• Report: #37604

Complaint Review: Diversified Solutions (Parent Company = Phoenix USA)

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  • Submitted: Mon, December 09, 2002
  • Updated: Thu, January 12, 2012

  • Reported By:Knoxville Tennessee
Diversified Solutions (Parent Company = Phoenix USA)
9040 Executive Park Drive Suite 315 Knoxville, Tennessee U.S.A.
  • Phone: 865-769-4063
  • Web:
  • Category: Employers

Diversified Solutions (AKA Phoenix USA) Ripoff Pyramid Scam with misleading income potential Knoxville Tennessee

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: I was also a "member" of PhoenixUSA / Environet

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: i too was scammed

*Consumer Comment: Bwana etal

*Consumer Comment: Bwana etal

*UPDATE Employee: Your way or the Highway Huh?

*Consumer Comment: Paragon USA/Bwana/and others

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Got scamed in Chattanooga

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Don't believe the rebuttal. I too was ripped off to the tune of $5500! This is real!

*Consumer Comment: Wow, you really got me there

*Consumer Comment: A Lawyer!!! Ha Ha ! Well, that explains it all.

*Consumer Comment: Do you want reality with that?

*Consumer Comment: Anyone that has anything good to say about the FDA after Viox, Bextra, Viagra, Celebrex, etc., doesn't have a clue

*Consumer Comment: Natural vs. Man-made

*Consumer Comment: Natural products are always better than man made synthetic products.

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: THEY NEED STOPPED I was also a victim in the Roanoke

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: THEY NEED STOPPED I was also a victim in the Roanoke

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: THEY NEED STOPPED I was also a victim in the Roanoke

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: THEY NEED STOPPED I was also a victim in the Roanoke

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Bwana Thurman is not a Scam artist.

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: I was Taken by them

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: I was Taken by them

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: I was Taken by them

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: I was Taken by them

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Kevin, How do you make your money

*UPDATE Employee: The Truth

*UPDATE Employee: The Truth

*UPDATE Employee: The Truth

*UPDATE Employee: The Truth

*UPDATE Employee: Paragon USA should not be mentioned

*UPDATE Employee: Paragon USA should not be mentioned

*UPDATE Employee: Paragon USA should not be mentioned

*UPDATE Employee: Paragon USA should not be mentioned

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Scamed in Richmond Va... forced to have sex

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Ex Employee Agrees with Jason/ Same Experience

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Ex Employee Agrees with Jason/ Same Experience

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Ex Employee Agrees with Jason/ Same Experience

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Ex Employee Agrees with Jason/ Same Experience

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: something should be done to shut this company down!!!

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: something should be done to shut this company down!!!

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: something should be done to shut this company down!!!

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: PHOENIX USA IS GOING TO PAY FOR EVERYONE THEY HAVE RIPPED OFF

*UPDATE Employee: FALSE STATEMENTS!!!

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Diversified Solutions, located in Knoxville Tennessee is a subsitiary of the Phoenix USA company . They start out by placing misleading adds to get a large response from the community. In their add, they state that they are swamped and need motivated individuals to train. Then they tell you that if you aren't making $750/wk [~$40,000/yr] to call. Being near a college campus and being that the average person in the area makes around $8 an hour it seems like a great opportunity.

They tell you on the phone that there will be a brief company overview and "if they like you" you will be invited back. Well, everyone is invited back, but a lot don't come back because they see that it is a scam. Anyways, in this "overview" they show you how much petrolium is in the water and how many children die from drinking household cleaners. Finally they go over their pay structure and how you make commissions off of the people below you in rank. They then tell you to only listen to people who have made the money you want to make - and the majority of the people a this briefing do not have people close to them making that kind of money - so obviously they should listen to the speaker. The keep emphasising not to let this opportunity pass you by because someone told you that it was too good to be true.

What I later realized after another day of researching this company is that some of the people sitting in the seminar room are actually employees strategically placed there to make you feel confortable and to create crowd participation. Also, they tell everyone that this is a sales job, but if you are not good at sales, others there will pick up the slack - because some people are there for sales. But, everyone who responds to the adds are responding to be a manager, not a sales person.

After a couple of days, they tell you "If I were you I would by inventory regardless of whether I were going to be a sales person or not, because you don't want to miss the next John Doe who comes along and sells a bunch." To start making money off of others, you must have sold $5,000 worth of inventory - so that is what they "recommend" you buy. More like urge.

Then they get you to start recruiting people and sitting in on the briefings as "potential employees" as I mentioned above. If you chose not to buy inventory, they stress that you at least try a product and tell others about them.

This is a SCAM. After researching this company further, I found out that the three owners are former top executives of the company EQUINOX. This company was forced to close for running a pyramid scam by the FTC. It is almost exactly like Phoenix USA?!?! Even people's descriptions of their experiences are the same. I recommend the site if you want more information about Equinox. I also recommend the site which compares Phoenix USA to the Equinox company. What it comes down to is they lied to get you in (false ad), they lied about the water test (there is no petrolium in the water - it is things like acidity & alkalinity that turned the water orange and they are perfectly safe to drink), they tried to scare people with the household cleaners speal, they talked of fortunes galore, they said not to listen to those close to you unless they have the results you want (few do), and finally they were founded by SCAM artists from a company almost exactly like this one that was closed by the FTC. There are those few individuals who do make a fortune off of Phoenix USA - unfortunately they are the founders.

Sneed
Knoxville, Tennessee
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 12/09/2002 09:32 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Diversified-Solutions-Parent-Company-Phoenix-USA/Knoxville-Tennessee-37923/Diversified-Solutions-AKA-Phoenix-USA-Ripoff-Pyramid-Scam-with-misleading-income-potenti-37604. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

Ripoff Report has an exclusive license to this report. It may not be copied without the written permission of Ripoff Report.

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#1 UPDATE EX-employee responds

I was also a "member" of PhoenixUSA / Environet

AUTHOR: Bill - (USA)

I'm glad I got out of this Company....I purchased $3,500 worth of products and NOTHING to show for it.  Can you believe I still have their (above counter) Water Filter?  I peeled off the Green (Phonix) Decal and it's still in my garage.   Say...this company owes me for $3,500 for products I could never sell because of their pyramid prices.  They were run out of Virginia Beach, VA Office by the Consumer Affairs Office.   Where oh where is Paul Radlebauer hiding?  Somewhere in Charlestown, SC where he's from?   Maybe his (ex) Wife "Shannon" would know where he is. 

H**l, for all I know....Paul is still operating his Lawncare business.
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#2 UPDATE EX-employee responds

i too was scammed

AUTHOR: clayton - (United States of America)

I used to work out of the knoxville office. At the time i was recruited i worked for Saladmaster inc. I sold cookware in the home distribution market. I have been in sales of one nature or another for most of my life. I responded to an add in the paper looking for motivated individuals for large income possibilities. I won't lie it caught my eye. Lie most people i always want to make as much money as possible.

After having set through the first presentation,and being so fortunate that one of the founders just happen to grace with his presence that night, knew it was a scam. As bad as i hate to admit it it still did'nt stop me. I sat down with good ole Wally that night after most had already been sent home with an appointment to come back on Friday.

I told Wally and Kevin, who was supposed to be the top sales teams leader in the Knoxville office, that i knew that this was a scam. Of course they tried to convince me that it was'nt, but we both knew it was and I was'nt gonna change my mind. I told them i did'nt care just show me how i could make money do it.

I have always been able to sell ice to an eskimo. after a few more meetings i too was a part of the scam. i became one of those who would do the first part of the presentation and introduce one of my " dear and good personal friends " that i would only have known for a few days or weeks. They would feed me the info of what points i needed to get across. And i also have sat down across those desks and talked people into going to the bank and getting loans so that they could start doing this buisness.

 I now wish that i would'nt have done it because i know that i pushed way too many people who could not afford to do so. And there are probably many who have had alot of financial problems because of it. Now i did make a very good income. They paid me because i knew the real deal. In fact i have went and spent quite a few weekends with Wally at his home on Lake Norris. I Also know that a few of the leaders started with rug money as i was privy to that info. Even continued to do so afterwards to keep up their standard of living
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#3 Consumer Comment

Bwana etal

AUTHOR: John - (U.S.A.)

Here you go Matt. You wanted to see what was going n in Indiana?

Call 6 Infiltrates Controversial Company
Former Employees: Company's Claim False

POSTED: 3:08 p.m. EST September 6, 2002

INDIANAPOLIS -- The following is a transcript of Rafael Sanchez's report, shown exactly the way it appeared on RTV6 at 5 p.m. Sept. 6, 2002.

Martha Weaver: The company is looking for eager, dedicated people with a good attitude, and is offering a position with high earnings potential.

Video

Part I: Former Employees React
Part II: Call 6 Infiltrates Company
Ray Cortopossi: That's the pitch put in a variety of ways in help wanted ads. But former employees, now part of an attorney general investigation, say they wanted to make money. Instead, they say they invested hundreds of dollars and never saw a paycheck.

Call 6 reporter Rafael Sanchez joins us with part two of his investigation.


Rafael Sanchez: People are responding to help wanted ads for the company known as Twin Dynasty.

It's currently located on Commerce Park Place, Suite L, near 86th and Michigan.

We stopped by yesterday (Thursday) and they again rejected our attempts to get their side of the story.

We did learn something -- despite these stickers on their doors, the Better Business Bureau and the Indianapolis Chamber of Commerce say Twin Dynasty is not a member of their organization. Former employees say, 'Stay away from Suite L unless you want to lose money.'


Eli (Twin Dynasty Employee): What you see right here in this room is going to be the revolution. It's going to be the wave of the future.


Sanchez: This is one of the many presentations made on behalf of the company known as Twin Dynasty. RTV6 obtained several hours of their training video.


Eli: Anybody can come in here and make $4,600. That's easy. I can sign anybody. I can hire my dog (inaudible) ... and make my dog $4,600 this month.

Sanchez: And if you walkout during their presentation, you are made to feel unworthy of their self-proclaimed opportunity.

Eli: Ma'am, if (you) want to go, you can leave. Nobody is asking you to stay. We're not. It's not like we are looking for everyone. If any of you guys at any time -- if you feel like you want to go, go. You're looking at a company -- right now we're doing .... $1 million in business a month. We're genuine here. Everything we do with our company is 100 percent genuine.



Sanchez: These folks will tell you otherwise.


Angela Oakley/Former Employee: Prior to the briefings and the trainings they say,"Feed energy, feed energy." You are suppose to raise your hand. Answer "me" to questions that they say. "Yes me, I did that." Those sorts of things.


Sanchez: This is an example of what she means.

Eli: How many of you can't wait to be successful because you know somebody and want to rub it their face.?


Sanchez: About one dozen people have filed complaints with the attorney general's office after they say they were led to believe they were responding to an ad for a good paying jobs.

William Adams: The people at the bottom are not getting jack. That's the difference in the real world business that's legit and legal, and this bull.

Sanchez: Former employees say they used these pre-made ads that used key words like "high-income potential" to get people to they think they were applying for a job.


Adams: Actually, you put ads like, "Office manager needed," so you think it's a legit position that's open.


Sanchez: It's what drew a handful of people to the company last week. That's where we caught up with the founder of the company -- who traveled to Indianapolis in this Mercedes -- who was making a case why people should sell his water filters.



Bwana Thurman/company founder: Who in here knows that water in Indianapolis is bad?


Sanchez: When we heard enough from our hidden camera, we walked in.

"Hi. I'm Rafael Sanchez. Can you explain these attorney general complaints?

Thurman: No.


Sanchez: When we asked him to clarify the complaints to the state, he decided to walk out. So we decided to ask the job applicants if they knew about the complaints.

Employee: Could you come back?

Sanchez: Not Really.

Employee: I'm in the middle of an interview.


Sanchez: Have you told these people that a lot of people make no money? Have you told them that?

Have you told these people that they have to pay $500 for a desk, $100 for a phone?

Unidentified woman: Oh my God. I am totally upset.


Sanchez: Can you answer the complaints sir?


Thurman: Can you leave please?

Sanchez: Can you answer the complaint?


Thurman: Can you leave please?


Woman: It makes me feel used, kind of. I was all expecting to come down here and have prospects on a job. I could have been at home.

Sanchez: I caught you in the middle of an interview. What were you being interviewed for and what were you being told.



Jana Jones/job applicant: I wasn't being interviewed. I was being told I could make $5,000 a month. It's not at all what they make it out to be. I can't believe this.


Previous Stories:
September 5, 2002: Company Promises Big Bucks, Does It Deliver?


Copyright 2002 by TheIndyChannel.com All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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#4 Consumer Comment

Bwana etal

AUTHOR: John - (U.S.A.)

Matt,

I see you didn't take the time to address important points. Who there is successful? Bwana has made statements that his assets are in his mother's name. As an astute businessperson, I am sure you understand Matt that equity in assets is used to acquire more assets. Why put it in another person's name where you can't even write off the interest? It's not what you make, Matt it's what you keep.

So far as driving a 10-year-old BMW? That's part of the hook you use in your ads. Want to drive a BMW?' A vehicle that books out at $6,500.00 is not an incentive but I guess if you don't tell everyone that, it might seem enticing. Frankly though I think he drives a 10 year old beemer because it is what he can afford, kind of like a fake Rolex.

Matt I don't sell get rich quick schemes that make money off the sweat of others. I worked and still work hard. I am successful because I put in 10-12 hours a day. I am happy and proud my woman and kid have a great life and they can be proud that my name isn't on a public list somewhere, which goes along with taking responsibility for your life. You haven't addressed why Bwana hasn't paid insignificant bills that were reduced to judgments. My thoughts are that your are trying to teach how to be a successful businessperson. Destroying your credit rating isn't too bright and counter productive Matt. That might also be why Bwana drives a 10-year-old car.

Bwana has been silent through all this at least publicly. It's all getting back to me and I just forward the information on. His silence is by far a better policy that making a public spectacle of yourself. He was given a chance to give my friend John his money back. He didn't so now we'll just have to make an example out this beacon of respectability.

At the end of the day the masses are not shouting out the praises of your products. You don't defend them nor do you sell them. The time has been spent selling the MLM, which is what is the problem. You're a dolt backing a loser.
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#5 UPDATE Employee

Your way or the Highway Huh?

AUTHOR: Matt - (U.S.A.)

I beleive that your comments are virtually worthless. I am not going to have a measuring contest with you about how successful I am compared to you. You can take that any way you want. I am happy for you that you are one of the top 2% earners in the nation. Congrats. Let me ask you, did you make more money before or after you began your own business. I would honestly beleive that you did otherwise you would have gone back to doing something else and wouldn't still have your business. In fact did it take some capital investment to start your business? If your business was a failure would you take responsability for your failure. I realize that it is easy for you to sit up on your high horse and claim how it took you twenty years to be successful so everyone should not expect to get quick results, but others have so why take away someones dreams of wuick success. Maybe they will work harder than you did and acheive it faster. As technology improves and time change making money has become more and more simple. I would like to see those so called reports from Indiana about Paragon. You say the theme between Paragon and Equinox is exactly the same. Heres your sign! Both in concept are the same. However the mgmt of the two companies are dratiscally different and this comes from people who were involved with both. It is my understanding you are on the outside gazing from your ivory tower and dont really know anything.
You look at Bwana Thurman and say that he drives a ten year old car. You realize in life that its is not the money you make but what you do with it that determines your financial success. I dont know for a fact why he drives that car, other than the fact that it is still in phenominal shape and there is no reason to replace it, but you of all people should understand that a car is a liability. Why would you go and purchase liabilities as a business owner. Instead he took his money and developed an asset known as a business. You say that he has only one home in his name. If you would go and talk to your investigators and attorneys they would tell you that buy having his company own assets and possesions you then qualify for some incredible tax advantages.
To be honest it is really not my place to defend a gentleman like Mr. Thurman because I know that e is more than capable of defending himself. What I do know is that it is because of lazy people that give our industry a black eye. Because we teach people about how to acheive the american dream ( meaning having freedom to make money for your self as opposed to working for someone else) and some either cant or won't do it themselves, they try to blame anyone but themselves. Like anything out there it takes education to be successful. If you choose to pursue your financial goals in another career, more power to you and good luck. But please stop wasting your time trying to knock someone elses profession. If you really do your own research you will find that regardless of individuals who knock Direct Marketing that the industry has continued to grow and more and more people have been sighning up and getting amazing results. I am not niave enough to beleive that some unethical people do take advantage of people. It HAPPENS in EVERY BUSINESS. You must choose what is right for you.

Anyone can learn to run there own business but it does take sacrifice and those who expect it to go smoothly are either lucky when it does or delusional. What you must do is focus on your goal and do what it takes to achieve it. You realize that NASA makes a decision and a plan to put a man on the moon. However dont you think that there are constant adjustments that occur on the way to that point. Business is no different and for those who are ready to get things going then good luck to you. Just make a decision and when you do, make a commintment to go and get whatever it is that you want. Happy New year and Good Luck to you ALL.
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#6 Consumer Comment

Paragon USA/Bwana/and others

AUTHOR: John - (U.S.A.)

I am fortunate enough to have a business that employs attorneys and private investigators across the US. One of my friends went to work for Paragon and called to ask my thoughts. I knew within 1 minute there were problems. Clearly casual searching the internet will show many of them.

The Secretary of States Office in Florida lists Paragon USA, Inc. as an active corporation. Bwana Thurman is the registered agent and the president. Marie is the Secretary. The office listed is 5783 Mining Terrace Ste 6 Jacksonville, FL 32257.

Bwana A. Thurman drives a 10 year old 740 BMW with vanity SC plate ODOUBT. Bwana has at least three judgments in Richmond, VA for money owed to the Richmond Times, ads for folks like you.

You will find he is the officer listed for Phoenix USA and another in FL.

His properties seem to consist of one in Alabama, hardly what I call motivational.

Currently at least Indiana and Florida Attorneys General have a file open on Paregon and/or others of Bwana's business'. You will find a news report from Indiana on Twin Dynasties.

The Federal Trade Commission or course shut down Equinox. There is also recent actions against companies founded by former employees of Equinox. The theme of course is exactally the same as Paragon, a Multi Level Marketing system that the authorities have trouble with. Amway was able to avert closure because they actually do sell product but were censored by the FTC for making income promises that were not true. Amway was fined $25,000.000.00 for similar violations.

I have spoken to the Office of Consumer affairs in South Carolina. There is a file on Paragon USA. I have also spoken to the South Carolina Attorney Generals Office and they are also aware.

Folks...if it is too good to be true it probably is. I have worked at my career for 20 years to get to the level I am. Don't think you will in 1 year. These ads are designed to lure in lower income people that want the American dream.

By the way. The "Founder" of Equinox was fined $40,000,000.00 and banned from Multi Level Marketing.

Now the fun part. I have a private investigator standing by in SC to go to work at Paragon. They won't know who but he/she will be gathering evedence. You never know, they might be working there now.

And you clown friends of Bwana's put up your pay stubs before you respond. I am one of the upper 2% earners in the US and don't have any issue showing you what I have, most of it's public info anyway. If you have a success story, show me, don't tell me. And if you haven't figured it out I am making a list and checking it twice on who's part of the business. Get on the list.

If you have an issue go to the Attorny Generals website in your state. You are able to file a complaint on their website. The State and Feds need to know and if there is enough of you, they wil act. Additional information can be obtained from the Federal Trade Commissions web site. When you get there type in "Equinox", the articles will come up. You are also able to file a complaint on line with them.
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#7 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Got scamed in Chattanooga

AUTHOR: Joshua - (U.S.A.)

It's been awhile since all this has happened to me, but recent events have made me search these guys out. I really loved the ideas and products that these people shared with me and I worked hard getting people into the office for 'interviews'. However the guy who got me into would work out the paperwork to where I never got any money. I became a Director with the company in about 2 weeks. After that I just went straight into debt. All in all I ending spending a lot of money(I won't disclose how much).

I've checked out this new company Paragon USA and it's all the same to me. I meet with the founders and they all seemed like nice people. Well that's how they are trained. That's how they trained us. It's a lot of brain washing and lies. I had a lot of this stole from me in the office as well as 'my peoples' stuff. I'm hoping that this entire thing will help someone make the decision to stay away from anything that these 3 have or ever will do.

BTW I hope all those involved that I met never see me, because if any of you do then I'll beat your a**!!!!
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#8 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Don't believe the rebuttal. I too was ripped off to the tune of $5500! This is real!

AUTHOR: Patti - (U.S.A.)

I too was an employee of the Diversified Solutions scam company in Knoxville, TN. I too invested the $5500 and received nothing in return. Wally Ponder even signed the back of my check made out to Phoenix USA. Bwana Thurman even did the training.

If anyone has any information as to the whereabouts of any of the company people, Wally Ponder, Bob Moe, Bwana Thurman(Paragon USA), Carma Mutter(who accepted my check personally), please let me know.
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#9 Consumer Comment

Wow, you really got me there

AUTHOR: Timothy - (U.S.A.)

What's the matter "Manly," (is this Dear Abby or something? What's with the fake name?) can't refute my reasoning so you resort to irrelevant character speculation like a little schoolboy?

Every time you put your fingers on that keyboard you demean yourself and your position a little more. First, you raised the contention that natural medicine is always better than manmade medicine. I presented a valid argument to the opposite effect. True to MLM form, you gave a couple of isolated examples that actually work against you when given in their true context, told me I was just too stupid to recognize the awesome makrketability of snake oils, and then advised me not to respond until I was a "documented multi-millionaire." I still get a chuckle out of that one.

I then clarified that I was not challenging the marketing plan or the viability of the "opportunity" but rather the effectiveness and safety of natural vs. man-made medicines. I gave some additional arguments.

Again, instead of refuting my arguments, you chose to give some wacky, irrelevant comments about "leaving the building of life long relationships" to the geniuses that operate pyramid schemes.

Just as the "alternative health" industry's failure to subject their products to the scientific method is prima facie evidence of their ineffectiveness, your failure to refute my charges and your resort to childish character speculations is prima facie evidence that you are just a naive dolt.
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#10 Consumer Comment

A Lawyer!!! Ha Ha ! Well, that explains it all.

AUTHOR: Manly - (U.S.A.)

Your personality type is best suited for building judicial cases and chasing ambulances. Leave the building of long lasting personal relationships to the awesome networkers like Mr. Bwanna Thurman.
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#11 Consumer Comment

Do you want reality with that?

AUTHOR: Timothy - (U.S.A.)

A few months ago I was in a gas station and saw the headline "Bigfoot Steals Race Car" on a Weekly World News. That was the funniest thing I had ever read until I came across "Please do not respond until you are a documented multi-millionaire."

You meant that to be funny, right?

You may say I'm uneducated (which, by the way, is a GREAT way to effectively present your point) but my law school transcript says otherwise.

I'm plenty educated, couldn't be more so. I'm educated enough, in fact, to recognize that the scientific method has been the mode whereby we discern the effectiveness and safety of health treatments for centuries. And my critical thinking skills are sharp enough to recognize that a company that refuses to subject its health products to the scientific method has no faith in its own products.

The lack of valid, research based evidence supporting the viability of natural medicines is prima facie evidence that such medicines are not viable. There is simply no other explanation for the unwillingness of these companies to subject their wares to the same standards applied to conventional meduicines.

You attack the FDA. Sure, the FDA has its problems. And sure, some medicines that make it past the review process prove to be less safe than originally thought.

But answer me this: how many people were prescribed Vioxx? Out of those, how many suffered adverse reactions? I don't know the answer to that, but the answer IS out there. If I cared to find it, I could.

And what happened when it was found out that Vioxx may not be safe? It was quickly taken off the shelves. Further research was performed, it was concluded that the medicine WAS safe, and it was put back on the shelves with new warnings.

And how many people were actually HELPED by Vioxx? What is the success rate of Vioxx? Again, I don't know those answers off hand, but they are out there, and you or I could find them if we wanted to.

Now, how many people have used "shark cartilage," or "coral calcium" and had adverse reactions? Neither of us knows the answer to that question. Nor does anybody else.

How many people used these products and were actually helped? Again, nobody knows. What is the laboratory success rate? Again, nobody knows.

And why does nobody know? I can only assume that it's because the numbers are bad. If you had any critical thinking skills, you would come to the same conclusion.

Whether marketing these sham products is a fruitful endeavor is an issue I didn't raise. A product can be viable for marketing and still be worthless. Your own faith in these prducts is a perfect example of that. But, seeing as how I didn't raise that issue, 75% of your rebuttal was against an argument that was never made.

Now, I can't document that I am a multi-millionaire, nor would I attempt to, because I don't depend for my success on deceiving people as to my income. If you want, however, I can provide you with my undergrad and graduate transcripts. But if you think that only multi-millionaires have valid opinions, then you're not worth ANYBODY'S time.

There you go. Do you want fries with that?
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#12 Consumer Comment

Anyone that has anything good to say about the FDA after Viox, Bextra, Viagra, Celebrex, etc., doesn't have a clue

AUTHOR: Manly - (U.S.A.)

Give me a break!!! Anyone that has anything good to say about the FDA after Viox, Bextra, Viagra, Celebrex, etc., doesn't even deserve our time and energy. You are obviously very uneducated and too immature to understand or accept getting in front of a trend. I guess someone has to ask, "You want fries with that, sir?" It might as well be you.

PS. Please do not respond until you are a documented multi-millionaire.
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#13 Consumer Comment

Natural vs. Man-made

AUTHOR: Timothy - (U.S.A.)

"Natural products are always better than man made synthetic products. Any company willing to produce and market these types of products should be commended."

Not true at all. The man-made synthetic products are usually formulated from the active ingredient in the natural product, combined with other compounds to make the active ingredient work better in a human body.

The unwillingness of these natural medicine hawkers to subject their wares to scientific testing is prima facie evidence that they ARE NOT better than FDA approved synthetic compounds.

Beyond that, I don't think that a merchandiser who 1) manufactures a health problem, 2) convinces people that modern medicine is against them, and 3) sells their product at exhorbitant prices deserves to be commended. Of course, the same would hold true for any traditional pharmaceutical company as well. They're not much better, but at least their trying to make medicine with proven effectiveness and safety.
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#14 Consumer Comment

Natural products are always better than man made synthetic products.

AUTHOR: Manly - (U.S.A.)

What's really going on?!

I'm a 20 year retired Navy Vet and I've been around the block, so to say. What I have come to realize is that there are plenty of problems in America with health, obesity and environmental issues. I am very aware of the significance of having healthy and environmentally safe products.

Natural products are always better than man made synthetic products. Any company willing to produce and market these types of products should be commended.

What it comes down to is how these products are marketed. These products are part of a "trend" so it is natural for any company worth a grain of salt to market and ship the demand for it to the consumer.

There are many different ways to do this and the most popular and most profitable way is and has always been through network marketing distribution. This is the only way an average human being can share these products with a friend or family member and earn extraordinary income at the same time.

Sometimes you have to be deceived for your own good. All Paragon USA is saying is to learn how to work smart not hard.

I have yet to see a report saying that the products are not working or that they had down line that accumulated 20K in GSV and their check didn't reflect their pay level. I guess that is the way the Internet is now, anyone can post anything without having all the true facts. So far I haven't read anything that will give me pause about Paragon USA. I deal with facts and not propaganda. Show me the facts with documents and photos.
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#15 UPDATE EX-employee responds

THEY NEED STOPPED I was also a victim in the Roanoke

AUTHOR: Janice - (U.S.A.)

I was also a victim in the Roanoke, VA area with Phoenix USA. They came to town with the same ads and all the "talk" about helping people run a business that helps to get you making more money than you can ever imagine. I was with these crazy crooks for over a year and struggle-- STILL to this day to recover from my credit card debt. I feel sorry for those that were a part of my "team" that lost so much money in this situation as well.

I hung in there thinking that I was going to get that "big break" and become a 'director" and help other s make money as well and then it ride up to me on the chain! Well -- we all know know that that never happened. I also was promised to be the first to help open an office in Greensboro, NC with good ol' Wally and make even bigger bucks.

Well-- I moved my whole life down there and met with many office buildings and complexes and EVERY time-- it was "unfortunate" that Wally never showed up for ANY of the meetings and after I finally moved eveything down to NC, I NEVER heard from WALLY again! I did hear from his "wonderful" co-workers though and they filled my heard full of B.S. ----

I ended up having to move back to Virginia after 2 months of no response and only a part-time job to try to keep me afloat!
I do know that MANY people have slept their way to the top and to make money in that company and the reason everyone talks about Bwana and Janna--

its because they were sleeping together the entire time we were open for business in Roanoke and then some. I traveled to all the major cities for the BIG meetings and paid the $200 EVERY single time! I believed I would do well with them and now realized that it was a crazy lie and big mistake.

I sometimes see the people that I worked with in the Roanoke area and we laugh and can't believe we got sucked in. Many people are sucked into this company and now the 3 founders have broken off and moved on to different names and companies--- SO please be aware of all these people that you have read about.
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#16 UPDATE EX-employee responds

THEY NEED STOPPED I was also a victim in the Roanoke

AUTHOR: Janice - (U.S.A.)

I was also a victim in the Roanoke, VA area with Phoenix USA. They came to town with the same ads and all the "talk" about helping people run a business that helps to get you making more money than you can ever imagine. I was with these crazy crooks for over a year and struggle-- STILL to this day to recover from my credit card debt. I feel sorry for those that were a part of my "team" that lost so much money in this situation as well.

I hung in there thinking that I was going to get that "big break" and become a 'director" and help other s make money as well and then it ride up to me on the chain! Well -- we all know know that that never happened. I also was promised to be the first to help open an office in Greensboro, NC with good ol' Wally and make even bigger bucks.

Well-- I moved my whole life down there and met with many office buildings and complexes and EVERY time-- it was "unfortunate" that Wally never showed up for ANY of the meetings and after I finally moved eveything down to NC, I NEVER heard from WALLY again! I did hear from his "wonderful" co-workers though and they filled my heard full of B.S. ----

I ended up having to move back to Virginia after 2 months of no response and only a part-time job to try to keep me afloat!
I do know that MANY people have slept their way to the top and to make money in that company and the reason everyone talks about Bwana and Janna--

its because they were sleeping together the entire time we were open for business in Roanoke and then some. I traveled to all the major cities for the BIG meetings and paid the $200 EVERY single time! I believed I would do well with them and now realized that it was a crazy lie and big mistake.

I sometimes see the people that I worked with in the Roanoke area and we laugh and can't believe we got sucked in. Many people are sucked into this company and now the 3 founders have broken off and moved on to different names and companies--- SO please be aware of all these people that you have read about.
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#17 UPDATE EX-employee responds

THEY NEED STOPPED I was also a victim in the Roanoke

AUTHOR: Janice - (U.S.A.)

I was also a victim in the Roanoke, VA area with Phoenix USA. They came to town with the same ads and all the "talk" about helping people run a business that helps to get you making more money than you can ever imagine. I was with these crazy crooks for over a year and struggle-- STILL to this day to recover from my credit card debt. I feel sorry for those that were a part of my "team" that lost so much money in this situation as well.

I hung in there thinking that I was going to get that "big break" and become a 'director" and help other s make money as well and then it ride up to me on the chain! Well -- we all know know that that never happened. I also was promised to be the first to help open an office in Greensboro, NC with good ol' Wally and make even bigger bucks.

Well-- I moved my whole life down there and met with many office buildings and complexes and EVERY time-- it was "unfortunate" that Wally never showed up for ANY of the meetings and after I finally moved eveything down to NC, I NEVER heard from WALLY again! I did hear from his "wonderful" co-workers though and they filled my heard full of B.S. ----

I ended up having to move back to Virginia after 2 months of no response and only a part-time job to try to keep me afloat!
I do know that MANY people have slept their way to the top and to make money in that company and the reason everyone talks about Bwana and Janna--

its because they were sleeping together the entire time we were open for business in Roanoke and then some. I traveled to all the major cities for the BIG meetings and paid the $200 EVERY single time! I believed I would do well with them and now realized that it was a crazy lie and big mistake.

I sometimes see the people that I worked with in the Roanoke area and we laugh and can't believe we got sucked in. Many people are sucked into this company and now the 3 founders have broken off and moved on to different names and companies--- SO please be aware of all these people that you have read about.
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#18 UPDATE EX-employee responds

THEY NEED STOPPED I was also a victim in the Roanoke

AUTHOR: Janice - (U.S.A.)

I was also a victim in the Roanoke, VA area with Phoenix USA. They came to town with the same ads and all the "talk" about helping people run a business that helps to get you making more money than you can ever imagine. I was with these crazy crooks for over a year and struggle-- STILL to this day to recover from my credit card debt. I feel sorry for those that were a part of my "team" that lost so much money in this situation as well.

I hung in there thinking that I was going to get that "big break" and become a 'director" and help other s make money as well and then it ride up to me on the chain! Well -- we all know know that that never happened. I also was promised to be the first to help open an office in Greensboro, NC with good ol' Wally and make even bigger bucks.

Well-- I moved my whole life down there and met with many office buildings and complexes and EVERY time-- it was "unfortunate" that Wally never showed up for ANY of the meetings and after I finally moved eveything down to NC, I NEVER heard from WALLY again! I did hear from his "wonderful" co-workers though and they filled my heard full of B.S. ----

I ended up having to move back to Virginia after 2 months of no response and only a part-time job to try to keep me afloat!
I do know that MANY people have slept their way to the top and to make money in that company and the reason everyone talks about Bwana and Janna--

its because they were sleeping together the entire time we were open for business in Roanoke and then some. I traveled to all the major cities for the BIG meetings and paid the $200 EVERY single time! I believed I would do well with them and now realized that it was a crazy lie and big mistake.

I sometimes see the people that I worked with in the Roanoke area and we laugh and can't believe we got sucked in. Many people are sucked into this company and now the 3 founders have broken off and moved on to different names and companies--- SO please be aware of all these people that you have read about.
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#19 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Bwana Thurman is not a Scam artist.

AUTHOR: John - (U.S.A.)

I am personal friends of Bwana Thurman. His name does not need to be dragged down with any BS. I personally worked with Bwana in a brand new office in Augusta Georgia, and another brand new office out of Greensboro, NC. Yes we both worked for Equinox International, however it wasnt anything the locals did wrong. A lot of people got very greedy in the business and began slamming individuals into investing money they didnt have so they could qualify for the next level. Bwana NEVER would condone such a thing, he personally kicked reps out of the office and had their names broadcasted across the company for doing what they did. He even did everything in his power to assist the individuals in getting back any lost revenues. Would a Scam artist do that? I havent seen Bwana in about 4 yrs, but I know his business ethic has not changed. He is an awesome business man and very successful. Learn from him, and you to will be sucessful. Congrats Bwana on the new company! I knew you would start your own.
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#20 UPDATE EX-employee responds

I was Taken by them

AUTHOR: Amanda - (U.S.A.)

I was taken by this company too! I only invested 200 on one of those cant miss seminars. When they started asking me to buy products I told them to kiss my ass. Janna Decamps was the big person in our group she was suppose to have millions all made by this company. This company does need to be shut down. They take people when they are at there lowest (unemployed) and take advantage of them.
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#21 UPDATE EX-employee responds

I was Taken by them

AUTHOR: Amanda - (U.S.A.)

I was taken by this company too! I only invested 200 on one of those cant miss seminars. When they started asking me to buy products I told them to kiss my ass. Janna Decamps was the big person in our group she was suppose to have millions all made by this company. This company does need to be shut down. They take people when they are at there lowest (unemployed) and take advantage of them.
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#22 UPDATE EX-employee responds

I was Taken by them

AUTHOR: Amanda - (U.S.A.)

I was taken by this company too! I only invested 200 on one of those cant miss seminars. When they started asking me to buy products I told them to kiss my ass. Janna Decamps was the big person in our group she was suppose to have millions all made by this company. This company does need to be shut down. They take people when they are at there lowest (unemployed) and take advantage of them.
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#23 UPDATE EX-employee responds

I was Taken by them

AUTHOR: Amanda - (U.S.A.)

I was taken by this company too! I only invested 200 on one of those cant miss seminars. When they started asking me to buy products I told them to kiss my ass. Janna Decamps was the big person in our group she was suppose to have millions all made by this company. This company does need to be shut down. They take people when they are at there lowest (unemployed) and take advantage of them.
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#24 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Kevin, How do you make your money

AUTHOR: Jason - (U.S.A.)

Kevin, and others who have posted in Defense of Paragon USA, let me ask you this. Do you know who Bob Moe is? If Im not mistaken, he is down there in Jacksonville with you, or was at some point. Mr. Moe guarenteed me money back when Phoenix USA took my money, didnt ship for 2 months, and then never gave me a refund when I shipped 5500 dollars worth of product back to them. I have all the documentation from the transactions to the shipment receipts and insurance papers. Mr Moe decided to lead me on and tell me that the company would settle with me for less the 10 or 15 percent. I agreed as I have been in financial ruin since putting the product on my credit card and just wanted to pay on it to get the monthy payments back. I signed a contract for the agreement, but never got the money.
I dont really know what you are trying to prove by saying that these people go to church. I have been a christian my whole life. There is more corruption in the church today than there is any where else, hell we had 2 lifelong mafia bosses who went to our small country church???? Maybe they do go to church, but that doesnt justify what Mr. Thurman has been involved with now or in the past, as well as Bob Moe, and they have done nothing to make reparations with any person. If someone that you are with murders someone else, you are an accomplice, as are Mr Thurman and Mr. Moe, and anyone else who is keeping their company still. I hope they rot in a cell one day. Oh and congrats on the driving the BMW, that is so awesome. You have become my hero by mentioning that. Ginger Wilkerson used to tell us about her infinity, that was actually a used piece of crap. Maybe you will end up in Jail with all these crooks as well. There is a class action Lawsuit coming soon, that I am involved with, and maybe you should leave your job before you get caught up. Also, for the person that said maybe we should look at the time and effort we put into the business, when I see people getting taken to the bank by another and coerced into giving them money for product, that is the end of the line for me.
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#25 UPDATE Employee

The Truth

AUTHOR: Kevin - (U.S.A.)

There is a difference between Equinox, Phoenix,and Paragon. First of all the FTC didn't close Equinox because it was a scam. The owner of the company was slandering the government, didn't pay taxes, and had sexual harassment lawsuits against him and on a conference call to all the distributors he shut the company down. I know this because I have several friends who did extremely well in that company. Since the closing they have moved on to own businesses and become quite successful in the mortgage biz. Phoenix was a mistake in my eyes. That was the company that I got started in. There were 3 owners but only one of them was bad and because of that a lot of people have suffered and for that I'm sorry. Unfortunately there is nothing I can do about it. What we have done is 12 of us and Bwana Thurman (the most ethical owner of phoenix usa) started a new company and I am very proud to say it is called PARAGON USA. A majority of the people who started this company are church going people. How do I know? I attend the church of Jacksonville with them. I have known Bwana Thurman for 4 years. He has become one of my best friends. The weekend my dad died from cancer he flew from Indiana to Charleston sc, to attend the funeral and meet the family. A person who rips you off doesn't do that. I personally know on more than one occasion of him terminating distributors for unethical practices. If you do the research network marketing is a great industry to be a part of but it is not for everyone. There are so many companies in this industry and a lot of people who fail at it, which we never hide that fact. It doesn't mean that it doesn't work, it just means that the person who failed and the company just weren't a good match. After 4 long and hard years in this industry I am not a millionaire nor am I close to being one, but I have created a comfortable life. I live where I want to, shop where I want to, drive what I want )528i bmw) but I have worked my but off for it and it wasn't a cakewalk. I have had good months and bad months, and I do everything I can to prepare the people in my organization for a rainy day just like Mr. Thurman taught me. Weither you are a part of network marketing now or later, you will be.
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#26 UPDATE Employee

The Truth

AUTHOR: Kevin - (U.S.A.)

There is a difference between Equinox, Phoenix,and Paragon. First of all the FTC didn't close Equinox because it was a scam. The owner of the company was slandering the government, didn't pay taxes, and had sexual harassment lawsuits against him and on a conference call to all the distributors he shut the company down. I know this because I have several friends who did extremely well in that company. Since the closing they have moved on to own businesses and become quite successful in the mortgage biz. Phoenix was a mistake in my eyes. That was the company that I got started in. There were 3 owners but only one of them was bad and because of that a lot of people have suffered and for that I'm sorry. Unfortunately there is nothing I can do about it. What we have done is 12 of us and Bwana Thurman (the most ethical owner of phoenix usa) started a new company and I am very proud to say it is called PARAGON USA. A majority of the people who started this company are church going people. How do I know? I attend the church of Jacksonville with them. I have known Bwana Thurman for 4 years. He has become one of my best friends. The weekend my dad died from cancer he flew from Indiana to Charleston sc, to attend the funeral and meet the family. A person who rips you off doesn't do that. I personally know on more than one occasion of him terminating distributors for unethical practices. If you do the research network marketing is a great industry to be a part of but it is not for everyone. There are so many companies in this industry and a lot of people who fail at it, which we never hide that fact. It doesn't mean that it doesn't work, it just means that the person who failed and the company just weren't a good match. After 4 long and hard years in this industry I am not a millionaire nor am I close to being one, but I have created a comfortable life. I live where I want to, shop where I want to, drive what I want )528i bmw) but I have worked my but off for it and it wasn't a cakewalk. I have had good months and bad months, and I do everything I can to prepare the people in my organization for a rainy day just like Mr. Thurman taught me. Weither you are a part of network marketing now or later, you will be.
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#27 UPDATE Employee

The Truth

AUTHOR: Kevin - (U.S.A.)

There is a difference between Equinox, Phoenix,and Paragon. First of all the FTC didn't close Equinox because it was a scam. The owner of the company was slandering the government, didn't pay taxes, and had sexual harassment lawsuits against him and on a conference call to all the distributors he shut the company down. I know this because I have several friends who did extremely well in that company. Since the closing they have moved on to own businesses and become quite successful in the mortgage biz. Phoenix was a mistake in my eyes. That was the company that I got started in. There were 3 owners but only one of them was bad and because of that a lot of people have suffered and for that I'm sorry. Unfortunately there is nothing I can do about it. What we have done is 12 of us and Bwana Thurman (the most ethical owner of phoenix usa) started a new company and I am very proud to say it is called PARAGON USA. A majority of the people who started this company are church going people. How do I know? I attend the church of Jacksonville with them. I have known Bwana Thurman for 4 years. He has become one of my best friends. The weekend my dad died from cancer he flew from Indiana to Charleston sc, to attend the funeral and meet the family. A person who rips you off doesn't do that. I personally know on more than one occasion of him terminating distributors for unethical practices. If you do the research network marketing is a great industry to be a part of but it is not for everyone. There are so many companies in this industry and a lot of people who fail at it, which we never hide that fact. It doesn't mean that it doesn't work, it just means that the person who failed and the company just weren't a good match. After 4 long and hard years in this industry I am not a millionaire nor am I close to being one, but I have created a comfortable life. I live where I want to, shop where I want to, drive what I want )528i bmw) but I have worked my but off for it and it wasn't a cakewalk. I have had good months and bad months, and I do everything I can to prepare the people in my organization for a rainy day just like Mr. Thurman taught me. Weither you are a part of network marketing now or later, you will be.
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#28 UPDATE Employee

The Truth

AUTHOR: Kevin - (U.S.A.)

There is a difference between Equinox, Phoenix,and Paragon. First of all the FTC didn't close Equinox because it was a scam. The owner of the company was slandering the government, didn't pay taxes, and had sexual harassment lawsuits against him and on a conference call to all the distributors he shut the company down. I know this because I have several friends who did extremely well in that company. Since the closing they have moved on to own businesses and become quite successful in the mortgage biz. Phoenix was a mistake in my eyes. That was the company that I got started in. There were 3 owners but only one of them was bad and because of that a lot of people have suffered and for that I'm sorry. Unfortunately there is nothing I can do about it. What we have done is 12 of us and Bwana Thurman (the most ethical owner of phoenix usa) started a new company and I am very proud to say it is called PARAGON USA. A majority of the people who started this company are church going people. How do I know? I attend the church of Jacksonville with them. I have known Bwana Thurman for 4 years. He has become one of my best friends. The weekend my dad died from cancer he flew from Indiana to Charleston sc, to attend the funeral and meet the family. A person who rips you off doesn't do that. I personally know on more than one occasion of him terminating distributors for unethical practices. If you do the research network marketing is a great industry to be a part of but it is not for everyone. There are so many companies in this industry and a lot of people who fail at it, which we never hide that fact. It doesn't mean that it doesn't work, it just means that the person who failed and the company just weren't a good match. After 4 long and hard years in this industry I am not a millionaire nor am I close to being one, but I have created a comfortable life. I live where I want to, shop where I want to, drive what I want )528i bmw) but I have worked my but off for it and it wasn't a cakewalk. I have had good months and bad months, and I do everything I can to prepare the people in my organization for a rainy day just like Mr. Thurman taught me. Weither you are a part of network marketing now or later, you will be.
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#29 UPDATE Employee

Paragon USA should not be mentioned

AUTHOR: Derek - (U.S.A.)

I am currently an employee of Paragon USA and have been successful in only 1 month. I have never heard of Phoenix USA before now, but I have been doing some extensive research on the company for the past few days. Phoenix sounds like it had a bunch of crooks running their local offices.

The owner and founder of Paragon USA NEVER hides the fact that he created Paragon USA b/c he was tired of his previous co-founders unethical business adventures. He always says he created a more morally based company. If you ever gone to a local Paragon USA office, you would see that all the directors are genuinely kind and professional people.

In short, I do not think those with a grudge toward Phoenix USA should tarnish Paragon USA's name, at least not until you have gone to a meeting yourself and met some of the people.

Also, for those unsuccessful with Phoenix (or Paragon), maybe you could re-evaluate the time you put into making the business work. Neither businesses were "get rich quick" schemes. No judge in the country will rule in favor of laziness, no matter how much money you invested or how good of a friend your lawyer is.
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#30 UPDATE Employee

Paragon USA should not be mentioned

AUTHOR: Derek - (U.S.A.)

I am currently an employee of Paragon USA and have been successful in only 1 month. I have never heard of Phoenix USA before now, but I have been doing some extensive research on the company for the past few days. Phoenix sounds like it had a bunch of crooks running their local offices.

The owner and founder of Paragon USA NEVER hides the fact that he created Paragon USA b/c he was tired of his previous co-founders unethical business adventures. He always says he created a more morally based company. If you ever gone to a local Paragon USA office, you would see that all the directors are genuinely kind and professional people.

In short, I do not think those with a grudge toward Phoenix USA should tarnish Paragon USA's name, at least not until you have gone to a meeting yourself and met some of the people.

Also, for those unsuccessful with Phoenix (or Paragon), maybe you could re-evaluate the time you put into making the business work. Neither businesses were "get rich quick" schemes. No judge in the country will rule in favor of laziness, no matter how much money you invested or how good of a friend your lawyer is.
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#31 UPDATE Employee

Paragon USA should not be mentioned

AUTHOR: Derek - (U.S.A.)

I am currently an employee of Paragon USA and have been successful in only 1 month. I have never heard of Phoenix USA before now, but I have been doing some extensive research on the company for the past few days. Phoenix sounds like it had a bunch of crooks running their local offices.

The owner and founder of Paragon USA NEVER hides the fact that he created Paragon USA b/c he was tired of his previous co-founders unethical business adventures. He always says he created a more morally based company. If you ever gone to a local Paragon USA office, you would see that all the directors are genuinely kind and professional people.

In short, I do not think those with a grudge toward Phoenix USA should tarnish Paragon USA's name, at least not until you have gone to a meeting yourself and met some of the people.

Also, for those unsuccessful with Phoenix (or Paragon), maybe you could re-evaluate the time you put into making the business work. Neither businesses were "get rich quick" schemes. No judge in the country will rule in favor of laziness, no matter how much money you invested or how good of a friend your lawyer is.
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#32 UPDATE Employee

Paragon USA should not be mentioned

AUTHOR: Derek - (U.S.A.)

I am currently an employee of Paragon USA and have been successful in only 1 month. I have never heard of Phoenix USA before now, but I have been doing some extensive research on the company for the past few days. Phoenix sounds like it had a bunch of crooks running their local offices.

The owner and founder of Paragon USA NEVER hides the fact that he created Paragon USA b/c he was tired of his previous co-founders unethical business adventures. He always says he created a more morally based company. If you ever gone to a local Paragon USA office, you would see that all the directors are genuinely kind and professional people.

In short, I do not think those with a grudge toward Phoenix USA should tarnish Paragon USA's name, at least not until you have gone to a meeting yourself and met some of the people.

Also, for those unsuccessful with Phoenix (or Paragon), maybe you could re-evaluate the time you put into making the business work. Neither businesses were "get rich quick" schemes. No judge in the country will rule in favor of laziness, no matter how much money you invested or how good of a friend your lawyer is.
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#33 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Scamed in Richmond Va... forced to have sex

AUTHOR: George - (U.S.A.)

I got involved with Phoenix usa in Richmond Va.I bought into thier B.s.And was taken for over 5000.

I was told that the owner wanted me aboard and had big plans for me.When i began to question things in the company i was looked away from more and more.Things were adding up and i became worried i had talked with other people and they felt the sameway.One women had her credit card used without permission to buy more inventory.

I also heard of another women who was forced to have sex to get promoted.This company needs to go down. Everytime you think you got them somewhere they close up shop and move.

One of thier top women left the company only to tell stories of visits to one of the founders boats for sex for promotions.
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#34 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Ex Employee Agrees with Jason/ Same Experience

AUTHOR: Michael - (U.S.A.)

Jason,

after reading your post it brought back all the memories I had of dealing with Environet/ Pheonix USA/ whatever else they call their compan. I was living in Charleston, SC at the time around the summer of 2001 when I was duped by this company. I remember some of the names of the people you mentioned such as Bwana, Paul Raddlebauer, Wally Ponder, Walter Scott, and other such as Greg Davis and I even went to high school with Jenny Cooper.

Funny while I was in high school I was introduced to Equinox and thought no it was scam only to be scammed by them in the long run. I had some of the same experiences with them. I won't list them because it would take too long. I have some information that may or may not be helpful to you if I can remember it all correctly.

I along with the others on my team wanted to have these people go down in a bad way, but didn't. All we did was find where their so called corporate office was (some kind of garage with an office attached to it in Summerville, SC). They tried to double charge me for one of their so called can't miss seminars. The ironic thing about that is the one I attended was actually in Knoxville, TN.

CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.

I have sinced joined the Marine Corps and have fulfilled myself much more then ripping people off as they do. I look forward to hearing form you, and I can't believe these people are still business and ripping people off.
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#35 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Ex Employee Agrees with Jason/ Same Experience

AUTHOR: Michael - (U.S.A.)

Jason,

after reading your post it brought back all the memories I had of dealing with Environet/ Pheonix USA/ whatever else they call their compan. I was living in Charleston, SC at the time around the summer of 2001 when I was duped by this company. I remember some of the names of the people you mentioned such as Bwana, Paul Raddlebauer, Wally Ponder, Walter Scott, and other such as Greg Davis and I even went to high school with Jenny Cooper.

Funny while I was in high school I was introduced to Equinox and thought no it was scam only to be scammed by them in the long run. I had some of the same experiences with them. I won't list them because it would take too long. I have some information that may or may not be helpful to you if I can remember it all correctly.

I along with the others on my team wanted to have these people go down in a bad way, but didn't. All we did was find where their so called corporate office was (some kind of garage with an office attached to it in Summerville, SC). They tried to double charge me for one of their so called can't miss seminars. The ironic thing about that is the one I attended was actually in Knoxville, TN.

CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.

I have sinced joined the Marine Corps and have fulfilled myself much more then ripping people off as they do. I look forward to hearing form you, and I can't believe these people are still business and ripping people off.
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#36 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Ex Employee Agrees with Jason/ Same Experience

AUTHOR: Michael - (U.S.A.)

Jason,

after reading your post it brought back all the memories I had of dealing with Environet/ Pheonix USA/ whatever else they call their compan. I was living in Charleston, SC at the time around the summer of 2001 when I was duped by this company. I remember some of the names of the people you mentioned such as Bwana, Paul Raddlebauer, Wally Ponder, Walter Scott, and other such as Greg Davis and I even went to high school with Jenny Cooper.

Funny while I was in high school I was introduced to Equinox and thought no it was scam only to be scammed by them in the long run. I had some of the same experiences with them. I won't list them because it would take too long. I have some information that may or may not be helpful to you if I can remember it all correctly.

I along with the others on my team wanted to have these people go down in a bad way, but didn't. All we did was find where their so called corporate office was (some kind of garage with an office attached to it in Summerville, SC). They tried to double charge me for one of their so called can't miss seminars. The ironic thing about that is the one I attended was actually in Knoxville, TN.

CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.

I have sinced joined the Marine Corps and have fulfilled myself much more then ripping people off as they do. I look forward to hearing form you, and I can't believe these people are still business and ripping people off.
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#37 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Ex Employee Agrees with Jason/ Same Experience

AUTHOR: Michael - (U.S.A.)

Jason,

after reading your post it brought back all the memories I had of dealing with Environet/ Pheonix USA/ whatever else they call their compan. I was living in Charleston, SC at the time around the summer of 2001 when I was duped by this company. I remember some of the names of the people you mentioned such as Bwana, Paul Raddlebauer, Wally Ponder, Walter Scott, and other such as Greg Davis and I even went to high school with Jenny Cooper.

Funny while I was in high school I was introduced to Equinox and thought no it was scam only to be scammed by them in the long run. I had some of the same experiences with them. I won't list them because it would take too long. I have some information that may or may not be helpful to you if I can remember it all correctly.

I along with the others on my team wanted to have these people go down in a bad way, but didn't. All we did was find where their so called corporate office was (some kind of garage with an office attached to it in Summerville, SC). They tried to double charge me for one of their so called can't miss seminars. The ironic thing about that is the one I attended was actually in Knoxville, TN.

CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.

I have sinced joined the Marine Corps and have fulfilled myself much more then ripping people off as they do. I look forward to hearing form you, and I can't believe these people are still business and ripping people off.
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#38 UPDATE EX-employee responds

something should be done to shut this company down!!!

AUTHOR: Jason - (U.S.A.)

OOPS I FORGOT ONE MORE THING ABOUT KNOXVILLE
Ginger Wilkinson started one of the branches of Phoenix USA in Knoxville. Well, guess how she did it, and this comes straight from the horses mouth (or maybe i should say cow), "I started the office in Knoxville with Drug money from one of my boyfriends who is a drug dealer down there!" Now dont you think that
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#39 UPDATE EX-employee responds

something should be done to shut this company down!!!

AUTHOR: Jason - (U.S.A.)

OOPS I FORGOT ONE MORE THING ABOUT KNOXVILLE
Ginger Wilkinson started one of the branches of Phoenix USA in Knoxville. Well, guess how she did it, and this comes straight from the horses mouth (or maybe i should say cow), "I started the office in Knoxville with Drug money from one of my boyfriends who is a drug dealer down there!" Now dont you think that
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#40 UPDATE EX-employee responds

something should be done to shut this company down!!!

AUTHOR: Jason - (U.S.A.)

OOPS I FORGOT ONE MORE THING ABOUT KNOXVILLE
Ginger Wilkinson started one of the branches of Phoenix USA in Knoxville. Well, guess how she did it, and this comes straight from the horses mouth (or maybe i should say cow), "I started the office in Knoxville with Drug money from one of my boyfriends who is a drug dealer down there!" Now dont you think that
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#41 UPDATE EX-employee responds

PHOENIX USA IS GOING TO PAY FOR EVERYONE THEY HAVE RIPPED OFF

AUTHOR: Jason - (U.S.A.)

Well folks, i am back again. We need the media to get a hold of this story, the lies the scams and the scandals of phoenix usa and its former owners. They have now broke up and started their own companies doing the same damn thing of ripping people off.

Wally Ponder, Bwana Thurman, Paul Radlebauer. If you hear these names RUN. DONT GIVE THEM OR THEIR BRAIN WASHED EMPLOYEES YOUR MONEY.

Here are a few more names to look out for, and if i ever find you i will personally kick your F*cking teeth in. JENNY COOPER, MATT BOOTH, WALTER SCOTT, BEN GIBBS, GINGER WILKINSON, AND THEIR ARE MORE AND MORE.

Good old Bwana doesnt know it, but he will be face to face with me in court in about a month. People do not be scammed by these total ass clowns like i was.

They are the scum of the earth, and all they want to do is rip you off. THey have already got a lot of unfortunate people here in evansville when they were here under the name twin dynasty. Now MR ANDY BASS has stepped up and taken over the office and changed the name. Also beware of PARAGON (bwana's new rip off company), and Henderson PRO in Kentucky. Thanks everyone.

If you have gotten ripped off by these asses, maybe i can help you file a claim against them!! Since one of my good friends is a top lawyer here in evansville, and two of my good friends are on city council. ANDY BASS, if you are reading this, you are going to be shut down SOON!

Oh and Knoxville Tennessee woman, you are so far up their asses, you can chew their food for them! Other people are making money because they are ripping off new people, dont try to make it ethical B*tch!
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#42 UPDATE Employee

FALSE STATEMENTS!!!

AUTHOR: Candace - (U.S.A.)

As an employee of Diversified Solutions, I can tell you that there are more people in the company making ALOT of money besides the founders. Further, I was an environmentalist before I ever darkened the doors of Diversified. The orange swirls in the water actually ARE traces of petroleum. Don't believe me? Fine. Ask anyone who works at the labs in Oak Ridge. Look it up on the internet.

Again, I am sorry that you had a bad experience with our company. But just because it wasn't for you doesn't mean that you should bash us! It seems to me that you are just bitter that it didn't work for you, when the only reason it didn't work for you is because you didn't work for it, at least not hard enough.

Furthermore, our ads are NOT misleading. They say that there is "potential" to earn $750 a week. Everyone perceives the things they see differently. It's a proven psychological fact. If someone misinterprets our ads, that's just not something we have any control over.

I sincerely hope for you that you find something that you can be happy doing, because I love my job. And one of the main reasons is that I have the opportunity to work with genuine people.
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