• Report: #363566

Complaint Review: BRYAN TIMMERMAN, DARRYL SCOTT, BOB MESSNER, GHM COMMERCIAL LOANS, GHM HOME LOANS, Unsure Of CGI

  • Submitted: Sat, August 16, 2008
  • Updated: Wed, September 10, 2008

  • Reported By:Cary North Carolina
BRYAN TIMMERMAN, DARRYL SCOTT, BOB MESSNER, GHM COMMERCIAL LOANS, GHM HOME LOANS, Unsure Of CGI
6300 E. Thomas Rd. #200 Scottsdale, Arizona U.S.A.
  • Phone: 623-866-3413
  • Web:
  • Category: Loans

BRYAN TIMMERMAN, DARRYL SCOTT, BOB MESSNER, GHM COMMERCIAL LOANS, GHM HOME LOANS, Unsure Of CGI They fail to honor return of initial deposits of $10,000 and appraisal funds that were never performed. Scottsdale Arizona

*Author of original report: Commercial Grade Investments, GHM Commercial Loans...Bryan Timmerman and etc.

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Torryhe continues to just talk in circles and reaffirms WHY every Lender that has ever worked on their loan file over the years has DECLINED them!

*Author of original report: Bryan Timmerman, Bob Messner, GHMCOMMERCIALLOANS.COM, CGICOMMERCIALLOANS.COM

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Final Response from the Company

*Author of original report: Bob Messner, Bryan Timmerman, GHM Commercial Loans...& someone in CGI

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Posting is very Inaccurrate of Highly Documented Loan File

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We were contacted by GHM Commercial in July of 2007. They portrayed themselves as a lender. In our initial conversation, they said that they could close this deal within 30 days, and under the specific terms expressed in their Conditional Loan Commitment Contract. We wired the retainer fee of $10,000.00, which have a receipt, $4,750.00 for an appraisal, and another 2,750.00 for a second land appraisal. After several months, of sending information we discovered that they were in fact not a lender but they had a reputable lender ready to close in December.

After months of being promised that "we will close soon". After 1/15/08, and we had been lead to believe that we were closing soon for 6 months on 1/25/08 we mailed a termination letter requesting the 12,750.00 to be refunded us. This letter was mailed to the original provided address (3770 N. 7th street Suite A Phoenix, AZ 85014). We also emailed a copy of the letter on 1/28/08 to Bob Messner, bob@ghmcommercialloans.com, and Darryl Scott, darryl@ghmcommercialloans.com, The letter came back as the undeliverable.

I went online and procured their information through the Arizona Secretary of State,and re-mailed the termination letter and the request for reimbursement to us. The only response that we received was a phone call from Bryan Timmerman in saying, "he will not return the money, because our head is not in the right place." No one from our company has heard from anyone from GHM Commercialloans.com since this conversation. My attorney is on the case as is the Attorney General's office in North Carolina, and Arizona. They have been unable to be contacted and I fear that justice may not be able to be served. I have seen the rebuttal from the guys from CGI commercial Loans, but I would like to hear from Don to prove that he is satisfied.

Torryhe
Cary, North Carolina
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 08/16/2008 09:33 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/BRYAN-TIMMERMAN-DARRYL-SCOTT-BOB-MESSNER-GHM-COMMERCIAL-LOANS-GHM-HOME-LOANS-Unsure-Of-CGI/Scottsdale-Arizona-85251/BRYAN-TIMMERMAN-DARRYL-SCOTT-BOB-MESSNER-GHM-COMMERCIAL-LOANS-GHM-HOME-LOANS-Unsure-O-363566. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

Ripoff Report has an exclusive license to this report. It may not be copied without the written permission of Ripoff Report.

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0Author 3Consumer 3Employee/Owner
Updates & Rebuttals

#1 Author of original report

Commercial Grade Investments, GHM Commercial Loans...Bryan Timmerman and etc.

AUTHOR: Torryhe - (U.S.A.)

I apologize for being so busy not to reply to your response. Commercial Grade Investments is not in good standing with the state of Arizona. This is also how GHM Commercial loans disbanded and (CGI ) begun. I wonder what happened?
You admitted to keeping the 2750.00$ in your last response and that was something that was performed out of contract as your personal decision. What is next would you admit to giving our file to some other company to submit? Could it be that I have seen your packet and that I have it on file as to the pitiful condition it was in? Your services were not worth $10,000 nor $5. Well I am tired of playing games with you Bryan. Virtually the same principles are apart of CGI as GHM and I will continue this until our money comes back.

As of August 11, 2008 your company has a complaint filed against them. With the Arizona Attorney Generals Office.
The account # is CIC 08-13175 GHMCOMMERCIALLOANS.COM.


The # is 1-602-542-5763

The fax # is 1-602-542-4579


Good talking to you sir and I would appreciate if you would keep your word as you have not before.

P.S. If the nature of the leases were your concern all you had to do was look at the OP agreement.
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#2 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Torryhe continues to just talk in circles and reaffirms WHY every Lender that has ever worked on their loan file over the years has DECLINED them!

AUTHOR: Partners - CGi Commercial Loans - (U.S.A.)

I want some questions answered?

Answer: SURE

1. In none of the corespondence that we have had on this website have you addressed the second appraisal fee of $2750.00 that was never returned and never performed?

Answer: YOU SUBMITTED FALSE LEGAL DOCUMENTATION

2. Which of the four doctor/ principals did you contact?
1 is now my wife
2 is my godfather
3 I work for part-time
4 is my father

Answer: WE CONTACTED THE LEASEE'S. AND NOW YOU SAY THERE ARE 4 DOCTOR/ PRINCIPALS? ONCE AGAIN SOLID VALID PROOF THAT AT LEAST 4 TENANTS ARE DIRECTLY RELATED TO YOU. THAT IS 4 OUT OF OVER 20 LEASES IN A 3 STORY SPECIAL USE BUILDING.

3. Why is this the first time I am hearing about these 'problems in our loan package'?

Answer: ARE YOU KIDDING? YOU WERE INFORMED OF EVERY INVESTOR'S PROBLEMS WITH YOUR DOCUMENTATION SUBMITTED FOR MONTHS. MAYBE YOU SHOULD MENTION THE COMMERCIAL LOAN BROKER THAT YOU HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH FOR 4 YEARS PRIOR TO OUR FIRM...AND APPARANTLY STILL WORKING WITH TO THIS DAY...THAT HAS YET TO FUND YOUR DEAL?

Did we hire you or did the banks whom do you work for?

Answer: NO. YOU EXECUTED A CLEARLY OUTLINED FEE TO UNDERWRITE YOUR LOAN REQUEST AND DETERMINE YOUR LEGAL ELIGIBILITY FOR A CONSTRUCTION LOAN. YOUR ACTIONS DECLINED YOUR LOAN REQUEST. PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

We hired you specifically to perform a function, and as our fiduciary in this matter if you saw a flaw I would think you would have had the where with all to do so. Unfortunately, this is not true in your case because if my father signed all of the pre-leases under his name. How did you allegedly get the names and numbers for these other doctors? (Again get your story straight you may need it in the future)

Answer: TORRYHE...I AM ASSUMING THAT YOU HAVE FORGOTTON THAT YOU SENT IN THE FIRST SET OF "LEASES" EXECUTED BY YOUR FATHER...LITERALLY EVERY ONE OF THEM...AND WE IMMEDIATLY CALLED YOU FOR A CLEAR EXPLAINATION...AND YOU HAD NONE...WHICH WE THEN CLEARLY TOLD YOU THIS WAS NOT ACCEPTABLE...WHICH IS WHEN YOU TOOK 4 TO 5 MORE WEEKS AND RESENT ALL NEW "LEASES" SIGNED BY DOCTORS AND/OR GROUPS OF DOCTORS...YET YOU WERE STILL LISTED AS "PARTNERS" ON ALL THE LEASES BECAUSE IT WAS NOW GOING TO BE A CO-OP MEDICAL PLAZA?

4. Why is it that other brokers that deal with you are saying that you do misrepresent yourself as a lender, and that there is another person out there that you did worse than us?

Answer: WE WERE LENDERS WITH OUR DIRECT BANKS AND WE DECLINED YOU AFTER THE "LEASE" FIASCO. THAT IS WHEN WE KEPT WORKING WITH YOU AND SUBMITTED TO NUMEROUS OTHER BANKS THAT DID HAVE AN INTEREST IN YOUR PROJECT...AND YOUR CONTINUED ABILITY TO NOT PERFORM AS THE DEVELOPER BROUGHT ON NUMEROUS DECLINATIONS FROM THOSE BANKS. IT IS NOT US, NOR THE COMMERCIAL FINANCE WORLD...IT IS YOUR QUALIFICATIONS AS A POTENTIAL OWNER OF A $11,000,000 COMMERCIAL DEBT THAT WAS HIGHLY QUESTIONABLE.

They say it is around Thanksgiving of 2007 that this happened. I want to hear that person's story. I bet the rest of the World will want to hear that story.

Answer: THAT WAS A MIS-COMMUNICATION BETWEEN A BORROWER AND A FORMER PARTNER WHO HANDLED THE LOAN FILE. IT WAS PROMPTLY RESOLVED AND THE BORROWER IS HAPPY. AND AS AN ADDED NOTE, HE WAS VERY HAPPY WITH HIS FULLY APPROVED AND FUNDED LOAN 12 MONTHS AGO. HIS ONLY ISSUE WAS THE RETURN OF HIS DEPOSIT UPON THE FUNDING OF HIS LOAN. HE IS A GOOD PERSON AND WE WROTE THE RETURN OF HIS UNDERWRITING FEE INTO HIS AGREEMENT.

5. You will not answer my phone calls, emails, letters or anybody from our group, but you will not speak to the Arizona Attorney General's office?

Answer: WE HAVE HAD NUMEROUS PHONE CALLS WITH YOU TORRYHE OVER THE LAST YEAR AND YOU LITERALLY LIE ABOUT WHAT YOU SAY YOU WILL PROVIDE AS PROOF THAT THE "LEASES" ARE LEGITIMATE...AND WE WOULD CERTAINLY ENJOY SPEAKING WITH ANY REGULATORY AGENCY YOU WOULD LIKE US TO TALK TO...AS THIS IS A CLOSED FILE WITH LITERALLY EVERY BANK THAT YOU HAVE SUBMITTED TO OVER THE YEARS BASED ON THE EXACT SAME UNDERWRITING RESULTS.

JUST BECAUSE YOU EXECUTE A CLEARLY DEFINED UNDERWRITING FEE AGREEMENT DOES NOT MEAN YOU HAVE "BOUGHT" A LOAN APPROVAL. THAT IS A SIMPLE DEVELOPER 101 CLASS AND EVERY LENDER INVOLVED IN YOUR LOAN FILE AGREES.

AND YES THIS WILL BE OUR LAST RESPONSE. THANK YOU.
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#3 Author of original report

Bryan Timmerman, Bob Messner, GHMCOMMERCIALLOANS.COM, CGICOMMERCIALLOANS.COM

AUTHOR: Torryhe - (U.S.A.)

I want some questions answered?
1. In none of the corespondence that we have had on this website have you addressed the second appraisal fee of $2750.00 that was never returned and never performed?

2. Which of the four doctor/ principals did you contact?
1 is now my wife
2 is my godfather
3 I work for part-time
4 is my father

3. Why is this the first time I am hearing about these "problems in our loan package"? Did we hire you or did the banks whom do you work for? We hired you specifically to perform a function, and as our fiduciary in this matter if you saw a flaw I would think you would have had the where with all to do so. Unfortunately, this is not true in your case because if my father signed all of the pre-leases under his name. How did you allegedly get the names and numbers for these other doctors? (Again get your story straight you may need it in the future)

4. Why is it that other brokers that deal with you are saying that you do misrepresent yourself as a lender, and that there is another person out there that you did worse than us? They say it is around Thanksgiving of 2007 that this happened. I want to hear that person's story. I bet the rest of the World will want to hear that story.

5. You will not answer my phone calls, emails, letters or anybody from our group, but you will not speak to the Arizona Attorney General's office?

I want to thank Don from Georgia for pointing out the connection between the two companies, and who are the principals of each company. The seperaton of GHMCommercialloans.com GHM Commercial loans, Commercial Grade Investments or CGI commercial loans.com and the various LLC's that control them are not different. If you don't believe me look at the website which is virtually the same; the only true difference being the color scheme.
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#4 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Final Response from the Company

AUTHOR: Partners - CGi Commercial Loans - (U.S.A.)

The purpose for a forum, such as RipOff Report, is to allow the opportunity for consumers to complain about companies and or individuals. But it also allows for the parties being accused the opportunity to present the facts and/or come to an amicable resolution. The customer is NOT always right and we appreciate the opportunity to present the facts in this complaint against our company.

As already stated above, the company stands behind its loan underwriting, this by the way involved a number of National Banking institutions. Torryhe continues to completely not grasp, nor have an understanding of his and his Fathers own loan file. When the legal Underwriting Fee Agreement was executed and numerous conference calls were held for their benefit, it was clearly presented as an Income Investment new construction project with pre-leases executed by medical professionals wanting to move from their current locations into a newer facility. As one of the companies underwriting the loan request our task is to be subjective and non-biased. Any client that is representing themselves as capable commercial real estate investors bear the burden of presenting factual information on their project. We are only here to underwrite the loan request and to determine what is true...or not true...that includes underwriters, appraisers and numerous other 3rd party agencies involved in commercial lending.

After a number of delays by the clients to provide legally executed leases, we received leases that were in fact executed by the clients as "Partners" in each and every lease. They clearly explained to all underwriting parties that they were now going to create a Medical Co-Op Building and saw no reason why that would make a difference in the loan request. THIS IS A CRITICAL DIFFERENCE THAT TORRYHE AND HIS FATHER DO NOT UNDERSTAND.

The underwriting guidelines for an Owner Occupied property are VASTLY different than the Income Investment Property they had requested. So that the "Medical Professional" that was to occupy the space was also a "Partner" with Torreyhe and his Father. In fact each lease was executed by the client and not the "Medical Professional" occupying the space. A number of these "Medical Professionals" were contacted by us during the underwriting of the file and many were just interested in a possible space, but certainly not anywhere near signing a legal lease agreement. Keep in mind this was a SPECIAL USE Medical Facility occupying 3 full stories.

As a note, this file has been underwritten and reviewed by NUMEROUS Banking Institutions with the exact same results.

Once again we stand firmly behind the Underwriting Fee Agreement executed by the clients. It is exactly for these types of Borrowers that ALL reputable commercial lenders require NON-REFUNDABLE Underwriting Fee Agreements. There is considerable time involved in underwriting commercial loan files and the one thing that any lender cannot control is the intentions of a potential Borrower.

As any lender will clearly explain to all potential Borrowers, the purpose of underwriting is to fund a commercial loan based on legal documentation, as required by law...and if you are not able to provide LEGAL documentation in support of your loan request...do not pursue, nor apply for a commercial loan.

This is not an emotional decision. It is a decision based on a clearly executed legal Underwriting Fee Agreement. The client has submitted their loan request for many years to various Commercial Lenders with the exact same results. This will be our last response to this matter.
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#5 Author of original report

Bob Messner, Bryan Timmerman, GHM Commercial Loans...& someone in CGI

AUTHOR: Torryhe - (U.S.A.)

Your comments are a great work of fiction. It seems as if you are deflecting all of the blame from yourselves, is it because you consider yourself financially bigger than you are? Could it be that you have a habit of misrepresenting yourselves as a final big money lender? I have 3 people that will testify to that fact. Apparently you guys were known in your own Mortgage Broker community as less than honest, as shade tree, as liars. This required much research but I have received the packet that you were sending out in our behalf, and I wonder would that be considered willful or negligent misrepresentation? Because that was the worst packet I have ever seen. How do you have a 66% + owner occupied building and submit it as an investment property? As for the 50% LTV offer that we had would not even pay for the bricks and mortar on our building. You found that out through me therefore that means that you are still receiving emails from your GHMcommercialloans.com address. Not only do we want our $10,000 initial deposit back for you all failing to secure a loan, but because of your less than competent handling of our file and your SCANDALOUS behavior since your company's mysterious disappearance in January of 08'. Bottom Line is this we want our money back. If you do not adhere to what we are asking this process continues. I have the proof to back these things up; you do not you are making emotional conjecture that you can not support.
**Clarification** We are 80% + leased you received it in the manner that you wanted with the doctor's signed on the dotted line and I have documentation to prove it. I also have documentation that you received both wires and that you will not return even the $2750.00 for the second appraisal, but I did not noticed in your comments any mention of that. We never contacted you through your website I was introduced to you and your company by another Broker. (Tighten up your story you may need to have your facts straight in the near future.)
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#6 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Posting is very Inaccurrate of Highly Documented Loan File

AUTHOR: Partners - CGi Commercial Loans - (U.S.A.)

The person posting this highly inaccurate portrayal, of the fully underwritten loan file, has submitted false information. This will be a very short and factual account of the fraudulent loan file submitted by these parties. Full documentation is available to substantiate our strong legal stance with this former client.

I can only speak for myself as one of 4 former partners of the now closed company GHMCommercialLoans.com. The poster (Torryhe) and his Father had contacted us through our web site for a legitimate new construction loan...for a supposedly fully leased medical plaza they wanted to build on land they had in Cary, NC. After numerous pre-qualifying conference calls with both individuals the company issued a standard Underwriting Fee Agreement to underwrite an $11 Million LTC construction loan based on the financials, Pro formas and a detailed list of requested legal documents submitted by the clients. Their agreement CLEARLY states, in plain layman's English, that this particular agreement was for a $10,000 non-refundable underwriting deposit for the express purpose of underwriting a loan based on their submitted documentation.

Everything was fine up until the point that legal, valid documentation was required for final approvals, yet the documentation submitted began to clearly not be accurate or correct. The "Leases" that had supposedly been procured by all the tenants, which were to occupy the property upon completion, were fraudulent. Each one had been signed by the Borrowers as the "Partner" Tenants with each space. They did NOT have anywhere near the required 80% pre-leased spaces as clearly required by standard Bank underwriting guidelines.

In fact they had literally just made up the leases, signed themselves has the Tenants because they wanted to create the first "Co-Op" Medical Plaza in North Carolina and they would be the primary tenant partners for literally every space with Doctors that would share the entire 3 story building with their company. Keep in mind this was a $11 Million NEW Construction building with 3 floors of special use Medical Offices. This was just one of many, many glaring inconsistencies with the documents, which are required by law, for us to fully underwrite the property for final approvals.

The loan file was thoroughly underwritten with our in-house wholesale investor relationships at that time (over 14 months ago) and the client's constant submission of documentation, that was not as portrayed, raised many red flags within a number of additional direct Banks that also reviewed the file.

In fact, the client immediately started the exact same process of false documentation submission with numerous other Banking institutions across the United States (Silver State Bank, BB & T, etc.).

The client also neglected to provide required information, as clearly outlined in the Underwriting Fee Agreement, the fact that there were numerous other Brokers involved in the deal (in fact they had one that had been trying to secure financing for them for over 4 years). It was not until well into the loan file that this was disclosed, not by the Borrower, but rather by numerous other Brokers, that this client had executed legally binding Fee Agreements with their firms also. This fact alone immediately canceled and forfeited their Underwriting Fee Agreement, for Breach of Contract, as an earned fee for the months of underwriting already completed under false pertinences. In addition, the client had been attempting to secure financing for this project for over 10 years with the same results.

The company stands by it Underwriting Fee Agreement that clearly states the legal terms and conditions for final loan approval. The client submitted numerous inconsistencies with the actual financials; including but not limited to fraudulent lease agreements, building cost pro formas and many other documents to our underwriters.

As a final note, this client was eventually offered, by way of a direct Bank relationship between our company and a VP of Silver State Bank a 50% LTV construction loan for $6,500,000 based on our underwritten loan file that takes into account the greatly reduced pre-leases, correct pro formas and accurate financials for the project. The client has declined the loan offer and continues to seek financing from other Banks based on their initial false loan submission to our company.

We, nor any commercial lending firm and/or Bank, would ever approve a loan for a client based on false information submitted for underwriting throughout the entire underwriting process. Thank you.

CLARIFICATION: The client has the appraisal that they were required by law and Banking regulations to procure (Appraisal Fees). The $10,000 Non-Refundable Underwriting Fee Agreement was fully earned and our underwriting work completed is well documented.
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