL SPENT MORE MONEY THAN THEY HAD! Funny, isn't it? Granted, they all have some silly excuse why they did it and some crazy rational as to why they should be exempt of the rules, but they all did it...weird coincidence, huh? 

In 2007, there was a lawsuit filed against Wells Fargo.  It didn't go anywhere, but it's interesting:

There is a very simple solution to this. KEEP A REGISTER and USE CASH. Then it doesn't matter when or how transactions are processed. If you routinely let your account get to under $100 or so (and not have a cushion) this is the ONLY way you will ever avoid overdraft fees. Better yet, it means the bank won't get all those fees from you either. Do you really want to support them?  Yes, the re-sequencing thing and the disappearance of previously cleared items is annoying and confusing. But it's not a rip off. It's a game of "Who wants the money?"  It's an easy game to win and the benefit is $$$$$$$ in your pocket.

Robert has written on this very topic in several ROR and has good advice. You might want to take it.

I read an interesting statistic somewhere that 10% of those with a checking account are responsible for 90% of the overdraft fees. Thank God I learned my lesson early. I've only had one OD in probably 7-8 years, and that was because of a math error in my REGISTER. My bad. I paid the fee and never did it again. And I truly live paycheck to paycheck so every penny counts.