• Report: #87654

Complaint Review: C R ENGLAND Trucking School

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  • Submitted: Wed, April 14, 2004
  • Updated: Mon, February 09, 2009

  • Reported By:clearwater Florida
C R ENGLAND Trucking School
289 Access Road Spartanburg, South Carolina U.S.A.

C R ENGLAND Trucking School ripoff a joke BAD BAD people Spartanburg South Carolina

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Close, but no cigar...

*UPDATE Employee: From the Inside............

*Consumer Comment: CR England is a bad egg

*Consumer Comment: Insurance

*Consumer Suggestion: Lease Program

*UPDATE Employee: More Info Please

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: I hear ya all!

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Cr England-not great, but not the worst either

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Anyone considering C.R England as a way to get their CDL should reconsider. I only wish I had a warning before going to one of their schools in South Carolina.

First off I was lied to and was even given a brochure that showed the so called facility. The brochure showed a brand new facility complete with a restaurant, stores, work out room, huge classrooms, barber shops, video area and lots more. The school recruiter said that someone would take us into town for any reason every hour on the hour. He also said that before we left the school we would have our CDL hard copy.

When I arrived at southcarolina by way of a greyhound I met the driver (Jamie ) He instantly yelled at the top of his lungs and talked so fast he reminded me of a drill seargent. (Not Pleasant) When we arrived at the school it was a joke. It looked exactly like a jail cement walls, very cold, grim faces, and nothing in that brochure was at that facility.

I was quickly shown my room which I think may have been smaller than a jail cell again the cement walls and very cold, but I wasnt worried at that point I could handle the accomadations despite the fact I had been lied to considerably. The room consisted of a bunk bed that could hardly fit and a locker that was used by what im guessing was high school students at a high school after reading all the grafitti.

The first week was all class work and many many many exams. If you plan on going there i hope you can write fast because the classroom instructor (Frank Z.) goes through it real fast and you better know it come exam time. The guy is not someone Id care to meet ever again he had a chip on his shoulder and looked down upon others with all his knowledge of being the instructor. Especially females. There was one female in our class and I fealt real bad for her. Frank came down hard on her and when she knew the awnser to a question he would never call upon her just ignore her. Everyone saw it but we were just there to pass the class and get through the week without problems So no one ever said anything.

We had to be in class from 7:00 am SHARP to 6:00 pm A very long day with about a year's worth of knowledge crammed into one week. Oh no dont think it had anything to do with the permit and general knowledge, air brakes, combination vehicles, or haz mat. We had to have that before we got there. We had to learn alot about the engine as if we were going to be working on the truck its self.

The only visual aids was franks art work he would draw on the board and then quickly wipe away to draw more. Thats right the A** hole would sit up there and draw pics for us. Funny I know but if you had to look at frank all week you wouldnt be smiling I mean the guy was that bad. Even worse when he would try to crack his charcastic jokes which were usually an insult to someone else.

At lunch time you had to run to the bus if you wanted to go to town to get something to eat because (Jamie) the driver only took people into town twice a day (not every hour on the hour) If you didnt make it then you better have money for pizza or the vending machines because you were not eating if you didnt make it outside fast enough. Which was pretty hard when Frank the instructor would give out exams just before you went to lunch. I made it on the bus a few times and the driver dropped us off at a certain location where we would then have to walk to get something to eat. Then walk back at a specific time to meet jamie the wanna be drill instructor.

If you were not there in time then he would leave you and you better have money for a cab because he wouldnt come back to get you. Then at 6: pm right when class is letting out you would have another opportunity to go to Walmart Again you better run from your class to the bus or your left behind. That was it except for sundays then good ole Jamie wouldnt take you to lunch he said you can order pizza at your own expense of course.

You are pretty much stuck at that school at all other times. I only saw one girl who got taken to town when she wanted (Debbie) and um We were all pretty sure she was "doing" half the people in there. I think she was a lot lizard turning into a driver and turning tricks while she was learning new things.Yep a major hoochie that everyone called Lucy as in LOOSEY
:booya:

Don't get me wrong there was one sweet female there who wanted to make her own way and not lay on her back to get there and she got (atleast)my respect, but not much of anyone elses. No they wanted the open spaces (Debbie) AKA Lucy or Loosey

So we got through the class which was the first week but the female was given a hard time and was even threatened by the instructor that she may fail because she was late twice. Again I fealt sorry for her because many had fallen asleep in that class and was late coming back from break but nothing was ever said to them only her.
I wanted to be the good guy and say something but I just wanted to get my CDL and be gone.

Week two----FUN (wrong) Monday it was time to be out to the yard at 6:00am sharp about 45 degrees and pouring down rain and I mean pouring down rain. POURING!!!! Yes we had to stand in the freezing cold rain for 10 hours. My arms were turning blue and do you know how many short backing manuvers I was given in ten freezing , wet hours??????????????? ONLY 3

Do you think I learned much???? No!!!!

Tuesday out to the yard 6:00 am sharp again pouring down rain and freezing cold. Some of the guys started to complain at which time a rusty old steel barrel was pointed out. We had to go fetch wet firewood so that we could start a fire in the barrel to stay warm. Wet fire wood? LOL i was starting to be convinced that this was a bootcamp or some type of punishment for wanting to be a trucker. I mean come on now 10 hours and three times in the truck the day before and now we were suppose to be stupid enough to try this again?

Okay so Im optimistic and said I can deal with this. I fetched some wet wood and I ripped up notebook paper and notes to stay warm. The trucks mirrors were viberating violently not to mention the pouring down rain and we were suppose to see a little yellow cone in our mirrors about 80 feet back???? LOL

Just from the three backing chances the day before I was suppose to know how to do this. No coaching this time The instructor (Chad S.) Yelled that if one of the cones gets knocked over then you get out and pick it up. He was aggervated and VERY impatient. If you were turning the wheel the wrong way he would motion and jerk his hand the other way then shake his head and yell and scream like a BIT*CH

My second day on the yard my poncho stuck to my face, Every hair on my head dripping freezing water in my face as I consentrate on a viberating mirror for a cone and this Chad F*ck tells yells and screams in my way one to many. 24 hours later Im back at home and Im warning you if you go to C.R England you will be sorry. Its a joke and stop to ask yourself why its so cheap. There is a reason for it. Because you wont have hardly anytime in that truck. The trucks they do have for training are riddeled with problems. The air brakes leaking, mirrors viberating. worn out clutches, non working windshield wipers in the pouring down rain, non working heat, impatient instructors who are pissed to be out there as much as you in the rain and cold. Take notice its nowhere you want to go if you want to learn.

YOU WONT LEARN ANYTHING AT C.R. ENGLAND!! If you have some experience with a tractor trailer then you might have some luck if you can stand the conditions. But I saw guys there that had experience and were going on their fifth week there. They say they dont check your credit and all that for the loan but im hear to tell you that they do and if they think that you wont be able to pay them back without working for them then they will make it twice as hard for you and may not pass you through the first class and send you home at your expense of course.

They won't let you get in that truck if they think you don't qualify for the 3000 dollar loan but they wont tell you that they will just flunk you or make it extremly hard on you so that you want to go home or they may lie and say you have high blood pressure to get you to go home. I saw this done to many of people.

But the people who paid up front or the ones who have good credit they try to atleast be friendly to those folks. But even if you do pay up front or have good credit dont expect to get your monies worth because you wont even if you pass the class the jobs at C.R. England are nothing you'd want atleast thats what I was told by every trucker that came in there who was on a layover. One guy said the truck that you will get will be a junker and more than likley you will have to ride with someone to go pick it up (umpteen miles away because the last driver abandoned it there and quit. Bad company full of lies and alot of A**holes working for them but if I had to stoop to that company then I might be an A**hole too.

Andy
clearwater, Florida
U.S.A.

Click here to read other Rip Off Reports on CR England

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 04/14/2004 02:35 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/C-R-ENGLAND-Trucking-School/Spartanburg-South-Carolina-29303/C-R-ENGLAND-Trucking-School-ripoff-a-joke-BAD-BAD-people-Spartanburg-South-Carolina-87654. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Close, but no cigar...

AUTHOR: Txrob - (U.S.A.)

The poster above recommended getting a partner to drive with... If you're going to stay at CRE then do NOT get a team driver. You want to become a CAT trainer for as long as you can, and then become a driver trainer. These are the ONLY ways to make any kind of money at CRE. Granted, the people you're training are going to be pissed off just like we all were for feeling like they're getting the short end of the stick, but they are still "paying" for their training. I was with CRE for a year, leased a truck and lost my ass in the beginning, but I fired my driver manager, got into CAT training and finally started making money, and then got into driver training.

Also your driver manager is the person who makes you the best money, if you get a bad one, you'll do a LOT of sitting, get a good one (Ryan Johnson for example) and he'll keep you rolling, send you where you want to go and even try to get you home when you need to be there. He actually cares about his drivers because they are who makes HIM money as well...
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#2 UPDATE Employee

From the Inside............

AUTHOR: Employee - (U.S.A.)

Well, now, being on "the inside" I am seeing the way things really are, not what they tell you.


Seriously - You can not make $80,000 driving a truck, first year.
Well, here is the REAL story :
You have to Lease the truck, so every expense (EVERY) is on you. So, yes, you make the $80,0000, but you are stuck with about $60,000 in expenses, mostly fuel, insurance, and maintenence.

If you are solo or a company guy - forget it, because the law says you have to shut down for 10 hours after 11 driving. You are lucky to make $500 week. Because you only make 26 cents per mile. So, in a perfect world, you drive 600 miles a day, legally - that's about the max.

You don't get paid for sitting at the shipping yard, while they are 3 hours late getting your load, you don't get paid for sitting at the receiver's yard while the guys are taking their dear sweet time unloading your trailer.
Lots of unpaid down time.

And - the Leasing guys get all the actual Long haul miles, because they want them to make the $$$ so they don't default on their lease. (I did the math - you gotta run about 3000 miles / week to break even). So the Lease drivers are driving and dropping stuff off at a drop yard, hooking up something else, and off they go. A Company guy is going to go to the yard, and actually take it to the shipper - which means low miles & lots of waiting around.
That is not good.


The only way to make money is to get a partner, and keep the wheels rolling - 24/7 - even while you sleep. It will not be restful, as you will be tossing and bumping around, but you might make $650/$700 week.

Then after 6 months, be a trainer. You get paid all the miles he drives, so you might make $1000/week.

And this is what you make for learning a very stressful skill, and giving up your family & entire life for.
I left my wife & kids on Jan. 8th. Have not seen them since.

I had to sit for an UNPAID 5 day orientation, and then sit (unpaid) for 5 days in the motel while they found a driver to send me out with. Then I drove for the 11 hours, sleep 10, drive 11, sleep 10 etc, nonstop for 5 days streaight as we drove from LA to Wisconsin. I got paid $50/day for 5 days, as he had 2 days off, and I had to live in the cab of the truck in the parking lot for those 2 days.
I did that for 3 weeks - hoo boy, $250/week for 3 weeks.
Now I am with a Leaser , so he does no stops - wheels turn 24/7. But, my first week, ,we sat in Illinois for 2 days, so my fourth weeks's check was only $300.

The next weekend , we had to sit for another 2 days because the only trailer available had bad brakes , ao it took those 2 days to fix them, and they wouldn't let us off that load, so someone else could come get it when it was fixed.

So, now I am about 2 months behind on the bills, and the wife is all stressed out because she is alone with the kids, and th4e phone keeps ringing with bill collectors calling..
So, actually doing this job put be behind about $3000 for the first 2 months.


And - you betterget used to typing posts and making spelling errors, as the truck is very bouncy back here while I am posting this.


So - If you can earn more than $500/$600 week doing something else, I would HIGHLY reccommend it.
If you are in your early 20's - no house, no wife, no kids, no bills - I would say Go For It - get a partner, & lease it. You will do allright.
And, after 2 years of it you can go somewhere else for more money, as now you have real over the road experience. Maybe go get your HazMat endorsement, then.

There IS money to be made, here - but this is the only way to do it. Get a partner, and Lease, and get a NEW truck - one that won't break down.
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#3 Consumer Comment

CR England is a bad egg

AUTHOR: Anthony - (U.S.A.)

CR England is well known on the streets for it's horrible abuse of drivers, and especially known for how they abuse newbies. Their safety record is horrible.

From the pay, to the working conditions, to one of the worst lease/purchase programs that is a one-way ticket to bankruptcy, this company is nothing short of one of the worst companies that anyone on any level can hook up with.

Don't take my word for it. Google 'em. Read what can be found on this site. There isn't a Hollywood writer alive who could pen a script for a horror movie, that can begin to rival what you can read online in regard to this company.

I have a simple motto that has never let me down. It's easy to ignore a complaint or two. There are people on this earth that wouldn't be satisfied if they were paid a million dollars a week to just show up for work and sit there for eight hours a day. It's a little harder to ignore fifty complaints. Where there's smoke, the fire is surely lurking somewhere. It's insanity on one's part if they find hundreds of complaints, and they even consider picking up the phone to inquire.

This company needs to go the wayside of others who have infested this industry to do nothing but walk on the backs of employees for the sake of profit. When they stoop to abusing unsuspecting people who know nothing about the trucking industry, there is a special hell for people who do this.

Don't get me wrong. Everyone who is looking to get into the industry, and who can meet the standards, deserves a shot. There's just better companies out there, and better ways to go about achieving the same goal.

The fact is, this company and a few others out there like it, have tapped all the experienced resources of the labor pool. If they were worth working for, the applications would be piling up on the desks, having been submitted by experienced drivers. Thus, they depend on "fresh meat", the inexperienced and those unaware of the reputation they have amassed.

And as much as it would serve humanity for this company to go bankrupt, so long as they can draw people into the doors by whatever means they can conjure up to do so, they will continue to thrive.

Don't let yourself be the next victim. There are better options for employment within this industry...trust me.
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#4 Consumer Comment

Insurance

AUTHOR: Thadius - (U.S.A.)

The only thing I didn't notice in your lease plan by these thugs was insurance which was a minimum of $138.06 a week with a note at the bottom,
*Rates subject to change*

Totalling an additional $552.24 every 4 weeks the leasee is mugged of by these corporate criminals.
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#5 Consumer Suggestion

Lease Program

AUTHOR: Marc - (U.S.A.)

Lease Program
Proposed by CR ENGLAND

http://www.crengland.com/jobopp/index.jsp?page=ind_contractor_leasing

As proposed and presented in the example of independant contactor revenues and expenses for a solo driver. Projection do not include quarterly Income Taxes or health benefit.

Projection based on 158,000 miles ran in a 1 year period.

1 Take 150,800 miles per year or 2900 miles per week for 52 weeks.
To maintain the validity of these numbers the driver contractor must understand that there are no vacation time.

2 Lets assume the driver takes 1 day off every 11 days, this means the driver must travel 150,800 miles within 332 days at a rate of 454.21 miles per day.

3 In order to run 454.21 miles a day the driver must maintain an average moving speed of 45 miles per hour for 10.09 hrs daily. (One must account these variables, highway miles travel at 70 miles per hour, traffic time, bridges, tole, weather conditions, detention downtime. breakdown, loading and unloading, and god forbid emergency stops to go to the bathroom.) I think that this conclusion is more than reasonable.

4 The example given shows 2900 miles paid at .90per miles for a total of 2625.00. According to my calculation the total would be 2610.00, small discrepency of 15.00 a week or 780.00 a year.

5 Pick up drops and detention pay are scrutinized by most companies and the driver usually gets the low end of the bargain.

6 Fuel 6.1 mpg with fuel cap of 1.25 per gallon, 2900 miles under this equasion is 594.00.
(My understanding is that traffic time, Idling, running air conditionning, and milage to get to the destination may be scrutinized by the company and may affect these numbers. If the vehicule drops to 5.6 mpg and I beleive it is fair to say, the weekly expense would then be 647.32 per week .
A difference of 53.32 or 2772.70 per year.

7 General reserve, a .07 cents per miles for a total of 203.00 cap at 10,000. This is a reserve managed by the cie for maintenance of the vehicule, breakdown of items not under warrenty, tires and other issues the vehicule may encounter. It would be unwise to assume that the contributor would get a refund for unused maintenace reserve at the end of the lease .It would be wiser to expect and hope that no invoice or bills come from not rendering the vehicule in perfect condition.

8 Variable milage payment is 14cents per milesx2900miles=406.00 .This amount must be added to the contactor initial truck payment of 459.00 weekly for a total of 865.00 weekly payments,3748 monthly,or 44980 yearly.

Lets assume the vehicule is use and is worth 90,000 and has 250,000miles. If the vehicule was finance to purchase over 60 MONTHS@44% INTEREST Payments would be 3729.88

CONCLUSION

As of last year we have heard more and more about predatory financing, mostly in real estate.
Many were sold loans on house they couldnt afford, with creative option arm program and no down financing, interest only loans.

It has become evident as of lately that many will need to foreclose and find themselves owing more that what they are worth.

The trucking industry seems do be going into the same direction. There is no way to sugar coat the numbers of such a lease, more than I have just did, and even then the bottom line is negative.

It just doesnt add up.

any comments will be appreciated
CRAM ODAN
CONSULTANT
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#6 UPDATE Employee

More Info Please

AUTHOR: Marty - (U.S.A.)

I am about to start the driving school in California in order to get my CDL, I've read a few reports so far that suggest I start running in the opposite direction! Are there any positives in shelling out the $2k for the course.
Do they gaurentee you a job at the end of your training?
What's the deal with the "lease" that I keep reading about?
Do you still need to redo your driving/written test at the DMV?

Any info would be greatly appreciatted, Thanks
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#7 UPDATE EX-employee responds

I hear ya all!

AUTHOR: Jeffrey - (U.S.A.)

If you have any depression at all, do NOT attend their schools! I was lucky enough to go to an outside school, MTC, so it was a LITTLE nicer than Spartanburg, but I cant really say much about it. I went to paducah, KY. You actually had a hotel room.

I felt bad because a lot of these people came to this school on a bus, with just a few pairs of clothes, & no money.

They offered a lunch & dinner but it was more like prison food, not enough to satisfy MY hunger. You cant say much though because a lot of us paid nothing out of pocket. I was lucky enough to have driven there myself, & had enough money to get me by for a few weeks, so I was able to do & go where i please, & could bail any time if needed.

I stuck in there, got my CDL & was off. I have mixed feeling about the school, the training was AWFUL but the people I met were COOL! I met a lot of cool people who were in the same boat I was!

Many of times, I would ask people at the hotel room, ect if they wanted a ride to wal-mart, or wherever. I just felt bad that these people came with NOTHING. i mean NOTHING! Just having my car made the experience a little more bearable, but its still tough leaving home & changing your whole entire life for this.

I just feel awful about how this company plays with your dreams & heart. These people come in here, trying to make a better living for themselves, trying to have a decent life, & this company rips you off like this. i dontreally need to explain how, I think we all know what they've done & told, everything BUT the truth. Its a shame.

I went to Spartanburg, which was supposed to be 3 days, apparently we were the last group to be going through this orientation class because they were closing that facility down because the state of south carolina wanted close to a million dollars for learning facility. If oyu call it that. So all the employees really could care less if they helped you or not, they were gonna be canned in 2 weeks! a 3 day ordeal turned into a week long ordeal. waiting for my trainer, ect.

THAT PLACE WAS A DUMP! I would have rather have driven out to Salt Lake City if I knew that place was that bad! ugh how depressing that week was. I still think back & it makes me sick! My car saved my sanity. Just knowing I could leave when I wanted. Having no TV, or anything I would just go out to my car & sit there, or go for a drive. Thats the only way I made it through the CDL training & orientation..only to go out with a stinky fat miserable redneck & make 250 dollars a week. Needless to say I quit after the first month. Im making more money driving local for a company making almost 3 times what I was making there! & Im home every day!
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#8 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Cr England-not great, but not the worst either

AUTHOR: Paul - (U.S.A.)

In response to Andy, from Florida. Dude, it sounds like you didn't have much fun with England. I worked at England for a very short time. Let me tell you my experiences. First, I went to the SLC(Salt Lake) main terminal. Super nice. That's what you saw in the brochure. Cafeteria on property. Rooms are same as hotel rooms, except with 10 beds, bunk-bed style. A good place for a student to learn. The reason you learn on junk is because students tear up the trucks. Can't blame England for that. I came to England with some experience, and had my CDL already. I was there for orientation. Out of a dozen companies, England had the best orientation by far. Lots of information. I learned a lot in those few days. Decent people running orientation, too. I didn't know about lease rip-offs in those days. I was too new. So, I said sure, I'll lease a truck. That's where the whole problem started. I had to go out with a lease trainer for 2 to 3 weeks. I got this dumb-ass black fuck named Walter Wharton. He's a little guy who owns his own truck. Not leases, but owns. Or rather, making payments. Like $1600 a month. The problem is that Walter isn't very smart. He came to England after being homeless. Now, he is in a truck and has some money to spend. But, he spent every dime he ever got. When all his money was gone, he started signing up for credit. He bought a new house in West Valley. His wife had a new or late-model suv. So, now Walter is stuck with all these payments to make. The only problem is that after 6 years of OTR driving, he is burnt out with it. So, what is he to do? Well, along comes England and tells Walter that he can train. Trainers make extra money. So, Walter decides to train teams. A husband and a wife, plus him, in the truck. That's great for Walter. First the man drives, then the wife. Walter doesn't have to drive. But, he gets the lion's share of the money. He didn't even want to work with me. I was a solo. But, England assigned him. So, off we go, hauling refrigerated loads all over the country. Naturally, Walter, human piece of shit that he is, refuses to allow his co-drivers to stop the truck for physical needs. No food, no rest room stops. No showers. Of course, he brings his food along in a cooler, so he eats. And, on his shift, he stops to wash up anytime he likes. But, his student doesn't get any of those opportunities. Basically he uses the students like they are his personal slaves. I knew this would happen before I even left with him. He had a bible in his sleeper. Anytime you have somebody who is heavy into religion, you know you will get treated badly. That's why they are into religion. They know they are a trash person, so they are looking for salvation. The problem is that they keep on treating people badly. Anyway, after 9 days of fuel-stop hot dogs for my meals and holding my piss all day while I drove, I said enough. I got off on the 80 somewhere in Nebraska and threw my shit out of the truck. As luck would have it, the greyhound was parked at a meal break right across the street. I went over, bought a ticket home and never looked back. Last I seen of Walter, he was typing his whole story into the Qualcomm. I called England and told them. They offered to send a driver to pick me up and start the training again. But, I declined. England seemed like a decent company up to that point. But, it turns out that they sell the student to the trainer for $46 a day. The trainer can run the student as long and hard as they like. Naturally, most trainers are happy with 400 to 500 miles. They don't want you to run hard and fall asleep and get the both of you killed. But, nor Walter. His back is up against the wall. He has to have a certain amount of money just to keep his bills paid. It never dawns on him that the student isn't the one who ran up all his bills. In true pimp fashion, he has no human concern for anyone. He'll run his students to death if that's what it takes to make his nut every month. England looks the other way. That's the one thing they did wrong. First, they had money invested. They paid my bus up to SLC, my room and meals, and my orientation expenses. What did they get? Little or nothing in return. I walked away never to return. Second, they almost lost a lot more. I was so tired one night that I went to sleep. What the hell, it wasn't my truck. Let it get smashed up. I was so new that I thought that the truck gently runs off the edge and rolls over onto it's side. I figured I wouldn't get hurt. Man, that was a bad idea. Lucky I didn't get killed. Walter was asleep the whole time. The idiot would never have known what hit him. If I had drifted over to the left, I could have hit a car head-on. England would have to pay. That's what they risk when they do nonsense like this. I really don't think they are smart enough to figure all this out. They are like so many companies, desperate for drivers. Of course, they aren't desperate enough to treat the drivers that they do have in a decent manner, so they won't want to quit. Out of all the companies (14) I worked for, KLLM was about the best. They're a reefer company. Jackson, Mississippi. They aren't great. They still run you to death. But, the pay is right. And most of the dispatchers make sense. I'd put KLLM at the top of the list in a industry filled with rip-offs and poor working conditions. England is a little farther down on the list.
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