American Kennel Club don't call or complain to them Raleigh North Carolina

I just got ripped off by a top Basenji breeder Meisterhaus- A Tad Brooks for $1500.00Us. He sold me a dog no contract..I provided proof wit a bank draft with ourchase of dog on it and the dogs name ...they said we can't help you take him to court. Just aw well to buy a dog from a backyard breeder

Did you miss the part where I said it locks in good AND bad traits?

You said it yourself - incest is a HUMAN term. The definition is sexual intercourse between two closely related persons. It is not applicable to animals because they have no such "taboo" as humans do. Hence, using "incest" in relation to dog breeding is incorrect. When you do use it, you are simply anthropomorphizing (attributing human traits to animals) and while dogs are special to many people, they still AREN'T human.

As far as the rest of your post, I never said that it wasn't risky to use linebreeding/inbreeding in dogs. I have no idea where you got that from. I did say that it should only be used by breeders with a full understanding of the genetics involved. My response to Becky was regarding her assertions that the AKC advocates the use of linebreeding/inbreeding.

Your complete dismissal of linebreeding/inbreeding is troubling considering that many of the breeds we have today would not be around without it. The Lowchen, for example, can be traced back to 3 dogs. The Shiba Inu comes from the only 3 bloodlines that remained after WW2. Without the proper use of linebreeding & inbreeding, these breeds would have become extinct. Used correctly, it is a valuable tool. Using your own example of lethal traits, it is better to identify that a line HAS lethal traits than to let it lie dormant for ages. If it's identified, it can be eliminated. Used by someone who has no idea of the genetics behind their dogs, it can cause more problems than it solves.

If you are going to condemn linebreeding/inbreeding, you may as well condemn outcrossing as well. It can introduce previously unknown and potentially dangerous traits into a bloodline. It can produce a lack of uniformity in the litter and in breeds with smaller gene pools, it is virtually impossible to do a complete outcross.

I'm not sure how you came to the assumption that I am not well-informed about genetics by reading only one of my posts. I didn't go into detail about the consequences of using linebreeding/inbreeding because it wasn't necessary to prove my point. Rest assured, I am very well versed in canine genetics and I know a whole lot more about it than you assume I do.

In response to P from Colorado Springs I would like to point out that you are incorrect by saying there is no such thing as incest in the animal kingdom. Incest is a term that humans have coined to mean sex between family members and there is a very good reason why it is illegal for humans. This reason is the same reason why it is also dangerous for dogs to be bred with members of their family.

While you define inbreeding or "linebreeding" (which is just a prettier word for an ugly concept)as a way to lock in positive traits, it also works in the other way locking in negative traits. Many dangerous mutations are what you call "recessive" traits meaning that they will not show up when they are paired with a "dominant" gene.

However; when you mate two animals from the same blood line, there is a higher probability that they both harbor these dangerous recessive traits which can then be paired and result in genetic malformations resulting in death or illness. I don't care what your reasoning, messing with genetics will inevitably result in heartache and there is NO CIRCUMSTANCE under which it is ok to breed closely related animals. If you think there is then you really need to do a little more research on genetics. If you have any questions about what I have said (it is difficult to explain simply) please feel free to ask, I am happy to help.

Becky,

Have you actually researched the effects of linebreeding? Since you used the word "incest", I'm assuming you haven't. Incest does not exist in the world of animals, it is strictly a human concept.

Linebreeding/inbreeding is simply a means of locking in certain genetic traits. That means it locks in good AND bad traits. It should only be done by someone who knows and understands the genetics of their dogs.

Becky said: "AKC thinks it is OKAY to breed close RELATIVES"

No, they have never said that. The AKC's stance on linebreeding/inbreeding is this:

"...we would expect that only very experienced breeders would consider inbreeding and line breeding. However, there is no rule that prohibits inbreeding and line breeding; this is left to the discretion of individual breeders."

So, while there is no rule prohibiting it (which is NOT the same as saying it's okay), the AKC states that it should be done carefully with a full understanding of the genetics involved.

As for your comment about breed club referral lines, they refer people to others who are members of the breed club. They receive a listing of all members who's litters have met with the specific guidelines of the club and those are the people that they refer puppy buyers to. If you aren't a member of the breed club or you haven't met the requirements (usually genetic health testing of the parents), you will not be listed. It's not a snob thing, it's a breed health thing.

And to Judy, I've made many suggestions to the AKC over the past 23 years and I've never had them come after me. I've won at dog shows and I'm hardly "in the group." Every judge has a different interpretation of the standard. What YOU think might be the "best dog entered" may be totally different from what the judge thinks the best dog entered is. In addition, a lot of people are "kennel blind" when it comes to the faults of their own dogs. They don't see anything wrong with their dogs and they think that they have the best dog entered, which may or may not be true. It comes down to knowing what they judge likes in a particular breed and knowing what your dogs faults are. That's how dog shows are judged, it's not a random thing or favoritism thing as you suggest.

Your descriptions of the AKC's policies are completely false. My show dogs are rolling around in the backyard right now. Yesterday, they were running full-blast through the 20 acre dog park. They aren't kept in cages and I still show them. I'd like you to show me where exactly the AKC says I can't show them because of that. 95% of the show dogs out there are just regular dogs when they aren't being shown. They dig holes, roll in the mud, and sleep on the bed.

I also would like you to show me where they say c-sections are okay. C-sections are necessary in some breeds of dogs - Chihuahua's being one of them. C-sections are not butchering and in MANY cases save the lives of both the female and her pups.

AKC doesn't care about anything but show dogs? Really? Did you know that they are considering adding performance events (obedience, rally, tracking, etc) for mixed breed dogs? What the AKC cares about is the health and well-being of the dogs. The rules and guidelines they have put in place are there to protect ALL dogs, not just "show" dogs.

perhaps AKC is not aware of the biased snobs that run the Dog Breed Clubs. The referaals people are just breeders and refer buyers to their friends

Read about Morgan Chihuahuas!A show breeder who sold two puppies with liver shunts and leaves the buyer without any refund or even support.

The show breeders line breed and inbreed and bring about more defects in closely bred dogs and AKC thinks it is OKAY to breed close RELATIVES
They do not care as long as the relatives are AKC registered!

READ THEIR BOOK

AKC goes so far as to explain exactly what they mean by saying it is okay to breed sister to brother or son to mother, etc...as long as all are AKC registered

Hopefully the AKC breeders do not follow that awful advise!


AKC needs to change that rule and teach their breeders NOT to breed that way

INCEST with dogs is fine with akc

BREEDERS JOIN OTHER CLUBS THAT DO NOT ALLOW THIS KIND OF BREEDING

PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BUY A LIVING BREATHING ANYTHING THEY CANNOT SEE TOUCH FEEL. SELLING PUPPIES OVER THE INTERNET IS LIKE BUYING A USED CAR OVER THE INTERNET. LOOK PEOPLE, IF YOU LIVE IN A RURAL CITY GO TO THE NEAREST BIG CITY TALK TO VETS. OUR PET STORE IN OUR TOWN THAT DOESNT SELL DOGS,EVERY THURSDAY THEY HAVE 20-40 PUPPIES TO GIVE AWAY.

ADOPT A PET. OR BUY FROM A REPUTABLE BREEDER. DONT DEPEND ON AKC OR FANCY ADVERTISING TACTICS TO MAKE YOUR CHOICE ON A COMMITMENT TO A PUPPY FOR THE NEXT 15-18 YEARS OF YOURS AND HIS/HERS/ LIFE. ALSO FLYING A PUPPY SUCH AS A PUG,SHIHTZU,FLAT FACE YOU ARE ASKING FOR TROUBLE. BUT YOU ARE THE CONSUMER. THINK ABOUT IT. READ AND STUDY ABOUT ANYTHING YOU ARE GOING TO PURCHASE. AS FAR AS PEOPLE WHO TURN THE OTHER WAY WHEN BAD THINGS ARE HAPPENING TO THE UNFORTANUTE WRITE YOUR CONGRESSMAN.GET INVOLVED!!!