• Report: #201004

Complaint Review: 7-Eleven

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  • Submitted: Fri, July 14, 2006
  • Updated: Thu, July 27, 2006

  • Reported By:Midwest City Oklahoma
7-Eleven
2485 North Post Drive Indianapolis, Indiana U.S.A.

7-Eleven Convenience Stores 7-11 Bad fuel sludge ripoff Indianapolis Indiana

*Consumer Comment: The dealership is still blowing smoke

*Consumer Comment: Toyota V6 issues for Thomas

*Consumer Comment: Toyota V6 issues for Thomas

*Consumer Comment: Toyota V6 issues for Thomas

*Consumer Comment: Toyota V6 issues for Thomas

*Consumer Comment: Hey Robert of Jacksonville, Florida...

*Consumer Comment: Hey Robert of Jacksonville, Florida...

*Consumer Comment: Hey Robert of Jacksonville, Florida...

*Consumer Comment: Hey Robert of Jacksonville, Florida...

*Consumer Suggestion: Really seems like an unrelated problem.

*Author of original report: Now that was just completely awesome

*Consumer Comment: I had a similar problem

*Consumer Comment: One at a time Christopher

*Author of original report: Thanx for the 411 Robert

*Author of original report: Thanx for the 411 Robert

*Author of original report: Thanx for the 411 Robert

*Author of original report: Thanx for the 411 Robert

*Consumer Comment: HOLY MOLY!!!!

*Author of original report: I need more information

*Consumer Comment: Stunning to say the least

*Consumer Suggestion: Threee miles sounds fishy.

*Consumer Comment: Christopher,

*Consumer Comment: Christopher,

*Consumer Comment: Christopher,

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On October 8th, 2005 I was travelling to New York and was running low on fuel. We stopped at the 7-Eleven (7-11) located at 2485 Post Road in Indianapolis, Indiana. I purchased 13 gallons of "fuel" and left. 3 miles down the road my vehicle began to behave in a very unusual manner. It started lurching and stalling and billowing thick white smoke out the exhaust.

I made it to the next town, Greenfield, where I found an Advance Auto Parts store nearby. The guys there quickly identified the problem as being bad gas and made some recommendations. We tried one bottle of HEET water remover and it did nothing. They said it had to be really bad and recommended another, plus a bottle of Lucas Fuel Treatment. I also purchased a bottle of octane booster.

After an hour, my car finally started. Unfortunately, they didn't have a fuel filter that would fit my 2004 Isuzu Rodeo with a 3.5 Liter Direct Injection engine. However, they advised there was an Auto Zone in Richmond (30 minutes away). It took the entire contents of my fuel tank to get us 42 miles down the road (save about 1/2 gallon).

By the time we got there, Auto Zone was closed, so we tried the Wal Mart Supercenter. 6 filters or so later, no luck, we bought a dishpan and drained the remaining "fuel" from my tank. It looked like bloody diahrrea, for lack of a better comparison. Needless to say, since then I have had nothing but engine and fuel system problems.

Here I am 9 months later and over $14,000 worth of damages to my vehicle and yet to receive any resolve from them. John Phillip Reinartz, a representative of 7-Eleven's Risk Management team from the Arthur J Gallagher group, did offer me $34.21 to cover the tank of bad gas. I hardly found that amusing.

If anyone else has had a similar problem, please feel free to contact me by email at (((ROR REDACTED EMAIL FOR SECURITY PURPOSES))). I plan on filing as many complaints as it takes, and possibly a lawsuit to compensate my damages. I have receipts from the gas station, the parts stores, the Wal Mart, and the dealerships where I have had my vehicle repeatedly repaired since 08 October 2005, at least 8-12 times with technician statements and advisor information. My cell # is (((ROR REDACTED PHONE FOR SECURITY PURPOSES))) and my service advisor, Glenn, can be contacted at (((ROR REDACTED PHONE FOR SECURITY PURPOSES)))

Thanks in advance for any and all assistance in this matter. A quick response would be GREATLY appreciated as I am an investigator and have lost over 19 days of work so far, some of which was surveillance where I make $250 a day. Not to mention the $30/day for the rental car.

CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.

Christopher
Midwest City, Oklahoma
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 07/14/2006 03:03 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/7-Eleven/Indianapolis-Indiana-46219/7-Eleven-Convenience-Stores-7-11-Bad-fuel-sludge-ripoff-Indianapolis-Indiana-201004. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 Consumer Comment

The dealership is still blowing smoke

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

"1) Internal engine failure apparent by metal shavings in lower oil pan. He states that when the contaminants (which I took photos of and it looks like baked on red clay) restricted the necessary 450 psi in the fuel delivery it caused the vehicle to run lean and overheat, causing something or other to warp and eventually fail. (apparently)"

The maximum pressure your fuel pump can make is 60psi. It is running at between 26-52, depending on load. You can usually force the pump to make an extra few psi by closing off the line so the pump pushes against a wall. 450 psi? Never happened. I'll assume you meant 45psi. The metal shavings are very suspect. It would only be from a lubrication issue, and running lean has nothing to do with the oil pressure.

" He stated that the elevated temperatures are what caused the catalytic converter failure, and they did comp that on warranty. But they want their money back too, and those are $839 each"

If they are getting them taken care of with a warranty claim, then there is no need for you to pay for them. That's what being "comp'ed" on warranty means. The factory sends them the parts, and also pays them the labor. You should pay nothing.

"3) The cost for the long block and install is $8804 not counting the rental. (this is new per my request so I don't void my warranty). Ray states that the engine has to be replaced due to the extent of the damages caused to each of the rod things and seals."

The engine lists out at $5163.68. The labor time to swap out is 13-14 hours, depending on whether you have 2 or 4 wheel drive. At 14 hours, they are billing you for $260/hour. Don't you think that's a bit steep?

"4) My fuel rails were $699 and change each (left and right), maybe some elbow grease could have saved me some money there. However, in their defense, the substance had about the same consistency as bloody diahrea, maybe red mud?)"

Blowing shop air through the rails will blow out anything. Flush them out with solvent afterwards. Takes about 10 minutes.

"The fuel tank is $400, fuel pump $269, and I was wrong about the injectors, they were $135 each, the fuel pressure regulator was $115 or so, then of course the labor."

Steam clean the tank. There is no reason to replace it. Unless it is damaged in some way, cleaning it out is the normal way of doing things.

You should really call another shop and see what they'll do for you. Take the dealerships information and ask them what it can actually be done for. Don't tell them what the dealership wants though. I have a feeling you'll be able to save about 1/3 of your money.
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#2 Consumer Comment

Toyota V6 issues for Thomas

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

If you used a coventional oil and changed the oil every 7500 miles as per the owner's manual, they develope heavy sludge in the pan. You use synthetic, as do I, and have had no problems. I change mine every 5000 miles, and it comes out just as clean as it went in.

Realistically, if you used coventional oil and changed it every 3000 miles, you would never have a problem. But, Toyota told everyone to go more than double that between changes, and therein lies the problem. Conventional oil is way past it's useful life by that mileage, and the sludge issue became a nightmare for them. Toyota still calls it operator error, but amazingly, this is not an issue for the L4 engines with the same maintenance schedule. With some prodding, Toyota has been quietly replacing the engines affected.
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#3 Consumer Comment

Toyota V6 issues for Thomas

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

If you used a coventional oil and changed the oil every 7500 miles as per the owner's manual, they develope heavy sludge in the pan. You use synthetic, as do I, and have had no problems. I change mine every 5000 miles, and it comes out just as clean as it went in.

Realistically, if you used coventional oil and changed it every 3000 miles, you would never have a problem. But, Toyota told everyone to go more than double that between changes, and therein lies the problem. Conventional oil is way past it's useful life by that mileage, and the sludge issue became a nightmare for them. Toyota still calls it operator error, but amazingly, this is not an issue for the L4 engines with the same maintenance schedule. With some prodding, Toyota has been quietly replacing the engines affected.
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#4 Consumer Comment

Toyota V6 issues for Thomas

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

If you used a coventional oil and changed the oil every 7500 miles as per the owner's manual, they develope heavy sludge in the pan. You use synthetic, as do I, and have had no problems. I change mine every 5000 miles, and it comes out just as clean as it went in.

Realistically, if you used coventional oil and changed it every 3000 miles, you would never have a problem. But, Toyota told everyone to go more than double that between changes, and therein lies the problem. Conventional oil is way past it's useful life by that mileage, and the sludge issue became a nightmare for them. Toyota still calls it operator error, but amazingly, this is not an issue for the L4 engines with the same maintenance schedule. With some prodding, Toyota has been quietly replacing the engines affected.
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#5 Consumer Comment

Toyota V6 issues for Thomas

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

If you used a coventional oil and changed the oil every 7500 miles as per the owner's manual, they develope heavy sludge in the pan. You use synthetic, as do I, and have had no problems. I change mine every 5000 miles, and it comes out just as clean as it went in.

Realistically, if you used coventional oil and changed it every 3000 miles, you would never have a problem. But, Toyota told everyone to go more than double that between changes, and therein lies the problem. Conventional oil is way past it's useful life by that mileage, and the sludge issue became a nightmare for them. Toyota still calls it operator error, but amazingly, this is not an issue for the L4 engines with the same maintenance schedule. With some prodding, Toyota has been quietly replacing the engines affected.
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#6 Consumer Comment

Hey Robert of Jacksonville, Florida...

AUTHOR: Thomas - (U.S.A.)

Now that Christopher seems satisfied, I wanted to ask you about your comment ".... It's sort of like Toyota and the oil sytem issues with their V6 engines."

Would you please elaborate on those "oil sytem issues" ?

I have a 1991 Camry 4 cyl with auto, air, cruise, etc. with 318,000 miles on it that I bought new, and I am thinking about replacing this '91 Camry with a 2007 Camry 3.5L V6 instead of another 4 cyl.

The '91 has had three 'repairs': Alternator (275K), starter (290K) and waterpump (310K). I did the first two repairs for a combined total of $230. The shocks, etc. are all original. The engine and tranny are fine.

I know the V6 Camrys of '91 - '95 vintage had strutplate issues, maybe because the V6 wieght is more that the 4 cyl weight.

So what are the issues with the Toyota V6? [I use Mobil-1 or AMSOIL High-Perf synthetic changed every 7500 miles. I also use the AMSOIL in the Baja where it really shines.]
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#7 Consumer Comment

Hey Robert of Jacksonville, Florida...

AUTHOR: Thomas - (U.S.A.)

Now that Christopher seems satisfied, I wanted to ask you about your comment ".... It's sort of like Toyota and the oil sytem issues with their V6 engines."

Would you please elaborate on those "oil sytem issues" ?

I have a 1991 Camry 4 cyl with auto, air, cruise, etc. with 318,000 miles on it that I bought new, and I am thinking about replacing this '91 Camry with a 2007 Camry 3.5L V6 instead of another 4 cyl.

The '91 has had three 'repairs': Alternator (275K), starter (290K) and waterpump (310K). I did the first two repairs for a combined total of $230. The shocks, etc. are all original. The engine and tranny are fine.

I know the V6 Camrys of '91 - '95 vintage had strutplate issues, maybe because the V6 wieght is more that the 4 cyl weight.

So what are the issues with the Toyota V6? [I use Mobil-1 or AMSOIL High-Perf synthetic changed every 7500 miles. I also use the AMSOIL in the Baja where it really shines.]
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#8 Consumer Comment

Hey Robert of Jacksonville, Florida...

AUTHOR: Thomas - (U.S.A.)

Now that Christopher seems satisfied, I wanted to ask you about your comment ".... It's sort of like Toyota and the oil sytem issues with their V6 engines."

Would you please elaborate on those "oil sytem issues" ?

I have a 1991 Camry 4 cyl with auto, air, cruise, etc. with 318,000 miles on it that I bought new, and I am thinking about replacing this '91 Camry with a 2007 Camry 3.5L V6 instead of another 4 cyl.

The '91 has had three 'repairs': Alternator (275K), starter (290K) and waterpump (310K). I did the first two repairs for a combined total of $230. The shocks, etc. are all original. The engine and tranny are fine.

I know the V6 Camrys of '91 - '95 vintage had strutplate issues, maybe because the V6 wieght is more that the 4 cyl weight.

So what are the issues with the Toyota V6? [I use Mobil-1 or AMSOIL High-Perf synthetic changed every 7500 miles. I also use the AMSOIL in the Baja where it really shines.]
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#9 Consumer Comment

Hey Robert of Jacksonville, Florida...

AUTHOR: Thomas - (U.S.A.)

Now that Christopher seems satisfied, I wanted to ask you about your comment ".... It's sort of like Toyota and the oil sytem issues with their V6 engines."

Would you please elaborate on those "oil sytem issues" ?

I have a 1991 Camry 4 cyl with auto, air, cruise, etc. with 318,000 miles on it that I bought new, and I am thinking about replacing this '91 Camry with a 2007 Camry 3.5L V6 instead of another 4 cyl.

The '91 has had three 'repairs': Alternator (275K), starter (290K) and waterpump (310K). I did the first two repairs for a combined total of $230. The shocks, etc. are all original. The engine and tranny are fine.

I know the V6 Camrys of '91 - '95 vintage had strutplate issues, maybe because the V6 wieght is more that the 4 cyl weight.

So what are the issues with the Toyota V6? [I use Mobil-1 or AMSOIL High-Perf synthetic changed every 7500 miles. I also use the AMSOIL in the Baja where it really shines.]
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#10 Consumer Suggestion

Really seems like an unrelated problem.

AUTHOR: Mike - (U.S.A.)

The part about taking 3 miles to clear the lines tells me right away not to trust that mechanic. In the olden days, a car could go for maybe a mile on gas in the lines and the carbuerator bowl. All modern fuel-injected cars work differently though. The fuel pump pumps much more fuel than the engine can use. The excess returns from the engine to the tank thru another line. Within seconds after turning the key on, the fuel at the injectors is fresh from the tank. This is usually good, for example after running out of gas or if the car has been sitting hot and the gas in the lines started to boil (the cause of "vapor lock" in an old car), it is easy to restart. The latter carbuerated cars also usually included a recirculation feature.

So if there seemed to be nothing unusual and then WHAM three miles later it suddely dies, it was almost certainly an unrelated problem.

The white smoke was probably steam. If it smelled like antifreeze, it was from coolant getting into the engine. If not, it would be water in the gas. The test is simple, you'd go and smell the cloud. Now there's no way to tell.

Suspecting contaminated gas, the test is to disconnect one of the lines under the hood and get a sample of what is actually reaching the engine (Not recommended for beginners or chain smokers). The stuff that comes out the drain plug is not representative of what the pump picks up. There is always some "dead space" in the bottom of a gas tank that naturally collects water, sediment, and rust. It does no harm there because the pump can't reach it.

It is very possible that your converters were broken in the process of removing them from the truck, or broken intentionally to sell new ones at an inflated price. The other way to ruin a converter is to drive for a while with an IGNITION problem that sends a lot of raw gas (not water) thru the engine and burns up the converter.

Overheating is the nemesis of any engine and can occur suddenly. Robert suggests that he has seen that problem in the model you have.

Why did the engine need replacing if it stopped smoking after purging the gas tank?

Why is your truck inoperable now? If it is the engine again, the replacement engine should still be under warranty, either as a seperate part or covered under the manufacturer's warranty on the whole truck.

There's no way that a run-in with bad gas 9 months ago can cause your engine failure now.
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#11 Author of original report

Now that was just completely awesome

AUTHOR: Christopher - (U.S.A.)

Hey, Robert! Thanks a million. Sorry for all the questions, I guess it's in my nature to try and have all the facts from a knowledged source. You went above and beyond my expectations. You completely rock! Having been an investigator for 7 years now, I've learned you can never be too thorough. I just got off the phone with the technician at the dealership and he gave me a quick rundown of his findings and inclinations to the cause:

1) Internal engine failure apparent by metal shavings in lower oil pan. He states that when the contaminants (which I took photos of and it looks like baked on red clay) restricted the necessary 450 psi in the fuel delivery it caused the vehicle to run lean and overheat, causing something or other to warp and eventually fail. (apparently)

2) He stated that the elevated temperatures are what caused the catalytic converter failure, and they did comp that on warranty. But they want their money back too, and those are $839 each

3) The cost for the long block and install is $8804 not counting the rental. (this is new per my request so I don't void my warranty). Ray states that the engine has to be replaced due to the extent of the damages caused to each of the rod things and seals.

4) My fuel rails were $699 and change each (left and right), maybe some elbow grease could have saved me some money there. However, in their defense, the substance had about the same consistency as bloody diahrea, maybe red mud?)

5) The fuel tank is $400, fuel pump $269, and I was wrong about the injectors, they were $135 each, the fuel pressure regulator was $115 or so, then of course the labor.

Just an interesting point of fact: they advise that they did testing a few days after I filed the complaint, when I asked for them to send me a copy of the results, no one put up. Except me, I provided them with tons of receipts with dates and times on everything. The only reason I am being so thorough in clearing 7-11 of any or all liability is that my vehicle ran like a scalded dog before stopping there. Now it's just sitting and collecting Oklahoma dust.

By the way, the gas was purchased in Indianapolis, haven't mapquested the distance between there and Cincinnati, but know they are within reasonable driving distance (maybe 100 miles or so). Plus with gas prices spiking at that time, it's possible there was some shady business, or maybe it was just that the tanks are old and they may have just been delivered fresh product that stirred up the yuckies. Who really knows what that stuff was, they mysteriously lost the filter with the gunk in it, probably the same fate as the test results I asked for (file 13'd).


Oh well, at least I have been enlightened on the effects of "stuff" on the mechanical parts in my car. Once again, thanks a ton. I really appreciate you taking the time to be so indepth and thorough in the explanations to my questions. That was super cool, bro. You'd be awesome at giving depositions. Well, it's 5pm and I haven't slept in two days. I'm heading to bed for a couple or 12 hours. All my gratitude ~ Christopher
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#12 Consumer Comment

I had a similar problem

AUTHOR: Thomas - (U.S.A.)

in 1984 or 1985. I drove my wife's 1981 Citation into an East Hartford CT gas station to fill its tank. We lived in Avon CT and I forget why I was driving my wife's 1981 Citation that day. Anyway, I shut off the engine, filled the tank, paid the bill, started the engine, and drove off. I was 100+ feet down the road from the gas station when the Citation died. I got out of the car and then I noticed a woman walking toward me. There was another car on my side of the road behind her. She got maybe 150 feet away from the gas station.

We walked back to the gas station to join three other drivers at the cashier's window. Then I noticed a hose pouring water across the gas station's concrete while the gas storage tank's cover was open. Where was the water from the hose going? You are correct if you guessed the water was going into the gas storage tank. So the gas company paid us $350 to have the Citation's carburetor rebuilt and the gas tank removed and cleaned.

So I agree that 3 miles is an excessively long distance for a vehicle to travel if its gas contains a lot of water.

My sense of Christopher's tone in his post, especially his last post, suggests to me that he really wants to believe that his problem is 7-11's fault, that he can pay the $15,000 [which seems grossly excessive to me] because he believes 7-11 will then pay him the $15,000, and then I fear he will be disappointed when his claim against 7-11 fails and he is left with a very large and empty $15,000 bag.

My impression is that Christopher wants to believe that his car could not possibly have suffered an unrelated failure. Maybe he should do some more web surfing.... find some dealers who sell crate engines online and get their prices. Visit some auto gearhead sites for opinions from experienced mechanics to whom he has not told his reasons why he is asking. That $15,000 sounds way too high to me, and I would want to see supporting info before I ever believe it. Heck, I can have a new, high-powered big block marine engine put in my Baja for less than that because I have been thinking of upgrading from 454 power. And boats are a far deeper money pit than ANY car or truck!
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#13 Consumer Comment

One at a time Christopher

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

1) The fact that this happened 3 miles after I fueled my vehicle and left the store is completely coincidental?

Yes, and no. The poor running condition is from the fuel. The white cloud is steam, not bad fuel.

2) The white cloud behind me was smoke and not steam?

No, it is steam. This indicates a loss of coolant from the cooling system. It enters the cylinder(s) and is heated and expelled.

3) The fact that I got 42 miles out of almost 18 gallons isn't due to the fact that it was all water? If the "fuel" was actually mostly water contaminated, the steam may indeed have come from it. I was going on the presumption the contamination was "sludge", which is not water.

4) The fact that computer test showed multiple misfires, random misfires, and the cats failed is all part of a blown gasket?

It can be. But, if the contamination was actually water, the misfires would be from the injectors spraying water and extinguishing any fuel that could ignite. The cats would only actually fail if they were fuel contaminated, not water contaminated. Being wet, the cats would not function, and set off the light. When the water is eliminated, the properly running engine would "relight" the cats and they would function again.

5) The fact that my vehicle quit smoking after I drained and purged my fuel tank is explained by what?

It would be explained by you now saying the contamination was actually water. BTW, those gas drier additives don't do anything. Getting rid of the water will eliminate the steam issue.

6) Do I have to use OEM Isuzu parts to keep my 100,000 mile extended warranty?

No. The Moss-Magnuson Act requires Isuzu to PROVE the use of aftermarket parts is detrimental to the vehicle. Unless you are increasing the engine's power, you can use any part store's replacement parts.

7) My vehicle isn't as highly tuned as they are making it out to be and can handle anything, including the red, clumpy, diahrea looking substance we drained out?

No. The engine is only designed to run on gasoline and air. Eliminating the water and the sludge that accompanied it, is the first step. Flushing the entire fuel system is the second step. It should run fine after that is done. This is also assuming the amount of water entering the cylinders did not cause "Hydrostatic Lock". This occurs when the amount of water is greater than the size of the cumbustion chamber, and the piston(s) literally lock instead of continuing their cycle. Water does NOT compress. If "HL" occurred while the engine was running at a high enough speed, it can bend connecting rods. THAT would require replacemnet of the engine.

8) My catalytic converters fell apart because of what? (the "combs" were completely broken and falling out the end).

This is not due to water contamination. When the cats break up, it's due to fracture. This is normally caused by something hard impacting the outer shell, and creating a shock to the substrate. It can also be cause by excessive heat, which would NOT occur when there is enough water in the cylinder to forma steam cloud. Steam is much cooler than fire. Your converters actually are covered by the manufacturers warranty up to 8 yrs/80K miles. If you have less than that, have them replaced FREE. Also, there are 2 TSB's concerning the use of aftermarket alarms on your truck. They tend to cause multi-cylinder misfires and converter damage. Look into that. The dealership CAN void the converter warranty if you have an improperly installed alarm. Again, water will NOT damage a converter. Only fuel will. Misfires can dump unburned fuel into the cats. If there was so much water in the fuel as to cause the engine to steam and not run(as you indicate), the fuel would not have been an issue at THIS time. It could have been a cause if the engine was misfiring previously. If there is no eveidence of a previous run problem, force them to replace the cats under warranty.

9) I had my car serviced and fluids checked 10 days before it completely shut down, but the dealership said there was no oil in it (save about 1 quart). Would a blown headgasket be the culprit?

It could be. There are both oil and water passages that the head gasket seals. Both sets of passages are just outside of the fire-rings in the gasket.

10) If so, why was it intermittent? I had the problem when I left 7-11, then 9 months later.

Trash can actually fill in the holes in a head gasket. Flushing a cooling system will often times dislodge the blockage and suddenly cause the head gasket issue to be revealed. This is also the time the customer blames the mechanic for doing "something" that caused it to happen. Most factories even have "stop-leak" added to the cooling systems. This simply allows the leaks to be sealed until the sytem gets flushed.

11) Could the dealership just be playing my emotions with 7-11 since I'm already incensed with them, so that they don't have to foot a very costly warranty repair?

Could be. The actual MSRP on both the 3.2/3.5 engines is $5163.68. That's still a far cry from $8800. There is a TSB on that issue also.

12) I tried looking up the headgasket failure on all the consumer sites and couldn't find anything but praises for the 2004 Rodeo with the 3.5L Direct Injection. Could you point me to that site so I'll have some ammo?

There is no actual TSB or recall about it on your truck. This comes simply from working on them. The cooling system is marginal at best, and when the engine gats hot for even a very short time, the damage is done. The aluminum heads warp very easily, allowing the seal between the head and block to let go. The factory simply calls it operator error. It's sort of like Toyota and the oil sytem issues with their V6 engines.

13) I would like to have your email address so I can further discuss my issue, how can I give you mine for follow-up?

ED doesn't allow it. My fax is (((ROR REDACTED FAX NUMBER FOR SECURITY PURPOSES))). If you can fax me the paperwork the dealership/shop/whoever has your truck has, I can look at it and send it back. I can assure you the dealership is taking advantage of you.

14) I found another complaint against 7-11 the week before my incident, this one was in Cincinnati, Ohio. Any chance they get their fuel from the same distributor?

It's possible, but not probable. Most convenient stores purchase their fuels on the open market. They get it from the lowest bidder. A distributor in Ohio would not be providing fuels to Oklahoma. They may use the same company to purchase the fuel however, and you may wish to look into that option.

Good luck.


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#14 Author of original report

Thanx for the 411 Robert

AUTHOR: Christopher - (U.S.A.)

I appreciate your taking the time to go over this with me, as I'm illiterate when it comes to auto mechanics. I just need to go over this one last time to make sure I have everything correct before I take my soapbox down to the dealership where my car is sitting inoperable.

1) The fact that this happened 3 miles after I fueled my vehicle and left the store is completely coincidental?
2) The white cloud behind me was smoke and not steam?
3) The fact that I got 42 miles out of almost 18 gallons isn't due to the fact that it was all water?
4) The fact that computer test showed multiple misfires, random misfires, and the cats failed is all part of a blown gasket?
5) The fact that my vehicle quit smoking after I drained and purged my fuel tank is explained by what?
6) Do I have to use OEM Isuzu parts to keep my 100,000 mile extended warranty?
7) My vehicle isn't as highly tuned as they are making it out to be and can handle anything, including the red, clumpy, diahrea looking substance we drained out?
8) My catalytic converters fell apart because of what? (the "combs" were completely broken and falling out the end)
9) I had my car serviced and fluids checked 10 days before it completely shut down, but the dealership said there was no oil in it (save about 1 quart). Would a blown headgasket be the culprit?
10) If so, why was it intermittent? I had the problem when I left 7-11, then 9 months later.
11) Could the dealership just be playing my emotions with 7-11 since I'm already incensed with them, so that they don't have to foot a very costly warranty repair?
12) I tried looking up the headgasket failure on all the consumer sites and couldn't find anything but praises for the 2004 Rodeo with the 3.5L Direct Injection. Could you point me to that site so I'll have some ammo?
13) I would like to have your email address so I can further discuss my issue, how can I give you mine for follow-up?
14) I found another complaint against 7-11 the week before my incident, this one was in Cincinnati, Ohio. Any chance they get their fuel from the same distributor?

That's all I can think of right now, I've been up all night researching what you all have given me to work with. I truly do appreciate all your time and assistance. Once again, HUGE thanks! Christopher

P.S.
I have a (((ROR REDACTED E-MAIL ADDRESS FOR SECURITY PURPOSES))), if that helps.


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#15 Author of original report

Thanx for the 411 Robert

AUTHOR: Christopher - (U.S.A.)

I appreciate your taking the time to go over this with me, as I'm illiterate when it comes to auto mechanics. I just need to go over this one last time to make sure I have everything correct before I take my soapbox down to the dealership where my car is sitting inoperable.

1) The fact that this happened 3 miles after I fueled my vehicle and left the store is completely coincidental?
2) The white cloud behind me was smoke and not steam?
3) The fact that I got 42 miles out of almost 18 gallons isn't due to the fact that it was all water?
4) The fact that computer test showed multiple misfires, random misfires, and the cats failed is all part of a blown gasket?
5) The fact that my vehicle quit smoking after I drained and purged my fuel tank is explained by what?
6) Do I have to use OEM Isuzu parts to keep my 100,000 mile extended warranty?
7) My vehicle isn't as highly tuned as they are making it out to be and can handle anything, including the red, clumpy, diahrea looking substance we drained out?
8) My catalytic converters fell apart because of what? (the "combs" were completely broken and falling out the end)
9) I had my car serviced and fluids checked 10 days before it completely shut down, but the dealership said there was no oil in it (save about 1 quart). Would a blown headgasket be the culprit?
10) If so, why was it intermittent? I had the problem when I left 7-11, then 9 months later.
11) Could the dealership just be playing my emotions with 7-11 since I'm already incensed with them, so that they don't have to foot a very costly warranty repair?
12) I tried looking up the headgasket failure on all the consumer sites and couldn't find anything but praises for the 2004 Rodeo with the 3.5L Direct Injection. Could you point me to that site so I'll have some ammo?
13) I would like to have your email address so I can further discuss my issue, how can I give you mine for follow-up?
14) I found another complaint against 7-11 the week before my incident, this one was in Cincinnati, Ohio. Any chance they get their fuel from the same distributor?

That's all I can think of right now, I've been up all night researching what you all have given me to work with. I truly do appreciate all your time and assistance. Once again, HUGE thanks! Christopher

P.S.
I have a (((ROR REDACTED E-MAIL ADDRESS FOR SECURITY PURPOSES))), if that helps.


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#16 Author of original report

Thanx for the 411 Robert

AUTHOR: Christopher - (U.S.A.)

I appreciate your taking the time to go over this with me, as I'm illiterate when it comes to auto mechanics. I just need to go over this one last time to make sure I have everything correct before I take my soapbox down to the dealership where my car is sitting inoperable.

1) The fact that this happened 3 miles after I fueled my vehicle and left the store is completely coincidental?
2) The white cloud behind me was smoke and not steam?
3) The fact that I got 42 miles out of almost 18 gallons isn't due to the fact that it was all water?
4) The fact that computer test showed multiple misfires, random misfires, and the cats failed is all part of a blown gasket?
5) The fact that my vehicle quit smoking after I drained and purged my fuel tank is explained by what?
6) Do I have to use OEM Isuzu parts to keep my 100,000 mile extended warranty?
7) My vehicle isn't as highly tuned as they are making it out to be and can handle anything, including the red, clumpy, diahrea looking substance we drained out?
8) My catalytic converters fell apart because of what? (the "combs" were completely broken and falling out the end)
9) I had my car serviced and fluids checked 10 days before it completely shut down, but the dealership said there was no oil in it (save about 1 quart). Would a blown headgasket be the culprit?
10) If so, why was it intermittent? I had the problem when I left 7-11, then 9 months later.
11) Could the dealership just be playing my emotions with 7-11 since I'm already incensed with them, so that they don't have to foot a very costly warranty repair?
12) I tried looking up the headgasket failure on all the consumer sites and couldn't find anything but praises for the 2004 Rodeo with the 3.5L Direct Injection. Could you point me to that site so I'll have some ammo?
13) I would like to have your email address so I can further discuss my issue, how can I give you mine for follow-up?
14) I found another complaint against 7-11 the week before my incident, this one was in Cincinnati, Ohio. Any chance they get their fuel from the same distributor?

That's all I can think of right now, I've been up all night researching what you all have given me to work with. I truly do appreciate all your time and assistance. Once again, HUGE thanks! Christopher

P.S.
I have a (((ROR REDACTED E-MAIL ADDRESS FOR SECURITY PURPOSES))), if that helps.


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#17 Author of original report

Thanx for the 411 Robert

AUTHOR: Christopher - (U.S.A.)

I appreciate your taking the time to go over this with me, as I'm illiterate when it comes to auto mechanics. I just need to go over this one last time to make sure I have everything correct before I take my soapbox down to the dealership where my car is sitting inoperable.

1) The fact that this happened 3 miles after I fueled my vehicle and left the store is completely coincidental?
2) The white cloud behind me was smoke and not steam?
3) The fact that I got 42 miles out of almost 18 gallons isn't due to the fact that it was all water?
4) The fact that computer test showed multiple misfires, random misfires, and the cats failed is all part of a blown gasket?
5) The fact that my vehicle quit smoking after I drained and purged my fuel tank is explained by what?
6) Do I have to use OEM Isuzu parts to keep my 100,000 mile extended warranty?
7) My vehicle isn't as highly tuned as they are making it out to be and can handle anything, including the red, clumpy, diahrea looking substance we drained out?
8) My catalytic converters fell apart because of what? (the "combs" were completely broken and falling out the end)
9) I had my car serviced and fluids checked 10 days before it completely shut down, but the dealership said there was no oil in it (save about 1 quart). Would a blown headgasket be the culprit?
10) If so, why was it intermittent? I had the problem when I left 7-11, then 9 months later.
11) Could the dealership just be playing my emotions with 7-11 since I'm already incensed with them, so that they don't have to foot a very costly warranty repair?
12) I tried looking up the headgasket failure on all the consumer sites and couldn't find anything but praises for the 2004 Rodeo with the 3.5L Direct Injection. Could you point me to that site so I'll have some ammo?
13) I would like to have your email address so I can further discuss my issue, how can I give you mine for follow-up?
14) I found another complaint against 7-11 the week before my incident, this one was in Cincinnati, Ohio. Any chance they get their fuel from the same distributor?

That's all I can think of right now, I've been up all night researching what you all have given me to work with. I truly do appreciate all your time and assistance. Once again, HUGE thanks! Christopher

P.S.
I have a (((ROR REDACTED E-MAIL ADDRESS FOR SECURITY PURPOSES))), if that helps.


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#18 Consumer Comment

HOLY MOLY!!!!

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

You have got to be kidding me! Did you even bother to call another shop and ask for pricing?

The injectors list out at $83 each from NAPA. The fuel pump is $169. The direct fit converter assemblies are just under $400 each side. An $8800 engine? It's a Honda engine, and Honda doesn't even charge that much at their dealerships. Plus, the engine comes with EVERYTHING, except oil and coolant. This means it already has ALL of the injectors installed when it gets unpacked. Wherever you took your truck to, is screwing you very badly. The engine lists out at about $4500. The shop gets a 20% discount, unless it's a dealership. In that case, they buy it for 1/2.

OMG! I cannot even imagine doing to my customers what this shop is doing to you. I am getting dizzy just thinking of it.

The white smoke would have been from a bad head gasket and/or cracked head(s). Head gasket failures are common for the 3.5L motors. There is NOTHING bad fuel will do that will damage ANYTHING. It won't even mess up the injectors. They have fine mesh screens on top of them, to prevent any foreign material from damaging them. The fuel pump, lines, rail, and injectors can all be flushed clean within a couple hours labor. Dropping the fuel tank and steaming it takes a few more. One days worth of effort would have taken care of the entire fuel issue. At $60/hour, you'd be looking at $600 or less.

Converters are self cleaning. Blown head gaskets do NOT damage them. Water does NOTHING to them. Neither does coolant. The shop your truck is at is the real ripoff, not 7-11. They may have had problems with the fuel, but the shop with your truck is just flat out F**KING you.
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#19 Author of original report

I need more information

AUTHOR: Christopher - (U.S.A.)

THank you for your responses. The motor and install are $8800, my catalytic converters were $820 each, the 5 injectors that were ruined were $475 each, the fuel system, pump, and controller were over $1800, the 3 weeks of car rentals cost me $750, not to mention the lost surveillance contracts, missed days at the office, and the parts and tools purchased on the road.

Plus there's the deminished gas mileage issue, it's been rediculous. Would a blown head gasket make my catalytic converters clog up and ruin? Or foul up my injectors and ruin my fuel pump? I know nothing about automobiles, other than gas, oil, and tire rotations.

I'm now looking at over $15,000 plus. My technician stated that the fuel in the lines (that hadn't been contaminated) was what got me the 3 miles before chaos insued. We did drain the tank after we found a fuel filter to fit my vehicle.

The 2004 Isuzu Rodeo with the 3.5 liter direct injection motor isn't an easy find for parts (nothing goes wrong with them, unless you get bad gas). We had less than 1/4 tank of gas when we stopped at the 7-11, I put 13 gallons in, we made it 42 miles before we found a filter and drained the remaining 1/4 gallon to 1/2 gallon of red sludge. 42 miles out of a full tank.

That tells me that the only gas in my tank is what I had before we stopped at the 7-11. The only thing from the auto stores that I'm counting on is the engine codes they pulled off of my car. "Multiple Misfire, Random Misfire, Cat Sensor Bank #1, Cat Sensor Bank #2, and a five others.

My vehicle had 27,000 miles on it at the time, I was using Mobil 1 synthetic oil, and babied the truck like it was my only form of transportation. In the year I had my vehicle prior to this incident, the only problem I had was the cd player wouldn't load into slot 6, that's it.

If it was a blown head gasket, great! I can have my warranty cover the repairs, but even with my limited knowledge of auto mechanics, I know this was just a very bad case of some very bad gas.

I'll call the dealership tomorrow and speak with my technician about that possibility and see what he says. He gets paid the same either way. Once again, I appreciate your input and assistance.

Sincerely ~ Christopher
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#20 Consumer Comment

Stunning to say the least

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

The business next door has torn a few diesel engines up, and they cost about $14000 each. These were the result of pure abuse, nothing else.

I cannot even think of an engine that would cost anywhere near that amount for a noncommercial vehicle.

I also cannot imagine how bad gas can destroy anything. At the worst, it would simply require replacing the fuel filter, and cleaning the fuel rail(s) and injectors. The pump would be unharmed as it doesn't care what it's pumping.

Someone is blowing smoke at you Christopher. I have drained and cleaned Pancake Syrup out of gas tanks and engine oil pans, with no serious damage done to either system. Sugar is kids' stuff. Syrup does amazing things. It actually flows through filters.

Have the tank removed and steam cleaned. Replace the fuel filter AFTER having the lines flushed. Remove and flush the fuel rails, and have the injectors cleaned, or replaced. None of this will cost more than a few hundred dollars...a Thousand at the most.
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#21 Consumer Suggestion

Threee miles sounds fishy.

AUTHOR: Mike - (U.S.A.)

Fuel injection systems recirculate the gas constantly. If you put bad gas in it will hit the engine within seconds, before you even leave the parking lot. Since you went three miles, it sounds like something else went wrong and you're blaming it on bad gas. White smoke and running bad is the classic blown head gasket.

There is always some water and sludge in the bottom of a gas tank. As long as it doesn't go anywhere it won't cause a problem but it looks awful when draining it. But if it really was bad gas you could've mitigated most possible damage to the engine by draining the tank immediately instead of continuing to drive.

Don't use Autozone, Advance, or Wal-Mart for expertise on how to repair your car. The guy who charged you $14,000 wasn't a good choice either.
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#22 Consumer Comment

Christopher,

AUTHOR: D - (U.S.A.)

You may want to have your repair shop looked into about possably over charging you for repairs. How on earth are they justifying $14,000 of work on a car that had a MSRP of around $25,000 fully loaded? I would think a whole new engine, fuel lines and gas tank would only be $10,000 tops. So where do they come up with $14,000? Robert in Jacksonville, maybe you can help us out on this one. Please keep us informed.
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#23 Consumer Comment

Christopher,

AUTHOR: D - (U.S.A.)

You may want to have your repair shop looked into about possably over charging you for repairs. How on earth are they justifying $14,000 of work on a car that had a MSRP of around $25,000 fully loaded? I would think a whole new engine, fuel lines and gas tank would only be $10,000 tops. So where do they come up with $14,000? Robert in Jacksonville, maybe you can help us out on this one. Please keep us informed.
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#24 Consumer Comment

Christopher,

AUTHOR: D - (U.S.A.)

You may want to have your repair shop looked into about possably over charging you for repairs. How on earth are they justifying $14,000 of work on a car that had a MSRP of around $25,000 fully loaded? I would think a whole new engine, fuel lines and gas tank would only be $10,000 tops. So where do they come up with $14,000? Robert in Jacksonville, maybe you can help us out on this one. Please keep us informed.
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