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  • Report: #187091

Complaint Review: Creditors Interchange

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  • Submitted: Mon, April 17, 2006
  • Updated: Tue, October 07, 2008

  • Reported By:pensacola Florida
Creditors Interchange
80 Holtz Drive Buffalo, New York U.S.A.

Creditors Interchange ripoff Rude tactics threatining unreasonable people Buffalo New York

*Consumer Suggestion: Steve old buddy you have no problem discrediting yourself

*Consumer Suggestion: Steve old buddy you have no problem discrediting yourself

*Consumer Suggestion: Steve old buddy you have no problem discrediting yourself

*Consumer Suggestion: Steve old buddy you have no problem discrediting yourself

*Consumer Suggestion: Steven-Jacksonville appears to be a stalker. That is really creepy! And..

*Consumer Suggestion: Just another quick note

*Consumer Suggestion: Thanks for the update Steve

*Consumer Suggestion: Thanks for the update Steve

*Consumer Suggestion: Thanks for the update Steve

*Consumer Suggestion: Thanks for the update Steve

*Consumer Suggestion: Absolutely correct- 1099 is for income- when you settle w/a bank, taxes are due!!

*Consumer Comment: A little clarification - charge offs.

*Consumer Comment: John from Califon, NJ makes a good point! Here is your answer.

*Consumer Suggestion: Charge of is not "forgiven"

*Consumer Comment: Question

*Consumer Comment: Advise

*Consumer Suggestion: Steven_Jax needs to learn how to read and comprehend! Pay attention!!

*Consumer Comment: Wow all these Steve's and lets agree to disagree, to keep it intellectual and gentlmenly

*Consumer Comment: Why so rude steve

*Consumer Comment: Steven, your responses are ridiculous!

*Consumer Suggestion: You know what would really be bad

*Consumer Suggestion: Not just talking income

*Consumer Suggestion: Not just talking income

*Consumer Suggestion: Not just talking income

*Consumer Suggestion: Not just talking income

*Consumer Comment: Steve is right

*Consumer Comment: Steve is right

*Consumer Comment: Steve is right

*Consumer Suggestion: To Tim and Steven...The point is being missed here entirely.

*Consumer Suggestion: As Usual Steve in Bradenton wrong again

*Consumer Suggestion: Here's how the creditor can "jump in."

*Consumer Suggestion: One way to combat these guys

*Consumer Suggestion: Tim How do you "jump in" on signed agreements - unless they are speaking of $ in trust after?

*Consumer Suggestion: Advice and some words for Steve

*Consumer Suggestion: Agree w/Steve from Bradenton-Just one thing though!

*Consumer Suggestion: Steven-Gibsonton, your information is not correct.

*Consumer Suggestion: Educatin and knowledge the key to avoiding harassment - info available

*Consumer Suggestion: Educatin and knowledge the key to avoiding harassment - info available

*Consumer Suggestion: Educatin and knowledge the key to avoiding harassment - info available

*Consumer Suggestion: Educatin and knowledge the key to avoiding harassment - info available

*Consumer Suggestion: What happened to the settlement w/MBNA-did you not get it in writing? Agency has broken law!

*Consumer Comment: Reference to Steve from Bradenton's comments

*Consumer Suggestion: The REAL way to "DEAL" with Collection agencies...

*Consumer Comment: Contact the NY Attorney General NOW!

*Consumer Comment: how to deal with collection agencies

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Ok so i have had a MBNA accout set up for several years. I had been making payments on this account for a couple years with no hitch. In Feuary i decided to see if i could settle the account through MBNA and a resonable amout was aggreed upon by myself and MBNA.

Everything is great my mind is at ease and i am happy i did the right thing by making good on the debt that haunted me for several years.

Enter a phone call from everyones favorite person fom creditors interchange Damon Wilson who btw as of this write up is still there. Tells me that i needed to pay them $5900.00 cause they bought my MBNA account???????

I was very distraught and confused Only a month from paying my MBNA acct off it was sold to True logic corp who these guys are representing. So i tell him that there is no way i can pay this ammount. I was sick to my stomache and still am now about it. I tried on 3 seperate times now to make a payment arrangment with them that i know i can afford but they wont accept it. As a matter of fact they kept giving me the whole pay or else riot act.

Now i was getting very upset. My wife had to field the last couple of phone calls for me...i was a wreck. SO they then proceed to threaten her over the phone and told her she had a big fat mouth and that this is why it wasnt ever settled ...and hung up. YIKES and so it gets worse they also tell her that they are going to send a letter to my commander about this....to try to ruin my military career. Which btw does them no good...no paycheck ...deffinitly no $$.

So now my wife and i are at the breaking point. WE have been atttempting to make good on this and we are treated like criminals. I am so confused now that i dont know what to do....I spoke with a lawyer about it and she said they are breaking so many laws its unbeleiveable. She also said that we can just send them a letter saying that whis is what we can pay and a check for as little as possible with it. She also said that they have to accept anypayment i give them no matter how much. Now at this point i dont want to send them a dime. However i cant afford to let this effect my career.

I already spoke with my commander about it and he said to talk to another lawyer on base about it. So i am doing that tommorrow. How is it that they can be so cruel? How is it that they can treat people like that without finding out what the reality of the situation is?

They went so far as to tell me about my credit report? How can they pull it without my permission? I am a very hard working defender of our country and am proud to do my service even if it is defending lowlifes like these people.

Please if anyone has any advice i would love to hear it. amatoth@hotmail.com put RIPOFF in the title

Youllsee
Pensacola, Florida
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 04/17/2006 03:31 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Creditors-Interchange/Buffalo-New-York/Creditors-Interchange-ripoff-Rude-tactics-threatining-unreasonable-people-Buffalo-New-York-187091. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 Consumer Suggestion

Steve old buddy you have no problem discrediting yourself

AUTHOR: Steven - (U.S.A.)

Steve, If this is such a good idea then why are you paying on your mom's three credit cards????? Why not just have her do what you have done???

The worst that can happen in Florida is that the creditors take out a lien on the sale of your moms house. She can even file for bankruptcy and keep the house as long as the mortgage is paid.
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#2 Consumer Suggestion

Steve old buddy you have no problem discrediting yourself

AUTHOR: Steven - (U.S.A.)

Steve, If this is such a good idea then why are you paying on your mom's three credit cards????? Why not just have her do what you have done???

The worst that can happen in Florida is that the creditors take out a lien on the sale of your moms house. She can even file for bankruptcy and keep the house as long as the mortgage is paid.
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#3 Consumer Suggestion

Steve old buddy you have no problem discrediting yourself

AUTHOR: Steven - (U.S.A.)

Steve, If this is such a good idea then why are you paying on your mom's three credit cards????? Why not just have her do what you have done???

The worst that can happen in Florida is that the creditors take out a lien on the sale of your moms house. She can even file for bankruptcy and keep the house as long as the mortgage is paid.
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#4 Consumer Suggestion

Steve old buddy you have no problem discrediting yourself

AUTHOR: Steven - (U.S.A.)

Steve, If this is such a good idea then why are you paying on your mom's three credit cards????? Why not just have her do what you have done???

The worst that can happen in Florida is that the creditors take out a lien on the sale of your moms house. She can even file for bankruptcy and keep the house as long as the mortgage is paid.
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#5 Consumer Suggestion

Steven-Jacksonville appears to be a stalker. That is really creepy! And..

AUTHOR: Steve - (U.S.A.)

This guy Steven-Jacksonville has some obsession with me! It appears that he is seeking out and posting to all of my posts here on ROR! That is really creepy! I feel as if I am being stalked!

My best guess is that Steven-Jacksonville is a "QTG" [Quaker-Tropicana-Gatorade] shill. He is engaging in a pattern of activity here to some way discredit me, possibly to try and use this other stuff against me in my ARBITRATION CASE against Tropicana - Bradenton. That Arbitration is set for mid-August this year.

Now to answer the QTG shill,

Who said my "book deal" fell through? Who ever said I had a "book deal"? Not me. Where did you get this? Just another case of ZERO READING COMPREHENSION regarding Steven-Jacksonville [QTG Shill].

I never had a "book deal" and never claimed to have a "book deal". A "book deal" is when you sign a contract with a publisher. My book would be SELF PUBLISHED. It is still in the works, but just delayed due to the fact that I need to spend more of my time dealing with idiots, like you.

As far as my credit situation goes, once again, you failed to read and comprehend what actually happened, and the timeline.

I took MY money out of the bank to make it untouchable AFTER my credit card companies all raised my interest rates sky high for no legitimate reason and refused to correct the problem. They got greedy, and lost.

You see, I don't bargain with idiots. I had spotless credit for 14 years and had a 735 credit score when I "walked away" from my creditors. NONE of my accounts were even 1 day delinquent when I walked away. Not 1.

They gave me a "take it, or leave it" attitude, so given the 2 choices, I left it.
I do not accept that level of arrogance from anyone. If you give me a "take it, or leave it" attitude, be ready for the consequences.

And, you should get your facts straight. It was $170,000 I walked away from.
Your "perception" is ALWAYS wrong, as you are a moron who has no reading and/or comprehension skills.

You are not adding anything of value here, but rather choose just to stir things up.
You are a stalker. You are a very sick person. I bet your preference is small children. You fit right in with the QTG clan, Especially the Tropicana HR office! The husband of the HR Director married to a registered sexual offender /predator who engaged in a sexual act against a child under the age of 12. Rehired after release from incarceration, AND kept his seniority!

All of this happened under PepsiCo ownership and in violation of PepsiCo's own policy on the hire/rehire of undesireable persons. It is spelled out in the PepsiCo worldwide code of conduct, and has been Tropicana's policy for the last several years under PepsiCo. I was informed of this policy by Ed Padilla of Express personnel who did the hiring for Tropicana.

I have all of the documentation I need. And, they gave this guy 1-2 hrs off during his shift every week to go see his probation officer, but could not give me 1 hour twice per week off OUTSIDE my normal shift to get needed medical attention!

Yeah, I'm glad your here stirring things up! It won't work in your favor. Guaranteed.

Go back to your cubicle now. There must be someone else to stalk, or some kiddie porn to watch. You are a genuine sick person.

>>>
Submitted: 6/13/2008 3:38:44 PM
Modified: 6/13/2008 6:19:02 PM Steven
Jacksonville, Florida
U.S.A.

Thanks for the update Steve
Sorry your book deal fell through. I heard someone else has compiled all your ideas and is selling the info. Not sure who though, I heard it the other day on an infomercial while I was getting ready for work.

Was just wondering what the definition of credit fraud was??? Something about obtaining goods and/or services on credit with no intent on paying it back? I saw your discussion with Parker a while back and you told him that you had 35k in your pocket when you told the credit card companies to take a hike. That is what you said right. That you charged up 36k on your credit card during a 6 month road trip and refused to pay it because they raised the interest on you????? Or you were deep in debt?????? So why charge 36k on your credit card if you were in debt already. Doesn't sound too responsible to me anyway.

Unfortunately I didn't save do a cut and paste of your comments but I am sure you will let me know if my perception of what you said is wrong.

Good luck with Tropicana. We should discuss the ADA thing in more detail on an appropriate site. I will refrain from inflammatory language if you will.



>>>
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#6 Consumer Suggestion

Just another quick note

AUTHOR: Steven - (U.S.A.)

Sorry Steve I have a bad habit of reading things into what people say. Sometimes this is a good thing and some times leads to the feeling that I do not comprehend what is written as opposed to how I was to interpret it.

"Who said anything about 'mail forwarding'??? Not me. There is a big difference between filling out a few bogus credit card applications with a bad address, and the act of forwarding your mail to a bogus address. Once again, learn how to read, and comprehend what was actually written."


Here is where I got the "forwarding mail" part. Does it look familiar??

"2. Any mail you get without a name on the return address area, is from a debt collector. Therfore, DO NOT even open it! Mark one
line diagonally through the to address on the envelope and mark it 'Not at this address'...'Return to sender'..and then drive
by one of the big blue mailboxes and drop it in..

This is the first round of being invisible.

Now, get a private mailbox at a UPS store, or the like and FORWARD your mail to it. This will make it appear that you have moved.
Now, take any names off of your house and mailbox or anywhere else in your yard or driveway. Put up NO SOLICITING and
NO TRESPASSING signs, as well as BEWARE of DOG signs.

When you sign for the private mailbox, do not use your actual address, use an old address if still in the same area or just make one up. They don't need your address as they put renewal
notices in your box.

Now to further throw them off, fill out 2 or 3 credit applications in an old address that you lived at like 3-5 years ago or more.
then do a mail forwarding in your name only from that address to your HOME address, which wil in turn get re-forwarded to your private mailbox! There is a very important reason for doing it
this way. The reason is that that old bogus address will now be reported to the credit reporting agencies as your CURRENT address! The bonehead collectors will be looking in the wrong place!

This is absolutely beautiful and it works! I do it every 6 months."

I was just concerned that along with collectors looking for you that more credit card applications would also head to these "bad addresses". There is a limit on time that the post office will forward mail (I think it is about a year). After that they will send mail intended for you or whoever and that person would have to rely on the honesty of the person living there to either throw it away as junk mail (technically illegal since it is interfering in the delivery of the mail), mark it as unknown addressee and send it back, or as I said before fill it out. Which I know is illegal but is still a pain as far as credit fraud goes.

Now I know why employers are wary of people that seemingly move around alot. If it shows up to the credit reporting companies as moving every six months then how would you explain this if you apply for a job that requires a background check (usually including credit as well). I would think it would be enjoyable trying to explain the discrepancy between your credit reports and your job application to a prospective employer. Since some may or may not appreciate the intent.

See Steve you teach me more every day. Just a thought you can take it anyway you please.
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#7 Consumer Suggestion

Thanks for the update Steve

AUTHOR: Steven - (U.S.A.)

Sorry your book deal fell through. I heard someone else has compiled all your ideas and is selling the info. Not sure who though, I heard it the other day on an infomercial while I was getting ready for work.

Was just wondering what the definition of credit fraud was??? Something about obtaining goods and/or services on credit with no intent on paying it back? I saw your discussion with Parker a while back and you told him that you had 35k in your pocket when you told the credit card companies to take a hike. That is what you said right. That you charged up 36k on your credit card during a 6 month road trip and refused to pay it because they raised the interest on you????? Or you were deep in debt?????? So why charge 36k on your credit card if you were in debt already. Doesn't sound too responsible to me anyway.

Unfortunately I didn't save do a cut and paste of your comments but I am sure you will let me know if my perception of what you said is wrong.

Good luck with Tropicana. We should discuss the ADA thing in more detail on an appropriate site. I will refrain from inflammatory language if you will.
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#8 Consumer Suggestion

Thanks for the update Steve

AUTHOR: Steven - (U.S.A.)

Sorry your book deal fell through. I heard someone else has compiled all your ideas and is selling the info. Not sure who though, I heard it the other day on an infomercial while I was getting ready for work.

Was just wondering what the definition of credit fraud was??? Something about obtaining goods and/or services on credit with no intent on paying it back? I saw your discussion with Parker a while back and you told him that you had 35k in your pocket when you told the credit card companies to take a hike. That is what you said right. That you charged up 36k on your credit card during a 6 month road trip and refused to pay it because they raised the interest on you????? Or you were deep in debt?????? So why charge 36k on your credit card if you were in debt already. Doesn't sound too responsible to me anyway.

Unfortunately I didn't save do a cut and paste of your comments but I am sure you will let me know if my perception of what you said is wrong.

Good luck with Tropicana. We should discuss the ADA thing in more detail on an appropriate site. I will refrain from inflammatory language if you will.
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#9 Consumer Suggestion

Thanks for the update Steve

AUTHOR: Steven - (U.S.A.)

Sorry your book deal fell through. I heard someone else has compiled all your ideas and is selling the info. Not sure who though, I heard it the other day on an infomercial while I was getting ready for work.

Was just wondering what the definition of credit fraud was??? Something about obtaining goods and/or services on credit with no intent on paying it back? I saw your discussion with Parker a while back and you told him that you had 35k in your pocket when you told the credit card companies to take a hike. That is what you said right. That you charged up 36k on your credit card during a 6 month road trip and refused to pay it because they raised the interest on you????? Or you were deep in debt?????? So why charge 36k on your credit card if you were in debt already. Doesn't sound too responsible to me anyway.

Unfortunately I didn't save do a cut and paste of your comments but I am sure you will let me know if my perception of what you said is wrong.

Good luck with Tropicana. We should discuss the ADA thing in more detail on an appropriate site. I will refrain from inflammatory language if you will.
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#10 Consumer Suggestion

Thanks for the update Steve

AUTHOR: Steven - (U.S.A.)

Sorry your book deal fell through. I heard someone else has compiled all your ideas and is selling the info. Not sure who though, I heard it the other day on an infomercial while I was getting ready for work.

Was just wondering what the definition of credit fraud was??? Something about obtaining goods and/or services on credit with no intent on paying it back? I saw your discussion with Parker a while back and you told him that you had 35k in your pocket when you told the credit card companies to take a hike. That is what you said right. That you charged up 36k on your credit card during a 6 month road trip and refused to pay it because they raised the interest on you????? Or you were deep in debt?????? So why charge 36k on your credit card if you were in debt already. Doesn't sound too responsible to me anyway.

Unfortunately I didn't save do a cut and paste of your comments but I am sure you will let me know if my perception of what you said is wrong.

Good luck with Tropicana. We should discuss the ADA thing in more detail on an appropriate site. I will refrain from inflammatory language if you will.
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#11 Consumer Suggestion

Absolutely correct- 1099 is for income- when you settle w/a bank, taxes are due!!

AUTHOR: Justice Once And For All - (U.S.A.)

Agree w/the gentleman from Buffalo. Charge off, means nothing other than a loss was taken, and can't be shown on books as an asset any longer. Receivables are an asset on a balance sheet, and once charged off, can't be counted in the receiveables column any more, mandated by law, to prevent large companies (mostly banks) from disguising losses.

The 1099 comes into play if you settle a debt for, say 50% of what is owed. The I.R.S. will tax the difference of what you settled for and what you owed as taxable in your bracket. Settle w/ a bank, gurantee you will get that 1099. Settle w/a collection agency, well they kinda like to get on to the next factored (purchased) acct and may not send it to you. They are in a hurry, and often don't send the 1099, some play by the letter of the law, and do.

Now for aggressive judgement collections. When that money is in credit counseling, the people are remitting to credit counseling, only a small amount, maybe a few hundred dollars, and that money is not in the hands of the credit counseling companies hands but for a short period of time, not even a month, it is immediately disbursed to the several clients the counseling service is paying, wouldn't even be worth the attorneys time to execute the judgement, especially if the counseling service was in another state. Now a debt settlement co., a different story.

It is my understanding that debt settlement companies are no longer keeping individual accts, in individuals names, keeping the monies in the companies names, and still good ol Rocky Mountain Natl. Bank, and if someone could figure out why many if not all, use this little out of the way bank, hmmmmmmmm in the middle of nowhere, rural Colorado, boy they sure have good connections with the big city boys.

Sources:
answersfordebt.com
nfcc.org
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#12 Consumer Comment

A little clarification - charge offs.

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

""And, once a 1099 is issued and the loss writeoff and tax deduction has been taken, this debt is considered settled and can NEVER be collected on by anyone.""

Sounds right to me Steve, but only because you qualified the statement with THREE conditions.

My understanding (I currently own 2 small businesses) is that the debt is settled with the filing of the 1099. The 1099 is a statement by the creditor that the debt or a portion of the debt is forgiven. The forgiven monies are then considered as imputed income for IRS personal income tax purposes. Once a 1099 has been executed by the creditor, those monies cannot be collected by anyone - the debt has been forgiven and no longer exists! It is the execution of the 1099 that makes the debt dead in the water - absolved, done, finished.

A business write off or tax deduction for the bad debt does NOT forgive the debt or make the debt uncollectible.

A charge off (or write off) is NEITHER a statement by the creditor that the debt is forgiven NOR does it mean that the creditor can no longer attempt collections or collect the debt.

In fact, I can "charge off" a debt and STILL sue in civil court for the debt and win a money judgement against the entity that owes me money. I have done this on 2 occasions - in small claims court for unpaid rent (SOL is 20 years - I filed the judgments with the NYS Lottery and I'm hoping they win over $1000 so the lottery will pay me.)

Many folks seem to believe that once a business reports an unpaid debt as a charge off, and used it as a legitimate tax deduction, it cannot be collected. This simply is not true.

If I eventually collect on the debt, say the following year, I simply account for those monies on the business tax filings for the period that the monies were actually collected (I'm required to file quarterly statements) and pay the appropriate business taxes on that money.

I would also like to point out that a charge off doesn't help the creditor, other than to reduce the creditor's tax liability by a small FRACTION of the lost monies.

Here's an example: IF you owed me $1000 for computer services rendered, stiffed me for the full amount, and I claim that loss on my business records - it would reduce my business taxes by a fraction of that amount -say $5 (don't argue - this is a simplistic example - the actual tax reduction would be a ratio of how much of my total profit compared to the $1000 I'm owed.) I'm still OUT $1000. It's not a tax CREDIT, where my business tax would be reduced by the $1000 you stiffed me. I do not consider money not paid in taxes for money not received, as a credit towards the $1000 that is owed me - neither does the court.

I'm trying to clarify this charge off stuff for folks. I've seen many comments here where folks get upset because some "charged off" debt comes back to haunt them later on.

For what it's worth, I have never sold any debts owed to me and I used a collection agency only once. I forgave a portion of one debt, and have 3 unsatisfied money judgments (2 business related, 1 a private non-business matter.)

Oh, btw, my money judgments were not DEFAULT judgments. The defendants had their say in court.
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#13 Consumer Comment

John from Califon, NJ makes a good point! Here is your answer.

AUTHOR: Steve - (U.S.A.)

It is ILLEGAL for a junk debt buyer or debt collector to issue a 1099 on a bad debt. Period. Get criminal fraud charges filed right away against violators, and file a tax fraud report with the IRS immediately.

A 1099 for a bad debt can ONLY be issued by the creditor who suffered the loss, and ONLY for the tax year in which the loss was incurred.

This means if the charge off was in 2007, the 1099 can ONLY be issued for the 2007 tax year. NOT 2008 or subsequent years.

And, once a 1099 is issued and the loss writeoff and tax deduction has been taken, this debt is considered settled and can NEVER be collected on by anyone.

That is the way it works.


>>>
Submitted: 3/24/2008 5:25:10 PM
Modified: 3/24/2008 7:25:59 PM John
Califon, New Jersey
U.S.A.

Question
Something just occured to me. Why wouldn;t the orignal creditor 1099 the debtor since they are writing it off? Why is the scammer allowed to do it, and at an inflated rate? The debtor did not borrow anything from the scammer, thus NOT making a profit from them who are doling out 1099s.

>>>
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#14 Consumer Suggestion

Charge of is not "forgiven"

AUTHOR: Robert - (U.S.A.)

""Something just occured to me. Why wouldn;t the orignal creditor 1099 the debtor since they are writing it off? Why is the scammer allowed to do it, and at an inflated rate? The debtor did not borrow anything from the scammer, thus NOT making a profit from them who are doling out 1099s.""

A write off is not the same as forgiving the loan. Many folks have a misconception of what a charge off is or does. A charge off is required by law so that a business MUST show the loss of a bad loan/debt INSTEAD of showing it as an asset on their profit/loss statements (receivable.) Many dishonest companies in the past would list "receivables" that where years old to make their company appear more "profitable" or solvent to investers even though they had no intentions of pursuing collections or knew that the debt would never be paid. Can you say Enron or Adelphia?

I have seen statements here on ROR of claims that a write-off (charge off) is to help the debtor - nonsense, nothing further from the truth. The purpose of the charge off requirements (180 days I believe) is to help INVESTORS looking for a business to invest with (WALL STREET.)

When a debt is charged off by a business, the debt is not forgiven even though the debt is declared as a loss for business tax purposes. The business may continue to attempt collection, however most will not - many will mitigate their loss by selling this debt to another business (as we all know.)

The original creditor COULD forgive the debt and submit a 1099 to the IRS, but as you can see, it's more advantageous for the creditor to sell the debt. If the creditor forgives the debt, the creditor gets NOTHING. If the creditor sells the debt, the creditor gets SOMETHING.

I don't like this at all, but it is what it is.

The 1099 is used by a creditor to report an imputed income of a debtor to the IRS when the debt or a portion of the debt is FORGIVEN. This is very important to understand. If you owe me $10,000 and I forgive this debt, the IRS rules that this is imputed income for YOU. I send a 1099 to the IRS to notify them that this debt is FORGIVEN DEBT (can no longer be collected - the debt is absolved) and is no longer a liability for you.

A similar circumstance is when a debt is negotiated as absolved for a lesser amount. If I agree to absolve your $10000 debt to me for $5000, an imputed income of $5000 could be reported for you to the IRS with a 1099.

It's more complicated than this (a gazillion rules/regulations/laws), but I'm trying to present simplistic view of what happens with a charge off.

Hope this helps
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#15 Consumer Comment

Question

AUTHOR: John - (U.S.A.)

Something just occured to me. Why wouldn;t the orignal creditor 1099 the debtor since they are writing it off? Why is the scammer allowed to do it, and at an inflated rate? The debtor did not borrow anything from the scammer, thus NOT making a profit from them who are doling out 1099s.
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#16 Consumer Comment

Advise

AUTHOR: John - (U.S.A.)

If MBNA sold your account to a collection agency PRIOR to accepting your money, then they were not entitled to take/accept your payment and should refund the entire amount. When a firm charges-off a debt and sells it to a collection agency, that means that they have taken a write off on the debt as a total loss....After this point, they cannot accept payments on this debt....Only the collection agency that bought the account can....If MBNA DID in fact sell this debt prior to taking your money, then they are in the wrong.
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#17 Consumer Suggestion

Steven_Jax needs to learn how to read and comprehend! Pay attention!!

AUTHOR: Steve - (U.S.A.)

Steven,

You need to learn how to read EXACTLY what is written, instead of what you think it means. That would avoid alot of problems here. Learn to read.

Also, I know exactly how collection agencies work. I also know skip tracing as I have done it. I have also done collections for a very short time until I found out what lowlife was involved. Therefore, I know exactly what is involved, and how things work.

Furthermore, all of the advice I give here is what I have actually done and got good results from. I'm not just making it up as I go along. The #1 tactic that keeps our country safe is MISINFORMATION. Therefore, misinformation is the best defense against debt collectors.

The act of filling out a credit application with a bogus address in itself is NOT a crime, for several reasons. The first is burden of proof, which is on the creditor. They would have to prove that I purposely gave a bad address and that I then obtained goods or services without intent to pay. Intent is a very hard thing to prove.

Then there is due diligence. The creditor has both the right and the obligation to verify all information on a credit aplication BEFORE issuing credit. If they fail to do this, that is not my fault. Legally.

And, who's to say that "bad address" was really bad? I could split hairs in my favor all day long, and the bottom line is, if no credit was issued, and no money was lost, it would never be an issue. Right?

And, there is no risk of theft and/or identity theft in doing this as if a person is in collections no credit will be issued anyway! Right? Just common sense here. Even if it was issued and someone else fraudulently used it, it is still not my problem! It is legally on them! Once again, no problem, LEGALLY.

Who said anything about "mail forwarding"??? Not me. There is a big difference between filling out a few bogus credit card applications with a bad address, and the act of forwarding your mail to a bogus address. Once again, learn how to read, and comprehend what was actually written.

***Now, here is the BIGGIE!!

WHERE did I say that I got hired back at Tropicana? Please show me that post. I never said or implied that, and that post does not exist. Where did you get that information? Please explain.

FYI...The case[s] with Tropicana are ongoing and I now have legal counsel involved. I am prohibited at this point from making further posts about Tropicana, or the specifics of the case[s] other than status.

So, here is the status. The first case was ruled in my favor last week by USDOL/OFCCP, but has not yet been settled. Negotiations are in the works. The second case is being set for binding arbitration, and I am currently awaiting notification of time and place on that.

I am NOT back to work at Tropicana, and may never be, even if I do win the Arbitration case.

This is all I can say on this issue.

>>>
Steven-Jacksonville wrote:
Submitted: 3/2/2008 4:02:15 PM
Modified: 3/2/2008 4:48:31 PM Steven
Jacksonville, Florida
U.S.A.

Why so rude steve
Just pointing out flaws in your plan. Whether or not you want to admit it when you inquire finance a car or apply for an apartment collection companies can and do have SSN's flagged. So if you are doing anything in your name it will come up and they can then send the old skip tracers after you. If you don't believe this ask around. Don't just take my word for it.

I agree that identity theft is a common problem. It happened to a co worker of mine and he is still having occasional problems. My question is why open yourself up to it even more by sending credit card applications to an old address. You are assuming that the folks that live there now don't have away of finding out information such as your SSN or your mothers maiden name. They could even know what you look like and say that they had your consent to do this (since you did have the mail forwarded to their current residence.

So all this being said why have you gone from giving people real helpful information and submitting con games like this??? Is your employment picture that bad??? I thought you got hired back on at Tropicana. I noticed you haven't written anything more about them. Is that because you had to agree to stop in order to get your job back??

Well thats all for now. Hope you had a great week.
>>>
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#18 Consumer Comment

Wow all these Steve's and lets agree to disagree, to keep it intellectual and gentlmenly

AUTHOR: Justice Once And For All - (U.S.A.)

Per Steve in Jacksonville: Quote: money or other property, and shall by such false statement obtain credit, goods, money or other property, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided
in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083. Quote.

The law as stated above (obtain credit) would indicate that "the person did by false statement obtain credit, goods, money, or other property, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, of the first degree, punishable as provided".

This indicates to me that the credit would have to be approved and obtained, and since Steve from Bradenton, was indicating (I hope) that he provided proper information other than address, (which still leaves it in gray area) and had bad credit there is no chance that the credit would be granted, it would be rejected for a low credit score. Therefore just a rejected application, unless income was inflated, and lies were made for place of employment, which still upon verification, would be rejected.

I'm not so sure a case could be made for a false application unless credit granted, and an old previous address was utilized, "oh, gee, put my old address down,,,,,my error,," however if credit was granted-now then we really have a problem because we would have to delve into the current mortgage crisis, and holy cow, if we had to review all the things put on apps over the last few years by investors on apps for mortgages, sure would be a lot of people going to jail.

Tim, I think we are talking about apples and oranges. Debt settlement and credit counseling are often mixed up, even with the cross use of debt settlement co. and debt consolidation. Debt settlement companies are often referred to as debt consolidation companies these days. However, debt consolidation technichly refers to (or used to, with Mr. Bernanke printing money now, every few months, have to keep up w/all new terminology, as the bills roll off the printing presses) a loan, signature, or a loan backed by collateral. Debt consolidation is being used now, to describe debt settlement companies. Debt settlement, or choose your poison word, debt consolidation companies, utilize trust accounts.

There is one, don't know the relationship, or why, most of these companies use The Rocky Mountanin Bank and Trust, another interesting topic someday, unless someone out there reading this knows why Rocky Mountain has a relationship with all these debt settlement companies. Most Credit Counseling companies do not have a trust account for every individual client to my knowledge. The client sends in the one monthly payment to the credit counseling service, along with their monthly fee, and the the credit counseling service disburses payment to all creditors who have agreed to an arrangement with the counseling service and debtor. There is no trust account in these relationships, for the most part, or to my knowledge. If a creditor has not agreed to an arrangement w/the credit counseling service of course then the debtor would be liable on that debt. However an agreement w/cr.counseling, debtor, and creditor is a contract. Again I think we are talking about different things.

Why the Rocky Mountain Bank and Trust has this relationship with many of these debt settlement companies I do not know. I have been unable to find any negative information about this bank, it is a small bank in a small town in Colorado.

References: www.answersfordebt.com
www.nfcc.org
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#19 Consumer Comment

Why so rude steve

AUTHOR: Steven - (U.S.A.)

Just pointing out flaws in your plan. Whether or not you want to admit it when you inquire finance a car or apply for an apartment collection companies can and do have SSN's flagged. So if you are doing anything in your name it will come up and they can then send the old skip tracers after you. If you don't believe this ask around. Don't just take my word for it.

I agree that identity theft is a common problem. It happened to a co worker of mine and he is still having occasional problems. My question is why open yourself up to it even more by sending credit card applications to an old address. You are assuming that the folks that live there now don't have away of finding out information such as your SSN or your mothers maiden name. They could even know what you look like and say that they had your consent to do this (since you did have the mail forwarded to their current residence.

So all this being said why have you gone from giving people real helpful information and submitting con games like this??? Is your employment picture that bad??? I thought you got hired back on at Tropicana. I noticed you haven't written anything more about them. Is that because you had to agree to stop in order to get your job back??

Well thats all for now. Hope you had a great week.
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#20 Consumer Comment

Steven, your responses are ridiculous!

AUTHOR: Steve - (U.S.A.)

I cut and pasted your silly response below.
See **anotated remarks for my response.

Once again, you are flying way off on a tangent. My statement was simple. It was the art of throwing bottomfeeders off the trail by giving false address on credit applications , which in turn puts a bogus address on the credit bureaus. Just the act of submitting the application will cause that address to be reported. There is no intent of actually getting the card. Even if they do send it and someone uses it, WHO CARES! We are talking about a person so deep in collections there is no way out. So, once again, WHO CARES!!

I have done this, and it works. I even used the address of people I did not like. It was great satisfaction getting them hounded by bottomfeeders. Ex-employers, etc.

>>>
Submitted: 2/18/2008 8:51:18 AM
Modified: 2/18/2008 10:24:30 AM Steven
Jacksonville, Florida
U.S.A.

Not just talking income **[Yes, we are. That is exactly what the law says].**
If you are saying you are living somewhere and paying bills when you are not that is lying about your financial condition. **[No, it is not. What a person's address is has nothing to do with their financial condition].**

Steve forgot to add that you need to have someone else available so that they can have utilities in their name or pay rent under their name. **[What does this have to do with anything?].** Totally irrelevent**There is no need to have anyone else available for anything].***

Creditors can also view activity that is initiated when you activate utilities or have a credit check done prior to moving into an apartment or something of that nature.
So I guess Steve would have to apply to various apartments as well. **Once again, wrong answer! Lets see the alternatives here. Private room rental, week to week rentals like Budget suites, etc, an RV, a tent, the back of my truck, under a bridge! There are lots of options depending on how serious a person is in being invisible.***

***I took 6 month road trip when I walked away from my creditors. And I did it with $34k cash in my hand! I stayed in nice hotels, ate steak and lobster, etc. I had a great time! ON THEM!!***

Submitted: 2/18/2008 5:28:27 PM
Modified: 2/18/2008 10:23:20 PM Steven
Jacksonville, Florida
U.S.A.

You know what would really be bad
Just thought of something kind of funny and would be really fun to think about.

What if the credit card company you provided the old address to turned around and sent a credit card there as well. The only thing being that since you don't live there anymore the people that are currently living there receive the credit card and start using it and make payments for a while then max it out and stop paying.
**Makes no difference at all, I just walked away from a few dozen other accounts, who cares!??**See above** And, those would be easy anyway. Show me my signature.!! OOPS! Not mine! Too bad, so sad.**

How difficult would it be to prove that YOU were not issued the card. I mean you just got signing a statement that you did live there. No doubt you could probably prove fraud and identity theft at some point in time.**I don't have to prove anything! Show me the signatures! Sorry, not mine!

>>>

The bottom line is, until you have actually been there, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Furthermore, laws mean absolutely nothing unless they are enforced. I explout that fact. I don't care what the law says. If it is not enforced it means absolutely NOTHING!

We have 14 MILLION illegal aliens in this country. They are ALL guilty of multiple felonies and NOTHING gets done! You don't think they falsify information to get credit? To rent an apartment, etc? Just having a false ID and/or SS# is up to 2 felonies! Much more serious than anything I have done!

You need a reality check!
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#21 Consumer Suggestion

You know what would really be bad

AUTHOR: Steven - (U.S.A.)

Just thought of something kind of funny and would be really fun to think about.

What if the credit card company you provided the old address to turned around and sent a credit card there as well. The only thing being that since you don't live there anymore the people that are currently living there receive the credit card and start using it and make payments for a while then max it out and stop paying.

How difficult would it be to prove that YOU were not issued the card. I mean you just got signing a statement that you did live there. No doubt you could probably prove fraud and identity theft at some point in time.
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#22 Consumer Suggestion

Not just talking income

AUTHOR: Steven - (U.S.A.)

If you are saying you are living somewhere and paying bills when you are not that is lying about your financial condition.

Steve forgot to add that you need to have someone else available so that they can have utilities in their name or pay rent under their name.

Creditors can also view activity that is initiated when you activate utilities or have a credit check done prior to moving into an apartment or something of that nature.
So I guess Steve would have to apply to various apartments as well.
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#23 Consumer Suggestion

Not just talking income

AUTHOR: Steven - (U.S.A.)

If you are saying you are living somewhere and paying bills when you are not that is lying about your financial condition.

Steve forgot to add that you need to have someone else available so that they can have utilities in their name or pay rent under their name.

Creditors can also view activity that is initiated when you activate utilities or have a credit check done prior to moving into an apartment or something of that nature.
So I guess Steve would have to apply to various apartments as well.
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#24 Consumer Suggestion

Not just talking income

AUTHOR: Steven - (U.S.A.)

If you are saying you are living somewhere and paying bills when you are not that is lying about your financial condition.

Steve forgot to add that you need to have someone else available so that they can have utilities in their name or pay rent under their name.

Creditors can also view activity that is initiated when you activate utilities or have a credit check done prior to moving into an apartment or something of that nature.
So I guess Steve would have to apply to various apartments as well.
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#25 Consumer Suggestion

Not just talking income

AUTHOR: Steven - (U.S.A.)

If you are saying you are living somewhere and paying bills when you are not that is lying about your financial condition.

Steve forgot to add that you need to have someone else available so that they can have utilities in their name or pay rent under their name.

Creditors can also view activity that is initiated when you activate utilities or have a credit check done prior to moving into an apartment or something of that nature.
So I guess Steve would have to apply to various apartments as well.
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#26 Consumer Comment

Steve is right

AUTHOR: Stacey - (U.S.A.)

Tim you may be an attorney but I think you are not in the business of suing low life debt collectors -
My attorney is and what my attorney suggests is just pretty much what Steve says
I am in the process of suing a collection agency that violated every single rule the Fair Credit Act said was illegal ie: taking me to jail, getting me fired, having my parents arrested, confiscating my office computer and shutting the office down, garnishing my wages etc etc

I received notice from my attorney today that opposing counsel will not meet for pre trial motions and his client will not show for the jury trial that defendent asked for.
These are how these bottom feeders work regardless if the debt is out of the Statute of Limitations or if the debt is paid

I have dealt with Accept Acceptance over a old debt that was paid and to this day (after sending them the proper documents on advise from my attorney)
they call my looking for my Grandfather who passed in 4/2000
Do not talk to a third party debt collector!
Get informed
Go to www.budhibbs.com
He has a list of alll the scumbags who try to get your money so they can get their fat commissions
Stacey
ps - under www.budhibbs.com go to maurader exposed
See what kinda idiot I am suing
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#27 Consumer Comment

Steve is right

AUTHOR: Stacey - (U.S.A.)

Tim you may be an attorney but I think you are not in the business of suing low life debt collectors -
My attorney is and what my attorney suggests is just pretty much what Steve says
I am in the process of suing a collection agency that violated every single rule the Fair Credit Act said was illegal ie: taking me to jail, getting me fired, having my parents arrested, confiscating my office computer and shutting the office down, garnishing my wages etc etc

I received notice from my attorney today that opposing counsel will not meet for pre trial motions and his client will not show for the jury trial that defendent asked for.
These are how these bottom feeders work regardless if the debt is out of the Statute of Limitations or if the debt is paid

I have dealt with Accept Acceptance over a old debt that was paid and to this day (after sending them the proper documents on advise from my attorney)
they call my looking for my Grandfather who passed in 4/2000
Do not talk to a third party debt collector!
Get informed
Go to www.budhibbs.com
He has a list of alll the scumbags who try to get your money so they can get their fat commissions
Stacey
ps - under www.budhibbs.com go to maurader exposed
See what kinda idiot I am suing
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#28 Consumer Comment

Steve is right

AUTHOR: Stacey - (U.S.A.)

Tim you may be an attorney but I think you are not in the business of suing low life debt collectors -
My attorney is and what my attorney suggests is just pretty much what Steve says
I am in the process of suing a collection agency that violated every single rule the Fair Credit Act said was illegal ie: taking me to jail, getting me fired, having my parents arrested, confiscating my office computer and shutting the office down, garnishing my wages etc etc

I received notice from my attorney today that opposing counsel will not meet for pre trial motions and his client will not show for the jury trial that defendent asked for.
These are how these bottom feeders work regardless if the debt is out of the Statute of Limitations or if the debt is paid

I have dealt with Accept Acceptance over a old debt that was paid and to this day (after sending them the proper documents on advise from my attorney)
they call my looking for my Grandfather who passed in 4/2000
Do not talk to a third party debt collector!
Get informed
Go to www.budhibbs.com
He has a list of alll the scumbags who try to get your money so they can get their fat commissions
Stacey
ps - under www.budhibbs.com go to maurader exposed
See what kinda idiot I am suing
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#29 Consumer Suggestion

To Tim and Steven...The point is being missed here entirely.

AUTHOR: Steve - (U.S.A.)

Tim,

No hard feelings at all. You are simply wrong. As are many lawyers. Just because you are a lawyer, does not know you mean everything. The proof of this is that I have represented myself several times and won! What does that say for the alleged "lawyers"? They were morons!

First of all, I personally do not consider a misdemeanor to be a "crime". Thats a joke. Felonies are what I speak of.

Second, applying for a credit card that you know there is no way in hell you would get it, would never result in the card actually being issued.

***And, I never said anything about falsifying anything to do with your assets or income, DID I?

No, I clearly stated only giving a fake address. That is NOT included in the statute Steven posted.

>>>>
As Usual Steve in Bradenton wrong again
It is indeed illegal to provide false information on a loan application. It is a misdeameanor though. Looks like they tack it on incase you actually gain from providing the false info.

The 2007 Florida Statutes

Title XLVI
CRIMES Chapter 817
FRAUDULENT PRACTICES View Entire Chapter

817.03 Making false statement to obtain property or credit.
--Any person who shall make or cause to be made any false statement, in writing, relating to his or her financial condition, assets or liabilities, or relating to the financial condition,assets or liabilities of any firm or corporation in which such person has a financial interest, or for whom he or she is acting, with a fraudulent intent of obtaining credit, goods,
money or other property, and shall by such false statement obtain credit, goods, money or other property, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided
in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

History.--s. 1, ch. 5134, 1903; RS 3322; s. 1, ch. 6869, 1915; RGS 5160; CGL 7263; s. 843, ch. 71-136; s. 1245, ch. 97-102.

>>>

The fact is, the burden of proof is on the creditor that you provided a false address, and the burden of proof is also on them to prove that you intended to engage in fraud.

This is the point you geniuses are missing here.

FYI...I have done this many times without a problem. Therefore it is safe to assume it works.

If a crime were committed, I sureley would have been charged, right?

>>>

What I'm speaking of is the real world here. What is done in the REAL WORLD. Not some obscure law you pull from the books that has never been prosecuted.

Get a life.
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#30 Consumer Suggestion

As Usual Steve in Bradenton wrong again

AUTHOR: Steven - (U.S.A.)

It is indeed illegal to provide false information on a loan application. It is a misdeameanor though. Looks like they tack it on incase you actually gain from providing the false info.

The 2007 Florida Statutes

Title XLVI
CRIMES Chapter 817
FRAUDULENT PRACTICES View Entire Chapter

817.03 Making false statement to obtain property or credit.
--Any person who shall make or cause to be made any false statement, in writing, relating to his or her financial condition, assets or liabilities, or relating to the financial condition,assets or liabilities of any firm or corporation in which such person has a financial interest, or for whom he or she is acting, with a fraudulent intent of obtaining credit, goods,
money or other property, and shall by such false statement obtain credit, goods, money or other property, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided
in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

History.--s. 1, ch. 5134, 1903; RS 3322; s. 1, ch. 6869, 1915; RGS 5160; CGL 7263; s. 843, ch. 71-136; s. 1245, ch. 97-102.

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#31 Consumer Suggestion

Here's how the creditor can "jump in."

AUTHOR: Tim - (U.S.A.)

Justice,

I will try to anser your inquiry as best I can. And I would be more than happy to clear things up if you still have any questions.

You asked (paraphrasing) "how does a collector 'jump in' and take money held by a credit counselor to pay off a debt owed by one of its clients, where said debt is subject to an existing payment agreement?"

Let me know if I got that wrong.

Here's how it's done. The credit counselor is an agent for the debtor. IF such is the scenario, and I've never seen it otherwise, then the credit counselor holds funds in trust, for the benefit of the debtor, to pay off creditors.

In legal terms, once the debtor turns over money to the credit counselor, the credit counselor becomes indebted to the debtor. He "owes" the debtor the money that the debtor aid him, and he pays the debtor back by paying off the debtor's creditors.

With that out of the way, here's how an aggressive creditor "jumps in" and gets his hands on that money:

1) He either already has, or he gets a judgment against the debtor.

2) Once he has the judgment, he can file for a writ of garnishment to take or intercept funds that other entities owe the debtor. For example, after you do a week's work, your employer is indebted to you for your wages. A garnishment order tellss the employer that, instead of paying you all of your money, some of that money has to go to the "judgment creditor."

The same applies with bank accounts, tax refunds, and sometimes even social security benefits. And it can also apply to credit counselors, debt managers, and anybody else that is holding money for the benefit of the debtor.

The existing agreement with the other creditor is irrelevant. If he has a judgment, he can do the same thing. If he doesn't have a judgment, his rights are basically subordinated to those of the judgment creditor.

I hope that made sense. And you're right, most creditors dealing with "small potatoes" debts aren't going to do this. But if your creditor is a small potatoes law firm trying to show potential clients that it will act aggressively on your behalf, I think you get my picture.

Best regards, and thank you for your added insight.
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#32 Consumer Suggestion

One way to combat these guys

AUTHOR: Kmmp - (U.S.A.)

Everyone who has had this kind of interaction with Creditor's Interchange needs to go the New York Attorney General's website. Print out a General Complaint form and fill it out....then mail it!

In 2002 the Attorney General of New York issued a New York Assurance of Discontinuance Against Creditor's Interchange. Fed up with their collection antics, they are not allowed to do it anymore! Each violation will cost them $30,000! You can read the document itself by going to Attorney Bud Hibb's website.

Good luck and lets all get these guys on the run!

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#33 Consumer Suggestion

Tim How do you "jump in" on signed agreements - unless they are speaking of $ in trust after?

AUTHOR: Justice Once And For All - (U.S.A.)

Pre charge off credit counseling often require signed agreements. How do you Jump in if there is a pre arranged contract, creditor agrees, before setting up account. You must be speaking about debt settlement companies? Nationally endorsed www.nfcc.org member and with certification would not set up trust account w/o signed agreement. I agree, big balances long payoff times forget it, go bankrupt, but if a trust balance has a small amount in it what are you jumping in on?

Credit counseling for small amounts of debt is a viable option for honest people, with steady jobs, and good counseling agencies don't set up trust agreements unless they have signed agreements.........

I was hoping you'd be more detailed. Collection agencies let these agreements sit, and take their payments passively, if they are steady and continual.
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#34 Consumer Suggestion

Advice and some words for Steve

AUTHOR: Tim - (U.S.A.)

My old pal Steve from Bradenton,

I advise you to remember one thing: you are not an attorney, and you do not have any education in the law other than your real life experiences.

Now, let me state that your methods are ingenious. But they are not entirely legal. I will get to that in a bit.

Just as you are not an attorney, I suspect that the purported attorney to which you were responding was not an attorney either.

Any attorney who regularly deals with creditor/debtor law will tell you to steer clear of credit counseling agencies. The long and short of it is that, if you are at the point where you are considering credit counseling, you are probably better off filing bankruptcy. In fact, 85% of people who enter into a credit counseling program will fail out, and such programs usually do more damage to your credit than bankruptcy.

Further, my partner is a debt collector. We run both sides of the fence: he collects the debts, I get rid of them. And here's what my partner does whenever we get a letter from a credit counseling agency: the letter itself basically serves as notice that the agency is holding money for the benefit of the debtor. If we already have a judgment against the debtor, we immediately garnish all of the funds in the hands of the agency. So the agency may have set up all of these agreements with various creditors, but none of them will fly because we will hop in and snag everything in the trust account.

So STAY FAR AWAY from credit counseling agencies. If you're at the point where you're considering using one, consider bankruptcy instead. If you're in Northern Indiana or Western Michigan, consider Tim from Valparaiso for your bankruptcy needs :-)

Now back to Steve.

Credit itself is an asset, whether you use it or not. If you supply false information to secure credit, you are in violation of federal and, I would imagine in most cases, state laws. Just because you have never been busted doesn't mean that what you are doing isn't illegal. I stole roughly 40 cartons of cigarettes from our local grocery store before I ever got caught. That doesn't mean that the first 39 larcenies were legal (BTW, this was 20 years ago).

That's really the only issue I have with your advice. I have no qualms with avoiding creditors these days, as most of them are scumbags to begin with, and they tend to get what they deserve in such cases.

Just remember: only time can cure your credit ills. If you choose to dodge your creditors, feel free to do so. But you will suffer some consequences as a result. If the economic value of those consequences is less than the economic value of paying off your debt, then go for it. Otherwise, I would advise that you look to sources other than Steve for credit advice.

No hard feelings Steve, right? I've always enjoyed your presence!
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#35 Consumer Suggestion

Agree w/Steve from Bradenton-Just one thing though!

AUTHOR: Justice Once And For All - (U.S.A.)

I agree w/Steve - w/everything you say, but one. Credit counseling can be ok, if the debt is really not that high, and the person has a short time period to pay them off. Some people have the capacity, and do want to do this, feel morally motivated. An honest credit counseling company will tell you forget it, file baknkruptcy like www.nfcc.org, if the timeline is too long, there are others, right, that are ripoffs. I do however agree that if you are referring to settlement companies they are a ripoff. If small balances and short payoff time, then honest credit counseling service, thru non profits are ok.
Eles on all the other things I agree.
References nfcc.org
e book answersfordebt.com
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#36 Consumer Suggestion

Steven-Gibsonton, your information is not correct.

AUTHOR: Steve - (U.S.A.)

Steven,

It is NOT a felony to fill out a credit application with a bad address.

It is a felony to OBTAIN credit with an intent to defraud. This means that you would have to actually obtain the credit, and then use it without intent to pay.

It is perfectly legal to fill out a credit application with a bad address on it. FYI..The company has the obligation to verify your information prior to issuing the new card/ or account.

It is called due diligence. If they fail to use it, that is on them.

And, there is no such thing as a "refusal to pay" in regards to credit bureau reporting.

Your account is either current, delinquent, in collections, charged off or included in BK. Those are the only options for credit reporting. That "refusal to pay" thing was devised by debt collectors to intimidate uneducated people.

NONE of my tactics are illegal. Guaranteed. Otherwise, I surely would have been charged with a crime by now, as I have been using them all for years.

Please tell me exactly what tactic is illegal, and then post the applicable law here to prove it.

FYI... Credit counseling services are a joke and a scam. They are just bill collectors for the bank. They cannot do anything for you that you cannot do for yourself, and you need to be at least 90 days delinquent before ANY credit card co will negotiate your debt.

Furthermore, there is absolutely no reason to pay a POST CHARGE OFF debt. The money will not go to those who actually suffered the loss, and making that post charge off payment will actually hurt your credit more than just letting it go.

And, non profit credit counseling companies are prohibited by law to do debt collections. This is not thier purpose anyway. FYI..ANYONE other than the original creditor is a third party and is bound by the FDCPA. I don't know where you got your information, but you are dead wrong, and have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

These are the facts.


>>>>
Steven
Gibsonville, North Carolina
U.S.A.

Reference to Steve from Bradenton's comments
While Steve may offer some valid points in his description of how to avoid bill collectors, there are several things that you simply should not do. For starters, he is correct, you cannot go to jail for not paying your debts. However, all states have a part of their general statutes entitled 'Cheats and Fraud', or some similar terminology. In this statute, there are several things you need to be aware of.

To begin with, DO NOT fill out credit applications with a former address. This is a felony in every state. Being an attorney in North Carolina, I can only comment on our specific laws. Filling out a credit application with information you know to be false is, again, a felony.

Now in terms of cheats. Many states have added substantial segments of these statutes dealing with credit card fraud. In almost any state, it is illegal to knowingly exceed an established credit limit in an attempt to defraud a financial institution.


While I think some of Steve's tactics are either illegal or bordering on such, some are valid. No, you do not have to talk to a debt collector. However, this does not make your debt go away. Regardless, they have the legal right to report your refusal to pay to the credit bureaus.

My suggestion is two-fold. First, you should attempt to settle your debts before it gets to this point. Second, enlist the help of a non-profit credit counseling service. These services are very helpful and are not a loan. Rather, they provide representatives to work with your creditors to lower your payments and collect and distribute those payments for you. However, be careful in this instance. Non-profit credit counseling services are exempt from the FDCPA, so they may contact you at any time to collect payment and you cannot request that they stop contacting you.

Hope this helps.
>>>>
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#37 Consumer Suggestion

Educatin and knowledge the key to avoiding harassment - info available

AUTHOR: Justice Once And For All - (U.S.A.)

In regard to a collection agency the first thing they are required to do is send a letter asking you if you dispute the debt. They often violate this part of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, especially on small balances.

Download the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, and always keep a copy, as the industry, since factoring has become so prevalent, in need of new regulations.

Settlements are a viable option. Try to settle accounts prior to charge off, but agencies are usually open to settlements. You must first get a letter from them in writing that the settlement is acceptable. Then remit. Get letter that account is paid, submit letter to Trans Union, Experian, and Equifax, yourself, if whomever you made the settlement with has not reported the settlement. Settlements taxable, but different situations, depending on children in household, income etc.

Always submit return receipt requested letter to agency to only communicate with you by mail only. If after they receive that letter, they call you, they have violated the law. Always report violations to both the attorney general of your state, as well as the Federal Trade Commission. Reason is whichever law is more strict will apply, and some state regulations are more strict then the federal laws.

A tape recording on answering machine advising bill collectors to not call, or leave a message is effective. If they leave a message after the recording, you have a tape that they were asked not to contact you, and did, right on tape.

References National foundation for credit counseling www.nfcc.org
www.answersfordebt.com
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#38 Consumer Suggestion

Educatin and knowledge the key to avoiding harassment - info available

AUTHOR: Justice Once And For All - (U.S.A.)

In regard to a collection agency the first thing they are required to do is send a letter asking you if you dispute the debt. They often violate this part of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, especially on small balances.

Download the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, and always keep a copy, as the industry, since factoring has become so prevalent, in need of new regulations.

Settlements are a viable option. Try to settle accounts prior to charge off, but agencies are usually open to settlements. You must first get a letter from them in writing that the settlement is acceptable. Then remit. Get letter that account is paid, submit letter to Trans Union, Experian, and Equifax, yourself, if whomever you made the settlement with has not reported the settlement. Settlements taxable, but different situations, depending on children in household, income etc.

Always submit return receipt requested letter to agency to only communicate with you by mail only. If after they receive that letter, they call you, they have violated the law. Always report violations to both the attorney general of your state, as well as the Federal Trade Commission. Reason is whichever law is more strict will apply, and some state regulations are more strict then the federal laws.

A tape recording on answering machine advising bill collectors to not call, or leave a message is effective. If they leave a message after the recording, you have a tape that they were asked not to contact you, and did, right on tape.

References National foundation for credit counseling www.nfcc.org
www.answersfordebt.com
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#39 Consumer Suggestion

Educatin and knowledge the key to avoiding harassment - info available

AUTHOR: Justice Once And For All - (U.S.A.)

In regard to a collection agency the first thing they are required to do is send a letter asking you if you dispute the debt. They often violate this part of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, especially on small balances.

Download the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, and always keep a copy, as the industry, since factoring has become so prevalent, in need of new regulations.

Settlements are a viable option. Try to settle accounts prior to charge off, but agencies are usually open to settlements. You must first get a letter from them in writing that the settlement is acceptable. Then remit. Get letter that account is paid, submit letter to Trans Union, Experian, and Equifax, yourself, if whomever you made the settlement with has not reported the settlement. Settlements taxable, but different situations, depending on children in household, income etc.

Always submit return receipt requested letter to agency to only communicate with you by mail only. If after they receive that letter, they call you, they have violated the law. Always report violations to both the attorney general of your state, as well as the Federal Trade Commission. Reason is whichever law is more strict will apply, and some state regulations are more strict then the federal laws.

A tape recording on answering machine advising bill collectors to not call, or leave a message is effective. If they leave a message after the recording, you have a tape that they were asked not to contact you, and did, right on tape.

References National foundation for credit counseling www.nfcc.org
www.answersfordebt.com
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#40 Consumer Suggestion

Educatin and knowledge the key to avoiding harassment - info available

AUTHOR: Justice Once And For All - (U.S.A.)

In regard to a collection agency the first thing they are required to do is send a letter asking you if you dispute the debt. They often violate this part of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, especially on small balances.

Download the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, and always keep a copy, as the industry, since factoring has become so prevalent, in need of new regulations.

Settlements are a viable option. Try to settle accounts prior to charge off, but agencies are usually open to settlements. You must first get a letter from them in writing that the settlement is acceptable. Then remit. Get letter that account is paid, submit letter to Trans Union, Experian, and Equifax, yourself, if whomever you made the settlement with has not reported the settlement. Settlements taxable, but different situations, depending on children in household, income etc.

Always submit return receipt requested letter to agency to only communicate with you by mail only. If after they receive that letter, they call you, they have violated the law. Always report violations to both the attorney general of your state, as well as the Federal Trade Commission. Reason is whichever law is more strict will apply, and some state regulations are more strict then the federal laws.

A tape recording on answering machine advising bill collectors to not call, or leave a message is effective. If they leave a message after the recording, you have a tape that they were asked not to contact you, and did, right on tape.

References National foundation for credit counseling www.nfcc.org
www.answersfordebt.com
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#41 Consumer Suggestion

What happened to the settlement w/MBNA-did you not get it in writing? Agency has broken law!

AUTHOR: Justice Once And For All - (U.S.A.)

You stated that you made a settlement w/MBNA. If so why does this collection agency have this debt, BTW, it is factored, purchased and farmed out to the agency for a percentage, so you can understand what is happening.

>If you made the settlement w/MBNA, and have a record of the settlement, by way of a confirmation letter, submission to collection agency should be sufficient to stop them from VIOLATING SEVERAL PARTS OF THE FAIR DEBT COLLECTION PRACTICES ACT.

>All you have to do under this law is submit a letter return receipt requested do not contact me in any manner again by phone, the law then demands they only contact you by letter.

>I,m surprised your attorney did not advise you to write said letter and refer you to this law. Under this law anything said to them by you that is perceived by you as annoying, or harassment, is a violation of the law.

>This Co. I believe headquaterd in Buffalo, has several offices around the country, do not think, in general, they are real violators, but they have broken several laws, in this matter, if occurred. Saying they will contact your supervisor, is a violation of the law. Matter of fact anything they say verbally and do not do is a violation of the law, these companies biggest violation is usually threat of suit,they don't sue, and that is a violation.

>Immediatly put them on notice, not only not to contact you any further except by mail, but that you are making a complaint to the Attorney General of your state.
Follow thru and make a complaint to not only the state attorney general, but the Federal Trade Commission. If they are fined, and they probably will, you may get part of, the fine. Whichever law is more strict, state, or Federal will be applicable, some states have stronger laws then the federal government. What you describe are flagrant violations of the FDCPA, as described above. I would also order your credit bureau report, if you made a just and legal settlement w/MBNA, it should be on the cr. bureau as SIF bal 0. SIF is settled in full. I am shocked at what you describe, flagrant violations of the law, you can type Fair Debt Collection Practices act in your browser and see the extent of the violations,

>Still what happened to the settlement made at MBNA? Never make a verbal settlement, must have it in writing before remitting, then get letter account is settled, wait usually three months should be at credit bureau as settled, if not remit letter to credit bureaus. Settlements are taxable depending on your situation, but are well worth it.
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#42 Consumer Comment

Reference to Steve from Bradenton's comments

AUTHOR: Steven - (U.S.A.)

While Steve may offer some valid points in his description of how to avoid bill collectors, there are several things that you simply should not do. For starters, he is correct, you cannot go to jail for not paying your debts. However, all states have a part of their general statutes entitled "Cheats and Fraud", or some similar terminology. In this statute, there are several things you need to be aware of.

To begin with, DO NOT fill out credit applications with a former address. This is a felony in every state. Being an attorney in North Carolina, I can only comment on our specific laws. Filling out a credit application with information you know to be false is, again, a felony.

Now in terms of cheats. Many states have added substantial segments of these statutes dealing with credit card fraud. In almost any state, it is illegal to knowingly exceed an established credit limit in an attempt to defraud a financial institution.


While I think some of Steve's tactics are either illegal or bordering on such, some are valid. No, you do not have to talk to a debt collector. However, this does not make your debt go away. Regardless, they have the legal right to report your refusal to pay to the credit bureaus.

My suggestion is two-fold. First, you should attempt to settle your debts before it gets to this point. Second, enlist the help of a non-profit credit counseling service. These services are very helpful and are not a loan. Rather, they provide representatives to work with your creditors to lower your payments and collect and distribute those payments for you. However, be careful in this instance. Non-profit credit counseling services are exempt from the FDCPA, so they may contact you at any time to collect payment and you cannot request that they stop contacting you.

Hope this helps.
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#43 Consumer Suggestion

The REAL way to "DEAL" with Collection agencies...

AUTHOR: Steve - (U.S.A.)

DON'T!!

There is no reason to ever communicate with any third party collector. It will never do anything positive for you. NOTHING. Any communication will make it worse for you and possibly cause you to unknowingly re-affirm or validate a debt that otherwise might have been uncollectable.

Here is what you do to throw them off your trail.

1. Change your phone # IMMEDIATELY to an unlisted one. You can get this done for FREE if you call your phone company and make complaints of harrassment and obscene calls from an UNKNOWN caller.

2. Any mail you get without a name on the return address area, is from a debt collector. Therfore, DO NOT even open it! Mark one line diagonally through the to address on the envelope and mark it "Not at this address"..."Return to sender"..and then drive by one of the big blue mailboxes and drop it in..

This is the first round of being invisible.

Now, get a private mailbox at a UPS store, or the like and FORWARD your mail to it. This will make it appear that you have moved. Now, take any names off of your house and mailbox or anywhere else in your yard or driveway. Put up NO SOLICITING and NO TRESPASSING signs, as well as BEWARE of DOG signs.

When you sign for the private mailbox, do not use your actual address, use an old address if still in the same area or just make one up. They don't need your address as they put renewal notices in your box.

Now to further throw them off, fill out 2 or 3 credit applications in an old address that you lived at like 3-5 years ago or more. then do a mail forwarding in your name only from that address to your HOME address, which wil in turn get re-forwarded to your private mailbox! There is a very important reason for doing it this way.

The reason is that that old bogus address will now be reported to the credit reporting agencies as your CURRENT address! The bonehead collectors will be looking in the wrong place!

This is absolutely beautiful and it works! I do it every 6 months.

Well, my secret is out, or at least one of them anyway. You will have to wait for my book to come out to get the rest of them!

Have fun with these morons!
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#44 Consumer Comment

Contact the NY Attorney General NOW!

AUTHOR: Delores - (U.S.A.)

You need to contact them, and DO NOT WAIT. I have very recently resolved an issue with them (see Creditors Interchange thread, Damon was misrepresenting himself, AND this guy CHANGED the outgoing message on my cell phone!). I went online, found an agreement that they'd signed with the AG in 2003 because they were allowing these tactics before, taped the message Damon created and filed a formal complaint. He has in fact been terminated and C.I. is very much under some pressure right now to get out from under their noses. Keep the pressure on.

I have been working with AG Judity Gentry-Smith and her e-mail is Judith.Gentry-Smith@oag.state.ny.us.
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#45 Consumer Comment

how to deal with collection agencies

AUTHOR: L - (U.S.A.)

First and foremost, it is ILLEGAL for any collection agency to threaten or harrass you. Very few people realize that the Fair debt collection practices act (FDCPA) was put into place to prevent collection agencies from doing this sort of thing. They CANNOT go to you commander and turn you in. They cannot divulge any personal info to anyone other than you and those you want to know about your debt unless they are a co-signer.

I have worked in collections for years (skiptracing) and got out of it because I hated what they did to people. From what I have heard, Creditors is famous for their terrorist tactics.

Secondly, you must have a copy of your paid in full account. Send a copy of that to Creditors. If you do not have that, get a letter from MBNA and send a copy to Creditors.

Thirdly, record or keep a record of every phone call, name, #, date and time and what was said by Creditors. They are only allowed 1 (one) call per day between the hours of 8am and 9pm (your local time) any more and it is considered harrassment - even if they just leave a message! Tell them the debt has been paid, you need a fax # to send them proof and to who's attention should you send it? tell them you want confirmation of receipt. If thy do not comply you will report them to the Attorney general's office here in buffalo, NY (Elliot Spitzer - who is runnign for governor btw) furthermore, you can still file a complaint w/ the attorney generals office and they can be charged a fine for EACH infraction!

here is the link for the NYS attorney general - I hope this helps - good luck!

oag.state.ny.us/consumer/tips
/debt_collectors.html
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