National Income Life Insurance Company Of New York What to do? Pie in the sky crap or legit employment opportunity ? HELP! Rochester New York

Rip-off Report Investigation: American Income Life / National Income Life join Rip-off Report Corporate Advocacy Business Remediation & Customer Satisfaction Program and submit to independent investigation. American Income Life / National Income Life pledges to resolve all legitimate complaints and address any issues from the past, present and in the future. Waco Texas, Nationwide

Well you did not like me,
a member of the local 435 complaining to Bob Brown our Union business manager. Call me an ingrate if it makes you feel bigger, the n**i's had names for your type.
The fact remains that you ask our union members for free food for a food bank and tell them to call if you know someone that needs it when laid off or disabled.
One of your agents asked Tessa for me, to send me food, and I called Mike Nowak several times at the office and on his cell phone, no food or no cost accidental death benefits and after several months , two letters, two trips from your agents to our union hall after Bob Brown called you I finally got about $20.00 worth of food from your food bank while your company made about $100 million dollars off of us union brothers last year.
Was it too much to ask for my no cost accidental death benefits that I am entitled to? Why wouldn't they deliver it to me? Is the food bank empty? How about some more?
Want good press?
Impress me instead of calling me names for being disabled and bring me food while I'm disabled like you told my union brother while he gave your agent a big bag of food for your food bank.
Could it be because they knew I was disabled and probably could not afford your over priced whole life?
Is it because Jim finally admitted that nobody from your 3rd rate company can or will sell me accident insurance without the whole life that I can't afford?
Are you just worried about yout percentage you earn on your whole life sales?
Time, I have a lot of it, don't worry about my time, I would worry about recruiting your next sucker to do your dirty work.
Bob Brown is working on another problem from one of your insured who is paying about $70 month to NILICO now. Bob said you guys are scammers, do you think he'll sign the letter next year with no accidental benefits unless you are hospitalized over night? It did not sound that way to me.
It's amazing how much damage one lazy drunken insurance salesman with an attitude can do.
Close your doors, read the reports, change your names, it doesn't matter. The truth is the truth.
You can't hide it. You people brought it on yourselves so enjoy it.
After working with the carpenters union,electrical workers, and several other unions for as long as I have you can be sure I have time to write to their unions to let them know how you treated me. I'll make a Xerox copy of my union card along with my phone number and see if they know how the benefits best parts have been taken away from any new members thinking about enrolling with your benefits.
It was like pulling teeth to get that out of Jim who I understand took a 75% cut in pay since you stopped selling your accident benefits that paid for accidents at the emergency room and sent you home the same day.
Like I said before, not all union members are stupid, another friend of mine was a teacher with a masters degree. If your agents are so smart why were some of their licenses revoked before coming to work for your outstanding company?
Sticks and stones, bro.

To " Ha-Ha "

I see your point, people critizicing AIL instead of getting a new job.

Nevertheless, when things just go wrong as they do in life sometimes, something that you should never lose is your integrity.

Who cares about the Union Food bank really? oyu are right, but when for one reason or another a union member needs it, its certainly reasuring to know that there is a Food Bank so at least your kids go to school with something to eat.

It is obvious this is not your situation, but unfortunately it is not everyones' .

You have been smart and made your way through life - I imply by your comments - but you never know what might happen in the future, what goes around comes around, it is just a rule of life, so please keep those type of comments to yourself trying to attack people, remember when you were in AIL , you were inside those people's homes.

They might not have bought insurance from you, but they opened their home to you, imagine if those people that know you read the comments you put in here? Where is your integrity man??

Remember when you point your index finger at someone, you have 3 of your own pointing at you.

To " Ha-Ha "

I see your point, people critizicing AIL instead of getting a new job.

Nevertheless, when things just go wrong as they do in life sometimes, something that you should never lose is your integrity.

Who cares about the Union Food bank really? oyu are right, but when for one reason or another a union member needs it, its certainly reasuring to know that there is a Food Bank so at least your kids go to school with something to eat.

It is obvious this is not your situation, but unfortunately it is not everyones' .

You have been smart and made your way through life - I imply by your comments - but you never know what might happen in the future, what goes around comes around, it is just a rule of life, so please keep those type of comments to yourself trying to attack people, remember when you were in AIL , you were inside those people's homes.

They might not have bought insurance from you, but they opened their home to you, imagine if those people that know you read the comments you put in here? Where is your integrity man??

Remember when you point your index finger at someone, you have 3 of your own pointing at you.

To the people who have submitted "reports" under however many different names:
We all know who you are. Fine, you have negative feelongs, but why don't you take the time to find a new job instead of bad-mouthing the one you failed at. Yeah, Tom, you are a nice enough guy. But, seriously, have you not had enough?

And Brian Freeman from Ontario... you don't know anything about the company, so why all the **tching? Over some free food from a company that you didn't even buy from? The way you were talking to Matthew from PA, you sound like you'd be an ingrate anyway.

All of you..... there are many fast food restaurants out that there that will hire you. Why not quit your whining and get jobs like the rest of us? Seriously, do something...take a class in how to make complete sentences, thoughts, etc. Get over yourselves, for real.

Finally, Thank you Tim !

Thanks for telling me how it really is. How the hell did you survive there that long?
These con artists will all be looking for work soon. These morons make it all that harder for the legitimate companies out there that are not scared to pay their people. Can you imagine a big fat Jewish guy sitting at your kitchen table on Christmas eve trying to force feed you a WL policy? UNBELIEVABLE!
In my research, I've come to the conclusion that AIL, NILICO, Combined, AFLAC, Primerica, are all impostors skating on thin ice. They'll all be kicked out of NY soon enough.
Thank you for saving me (and hopefully a lot others) a lot of time and headaches. WHAT A SCAM!

I worked there as a 1099 contract non employee for about 3 years, probably the longest career agent not in management. I don't any longer. Hard work? yes, 7 nights a week for the entire time I worked there? Yes, plus Holidays.

I am surprised that nobody mentioned the Holiday work. You also have to be in the office every Monday to copy and have day work in addition to the evenings, paperwork checked and turned in. You have to go in every Thursday for their cheerleading meeting where the unsure are reassured and hear tall tales of big money that one in a million see.

It is a cult like atmosphere where everyone must clap hands when bonus and bucket chects are passed out. It is hard to do without laughing out loud. After all I earned the money they did not give it to me. There was one Jewish manager that bragged about writing business on Christmas. Mr. Oldhams theory is get them when they are home, you are only going to bother them for a few minutes and he is such a nice guy he won't force an agent to write business on Christmas or Easter.

You can if you choose. It is just more money in your check. I usually worked from Saturday about 7:30 AM until 9:00 PM. Sometimes when their numbers were real bad they would force you to turn in paperwork three times per week. 80-90 hours a week is average.

Sure the hiring managers will tell you stories like hit your numbers by Thursday and take the rest of the week off. I never saw that happen. When they pay you they only advance you 65% of the commision and make you wait 8-9 months to see what percentage if any you will get later. Most agents got none later.

The reason that you see 93% negative is simple, 93% of their revolving door system is not happy with what was promised them in their hiring group interviews and in comparison of the actual job they went into. If 93% were happy they would be writing in.

The hiring managers make false names and write good things because they are trying to hit their mandatory four new hires per week. They have less agents now than they did a year ago. Reality they can't handle. The stories of promotions, transfers from imaginary names like Matthew were another trick they played on new hires to make them think that advancement was all around and great oppurtunity.

In reality they usually quit after realizing they no longer had a life and spent as much as they earned in income. I was a convention winner that usually bonused and still had little left after my expenses. You need to net 6,200 Annual Life Premium per month to make bonus.

That is not too hard if you have the skill except for the fact that they recently stopped selling the accident benefit that paid a flat rate of $200 for any accident or injury on any of the union members family at home, work or school.

When we had the union members fill out the officers report form about 95% of the union members wrote down that the main reason they bought the policies were because of that part of the policy that sounded easy to get back $200 at least a couple times per year when any family member was treated by any docor, chiropractor,hospital, eye doctor for any accident or injury where you were treated and released the same day.

That benefit now pays nothing. I can't morally sell that product. If you are admitted it doubled $400 per night if you were admitted over night. Without a doubt the WL and term is very expensive. Their national retention rate used to be about 65% but my prediction now that the best part has been taken away it will drop to about 35%. Just my guess.Everyone that left was not lazy, pot smoking, whiners, they were guys that the hiring managers thought had potential.

Does working every Sunday night burn guys out? YES. You are a captive agent that can't sell anything else. Swim or sink. You start out at 65% of 40% ALP for the first 10,000 of busines, then 65% of 50% until your first anniversary then 65% of 52.5%.

You can do a lot better at many Agencies. You can use your current license to get your brokers license for a small fee on line at the NYS Insurance Department website. Ask to read the contract. Almost everything I earned I spent in expenses. If your numbers are good enough you may qualify for up to $240 per month for family health insurance or less if you are single.

You are encouraged strongly to contribute to the Democrat Party and forced to pay union dues with no union benefits. There are no union stewards, grievance forms, contact numbers or addresses. You also get a $10,000 life policy after being there long enough.

If you ask about the union you will get a final warning for being negative. The leads are all cold. They have all been seen at least twice per year. They either bought it or don't want it. You may occasionally change someones mind but more unlikely now since the benefits were reduced. They only signed up about 10% of the unions in NYS and lost several of those for good and warned the others not to sign up and avoid the complaints and problems.

I watched hundres if not thousands go through these revolving doors. The funniest part to me is the final warning about non compete when you leave. The reason being that they hire as many agents they can from Combined Life Insurance Company and send them out to see their customers and try to get them to replace the policies they sold them originally, and of coarse make them sign a form saying they are not replacing a policy with another.

I also went months at a time with no leads. At the same time leads were given to new hires. They are supposed to hire at least 4 new people per week yet have a smaller sales force than they did a year ago. My advice get your brokers license and look out for yourself.

Before you decide call Mark Colbert (private Investigator) who is investigating these people. You can find his web site at markcolbert*com or 209-357-3423 for an independent guy that watches over many insurance companies. Good Luck and have a nice day.

Thank you Matthew I'm from Rochester, NY and started this thread over the frustration of not getting my answers to questions and phone calls returned. I'd love for you to show me how I can earn a steady high 5 figure income with NILICO.
Being as you said you are not a party to any of my concerns so you would have nothing to lose to help me get a clear picture of this company confidentially, so here goes.

1.) Why 93% negative comments about NILICO and AIL on this forum without enough rebuttals in defense of? and please no sugar coating candy a*s reply like every company has their disgruntled and everyone complaining are lazy, because it obviously goes way beyond that now.
2.) I'm already licensed and have in house life insurance sales experience. If my first day with NILICO was on April 1, when would I have my first real paycheck in my hand? NO BS
3.) I'll work 80 hours if it's going to be profitable for me. What is a new to NILICO but experieced agents NET income after mileage, gas, hotel, meals, supplies, bottles of Motrin etc. every week on average NOT counting averaging in this so called future bucket money crap that 99% of agents never get. I want to know about average weekly NET pay before bucket money or before ANY bonus money factored in for a person who has insurance sales experience and is not afraid of work NO BS. You nentioned that yep this is hard work but is the "hard" the driving and paying $2.09 for a gallon of gas? Is the "hard" mostly mental?
4.) What is your defenition of 1099 independent contractor and W-2 employee status and let's see if it jives with mine and the IRS defenitions. If I make the time commitment during the week and I'm bringing in business what's the deal with working Sunday night? Because I would have a huge problem with that. Some hours of the week are off limits to many people with families and Sunday nights are just some of those hours.
5.) If your from Rochester, NY I assume you began there with Oldham and did well enough to get promoted or whatever. What's the real deal with this agency? Why has it been weeks and no one has returned my calls? Why are they constantly running ads on career builder and monster?
6.) I want to see actual 1099's and lead reports. Will I also be able to speak to my Union person? If not why the hell not? What are these union dues ayway and how do they protect me?

If I can get some satisfaction from all of these questions with NO BS, then I will contact Jim Bianchi again to schedule another meeting.

Thank you,

What are you upset about? Because a union guy knows more about your non job than you do. I'll try try to spoon feed it to you since you seem slow.

1.1099= non employee contract worker woth no 401K, no pension, no annuities, in your case all of that was traded for a carrot of possible lifetime renewals after 10 years should you be the 1 out of a million that make it that far. You get to write off your losses if you are smart enough. Schedule C on your taxes if you file them.

2. W-2 = employee with all benefits like 401K, retirement, pensions, annuities, things most union brothers get. Can't use the schedule C.
3. W-2 Statutory= employee with 401K, retirement, pensions, annuities, renewals, trails, and the write offs on your expenses like your 1099.

As far as the bait you fell for, it sounds your your dead union member spent extra money for your over priced extra benefits that can be beat by any major Insurance Company and most of the lower rated ones as well. He probably did that because he trusted his union official that signed his letter like Bob Brown from the Local 435 who now calls you "scammers". His words. He is the business manager who signed the letter inviting National Income into our doors. It will intersting to see if he signs next time. Anyone with a brain in their head knows that they can go on line and buy Insurance for 10-100X less. So had your guy spent his insurance allowance smarter, his family would have much more money today to live on pay off their debts. Look your own age, sex, habbits, medical history up in your rate book for WL or term and go to selectquot*.com and see for yourself, there are dozens of these types of web sites that will destroy your costs of "EXTRA" insurance that you try to sucker union members into buying under the guise of being my union member. The scammers in NY took away the best part of their benefits last year the $200 accidental benefit that the old members were allowed to buy. Lets review, any one in the union household would get a flat rate of $200 everytime any member of the house had an accident or injury where treated by a doctor, hospital,dentist, chiropractor. Those benefits are gone!!!!! Nobody in any union in NY can now buy that benefit and the unions who signed the letters were not notified. Things they used to pay $200 for included things like, bee sting reactions, slips and falls, back injuries, metal in the eye, sports injuries, 4 wheeler injuries, snowmobile accidents, car accidents, motorcycle accident, broken arms, legs, noses, etc.etc. GET IT? LOTS of things. Do you know what their current program pays for these accidents? ZERO, nada, nothing..... I can't wait to see how NEW YORK STATE rules on this. They are investigating them now!

In addition to having a bad attitude, apparently you cant read either, Brian. I wasn't talking about the $2k, I was talking about the "additional scam benefits" you and your team of whiners like to scream about.

So you miss the point, and have no real knowledge of what's going on, and have no real response. So you decide to dazzle the people here and try to discredit me with a rediculous variety of tax terms? Nice job, buddy.

However, you do seem awfully defensive of the pizza delivery trade. Perhaps that is where your real talents lie. By the way, I am from Rochester, so I know perfectly well what a cremation costs there as well.

The real insurance industry? Who would this be, genius? Exactly what in your extensive experience has you thinking that you know who or what "the real insurance industry" is? I get real benefits, real write-offs and the piece of mind knowing that I help people everyday. You can't even figure out who is in your union or not (see above).

The only thing that you did well in your response was avoid the issue here. The original article was written by a guy who wanted to hear some thoughts on NILICO/AIL. God forgid anyone disagree with you Brian. And if they do, you will retort with some sort of juvenile attempt at slander. ALL OF THIS ON A TOPIC YOU HAVE NO DIRECT KNOWLEDGE OF!!! You speak of our work practices as if you know. You talk like you have worked for the company, when in reality you have not. You speak like you have "inside knowledge" of what goes on. You act fit to give advice to others on something you have marginal contact with at best. In all truth, you know nothing. All you had a bad experience. Sorry about that, but chances are good this isn't the first ot last time that is gonna happen. Get over yourself. Have a nice day, dude. Smile, and stick to what you are good at.

Wowee, you bought a turkey for a stranger, did you write it off on your schedule C on your 1099?
Oh yes never a denied claim, they are all whiners and complainers. Got it. Did you ask that widow just how she intended to spend her $2,000 no cost accidental death benefit? How much does it cost for a cremation in your area? Thank God you helped pay for it! W-2, 1099, how about W-2 Stautory? Ever heard of that one ? You get real benefits and write offs. 401K, pension, retirement, things you will never see. I'm sure you could earn at least $100 million per year but in reality if you are doing good, you may net $20,000 where you are. A good pizza delivery man makes more than you. If you are happy where you are, please stay there, the real insurance world doesn't need you. I'm sure you have never heard of the million dollar round table.

Well Ray, or who ever you really are, I did not get that conferance call I challenged you with. As I suspected just another come back from a salesman. Had you spoken to Bob Brown the business manager from the 435 who signed our letter he could have told you that he in fact has proof in his hands. Smoke and mirrors can't hide the bologna from the Local 277 with no local union hall. No accountability, looked for them in the phone book and guess what? They are not listed. When I called the local National Outcome office at 585-292-9610 and asked for the business manager from their Local 277 they told me they don't have one. I asked for the shop steward and they said they did not have one of those either. What kind of union is that? Some union brothers. No other complaints? Funny I know 2 guys who dropped their benefits after not getting paid and one who is going to drop because they keep calling him on Sunday nights after he told them many times not to. A friend of mine in the SEIU 200 a (Prison Guard) from a huge union who works at the Batavia Federal Detention Center told me that they had so many complaints that their union told National Outcome not to contact any more of their union members or they will be sued!!! Yes one of the biggest unions in the State, The Service Employees International Union (12,000 members strong) thought they were scammers too!!!! Rochester office 585-464-8880. I'm sure Little Jim and his posse have come backs for that one too. If you only want to hear the story. That is the real question.

Exactly how much proof are you looking for? I have been an employee of this company for over 1 1/2 years. I made more money in that amount of time than I had made in the previous 3 years with other companies. My background is all sales. I have sold a variety of other products, and this company stands by its product and customer FAR BETTER than any I have other worked for. One thing in common with all of these upset, whining people is that they are failures. They speak like failures, write like failures, and feel as though somone else is to blame for eveything.

Is this hard work? Yep. No doubt about it. However, simple logic should tell you that rewards only come with hard work and effort. In fact, if it were easy AND ultra-rewarding, then something would probably be wrong. All good things require effort.

As far as the scam goes? I have also personally delivered food to families who were laid off, or where the primary bread-winner was hurt and unable to work. I have also paid OUT OF POCKET to buy a needy family a turkey for Thanksgiving. Tell me now, how many of you rediculous, self-rightous, egocentric writers have done something like to help out someone you just met. I have helped our clients file claims so that they are paid in a timely fashion; AND THE CLAIMS ARE PAID!!!! Speaking of claims being paid, you will get a real taste of reality if you ever have to help a grieving widow file a claim after her 33 year old husband was killed in a car accident. After you have helped her, she thanks God for sending you to their house because this was the only insurance that the family had. Why don't you call her and tell her this is a scam.

They lie in the interview? Really. Perhaps you weren't paying attention when they told you in the 2nd intvw that you would drive, you would have to pay for your license, you would not be paid for training, AND THAT YOU WOULD WORK YOUR A$$ OFF for as big of a piece of the pie as you wanted. No one is confused about these things when the leave the interviews here. If these were problems for you, then you have an obligation to yourself and to the company not to waste anyones time.

They over-state the earning potential? Okay, so you didn't want to work very hard, you spent your time harvesting negativity about the company and product, and you are upset because they didn't jump through enough hoops to win your heart completely. Wake up guys, this is still a business. And if you take direction well and use the programs they tell you to musch of this could have been avoided. How are you doing at your new jobs? Are your new employers doing everything that you wanted them to do for you? Or, are you busy typing up a report like this on that company as well. If you get really bored with this, maybe you could go to work for a change. And futhermore, I would challenge any of you who are complaining about this to compare your W2 or 1099 to mine, or any of the people that I have trained. Let me show you how this works for me and the other people that I work with. I don't own the company, and I have no reason to lie to you. And I would be happy to set a meeting with any of you to show you how it COULD work for you as well.

That is why he did not call you back. And he won't. He is afraid you may have a brain and ask questions. If that is the case why waste time on you? If pot smoking is such a problem at National Outcome why not use drug tests? If Lee smoked pot everyday for 9 months why wasn't it noticed earlier? How did he manage to bonus the times that he did. Lee's boss is a hard core alcoholic that thinks and praises adult beverages and maintains a 65% retention rate. Blackouts prevent him from returning calls. A leader? Jim's number one guy that caused all the trouble with the local 435? Do you want a drunk in your home. He is the same one who did not return Brian's calls from the Local 435. If Lee was so bad why didn't they fire him? If he was so bad why did they hire him and two of his friends later that they hoped to emulate him? He had the balls to stand up to Jim, tell him the job was bullsh*t and move on to a much higher paying job where he was drug tested and passed. He gets a regular paycheck plus bonus now and works in Rochester saving him another $100 per week on gas. It is so easy to look at all the negatives and find fault or blame for them when it is the system and the leader that is broken, not the poor fools who took the bait. Lee lasted longer than most, about 9 months. He should get a purple heart and two Bronze stars for the two people he brought in and handed over to a young drunken childish manager. Instead they would not even have the decency to write a letter of recommendation as they promised and now bash him behind his back. While he was there they kept saying what a great job he was doing. One of Lee's personnal recruits named Ron, Jim talked into quitting College on his last semester to grab this "oppurtunity unlimited" before it was taken by someone else. Only a heartless, cruel s****.>

It's been a few weeks now since I posted the original for this thread. I wanted to read some of the responses that came in before making my final post on this. It seems that some have made it and a lot haven't. Those who have not have similar gripes which raises red flags to those who are seriously considering employment with this company.

I feel Mr. Oldham or Jim Bianchi needs to set the deal straight in a rebuttal on this forum if they want any hope for their future recruiting efforts. They must fully realize there's a Ripoff report by now. Is this why there is 3 interviews? so that they hope you find Ripoff report before the 3rd interview?

This is what I'm looking to find out before contacting Jim Bianchi again........

What are the d**n hours? If I'm a 1099 independent contractor NO ONE will tell me when or where I have to be. THIS IS COMMON SENSE!!! If they bribe you with these union leads in exchange for your time and expense, they would have to prove to me that these d**n leads are solid and have not been already worked. This 80 hour 7 days a week BS are for people that have no life. What do the union dues you pay do for you? I would want to speak with the union steward before accepting a job with NILICO.
If they were hiring experienced agents who can close, what takes these morons they hire 80 hours, can take someone who can actually tie their shoes 20-30 hours and they would be more productive. They hire unlicensed people with no sales experience and burn them out in 2 weeks. Or is the actual work 20 hours and the other 60 hours driving around all day? Is that the deal Mr. Oldham?

The people who are claiming that they are making money. Just shut the F... up and offer to SHOW me the proof in your pay stubs or 1099's. Also SHOW me your day planner, proof of quantity of leads received and when received along with mileage and ALL expense records for the last month. If you can not offer to show me these things then you've got something to hide PERIOD and don't even respond.
Anyone can make $2,000 a week but if you're spending $1,950 what the F... is that? Does Mr. Oldham know what a gallon of gas costs today? or has he been hiding under a rock?

Bottom line .. If this was legit, there would be more people defending the company and I just don't see it. Instead it's the opposite.

NY State will soon catch on to what I truly believe is now a clever scam. Enjoy yourself right now Mr. Oldham, when NY State shuts you down and you can no longer hide behind American Income Life's AM Best rating, then all the unsuspecting unemployed fools who bought all your garbage will have the last laugh, especially if you and your clan are jailed for fraud.

Again don't defend this company or how much you make without first providing a way to offer the proof.

That is funny as hell. LEE posts on here, one of the laziest pot smokers ever, rarely worked, was given numerous opportunities, and more chances than he deserved... There are tons of people in the company that make great money, and are very honest and forthcoming. I read somewhere that the food bank is BS, thats funny, I have delivered food personally to UFCW workers from Empire Beef and Zweigles, 3 CWA members, and a Local 13 plumber. The ex employees on here were whining fat bastards. Ya I know who you are. Go to Met life and list 200 friends and family members, see how fun that is. You get leads from the company, you work referrals, you put in your time and you will make a lot of money. The A+ superiour ranking from AM BEST says it all. So whine and cry on here all the time you poor unfortunate souls. Put in your 40 hours a week making 30k/year. I did that, it sucked, now I write my own paycheck. Why dont you guys set up a time to sit with Durhon... I would love to be a fly on the wall during that conversation.

Yo Dude, it is brown eye pie, it smells bad don't eat it. I ate that nasty pie for too long. Jim will say anything to anyone and smile while he saying it. Never any truth to any of it. Any good stuff on these sites are written by current (hiring managers). They used to write them when they had no leads to call. It was called practicing your come backs. Jim said never answer a question directly but always answer it in a way to confuse and move to the next positive selling point. I hear his pay has dropped 75% since most of his team has quit and he can't replace them fast enough. Be glad you read this before you went to your 3rd meeting. If you would have gone you would have been "hired" into a job you wished you had not. I believed them in the beginning and gave it my best but in the end they would not even take 5 minutes to write me a letter of recommendation they promised me several times even after I left on good terms and brought them two friends to try as well. They both regret it now. They got mad at me for bringing them in. One of them got fired after taking time off for his fathers funeral. How cold is that. Everyone hated Jim after that. Out of the 6 dudes my manager had just a few months ago, they are all gone now. Are we all failures? Or was that the plan? Most of the few leads I did get were seen two weeks before by someone else. I drove from Buffalo to Pa. and everywhere in between. No work in Rochester like they originally promised. I was lucky to make enough to put gas in my car and I did better than most. I was a senior guy with about 9 months. I saw hundreds come and go. It's a revolving door. Dude what kind of place is that?

ha ha, I have plenty of teeth. wonder how many the "union members" that you take advantage of, opps, I mean you enroll in these exclusive union member only benefits. I wasn't crazy enough to stick around too long. that "job" was sick man. they run you completely ragged. a couple other guys I know tried it, but had the sense to leave fast. didn't mean they "weren't good enough", just smarter to look for something more legit. the whole co seems like a scam. totally appreciate my job now. thanks NILICO and good luck to the remaining "union enrollment officers". WHAT????

ps my clients all have teeth!(and bank accounts)

Ray,
You claim to be my union rep? What is your title at the 435? You say you called me? What is your phone number? If you work for my local 435 let's do a conferance call with me and Bob Brown the one I sent the letters to including the proof that I enclosed with his mail that I have a copy of and that I spoke to. Before calling or writing Bob Brown I called Mike Nowak for several months at his office and on his cell. He never got back to me.

The message on my recorder said that Mr. Nowak came down to the hall to try to patch this up, and that he wanted me to come down to be recorded. Then after Bob Brown told me these guys were scammers I had no reason to doubt him. If you work for the 435 you should know that. Bob has the letters and called them on my behalf. The only calls I got from National Outcome were after Bob Brown spoke to them. They were from Jim Bianchi who called about 4 days in a row while my parents were in the hospital after a serious car accident.

All of a sudden it was important! He had me call on his cell since his operator would not forward the calls to Mr. Oldham or Mr. Nowak as many times as I called. He offered to send this slug to my home after not returning my calls for months and I declined.

I told him to send someone more reliable. He claimed Mike Nowak was his number one man so I said send number two, Rich Rothchild he said is number two in that agency. It wouldn't take much to beat number one just return your calls or follow up on your promises.

After asking Jim at least 5 times he finally admitted that nobody from his company can sell the accidental family benefits that the other union guys got last year that pays $200 per accident. So all the smoke and mirrors and name calling can't change that.

That benefit is gone from NY. My union brother that I go to my union meetings with used his twice last year, once when he hurt his back and once when his child was injured playing sports in school. He got $400 and I can't get anything. Fair? Union like? I don't think so.

As I explained to Jim I plan on being cremated and had no use for their very expensive funeral benefit. I could see using the accident policy that they no longer offer the union members. It seems odd that you would respond to me in this rip off area without first calling me at home, Bob has my number.

I hope to see you at the next union meeting, introduce yourself, Bob knows me. I've been paying my union dues there for 15 years.I think it will be a great topic to discuss there so everyone knows about the changes at National Outcome.

Okay, I am a NON EMPLOYEE Everyone knows who the 2 people are who are bad-mouthing NILICO, and everyone knows that they should stop focusing on this, and put more time into putting what teeth they do have their teeth back in their mouths. NILICO is above them. They were not good enough. Get over it and go to state fairgrounds, where you belong.

From one of the Local 435 officers referred to in an earlier correspondence.
I can't comment on working for National Income Life Insurance Company (NILICO). To be honest, insurance companies & any type of salesperson are not my favorite. I'm glad I never had to do sales for a living. I do know 1 thing, there are disgruntled employees in all industries.

However I can comment the relationship between Local 435 & NILICO. "Brian from Ontario" is the only member I know who is upset with NILICO. I have talked with him & I feel he has a ligitimate gripe if no one has returned his calls. I tried calling Brian while I had a representitive from NILICO in my office, but could not reach him. Incidentally, it was not Mike Nowak & we did not have a tape recorder. I have no "proof" in my hands either. In sales you're bound to have a few disgruntled consumers, & some sales people have a tendency to be a little pushy. That's my pet peve with sales people in general.

After dealing with NILICO for about 4 years I find them to be an above board company & very generous to the community. Like I said, I have only heard 1 complaint about them, & that's after dealing with them for 4 years. Also remember, there are 2 sides to every story. If you need or want information about insurance, give them a chance.

Your comments make me laugh. First of all, if you understand the Rochester office or any (AIL) office you would know that the only employees are the few office girls making little more than minimum wage and are W-2 employees. They care about their job about as much as they should be expected to earning such little income. I've seen them crying because they don't earn enough to pay their rent and the SGA asked the agents to donate money to them. The same guy who brags about earning 4 million per year. They make more than a lot of the enrollment officers (1099 self employeed contact licensed sales agents). So how could you or any other agent be an employee. You were not and neither was I. Maybe rip off should add a catagory to better explain this. Half of the interview process is to trick you into believing that you get a job after your group interview because that is what you were looking for. They painted the picture and you believed it.If you believe that look at the local paper and look at their permanant help wanted ad that says you can earn $60,000-$90,000 per year. That may be true, someone may have done that. 99% DO NOT COME CLOSE. 9% last one year. Now subtract your expenses for gas, motels, food on the road, wear and tear on your car. Of the very few that last a year ask one and you will find out that he probably put 50,000 miles on his car that does wonders on its value and repair bills, tires, brakes, etc. Don't forget you have to subtract your own taxes, no IRA offered, no pension, retirement,all renewals are held for at least 6 months after leaving your contract during which time they go down in size as the business falls off leaving you usually owing the company you thought you were an employee of. I would love to know what friends you keep in touch with there since they only have 2 or 3 agents there over 2 years that are not in management. Even the managers wisper "don't join management" Why they are still there nobody knows. Most of them probably owe more than their bucket is worth. A lot of them have a 65% retention rate. I've seen some with less than a 50% retention rate. Does wonders on your paycheck. Would you look up to someone with a 65% retention rate? They surely are not making $90,000, I know every one of them. Management used to show all agents how much each agent earned each week when things were new and not so bad. As you know they stopped doing that when they moved their office. Around the time they stopped offering the $200 per accident benefit that paid for emergencies that did not require hospitalization, like broken legs, arms, noses,fingers, toes, broken teeth,metal in the eye, twisted ankles, bee sting reactions,stitches, back injuries,car accidents, 4 wheeler and snowmobile accidents, etc. Remember there are only 2 ways to collect on the current benefits they offer. 1. DIE 2. have an accident or injury so severe that the hospital will not allow you to be released, you must be admitted overnight. The 4 new agents they must hire each week might think it was negative to see a women with 2 years earning zero dollars many weeks and not unusual to earn between $100-$200 per week, sharing apartments, borrowing money to pay rent. Not just her but a lot of the men are going broke there as well. Always hoping for that big week, kind of like a gambler who thinks he is going to beat the casino. (Sound like the SGA)? If you have been there too long go to POS and run referrals or quit. See ya Later, What was that guys name again? Why do they hold those bucket checks for 7-8 months again? What percentage of non employee 1099 contractors last that long? Who keeps the bucket money when you leave before that time. Oh, the the guys at the top of the pyramid? If you are a big gambler and don't need regular income, don't mind working 80-90 hours a week and bothering good people on Sundays when they are home with their families enjoying a life, take the gamble. I'll bet you LOSE. Any potential prospect that researches these many similar postings from every State and thinks the positive ones are not really desperate recruiters really should think about red flags or sludgehammers, which works for you? There are more red flags on these 2 companies (both owned by Torchmark) than any insurance company I have researched.

American Income Life is their 'sister' company. You will find more of their deception looking up that company.

American Income Life claims their leads are mostly from their 'Union Brothers'. But as I discovered today, they do not even write the union policy. However, their website still claims:

"AIL and NILICO continue to offer their Accidental Death and Dismemberment program at no cost to the union members. In the past 10 years, this benefit has proven its worth time and time again.

In 2004 alone, over $1.5 million was paid out nationally through the AD&D program. With more than eight million members covered in 2004, an impressive $8 billion of group AD&D insurance is being provided at no cost."

Well I do not know how either company can claim that policy, as it is written by Union Labor Life, and underwritten by "The Hartford".

Now this is only one of their lies about their business.......

Imagine working 2 hours a day or 2 days a week. Imagine $60K-$90K a year. Imagine working 7 nights a week and 3 days a week for as long as you are there. Imagine most guys making less than $30K and destroying their car with 50,000 miles in a year. Imagine a world of Jim's make believe. Imagine 100 leads to start and having a great month and bonus if you have any ability.Imagine your 26 yr old manager telling you he will get you those promised leads.Imagine them not coming.Imagine him asking why didn't you replace your leads with referrals.Imagine a real insurance company having group interviews hoping to fool 4/40.

Imagine an insurance company with 55 agents needing to hire at least 4 new ones each week.Imagine an insurance co.with less agents than last year and 3 with over 2 years not in management.I Imagine John is really a hiring recruiter, looking for a desperate guy with a big Imagination named Jim!!!

Anyone who has worked there will tell you this is crap. Free union leads every 2 weeks? Which unions? Any in Rochester? Do you mind driving to Buffalo everyday? Have they ever lost a union like the SEIU 200 State Employees union or the Nurses Association or problems with the UAW, or the local 435? 11% union penetration, why won't the other 89% sign up? Do you have to lie and mis lead people to make a living there? Would that bother you? Are you good at lying? Do you enjoy lying? How do you feel about working 7 nights a week and 2 -3 days. How would you like to call people every Sunday night from 4-9 and tell unsuspecting fools that you are just coming out to drop off their free union benefits.If so you and Jimmy will get along great! For about a year. Ask how many agents in NY have been there 2 years without joing management? I can think of 3. 9% last 1 year. Second year agents get paid differently and the managers get less of what you write. They are too busy hiring other new 1st year agents. They have high pressured every union member in NY that would open the door. I went months at a time with no leads from them while they gave leads to new hires. If you have been selling insurance for 5 years you should know better.Why do you think big shot Jimmy didn't call you back? Why 40 suckers per interview? Why no experience necessary? When you look in his eyes don't you see a liar? Would you sell that product to a friend or relative? Do you realize that under their current crap they are selling in NY there are only 2 ways to get paid? DIE, and get very little or be hospitalized overnight due to accident or injury. NYS is investigating them now and so are private investigators, attorneys, unions. Many ex 1099 people are looking at a class action suit for a pyramid scam. MLM. When you interviewed with a real Insurance company did they interview 40 or 1? Ask if you can read the contract before signing it, better yet tell him you want your attorneys opinion of it. He sure won't call you back. Ask any agent if they have a copy of their contract. They are so dumb it gets pulled from their hand and they don't even get a copy. Most people owe them when they leave. Do a search on their parent company, American Income, you will see it only gets worse. Look for the one written by Mark Colbert the private Investigator who helped sue them and won big. Call him up, he has his own web site and he will talk to you about the way these scammers run their game. As for Jimmy, even his girlfriend won't marry him because she knows what a liar he is. The best guy they had was Paul and he is gone and little jimmy is trying to fill his shoes, but he can't or you would have fallen for that crap, hook, line, sinker. They call their cold calls Globe Calls, any phone number on the Globe you call and pretend that they asked for your benefits. Bring a basket to puke in if you want to call Globe calls. Just how many union members do you think there are in NY? Why won't the Xerox union sign up. Why does the office use non union copy machines? I could go on for hours, one thing for sure- try if you like, you will be SORRY and looking for another job soon. They have exhausted and peed off the unions, where do you think your leads are coming from? Ever here of Natural market or referrals? Referrals, and more Referrals!!!!!! Show up at the office at 8:30AM on any Thursday and listen to Mr.Oldham or Jimmyachi scream at his managers about numbers. Thank God I got out with any sanity, NILICO/AIL can kiss my a*s!

This moron responding is probably Jim Biancci or one of his hiring managers saying good things about National Income. Anyone who has worked there will tell you this is crap. Free union leads every 2 weeks? Which unions? Any in Rochester? Do you mind driving to Buffalo everyday? Have they ever lost a union like the SEIU 200 State Employees union or the Nurses Association or problems with the UAW, or the local 435? 11% union penetration, why won't the other 89% sign up?

Do you have to lie and mis lead people to make a living there? Would that bother you? Are you good at lying? Do you enjoy lying? How do you feel about working 7 nightsa week and 2 -3 days. How would you like to call people every Sunday night from 4-9 and tell unsuspecting fools that you are just coming out to drop off their free union benefits.If so you and Jimmy will get along great! For about a year. Ask how many agents in NY have been there 2 years without joing management? I can think of 3. 9% last 1 year. Second year agents get paid differently and the managers get less of what you write. They are too busy hiring other new 1st year agents.

They have high pressured every union member in NY that would open the door. I went months at a time with no leads from them while they gave leads to new hires. If you have been selling insurance for 5 years you should know better.Why do you think big shot Jimmy didn't call you back? Why 40 suckers per interview? Why no experience necessary? When you look in his eyes don't you see a liar? Would you sell that product to a friend or relative? Do you realize that under their current crap they are selling in NY there are only 2 ways to get paid? DIE, and get very little or be hospitalized overnight due to accident or injury.

NYS is investigating them now and so are private investigators, attorneys, unions. Many ex 1099 people are looking at a class action suit for a pyramid scam. MLM. When you interviewed with a real Insurance company did they interview 40 or 1? Ask if you can read the contract before signing it, better yet tell him you want your attorneys opinion of it. He sure won't call you back. Ask any agent if they have a copy of their contract. They are so dumb it gets pulled from their hand and they don't even get a copy. Most people owe them when they leave. Do a search on their parent company, American Income, you will see it only gets worse. Look for the one written by Mark Colbert the private Investigator who helped sue them and won big.

Call him up, he has his own web site and he will talk to you about the way these scammers run their game. As for Jimmy, even his girlfriend won't marry him because she knows what a liar he is. The best guy they had was Paul and he is gone and little jimmy is trying to fill his shoes, but he can't or you would have fallen for that crap, hook, line, sinker. They call their cold calls Globe Calls, any phone number on the Globe you call and pretend that they asked for your benefits. Bring a basket to puke in if you want to call Globe calls. Just how many union members do you think there are in NY? Why won't the Xerox union sign up.

Why does the office use non union copy machines? I could go on for hours, one thing for sure- try if you like, you will be SORRY and looking for another job soon.

They have exhausted and peed off the unions, where do you think your leads are coming from? Ever here of Natural market or referrals? Referrals, and more Referrals!!!!!! Show up at the office at 8:30AM on any Thursday and listen to Mr.Oldham or Jimmyachi scream at his managers about numbers. Thank God I got out with any sanity, NILICO/AIL can kiss my a*s!

Hi Fritz. 7 days a week... that is not so black and white. Some weeks it could be 2 days. Imagine you delivered papers... you can work hard and get your nightly delivery done in 1 hour, or you can mosey along and take 3 hours. In the beginning, you are in training, and it is a lot of work. Once you've proven yourself, things are different. If you get your job done, it won't BE 7 days a week. My first commission check came immediately after I worked a week. It is a good thing!

Thanks John,

I'm close to seriously giving this more attention however my only main "red flag" issue is why are there so many disgruntled?

Secondly, I am a hard worker and have been in insurance sales for 5 years, but what's up with the 80 hour 7 day thing? Is that just in the first month or is that how it is all the time?

Lastly, being licensed and not having to worry about a licensing training class and by my working 7 days a week, when can I expect my first decent commission check to convince me that this is legit?

Thanks for responding,

Fritz
Rochester, NY

I am an ex-employee of National Income who left on good terms. I do, however, still speak regularly to many of the friends I made there.

What could be considered a scam about this? If you work, you will make money. POINT BLANK. Do you the think the "NYS Insurance radar" would allow them to do business if, in fact, they were a scam? New York is such a difficult place to do business, because of stricter laws than most other states. It just wouldn't happen here if it were a scam.

It is almost amusing to read these negative comments. If any of the people who wrote them did well, they would still be there working, instead of finding a forum to whine. There are many people who DO very well there, and those are the people who bust their rear-ends working. Yes, you have to work. Yes, you have to work a lot. How may people actually get anywhere in life by NOT WORKING? You work... you get paid. How simple is that?

What is wrong with these people? It reminds me of a break-up. It's much easier to say you didn't like the "ex" than to admit it was your fault it didn't work. It sounds to me like these people are the same ones who used to complain all the time instead of getting off their big butts and working. (You all know who those people are where you work, too!) Having worked there, I probably could name those people! Of course they don't like the company... anymore. I bet they sure liked it at the bonus meetings, though. They were too lazy to LET themselves do well, and just like they have probably done their entire lives, they moaned and complained instead of making things happen.

Give it a try. I had to move out of town and didn't want to work for any other SGA, that is the ONLY reason why I am still not there. If I am ever fortunate enough to move back to NY, that would be the FIRST place I would go. Durhon Oldham is a great man to work for and to learn from.

For those of you who are doubtful, just picture those people who hang out at the vending machine, stuffing their faces. They sit their and moan, while the smart ones do what they are supposed to do. Some people are "starters". Some sit the bench. I guess it just depends which you'd rather be.