• Report: #99780

Complaint Review: Business Computer Training Institute

  • Submitted: Tue, July 20, 2004
  • Updated: Sat, March 31, 2007

  • Reported By:Olympia Washington
Business Computer Training Institute
Sleater-Kinney Rd. Lacey, Washington U.S.A.

Business Computer Training Institute, BCTI $10,000 rip-off of minorities. Lacey Washington

*Consumer Comment: BCTI Class Action

*Author of original report: Just dropping in to say.....

*Consumer Suggestion: Jason there is a suit here in WA

*Consumer Comment: I wonder what Mr. Gordon has to say now? ..rumored that he has done something unethical to get fired.

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Psychological Manipulation

*UPDATE Employee: Ray Lindley

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: respond to Sally

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Lonna

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Addendum on Education through Deception

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Education through Deception

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: I was an Instructor; my heart goes out to Gordon "The Professional"

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Contact the Department of Education

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: A company with no morals

*Author of original report: Gordon the "Professional"

*UPDATE Employee: there are and always will be dissatisfied customers and employees in any business

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: I can only agree

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: How do we contact you?

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I was 20 years old when one of the BCTI scavengers hounded me to go back to school. As they surrounded me in front of the unemployment office I fell into there trap. I had no job, I am a felon and I didn't have any real future.

They told me that I could have a great future, all I had to do was sign on the dotted line. So I decided to sign. When I found out how much it was going to cost I was going to back out. Immediately I was constantly being harrassed by the financial aid staff, until I agreed to attend.

They sold me all these dreams about getting employeed by a great company. To bad the career services is a joke and the turn over rate of the instructors at the "school" (placed in the middle of a strip mall) is ridiculously high. When I went to talk to one of the instructors I had when I attended, he was no longer employeed by BCTI. So I walked through the "school" and I didn't see a single person that wasn't new.

I have since researched about lawsuits against BCTI. The results are not much, but I did find a file about the Beaverton, Oregon school getting investigated for a couple different things. Please find as much dirt as you can on these con artists! If anyone files a lawsuit on BCTI please contact me. My friends and I will help with anything we can.

This is the story of a $10,000 dollar fraud. The events are factual. I did not get the training that they had promised nor did I get the job placement that they repeatedly told me I would get. I have had 3 jobs since BCTI. Two roofing jobs and now I work at a mushroom farm(and it stinks!)

BCTI is the biggest rip-off I have ever seen! Beware!!!!!!

Olympia, Washington

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 07/20/2004 02:52 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Business-Computer-Training-Institute/Lacey-Washington-98513/Business-Computer-Training-Institute-BCTI-10000-rip-off-of-minorities-Lacey-Washington-99780. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 Consumer Comment

BCTI Class Action

AUTHOR: Heather - (U.S.A.)

There is a class action lawsuit filed against BCTI. They are taking comments and calls from staff of BCTI and its affiliates as well as students who attended BCTI.

Pierce County Superior Court
Wright v. BCTI
Attorney: D Cochran
Search the web for BCTI Class Action for more information.
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#2 Author of original report

Just dropping in to say.....

AUTHOR: Jason - (U.S.A.)

I told you. Why, Mr. Gordon, would you ever doubt someone that was more qualified for your position than you were?

When the class action lawsuit is all over, Tom and Morrie get it where it counts, I will be laughing all the way to the bank.

I worked my a*s off, and now I am in an upper management position in a Fortune 500 company.

Jason "The Professional" hahahahahahahaha
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#3 Consumer Suggestion

Jason there is a suit here in WA

AUTHOR: Amber - (U.S.A.)

Jason if you would like to know about the suit in WA I can give you all the info. I have contacted the lawer and am waiting on a responce. I also went to the Lacey school and could use more people from our school.
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#4 Consumer Comment

I wonder what Mr. Gordon has to say now? ..rumored that he has done something unethical to get fired.

AUTHOR: Sally - (U.S.A.)

Knowing Mr. Gordon at the Tacoma campus, I thought of him as an upstanding guy. Still do, I just wonder what he has to say now that he got fired. Apparently it has been rumored that he has done something unethical to get fired. What I don't know, but I would be curious to find out. I would be even more curious to see what he says about the school now.
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#5 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Psychological Manipulation

AUTHOR: Holly - (U.S.A.)

I worked at BCTI for a grand total of 6 days. I had figured out their scam by the end of my second day, and spent the next four debating with my ethics if I could continue to work there.

During my training, I was taught to use carefully scripted psychological manipulation to make all applicants feel terribly about their lives and their selves. Then I would present BCTI as their saviour, the only being in the world who cares for them and provide them with an education. My manager specifically told me to "find their pain" and encourage it; I wasn't to proceed with the interview until I found that pain, either.

I mentioned to the manager that, in reality, any applicant could go to a community college and take all the same classes--many of them in extended education--for very little money, and all she said was: "We don't say that here."

The substantial tuition isn't even mentioned until the very last step of the applicant's interview. And the size of the loan repayments, as far as I know, isn't mentioned at all prior to signing. I did talk to one student who was about to start the second phase, and he said when he completes his "education," he'll have monthly payments of $800 on his loans. Yikes!

I also sat in on an interview of a young woman who had a self-admitted psychological disorder that made her unpredictable. She said that several career counselors have told her that she would be unemployable in an office setting because of her disorder. She had an AA degree in computers and had completed some university work towards it (in other words, the course material would be very basic for her). So, in other words, we had someone could do the coursework blindfolded but was clearly unemployable, and guess what: we signed her up!

The happiest day of my life was when I told my manager I was quitting as soon as possible. I think she knew that the two weeks' notice was ridiculous because if I were to stay there and see applicants, I would simply tell them the truth. I cleared out my office and left that day.
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#6 UPDATE Employee

Ray Lindley

AUTHOR: Sally - (U.S.A.)

His email address is: ray.lindley@state.or.us
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#7 UPDATE EX-employee responds

respond to Sally

AUTHOR: Lonna - (U.S.A.)

Dear Sally,

I would respond to Mr. Lindley I just don't have his e-mail or phone number.

All I can say is God Bless Darcie for stepping up to the plate and telling the truth.

It takes alot of courage to do what she did, and I believe that it's not always an easy thing to do, but it is the right thing.

I am still bound to my no compete contract,I'm not sure this would encompass the private sector.

I need to consult with my legal advisor. I will say this if you want to contact me through my own e-mail that's fine, and others may do so as well.

If you or anyone wants to get together I would be willing to do that.

My e-mail is lonna.w@netzero.com. then we can discuss this matter in private.

Take Care,
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#8 UPDATE EX-employee responds


AUTHOR: Sally - (U.S.A.)

Call the Ray Lindley at the Department of Education and Brent Huntsberger at the Oregonian! They are under investigation right now and your input is needed!
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#9 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Addendum on Education through Deception

AUTHOR: Lonna - (U.S.A.)

The article in the Oregonian had a comment from Tom Jonez regarding employees leaving for higher paying jobs.

This may be true for some, but most of the people I worked with were fired, let go, terminated and as a matter of fact, many did not get their unemployment, even though BCTI said there would not be a problem. In fact, their seperation papers also falsfied reasons for being let go.

I know this is a hire and fire at will state, it is my belief that companies should be held to a higher standard when it comes to employment law.

There is much deception, corporate wasn't paying attention. I find it odd that a company has 9 Vice Presidents, one is now fired for misconduct, however, they turned a blind eye to what was really going on.

If anyone wants to share their story with me, contact me through e-mail.

Lastly, let me say that their was much fraud going on, internally in the Lacey site, those who suffered the most were our students.

I was harrassed by BCTI when I resigned because I took another job with a Medical Vocational College. I got approximately 8 letters from BCTI threatening to sue me for a breech of contract.

I left due to the stress, yet they wouldn't leave me alone. I find it ironic, that even those who were fired from BCTI for misconduct got hired by this Vocational College.

I believe all Vocational and Trade Schools should be held to higer standards, and should be regulated and accessed more often, then maybe these lies and deceptioin won't accure,and more importantly students won't pay the Higher Price!!

I have more stories, so do many others if they're willing to step up to the plate and tell the truth.

We ourselves were victims, were were forced to sell a lie, if we didn't we were threatened with our jobs.

No on matters, and everyone is expendable!!
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#10 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Education through Deception

AUTHOR: Lonna - (U.S.A.)

Let me say on Darcie's defense, she is telling the truth.

I was a Consultant for BCTI for nearly 3 years.I resigned due to the lies and deception I was forced to sell.

It is true regarding students with disabilities, I had one also with a head injury, I specifically asked my Executive Director if I enrolled this person, would we be able to place him with an employer, her response was, "Oh yes, just enroll him.

Today, I see him just walking the streets, I feel so bad, because his Mother came to see me to Thank me for giving him a chance at 36 years of age. No one would help him.

I trusted what I was told by my superiors. I know now most of what we sold was a lie.

The last straw for me was I was forced to enroll a young woman who was deaf. The issue came up about a Certified Sign Interperter.

Our Executive Director said we would get her one but it would be 6 weeks. Instead, they got another instructor from Tacoma, she knew sign, but was rusty, and wasn't Certified.

This was so stressful for me as her consultant, her class and the Instructor.

As a result, she dropped out, even though she did have personal issues, she now owes that loan.

This was typical and business as usual. I was told all they had to do was sit for i7 days, then it wouldn't effect my bottom line.

We were always put under so much pressure. It was all about the money!!!!

I was told when I questioned things, that I had a bad attitude, yet I was one of their best Career Consultants. We were always put under pressure to win contests, which BCTI was generous in taking the winners on Trips twice a year. I won most trips, however, we always, had to attend advanced sales training meetings half the day then we had the rest fo the day to do stuff. It was a way for them to write off the expense.

Hope there is justice for those who have been hurt by BCTI. Most of those people I worked with at the Lacey Campus has been fired. They were all good people!!!

BCTI just throws people away when they're done with then=m or you don't play the game.

I was told that by a Director.
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#11 UPDATE EX-employee responds

I was an Instructor; my heart goes out to Gordon "The Professional"

AUTHOR: Barbara - (U.S.A.)

What everyone is saying is true!!
I responded to comments on this site at the beginning of June http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff65910.htm (just for your reference) and I included comments to all the students like you. We instructors who truly cared about you did our best to spare you the truth; not because we wanted to but because it would mean our jobs if we told the truth. As the investigation into complaints about the Beaverton site in Oregon continues, you should stay tuned or if you want to help, contact me at pencilgeni@msn.com and I will be happy to forward any and all of your complaints to those who are in the midst of the investigation into all allegations about just these kinds of complaints!! You are not alone!

To Gordon: I am including the paragraphs from my last rebuttal to the posting from Mark in Renton because I think you need to know that your instructors are human too!

I wish to honor every, single one of my former students and their desire to be successful. I want them to know that they hold the key to their own success in their hands. With determination, willingness and a desire to change, they can move mountains in their lives and careers. When they put their faith and trust in the hands of professionals who are truly dedicated to their success, in addition to the positive reinforcement of their dreams, they deserve to be told the truth about their individual abilities and accomplishments!! It is for this reason that I can no longer keep silent about the practices of an institution that I once believed was dedicated to this simple principle.

Those students who have gone on to create major changes and new dreams in their lives have done so with the full support and encouragement of every dedicated professional who walked with them through the program at BCTI. I don't wish to diminish their accomplishments in any way by my comments here. Rather, I will applaud them and all of the professional teammates I worked with at BCTI who were dedicated to this same goal. It is, however, extremely unfortunate that the actions of a few, in leadership positions, can so negatively and irreparably affect and tarnish the genuine accomplishments of the many in the overall view.

To Josh in Tacoma. I too was fired for misconduct after 4 1/2 years and fought the denial of my unemployment (see the last rebuttal from June 11) I have since been denied all the way to my last opportunity which is a petition to the Oregon State Court of Appeals. This costs $237 and probably needs an attorney of the caliber BCTI hires to conduct these kinds of cases against the loyal, long term, employees of BCTI just so they can SAVE A BUCK to help fund all the EXTRAS such as have been mentioned here.

I'm glad you were able to get a new job within three weeks. I am currently facing August without the rent and still unemployed. I was an instructor and a good one. Now I will accept cashiering if it will help me pay the rent. I have some possibilities and some interviews but I still don't have a job since March! I fought, I lost, and I'm still fighting. They have robbed me of my future as it was only the grace of my 401K savings that has gotten me this far! Do they care? NO! %#&*##@$#@#$$$$### !!!!!!

Add my voice to "a company without morals" SHAME ON YOU BOTH TOM AND MORRIE! i USED TO BELIEVE IN YOUR "MISSION". I devoted almost five years of my professional life to my students, my teammates (even if they only stayed a frew days or weeks based on either their enrollment numbers or their retention statistics") and to BCTI. I worked with a stellar team of instructors at Beaverton who CARED so much about their students that they sacrificed integrity so they could keep their jobs and continue to give these ADUTLTS what they were definately paying for!

Now is your chance to help see to it that it doesn't continue. I'm sure if you look up Brent Hunsberger at the Oregonian in Portland, OR, he will take your call or email. He is still working on this story and the Oregon Department of Education is seriously working on this investigation. I know because I'm helping them.

Since ripoff.com has to take links out, I will be happy to accept emails and redirect you to those who need your information. pencilgeni@msn.com They have damned near ruined my professional life but I can't sit by and watch it continue!

To Josh in Tacoma: They lied to the Employmnet Bureau and you didn't fight them so they won. I don't blame you but that is a legitimate charge! They lied to the Employment Bureau about me and I fought but they still won because, first, they sAw to it that I didn't have the finances to carry it as far as I need to go. I'm not giving up. Over $6000 in unemployment benefits certainly would have made my work search more tolerable thus far, not to mention the retirement fund I no longer have working for me!!

I won't let them get away with this and none of you should either. They are being investigated in Oregon because someone who knew the truth finally had the nerve to speak up! Contact the Washington Department of Education and file a complaint. There is PLENTY of evidence for ALL these claims and they've been getting away with it for a very long time! i'm not worried abouttheir attorneys any more, I'm not telling the lies, they are! I can back up and prove everything I say. I am looking forward to atime when I may have a chance to sit on a witness bench and testify under oath!

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#12 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Contact the Department of Education

AUTHOR: Darcie - (U.S.A.)

My post was edited and didn't include the most important part of my message. The Department of Education needs to hear from you all. The Oregonian needs to hear from you. I can't include their contact information because it is against the rules but BCTI is in the middle of a huge investigation and your knowledge of their bad business practices will help! Read this article and contact someone today!

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#13 UPDATE EX-employee responds

A company with no morals


BCTI's original goal was to try and provide skills to people so that they could find a job in todays workplace. That was a noble goal, but somewhere it went wrong.

You see, BCTI has found itself a nice little niche. There are many loans and grants available to the public, and even more of them are available if you have little or no income and are homeless. These are the people that BCTI preys upon. There is also *free* money that can be had from the government and this is used as a bribe to get many prospective students to sign on the dotted line.

Is this illegal? No. But to put someone that is homeless $8000 to $21,000 in debt is a questionable act. Many of these people just hear that they will get MONEY and don't realize what they are doing. Now you could say that this is the problem of the student. Yes, that may be true. But when you have an admissions team that badgers these people until they sign, not really giving them the full picture of what they are doing, it becomes questionable.

Also, the Admissions team is under a HUGE amount of pressure to get new students. In fact their jobs are on the line at all times. If they fail to meet their quotas, they are terminated immediatley. With this kind of pressure, they resort to anything to get people in. Is this their fault or the fault of the company?

Things have gotten so bad at BCTI that they have resorted to some pretty low practices.

For instance, in order to enroll AND get Federal funding at the school you must have a high school diploma or GED. This is a Federal guideline to ensure that the prospective student will be able to benefit from the program. If they don't have either of these, they must take an ATB (Ability to Benefit) test to make sure that they at least have basic math and verbal/reading skills. If they can't pass the ATB test then they don't have access to the funding or grants.

One of the Vice Presidents of BCTI got one of these tests, distributed it to some of the schools, where it was given to instructors who were told to *feed* the answers to prospective students so that they might pass the test and then be allowed to enroll. This is ILLEGAL! These tests are administered by an outside agencey and are NOT supposed to be seen by ANYONE but the person giving the test and the person taking it.

Once the students are enrolled and their loans have been authorized, the money is paid to BCTI in increments, based on the students attending class. Obviously, if the student drops then the payments stop.

The current director at one campus has been known to change the attendance records of students so that they won't be dropped from the system, thereby ensuring that BCTI still gets their money, even though the student is no longer attending. This is outright theft!!! Theft not only from the student who will be responsible for that money, but from the taxpayers who are funding that loan in the first place.

I have a message for Gordon. I am stunned that you would actually say that BCTI's, "customers are the employers" If you actually believe this and you are an instructor, then I feel sorry for your students. They obviously mean nothing to you.

At one time I had high regard for what BCTI stood for and what they were trying to accomplish. But it has become very clear in the past year that the owners are only interested in how much the school can do for them ($)and not what the school can do for the students. This greed permiates all levels of management and has ruined what was once a noble cause.

Tom and Maurie, you should be ashamed of yourselves.
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#14 Author of original report

Gordon the "Professional"

AUTHOR: Jason - (U.S.A.)

Well Gordon you can come at me with all your $10,000 words, but the proof is in the pudding. I received the "Directors List" award 4 out of 5 progress periods. The 5th progress period I missed my attendance but made up all my work. I am truly sorry that I missed such valuable time. My brother dying in a car crash is more important to me than any stupid BCTI crap.

The thing is that the instructors are just that, instructors. NOT certified teachers. That is why you are a liability to any company that tries to teach other people technical skills. Just because you are a flunkie does not mean that I am. In fact, I was showing the so called instructors new tricks that they were oblivious to. YOU are expendable, that is why BCTI has a very high turn-over rate.

And, what about the investigation in Beaverton, Oregon? Too high of an employee turn-over rate? Yes!

While we were in typing "class" the instructor would be in the back of the room looking at porn. Now how ethical is that?

One of my instructors now works at the Olive Garden. Where did you work before BCTI? I bet you were a gas station clerk, you acquired ten-key experience using a cash register. That is why you are such an asset to BCTI, right? Look in your own d**n mirror old man!
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#15 UPDATE Employee

there are and always will be dissatisfied customers and employees in any business

AUTHOR: Gordon - (U.S.A.)

As an instructor at BCTI for seven years, I can tell you that there are and always will be dissatisfied customers and employees in any business. There is never a guarantee of success in the world. Students who don't make the grade usually drop out, and employees who don't produce are generally let go. Both are usually unhappy, and some are vindictive. However for every failed student, there are hundreds who succeed, and obtain very good employment.

No one at any professional school, including BCTI ever promises students a job. We provide a placement service just like every other educational institution. Check out the drop-out rate for Pierce College or the University of Washington. Even if you graduate, having a degree does not mean you learned anything, it only means you had seat time for 2-4 years. How many people actually work in the field in which they received their degree. Vocational education is no different. Students must take ownership of their education and make a decision to learn and upgrade their skills. There is no such thing as education by osmosis.

My biggest frustration is not the curriculum or the company, but rather the small percentage of students who take up a significant amount of my time trying to prepare them for professional employment. Usually the challenges are related to attendance, failure to turn in assignments, an unwillingness to "cleanup" and general attitude. These behaviors seem to be a concern to employers. Our customers are our employers. It is difficult to place an $8.00 per hour employee in a $15.00 per hour job. Employers are not that stupid.

BCTI's vocational program is designed for "adults." I would really be interested in seeing Jason's track record while he was enrolled. There probably is a reason Jason didn't obtain professional employment, but before he throws too many rocks, he should probably take a look in the mirror.

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#16 UPDATE EX-employee responds

I can only agree

AUTHOR: Josh - (U.S.A.)

BCTI was a changing point in my life, one of those moments where something becomes clear and obvious, setting me on a different direction. It doesn't happen often in anyone's life and you have to grab hold of it when you see it. Here's what happened

I learned I was good at writing resumes.

And I had to be. I was an employment specialist and sometimes finding the students CAREERS was challenging. Not because of any fault on their part to be sure. Spotty work history, felonies, personal problems can all be hidden in the resume or worked out before hand. I was good at that. But how do you cover up completely inadequate training?

God Bless the instructors, they did everything they could to help the students learn practical and useful marketplace skills. But, when your curriculum is designed to simply pass accreditation and not excel, you will run into problems. BCTI's students pay from $10,000 to $21,000 for an education that will not significantly raise their standard of living, but they are promised entry level office administration or technical jobs. Quoting one fellow employee (still employed I believe),I hate to say it, but I wouldn't hire these students with these skills'. That from a guy who bled everyday for his students.

So how can BCTI advertise such a high placement rate (84% if you take a tour of a campus)? That one is easy, fudge the details or simply lie.

When we placed a student in a job that used skills learned at BCTI, it was called a Training Related Position, or TRP. TRP's are one of the pillars in accreditation, so the numbers need to be high. Now, what constitutes a Training Related Position is a matter of interpretation.

Would you consider working as a cashier at Wal-Mart a Training Related Position? BCTI does. Or how about McDonalds? Or a Shell Station? All were entered in as TRP's because they were using 10-key. I was even told to enter a student who THOUGHT about opening up his own computer repair shop ONE DAY. He didn't have the training, but that doesn't really matter; put him into the system. Do the students benefit from this, no. But, the school is able to keep accreditation for that much longer, and if you want to continue working for BCTI you'll do what you are told. Or play Tom and Morrie's game as many employees call it.

In the end I was sick of playing the game, and told my boss as much. However, I did not want to quit, so we worked out a deal where she restructured me on a Tuesday. I filed for unemployment, for the first time in my life, and was surprised when it came back contested. Apparently I was fired due to misconduct! They claimed I entered fraudulent TRP's into the system, which hurt the company, and that is why I was fired. So much for loyalty.

I responded by saying I was told by my superiors to enter all questionable TRP's and it would sort itself out later. The judgment came down against me. BCTI responded to my claim with Why would we sabotage our own accreditation by telling our employees to falsify information? A valid argument and completely believable unless you read the Ripoff Report or have worked at BCTI.

Anyway, I'm done. I won't appeal the ruling; it's just too much time and effort for nothing. I taught people how to find employment and as a consequence learned how to find employment for myself within three weeks. I have a good job now, nice employers, and a REAL sense of well being. If BCTI is investigated, it can do nothing but good and I support any effort to look into the company's methods.

Questions to ask about BCTI:

Why would a company dependant on placement of students fire 14 out of 22 employment specialists in one day?

And after the slaughter, why roll the remaining specialists up into a fake company (BCES) and make them work harder?

What percentage of students actually find Training Related Positions? (The answer could bring the whole company down)

How much money does BCTI owe in taxes? Are the layoffs or restructures to pay that off?

Why does BCTI own beach front property in the US and Mexico, a yacht, various cars, and donate generously to a church Tom Jonez and Morrie Pigot helped found?

Why do 40% of BCTI's South Sound work force hired in the past 6 months regardless of skill, go to that same church?

BCTI stresses being Available, Faithful, Teachable, Enjoyable, and Responsible so why haven't they surveyed the employees to see if the COMPANY is fulfilling that mission as a whole?

Is BCTI planning to sell to a larger corporation?

Why does the company only rent space, instead of actually owning capital assets? Is that any indication of the company's long term policy?

Why would BCTI hire Darrell Hughes, former CEO of Cognigen and master at organizing companies to look attractive to future buyers, but with little experience in Education, to become COO?

P.S. Jason, if you still want help, ask around about me... there are those who know where I am. I can help you.
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#17 UPDATE EX-employee responds

How do we contact you?

AUTHOR: Darcie - (U.S.A.)

Anyone who would like to come forward in this investigation should [Place your comments below and be sure to include your FULL contact information so Rip-off Report can contact you.]

BCTI is under investigation right now and any information you have can help!
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