• Report: #420385

Complaint Review: Chris White Of Whitesequines

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  • Submitted: Wed, February 04, 2009
  • Updated: Tue, September 14, 2010

  • Reported By:Anonymous New York
Chris White Of Whitesequines
Gowanda Zoar Rd Gowanda, New York U.S.A.

Chris White Of Whitesequines Just one bad horse deal after another Gowanda New York

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Please leave his "girlfriend" out of future reports

*Consumer Comment: Response to the Buyers Role

*Consumer Suggestion: Chris White - White's Equines - the BUYER'S ROLE

*UPDATE Employee: Inside Info About ALL Of The Reports Here On Whites Equines

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Stay clear of this horse trader, its nothing but lies and one bad deal after another. Him and his girlfriend will tell you almost anything you want to hear just to sell you a horse.

I bought my horse from this dealer, and consider myself very lucky that I am happy with it. I personally know four other people off the top of my head that have bought horses that turned out to be not quite what they seemed, and have heard countless stories of others.

Some with lameness issues, some with training issues, all sold to me, you, and our friends without the real story.

Here comes the best part...when it becomes clear to you that your new horse isn't quite what you bargained for you can expect to hear countless excuses for any problem you may have, couldn't possibly be that he just plain sold you a bad horse, and a total refusal to be sure that his customers are satisfied, IE.he ain't taking the horse back and he probably already spent your money.

Good luck to anyone who has already bought a horse here, hope it turns out OK for you, whatever your situation may be. For anyone who yet has not...you may want to think twice.

Here is some advice: Always have the horse vet checked before you write the bank check. And think about employing a breeder, trainer, or other equine professional to assess the horses true training status.

Getting tired of watching this horse dealer take advantage of one unsuspecting customer after another.

Anonymous
Anonymous, New York
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 02/04/2009 10:30 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Chris-White-Of-Whitesequines/Gowanda-New-York/Chris-White-Of-Whitesequines-Just-one-bad-horse-deal-after-another-Gowanda-New-York-420385. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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Updates & Rebuttals

#1 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Please leave his "girlfriend" out of future reports

AUTHOR: Some Truth Please - (USA)

His girlfriend should no longer be associated with his business matters or personal dramas in any way shape or form.  She in fact hasn't been for some time.  She's joined the long long long ranks of "unhappy personal assiciations" left cleaning up her life from having allowed him to enter it.  He actually now has his own FRIENDS posting here on ripoffreports about him.  Ahhh, the character, huh?
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#2 Consumer Comment

Response to the Buyers Role

AUTHOR: Anonymous - (United States of America)

Although it would be great if all persons who decide to purchase a horse were well educated in all aspects of buying and owning a horse, the fact is that they all are not it would probably be safe to say that most are not. Although a buyer would be much better off to educate themselve prior to the purchase, they are under no legal obligation to do so.

That being said, quite the oposite is true for the seller. If you intend to sell horses for a profit you are bound by moral and legal obligations. Meaning you could be held legally responsible for any misrepresentations knowingly or not that you make. The old statement of buyer beware, although good advise is not law. The statement would be better said as "Seller Beware".

In the State of Texas, under the Deceptive trade practices act, if a seller is found to have misrepresented a horse the buyer would recieve damages and attorneys fees. If the seller is found to have knowingly misrepresented the horse then the buyer could be awarded three time the amount of damages.

So in fact if the seller misrepresents the horse in a manner that he/she wasn't aware of they are still responsible. The seller has no legal claim to ignorance of a fact. If you sell a horse that you have been riding and have not noticed any lameness, then in turn sell the horse saying in an ad that it is sound. The buyer vet checks the horse after the purchase and is found to be lame. You could still be held accountable. Even if the buyer signed a contract buying the horse "as is". You expressed an implied warranty that the horse was sound, and therefore the buying may assume that "as is" is sound.

What is important to understand here is that it is impossible for all consumers to be experts in everything we purchase. You are an expert in horses but do hire a nutritionalist to go grocery shopping for you? The seller is responsible for conducting his or her business in a moral honest manner, and to be knowledgable in the product they sell.

 

 

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#3 Consumer Suggestion

Chris White - White's Equines - the BUYER'S ROLE

AUTHOR: anonymous - (United States of America)

It sure sounds like someone had a bad experience - but let me just say that you can get a bad horse or a misrepresented horse from ANYWHERE.  And the more horses you sell, the more chance there is that someone will not get what they want.

Buyers have a responsibility too.  You are not buying a motorcycle or a car or a blender that can come with a warantee.  Buyers of living animals are taking some chances - and you have to do what you can to limit the chances for failure.  If you are experienced at buying and selling horses, chances are, you would make good decisions with Chris White or any other horse dealer.  If you don't know what you are doing, you should find someone who does and enlist their help.  

Vet checks typically cost several hundred dollars - when you are buying a $1000 horse, that is not always a viable option.   Hundreds and hundreds of horses are being sold for $1500 and under in WNY and PA.   The market is poor and these animals are in need.   So it is up to the buyer to make sure he or she is deciding wisely.  I can recommend that you ask for an opportunity to speak to prior owners about the animal - often there is a record of his or her name/address.  Or you can check with the vet on the coggins - that is likely who was treating the horse before.  His or her address is on the document.

I did buy a horse once from Chris White and got exactly what I bargained for and I was not disappointed at all.  I have not had occasion to deal with him again - but I might if he had a horse that interested me.  But after buying and selling enough horses - I don't depend on the seller to tell me what I need to know in an objective way.  If you read any horse ad on craigslist, you will see that these animals do everything perfectly and you would think they clean their own stalls!  And all are to go to "good homes only" - or offer a discount to "a good home" - does that mean bad homes can have them for the full price????

My point is that as horse buyers, we must realize that we are taking an animal with a mind of his own and a spirit.  It is not a piece of equipment.  Horses also are herd animals - change the herd and it can change the horse.   We know as buyers that people want, expect, and attest to an entire array of characteristics in a horse.  A "calm horse" for a barrel racer is much different than a "calm horse" for a trail rider.  But the ad can say "calm horse".    So buyers need to take some responsibility, too.  

Sellers should be honest.  But there are varying perceptions about that.  Just like the "calm horse" - some folks see an "easy keeper" as one you can basically ignore if you pasture him.  Others think an "easy keeper" is a horse that only gets grained twice a day and has less than three supplements.  Only you can say what an easy keeper is to you.

Training is similar topic - I like John Lyons - so I don't care if a horse can play the 7 Parelli games.  I use a mounting block - so I don't care if the horse stands if you get on from the ground - will he stand at the block?   I refuse to use tie downs and martingales and such  so I don't care how well behaved the horse is if he is "gadgeted" - I want him well behaved on a loose rein.

So my solution, in short, is to go back to horsebuying 101 - Ask that the horse be out in the pasture when you arrive.  Watch him caught, lead, groomed, tacked, and ridden.  Then if you like what you see, take your turn.  Ride him like you own him.  Put him through his paces the way you would if he was at your place.   If you don't know how to check teeth, feet, and the like, take someone who does.   Lead him around and play with him.  What you have on your lead rope is what you will have under saddle.  Look at his stall if he has one.  Put him in and watch for a few minutes for cribbing, weaving, etc.  Watch him eat a bit of hay - you will see how he chews.  Then watch him turned back out - see how he goes back to the herd.

If you are willing to work on training, you may want to attempt to teach a simple thing with the horse before leaving.   Something that usually yields quick results.  That will let you get a glimpse of how your training will go.    If you want a fully, well trained horse - you will need to be more selective in this price range.

Horses, like people, have some issues.  Just like some of us are overweight or have high blood pressure or a bum knee - horses will have minor maladies that make them require some level of understanding or special care.  You just have to decide what kinds of things you can deal with.  Then search accordingly.

I saw similar complaints about Butch Bockman of Lockport - now there is a shady character!  At least Chris White is a rider.   Butch adertised all his horses as "anybody can ride" and "kid safe" and then people complained that the horses were dangerous.  No kidding!  My solution to that - tell ol' Butch to put his butt on that horse and put him through its paces before you put your kid on!  - He is a used car salesman for Heaven's Sake!

So before we linch Chris White - let's remember it is easier to blame others instead of ourselves.  It is easy to ignore the "rules" - You should know how to buy a horse and if you don't READ and LEARN and TAKE HELP WITH YOU.   And always, always remember - the horse that is not good for you will be someone else's perfect horse - they are not disposable.  Lots of us find that horses are not a good match for us - but responsible buying and selling is important.  And believe me when I say that private sellers can be just as problematic as dealers. 

GET BACK TO BASICS - there are two parties in any sale and buyers have some responsibilities as well.  We have all suspected that someone is not completely truthful when we are buying a car.  Does that cause us to go nuts on the internet?  No - we just walk away - sooner or later, those who are truly crooks will go out of business for lack of sales.

Merry Christmas and HUG YOUR HORSE. 

 

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#4 UPDATE Employee

Inside Info About ALL Of The Reports Here On Whites Equines

AUTHOR: Whitesequines - (U.S.A.)

I'm sorry to be blunt but there are a few reports here on Whites Equines. One of them is a legitimate customer issue that resulted in an as yet unresolved legal matter. This customer will receive fair resolution in the end which was always our intention, they just didn't like what was fair and rejected it.

The other reports are just garbage, we know who posted them, it's a personal issue resulting in vindictive behavior. Without getting into details it has nothing whatsoever to do with any horse. Hell hath no fury...

Feel free to view this link http://whitesequines.com/past_sales.html for a just a few examples of our actual real customers experience with us and our horses. By nature selling horses is a tricky business because animals are nothing if not predictably unpredictable. We work hard to get the right horse to the right person, and on the rare occasion when our original sale wasn't ideal for whatever reason we replace the horse without upcharging.

Feel free to email with any questions. We stand behind the horses we sell and our ability to help riders find their perfect fit. Have a great day and thanks for thinking and not just blindly believing everything you read!
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