• Report: #148704

Complaint Review: Dallas Patriots Baseball

  • Submitted: Wed, July 06, 2005
  • Updated: Sat, July 16, 2005

  • Reported By:Carrollton Texas
Dallas Patriots Baseball
dallaspatriots.com , Texas U.S.A.

Dallas Patriots Baseball Ripoff Logan Stout False advertisement and scam!!! Forney Texas

*Consumer Comment: First-Time Patriot

*REBUTTAL Individual responds: Amazing A replacement for WHAT, SITTING THE BENCH?

*REBUTTAL Individual responds: Dallas Patriots

*Author of original report: Quite the salesman!!

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Dallas Patriots, Logan Stout

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I am writing in response and agreement with the previous report for the Dallas Patriots(from Donna, Garland Texas). I totally agree with everything she has reported. I thought I was being difficult, but I have heard more and more lately in regards to this organization. Logan is out for the money and ONLY the money. I just hope he doesn't give "ministers" a bad rep. That is honestly one of the things that impressed me....due to my child needing that strong influence in his life. I am a single mother of two very active boys. One who is 14 and the other who is 8 years old.

This particular organization catered to the "rich". If you were able to place your child in the batting lessons and things, then your child will play. Practices were NEVER instructional!! They sat there and watched the boys play. Never stopped them and instructed them on what to do. ONLY during the lessons, which were $75.00 a lesson. Then they thought it was amazing that the team lost almost every game they played.....gee I wonder why.

Not only were you paying for the lessons, but were you driving all the way to Forney, TExas. Alot of the parents were under the impression the practices were around the Richardson area....which would have been more of a central location for most on the team.

Most on the team were under the impression that Logan would be the coach, and "claimed" he had much experience in baseball and our boys would get top notch training. I think Logan made maybe a total of 8 games(maybe less). Many of the boys lost their respect for Logan and made the comment that he bailed out on them because they were not winning. Logan obviously has no children to understand the concept of earning respecting, because he demanded it and gave NONE.

My son missed one practice(after being notified on a Wed. for a Friday practice--at the beginning of the season) due to a job I had scheduled for several months. His father refused to help out. His father had him another weekend, therefore he was late that pactice as well. My son I think has played(I promise)a total of two entire hours during the entire season. There was never a set schedule for practices. IF you were lucky to look at the website or email, then you were able to know about them two days before. A couple of the parents were kind enough to start calling everyone to notify for particular events.

When I questioned Logan....his reply was very ugly....he said we were told if we were to approach him or other coaches about playing time...then that would ONLY hurt our boys worse!! Imagine that, speaking to parents that way. Wait a minute, I thought we paid him to teach our children. I am sorry, but these are 13 and 14 year old boys who still needed their parents for many parts of their lives. I explained to him, that he was punishing my child for having a single mother of two boys, who workes 3 jobs; and a lack of a father! He claims all the boys are treated equal when on the field. That is not possible when you are a minister and he actual molding boys other than baseball.

Before expanding this organization, Logan had 16, 17, and 18 year olds......ONES WHO CAN DRIVE, I MIGHT ADD......then that rule about practices and things would be possible to enforce...you can not punish boys for something that was totally unavoidable!!!

My son was hurt during the middle of the season. I spoke with the coach(remember Logan bailed out) about the situation. I promised to have him at all the practices and games possible for support of the team with the exception of out of town tournaments. I told the coach he could help him out and various ways. The coach promised to keep him involved....nope...he did not!!! Finally, I called and just told him my son will not be returning for the remainder of the season.

I will seek my legal options as well....I was going to let the dead dog lie, but I "borrowed" the money so my child could even play on this team....and still paying on the loan. I greatly feel that Logan Stout has STOLEN money from a single mother!!! I feel everyone needs to know before trusting someone who can not be trusted. I have certainly used my "word of mouth" and have been spreading the news of this scam. The funny thing is there are alot more people out there(not even on the team) who are aware of the situations and organization.

Carrollton, Texas

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 07/06/2005 12:34 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Dallas-Patriots-Baseball/Texas/Dallas-Patriots-Baseball-Ripoff-Logan-Stout-False-advertisement-and-scam-Forney-Texas-148704. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 Consumer Comment

First-Time Patriot

AUTHOR: G - (U.S.A.)

My son is playing for the Dallas Patriots for the first time. Although I can only speak of our situation, I just wanted to let everyone know about our experiences thus far with the Patriots.

My son has played select baseball for many years. As a parent, you want to help your child succeed in life and help them achieve their goals. Like many young baseball players, my son dreams of playing college and/or pro baseball, and we felt like the Patriots are one step in that direction.

I met Logan Stout at a try out. We heard about Logan from a friend and were excited about making the team. Logan has been honest and upfront with us. He's been easy to contact and will actually return phone calls. We have had the pleasure to get to know Logan and his associates more and more as the season progresses. He has helped my son and family tremendously. My son enjoys knowing him, and Logan has made a good impact in his life. Although I try and respect Logan's time and privacy, I feel comfortable calling him and talking to him at any time.

We have been blessed to be on the team we are on. From the great coaching staff to the talented players and wonderful parents, I feel good about our decision to play for the Patriots. I think it's amazing when a group of individuals from various backgrounds can come together as a team and give it all they have to be winners. Each time they take the field, I feel that our coaches and players are giving their absolute best efforts to win the ballgame and be successful. To me, that's all you can ask for from anybody.

Having said that, my son has played and sat the bench. As a baseball parent, you want to see your son play all the time. It's hard to watch your son sit on the bench and not get to play, especially when you spend thousands of dollars and drive hundreds of miles to watch and support him throughout the season. It's hard on the kid who is always used to starting and playing every game to ride the pine. Regardless of how I feel, I understand that the only reason we're here is for my son's benefit, not my own.

Imagine this situation for a moment... You're a parent and have a son you love with everything in you. So, much that you would give him the world. You send him off from home to live in another place that's totally different from yours. He goes through life giving everything he has, makes a few good friends, goes through some good times and bad times. He gives so much and has so much love, that he gives his life for the world. That's what God did by sending Jesus to the world to save us. When I think about my son not getting to play as much as I would like for him to or seeing him go through times of discouragement or disappointment, I think about what it must have been like for God to give his only son to save the world by dying on a cross. My son will live to play another day and will get to be home when the season is over. From that perspective, baseball doesn't seem that important.

In closing, I would like to encourage everyone to remember that we will all stand before God and give an account of our lives - the good and the bad. Regardless of how this situation turns out, each of us are accountable for our actions. Don't get me wrong, I'm not perfect or ever will be, but I think it's extremely important for both sides to handle this knowing that.

Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
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#2 REBUTTAL Individual responds

Amazing A replacement for WHAT, SITTING THE BENCH?

AUTHOR: Shanna - (U.S.A.)

I have read over the many reports on this matter with the Dallas Patriots. I have repeatly from Logan about when the kids quit the team it hurts the team and they can't find a replacement. A replacement for WHAT, SITTING THE BENCH? What do you mean replacement.....for what I can see, you don't need one?

I agree with Donna about combining the religion and baseball. YOU have done that Logan. You have the kids PRAY before every game? To me you clearly have involved that yourself. You clearly stated many times about you being a youth minister. That is a good thing for our boys ONLY when used correctly.

True, we signed a contract....too bad we did not have you state all of your statements in a contract as well.....like I said quite the salesman. A mistake to learn from for the future.

My child does NOT need you for a scholarship, he can do it on his own. And if not, I would rather take loans out, and pay to my death than get one from your organization.

As for being a Christian and these comments I have made. Christians are not suppose to lay down and be taken advantage of. I have stated facts and not with the use of ugly words, therefore I have NOT crossed the line. It is our duty to warn other Christians to be the "good stewarts" of our money as specified in the Bible. We are clearly helping others maintain their duty to their family and God.

I have spoken with others who run select baseball organizations and they clearly do NOT agree with you at all. I did accept my son missing a few games for the practices that were missed, BUT the entire season??? I think NOT. And your statement "your son is to approach us about his playing time"...my son DID, I clearly did NOT like the answer he got when he had no control over the situation. You are not too good for us to talk to. I want my child to learn responsibility as do others parents, but for the parents to not even be spoken to or even heard is NOT acceptable! I understand the contracts usually mentions that statement about no guaranteed playing time, but that is usually geared towards parents who complain about their child not playing EVERY inning....but not for ones that NEVER play. Your comment about my child not being that great of an outfielder(in an email at the beginning of the season)......that sure is funny my son has made all stars ALL of his life since 4 years old...and played on other select teams(which that coach cannot believe you even would say that about my son), and the High School coaches already love his speed, and YES ability to play the outfield!!!

As for my child being hurt and "cannot be played". I understand he could not be played, but he could have helped out during practices and other times to be made a part of the team. How can my son hurt the team when he never made part of the team in the first place!! My son asked the coach many times what does he need him to do...the response was nothing.

As for the only parents complaining are the ones of players that did not get to play. Well I have heard many responses from parents of players that ARE playing and I have gotten quite the opposite response....but with your ugliness about parents talking to you about such things makes them leary about doing so and their son end up like ours. I do have the email and willing to post it on here if needed to show how ugly you can be.....quote "if this is ever discussed again(not playing), your son will be kicked off the team". Things in life happen, Logan, which means sometimes prevents us from making previous obligations. Therefore, should be taken into consideration. My son's previous coachs were in shock at the actions of this organization(you). They have known me to literally kill myself to get my two boys where ever they needed to go, and quite amazed how I even do it.....for someone like you to consider differently does upset me. For you to "understand" with your mom and family background, should make you even more open to situations like mine....not run ME in the ground and take my money. I work three jobs to make ends even met, and to have it stolen?

Oh, by the way I certainly do NOT want you praying for me! I want someone who REALLY cares about me and my son to pray for us.
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#3 REBUTTAL Individual responds

Dallas Patriots

AUTHOR: Donna - (U.S.A.)


I was not upset that you used my name. Logan emailed me sometime over the weekend to accuse me of building a "team" with you and Chad. I told him that I did not know either of you (and I don't) and that as of my writing (on that date) I had no contact with either of you and did not plan on calling either of you to testify.

I was very puzzled by Logan's email regarding this site and "Shanna" and "Chad" as once I posted my story I had not checked back.

Best of luck to you and your family.
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#4 Author of original report

Quite the salesman!!

AUTHOR: Shanna - (U.S.A.)

In the rebuttal by Logan Stout....

My son missed a total of two practices and late to one. I DID call and let him and the coaches the situation.

I am not slandering this organization. Logan is damaging it himself. Obviously in talking with people in "the baseball community", he has quite the reputation alright....not one he wants.

Obviously by the rebuttal, you guys can see he is quite the salesman!!

And as mentioning Donna's name....it was already on there.. She had it at the end of her reponse. I typed it exactly how it was on the website. I did not upset anyone, as I only put what was given.
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#5 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Dallas Patriots, Logan Stout

AUTHOR: Logan - (U.S.A.)

This is Logan Stout, owner of the Dallas Patriots, writing in response to Shanna's comments. I will dissect her comments the best I can. I will stick with the facts.

First, Shanna makes a comment that she agrees with "Donna". Donna, was very unhappy that Shanna had mentioned her name on this site. In fact, it appears Donna has taken her comments off of the site. Second, Donna, uses slander and defamation of character when she says, "Logan is ONLY out for the money." Shanna then mentions her son needs a strong influence in her life. I feel for her, as I was raised in a home with a single mom and my brother. However, this is a baseball organization, not a church. I did tell her that I would help in any way that I could, however that will and should have nothing to do with playing time. She was grateful for that and understood. She called me because she felt her son should play more. I informed her that her son needs to talk with the coaches if he wants to know what he needs to do to earn more playing time. I then told her, that if she needed to call us to talk about problems she may be having with her son, we would be happy to help, but playing time was not to be discussed.

Shanna then says, "This particular organization catered to the "rich"." This is completely false, and I am offended at such a comment. Again, I grew up without a private lesson in my life. I wish we could have afforded them, but we could not. This has never been our view, and will never be our view. We have many players that start, and play every inning of every game that have never stepped foot in our indoor facility. Then, Shanna says, "Practices were NEVER instructional." I ran about six practices myself. I know for a fact that Shanna's son did not even show up to over half of them. Moreover, we never received a phone call as to why he did not show up. As for the quality of the practices, we have parents that will testify in court that they were the best practices their child had participated in. I do not expect Shanna to know, considering they did not show up. Shanna informs us later in this letter as to why her son was not there. I will cover this topic then. Shanna, then says our private lessons cost $75 a lesson. This is not true. Our half hour lessons are $40 and our hour lessons are $70.

Shanna then says, "most on the team were under the impression that Logan would be the coach..." I was the coach until my season began. The parents knew that I play pro baseball, and that I would be leaving in April to go play. That is exactly what I did. Moreover, I made more than 8 games. Shanna then says, " Many of the boys lost their respect for Logan and made the comment that he bailed out on them because they were not winning." This is completely false. We were actually in second place in BBI (Boys Baseball Inc.) when I had to leave in April. We were winning, and I did not bail out on them. Shanna, then says, "Logan obviously has no children to understand the concept of earning respecting, because he demanded it and gave NONE." I am assuming she means respect and not respecting. I do not have children of my own, but I have been involved with youth ministry for six years, and I have a degree in psychology where I studied youth and adolescence. Moreover, I have coached for over five years. I have coached everywhere from ten year olds, to college, and pro-athletes. I feel, as do many others, that I do know how to earn respect. Shanna and I had a great conversation on the phone after I had stopped coaching the team, where she thanked me for my help. She called because she was mad that her son wasn't playing enough and that she wanted to quit. I informed her that we liked her son, and did not want that to happen, but if she wanted to then that would be our loss. I also explained to her that teaching your son it is acceptable to quit would be a life lesson she did not want to teach her son. She explained to me why her son had missed most of the practices, and that it was her son's father's fault. I then explained that I felt bad for her situation, and that I would pray for them. I also informed her, that if her son was not at practice, then he would not play. It was not our job to get her son to practice. At the very first parent's meeting we had, I explained that every player is expected to be at every game and every practice. If not, then they would not play. I also explained that we post the practice schedule on the website and that we will try, but do not plan on calling them about our games and practices. We gave them our phone numbers and told them they could call us anytime if they had a question about games or practices. We also told them to plan on practicing in the beginning on specific days. I understand that Shanna has some problems with her son's father. I feel for her, however, that is not our problem. It is not right to let him play, and to make another player who is at everything sit the bench. Rules are rules.

Shanna then comments about our parent policy, "he said if we were to approach him or other coaches about playing time...then that would ONLY hurt our boys worse!!!" First, let me say this, we never said it would only hurt the boys worse. We did say that it would hurt the boys playing time worse. We believe that players need to learn to take responsibility for their own career. They are playing select baseball. We feel baseball is an incredible way for young boys to learn life lessons. In our society, many parent's do everything for their kids. One parent told me about a parent on one of our teams that did everything for their child. When the child made a bad grade, the mom blamed the teacher for the bad grade. We have so many parents that thank us for helping their child learn responsibility. We also have parents that will not let their child make their own decision. This is very unfortunate. We are very upfront about our policy. If a parent does not like it, then they do not have to sign the contract. Shanna, even admits that we explained this. Boys do need their parents for many parts of their lives. We are very happy that Shanna is invested in her son's life. There are parents that are not. We applaud Shanna for being so dedicated to her son, and for dealing with some of the issues she has to deal with. However, rules are rules. We have them there for a reason. If she could not hold up her end of the bargain, then she should have played for a different team. We did not punish her child. We believe in positive and negative reinforcement. If you do well, you get awarded. If you do not, then you get something good taken away (i.e. playing time). I am sorry that the father is not around. I explained that I would like to help her son if need be, but that those issues would be kept separate from the baseball field. Life lessons can be learned through the game of baseball. However, some issues need to be dealt with off of the field. She then comments on my ministry, "He claims all the boys are treated equal when on the field. That is not possible when you are a minister and he actual molding boys other than baseball." I appreciate her opinion here, but again, we are a baseball organization, not a church. I feel I can minister to kids through the game of baseball. However, families come to us for baseball, not church.

Shanna mentions the age of the boys and their inability to drive. I understand they cannot drive. However, we never received a phone call about their inability to show up to a practice. We were never told why her son showed up late to the few practices he did show up to. We are understanding people. A simple phone call and a reason as to why her son did not show up would have helped. We now find out it was his fathers fault.

Shanna's son was hurt during the middle of the season. I was aware of all of this. The other two coaches spoke with me regularly about the team. How were we supposed to play her son when he was hurt? We aren't going to risk a young man's health for a baseball game.

Shanna is free to seek her legal option, however, she will need to understand what defamation of character and slander are very serious to us. She says, "I have certainly used my "word of mouth" and have been spreading the news of this scam." Our attorney will be in touch with her, as we cannot have false accusations being made against us. The only way we have an organization is by doing things the right way for the right reasons. We stay in business by our reputation. If we do not have a good reputation, then we will go out of business. This year alone, we had many players drafted into pro baseball. We also got over 15 scholarships for young men. Our players have signed scholarships to Texas, Texas A&M, Arizona, Arkansas, Dallas Baptist University, etc. We are doing things the right way, and for every two or three parents that are not happy, we have hundreds that call me regularly with complete gratitude. Our results speak for themselves.

The nature of select baseball is simply this, the best play. The players are in competition with their teammates for playing time. The coaches play who they feel is the better player. That is why we have a contract that every parent signs that says no playing time is guaranteed and the money is non-refundable. We have to pay for everything before the season starts. In other words, it does not matter how many players we have per team, our expenses remain the same. Therefore, we cannot give someone their money back simply because they feel they did not get to play enough. The money is already spent. A contract is a contract, and when a player quits, that hurts us. We now cannot fill the void. All other players are already on a team. The Dallas Patriots do things the right way for the right reasons. Our history tells you that. We can give anyone a list of hundreds of college coaches, pro scouts, former players and parents, etcetera that will say the same. Then we can give you a list of a few unhappy parents and players that feel there son should have played more. In a business, there are happy customers and unhappy customers. I pray that every player has an amazing experience as a Dallas Patriot. I also understand that when you have 150 players in your organization, and only 90 players can start, then chances are 60 players aren't going to be happy. Those 60 want to play. In select baseball the best play.

I pray for Shanna. I hope her home life gets better. I hope the son's father will help out more. However, the Dallas Patriots, I, and our attorney cannot have people making statements about us that are harmful to our organization. They will be dealt with accordingly.
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