• Report: #204852

Complaint Review: COMMUNITY BIBLE CHURCH

  • Submitted: Mon, August 07, 2006
  • Updated: Fri, September 17, 2010

  • Reported By:san antonio Texas
COMMUNITY BIBLE CHURCH
1604 & GOLD CANYON SAN ANTONIO, Texas U.S.A.

COMMUNITY BIBLE CHURCH THERE ARE NOT CHRISTIANS IN THIS CHURCH!!! ripoff SAN ANTONIO Texas

*REBUTTAL Individual responds: What is a Christian

*REBUTTAL Individual responds: Singles Group

*REBUTTAL Individual responds: CBS is a business

*Consumer Comment: Be Forgiving

*General Comment: Richard, please contact me.

*Consumer Comment: I CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU WROTE.

*General Comment: How did they rip you off?

*General Comment: no rebuttal..

*Consumer Comment: Dude, Seriously?

* : Where are all the so called "christians" from CBC at?

* : RR That's what i thought, ALL mouth!!!!!!!

*Author of original report: To the last rebuttal named: RR

*Consumer Comment: rebuttal to Richard

*Consumer Comment: Read the book of REVELATION in your bible, Don't be discouraged by corrupt churches

*Consumer Comment: CBC is an incredible Christian fellowship.....however, Christians aren't perfect

*Consumer Comment: CBC is an incredible Christian fellowship.....however, Christians aren't perfect

*Consumer Comment: CBC is an incredible Christian fellowship.....however, Christians aren't perfect

*Consumer Comment: Community Bible church is a Great Place!

*Consumer Comment: I'm Not Impressed

*Consumer Comment: you think that is bad?

*Author of original report: this is what i get..............

*Consumer Suggestion: Does the bible church have a bible?

*Consumer Comment: "I HEAR YOU"

*Consumer Suggestion: stop the bull horm

*Author of original report: Dear Steve In Killeen, Texas

*Consumer Comment: Dear Richard

*Consumer Comment: DEAR DONTBE IN HOUSTON TEXAS....

*Consumer Comment: Christians are People too

*Consumer Comment: God has a plan...

*Consumer Comment: I pray that you get a life!!

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I USED TO BELONG TO CBC IN SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS. I DATED A GIRL THAT WAS NOT A MEMBER,HER NAME IS LORI ALBAUGH, SHE AND HER FRIEND THAT I USED TO WORK WITH, EVE, TOLD SOMETHING TO THE CHURCH AND GOT ME THROWN OUT OF THE SINGLES CLUB, WHICH I LIKED ALOT, AND WAS DOING VERY WELL. I WENT TO TALK TO THE CHURCH COUNSELOR, AND HE TOOK THEIR SIDE. THE CHURCH SHOULD HAVE TALKED TO ME FIRST, TO FIND OUT WHAT WAS GOING ON.

TO THIS DAY I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPEN. THIS CHURCH ALLOWED TWO NON-MEMBERS TO SAY WHATEVER THEY WANTED, AND I WAS NOT ALLOWED TO DEFEND MYSELF. THE LAST TIME I WENT TO THE CHURCH, NOBODY WOULD TALK TO ME, AND HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ME WHATSOEVER.

NOW SOMEBODY TELL ME, IS THAT WHAT CHRISTIANS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE LIKE. TO ME THEY ARE A BUNCH OF HIPPOCRITS. I DO NOT WANT SOMEBODY TO WRITE BACK TO ME, AND SAY WE WILL PRAY FOR YOU, YOU SHOULD PRAY FOR THE PEOPLE IN THAT CHURCH. I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT THESE PEOPLE IN THIS CHURCH WERE ALLOWED TO TREAT ME THIS WAY.

Richard
san antonio, Texas
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 08/07/2006 07:34 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/COMMUNITY-BIBLE-CHURCH/SAN-ANTONIO-Texas-78232/COMMUNITY-BIBLE-CHURCH-THERE-ARE-NOT-CHRISTIANS-IN-THIS-CHURCH-ripoff-SAN-ANTONIO-Texas-204852. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
0Author 27Consumer 3Employee/Owner
Updates & Rebuttals

#1 REBUTTAL Individual responds

What is a Christian

AUTHOR: Greg - ()

Richard

 

The word "Christian" was a name used (in a mocking context) for followers of Christ.  It meant "Little Christ".  To me, a Christian is one that has experienced the transforming work of God is his or her life.  Recognizing that I was inherintly sinful and need a saviour to pay the penalty for my sins.  The person wias Jesus Christ.  If you truly want that changed life, do as I did in 1975 - simply call out to Him and He will do the rest.

I would suggest that you find another church.  In my opinion (being a member at one point), CBS if run more as a business than a church.  The leadership are for the most part retired CEO's from large corporations.  Even though I believe that Pastor Steve has a heart for God, but instead of having financial people on his staff, he needs Godly men to serve as Decons.  Most of the leadership have little or no theological training.  Some have studied online courses with Liberty University, but that is about it.  John McArthur calles such churches as "Church of the Tiers".  Find you a church that you can learn and grow through effective Bible teaching and fellowship with other believers.  Make sure your reason for being their is to fellowship with God and those other believers - not to find a girl friend.  If you truly trust Him - a singles group is not needed - He will bring that special someone in your life.

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#2 REBUTTAL Individual responds

Singles Group

AUTHOR: Greg - ()

Just curious Richard - Why are married women attending a Singles Group?

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#3 REBUTTAL Individual responds

CBS is a business

AUTHOR: Br. Concerned - ()

CBS is a business operating as a church.  The leadership is primarily CEO's of businesses with no or very little (Liberty University online courses) theology training.  Pastor Steve is credable and has a heart for God, but have some real concerns with others on his staff.  The Pastor cannot not do it alone - he needs "Called of God" - Biblically sound staff members to help in leading such a large body of believers.  He needs Godly men as Deacons to help in the effort - not retired CEO money changers from large corporations. 

 

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#4 Consumer Comment

Be Forgiving

AUTHOR: Noah - ()

I have gone to this church since I was literally in my mothers womb. I have never met nicer people. Yes there will be people who do not do everything right, and they don't always do the most christiany thing, but they are people too. You cannot simply blame the whole (massive) church for the mistake of just a few. What a christian would do is forgive. Even though they may have not, and are not being christian-like in the way they have treated you, does not mean you should not act christian-like back. Forgive. Realize they could have made a mistake, for that's what we all do, but don't stay bitter by any means. That is no way to stay in this life. This church has taught me so many great virtues and I treat every person I know as equal as I can. Again, I hope you have gotten over the mistake of these few people and have learned to forgive. I hope you have a grand day. thank you.

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#5 General Comment

Richard, please contact me.

AUTHOR: brian - ()

Richard, please contact me. I have heard of this happening to another person in san antonio. brianthompson.esqatgmail  Are you still here or have you moved? Brian
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#6 Consumer Comment

I CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU WROTE.

AUTHOR: Joe - (U.S.A.)

WHAT ABOUT SPENDING MORE TIME ON YOUR EDUCATION TRYING TO WRITE A SENTENCE THAT MAKES SENSE AND LESS TIME CHASING GIRLS IN A CHURCH --- OF ALL PLACES.

GET A GOOD EDUCATION AND THE REST FOLLOWS.

THERE MUST BE A LOT LEFT OUT HERE.

SO LEAVE AND DON'T GO BACK. A CHURCH IS A PLACE TO WORSHIP AND IT CAN BE A PRIVATE SOCIAL CLUB AND THEY CAN THROW OUT WHOEVER THEY WANT.


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#7 General Comment

How did they rip you off?

AUTHOR: Non-redneck - (U.S.A.)

I don't see how they ripped you off. Did they con you out of money? Imprison you? Beat you? Make false promises to you? I don't see a valid ripoff.
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#8 General Comment

no rebuttal..

AUTHOR: macy - (United States of America)

I'm a member of cbc. I'm really sorry about this negative expeience..we've all had negative experiences at church and i can imagine how you feel from your account of the situation. However, bad mouthing the entire church online for all to see isn't the way to go. Like others have pointed out, there are biblical ways to deal with grievances and this isn't it. This just ruins your witness and is a bad reflection on Christianity. It makes us look terrible..what's your purpose as a believer? Think of the permanent affect you could be having spiritually on everyone who reads this. What's more important.. this personal matter or your purpose as a believer? And I Willl pray for you and the church as a whole because I really want there to be peace for you in this matter..hopefully there already is:)
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#9 Consumer Comment

Dude, Seriously?

AUTHOR: ElocinK - (United States of America)

This church has THOUSANDS of members. None of them are speaking to you now? Odd...
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#10

Where are all the so called "christians" from CBC at?

AUTHOR: Richard - (U.S.A.)

I am still waiting for a response from either RR, or somebody from the actual singles group from CBC.  Sarah Jane,  Jimmy the red faced russian,  and anybody else from the group.

Well, I guess it's like i said, "anybody can come on this website and say anything about anybody without any proof what so ever!!! 

And by the way, why is it that the church people bring their personal problems to the church when they have absolutely nothing to do with the church in the first place! 

No response from these people just proves that they are a bunch of "LIARS", especially this individual named "RR".  And they are a bunch of a******s anyway, just for coming on here and starting this crap! 

And if you do come on this website and comment, leave your real name, not just initials like these chicken s***s on here do.  Like i said, if you have proof, come on here and comment and use your real name, if not then you are just a low life chicken s**t like i thought.

When i first put this story on here, i could have easily used a fake name, but didn't!  Why?  Because i have nothing to hide.

BRING IT ON CBC A******S

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#11

RR That's what i thought, ALL mouth!!!!!!!

AUTHOR: Richard - (U.S.A.)

To the individual named   "RR" !

For those of you who are reading this story about what happened to me at this church, this guy that calls himself "RR",  I figured out who it is.  He is the one that was stalking the women in the church group (why would i stalk someone that is not even good looking or does not have a good personality?  That should cover all of the women in the church's singles group!!!  lmao !   It is easy for someone to come on this website to slam somebody without any proof whatsoever, and not even leave a first name!  I have seen him constantly asking women out and them turning him down.  This person is not only a "nut job"  but he is also a "PERVERT" !  I found out just the other day by talking to someone that goes to the church, that this guy "RR" is crazy, and has some serious issues!  This "singles group" is nicknamed  "THE MEAT MARKET"!  Because everybody that goes there is trying to hook up with each other! 

And for this wierdo, psycho, pervert, to say i am going to be someone's b***h in prison has some really serious issues and should not even be on the streets!!!  They kick out the good people, and keep the perverts!  What does that tell you about this singles group?????????? 

Before all of you people were quick to come on this website and put me down, redicule me, and make fun of me, and you do not even know me, so what this means is you people are not "CHRISTIANS" either!  You people don't even have a clue on what a christian is!  So unless you have something descent to say to me, don't say anything at all!  The person responsible for all of this is named:  Sarah Jane, it all started with her, and she is one of the people that is on the stage and sings!  She thinks she is holier than thou, she talks down to people because she used to be a teacher, even though she has a nice house over off of thousand oaks where she has her singles meetings every tuesday starting at 5:00.  Then you have those women in there that don't even work or never had a job because they married someone with money already, would brag about all of the travelling they do and bring pictures to the singles group and showing them off.  It must be nice to spend other peoples money!!!  I would like to meet with all of these people and hear them say these things to my face, and also i would like to see some proof of what i have been accused of.  But before you all do this, make sure you all get together and come up with the same story. As if i did not know you would do that!!!   And as for Jimmy, the red faced russian, you are not as popular as you think you are.  All you do is mow the grass for Sarah Jane, and what do you get for that?     Hmmmmm........!  Nothing but a bunch of hippocrits and lowlifes living in their own little worlds in the church, but when they step out of the church, they are not anybody important at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Somebody respond from the church group!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   "ONLY"

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#12 Author of original report

To the last rebuttal named: RR

AUTHOR: Richard - (U.S.A.)

This message is to the last rebuttal on this page by: "RR". That is a good one saying that i was stalking women in the singles group. First of all, how was i supposed to do that, when the only time i saw them was at church. I would like to see some proof, or hear from someone in the group that actually said that i was stalking them. If not, then go away and harass someone else!

And as far as being accused of slashing "Lori's" tires, this is the first i am hearing of this. And i would like to see some proof that i was the person who slashed her tires! You know, anybody can come on this site and write anything about anybody, like all these idiots on here commenting about me and they don't even know me, "OOPS" there goes another so called "CHRISTIAN" like you are doing to me, and again i would like to see some proof. Do they have pictures of me doing that, Do they have me on video, Do they have any witnesses, of course they don't because i did not do that! And before you go around slandering people and trying to ruin their good name, you need to get your facts straight. You see this frail little girl and right away you take her word for whatever she has told you about me! But remember, I am the one who dated her and i saw a side of her none of you will ever see. By the way she has a temper, and she cusses too. Only around me of course. Oh, do you know about the time i went to her apartment to pick her up, when she opened the door she started screaming at me, and then she slapped me. There is a police report, and the police officer that was working security the day it happened, took pictures of my face with red marks where she kept on slapping me. She had a friend of hers on the phone when she was doing that, and i know she heard what was going on, i don't remember her name, but she was the one that would come to the singles meetings at Sarah Janes house on tuesdays, that was a member of that church where Pastor John Hagee preaches. Also i used to work with this old woman. So you see, there is another side to lori that you do not know. Also she likes to pocket little things when we would go shopping, this i seen for myself because i was with her when she done it, since she did not have a job how was she paying for the new stuff i saw in her apartment everytime i went to pick her up. Everytime we went out she wanted to eat at all the fancy and expensive restaurants, and i was always broke because of that. And i found out that when i met her she did not have a job, and could not get one, because she was a nanny for a lady that had two little girls, and these two little girls told their mother that lori was doing things to them, and the children got scared, and the mother told lori not to come back. Lori kept calling and harassing this woman for the whole time we were together. And the lady never responded, I am guessing because of the way lori is. So you see, Lori is the one with the problem, and you being a friend or acquaintance of hers only tells me that you are alot like her.......the proof is in the pudding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So the next time you write something about me, make sure you have proof, and not the word of a person that does things like that.

That last line you wrote about being somebody's B***h you just proved my point!!! There goes another so called "CHRISTIAN" again.

Next time you want to comment on here, why don't you leave your real name like i do, instead of initials, which are more than likely fake anyway. Why don't you just meet me somewhere in public, and we can discuss this like real men do, if you are a man and not a woman .with just your initials it is kind of hard to tell.
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#13 Consumer Comment

rebuttal to Richard

AUTHOR: Karlos - (U.S.A.)

I know the person Richard is trying to attack here. Richard was thrown out of the singles group because he began developing a nasty habit of stalking women in the group.

He is a liar and a coward to repeatly spread these lies about Lori. He also went as far as to slash her tires. This guy is a nut-job, which is WHY he was rejected and WHY he was kicked out of the Church groupS....groups, not group.

Richard....keep this up, and you'll end up as someones B**** in prison.

Thanks RR.
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#14 Consumer Comment

Read the book of REVELATION in your bible, Don't be discouraged by corrupt churches

AUTHOR: Anonymous - (U.S.A.)

REVELATION does specify what is going on now in our time.

OK, NEVER let a "Bad church" kill your faith with our LORD and Savior, Jesus. We are at a time where corruption is rampant everywhere, including the places that are supposed to be a sanctuary where faith is worshiped and GOD's will is propagated.

There are wonderful churches hopefully in your area, which are not influenced by the corrupt doctrines of Religion and the world, nor paid off by the corrupt government. :(
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#15 Consumer Comment

CBC is an incredible Christian fellowship.....however, Christians aren't perfect

AUTHOR: Cawstanley - (U.S.A.)

Richard, I am sorry to hear you have had this experience with CBC. As a former church member (my family has since moved from the area), I had a great experience with the church for the 5 years we lived in San Antonio. Although CBC is a large fellowship, they offer many programs to become "plugged in," one such program being the Singles program.

Richard, you should seek another church fellowship in San Antonio---there are many, many other great ones. Please don't classify the ENTIRE church by only a few people's situations. How can you accuse the ENTIRE church of not having a relationship with Christ? After all, Christians aren't perfect. Think of the church as a hospital--it is where people go for healing, and we all need healing.

Richard, your story is not the WHOLE story. There are other sides to the story, and I wish I could hear what others had to say. You made the situation sound as though it was not your fault whatsoever--like you were blameless. Richard, I am not accusing you solely of the issue, but you played a role in it. Have you looked at your situation from the perspective of others? In what ways did you react to others?

You apparently are very hurt. You need healing in your life just as we all do. Do you have a personal relationship with Christ? If you do, your life will be changed, but it won't make you perfect and always in a great mood, doing good all of the time for everyone. Although I have a personal relationship with Christ, I often fall down, and I have to dust myself off, and get back up.

Don't let your experience with CBC tarnish your relationship with Christ. Don't take out your frustrations with people on God. People act on their own will, which is our fallen, sinful nature. Find some new friends in another fellowship. This is also important: evaluate yourself. What can you do to eliminate conflict with others in your life? I wish you the best, Richard, and I am praying for you.
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#16 Consumer Comment

CBC is an incredible Christian fellowship.....however, Christians aren't perfect

AUTHOR: Cawstanley - (U.S.A.)

Richard, I am sorry to hear you have had this experience with CBC. As a former church member (my family has since moved from the area), I had a great experience with the church for the 5 years we lived in San Antonio. Although CBC is a large fellowship, they offer many programs to become "plugged in," one such program being the Singles program.

Richard, you should seek another church fellowship in San Antonio---there are many, many other great ones. Please don't classify the ENTIRE church by only a few people's situations. How can you accuse the ENTIRE church of not having a relationship with Christ? After all, Christians aren't perfect. Think of the church as a hospital--it is where people go for healing, and we all need healing.

Richard, your story is not the WHOLE story. There are other sides to the story, and I wish I could hear what others had to say. You made the situation sound as though it was not your fault whatsoever--like you were blameless. Richard, I am not accusing you solely of the issue, but you played a role in it. Have you looked at your situation from the perspective of others? In what ways did you react to others?

You apparently are very hurt. You need healing in your life just as we all do. Do you have a personal relationship with Christ? If you do, your life will be changed, but it won't make you perfect and always in a great mood, doing good all of the time for everyone. Although I have a personal relationship with Christ, I often fall down, and I have to dust myself off, and get back up.

Don't let your experience with CBC tarnish your relationship with Christ. Don't take out your frustrations with people on God. People act on their own will, which is our fallen, sinful nature. Find some new friends in another fellowship. This is also important: evaluate yourself. What can you do to eliminate conflict with others in your life? I wish you the best, Richard, and I am praying for you.
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#17 Consumer Comment

CBC is an incredible Christian fellowship.....however, Christians aren't perfect

AUTHOR: Cawstanley - (U.S.A.)

Richard, I am sorry to hear you have had this experience with CBC. As a former church member (my family has since moved from the area), I had a great experience with the church for the 5 years we lived in San Antonio. Although CBC is a large fellowship, they offer many programs to become "plugged in," one such program being the Singles program.

Richard, you should seek another church fellowship in San Antonio---there are many, many other great ones. Please don't classify the ENTIRE church by only a few people's situations. How can you accuse the ENTIRE church of not having a relationship with Christ? After all, Christians aren't perfect. Think of the church as a hospital--it is where people go for healing, and we all need healing.

Richard, your story is not the WHOLE story. There are other sides to the story, and I wish I could hear what others had to say. You made the situation sound as though it was not your fault whatsoever--like you were blameless. Richard, I am not accusing you solely of the issue, but you played a role in it. Have you looked at your situation from the perspective of others? In what ways did you react to others?

You apparently are very hurt. You need healing in your life just as we all do. Do you have a personal relationship with Christ? If you do, your life will be changed, but it won't make you perfect and always in a great mood, doing good all of the time for everyone. Although I have a personal relationship with Christ, I often fall down, and I have to dust myself off, and get back up.

Don't let your experience with CBC tarnish your relationship with Christ. Don't take out your frustrations with people on God. People act on their own will, which is our fallen, sinful nature. Find some new friends in another fellowship. This is also important: evaluate yourself. What can you do to eliminate conflict with others in your life? I wish you the best, Richard, and I am praying for you.
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#18 Consumer Comment

Community Bible church is a Great Place!

AUTHOR: Elizabeth - (U.S.A.)

It is unfortunate that this former member of the church felt he was dealt with unfairly. Rather than post his complaint, he should have resolved the issue with the girl and her friend who complained about him, and if they couldn't work it out, then all three should have discussed it with the appropriate church staff. If he felt he was treated unfairly by the staff member, he should ask to speak with other staff members to present his point of view and emphasize there were two sides to the story. Church staff ordinarily won't ask someone to leave a group unless there is a compelling reason to do so, and that reason has a lot of support. An accusation made by someone normally isn't enough to create this type of negative response by a church counselor.
He did not specify what the girl complained about. There are standards of behavior that members are expected to conform to, and if they do not comply with the rules, then they are asked to leave. For example, if a person attends a singles group and dates another member, and this person is separated but not divorced, they would be asked to leave the group because it is for singles & they are still married.
Community Bible Church is a great place, and I encourage this person to go back and tell the staff he felt he was not treated fairly, and ask why the decision was made to ask him to leave, ask them to listen to his side, and to reconsider their viewpoint. He needs to advocate for himself again. Complaining on the internet won't change the outcome, but he can choose to go back to the church and try to see if things will change.
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#19 Consumer Comment

I'm Not Impressed

AUTHOR: Jim - (U.S.A.)

Richard, you're best course of action is to find another church. Either they are not Christians, or you are not, and the more you post here, the less you sound like a Christan. The fact you don't like it when people quote you scripture is evidence against you. The church followed the precepts of the Bible (specifically the passage in Matthew 18 already referred to) based on elements in your own story. You admitted you did nothing wrong, and the issue was elevated. Paul speaks in his first letter to the Corinth church about expeling the immoral brother - while I have no information that you did anything immoral, it sure seems like the congregation is treating you as if you had. So if you're questioning whether the church treated you in a christian manner - the answer is we don't know because we only hear your side of the story. On the other hand....the actions of the church would seem to suggest they probably have acted appropriately based on the content of what was said.

If the reason you went to the church was for the single's club, that alone makes me question your motivation. If you're in church to worship the LORD, that's fine. If you're in this for ANY other reason than that - your should be examining your own motivations because te members of the church mist have. Single's clubs are no reason to belong to any church - period. Doing well in a single's club (as you put it) is no measure of anyone's Christian attitude.

Find another way to meet people. You need to be prayed for - whether you like it or not. This is not a rip-off.
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#20 Consumer Comment

you think that is bad?

AUTHOR: Maggie - (U.S.A.)

Richard, CB Church decided to fund a non-profit program on the westside. next thing you know staff are laid off and church members (who for god's sake are filthy rich and never knew a poor person) are hired. they have preferential treatment from the get-go. meanwhile one of us can't get unemployment from the layoff because she worked at a church prior to that and guess what again? the church doesn't pay unemployment taxes so who gets screwed by the Christians? stay away from the churches everyone! as my mom used to say, if it feels like it is wrong it probably is so don't do it. if we all just lived by that we would be in great shape spiritually.
I should have seen the handwriting on the wall....most of the staff members had been or were members of Cornerstone but how does one know this when you are interviewed? also, please beware that churches do not have to pay unemployment taxes!!!
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#21 Author of original report

this is what i get..............

AUTHOR: Richard - (U.S.A.)

I type one thing about a church and christians treating me like crap, and i get a bunch wannabees out there that start quoting the bible. You are a typical ::christian:: you go to church and the minute you leave the church you turn in to your same old a.....e self. that is typical of christians. when in church they talk nice, but the minute they get in the parking to leave, they start cussing at you, and give you the finger. and you are a prime example of that!!! And by the way, why don't you get off of your *&*& and get a life, other than spending time on here and rediculing others.
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#22 Consumer Suggestion

Does the bible church have a bible?

AUTHOR: Jacob - (U.S.A.)

You said, "THE CHURCH SHOULD HAVE TALKED TO ME FIRST, TO FIND OUT WHAT WAS GOING ON."

If you could, please don't use all caps. It is hard to read. Try capitalizing the first letter of each sentence and leaving the rest small.

I think you may be right. Consider John 7:51, Nicodemus asked "Does our law condemn anyone without first hearing him to find out what he is doing?"

Nick also shows up in John 3 and in John 19. I suspect the principle he cited goes back to the earlier parts of the bible which the Nickman was no doubt familiar.

See also Matthew 13:52, talking about how a teacher of the law may bring out of his storeroom old treasures.

However, examine yourself first, see Matthew 7:5.

You seem to be very concerned with whether someone is/was/will be a member.

How is it that nonmembers should not be allowed to say whatever they want? How is it that a member should/should be allowed to say whatever they want? Why would membership matter?

Anyway examine yourself in this an all other things. For example, do you make it hard for your readers to read by using all capital letters? :)



What are Christians supposed to be like?

This is purely my opinion. I suppose this might do for now, but please get off your a*s and read the bible for yourself as soon as possible.

You can probably find a lot of stuff at
http://www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=112

Notice that I have not provided any citations to the bible here. I am just sure someone is going to flyspeck this here. I look forward to being corrected. I suppose I am seeking to be corrected. If I am correct in all these things I do not want you to get lazy and not consult the bible about these. If I am wrong it is my hope that you would correct me and I would recognize the truth.

Be aware that there is the 1) bible; and there are 2) writings about the bible. Obviously the bible itself is the only souce and the writings about the bible.

Do not follow anything less that the bible and your own conscience. If someone points out something to you, take advantage of it, not from them, but from the bible itself.


God's Law
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God's Law is the 10 commandments and many other things found in the bible. John 7:51 would be an example of something not in the 10 commandments.*

Going against your own conscience is also against God's Law. The test here is not whether your conscience is consistent with God's Law, rather whether you are following it.

sin
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A sin is anything that misses the mark of God's Law.

forgiveness
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Jesus died on the cross and rose again for the forgiveness of his sins.

A Christian seeks forgiveness from any person he sins against. He also seeks forgiveness from God when he sins against another person. A Christian seeks to forgive any person who sins against him. He also seeks forgiveness from God for the person who sins against him.

Now do not be misled by the language above. It is only with God's help that 1) he is able to forgive ; 2) other people are able to forgive him; and 3) God will forgive him. In addition it is only with God's help that he believes that Jesus died on the cross and rose again for the forgiveness of his sins. In other words the forgiveness of sins cannot be earned by him.

law again
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A Christian seeks to follow the Law because he should do so.

abuse of forgiveness
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He does not proceed to break the Law anticipating that he will be forgiven for doing so.

A Christian does not demand forgiveness.

works
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There are many versus in the bible speaking of sneaking around and not letting anyone know that you are doing good works.

I think the main point is that there is no boasting, no claim that he is the source of the good works, that good works must be attributed to God because God is the source of them.

I think that the teaching is that you do not go out of your way to make known the good works that you do. You also do not go out of your way to hide them. In fact hiding them is deceitful. Attribution/the credit for good works should always be only to God.

Trying to understand the roles of faith and works. As a practical matter you should do both, but if only one is possible go with faith.

love thy neighbor/you are your brother's keeper
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A Christian teaches others to do all the above.

other
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*It is the stereotype that the law is only found in the old testiment of the, but John 7:51 is clearly law and is in the new testiment, and many of the things Jesus says in the new testiment are also clearly law.

*The law can looked upon as a gift from God, however let us save this point for later.

*Nicodemus was very aware of the law.
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#23 Consumer Comment

"I HEAR YOU"

AUTHOR: Richard - (U.S.A.)

my point exactly! the church does not care who they hurt!!! that is why i have nothing to do with the church!!!!!! i am leaning toward scientology.......
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#24 Consumer Suggestion

stop the bull horm

AUTHOR: Chad - (U.S.A.)

call Ed Reyes my council member

163 S. Ave 24,
Room 202
Los Angeles, CA 90031
Phone: (213) 485-0763
Fax: (213) 485-8908

i have been living here nice and queit 4 years till this church puts up 4 blairing bull horns allday everyday allday long starting at 7 am i have asked the Roman Catholic church to cut the noise.i have sent enough letters and made enough phone calls to fill an inch-thick file with no success The church's bells which aren't actual bells but a recorded carillon broadcast through 4 bull horn speakers -- ring hourly from 7 a.m. to 6 p.m. every day having to "hear 10 minutes of droning megaphone chimes, "They shouldn't dictate to the neighborhood when to commemorate 9/11 by ringing their bells for a solid hour at 6 a.m. in the morning the church uses an electric carillon system.

In other words, the church is automatically broadcasting canned music throughout the day. Its ?bell? ringing is not personal and does not mark a human event? indeed, the system would keep broadcasting even if every human being on earth were to perish, at least until the lights went out. broadcasting its recordings every hour? and every 15 minutes In the first place, we feel that hourly broadcasts are excessive in a pluralistic society, particularly when the "bells" are actually just an automatic appliance.

But? every 15 minutes on a Saturday Sunday??! "If This is maybe your only day off, would you really want to hear a loudspeaker blast that is as loud as your alarm clock every 15 minutes starting at 7 AM We feel that hourly ringing is excessive especially if the broadcast is not a simple striking of hours but of some musical selection We also feel that trouble is almost inevitable when bells are replaced by broadcasts of automatic appliances

If Saturday-Sunday is maybe your only day off, would you really want to hear a loudspeaker blast that is as loud as your alarm clock every 15 minutes starting at 7 AM? If you're someone that likes to think, likes to read, likes to create art, likes to get into one's unconscious via some tranquility in the home, then this a major disruption.

this blast of loudspeaker waking you up all the time is annoying, and letting you know what time it is every 15 minutes. Plus you have to hear 10 minutes of droning megaphone chimes. i have been recording and measuring the sound level of the bells for the past two months.

these levels are as high as 98 decibels, a level i think is too dangerous. This is just a terrible, loud, horrendous noise that we have been subjected to for nearly 8 months It causes ear pain, intense ear pain, and I've gone to my doctor and he told me I've got a hearing loss in not just the one ear but in both ears as a result, Church's are exempt from Los Angeles California noise law.

we need your support!

Divine Saviour Church
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#25 Author of original report

Dear Steve In Killeen, Texas

AUTHOR: Richard - (U.S.A.)

I really do appreciate the kind words, but it seems that every where i go and no matter what i do, i always run into people that say they are christians, and they are the first ones to put me down. I gave church an honest chance.,but when they would not even let me talk to the pastor,(he is one of those that is trying to be like pastor john hagee here in san antonio, texas, i am sure you have heard of him) like i said in my original story, i was not given a chance to defend myself, i was immediately kicked out of the singles club, in which by the way, they asked me to join!

This church allowed to women that did not even go to my church, one i used to date, and did not like it when i broke it off with her(i think you know where i am goin g with this) maybe she was upset that a man would actually stop dating her, i was spending almost every thing i made to make this woman happy, this woman i dated and the other woman i worked with, are members of cornerstone church here in san anonio, texas. After a while i went back to cbc, and nobody would talk to me, nobody would sit anywhere near me.

So everytime i hear somebody say that they are christians, i tell them exactly what i think. Like the pastor said one day at the church i used to go to(cbc) when everybody comes to church, they are on their best behavior, the minute they get in their car to leave the parking lot, fingers and fists fly, and of course a few chosen words. Even the pastor recognizes that this is going on. From everything i have seen, my definition of a christian, is a hippocrit plain and simple.
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#26 Consumer Comment

Dear Richard

AUTHOR: Steve - (U.S.A.)

Hey Richard,
The people you mentioned in that church apparently didn't go about this matter the scriptural way. Here's Matt.18:15-17 - "Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell HIM his fault BETWEEN THEE AND HIM ALONE:if he shall hear thee,thou hast gained thy brother.But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established. And if he neglect to hear THEM, TELL IT UNTO TO THE CHURCH, BUT IF HE NEGLECT TO HEAR THE CHURCH, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican." (emphasis mine)

So you see the progression - you go to the alleged offender FIRST, if the issue resolved, then its resolved. If he (or she) won't hear you, then you bring one or two more, if he or she hear them, then you bring it to the church, if he won't hear the church, then you consider the person a heathen. I know that the way they did you was wrong, but it doesn't necessarily mean they are not Christians. Yes Christians can be "messy". I once heard a preacher say that what some one told him as a new Christian, " you're going to find that the ones who are going to hurt you the worst is other Christians."

In a situation like that I would have brought it up to the pastor, but if they already condemned you then that's your red flag warning. Pray and ask the Lord to lead you to a good Bible-believing,( not "using")church and when I say "Bible", I where the pastor believes that the inerrant, pure, perfect word of God exists hear on earth, and you can hold it in your hands and read it. God Bless
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#27 Consumer Comment

DEAR DONTBE IN HOUSTON TEXAS....

AUTHOR: Mike - (U.S.A.)

THANK YOU FOR THAT KIND AND INTELLIGENT RESPONSE. NOT LIKE THOSE OTHERS THAT ALL THEY HAVE TIME TO DO IS CRITICISE. TOO BAD THERE ARE NOT MORE PEOPLE LIKE YOU. I WON'T EVEN RESPOND TO PEOPLE LIKE THAT, AS A MATTER OF FACT ALL I HAVE TO DO IS CONTACT: EDITOR@RIPOFFREPORT.COM AND REPORT THEM FOR WHAT THEY ARE SAYING AND DOING! AND THEY WILL ERASE THEIR RESPONSES, AND MAKE IT SO THEY CAN'T COMMENT AGAIN. BUT I DO THANK YOU FOR THE KIND WORDS........
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#28 Consumer Comment

Christians are People too

AUTHOR: Dontbe - (U.S.A.)

Christians (if that is what these people in your story can truly be called) are people too. They make mistakes, and it is a big mistake to think just because they believe in God that they are not going to act really, really, stupid in part or in whole as a congregation. They lean upon their own understanding and their own interpretation of the Bible and have failed miserably because they forgot about God in their assembly, and forgot about seeking him for understanding.

Its really bad, for believers such as myself to see things like your situation happen. And to see people like those "so called christians" who demonstrate during funerals for soldiers. That makes me want to vomit to hear them call themselves christians, and act that way. Sick!!
Some of these people have their heads screwed on so backwards, they do not have the Spirit of God working through them and therefore cannot obtain a real, applicable understanding of their own religious doctrine and what it teaches. It doesnt matter what church you go to, you will find only people, only sinners, who like you are there for spiritual needs. Just dont let a bad experience like that get you down. True christians most certainly would have talked to you "if" there was a real problem, and tried to work thru whatever was necessary with you, but most wouldnt have been involved, and if they really saw a problem would have sought to get you to come to church more often, than turn you away like that. Thats terrible, and so against biblical teachings, yet I am not surprised. HUGE churches with thousands of people, preaching "love", and "peace" instead of "God" and "Christ". Beware the deception at every step. Benny Hinn cannot heal himself..
Unfortunately, as churches become more like football stadiums filled with people, and you have scumbags like preachers telling you to put your hands on the t.v. screen for his "healing".
And everyone who easily considers "that" christian, sees a very evident fault there, and is spiritually ruined by that. Trust me, the deception some of these organizations spew is leading millions to their spiritual deaths. On a small scale, like your "he said--she said" bullshit soap opera, you can easily tell that this is not the church for you! Just for the sake of real believers out there, dont let yourself believe we are all the same. Some of us out here do not take a backseat to snake charmers and people who use Gods name to deceive. What you need is to find a baptist church, and get fired up again. You will know when you are close to Him.
Here in the south, we're not afraid of our christianity, or to stand up for our beliefs, we are not all soft spoken half-stepping wussies either, as so many would have you believe. We sit silently in consideration, and will rise to the occasion when we are called to fight the good fight.
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#29 Consumer Comment

God has a plan...

AUTHOR: R - (U.S.A.)

Dear Richard:

In the end, church congregations are social organizations and they can treat you however they feel. This includes deciding not to fellowship with you for whatever reason floats their boat.

If you seek God in prayer, He will tell you what church He wants you to worship in.

In this case, I think He has sent you message loud and clear. This is not the church He wants you in.

There are plenty of churches in your area. Shake the dust off your sandles at this one and find the one He wants you in.
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#30 Consumer Comment

I pray that you get a life!!

AUTHOR: Raymond - (U.S.A.)

I pray that you get a life and quit complaining about every aspect of your life on this sight. Give other people with real problems a chance to post their real problems. You have complaints about your work, social, religious and shopping complaints on this sight. Do you do anything in life other than offending others and complaining about how you were treated. Turn the other cheek and have a more positive outlook when you approach a situation and maybe you can get through it without feeling mistreated.

STOP THE BOO-HOOing, grow up and be a man!!!
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