#1 Update By Author
AUTHOR: Dr. jt - Itasca (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, May 06, 2009
POSTED: Wednesday, May 06, 2009
Comments
2009-01-14 18:12:59
Name: David
Location: New York
Excellent points, $ally, not to mention the illegal contract they presented to me (in New York state), the lies and falsified information about ERISA and cracking the insurance code in NY, and the BS about creating "systems" in your office. For future franchise suckers, I suggest you call the former franchisees in the back of the book they give you when you inquire about the franchise. People backed out for a reason.
2008-10-23 21:03:34
Name: $ally
Location: California
Fir$t, I $uggest you a$k Health$ource about their fee$ (7.5% of collection$ (ALL COLLECTION$)), and the franchi$e fee, and the monthly payment$, and then extra overhead (you'll $ee), and $oftware / $upport fee$(Phunkey...ouch!), and promotion$ (mandatory), and mandatory compliance to the H$ program, and termination of contract fee$... then recon$ider.
"We don't want to change your practice, we only want to help you expand your Chiropractic Office! To help more people.... yada yada yad
#2 Employee
AUTHOR: Interested - Richmond (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, May 27, 2009
POSTED: Wednesday, May 27, 2009
Dr Tomshack has done nothing new- he is franchising a service just as restaurants have done for years. The fees mentioned are very upfront and arent "hidden" as you have implied; obviously so much so that you yourself were aware of them as well. As any business opportunist involved with franchises has expierenced, there are fees associated with the support and brand naming of your franchise. Does it make Dr Tomshack and his team money? ABSOLUTELY! Does it as well make the franchisee money? OF COURSE! It is an option that chiropractors have searched for and missed for years- how to turn their office into a BUSINESS versus a job. To have assistance and guidance in stepping out of my office as the doctor and running multiple clinics in my area is something far beyond what the average consultant has been able to lead. So call it "rehashed scripts" and "sales pitches" all you want- it is nothing new in our commercial economy. Its simply one way of achieveing a goal.
#3 Update By Author
AUTHOR: Dr. Jt - Itasca (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, June 02, 2009
POSTED: Tuesday, June 02, 2009
Look, Dr. Tomshack is a business man, but also a salesman..IS he trying to make money, YES..Nothing wrong with that. Is he trying to help other chiropractors make money, yes....also ok...
the problem with this group, is that he is not ethical or honest with his dealings..
He preys on yound or under achieving docs and sells them a dream. Also, ok as long as it is LEGAL...
teaching NOOPE...no out of pocket expense is illegal. Bypassing medicare as their primary insurance to get to the secondary can be illegal. And yes, people know the costs before signing...but what happens when is re-hashed "killer ads" dont pull..I guess you offer a guarantee to new patients with a full refund....illegal by the way..or you maximum bill back braces to any insurance carrier that will pay for them.
And if you dare challenge Dr. Tomshack as to his "systems", you may not be part of the franchise system...Great can I get my 25K back...NOPE..
see this guy figured out that it is easier to sell chiropractic to chiropractors then the general public....For you chiros that bought into his program...I feel bad...You could have bought TARA ads...for 200 bucks each month and get 6 to choose from vs. one....
HealthSource also will sell you on an exit strategy that will be value your clinic at 6x the real worth in his mind when he offers a PPO....never will happen..FYI..
this guy has franchisees, past business partners and associates all going after him..
Be wise...spend your 25K on a 1 year full time marketer...offer them a % of what they do for you.....
#4 Employee
AUTHOR: Interested - Richmond (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Sunday, June 14, 2009
POSTED: Sunday, June 14, 2009
Dr J,
I am very curious and am genuinely asking- how do you Tomshack? Were you in the franchise?
#5 Update By Author
AUTHOR: Dr. Jt - Itasca (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, July 08, 2009
POSTED: Wednesday, July 08, 2009
Dr. T.
Has a terrible reputation with chiropractors in Ohio. He sells. He is good at it.
I was involved with his franchise. If it has worked for you, great.
I never saw much more that high salesmenship, with glossy inserts..Plus an overpriced billing system.
7% of fees you were ALREADY making. Again, if it works for you, great. My OPINION is that he gets into too many GRAY areas of billings..
Of course he does not have a license to risk as he does not practice.
I have talked with many past franchisees...seems a lot are dropping out.
I dont believe there will ever be an exit strategy as he mentioned.
A chiropractic office is still a chiropractic office.
Remember it has always been easier to sell chiropractic to chiropractors than the general public.
#6 Owner of Company
AUTHOR: Interested - Richmond (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, July 22, 2009
POSTED: Wednesday, July 22, 2009
I am a startup vs a conversion clinic. Could you explain to me a few questions i always have when I hear of conversions:
1- Why did you buy into Healthsource? Was it in hopes of increasing income?
2- Why did you exit Healthsource?
3- Wjat do you attribute to your exit in Healthsource?
Thank you for your input. I am very interested. Again, I have done previous franchise ideas and I am more interested in the franchise concept vs Tomshack himself.I am also interested in, though, why it may not have worked for others.
#7 Employee
AUTHOR: Dr. Jt - Itasca (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, August 05, 2009
POSTED: Wednesday, August 05, 2009
Look, if you want to know more about HealthSource then go to their Discovery Day..
He will talk about how chiros are dying and they are the only solution..
Look, how to franchise something that is so personal like a doctor's relationship and especially true in chiropractic.
Look, do you want to spend 25-30K and then give 7% of your earnings to this clown?
I will give you the actual quote from another franchisee...that is in this group...
Q: Did your business increase with HealthSource?
A: YES
Q: Did your costs and operating expenses increase?
A: YES
Q: Did you make extra money?
A: NO
Q: So the lease for the franchisee fee, the royalty, their software system, their required ads, increased your expenses but not your bottom line, who then profits from the system?
A: Tomshack
#8 Owner of Company
AUTHOR: Interested - Richmond (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, August 08, 2009
POSTED: Tuesday, November 03, 2009
I have been to their discovery day and the main point i grasped on was their business behind the doctor..as i mentioned (i think) ive franchised before but NOT a medical concept.. and i respect everyone's expierence..but i think the GOAL would be to get multiple clinics going that you own, the same as my other franchise; i would never consider a healthsource franchise for just 1 office or to convert an already existing office; but i do thank you for your info- like i said i respect everyone's expierence and it definately helps show me the "potholes" i may be coming across in my near future!!
#9 Employee
AUTHOR: Carrie - Vermilion (USA)
SUBMITTED: Thursday, October 29, 2009
POSTED: Thursday, October 29, 2009
I am a representative from HealthSource Chiropractic corporate. We
would like to help resolve any issues you may have with HealthSource
while addressing any additional concerns. Our overall mission is to
Raise the Bar for Chiropractic, and that ideal has propelled us to the
largest chiropractic franchise in the world. Please feel free to
contact me personally at:
440-967-5458
cpuhalla@healthsourcechiro.com, or
4365 Liberty Avenue
Vermilion, OH 44089
#10 Update By Author
AUTHOR: Dr. jt - Itasca (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, November 03, 2009
POSTED: Tuesday, November 03, 2009
....but from everything I have heard from many people, just about everyone has
gotten a "bad deal" (lightly put) from Tomshack....
#11 Employee
AUTHOR: HS-IT - (United States of America)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, December 15, 2009
POSTED: Tuesday, December 15, 2009
THIS IS A QUOTE FROM A FORMER EMPLOYEE THAT WAS IN THE MAIN OFFICE IN VERMILLION AND TRAINED MULTIPLE OFFICES AND STAFF:
"Healthsource has policies in place that reduce fees to almost all
patients. these policies include only charge half the deductible, half
the copay, or accept the insurance payments only. Healthsource never
collects the out of pocket. Once a patient has met the deductible they
usually only collect copays. They have fomulas and charts for reducing
fees-I don't know them or have access to them.
I can tell you that the philosophy is that if care is affordable for patients, they will keep coming and refer other people."
TO SAY THAT HEALTHSOURCE IS THE LARGEST CHIROPRACTIC FRANCHISE..SOUNDS SO IMPRESSIVE - EXCEPT THAT HOW MANY ARE THERE...???
TELL ME THAT YOU ARE THE LARGEST PIZZA CHAIN OR FAST FOOD CHAIN,, THEN I WOULD BE IMPRESSED...
SECOND...IT IS ILLEGAL TO REDUCE CO-PAYS OR WAIVE THEM....THIS IS WHAT
THIS FRANCHISE IS BUILT ON....HOW MANY OF YOU WOULD LIKE A CHIROPRACTIC
ADJUSTMENT WITH SOME MUSCLE STIM AND A MASSAGE FOR 5 BUCKS....SURE SIGN
ME UP....BUT WHEN IT COSTS YOU 50 BUCKS...YOU MAY NOT BUY AS MUCH....
AND BY THE WAY...ALL THESES "SYSTEMS" THAT TOMSHACK SAYS HE CREATED WAS TAKEN DIRECTLY FROM ANOTHER GROUP WITH HIS SPIN...
EXCEPT WITHOUT THE ROYALTY FEE.....
STAY AWAY AND GET OUT OF YOUR CONTRACT BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!
#12 Owner of Company
AUTHOR: Lily - Seattle (United States of America)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, July 31, 2010
POSTED: Saturday, July 31, 2010
Joining Healthsource two years ago was the biggest business mistake my husband ever made!!!
If anyone can give us advice on the best way to get out of it, pleeeeeease let us know!!!!!! Our rep told us we’d have to pay half the franchise fee to get out early but we can’t see it anywhere in the contract. Anyone know anything about that?
#13 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: HS-IT - (USA)
SUBMITTED: Monday, August 09, 2010
POSTED: Monday, August 09, 2010
I would love to know your problems and the biggest mistake...
As far as getting out of the contract,
Tomshack, is very smart and SLIMEY...he will not let you out and you will have to get a great attorney...
Also..I know for a fact...that he will lie and his attorney will lie to protect his $$$..
(TRUST ME) I know first hand..
#14 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: HS-IT - (USA)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, September 07, 2010
POSTED: Tuesday, September 07, 2010
You need to go to the HealthSource main website and look at the corporate officers.
Don Besisi, failed in practice
Frank Dachtler uses tele-marketing and police reports ( and he is the marketing guy )
then you have a guy who is the copyrighter..Steve Szucs (SUX)..., this guy rights glossy ads..( that is the "system" )
just buy some killer ads or other chiro ads that have people are selling for a few hundred bucks and run A LOT of them....do a few dinner talks and screenings and you will be better off.....
#15 Employee
AUTHOR: PShapiro - Stockton (United States of America)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, September 25, 2010
POSTED: Saturday, September 25, 2010
What did you expect? To buy a franchise and not pay royalties? Be realistic, check out other franchises, they all charge something they all have systems. You expect to buy into a franchise and not use their systems? They all have systems jerk, McDonald's, Subway, and all the others, that what a franchise is. They don't give leather bags away or steak knives, stupid. Every time I have ever e-mailed someone about a billing questions they get back to me right away and help me with the questions. What happened you buy a franchise then not follow the rules and get kicked out? Sounds like that to me. You are probably one of those chiropractors that insist patients come in for 36 visits or 45 visits, and have "the works" or they won't get better. You probably promise them everything and deliver nothing. You don't have to do ads you don't want to run, or EZ promos you don't want to do or can't afford, they just give you the marketing materials and you pick what you want to do or can afford. They don't dictate what you HAVE to do, they have the information there for you and you can choose what to use and not use. They suggest stuff to you and it's your choice to do and use it. They have good systems and you get the clinic set up to run efficiently with their systems. They help you any time you call them or e-mail them. They get right back to you and answer your questions. If it's a billing question they tell you what you should be doing and what you should not be doing. Guys who get into the program and don't do well need someone to blame so they blame HealthSource and Tomshack, cause they don't want to admit they couldn't cut it. You sound like one of those guys.
#16 Employee
AUTHOR: HS-IT - (USA)
SUBMITTED: Thursday, September 30, 2010
POSTED: Thursday, September 30, 2010
So you start off and call me a jerk..Of course..tell me three things that would classify as a "system"...
Funny how other posters on this board agree with me..and others see what Healthsource is...Now a franchise like McDonalds or Subway is recognized...So many people are looking for a HealthSource...Food chains are reproducible, chiropractic is not.
As far as my clinical skills or chiropractic skills. I treat people based on their specific cases..You sound like a chiropractor that could not figure anything out on his own and had to pay 30,000...PLUS 7% of the money already making and then add all the HS costs...Good move...!!
And guess what I actually dont need new patients as I have built such a wellness base..I can rely on keeping people well....
I am smart enough to keep my overhead so low that at the end of the day, it is not how many you see, or bill out or even collect...the bottom line is what do you take home..
Kicked out? nobody kicked me out....as the other posters from Seattle or Ohio how they feel and want out of his "SYSTEM"...
the system, what was it again? Oh...wait tap on the view box during the report to make it more effective? Or have staff do the consultation? or MAX bill the insurance companies and take what you can....get that back brace and fitting fee too...
The problem with you, is you overspent for nothing...and are stuck for what 7-10 years....well at least you have Phunkey!
#17 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: HS-IT - (USA)
SUBMITTED: Sunday, December 26, 2010
POSTED: Sunday, December 26, 2010
AFTER YEARS OF GOING AROUND AND AROUND WITH DR. TOMSHACK AND ARGUING AND DEBATING REBUTALS ON THIS SITE, LET'S STICK TO THE FACTS...
1. DR. TOMSHACK IS ULTRA-SUCCESSFUL...IF WE TOOK ALL HIS MONIES AWAY TODAY..IN A SHORT TIME, HE WOULD BE SUCCESSFUL IN ANOTHER AREA OF BUSINESS. THAT IS HOW HE HAS BEEN HIS ENTIRE LIFE.
2. CHIROPRACTIC IS A DIFFICULT PROFESSION, BUT IT MAY BE WORTH IT TO THE INDIVIDUAL TO DECIDE IF WHAT HE AND HEALTHSOURCE OFFER IS RIGHT FOR YOU.
3. HE IS ONE OF THE LARGEST MENTORS AND LEADERS IN THE CHIROPRACTIC PROFESSION.
4. HIS FRANCHISEES AND OFFICES HAVE ALL PERFORMED WELL.
ANY OPINIONS I HAVE OF THIS PERSON, ARE STRICTLY PERSONAL AND NOT PROFESSIONAL. I AM SURE THAT ANYONE THAT FINDS THESE POSTS OR THIS WEBSITE CAN DETERMINE THAT FOR THEMSELVES.
IF YOU HAVE A CHIROPRACTIC OFFICE AND ARE NOT HAPPY, THEN I SAY GET THE FREE INFORMATION AND GO TO A FREE SEMINAR AND SEE IF HEALTHSOURCE IS RIGHT WITH YOU..
ANY DEROGATORY STATEMENTS THAT I MADE WAS DONE IN ANGER AND SIMPLY A LONG STANDING DISAGREEMENT THAT HAS LASTED TOO LONG. I AM IN NO WAY RECONCILING MY PERSONAL FEELINGS, BUT IN ALL FAIRNESS, THE HEALTHSOURCE TEAM IS COMPRISED OF MANY LEADERS WITHIN THE CHIROPRACTIC PROFESSION AND DO OFFER GUIDANCE AND EXPERIENCE WITH BUILDING A CHIROPRACTIC OFFICE.
I RETRACT ANY NEGATIVE STATEMENTS AND ANYTHING PREVIOUSLY POSTED AS A SIGN OF SIMPLY BEING COMPLETELY UPSET AGAINST DR. TOMSHACK PERSONALLY AND NOT PROFESSIONALLY.
YOU CAN DETERMINE FOR YOURSELF IF THEIR BUSINESS MODEL IS ALIGNED WITH YOUR BUSINESS GOALS.
TAKE THE ADVICE FROM A SUCCESSFUL PERSON FIRST AND THEN DECIDE ON YOUR OWN.
#18 Consumer Suggestion
AUTHOR: Bryant - Tucson (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, March 02, 2011
POSTED: Wednesday, March 02, 2011
It appears teaching medical providers how to
NOT COLLECT co-pays and deductibles is not only illegal for federal entitlement programs such as Medicare & Medicaid, but also violates the contracts of many commercial insurance carriers. It does not matter if Dr. Tomshack has a license or not, his teaching or coaching is enough to potentially get him prosecuted just like a couple of other chiropractic consultants such as Ron Halstead, currently doing 20 years in the federal prison and paying a substantial fine. I cannot assure this is illegal because I do not have enough information, but I certainly have the contacts to get this reviewed by counsel. If you are intersted in learning more about how to proceed with this action, please text me your phone number at (((ROR redacted)). This is a text only number as the phone call will not go through. I will take this directly to a law office that will help you file the law suit as a contingency case as I have contact with a number of health care attorneys. If you have the proof, I have the attorneys to take your case. It certainly appears to be questionable on first blush.
Text your phone number (((ROR redacted)))
CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.
#20 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: NO WAY MAN - (USA)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, November 22, 2011
POSTED: Tuesday, November 22, 2011
this "doctor" de-frauded me...Tomshack lied and made false claims.
I did NOT buy his franchise..he is a liar and a crook...
F YOU Tomshack and your bull****.
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