Medical And Actuarial Innovations - Hal Butler - Medical Innovations Hardly. Lebanon Tennessee

Greetings all,

I just so happened to stumble across this when I was reading "Actuarial Discussion Forum - Professional Discussions for Professional Actuaries" a blogger listed this website w/ the URL tags. I began reading the blogs including the supporters of Mr. Hal Butler and was not quite sure if this was the same company I recently applied to which is:

Actuary Resources
(615) 547-6401
115 Castle Heights Ave N Ste 202, Lebanon, TN 37087-2768
 
The location of this company is also in Lebanon as mentioned in previous blogs and I did some research to determine weather or not this company was spearheaded by Mr. Butler and lo-and-behold on the BBB website it states: 
                                Incorporated: April 2006, TN
                                Contact InformationPrincipal: Mr. Howard Butler (President/CEO) 
                                Business Category
                                Employment Agencies, Consultant - Employee Benefit Plans, Actuary Recruiter, Employment Training, Employment Placement / Recruiting Services, Health Related Service.

So as an update (2013) to anyone who may be reading this Actuary Resources is owned by the same individual conducting business under a different name.

Please be advised.

In the wise words of Mr. PT Barnum "There's a sucker born every minute". Let's not be that person.

Getting an A+ rating from the BBB merely requires that you pay the appropriate fee. The BBB is a business, and the "product" that the BBB sells is "postitive public image."  You pay the fee, you get the rating.  Even Solutia TAS (a nasty collection agency) has an A+ rating, and the Solutia people are known to violate the FDCPA . . . yet, thet A+ rating persists.  The BBB will put a lawyeresque spin on legitiamte consumer complaints filed against a company that has paid a fee to get that A+ rating.  And rest assured, the BBB does absolutely ZERO investigation on its own. 

From obvious context of the message, the poster known as "future actuary - Culver" is clearly Hal Butler in disguise.  I shall summarize my previous post:  There is NO job.  Even if you actually wanted a review class, the one that Hal is selling is wholly inadequate.  If you find a way to pass the test (e.g., you are truly brilliant or you found a quality prep course), Hal will never talk to you again. PERIOD.

When someone flaunts their BBB accreditation as their #1 selling point as opposed to the satisfaction level of previous customers, something's obviously amiss.

I, like Stephen, Mike, etc. was in kind of a bad position back in 2009 when I applied for this garbage company.  I had just left my graduate school program, didn't have any prospects and found myself increasingly desperate for full-time work.

This, I strongly believe, is the EXACT type of mentality of Butler's "customers" (read: VICTIMS).  He's looking for vulnerable and desperate yet relatively financially secure lemmings from whom he can extract the maximum amount of money. He does not give a flying rip about improving your employment prospects nor what happens to you.

Fortunately, I stumbled across this website (thank you thank you THANK YOU STEPHEN, you anonymous godsend) BEFORE driving 8 hours for an "interview" with this pathetic excuse of a company.

After I received the email from "Kelly Bilbo" (that name obviously should have set off serious alarm bells in my head), I did a very minimal amount of research on this company, quickly discovering that it was a scam.  Naturally, after responding to Bilbutler with questions regarding the potential for future employment, I received no response and moved on with my *painful* job search.  Eventually, I did find work a la Stephen.

To everyone who receives an interview from Hal Bilbo: DO. NOT. GO.  I know you're in a tough position right now, but this is not a solution for anything.  Rather, this is a recipe for losing money and self-loathing after discovering you've been had.  Things will get better.

This guy (Hal Butler) is still running the ad, for what is now at least five years. I contacted him a long time ago, and he promised me a job, too, if I only could pass the first actuary exam (Exam P). At that time, the test was offered only 3 times year. Well, several months later, I passed the first exam and sent Hal an e-mail to tell him. I never heard from the guy again. The reason being that there is no job, and apparently there never was. However, he has been posting his advertisements on job sides like CareerBuilder.com continuously for at least five years. If he really did have jobs to fill, then he would be sending those who passed to his clients to be interviewed. I have never heard of a single case where someone got even an interview, let alone a job, through Hal and his "Actuary Resources" outfit.

After doing more research (and calling Nashville based AIG and Continental Life), I discovered that the Nashville market hires fewer than 10 "entry level" actuaries a year, and virtually all of those hires come through the college recruitment setting. The hiring managers have no reason to use a recruiter and pay a 20% fee to fill "entry level" positions -- Vandy and MTSU crank out plenty of people with math degrees to fill whatever positions need filling.

As for the review class, I've never talked to anyone who said the class was of any meaningful benefit to them. The Society of Actuaries (SOA) exams are very difficult, as is reflected by the 35% pass rate. This low pass rate gains additional significance when one considers that the vast majority of the people who take the exam have a significant amount of math courses and have studied hard prior to taking the test. A light-weight review of a freshman-level statistics will not prepare anyone for a SOA exam.

From all factual appearances, Hal is simply wanting to sell you on a $300+ review course, an inadequate review course at that. The people that do pass Exam P, like me, had to seek out a far higher level review program in order to be adequately prepared to pass (and many bright people still don't pass). Failing a SOA exam is sort of like getting cut from the University of Alabama's football team -- you might still be a pretty good football player yet not make the team.

My advice is to stay away from anything that Hal Butler is involved with. Your money, time, and effort are better focused elsewhere.

For a future actuary you don't have very good reading comprehension.  The scam is that once you pay for the class you can't get in touch with the company again.  They don't care what you do after you pay for the class because they have no contracts like they claim thus have no intention of finding you a job.  According to the report, all this company does is make empty promises, sell you on a prep class, and then disappear after they take your money. 

I have no experience with this company, but having intentions of entering the actuarial field, I do not understand the complaints with the company.  A person entering the actuarial field should know the expectations of the field.  There are 5 exams to be completed along with a couple of modules to achieve the title of Associate Actuary.  Exam P/1 is the first of many and most employers want it to either be passed or in preparation before they would give you the time of day.

As for the review class being a scam, they are only going to offer you so much information in a 10 hour total session time.  I have been informed by several people, you should spend 400-500 hrs preparing for each exam.  Many places offer review classes for similar, or higher prices, that would be similar in nature.  If you don't have prior knowledge of the information needed, no 10 hour session is going to help.  The actuarial field is a competitive field and will require dedication.

As I have said previously, I have no experience with this company.  I do not understand why people are saying a company that is a recruiting company is a scam, because they are not offering direct employment.  This is why they are a "recruiting company."  They recruit resumes and candidates that a hiring company can hire.  The review class is offered to help prepare you for an exam that nearly all employers will require.

I am not trying to put down anybody's intelligence, but this is the way of the actuarial field.  There is no "state" fee for the exams, they are part of the SOA, CAS, or other actuarial groups which certify the people in the profession.  As Mr. Butler reportedly put in the original e-mail to candidates, go to BeAnActuary.com to obtain more information on the actuarial field.

Thank you,
Future Actuary

This is not exactly a scam.  If you pay for the review class, I'm sure that you're going to get a review class.  What it is is dishonest advertising.  The job postings for Actuary Resources are for a job.  The interview is to possibly be placed for a job at some date in the future, if you shell out the cash for a review class.  This is misleading advertising, but I'm pretty sure it's entirely legal.

My thanks go out to those of you who took the time to write on here about your experiences with Actuarial Innovations, as it gave me proper perspective for when I met with Mr. Butler.  A few thoughts:

-The emphasis in my interview centered a great deal on Exam P/1, the actuarial probability exam.  Interestingly, in reviewing the e-mails sent to me leading up to the interview, nothing concerning this exam was ever mentioned at all.

-Mr. Butler was friendly and cordial, though I picked up on a few tells of potential dishonesty when I inquired specifically about the job opening(s) advertised (his use of the word "honestly", his hand touching his face and him suddenly stumbling over his words when I asked about job specifics, etc.)  This is not to say that he was being dishonest, but it would have set off alarms to me even if I hadn't been tipped off about potential pitfalls with the company via this site.

-As mentioned elsewhere, Actuarial Innovations is not a company looking to hire, but instead it is a company that places individuals in entry-level actuary positions.  Direct Insurance and Wells Fargo were two companies specifically mentioned to me by Mr. Butler, though no promise or guarantee of placement with either of those companies was made.

My overall analysis: it seems that the ads from Actuarial Innovations are a catch-all designed to get people in the greater Nashville area signed up for a course to prepare themselves to take Exam P/1.  If you have already passed this exam, it may be worth meeting with Mr. Butler to see if he can place you in a job.  If not, and especially if you don't have the cash or time or inclination to prepare for and take Exam P/1, my suggestion would be to avoid meeting with this company.

Hi everyone, I have to write this.  I can't believe that thing happen here. This company is a scam and a big scam. Please read all the ripoff, you will see that. I took their interview serveral months ago and they told me the one thing I need is the test. If I pass the test I get the job. But I have to take the prepare class even I don't live in that city. Because that's the program gonna work. So I paid for the class. After that, I never reach  MR Hal again, no matter how I try, there's no response from both email and phone. I leave the voice mail everyday. I am wondering what kind of company will never pick up the phone and will never call back to someone they have taken his money? That's just happened after I paid for the class. I am just a poor student, I worked as a waiter to cover my living cost. I borrowed money from my friend to pay 600 hundred class and exam fee. And how I supposed to find you asking the money back if you don't even pick up the d**n phone? And I recommend every one to see the other artical about this company in this website written by Hal's old parttern and you will see what real happened here. Please don't waste your money and time to that place

This is to Mike and for anyone that reads this before going in.


I also met with Mr. Butler and found him to be a wonderful person, he was very honest and upfront about the process and what he needed from those that interview. I don't get why people are coming here acting as if the process was not explained in detail.

Mr. Butler asked me over six times, after explaining the process, if I had any questions or concerns.

If you do any research on the profession, you will see that the statements made by Mr. Butler are 100% backed up. Success in the profession, even at the entry level, is dependent upon successful completion of the first exam.

So please people before you come here and read this and make a judgment, remember that these people did not complete the process. They have no clue if it actually works.

I also find it humorous that in the same statement Mike identifies himself as someone desperately seeking employment in a bad economy and then he goes on to talk about HIS CURRENT JOB!!!

Anything worth having is worth working for. If a simple prep class and a fee for being trained and prepared to succeed is enough to stop you, then you didn't want it bad enough anyway. 

FYI: Mr. Butler does not teach the course; it is done at a local university.

I would advise you to at least see the process through before you say it doesn't work or that it is a scam.

This is a man's character and business that you are insulting based off of your conspiracy theories.

Atkins.

I speak for myself who had been recently contacted by the Medical/Actuarial Innovations, Inc. I would like to express my gratitude toward Stephen who took the time and effort to give his detailed account of regarding the hiring scheme of the company.

As one of the many people who are desperately seeking jobs in this economy, I speak for all when I say that shame on those who take advantage of people in need. I looked at the test and 400 dollars for the prep for the first exam? Seriously? Any private tutor or college student who has a decent understanding of math could tutor you those math skills in a few sessions and it certainly should not cost you more than 200 at most. But I certainly am not most offended by the class offered. What does offend me is the very unethical way in which Mr. Hal Butler failed to disclose that the so called "entry level job" is a nickname for "a class you have to pay for." Well, I currently work as a teacher at a learning disability clinic and if you come here you know what you are paying for. Furthermore, I was PAID during my training instead of being asked to pay for it.

Thanks to Stephen again! And for everyone else, please remember this simple rule for it has served me well in the past:" you should never have to pay in order to get a job."

Best,

Mike

In response to Stephen and anyone else concerned.

The complaint that Stephen has submitted, is in fact an attack on my personal, as well as, my business character. Again, I have been in business since 1988, due to repeat business with my clients. It would be immoral, and unethical to advertise for a position that I didn't actually have available. I have signed contracts with several Fortune 500 companies looking for an Entry Level Assistant Actuarial Analyst.

Yes, Actuary Innovations, does offer a class in order to prepare for the first Actuary Exam. Most, but not all of our applicants have never heard of an Actuary or what they do. So, yes, Actuary Innovations does offer a review class for people who may need a refresher course in order to take the first exam. I am in no way misleading anyone with this advertisement. If Stephen had submitted his resume showing that he had passed one or more exams then he would have never been informed about the class. Actuary Innovations would have spoken to him solely about the open position.

We have letters from not only the companies that we work with, but the candidates that we have placed through our efforts, and both are very pleased with our services.

So, for everyone who is reading this Actuary Innovations has concrete, real, specific positions available. Anyone who has interview or is thinking about interviewing with Actuary Innovations should use their own judgement and not base their opinion on someone else opinions, especially since they only attended two classes.

If Stephen knew what he was signing up for and understood the process then why didn't he finish the classes and give Actuary Innovations the opportunity to full fill the contract in which he signed. Reference the following contract:


Actuary Review Classes



Please read the following carefully and initial each segment.

_____ I understand that the Actuary Review Class offered by Actuary Innovations, Inc., is tutorial in nature, and is offered in preparation for the actuarial examinations administered by the Society of Actuaries and the Casualty Actuarial Society. The purpose of the review class is to provide you with exam hints and strategies, to provide an overview of the material, and to give you a real-life person with whom you can discuss any questions you have about the material. The review class is not to serve as a forum for you to decide whether or not you are prepared for the exam.

_____ I understand that Actuary Innovations, Inc., requires payment in full from me prior to attempting the class, and that my registration is final. I also understand that the fee is $380.00 (three hundred eighty dollars) and that the fee is non-refundable, until I am successfully placed. Also, Actuary Innovations, Inc. will refund application fees, as well, upon successful placement through our efforts.


_____ I understand that in the event that I fail the actuary examination, I may retake the Actuary Review Class free of any payment.

_____ I understand that I am responsible for registering to take the exam with the Society of Actuaries or the Casualty Actuarial Society before January 29th, 2009, in order to take Exam 1/P on March the 10th thru the 19th.

_____ I have read each section in this contract and I understand the significance. This contract shall serve as a receipt for the registration fee as well as mutual assent.





Actuary Innovations offers a tool to help people succeed with thier goals, weather, it being a review class or immediate employment. So, again, it is up to each individual on which path they choose to take. Actuary Innovations, as well as, myself wish everyone the best with all of thier endeavors.

In response to Mr. Butler and with all due respect...

The above was in no way an attack on your personal character nor on your business. It was merely a "fair warning" to anyone who came across your ad which has been posted like wildfire across internet job boards throughout middle Tennessee. I was merely informing them that you are not offering a position but the opportunity to take (as we have both pointed out) a non-accredited class in order to prepare one for the P/1 actuarial exam.

As you are no idiot, sir, and neither am I, I did my homework on the information which was provided to me before I agreed to sign up for the review class which proved by and large to be a remedial review at best. I knew exactly what I signed when I agreed to take this class.

My main source of contention with this advertisement was the offer of employment. There is no concrete, real, specific position available. It is for all intents and purposes an advertisement for one to sign up for your review class in preparation for the aforementioned exam. Your business, as you have yourself indicated, is a "Recruiting, Search, and Consulting Firm." And while that is all well and good and certainly an honorable way to make a living, there is in no manner, shape or form, a firm position available as indicated by your advertisement. By your own admission in your rebuttal, "the hiring company [decides] on which candidates get these positions" (regarding internships and ultimately full-time positions) and furthermore that "[we] get your resume out to the hiring companies, the final decision lies with the hiring company." That is my main source of disappointment regarding this job posting.

Regarding my personal situation, I am somewhat disappointed with the lack of communication on your end. As I have previously indicated, the lack of return communication on your part especially after the repeated attempts to contact you and the repeated mentioning of paid internships. Furthermore, I find it decidedly convenient from a somewhat jaded perspective that the only time after my initial contact attempts, my agreement to enroll in said class and the repeated indications of a paid internship made by you during our initial meetings that the only attempt made by you, sir, to contact me was after I filed this report. Bad form, indeed.

It is my suggestion, sir, that you make things much more clear in the future with your advertisement: that you indicate that this is a review course for the P/1 actuarial exam. From an ethical perspective, I would recommend indicating that there is no guaranteed position available that is being offered; rather, there is the opportunity to become better prepared and (ultimately) qualified for a career in the actuary field. It is also my suggestion that you indicate that there is no guaranteed position and at that upon successful completion of the review course and the state issued exam that at the end of things the candidate may very well have just that: successful completion of the review course and a state issued certification with no job. That may not be the best way to grow a firm (especially a recruiting firm) but it may be the most ethical way.

I do wish you well in your continued efforts and that you continue to have success. Color me the wiser for having gone through this process.

This is in response to Stephen. He did submit his resume for an open position that Actuary Innovations has been hired to fill. Actuary Innovations, is a Recruiting, Search, and Consulting firm. The company that has retained our services is looking for an Assistant Actuarial Analyst (Entry Level), we have the signed agreements to back up what we are advertising for. Once Actuarial Innovations received Stephen's resume, it was reviewed and he was sent the following standard e-mail;

Good afternoon, thank you for responding to the Assistant Actuarial Analyst position we have available. Upon review of your resume I would like to schedule an interview with you the week of October the 15th through the 22nd. Prior to scheduling an interview, I would like for you to go to www.beanactuary.org in order to give you an idea of the position you are applying for, also while on that web site please check out the News Room link, also, on the home page if you you scroll to the bottom of the page and take the High School 5 question test, along with clicking onto what is an Actuary and watching the u-tube video. Once you have visited the web site, if you are still interested in this position please contact me at 615-360-5171 or at actuary@mdinnovations.org. I am looking forward to hearing from you. Although, you will be interviewing in Lebanon, TN the positions are in the Nashville and Brentwood, TN areas.

Sincerely,

Hal Butler
President/CEO
Medical/Actuary Innovations
Phone: 615-360-5171
Fax: 615-360-5173
E-Mail: halbutler@mdinnovations.org
Web Site: www.mdinnovations.org

This e-mail makes reference to certain web sites the first one being www.beanactuary.org. This let's everyone get a general idea of what type of position they are applying for, and what steps need to be taken in order to become an Actuary. The second web site is www.mdinnovations.org, which is the Medical/Actuary Innovations site. This web site is put in the e-mail so everyone applying for these positions know up front that we are a Recruiting, Search, and Consulting Firm.

As far as, the paid internship position goes. Actuary Innovations has clients that are looking for interns, and are willing to pay them; however, it is up to the hiring company on which candidates get these positions, (which an internships is not the original position that Stephen applied for). During the interviewing process we ask each candidate if they would be interested in an internship, if their answer is yes (then and only then) will we submit a resume. Again, all we guarantee, as far as, the internship goes, is getting your resume out to the hiring companies, the final decision lies with the hiring company.

Actuary Innovations offers a prep class, to get each candidates ready to take the first Actuarial Exam. Most people who fail this exam, fail it because they run out of time taking it. The prep class consist of five nights, two hours per night. Everyone is told up front that this is not an accredited class, this is just a prep class for this exam.

The instructor hands out material at the beginning of the prep class, at this time he references the study guide that he uses. No one is obligated to buy this manual, nor the calculator, these are just the ones that the instructor has chosen. However; if a candidate does decide to purchase these items they are ask to keep their receipts so that they can be reimburse once they have passed the exam, and been successfully placed through our efforts, just like with the original $380.00 fee that the candidates pay up front. Everything is reimburse once you have passed the exam, and accepted a position through our efforts. This is stated in the contract, that each candidate signs once they have decided to take the prep class. The contract is gone over with each candidate before they sign it. Along with signing and dating the contract, each candidate has to initial each paragraph showing that they know exactly what they are agreeing too.

Stephen was given all of this information before he can back to Actuarial Innovations the second time to enroll in the prep class. He was in no way mislead. He paid for a service that was offered to him, it is unfortunate that he decided that it was of no use to him. We have letters from candidates that have taken this prep class, whom we have placed successfully, stating that is was a great asset to them. Also, we have invoices from clients were we have placed (Entry Level) Assistant Actuarial Analyst at. So, again it is unfortunate that Stephen decided to drop out of the class.

I have been building my business since 1988, due to repeat business with my clients. Most of my clients are Fortune 500 Companies.


Sincerely,

Hal