Northcentral University Makes Marketing Promises But Doesn't Deliver For the Research/ Dissertation Phase Prescott Arizona

NCU is not for everyone. Some Learners struggle when they reach the RSH-DIS track. This is due to the fact the program becomes a production based matter where the Learner provides the words and crafts the Dissertation methodology, writes the literature review, drafts the proposal, conducts the actual study, analyzes data, makes some findings, draws some conclusions, writes the dissertation, and defends the work. It is not a period where one is reading a text and writing a case study analysis, or an essay, or answering some questions. It is a study being conducted at this point.

Should NCU have a better way of determining if every Learner can complete this course of study successfully? That would be nice, but nearly impossible. We write our personal statement, produce transcripts, and apply to the University. They look us over and if we qualify we undertake the course of study at our own risk.

I think this ex-Learner is angry (with some justification), but the vitrolic and petty attack on NCU calling it a glorified correspondence school is unwarrranted and unfair. This University is regionally accredited, and just successfully passed the reaffirmation visit by the HLC site team. Some minor changes were suggested and are being implemented (our Provost tells us this by teleconference).

I am sympathetic with this individual, but the pettiness of the closing slap should be seen as just that.

Kenw - In hindsight, the vitrol does detract from the main message. Here is a more focused message, sans the pettiness.

All of the classes leading up to the first research class were completed with almost no interaction between the mentors and myself, other than the posting of assignments & grading. I liked the fact that I could do the work at my own pace and without being forced to the usual constraints seen at a brick & mortar university like set classroom times, mid-terms, finals and group assignments. I am also very satisfied with the class rigor and the 3.58 GPA earned for those first 8 classes. Unfortunately, I'm also disappointed that very little of this work can transfer to another school.

The first research class sets the foundation for the rest of the research and dissertation process. At a point where studies have shown that 50% or more students quit their programs, I was iced by the professors by their dismissive answers to my questions during this first research class. After little participation by the mentors, failing grades were issued with no advance warning that they were going to do so. When the instructor's conduct was brought to the attention of the Dean via the appeals process, the school chose to dismiss me rather than acknowledge that their instructors were not actively contributing as mentors. The first research class is NOT a time to be assigned an absentee mentor or a mentor that is not capable of teaching research and dissertation courses. In my situation, the behavior of the two instructors points to a conclusion that they are not capable of teaching a research class. I did not ask for "hand-holding". I asked for constructive feedback to research topics posed to the mentors. Nothing of value was returned.

There is a difference between "hand-holding" and active mentorship. I was expecting the latter during the one time in my NCU program where I needed the additional assistance. Unfortunately, the active mentorship was nowhere to be found in my case.

The issues raised during the HLC visit are being addressed by NCU. Unfortunately, NCU's actions are a bit late for those of us negatively impacted by those issues.

NCU's marketing and Learner guides state "As a matter of policy, faculty mentors are required to maintain frequent and active contact with Learners." Emphasis on "required". Emphasis on "frequent and active". Northcentral University did not enforce their own mentor participation policies, to my academic detriment.

The main point of this ripoffreport is holding NCU accountable for their lack of corrective action in a situation where they should have taken it. NCU has the ability and moral obligation to correct this situation, yet choses not to.

A secondary point is more of a question for a prospective student. Do you want to invest a significant amount of time and money in a program that has had problems in the past? NCU talks about change, but is that an honest undertaking or just lip service?

We can learn a lot from complaints. I suspect that Northcentral invest a lot of time trying to cover up their problems rather than face them. This organization could make a great case example for unethical business practices. It is ironic that it is a primarily a graduate business school. It is apparent they have serious governance problems. I am sorry to hear about your situation. Is there an independent site somewhere exclusively devoted to follow up action on Northcentral University? Have there been investigations by government bodies and other regulatory organizations into alleged unethical and illegal behavior? What is the status of any legal and court cases completed or outstanding? These rip-off sites are somewhat helpful but it seems more like Northcentral tries to use them as marketing campaigns to avoid revealing these situations. This is the typical criminal behavior of those who try to cover up their misbehaviors. Northcentral will not be the first example but apparently they have not learned to just do the right thing. Thanks again for sharing and good luck with your follow up action.

"Full Teaching In Academia" has knowledge of other posts that were taken off the web about a year ago.  Here's a summary of the story and outcome.

I sued the instructor in small claims court in my home state (KS), although he lives on the east coast and NCU in Arizona.  The premise of the lawsuit was non-performance of a contract.  NCU's student guide spells out the responsibilities of the Mentor in detail and was used during the case as the minimum standard for the Mentor's participation as a research class instructor.  The NCU Student Guide spells out an explicit Mentor-Student learning contract.  Apparently, the learning contract is not a binding contract <smile>.

An interesting part of the case involved establishing local jurisdiction.  There is a precedent that I cited of Compuserve vs. Patterson that allowed my county court to establish jurisdiction over the lawsuit.  I won that point, which should be good news to anyone else who seeks relief from any Internet-based school.  Yes, you can use your local courts, even if you sue the university, giving you a home field advantage.

After the instructor and I gave our presentations and rebuttal, the judge sat for what seemed an unusually long time in silence.  Outcome: judgment for the instructor.  The judge said that I did not have an explicit contract with the instructor, and that my contract was with NCU instead.  The instructor countersued, which was dismissed by the judge.

Summary: the judge found for the instructor on the original lawsuit, for me on the countersuit and was so moved by the instructor's testimony that she awarded no money to the instructor for expenses.

The instructor later sent a threatening letter asking for a $1,040 expense reimbursement.  I responded that there is a section on the outcome document for reimbursement of expenses back to the defendant, and that the court chose not to award him anything.  I haven't heard from him since.

The "court 101 class" cost me about $64, including filing, summons & postage.  The instructor is out $1,040 minus his portion of the original class cost of $600.  It appears that he is no longer teaching research classes (RSH) at NCU as well.

In the time since, NCU has been bought by Rockbridge Growth Equity, a private equity investment group with holdings in financial services, consumer-direct marketing, sports and entertainment holdings.  Really adds a punch to the For-Profit nature of NCU.  Dean Turner is no longer Dean over the Business Admin school, good news for everyone.  Title IV is back, which is a good thing since the tuition has skyrocketed to approx. $32k for a business admin PhD now.  Yikes.

I'm graduating this December from another school and applying to start yet another degree in mid-2010.  There were a number of us that raised quality issues at NCU only to have our words fall on deaf ears, with punitive outcomes as a result.  Rockbridge would do well to review these cases, and offer some good will where warranted.  Not that I would want to ruin my reputation in academia by holding an NCU degree... <wink>

 

I am a professor with a Masters and a Juris Doctor. For teaching purposes I would like to also earn a PHD. I must take the PHD at an online university. I am considering Northcentral along with a couple of other schools. I am considering Northcentral because I really like the program, they are regionally accredited and the program is affordable. The main reason that I am still undetermined at this point is the fact that NCU's regional accreditation has only been extended for 3 years.  Here are my questions:

1. Since NCU has only had accreditation extended by HLC for a period of three years, what assurances can NCU give us that they will be accredited again?

2. What would happen in the worse case scenario where a student begins a degree while NCU is HLC accredited and the school is no longer HLC accredited when the degree is granted?

3. Can NCU offer any type of assurances to students by way of confirming that their work could be transferred to an accredited institution in the event that the  HLC refuses to renew accrediation?

4. Some writers state that NCU is really a correspondence school rather than online. What assurances can applicants receive to show that the school is actually online and that all work can be done online?

5. Does the parent company of NCU have sound financial stability? If so, how an we receive proof of the sound financial stability of the company?

6. What would happen to tuition and credits earned in the event that Northcentral went out of business?

7. Could potential students receive anything in writing from either NCU or HLC to give the student assurance that the decision to attend NCU is a solid decision due to written assurances that would kick in should NCU not be able to receive HLC accreditation at the time of next review?

8. What is the next date for review of NCU by HLC?

9. Can NCU or HLC  provide any insurances that NCU has complied with all HLC requests for improvement so far?

As you can see, the questions I have listed above are questions that any potential student would want to have answered prior to entering NCU.

Thank you very much.

 

>>> 1. Since NCU has only had accreditation extended by HLC for a period of three years, what assurances can NCU give us that they will be accredited again?

There are no guarantees.  NCU was acquired by Rockbridge Growth Equity in 2008.  After the Rockbridge purchase, NCU secured Title IV status for the 2nd time in its history.  A new diversified $150+ million corporate sugar daddy and federal loans for the students.  My crystal ball says that NCU will remain accredited after the next HLC review in 2011.

About Rockbridge Growth Equity LLC:
Rockbridge Growth Equity is a Livonia, Mich.-based private equity group that invests in growing businesses in the financial services, Internet technology, consumer direct marketing, and sports and entertainment sectors.


>>> 2. What would happen in the worse case scenario where a student begins a degree while NCU is HLC accredited and the school is no longer HLC accredited when the degree is granted?

The student earned a non-accredited degree.  

In another scenario, say you graduate while the school is accredited, then later the school becomes unaccredited.  The degree will still be accredited, but a prospective employer may research the school and assume that your degree isn't accredited.  You'll have to make the effort to educate the employer.  Even more effort if you are looking for work in academia.

Does the lack of any significant entrance criteria bother anyone?  Sure, the admissions team says, come right in and start classes at a couple of thousand dollars a pop.  If you don't want to continue or can't pass the classes because you weren't qualified to even start the program, you can disenroll anytime you like.  Did you know that there's a fee to disenroll from the college?  Yikes.


>>> 3. Can NCU offer any type of assurances to students by way of confirming that their work could be transferred to an accredited institution in the event that the  HLC refuses to renew accrediation?

An assurance is only as good as the person/company making it.  When the person/company is gone, what assurance would you have that the assurance is still valid?  This is a very strange question coming from a JD.

Switching to transfer credit discussion.  During my post-NCU experiences, I approached all current (as of May 2008) online-only schools with doctoral programs asking about transfer credit.  I have 32 hours (8 classes) of NCU credit at the doctoral level, nearly all "A"s.  The answers ranged from no transfer credit accepted to 2 classes transferred at most.  No transfer credit was the most frequent answer.  The schools all listed that they accept transfer credit.  When you drill down into the details, they are usually referring to the master's degree credits (usually 30 to 36).  Nearly all say that their doctoral programs "includes" the master's degree as part of the credits required to graduate with a doctorate.  Transfer credit equates to lost revenue for a for-profit businesses like NCU, TUIU, Phoenix and Capella.


>>> 4. Some writers state that NCU is really a correspondence school rather than online. What assurances can applicants receive to show that the school is actually online and that all work can be done online?

I can attest that the school is a correspondence school, based on the work that I did for 8 classes.  And that all work can be done online, 100%.  Therefore, NCU is an online correspondence school.  The correspondence aspect is due to a lack of mentor interaction with the students.  You are there to read a book, work some problems or write a few papers, and submit them electronically to a poorly constructed student portal.  The old-school correspondence postal service mail has been replaced by Al Gore's Internet. :-)  Except for vary rare cases, the mentor is only there to assign a grade.  If you expect mentor-student interaction outside of what I described, then NCU is not for you.


>>> 5. Does the parent company of NCU have sound financial stability? If so, how an we receive proof of the sound financial stability of the company?

Call or email Rockbridge asking for a prospectus.  Rockbridge is a private corporation though, so don't expect much.  There are public filings that a corporation must file with their home state.  You might be able to search for those docs.


>>> 6. What would happen to tuition and credits earned in the event that Northcentral went out of business?

My answers are based on direct experiences with a few companies that went bankrupt and closed their doors.  You would still have to pay off the student loans if you took them out to pay for tuition.  You would not receive any refunded tuition money from graded classes.  Any unused tuition that was pre-paid prior to the bankruptcy would probably not be recoverable.  There would be other debtors with a higher priority on getting their money back before you, if there was any left when the school closed.

Paying back the student loan, long after you leave NCU or if NCU went out of business just adds insult to injury.  People are too quick to take out student loans in the $30k+ range for a doctoral program without fully considering that 50 to 60% of those who start a doctoral program never finish.  I learned this the hard way when I was dismissed from NCU with an outstanding $9k Sallie Mae loan.  I will be finishing my doctorate at another university without taking any more student loans.


>>> 7. Could potential students receive anything in writing from either NCU or HLC to give the student assurance that the decision to attend NCU is a solid decision due to written assurances that would kick in should NCU not be able to receive HLC accreditation at the time of next review?

Good luck with that.  Refer back to 1st part of response for question 3 above.

>>> 8. What is the next date for review of NCU by HLC?

2011.  You can find this information, along with some outdated graduation statistics at the HLC website.

>>> 9. Can NCU or HLC  provide any insurances that NCU has complied with all HLC requests for improvement so far?

NCU is a for-profit company.  Owned by a for-profit corporation.  Common sense suggests that the marketing and admissions folks at NCU will say what they think is needed to get you to sign up for classes.  The only true test will be visible in 2011.

Additional thoughts:

I frequent discussion boards that discuss the pay scale for adjunct professors.  The teaching staff for the online for-profit businesses are mostly, if not all, adjunct instructors.  The pay scale of an adjunct professor is woefully low.  $50 per student per class in one example.  From my memory, there was no more than 2 other students besides myself for any of the classes I took.  No wonder my instructors didn't respond to email or provide insightful critiques of my work.  They weren't paid to.  They see $2000 charged for a class and they only get $50?  $50 for a 12 week class?  I'm not sure how much NCU adjunct instructors get, but I would wager that the amount is but a very small portion of the student fees.


Most important points to glean from this discussion

#1 - People are too quick to take out student loans in the $30k+ range for a doctoral program without fully considering that 50 to 60% of those who start a doctoral program never finish.  Student loans don't go away after exiting the program.  Debt without a diploma.  Congress should look further into the student loans vs graduation rates and see the sheer magnitude of the wasted money.  Especially for the for-profit businesses masquerading as schools.  Especially those selling the 100% online programs.

#2 - NCU is a for-profit subsidiary of a for-profit privately held corporation.  The focus is generating revenue, not generating graduates.  Graduates are just an infrequent consequence resulting from the revenue generating initiatives.  Ponder on that while reading major point #1 again.

What school did you transfer to and graduate from? I am at the last class/manuscript phase and NCU is screwing me around....something awful. I want to transfer schools but do not know where to go that I won't be totally starting the PhD degree over again. Please advise original poster.