• Report: #832634

Complaint Review: Care For The Children

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  • Submitted: Thu, February 02, 2012
  • Updated: Tue, August 07, 2012

  • Reported By: Sandra — Industry California USA
Care For The Children
13720 Whittier Blvd, Suite 204 Whittier, California United States of America

Care For The Children care4thechildren.org Unsolicited "work" scam Whittier California

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Care for the Children or Care 4 the Children

*Author of original report: Ripoff report is a valid and reputable medium for such disputes

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Excutive Director

*Author of original report: We can resolve this problem right now

*UPDATE Employee: We Are Here To Help

*Author of original report: Default opt-in is still not a legitimate business

*UPDATE Employee: The Real Care For The Children

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   This "organization" claims to have a permit from the City of Los Angeles to paint public areas of your home. They sometimes post a notice (often they do not) stating that they will paint/maintain your property or the area around it and then ask for a donation. According to the notice, they default opt you in to say "Yes" unless you post a message/sign on your property asking them to not do work. In which case 99% of the time they remove of the sign "gets lost". They do this 2-4 times a year, it's incredibly annoying and hostile, their "collectors" come to your door all day and night, several times I had to ask them to leave or I will call the police. They claim that I opted in (since it was their default). One time I was dressing in the back room and one of their collectors/peepers knocked on my back window to get in.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 02/02/2012 12:41 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Care-For-The-Children/Whittier-California-90606/Care-For-The-Children-care4thechildrenorg-Unsolicited-work-scam-Whittier-California-832634. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
3Author 2Consumer 2Employee/Owner
Updates & Rebuttals

#1 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Care for the Children or Care 4 the Children

AUTHOR: My 2 Cents - ()

Well, I received the curb painting flyer on my door. As always, I went to verify the organization and permit. Called about the permit and waiting for confirmation via phone. But I checked the IRS website on line and can only find one legitiment non-profit for Care "For" the Children and not Care "4" the children. There are two (2) separate organizations and a website for each. So, I have no idea who is who. Just two many scams out there. Regarding curb painting - the law states, which is on the LA County website: They must ask your permission before doing the work. So, that is that. I would prefer to donate to a non profit legit organization but I turned the company in to the County as I always do with these curb n**i's. Having said that - my curb needs a fresh coat of paint and I may let them paint it if they still come and I may pay them a couple bucks for their services - depends on how I feel that day. my 2 cents

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#2 Author of original report

Ripoff report is a valid and reputable medium for such disputes

AUTHOR: Sandra - (USA)

Let me clarify condition 1:

Your current notices ask building owners to place a notice next to the building number/curb to opt-out, this is inherently not a legitimate business practice (dishonest). It is such because it requires a large group of unwilling customers to take action to not receive your service and not have to pay you.

What you need to do require that building owners place the notice next to the building number/curb to opt-IN.

Some cities have different requirements, that is true, but remember what happened to the City of Bell. Just because a city sanctions/allows you to have a default opt-in type business, that is still not a legitimate business practice.

If you change your method to default opt-out, then yes, I will no longer consider this a scam.

Condition 2:

Your employees DO ask for money and are to the point of harassment. In many incidents your employees come to collect money 3-4 times a day. I and my residents have asked your employees to please leave or we will call the police. The Industry Sheriffs dept has been called several times via EMS in such incidents when we asked your employees to leave and not come back.

They refused to leave and demanded money, calling my residents "cheap <racist or sexist slur>", a few incidents, your employees have suggested that they are "stronger than [my resident] and will get the money" leading to such EMS/911 contacts.

Further, your employees have often made the excuse "I did not see a note so I painted the building" and asked for money, which is why default opt-in is dishonest. These practices and mannerisms from your employees must stop.

I hope that you understand why default opt-in is dishonest, as you cited, and will change your method and re-educate your employees.
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#3 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Excutive Director

AUTHOR: SoCaliEd - (United States of America)

        In response to item 1 "In your opinion Care For The Children needs to ask each resident first before painting the address numbers on the city curbs." And it is your statement that if Care for The Children will agree to ask first before painting any address numbers on city curbs than you will agree that the service that Care For The Children provides for voluntary donations is not a scam.

         Each city is different on the requirements that are placed as a condition to the license or permit for the address painting in that city. In the cities: Fullerton, Norwalk, Bellflower, Hawthorne, and West Covina (and many more cities) the city requires that each and every address is painted on the city curb as a requirement to receiving the permit for providing the service. The service is required to be provided for free to the residents. As compensation for the community service Care For The Children is allowed to ask for a voluntary donation.

           In the cities: Anaheim, Covina, Chino, Orange, and Carson the city requires that you provide a means for the resident to opt out if they do not wish to have their address painted on the curb. The service is required to be provided for free to the residents. Care For The Children is still allowed to ask for a voluntary donations.

             The key point here is that the service is provided for free and is not a payment in any form. Any employee that states or suggest in any form that this service is a payment is fired on the spot.

 
             There are cities;  Buena Park, Gardena Grove, Burbank, Lawndale, and Glendale that require you to ask first the residents before painting the address numbers on the city curbs.

              Care For The Children does not make the city ordinances or the requirements that each city places as a condition to paint the address numbers on the city curbs. Care For The Children follows all city ordinances and requirements that are placed as a condition to the license or permit issued from the city for the address painting of city curbs.

               
I would be glad to ask any resident first before painting the address number on the city curb if that is the requirement that is placed on the city license or permit.

                 Item 2 " You (care For The Children) also should address the issue of your employees using rough/threatening language, profanities, sexual/racist remarks, and going into back yards peeping through windows."

                   Care For The Children has a set of policies that it requires each every person working for the charity to follow. If the charity was to receive a call from a resident stating that one of our people had commented any of the items that you had stated, that person would be fired. Care For The Children holds to Christian values and works by Kingdom Principles.

                    Now let's look at your statement that Care For The Children is a scam and that you have chosen Ripoff Report.com as the forum to express yourself.

                     The New Oxford American Dictionary states that the word scam means a dishonest scheme; or a faud.
                     Care For The Children is a charity that uses address painting on city curbs as a means to raise funds so that the charity can provide free clothing to less fortunate families.

                      On the charity website www.care4thechildren.org you can read the many 'Thank You' letters that we have received from other charities that we have provided funds and new clothing to help less fortunate families in their community.

                        I fail to see a dishonest scheme or a faud that has been committed to you or to the public.                       
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#4 Author of original report

We can resolve this problem right now

AUTHOR: Sandra - (USA)

I am a business owner too, and I run my own company. I also have my own youth out-reach program in Santa Ana. I am licensed, accredited, bonded, and insured just like you.

I have no doubt that you have "credentials" just as I do, but credentials, licenses, permits alone, do not make you a great business.

The PROBLEM right now is that you have a default opt-in method to your curb painting service. Regardless of if YOU feel it is legit or not, it is still a considered unethical and underhanded (a scam).

I also have my own youth out-reach program in Santa Ana, I try to help and make this world a better place. I am licensed, accredited, bonded, and insured just like you.

But I would NEVER go around providing my services to random people (permit or not) and ask them to pay me or next time tell me ahead of time they do not want it.

We can resolve this problem right now:

If you agree to:

1. Change your practices, namely your building number painting practices to default opt out: meaning that the building owner MUST POST the notice in order to HAVE their structure (curb) painted, then I will consider this resolved and that your practice is not a scam.

2. You also should address the issue of your employees using rough/threatening language, profanities, sexual/racist remarks, and going into back yards peeping through windows. They should also not collect money after dark, only during daylight hours.
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#5 UPDATE Employee

We Are Here To Help

AUTHOR: SoCaliEd - (United States of America)

I listed the permits for purposes to demonstrate that Care For The Children does not, have not and will not participate in illegal and unethical activities. A scam is unethical and in many cases, illegal.

The complainant is confusing the work of our organization with the work of bootleggers.  On a frequent basis, nefarious individuals have taken our notices, copied them, and harassed the residents for donations.  As the local authorities are well aware, such a practice is common in many parts of Los Angeles County, including the City of Industry, La Puente and Hacienda Heights. 

Care For The Children records all legitimate complaints as necessary to provide evidence to the appropriate authorities upon request.  However, all calls about problems with employees are not recorded.  As our policy states on our website, Care For The Children Solicitation Policy requires the immediate removal of any employee who displays high-pressure tactics to obtain a donation or generates a valid complaint from a resident.  We use multiple ways to validate a complaint.  Each solicitor is assigned a specific area and carries 3 items at all times A valid Drivers License, a valid Care For The Children ID Card and a License and/or permit from the area we are servicing.  Under the conditions of the permit, a solicitor must show the resident all those items upon request. 

The Municipal code that governs a large majority of Los Angeles County allows for the notice to be placed upon the residents domicile and it explicitly states that residents are under no obligation to pay for the service.  Los Angeles County owns 99% of curbs and the permit Care For The Children receives allows us to paint those curbs as a public service, no one is opting in or opting out.  Therefore, the complainants assertion that the default OPT-IN is a scam is a matter of ones opinion.

There are appropriate channels to explore when addressing a valid complaint about a business or organization in California.  And when such complaints are made, there is a record made of the matter.  When I review the complainants assertions and allegations, I had assumed that such a method had been explored. This forum is not an appropriate means to voice a complaint seeking a result.  But buy using this Forum Rip-Off report.com, this complainant has sidestepped appropriate channels and now vents in frustration. 

To all those reading this, please know that Care For The Children has helped thousands of Southern California residents through the financial gifts donated to organizations in Los Angeles, Riverside, San Bernardino and Orange Counties. If anyone wants to know more about Care For The Children, call 1-888-227-3801 or go to http://www.care4thechildren.org.  Our record speaks for who we really are we are here to help.
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#6 Author of original report

Default opt-in is still not a legitimate business

AUTHOR: Sandra - (USA)

No matter how many credentials cited...

Had the person who filed the rebutal reviewed any of their own records (if they keep them) they would find that (at least our family) have contacted them twice in the past year regarding such misconduct (vulgar language, intimidation, and peeping/invasion of privacy) from their "employees".

The Industry Sheriffs dept has been contacted twice via 911 regarding rude "employees" refusing the leave. When the police come, they simply ran in both instances and were never caught.

We have asked the "organization" to "re-educate" their "employees" and reject/fire such employees (however what actions they have taken we do not know).

We have many copies of their "curb painting notices" that we receive up to 4 times a year (this is far more than once a year), which we sent to their organization however we have never heard an update regarding that matter.

Any legitimate business would NEVER post notices to "opt out" of a service, such business practices are inherently scams (would you pay for a pizza that was delivered to you without you ever ordering it? and then asked to pay for it? at all hours of the day and night by rude people using obscene and threatening language?)

Please remember that this complaint ONLY pertains to this organization's default opt-in to paint curb number service and the offensive and rude employees who collect money. Not other services that they provide and we have no objection to whatever else this organization does.

All we ask is for them to cease and desist or change their curb painting practices to require that building owners opt-in by placing a notice on the curb instead (instead of the opposite to have to opt-out by placing a notice on the curb).

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#7 UPDATE Employee

The Real Care For The Children

AUTHOR: SoCaliEd - (United States of America)

Care For The Children maintains a close relationship with both the City and County of Los Angeles.  Our City License Number is CP 2012-001 is valid for 1 year, ending on 01/05/2012.  Our County permit number is PCEN 201200420 and is valid for 1 year, ending 02/05/2013.  And our Los Angeles City Police Commission Information Card number is valid for 6 months at a time. Our current card V3613 expires 12/31/2012.  

In reference to the specific allegations raised in this complaint, they are all without merit.  Painting curb addresses in the city and county of Los Angeles is a public service we offer under license and permit.  We offer this service throughout the year, servicing one area at a time.  Generally, we revisit an area every 18 24 months, not 2 4 times a year as the complainant alleges.  Each area we provide the service has specific guidelines regarding the notice given to the residents. 

As a public service, there is no obligation on behalf of the resident to remit payment for this service. However, Care For The Children has been authorized to solicit donations from residents pursuant to Los Angeles Municipal Code, Chapter IV, Article 4, Philanthropy, wherein our organization has received the necessary documentation, specifically, Information Card No. V3613.  Our Solicitors have numerous years of experience and are very aware of the rules and regulations regarding solicitation within both the city and county of Los Angeles.

Only in America where freedom is free can a citizen make such false allegations without repercussions. I must conclude that this complaint as a whole is disingenuous; (1) the complainant has failed to disclose the harm suffered as a result of providing this public service.  A dog barking can be annoying, but a resident can file a complaint with the local authorities and have the matter resolved. (2)The complainant did not disclose any means undertaken through which the concerns about our organization were entertained. (3) The complainant, in my opinion, is simply blowing off steam. Based upon the complaints text, there was never an attempt to validate our organization, nor voice a concern with the local licensing or policing authorities, or at a minimum, call the TOLL-FREE Number. Although there are other organizations that provide curb painting services, whose work ethics I cannot address, only Care For The Children is authorized to paint curb addresses and solicit for donations within the City of Los Angeles.

Had the complainant performed any of the above prior to writing this complaint on Rip-Off Report.com, the facts would reveal that since 2005, Care For The Children has helped thousands of Southern California residents through the financial gifts donated to organizations in Los Angeles, Riverside, San Bernardino and Orange Counties. If the complainant or anyone else wants to know more about Care For The Children, call 1-888-227-3801 or go to http://www.care4thechildren.org.
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