Cash Streams 4 Life Mark Williams In Partnership With Jason Ryan Isaksen 2CO ripoff They gave a bad review to Free Stores Club and directed me to their product. I purchased, but never received. Marion, Kentucky

Well just purchase the $20 program and found it very interesting though I already know majority of the info given. Well we shall see if the program really really works....

In response to the comments made, I have purchased the e-book for $19.95 and did receive the address to view it. Jason does give you the right to sell any of his products as your own, and he does ask later to buy his program. If your in need of a way out of debt this sounds like a good way to do it.

I am still a little skeptical about the whole thing, but am willing to do almost anything to make sure my family will be safe and have no doubt about if they will have a roof over they're heads in the future.

I just ordered the deluxe package of Jason's system a couple of days ago, when I get it and try it out I will report again on how well it works.

I look forward to hearing and sharing information with you in the future, so until then so long and stay well.

Yes, I eventually did get my refund -
but I will continue to maintain that
it was not as speedily -
as Mr. Williams claims that it was.
On the same date that I was able to
verify that proper adjustments were
made to my credit card account,
which was March 12, 2005,
I added a couple of bucks to my
refund money and purchased the
Rip-off Revenge Guidebook.
Here's my overall point:
I believe that in most cases,
it's not so much about the money,
as it is about the principle.
When any business makes a customer feel
as though they've been ripped-off,
although the money is indeed an issue --
the failure of the business to respond
to the customer's complaint in a timely manner
- in accord with ethical business practices -
that's what I feel triggers a person's anger.
If it were it not for websites like
badbusinessbureau.com and ripoffreport.com,
where people who can go to for help,
people who feel like they've been victimized
and made a complete fool of by someone
who seems to have stolen their money,
I'd venutre to say that there would be
a lot less refunds issued to people
who bought online products that were never delivered.

When any business starts acquiring a list of unsatisfied customers,
all of the advertising in the world won't help that business one iota -
once the word gets around that this business
has a pattern of making empty promises.
And, if these same unsatisfied customers had no
one
that they could afford to turn to for help,
then their complaints would remain unheard,
and legitimate businesses would suffer because
people would be unwilling to trust them.
Just like other people who have had a bad experience
with an online business, I have other things to do today,
besides spending my time writing about my past dealings
with a company. But here's why I'm doing it: I feel that
a website like Rip-Off dot com is really a site where people
can turn to for EFFECTIVE assistance,
and, since I'm not in a position
to support their cause in a financial way,
the least that I can do is to spend a few moments
of my day by offering my sincere thanks
to them for helping me resolve the problem
that I encountered with Mr. William's company
in a very timely manner. In fact, I'd say that
Rip-Off dot com responded to my request
for assistance almost INSTANTLY!
Perhaps Mr. Williams could learn the proper
way to respond to a customer's problems by using
Rip-Off.com as a model to be imitated?
Then again, perhaps I'm being somewhat naive in my thinking.

Here is more proof if the other was not enough!

2checkout.com
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Refunds in Payment
Sale Date Refunded Amount Refunded USD Total Amount USD
1826161400 08-Mar-2005 $ 19.95 $ 19.95

Total: $ 19.95





As you can see the refund was made on 3/8/05 just as I said in my email to him!!

Below is a copy of the sales page from my account with 2checkout. As you can plainly see a refund was given on 3/9/05.

I emailed him telling him of the refund. 2checkout credited his card and I am sure that he had not had time to check it before he accused me a ripping him off again. The form below show a $19.95 deduction from the sale. Anothe attached form shows the transaction clearing on 3/9/05.

Sale #1826161400 Details Sale Total: $ 19.95 US Dollars

Transactions Related To This Sale

Refund this sale ( $ 19.95 USD )

Stop All Recurring



Search for another Sale
#



JOHN M FUNG 1826161403
johnfung@earthlink.net
6620 Curran Blvd.
New Orleans LA, 70126
United States
(504)246-2378
Payment: credit card
Card Mask: ( MasterCard )
AVS: YY
CVV: NA
IP : 4.230.240.127 ( United States )
Location: New Orleans, LA
Country Info: United States (US)
Area Code: 504


Invoice for cash streams 4 life 268730
Status: Y Closed: N
www.cashstreams4life.com


Order Date: 05-Mar-2005
Status: deposited
Date Paid: 16-Mar-05
Date Shipped: Not Yet Shipped

Transactions Related To This Invoice Issue Partial Refund On Invoice

Unknown Purchase Parameters

Item ID Item Vendor Pricing US Dollar Price Purchase Price Action

ktm101 Online book called: Millions at the Kitchen Table
$ 19.95 $ 19.95 $ 19.95 Refund $ 19.95 USD
ktm101 Online book called: Millions at the Kitchen Table $ -19.95 $ -19.95 $ -19.95

Total At Checkout $ 19.95 US Dollars $ 19.95 US Dollars $ 19.95 US Dollars Refund this invoice ( $ 19.95 USD )



New Comment for Sale
1826161400
Copy Comments To: Vendor Customer Vendor must respond by: as soon as possible at end of business today at end of business tomorrow at end of business Monday



1999 2004 2Checkout.com. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Statement Contact Support Department
Lineitem:
Date User Amount Currency Card Action Status Descript Internal
2005-03-09 19.95 US Dollars 512068XXXXXXXX69 BR DEPOSIT Approved Approved
2005-03-05 0.00 BR PENDING Approved Approved
2005-03-05 19.95 512068XXXXXXXX69 BD DEPOSIT Approved Approved
2005-03-05 0.00 BD PENDING Approved Approved
2005-03-05 1826161403 19.95 512068XXXXXXXX69 OA APPROVE Approved Approved
2005-03-05 19.95 512068XXXXXXXX69 OA APPROVE Approved Approved

John,
I can basically tell you that your $20 would have bought you his sales pitch. Four chapters of bla,bla,bla, come up with a good idea, bla,bla,bla, market it to a niche group and sell it for top dollar. He even tells you that it only costs him $21 dollars for the entire course that he charges you $197 to $692 for. After reading the four chapters I had to walk away and shake my head in disbelief, did I really just pay someone $20 to read their sales pitch? Good for him for make money selling a sales pitch..I paid to read it.

Let me first say that I will be very surprised if I ever see the $19.95 refund that they are claiming to have sent to me. I did not receive the digital product that I ordered from them, which was supposed to be handled by 2Checkout.com. I had the opportunity of viewing my credit card statement online, and these charges appear on that statement, with no indication of any adjustments:
03/07/05 03/07 2CO.COM 877-294-0273 OH $19.95

I can provide valid evidence that the company that handled the transaction did indeed apply these charges to my credit card for the product that I had ordered , and show where those charges appear on my credit card statement, which I have been able to view online.

It's not possible for me to prove that I wasn't able to download the product because of a failure on the part of the company to provide me access to the download.

As I see it, the company can make the claim that they have sent me a refund my, even as I can make the claim that I didn't receive the product that I paid for. The problem, once again, is that either one of us might be lying. If my credit card statement does not show a proper adjustment that negates the original charges, then I will feel as though the company was lying to me about sending me a refund. I can accept the fact that the company may be wary of my claim that I didn't receive the digital product that I had paid for, especially after offering me another chance to download the product. Nevertheless,I believe that I had every right to demand a refund at that time, since I didn't receive my product in a timely manner, as promised by the claims made by the company. What if you went to a fast-food restaurant on your lunch hour, ordered a meal, paid for it, and then you didn't receive your order within the next 10-15 minutes? How long would you be able to wait for them to deliver your meal to you? Half-an-hour? An hour? Absolutely not. Wouldn't you demand your money back after about 20-30 mnutes? What if, after your complaint was finally heard, they told you, "We're sorry for the inconvience -- here's the meal that you ordered? Would you accept it and move on, feeling as though the problem had been corrected? Or, would you consider the possiblity that the workers in that fast-food restaurant may have given you a meal that was, in the least, somehow tainted and not suitable for consumption? Read between the lines, if you will. Some employees like to get even with people who complain by doing something so disgusting to the food that they serve their customers, that they, the employees, would certainly not eat whatever it is they're serving.

A reputable company will not only apologize, but seek to remedy the problem by not only giving you your money back, but also something free as a gesture of good faith. Not so with a company that is shady. But a shady company, once they've got your money, at the most, they'll do whatever it takes to cover their @sses by making excuses & apologies, but, in the final analysis, you, the customer, are $h1t outta luck!

I've decided that the best course of action for me to take is go ahead and order the Rip-Off Revenge book at this time, and then to contact the Better Business Bureau to determine if they are able to offer me further assistance in this matter, which I feel remains unresolved. It's the principle - not the $19.95 that I spent. I am willing to accept any solution by an arbitrator that is fair and equitable, but there must be some form of tangible evidence that will prove to me that my complaint has indeed been resolved. Just because the company claims to have resolved the problem and sent me a refund is certanly not tangible proof.

This will be my last update on this matter, unless Cash Streams 4 Life, a.k.a. cashstreams4life.com asks me to provide one in the future, indicating that I am satisfied that the matter has been cleared up.

Talk is cheap. Give me a reference number, Mr. Williams. I talked to a xustomer service representative at my credit card company, and he informed me that the matter was still "pending." I asked him what that meant, and he said that Cash Streams 4 Life has a full one-hundred and eighty days to claim the amount that was authorized.

It seems to me that I mustn't be the first person that has requested a refund from them - or am I? A professional business has a routine procedure to handle refunds when a customer uses a credit card, and that procedure would have some type of built in protection for them, such as a valid reference number, so that they can verify in the future that a refund was sent.

I can't tell them how to setup company policy, but I won't be able to close this matter until I receive my next credit card statement in April. If there is no indication that the matter was resolved on the April statement, then perhaps it will appear on the May one. In either case, I'd like people to know that if they don't have the written documentation that proves that a refund was actually made, don't assume that the flowery words and nice apologies are an indication that "a refund is on its way."

As soon as I am able to verify that the problem has actually been corrected by Cash Streams 4 Life, I plan to purchase the Rip-Off Revenge book, because I'd like to take whatever preventative measures that it may offer so that I don't make this same mistake again with any other shady companies that are on the Internet.

OKAY...Maybe some people might define the word "instant" to mean "sometime within the next week or so" but, where I'm from, "instant" means "now". When I couldn't access the "confidential website" after I had received a receipt from 2checkout.com, I tried various means to contact the company to inform them that I had not received the online product that I had purchased. The result: nothing more than automated responses.
Today, I received these two responses, one from Mark Williams, and the other from 2Checkout.com:

John,
I have not herd from you about your problem getting to the e-book. I am sincerely sorry for this problem. I just wanted to send you a line to tell you that since I have not herd from you that I have refunded your $19.95.
Again I apologize for this problem.
Thanks
Mark Williams
Dear John Fung,
I do apologize for any inconvenience that this matter may have caused.
To better assist in this matter, we would ask that you provide us with either your 2Checkout order number or the FIRST six and LAST four of the credit card that was charged. Once we are provided with this information, we wouldbe better able to assist in this matter.
Your patience in regards to this matter is greatly appreciated.
Please feel free to re-open this ticket if you need any additional assistance.
Thank you,
John
2CO Customer Care
Knowledge Base: http://support.2co.com/deskpro/faq.php

MY REPLY:
The number that you are asking for is at the top of this webpage that I am currently reading: 2Checkout.com Order Number: 1826161400. Aren't you able to see it? What kind of company is this anyway? The ticket number is also on this page, in case you need that also, it's: 8142-SFGZ-3070. Does that resolve your problem with this matter, or do you need additional information?

Before people go flying off the handle and accusing people of being scam artists they need to do more research. I received an email from John that he sent on Saturday 3/5/05 saying that he was not able to get access to the e-book he purchased from my site. I checked the links on the site and all seemed to be fine, I even purchase a copy myself to make sure the links were working. I sent an email in return on Sunday 3/6/05 providing him with a link to get his book. The emails sent to him were NOT autoresponses as he says they were hand typed by me!

In a second email he notified me that he wanted his money back. Since the book has a 90 day guarantee I was happy to do so. I referred him to my credit card processor. Not hearing from him after that I assumed that he was refunded his money and all was well. On Tuesday I checked with 2checkout.com to see if he had been refunded his money. Seeing that it had not been done I sent him his refund. Then later in the day I see that he had written this report badmouthing my website.

I have bought products online for years also like John and one of the things that I have learned is that websites do not operate flawlessly. Even the best of the best have technical problems from time to time. Usually, when someone tells me that they will solve the problem I give them a reasonable amount of time to fix it. Not all people are looking to take advantage of people. I have had problems with companies before and it take up to week for me to get refunded. I did not automatically assume they were scam artists. Most of the time they are honest businesses that are attempting their best to provide their customers with the best service they can.

It is unfortunate that this happened and I want to thank John for a lesson learned. I realize that you can not make everyone happy no matter how hard you try.

I received an apology email from Mark Williams, and this was my response:

IN REGARD TO YOUR EMAIL REPLY OF Sunday, March 06, 2005 6:03 PM THAT STATES THE FOLLOWING:

John,

I have checked the link and it appears to be working. However, I understand your frustrations and again I sincerely apologize for the glitch with the link. I will be happy to refund your money if that is what you want. I have had some email problems and was not able to get to your email as soon as I would like. You can go to 2checkout.com and they will refund your money.

I Respectfully Say Thanks for Your Patience and wish you the Best of Luck
Mark Williams

info@cashstreams4life.com
*************************************************
I went to this link, but there is no one there to handle my refund!

This is how the typical con artsit operates: Criticize a reputable company, make a fantastic promise that is not made in good faith, and then steal the money and run. However, con artists get caught, and then they try to "make things right" by offering lame excuses and apologies.
I'd also like to know what gives you the right to write a bad review about Free Stores Club. I am a member, and I have an active website at http://JMFNOLA.freestoreclub.com, and I read your review. Professionals are people who are ethical, and reputable people who write reviews are independent, and are not improperly influenced by money. You are both cunning & clever in the way that you give a negative to another company, and then make a profit at their expense. Your operating methods are unethical, because not only do you bad mouth another company to people who are searching for an independent review on that company, but you hijack them in a subtle way, and steer them to your site so that they can make a purchase on your "Online ebook" which they cannot critique, because they never receive it.

At some point in time, someone who is bigger and angrier than me, will file a lawsuit against you, and you will find yourself -- and your partner -- joining the ranks of the dot coms that once were -- but are no longer there.
I have the resources to check my credit card statement directly, and I will use them to ascertain whether or not your company has issued me a full refund, for an item that I've never received, by reversing the charges on the account. If I determine that your statements are valid, and the problem has been properly addressed and corrected, then I will proceed to the next level, and notify those whom I reported you to that the matter has been resolved.

I received an apology email from Mark Williams, and this was my response:

IN REGARD TO YOUR EMAIL REPLY OF Sunday, March 06, 2005 6:03 PM THAT STATES THE FOLLOWING:

John,

I have checked the link and it appears to be working. However, I understand your frustrations and again I sincerely apologize for the glitch with the link. I will be happy to refund your money if that is what you want. I have had some email problems and was not able to get to your email as soon as I would like. You can go to 2checkout.com and they will refund your money.

I Respectfully Say Thanks for Your Patience and wish you the Best of Luck
Mark Williams

info@cashstreams4life.com
*************************************************
I went to this link, but there is no one there to handle my refund!

This is how the typical con artsit operates: Criticize a reputable company, make a fantastic promise that is not made in good faith, and then steal the money and run. However, con artists get caught, and then they try to "make things right" by offering lame excuses and apologies.
I'd also like to know what gives you the right to write a bad review about Free Stores Club. I am a member, and I have an active website at http://JMFNOLA.freestoreclub.com, and I read your review. Professionals are people who are ethical, and reputable people who write reviews are independent, and are not improperly influenced by money. You are both cunning & clever in the way that you give a negative to another company, and then make a profit at their expense. Your operating methods are unethical, because not only do you bad mouth another company to people who are searching for an independent review on that company, but you hijack them in a subtle way, and steer them to your site so that they can make a purchase on your "Online ebook" which they cannot critique, because they never receive it.

At some point in time, someone who is bigger and angrier than me, will file a lawsuit against you, and you will find yourself -- and your partner -- joining the ranks of the dot coms that once were -- but are no longer there.
I have the resources to check my credit card statement directly, and I will use them to ascertain whether or not your company has issued me a full refund, for an item that I've never received, by reversing the charges on the account. If I determine that your statements are valid, and the problem has been properly addressed and corrected, then I will proceed to the next level, and notify those whom I reported you to that the matter has been resolved.