• Report: #122313

Complaint Review: Champion Mortgage

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  • Submitted: Sat, December 11, 2004
  • Updated: Sun, June 12, 2005

  • Reported By:East Brunswick New Jersey
Champion Mortgage
2 Gatehall Drive Parsippany, New Jersey U.S.A.

Champion Mortgage, Key Bank Champion Mortgage, Key Bank LIED about my closing costs. Parsippany New Jersey

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: IT'S NOT ONLY THE COMPANY

*Consumer Comment: Jason, I have to disagree with you He could've been refinancing to pay off those credit cards!

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: four complaints? YOU DO NOT GET YOUR MONEY BACK FOR AN UNDERAPPRAISAL

*Consumer Comment: Ex Employee is still defending bad business practices

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Something's seems wrong with what you are saying

*Consumer Comment: Similar but Worse! charge outrageous closing costs

*Consumer Comment: Similar but Worse! charge outrageous closing costs

*Consumer Comment: Similar but Worse! charge outrageous closing costs

*Consumer Comment: Similar but Worse! charge outrageous closing costs

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Let's be fair

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I was preparing to do business with this company because their sales people convinced me of how "horrible" it was to do business with "brokers." I was promised reasonable closing costs and a free refinance once my initial mortgage was paid on time for a period of eight-ten months. To make a long story short, I was quoted a monthly payment only. The sales person conveniently left out the closing costs and told me that "underwriting determines fees and points." I was then informed that I had to give my credit card in order to get the loan approved and into the underwriting department. They also said they wouldn't charge me for it, but that they just "needed it."

Foolishly and against my belief I trusted them enough to proceed. After the non-refundable $295.00 was already run from my account I was mailed a package which listed $9500.00 in closing costs! $9500.00?!! Now I may not be a mortgage wiz, but that seemed pretty steep to me. I was then informed that it was because of my "below average" 660 credit score!!!

Needless to say I cancelled the loan on the spot and was humiliated by their sales person, who also refused to refund my $295.00 appraisal fee. I'm out every dime of it and had to pay for a brand new one in order to close a loan with a broker, which ultimately ended up being approximately $6000.00 less in closing fees. I guess I made out in the long run? These people are Crooks and shouldn't be allowed to charge nearly as much as they do

Danny
Jupiter, Florida
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 12/11/2004 01:00 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Champion-Mortgage/Parsippany-New-Jersey-07054/Champion-Mortgage-Key-Bank-Champion-Mortgage-Key-Bank-LIED-about-my-closing-costs-Parsi-122313. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
0Author 10Consumer 0Employee/Owner
Updates & Rebuttals

#1 UPDATE EX-employee responds

IT'S NOT ONLY THE COMPANY

AUTHOR: S - (U.S.A.)

I am an ex-employee who enjoyed both great times as well as great success. This is what I figured out after 2 and 1/2 years with the company.
You are never told not to nor discouraged to lie to a customer to get them "on board" with your proposed "program" (aka loan). You ARE instructed to find the "red flags". But in the end, it is the individual loan officer who must take responsibility for what they say to a potential customer and how they say it.
I know that I never had to, nor did I ever lie to a customer and yet still managed to earn a good living.

To the person who was told about escrows and bi-weekly pamyents, I feel bad for you but it was the loan officer, not the company.

To the person with the 660 credit score, that is a score Fannie Mae will accept all day long and give you an approval for a conventional loan.

I am sorry to see so many people deceived but, in the same breath, I am not suprised since the people us loan officers work for, and are trained by, depend on us for their own income.

One can get anythine one wants to get in writing but beware one and all...it doesn't count until you are sitting at the closing with pen in hand.
To all that read this know one thing...if you have a 620 credit score or above, are not borrowing every last penny of equity you have in your home and have any liquid assets at all that can be verified, Champion is not where you belong no matter what "buttons" they try to push.
One last thing must be said, no company, I repeat NO COMPANY offers a free refi so please don't be tempted or teased.
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#2 Consumer Comment

Jason, I have to disagree with you He could've been refinancing to pay off those credit cards!

AUTHOR: Dave - (U.S.A.)

My scores were in the low 6's and I had NO late pays, NO deliquencies, NO charges offs, no BAD credit of any kind. What my problem was credit cards. I had a few that were near the limit, but they were interest-free cards. When I paid them off (after finding out how badly it affected my scores), VOILA! My credit scores jumped to 800+.

So, don't assume this guy had deliquencies just because of a 660 rating. He could've been refinancing to pay off those credit cards!
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#3 UPDATE EX-employee responds

four complaints? YOU DO NOT GET YOUR MONEY BACK FOR AN UNDERAPPRAISAL

AUTHOR: Brett - (U.S.A.)

I understand you think you got ripped off and maybe you did, but telling people to look at all the complaints on this website isn't the way to go. Champion is a billion dollar company and is a direct lender for Key Bank, one of the largest banks in the world. in case you hadn't looked before, you typed that ridiculous statement when there are only four complaints. FOUR...one of them is a complaint like yours for an underappraisal.

In case people don't know this for future reference YOU DO NOT GET YOUR MONEY BACK FOR AN UNDERAPPRAISAL. I hope you got your loan straightened out. Next time if you are over a 625 fico go with a broker. I worked for Champion and believed the managers when they told me brokers are evil...trust me when I tell you it is the way to go.

I am a broker and I just got a person with a 637 fico a 5 year arm (she only plans on being there for 4 years) at a rate of 5.75%. Her credit was pulled only once (lending tree it gets pulled 4 times). I liked working for Champion and it is a good company, but I don't agree with everything they tell new loan officers. sorry I was all over the board on this one...hope I helped somebody.
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#4 Consumer Comment

Ex Employee is still defending bad business practices

AUTHOR: John - (U.S.A.)

OK, so when does it cost $16,000 to close a loan? Well, apparently when you close with Champion it may, but most lenders would not have the audacity to try and justify this the way the ex-employee does. This is damage control pure and simple. I think this person may still work there even.

Another sales tactic of Champion Mortgage is to dig and find your "Button". Once they find this, they keep pushing it and pushing it until you are scared NOT to close with them.

In some cases, they even argue that a higher rate is better for you because (insert bogus reason).

Truth be told, Champion is a good sales company based on conversion rates, but what they are selling is bad for consumers in most cases. If you don't mind misleading, high pressure sales, Champion says "YES!"

660 Fico scores are maybe below average, but WELL within most lender guidelines and are considered excellent in subprime markets. Champion is not and never will be a prime lender, so they have insulted their customer base by downing that 660 score above.

I'm done. Please use caution in any transaction that involves your home. All these entries against Champion didn't get there by mistake.
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#5 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Something's seems wrong with what you are saying

AUTHOR: Jason - (U.S.A.)

The appraisal field is a subjective field and there is no uniformity in the process. I have owned a house for 3 years. Recently I purchased two separate appraisals because I am looking to sell. They came in over 95k apart. The real value is what someone is willing to pay.

Any mortgage company works up and offers a loan to customers based on the STATED value of a home. Meaning what you tell them the home is worth.

You should be happy that they are not Ameriquest. Ameriquest works with appraisers and intentionally inflates the value of the appraisals. This is predatory lending. I hear people complain all the time about under appraisals and the money they lost. You should thank the mortgage company for being honest and not raising the value of the home just to do a loan. Believe me, as a Loan Officer, I wish I could have done that. I would have made a lot more money.

With regards to closing costs, you say it was 16k. What you neglect to mention is how much you were borrowing, was it a 1st or second mortgage (costs change dramatically), and most importantly, how was your credit. These are the determining factors on costs/points and rates.

You obviously own an expensive piece of property. This matters.
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#6 Consumer Comment

Similar but Worse! charge outrageous closing costs

AUTHOR: Milly - (U.S.A.)

We were charged a $495 appraisal fee for our home and then told it would be $16,000 for closing costs. When the appraisal came back at $540,000, and they would not lend us our needed equity, we ended up selling in 60 days for $650,000...a hundred thousand dollars over the $495 appraisal they used...weak! I would NEVER do business with this company they obviously are using peoples misfortunes as leverage to charge outrageous closing costs...shame on them!
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#7 Consumer Comment

Similar but Worse! charge outrageous closing costs

AUTHOR: Milly - (U.S.A.)

We were charged a $495 appraisal fee for our home and then told it would be $16,000 for closing costs. When the appraisal came back at $540,000, and they would not lend us our needed equity, we ended up selling in 60 days for $650,000...a hundred thousand dollars over the $495 appraisal they used...weak! I would NEVER do business with this company they obviously are using peoples misfortunes as leverage to charge outrageous closing costs...shame on them!
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#8 Consumer Comment

Similar but Worse! charge outrageous closing costs

AUTHOR: Milly - (U.S.A.)

We were charged a $495 appraisal fee for our home and then told it would be $16,000 for closing costs. When the appraisal came back at $540,000, and they would not lend us our needed equity, we ended up selling in 60 days for $650,000...a hundred thousand dollars over the $495 appraisal they used...weak! I would NEVER do business with this company they obviously are using peoples misfortunes as leverage to charge outrageous closing costs...shame on them!
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#9 Consumer Comment

Similar but Worse! charge outrageous closing costs

AUTHOR: Milly - (U.S.A.)

We were charged a $495 appraisal fee for our home and then told it would be $16,000 for closing costs. When the appraisal came back at $540,000, and they would not lend us our needed equity, we ended up selling in 60 days for $650,000...a hundred thousand dollars over the $495 appraisal they used...weak! I would NEVER do business with this company they obviously are using peoples misfortunes as leverage to charge outrageous closing costs...shame on them!
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#10 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Let's be fair

AUTHOR: Jason - (U.S.A.)

First off, brokers ARE bad. Anyone who can quote you a rate in 5 minutes with only your FICO score is not being honest. They are clearly not qualifying you as a consumer properly. They will give you a nice low rate to get you in the door.

By law, brokers do not have to disclose the closing costs to you until you sit down at the table. A direct lender, like Champion, does not have that option. With a broker, you are usually so far in the process, you are simply so frustrated and not willing to walk away even after being surprised by the closing costs.

You state the following: "I was promised reasonable closing costs and a free refinance once my initial mortgage was paid on time for a period of eight-ten months."

With all due respect, Champion has been in business for over 20 years. What bank on earth would offer a "free refinance." No loan officer would say something like that. I truly believe that often some consumers only hear what they want to.

With regards to closing costs, you do not tell us the loan amount so it is impossible to comment on that.

You were told that your 660 credit score was below average. With a 660, you probably had some delinquencies. Take a look at some facts from myfico.com:

"On average, today's consumers are paying their bills on time. Fewer than 4 out of 10 have ever been reported as 30 or more days late on a payment. Only 2 out of 10 have ever been 60 or more days overdue on any credit obligation. 85% of all consumers have never had a loan or account that was 90+ days overdue, and less than 10% have ever had a loan or account closed by the lender due to default."

You must have had late payments or your score would be above average and maybe then you could have taken advantage of the best rates.

Shopping for a mortgage can be frustrating, I know that. But it is important to ask the right questions. With closing costs being a large factor in a loan, it is simply not plausible to believe that they did not tell you the amount. They are a direct lender, and as I stated earlier, they are not a broker. Brokers do not have to tell the fees until the end of the process.
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