• Report: #148955

Complaint Review: Dallas Patriots Baseball

  • Submitted: Fri, July 08, 2005
  • Updated: Mon, June 11, 2012

  • Reported By:dallas Texas
Dallas Patriots Baseball
Forney, Texas U.S.A.

Dallas Patriots Baseball False promises by Logan Stout and Dallas Patriots. $1500 paid but games and tournaments not delivered Forney Texas

*Consumer Comment: Sickening experience

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Definitely Customers!

*Consumer Comment: Put it in writing

*REBUTTAL Individual responds: We Got Exactly What We Were Told

*Consumer Comment: Dallas Morning News article on youth sports

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Response To Tournaments

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Response To Tournaments

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Response To Tournaments

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Response To Tournaments

*Consumer Suggestion: Put it in writing

*Author of original report: I urge parents who are cosidering the Patriots

*Consumer Comment: View from another parent

*Author of original report: dallas patriots

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: My last comments about this...

*Author of original report: Dallas Patriots Baseball False promises by Logan Stout and Dallas Patriots. $1500 paid but games and tournaments not delivered Forney Texas

*Author of original report: Dallas Patriots Baseball False promises by Logan Stout and Dallas Patriots. $1500 paid but games and tournaments not delivered Forney Texas

*Author of original report: Dallas Patriots Baseball False promises by Logan Stout and Dallas Patriots. $1500 paid but games and tournaments not delivered Forney Texas

*Author of original report: Dallas Patriots Baseball False promises by Logan Stout and Dallas Patriots. $1500 paid but games and tournaments not delivered Forney Texas

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Dallas Patriots and Logan Stout

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Dallas Patriots and Logan Stout

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Logan Stout and the Dallas Patriots are a deceitful organization. Each team memeber, 15 per team, paid $1500 to play for the Patriots. We were promised 4 showcase tournaments and 2 additional tournaments but we only played 1 showcase and 1 tournament with 1 tournament left.

After all expenses of the team are paid, Stout will profit between $10,000 and 12,000 per team. The estimate of expenses are $3700 for BBI league, $3000 for paid coaches, 500 travel expense, $2000 for tournament fees and you can see that we were gouged. The uniform jerseys were used and have to be returned.

Multiply that by 2 teams per age group and thats very nice money for someone I've only seen once. I don't mind a person making a profit but I want what is promised. I am planning legal action after the season has been completed. There are lots of teams out there so choose careful and stay away from the Dallas Patriots.

Chad
dallas, Texas
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 07/08/2005 08:49 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Dallas-Patriots-Baseball/Forney-Texas/Dallas-Patriots-Baseball-False-promises-by-Logan-Stout-and-Dallas-Patriots-1500-paid-bu-148955. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 Consumer Comment

Sickening experience

AUTHOR: Tell It - (United States of America)

The Patriot organization makes me sick to my stomach.  The organization promised us league play, tournaments and practices.  We got no league play, fewer than the promised number of tournaments and practices on a city park field (full of cracks). Outcome = minus $2000+ for the Spring season.

The team started out strong because of all the talented kids that were picked up on the team.  As the season went on the team got worse (maybe because of the coach telling the kids that everything was their fault.)  As the parents became fed up, the coach held a meeting to tell them that it was their fault.  Guess the guy is trying to salvage his ego.  All you have to do though is look at his record.  Every season his team falls apart and the teams below him in the organization (same age group) pass his team up in tournaments.

As long as Logan and his cohorts are getting paid, taking vacations together, etc.  the madness will continue.  They tear kids down, want to be paid, and are unable to take any contructive criticism.  These young kids running the organization have no idea how to treat the customer and or the kids.

Glad to leave the Patriots!  They need us, we don't need them.

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#2 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Definitely Customers!

AUTHOR: High School Baseball Coach - (United States of America)

I think Chad & Mike are both DP customers for sure!  What they say rings true to the ears of most Dallas Patiots parents, I suspect.

To me, Logan Stout is a cross between a television evangelist and a snake oil salesman.  As one parent phrased it, "I feel like I need to take a shower whenever I have been around him."  I agree that he probably does oversell his product a bit, and preferential treatment is probably given to those who pay for the private lessons or contribute to his foundation.  Still, he offers a very fine baseball product.  Your developing player will improve in the Dallas Patriots organization.  They aren't the best baseball club out there, but they are pretty darn good.  If you can stomache the Logan show, then by all means consider the Dallas Patriots.  If it's all a little too much for you, as it was for me, you'll be just fine taking your business elsewhere.  :-)

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#3 Consumer Comment

Put it in writing

AUTHOR: Mike - (U.S.A.)

I'm glad that Frank's son enjoyed playing with the Patriots. As Frank stated in his maronthan report, he was told the team would play 10-12 tournament and I guess your son's team did.



The older teams were told they would travel and play 6-7 tournaments/showcases and they didn't. Playing only 33 games which included only 4 tournaments for $1500 is excessive.



15 players times $1500 equals $22500. In Chad's intial report he lays out the estimated expenditures. Chad also said the profit was between $10000-$12000. This amount does not seem extreme even if Chad is off on his estimates in some places since Chad gave a window of $2000 for profit.



How can a whole team of parents be mistaken about what they were told? Get the rosters and poll them.



As I have said in my prior responses, "PUT IT IN WRITING".
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#4 REBUTTAL Individual responds

We Got Exactly What We Were Told

AUTHOR: Frank - (U.S.A.)

I may make some people mad, I may step on some toes but here goes.... I understand that there might be a few select, very select, dissatisfied people out there that feel they have been done wrong by the Dallas Patriots or Logan Stout. I will admit openly that the 14u Patriots Season was very frustrating at times. You can try and blame it on the Organization, the staff or whom ever you want, but the simple fact is the TEAM did not execute when the opportunities were there. No, I did not see eye to eye on everything we did, but we signed on, we paid our money and we played baseball.

Everything I have seen written by Logan Stout is pretty much fact as I see it! We knew coming in there was absolutely no guarantee about playing time. The Players had to be productive to compete for playing time and positions. We ALL knew going in that there was a No Money Back Guarantee if you Quit! We ALL knew Logan would only coach for a short time before turning it over to his other Coaches when he went to play baseball in Ft. Worth. No,... I didn't expect it to be so quick... but there again he told us ALL that very thing up front. He told us the team would play in about 10-12 Tournaments. Logan introduced the 14u Coaches to me the day my son tried out and was offered a position. I was in the same meeting in Forney with everyone else and taking notes. I had certain questions and I asked them but I also heard a lot of silence. I admit I expected a little more from the Players and from the Coaches but I do remember Logan stating in that meeting it was going to be a learning curve for all of us. Still the main fact is that the Players had to be productive. They needed to produce offensively, produce defensively and produce at the mound if he was a pitcher and to earn his position on this team. They needed to be or learn to be versatile Players. They needed to be coachable Players. They needed to be disciplined, determined and goal oriented. This level and this age group is were you have to start cutting the mustard to play and keep your position. It's not just given to you because your friends of the dad that's friends of the coach or your best friend is on the team and so you think you should be too. You have to be prepared both physical and mentally and be able to keep up with those demands. You have to work at it... on your own time! Not just at practice. Not just at lessons. You needed to do something to improve yourself and your skills. Work at it in your own backyard, down at the local park or just in your living room. Stretching, working out trying to make some kind of improvement. Read about baseball, learn the in's and out's of this game.... ANYTHING! But showing up for practice or much worse for a game and that being the first time you had your glove on or your bat in your hands all week WON'T CUT IT! If for some reason you think this is just for fun or it's just something to do to pass the time, your at the wrong place, the wrong level and probably wasting time and money. I do believe we had some talented Players that were dedicated and expressed a good work ethic. There are Players out there that take this game very serious and for this family especially, we consider it to be like a Trade School! We take it very serious and I do mean SERIOUS! I will tell you I do not drive 400-500 miles a week for lessons, games or practices just because I like driving my TRUCK! We don't spend $5,000.00-$6,000.00 a season on fees, uniforms, bats, gloves, cleats, sliders, bags, equipment, fuel, food, motel/hotel expenses etc., etc., just to have FUN! It's an INVESTMENT! An investment in our son. We are trying to help develop him into a High School and hopefully a College Level Player. THAT is DEFINITELY OUR GOAL! Keeping his grades up in SCHOOL is DEFINITELY OUR GOAL! Learning to be a respected individual ON and OFF the Field is DEFINITELY OUR GOAL! It's tough and it's rough and there are going to be good times and bad times. Unfortunately it is just going to get tougher and harder.



I will not discuss the playing time of other Players on this team, that was strictly between them and their Coaches. I will discuss my son's playing time however... YES... He got A LOT of playing time! Out of 45 Games played by the 14u Dallas Patriots (48 scheduled 3 games were cancelled) he played in 41, started in 40 and played defensively in 36 games for a total of 178 innings. He only missed one or two practices or games wither due to illness or a death in the family. Was the team a success? Not if you judge it solely by their record of 8 Wins and 37 Losses in both league and tournament play. Those are FACTS! Facts that can not be disputed by either side. I specifically made it MY mission to keep a record of My son's season. To give him and I some unit of measure to evaluate HIS Successes and FAILURES for the season. The 14u Dallas Patriots played in (3) Triple Crown Sports Division I Tournaments, (4) Super Series Nationals Division Tournaments, (2) USSSA and (1) USSSA Super NIT Majors Division Tournaments. Did he make mistakes? YES HE DID and he heard about it from US probably a lot worse than from any of his Coaches. I will tell you in our view point it is DEFINITELY NOT OKAY to MAKE MENTAL ERRORS. It is DEFINITELY NOT OKAY to LOOK AT A STRIKE THREE CALL! Yes I will agree there will be those bad hops or balls kicked off the heel of the glove or mis-thrown balls, but to NOT put forth an effort or to not HUSTLE on a play is unacceptable. Letting a easy fly ball drop in front of you or much worse have it fall out of your glove after you have CAUGHT IT... is unacceptable. Not knowing were to throw the ball is.... unacceptable!.... in my opinion of course.



Was there successes in other places within this team? Yes Absolutely! We faced some of the toughest teams, the fastest pitchers, the best hitters and the best coaches this State has to offer. Faced with what seemed terrible odds everyone of you should be proud of how YOUR Player and this Team fought and fought time and time again. What did they learn from it all? INTESTINAL FORTITUDE! or in other words GUTS! It's tough at the top, nothings handed to you, you have to fight for what you want and again if you do not believe that then pull the covers up over your head and blame it on someone else, but MOVE OVER and let the rest of us pass you by. Our Players are not kids, they are Young Men making that transition into MEN. Believe me folks in Less than 3-4 years for some of these Players, they could be fighting for this Country and putting their lives on the line every minute of everyday. You better wake up start smelling the coffee and quit coddling your son's!

Yes my son left the team with one tournament left to be played. It was a decision that was very difficult for us to make. The decision was not based on the Players, the Coaching Staff, Logan Stout or how the season had gone. It was based on the fact there was an Opportunity for my son to gain more experience and to bring back to this organization what he had learned or accomplished after he was done. Was it the right decision? I can not answer that yet but I thought so at the time. Did his not playing at that 4th of July Tournament hurt the team? I don't think so. I highly doubt he could have made that kind of difference of the outcome of that tournament. Not just One Player can make that kind of difference, it takes all 9 Players on the field to make the difference and to win ball games. I can tell you it was difficult for him to be there that Saturday and not play and be a part of the Patriots. But he wanted to be there to show his fellow teammates that he supported them no matter what was happening to him. Yes he felt like he had betrayed them, that he had let them down. Did he learn something from that? YA DARN RIGHT HE DID! I think this organization has a lot to offer still. We are trying to look at the BIG Picture not just through a little portal. I admit some of you may not share the same views as we have but I will say this for Logan Stout and the Patriots Organization. Wade wants to still BE A PATRIOT and we SUPPORT THAT FULLY!!
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#5 Consumer Comment

Dallas Morning News article on youth sports

AUTHOR: Mike - (U.S.A.)

Logan I have read your last response. In the Dallas Morning News article written on 7-24-2005, it talks about the money spent on youth sports. In the article it speaks of the Dallas Tigers. It says that they choose to play league games only on the weekdays so they can play tournaments on the weekend. It also says they will play about 65 games and pay $1500.



My relative's 15-16 year old team only played 33 (35 if you count the two won by forfeit) games. They also paid $1500. Where is the money.



You said, in your response, that you did say that the teams would play at DBU, UTA, Olka., Omaha, etc. but not one team play at all these places. I have been to a few games to watch and no one really knows who I am. I sat and listen to the parents talk about how they were not getting enough games for their money. These parents seem to be on the most part college educated parents, a couple of teachers, fireman, successful businessman, managers, policeofficer. People that I would not think would misunderstand what they were told nor baseball in general.



As I said in my first reponse that a solution would be to put tournament/showcases in writing. It sounds as if you are not willing to do that. I don't know Chad but his story sounds very similar to what I have heard at the games I have been to. If you want your organization to be successful you must be responsive to the customers which are the parents.
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#6 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Response To Tournaments

AUTHOR: Logan - (U.S.A.)

Here is the truth about the tournaments. It appears their are individuals simply giving their opinions about what they have heard, etc. The truth is, we were booked. Our schedule was jam packed for the 16's. The Mickey Mantle Qualifier was canceled because only 11 teams entered when they had to have 16. Once we were notified there was not going to be a tourney, it was too late to enter another one. We delivered on everything we said we would. I do not understand where you, or others for that matter, feel you were misled. I never said what you all are saying I said. We never intended to mislead peopel. We never said things that could mislead people. Why in the world would we do that? We recruit players to play for us for 4 plus years, not just one season. Why would we make up something, knowing we could lose players. If a tournament that we sign up for does not make, we cannot control that. We participate in AABC. The best sanction there is for 15-18 year old players. Therefore, we enter all the qualifiers we can. We never know when they are until they release the tournament dates. When they do, we sign up, and then we fill showcases after that. Moreover, 15-16 year old kids don't need to be focused on showcases anyways. Once or two are fine, but scouts do not go watch 15-16's until they get to the playoffs. When contracts are handed out, we do not have the dates of the AABC qualifiers. Therefore, how could I "promise" where the teams would be playing. I do tell the groups at our tryouts (which range from 8-18 year olds) that our organization takes our teams all over the country and we play at schools such as Oklahoma State, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Baylor, UTA, DBU, etc., and we have and we did again this year. We never promised each team plays at all of those places. We never even thought of it or even hinted at it. I do not know where some of you gather your information. I do not say that to be rude, I simply say that because I am baffled that someone would say such a thing. All I can think off is you all are from other organizations, and you are trying to throw mud about the Dallas Patriots. It appears to me that some of you are simply confused. It is not realistic for one team to play at all of those places in one summer and still play AABC. "Chad" even metions that when his son was younger they played around 60 games or so. My response to that is this: 14u kids start in February and end in July. 16's only have two months to play. We are very clear that we want to win the AABC World Series. That is one of our main objectives. I would love to sit down and speak with anyone that says I "promised" that we would be going to all of these places. They need to be better informed as to how everything works. Again, one of two things are taking place here: the individuals writing these comments are not from our organization, or they are really confused. Either way, we send out end of the season comment cards, and we look forward to hearing from all of our parents in the next week or so.
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#7 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Response To Tournaments

AUTHOR: Logan - (U.S.A.)

Here is the truth about the tournaments. It appears their are individuals simply giving their opinions about what they have heard, etc. The truth is, we were booked. Our schedule was jam packed for the 16's. The Mickey Mantle Qualifier was canceled because only 11 teams entered when they had to have 16. Once we were notified there was not going to be a tourney, it was too late to enter another one. We delivered on everything we said we would. I do not understand where you, or others for that matter, feel you were misled. I never said what you all are saying I said. We never intended to mislead peopel. We never said things that could mislead people. Why in the world would we do that? We recruit players to play for us for 4 plus years, not just one season. Why would we make up something, knowing we could lose players. If a tournament that we sign up for does not make, we cannot control that. We participate in AABC. The best sanction there is for 15-18 year old players. Therefore, we enter all the qualifiers we can. We never know when they are until they release the tournament dates. When they do, we sign up, and then we fill showcases after that. Moreover, 15-16 year old kids don't need to be focused on showcases anyways. Once or two are fine, but scouts do not go watch 15-16's until they get to the playoffs. When contracts are handed out, we do not have the dates of the AABC qualifiers. Therefore, how could I "promise" where the teams would be playing. I do tell the groups at our tryouts (which range from 8-18 year olds) that our organization takes our teams all over the country and we play at schools such as Oklahoma State, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Baylor, UTA, DBU, etc., and we have and we did again this year. We never promised each team plays at all of those places. We never even thought of it or even hinted at it. I do not know where some of you gather your information. I do not say that to be rude, I simply say that because I am baffled that someone would say such a thing. All I can think off is you all are from other organizations, and you are trying to throw mud about the Dallas Patriots. It appears to me that some of you are simply confused. It is not realistic for one team to play at all of those places in one summer and still play AABC. "Chad" even metions that when his son was younger they played around 60 games or so. My response to that is this: 14u kids start in February and end in July. 16's only have two months to play. We are very clear that we want to win the AABC World Series. That is one of our main objectives. I would love to sit down and speak with anyone that says I "promised" that we would be going to all of these places. They need to be better informed as to how everything works. Again, one of two things are taking place here: the individuals writing these comments are not from our organization, or they are really confused. Either way, we send out end of the season comment cards, and we look forward to hearing from all of our parents in the next week or so.
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#8 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Response To Tournaments

AUTHOR: Logan - (U.S.A.)

Here is the truth about the tournaments. It appears their are individuals simply giving their opinions about what they have heard, etc. The truth is, we were booked. Our schedule was jam packed for the 16's. The Mickey Mantle Qualifier was canceled because only 11 teams entered when they had to have 16. Once we were notified there was not going to be a tourney, it was too late to enter another one. We delivered on everything we said we would. I do not understand where you, or others for that matter, feel you were misled. I never said what you all are saying I said. We never intended to mislead peopel. We never said things that could mislead people. Why in the world would we do that? We recruit players to play for us for 4 plus years, not just one season. Why would we make up something, knowing we could lose players. If a tournament that we sign up for does not make, we cannot control that. We participate in AABC. The best sanction there is for 15-18 year old players. Therefore, we enter all the qualifiers we can. We never know when they are until they release the tournament dates. When they do, we sign up, and then we fill showcases after that. Moreover, 15-16 year old kids don't need to be focused on showcases anyways. Once or two are fine, but scouts do not go watch 15-16's until they get to the playoffs. When contracts are handed out, we do not have the dates of the AABC qualifiers. Therefore, how could I "promise" where the teams would be playing. I do tell the groups at our tryouts (which range from 8-18 year olds) that our organization takes our teams all over the country and we play at schools such as Oklahoma State, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Baylor, UTA, DBU, etc., and we have and we did again this year. We never promised each team plays at all of those places. We never even thought of it or even hinted at it. I do not know where some of you gather your information. I do not say that to be rude, I simply say that because I am baffled that someone would say such a thing. All I can think off is you all are from other organizations, and you are trying to throw mud about the Dallas Patriots. It appears to me that some of you are simply confused. It is not realistic for one team to play at all of those places in one summer and still play AABC. "Chad" even metions that when his son was younger they played around 60 games or so. My response to that is this: 14u kids start in February and end in July. 16's only have two months to play. We are very clear that we want to win the AABC World Series. That is one of our main objectives. I would love to sit down and speak with anyone that says I "promised" that we would be going to all of these places. They need to be better informed as to how everything works. Again, one of two things are taking place here: the individuals writing these comments are not from our organization, or they are really confused. Either way, we send out end of the season comment cards, and we look forward to hearing from all of our parents in the next week or so.
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#9 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Response To Tournaments

AUTHOR: Logan - (U.S.A.)

Here is the truth about the tournaments. It appears their are individuals simply giving their opinions about what they have heard, etc. The truth is, we were booked. Our schedule was jam packed for the 16's. The Mickey Mantle Qualifier was canceled because only 11 teams entered when they had to have 16. Once we were notified there was not going to be a tourney, it was too late to enter another one. We delivered on everything we said we would. I do not understand where you, or others for that matter, feel you were misled. I never said what you all are saying I said. We never intended to mislead peopel. We never said things that could mislead people. Why in the world would we do that? We recruit players to play for us for 4 plus years, not just one season. Why would we make up something, knowing we could lose players. If a tournament that we sign up for does not make, we cannot control that. We participate in AABC. The best sanction there is for 15-18 year old players. Therefore, we enter all the qualifiers we can. We never know when they are until they release the tournament dates. When they do, we sign up, and then we fill showcases after that. Moreover, 15-16 year old kids don't need to be focused on showcases anyways. Once or two are fine, but scouts do not go watch 15-16's until they get to the playoffs. When contracts are handed out, we do not have the dates of the AABC qualifiers. Therefore, how could I "promise" where the teams would be playing. I do tell the groups at our tryouts (which range from 8-18 year olds) that our organization takes our teams all over the country and we play at schools such as Oklahoma State, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Baylor, UTA, DBU, etc., and we have and we did again this year. We never promised each team plays at all of those places. We never even thought of it or even hinted at it. I do not know where some of you gather your information. I do not say that to be rude, I simply say that because I am baffled that someone would say such a thing. All I can think off is you all are from other organizations, and you are trying to throw mud about the Dallas Patriots. It appears to me that some of you are simply confused. It is not realistic for one team to play at all of those places in one summer and still play AABC. "Chad" even metions that when his son was younger they played around 60 games or so. My response to that is this: 14u kids start in February and end in July. 16's only have two months to play. We are very clear that we want to win the AABC World Series. That is one of our main objectives. I would love to sit down and speak with anyone that says I "promised" that we would be going to all of these places. They need to be better informed as to how everything works. Again, one of two things are taking place here: the individuals writing these comments are not from our organization, or they are really confused. Either way, we send out end of the season comment cards, and we look forward to hearing from all of our parents in the next week or so.
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#10 Consumer Suggestion

Put it in writing

AUTHOR: Mike - (U.S.A.)

I have read all of the responses by Chad and Logan Stout. Logan needs to put tournament and showcase appearances in writing. I also have a relative on the Patriots 15-16 year old team. The player and parents feel they have not been given the tournaments promised.



They have expressed to me that they should have gotten what they were promised in writing. Though in Texas verbal statements can hold up in a court of law. In the defense of the parents for not asking it to be put in writing is that they have never had to have it in writing when playing for other organizations. They have always played the tournaments that was promised.



A solution would be to put it in writing in the future then this type of situation could be avoided. Fifteen hundred dollars is alot of money. If everything is in writing then parents and players can make an informed decision about the Patriots.
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#11 Author of original report

I urge parents who are cosidering the Patriots

AUTHOR: Chad - (U.S.A.)

Regarding the comments made by R from Austin TX. Yes anyone can put any comments on the website just as you have. I urge parents who are cosidering the Patriots as one of their choices do their homework. Talk to the parents of the 15 to 18 year olds teams and asked if they feel as if they got their $1500 worth of games.



I'm glad your son has had a great time with the Patriots. My comments was not of playing time but what we were getting for our money. The younger age players, 14 and under play more games and tournaments as I thought our age group would do. Last year we played about 65-70 games. This year we were on pace to play 30-35 and I paid more money. This issue was about money paid and games promised not delivered.
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#12 Consumer Comment

View from another parent

AUTHOR: R - (U.S.A.)

I should probably let this silly thing die, but after I read some of the things in the original author's post, I could not resist.



My son plays on another Patriots team, an older one I believe. He is a good baseball player, but by no means the star of the team.



I can't speak directly to "Chad's" situation, but all I can say is that I have not seen anything deceitful about the way the organization has been run. As I said in another thread, Logan Stout, the owner, has bent over backwards to accomodate our kid, who is from out of town. Our team was assigned two great coaches, who have also tried their very best to balance winning in a competetive baseball setting, with getting some decent playing time and otherwise helping the boys grow both as baseball players and young men. We have also gotten the chance to get to know some of the other coaches and parents - all outstanding people who have open their hearts and homes to us and our son.



The lesson issue confuses me. My son has never been pressured to take lessons from any of the Pats people - shoot, he has never even been OFFERED a lesson. That said, he gets good feedback from his coaches and from Logan. He has played directly for Logan in the past and would certainly do it again. He gets decent playing time - and it certainly has nothing whatsoever to do with lessons or anything of the sort. Imperfect though he may be [like the rest of us], I get the strong impression that our coach likes to win games and get the best out of the kids in the process.



I can't speak for all the parents on our particular Pats team, but for the most part, they all seem satisfied. I am sure some have some issues, and for those that do, they will most likely take it up with Logan or otherwise vote with their feet after the season is over. Knowing them, however, I don't expect any vicious website postings from them!



Meanwhile, there must be a reason why parents who are a lot more knowledgeable about select ball than I am have parted with their money, let their kids wear the Patriots colors, and for the most part would probably do it again.



In closing, let's all remember that anyone can post just about anything about anybody, and I just hope that those who don't have anything better to do and stumble accross this site consider the context of "Chad's" comments, and otherwise do their homework.
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#13 Author of original report

dallas patriots

AUTHOR: Chad - (U.S.A.)

Logan I do not know where false accusations have been made by my written statements. Lets break down what I have said. Let us start with deceitful, to give false impressions. At the tryouts you talked about how the teams would be traveling to Omaha, Austin, Oklahoma, San Antonio to attended showcases/tournaments.



The way I understood was that we would be traveling as a team to all of the above. I didn't realize that you meant 1 team would travel to each. That was deceitful.



There is 15 players on each team 15, 16 and 17 year old age group and two teams of each. So at $1500 per player that is $22,500 per team. You mention other expenses but never economies of scale.



The BBI fee is on there website at bbidallas.org where it also discusses the fact that they provide 4 dozen balls and insurance. Since the team has only traveled out of town once, I estimated the expense at $500. I know what I paid in hotel bills and food which was around that amount.



The coaches salary, I asked the coach.



The tournament expenses I looked up similar tournaments and estimated.



About taking lessons to earn more playing time. If you take lessons you get better and you earn more playing time. It could be taken in other ways, but Logan let your consious decide.



Now let us look at slander which is the utterance of false charges. I think you mean libel which is written statements. You only libel if you spread false charges. I know what you told me about the tournaments so no libel exists there. I feel I was overcharge for the amount of tournaments that we played. I have checked with my attorney, no libel there. That is a matter of opinion.



Logan you are a salesman and a good one at that. You got me to write a check for $1500 on your word that we would play lots of games and tournaments. But if want to proceed with legal actions feel free to do so.



Since we are no longer a Patriot I will not comment any further, written or verbal, about your organization.
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#14 REBUTTAL Owner of company

My last comments about this...

AUTHOR: Logan - (U.S.A.)

Again,

I would be happy to speak with "Chad" about his views on things. I am aware that "Chad" is a parent. Again, we have to block off dates for BBI. We do not know when BBI will schedule games and when they won't. We cannot change the schedule once we turn it into the league. If "Chad" is a part of our organization, then he would have to be in the 15-18 age group. More than likely he would be with the 16 year old age group. For the record, I have spoken with many parents of the 16 year old teams, and not a single one of the parents said they were told they would be playing in 4 showcases plus two tournaments. In fact, they denied it. Moreover, many of them were very upset at this article.



As to "Chad's" completly false views about our fincancials, it appears he is very confused. We have never once said anything about having to get private lessons to play for us. Also, our indoor facility is there for any Patriot to use for free if they so please, assuming lessons aren't going on at that time. We have many players that take advantage of this opportunity. No one is "gouged" of anything. Our contracts are very clear. There is a non-refundable fee. Our contracts also are state that no playing time is guaranteed. No where in the contracts that all of our parents sign does it say anything about showcases. Facts are facts. Again, I would be more than happy to speak with "Chad" about his confusion. We hope that all of our players and parents are happy. However, let's face it, in select baseball,the best players play, and if we have more than 9 players on the team, then the chances are some dad, mom, and player will not be happy because there son is not getting to play as much as the mom, dad, and son think they should. It is unfortunate, but is is reality, thus the reason we bring this up in the contract they sign.



In conclusion, every negative comment we have dealt with on this website over the last few weeks has been a direct result of a player not getting the playing time they feel they should recieve. In other words, we have folks that want to back out of their contracts. The Dallas Patriots do not back out on the kids we select. We honor out contract. We have a few parents that do not wish to honor ours. Therefore, they go to bad mouthing the Patriots despite the fact the Patriots did nothing wrong. Many organizations in select baseball deal with this, it is nothing new. However, when my name, Logan Stout is brought up, and false accusations our made, we do intervene (our attorney and our organization). Slander and defamation of character are a problem. This organzation is built on doing things the right way for the right reasons. We certainly do not enjoy taking people to court, however, we are fully prepared to do so, and are in the process of doing so. We are upfront about and honest. We may make mistakes like any company does, however we do all we can to correct any problems and to keep people happy. However, we will not be blasted publicly by false reports. Again, I have yet to recieve a phone call or an email from "Chad". I am willing to discuss any problems with "Chad", and to correct any confusions he is dealing with at this time.



Logan Stout
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#15 Author of original report

Dallas Patriots Baseball False promises by Logan Stout and Dallas Patriots. $1500 paid but games and tournaments not delivered Forney Texas

AUTHOR: Chad - (U.S.A.)

Let me start by saying that Stout doesn't even know who writes the checks for the players. I am not a player so yes there is no player by that name. He is too busy running to the bank to cash the checks to know who wrote them.



At this level every player has his own bat and helmet. The insurance as well as 4 dozen baseballs are provided by BBI. I bought the T shirts. We have never practiced at the indoor facility. The indoor facility is where private lessons are given. The private lessons pay for all indoor facility expenses, $70 per hour for lessons, with 4 or 5 lessons going at a time. By taking private lessons you can earn more playing time. Okay I left out $25 per team for a water cooler.



Every parent on the team knows what was said about the amount of tournaments and showcases that were to be played. For Stout to say that there wasn't enough time, that's absurd. There have been several weekends with no games. We went 8 days straight with no games 6-11-05 to 6-20-05.



There are two teams for each age group 15 thru 17.



Logan's rebuttal is just to try and cover up gouging the parents. Again beware of the Dallas Patriots , a deceitful organization.
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#16 Author of original report

Dallas Patriots Baseball False promises by Logan Stout and Dallas Patriots. $1500 paid but games and tournaments not delivered Forney Texas

AUTHOR: Chad - (U.S.A.)

Let me start by saying that Stout doesn't even know who writes the checks for the players. I am not a player so yes there is no player by that name. He is too busy running to the bank to cash the checks to know who wrote them.



At this level every player has his own bat and helmet. The insurance as well as 4 dozen baseballs are provided by BBI. I bought the T shirts. We have never practiced at the indoor facility. The indoor facility is where private lessons are given. The private lessons pay for all indoor facility expenses, $70 per hour for lessons, with 4 or 5 lessons going at a time. By taking private lessons you can earn more playing time. Okay I left out $25 per team for a water cooler.



Every parent on the team knows what was said about the amount of tournaments and showcases that were to be played. For Stout to say that there wasn't enough time, that's absurd. There have been several weekends with no games. We went 8 days straight with no games 6-11-05 to 6-20-05.



There are two teams for each age group 15 thru 17.



Logan's rebuttal is just to try and cover up gouging the parents. Again beware of the Dallas Patriots , a deceitful organization.
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#17 Author of original report

Dallas Patriots Baseball False promises by Logan Stout and Dallas Patriots. $1500 paid but games and tournaments not delivered Forney Texas

AUTHOR: Chad - (U.S.A.)

Let me start by saying that Stout doesn't even know who writes the checks for the players. I am not a player so yes there is no player by that name. He is too busy running to the bank to cash the checks to know who wrote them.



At this level every player has his own bat and helmet. The insurance as well as 4 dozen baseballs are provided by BBI. I bought the T shirts. We have never practiced at the indoor facility. The indoor facility is where private lessons are given. The private lessons pay for all indoor facility expenses, $70 per hour for lessons, with 4 or 5 lessons going at a time. By taking private lessons you can earn more playing time. Okay I left out $25 per team for a water cooler.



Every parent on the team knows what was said about the amount of tournaments and showcases that were to be played. For Stout to say that there wasn't enough time, that's absurd. There have been several weekends with no games. We went 8 days straight with no games 6-11-05 to 6-20-05.



There are two teams for each age group 15 thru 17.



Logan's rebuttal is just to try and cover up gouging the parents. Again beware of the Dallas Patriots , a deceitful organization.
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#18 Author of original report

Dallas Patriots Baseball False promises by Logan Stout and Dallas Patriots. $1500 paid but games and tournaments not delivered Forney Texas

AUTHOR: Chad - (U.S.A.)

Let me start by saying that Stout doesn't even know who writes the checks for the players. I am not a player so yes there is no player by that name. He is too busy running to the bank to cash the checks to know who wrote them.



At this level every player has his own bat and helmet. The insurance as well as 4 dozen baseballs are provided by BBI. I bought the T shirts. We have never practiced at the indoor facility. The indoor facility is where private lessons are given. The private lessons pay for all indoor facility expenses, $70 per hour for lessons, with 4 or 5 lessons going at a time. By taking private lessons you can earn more playing time. Okay I left out $25 per team for a water cooler.



Every parent on the team knows what was said about the amount of tournaments and showcases that were to be played. For Stout to say that there wasn't enough time, that's absurd. There have been several weekends with no games. We went 8 days straight with no games 6-11-05 to 6-20-05.



There are two teams for each age group 15 thru 17.



Logan's rebuttal is just to try and cover up gouging the parents. Again beware of the Dallas Patriots , a deceitful organization.
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#19 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Dallas Patriots and Logan Stout

AUTHOR: Logan - (U.S.A.)

I am Logan Stout, owner of the Dallas Patriots and am responding to the report made by "Chad". I will first say that we do not have a Chad in our organization, so this is probably made up. However, I will respond to the many false accusations listed. First, we are not a deceitful organization. We are known for being the exact opposite. We do not have 15 players on each team. I don't know what team Chad is referring to, but I do know that we have never promised that we would play 4 showcases. We have from June 1st-July 13th to play both our league games and any tournaments and showcases we may want to play. Therefore, we have about 45 days to play before the playoffs start. We have to block off 22 dates for league play. Now we are down to 23 dates to play games. Tournaments usually start on a Thursday, meaning you will have to travel on a Wednesday to get there. Therefore, a typical tournament takes 5 days. Now, if we play as many days as we can, then we could still only schedule 4 tournaments. Chad says we promised him 4 showcases and 2 additional tournaments. This is not even possible. We could only schedule 4 and that is assuming we don't want any days off at all during the summer. Moreover, we are an organization that emphasizes practice. We practice on a regular basis. Sometimes we even practice on the days we play.



In his next paragraph, Chad says, Stout will profit between $10,000 and 12,000 per team. I have to interject something here. I wish we could do so! That would make things a lot easier. The fact is Chad obviously has no idea how much it costs to run a program. Moreover, Stout doesn't profit, the Dallas Patriots are getting paid. Checks are made out to the Dallas Patriots, not Stout. Chad then begins to break down how much he thinks it costs to run a program. All Chad alludes to are the BBI costs, he only estimates $3000 for coaches, he only estimates $500 for travel expenses, and he only estimates $2000 for tournament expenses. He also says the uniform jerseys were used. Chad not only underestimated the costs he mentioned, but he also leaves out cell phones, t-shirts, hats, our indoor facility, coaches uniforms, coaches gas expenses, baseballs, water coolers, helmets, bats, field rentals, insurance, our secretary fees, non-coaching employees, our website, etc. This list goes on and on. Any business owner will be happy to inform you that there are more little fees associated with owning your own business than anyone could imagine. Our biggest fee of course is tax. We have to pay our merchant accounts, CPA, etc. It is amazing. On Chad's behalf, I understand how someone who has never had to do this, could be completely disillusioned.



In his last paragraph, Chad says we have two teams per age group, which we do not. Then he mentions he has only seen me once. I never said he would ever see me. I do not coach any teams during the summer. I play pro baseball myself. How would I see him? We have not broken any promises, and Chad has never once contacted me about anything. I can only believe that Chad is a competitor of ours trying to make us look bad by making up information and posting it for the public to see. Again, we do not even have a Chad.
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#20 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Dallas Patriots and Logan Stout

AUTHOR: Logan - (U.S.A.)

I am Logan Stout, owner of the Dallas Patriots and am responding to the report made by "Chad". I will first say that we do not have a Chad in our organization, so this is probably made up. However, I will respond to the many false accusations listed. First, we are not a deceitful organization. We are known for being the exact opposite. We do not have 15 players on each team. I don't know what team Chad is referring to, but I do know that we have never promised that we would play 4 showcases. We have from June 1st-July 13th to play both our league games and any tournaments and showcases we may want to play. Therefore, we have about 45 days to play before the playoffs start. We have to block off 22 dates for league play. Now we are down to 23 dates to play games. Tournaments usually start on a Thursday, meaning you will have to travel on a Wednesday to get there. Therefore, a typical tournament takes 5 days. Now, if we play as many days as we can, then we could still only schedule 4 tournaments. Chad says we promised him 4 showcases and 2 additional tournaments. This is not even possible. We could only schedule 4 and that is assuming we don't want any days off at all during the summer. Moreover, we are an organization that emphasizes practice. We practice on a regular basis. Sometimes we even practice on the days we play.



In his next paragraph, Chad says, Stout will profit between $10,000 and 12,000 per team. I have to interject something here. I wish we could do so! That would make things a lot easier. The fact is Chad obviously has no idea how much it costs to run a program. Moreover, Stout doesn't profit, the Dallas Patriots are getting paid. Checks are made out to the Dallas Patriots, not Stout. Chad then begins to break down how much he thinks it costs to run a program. All Chad alludes to are the BBI costs, he only estimates $3000 for coaches, he only estimates $500 for travel expenses, and he only estimates $2000 for tournament expenses. He also says the uniform jerseys were used. Chad not only underestimated the costs he mentioned, but he also leaves out cell phones, t-shirts, hats, our indoor facility, coaches uniforms, coaches gas expenses, baseballs, water coolers, helmets, bats, field rentals, insurance, our secretary fees, non-coaching employees, our website, etc. This list goes on and on. Any business owner will be happy to inform you that there are more little fees associated with owning your own business than anyone could imagine. Our biggest fee of course is tax. We have to pay our merchant accounts, CPA, etc. It is amazing. On Chad's behalf, I understand how someone who has never had to do this, could be completely disillusioned.



In his last paragraph, Chad says we have two teams per age group, which we do not. Then he mentions he has only seen me once. I never said he would ever see me. I do not coach any teams during the summer. I play pro baseball myself. How would I see him? We have not broken any promises, and Chad has never once contacted me about anything. I can only believe that Chad is a competitor of ours trying to make us look bad by making up information and posting it for the public to see. Again, we do not even have a Chad.
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