• Report: #194961

Complaint Review: Army National Guard

  • Submitted: Mon, June 05, 2006
  • Updated: Sat, January 24, 2009

  • Reported By:Oxford Alabama
Army National Guard
www.arng.army.mil Nationwide U.S.A.

Army National Guard Misleading advertisement Nationwide

*Consumer Comment: Reserves ect....

*Consumer Comment: Wondered where you went to James

*Consumer Suggestion: to Stephanie: Don't listen to the fools

*UPDATE Employee: how did you become a officer

*Consumer Comment: I Agree with the Statement Above

*Consumer Comment: Interesting Thread

*UPDATE Employee: What is wrong with you people?

*UPDATE Employee: What is wrong with you people?

*UPDATE Employee: What is wrong with you people?

*Consumer Suggestion: Suggested solutions from a former MSgt.

*Consumer Comment: Give me a break

*Consumer Comment: WOW

*Author of original report: Guys...

*Author of original report: Guys...

*Author of original report: Guys...

*Consumer Suggestion: Her point is legitimate, although I don't necessarily agree with it

*Consumer Suggestion: Hmm, a lotta trashin goin on here

*Consumer Suggestion: Hmm, a lotta trashin goin on here

*Consumer Suggestion: Hmm, a lotta trashin goin on here

*Consumer Suggestion: Hmm, a lotta trashin goin on here

*Consumer Comment: That's Why It's Called A "Leadership" Position

*Consumer Comment: I'm finished

*Consumer Comment: Served in OIF

*Consumer Comment: Whatever, people.

*Consumer Comment: I agree with Robert...

*Consumer Comment: Unreasonable expectations

*Consumer Comment: A discredit to the U.S Military

*Consumer Comment: Robert please read BEFORE you reply

*Consumer Comment: Wonderful, Jane

*Consumer Comment: Thanks for the warning

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Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful to live in this country and feel privileged to have served in the United States armed forces. However, shouldn't you know what you're getting into before you sign a contract? This is to give people a true glimpse before they commit.

I served 4 years on active duty in the Army as an officer and was given the option to serve the next 4 years in the Individual Ready Reserve, on active duty, in the National Guard, or in the Reserves. I chose the National Guard. After all, it was just supposed to be one weekend a month and 15 additional days throughout the year, right? WRONG.

Okay, maybe for E-4/ Specialist and below and maybe physically that's all that's required of you. But if you are an E-5/Sergeant or above, including officers, you will be in leadership positions and in between drills you will have phone calls, conference calls and e-mail messages. And you aren't paid for that time you spend on that. The higher your rank, the more that's expected of you, regardless of the compensation.

The only way you won't be run ragged is if you are full time Active Guard Reserve. That way you can do your full time Guard job and your part time Guard job simultaneously. If you have a civilian job AND are in the Guard, unfortunately the rest of your life will suffer.

Stephanie
Oxford, Alabama
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 06/05/2006 11:52 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Army-National-Guard/nationwide/Army-National-Guard-Misleading-advertisement-Nationwide-194961. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 Consumer Comment

Reserves ect....

AUTHOR: thestumps - ()

Yup, I fell into the Reserves trap.  I totally regret having been wishy washy in my youth and joined up in the Marine Corps Reserves.  I keep thinking about the time I walked into the recruiters office and signed up for the reserves.  Why?  Because I met this guy on the bus that talked about him being in the reserves, and I wanted to do the same, go to boot camp and be a Marine, and at the same token, have a chance to continue college.  At the time, only doing Marines part time sounded good to me, and not fully committed, but little did I truly know how things operated. 

What I didn't know at the time was that reserve benefits differ greatly from active duty benefits.  How stupid and wrong could I have been?  Only thing I can say is that my mind was so made up in joining and wanting to do this that I was blind to the ZERO BENEFITS portion of it even though I signed the contract.

So I suffered till this day in having had no help with the VA in anything, no educational benefits, no burial benefits when I die, no home loans, job assistance.  Another words, no veteran benefits.  I am not even classified a veteran.  So was all this a waste of time??? 

But it was all really my fault.  I am ashamed to even mention my service.  Even though I fullfilled my contract and got an honorable discharge, I truly wish I could have done something different to change my status.  I got out in 1985 from active reserves and got my discharge in 1988, so I missed a call up to Gulf War in 1990, but at that time, that is not where my mind was.  I was working military contract, in fact, ended up in the Gulf War as a civilian with descent pay but looking back on it now, I wish I could have served with the Marines during that time just so I could claim veteran status.

I never did anything to right this wrong and just continue to live with my mistake.  On the positive note, I did learn some discipline, I did learn a trade in communications though I never used it in civilian life.  I was a Field Radio Operator.  I did gain employment by showing my honorable discharge from time to time, and I am successful today as a career aircraft mechanic.  (Which I paid for on my own from money saved working shipboard, and no va educational benefits at all.) I worked for the MPS program on board vessels and saw the world, including Korea, Honduras, and Desert Storm with the Marines on a Marine Corps contract, but after all that, still no veteran status nor benefits ever came from it.

Inadvertantly, things happen for a reason, and maybe, though far from pretty,  I did things my way.  I learned via searching on the internet for years that various WWII groups were granted veteran status pretty much based on what I've done as a military contractor, and being in armed conflicts.  I have thought about trying to state my case, but I think that will be a very long shot, with congressional approval.  Seems like WWII civilians got awarded and given veteran status, but none during Korea, Vietnam and Persian Gulf wars.  I aim to try it one day to see what kind of response I get.   Examples of WWII groups gaining veteran status are the Merchant Marines, the Women's Air Services Program, Flying Tigers, and Filipino scouts to name a few.

Reserves is good for those that had prior military active duty.  To go in otherwise is a complete waste of time and effort.  Only thing that can change the status to veteranship in that case is a call to active duty by presidential order as in the case of Desert Storm and OIF.  I didn't think 20 in the reserves was worth a looking into and never considered it.  I think its crazy to have to wait till your 60 to draw anything of it.  When active duty gets it right away.  I just didn't see the justification. 

So as I mentioned, things happen for a reason.  Maybe my status of never being able to fall back on VA benefits I could never rate has pushed me to excell as a civilian.  I was forced to "Find another way" besides going back into the military to right a wroing I made as a young confused and misguided man.      

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#2 Consumer Comment

Wondered where you went to James

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

James is of course, the nutcase who believes the US provided Germany with ammo and vehicles during WW2. He also believes German U-Boats patrolled the lakes and rivers in Canada. He's a lot of laughs.

Nobody else remembers the Avro Arrow. He seems strangley devoted to it. It was a good plane, but his Govt decided to rely on the US for it's main line of defense. It also was not anything spectacular technologywise. The F100 was superior in most aspects, and the main reason nobody else ever picked up the R&D costs of the Arrow. Delta wing figters have very limited use. Air superiority requires a less stable platform.

He also works for(and defends) a business reported numerous times in here, that constantly rips off other people.

No James, I do not go anywhere to recruit anyone. In fact, my Guard unit is very top heavy. The average rank is Sgt(E5), and average GT score is 119. You must be at least 110 to get into it. Mine is 131. The OIC, NCOIC, Plt Sgt, CO, and everyone else have constant contact with each other through cellphones, and emails. None of complains about our duties. Why would someone join the military and then complain about doing what is expected? They do not. Nobody lied to her. She is just one of those who joined for the education bennies. Tough!

If she wants out, repay every penny we(the US taxpayers) have wasted on you. BTW James...considering your entire country has fewer military personnel than the USMC has by itself, why do you constantly try to impress us with your military knowledge? Kuwait has a larger force than Canada.
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#3 Consumer Suggestion

to Stephanie: Don't listen to the fools

AUTHOR: Avro Arrow - (Canada)

Stephanie, most of us know about the scamming that the forces employ simply because they can get away with it. Ever notice how politicians always seem to think that service in the forces is a good idea and honorable until it's THEIR child that's in question? I bet people like Robert and Aafes are probably recruiting sergeants that go to the low-income areas of America and send the poor over to Iraq to get killed because that's how America deals with its poverty issue. The propaganda artists are everywhere along with the people with so little brains that they'd barely make corporal.
It just sounds to me like a bunch of brainwashed hillbillies or paid army propagandists that are attacking you. I say BRAVO for being honest and telling others not to believe the hype.

Don't you find it funny how in the ads for the army or the national guard they never show an American soldier being blown up by a roadside bomb outside of Baghdad or an American mother crying at her son's grave?


Yeah, me too.
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#4 UPDATE Employee

how did you become a officer

AUTHOR: Adam - (U.S.A.)

im curious how did you gain your rank? because if you got it though say ROTC then remember all that money they gave you why you went to school. 1000's and 1000's of dollars im sure. also many in the NG get bonus for signing up extending contracts that sorta thing so there is more money. and give me a break about working hours outside of work almost everyone has to at some point if they have a leadership position. dont like it go work fastfood somewhere. you decided to become a officer now carry the resposibilities of your post. your not a E1 your a officer also im curious what is your rank. as a member of the national guard i can tell you there is nothing worse then a whinny officer
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#5 Consumer Comment

I Agree with the Statement Above

AUTHOR: Aline - (U.S.A.)

I could not agree more when you are on the way to finalizing your MSO and you have to attend to more than a part-time obligation, regardless of what the contract says OR how patriotic one is. I figure it is more frustrating when you are trying to get your civilian life together and you see yourself trapped with almost Active Duty work. I just left Active Duty. I only have one year left on my obligation. So, I signed for the NG, because I want to be localized. My husband is in the Reserves and volunteered to get activated on orders. He has a better time 'dealing' with everything since he is with them Full Time. I had my fair share of dirt bags on active duty and have been witnessing more and more in the NG and Reserves. I guess it gets way worse in the NG and Reserves because of the part-time mentality. Some Reserve units have LOADS and I mean LOADS of 'activated' SGMs and Officers who just punch in and out with no real 'mission' but yet, they are there making a full time pay and as we say it, 'riding' it. I understand it may not be an option for you, Stephanie, I personally, would never resign my commission no matter what. But perhaps you should consider going on orders in your unit? It all depends on how your civilian career is going, of course. If they have a need for your services you may be activated for up to 1 yr. But that is just an option. I consulted with my NG unit before reporting for duty and they were EAGER to place me on orders. That goes for Active Duty members as well. If you are unhappy with the way things are going on the RA side of the house, re-enlist NG or Reserves and get ACTIVATED.
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#6 Consumer Comment

Interesting Thread

AUTHOR: Jim - (U.S.A.)

As a Reservist, I can understand the OP (although 12 UTA and AT does not constitute a "dirtbag"--I hope you weren't suggesting that!). But there seem to be some serious misconceptions among some rebuttals.

First, service in the Guard and Reserve is voluntary, not mandatory. Anyone experiencing difficulties with meeting the standard requirements for drills and AT (or other such as PT) may choose to go to "inactive" status at any time. For those who rebutted otherwise, this is not an active duty contact, it is a citizen-soldier, airman, marine or sailor contract, with much different provisions than an active duty contract.

Second, it is a major issue right now about the amount of training and proficiency on the basic schedule. While the subject of doing CBT (computer based training) and other things off of paid status has been brought up, AFRC at least has held the position that an airman cannot be made or directed to perform any military functions while not on a paid military status.

It is important to understand that unless we are on UTA, AT, MPA Orders or RMP, we are not on ANY military status. There is no 24/7 365 for Guard and Reserve unless we are activated or on Active Duty status. Even on UTA, once we swipe at the end of the day, we are off of status and go back to civilian status. That means that regulations prohibit us from even wearing a uniform during our civilian status time. I cannot put on my BDUs and run around town today without violating regulations. I am not on military status today, I am a civilian.

Now, we all do extra things to help out, but the key is that it is convenient when we are not on status. I agree here with the last poster that the civilian career of Guard/Reserve personnel must take precedence (unless called up to active duty). A great many Guard and Reserve units understand this. Typically it is only the prior active duty AGR/ART that have some trouble with this, not always but sometimes, because they are still doing it full-time.

I think it is also important to understand that the majority of people serving in the Guard/Reserve are prior-service. A minority currently are first-termers or Guard/Reserve-only, most have been on active duty prior to switching over to Guard/Reserve.

Last I heard, over 50% of the military personnel currently down range are Guard or Reserve. Yes, our people are out there. And yes, when you have continual cutbacks on the active duty side, you need to tap your part-timers to back fill and augment.

Anyway, back to the original post, I agree that it is extremely difficult to find balance if your unit is taking time from your work day while your boss is breathing down you neck to get a project done. For those who have not done Guard or Reserve, it is not so easy to find balance while wearing two different hats every month. On active duty it is easy, it's 24/7 and it's your job. For Guard and Reserve, it's a part-time job that should compliment your civilian career, not interfer with it.
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#7 UPDATE Employee

What is wrong with you people?

AUTHOR: Ted - (U.S.A.)

I am an officer in the Army National Guard. I just returned from Iraq after serving as a PL of an Infantry platoon. I have 14 years of service, most of it as enlisted. I came into the Army as an E-1 in 1989 active duty and went into the Guard after my initial obligation.

Now, I am not sure what the original posted said because she modified her post. But, from what exists now I cannot understand the negative tone of some of the comments. Why are you attacking her?

Being in the Guard IS a bigger commitment than weekends and AT. When you move into leadership it becomes even more time consuming. Period. I believe that was her point and it is valid. Perhaps she could have phrased it a different way, but she is correct. Perhaps she ought to have expected it. Especially as a leader, you know that you will be spending extra time and personal money on soldiers, that's just the way it is. If you're not prepared to do that then you shouldn't be in leadership.

"Suck it up and drive on" is not always the best answer. The fact of the matter is that the Guard is becoming overtaxed and M-Day soldiers are finding it increasingly difficult to stay in. I have lost many good soldiers because of this.

When you have a civilian career, you must put that first. As an M-Day, the Guard does not pay my bills or support my family unless I am deployed. That's just life. The problem comes when the Guard begins to interfere and damage your civilian life. Everyone ought to make the calculation before they join of whether or not they can balance it out. Unfortunately, sometimes situations on either side may change and one may have to be sacrificed. I find myself in a position where I will probably resign my commission and get out. I am running out of options and I hate to do this while going on 15 years service, but sometimes you just can't serve two masters.

Like it or not, this is the situation currently facing the Guard. We need to find a balance, but it may not even be possible. We just don't have enough time to train and administer a unit let alone any leeway on demanding the extra time. That's the problem and it's HUGE. Everyone needs to put those extra hours in just to let the unit sort of function. It's still not enough. Especially if you have AGRs who are worthless. There are some good ones, but there are still a great deal who won't lift a finger to do any honest work.

It's BROKE. Ignoring that won't fix it and if you actually DO believe in what you are doing you need to help fix it. Would I recommend the Guard? Sure. I have. Is it perfect? No.

Oh well... off to drill....:-)
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#8 UPDATE Employee

What is wrong with you people?

AUTHOR: Ted - (U.S.A.)

I am an officer in the Army National Guard. I just returned from Iraq after serving as a PL of an Infantry platoon. I have 14 years of service, most of it as enlisted. I came into the Army as an E-1 in 1989 active duty and went into the Guard after my initial obligation.

Now, I am not sure what the original posted said because she modified her post. But, from what exists now I cannot understand the negative tone of some of the comments. Why are you attacking her?

Being in the Guard IS a bigger commitment than weekends and AT. When you move into leadership it becomes even more time consuming. Period. I believe that was her point and it is valid. Perhaps she could have phrased it a different way, but she is correct. Perhaps she ought to have expected it. Especially as a leader, you know that you will be spending extra time and personal money on soldiers, that's just the way it is. If you're not prepared to do that then you shouldn't be in leadership.

"Suck it up and drive on" is not always the best answer. The fact of the matter is that the Guard is becoming overtaxed and M-Day soldiers are finding it increasingly difficult to stay in. I have lost many good soldiers because of this.

When you have a civilian career, you must put that first. As an M-Day, the Guard does not pay my bills or support my family unless I am deployed. That's just life. The problem comes when the Guard begins to interfere and damage your civilian life. Everyone ought to make the calculation before they join of whether or not they can balance it out. Unfortunately, sometimes situations on either side may change and one may have to be sacrificed. I find myself in a position where I will probably resign my commission and get out. I am running out of options and I hate to do this while going on 15 years service, but sometimes you just can't serve two masters.

Like it or not, this is the situation currently facing the Guard. We need to find a balance, but it may not even be possible. We just don't have enough time to train and administer a unit let alone any leeway on demanding the extra time. That's the problem and it's HUGE. Everyone needs to put those extra hours in just to let the unit sort of function. It's still not enough. Especially if you have AGRs who are worthless. There are some good ones, but there are still a great deal who won't lift a finger to do any honest work.

It's BROKE. Ignoring that won't fix it and if you actually DO believe in what you are doing you need to help fix it. Would I recommend the Guard? Sure. I have. Is it perfect? No.

Oh well... off to drill....:-)
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#9 UPDATE Employee

What is wrong with you people?

AUTHOR: Ted - (U.S.A.)

I am an officer in the Army National Guard. I just returned from Iraq after serving as a PL of an Infantry platoon. I have 14 years of service, most of it as enlisted. I came into the Army as an E-1 in 1989 active duty and went into the Guard after my initial obligation.

Now, I am not sure what the original posted said because she modified her post. But, from what exists now I cannot understand the negative tone of some of the comments. Why are you attacking her?

Being in the Guard IS a bigger commitment than weekends and AT. When you move into leadership it becomes even more time consuming. Period. I believe that was her point and it is valid. Perhaps she could have phrased it a different way, but she is correct. Perhaps she ought to have expected it. Especially as a leader, you know that you will be spending extra time and personal money on soldiers, that's just the way it is. If you're not prepared to do that then you shouldn't be in leadership.

"Suck it up and drive on" is not always the best answer. The fact of the matter is that the Guard is becoming overtaxed and M-Day soldiers are finding it increasingly difficult to stay in. I have lost many good soldiers because of this.

When you have a civilian career, you must put that first. As an M-Day, the Guard does not pay my bills or support my family unless I am deployed. That's just life. The problem comes when the Guard begins to interfere and damage your civilian life. Everyone ought to make the calculation before they join of whether or not they can balance it out. Unfortunately, sometimes situations on either side may change and one may have to be sacrificed. I find myself in a position where I will probably resign my commission and get out. I am running out of options and I hate to do this while going on 15 years service, but sometimes you just can't serve two masters.

Like it or not, this is the situation currently facing the Guard. We need to find a balance, but it may not even be possible. We just don't have enough time to train and administer a unit let alone any leeway on demanding the extra time. That's the problem and it's HUGE. Everyone needs to put those extra hours in just to let the unit sort of function. It's still not enough. Especially if you have AGRs who are worthless. There are some good ones, but there are still a great deal who won't lift a finger to do any honest work.

It's BROKE. Ignoring that won't fix it and if you actually DO believe in what you are doing you need to help fix it. Would I recommend the Guard? Sure. I have. Is it perfect? No.

Oh well... off to drill....:-)
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#10 Consumer Suggestion

Suggested solutions from a former MSgt.

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

For the future: READ THE CONTRACT!

I did, way back in 1972. I asked my recruiter (SSgt d**k Seneca) for a copy of the enlistment contract to take home for review - no problem, he plopped one in my hand that moment (6 or 8 pages long I believe.) 4 weeks later, after getting some questions answered, I enlisted. Officer/enlisted doesn't matter. Ask for a copy of the enlistment contract/commissioning requirements and READ it thoroughly.

Current enlisted: When your enlistment is up - don't re-up!

Current officer: RESIGN your commission (assuming of course you don't have some pesky college education paid for by the government which obligates you for a minimum amount of active service.)
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#11 Consumer Comment

Give me a break

AUTHOR: Stephanie - (U.S.A.)

I guess most of the people who have responded to this are higher-ranking and/or AGR or technicians or recruiters. Well, I apologize for possibly hurting your "numbers."

Doing any job well is draining. I have some enlisted soldiers and officers in my unit that seem to think that because they're M-day (part time), they don't need to be dedicated to the Guard and are just along for the ride. The thought process seems to be, "It's just one weekend a month and 15 days of AT." I would, frankly, rather do without those people. I would rather have 50 good soldiers than 125 dirt bags. I prefer quality over quantity and people that want to be there over people that want to get paid for showing up.
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#12 Consumer Comment

WOW

AUTHOR: Slvrstaln - (U.S.A.)

You claim to be an officer, and a leader of soldiers. You should have expected the calls because that is part of your jobs. Taking care of your soldiers is an officers #1 priority. If you cant handle it then maybe you should have looked into a differant career. I am glad that me and my fellow military personnel can defend your right to trash talk about fellow service members.
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#13 Author of original report

Guys...

AUTHOR: Stephanie - (U.S.A.)

all I'm saying to people who are considering joining the Army National Guard because it's not active duty is, it is not part time, even if you are M-day (a part-timer), and I'm not even including mobilizations/deployments, which are inevitable for almost all units of course. The best thing to do if you want to go in to the ARNG is to do it full time as Active Guard Reserve.

I already donate my time by volunteering with some non-profit organizations for children.

I just thought people should know what they're getting in to before they sign some of their rights away for up to 8 years.
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#14 Author of original report

Guys...

AUTHOR: Stephanie - (U.S.A.)

all I'm saying to people who are considering joining the Army National Guard because it's not active duty is, it is not part time, even if you are M-day (a part-timer), and I'm not even including mobilizations/deployments, which are inevitable for almost all units of course. The best thing to do if you want to go in to the ARNG is to do it full time as Active Guard Reserve.

I already donate my time by volunteering with some non-profit organizations for children.

I just thought people should know what they're getting in to before they sign some of their rights away for up to 8 years.
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#15 Author of original report

Guys...

AUTHOR: Stephanie - (U.S.A.)

all I'm saying to people who are considering joining the Army National Guard because it's not active duty is, it is not part time, even if you are M-day (a part-timer), and I'm not even including mobilizations/deployments, which are inevitable for almost all units of course. The best thing to do if you want to go in to the ARNG is to do it full time as Active Guard Reserve.

I already donate my time by volunteering with some non-profit organizations for children.

I just thought people should know what they're getting in to before they sign some of their rights away for up to 8 years.
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#16 Consumer Suggestion

Her point is legitimate, although I don't necessarily agree with it

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

Stephanie:

I hear what you're saying, and feel your pain.

I served 4 years in the Active Army (1990-1994) 6 years in the National Guard (1994-2000) and since then have been in the Army Reserve (2000-Now). I have not deployed overseas in support of Desert Shield, Desert Storm, Iraqi Freedom, Enduring Freedom, etc. but if I got the call, I would go. Part of what I signed up for. Politically, I would be angry about it (I am about as far to the left as most Soldiers ever go), but that's another story entirely.

Anyway, this is my observation:

The higher in rank you go, the more that is expected of you. My commander says it well when he states before each and every promotion ceremony in our unit, "This is not a pay raise, it is an increase in responsibility that has an increase in salary that goes with it." When I took part in the USARC NCO of the Year competition in Oxford, AL last year (ironic), the CSM of the USARC told us essentially the same thing.

Fact of the matter is that the higher you go in rank, the less "nug" work you have to do, but the more work in leading Soldiers, establishing and directing policy, enforcing policy, etc. As an E-7, soon to be a Warrant Officer, I probably spend 2-3 (sometimes more) hours a week outside of regular drill (or battle assembly as they call it now) on the phone, typing up forms, running to the PX to pick things up for Soldiers, taking part in the dreaded BN Conference Call, etc. It goes with the territory.

In return, I typically am not involved in most of the hole digging, weapon cleaning, floor mopping, latrine scrubbing, etc. that I dreaded so much when I was lower enlisted.

I don't know about your command, but in mine, leadership conferences (although painful because they are so stupid most of the time) are paid either as extended AT, ADSW, or take place in lieu of drill weekends. So, you collect your regular salary, plus per diem and hotel reimbursement.

As my tastes are not all that grand, I usually make money on those deals. If you truly are forced to attend these on your own time without being on orders, you have a very legitimate IG complaint. I would pursue it. I mean, obviously you don't want to stay in, so ruffling a few feathers in your command probably won't hurt all that much.

Anyway, I am not going to attack you like most of the vultures on this system tend to do, but I will recommend that you consider resigning your commission and going into the IRR. You have more of a chance of being called back to head off to the sandbox, but at the same time, if you DON'T get called back, you'll be able to relax and not have to put up with the painful deatils of outside of drill work.

By the way, AAFES, in the Reserve Component, peacetime or wartime, it's the same. The types of things described by the OP are expected of most senior NCOs and Officers, at least in my experience. I can't tell you how many training meetings (unpaid, plus the 40 mile round trip commute from my home) that I have attended over the years, long before 9/11 and our current wartime footing.
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#17 Consumer Suggestion

Hmm, a lotta trashin goin on here

AUTHOR: Jim - (U.S.A.)

I may not be as lean or as mean, but I did my ten years as a Marine (Once a Marine . . .).

Regardless of what Aafees says, Stephanie has ever right to speak her mind - good, bad, or indifferent. After all, we all served our country just so she could speak her mind.

Better her to say something others find inappropriate than to not be able to say anything at all.

However, having said all that, I do agree that many in our armed forces are taken advantage of in the name of being patriotic. Even in the armed forces, you are not expected to work without compensation. However - all of us who have served knows that the compensation we earn or earned is not nearly enough for a 24 hour job.

Stephanie needs to also remember that her job, regardless of the written committments, is still a 24 hour job, 365 days every year of her contract. I do however, agree that anyone joining the military needs to make sure they fully understand what they are getting into and not just sign because of an emotional sale from some recruiter or retention officer.

I will always be faithful and willing to serve at my country's request - though I look more like Sergeant Snorkle now than Beetle Bailey - LOL.

There - I've said my 6 cents worth.
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#18 Consumer Suggestion

Hmm, a lotta trashin goin on here

AUTHOR: Jim - (U.S.A.)

I may not be as lean or as mean, but I did my ten years as a Marine (Once a Marine . . .).

Regardless of what Aafees says, Stephanie has ever right to speak her mind - good, bad, or indifferent. After all, we all served our country just so she could speak her mind.

Better her to say something others find inappropriate than to not be able to say anything at all.

However, having said all that, I do agree that many in our armed forces are taken advantage of in the name of being patriotic. Even in the armed forces, you are not expected to work without compensation. However - all of us who have served knows that the compensation we earn or earned is not nearly enough for a 24 hour job.

Stephanie needs to also remember that her job, regardless of the written committments, is still a 24 hour job, 365 days every year of her contract. I do however, agree that anyone joining the military needs to make sure they fully understand what they are getting into and not just sign because of an emotional sale from some recruiter or retention officer.

I will always be faithful and willing to serve at my country's request - though I look more like Sergeant Snorkle now than Beetle Bailey - LOL.

There - I've said my 6 cents worth.
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#19 Consumer Suggestion

Hmm, a lotta trashin goin on here

AUTHOR: Jim - (U.S.A.)

I may not be as lean or as mean, but I did my ten years as a Marine (Once a Marine . . .).

Regardless of what Aafees says, Stephanie has ever right to speak her mind - good, bad, or indifferent. After all, we all served our country just so she could speak her mind.

Better her to say something others find inappropriate than to not be able to say anything at all.

However, having said all that, I do agree that many in our armed forces are taken advantage of in the name of being patriotic. Even in the armed forces, you are not expected to work without compensation. However - all of us who have served knows that the compensation we earn or earned is not nearly enough for a 24 hour job.

Stephanie needs to also remember that her job, regardless of the written committments, is still a 24 hour job, 365 days every year of her contract. I do however, agree that anyone joining the military needs to make sure they fully understand what they are getting into and not just sign because of an emotional sale from some recruiter or retention officer.

I will always be faithful and willing to serve at my country's request - though I look more like Sergeant Snorkle now than Beetle Bailey - LOL.

There - I've said my 6 cents worth.
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#20 Consumer Suggestion

Hmm, a lotta trashin goin on here

AUTHOR: Jim - (U.S.A.)

I may not be as lean or as mean, but I did my ten years as a Marine (Once a Marine . . .).

Regardless of what Aafees says, Stephanie has ever right to speak her mind - good, bad, or indifferent. After all, we all served our country just so she could speak her mind.

Better her to say something others find inappropriate than to not be able to say anything at all.

However, having said all that, I do agree that many in our armed forces are taken advantage of in the name of being patriotic. Even in the armed forces, you are not expected to work without compensation. However - all of us who have served knows that the compensation we earn or earned is not nearly enough for a 24 hour job.

Stephanie needs to also remember that her job, regardless of the written committments, is still a 24 hour job, 365 days every year of her contract. I do however, agree that anyone joining the military needs to make sure they fully understand what they are getting into and not just sign because of an emotional sale from some recruiter or retention officer.

I will always be faithful and willing to serve at my country's request - though I look more like Sergeant Snorkle now than Beetle Bailey - LOL.

There - I've said my 6 cents worth.
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#21 Consumer Comment

That's Why It's Called A "Leadership" Position

AUTHOR: Cory - (U.S.A.)

You are to be commended for your service. With that said, that's why it's called a "leadership" position. Which you seem to be setting a poor example of. I guess your main complaint is about compensation or lack of, concerning work done during off duty hours. Kind of like the local police dept. wanting to be compensated for working out and cleaning their weapon, things not done during duty hours, but are required for the position. You said it yourself, "The higher the rank, the more that's expected of you". That's a given. If you don't understand that, you shouldn't be in the position. I use to hear that type of complaint from non-rates. Maybe that's really where you belong. In your subsequent post, you write that you weren't aware of what would be required of you, having to do all the non-compensated work. You also write you were given options. They "sugar-coated" it. I use to hear that from the privates, who use to complain that their recruiters didn't tell them "right" or give them the whole story. All I can say is, I would have expected an officer, of the US ARMY, to have been more aware of the situtation they were getting into, before signing anything. Thanks for bring this situation to light. It might keep someone who really doesn't belong in a position from taking up a slot from someone who does and belongs there. As for jane, your last name isn't by chance fonda is it? Semper Fi, God bless our trooops and those navy guys too.
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#22 Consumer Comment

I'm finished

AUTHOR: Stephanie - (U.S.A.)

trying to explain myself and am not going to continue to waste my "precious" time on people like "Aafes" and dignify his/her rebuttal with another response.

For Jane and others who read the post, I hope it will help you make an informed decision if you decide to join the military.
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#23 Consumer Comment

Served in OIF

AUTHOR: Aafes - (U.S.A.)

You served in OIF. I am proud of you for that. While there I am certain, you received support from rear based colleagues that were not deployed. The Regular Army does not directly provide support services for Guard/Reserve units, this support is provided by the Guard/Reserve.

What does this mean? Part time soldiers were answering phone calls/emails in regard to unit matters in direct or indirect support of YOU while you were in OIF. Perhaps they should have simply refused to answer the telephone or the emails, delaying whatever support you needed at the time.

The mere fact you were deployed and relied heavily on this support should encourage you to provide the same. You don't deserve the title of "Officer" and your posting here undermines the sacrifice many are making on the front lines.

Your "precious time" spent performing these functions cannot even BEGIN to compare to the enlisted Guardsman or Reservist, with a wife and children being forced to leave his/her job and sent downrange - losing vital income in the process. Enlisted soldiers are not well paid in any event - for a guardsman that may have a small business or is in a well paid job active duty income cannot even begin to compare. As an officer you compensation is far above what they are receiving.

Your "obligation" is for 8 years. Your choice to leave active duty and spend the remainder in the Guard/Reserve or IRR does not release you from expectations to perform the duties you are being tasked with.

I know many fully retired members with 30 years service that have been recalled to active duty because of OIF - enlisted and officer included. You should count yourself lucky you have not been recalled, but with the attitude you display as an officer. I am sure your superiors simply don't want the embarrassment of your whining, and the undermining of the morale of good soldiers on their conscience.

No, I am not a recruiter. I am a proud retired veteran who knows the value of supporting those who put their lives on the line. I know what it is like to take point or stand on the wall to protect the freedom of fellow citizens or those who are seeking the cause of freedom.

Like all veterans there are things I was told by recruiters and career counselors through my active duty years that were misleading. I am aware enough to know a sales pitch when I see it and didn't take these things to heart.

You "break even" for attending conferences. Simply appropriate. What do you expect, to make a PROFIT from going to a conference?

You, should simply be ashamed of yourself. Next, I expect you will be burning the flag.
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#24 Consumer Comment

Whatever, people.

AUTHOR: Stephanie - (U.S.A.)

I served overseas during OIF I when I was Regular Army, so the attempted our-country's-at-war guilt trip didn't work on me, "Aafes."

Some of you seem to be missing my point. I know there are thousands of service members in harm's way overseas. I respect that. I also haven't forgotten about the thousands of service members who have lost their lives during the United States' involvement in wars past and present.

So because I'm not a cheerleading recruiter for the Guard or the Army for that matter, I'm breaking my oath? No, I'm telling it like it is. I don't appreciate it when people sugar-coat the truth, so I'm trying to do people a favor. I have fufilled and exceeded my obligation to the Guard since I have been in it. I routinely bend over backwards for my company, battalion and brigade and I will continue to for the rest of my obligation. People can take it or leave it. And by the way, I'm a political conservative.

Also, I forgot to mention the Guard leadership conferences that are held a few times a year at mid-to-high price hotels. Part-time soldiers are not paid for attending these, but are reimbursed at a later date for those travel expenses, breaking even.

Disservice my ***. Some of you people must be recruiters.
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#25 Consumer Comment

I agree with Robert...

AUTHOR: C - (U.S.A.)

Sorry to offend you, Jane. When you join the military, you basically sign many of your rights away. It's a contract. Many people read it, many people sign it. And, it's legally binding. Having been in the service as an officer for 4 years, I'm sure Stephanie knew what she was in for.

By the way, we are actually in a war right now, so more might be required of all our military troops.

Served during the Gulf War, and very proud of it.
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#26 Consumer Comment

Unreasonable expectations

AUTHOR: Taker - (U.S.A.)

Did you make an informed decision? How long have you been in the Army? Were you unable to locate other personnel who were enrolled in the same option?

As an officer you have more responsibility than enlisted and NCO personnel. The fact that these calls make your life miserable is something that you're going to have to deal with until your commitment is up. You could try speaking with your CO or XO, but remember that they can hold this against you.

I can understand that you're upset if the Army didn't explicitly tell you what's expected of you, but you should have checked around with other officers before you made your decision.

Your statement: It was just supposed to be one weekend a month and 15 additional days throughout the year, is the major assumption that all NG have made. Especially when called up to Iraq/Afghanistan/US-Mexico border.
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#27 Consumer Comment

A discredit to the U.S Military

AUTHOR: Aafes - (U.S.A.)

The OP is a discredit to the U.S. Military. In a time without conflict, it may be appropriate for you to expect only the "one weekend, two week" obligation to hold true. It is not, a time of peace. Our country is involved in a foreign conflict, many of our guardsmen and reservists have left full time jobs to find themselves on the front lines for extended periods of time.

This depletes the normal function of the Guard and reserves and those who have been lucky enough not to be sent to Iraq or other areas simply have to pick up the slack. To expect less is simply not reasonable.

Anything you are doing with your "enormous" time committment answering the telephone and emails is in support of those placing their lives in danger - whether indirectly or directly it is support.

Supporting our troops, your fellow Guardsmen and soldiers should be something you are not only proud of, but many would be willing to do without pay.

What is really a discredit is you ARE a commissioned officer. You are required and fully expected to be a leader and to set an example. Your posting that you feel ripped off and that these tasks are not fair is a far cry from leadership. You set a poor example for your subordinates and don't deserve the title of "officer".

You took an oath:

"I, (your name), do solemnly swear (or affirm)that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

You are given the responsibility to deal with these matters by telephone or email the officer's appointed over you.

If you are so bitter about the "extra" work without pay you should simply resign your commission. Tell them in your resignation that phone calls and emails are too stressful and time consuming for you and they don't pay you to deal with them when you are not drilling.

Oh, and PLEASE write your congressman as the other poster recommended. He will LOVE to hear this whining from an officer.
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#28 Consumer Comment

Robert please read BEFORE you reply

AUTHOR: Jane - (U.S.A.)

Robert, did you even READ what the orginial poster wrote? He/She is in the NATIONAL GUARD!
How did you take from what she wrote that she did not have 'the stomach' for it. SHE WAS AN OFFICER FOR FOUR YEARS! If she did not have the stomach for it she would have gotten out long before NOW! She agreed to do the ONE weekend a month and TWO weeks per year. I would like to see them assign her to the base FOR NOT ANSWERING HER PHONE! Please!
BET her Congressman would be interested to know ALL ABOUT THAT!
YOu intimated that the original poster should get out of the service and let the real military (you?) do the job....would you still feel that way if you were not paid? I doubt it yet you ask her to do that same thing (not get paid) to work (conference calls etc on her off time)
I for one and glad that she took the time to speak up and explain to EVERYONE exactly what the guard entails. Robert, reply after you have DONATED your time to work without pay!
Way to go original poster
Thanks for the insight!
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#29 Consumer Comment

Wonderful, Jane

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

Except, it doesn't work that way. If "they" call, you have to answer it. If you don't, you will get the priviledge of staying on base.

People who have no stomach for the military, should stay out of it.

They should also try not to get in the way of the rest of us, who do love it.
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#30 Consumer Comment

Thanks for the warning

AUTHOR: Jane - (U.S.A.)

I really appreciate you taking the time to write.
Will all of the new comercials and so many people being enlisting...it is nice that someone has the guts to tell the other side of the story.

Just curious, what would happen if you told the guard that you were working when one of the conference calls came thru! I can't see what they could do to you if you just dont answer your phone. Some of the older Sgt majors and the like really do eat sleep and dream about the guard! I am happy to see that you are not one of those people. Please do not let this situation or the people at the guard take over your free time too! If you dont already have it, get caller ID! When they call your house, let the calls go into voice mail...if they say it is an emergency and you need to call us back as soon as you get this, set your alarm clock for three thirty or so and call them back then (pretending that you just returned). I bet that they will get the message shortly after two or three of THOSE phone calls. I wish you the best and hope that this will serve as a warning to the other potential enlistees....
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