TINY DETAILS ripoff Scam TOTAL RIPOFF NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU WORK THEY DO NOT PAY YOU Groton New York

"Adrienne" claims that what she did "took me a month of hard work". But if you look elsewhere on Ripoffreport.com at the Tiny Details report from "Omid", you'll see that it took him 6 hours to do the same work.

Very much like Omid's performance, she returned money that had crooked sides and large amounts of white paper showing around the edges. She also disregarded the simple clear instructions warning against doing her work this way. To her credit, we sent her another complete set of materials FOR FREE, and she did submit the money again without the white paper, but still with crooked sides. Not surprisingly, she returned the corrected set of money in half the time of her first bad set. So, her statement "you fix what you can find to fix(nothing)" is clearly false. She did fix one problem and not the other. And we sent them back to her asking her to correct the remaining problem. That is where her statement "then no matter what they send them back!" comes from.

Adrienne exaggerates again when she says "by the time you send it again, you have lost in shipping all the money you would have earned with them." It costs $0.86 to $1.03 to send a set of money through the mail depending upon the weight of the packing material. So, she's down from $50 to $47.94 in the worst case. But remember that she would have been reimbursed for her postage had she done the work properly.

There are two statements that Adrienne makes for which we have no rebuttal because we have absolutely no idea what she means. 1) "The funny thing is that when they send you their sample it is really defective!" Assume for the moment that our sample was defective as she claims. That means that she knows what a proper job is but did not do it. Or assume the opposite that our sample was not defective. That means that she doesn't know what a proper job is and no wonder she couldn't do it. 2) "...also they will not give you refunds." We think she might mean "they will not give you a refund if you don't ask for one in a timely manner or if you want a 100% refund but never do the work you promised to do."

It is our opinion that the "insanity" Adrienne refers to is not on our side of the fence.

What really happens is that of course as a company tiny details has the right to defend themselves from complaints and I dare anyone to find a company that would be -HONEST ENOUGH- to admit that they are doing a scam.

First of all the person that the company refers to that took 6 hours to finish his job ( Omid-another poor victim of this company) is complaining about this company and not complimenting them, so it totally surprised me that they would even bring him up and mention him in their rebuttal....

Anyway, I am really noticing that from the way they respond to their customers is also very rude and unsympathethic and they are not even trying to fix the complaints they get,so I just guess some companies will never improve their relationships with their customers, I personally think that this is a very unprofessional way to deal with complaints and it is very sad to see this happening for any future person willing to work at home.I just feel that anything me and any other person would write here about them they would respond in the same way with this non sense -what really happened to him or her and them stating that all we do and say is wrong..
Of course if me and many other people were happy about this company we would not be wasting our time complaining on this website and others.

I don't feel like adding anymore "DETAILS" of what went wrong since I already can imagine their response so let's go to the facts: just visit better business bureau and there is a synthesis of the company.

BOTTOM LINE: I think this company to improve their customer service they should give back a "FULL" refund to me and all the rest of the people complaining in order to get a better reputation. It appears to me that this company strives on people that are unable to meet their

"unreachable standards" and their profits are gained from not giving refunds or at the worst keeping a part of it.

Adrienne is right: Tiny Details has the right to defend itself and HAS to defend itself against overblown and inaccurate complaints.

On the subject of our using Omar as an example, I brought him up because he was also as upset as Adrienne, but he acted as an independent and sort of unbiased witness to prove that Adrienne exaggerates -- a lot.

Adrienne goes on to say, in essence, that we're unprofessional, rude and cold-hearted because we tell "what really happened". Once again, she's right: There is nothing better than the cold, hard facts.

She then suggests that the Better Business Bureau's report on Tiny Details is a "synthesis" about us. Well, we invite you to look at our report and judge for yourself. Compare our report with any other company's report that works with people nationwide and has done so since 1999. You'll find that we have VERY few complaints and we resolve them in the favor of the people who make the complaints WHEN IT IS FAIR TO DO SO. It is fair to do so when the facts support it.

Adrienne's summary is that Tiny Details should give refunds to anyone who complains regardless of the facts. And, then, once again, she's right: our "profits are gained from not giving refunds". It's really the other way around. We would go out of business if we gave a full refund for a job that was not well done. We would have all of our expenses and nothing to show for it.

Finally, her comment about "unreachable standards" needs to be addressed:

1) Except for new products, we give people samples of the product to compare with their work.

2) We will check peoples work at no cost to them but a 37-cent stamp.

3) Our instructions for making the products have the exact same list of items to check that is used by our checkers when they examine submitted products.

4) We are available to talk to by phone if there's any question about making the products.

What more we could do to make the standards reachable?

Peter's really trying, but to me Tiny Details still looks like the classic "assemble products at home" scam.

The Tiny Details web site is good and slick, but it is very long on promoting the "work at home opportunity" and very short on what a legitimate company would try hardest to do: SELLING THE FINISHED PRODUCT. It says only that Tiny Details products are "sold in fine craft and hobby stores." Companies that do not retail products directly through their web site almost always post a list of authorized retailers (unless it is a very common major product that can be found in any grocery or drug store). I would suggest that anyone considering "working for" Tiny Details first try to locate and purchase a finished TD product at retail. It sounds a lot like the infamous Montres Allison watches that are supposedly "sold in fine jewelry stores nationwide" even though they aren't.

Look a the products, they are just cut and/or folded pieces of printed paper. Machines have been cutting and folding paper since the early days of the Industrial Revolution. If the work is really so precise that it isn't feasible to use machines, there are legions of potential workers in Third World countries that would do it for a dollar or two PER DAY, not per item. Paying potentially unreliable American home-workers such a high rate for this work does not make good business sense. That is if Tiny Details' business model were to make a profit on selling finished goods, which apparently it is not.

Tiny Details is no different from other versions of the assemble at home scam in that it demands money up front from the worker. ANY COMPANY THAT REQUIRES YOU TO PAY THEM MONEY BEFORE YOU CAN WORK FOR THEM IS A SCAM! Period, or exclamation mark in this case. They are trying to profit from the money paid up front by unsuccessful "workers". The web site says the money is not a "fee", it's a "fully refundable deposit." Read further into the fine print and see this is a blatent lie. The money will only be refunded fully if the products are completed to Tiny Detail's satisfaction. This is completely arbitrary. Typically the scam works by always rejecting the work, as Adrienne and the other reporters here said, "No matter how hard you work, they do not pay you."

Also the site says that the home workers work "at their leisure". This is not true. There is a strict 60-day time limit. Even if you need more time to rework some quality problems (which of course you will, because they are going to reject everything regardless of its quality), the 60 day clock is still ticking. Perhaps not coincidentally, 60 days is also the time limit that consumers have to dispute charges with their bank or credit card company. So they will string you along until 60 days are up and then blow a kiss goodbye, knowing they can now keep all of your $50.00 for good.

What have they sold you for $50.00? A few pieces of printed paper, a disposable knife, a few letters and phone calls, and a dream turned into a nightmare. That's a pretty good profit for them. The company could survive quite well on this alone, as many scammers before them have.

The title of Mike's comment is quite accurate ... It is hard to shake off the reputation of being a work-at-home company. We fight that battle every day. Mike makes some good points but needs to do his homework better.

Mike starts by saying that our web site is oriented more toward manufacture of our products than sales of them. Perhaps he should have looked closer at the information for retailers and wholesalers which depicts our complete catalog of miniatures.

CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.

Perhaps, he should have visited a few of the web sites like ((REDACTED))and looked in the book section (our biggest sellers). By the way, make a note of the prices of the books, $7 and $8 each...I'll talk about this more below. What Mike doesn't consider is that selling these products is easier than getting people to make them.

Next, Mike trivializes our products as being cut and folded paper. (He forgets the gluing part.) He suggests that we send this work offshore to be done. I have only worked for Tiny Details during a time when US and Canadian workers were accepted. You have no idea of the problems involved in crossing borders with products of any kind. For that reason, in September of 2003, we stopped accepting Canadian assemblers. I understand that the one attempt at having the work done in a third-world country was also unsuccessful.

Furthermore, Mike doesn't realize that there IS good profit in selling our products. Our books cost us $1 in labor and about another $0.50 in other costs. Note that they sell at retail for $7 or $8. You do the arithmetic!

Next, Mike screams, in capital letters, the mantra of never sending money to someone to work for them. Well, here we'll have to agree to disagree. The bottom line is that if there is no incentive to get the work done in a timely manner, it doesn't get done. In the early days of Tiny Details, products were sent out for assembly without deposits and it was disasterous. AS my father used to say, "If it's free, I'll take two."

I've talked elsewhere about the steps Tiny Details takes to assist assembler's in meeting the requirements of a good job.

Next, Mike attacks the 60-day time limit for production, saying that it's there because credit card disputes have a 60-day time limit. The law says that it is 60 days after RECEIVING THE BILL IN QUESTION. So, my arithmetic says that's an average of 15 days after Tiny Details' time limit.

Also, it is true that many of our assemblers do the work at their leisure, but within the 60-day period.

Mike asks what you get for $50.00. First, it's not $50, it's $25. During that 60-day period, anyone can get a $25 refund WITHOUT STATING ANY REASON. Second, we don't sell those materials, we GIVE assemblers the materials (and any additional materials necessary to complete the work, as noted elsewhere). The fuller list of things the assembler has gotten is:

advertising,
product development, design and testing,
web hosting and design,
telephone expenses,
internet service expenses,
rent,
electricity,
heating, cooling and lighting,
garbage service,
vehicle expenses,
label expenses,
postage expenses,
shipping container expenses,
knives (as many as needed),
glue (as much as needed),
bags (as many as needed),
samples of the products, AND
a few pieces of paper (that paper can cost as much as $12.00, also as many as needed).

Mike, it's not cheap to run a business.

Tiny Details differs from the disreputable work at home companies in many ways:
You can talk to us on the phone.
You can at least get part of your money back if you don't complete the work.
You are sent everything necessary to do the work (except a stapler and staples).
Tiny Details publishes (in the instructions) the criteria by which we judge the work.
Tiny Details has an incredibly low rate of complaints.

Mike's comments are well meaning, but he needs to do his homework and see the "Tiny Details".

Let's see here, I Was going to put up my $50 to try this Idea out, after careful research I Have changed my mine, Reason is i also noticed something they may not easily explain, first of all: There 877 phone number is Identical to christian miniatures, which appears to have a very simular website....even down to the words!.

Christian Miniatures is Same type of company as Tiny Details, and there both earlie simular!.
Even from the same area it seems, according to there fax numbers.

Also, I Personally will ask: Which stores do they sell there Miniatures to, because Readers Digest wants to know :)

They haven't yet said who exactly they sell thier miniatures to.

They only Allow americans to do this idea, I Called them and The Guy answered and he wasn't even from the USA, I Mean he had a Deep strong Accent...Not saying there is a races thing going on here but anyways, that is my thought, I'll leave the rest for everyone else to ponder.