• Report: #1118945

Complaint Review: David Maus Toyota

  • Submitted: Tue, January 28, 2014
  • Updated: Tue, January 28, 2014

  • Reported By: NO Air Conditioning in Florida — Ocala Florida
David Maus Toyota
1160 Rinehart Rd Sanford, Florida USA

David Maus Toyota I was sold a car with "known to be defective" Air Conditioning Sanford Florida

*Author of original report: David Maus Toyota Has Come Through!

*Consumer Comment: NO Air Conditioning in Florida,

*Consumer Comment: "What Ever It Takes!"

*Author of original report: Let me clarify Crucible

*Consumer Comment: Pretty typical.

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Instead of writing a special report I'm pasting below a copy of the certified letter I sent to David Maus (Owner) and each of his department heads. It's been slightly edited to for a better reading experience.See below the letter for post letter update and the response I got.  Mr. David Maus: On June 26, 2013 my wife and I were looking at a 2006 4Runner with 108,000 well cared for miles on it. It was a very clean truck with a well-documented service record. Byron Watson was our salesman and offered to take us on a test drive. The truck drove and operated as well as it looked. Byron was most helpful and as a result we sat down to negotiate. Tim Cooke was brought in to help close us as Byron and I were about $1500.00 apart. Tim introduced to us a printout of items that he claimed had been repaired in your service department during the initial inspection, prior to this truck being offered for sale.

PLEASE NOTE: This was NOT a typical printout from the service department, but appeared to be a report printed from some type of internal program to track expenses billed to the sales department. Each line item had a dollar value next to it. On the list were Brakes, Air Conditioning, and another item or two that I do not recall. I do recall the total came to about $700.00 and that the Air Conditioning portion was about $200. (We were not offered a copy of this for our records) According to Tim, since the repairs done increased his cost he could not meet our price point. Convinced these items had been thoroughly inspected and in some cases repaired, we increased our offer and went ahead with the AS-IS purchase.

Approximately July 26, 2013, I took my family on a daylong trip and noticed warm air coming from the driver’s side vents while cool air was still blowing from the passenger side vents. I assumed it was some type of malfunctioning mixing valve or damper in the vent system allowing hot air into the vent system. I visited the dealership within a week to inquire with an advisor just what had been done to the A/C system prior to the sale so I could eliminate that from my diagnostics, and also take advantage of my first free oil change. Upon my arrival, I was met by an advisor (name escapes me)and I told him we had just purchased this truck and that the air conditioning was blowing warm on the driver’s side only.

Since this was an AS-IS purchase, I asked if he could give me an idea about what might be wrong with it so I could buy the needed parts or have it repaired. The advisor left and soon returned and indicated the only thing done to the air conditioning prior to sale was an A/C Service and to Remove & Replace the blower motor to clean out leaves. Wondering just what “A/C Service meant, I parked, went inside and had another advisor print out the service history (See attached copy). Once home I discovered an entry during the pre-sale inspection indicating that 1 pound of R134 had been added to the system. (Entire system only calls for 1.4lbs) Why didn’t the service advisor mention this? Anyone in that position should know an A/C system is sealed and should not require an almost complete refill unless there is a major leak.

Did the service advisor simply not want me to know about the previously added refrigerant? I returned to the dealership the following day after work and without the truck to meet with the service manager. I was seen by Vinny, and after explaining that this “refill” looks more like a quick fix to get it sold “as-is” he agreed to take a look at it and offer a diagnostic check at no charge to me. I made an appointment for the next morning and as agreed Vinny took the truck to have it looked at. About 2 1/2hrs later, I was advised by Vinny that a complete check of the air conditioning system was done and no leak was found. The system was found to be low on refrigerant so it was refilled and was again blowing cold as it should. There was no diagnosis given. I left puzzled how there could be no diagnosis.

Was I not at a Toyota dealership? Dose someone not want there to be a diagnosis? Approximately 40 days later the air on the driver’s side again turns warm and eventually the entire system turns warm. This time I decided to escalate my issue within your organization by phone to avoid unnecessary 40 mile trips. After pondering my approach for a few weeks, I attempted to set up an appointment with your assistant Mr. Buck. I left a voicemail for him but never received a return call. After a week I contacted Michelle in your Customer Relations department, who was very friendly, took all my information, and listened to this entire story. She advised me she would forward this information and that I should hear from someone in a few days.

After a few days, I again contacted Michelle and she was surprised to learn that no one had contacted me, but again reassured me I would hear from someone. Two weeks after initially contacting Michelle in Customer Relations and not getting a response from anyone else, I decide to make another trip to Sanford. On approximately December 16th I arrived unannounced to meet with Michael Gutcheon- Service Director and explained my story. He was very accommodating and got Fred Marion- General Manager involved. Fred was nice and met with me alone allowing me to explain the situation. Fred, like the others before him kept reminding me that we bought it “AS-IS”. I kept reminding Fred that I know what “AS-IS” means, however recharging an air conditioning system to blow cold without repairing the leak and then selling it “AS-IS” is something I’d expect from a small time dealer… not David Maus Toyota where phrases like “Whatever It Takes” and “Do The Right Thing” are often used.

Fred left and within a few minutes Vinny returned and offered to again look at and diagnose the truck. An appointment was set for the next morning. The next morning I arrived and Vinny again took the truck back and after about an hour showed me the truck had no leaks that could be detected visually even using ultraviolet dye, leaving only the sealed evaporator box as the source for the leak. The only remedy is to replace the evaporator. The estimate is $1,700.00 to fully repair the system, $1,200 of it labor. Vinny advised me that Fred was authorizing the dealership to cover 40% of the costs leaving us with 60% or roughly $1,000.00 to cover. I didn’t accept the offer then, and here is why: Mr. Maus, we’re NOT pursuing this repair because by contract you “owe it to us”, as we understand we purchased this truck “AS-IS” and signed away all legal rights to a warranty as well as our right to small claimes court thanks to your “Binding Arbitration Agreement”.

Neither are we pursuing this repair just because the estimate is almost 15% of the purchase price. We are pursuing this repair because we fully believe this leak was known to exist and NOT properly repaired BEFORE it was placed on the lot for sale. It should have been properly repaired, sent to auction, or truly sold “AS-IS” with non-working air conditioning. We hope you will honor your motto of “Whatever It Takes” and “Do The Right Thing” by repairing the air conditioning on our 4runner without additional cost to us. Sincerely, XXXXX Two days after the above letter I received a call from Fred Marion the General Manager. The call lasted about 30 minutes.

He informed me that David Maus had brought him the letter and told him to handle it. He seemed suprised I didn't accept his offer of 60/40 split and continued to remind me that it was an As-Is sale and any offer on their part was above and beyond the call. He fails to see where thier own paperwork proves they knew of the faulty part and failed to properly handle the situation PRIOR TO THE SALE. At this point I really want no further repairs from David Maus, only a check or voucher to have the repairs done at another Toyota Dealership. Since I signed their binding arbitration agreement I have no legal recourse however, I do still have the right to express myself and can stand on the sidewalk with my sign.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 01/28/2014 07:20 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/David-Maus-Toyota/Sanford-Florida-32771/David-Maus-Toyota-I-was-sold-a-car-with-known-to-be-defective-Air-Conditioning-Sanford-1118945. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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Updates & Rebuttals

#1 Author of original report

David Maus Toyota Has Come Through!

AUTHOR: NO Air Conditioning in Florida - ()

I'm pleased to announce that on Feb. 13th 2014 David Maus Toyota and I have come to an agreement we can both live with. All along I only wanted them to do was the right thing and make it right. Now on Feb. 18th 2014 it appears that has happend. 

They contacted me last week about getting this issue behind us. Everyone I've delt with at David Maus Toyota has been very friendly even during this issue, however they were especially nice the last few days while we worked through this. 

I can now wholeheartedly refer my friends and family to David Maus Toyota as they do stand behind their cars and trucks.

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#2 Consumer Comment

NO Air Conditioning in Florida,

AUTHOR: Karl - ()

You can type in 1065 at this site and click on Ripoff Report #1065 and read it in order to learn more about how the Arbitration System in America works.

Good luck to you, and make sure to spread your Ripoff Report all over the web at sites like Twitter, Tumblr, Instagram, and Facebook!

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#3 Consumer Comment

"What Ever It Takes!"

AUTHOR: Jim - ()

Now you know exactly what that means! 

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#4 Author of original report

Let me clarify Crucible

AUTHOR: NO Air Conditioning in Florida - ()

First off, thanks for taking the time to read my report... I'm guessing you read it in its entirety. Allow me to break down a few things to help illustrate how this is not something I just "dreamt up".

I never made the allegation David Maus Toyota had done anything illegal, unless their intent was to defraud me by selling a defective product and hope I return for the repairs. What they HAVE done with or without intent is sell me a vehicle which they not only claimed had been inspected and in working order but also repaired, specifically the air conditioning system. While this is not illegal it sure is poor business practice, and does nothing in the long run to benefit them.

I only mentioned the binding arbitration agreement because after some research, I've learned many dealers are using it and since the dealers are paying for it the arbitrators are finding in favor of the dealers over 90% of the time. Do some research for yourself, but please lets drop that as it's not the point of this report.

If you know anything about how an air conditioning system actually works, you would agree that if over 75% of your freon (refrigerant) is missing, you have a leak. AC systems use freon, but don't consume freon as a rule. All certified auto mechanics know this and if this car had been in for repair the technician would have verified there was a leak, where it was and what needed to be repaired. It would have been up to the owner to repair or not. 

I can only speculate in this case that the technician either failed to follow through proper diagnostics, or did, and was advised by his superiors to just fill it up and put it on the lot. Either way, this is wrong.

At the time they did the pre sale inspection- June 13th (according to their service documents, not my guess, dream, or fantasy) they added 1 pound of freon... The entire system only holds 1.4 pounds.

I purchased on June 26th and by July 26th the air started to blow hot due to low freon.

I returned and ironically it took 1 pound of freon to refill it. A little reverse engineering tells you it was obviously blowing HOT during the pre sale inspection and someone made the choice to fill it and sell it.

As for taking the vehicle to and independent shop for inspection: That is always good advice especially if you are buying from a private seller or a small time dealer in the low rent district. However, when buying a used Toyota from the Toyota dealer who had sold it CERTIFIED to the previous owner, had run it through their shop, and had this exact system we are discussing repaired, there is no overwhelming reason to go anywhere else and think they would be more qualified than this dealer. So I didn't.

It is for these FACTS that I come to the conclusion that David Maus Toyota sold me a vehicle with an AC system that was known to be defective prior to sale.

Thanks again

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#5 Consumer Comment

Pretty typical.

AUTHOR: Crucible - ()

  It never ceases to amaze me how many people complain on this site that "as-is" (which they agreed to at purchase) should not apply to them for some special reason or another.   

  You bought the vehicle "as-is", which means in the condition it was in on the day of purchase.  Not contingent on previous repair work or anything else you try to dream up.    You could have had all of the vehicles systems checked out before purchase by your own mechanic (which you should always do on an "as-is" purchase), but you chose not to.  

" Since I signed their binding arbitration agreement I have no legal recourse ... "

 Consider yourself lucky.   Courts have long established the meaning and validity of an "as-is" sale.   You would not find a court willing to indulge you while you tried to explain why it does not apply in your "special" case.  The judge would simply look at the contract and send you on your way.

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