• Report: #544878

Complaint Review: Bank One - J.P. Morgan Chase

  • Submitted: Thu, December 24, 2009
  • Updated: Thu, January 14, 2010

  • Reported By: Jessica — Cherry Hill New Jersey United States of America
Bank One - J.P. Morgan Chase
145 East 13800 South Internet United States of America

Bank One - J.P. Morgan Chase JP Morgan No cap on insufficient funds fees. They just keep adding them up, $15, $32, $35. Charged $192 in one day for less than that amount in actual charges Internet

*Consumer Comment: That monthly fee...

*Consumer Comment: No need to be rude..

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Monthly charge for using debit card

*Consumer Comment: You are joking right?

*Consumer Comment: Yes, Really!

*Consumer Comment: Credit cards provide a bill.

*Consumer Comment: Yeah Chase!!

*Author of original report: Clarification

*Consumer Comment: I Mean Really

*Consumer Comment: an answer

*Consumer Comment: Really?

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Chase fails to tell you when signing up that your "debit" card is actually treated like a "credit" card. It will continue to allow you to "withdrawl" money that isn't there. I used my Chase debit card on a road trip across country, charging things like coffee for a $1, food for $4, so on and so on.

When I checked my account I had a negative balance of 800 and some odd dollars. Chase charged me about $630 in insufficient funds fees, you can do the math and see my actual purchases were way less than insufficient funds fees. I called the bank and told them this was outrageous, how in the world could they charge me that amount of IFFs on my amount for purchases. They told me there is no cap as to how much they can penalize me in one day or all together.

They did reduce the fees for me after a lot of phone calls, talking to different people, and stress on my end. I would recommend people don't use Chase. I told them that when my balance was $0 I would be closing my account. They told me I could get overdraft protection, I'll pass- and after reading other people's stories in regards to that, I know it doesn't really do you any good to have it. Just another way for them to make money.

My advice- go to a credit union. They are much better to deal with.


This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 12/24/2009 07:14 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Bank-One-JP-Morgan-Chase/internet/Bank-One-JP-Morgan-Chase-JP-Morgan-No-cap-on-insufficient-funds-fees-They-just-keep-a-544878. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
1Author 10Consumer 0Employee/Owner
Updates & Rebuttals

#1 Consumer Comment

That monthly fee...

AUTHOR: Edgeman - (U.S.A.)

Chase actually does have a term in at least one of their accounts. A monthly fee will be assessed unless you have direct deposit or make five debit card every month. If you don't meet those conditions, the monthly fee is $5.95. Any customer initiated swipe of the debit card will work. One could theoretically buy five cups of coffee with their debit card every month and the conditions will be satisfied.

With that out of the way, a prior rebuttal offered an incorrect premise. If that person was in another town and couldn't find a Chase ATM, he or she wouldn't have to pay out-of-network ATM fees. That person could simply run it as a non-pin transaction and that would still count.
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#2 Consumer Comment

No need to be rude..

AUTHOR: Ronny g - (USA)

Responses for Susan...I am not putting words into anyone else's mouth..these  are my opinions based on your replies...


"Really, does the bank follow you around with a gun and force you to use your debit card?"

Of course not. But is anyone forcing the bank to automatically enroll every single customer into courtesy overdraft protection? Or to re-sequence the order and times of our transactions (which coincidentally Chase will no longer be doing in the near future).

You are missing the point of this report. It is a complaint against the outrageous fees the bank is charging. Sure, if you never use your debit card you would never overdraft...and if you never drove a car you would never get a ticket either. This customer has a right to use a debit card and have a checking account. And they also have a right to know their rights..one of them being they did not need to be enrolled in overdraft protection.

Now speaking of which..near the end of the report the poster states..."They told me I could get overdraft protection, I'll pass- and after reading other people's stories in regards to that, I know it doesn't really do you any good to have it."

That statement is correct when dealing with a debit card that is used for everyday small purchases such as was done on this road trip. But it seems by this report that apparently the poster did have overdraft protection. So there appears to be additional confusion.

The purpose of so called "courtesy" overdraft protection..as well as the way the banks re-sequence and re-orders the times of our transactions, were intended to protect large CHECK transactions..such as a mortgage payment. But since this is dealing with many small transactions..the re-sequencing and OD protection do nothing but line the banks pockets with these outrageous, insane, unconscionable fees..since ALL the transactions are being covered regardless..Not just the large ones. And this is why I place some blame on the bank when this happens. The bank is not so innocent here..they are clearly and blatantly taking advantage of a mistake and/or misunderstanding here, as is quite often the case.

 " FYI there is no such thing as getting a monthly charge for not using your debit card."

I never heard of that either..but perhaps there is a bank that does?..if so maybe we can find more info if someone will post it.

  "You also claim stores double bill you, waitress bill double on tips and the pizza delivery guy charged you $22 instead of $20.  Really? it is everyone elses fault that you spend more than you have? "

I think it is obvious these are simply examples of how overdrafts can occur regardless of how well one keeps track of the account. It has happened to me as well on a few occasions. Now, since I am opted out of overdraft protection..these types of circumstances will no longer cause any fees..as if anyone else tries to spend more then I have, or I make an error and inadvertently attempt to use the card when the funds are depleted, the transaction is declined and my account is safe..from a mistake, or fraudulent activity AND most importantly... from the bank.

"I never have cash in my pocket so I use my debit card for every purchase. Yesterday I went to the store for milk.  It was on sale for $1.99 a gallon and I used my debit card to pay for it.  The difference is, we had money in the account to cover that debit."

Congratulations..you are now officially better then the rest of us in your own mind. But you do not know what the future holds. One day you may find out unless you think you are impervious to ever making a mistake or being subjected to a merchant error or unauthorized hold. Or perhaps you have so much money in your checking account you do not have to worry?

It is a fact that this customer was careless with the account..that is a given and the customer does not deny it. But at the same time...it is outrageous that the bank let the card usage go on and on after the account was drained..I mean why not notify the customer in case it was stolen or a mistake?..or even better...like the good ol' days simply decline the card if the funds are not available. Perhaps the bank thought this customer honestly intended to pay hundreds of dollars for a coffee and gas station sandwich? Or perhaps the bank believed it was extending a "courtesy" by assuming a hamburger purchase was a mortgage payment?

Now before I subjected to any vicious and personal attacks for simply seeing the side of this customer..and exposing the banks part in this..note that I am not advocating irresponsibility. However 50 million customers have been effected by these heinous fees, according to the FDIC report the banks will take in around 40 Billion dollars in these types of fees for 2009 alone. So this is not an isolated incidence..and not the result of any intent of stealing from the bank..or any illegal activity. It is in my honest opinion the result of a mistake..and the bank taking advantage of the very American citizens who bailed them out with taxpayer dollars during an economic crisis.

Now I hope no one has the gall to debate that, but I won't be too surprised if someone does.

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#3 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Monthly charge for using debit card

AUTHOR: Brett - (U.S.A.)

The person above who stated that Chase charges you a fee if you do not use your debit card is partialy correct. Chase does have an account that requires you to have EITHER direct deposit OR you need to use your debit card 6 times a month in order to not have the fee (ATM withdrawls do not count).

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#4 Consumer Comment

You are joking right?

AUTHOR: Susan - (USA)

You said


You should know that the Chase bank encourages their checking customers to use their debit cards as much as possible during the month... or they will apply a monthly charge.


So while to you it may seem ridiculous to charge $1, it makes sense if it would help avoid the fee (much higher than $1 of course) at the end of the month. What if there wasn't a chase atm machine?? So I will have to take out $20 and pay a foreign atm fee and a chase atm fee for a $1 coffee??!! Don't be ridiculous.


Really, does the bank follow you around with a gun and force you to use your debit card?  FYI there is no such thing as getting a monthly charge for not using your debit card.  You also claim stores double bill you, waitress bill double on tips and the pizza delivery guy charged you $22 instead of $20.  Really? it is everyone elses fault that you spend more than you have? 


I never have cash in my pocket so I use my debit card for every purchase. Yesterday I went to the store for milk.  It was on sale for $1.99 a gallon and I used my debit card to pay for it.  The difference is, we had money in the account to cover that debit.

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#5 Consumer Comment

Yes, Really!

AUTHOR: chase is evil - (United States of America)

You should know that the Chase bank encourages their checking customers to use their debit cards as much as possible during the month... or they will apply a monthly charge. So while to you it may seem ridiculous to charge $1, it makes sense if it would help avoid the fee (much higher than $1 of course) at the end of the month. What if there wasn't a chase atm machine?? So I will have to take out $20 and pay a foreign atm fee and a chase atm fee for a $1 coffee??!! Don't be ridiculous.


Moreover, it is absolutely soo very common to go over your account. I'm sure there have been instances where you were charged twice at a store or a waitress "misread" your tip on a receipt or you just simply didn't take into account the hidden money fee your bank was going to charge, etc. Not to mention that today when most Americans are struggling to get by, where every dollar counts.


Now, with that being said, the bank feeds on these mistakes, part of everyday life. So lets say you start your day with a $50 balance. (I live in nyc where its more card friendly than cash) With your debit card you bought (in order) your morning coffee $2.5, breakfast bagel $2, metro $4, lunch $6, chewing gum $1.5, afternoon snack $1.5, another coffee $2.5, take a cab home $10. Your finally home and decide to order pizza for the kids $18 add tip totaling $20 (cutting it close.. but payday is tommorow). But somehow pizza delivery guy thought I wrote 22... ooops now I'm over $2. Acknowledge the mistake a pay the $35 insufficient funds fee. Wrong... since they were all posted the same day, I will be charged $35 Nine Timess.. thats right nine times!! For all nine transactions made to overdraw my account which totals $315.. for being overdrawn $2. I wish I was making this up, but this happened to me last week. Unlike complaint above, I was not given the courtesy of reducing any of these outrageous charges!! I paid it and closed my account. That is just plain abuse, especially their lack of consideration when I addressed this to the manager. 


Off to a better bank, considering Wachovia. I've heard nice things from friends.

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#6 Consumer Comment

Credit cards provide a bill.

AUTHOR: Mia - (USA)

I was a little confused by your rip off complaint.  When you use your debit card the money is deducted from your account.  The same is true at Chase or Wells Fargo, Compass, Teachers Union, FPL Credit Union, etc.  A credit card is a separate line of credit accessed when you charge a purchase or service.  You are sent a bill at the end of the billing cycle and you pay either the whole amount charged or a minimum amount.  A debit card is attached to your checking account.  The, "limit" is what the balance is in the account, (although most cards have daily limits in case of fraud) and when you use the card the merchant is given an approval code, you get a slip to sign or your used your PIN number and the amount of the purchase is deducted from your checking account, in full.  There is no bill.  

I agree the amount of overdraft fees are very, very high.  However, that being said, banks make money off of client's who pose a risk.  It is the same as a client with poor credit who applies for a loan and they pay a higher interest rate.  If people are not going to manage their money the cost of doing business is high.  Until the name of the game changes it would be to the client's benefit to learn the rules an go from there.  Overdraft protection is there for situations like the one you have described.  If you miscalculate your balance, or a charge comes in you are not expecting, the ODP will allow you to have access to funds until your correct the error.  The charge for this service differs from bank to bank.  Chase charges nothing for this service unless you use it and then there is  a $10 per day charge.....not a per item charge like it used to be some time ago.  A ten dollar charge isn't a small amount but in case of an emergency I would rather have that, and a transfer from my savings account, than a overdraft and a fee per item presented, which can start at $25 and go up to $35 per item.  It can add up so quick.  

This is not a rip off.  This is a case of a client who failed to fully understand the ramifications of not having funds to cover purchases.  

Credit unions do charge clients when they overdraw their accounts just as commercial retail banks.  Also, here is a tip:  when your account at Chase goes to zero make sure to go into a branch and close it out completely.  You don't want to just leave it at zero and let the account service charge itself into the negative.  If the bank closes the account with a negative balance it will cause a bigger headache in the future for you because it will show up on your credit report.  Just go in and have them do it in front of you.  

Good Luck,

Mia
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#7 Consumer Comment

Yeah Chase!!

AUTHOR: Susan - (USA)

My husband and I each have debit cards that pull from the same checking account. Being Christmas this and that was spent. 

On the 28th I balanced our account and found we were $19.84 in the red, but the debits that did it on the 24th were still pending.   Online I transfered $200 from saving and expected bounce fees. The deposit was posted immediatly, the debits cleared later that day and Chase didn't charge us a single bounce fees. 

Course now we will have to pay $4.95 because our savings is below $300 but I will take that ding. lol

For the record, we do not have overdraft protection. Chase bought us from Bank One, Bank One bought us from First Chicago, they bought us from someone else whos name escapes me right now. 

In 20 years we have only paid bounce fees twice and both times it was our fault. 

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#8 Author of original report

Clarification

AUTHOR: Jessica - (United States of America)

I agree with everyone saying I am at fault for overdrafting. I never stated I was not at fault, read it, reread it.

My point is: to charge someone the amount of overdraft fees I was being charged was ridiculous. (Chase isn't my primary banking account). I bank with a credit union that uses a "debit" card as a "debit" card: Debit refers to an item of debt in an account. It is basically a financial amount that is deducted from an account balance. The credit union interprets this as- you don't have a positive balance, you don't take money out.  

Obviously the bank agreed to some degree that what they were charging in overdraft fees was ridiculous, or they wouldn't have reduced some of the penalties. That's clear. What I am trying to get across is beware of of banks that are going to charge you overdraft fees with no set limits, beware of banks that don't tell you your debit card is going to be used as a "credit" card. You can keep on charging without ANY money in your account.

Lastly, if I didn't take some responsibilty in overdrafting and would not have paid. What I am saying is- Really???? In these times do you need to charge outrageous amounts for a simple mistake. How about a flat rate, you spent too much- your purchases were clearly made all within a couple of days- pay $200. The end.  

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#9 Consumer Comment

I Mean Really

AUTHOR: Cory - (U.S.A.)

Didn't you stop to think how much money you were spending versus how much money you had in your account? Reminds me of the old girlfriend. She figured as long as she had checks, she had money. This is just the new version.
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#10 Consumer Comment

an answer

AUTHOR: Stacey - (U.S.A.)

YOU are at fault - using your debit card to charge $1?? Ridiculous!! From what I have read you do NOT keep a check register, reconcile your monthly bank statements nor want to take responsibility for your overspending

Good luck - the way you spend you will have the same problems at any banking establishment

BTW I do not work for Chase or any other bank - I learned the hard way how to watch my money ie overdrafting my account at my bank one too many times

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#11 Consumer Comment

Really?

AUTHOR: Susan - (USA)

Really?

Do you really need a bank to tell you that if you only have $1.00 in your account, don't spend $1.01? 

I just don't understand why people spend more than they have then blaim the bank. 

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