- Report: #109132
Report - Rebuttal - Arbitrate
Complaint Review: Auctions For Income Success Team - The Summit Group - PMI/NMR Coaching - Internet Development
Auctions For Income Success Team - The Summit Group - PMI/NMR Coaching - Internet Development947 South 500 East Suite 110 & 629 E 700 S Suite 103 American Fork, Utah U.S.A.
Auctions For Income Success Team - The Summit Group, PMI/NMR Coaching - Internet Development - The Tax Club - Links 4 Trade - Quicksite Builder misrepresentation of product & services, ripoff strong arm tactics, abusive, FULL REFUND Received American Fork Utah
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Re: Auctions for Income Success Team (The Summit Group) Please read the two emails sent to IDI & The Summit Group which resulted in a full refund (7500.00).
Purchased their program 7/24/04, cancelled 8/10/04, IDI called on 9/1/04, I prepared this email for Summit but sent to IDI on 9/1/04, Summit called on 9/2/04 and sent them a copy.
I am writing about the purchase of products/services from your sales dept./company. I saw the AFI advertisement on TV and purchased, as my primary goal was to have an EBay business. While AFI promoted PMI/NMR I did not call them, they (Auctions for Income Success Team) called us. We spent several hours on the phone with Eric & Augie as they were qualifying us for your special offer. Augie asked how much would we invest into a business? Responded, maybe 5000; he asked me to write down 7500.00. I kept very good notes from the day of sale, so I have detailed information. To keep this short, basically, Augie told me that
If I bought your 7500.00 program:
We were promised:
1. software and information via email and standard mail
2. 895.00 (tax education, 4-30 min consults) & (software - keeps track to help you make most of avail. tax deductions), business papers filed + tax hotline
3. 995.00 website up & running (IDI builds web site, e-commerce ready, autoresponder etc.), (he mentioned Tupperware & Shasta as customer sites as well as a lady who decorated tumbleweeds and is making a killing).
4. 495.00 Auction software does deep analysis of EBay
5. 605.00 Autoresponder for website
6. 1495.00 marketing package for website
7. 2995.00 training (10, hr personal coaching on phone: online, tele-classes to get ROI in 30 to 90 days, reactive coaching, & hotline.
8. MOST IMPORTANTLY, no hidden or undisclosed costs.
I would have a website up & running in 30 days, my challenge would be to choose product and add product to the website.
We were very up front & honest, we told Augie we do not have any more money, the program must pay for itself along with the hosting fee, he insisted ROI is 30 to 90 days and told us there were NO undisclosed or hidden costs.
Augie had us go to UT BBB and check IDI, which had a satisfactory rating. (He failed to have us check on your consulting/sales and other affiliates. We questioned the 3 day cancellation: we asked about the details of this clause & Augie said, If you use a credit card you are protected based on satisfaction guarantee, if not satisfied, cancel. IDI will not jeopardize their reputation with BBB for 7500.00".
Based on Augie's representations and our ability to cancel upon review of your products/service, I agreed.
1) I did not receive any information on what I was to receive via email or standard mail: Book titles, Software titles, etc.
I received one start up email, but did not view the online site until 8-09-04
7 - 12 days later I received two software CD's and 3 certificates,
I found that the product/services were not as represented.
2) Tax software - informational only, it can't track any thing; but promoted calling The Tax Club.
I didn't call them, they called me. Kale offered club membership at huge one time fee + monthly fee when I had already purchased their services via your program. Coach Steve & Tax advisor Robert did not seem to know what I had purchased. Robert tried to make it sound that a NE S-corp would be more beneficial than a NC S-corp, I checked his information with several NC accountants and his information was false.
3)Sales offered Tupperware, Shasta and a lady that decorated tumbleweeds as IDI site customers. I believed I would be getting website built by IDI / same software as these companies not so - your sales group was very deceptive by offering these company names to induce us to purchase your program. In truth these companies didn't use the online software that came to me. Quicksite software is bare bones template. I didn't know they were selling me online software and training to be a web page designer and encourage me to build sites for others, providing your company with more hosting income. If I wanted to design my own web page I could do it for a lot less money by digging out my husbands e-commerce software he used for the family cabin OR using a competitor that will design a lot of pages for under 500.00 & hosting: 6.95 per mo + free maintenance.
In process of doing the Online tutorial, disclosed (7.95) monthly fee for using your warehouse without any further description of what is carried in the warehouse or how much products cost & online Information disclosed the need to purchase drop shippers list for (69.95). In the process of performing the tutorial, there were instructions to print out the hosting agreement forms, sign them, provide credit card info etc. I did not fill out and sign the hosting agreement and I will not. I received a call from Sara Scott informing me the 29.95 would start on 9-1-04. I called and left a message for her 8-12-04 that I would not be filling out this agreement and sending it in. You are not authorized to charge my credit card 29.95/mo.
4)Auction software: actually saw two potential benefits, rest was similar or same as what you can do on EBay for free.
5 & 6) Autoresponder & Marketing certificates (Links 4 Trade, timeframe of service was not disclosed at time of sale) disclosed hidden monthly fee for service beyond 6 months, told 2000 hits per month, certificate says 2000 hits over 6 month period. I've since read an article, Search Engine Scams to find that there is no way you can control this.
7) Training: Tele-class, dial a (507) area code (not a toll free number, was not disclosed at time of sale) call week days at a specified time and listen to someone live for 30 minutes (25 daily lessons that repeat). Most Info you can find on the net for FREE. Sales told me ROI IS 30-90 days, coach told me they have successes and failures, and there are no guarantees. Training has very little to do with EBay and a whole lot to do with designing a web site and making sites for others.
8) Based on your sales team qualifying structure, we qualified and they felt they could make us their offer: Purchase your program and be a member of the success team so we could be on one of their new infomercials. We asked directly: What are the hidden costs, costs of program not being disclosed today. Answer: "There are no hidden costs". Absolutely no information is provided on renewal costs, maintenance costs, what programs or services need to be renewed and how much for each to do business with you or through your program. All this information should be provided to your clients PRIOR to finalizing a sale.
Too much discrepancy & misrepresentation, Too much money needed per month, it left me overwhelmed and in tears. I put program on hold 8-10-04.
Augie called on 8-11-04 to find out why I put program on hold, I explained everything that happened with tax club and tax advisor.
He offered a refund of 895.00. I told him I put a call into my attorney's office and as of today, I wanted out of your program. Once again Augie stated that IDI will not jeopardize their BBB rating for 7500.00
8-17-04 I emailed Augie to recap what we discussed on 8-11-04, I want a full & complete refund.
After one week of no word from anyone, I called and left messages for: Eric, K.Moody & Augie.
Eric responded. I asked who are they and how are they connected to AFI / IDI. Who could make the refund? Eric said he would have Jim Cochran call.
Jim returned my call and I spent nearly an hour with him on the phone, he offered 2000.00 refund & be personally responsible for whatever was misquoted, would work with me for as long as it takes until I am successful etc. etc. I told him trust is broken, providing financial expenses on what your company seems to practice of only disclosing those cost as one works through your program is unacceptable.
When I wasn't thrilled about the offer he attacked me. He made clear to me: the customer will never be right. I told him the tax consultant lied to me, he argued, defending the tax club, he uses them personally and would stand by what they said over any NC accountant. (Then as I stated in the sales call, I don't have any more money, therefore if the tax consultant was right, then I can't afford to be in business.
At time of sale, someone should have said: you need working capital and if you don't have any, you would not be a good candidate for our program.) (They / sales team, failed to disclose the day of sale - provide a list - of all costs & expenses to do business through your program, including monthly fee, renewal monthly & yearly fees, whereby my husband & I could make an informed decision, PRIOR to finalizing the sale.) Jim & I had been on the phone for nearly an hour or maybe more. I felt flushed so I knew my blood pressure and stress level was not good.
The phone conversation had to end: I told him to put his offer in writing, provide detail; I would review with my husband and get back to him. As of 8-31-04 I have not received anything in writing, just a message from Eric saying Jimmy asked him to call me and give me information on Tax club. No thank you.
All negotiated offers to date are UNACCEPTABLE. I am not interested in any further negotiation as the purchase was made based on Augie's' misrepresentation of product/services. I will not tolerate any further abuse & pressure to remain in your program by Jim or anyone else.
I believe that your company made substantial, material and deceptive misrepresentations regarding your products/services. Had I known the truth, I would never have bought your product/services. Per my attorney's office, your company conduct appears to constitute an unfair or deceptive trade practice.
Your company has a no-refund policy. However, in light of the fraudulent and deceptive statements made by your company to induce us to purchase, I am asking that you reconsider your position and issue a full refund of 7500.00. Upon receipt of the refund I will promptly return the 2 software CD's and 3 unused certificates to your company; please provide name & address for product/certificate return.
Jen called on 7-30-04 and left a message to call on refund.
I returned her call on 9-1-04 and offered to send this email detailing my experience.
It is Wednesday 9-1-04: 6:19 p.m. Eastern Time, please let me know of your refund decision
by Thursday 9-2-04: 5 p.m. Eastern Time.
You may contact me via email
Thank you in advance for your prompt response.
2nd email due to no response, sent to IDI & The Summit Group
Jennifer Redford, IDI support
Colton Moody, CEO, Summit Consulting
Stephanie & Meagan , Customer Service
Jim Cochran, Sales Manager
Augie Bove, Sales
Eric Largin, K. Moody, qualifiers ?
I have sent emails to:
Jennifer at IDI on 9-1-04
Eric Largin at Summit Consulting on 9-2-04
Augie, you said we were protected by our credit card company based on a satisfaction guarantee, if not satisfied, cancel. The first and last time we talked you said: IDI will not jeopardize their reputation with the BBB for 7500.00.
I am demanding a full and complete refund.
If no response is received by Monday noon, Eastern time, I understand it is my consumer right to file complaints with all state and federal regulatory and/or law enforcement agencies.
Complaint will include all companies associated with AFI: (to include but not limited to)
Success Team (The Summit Group), PMI, NMR, The Tax Club and IDI, photos of product, company logos, all names (CEO's', presidents, sales, etc.) addresses, phone numbers, reports, etc., etc., etc.
I attached a word document with photos.
Mark replied, asking to extend deadline to Tuesday as Monday was Labor Day Holiday. This was acceptable. I called Jen at noon on Tuesday, she informed me they would make a complete 100% refund right now. They did, it took several days to post to my credit card.
I received a letter from The Summit Group dated 9-8-04:
They wanted me to sign a form that says: I also acknowledge that Summit, its associates and assigns have handled this matter to my complete satisfaction. I hereby release Summit, its associates and assigns, from any further responsibility or liability relating to the purchase etc. The fact that they are attempting to withhold my money, make me sign this in order to receive my refund = the final straw and why I am filing this report, even though IDI did refund 100%. "The Summit Group" must be held responsible for their bad business tactics.
Additional detailed information on the tax club/consultant.
2) Tax software 895.00 (Tax Vantage 4.0) - informational only, it can't track any thing; it did promote calling The Tax Club. There is another one you won't have to call, they will call you. Made an offer of service at large expense for club membership regardless of my already paid 895.00 for most of what he said they would do. Tax sales push S-Corp set up because it would open over 300 tax deductions where sole proprietor is double taxation and about 27 tax deductions.
Asked tax consultant about deductions, I gave some examples; he told me most would not be available to me because it is an internet business. Tax consultant provided incorrect information to make it sound like an S-corp set up in Nevada would be more cost effective than one set up in North Carolina.
Option 1) He could set up S Corp, get all papers filed etc, but I would have to pay 125.00 filing fee which must be renewed every year. (It doesn't come out of the 895.00, day of sale I was told filing fee would be around 25.00) He said I need to pay NC 250.00 - 300.00 minimum privilege tax and a 150.00 business tax, every year even if I don't make any money, it would be more based on income. None of these taxes paid to NC would be tax deductible. If this is true then based on telling them I don't have any more money, then I can't afford to be in business right now. Called NC accountants, said 125.00 filing fee, 25.00 renewal fee (not another 125.00), a 35.00 minimum franchise tax based on assets/inventory and 20.00 for state letter.
Option 2) He could set up S Corp in NEVADA for a one time fee of 760.00 and NE does not require a renewal. Then I would have to pay 89.95 per month for first year and then 49.95 per month for every month thereafter that I remain in business. These fees are for a person in an office in Nevada to file for Tax ID#, all S Corp papers with the IRS and keep my corporation in good standing. All these fees would be tax deductible to me. He added: If I'm based in NE and someone wanted to sue me it makes it hard for them to find me, can't sue someone if you can't find them, right? Which would I be leaning toward doing? (My personal comfort level is NC, all this is news to me) Then he offered a 69.95 for the 1st year. I did nothing, told him I needed to talk to my coach & husband.
Does everyone get ripped off? I don't know. To protect yourself and your hard earned income get all business names, addresses, phone numbers, company management names, then take the time and do some research. If a company is reputable, they will be there when you are ready to move forward, they won't pressure you into anything.
Advice to self: Never, never, never purchase anything unseen, or from companies that put in non-refund clauses to trap consumers.
That is what it is - A TRAP. Do NOT accept solicitation by phone.
If you are attempting to get a refund, I hope this information helps you.
Greensboro, North Carolina
STOP! ..before you think about using the Better Business Bureau (BBB)... CLICK HERE to see how other consumers were victimized by the BBB's false or misleading information. Don't be fooled! It has been reported, when there are thousands of complaints and other investigations underway by authorities, the BBB has no choice but to finally give an UNsatisfactory rating to a BBB member business that is paying the BBB big membership fees every year. When a business is reported that is NOT a BBB member, BBB files WILL more likely show an UNsatisfactory rating, then reportedly shake down that company to become a member of the BBB. One positive thing about the BBB is, either way, if a business has an unsatisfactory rating with the BBB, you can be sure, the business is bad. But what about all those BBB member businesses that had complaints filed against them? Consumers never get to hear about them. What about the BBB advertising to the public? Is this a false and misleading perception they are giving about consumer confidence when dealing with a business? Click here to understand more of what consumers and business alike are saying about the BBB. You decide. ..Remember. The BBB membership is not earned, it's paid for!
Click here to read other Rip Off Reports on Summit Group Publications
This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 09/19/2004 03:57 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Auctions-For-Income-Success-Team-The-Summit-Group-PMINMR-Coaching-Internet-Development/American-Fork-Utah-84003/Auctions-For-Income-Success-Team-The-Summit-Group-PMINMR-Coaching-Internet-Developme-109132. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.
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