• Report: #41688

Complaint Review: DSMax, AKA Granton Marketing AKA Cydcor AKA Signal Marketing Systems AKA CK & Associates

  • Submitted: Thu, January 16, 2003
  • Updated: Sat, January 15, 2005

  • Reported By:Clayton North Carolina
DSMax, AKA Granton Marketing AKA Cydcor AKA Signal Marketing Systems AKA CK & Associates
1001 Navaho Dr, Suite 102 Raleigh, North Carolina U.S.A.

DSMax AKA Granton Marketing AKA CydcorDSMax, AKA Cydcor AKA Signal Marketing Systems AKA CK & Associates Pyramid-Style SCAM Raleigh North Carolina

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Mr. Colintonio, how right!!!

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Sad Story

*UPDATE Employee: This is coming from a vp who is about to quit

*UPDATE Employee: This is coming from a vp who is about to quit

*UPDATE Employee: This is coming from a vp who is about to quit

*UPDATE Employee: This is coming from a vp who is about to quit

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: What leaders should know, but manager won't tell them

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Advertising merch? Also, I thank God literally, that it was only DsScam!!!

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: you take the good with the bad

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: $540.00 a week + 72 hours of work = $7.48 an hour! If that's good money, sign me up!

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: $100 a day now and millions tomorrow?

*UPDATE Employee: 19 years old making very good money... im getting ready to ... with my manager and the other top distributor

*Consumer Comment: Thank you Todd for educating Shane on the world of Communism, your educated and well spoken response is the image that America needs!

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: destroying the lives of thousands of people every year

*Consumer Comment: TAKE YOUR COMMUNIST a*s SOMEWHERE ELSE.

*UPDATE Employee: Stop talking crap

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: statue of limitations on sexual harassment is seven years.

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: DS-Max is really just cheap labor, warehousing, and distribution of crappy products

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: In Defense of DSMAX

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: GIVE ME A BREAK

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: JUST WAIT...

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: JUST WAIT...

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: get over your selves

*UPDATE Employee: THE BEST OPPORTUNITY I HAVE EVER SEEN

*Consumer Comment: NOT FOR EVERYONE

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: It's the same Nichole

*Author of original report: sincerest apologies to the folks at CK

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: you would be so surprized...

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The more motivated, hard-working, confident, and comfortable with risk you are, the more this company will appeal to you, and the more you will be interested. DON"T FALL FOR IT!

None of the individuals I spoke to associated with this office gave me a last name. One "manager" repeatedly referred to his age as 24, which I found hard to believe. This individual claimed to have been with the company one year, but had nothing to substantiate this claim. The other "manager" had supposedly dropped out of school, so that her story would make sense to make her around 24.

No proof was ever offered by any individual of legitimacy. No tax forms were filled out. No references were checked.

I showed up at a rinky-dink office in reponse to a telephone call at my home. These scam artists got my number from monster.com, where I had sent a resume to them based on an ad calling for "the best of the best".

I was given a quick resume-review style interview, along with another young individual. The other individual was rushed out, but the interviewer "advanced" me to a second interview.

I was told to report the next morning with good shoes and professional dress. I had no idea that what I would be doing was door-to-door "marketing"!

I "observed" a young lady who had been with the company 6 weeks. A hard worker, and a former teacher like myself. She explained to me the pyramid structure, and we discussed our goals and aspirations, and how making the money supposedly offered would get us closer to our goals.

When I returned to the office, I filled out a questionnaire and was given a third "interview". Congratulations, Nicole! We want you to come back tomorrow!

Good thing I asked about who the parent company was, so that I could do my research! That brought me here.

I do not believe any of the company "rebuttals" posted here. I do not believe that they are individuals who went through the "pyramid" steps by beginning as a distrubutor, becoming a leader, becoming an assistant manager.

Nicole
Clayton, North Carolina
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 01/16/2003 05:54 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/DSMax-AKA-Granton-Marketing-AKA-Cydcor-AKA-Signal-Marketing-Systems-AKA-CK-Associates/Raleigh-North-Carolina/DSMax-AKA-Granton-Marketing-AKA-CydcorDSMax-AKA-Cydcor-AKA-Signal-Marketing-Systems-AKA-C-41688. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

Ripoff Report has an exclusive license to this report. It may not be copied without the written permission of Ripoff Report.

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#1 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Mr. Colintonio, how right!!!

AUTHOR: BRIAN - (U.S.A.)

I just want to say thank you Derick(assuming you did write this), for having enough balls to lay it all out there. If any one is wondering about this VP, and his creditability, or his dedication to his business, our his validity of his comments. Believe me he is telling the truth.(If you don't know who Derrick is in terms of Granton, lets just say, he's one of the best promoting tools for PG, and LT, and their example of how to succeed in the program.

My name is Brian G, I started in the Advertising division in San Diego back in 1998, and was with Granton for 5 years. One of my early partners in the Bay Area(Jeff) was someone who knew Derrick pretty well, and even Derricks outside deal VP Jesse Young "The over promoted Brown Graduate" who switched to the clearence division for LT.

My old partner would tell me stories about how he knew VP's didn't make the money they promoted, he said Mike Putnam wasn't even making money,(Putnam is VP Mark Kernans promoting manager, and Kernan is Derrick promoting manager. I remember him telling me Derrick didn't even get a credit card until he was a VP, and I believe it was a secured card because his credit was so jacked after being in the business for so long ( don't worry Derrick my credit still is). Either way, I'm happy Derrick wised up to the fact that the only people making money are the people at Granton, and a very, very select few owners and VP's

I was an owner with 2 deals when I quit because I found out my VP was lying to me too (My VP was really a good guy, he was a decent example of the business, but like Derrick, he had no choice but to lie to me( I honestly don't think he thought he was lying, I think he thought he was motivating me). Its the same where ever you go, it doesn't matter what division your in, in order to keep your business going, you have to keep telling the same stories to motivate your deals( even though deep down you know they aren't going to make the money you told them they could). The old don't worry your going to make money speech, even though your not making money either.

But fortunatly for me I saw my promoting manager/VP's finacial one day and he was negitive $100,000 in head office. So I called him up to see if we would tell me if I asked seriously,(of course I didn't mention I already knew he was negitive) but he told me he had plenty of money in head office and in his bank account, and once again he told me not to worry. Then I said how come every manager I know, has no money in the bank or is negitive in Head office, and he said I needed to talk to more people in other organization, because people in different areas all make money, but I knew that wasn't true either because I would call them too.(except Brad Rice in Utah, were on a road trip my guys would go out and do 20 peices before lunch, but in every other market where I knew people, no one was making money. So, before I knew it, he was doing what I would always do, which was tell me to focus on where I was going, focus on becoming a regional, and don't worry you'll make plenty of money soon. But of course I knew he was lying to me, so thats when I knew it was time to leave the business

Not to metion, I also went through the field with a friend of mine who spearheaded the growth in Mexico and other spanish speaking places and he became a VP too("Matty"). unfortunatly, I know for a fact at the time, he did't make the money that was promoted either, although I hope he is now.

The problem with Granton is, the business is not what it used to be. Sure you can make money, but how the business is structured, you end up having to lose it, you make money, you lose money. The product supply of Granton Marketing is inconsistant, and the only people making "REAL" money are Meriash and the people at the top of the food chain like Paul and Larry

For the amount of time you invest with this company, you could even work at a minimum wage job, and still make more money if you put the same amount of time in. The company did teach me an increadible work ethic, and optimistic attitude to match, but after five years of working with Granton, and paying in over $600,000 for merch and lister fees, I ended up with the short end of the stick(thats a lot of money to pay a company who supplies you product, especially when you are doing all the work with your guys to sell enough just to scrap by, after all its just printed paper).

If your contemplating leaving, let me just say, that it is not as hard as you think it is to do. Look at the people in your office, look at the managers, does he or she really make money, or does he or she just wear a nice suit and talk a big game(after all Managers do know how to sell, they did go through the field). Look at the leaders, have they been around too long( if so your manager might be pretty weak becausehe dependes on them too much), are they spinning their wheels, look at the time they invest, look at the amount of peices the office is moving, are they making money, do the math. Odds are they are not! Doctors make a $100,000+ a year, look what they drive, and look where they live. I'm sure you will see a difference if you come to your senses( not to mention the student loans doctors have to pay back)
If you do leave, take it as good learning experience and use the skills you have developed to aquire a better position which you deserve.
Best of luck to all
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#2 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Sad Story

AUTHOR: Rachel - (U.S.A.)

I am a former administrator who decided to come to work one morning with the office closed and all the guys skipped town. I lost a whole months pay when TWO paychecks bounced. After many nonsuccessful attempts to get my money failed, I just realized I hope these scumbags get what is coming to them. Playmaker Promotional Group and Capital Advertising with Ed Dischino and Thomas Briscoe and Janet Huntington did nothing but steal from poor innocent hard working people who just needed a job.. And I hope they all pay for it in the end. Columbus Ohio was theirb former hub but im not sure where it is now. How do these companies stay afloat for as long as they do, and it seems like they follow me everywhere. I just moved to Nashville, TN for a real job and my new roommate (poor thing) just came home from an interview today and i had to tell him it was all a scam.. sheesh will they ever pay?!?
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#3 UPDATE Employee

This is coming from a vp who is about to quit

AUTHOR: Derek - (U.S.A.)

Hi, my name is Derek Colontonio, and I'm currently one of the VP for Granton Marketing. After years of wasting my time in this company, I feel it's time for me to quit.

Here is my story:
As a college drop out, I found very few opportunities. I one day found an ad in an employment guide looking to train individuals for management, no experience was necessary.

So I decided to interview. I'm sure most of you know the whole process by now. I went in, moved up to leadership within three weeks, and as a leader, I was promised by my manager that I was 6-8 months away from being financially independant. So I decided to stick through the whole leadership process.

As a leader, I was taught to lie, and tell anyone coming into the company that they too (with effort and persistance) could make it up to management within 8-10 month period (maybe shorter).

Although this was a lie, because it took me 18 months to get up to management, and most leaders quit after a year to a year and a half, until they finally quit because they only have 1 or 2 leaders under them.

But I thought this was okay, because I would eventually move up to management, and become financially successful... right?... WRONG!

When I did move up to management, I found out that it was all a lie. As a manager, I was only making 30-40 thousands dollars a year. This was enough money to get by, but I could've made more had I just graduated from college.

As a manager, I had to claim that I was making 200,000 dollars a year, and granton marketing even provided me with a nice car and apartment so it would seem like I really was making all this money!

Being a manager, I was working 80-85 hours per weeking, and lying to everyone in the office, despite trying to act as a fatherly figure.


My next goal was to move up to regional manager. All I had to do was train 5 leaders to become managers. Easy enough, right...? Well this whole process took me 6 years. 6 years of working 85 hours per week, lying to everyone that I claimed to like, and act as a fatherly figure towards.

My promise was that as a regional manager, I would have to work less hours, and I would finally make 6 digits.

Both of these were lies. Even as a regional manager, I had to work 80 hours per week, but I got to fly from one city to another, instead of just sitting in some office all day. The money was a little better, my first year as a regional manager, I made 70,000 dollars. And the best part was that I didn't have to lie on a daily basis.

So as a regional manager, my goal was to promote just 1 other person to regional manager, and 3 more leaders to management, so someone else could take over my position, and I would get to stop working so hard, and make even more money.

I did this, and it only took 2 and half years. Finally, I would stop having to work so hard, and I could find a wife to settle down with, and have lots of extra money.

WRONG...!!!!! As a VP I still have to fly all over the country, train managers, tell them how to properly lie to their leaders and so on. I still don't get to live a normal life. I still don't make 6 digit figures.

I even had to make up a pretend life, where I claim to be married, and have 2 kids! This is a lie, as I haven't ever had the time to meet a woman, settle down, or have any kids.

I claim that I live in a mansion in the nicest neighborhood in Chicago.

This is also a LIE!!! I live in a decent sized apartment building with 5 other VP's, and none of us make more than 80,000 dollars a year, and most of this money is spent on our own travel expenses, as we never get to stay in the same place for more than a short period of time.

Fortunately, I have enough money saved up, so that I'll be able to quit, finish college, and hopefully meet a woman and get married.

Truth, I've only had 1 girlfriend in my 11 years at granton, and most of the VP's lie about being married or still being in contact with family members, because that's what the head people at Granton tell us to do. The head people at Granton are mostly MBA'ers who never spent a day as a distributor.

As a message from a VP (ready to quit)...

GET OUT, GET OUT, GET OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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#4 UPDATE Employee

This is coming from a vp who is about to quit

AUTHOR: Derek - (U.S.A.)

Hi, my name is Derek Colontonio, and I'm currently one of the VP for Granton Marketing. After years of wasting my time in this company, I feel it's time for me to quit.

Here is my story:
As a college drop out, I found very few opportunities. I one day found an ad in an employment guide looking to train individuals for management, no experience was necessary.

So I decided to interview. I'm sure most of you know the whole process by now. I went in, moved up to leadership within three weeks, and as a leader, I was promised by my manager that I was 6-8 months away from being financially independant. So I decided to stick through the whole leadership process.

As a leader, I was taught to lie, and tell anyone coming into the company that they too (with effort and persistance) could make it up to management within 8-10 month period (maybe shorter).

Although this was a lie, because it took me 18 months to get up to management, and most leaders quit after a year to a year and a half, until they finally quit because they only have 1 or 2 leaders under them.

But I thought this was okay, because I would eventually move up to management, and become financially successful... right?... WRONG!

When I did move up to management, I found out that it was all a lie. As a manager, I was only making 30-40 thousands dollars a year. This was enough money to get by, but I could've made more had I just graduated from college.

As a manager, I had to claim that I was making 200,000 dollars a year, and granton marketing even provided me with a nice car and apartment so it would seem like I really was making all this money!

Being a manager, I was working 80-85 hours per weeking, and lying to everyone in the office, despite trying to act as a fatherly figure.


My next goal was to move up to regional manager. All I had to do was train 5 leaders to become managers. Easy enough, right...? Well this whole process took me 6 years. 6 years of working 85 hours per week, lying to everyone that I claimed to like, and act as a fatherly figure towards.

My promise was that as a regional manager, I would have to work less hours, and I would finally make 6 digits.

Both of these were lies. Even as a regional manager, I had to work 80 hours per week, but I got to fly from one city to another, instead of just sitting in some office all day. The money was a little better, my first year as a regional manager, I made 70,000 dollars. And the best part was that I didn't have to lie on a daily basis.

So as a regional manager, my goal was to promote just 1 other person to regional manager, and 3 more leaders to management, so someone else could take over my position, and I would get to stop working so hard, and make even more money.

I did this, and it only took 2 and half years. Finally, I would stop having to work so hard, and I could find a wife to settle down with, and have lots of extra money.

WRONG...!!!!! As a VP I still have to fly all over the country, train managers, tell them how to properly lie to their leaders and so on. I still don't get to live a normal life. I still don't make 6 digit figures.

I even had to make up a pretend life, where I claim to be married, and have 2 kids! This is a lie, as I haven't ever had the time to meet a woman, settle down, or have any kids.

I claim that I live in a mansion in the nicest neighborhood in Chicago.

This is also a LIE!!! I live in a decent sized apartment building with 5 other VP's, and none of us make more than 80,000 dollars a year, and most of this money is spent on our own travel expenses, as we never get to stay in the same place for more than a short period of time.

Fortunately, I have enough money saved up, so that I'll be able to quit, finish college, and hopefully meet a woman and get married.

Truth, I've only had 1 girlfriend in my 11 years at granton, and most of the VP's lie about being married or still being in contact with family members, because that's what the head people at Granton tell us to do. The head people at Granton are mostly MBA'ers who never spent a day as a distributor.

As a message from a VP (ready to quit)...

GET OUT, GET OUT, GET OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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#5 UPDATE Employee

This is coming from a vp who is about to quit

AUTHOR: Derek - (U.S.A.)

Hi, my name is Derek Colontonio, and I'm currently one of the VP for Granton Marketing. After years of wasting my time in this company, I feel it's time for me to quit.

Here is my story:
As a college drop out, I found very few opportunities. I one day found an ad in an employment guide looking to train individuals for management, no experience was necessary.

So I decided to interview. I'm sure most of you know the whole process by now. I went in, moved up to leadership within three weeks, and as a leader, I was promised by my manager that I was 6-8 months away from being financially independant. So I decided to stick through the whole leadership process.

As a leader, I was taught to lie, and tell anyone coming into the company that they too (with effort and persistance) could make it up to management within 8-10 month period (maybe shorter).

Although this was a lie, because it took me 18 months to get up to management, and most leaders quit after a year to a year and a half, until they finally quit because they only have 1 or 2 leaders under them.

But I thought this was okay, because I would eventually move up to management, and become financially successful... right?... WRONG!

When I did move up to management, I found out that it was all a lie. As a manager, I was only making 30-40 thousands dollars a year. This was enough money to get by, but I could've made more had I just graduated from college.

As a manager, I had to claim that I was making 200,000 dollars a year, and granton marketing even provided me with a nice car and apartment so it would seem like I really was making all this money!

Being a manager, I was working 80-85 hours per weeking, and lying to everyone in the office, despite trying to act as a fatherly figure.


My next goal was to move up to regional manager. All I had to do was train 5 leaders to become managers. Easy enough, right...? Well this whole process took me 6 years. 6 years of working 85 hours per week, lying to everyone that I claimed to like, and act as a fatherly figure towards.

My promise was that as a regional manager, I would have to work less hours, and I would finally make 6 digits.

Both of these were lies. Even as a regional manager, I had to work 80 hours per week, but I got to fly from one city to another, instead of just sitting in some office all day. The money was a little better, my first year as a regional manager, I made 70,000 dollars. And the best part was that I didn't have to lie on a daily basis.

So as a regional manager, my goal was to promote just 1 other person to regional manager, and 3 more leaders to management, so someone else could take over my position, and I would get to stop working so hard, and make even more money.

I did this, and it only took 2 and half years. Finally, I would stop having to work so hard, and I could find a wife to settle down with, and have lots of extra money.

WRONG...!!!!! As a VP I still have to fly all over the country, train managers, tell them how to properly lie to their leaders and so on. I still don't get to live a normal life. I still don't make 6 digit figures.

I even had to make up a pretend life, where I claim to be married, and have 2 kids! This is a lie, as I haven't ever had the time to meet a woman, settle down, or have any kids.

I claim that I live in a mansion in the nicest neighborhood in Chicago.

This is also a LIE!!! I live in a decent sized apartment building with 5 other VP's, and none of us make more than 80,000 dollars a year, and most of this money is spent on our own travel expenses, as we never get to stay in the same place for more than a short period of time.

Fortunately, I have enough money saved up, so that I'll be able to quit, finish college, and hopefully meet a woman and get married.

Truth, I've only had 1 girlfriend in my 11 years at granton, and most of the VP's lie about being married or still being in contact with family members, because that's what the head people at Granton tell us to do. The head people at Granton are mostly MBA'ers who never spent a day as a distributor.

As a message from a VP (ready to quit)...

GET OUT, GET OUT, GET OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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#6 UPDATE Employee

This is coming from a vp who is about to quit

AUTHOR: Derek - (U.S.A.)

Hi, my name is Derek Colontonio, and I'm currently one of the VP for Granton Marketing. After years of wasting my time in this company, I feel it's time for me to quit.

Here is my story:
As a college drop out, I found very few opportunities. I one day found an ad in an employment guide looking to train individuals for management, no experience was necessary.

So I decided to interview. I'm sure most of you know the whole process by now. I went in, moved up to leadership within three weeks, and as a leader, I was promised by my manager that I was 6-8 months away from being financially independant. So I decided to stick through the whole leadership process.

As a leader, I was taught to lie, and tell anyone coming into the company that they too (with effort and persistance) could make it up to management within 8-10 month period (maybe shorter).

Although this was a lie, because it took me 18 months to get up to management, and most leaders quit after a year to a year and a half, until they finally quit because they only have 1 or 2 leaders under them.

But I thought this was okay, because I would eventually move up to management, and become financially successful... right?... WRONG!

When I did move up to management, I found out that it was all a lie. As a manager, I was only making 30-40 thousands dollars a year. This was enough money to get by, but I could've made more had I just graduated from college.

As a manager, I had to claim that I was making 200,000 dollars a year, and granton marketing even provided me with a nice car and apartment so it would seem like I really was making all this money!

Being a manager, I was working 80-85 hours per weeking, and lying to everyone in the office, despite trying to act as a fatherly figure.


My next goal was to move up to regional manager. All I had to do was train 5 leaders to become managers. Easy enough, right...? Well this whole process took me 6 years. 6 years of working 85 hours per week, lying to everyone that I claimed to like, and act as a fatherly figure towards.

My promise was that as a regional manager, I would have to work less hours, and I would finally make 6 digits.

Both of these were lies. Even as a regional manager, I had to work 80 hours per week, but I got to fly from one city to another, instead of just sitting in some office all day. The money was a little better, my first year as a regional manager, I made 70,000 dollars. And the best part was that I didn't have to lie on a daily basis.

So as a regional manager, my goal was to promote just 1 other person to regional manager, and 3 more leaders to management, so someone else could take over my position, and I would get to stop working so hard, and make even more money.

I did this, and it only took 2 and half years. Finally, I would stop having to work so hard, and I could find a wife to settle down with, and have lots of extra money.

WRONG...!!!!! As a VP I still have to fly all over the country, train managers, tell them how to properly lie to their leaders and so on. I still don't get to live a normal life. I still don't make 6 digit figures.

I even had to make up a pretend life, where I claim to be married, and have 2 kids! This is a lie, as I haven't ever had the time to meet a woman, settle down, or have any kids.

I claim that I live in a mansion in the nicest neighborhood in Chicago.

This is also a LIE!!! I live in a decent sized apartment building with 5 other VP's, and none of us make more than 80,000 dollars a year, and most of this money is spent on our own travel expenses, as we never get to stay in the same place for more than a short period of time.

Fortunately, I have enough money saved up, so that I'll be able to quit, finish college, and hopefully meet a woman and get married.

Truth, I've only had 1 girlfriend in my 11 years at granton, and most of the VP's lie about being married or still being in contact with family members, because that's what the head people at Granton tell us to do. The head people at Granton are mostly MBA'ers who never spent a day as a distributor.

As a message from a VP (ready to quit)...

GET OUT, GET OUT, GET OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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#7 UPDATE EX-employee responds

What leaders should know, but manager won't tell them

AUTHOR: T-dawg - (U.S.A.)

I'm an ex-employee. I just wanted to point out a few things about management and these so called "leader's meetings."

The leaders meeting continued to stress three things:
1. The field is horrible, but once you get out (i.e. management) you'll become financially indepedant.
2. You're working hard now, but you'll be financially indepedant for the rest of your life (of course they forget to mention this consist of only 10 people in the whole company who start out as distributors).
3. DON'T QUIT, DON'T QUIT, DON'T QUIT.

Anyways, the whole "leader's meeting" is based around the premise of saying anything that they can so the leaders won't actually quit.

But, there's probably a few things that the leaders should know...

As a leader, you bend the truth slightly to retain trainees, and hopefully move them up to leadership.

But from my understanding, as a manger, you have to become a full blown con-artist. While most of the people coming into the industry are good hearted people... spending years of taking rejection, lying, and doing anything it takes to finally get to the point where you actually make decent money- eventually makes you a cold-hearted person who hates people (of course not everyone is like this).

Managers lie about how much money they make. They claim 6-digits, but most of that is held by the parent company, meaning you only get a small chunk of it.

Plus, you have to work 90 hours per week, just so you yourself can scrape by.

Then you have to lie to your leaders, and tell them how much money you're making, and how great and easy it is to be a manager.

Then it takes them 5-7 years to get 5 leaders up to management, so they can become regional directors (where they believe they'll become millionaires).

So even if you don't quit in the management process, you'll spend close to a decade trying to become financially independant, throwing away all the good years of your life.

And you spend your whole time in management completely lying to people, and teaching others how to manipulate others, while claiming that they should never lie.

Pretty nice life.
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#8 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Advertising merch? Also, I thank God literally, that it was only DsScam!!!

AUTHOR: Ann - (U.S.A.)

Benson, please correct me if I'm wrong but, in advertising, isn't your merchandise just certificates? If so, then, what is so hard about having to keep them dry while in Seattle? I mean, come on now, they fit almost anywhere and they don't prevent you from carrying an umbrella so, what was the challenge that you feel that you faced? I was in clearance in Seattle and had big bulky items to keep dry. That was a challenge but, in advertising???

Secondly, what does our being upset have to do with not taking responsibility for our actions? Yes, it was me that allowed an age old system of brainwashing to allow me to provide basically slave labor for my higher ups. It's through the fact that I am taking responsibility for those bad actions that have caused me to learn something about myself and because of that, that I thank God {literally,} that it was only Ds Scam. To explain what I mean, the following is what I wrote a couple months ago on the dsmaxtheaftermath.com website... A few weeks ago, I watched the biography of Charles Manson. The way he managed to take seemingly, "normal," {for lacc of a better word,} girls and have them end up doing unspeakable things, caused me to examine myself. I am not proud of some things I did while I was with dsscam, and in doing it, I was not myself. In other words, it is not something I would've done under normal circumstances.
With this knowledge of how vulnerable I was, I found myself feeling very blessed that it was only dsscam and not something much worse. I have always been a very strong willed person with my values and morals firmly in place so to come across someone who I let my guard down around is truly amazing. It makes me wonder if the circumstances were right, could I have been equally misled by say Charles Manson? How about Hitler? I have very strong religious views so, pre~dsscam I would have said, absolutely not, but, again, if the circumstances were such as they were with this scam, could I have been mislead by a cult? I never used to think so!
Along those same lines, I always thought I knew what I would have done if I were alive when Jesus was crucified but, could I have been mislead as easily as I was for dsscam? Of course I've always thought I knew what I would do in situations such as these but, then again, I also didn't think I would ever do anything like what I did while working for them. It is always my goal to learn from my mistakes so, I'm sure that thankfully, I'll be wiser in the future and for now, I'm just going to thank God that as terrible as dsscam is, it wasn't something even worse!

As far as blaming your self only for not taking the time to investigate further, don't do that. Think about it realistically and you will realize that when you got caught up in their whirlwind, you were not allowed the luxury of time to think any of your own thoughts, you were too busy doing what they programmed you to do and even further, you were expecting to produce the results that they very carefully and manipulatively convinced you to believe were easily attainable.
Do yourself a favor, break out of that brainwashed state of mind and realize that you have far more to complain about than the retrain thing. Quit beating yourself up by saying things like you shouldn't have been a leader if you couldn't make the 50 dollars in the field. Look at it like this, if you only made 50 dollars and that was the amount that you were obligated to pay the person that you were training then, how were you supposed to pay your own bills? Besides, why is it that the so~called promotion to leader carries with it the responsibility of you having to pay the people that are essentially not paying your bills but the bills of the people above you? Did you ever stop to realize that that really is the only thing that the promotion to leader enables you to do? You don't get a break in the price of your merchandise. You don't get to work less hours or attend less atmosphere meetings. The only, perk, from the promotion is that you have another mouth to feed at the expense of anyone else's mouth that you're responsible for!!!
Sorry to say but, as long as people are willing defend the company that they were screwed over by, the company will continue to screw over as many victims, yes, victims as possible.
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#9 UPDATE EX-employee responds

you take the good with the bad

AUTHOR: Benson - (Korea, Republic of)

for all those with complaints against granton, or dsmax or whichever division you worked for, all i have to say is you willingly signed that piece of paper that said you were an independent distributor. so, yes your manager was making money off of you and so was his or her manager all the way up to paul geudreau (i was in advertising, i don't know who the head of clearance is), but that's what you signed up for. that's where dsmax, granton, execucard, or clearance dodges liability. it has nothing to do with the name of the company. those are different divisions. granton is it's own company now because it got to big to be a division of dsmax. but i digress. don't get me wrong, i understand what you're pissed about, but take responsibility for your own actions.

i did the same thing, although i admit, i didn't really know what it meant at the time, but when i look back at it, i only blame myself for not taking the time to learn what i was getting myself into.

the only thing i really can complain about is that i had to pay out my retrains, which i never agreed to do. but then, i shouldn't have been a leader if i couldn't make $50 in the field, but still... and i also think the interview process, which is scripted so that they don't technically lie by saying things like "your average leader can take in between $4-500 per week" or "you can run your own business within one year", is ultimately dishonest.

i just realized, after about 8 months, that trying to keep an office together over time is more work than i was willing to put in (my office pretty much folded, my manager quit, and his promoting manager kind of took us in, but i left), and i didn't think it was worth it.

but whoever that was bitching about merching in the rain, i was in seattle trying to keep my merch dry so top that.

funny, but i miss those guys.
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#10 UPDATE EX-employee responds

$540.00 a week + 72 hours of work = $7.48 an hour! If that's good money, sign me up!

AUTHOR: Ann - (U.S.A.)

"19 years old making very good money... im getting ready to ... with my manager and the other top distributor"

That was your title. Knowing this scam like I do, you're getting ready to WHAT with your manager and the other top distributor? That question could have been answered, "Sleep with," as easily as anything else since it's a well known fact that that's what happens a lot to get people to stay involved. Is that what you meant?
You said you made 540 dollars the first week. If you're putting in the typical 12 hours a day, 6 days a week, you're making about $7.48 per hour. That is barely above minimum wage and at least at McDonalds you get either free or discounted food, you have more normal hours and you're not straining your relationships by being away so much!

Todd summed it up perfectly when he broke down how your making 100 dollars a day will change once you get your so~called promotion to leader. Their so~called promotions are really just their way of causing you to pay the new people what they would otherwise have to pay!

I don't know about you but, when I think of getting a promotion because I'm doing a good job or as you said, Working you're a** off, I think I should get more money, not have to pay out of my poccet and therefore be making less!

Next, you referred to the scam as legit. If it is so legit, why do they continuously have to change their name? If you talked in depth with the IRS or the BBB, {a scam in itself,} would they agree that they're legit?

Third, you stated that the long hours are helping you to manage money. I'll say...it's kind of hard to have time to spend any money when you're devoting as much time as you are to them. Yeah, of course, everyone in the office is very supportive of each other. You all see each other more than you see anyone else. Besides, who in the normal world is going to understand what it is that you think makes this scam is so great!
Your leader works her butt off, who in this scam doesn't?

Don't you think it's kind of strange that the person who supposedly owns their building is there practically as many hours as anyone else? Don't the owners of most businesses get to picc and choose how much or how little they want to work? Shouldn't that be the advantage of ownership?

Being a so~called owner with this scam entitles you to very little, such as, you get to name the office, {if too many other owners haven't used something similar.} You get to pay all the costs, i.e. rent, lights, advertising, hub fees, etc. Oh yeah and it's "your," business but if you do anything that they don't like, you get chewed out.

Every so~called promotion that you get along the way is really just their way of having you pay out more money. Oh yeah, as owner, you get to have the joy of lying in your ads and at the interviews to get people to join! That just sounds like a great value for a so~called company to possess! I'm just curious, do these, "excellent people skills," that you refer to include lying because there's SO much of that that you have to do along the way!

In closing, "Would I scrub toilets for six months to a year, if someone told me that I would make six digits a year after that?" That's not a good analogy because there is less shame in scrubbing toilets than there is in lying to people that you're supposed to like, just to get them to keep compromising their integrity, families and friends and in selling JUNK to your unsuspecting customers!

Before I would take the above offer, I would first do my research and if I came to a place like this website where literally thousands of people who had gone on before me came on and pointed out the facts that I and others have pointed out, thereby giving me my due warning, I would be inclined to at least open my eyes and see if the things they were saying were ringing true!

The first thing that would stand out and raise all kinds of red flags would be that they feel it necessary to change their name so many times. How many other legit companies feel it necessary to do this? Just on this website, you can find reports about them under, dsmax, ds max, ds/max, ds-max, cydcor, granton, innovage, yasny, aris marketing, and tons more! Doesn't that tell you anything?
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#11 UPDATE EX-employee responds

$100 a day now and millions tomorrow?

AUTHOR: Todd - (U.S.A.)

How much are you really making after all your transportation costs? What about when you start training 3 times a week? Take $50 a day out of that $100. And your taxes? You can't just write off everything like they say. If you choose to just dismiss me as a quitter, fine. But know that part of that $100 a day you earn is going to have to go to uncle sam. And if you do not put aside money for it now - you will have to pay through the nose later.

Now as to the all the friendships you are forming? Been there. Done that.

My grandfather was a smart man that had many storys and few good sayings. He worked hard all his life, owned several business and was the patriarch of a good strong family. I used to take time to listen to his storys and I learned. One of his favorite life lessons to me was as follows. He would ask me to hold my hand out in front of me and look at my fingers.

Then he would look at me and say that if I had a good friend for every finger on my hand, that I would be a lucky man indeed. By a good friend, he meant that someone that would loan you like 10 to 20 grand right on the spot, no questions asked, or that would do what ever for you at any time. He would look at me with his out stretched hand and hold his thumb with the other and say, "almost always, usualy such a friend like that is your mother". Then on to the next finger, "if you are lucky, then another friend like that is your father". Then he would look at the fingers of his hand and back at me and say that if I could have enough good friends like he was talking about to fill the rest of the fingers, that I would be a very lucky man indeed.

This story reminds me of the false friendships that we often had in the business.

--**disclaimer**-- I have maintained some friends in from the business and I do not wish to imply that I do not in anyway not value theze friendships. If you are out there, and you are my friend from the business days, and we are still in contact, I am not talking about you! I love you all to death! In addition, I have made some friends via the site and I do value you!

What I am speaking about is a broad sense of all the friendships that someone has with ones crew, ones owner and ones leader. These are all conditional friendships. They don't last. To merit these friendships you have to be a producer, act the right way, talk the right way and be going for the opportunity. What happens when you get negative? What if you decide to quit? What if your numbers plummet? There go your friends. How many times have people seen a long time leader just quit or get toasted and then that is it. That person is now "negative" or "bad" or "not in the business!!!!"

Would a Mother ever disown a child for quitting a job or being negative for a few months? Would you eschew your best friend since high school for having a view you don't approve of or maybe not getting with all the "juicy" people?

That is not love. That is not someone that I could with confidence claim as someone worthy of being one of the fingers my grandfather talked about.

Let us see what MerriamWebster has to say about love and friendship.

friend: 1 a : one attached to another by affection or esteem

Love: 1 a (1) : strong affection for another arising out of kinship or personal ties (2) : attraction based on sexual desire : affection and tenderness felt by lovers (3) : affection based on admiration, benevolence, or common interests

Or why don't we check with what the bible might say about love?

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. 1 Corinthians 13:5-7

Now I don't want to appear to arch-christian. Let's see what Kahlil Gibran, a muslim prophet, says about friendship:

And a youth said, "Speak to us of Friendship." Your friend is your needs answered. He is your field which you sow with love and reap with thanksgiving. And he is your board and your fireside. For you come to him with your hunger, and you seek him for peace. When your friend speaks his mind you fear not the "nay" in your own mind, nor do you withhold the "ay." And when he is silent your heart ceases not to listen to his heart; For without words, in friendship, all thoughts, all desires, all expectations are born and shared, with joy that is unacclaimed.

When you part from your friend, you grieve not; For that which you love most in him may be clearer in his absence, as the mountain to the climber is clearer from the plain. And let there be no purpose in friendship save the deepening of the spirit. For love that seeks aught but the disclosure of its own mystery is not love but a net cast forth: and only the unprofitable is caught. And let your best be for your friend. If he must know the ebb of your tide, let him know its flood also.

For what is your friend that you should seek him with hours to kill? Seek him always with hours to live. For it is his to fill your need, but not your emptiness. And in the sweetness of friendship let there be laughter, and sharing of pleasures. For in the dew of little things the heart finds its morning and is refreshed.

Most real lasting friendships arn't formed by being part of a crew and all working together for financial independance. Don't get me wrong, there are incidents were people get married and do become life long friends. But I am speaking about the majority of these relationships. They end the day one person toasts. Real friendships are based on trust and take a while to develop. It is not just finding out about someones interests and adapting to them like a chamelon so that you can con a person into getting into leadership to make you financial independant.

I guess what I am trying to say, is that it is import to know who your friends are and what kind of friends and loved ones you want to have. The relationships that were formed in the business were usually pretty shallow and just based on conditions. There was not really any unconditional love or friendship. People get attracted to the business in part because they feel so accepted and like they are all part of some family that is bigger than they are. But now that we have experienced the business and are wiser for it, we need to know what kind of relationships really count and how to evaluate them.

I would love to see some well thought comments on this. What do you all think true love and friendship are about? How did you notice the false friendships in the business?
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#12 UPDATE Employee

19 years old making very good money... im getting ready to ... with my manager and the other top distributor

AUTHOR: Brad - (U.S.A.)

I've been with Grantons Greensboro office, TDI Concepts for a week and made $540 in that one week im getting ready to go to Georgia, with my manager and the other top distributor of the week to do a promotion for the Atlanta Braves. At the end of the road trip I will get promoted to Account Manager or "Leader" at first i was skeptical but i leave the office every night with around $100 cash in my pocket, this job definitely isnt for everybody, but it is legit, I met our regional vice president he is from the area where i grew up, he has a degree from Stone Hill, and he started in the distributor stage just like everyone else, and now hes making millions sure he is one guy but anybody can get there if they put there time in, im gonna be manager or owner when im 20 years old of my own business a 19 year old could never get an opportunity like this anywhere else, yea im putting in long hours but it is teaching me how to manage money which has always been a problem with me, and everyone in the office are very supportive of each other and everyone else in the office, its basically a management training program, Granton Marketing has over 120 offices across the US and my current leader is about to get promoted to Asst. Manager she works her a*s off i know this cause i've been with her everyday ive been here, I work my a*s off as well thats why im being promoted in two weeks of being with the company, again its not for everyone, you need to have excellent people skills, and u need to be willing to work ur a*s off but think about this, if some one told u to scrub toilets for six months to a year, and you would make six digits a year after that, you would do it, wouldnt you, i sure hope so. So dont rank on Granton cause u couldnt make it.
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#13 Consumer Comment

Thank you Todd for educating Shane on the world of Communism, your educated and well spoken response is the image that America needs!

AUTHOR: Christina - (U.S.A.)

Shane it is ignorant people like you who give Americans a bad name. There was no reason to insult someone just because you don't share their opinions.

No where on this site does it say that it is only for Americans and I think that the hundreds of people from other countries who have contributed to it would also disaggree with you.

Thank you Todd for educating Shane on the world of Communism, your educated and well spoken response is the image that America needs!

I too have been in contact with the Granton company, not personally but close enough to know what goes on. They manipulate you into thinking that it is a wonderful opportunity and that if you don't make good money that it is your fault- not that a promo could ever be bad or the people could just not be interested.

You can make a lot of money if you don't have a family or any sort of social life, if you like walking around in the rain and working sixteen hours a day- and not being paid for half of it, because you're in an 'opportunity meeting' or 'working the boards', getting your averages up', take advatage of the opportunity while you can- GET OUT!
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#14 UPDATE EX-employee responds

destroying the lives of thousands of people every year

AUTHOR: Todd - (U.S.A.)

Shane? Granted, I think Eric is full of it.

I think he is contributing to an organization that is destroying the lives of thousands of people every year.

I have done my share on this site to warn others. Read up if you don't believe me.

But there is no reason why this site should just be read by americans. Don't you think that people overseas get just as hurt by them? This guy might have lost his crew over this site!

Also, the netherlands was never communist. They were never beyond the iron curtain. Maybe there are some socialist influences...but that is not the same thing.

Think before you put your foot in your mouth!

Pick on Eric for being part of cult like MLM that is hurting people! Not for being out side of the us or part of a system that he was never part of!
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#15 Consumer Comment

TAKE YOUR COMMUNIST a*s SOMEWHERE ELSE.

AUTHOR: Shane - (U.S.A.)

ERIK IS A COMMUNIST. ERIK THIS IS AN AMERICAN WEBSITE. TAKE YOUR COMMUNIST a*s SOMEWHERE ELSE.
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#16 UPDATE Employee

Stop talking crap

AUTHOR: Erik - (Netherlands)

Hey,

It's nice to see people talk about a bussiness when don't now everything.

I work for Granton in the netherlands.

I'll turn your nego's

1 I know my managers name

2 It's not e piramide work

3 When you work hard you'll get lot's of money

4 People who talk crap about this....they are not hard workers so they think the company is bad, but start talking about yourself and not over others

5 No, you don't have time to spend your money so what are you talking about to low money

6 When you do applications ppl in netherlands in the bussines..new ppl earn 2400 Euro and those are gimmels

7 And ppl say some stuff about manipulating ppl, when you say against ppl it's direct sales door-2-door they doesn't give it a try.

When you have more questions........
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#17 UPDATE EX-employee responds

statue of limitations on sexual harassment is seven years.

AUTHOR: Michelle - (U.S.A.)

General Morality of Cydcor

Tom,

People here have commented time and again on the rampant sexual harassment and moral turpitude at Cydcor. Ironically, in your defense of the company, you prove the validity of their complaints:

"I too as an owner would sleep w/ girls like her to sometimes keep them around a little while."

You should hope that none of those "girls like her" read this site or know a good lawyer. I believe the statue of limitations on sexual harassment is seven years.
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#18 UPDATE EX-employee responds

DS-Max is really just cheap labor, warehousing, and distribution of crappy products

AUTHOR: James - (U.S.A.)

Mr. Hard,

I can't stop laughing at your post. Do you honestly think that your attempt at reverse psychology works? You are probably an owner or "juicy" leader trying to "set the example" that its okay to accept that you failed and couldn't make it. Good luck with that. And I love your very predictable "degree" remark. Do you have one? You talk about hard work and yet its only supposed to take a year to start making the "big bucks" in DS-Max. A bachelor's degree takes four years. The only hard or challenging thing about DS-Max is that you have to be able to lower your standards... alot.

And Tom, the "great opportunity" theory is all a load of crap. Do you want to know what DS-Max really is? Its dirt-cheap labor. DS-Max manufactures most of the products (junk - totally worthless crap) themselves and makes bundles of money by avoiding all the usuall expenses associated with a manufacturing company. Its funny how everybody is wrapped up in the organization aspect of leadership, management, etc.

Yet, no matter where you are in the organization you are still a puppet for a company that barely gives a d**n about you even when you are doing well. Its amazing how distracted people are by the "opportunity" that they can't even realize they are being exploited - even after attaining ownership and realizing that they don't make crap despite the number of times they've been told "six figures".

Its a brilliant and shameful way to do business. But if you're willing to be taken for a ride, by all means sign up. All you have to do is look in the paper for a job in advertising promising $400 - $600 a week w/ paid "management training". Then just lower your standards of living, social life, and morals and you'll be months away from being another manipulative, lying, poor owner.
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#19 UPDATE EX-employee responds

In Defense of DSMAX

AUTHOR: Tom - (U.S.A.)

DSMAX,is truly not for everyone and it does take hardwork and commitment to make it.. Iknow that scares some people!!However I was a part of this truly unique company for 5yrs. as an owner when because of my own faults I lost my business. I just think that jennifer needs to stop looking elsewhere for blame when her relationship to the owner went sour! I too as an owner would sleep w/ girls like her to sometimes keep them around a little while! The point here is I think it's truly ashame that DSMAX is getting a bad rap!

Here is the facts at 19 I came to the company looking to make $300-$400 a week, and after 4months was running my own business in San Diego... at 21 payed cash for a new 300zx and at 22 bought another car worth 50k(toyota supra) so yes their is money to made but it takes commitment and effort lots of effort! All though the company is not for everyone I am truly glad that I went on a day of observation 11yrs ago..

Yes I am not with DSMAX anymore but what I learned their has been priceless and educating!!
So Jennifer and you other bitter individuals need to look in the mirrror and realize IT'S NOT FOR EVERYONE and stop slandering what you don't know!

Oh yeah in response to when an office needs a retrain and you suck up the cost as an owner..yes you do but again you own the company so you tell me who should pay for a mistake made by you!! All DSMAX does is consign the merchandise at no UPFRONT COST TO YOU!! Bottom line DSMAX was a great opportunity for me and others like me and i'm proud to say I was a part of them!!
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#20 UPDATE EX-employee responds

GIVE ME A BREAK

AUTHOR: Jennifer - (U.S.A.)

First of all, "Hard," is that your name? What is most disturbing is the number of spelling and grammatical errors in your little preaching session. No wonder you couldn't hack it, being as you can't even communicate effectively.

Secondly, to you, Mike in Cincinatti...I've been to Cincinatti--I feel your pain. But that doesn't mean you need to tell lies. So you currently have $30,000 in the bank? Would that be your personal bank or the ever-elusive DS-MAX bank? By the way, to those of you who don't know, managers don't just get an office of their own and run their own business in the traditional fashion. Oh no, they may have existing business accounts set up to pay their overhead and such, but the "profit" they all seem to brag about is in some faraway land where not only do they not have live access to it, but it's also in some utopia where there never seem to be any income taxes either...wow! Can you imagine???

And before any more of the successful "owners" out there waste their time rebutting my message, let me explain myself. I worked for DS-MAX for over a year, both in Advertising and Communications. I dated and lived with the Advertising owner so I KNOW how it works. Also, we had a vice-president in our office...maybe you know him. His name is Mark Kernan. He's a pretty big deal in Nevernever land. He is supposedly a millionaire. That must be why he didn't own a car and lived in what they call a "merch pit"-- a filthy, disgusting 3 bedroom apartment with about 12 people living in it. I can't speak for what he's doing now, as I left the business over two years ago, but he is absolutely the most generous man I have ever met. As many people have said, there are people I have met through DS-MAX that I will never forget. But that does not mean that "the business" is acceptable. It involves lying and manipulating. The people who are serious about it are so far-removed from reality that they don't even know how corporations really function. Two years later, I am in computer sales making about $75k. I can't complain. I have a $25k base salary and great benefits. I have things like "vacation time," "401k," and "casual dress Friday." And while I realize that corporate America isn't for everyone, it's definitely a start. So you want to "write your own paycheck" as they say? Get a job in sales then where you have a base salary AND commission (Wow! What a brainstorm!). You want to run your own business? Why not take out a small business loan the way most SANE people do and invest in something you really enjoy!

I sincerely hope DS-MAX goes down in flames, never to rise again. Everything negative written about this company is 100% accurate. I just wanted to add a little more wisdom to what many of these people are already are writing. I know more about this company than most because I was never convinced of it's ideologies, but I was in love with the manager and so I stayed longer than necessary. But I always asked questions. And I never got real answers. Good luck to all of you!
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#21 UPDATE EX-employee responds

JUST WAIT...

AUTHOR: EX-OWNER - (U.S.A.)

This is in response to the guy from Cinci who made it to management in 7 months and has banked $30,000 in how many months? Good for you. Now here's a brilliant piece of advice - GET OUT WHILE YOU STILL HAVE A POSITIVE NUMBER IN YOUR BANK ACCOUNT AND YOUR FAMILY STILL RECOGNIZES YOU.

Take it from someone who's been there and done that. I, too, rode the wave of good fortune and had it crash many times. I worked 60-70 hours a week, Saturdays, whatever was needed. I didn't take a vacation that wasn't an owners meeting the entire time I was in the business. But hey, that's ok. I was working hard short term to live lazy long term.

Then one day I woke up. OK - it's great that I'm working my a*s off for the future but what would happen if I died tomorrow? Hate to put it that way, but who cares how much money you have if you don't have any time or any one to spend it with? That's what did it for me.

As much as I loved the business I also hated it. Do you know how frustrating it is to have your income be based on whether Johnny can keep his attitude, or even show up on time. You're so pressed to have bodies to make money, because there are five other offices in your market you're competing with, you can't be choosy. The sharp guys you do manage to bring in, you hope don't blow because of the other retards you had to bring in to keep production up. If that doesn't happen you lose money.

Do you have any outside deals? If not - do you know you foot the bill when they open up? Requires some $$. When they slack off and have to go on a retrain after 6 months (like most new owners do) do you know you assume their debt? Most guys don't know that.

But again welcome to the wonderful world of DS-MAX. There's a lot they don't tell you.
Hopefully you'll be smart enough to figure it out while your credit and your integrity is still intact. Good luck.
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#22 UPDATE EX-employee responds

JUST WAIT...

AUTHOR: EX-OWNER - (U.S.A.)

This is in response to the guy from Cinci who made it to management in 7 months and has banked $30,000 in how many months? Good for you. Now here's a brilliant piece of advice - GET OUT WHILE YOU STILL HAVE A POSITIVE NUMBER IN YOUR BANK ACCOUNT AND YOUR FAMILY STILL RECOGNIZES YOU.

Take it from someone who's been there and done that. I, too, rode the wave of good fortune and had it crash many times. I worked 60-70 hours a week, Saturdays, whatever was needed. I didn't take a vacation that wasn't an owners meeting the entire time I was in the business. But hey, that's ok. I was working hard short term to live lazy long term.

Then one day I woke up. OK - it's great that I'm working my a*s off for the future but what would happen if I died tomorrow? Hate to put it that way, but who cares how much money you have if you don't have any time or any one to spend it with? That's what did it for me.

As much as I loved the business I also hated it. Do you know how frustrating it is to have your income be based on whether Johnny can keep his attitude, or even show up on time.

You're so pressed to have bodies to make money, because there are five other offices in your market you're competing with, you can't be choosy. The sharp guys you do manage to bring in, you hope don't blow because of the other retards you had to bring in to keep production up. If that doesn't happen you lose money.
Do you have any outside deals? If not - do you know you foot the bill when they open up? Requires some $$. When they slack off and have to go on a retrain after 6 months (like most new owners do) do you know you assume their debt? Most guys don't know that.

But again welcome to the wonderful world of DS-MAX. There's a lot they don't tell you.
Hopefully you'll be smart enough to figure it out while your credit and your integrity is still intact. Good luck.
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#23 UPDATE EX-employee responds

get over your selves

AUTHOR: Todd - (U.S.A.)

Fact - The only way you can get people to try out for your job is to not tell them everything up front. You have trainers meetings where you discuss ways to manipulate people to stay.

Fact - You always try to keep the group around at all times so that they won't hear any ideas contrary to what you want to promote. You have atmosphere - unpayed - gatherings before and after work where you are only supposed to teach and learn about your "skewed" opportunity. You promote up and down how people should always want to be the first in in the morning - when there is really nothing to do - and the last to leave. People that don't accept what you want are labelled "negative" and you isolate or fire and don't help them.

Fact - Only one in thousands makes it too management. And that is not even good money.

Fact - you have to build a sales crew to get to management - and pay new people on your crew and other peoples crews - out of your own pocket.

Fact - Blatant unchecked sexual misconduct runs through out the organization.

Fact - Ds-max and cydcor never own any of the 1000's of independantly owned corportations that make up their global sales force. Why? Because the want to provide opportunity to others? (Keep dreaming if you believe that!) Because their are so many scams and unproffessional conduct (because they will hire anyone) and bad products
that they need to be removed from liability!

Fact - It is a cult and an mlm.

Fact - The vast majority of people that try that organization out - lose money. They wood have been better off an mcdonald's
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#24 UPDATE Employee

THE BEST OPPORTUNITY I HAVE EVER SEEN

AUTHOR: Mike - (U.S.A.)

I have been with this opportunity for over 2 years. I have seen many people come and go over time, but I have also seen hundreds of people's dreams come true over a few months of hard work. The opportunity is based on goals and dreams, what many people only dream about. I accomplished the training process under 7 months, then went on to bank an excess of $30,000 within 4 months.

What I have found is that it is easier to blame others for not accomplishing your goals then to look yourself in the mirror and accept failure. The opportunity given is equalivant to making it in the professional sports industry...many try and few are successful. The point is this company provides the knowledge to succeed very quickly, but most people are not willing to earn the reward....THAT IS VERY SAD!. Our company has not only given business growth to thousands, but I have seen more personal growth and maturity than the ones who blame others for not accomplishing their own goals. It is a business, some win and some lose....I HAVE NOT ACCEPTED FAILURE AS AN OPTION.

The part of my career I enjoy is not the monetery rewards, but he opportunity to provide the same opportunity to others for success. That is no lie and you can't slander the feeling of accomplishing a goal

SOMEONE WHO DIDN'T GIVE UP
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#25 Consumer Comment

NOT FOR EVERYONE

AUTHOR: HARD - (U.S.A.)

It is a pleasure to read this sight. I found it disturbing and refreshing at the same time. Disturbing because a few individuals find it imperative to speak foul on a company that actually provides the service that it claims to customers. Disturbing because none of the complaints are from people that actually purchase the certificates. Just from people that went on days of observation and found it not for them. Hey, guess what it is not for everyone. This is why you are given a day of observation so that a person is able to see exactly what they do. I found this sight refreshing because for every company there are people who succeed and those who fail. Honeslty how many of you on this sight made it through the program and became managers. I would bet very few because it takes hard work simple and plain. You don't pay any money to get in, and your paid cash each day for your individual effort. It's called commission and for some reason evryone thinks their degree means the company owes you. Try working hard or being an employee which ever you choose be honest with yourself about your abilities and drive as a person. If it was not for you then it was not for you, but don't hinder others form what yo could not do and act as if you are doing them a favor. Let everyone judge for themselves. P.S I left the company by choice and will admit that I could not work as hard as it was required to succeed in this company. Yet, have no hard feelings. Move on.....Ladies and Gentlemen
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#26 UPDATE EX-employee responds

It's the same Nichole

AUTHOR: P - (U.S.A.)

Oh no Nichole, C.K. is the same type of thing as Signal marketing. I worked for C.K. for 3 weeks and I didn't do a thorough research of the company before I took the job. I was blinded by the deceptive work description and I even asked about benefits 2 weeks in a row and was told a different story each time.

Long hours and little pay are the name of the game. I saw this but was under the impression that the hours would diminish as I got promoted....boy was I wrong.

When you start you are too be at work no later then 7:45 AM and be back at the office by 6 PM only to wait around until 6:30 before you can go home. When you reach leadership you are expected to be in no later then 7:15 AM and work the same hours. Sometimes 6:30 AM on Fridays.

After catching on to the scam I decided to delve deeper into what was really going on. Some of the people I talked to had a different life story each time I talked to them and seemed to forget what story they had told me previously. Multiple people living together, road trips sharing dwellings and not hotels, things just seemed very strange, not to mention the chants and "motivational speeches".

This is one experience I will never forget, but I will have to say that many of the people employed there are good people that are just trying to find themselves. Perhaps they will see that Cydcor and the affiliates is a growing experience in life and hopefully they can learn from the experience before they find themselves hurt, and back at square one. Business is brutal and in a down economy this type of marketing scheme looks like gold at first glance. Word to the wise, do a tremendous amount of research on a potential employer before you accept a position. Good luck!
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#27 Author of original report

sincerest apologies to the folks at CK

AUTHOR: Nicole - (U.S.A.)

My sincerest apologies to the folks at CK Associates, who are not remotely affiliated with the negative experience I had with Signal Marketing.

CK Associates' unfortunate location sharing office space with Signal Marketing led me to believe that they were, in fact, the same corporation.

Please do not make any assumptions about CK Associates based on my experience with their neighbors.
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#28 UPDATE EX-employee responds

you would be so surprized...

AUTHOR: todd - (U.S.A.)

Nicole I am so happy you found the ripoffreport.

I am so glad you saw these warnings and are more the wiser for it.

People do succeed in ds-max. But it is one in hundreds that will make it to ownership and of them, less than 5% will really ever make any real money.

I spent years in this pyramid cult for nothing. Horribly, I influenced others to stay.

Read the other reports under "DS-max" and also "ds max". You will find more responses there.
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