• Report: #22396

Complaint Review: Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

  • Submitted: Mon, June 10, 2002
  • Updated: Sun, July 27, 2008

  • Reported By:Seattle Washington
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
lds.org Central, Virginia U.S.A.

Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, Mormon Church ignores allegations of abuse Central Virginia

*Consumer Comment: There are TWO kinds of LDS and I think you have them mixed up!

*Consumer Comment: To know at the mormon church

*Consumer Comment: Do not go to mormon (LDS) church authorities to report abuse

*Consumer Comment: How about some real facts?

*Consumer Comment: How about some real facts?

*Consumer Comment: behind the zion curtain ..Living in Salt Lake City and being a non-mormon can be a real problem at times.

*Consumer Comment: Mormons Tried to Cover Up Their " Members" Molestation of my Three Children

*Consumer Comment: Do our church a favor...

*Consumer Suggestion: No excuse for abuse or cover ups either

*Consumer Comment: Update on my situation

*Consumer Comment: Life here doesnt always make sense

*Consumer Comment: You are not ready for rebaptism

*Consumer Suggestion: Think about this and find out why this happens in what is supposed to be a Christian Church, but is it really that?

*Consumer Comment: Update on situation

*Consumer Comment: Church not responsible; Separation of Church and State.

*Consumer Suggestion: Here is an odd thing to blame on the Mormon church...

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Mormons preach false doctrine, Bible is infallible Word of God

*0: You don't know the half of it...

*Consumer Suggestion: Call the POLICE!!

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I am an active member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and am writing because of a very disturbing trend, which does not appear to be taken very seriously in the Church. The reason I am writing is because I think this happens a lot more often that we envision and my comments are made in hopes of reaching others in the same boat. I am saddened by the poor image of the Church, as witnessed by many of these horror stories about the Church. My thought is that we will never be able to change other's opinions about us, until we change our attitudes and behaviors.

In the Priesthood session of the April Conference, the First Presidency issued a statement condemning abuse of any kind, yet I have complained to Church leaders, including her Stake President, Wayne Mathis, in June, 2000, about the abusive situation in which my ex-wife, Gretchen, has placed my daughters. She is cohabiting with a married man, Floyd White; a fact, which the Church leaders are well aware. This man has sexually and physically abused his stepdaughter and molested other girls and all indications are my daughters are his current victims. Floyd targets vulnerable women with attractive young daughters. That is his modus operandi and Church leaders know this.

The Church leaders have to know about this problem, yet chose to ignore it. They attend church together and have had outward displays of affection in public since 1997, and Floyd never even filed for divorce. Floyd and my ex-wife paraded into my daughter's graduation in June 2000, arm-in-arm, right past the former Stake President Bruce Slater and his wife.

Additionally, the Church leaders have been active in criminally interfering with my visitation. When I confronted Bishop Mihok about the practice I was threatened with Church Court if I reported them to the authorities. I had also threatened to sue LDS Social Services in Richmond Virginia for insurance fraud and misrepresentation and was warned likewise about taking civil action. LDS Social Services were involved in my marital therapy just before my ex-wife filed for divorce and reported that they accepted CHAMPUS insurance, however, I had to pay all fees up front and they would reimburse me when they were paid. I ended up paying about $900 and was told they failed to get the papers in to qualify them to accept CHAMPUS after they had already told me that had been accomplished

Two Stake Presidents, neither of whom had any ecclesiastical authority over me, involved themselves in my personal matters also. President Brown, who was upset that I had attracted the eye of woman they wanted for their still-married son (just separated two days). This person spoke to my uncle to tell me he thought I was cavorting around with the very woman he was trying to fix his son up with.

Another scoundrel, then Stake President John Thornock (also an attorney) took an interest in me. (I had run into him several years earlier. He accused me of directing murder as part of an intelligence operation. We were both in the Army and he reported this to Congress before checking the facts. It turned out he was wrong and embarrassed. He retired shortly thereafter. I think he had an axe to grind with me from that time forward.)

While at DIA years later, I was involved in a very sensitive assignment abroad. John Thornock, then DIA General Counsel, kept poking his nose around in my operation and was told repeatedly to butt out. Finally, he was questioned about the reason for his insistant involvement, and he told them that he had an ecclesiastical responsibility for me, which was a lie! I was never in his Stake.

Not satisfied, Thornock rifled my drawers at work, which was in a sensitive area, and unlawfully intercepted my private phone conversations. He helped Gretchen launch a two-year espionage investigation at great expense to US taxpayers to destroy my career (I never worked for a foreign power) and then handed my (ex-)wife at least some of the things taken from my desk and reported to her that she should divorce me because he knew that I had a Swiss Bank account and was funneling marital assets there, which was totally false. He even set her up with one of his High Councilors, Jim Tate, as her divorce attorney, with a smokin' deal.

The bottom line is that I have written to the Area President and General Authorities about these problems. I was referred back to the Stake President to resolve the problems. Nothing has been done to help my daughters. I told those Church leaders that since they had abrogated my patriarchal prerogatives, interfered with my visitation and court-ordered counseling sessions with my daughters, they had assumed responsibility for the welfare of my children. They did not take this proclamation seriously, So I wonder about the teeth in the Church's condemnation of abuse.

Taylor, Arizona

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 06/10/2002 01:25 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Church-of-Jesus-Christ-of-Latter-Day-Saints/Central-Virginia/Church-of-Jesus-Christ-of-Latter-Day-Saints-Mormon-Church-ignores-allegations-of-abuse-Ce-22396. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 Consumer Comment

There are TWO kinds of LDS and I think you have them mixed up!

AUTHOR: Helene - (U.S.A.)

You have the Mormons who are in Salt Lake City and they are just a church like any other church. I know a lot of them and I agree with a lot of their teachings but then you have the OTHER BUNCH WHO USES THE NAME

And then you have this bunch of nut-jobs who want to live in the 1800s and marry many wives --underaged girls, it seems, and keep them pregnant all of the time!

THOSE GUYS ARE NUT JOBS. I think they call the Fundamentalist First Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints.

Do yourself a favor and don't get involved with those Fundamentalists in the second group. They are just like the Taliban but they don't have the Q'uran. I don't think they even have the Book of Mormon OR the King James Bible....
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#2 Consumer Comment

To know at the mormon church

AUTHOR: Joshua - (U.S.A.)

I see your reference to Josephlied.com its not a good a reference, they themselfs lie about the subject, there fake, there not real, it should be Brigham_Younglied.com I should know I research the subject.

Joseph Smith and his son Joseph Smith Jr. are two people that people slander many times and shift the blame on.

To start from the begining, anyone deserves the right to be what they are - to be seen for what they are, yet some people lie about them, or coverup for them, or blame things on them, misunderstand them, or not forgive them, there history is distorted.

They say they died from a angry mob, or poisoned them to bring polygamy in to power, because they were against it, and some other things, read it for yourself: Read D&C(doctrine and covenants) 42 then D&C 132 is about expecting Joseph to follow along or die, then read D&C 135 and what happen to him, to know someone, and trust, is to be betrayed.

I can prove this, I read parts of a book written by a BYU professor of history.

The LDS church or Mormons split into aleast 3 groups. That is what happens in a power struggle, you can see it anywhere, look at the war on drug, we know its wrong to sell illegal drug, yet someone will disagree. people die because they disagree. People try many things to encourage something illegal.

Brigham Young did many good or bad things, yet I was not there to see what it is, he was different from Joseph Smith, they disagreed with each other, yet they tried to make them look the same, they married Joseph Smith to several women after he was dead, (its church record, you can find it in church records), they do things different from the other church. They madeup stories about Joseph Smith, yet tried to make them look the same. Then after Brigham died the church tired of the corruption, yet they madeup many reasons for it - because they ended polygamy, that created another split, the refuse to stop, they can be any where, its strange its not allowed, yet think and act on ideas, of that time, still now, yet they don't know that, Brigham Young is not seen for what he is, some one wants to encourage his ideas, they don't want to beleive what happend, yet people understand.

Many times I found there reason for hate toward Joseph Smith or slander him was to prevent people from like or love him, they fear change for the better, they want corruption, yet people liked him, it was to lie to create and promote indifference, to accept strange ideas. They don't what people to respect something better.

They write that Joseph Smith did it, it should be Brigham_Younglied.com they shift the blame to Joseph Smith ,because of the split in churches the LDS church is from Brigham not Joseph Smith yet it is because when you believe in Joseph Smith and better thing it is.
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#3 Consumer Comment

Do not go to mormon (LDS) church authorities to report abuse

AUTHOR: Mike - (U.S.A.)

Time and time again victims and people aware of cases of abuse have gone to trusted mormon leaders to report abuse. And time and time again, these people have been met with road blocks, denial, and sometimes outright coverup of the crime. There are numerous legal victories and cases of this. After years of problem reporting and lost legal battles the church finally issued instructions to clergy for mandatory reporting to police. However, in Utah, the mormon church incredibly fought mandatory reporting laws. Even though mandatory reporting is now part of their instructions, many clergy on a personal level choose to ignore those instructions for various reasons some of which include: Protecting friendships, fear of tearing families apart, and a lack of understanding of the devastating effects of child sexual abuse.

Sexual abuse of children in the mormon church is a very prevelant problem, the state of Utah has a high rate of abuse and I personally believe the actual reports are merely the tip of the iceberg because of an envirinment of secrecy, shame, and male dominance in the church. If you wish to read individual stories of sexual abuse...many cases which were never reported, go to the website by ex-mormon (( link removed by ROR)) You'll have to sift through a lot of angry posts...many of these people have a good deal to be angry about. The mormon church is listed as a cult by many people and organizations that track cults and sometimes, anger is what is needed to escape it's grip.

I'll post this info on it's own rip off report but my wife and several of her sisters were sexually abused by their mormon father years ago. I personally reported the abuse to authorities under the same mistaken impression that they could be trusted to take appropriate steps. One did, two or three others didn't. Incredibly, her father actually did admit to one case of incest and was never ex-communicated.

My wife actually wrote to Gordon B. Hinckley the current "prophet" of the mormon church. She received a return, signed letter promissing he would "look into the matter." (letter can be produced if needed). Well, the results of that investigation (if one was ever really held) is that this admitted perpetrator of incest and child abuse is currently serving as a Mormon Mission President in Europe. One of the higher and most respected callings in the church. So "Come all ye faithful" and tell me how a so called prophet can be taken seriously that knows of and ignores child abuse...contrary to the very words out of his own mouth.

Moral of the story, pass go, go directly to the local police to report abuse.
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#4 Consumer Comment

How about some real facts?

AUTHOR: Michael - (U.S.A.)

Garth, your reasoning is so full of holes that there isn't a whole lot left to hold it together. If you knew the history of the Bible as we know it today, you'd realize that you can't use it as an infallible basis for your arguments. It was put together by a committee a couple hundred years after the latest books in it were written, and has been copied and translated so many times that you'd be foolish to take it literally 100% of the time. Plus, there's no such thing as an "orthodox Christian." If there were, we wouldn't have so many hundreds of denominations and differing interpretations. What these so-called "orthodox Christians" have believed for ages has not stayed the same either, so it's meaningless to use such a thing for any comparison.

I'm an active member of the LDS church, and didn't grow up here in Utah, so I've been defending it all my life. Most all of the criticisms I hear are based on stupid things that some member said or did, which the critic then extends to apply to the doctrine of the church as a whole. Others are outright lies spread by ministers who have something to lose by their congregations leaving to join one of the fastest growing churches in the world. People say and do stupid things, and you can criticize them till the cows come home, but what it really comes down to is your personal testimony of the Book of Mormon. Ask God, not the Internet, and not your idiot returned missionary neighbor. (I served a mission too, and I'll admit that there are some individuals who come home having not put anything into the experience). God will answer you like He answered me.
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#5 Consumer Comment

How about some real facts?

AUTHOR: Michael - (U.S.A.)

Garth, your reasoning is so full of holes that there isn't a whole lot left to hold it together. If you knew the history of the Bible as we know it today, you'd realize that you can't use it as an infallible basis for your arguments. It was put together by a committee a couple hundred years after the latest books in it were written, and has been copied and translated so many times that you'd be foolish to take it literally 100% of the time. Plus, there's no such thing as an "orthodox Christian." If there were, we wouldn't have so many hundreds of denominations and differing interpretations. What these so-called "orthodox Christians" have believed for ages has not stayed the same either, so it's meaningless to use such a thing for any comparison.

I'm an active member of the LDS church, and didn't grow up here in Utah, so I've been defending it all my life. Most all of the criticisms I hear are based on stupid things that some member said or did, which the critic then extends to apply to the doctrine of the church as a whole. Others are outright lies spread by ministers who have something to lose by their congregations leaving to join one of the fastest growing churches in the world. People say and do stupid things, and you can criticize them till the cows come home, but what it really comes down to is your personal testimony of the Book of Mormon. Ask God, not the Internet, and not your idiot returned missionary neighbor. (I served a mission too, and I'll admit that there are some individuals who come home having not put anything into the experience). God will answer you like He answered me.
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#6 Consumer Comment

behind the zion curtain ..Living in Salt Lake City and being a non-mormon can be a real problem at times.

AUTHOR: Michael - (U.S.A.)

I moved here on my own free will and will leave as soon as I can. In the mean time I and others, have to deal with the holier-than-thou attitude of the members of the LDS Church. Even getting a date here can be a challenge. If you aren't one of "them" then forget it. But that's their problem.

A few years ago there was a murder in Park City. The man murdered was gay and was killed by a bunch of drunk red necks. The trial judge, a devout Mormon, found the rednecks NOT guilty saying that the gay man deserved to die because the Church despises gays and their lifestyle. (A&E aires a program called City Confidential and this case was profiled in an episode. I recommend ordering it and watching it). So yes, like any business (yes, business) the LDS Church does a lot of damage control and spinning. Which is easy to do when you own a major radio station, TV station (both KSL) and both local news papers (Salt Lake Tribune and Deseret News)

In short, I have come to the conclusion that there is a big difference between Utah Mormons and REAL Mormons. Utah Mormons are arrogant, condoscending and rude. REAL Mormons are the caring, compassionate loving people that they really are.

He He, makes me think I moved to a giant Jerry Springer episode.
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#7 Consumer Comment

Mormons Tried to Cover Up Their " Members" Molestation of my Three Children

AUTHOR: Michelle - (U.S.A.)

Once upon a time there was a good upstanding Mormon boy, Derek Marlan Layton, that was our part time babysitter and worked for my company.

We finally found out that he had been molesting our three children for four years, and severly molesting them and threatening them not to tell, or he would kill their parents.

To make a long, long story short, Once he was arrested the Mormon Community came forward to protect Derek. The press wouldn't cover the story, "Largest Known Molest case in the State of Arizona at the time. We had fine upstanding Mormon citizens harassing us about picking on Derek.

The mormon community bailed him out of jail.

We spent a year and a half with court hearings, and Me, A mother, that believed I knew what was in the best interest of my children and my family.
I fought an uphill battle and with evidence fit to bury any king.

Derek Marlan Layton was sentenced, not to what the Mormon community wanted, Probation, LOL, but to what a bitter and angry mother defending her children wanted. TWENTY FIVE YEARS FLAT in the Arizona Department of Corrections.

Parents, you can beat the Mormons in Court, Stick to your guns, pray a lot and fight like Hell for your Childrens Rights.
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#8 Consumer Comment

Do our church a favor...

AUTHOR: Emily - (U.S.A.)


Write to Church headquarters and ask to have your name removed from church records.
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#9 Consumer Suggestion

No excuse for abuse or cover ups either

AUTHOR: Garth - (U.S.A.)

To all the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, I want to apologize for all those that have called themselves Christians and offended you. Being a Christian is to follow Christ in all things. Abuse is not one of the. It isn't hard to believe that abuse is happening within what is aka as LDS and being covered up by those that have any position in the church. At the moment, I am still considered to be LDS, even though I am what the church would call inactive, especially after almost 21 years of not having been in any LDS church. I was baptised in 1984 in the stake center right beside the temple right outside of Washington DC. I always had a funny feeling about all of it from the very beginning. There was something not quite right about all of it, especially using something other the the King James 1611 Bible, of which part of it can be found in the Book of Mormon. A cult always uses the Bible, as well as something else that a man came up with. Experts today have proven that the plates and writings that Joseph Smith alledgedly translated correctly, especially with regards to the book of Abraham, was not done so. It doesn't matter that Joseph Smith was wrong about it, or that he was a convicted con artist, or that he was a child molestor, (having sex with children made him that, especially since he was married). It doesn't matter that he also broke one of God's 10 commandments, the one that says, "Thou Shalt not Commit Adultery". From the beginning of creation it has always been one man and one woman, not one man and as many women as he sees fit.

Abuse is wrong, and those that cover it up are just as guilty as those that do it. And just because a person calls themself a "christian", does not mean they are. True Christianity can be identified by some very simple things. And if you are open minded to the truth, and stop believing you already have it, then you will find the solution to all your problems is not what you will get from man on this earth. Yes, God is a loving God, and He gives people free will to choose. God is a jealous and just God as well. He will punish those that reject salvation that was freely given to all by His one and only Son, Jesus Christ dying on the Cross at Calvary. The remission for sin was paid for all at that point, so nothing else remains to be done. Anything you or anyone else does or says you must do, basically says that what Jesus did on the cross meant nothing.

The biggest question in mine mind is Mormonism Christian? This may seem like a puzzling question to many, if not all Mormons as well as to some Christians. Mormons will note that they include the Bible among the four books which they recognize as Scripture, and that belief in Jesus Christ is central to their faith, as evidenced by their official name, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Furthermore, many Christians have heard the Mormon Tabernacle Choir sing Christian hymns and are favorably impressed with the Mormon commitment to high moral standards and strong families. Doesn't it follow that Mormonism is Christian? With enough money, anyone can become respectable, can't they?

To fairly and accurately resolve this question you would need to carefully compare the basic doctrines of the Mormon religion with the basic doctrines of historic, biblical Christianity. To represent the Mormon position we have relied on the following well-known Mormon doctrinal books, the first three of which are published by the Mormon Church: Gospel Principles (1997), Achieving a Celestial Marriage (1976), and A Study of the Articles of Faith (1979) by Mormon Apostle James E. Talmage, as well as Doctrines of Salvation (3 vols.) by the tenth Mormon President and prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Mormon Doctrine (2nd ed., 1979) by Mormon apostle Bruce R. McConkie and Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith.


The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that there is only one True and Living God and apart from Him there are no other Gods (Deuteronomy 6:4; Isaiah 43:10,11; 44:6,8; 45:21,22; 46:9; Mark 12:29-34).

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that there are many Gods (Book of Abraham 4:3ff), and that we can become gods and goddesses in the celestial kingdom (Doctrine and Covenants 132:19-20; Gospel Principles, p. 245; Achieving a Celestial Marriage, p. 130). It also teaches that those who achieve godhood will have spirit children who will worship and pray to them, just as we worship and pray to God the Father (Gospel Principles, p. 302).


The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that God is Spirit (John 4:24; 1 Timothy 6:15,16), He is not a man (Numbers 23:19; Hosea 11:9; Romans 1:22, 23), and has always (eternally) existed as God all powerful, all knowing, and everywhere present (Psalm 90:2; 139:7-10; Isaiah 40:28; Luke 1:37).

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that God the Father was once a man like us who progressed to become a God and has a body of flesh and bone (Doctrine and Covenants 130:22; "God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!" from Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 345-347; Gospel Principles, p. 9; Articles of Faith, p. 430; Mormon Doctrine, p. 321). Indeed, the Mormon Church teaches that God himself has a father, and a grandfather, ad infinitum (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 373; Mormon Doctrine, p. 577).

The Lie:
Don Lattin (religion editor, interviewing Gordon B. Hinckley, San Francisco Chronicle, April 13, 1997, p 3/Z1)

Q: There are some significant differences in your beliefs [from other Christian churches]. For instance, don't Mormons believe that God was once a man?
Hinckley: I wouldn't say that. There was a little couplet coined, "As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become." Now that's more of a couplet than anything else. That gets into some pretty deep theology that we don't know very much about.

Gordon B. Hinckley, as quoted in Time Magazine, Aug 4, 1997:

"On whether his church still holds that God the Father was once a man, [Hinckley] sounded uncertain, 'I don't know that we teach it. I don't know that we emphasize it... I understand the philosophical background behind it, but I don't know a lot about it, and I don't think others know a lot about it.'"

Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young (published by the church as an official lesson manual 1997 [text "approved 10/95"], p. 29):

"President Brigham Young taught ... that God the Father was once a man on another planet who 'passed the ordeals we are now passing through...'"

Notice that Hinckley specifically said "I don't know that we teach it" at the same time the church was publishing a lesson manual teaching it. Either Hinckley was lying, or he was woefully ignorant of what is being taught by his church. You would think he would know what he was talking about as he is making all the money the IRS allows, which is $500,000 a year, which is the most the IRS will allow the head of a non profit religious organization to make.

The Lie:
Larry King (whose present wife is Mormon) interviewed Gordon B. Hinckley on his nationally broadcast television show Larry King Live on September 8, 1998. He asked Hinckely about polygamy:

KING: You condemn it [polygamy].
HINCKLEY: I condemn it, yes, as a practice, because I think it is not doctrinal. It is not legal. And this church takes the position that we will abide by the law. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, magistrates in honoring, obeying and sustaining the law. [emphasis added]

The Truth:
The Doctrine and Covenants, a collection of doctrine and revelations of equal importance to the Book of Mormon, still contains Section 132, as it has for about 150 years. This is the famous revelation on plural marriage. Pertinent passages are [emphasis added]:

1 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines--
2 Behold, and lo, I am the Lord thy God, and will answer thee as touching this matter.
3 Therefore, prepare thy heart to receive and obey the instructions which I am about to give unto you; for all those who have this law revealed unto them must obey the same.
4 For behold, I reveal unto you a new and an everlasting covenant; and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye damned; for no one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory....
29 Abraham received all things, whatsoever he received, by revelation and commandment, by my word, saith the Lord, and hath entered into his exaltation and sitteth upon his throne.
30 Abraham received promises concerning his seed, and of the fruit of his loins-.... both in the world and out of the world should they continue as innumerable as the stars; or, if ye were to count the sand upon the seashore ye could not number them.
31 This promise is yours also, because ye are of Abraham, and the promise was made unto Abraham; and by this law is the continuation of the works of my Father, wherein he glorifieth himself.
32 Go ye, therefore, and do the works of Abraham; enter ye into my law and ye shall be saved.
33 But if ye enter not into my law ye cannot receive the promise of my Father, which he made unto Abraham.
34 God commanded Abraham, and Sarah gave Hagar to Abraham to wife. And why did she do it? Because this was the law; and from Hagar sprang many people. This, therefore, was fulfilling, among other things, the promises.
35 Was Abraham, therefore, under condemnation? Verily I say unto you, Nay; for I, the Lord, commanded it.
37 Abraham received concubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness, because they were given unto him, and he abode in my law; as Isaac also and Jacob did none other things than that which they were commanded; and because they did none other things than that which they were commanded, they have entered into their exaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods.
61 And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood--if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.
62 And if he have ten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified.

Ironic isn't it that one of the original 10 commandments given to Moses on stone tablets by God Himself, says "Thou Shalt not commit Adultery", and this would be a contradiction, would it not? Only thing is God can not contradict Himself, and God can not lie either.


The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that Jesus is the unique Son of God; he has always existed as God, and is co-eternal and co-equal with the Father (John 1:1, 14; 10:30; 14:9; Colossians 2:9). While never less than God, at the appointed time He laid aside the glory He shared with the Father (John 17:4, 5; Philippians 2:6-11) and was made flesh for our salvation; His incarnation was accomplished through being conceived supernaturally by the Holy Spirit and born of a virgin (Matthew 1:18-23; Luke 1:34-35).

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that Jesus Christ is our elder brother who progressed to godhood, having first been procreated as a spirit child by Heavenly Father and a heavenly mother; He was later conceived physically through intercourse between Heavenly Father and the virgin Mary (Achieving a Celestial Marriage, p. 129; Mormon Doctrine, pp. 546-547; 742). Mormon doctrine affirms that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers (Gospel Principles, pp. 17-18; Mormon Doctrine, p. 192).


The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost are not separate Gods or separate beings, but are distinct Persons within the one Triune Godhead. Throughout the New Testament the Son and the Holy Spirit, as well as the Father are separately identified as and act as God (Son: Mark 2:5-12; John 20:28; Philippians 2:10,11; Holy Spirit: Acts 5:3,4; 2 Corinthians 3:17,18; 13:14); yet at the same time the Bible teaches that these three are only one God (see point 1).

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are three separate Gods (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370; Mormon Doctrine, pp. 576-577), and that the Son and Holy Ghost are the literal offspring of Heavenly Father and a celestial wife (Joseph Fielding McConkie, Encyclopedia of Mormonism, vol. 2, p. 649).


The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that the disobedience of our first parents Adam and Eve was a great evil. Through their fall sin entered the world, bringing all human beings under condemnation and death. Thus we are born with a sinful nature, and will be judged for the sins we commit as individuals. (Ezekiel 18:1-20; Romans 5:12-21).

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that Adam's sin was "a necessary step in the plan of life and a great blessing to all of us" (Gospel Principles, p. 33; Book of Mormon 2 Nephi 2:25; Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp. 114-115).


The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that apart from the saving work of Jesus Christ on the cross we are spiritually "dead in trespasses and sins" (Ephesians 2:1,5) and are powerless to save ourselves. By grace alone, apart from self-righteous works, God forgives our sins and makes us worthy to live in His presence (Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5-6). Our part is only to cling to Christ in heartfelt faith. (However, it is certainly true that without the evidence of changed conduct, a person's testimony of faith in Christ must be questioned; salvation by grace alone through faith, does not mean we can live as we please Romans 6:1-4).

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that eternal life in the presence of God (which it terms "exaltation in the celestial kingdom") must be earned through obedience to all the commands of the Mormon Church, including exclusive Mormon temple rituals. Works are a requirement for salvation (entrance into the "celestial kingdom") Gospel Principles, p. 303-304; Pearl of Great Price Third Article of Faith; Mormon Doctrine, pp. 339, 671; Book of Mormon 2 Nephi 25:23).


The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that the purpose of the atoning work of Christ on the cross was to provide the complete solution for humankind's sin problem. However, those who reject God's grace in this life will have no part in this salvation but are under the judgment of God for eternity (John 3:36; Hebrews 9:27; 1 John 5:11-12).

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that the purpose of the atonement was to bring resurrection and immortality to all people, regardless of whether they receive Christ by faith. Christ's atonement is only a partial basis for worthiness and eternal life, which also requires obedience to all the commands of the Mormon church, including exclusive Mormon temple rituals (Gospel Principles, pp. 74-75; Mormon Doctrine, p. 669).


The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that the Bible is the unique, final and infallible Word of God (2 Timothy 3:16; Hebrews 1:1,2; 2 Peter 1:21) and that it will stand forever (1 Peter 1:23-25). God's providential preservation of the text of the Bible was marvelously illustrated in the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that the Bible has been corrupted, is missing many "plain and precious parts" and does not contain the fullness of the Gospel (Book of Mormon 1 Nephi 13:26-29; Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, pp. 190-191).

In the same interview with Larry King, Hinckley said:

HINCKLEY: I say this to other people: you develop all the good you can. We have no animosity toward any other church. We do not oppose other churches. We never speak negatively of other churches. [emphasis added]

The Truth:
Joseph Smith was the first Mormon to attack other religions. In his autobiography (now a part of Mormon scripture, in the Pearl of Great Price) he says:

"I asked the Personages [God the Father and God the Son] who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)--and which I should join. I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt;..." (Joseph Smith - History 1:18-19, emphasis added)

In the Book of Mormon we find the assertion that anyone who does not belong to the "true" church (i.e., the Mormon church) belongs to the "church of the devil":

"And he [God] said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the w***e of all the earth." (1 Nephi 14:10, emphasis added; see also 13:6, 14:3, 9; Alma 5:39)

Brigham Young said the following about other churches:

"...the religions of the day were hatched in hell. The eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and then kicked on to the earth. They may be called cockatrices, for they sting wherever they go. " (Journal of Discourses 6:176, January 17, 1858)

"Whosoever confesseth that Joseph Smith was sent of God to reveal the holy Gospel to the children of men, and lay the foundation for gathering Israel, and building up the kingdom of God on the earth, that spirit is of God; and every spirit that does not confess that God has sent Joseph Smith, and revealed the everlasting Gospel to and through him, is of Antichrist" (Journal of Discourses 8:176, September 9, 1860)

Until 1990, the Mormon temple ceremony (the "endowment"), one of the most sacred religious rites in Mormonism, included a dramatization in which a Protestant minister was portrayed as a servant of Lucifer (Satan) and which mocked certain orthodox Christian beliefs as being absurd.

These facts would seem to contradict Hinckley's statement that "We never speak negatively of other churches."

So next time someone says something you don't like about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints, aka Mormona, or LDS, remember, that Joseph Smith spoke negatively about all churches and religions, yet he joined a Methodist Church after having this visions and finding the plates. If there was nothing at all wrong, by God's standards, not mine, with the LDS church, then there wouldn't be such a dearth, not death, of information that says the church is not what it seems to be or espouses to be, either.

The New York Times story on Mormonism states, "Despite the pervasive presence of the Mormon church in Utah, the state's divorce rate is higher than the national average. Utah also has serious problems with drug abuse, child abuse and teenage pregnancies" this despite that at that age of 12 males in good standing are eligible for ordination into the priesthood. Some young Utah missionaries have become disillusioned because of the hypocrisy and corrupt living they observed in some who claimed to be faithful Mormons, even among missionaries.

Oh, there is a Brigham Young University professor that once said, "In order to understand Mormonism, one should realize that its beginnings were rooted in magic and the occult". That can be found in the Utah Evangel. That was said before a packed house in Utah, as well as that Joseph Smith's father believed in the link between religion and witchcraft and brought up his children in these beliefs. Astrology was also believed in and relied on in the Smith family.

Can you be 100% certain you are going to heaven? In one minute I can explain to you how you can know for sure that if you died today you would go to Heaven.

All you have to know are 4 things.

1] Man is a sinner. Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

2] There is a price on sin, eternal death. Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

3] Jesus paid that price on the cross. Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

4] By faith in Christ we can be saved. Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.


Do you admit that you are a sinner?

Do you believe Jesus is the Son of God?

If you are sorry for your sins and would like for God to save your soul, just ask Him.

Dear Jesus,
Please forgive me of my sins. I trust you today, JESUS, and only You, to take me to HEAVEN when I die. Thank you for saving me.

Just as you were born to your parents, you were born into the Kingdom of God when you called on Jesus!

Simple isn't it?
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#10 Consumer Comment

Update on my situation

AUTHOR: Emily - (U.S.A.)

On September 3rd of 2004 my husband and I were both rebaptised. It took a little longer to finish the repentence process because I had so much anger for how my situation was handled. Through a lot of prayer I managed to let go of it. I can still feel the anger of what happened to me when I relive it, but I don't hold it... I don't feed it.

Thank you Lee for your comments, they mean a lot to me.

Cher, isn't that for my leaders to decide? Last I remember judgement is His. So it would be up to his representatives on earth.

Garth, there are sure a lot of you out there aren't there? People who actually seem to dedicate their life to bringing misery to others. Let me remind you that Jesus did not persecute anyone for their beliefs. He let all men believe and worship what they wanted. He never forced anyone to listen to him, and he never spoke ill of a religion except to say that he thought it was wrong. I am sure if he went into why he thought the pharisees were wrong it would have taken more than the bible to contain it.

The Mormon church does have an obligation to report abuse if it has not been reported. But supposedly it has been and nothing can be done about it. Puhleeze, don't even give me the line about a Christian church doesn't cover up abuse. I could list off half a dozen that I have known that do. One the pastor went to prison for it. But his followers are still screaming his innocence and calling conspiracy. I also have a good friend who went to one of your "Christian counselors", which is a really fancy name for Christian people who want to help people, but don't have any actual education to do so. They send in a $15 dollar check to the state and become what is known as a registered counselor. Which means they are on a registry with the state. They don't have any education whatsoever to be giving people advice or direction in their lives except on a purely religious basis, which excludes abuse sufferers.

I do not, and will not, believe in a vicious God. Our Father in Heaven is just that, our father, that a loving father would send his children to hell for something as minor as not belonging to your little church is pathetic. Non-denominational Christians are often such small churches that there aren't two of them with the same name; although I will admit that there are a few that have several. To believe that only that tiny group will go to heaven is ridiculous. But hey, claiming to follow Christ and persecuting and harassing people for their beliefs is pretty ridiculous too.

What it "all comes down to" is a scriptural definition of the term anti-Christ; which means a person who deliberately draws people away from Christ, usually by teaching philosophies of men and claims they are of God. You, trying to draw people away from a church where they find a close relationship with God would certainly fit that description wouldn't you? It is also in the scriptures that in the last day there will be many who try to draw us away into other paths. Leave us alone Garth. You say you are a Christian... then act like one.

I offer to all people the same challenge. If you want to know if the Mormon church is true or not... read the Book of Mormon, a second testament of Jesus Christ; and then pray about it in a quiet secluded spot with a sincere heart and ask God in Jesus name if it is true. It is in the bible that this is the way to find truth...

If a man lacks wisdom let him ask of God who giveth to all men liberally... and it shall be given him...
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#11 Consumer Comment

Life here doesnt always make sense

AUTHOR: Lee - (U.S.A.)

Thankyou Emily

I just read your post, thankyou for sharing your testimony with me. You have strenghtened mine. Life here doesnt always make sense but can you imagine being in your ex-husband's shoes when this is all over!! I watched my parents go through something similiar and have seen the strength in my mother but none in my father. There are many many LDS women who are married to unrightouse holier than thou priesthood holders. Keep those good friends close by. You will be an example to other LDS women who are in similar situations but stuck because of unrightous priesthood holders who abuse their families and somehow think the prophet is talking to someone else. Try the LDS apoligetic board FAIRS, you probably will find quite a bit of support from those in AND out of the church.
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#12 Consumer Comment

You are not ready for rebaptism

AUTHOR: Cher - (U.S.A.)

Dear Emily

I read your rebuttal, and I dont konw why things are what they are for your ex-husband, but as for you, if you think about it for a while, You are not ready for rebaptism. The mere fact that you wrote these things down says your not ready. Go back and study the covenants you make at baptism and those for the temple and then pray really hard, and then reread what you posted. Its very clear.

Good luck, Emily
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#13 Consumer Suggestion

Think about this and find out why this happens in what is supposed to be a Christian Church, but is it really that?

AUTHOR: Garth - (U.S.A.)

For Emily of Wichita, it is easier to see the truth when you stop thinking you have it already.

Check out http://wwww.JosephLied.com and find out the real story about if the LDS church has the truth or not.

It makes for very interesting reading and was put together by a former temple married hard core guy that investigated church history and found it to be a coverup and all about the money.

Here is something you should compare the "true" church to and see if it really is true, because is it possible to be a mormon and a Christian at the same time?

This is based on Pascal's wager. When there are 2 things being compared, there are normally 4 choices, unless the 4th choice is comparing two opposites, in this case, the Christianity of the King James Bible, and that of Mormonism, started by Joseph Smith, a man convicted of being a con man back in 1826. Would you really want to be part of a church that has their doctrines and covenants changed as many times as theirs has? Or would you want to be involved with a church that has had leaders deliberately lie before a US Senate investigation?

1. First, it is possible that the Mormon and the Christian, while sincere, are wrong about Truth. Therefore, both Mormonism and Christianity would be false religions.

2. Second, it is possible that the Mormon is right about Truth and the Christian is wrong. If this is true, then Mormonism as brought forth by Joseph Smith is God's restored gospel. Therefore, the Christian would belong to an apostate faith.

3. Third, it is possible that the Christian is right about Truth and the Mormon is wrong. If this is true, then the historic Christian faith is the only true Gospel. Therefore, the Mormon would belong to an apostate faith.

Despite LDS books such as Stephen E. Robinson's Are Mormons Christian? and other "ecumenical" books which attempt to make Mormonism and Christianity appear to be the same, no fourth possibility ("Both are right") exists because Mormonism and Christianity are in complete opposition to one another.

Some explanation may be needed regarding this last point. It should be noted that there are a number of major doctrines which separate the two faiths. These include: the nature of God (One God or many?), Jesus (God or "a" god?), scripture (The Bible or more?), authority (Where does it come from?), and salvation (Grace or works?). To say both faiths are right is impossible because one belief system invalidates the other.

This point can be made most clear in the idea of salvation. There are two types of salvation in Mormon doctrine: General and Individual. General salvation refers to the resurrection of all souls, both evil and good, which is said to have been made possible when Jesus sweat drops of blood in the Garden of Gethsemane, thus paying for the consequences for all mankind's sins (Mormon Doctrine, pg. 669).

Individual salvation, on the other hand, is reaching the top level of Mormonism's three-leveled heaven. This is known as the celestial kingdom. Within the celestial kingdom, there are three additional levels. True salvation occurs only at the very top of this celestial kingdom (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pp. 116, 117, 669, 670).

According to Mormon teaching, true salvation in Mormonism can only be received by worthy Mormons via the LDS Church. On the other hand, historic Christianity teaches that Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that no person can enter God's presence except through a true faith in Christ (John 14:6; Acts 16:31). An inadequate belief in God leads to eternal death (hell). Therefore, the two faiths cannot be made synonymous.

"Now that we have established that there are three choices, let's discuss the implications of each possibility."

1. If the first possibility is correct, then both the Mormon and the Christian are wrong. Perhaps the Hindu, Muslim, or Jehovah's Witness is correct, or maybe the other side of death is nonexistence. If this were true, both parties should explore all avenues since they are in need of Truth.

2. If the second possibility is correct, then the Mormon is right and the Christian is wrong. With individual salvation in mind as explained above, the Mormon would therefore have a chance to make it to the top level of the celestial kingdom if, as 2 Nephi 25:23 states, he is able to do all that he can do.

Interestingly enough, if the Mormon is right, the Christian's eternal destiny appears to be pretty secure. Since I appear to be a good person with good morals and a sincere heart, several Mormons have told me that I probably will make it to the second level of heaven known as the terrestrial kingdom.

Former Mormon Apostle Bruce McConkie, he is now deceased (he became a believer in the true Jesus of the Bible, not the Mormon Jesus, upon his death) would agree since he said, "Honorable men of the earth who are blinded by the craftiness of men and who therefore do not accept and live the gospel law" will achieve this level (Mormon Doctrine, pg. 784).

While this level is not as desirable as the Celestial Kingdom, the presence of the Son is evident there (D&C 76:77). One returned missionary even told me that I would shoot myself in the head to get there sooner if I had the chance to peek into this glory for merely five seconds.

3. This brings us to the third choice. However, unlike the previous possibility, no good is in store for the person who loses this bet if this possibility is true. If the Christian is right and the Mormon is wrong, it is the difference between heaven and hell. According to the Bible, heaven is the place where believers will abide with God for all eternity in His presence. Only true believers in Christ will be allowed entrance (Hebrews 12:23; John 3:16-21; Rev. 2:11; 20:6).

It should be pointed out how real hell is for unbelievers (Matt. 8:12, 25:41-46). It is eternal separation from God in a painful and final state (Rev. 14:10-11; 2 Thess. 1:9). It is, in actuality, a second death (Rev. 21:8). Those who will belong to this state include every person who did not have a true belief in God (John 3:18). And, despite the faulty interpretation many Mormons have concerning baptism for the dead in 1 Corinthians 15:29, biblical Christianity leaves no room for obtaining salvation after rejecting it in this life.

In other words, if Mormonism is true and Christianity is false, the Christian doesn't have much to lose. True, he or she may not be eligible for exaltation, but then again, it must be admitted that most of the millions of Mormons now living also will NOT be eligible for this state.
This is true because a majority of Mormons do not even possess valid temple recommends--a certain celestial kingdom requirement--let alone "do all they can do." Despite the umpteen requirements it takes to be a Mormon, being a good person appears to "do the job" to make it to the second level. But, not all is lost for all of those who are destined for the terrestrial kingdom; indeed, this populace will be allowed to abide in the glory of Jesus and comfortably exist in an eternal state.
However, if Christianity is true and Mormonism is false, the Mormon has everything to lose. Hell is a real place and every person who does not believe in the true God will go there for an eternity, which does not have an end to it.

For those that read this, they will find that a true Christian church, will not cover up things such as abuse or do what is necessary to prevent a bigger problem. A true Christian church would not have a problem in going to the authorities, and would most certainly not make you pay a dime, especially for counseling sessions, if you truly are in need of help.

And if you are looking for more facts about mormonism, as well as 3 other cults, check out http://www.ftfacts.com and you will be enlighted. I've told countless Mormons, "It's easier to see the truth when you stop assuming you already have it". That is from Mike Norton, a former LDS missionary, temple married mormon, who used to get e-mail from faithful Mormons who were convinced that he must have left "The Church" because he was either offended by someone or because he "couldn't live the gospel". They are so convinced that Mormonism is true that they can't conceive of the possibility that someone would leave the Church solely because it isn't true. He has told countless Mormons, "It's easier to see the truth when you stop assuming you already have it".

Please feel free to copy Pascal's wager and share it as it makes for interesting conversation starting about Mormonism, or any other religion that claims to be the only true church. A true church would not do what has happened in this case at all.
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#14 Consumer Comment

Update on situation

AUTHOR: Emily - (U.S.A.)

I understand your anger and confusion about how the Church isn't doing what you feel they should do. Looking back I see that I didn't go into what they have done for my ex, and for me.

After six years of occasional viscious physical abuse and constant emotional abuse I started to get up the courage to leave my first husband. But I didn't know where I was going to go, or how to support my two children and myself. I had a good friend that I had been exchanging e-mails with who was trying to help me. He also was a member of the church, but a convert, unlike myself. In the process of helping me we fell in love. I had been separated from my first husband once before and had been so terrified he would come after me and kill me that I slept with a knife under my pillow, often my hand around the handle. He stalked me, harassed me, and broke into my apartment during that time. I took him back in a last ditch effort to save my marriage. He had agreed to get counseling and a long list of other conditions before I would accept him back. After six months it was obvious that nothing had changed. He went to counseling all right, but he wouldn't do anything the counselor said, he would just go. He didn't feel he had a problem, so he wouldn't accept help or advice. I announced I wanted a divorce and he reacted again violently, spurring my current husband to move across the country to be close enough to protect me. It worked and the violence and threats ceased. He wouldn't give me a divorce though, I had to pay for it, and arrange everything myself. He told me if I didn't stay living with him until it was final he would fight me to the end, drawing it out, and doing everything in his power to hurt my children. So I stayed. I told him in no uncertain terms that I would not have sex with him and didn't want him even trying. I would cook and I would clean, I would take care of business matters, pay the bills, everything I had been doing, but he had to leave me alone. A week before the divorce was final he raped me, claiming he had done it to put the "spark" back in our marriage. I couldn't go to the police without having our son find out what had happened, and you know how pathetic the police are about spousal rape. So I let it go and warned him not to do it again. The night before the divorce was final he raped me again, in what was the most traumatic and humiliating sexual encounter I have ever imagined. This time I did not let it go. I could't go to the police... but I could go to the church.

In the next year and a half he bounced me three child support checks causing untold financial damages in overdraft and bouncing charges to my bank account. Most of it never to be recovered. The times he chose were respectively; Valentine's Day, the month my new daughter was born, and Christmas Eve. The last bounce on Christmas Eve caused such damaged my bank account was locked up for a month and a half. When I confronted him about the last one he tried to attack me in front of my children and two witnesses. (Why the change? My husband who he is terrified of was not there at the time.) The next year he threatened to crash my oldest daughter's baptism because he was not invited. She is not his child and hates him for the abuses and neglect he showered on her and her brother. He was willing to destroy this special occasion to hurt me, not caring about, or intentionally hurting, her as well. Only by informing him there would be several friends there in force guarding all doors to prevent him ruining her special day did we prevent such a catastrophe.

Now here is the kicker, he went and told the ward and stake leaders heaven knows what about me and my current husband. We did live together for two weeks before we got married. Pretty much because I was afraid for my life and my children. My husband and myself were both swiftly excommunicated. I don't know what my ex-husband told the leaders but it is now three and a half years later... and they haven't let us back in yet. Every Sunday I go to church with my family and my husband and I help our little ones take the sacrament... and we cannot.

So what happened to my ex-husband? The church knows everything he did. And he was before the divorce, and has remained to this day, a "worthy" temple recommend carrying member. In fact he remarried in the temple. It was pretty simple as I understand it... they asked him if he did those things and he said "no". And that was all there was to it. I admitted to my sins, and paid the ultimate price the church can hand down. He lied and partakes of the blessing I so desperately want. I currently have a restraining order against him, my second(?), I have lost count. And I will be renewing it next month. Yet he is untouched by the disciplinary counsels while I have sought rebaptism for three and a half years.

So why do I stay... with possibly corrupt church leaders having done this to me, having to go through what many would see as public humiliation every Sunday? Because I know who I am. I know the church is true, that we have the restored gospel. When you know that it comes down to a basic question. Do I believe my leaders are called of God, for good or ill? Yes, I do. I don't understand what I feel was a terrible injustice, but I do not doubt it is for a reason. I do not understand the reason, but I will grow stronger for my trials and rise above the ashes of my former life. I will pass through the refiner's fire and come out a stronger steel.

Why don't I join another church? One church is like another, right? Wrong. Only we have the restored gospel. The other churches have this odd "saved by grace" thing. They seem to think they can live their lives as sinfully as they want and repent occasionally, but keep doing the same sins, or if they are truly sorry on their death bed they will be saved. I don't believe in that. (I know it works for a lot of people, but I am not interested in getting into a debate about it. I am telling any who would ask the answers to questions that everyone, their dog and their brother asks.) I pattern my life after my Savior's. I try to do what is right always, to treat everyone, even my enemies with love. Make no mistake anyone who hurts my children is my enemy.

This does not mean I allow it to continue happening. I stopped it and will continue to protect my children, always.

You are being tried. That is obvious. What that means is that you are a more powerful soul. Your trials are given in relation to your strength. You will never be given anything more than you can bear. It will just amaze you how much you can live through. You have a choice as well. Will you turn to Him or against Him in your struggles? That choice is only yours.
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#15 Consumer Comment

Church not responsible; Separation of Church and State.

AUTHOR: Jake - (U.S.A.)

You are wasting your time talking to church officials. The job of the leaders of the church is to preach the gospel, not to enforce the law. You have police and courts to do that and sometimes (often) they will let you down. The church has nothing to do with it. Just like with the Catholics. The priest can ask you if you did something wrong and if you fess up he will have you say some hail marys. If the guy doesn't confess, the bishop can't do squat. It is none of his business anyway. You are just involving irrelevant parties.

Personally, if I knew that someone was going to molest my daughters I would either take the children and leave the country, or kill the predator. You have the right to protect your family even with the shedding of blood. Look what the 12 sons of Jacob (Israel) did when their sister Dinah was defiled.
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#16 Consumer Suggestion

Here is an odd thing to blame on the Mormon church...

AUTHOR: Emily - (U.S.A.)

So your ex is a horrible person and is allowing your daughters to be abused and/or molested? Well thanks for sharing. What exactly does that have to do with the Mormon religion?

Church's should not try to interfere in their members lives. You need to call Child Protective Services, and the police department that has jurisdiction over where the abuse is happening. You do not need to blame a religious institution for domestic problems.

I have the same problems you do, and I have never expected any church to handle my family problems for me. Honestly if you are still allowing your children any contact with that family I have to question your dedication as a parent. I gathered evidence over the course of a month, and then I went to court, the police and CPS. Anyone who would listen to me. I will not allow any sort of visitation until he has completed extensive counseling over the course of no less than a year. Then only supervised visitation until I am sure he has given up the emotional abuse as well.

Document everything, take pictures of bruises and other injuries in black and white... that brings out the whole bruise and not just the dark area. Have witnesses who are or were mutual friends, or best of all proffesionals, such as doctors, counselors, or police officers. They are credible witnesses whereas anything your children tell you is not allowed in court because it is considered heresay. Have these girls tell their doctors everything, because if they are under eighteen they will not be allowed to speak in court.

Good luck with your battle, a long but worthwhile one. (I fought for a restraining order for eight months) But do not doubt it is your battle...not that of a church.
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#17 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Mormons preach false doctrine, Bible is infallible Word of God

AUTHOR: sondra - ()

Danny T. Arizona, I was a Mormon my whole life. 3 years ago I read the Bible all the way through. 2 years ago I was born again as Christ tells us to in the Word of God (Bible). This is the greatest thing that ever happened to me. I searched the Lord and His truth with all my heart and He heard me, answered me and revealed His truth to me.

Please seek God for your's and your daughter's sakes. God is in control and will not let you down. He showed me through visions and scriptures answers to my desperate questions. God is faithful. Don't depend on religion. Seek Jesus and He will deliver you and your daughters.

I believe because the Mormon religion is a cult that really bad things can happen when you're bound by false teachings and a false religion, Galatians 1, 6-9 and II Timothy 4, 3 & 4. Please pray with all your heart and all your might and God will show you the truth. Remember Satan will come against you, just stand firm with Jesus.

I will pray for you. It's awesome to be Holy Spirit filled. I now attend the Assembly of God, which the Lord directed me to. God bless you. Depend on Jesus, not Mormons!!!
S. Henslee California
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#18 0

You don't know the half of it...

AUTHOR: - ()

I appreciate your comments and your supportive attitude, however, be assured that I have only brushed the surface of this story. I DO have solid evidence of the abuse, to include the testimony of the step-daughter that my ex-wife's paramour molested her from age 10 to 15. He also beat her and the police had to called a number of times. I called the police and CPS and they did not take me seriously.

From 1993 to the present I have spent $87,500 in legal fees to enforce my visitation rights, court-ordered counseling with and for my children and I never had any sort of regular visitation with them. My ex-wife has had 11 counts of contempt from JDR court for interfering with my visitation.

Meanwhile, while I am using the legal system to resolve the divorce issues between us, my ex-wife involved her Bishop, who agreed with me that if I returned certain items to her, he would assure that I got my things back. As soon as I gave those items to her, the Bishop would not talk to me any longer.

Don't think that I am covering for these men, but I do understand that they are men, who are fallible. Sometimes, men in these positions forget the mission and get caught up in "administrating" the gospel, instead of "administering" the gospel. The needs of EVERY individual should be the greatest mission over damage control and stomping out brush fires.
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#19 Consumer Suggestion

Call the POLICE!!

AUTHOR: Dave - ()

Though I'm not trying to downplay your loyalty to your church, it seems to me that you need to get an outside agency involved in an attempt to resolve this issue.

Obviously I'm not advocating calling the police or child protective services unless you have SOLID PROOF of what this man is doing to your daughters.

Your so-called church hierarchy sounds like a bunch of 'good 'ole boys' that cover each other's butts.

You owe it to your daughters to find another avenue of help.
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