• Report: #93095

Complaint Review: Dr Luis Arriaza - Dennis Wong - IXP.net - 2by2.net

  • Submitted: Wed, May 26, 2004
  • Updated: Sun, June 03, 2007

  • Reported By:Azusa California
Dr Luis Arriaza - Dennis Wong - IXP.net - 2by2.net
333 City Drive Orange, California U.S.A.

Dr Luis Arriaza - Dennis Wong - IXP.net - 2by2.net ripoff MLM SCAM They will steal your money make false promises and rip you off Orange California

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: I Had the Same experience

*Consumer Comment: I ALMOST got duped by a beautiful woman!

*Consumer Suggestion: sorry about the broken link

*Consumer Suggestion: Yorvoice.net is all about the money from new recruits

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: IXP is a scam

*REBUTTAL Individual responds: IXP.net now it's called YOR.NET

*REBUTTAL Individual responds: IXP.net now it's called YOR.NET

*REBUTTAL Individual responds: IXP.net now it's called YOR.NET

*Consumer Suggestion: Quick Story and a Question

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Yor .net aka: 2by2 & IXP - Ripoff artists - a Pyramid Scheme - They changed their name to avoid the authorities.

*Consumer Comment: 2by2 reps, remember this response a few years down the road.

*Consumer Comment: 2by2 reps, remember this response a few years down the road.

*Consumer Comment: 2by2 reps, remember this response a few years down the road.

*Consumer Comment: 2by2 reps, remember this response a few years down the road.

*UPDATE Employee: I joined Yor.com [2by2's new name] 3 days ago and...

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: think

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: this is the truth behind bull****...I mean MML

*Consumer Comment: That was some of the most ridiculous crap I've ever heard

*UPDATE Employee: absolutely outrageous rants with no evidence cannot be ignored for the well-being of yor.com

*UPDATE Employee: yor.com is the biggest scam EVER!!!!!

*Consumer Suggestion: Important Addition 2004-2006

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: EX-REP from Mexico

*Consumer Suggestion: Just did One meeting!!!! 390&& raised a big red flag.

*Consumer Comment: Went to the meeting...

*Consumer Comment: Dealt with them as well.

*UPDATE Employee: I have been working with IXP for 2 months

*REBUTTAL Individual responds: 2by2.net ruin my credit

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: IXP morals of getting employees

*Consumer Comment: Just Got Back From IXP Presentation

*Consumer Suggestion: IXP MAYBE A RIP BUT EH WHAT YOU GONNA DO

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: It's A Waste Of Time And Money

*Consumer Comment: I'm staying away.

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: IXP is a freakin scam, just a college kid who wanted to make money

*UPDATE Employee: IXP.NET: Shady, very shady indeed.

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Greg Is In Denial...IXP is DYING

*UPDATE Employee: mary you don't understand ..facts are true b/c most of the people don't make all the money..it's been told..

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Here are the stats the PROVE everyone's argument

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: A Fair and Balanced Look

*Consumer Comment: Same garbage being reposted and reposted

*UPDATE Employee: Well said ..It is true that all these responses from reps are "canned".

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Good response, I am sure that whoever ur team leader is will be very happy.

*UPDATE Employee: UNDERSTAND YOUR OPINION..BUT IT'S STILL AN OPINION

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Be Careful I felt the same way about Dennis Wong

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: my own story

*Consumer Comment: The good, the bad, and the ugly.

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: IXP does a great job...brainwashing

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: IXP does a great job...brainwashing

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: IXP does a great job...brainwashing

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: IXP does a great job...brainwashing

*UPDATE Employee: Oddly Enough...

*Consumer Comment: The numbers game

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: FACTS AND HISTORY DO NOT LIE

*UPDATE Employee: THIS IS A GOOD ONE!!!!!!!

*UPDATE Employee: What sense do you make? Netzero has been increasing their customer base

*UPDATE Employee: What sense do you make? Netzero has been increasing their customer base

*UPDATE Employee: What sense do you make? Netzero has been increasing their customer base

*UPDATE Employee: What sense do you make? Netzero has been increasing their customer base

*Consumer Comment: Buggy whips and engine cranks - you're marketing an obsolete product!

*UPDATE Employee: Quick Fact ..AOL just sent about 8 million customers a letter stating that they can no longer offer them broadband.

*UPDATE Employee: Quick Fact ..AOL just sent about 8 million customers a letter stating that they can no longer offer them broadband.

*UPDATE Employee: Quick Fact ..AOL just sent about 8 million customers a letter stating that they can no longer offer them broadband.

*UPDATE Employee: Quick Fact ..AOL just sent about 8 million customers a letter stating that they can no longer offer them broadband.

*Consumer Comment: Looks like brainwashing to me

*UPDATE Employee: My side. this negative stuff about IXP and it just drives me crazy.

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Great Brainwashing, and lots of BS ..Dennis Wong and Jeff Morgan have had lawsuits against them for deceptive marketing practices in their previous MLM companies, and also in 2by2/IXP.

*UPDATE Employee: WOW I can not believe there is so much negativity in this world

*UPDATE Employee: WOW I can not believe there is so much negativity in this world

*UPDATE Employee: WOW I can not believe there is so much negativity in this world

*UPDATE Employee: WOW I can not believe there is so much negativity in this world

*UPDATE Employee: The Ultimate Change: Financially and Emotionally

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Look At Arriaza's and Wong's History

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Look At Arriaza's and Wong's History

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Look At Arriaza's and Wong's History

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Same guy writing all these support reports

*UPDATE Employee: I Love IXP

*UPDATE Employee: The mark of an educated mind is to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Leadership Trainee

*UPDATE Employee: It's not a scam

*UPDATE Employee: This is the Greatest Company

*UPDATE Employee: This is the Greatest Company

*UPDATE Employee: This is the Greatest Company

*UPDATE Employee: This is the Greatest Company

*UPDATE Employee: Any of the people out there who think IXP.NET is a scam, take a look at yourself and read more about the industry we are in

*UPDATE Employee: My Thoughts on IXP.NET

*Consumer Suggestion: Internet Company IXP is a ri-off needs to be shut down I almost fell for their lies

*Consumer Comment: Excellent. If we want our repots to have weight, then it is important that everyone holds all posters to a level of honesty and truthfulness.

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Here is where you can find the facts

*Consumer Comment: Legalities aside

*UPDATE Employee: It's your own choice. This is NOT a scam.

*Consumer Suggestion: THAT IS THE TRUTH! ..TRICKED ME TOO!

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These 2 people named are the big leader and founder of this company. They tell all kinds of lies to get people to join.

People are invited to a "computer" or "technology" meeting, and then presented a brain-washed sales pitch by these guys. The reps in the audience are trained to yell out certain words and responses like parrots at certain points in the presentation.

Then they pressure you to join, and dont let you leave if you dont want to. They will go get other leaders and reps who will try to make you feel stupid if you do not join.

They say it is e-commerce and that it is all legit, but I have checked it out and found that the Better Business Bureau has given it a negative rating, and that the FTC has a big lawsuit against them for fraud and deception.

Worst of all, Arriaza and Wong talk about being servants of God, yet the whole time they are stealing people's money.

The whole point is to recruit other people to join so you can get a match pay. This is a total pyramid scheme. I know it is just a matter of time until it gets shut down.

WATCH OUT IF YOU ARE INVITED TO A MEETING BECAUSE THESE GUYS ARE VERY CHARMING AND CONVINCING! BUT THE WHOLE TIME THEY ARE LYING TO YOU, TELLING YOU WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR SO YOU WILL GIVE THEM YOUR MONEY!!!!

Marcus
Azusa, California
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 05/26/2004 03:52 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Dr-Luis-Arriaza-Dennis-Wong-IXPnet-2by2net/Orange-California/Dr-Luis-Arriaza-Dennis-Wong-IXPnet-2by2net-ripoff-MLM-SCAM-They-will-steal-your-mo-93095. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

Ripoff Report has an exclusive license to this report. It may not be copied without the written permission of Ripoff Report.

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#1 UPDATE EX-employee responds

I Had the Same experience

AUTHOR: Brian - (U.S.A.)

I feel your pain yea when i went to their meeting one of their so called "managers" try to pressure me in signing and applying right away and paying the $1000 right there. But i stood my ground while he try to convince me in joining it sadly that some of my friends that work there try to convince me to joining.

But i decline strongly they are the stupid ones getting scammed not me sadly they cant see it the way we do. Also whenever i go to the mall Queens Center Mall i always see a bunch of them trying to hire new ppl. Pathetic $1000 for joining ? ha dont make me laugh ! pyramid sheme its all a scheme wells dude nice job on asking them tough questions loL.
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#2 Consumer Comment

I ALMOST got duped by a beautiful woman!

AUTHOR: Fred - (U.S.A.)

Greetings,
I was schmoozed into attending a meeting to learn more about the company "yorvoice.com, yornet.com" from a very attractive female representative. They used high pressure sales tactics to try to pressure me into signing up on the spot. I had to fight and persevere to maintain my poise, dignity, and my money! They talked about "leveragement" and asked whether I was serious or whether I was just trying to look good in front of them.

First of all "leveragement" is not a word and this was coming from the top sales lady who works directly with the company founder! (so they say! lol) Second of all they actually drew a pyramid on a piece of paper and showed us where we could buy into it depending upon our "drive" and "level of commitment." $3500 for 7 "profit centers."

Now, after speaking with the lady about profit ratios it was clear to me that she did not know what a profit center even is. I do not mean to sound rude but neither my rep, nor the lady talking about the "profit centers" was articulate or professional. Even Denis Wong sounded inarticulate in the video presented and the main presenter of the evening Josh Lau, even uttered an expletive.

Professional? I don't think so. As a 3rd year law student I can smell unprofessionalism a mile away, trust me! Furthermore, I could go out and prosecute them in 7 months after taking the bar exam. Hmm, I guess my rep didn't think about THAT one. (how uninformed can someone be?) They initially convinced me to attend the meeting because I told the rep I did not want to practice law. Now I may have to rethink that because this scheme has aroused a prosecutorial desire within me!

10% of the time was spent on the actual broadband phone product and 90% of the time was spent trying to convince people to sign up and recruit people for "team building." Think about it folks- if their product is so great then why do they expend so much energy recruiting people to sell it as opposed to maintaining a small elite, sales force with more potential for sales commissions? Because they make their money from RECRUITING and not actual sale of the product.

Can anyone else see how this is an unsustainable business model? Think about this too - if your rep already knows about the product and they should if they are selling it and attending meetings every night of the week, then why are they still taking notes like someone who has never been introduced to the product or company? (pavlov)

Lastly, why couldn't anyone give me any information on the company's financials, projected earnings, or average earnings of the sales reps? (and tried to talk down to me about worrying about what everyone else is making?) Oh aside from the $300 billion per day that the industry will grow to in 10 years? (oh really now?) They even employed subtle psychological techniques to try lower my social status to theirs. As if...

According to the law of exponential growth the downline will eventually dry out once too many people become involved in the scheme if the profit is primarily based on recruiting rather than sales of the product.

Sooo I inquired about the number of sales reps and whether they would put a cap on how many sales reps they would have in any given area. Their response was (a) the industry is expected to grow to $300 billion per day (all together now, oh really?), (b) "we are trying to get the word out" and (c) there is a limitless abundance of opportunity if you act now (anyone notice the paradox here?)Does anyone notice that my original question was non-skillfully avoided?

This one guy told me how you could make $500 (big money there) wiring houses up with the adapter device. Basically he explained to me how to dupe people into believing they need more than one device so you sell them multiple boxes, wire their house, and then reap profits from the sale of more than one box to one person. Sounds fishy. Think about this, if the industry is doing $300 billion a day in 10 years then, not accounting for inflation or time value of money, that would equal annual sales of 1.09514 which is $109,500,000,000,000 in today's dollars. In common words roughly 110 TRILLION dollars in annual sales.

Ok, ok that is an industry estimate but it sill rings very false when the TIA global telecom estimate for total telecommunications sales is about 3 Trillion for 2010. Remember people that is an industry estimate so Yor(whatever)'s share of that pie is going to be a lot less than $300 billion per day if that figure is even accurate.

Oh yeah, my favorite was when I asked the top sales lady what the ratio was between profit from sales as opposed to profit from recruiting. Guess what? She avoided my question again and I think I had her stumped. I actually started to dominate the conversation and they couldn't answer any of my questions and just got silent all of a sudden. My favorite was when my sales rep said "you shouldn't invest in real estate because no one has made any money in that since the 1980's." (Ohhh, really?) But I thought Trump was bankrupt back in 2004?

So how did make his billions back? Playing golf in Florida? Didn't think so. Here is a woman who cannot give me the most basic financial info about HER company, and she she is telling me not to pursue my original dream? Hmmm. Think about THAT one folks and yet she was in the self-development section of Barnes & Noble telling me about Hill's Think and Grow Rich book.

I am thinking, well it's about time you started using your brain and applying the principles from that book! If you are in the Think and Grow Rich mindset you would not be tripping over dollars to pick up rocks from the ground! Furthermore, I didn't tell her that I already have his 4 volume treatise on the laws of success which I am waiting to read upon finishing other self-development courses that I am working on (Master Key System anyone? haha!), so there!

They did manage to swindle $5 from me for a DVD about "Brilliant Compensation." Right now I am extremely happy about that because $5 is a whole lot less than $390 (no chance of making any money) $1500 (very little chance of making any money), or $3500 (possible chance of recouping investment cost?) Interesting points to consider people - (a) experienced reps take notes like new people who have never heard of the opportunity before (b)use of hard edged persuasion techniques designed to make you feel inferior and play upon your insecurities so only they can save you from your own wallowing sadness and ignorance (c) for us or against us war and combat mentality unceremoniously imposed on you, (d) promotional scheme and carefully veiled additional startup and business costs (you are not aware of at first) (e) ignorance as to the average ROI (return of investment) (f) ask you for your social security # right off the bat before even signing up with them! Oh yeah, I'm just getting warmed up...

Feels really funny, and SMELLS like 7 day old rotten fish and eggs. People, if you know what is good for you, then do your homework, read books, get knowledge, and stay true to yourselves. This is a thinly veiled scam and the people running it are laughing their way to the bank while leading you along like sheep. Kind of reminds me of Earl Nightingale who says there are too many followers and not enough leaders. I rest my case.
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#3 Consumer Suggestion

sorry about the broken link

AUTHOR: Nam - (U.S.A.)

For some reason I can't give out the link to my blog, so here is the shorter version:

I suddenly ran into a Chinese guy in school and he told me to come to work for a technology firm. I should be there early and dressed up.

When I got to the hotel, the guy already there with 2 other guys. They are waiting outside the hotel. At first glance, I thought: "It seems like a good company. Lots of people in line, all were dressed up and everything." We waited for an hour to get inside the hotel, and also another hour because there wasn't enough people to fill the room. I talked to 2 new guys, who were the first-timer like me. Both of them were recently graduated and was introduced here by a Yor rep when they were at job fair, she was very nice-looking Asian girl by the way. My friend, whose name is T, and his friend R, and the pretty Asian girl W, constantly brag about how big and potential this business is. Especially the guy R, he kept talking non-stop and non-stop about the money, about the manager who is only 24 years old but making millions of dollars, to the point that it is became annoying, and I started to have doubt. While we were talking, the speaker of the night walked in. He was accompany with about 7, 8 people and they looked pretty much like President of the U.S with body guards. They walked very serious, straight, fast, and no attention to anybody around.

Finally we got into the big room, lots of people, must be around 200 people. I rushed into the front, about 5 rows behind the top one. The girl started the event was an African-American girl. She looked very young, and very nice smile. She talked a bit of introduction. The crowd was very excited and the atsmophere was overwhemingly positive. Finally, the lights turned off for the 7-minute video in the big projector.

The video, as I expected, was nothing but a sucessful story from the founder Dennis Wong. They ask if you want a second income besides your current job? What if you there is an accident? In case of emergency? The movie show a homeless person, the switch to upbeat music with glamour scene of people having a fun party. Duh, it's obvious that having the second source of income is good, everybody knows that. What I want to know is how to make the money, NOT how necessary to have extra source of income. The video was good though, the way the founder Dennis Wong narrative with his own voice, fast tempo, and the nice music surely get you warm up for the long 2 hours of waiting outside.

Then the girl came back and introduced the man speaker, the guy who walked like a President I've mentioned earlier. I can tell this guy is young and charming. His introduction was all about the girl. How smart she is, and how she has helped the company blah blah. Then he switch to the money subject, asking so obvious questions such as: "Who here want to have more money?" The crowd was very enthusiatic. Too enthusiatic that the astmophere became kind of fake. There is always someone respond to his mark very positively: "That's right!" "Yeah!" When he says something: "Raise your hand if you want" Everybody was raising their hand like a robot, except me and a 2 guys in front of me. He then said: "If you couldn't raise your hand to show your positive attitude, you should remove yourself from here." I knew he was implying me and a few others, but I didn't care.

Funny thing happened, at one point he asked: "To start a small business requires lots of initial investment, to open a Mc Donal restaurent in NY, you need 1.3 mil, who here has that kind of money?" And 1 of the 2 guys I mentioned above raised his hand. He seemed confident so I guess he's a business man who was curious about what this presentation is about.

As for the content of the evening, nothing informative was show. The screen showed the evolution of Microsoft PC, then cell phone, then internet. His point was that at the time people had those things, nobody believe they worked out, and look how popular they are today. He use them as an exampels to say that the broadband phone will be the next big thing. It's 300 billions dollars pipe with no source to back up that data. You know when you look at newspaper advertising, there is usually the * right next to the *supposely* big words, then at the bottom they show the source to validate the claim?

Nothing like that here. He then said that there are A, B and C type of people, and the A type are the hungry-type people who want to be success. I also like the analogy: "If I'm telling you to pay $1000 in order to have the key to my $50,000 car outside, would you do it?" then "we usually think about the 50K result but never thought about what lead us into that 50K, the $1000." And finally the screen showed the cost of started package: $390. He even went on to say: "If you don't have money, use your credit card because you will get those back after a week, and don't ever tell me that you don't have $390, because if you're 18 and don't have that amount, you have problem." As usual, the crowed agreed enthusiastically: "Yeah!"

He then introduced 3 people upstart, 1 asian girl, 1 asian guy (also the guy who tried to get me pay at the end) and 1 black guy to tell their own story. At this point the 2 guy sit in front of me left, and they were shood to walk out using the right aisle not the center one. I guess a lot of Reps were pissed because even though there were only 2 people left, it wasn't suppose to happen at all. I guess being having 1.3 million dollars, he was no stranger with MLM pyramic scheme. After they left for 10 mins, the speaker said: "Those people who left are C people, they don't have desire blah blah"

My guess was that 60% of people were Reps and 40% were new people like me. For the total of 200-300 people, that is about 120 new people. Assuming 100 of them signed up after the presentation, that is $39,000 right there in one night. And even though they have to pay for the room in New Yorker hotel, I then realized that they have it every week (Thursday and Sunday) so the price would not be so expensive with the long-term contract.

At the end, the gir W tried to sign me up. I told her nicely: "I think this is working but I need time to think about it." Then she said: "So I guess you're B type people" (B type is people who wants to do business but with hestitation) and I said: "I guess so." She didn't know what else to say. She then brought example: "You know Donal Trump? I talked to him and he said the only way to get rich is Network Marketing. I didn't say that, he said that himself" Still no response from me, the Asian guy, who was stand in the podium earlier, jumped in: "Tell you what, when I first got here I was like you, but I signed up a week later, and I lost my spot to someone else. And now that person makes a lot more money than me."

I told him that I'm skeptical and I need more time to research, and that the presentation is still lacking information. He then told me: "Why you don't give me a deposit so I can hold the spot for you?" I still said "No" I thanked him, say good bye to my college friend T and walked out of there. At that time, I realized I was the ONLY one who walked out. Most people were still in there with the Reps like a sale man tries to sell you a car.

I feel sorry for those people who stay. I'm not saying I'm smarter than them, because even if they use a little common sense, they would realize that there is something seriously wrong:

1. As I said, when I first got in, the reps, who are my friend and friend's friend, boasting all about how young, smart, and rich the manager is. Who cares really? Am I here to know about someone else's wealth? I'm here to have opportunity to make money for myself.

2. From the beginning to the end, the most word you would here is: "Money." How to be your own boss, how to getting raise, how to get paid by the company to travel etc. Even before getting into the room, that turned me off big time. I mean: "Is this what those people really believe in? Money?" Life is NOT always about the money. If it is, then where is the "group work, great relationships" that they have been talking about? Even T asked me: "What's your dream car?" and he said: "My dream is that I have a big house, nice car, and a wife."

3. The whole crowed is very fake. Remember there were at least 50% of people there were the Reps themselves, and they took notes. Duh, how long have you guys been in this same video and speech already? They cheered very enthusiastically, and raised their hand like a robot. UP! DOWN!

4. No legitimate business wants to get your money up front so desperately. I meant, the company don't care about your background, how good you are, they take you as long as you have the money. They talk so little about product but so much about how much money you would make by joining them. If that isn't a red flag then I don't really know what is.

I'm pretty sure that Yor is a scam MLM company, they make money by recruiting new people, not by selling product. They do have a policy where one reps have to find at least 2 customers, but that is just a way to run around the legal issue. Please read the links I've listed above before wasting your time and money to feed those unethical pigs.

I did send email telling my friend who referred me about this company. I know he's a good guy and was brainwashed by them. I haven't heard reply from him, but I already done what I had to. Listen to me or not is up to him now.

P.S Please excuse me for poor grammar and spelling errors, I'm in rush right now to let my thoughts out (afraid I'd forget)
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#4 Consumer Suggestion

Yorvoice.net is all about the money from new recruits

AUTHOR: Nam - (U.S.A.)

I have posted my personal experience on my blog about the Yorvoice.net seminar evening on March 1st 2007. The post is too long so I've posted it on myspace blog.

(((ROR REDACTED LINK FOR SECURITY PURPOSES)))

CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.
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#5 UPDATE EX-employee responds

IXP is a scam

AUTHOR: Eric - (U.S.A.)

I have to admit.I got fooled by them.I actually joined in their business.Because,I thought it was a good business and I thought I was gonna make money but few months later,I never make money from this company.So I quit and the sad thing about it,the lady that I know who recruited me for this, is a daughter of my mother's close friend and ex-co worker on nursing job.And it is true,that everyone would have to pay $400 if they want join to become a e-commerce/sales representative.And some of their products they sale for internet serviceto the consumers are very cheap.Unlike other network marketing,they sale too expensive products like Market America (Product Brokerage Company)specializing to 1:1 marketing,internet marketing and product mass customization.MA products are cost a lot of fortunes.But anyway,that's not my point.IXP pay out is a rip off scam and it is totally a pyramid scheme.The reps would earn 40% if they can recruit 2 new people to become new reps and 5% for each two new customers.
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#6 REBUTTAL Individual responds

IXP.net now it's called YOR.NET

AUTHOR: Salas - (U.S.A.)

You are complete right, it all seems like a scam, yesterday I got approached by many of them, apparently they are posting millions of job applications recruiting individuals which have no goals in life and want to make "The big bucks", apparently the meeting was set in a "Starbucks".(I asked myself the same question), if its such a great business how come it doesn't have its own office?.
The whole point is as it was said before, they are very charming and convincing individuals, they maybe me doubt even thought I'm a hard head. They were charging me $390 to join they're "pyramid match scheme" plus I had to pay $50 for each product to sell. To be honest, I'm even doubting right now, because they brainwash you in a way that you even doubt of everything you're doing and your way of thinking, I know they are business people and they are "Sharks" when it comes to money.

Once again, they are very convincing, but what it killed it is the way some of the representatives were dressed, some had sneakers, other ones were talking to be in "vulgar" language and the persuasion of taking me to a meeting held at some hotel. I was lucky enough to trust my gut and be cautious on the situation, I hardly gave my personal information and asked to be given a walk through of what the business was about. I recommend you people to trust your gut and if something feels funny about the way they talk to you, just listen and go!!, also pay attention to your surroundings. Hope this helped some of you,
Don't forget "yor.net"
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#7 REBUTTAL Individual responds

IXP.net now it's called YOR.NET

AUTHOR: Salas - (U.S.A.)

You are complete right, it all seems like a scam, yesterday I got approached by many of them, apparently they are posting millions of job applications recruiting individuals which have no goals in life and want to make "The big bucks", apparently the meeting was set in a "Starbucks".(I asked myself the same question), if its such a great business how come it doesn't have its own office?.
The whole point is as it was said before, they are very charming and convincing individuals, they maybe me doubt even thought I'm a hard head. They were charging me $390 to join they're "pyramid match scheme" plus I had to pay $50 for each product to sell. To be honest, I'm even doubting right now, because they brainwash you in a way that you even doubt of everything you're doing and your way of thinking, I know they are business people and they are "Sharks" when it comes to money.

Once again, they are very convincing, but what it killed it is the way some of the representatives were dressed, some had sneakers, other ones were talking to be in "vulgar" language and the persuasion of taking me to a meeting held at some hotel. I was lucky enough to trust my gut and be cautious on the situation, I hardly gave my personal information and asked to be given a walk through of what the business was about. I recommend you people to trust your gut and if something feels funny about the way they talk to you, just listen and go!!, also pay attention to your surroundings. Hope this helped some of you,
Don't forget "yor.net"
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#8 REBUTTAL Individual responds

IXP.net now it's called YOR.NET

AUTHOR: Salas - (U.S.A.)

You are complete right, it all seems like a scam, yesterday I got approached by many of them, apparently they are posting millions of job applications recruiting individuals which have no goals in life and want to make "The big bucks", apparently the meeting was set in a "Starbucks".(I asked myself the same question), if its such a great business how come it doesn't have its own office?.
The whole point is as it was said before, they are very charming and convincing individuals, they maybe me doubt even thought I'm a hard head. They were charging me $390 to join they're "pyramid match scheme" plus I had to pay $50 for each product to sell. To be honest, I'm even doubting right now, because they brainwash you in a way that you even doubt of everything you're doing and your way of thinking, I know they are business people and they are "Sharks" when it comes to money.

Once again, they are very convincing, but what it killed it is the way some of the representatives were dressed, some had sneakers, other ones were talking to be in "vulgar" language and the persuasion of taking me to a meeting held at some hotel. I was lucky enough to trust my gut and be cautious on the situation, I hardly gave my personal information and asked to be given a walk through of what the business was about. I recommend you people to trust your gut and if something feels funny about the way they talk to you, just listen and go!!, also pay attention to your surroundings. Hope this helped some of you,
Don't forget "yor.net"
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#9 Consumer Suggestion

Quick Story and a Question

AUTHOR: Aaron - (U.S.A.)

Hi there,

I also have had an experience back when Yor was IXP. Much of the same things already reported happened to me, but I thought I would add some interesting tidbits that I did not see mentioned:

- at the beginning of the meeting, everyone was asked to take out their cellphones as a sort of mock contest to see whose was the sleekest. In reality, it was meant to demean those who were not in the program yet, obviously not complete with blackberries or blue tooths or whatever.

- the guy who was trying to recruit me was taking notes on what the main guy was saying. This struck me as kind of odd, since he would only be taking notes on things he already knew. I guess this was meant to be some sort of Pavlov's dogs affect on people so they would take notes as well.

- when the main guy would say something "startling" like the supposed amount of money you could make, people in the audience (all already working with IXP) would make loud exclamations of shock. This was almost comical, but I could see it affected some other people in the crowd who were caught up in the faux excitement.

Anyway, my question is this: would it help at all to fill in a complaint form about Yor with the FTC?

site found here - https://rn.ftc.gov/pls/dod/wsolcq%24.startup%3fZ_ORG_CODE%3dPU01

or have they managed to sidestep anything that this form would possibly complain about (getting people so sign seems to get them out of some technicalities)?
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#10 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Yor .net aka: 2by2 & IXP - Ripoff artists - a Pyramid Scheme - They changed their name to avoid the authorities.

AUTHOR: Swindled - (U.S.A.)

Nortorious Pyramid Scheme sweeping NYC (Yor.net or Yorvoice.net) --- Please stop them...

PLEASE HELP SHUT THEM DOWN!

2by2 or IXP.net goes by another name now:

Yor.net or Yorvoice.net, they claim to be a VOIP company. Watch out everyone they're all over New York City.

They changed their name to avoid the authorities.

View their illegal complaint, suit, and verdic at:
www.ftc.gov then perform search under their old name 2by2.net

or go straight to the location at:

http://www.ftc.gov/os/caselist/2by2net/2by2net.htm
Everything is stated there.

They are recruiting many through the internet.
Especially through Myspace.

They are running a Pyramid Scheme.
DON'T BELIEVE ANYTHING THEY SAY. THEY ARE COMPLETE LIARS!

They will say anything (TALKING IN CIRCLES) to STEAL ALL YOUR MONEY!

Contact your State Attorney General, The Federal Trade Commission (www.ftc.gov), and the Better Business Bureau (www.bbb.org) as soon as possible.

And before you sign anything or give money talk to a Consumer Rights Lawyer first. Don't let anyone pressure you into joining anything; do your research first.

Shut these crooks down!
Yor.net aka: (2by2.net, IXP. net)

They hold their Pyramid Scheme seminars on these days
Thursdays at 6:30pm - 10:00pm
Sundays at 2:00pm - 7:00pm
at the following location:

New Yorker Hotel
481 8th Ave At 33 St
New York, NY 10001

(212) 971-0101
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#11 Consumer Comment

2by2 reps, remember this response a few years down the road.

AUTHOR: Bo - (U.S.A.)

THINK.

I was one of the early members of 2by2 years ago when it started blowing up in the Bay Area around San Francisco and NorCal.

My friends and I all signed up, believed the hype, and spent lots of time and money visiting the training. After having a negative impact on our friendships, we all eventually quit before putting too much time and effort into it. I will admit, a couple of my friends made more money than they paid to join. Well, this doesn't include the cost of the gas money, training, and buying all of the fancy "show off" stuff to try to bait people into joining.

Current reps: heed my words. 2by2 will feed you all of the "if they aren't with me, they are against me" crap, and if someone says something bad about 2by2, they're haters or losers. This is not true. I for one, wouldn't be typing up all of this if I wasn't trying to help you guys out. Badmouthing the critics of 2by2 is basically brainwashing you to not think for yourself, and see both sides of it.

2by2 targets those who are right out of high school who have no idea of what to do in their lives, young people are easily impressionable. Reading all of these rep's emotional responses defending 2by2 made me laugh while sitting here on my computer. To think, I probably use to be JUST like that. So mindless, and fake.

Guess what guys? What percentage of those who joined 2by2 in California are still with the company? You wouldn't want to know. 2by2 IS a pyramid scheme that hides behind a bland product for legal protection that disguises their pyramid scheme. When I was a rep, the leaders had the gall to say that every business was a pyramid. While technically true, you don't have to buy in to work at McDonalds. And the greatest income chance isn't from luring your good friends into joining. There is a difference between a pyramid structure and a pyramid scheme.

2by2 works like this: Go to an area. Recruit all of the suckers they can find. Then once the fever dies down and they've sucked the money from the area's kids dry, move onto the next location where people don't know about their business practices.

THINK.

Next time you're in a 2by2 meeting...THINK. Just stop and THINK. What is all of the training about? Yes, recruitment. I remember trying to get more info on the online mall and ISP selling, no one would help me out.

Please, young men and women...do not join this "company." If you are part of it, do not bait your friends into joining. It's a joke. The only succesful people in 2by2 are crooks. I am not a sore loser of the system. I wish I had friends who weren't in 2by2 who could convince me to stop wasting my life in that company.

If you don't want to believe me, then I can live with that. I am not going to post my real name and address because I do not want a horde of the diehards contacting me. I suppose I'll take pleasure in you reading this a couple years down the road, saying to yourself: "s**t, I should have listened to that Anonymous guy, he was right, and I feel like a moron." The money you'll lose probably isn't going to bankrupt you (and don't get suckered into buying 7 spots, like one of my friends). If your friendships are starting to strain as a result of some MLM company, for the love of god...STOP!

Don't touch this company with a 100' pole. MLM = bad. Dennis Wong is probably laughing his a*s off, so is Duke Tubtin (if he's still with the company), crying on stage with his fake tears to lure you in deeper. I hope my writing here will save at least 1 potential 2by2 rep from wasting his/her time.

THINK, guys and gals, THINK.
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#12 Consumer Comment

2by2 reps, remember this response a few years down the road.

AUTHOR: Bo - (U.S.A.)

THINK.

I was one of the early members of 2by2 years ago when it started blowing up in the Bay Area around San Francisco and NorCal.

My friends and I all signed up, believed the hype, and spent lots of time and money visiting the training. After having a negative impact on our friendships, we all eventually quit before putting too much time and effort into it. I will admit, a couple of my friends made more money than they paid to join. Well, this doesn't include the cost of the gas money, training, and buying all of the fancy "show off" stuff to try to bait people into joining.

Current reps: heed my words. 2by2 will feed you all of the "if they aren't with me, they are against me" crap, and if someone says something bad about 2by2, they're haters or losers. This is not true. I for one, wouldn't be typing up all of this if I wasn't trying to help you guys out. Badmouthing the critics of 2by2 is basically brainwashing you to not think for yourself, and see both sides of it.

2by2 targets those who are right out of high school who have no idea of what to do in their lives, young people are easily impressionable. Reading all of these rep's emotional responses defending 2by2 made me laugh while sitting here on my computer. To think, I probably use to be JUST like that. So mindless, and fake.

Guess what guys? What percentage of those who joined 2by2 in California are still with the company? You wouldn't want to know. 2by2 IS a pyramid scheme that hides behind a bland product for legal protection that disguises their pyramid scheme. When I was a rep, the leaders had the gall to say that every business was a pyramid. While technically true, you don't have to buy in to work at McDonalds. And the greatest income chance isn't from luring your good friends into joining. There is a difference between a pyramid structure and a pyramid scheme.

2by2 works like this: Go to an area. Recruit all of the suckers they can find. Then once the fever dies down and they've sucked the money from the area's kids dry, move onto the next location where people don't know about their business practices.

THINK.

Next time you're in a 2by2 meeting...THINK. Just stop and THINK. What is all of the training about? Yes, recruitment. I remember trying to get more info on the online mall and ISP selling, no one would help me out.

Please, young men and women...do not join this "company." If you are part of it, do not bait your friends into joining. It's a joke. The only succesful people in 2by2 are crooks. I am not a sore loser of the system. I wish I had friends who weren't in 2by2 who could convince me to stop wasting my life in that company.

If you don't want to believe me, then I can live with that. I am not going to post my real name and address because I do not want a horde of the diehards contacting me. I suppose I'll take pleasure in you reading this a couple years down the road, saying to yourself: "s**t, I should have listened to that Anonymous guy, he was right, and I feel like a moron." The money you'll lose probably isn't going to bankrupt you (and don't get suckered into buying 7 spots, like one of my friends). If your friendships are starting to strain as a result of some MLM company, for the love of god...STOP!

Don't touch this company with a 100' pole. MLM = bad. Dennis Wong is probably laughing his a*s off, so is Duke Tubtin (if he's still with the company), crying on stage with his fake tears to lure you in deeper. I hope my writing here will save at least 1 potential 2by2 rep from wasting his/her time.

THINK, guys and gals, THINK.
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#13 Consumer Comment

2by2 reps, remember this response a few years down the road.

AUTHOR: Bo - (U.S.A.)

THINK.

I was one of the early members of 2by2 years ago when it started blowing up in the Bay Area around San Francisco and NorCal.

My friends and I all signed up, believed the hype, and spent lots of time and money visiting the training. After having a negative impact on our friendships, we all eventually quit before putting too much time and effort into it. I will admit, a couple of my friends made more money than they paid to join. Well, this doesn't include the cost of the gas money, training, and buying all of the fancy "show off" stuff to try to bait people into joining.

Current reps: heed my words. 2by2 will feed you all of the "if they aren't with me, they are against me" crap, and if someone says something bad about 2by2, they're haters or losers. This is not true. I for one, wouldn't be typing up all of this if I wasn't trying to help you guys out. Badmouthing the critics of 2by2 is basically brainwashing you to not think for yourself, and see both sides of it.

2by2 targets those who are right out of high school who have no idea of what to do in their lives, young people are easily impressionable. Reading all of these rep's emotional responses defending 2by2 made me laugh while sitting here on my computer. To think, I probably use to be JUST like that. So mindless, and fake.

Guess what guys? What percentage of those who joined 2by2 in California are still with the company? You wouldn't want to know. 2by2 IS a pyramid scheme that hides behind a bland product for legal protection that disguises their pyramid scheme. When I was a rep, the leaders had the gall to say that every business was a pyramid. While technically true, you don't have to buy in to work at McDonalds. And the greatest income chance isn't from luring your good friends into joining. There is a difference between a pyramid structure and a pyramid scheme.

2by2 works like this: Go to an area. Recruit all of the suckers they can find. Then once the fever dies down and they've sucked the money from the area's kids dry, move onto the next location where people don't know about their business practices.

THINK.

Next time you're in a 2by2 meeting...THINK. Just stop and THINK. What is all of the training about? Yes, recruitment. I remember trying to get more info on the online mall and ISP selling, no one would help me out.

Please, young men and women...do not join this "company." If you are part of it, do not bait your friends into joining. It's a joke. The only succesful people in 2by2 are crooks. I am not a sore loser of the system. I wish I had friends who weren't in 2by2 who could convince me to stop wasting my life in that company.

If you don't want to believe me, then I can live with that. I am not going to post my real name and address because I do not want a horde of the diehards contacting me. I suppose I'll take pleasure in you reading this a couple years down the road, saying to yourself: "s**t, I should have listened to that Anonymous guy, he was right, and I feel like a moron." The money you'll lose probably isn't going to bankrupt you (and don't get suckered into buying 7 spots, like one of my friends). If your friendships are starting to strain as a result of some MLM company, for the love of god...STOP!

Don't touch this company with a 100' pole. MLM = bad. Dennis Wong is probably laughing his a*s off, so is Duke Tubtin (if he's still with the company), crying on stage with his fake tears to lure you in deeper. I hope my writing here will save at least 1 potential 2by2 rep from wasting his/her time.

THINK, guys and gals, THINK.
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#14 Consumer Comment

2by2 reps, remember this response a few years down the road.

AUTHOR: Bo - (U.S.A.)

THINK.

I was one of the early members of 2by2 years ago when it started blowing up in the Bay Area around San Francisco and NorCal.

My friends and I all signed up, believed the hype, and spent lots of time and money visiting the training. After having a negative impact on our friendships, we all eventually quit before putting too much time and effort into it. I will admit, a couple of my friends made more money than they paid to join. Well, this doesn't include the cost of the gas money, training, and buying all of the fancy "show off" stuff to try to bait people into joining.

Current reps: heed my words. 2by2 will feed you all of the "if they aren't with me, they are against me" crap, and if someone says something bad about 2by2, they're haters or losers. This is not true. I for one, wouldn't be typing up all of this if I wasn't trying to help you guys out. Badmouthing the critics of 2by2 is basically brainwashing you to not think for yourself, and see both sides of it.

2by2 targets those who are right out of high school who have no idea of what to do in their lives, young people are easily impressionable. Reading all of these rep's emotional responses defending 2by2 made me laugh while sitting here on my computer. To think, I probably use to be JUST like that. So mindless, and fake.

Guess what guys? What percentage of those who joined 2by2 in California are still with the company? You wouldn't want to know. 2by2 IS a pyramid scheme that hides behind a bland product for legal protection that disguises their pyramid scheme. When I was a rep, the leaders had the gall to say that every business was a pyramid. While technically true, you don't have to buy in to work at McDonalds. And the greatest income chance isn't from luring your good friends into joining. There is a difference between a pyramid structure and a pyramid scheme.

2by2 works like this: Go to an area. Recruit all of the suckers they can find. Then once the fever dies down and they've sucked the money from the area's kids dry, move onto the next location where people don't know about their business practices.

THINK.

Next time you're in a 2by2 meeting...THINK. Just stop and THINK. What is all of the training about? Yes, recruitment. I remember trying to get more info on the online mall and ISP selling, no one would help me out.

Please, young men and women...do not join this "company." If you are part of it, do not bait your friends into joining. It's a joke. The only succesful people in 2by2 are crooks. I am not a sore loser of the system. I wish I had friends who weren't in 2by2 who could convince me to stop wasting my life in that company.

If you don't want to believe me, then I can live with that. I am not going to post my real name and address because I do not want a horde of the diehards contacting me. I suppose I'll take pleasure in you reading this a couple years down the road, saying to yourself: "s**t, I should have listened to that Anonymous guy, he was right, and I feel like a moron." The money you'll lose probably isn't going to bankrupt you (and don't get suckered into buying 7 spots, like one of my friends). If your friendships are starting to strain as a result of some MLM company, for the love of god...STOP!

Don't touch this company with a 100' pole. MLM = bad. Dennis Wong is probably laughing his a*s off, so is Duke Tubtin (if he's still with the company), crying on stage with his fake tears to lure you in deeper. I hope my writing here will save at least 1 potential 2by2 rep from wasting his/her time.

THINK, guys and gals, THINK.
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#15 UPDATE Employee

I joined Yor.com [2by2's new name] 3 days ago and...

AUTHOR: Antherus - (U.S.A.)

I wish I could give you my name, my address, and my personal cell phone number to all those in the same confused spot that I am. But to my own common sense, I resisted. So i'll just give you a general idea of who I am. I'm 18, fresh out of highschool, not currently attending college.

Here is my history with the company thus far, I got first introduced to this company (Yor.com) 9/26/06. On my first introductory day, my friend asked me and my friend to come out to see this "Chance of a lifetime." I was brought to this random starbucks in NYC and sat down with a couple yor.com reps and their manager: Ms. Sunlim Hem.

She proceeded to run the whole "opening" training on us and had myself somewhat open to the idea of network marketing. Then the next day I was forced by my friend to go to one of their wednesday trainings. Which I ended up paying 5$ for.

1 Thing I noticed after reading all of these reports is that, no matter what the company's name was changed to, it seems as though the ideals and saying and methods of persuasion remain solid. The talk of sea urchins and sharks i've already heard through the week of trainings ive been to. Controling the conversation is also another topic which was mentioned earlier that I was trained.

Todays date is 10/4/06, 3 days after I made my payment of $390. So far from what I can tell, they've given me a sense of priority, belonging, and importance in the world. However, I can not yet determine if these feelings are genuine or false. One that I can determine is that the methods of recruitment or "inviting" are EXTREMELY shady. Here are some of the things that I learned and have grown to question.

1. Invite over the phone so if neccessary, you can hangup and call a superior for a rebuttle.

2. Tell them as little as possible, and control the conversation by being able to come up with a logical response to every possible excuse

3. I had a house meeting at my own house where most of the guests were my friends. See'ing as they were my friends and I had gone through the same suspiscion a few days earlier, I wanted to give them some time to think about this. However, all the other reps seemed to think otherwise. No later then 5 minutes after the presentation did they whip out the applications and start using their "conversation control" techniques to try to get my friends money.

4. This made me think, if this is such the great business opportunity? why do you need the feeling of excitement of the presentation to sign this application? why not let the guests go home and think about it or do the research?

5. I went to my manager's house. She is currently living in a moderately large condo with 3-5 other people. Mr. Ly, Mr. Ngeauyang, (Not sure if spelled correctly)and Ms. Hem along with a couple others I have not met yet. If these people have the money, why share a house with 4 other people?
PS: I have d**n good suspiscion to think my manager doesn't have a car at all. She needs to be driven everywhere, and dropped off. Never have I seen her car once or have I seen her driving.

6. To be quite honest, I have no idea how much any of these supposed company's "big players" make. The one statement reguarding income I have heard is the president's. Which is said to be $86,000+ a month. I have never seen the president.

7. I have not attended a single training that goes over any techniques in selling the product. I have already been through their weekly schedule and have attended all the available trainings for this week.

8. Yor.com does not ask us to lie, but they might as well be. A line they say works well is:

"Hey, my manager mentioned to me that there were a few positions that needed to be filled. She asked me if I knew any hard working, dedicated, and trust worthy people that I knew and I thought of you."

Now, not to say that this person doesn't have these qualities, but I know for a fact that not everyone I called had these qualities. Their pitch is to lure you in with compliments to boost or get at their ego.

9. Another key idea they have us repeat over and over is "Edification." If you don't know what this means, edification is the boosting of someone's image by talking good about them. Essentially the opposite of gossiping. By doing this, the guest gains a false sense of respect for this speaker by listening to the same fairy tales which have been told for months after months. I guess this is supposed to even further enforce the false sense of money making and reality of this not-so-real company.

10. I was taught to: Say more by talking less, Don't allow them to ask questions, try avoiding getting into topics such as how much the pay is, amd what they'll be doing because the 100% honest answers to those questions are quite un-appealing.

11. Another interesting thing I've noticed is that they do a fairly decent job of covering their tracks. They claim that anyone against Yor.com and the ideals of network marketing have a "broke mentality" and that they will never get anywhere in life or business.

12. Another technique they teach you is: "The sense of urgency." They say to rush the process so that they don't really have time to sit there and think about it. Apparently that thinking process is "The replacement of positive energy with negative energy" according to my manager. Now I'm not sure how scientifically accurate this may be, but anyone see the question mark im raising here?

Because I only joined 3 days ago, my mind-set is not completely brainwashed and bias. I am open to both Yor.com and the basher's of Yor.com's opinions. However, the more I think about everything that I've experienced, the more I grow suspicious of this company and its ethics.

Hopefully, you will find this information helpful in reaching a 100% answer to whether this company is a genuine opportunity, or a well devised fraud.
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#16 UPDATE EX-employee responds

think

AUTHOR: Dave - (U.S.A.)

Think about it... U pay $390 to get started... now its time to do the math...

the service cost $22.89... out of that the rep gets 10%... in order to be certified u must have at least to customers... most reps are their own first two customers... isn't that some bullsh*t!!! so...

$22.89(cost) X 2(customers/yourself) X 10%= $4.58 a month... oh wow

While the company made $390 ur still $385.42 in the hole

Let's continue... Now in order to get a match pay (a one time payment of $60) u must have 2 people (friends/suckers) join the company each paying $390

390+390=780(which goes to company)

but wait... u still don't get ur 60 bucks until they get certified(get two customers) d**n now ur screwed until they get customers but when they do..

-$385.42+60=-$320.42 (ur still broke... aawww sh*t)

(780 - 60= 720 Company profit)

Oh wait a motivational meeting!!!... got to pay $10 to get in...

320.42+10=330.42 (your still in debt)

Now its time to sell the box (linksys) that makes the service work... The box cost the reps $55 each... u need two for your two customers

-330.42 + (-$55 X 2)= -$440.42(in the sh*t hole)

now u have to sell the box to ur customers (which is probably ur mom or an auntie from down south) for more than $55... lets say u sell it to them for $95

-440.42 + (95 X 2)= -250.42 (ur almost out)

but wait why would they buy it from u for $95 when radio shack sells the exact same box for less (roughly $70 - $40 rebate= $30) oh yea... did i mention that if u have VONAGE u get the box for free + free installation... think about it

oh yea don't forget cost of travel, your high cell phone bill from all your reps and potential customers calling all day, your crazy credit card bill, the cost of the very frequent motivational and recruiting meeting, buying knock off Armani suits, buying food, drinking starbucks, paying for big events and hotel meetings...

but most of all, the days, months, years wasted of your life on the biggest f**king SCAM ever!!!!

you alienate yourself from friends and family... all the company talks about is leverage, time to yourself... when in reality you work 24/7 always looking for a new drop a new downline.. always calling your old friends trying to make them join... you cant even have a decent f**king conversation without bringing up YOR bullsh*t...

its all bullsh*t..they promote dropping out of college to work for them... thats bullsh*t.. they make you worship the leaders like their god, always edifying "He's one of the top reps in the company... make sure you look him in the eye and shake his hand firmly..." ALL BULLSH*T!!!! don't fall for it

leave now, its only a cult!!!... they let Johnny Lee entertain you every sunday just to brainwash you... all the phony testimonials all the fake tears all the lies about rouge reps (crazy 7) and CRAZY MONEY!!!! ITS ALL BULLSH*T!!!... everything...

only the top leaders make money (and not alot)... dont give your money to Denis Wong... he's a former drug addict, bet u aint know that... There are reps 24-25 yrs old still living with their mothers begging for money to go to meetings... lol wat a f**king joke... its all crap...

Just listen... life isnt all about money... life is about what makes you happy... if money is the key for you, go get it... but if you have to use your family, lie to friends and others, and lie to YORself!!!, then is it really worth it???

Think about it...
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#17 UPDATE EX-employee responds

this is the truth behind bull****...I mean MML

AUTHOR: Dave - (U.S.A.)

multi-level marketing (a.k.a. network marketing & referral marketing)

The idea behind multi-level marketing (MLM) is simple. Imagine you have a product to sell. A common MLM product is some sort of panacea, such as a vitamin or mineral supplement. You could do what most businesses do: either sell it directly to consumers or find others who will buy your product from you and sell it to other people. MLM schemes require that you recruit people not only to buy and sell your product, but who will also recruit people who will not only buy and sell your product but also recruit people....ad infinitum. Only there never is an infinitum to move towards. This may seem unusual to traditional business people. Why, you might wonder would you recruit people to compete with you? For, isn't that what you are doing when you recruit people to sell the same products you are selling? MLM magic will convince you that it is reasonable to recruit competitors because they won't really be competitors since you will get a cut of their profits. This will take your mind off the fact that no matter how big your town or market, it is finite. The well will go dry soon enough. There will always be some distributors who will make money in an MLM scheme. The majority, however, must fail due to the intrinsic nature of all pyramid schemes.

Multi-level marketing is system of marketing which puts more emphasis upon the recruiting of distributors than on the selling of products. As such, it is intrinsically flawed. MLM is very attractive, however, because it sells hope and appears to be outside the mainstream of business as usual. It promises wealth and independence to all. Unfortunately, no matter what the product, MLM is doomed to produce more failures than successes. For every MLM distributor who makes a decent living or even a decent supplemental income, there are at least ten who do little more than buy products and promotional materials, costing them much more than they will ever earn as an MLM agent. The most successful MLM scheme is Amway. It has millions of distributors worldwide with sales in the billions. At the turn of the century, the average Amway distributor earned about $700 a year in sales, but spent about $1,000 a year on Amway products. Distributors also have other expenses related to the business, e.g., telephone, gas, motivational meetings, and publicity material (Amway.com; Klebniov 1991).

The reason MLM schemes cannot succeed is because MLM marketing is, in essence, a legal pyramid scheme. The basic idea is for a sales person to recruit more sales persons. This is very advantageous to those who own the company and supply the products, especially since the sales persons in MLMs are also customers. But it is puzzling why a sales person would think it is to his or her advantage to increase the number of competing sales persons.

This is not to say there is no benefit to MLM membership. You get certain tax write-offs. You get to buy products, some of which you will be happy with. You get to go to inspirational meetings, some of which will make you feel good. You may meet new friends and you may even make a few bucks. But more than likely you will end up alienating some family and friends. You will probably end up buying more stuff than you sell. And you will learn a lot about deceiving yourself and others. You won't be allowed to tell anyone how you are really doing, for example. You will always have to think positive, even if that means lying. You will have to tell anyone who asks that you are doing great, that business is wonderful, that you've never seen anything go so fast and bring you income so quickly, even if it isn't true.

The dangers of MLM schemes have been well articulated by others. If you are thinking of joining any MLM program, I advise you to first read Dean Van Druff's What's Wrong With Multi-Level Marketing or Robert Fitzpatrick's False Profits - Seeking Financial and Spiritual Deliverance in Multi-Level Marketing and Pyramid Schemes (Herald Press, 1997).

See also Amway, multi-level marketing harassment, and pyramid scheme
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#18 Consumer Comment

That was some of the most ridiculous crap I've ever heard

AUTHOR: Timothy - (U.S.A.)

Let's take that ridiculous diatribe step-by-step.

"For the record, Multi-Leveled Marketing aka Network Marketing is NOT?I repeat NOT a pyramid scheme, whatsoever."

Yes it is. The semantic trip that you take after that statement employs a definition of "pyramid scheme" that is only used by, you guessed it, pyramid schemes, for the purpose of convincing recruits that they are not entering a pyramid scheme.

But the FTC, along with the academic business community and society at large decided long ago that the term "pyramid scheme" encompasses the non-product based scheme, which is the one you describe, and the product based pyramid scheme, which is what you are advocating.

The reason that both are termed "pyramid schemes" is because they both suffer from the same mathematical infirmity that leads to huge gains for the few at the top and huge losses for the many at the bottom.

"Secondly, MLM (multi-leveled marketing), is a LEGITIMATE business."

That's debatable at best, and actually depends on the particulars of a given organization. Assuming that by "legitimate" you mean legal, most MLMs don't make the cut. Don't let the lack of prosecutions or successful lawsuits fool you. And hey, wasn't your company's predecessor found to be HIGHLY illegal?

The FTC has set forth a complicated definition that divides "legal pyramid schemes" from "illegal pyramid schemes." Basically, if the income of your company comes from "inside" more than 30% of the time, you are an illegal pyramid scheme. Can you honestly tell me that less than 70% of your company's income isn't coming from that ridiculous start-up fee? Can you verify that?

"It is based on providing people with REAL LEGITIMATE products that will convenience their lifestyles also at a fair price."

Partailly true. The products are generally legitimate, but rarely are at a "fair price." And of course they're not at a fair price: how else are you going to support commision structures in a distribution chain of unlimited degrees? This is all part of that mathematical fallacy that I mentioned above.

"People can get wealthy through networking marketing; their financial benefit is always the end result of their own dedication."

Partially true again. First, historically, less than 0.5% of MLM participants make even a minimum wage income. Second, of that 0.5%, FAR fewer are making over $50,000 per year. The population of people who "get wealthy" from MLMs is infinitessimal. And, if you consider continued and persevering exploitation to be "dedication," then the second part of that statement is right on the money.

"for a person involved in a pyramid to actually make money, someone else within the company has to lose money whereas in MLM, everyone can multiply their efforts, skills, talents, and results by helping other people be successful."

This IS the mathematical fallacy. Do you have ANY understading of the principle of exponential growth? I'm not going to try to explain it to you here, because there would be no point. Suffice it to say that, if you buy into your statement, you lack the basic understanding of economic principles required to spout off about what is and isn't a viable business plan.

"The leveled marketing industry has proven them-selves as an additional upcoming aspect in our economy and is the preferable way to do business in the United States and around the world."

WAY WRONG! MLM has been around for almost 60 years, ever since VanAndel and DeVos recognized that retail marketing wasn't going to work for their overpriced granola bars. And in that time, even as countless MLMs have sprouted up, and as millions of Americans have done their time in the various schemes, MLM businesses have captured less than 1% of commerce in the U.S.

"Third of all, network marketing is NOT about taking advantage of the people in your inner circle, it is about sponsoring people from your ?warm list? of prospects."

You say tomato, I say tomato (I guess that doesn't work in text). I guess I'm just not quite socially inept enough to think that, even though I HATE sales pitches, I should subject my friends and family to them as often as possible.

"Fourthly, MLM is not a get rich quick scheme"

You sure got that one right!

?understand that network marketing like any other small business, has to go through trial and error to set rules and regulations?

I imagine that you're saying this as a means to minimize the social damage and outright illegality that undisputedly stems from MLM. But, as I said before, this industry has been around for almost 60 years. How much more time do you guys need to figure out how to run your businesses in an ethical fashion?

?So new rules must be met, along with the name change, hey no one starts out perfect, right??

Again, how much time do you need, and how many name changes do you need? Even the ?big? MLMs stay pretty much the same over the years, even as they get a bad reputation. Amway changed to Quixtar, but it also made a huge change in its overall distribution method. PPL has always been PPL, A.L. Williams changed to Primerica many moons ago, but has been Primerica for a couple decades. Your company, on the other hand, has changed its name HOW many times over HOW many years WITHOUT changing really anything?

?There are courses for network marketing in some universities and colleges.?

That's a myth. Any business school will have courses in networking, and will have courses in marketing, but no reputable business school has a course in network marketing. MLMs used to tell a line about how the Harvard B School taught MLM. This was completely untrue, and the basis for the statement seemed to be that, in one of the textbooks, MLM was mentioned. But it was actually mentioned in a very negative light.

?If you cannot make back your 390$ that got your through the door, you are doing something seriously wrong.?

No, if your company has to charge its recruits $390 for the privilege of marketing their product, then your company is doing something seriously wrong.

If the product was marketable, and if there was a legitimate feeling that a good portion of recruits would be able to not only sell $390 worth of product, but sell enough product to make $390 in commissions, then why in the name of god would you charge people such an enormous entry fee?

I don't need concrete evidence to tell me what the only logical answer to that question is.

?I don't care what courses you have taken, but you must be really ignorant with the current economical changes, that you would not accept as actual current events.?

YOU'RE MARKETING DIAL-UP INTERNET SERVICE! And you're going to say that WE'RE ignorant because we can't see the viability in selling dinosaur grease?

?The ex-employees that has posted nonsensical rants about the company, probably has an unreliable upline or their mindset is not strong enough to be in this field to begin with.?

Even if I accept that statement as true, it speaks poorly for your company! First, why are there so many ?unreliable uplines?? Second, why are you bringing so many people in who aren't cut out for this type of business?

Oh wait, you get $390 out of them, that's why.

?Even if you say that their previous reputation by the names of 2by2 and IXP, was horrible and was even fined for 11million, who in the right mind would reconstruct the same company under a different alias if another 11million+ is on the line??

Scam artists don't stop scamming just because they get caught once or twice.

?There is a rule about telling people about your income nor can you even lie about it?

Dateline showed years ago that MLM participants have a HUGE tendency towards lying about their incomes, and every MLM has that rule. But that's really beside the point.

The issue is this: what does the average new recruit THINK he is going to make with your company, and what does the average new recruit ACTUALLY make over his tenure? Lying about your own income is only one way to deceive people into thinking that they will make more money than they are actually likely to.

?My final words, network marketing is serious business for serious people only.?

THEN WHY DO YOU ENGAGE IN INDISCRIMINATE, MASS RECRUITING?

?Now we all know that the typical complainers' mindset is not capable of network marketing business.?

No, the typical critical thinker's mindset is not capable of the network marketing business because they see it for the horseshit that it is.

?For the analytical people out there, I strongly suggest that you stop by a Barnes & Nobles, and pick up a book called ?Your First Year in Network Marketing.?

First, analytical people don't bother with publications that are designed to convince naive people to ignore reality.

Second, does that book talk about how over 99% of first-year MLM participants actually LOSE money? If it doesn't, then it's not preaching reality, and I have no time for it.

Primerica and PPL proponents always urge us to check out ?work from home? magazine and see how their company is touted. Then you open the thing up and there's a big f*ing AD for Primerica or PPL, or worse, the whole rag is nothing but an obvious recruiting tool.

Quixtar folks urge us to read Kiyosaki, then you do and you see that his whole book is not only ridiculous, but he says that Quixtar is the greatest business opportunity out there today, but fails to mention that the average income is far less than minimum wage.

?you should all be ashamed of yourselves.?

Why would I be ashamed of myself? I have a highly successful legal career and didn't have to scam anyone to get it.

?I have been in this company for about roughly 2 weeks already?

AAAAAH. Now I see what's going on. You're still fresh, and you're still in that phase where you're buying everything your upline tells you. Here's a challenge for you, buddy: come back in six months and tell us how things are going. I've extended that invitation to COUNTLESS MLMers, and NOT ONE has EVER taken me up on it, and neither will you.
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#19 UPDATE Employee

absolutely outrageous rants with no evidence cannot be ignored for the well-being of yor.com

AUTHOR: Jesus - (U.S.A.)

Okay, first things first, everyone has to come to a complete understanding of what network marketing is, and what it is not.

For the record, Multi-Leveled Marketing aka Network Marketing is NOTI repeat NOT a pyramid scheme, whatsoever. Pyramid scheme is a system similar to chain letters, spam, and internet pop-up ads, where individuals INVEST money based on the promise that other individuals will INVEST the same amount or more money in the system and somewhat, somehow will filtrate back to them in some miraculous way, along with the promised result of a wealthy happy ending.

A pyramid is strictly all about the money game and has no real footing in REAL commerce, usually there is no product involved or if there was, it was a product really loose and unreliable just to disguise the money ballgame in the background.

Secondly, MLM (multi-leveled marketing), is a LEGITIMATE business. It is based on providing people with REAL LEGITIMATE products that will convenience their lifestyles also at a fair price. People can get wealthy through networking marketing; their financial benefit is always the end result of their own dedication. Through their renowned efforts in building an organization that makes actual sales with REAL products and services.

Pyramids are ABSOLUTELY illegal and are based on taking advantage of other individuals, also for a person involved in a pyramid to actually make money, someone else within the company has to lose money whereas in MLM, everyone can multiply their efforts, skills, talents, and results by helping other people be successful. The leveled marketing industry has proven them-selves as an additional upcoming aspect in our economy and is the preferable way to do business in the United States and around the world.

Third of all, network marketing is NOT about taking advantage of the people in your inner circle, it is about sponsoring people from your warm list of prospects. Sharing information, products and services and opportunity with the people you know is the basic foundation of MLM. People nowadays are using sophisticated marketing techniques such as the internet, conferences calling other long-distance sponsoring ways to extend their services or networking across the globe.

Fourthly, MLM is not a get rich quick scheme, although some individuals do make quite a large sum of cash flow very quickly, many people would say they were lucky, and how they were at the right time and place. Please, do understand that network marketing is NOT about luck whatsoever, money is hard earned no matter how simple the method.

Success in network marketing is based on following some very basic principles.

Another thing I wanted to clarify, understand that network marketing like any other small business, has to go through trial and error to set rules and regulations, take the state laws for an example, someone has to cross the line, for laws to be passed against the current problem at hand. If an office has many cases of sexual harassment, a process has to be initiated to solve the problem, am I right or wrong? Whether, it is a company meeting or firing the next person that bends the rule, a course of action has to be taken.

In addition, starting a network marketing company is equivalent to have a small set amount of building blocks, the blocks being the founders. They will have to work in unison and harmony, recruiting more representatives and having more consumers in order to solidify the foundation. I know for a fact that everyone agrees with me when I say that there are A LOT of ignorant people out there, so keeping a large team together is NOT a simple task, and when people find loopholes to exploit, it becomes a major predicament, it can ruin a company's reputation, and when a sales company's reputation is in shambles, it is literally nearly impossible to redeem. Agreed? So new rules must be met, along with the name change, hey no one starts out perfect, right?

There are courses for network marketing in some universities and colleges.

Voice over IP was NOT started 20 years ago, get that straight, dial-up has not even introduced until the early 90s, and that's roughly 10 years ago. Cell phones were BARELY introduced during that period.

It is so easy to complain but why don't you question what you really know before you say what you don't even mean to say.

If you cannot make back your 390$ that got your through the door, you are doing something seriously wrong.

I don't care what courses you have taken, but you must be really ignorant with the current economical changes, that you would not accept as actual current events.

The ex-employees that has posted nonsensical rants about the company, probably has an unreliable upline or their mindset is not strong enough to be in this field to begin with.
Even if you say that their previous reputation by the names of 2by2 and IXP, was horrible and was even fined for 11million, who in the right mind would reconstruct the same company under a different alias if another 11million+ is on the line?

If you took the company regulations seriously. There is a rule about telling people about your income nor can you even lie about it, it results in misleading conflicts and possibly-eventual termination of your representative position.

My final words, network marketing is serious business for serious people only. It is a proven legitimate system where the design, creation and expense the corporate team has gone through and becomes a road map for your own success; just follow their simple, proven, and DUPLICABLE system that the current company provides.

Therefore, the script that Dave provided us all, is in fact a DUPLICABLE system that was proven, and used for a path to success, it is an example of a road that has been paved by pioneers way before Dave has even set foot on. The script provided by Network Company's is not a permanent word-for-word overly used script, you as an eCommerce representative, your duty to fulfill the basic mandatory steps to succeeding in the company.

Think of the scripts as training for any sales representative job out there, just that it is written instead of being taught through trial and error, even jobs in sales require you to make a certain amount of sales before you get fired or demoted to another section of the store.
In MLM you have to personally sponsor to sponsor others, you duplicate yourself onto others, if you see this as brainwashing, then its brainwashed for success, because as this process continues you create a compound growth that can lead to hundreds or even thousands of people coming into your business, you leverage your time by helping others be successful and earn an income from all their efforts. This is the basic foundation MLM works upon.

Now we all know that the typical complainers' mindset is not capable of network marketing business.

For the analytical people out there, I strongly suggest that you stop by a Barnes & Nobles, and pick up a book called Your First Year in Network Marketing, by Mark Yarnell & Rene Reid Yarnell the towers and juggernauts of MLM. Hey all this coming from a 19 year old, high school dropout, you should all be ashamed of yourselves. For the record, I have been in a lot of network marketing companies not for the money but the experiencesscam or not, do it just to do it, I have basically almost tried it all, and this is my conclusion of MLM.
I conclude that Yor is NOT, I repeat NOT a scam. I have been in this company for about roughly 2 weeks already, I am loving our product, it sells like hot cakes compared to other MLM company products, if you do everything CORRECTLY.
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#20 UPDATE Employee

yor.com is the biggest scam EVER!!!!!

AUTHOR: Dave - (U.S.A.)

I was reading all the info above and i just want to infrom ppl about a company named yor.com or yor.net which is owned by denis wong. this company ofeers ppl a chance to become e-commerce consultants selling VOIP. In order to join u m,ust pay $390... One of y best frined led me to one of the company meeting where they pressure u into paying to join the company... unfortunately i joined due to the pressure of my friend. heres some of the info from an email with a list of different scripts to get ppl to pay...

"Edification Game

- Greet: * Confidence / * Enthusiasm /* Excitement /* Conviction

- What are you doing right now?
Stop whatever you??re doing; I have something important to ask you

- I just got started working with a technology company, and I met this gentleman. His name is Mr. Ahmad Evaji, and he is a very successful businessman. I look up to him a lot because he??s been helping me with my training and everything. You??re my __________, and I know you are hard working and I know you can be doing a lot better.
He told me he is looking for sharp people because he wants to expand his company, and when he asked me if I knew anyone I thought of you first. I bet if you met up with him you could do some big things
- When you meet him he can tell you what he is looking for, but everyone he works with is very successful.
- He can help you get that_______ (Car, House, Vacation) a lot faster.
- But you gotta be serious if I set you up with this appointment, because he has no time to waste, he is very successful and very busy. You are my cousin so I am gonna hook you up, but if you don??t take this seriously, it will make me look bad. You want me to hook you up?
- Ok good, what's your schedule like for __________ (Tomorrow, Day)?
Double your lunch break, this is much more important than your __________ job, class, etc?K

- Skip that s**t!! / Call out!!
You only have one chance don??t mess it up. ok, let me talk to him and I will see if I can squeeze you into his schedule, Wait by the phone I??ll call you back in 10 minutes. (Call Upline)

-oh man. You??re SO lucky. I got you one of his first appointments. Mr. Evaji is going to be getting out of his business meeting with some clients at _________ (name of Coffee shop). I am going to squeeze you in for an appointment right after his business meeting. You??re appointment is going to be at_______ (Time) on _______ (Day).
You got a pen and paper? *Wait for them to get pen and paper*

This gentleman makes all the decisions in the East Coast, so you wanna make a good impression!
- Be there 15-30 minutes early. Make sure you bring all your ID??s?KJust bring everything to fill out the application. Make sure you bring a notebook and a pen. If you do well, you will find out at the end if get to work with us or not. Dress Up ?V SUIT AND TIE!

- Good luck. I??ll see you at_____. Lets meet up 15 minutes before your appointment so I can introduce you to him.

Pre-Appointment Preparation ?V Done in person

When you meet with Mr. Evaji he will probably ask about your goals. Be sure you know what to say. Stand up when he walks in because it shows respect and when you shake his hand, shake it with both hands. Look him in the eye and take notes. Show him you??re there. If he thinks that you are not focused he??ll say, ??Have a nice day.?? and leave.

*Tips*?? [Throw in some jitters [i.e. ??I??m nervous, I hope he likes you. Because if he does OH MAN?K.??]

If they ask you what kind of company, or what they would be doing say

He runs a technology company but don??t worry too much about that, he is going to tell you exactly what he is looking for when you meet with him."

this script is used to get ur friends to join. it is called dial for dollars

"Fast start Training

Step 1 ?V Decide

5 Goals/Reasons on why
1. Short term goal ?V 1 month ?V how much?
2. Midterm goal ?V 3 months
Laptop ?V Dell ?V 700m
3. Midterm Goal ?V 6 months
4. Longterm ?V 1 year
5. Ultimate goal ?V something that money cant buy, what's your passion?
Husband ?V family
Kids ?V 2
3x5 blue index card

Step 2 ?V List

Step 3 Invite
Keep it simple
Keep it short
Say less = get more
Don??t present

(REP)
Greet,

I just got started working with this technology company
My manager is ?K. Young, successful, make a lot of money, and he is looking for someone who wants to work
He asked me if I know anyone who wants to make money,
and I told him about you, he is right here with me and he wants to talk to you so hold on one second, his name is mr evaji

PASS THE PHONE TO AHMAD



I was calling you to see, who do you know that wants to make money?
(EXPERT)
Hey what's going on this is________. Great, how are you doing? Perfect, your friend _________ recently got started working with us today, we were talking about how we??re looking to expand our business and I was looking for an extra couple of people that??s looking to make some extra money. So when I asked __________, she told me about you. So I told her to give you a call and see what you??re up to so we can talk.

Are you currently working?
How long?......
Great?K

We are a technology company and we work with Voice Over IP but right now I??m looking for people to work in our marketing department, someone that has good people skills, good customer service skills.________ told me good things about you. So what's your schedule like to see when we can have you come in and find out more about the positions."

i have more info on the way...
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#21 Consumer Suggestion

Important Addition 2004-2006

AUTHOR: Joe - (U.S.A.)

This company now goes by Yor.com or Yor.net

They claim to be selling VoIP technology as 'the next big technology revolution. But VoIP has gone nowhere in 20 years. The Pyramid scheme they are really selling hasnt changed in a hundred. The thing is set up so that the money distributes upwards but you'll never make back the money you 'invest'. They avoid being ilegal by making each person sign accepting responsibility for their individual actions reflecting the company. They also 'mandate' that each customer/employee make a sale at least twice. There may be money to be made in this. Unlikely. but be careful.
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#22 UPDATE EX-employee responds

EX-REP from Mexico

AUTHOR: Jose Luis - (Mexico)

HI, I actually was one of the REPS for Mexico, I also took the seminars and learned what to answer and to say in every meeting. The "Breakfast" meetings where quite common here in Mexico. I did recovered my money by selling some accounts, BUT I never made more than 50% of what I originally invested, furthermore, the company just disappeared, the "owners" and heads just vanished and left us without support.
Please get out while you can, don't be like me that rebutted everything with the little speech from Mr. Wong, IT TRULY IS A SCAM, you just can't see it now, just like I did.
INVESTIGATE what happened in Mexico, ASK your REPS what do they know, just to see what do they tell you. Some of my friends now think I am also a scammer but my good friends know I was also a VICTIM.
PLEASE DONT LET THIS ADVICE FALL ON CLOSED EARS!.
THANKS.
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#23 Consumer Suggestion

Just did One meeting!!!! 390&& raised a big red flag.

AUTHOR: Xavier - (U.S.A.)

This guy approached me through myspace so i responded i figured what the heck maybe he saw something in me that is an asses ( apparently he saw a broke kid in an area that needs to be exploited). I did the first meeting and it yelled PYRAMID to me, needless to say i was still gonna try it out if it didnt cost nothing but time. Right after the meeting he calls my cell takes my info and asks me," so how do u plan to take care of this?" I was like " this? what happened ? " , he goes , " 390 do get your bussiness started." I ended up being honest with the guy , he was nice and were all proffessionals and i told him I am 19yrs old with student loans and i still owe tuition and to top it off im in the middle of a speeding ticket i need to take care of. He asked me to take a payday advance!!!!!. He continues to say there are Kids in South america who make 2.50 an hour and they raised this money without a problem. I tried to tell him why dont I just work and if i make money you guys just take it out the checks he sed they need it upfront so i told him ill have to sleep on it. emailed me to get back to him. I came to this site and read all the good info you guys posted and also read the law suit inside out( thank God for google, google knows everything) I wrote him a long email with all the facts that make his " bussiness a scam and failure and unethical AND i told him i will respect him as a proffesional so should he , I clearly asked him to never contact me. This is what he continues to send back to me keep in mind Im an immigrant from africa :::

Xavier,

Well, needless to say, you are in the land of opportunity but you are still broke. You obviously haven't paid attention too much. If we were not legal, we would not be approved to do business by the FTC, who stamped us for approval. If you really did your research, the reps that were misrepresenting the company our gone. I've been with the company since it went through the legal deals and it has not affected my business what so ever. Do some real research and check out what NETWORK MARKETING is. If you choose to stay ignorant, do yourself and our country a favor - Go back to your home land. Wow, I can say you are quite possibly the most ignorant (not stupid) person that has seen this business. If you want to really discuss, then you can email me or even call me.

So he attached an article that distinguishes network marketing from pyramids so what it was written in 2000 and its some Michael sheffield's opinion in some article. I would click on a porn popup before i pay attention to that article.

Dont , i repeat Dont get into these things. You will hurt your self and significant others. I am lucky i did just a little bit of research. It is unfortunate that he took my information but i am not threatened by any of them since they dont have the gutts to try and ripp me off face to face at my door step.

There is a culture among us that is quite large where people capitalize on ripping others off May it be your local car dealership , your cable service, internet , phone almost everywhere you go someone is ripping someone off . its bad enough to even be amonng churches.

Fact that he called me ignorant and told me to go back to my homeland Was already quite an insult but i chose not to directly respond to others but i will paste that response almost everywhere i see the word IXP! good luck ppl
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#24 Consumer Comment

Went to the meeting...

AUTHOR: T - (U.S.A.)

I went to the seminar/meeting recently and those reps were very enthused and energetic. The rep didn't really pressure me to just used reverse psychology on me. Something along the line of "The company will be a success even with or without you". And also mentions if it's not for me, tell my friends about it. I didn't have any intention of joining. They used social pressure and clever sales pitch to try to recruit people. Basically, saying you're a loser if you can't spare $390 for to invest in yourself. I read right thru their sales pitch and I did feel pressure but I persevered in the end. Throughout all the sales pitch mumble-jumble they did say this might not be for you. So there was no pressure for you to join. You create pressure on yourself to join and they assist by saying things like you will never be a success if you are a negative person who thinks too much or listen to opinions of others such as friends, family, etc. (cult-like)

In conclusion, the fact that the founders have a negative track record should be enough for anyone to steer clear of this company. I don't care how well you're doing with this company. The end result won't paint a pretty picture.
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#25 Consumer Comment

Dealt with them as well.

AUTHOR: Thomas - (U.S.A.)

I was working at a BP at the time to pay for my undergrad education in theoretical physics. A chap entered the station driving a rather expensive looking car. I commented to him a bit on it, and he invited me to a meeting that evening in a rather posh neighborhood. The house I arrived at was quite large, and most other people there were in small groups and were dressed nicely. I could see that they all had been asked to bring some of their friends with them. I was alone and still wearing my BP uniform. Some of the persons involved arrived in very nice cars, and as they were so visibly flaunting their wealth, I became suspicious. Not having dreams fro great riches myself, but having very different goals, this was not a temtation to me.

Sitting in a posh living room in front of a Television and other presentation materials, I watched the gentlemen work the crowd. I also observed that at least some of the more entusiastic members of the crowd were clearly plants to generate enthusiasim. At one point, one of the gentlemen directed a question at me, asking me if I thought some kind of deal to get a commercial web page with a domain name for $40 or some amount was a good deal. As skeptical as I was, I felt disinclined to disagree with him. Also, my only argument against him was based in that I suspected that the pages offered were premade, with only some vital details changed, and that with my own experience that I could design one cheaper myself. I did not suspect that many of the other attendees had such experience, and I personally did not know how to set up ecommerce, so I dissmissivley said, "yeah," knowing that the price he quoted was probably cheaper then hiring graphic designers and ecommerce consultants to create a web page. Had this happened to-day, years later, I would have argued with him.

One other person did argue one of his points, a woman who said that she was indeed happy with her life and did not desire what he was offering. I would have liked to speak with her later, as the only other sane attendee, but I did not get a chance to. At the end of the presentation, I took advantage of some of the free food, and after telling my recruiter different reasons why I did not want to pursue this business, exited.
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#26 UPDATE Employee

I have been working with IXP for 2 months

AUTHOR: Heather - (U.S.A.)

I have been working with ixp for 2 months now and i disagree very much with what some people have said. ixp is not a company offering a job to you they offer you a chance to work with them and yes it does cost money but for the money you pay you get a business website as well as a personal website for your own use and a package of products you can re-sell and earn more than your money back for it. when they give the presentation the first thing they talk about is the product, the newest one voice over ip, which my dad is trying out for me and likes very much. but back to the presentation they clearly explain that this is a very long term plan to make money and that it doesn't happen all at once.

i myself have already made my money back and then some. i have brought friends to see the company and decide if it is for them or not and we do not force them to join if they don't want to the closest thing to that we do is ask them what is holding them back and if we can help them with that if they would be interested. they even say in the presentation that this is not for everyone and it doesn't matter wheather you sign up or not they are just giving you the opportunity to decide for yourself. this is a network marketing company just like avon, amway, mary kay, and many others. i hope if people get a chance to see this company at a meeting they will make the decision for themselves wheather or not to give it a shot, don't just rely on the bad things people have to say.

if you don't try to make your money you won't that's why not everyone does make money. it's just like if someone decides to open a company to sell lets say apples, there are people out there that will buy the apples but if the company owner doesn't try to sell them to anyone no one will buy them. and he can't expand where he sells his apples if he doesn't get others to help him sell those apples. i hope that makes sense to everyone reading this. it may sound silly but it's true.
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#27 REBUTTAL Individual responds

2by2.net ruin my credit

AUTHOR: John - (U.S.A.)

I was in 2by2.net before they have changed over to their new name. I had spent over $8000.00 dollars (not including travel,gas,hotels,ect..)being part of 2by2, which promised me many things that did not happened. I was 19 at the time when i started. I was ready to scarafice everthing to have a better future, but i ended up it debt. I was the leader of the Sacrameto Team, guided by Son Nugyen and Micheal Mo of Team Big Mo, which was supervised by Lasazro and his brother (The top dawgs). While i made money for them, in return, i have recieved nothing, not even a thank you or a good job, but just another number that i had to break, like "you have to sign up 15 more people by the end of this week! One of the top rep said....
While Son wore a Hugo Boss suite with Versace tie and buckel on with a Movado watch on and a pair of Faragamo shoe on, i wore things from Payless Shoe store and suits from Goodwell. They have never metioned that i must invest in nice clothing and a nice car to entice more people. But surly, i was good at making them money.
While Lazaro and his brothers drove Lamborgini's and Son drove a Viper, I drove my Honda Civic, scraping up pennies to pump gas to the next metting or leadership trainning. I not saying that these guys are bad guys, but they probably got brain washed like i did.

I sacrafice so much for these people and this company that did nothing for me, but teach me a valuable lessons in MLM.

I have spent the last 3-4years rebuilding my credit and paying them off and i'm getting close, but please people, don't get caught in 2by2 sales tactice of, "What do you mean, you dont have the money? What if I say to you that i have a porche 911 outside right now and all i want was $420? will you find the money?" or "What do you mean you have no time? You mean you don't have time to make money? Don't fall for all those Sharks, Whales, Dolphins, Sea Urchins type of talks.

Don't fall for the sad stories of the speaker presenting the presentation or all the little stories of the apple and the apple trees, or the little guy who swam across the lake filled with alligators.

I was a team captain and a (bad) leader in sacramento because Did i not lead only myself into debt, I also lead many more people into debt. I have lost friends (many good friends). I have lost money (tons of money). I have lost 3 yrs of my life to 2by2.net

Listen to your intuition, and if it seems to good, it's probably is.
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#28 UPDATE EX-employee responds

IXP morals of getting employees

AUTHOR: Jack - (U.S.A.)

its funny how the IXP reps always look for young college students or drop outs to do their dirty work. first they say things that make you think they will make it big, but they never show you the facts. i asked one of the reps when they asked me to go to a meeting, "where do you get these facts?" the response i got was "haha, we get it off uhh... uhhh... the new york post". although i let the 2 "uhh"'s go... i was still kinda skeptic...

why would you get students that have NO experience... join ur company... UNLESS! you get the profit at the end? the thing is... they take 300$ from you when you join and says "its investing on yourself" and then make you go all the way to boston to hear the rich guys talk... and all i hear from my friends are "i know these people that make a bunch of money doing this bro" funny... you just know their names...

how do u know they make money? sure... i could just withdraw a few thousand dollars and flash it around... rent a hot car... get my ex g.f. to make me look good... why are people so gullable? and why are all these IXP reps so decieving? yeah, AOL made it big...

of course... they've been doing business for so long... what makes you think they're not making it big? and second... you're what... 3 years old now? and you have atleast 4 other companies to fight over? the odds of that is kinda small... but if ur making money... hey!

good for u... just dont cry like little babies when your company gets bankrupt or get sued AGAIN... for your careless REPS making faulse promises again... anyways if anyone thinks that IXP is the easy way out... LISTEN to what the reps are saying... and if ur friends are saying "i know these people that make a bunch of money doing this bro" ask them 3-4 questions

1 what is their name (to get them hyped up if they know their names)

2 how much do they make? (to see how stupid they feel when they dont even know how much they make and they think the people are making money)

3 how long have you known them?(get them a bit uncomfortable)
and last but not least... if they say - for a short time - for the third question...

4 what makes you think they're not lying to you?

o yeah, and as for whoever said that the world works like a pyramid scheme... do u know what the heck we're talking about? lol i dont think you do...

pyramid scheme is (to my understanding)
you recruit someone, the recruiter(whoever it is) gets paid... and supposetly the person who recruited the recruiter gets paid as well...

if you're telling me that higher ranked managers get paid more everytime someone joins the business... then you really gotta get ur head out of the gutter...

and also... you arent really making much money from the internet... you're making ur money from recruits... 300 a recruit... lets see... let's say the facts in the above forums are correct.... 45,000x300 = 13,500,000$ that's a lot of money... and i wonder how u guys spend all that money...

maybe renting those corvettes... ??? renting those lexus'??? or maybe those bmw's? haha... anyways... i dont know what u did with all that money... but you guys spend more then u need...
and make less then you require to sustain what you do...
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#29 Consumer Comment

Just Got Back From IXP Presentation

AUTHOR: Howard - (U.S.A.)

June 18, 2005

A freind from church invited us for "breakfast" this morning. My wife and I live in Sylmar, California. We met up this morning at church and headed to Pasadena for breakfast. I asked my friend details about the the breakfast and he told me that it was just a "little get together for friends".

As we arrived in Pasadena we went to the east side of the 210 freeway. We took a road that lead us to a gated closed hill side residential community.

The house was beautiful. The air quality was clean but not quite clear enough to view the ocean but I a clear day it appeared possible. Very nice property location. I would estimate a value of at least $2,000,000.

As soon as I entered the home and seen a computer set up with a projector presentation on I figured out that I was about to enter a sneak attack info commercial presentation. Since I was with a new friend I didn't leave. I just played it cool and listend to what this meeting was all about.

My wife's sister in-law had gotten involved with IXP in Mexico about 2 years ago so we both had and idea that it was a "internet" service company.

We didn't accept an invitation to do represent their company. They took our information and if we decide to do it we will pay them around a little of $300 to start.

I did notice one thing wrong. There was two minors at the meeting working for their "parents" with goals of joining the IXP ranks once they reach the age of 18. This is directly against a diclosure made by Jeffrey P. Morgan
President and CEO of IXP.Net found on IXP's web site on this day.

http://www.ixp.net/thaiboxer/makeMoney.aspx

The lead representative from the company was a young lady who had just come back from a "tour of duty" in Columbia and Mexico. During her presentation she openly mentioned that there were two minors working for their parents with the intentions of learning everything about the business.

IXP has its legal issues and policies at the link bbelow:

https://www.ixp.net/showmethemoney/legal.aspx

There is where the black and white truth can be found of this business. It is set up to operate just like any other business.

Their products and services don't appear to be set up to rip off anyone.

The only thing that I don't like about the presentation is that in order for me to work for them I have to pay them money to start up. I also don't like the idea that no pension plans, 401K savings plans, health insurance options ect...ect... are offered to its employees which are really contracted out and taxed according to IRS 1099 status requirements.

This company is also not a coporation and is not publicly traded.

I wonder if this company is only in it for short term goals.

If they are in it for the long haul they need to hire full time workers and offer benefits.

IMO they should seek out becoming publicly traded.

If they did this I would more readily put my trust and future with them.

I wonder if they own the legal rights and patents to the technology that they are using to promote the sales of their services and products or are paying somebody else to borrow them just to market them.

I like their services and product ideas but don't feel great about the future of their company.
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#30 Consumer Suggestion

IXP MAYBE A RIP BUT EH WHAT YOU GONNA DO

AUTHOR: Max - (U.S.A.)

Ixp is a rip-off if you ask me i went to a couple meetings and i will say this it sounds like utter garbage. The best part is yesterday at a meeting they played a "phone call" that was obviously pre-recorded... And to top it off they had background music and well placed echo effects on certain words.. I have yet to be brainwashed enough to pay them a dime but they do have some good training course id say go till you are kicked out. LOL thats my plan... Its like a free buisness course except for some of the days you pay ten bucks to get in... I feel bad though me being there probably helps them sucker others... oh well what you gonna do right even if they get busted 20 others would pop up so i say milk it for what its worth and move on... BUT DONT PAY 300 dollars to get a job sorry "to invest in the future lol" These guys are slick though they target young people like myself and say the most effective words to get us..

WHO AT THE AGE OF 18-25 doesnt feel somewhat lost and have a want for easy money.. and doesnt mind an empty generic compliment or two thrown in.. They are good but come on who wouldnt stop and give them a moment of their time with lines like "are workin hard for less than you want" Ya me and every other air breather whats your point..."well we have an easy way out for you..

An 'chance & risk' that can make you millions 'potentially'..." you got to be kidding me its like Wacco in 2005 come on people... Its not a scam its a cult lol. Oh well d**n good training though see ya in a meeting im the excited guy gettin kicked out..lol
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#31 UPDATE EX-employee responds

It's A Waste Of Time And Money

AUTHOR: Ask Me - (U.S.A.)

It's awful and a hellish nightmare and for the people who don't believe that the truth is that it's a scam than probably you haven't lost thousands of dollars yet. It's a waste of time and most of all a waste of money. There are better businessess out there and ixp.net or 2by2.net is not a good business. They should be arrested for this and be force to pay back all the people they scammed. And for the people who don't believe that what i'm saying is true. Stay in it and watch your bank account or life savings die away like mines did.
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#32 Consumer Comment

I'm staying away.

AUTHOR: Mike - (U.S.A.)

Just from reading the posts of the pro-IXP people, I'm staying miles away from this company.

Observation about pro-IXP people:

They are eliteist: saying that everyone complaining just 'did not have the drive to succeed' or 'or the strengh to do hard work'.

They have a great leader(s): Arriaza & Wong are just such amazing people that you are fortunate to have the opportunity to listen to their endless wisdom (at your expense?).

Being apart of IXP has them complete: lost and broke souls before, Arriaza - Wong - & IXP has given them a meaningful existance.

All that is missing is the altar and animal sacrifice.
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#33 UPDATE EX-employee responds

IXP is a freakin scam, just a college kid who wanted to make money

AUTHOR: Alexander - (U.S.A.)

I admit that i was a sucka and got pulled into this crappy company. I got recruited by an old friend in highschool (who was fairly a normal kid playing sports and hanging out) and once I met him for the recruit...he always looked professional and seem like he was making good money when he approached me. I fell into the trap of their false statistics and stupid, chessy hotel meetings.

I am an average college kid who wanted to make money...so it seemed like a good deal....but after noticing most of the team leaders working at cell phone kiosks and as painters...and walking in suits instead of driving a car...i started wondering "why the heck are they working if they claim to be so d**n successful with IXP???"....after doing some research after I quit doing ixp (cause of annoying meetings and phone calls)....i regret everything.....those fools should pay back every single person they scammed into this crappy company that goes nowhere....and also...that IXP recruiters in my area only wanted young people and mostly asian heritage....that pissed me off....THIS COMPANY IS JUST NOT RIGHT!!!! Lies and deception to take your money..
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#34 UPDATE Employee

IXP.NET: Shady, very shady indeed.

AUTHOR: Sophal - (U.S.A.)

Im an IXP.NET rep since spring 2004. I was on and off in the company for 7 months because I still wasn't sure about it. Im still a rep in winter 2005 until today that is. I am so glad I found this site so I won't be wasting anymore time, money, headaches with this "YOB". Facts don't lie, but it can be taken out of context. I been in the company, so this is from personal experience.

IXP.NET is new company that started in 2003,their about 1 1/2 years old. OK. I met a few people and some been in this company for 4 years! umm... how? Oh is it because they were in 2BY2.NET before and had to start a new company in different regions because their old company basically went down the toilet through their illegal practices? yeah that might be it.

If you seen their presentation, You should really take a closer look.
They show a set of stats: 100 college grads were studied for 40 years to see where they ended up financially.
1% = wealthy
4% = Financial Independent
*************** The 5% ***************
5% = Still working
36%= Dead
54%= Broke
************** The other 95% *********
-- What years was the study conducted? -- Where did they do it? -- Who did the study?
They didn't mention any of this.

They lure you in by say the you can make more money if you follow the system. OK so what is the system?

*Dish out $450(or $299.99 if you were special) to start your own business with a website, admin site and 2 annual high-speed codes.

*To get certified you need 4 monthly/annual customers or get 4 points(each service has a different weight).

*After your certified you need to get 2 people under you(1 on the left side and 1 on the right) and they need to get certified.

*If you do then you get a match pay($40 - one time payout)

*Your 2 people get 2 people each to sign up and get certified and you get more match pay.
*You keep doing this until you get 1024 people under you that are certified and 10% - 40% of resedjuial income goes to you, that's $2,000+ a month.(if everything goes perfect and no one quits)

*You can get more people but this is the system they show at their meetings.
A basic overview of the system.
They taught you how to RECRUIT people more than anything else. They Always tell me to get more reps, never to sell the product, but always get more reps. The product stinks and they know it.
If you have the choice between dial-up or dsl/cable, which would you chose?

Don't have the money to join? Sell your PS2,XBOX,TV,DVDs,Clothes,etc.. so you can make some money to buy the stuff you enjoy like PS2,XBOX,TV,DVDs,Clothes,etc.. Doesn't make any sense, does it.

They have shady tactics like :
*Always have control of the conversation.

*Do most of the talking on the phone so if you get stump you can say you have a other call and you'll call him/her back. But really their calling their managers to see how they can rebuttal.

*O the rebuttals. They have a list of questions asked and how to make you feel to stupid for asking that question. or they'll answer your question with another question.

*Fake it till you make it. I really hated this one. I have some nice accessories: a gold watch, necklace, rings, and my prize possession; My 2004 Subaru Impreza WRX, My sweetheart. They told me to say that was from working at IXP.NET. I can use that to my advantage to get more people. They tell people to have integraty and be truthful and lie at the same time?! That was just it for me.

They also said IXP.NET was one of the fastest growing company. They were number 16 in Entrepreneur magazine Top 100 list. -- Cool, no? NO! The magazine was printed in 2001 under the real company name Mall Ventures Inc. Its 2005 today and this was before IXP.NET when it was still 2BY2.NET.

Going international is a big thing with IXP.NET. "International is quick money." Sounds good until you realize you make money in the currency of whatever country your in. Are Pyramids schemes even regulated outside the U.S.

But some reps really like IXP.NET, but not for the money. Most of them says so them themselves, its about how they feel and how they better themselves. They get to hang around with all their friends. "When I did hardcore business people left, but when I made friends in the business, they stayed." - Mr. Dennis Wong. Even if it is a PPS(Product Pryamid Scheme), they'll stay.

Know this: IXP.NET is a MLM/Network Marketing company that borders on the line between a legit business and a pyramid scheme. Or a Product Pryamid Scheme since they do sell a product.

Some Links to think about:
http://www.pyramidschemealert.org/PSAMain/resources/tenlies.html
http://www.labbb.org/BBBWeb/Forms/Business/CompanyReportPage_Expository.aspx?CompanyID=13138698&hAKAID=14&hAddrID=11
http://forum.theispguide.com/ftopic1010-0-asc-0.html
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#35 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Greg Is In Denial...IXP is DYING

AUTHOR: John - (U.S.A.)

The major point in Mary's facts, which were from IXP itself, is that almost 70% of the people make nothing.

30% make a little over 700 dollars. That is chump change.

Making matters worse, there are only less than 5000 reps left worldwide.

In 2002, there were over 45,000.

That means in 3 years your company has lost over 40,000 people. Many of them your top people. Why would top people leave if they were making so much money?

When an MLM company suffers that big of attrition, it is a signal that the death knell is sounding. You cannot sustain such heavy losses. Especially when you are offering the exact same product we did over 3 years ago.

Even funnier, you offer it at a cheaper price, so that means your bonus pay is even less than it was in 2002.

Keep dreaming if it makes you happy...but at some point you have to wake up to realize that the only people who are making money are D Wong and about 10 people at the very top. The rest is all BS
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#36 UPDATE Employee

mary you don't understand ..facts are true b/c most of the people don't make all the money..it's been told..

AUTHOR: Greg - (U.S.A.)

sure those facts are true b/c most of the people don't make all the money..it's been told..if the person brought you to an appt. didn't tell you that..it's his fault.. failure is a preriquisite to success and most people can't take failure so they get started w/ us and stop. they expect this to be an easy ride with no rejection and failure but there will be..i can tell you that ..the average income of the representative that can take rejection and not fear failure is much higher..those people that expect instant success from this after a week only because they can't handle rejection and have an over-inflated ego..that's all good though..because new things are happening and if youre not involved that's all good..you won't be making ANY money with this but that's the decision you are aloud to make...
just know this..i'm a very detailed person..when i sat down to see this the first time..i saw those figured too and i asked about them..the reason those stats don't scare me anymore is because i've surpassed the average...b/c nobody in this business wants to be average..i know with the people i'm around..less then 68.68% of the people did not make money..and i can tell you that..i have seen my friends go from very little success in this business..to elevated levels of success and those friends of mine did nothing else but stuck with this company b/c in the end this company will end on top of all others..talk to you all soon just to inform you all..bye
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#37 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Here are the stats the PROVE everyone's argument

AUTHOR: Mary - (U.S.A.)

I got these stats off the ixp website when I did a mock sign up process online just to see if there was any different info given there then the people gave at the big hotel meeting where my friend tried to sign me up. This is a verbatim copy from one of the sign up pages, and it gives some really SCARY stats. Check it out.

3. THE NUMBER OF CURRENT IXP.NET DISTRIBUTORS WHO HAVE NOT RECEIVED ANY COMMISSIONS, BONUSES OR OVERRIDES IS 2,289 OR 69.65% OF SUCH DISTRIBUTORS.


WOW! That means there are less than 3300 reps TOTAL worldwide in IXP, and out of those almost 2300 have not made a single PENNY!

4. THE MEDIAN AMOUNT OF COMMISSIONS, BONUSES AND OVERRIDES RECEIVED BY ALL CURRENT DISTRIBUTORS IN IXP.NET IS $0.00. 69.65% OF ALL CURRENT DISTRIBUTORS HAVE RECEIVED, IN THE AGGREGATE, LESS THAN THIS AMOUNT. 30.35% OF ALL CURRENT DISTRIBUTORS HAVE RECEIVED, IN THE AGGREGATE, MORE THAN THIS AMOUNT.

Imagine if they told us this at the hotel meeting! "By the way, 70% of us make absolutely no money at this." Check out the next one to see what is worse!

5. THE AVERAGE AMOUNT OF COMMISSIONS, BONUSES AND OVERRIDES THAT HAVE BEEN RECEIVED BY ALL CURRENT IXP.NET DISTRIBUTORS IS $738.31.

Hahahahaha. The average TOTAL amount of commissions when someone actually does get paid is only a little over 700 bucks. Sounds like big money to me! And that is over the last fiscal quarter, not per week or month!

After I saw this, I asked my friend why they didnt tell us about it at the meeting and he said he didnt even know this. he thought people were making a lot more. I guess they don't, becuase these stats came right from any reps website if you act like you are going through the sign up process. Try it and you will see to.
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#38 UPDATE EX-employee responds

A Fair and Balanced Look

AUTHOR: Dr - (U.S.A.)

I was in ixp back when it was called 2by2. I remember being really excited about being part of the "internet goldrush" at the time. I got sold on the need for 7 websites so that I could make more money on the matchpay. My friend who I had known for 4 years at the time and worked with for 1 year was the one who got me involved.

The first 6 months I just didn't make much of an effort at it. Meanwhile, my friend had risen towards the top of the company, so I decided to jump in and make an effort and follow his lead.

I started going to Sunday leadership with Dennis Wong, and also met weekly with a group led by Dr Arriaza, my friend.

I also started talking to strangers all over, trying to prospect them. I had some home meetings here and there with my downline, and also did a lot of one on one meetings at places like Starbucks.

I was pretty active in it for about 6 months. The best thing that I got out of that time was a great education by, as Zig Ziglar says, "enrolling in automobile university."

I listened to all the tapes and books that they recommended. I even started looking for others that could teach me more about success. These books and tapes laid a great foundation for helping me become a success in my other business.

So for giving those recommendations, I have to thank D. Wong and Dr Arriaza. It also helped me with learning how to set goals and break them down to attain them, and also how to do sales.

However, I became disillusioned when I saw how much people changed and how many people did not practice what they preached. Integrity, character, and being impeccable with your word were professed on stage and in front of us or prospects, but behind the scenes there was some really cutthroat things going on.

To make things worse, people who I thought were doing so great were really struggling financially. And this was even people who were putting in tons more effort than I was. Don't get me wrong, I never worked really hard at it. But I saw people, like many of the previous posters talked about, put everything into 2by2, 7 days a week, and get very little in return.

I saw some people end up in the hospital from stress, ulcers. Others had relationships, both friend and loved ones, get destroyed. And worst of all, I saw someone whom I really respected change from being a caring and helpful person into a greedy and cold machine.

Maybe Dennis Wong would say that he fixed this person and others from being "too nice," as he used to say. I know I saw some people stop being as "nice," and I was on that path too.

So the bottom line is this: I have no hard feelings because at the end of my time in 2by2 I got some really great tax breaks, made some great friends on my team, and learned a lot about success.

The things that sadden me the most are the loss of the "nice" person I used to respect, and seeing how many people who got consumed and obsessed with the dreams and promises of an "internet goldrush" become angry, bitter, and disillusioned, and have had to go crawling back embarrased for all the harsh and judgmental things they said to their friends and family while they were hypnotized with Dennis' vision.

Bottom line: if you get involved, be really careful, don't burn your bridges, and don't allow yourself to get overhyped by what the top people promise. Take a look at their lives, their schedules, and see if it is right for you. And don't sacrifice your integrity for anything, not even money. Remember that it will take a lot more time and effort than what they tell you.
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#39 Consumer Comment

Same garbage being reposted and reposted

AUTHOR: Mattythis - (U.S.A.)

I was to once a 2by2.net member. I did the whole bit, get dressed up, by versace, buy ferragamo's. I did the whole fake it til you make it thing. I went to meeting after meeting, training after training. I was a team leader, in my few months I had team members in 3 states. Some of this was a good experience, I traveled, met tons of people, and learned how to dress nice. But I was in it to make money and I did none of that. For all you guys who say that I didn't try hard or I am a quitter, save it.

I learned better and realized what it was, I to can say that I was brainwashed by this so called company. To be certified you had to have 2 isp customers and I was but guess who those customer were, ME. I wasn't the only one like this, my bro did it, my downline did it,their downline did it and so on and so forth. Nobody wants isp, at least not in my city. People have dsl and cable and anybody with money will shell out 10 to 20 more dollers to get a faster connection. I bet Denis Wong and Jeff Morgan have them to. All in all i lost about 4000 dollers on a pyramid scheme. Everybody that was in it with me is not in it now. Everybody that I was supposed to be like has moved on to something else (duke, cliff, dave, frank, luis etc etc).

This company is nothing more than a rip off. What did the whole company emphisis??? get more people, get more people, get more people. GET 420! Invite, have a invite party, not once did anybody tell me to GO GET ISP'S OR GO GET PEOPLE TO BUY STUFF FROM THE ONLINE MALL! The way i was making money was by getting other people in and getting match pay on....... the bottom of my pyramid that they gave me.

Rule of thumb for this "Company" if you have been in for 2 weeks and haven't made money, cut your loses and move on because you will not make any. If you can make money with this "company" then great more power to you. Just be prepared to alienate friends, family, and just about everyone important in your life, all For the all mighty dollar.

To all the reps or should i say BUSINESS OWNERS (LOL) TAKE A LOOK IN THE MIRROR AND LOOK AT YOURSELVES AND YOUR MORALS AND PRINCIPLES AND TELL ME THAT YOU ARE REALLY BETTER OFF THAN YOU WERE BEFORE. Money isn't everything in this world and if it is to you than i fell sorry for you and your shallow mindedness.
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#40 UPDATE Employee

Well said ..It is true that all these responses from reps are "canned".

AUTHOR: John - (U.S.A.)

It is true that all these responses from reps are "canned". Dennis Wong spent alot of time teaching us how to respond to each one. None of us were taught to think, just repeat.

My best example of how this company just doesnt work for the average rep (and i worked my butt off speaking and recruiting like crazy) is that even the big guys arent really free.

The best example is charles gallegos, who at one time was partnered with dr luis arriaza as head of team think big. He was speaking and acting like a bigshot, and trashing having a job just like some of the other reps above.

Well, guess what, he is back at a job cuz even though he was at the top of one of the biggest parts of ixp he couldnt make it. And this was after driving around in a flashy corvette.

And if there is so much money being made by the top people, then why were Cliff and Dave and Duke and the other top guys so unhappy? Unhappy enough to leave their "huge residuals." think about it!
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#41 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Good response, I am sure that whoever ur team leader is will be very happy.

AUTHOR: Seong Cheol - (U.S.A.)

Good response Greg, I am sure that whoever ur team leader is will be very happy. I agree with some of what you say. If you look at things in a certain way, then the world is all a pyramid. However, the entire world is not a pyramid scheme, the last word being the key one. The problem is that pyramid schemes are illegal, whether or not they happen to be a good way of making money.

Your response is well thought out Greg, the only problem is that I have already heard it before. It was what we were taught when we were told how to respond to people who criticized the company.

Personally, and I don't mean any insult here, I have not seen an original arguement in favor of the company yet. Everything I have read here is a variation (and not a very good one) on what the company leaders tell you. If someone has an original arguement that does not originate from Dennis Wong or Michael Mo, then please post it, I would be very interested in reading it. But right now it is irritating because I could basically take the words out of your mouth.

A lot of businesses don't make you pay for business trips. I know my old man never pays to go on a business trip. In the military, they pay for us to travel, so long as it is on official business. Never have we been required to pay money to attend a training event, and neither do most professionals.

To those out there who are considering joining the company, I advise you not to rush into it. Research the company and it's predecessor (2by2.net). Check out the FTC law suit and check out the product that the company sells. I know I have had complaints from customers I signed on about the product.

To those who are already in the company, I sincerely hope for all of you that I am wrong. I have met many of you, and I liked all of you, and that doesn't change. I hope that I am wrong and that you all end up as successful as you think you will be.

One last thing Greg. Don't get so demeaning towards people who work in lower wage paying jobs. Remember that the only reason anyone in this country can pursue their dreams is because there are people like me (aka. poorly paid grunts) who are out there carrying rifles and machineguns. Don't think that you are better just because you have a lot of money, because if we all up and quit, all of the millionaires would end up speaking Chinese.
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#42 UPDATE Employee

UNDERSTAND YOUR OPINION..BUT IT'S STILL AN OPINION

AUTHOR: GREG - (U.S.A.)

ALL OF YOU PEOPLE CONFUSE ME..I SEE SEONG SAYING THAT HE DOESN'T WANT TO MAKE HIS FRIENDS LOSE MONEY..YOU'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG TO YOUR FRIENDS. IF YOUR FRIENDS GOT STARTED WITH THIS AND DIDN'T FOLLOW THROUGH..JUST LIKE ANY TRADITIONAL BUSINESS IF YOU DON'T WORK IT, YOU DON'T WIN.
QUITTER NEVER WIN
WINNERS NEVER QUIT

I AM 19 MYSELF AND AS SEONG WAS SAYING HE WAS AT THE "LOWEST YOU CAN GO". MY SITUATION IN LIFE ISN'T TOO BAD BUT I MADE A DECISION TO HAVE MORE..
ANOTHER MISCONSCEPTION IS THAT WE ARE A CUSTOMER ACQUISTION COMPANY..YOU BUILD THE CONSUMER BASE, YOU GET PAID..THERE IS NO REASON TO THINK THAT YOU ARE TAKING ANYONE'S MONEY B/C FIRST OF ALL IT'S NOT GOING DIRECTLY INTO YOUR POCKET THEY ARE GETTING A HUGE AMOUNT OF TOOLS THAT CAN HELP THEM.

NOW THERE IS ANOTHER POST SAYING, YOU END UP SPENDING ENDLESS MONEY FOR TRAINING AND BIG EVENTS, HEY IT'S BUSINESS, WHEN YOU GO ON A BUSINESS TRIP, DON'T YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR IT, OF COURSE.

DREW..YOU SAID THAT YOU BASICALLY RAN AWAY FROM PHONE CALLS. ALL YOU NEED TO PICKUP THE PHONE AND SAY LEAVE ME ALONE, I'M SURE THE PERSON YOU MET IS SOMEONE THAT WANTS TO HELP YOU MORE THAN HURT YOU. YOU DON'T NEED TO RUN AWAY, ALL IT TAKES IS ONE CALL TO ANSWER SOMEONES QUESTIONS.

AND YOU PEOPLE STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPTS OF PYRAMIDS..THEY'RE EVERYWHERE..AND THEY'RE AT YOUR JOB TOO IT'S NO SECRET. THE MANAGER THAT GIVES YOU THE INTERVIEW OR ORIENTATION AT A NEW JOB GOT THERE BEFORE YOU AND THEY ARE RECRUITING YOU TO WORK FOR THEM. NOW TO EVER GET TO THAT PERSON'S POSITION, YOU NEED TO EITHER KICK THEM OUT OF THE POSITION OR THEY QUIT THEMSELVES LIKE MANAGERS IN TODAYS WORLD ALWAYS DO, OR THEY MOVE UP AND SOMEONE UP THE CHAIN LEAVES.

TELL ME THAT'S NOT A PYRAMID, YOU START AT THE BOTTOM AND WORK YOUR WAY UP, SO YOURE WORKING FOR SOMEONE AND NOT WITH.

ALL THE COMPLAINTS I SEE WERE PEOPLE THAT COULDN'T MAKE A DECISION AFTER THEY GOT STARTED.

IF YOU DON'T GET STARTED W/ THE COMPANY, NO PROBLEM, YOU KNOW THAT EVENTUALLY WHEN WE ARE THE MOST KNOWN INTERNET SERVICE THAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE PAYING FOR SOMEONE ELSES FUTURE THAT DID FOLLOW THROUGH WITH A DECISION. DON'T THINK I'M BADGERING ANYONE, I'LL NEED SOMEONE TO WASH MY CAR, TAKE OUT THE DOG, AND TAKE OUT THE TRASH CANS LATER.

FOR THOSE WHO DIDN'T GET STARTED, I HOPE EVERYTHING YOU WANT COMES IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS COMES TRUE, BUT FROM WHAT I HAVE SEEN, THAT RARELY IF NOT NEVER HAPPENS.
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#43 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Be Careful I felt the same way about Dennis Wong

AUTHOR: Seong Cheol - (U.S.A.)

I have worked for IXP before. I enjoyed it a great deal, it was one of the most fun things I have done. I felt the same way about Dennis Wong and the others as the current employees do. I still respect them, they are very good at what they do. The only problem is that they run pyramid schemes for a living.

I am sure that many of the current employees will write me and my 'broke thinking' off. That is what we were trained to think. Go ahead, write me off. I am not going to make any big bucks in my life, and I will never take long cruises in the tropics. I am a 19 year old at the end of my string who's an enlisted man in the military at the E-2 level (basically as low as you go).

I just want to address a few things. First of all, IXP is almost certainly a pyramid scheme. I have talked to friends and family members who work in such diverse institutions as the FBI, DEA, and various police departments who all agree that, if IXP does not violate the letter of the law, it definitely violates the spirit of it.

Don't get me wrong. There is potential to make money in pyramid schemes. You can make a great deal, especially when you are opening a new area. However, you have to realize that many of the people you recruit will end up losing money. Whatever you do, do not recruit your friends. Matters of money are the best way to ruin relationships.

I could have done well with the company, everyone agreed with me. My supervisor and a lot of the ranking figures in the company said that I would. The bottom line is that I have a sense of honor that would not let me recruit people for a situation where they would, statistically speaking, lose money. If you can do that with a clear conscience, well, that is your business. As for me, I am happier in the military knowing that I am doing the right thing and serving my country than I would be sitting on a beach with my martini, knowing that I got there in part through a pyramid scheme.

Two last things. IXP is definitely brain washing. I have seen brainwashing first hand at Basic Training, etc. IXP uses a different form, but it has the same overall goal. It teaches people to respond quickly and without thinking too much.

The last thing is the most important in my opinion. Success can be measured in many different ways. Money is only one of them, there are many others out there, some of which will prove to be more fulfilling.
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#44 UPDATE EX-employee responds

my own story

AUTHOR: J.T - (U.S.A.)

I was with this company when they were 2by2.net. I worked with all the "leaders" Michael Mo, Son Nguyen. Went to my fair share of leadership meetings and "sensational saturdays". When the dust settles all this company is is a pyramid. You buy a spot, guess what it doesn't make it a pyramid b/c you have a product right? You have two customers to every spot? Most likely you coerced your family members to buy one or you pretty much have be your own customers. Different social security numbers for multiple spots? Does that sound legit? I lost way more money than I've gained with this scheme. And can point out hundreds of others. Stay away from this. You whind up spending more money countless repetitive meetings (10 bucks a pop) and sudden "events".

The same things supporters of this company is saying was exactly what I was taught word for word. Stop being such robots and start thinking to yourselves. Talking about "truth" look at your pocket books is it getting bigger? Its all a image, you keep edifying and edifying but do you know what you're even edifying? Nice shoes, ties, the old fake it til you make it. It's not there the money is at the top. Where Dennis Wong sits. Sometimes common sense really isn't common, 420 for a website... 14 bucks for a internet access, hmmm which one is more important to sell? You say you want to be successful, you don't need to pay 400 bucks for it, go talk to a real businessman and go to a libary. Its free and best thing about it you don't have to make your friends pay too.

Those of you in it get out while you can. If not you have some credit card bills ahead of you. This company is a scam. FTC said so, good enough for me. I challenge ANYONE to explain in detail why that happened.
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#45 Consumer Comment

The good, the bad, and the ugly.

AUTHOR: Drew - (U.S.A.)

The Good- The IXP Rep. who found me.
The Bad- The pyramid scheme presented.
The Ugly- IXP.net and it's misleading presentation.

Alright, I may be only 18 years old and a freshman in college, but I feel that I have been really really misled from my experience in the last week. Heres my story.

I work as a sales person and make very little money. But one day I met a customer who I talked to for a good twenty minutes and out of no where he was like "do you want to make more MONEY?" and "are you looking for another JOB?". I was like hell yea, I'm a teen and in college, of course more money is always good. A week or two passed and I recieved a phone call and he said to meet one of the managers at a local coffee shop and talk. Just to update you guys, I still have no idea why I'm getting dressed up for an interview, for a job that i never aplied to, for a job that when i asked what it is, my response was "it's a new international internet company that is trying to enter the American market".

Alright, so i go to the interview and the "manager" is constantly looking at me eye to eye and saying things like "do you want money?", "how important is money to you?", "where do you see yourself in a few years?", and finally "if you try hard with us you can be succesful. we have employees making 40k-60k, 80k-120k, and 125k+!".

I was blown away and excited, BUT i was still not told what the hell the product was!? wut is the actually business? i thought more about how i was going to sell a product than how much money i was going to make. all because i am used to actually working to make money and tryin to learn my product. this is was i think saved me and my 450$.

so i went to the invited meeting @ a hotel the following week and was greeted by a very energetic crowd, i mean these ppl were happy as hell and kept on smiling and greeting me. when the meeting started all i heard about for 3 hours was how to make money, wut do you want to do with your money, where do you see yourself in so many years, look how succesful these ppl are, and blah blah blah. i was d**n near about to pass out and knew some thing was up b/c i still DID NOT LEARN ABOUT THE DAMNED PRODUCT WHICH I THOUGHT MY NEW JOBBBBBBB WAS SUPOSED TO BE ABOUT SELLING! so finally, for like 20 minutes at the end of a 4 hour meeting they introduce the product, i write and take notes as fast as i can. and its over, not to menchion my "leader or manager" made me greet alll the directors and managers who were treated like god for some stupid reason.

they tried to make me pay 300$ on the spot, took my driver's license and SS number and were like so "if you cant pay now when can you?" and "you dont have a credit card?" and "you can borrow money" and i was like dude, im a kid and the money i make is strictly towards food, school, and bills. if im going to use 300$ that fast, i want to save up and htink about it.

it wasnt untill i stepped outside to warm up my car and leave @ 11pm that i started histarically laughing out loud to my self in my car. every thing started to make sense. every time i said "ohh so this is sort of like a PYRAMID type thing right?", my manager would get all upset and quickly respond back with other things. and every time i asked about the product they would give me a run around.

i have never replied to another phone call from my managers and the only thing that scares me is that they have all my info. all i can say is thank god i did sum online research on this company call IXP.net, who would have known they have such a history.

well to make a longer story short, i plan on following up very deeply on this and taking advantage of whats up.
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#46 UPDATE EX-employee responds

IXP does a great job...brainwashing

AUTHOR: Kristian - (U.S.A.)

What Tim says about "brainwashed" responses is true, and Rashan has to know that. We were all trained what to say in response to any questions presented us.

When the FTC suit came to light, and when the undercover TV report came out, Mr Wong spent 3 hours in Sunday leadership teaching us how to overcome and answer these charges.

Same thing when the lawsuits came out from his previous MLM company. He spent a whole session on those charges too.

Also, all the dial up and broadband figures, word for word, were taught to us by Dennis 2 years ago.

THe funny thing is that Dennis always also says you must be ahead of the wave of technology in order to that you can take advantage of it. Simultaneously, he clings to the past with dial up.

Same brainwashing, just in a different US state.

So Tim's #2 statement is FACT, not opinion.

Lastly, the real danger of this company is not the potential loss of a few hundred bucks at startup.

The real danger is how too many people get sucked in too these "pie in the sky" dreams and promises and destroy their lives and relationships in the process while chasing a dream that is promised but never comes.

Just look at the lives of Wong and Arriaza. Look at the money that those supposed top producers make, and find out if there are any real residuals. There are not.

Most of the money still comes from busting your butt to recruit new people. You get around the "pyramid scheme" by making the new recruit get 2 ISP customers. Usually the new rep pays for it themselves, or they pressure a close friend or family member to get it for a month. Then they end up paying for it themselves to keep the bonus money coming in off the recruiting.

Case in point,Leo Alba bought $2000 woht of ISP service to get promoted so he could get an increased bonus. That is a FACT. He did nOT have the customers. I was there when he told us that was what he did. Dennis and Arriaza knew about it.

Arriaza gets his ISP customers by giving them away to his chiropractic patients as a "bonus".

Rashan, and anyone else out there, these are the facts. There is no rhetoric here. I was a leader in the co, and just want to help people not suffer like many of the people I was in the company with did.

And by the way, I did make money with the company. About 10 grand. But I was a "top producer" and was speaking 4 nights per week. I was an illusion for people like Rashan.

One of the "top producers" above me, who used to sell about 100 to 300 websites per week, only made $25000 over a 2 year period.
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#47 UPDATE EX-employee responds

IXP does a great job...brainwashing

AUTHOR: Kristian - (U.S.A.)

What Tim says about "brainwashed" responses is true, and Rashan has to know that. We were all trained what to say in response to any questions presented us.

When the FTC suit came to light, and when the undercover TV report came out, Mr Wong spent 3 hours in Sunday leadership teaching us how to overcome and answer these charges.

Same thing when the lawsuits came out from his previous MLM company. He spent a whole session on those charges too.

Also, all the dial up and broadband figures, word for word, were taught to us by Dennis 2 years ago.

THe funny thing is that Dennis always also says you must be ahead of the wave of technology in order to that you can take advantage of it. Simultaneously, he clings to the past with dial up.

Same brainwashing, just in a different US state.

So Tim's #2 statement is FACT, not opinion.

Lastly, the real danger of this company is not the potential loss of a few hundred bucks at startup.

The real danger is how too many people get sucked in too these "pie in the sky" dreams and promises and destroy their lives and relationships in the process while chasing a dream that is promised but never comes.

Just look at the lives of Wong and Arriaza. Look at the money that those supposed top producers make, and find out if there are any real residuals. There are not.

Most of the money still comes from busting your butt to recruit new people. You get around the "pyramid scheme" by making the new recruit get 2 ISP customers. Usually the new rep pays for it themselves, or they pressure a close friend or family member to get it for a month. Then they end up paying for it themselves to keep the bonus money coming in off the recruiting.

Case in point,Leo Alba bought $2000 woht of ISP service to get promoted so he could get an increased bonus. That is a FACT. He did nOT have the customers. I was there when he told us that was what he did. Dennis and Arriaza knew about it.

Arriaza gets his ISP customers by giving them away to his chiropractic patients as a "bonus".

Rashan, and anyone else out there, these are the facts. There is no rhetoric here. I was a leader in the co, and just want to help people not suffer like many of the people I was in the company with did.

And by the way, I did make money with the company. About 10 grand. But I was a "top producer" and was speaking 4 nights per week. I was an illusion for people like Rashan.

One of the "top producers" above me, who used to sell about 100 to 300 websites per week, only made $25000 over a 2 year period.
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#48 UPDATE EX-employee responds

IXP does a great job...brainwashing

AUTHOR: Kristian - (U.S.A.)

What Tim says about "brainwashed" responses is true, and Rashan has to know that. We were all trained what to say in response to any questions presented us.

When the FTC suit came to light, and when the undercover TV report came out, Mr Wong spent 3 hours in Sunday leadership teaching us how to overcome and answer these charges.

Same thing when the lawsuits came out from his previous MLM company. He spent a whole session on those charges too.

Also, all the dial up and broadband figures, word for word, were taught to us by Dennis 2 years ago.

THe funny thing is that Dennis always also says you must be ahead of the wave of technology in order to that you can take advantage of it. Simultaneously, he clings to the past with dial up.

Same brainwashing, just in a different US state.

So Tim's #2 statement is FACT, not opinion.

Lastly, the real danger of this company is not the potential loss of a few hundred bucks at startup.

The real danger is how too many people get sucked in too these "pie in the sky" dreams and promises and destroy their lives and relationships in the process while chasing a dream that is promised but never comes.

Just look at the lives of Wong and Arriaza. Look at the money that those supposed top producers make, and find out if there are any real residuals. There are not.

Most of the money still comes from busting your butt to recruit new people. You get around the "pyramid scheme" by making the new recruit get 2 ISP customers. Usually the new rep pays for it themselves, or they pressure a close friend or family member to get it for a month. Then they end up paying for it themselves to keep the bonus money coming in off the recruiting.

Case in point,Leo Alba bought $2000 woht of ISP service to get promoted so he could get an increased bonus. That is a FACT. He did nOT have the customers. I was there when he told us that was what he did. Dennis and Arriaza knew about it.

Arriaza gets his ISP customers by giving them away to his chiropractic patients as a "bonus".

Rashan, and anyone else out there, these are the facts. There is no rhetoric here. I was a leader in the co, and just want to help people not suffer like many of the people I was in the company with did.

And by the way, I did make money with the company. About 10 grand. But I was a "top producer" and was speaking 4 nights per week. I was an illusion for people like Rashan.

One of the "top producers" above me, who used to sell about 100 to 300 websites per week, only made $25000 over a 2 year period.
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#49 UPDATE EX-employee responds

IXP does a great job...brainwashing

AUTHOR: Kristian - (U.S.A.)

What Tim says about "brainwashed" responses is true, and Rashan has to know that. We were all trained what to say in response to any questions presented us.

When the FTC suit came to light, and when the undercover TV report came out, Mr Wong spent 3 hours in Sunday leadership teaching us how to overcome and answer these charges.

Same thing when the lawsuits came out from his previous MLM company. He spent a whole session on those charges too.

Also, all the dial up and broadband figures, word for word, were taught to us by Dennis 2 years ago.

THe funny thing is that Dennis always also says you must be ahead of the wave of technology in order to that you can take advantage of it. Simultaneously, he clings to the past with dial up.

Same brainwashing, just in a different US state.

So Tim's #2 statement is FACT, not opinion.

Lastly, the real danger of this company is not the potential loss of a few hundred bucks at startup.

The real danger is how too many people get sucked in too these "pie in the sky" dreams and promises and destroy their lives and relationships in the process while chasing a dream that is promised but never comes.

Just look at the lives of Wong and Arriaza. Look at the money that those supposed top producers make, and find out if there are any real residuals. There are not.

Most of the money still comes from busting your butt to recruit new people. You get around the "pyramid scheme" by making the new recruit get 2 ISP customers. Usually the new rep pays for it themselves, or they pressure a close friend or family member to get it for a month. Then they end up paying for it themselves to keep the bonus money coming in off the recruiting.

Case in point,Leo Alba bought $2000 woht of ISP service to get promoted so he could get an increased bonus. That is a FACT. He did nOT have the customers. I was there when he told us that was what he did. Dennis and Arriaza knew about it.

Arriaza gets his ISP customers by giving them away to his chiropractic patients as a "bonus".

Rashan, and anyone else out there, these are the facts. There is no rhetoric here. I was a leader in the co, and just want to help people not suffer like many of the people I was in the company with did.

And by the way, I did make money with the company. About 10 grand. But I was a "top producer" and was speaking 4 nights per week. I was an illusion for people like Rashan.

One of the "top producers" above me, who used to sell about 100 to 300 websites per week, only made $25000 over a 2 year period.
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#50 UPDATE Employee

Oddly Enough...

AUTHOR: Rashan - (U.S.A.)

Tim, it's funny how no matter what is said you find a way to speak. The part that is even funnier is that every time you fall in another pothole. "AOL lost over 2 million customers in the past year." That is true, however NetZero's jumped by about 700,000 and MSN jumped by about 300,000, and Earthlink jumped by about 250,000. Do the math, that's approximately 1.25 million subscribers. There is no such thing as customer loyalty, so could it be possible that those customers switched to a cheaper carrier with similiar or better value. "The increase in NetZero's customers is not all that meaningful when their customer base was so small to start, and is still relatively minute." NetZero currently has more customers than most broadband companies that you can name. But you call 5.9 million customers, minute. Tim either you are the one leaving out valuable, relevant information, or you're speaking on what you think you know. Perhaps you are using your degree in Assumption. You know what happens when you do that. The fact that AOL's customer base alone excluding all other dial companies, out-subscribes the entire broadband industry, you still feel dial-up isn't where the money is.

Lastly..
#1-The average amount of money made in this company is more than the start-up costs.
#2-That is purely your opinion.
#3-The company was not found to be scam artists. Stop trying to manipulate words to support your opinion.

I'm so glad you know what libel is. Unfortunately for you, because everything you are stating is purely opinion and you have been, on several rebuttals, put on notice that what you are saying isn't fact. so therefore you are recklessly speaking and disregarding the facts.
#3-
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#51 Consumer Comment

The numbers game

AUTHOR: Tim - (U.S.A.)

Numbers don't lie (if they are accurate), but anybody familiar with basic statistics will tell you that a plain list of numbers means nothing without other relevant information. Such relevant information, in this case, would include the fact that AOL lost over 2 million customers in the past year. With that in mind, it matters not that AOL currently has a large customer base. What matters is that it used to be much larger.

Also, the increase in NetZero customers is not all that meaningful when their customer base was so small to start, and is still relatively minute. Maybe you heard about the recent stabbing incident at our local high school. That incident more than doubled the annual rate of stabbings here in Valparaiso. But that statistic means little when you consider that there were less than ten last year.

NetZero's customer base has not increased because of an overall increase in demand for dial-up service. Rather, their increase is attributable to a massive change in both the marketing of their product and the product itself.

In other words, your numbers, while not "lying," are not giving any relevant information. The fact remains that the days of dial-up internet service are numbered.

You see Rashan, you HOPE that I am lying, because relying on the notion that my statements are false allows you to easily attack them as such, thus avoiding the chore of self-perspective. However, the following facts remain:

1) Your company markets an unviable product, yet charges recruits hundreds of dollars for the privelege of a commissioned position within an unlimited and unprotected distribution network;

2) Rebuttals from other supporters reek of an orchestrated brainwashing;

3) Your company's promoters have been found by the FTC and at least one federal court of being egregious scam artists.

1+2+3=SCAM.

Now then, you have accused me of bordering on libel. FYI, libel requires more than saying negative things. For me to be culpable for libel I would have to either knowingly make false statements, or make false statements out of a reckless disregard for the truth. Such is not the case.

I have not disregarded the truth. I am trying to prevent YOU and other people who I would consider victims from disregarding the truth yourselves. People trapped in pyramid schemes will do everything they can to ignore the mountains of evidence that tell them they are wasting their time and money, because nobody wants to beliee that they have been scammed.

The undeniable TRUTH, however, is that the vast majority (some estimates say as much as 98%) of people who are recruited into pyramid schemes will ultimately LOSE MONEY. Which brings me back to a question I posed earlier: Since numbers are so important to you, can you give me some verifiable numbers (statistics, not anecdotes) that would suggest that people actually make money with the company you are defending?

By the way, my name is Tim, not Timmy. I have shown you the respect of not calling you "Rashy." Show some class and reciprocate. If you must resort to belittling me to defend you position, then your position isn't really worth defending, is it?
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#52 UPDATE EX-employee responds

FACTS AND HISTORY DO NOT LIE

AUTHOR: Jim - (U.S.A.)

For those people above who are preaching about how great the company is and how much it affected your life, we out here in California we once like them. We once denied all the accusations, and vehemently defended the integrity of MR WOng and Dr Arriaza and CLiff and Dave and all the other leaders.

That was until the facts were revealed.

Look at the FTC lawsuit. Read the details.

Mr Wong tries to blame a few rogue reps for these problems, but the tactics described in the lawsuit were taught by him.

My eyes were opened to how deceptive he is when I got into the upper leadership. There he taught us the tricks that he said the average rep could not handle and should never know.

He said in these meetings he was giving us the "meat", while he gave all the other reps the "
baby food" that made them feel good.

Mr Wong said his favorite thing was to "MIND f**k" people...straight from his mouth.

Dr Arriaza said the same thing.

They both said most people are WEAK and need to be LED, and that you could not let anything stand in your way of your success.

Also, another great quote of these 2 "great spiritual leaders" was that "YOU MUST HAVE YOUR SPIRITUAL HAND, AND YOUR BUSINESS HAND, AND ONE CANNOT KNOW WHAT THE OTHER IS DOING."

Make your own decision, but be forewarned. These men are very charming and convincing, but over time, you too will see what we saw here in California. FALSE PROMISES. Watch out!
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#53 UPDATE Employee

THIS IS A GOOD ONE!!!!!!!

AUTHOR: J.P. - (U.S.A.)

I come from a family where living right, and doing good was never really taught. In quite A few instances, I was praised for semi wrong doing.
I wouldn't get in trouble for using drugs, profanity, getting kicked out of school ect. Why? because i was doing these things w/ parents. Parents with no Love*

Than here comes a company called IXP.NET Which is filled with so many people who truly care. Something i never really got growing up. If you really understood, or even was able to comprehend what we are doing. There would be no ripoff forum.
IXP.NET has changed my entire life. For the better may i ad. Theres no other company that gives you so much personal attention. I have worked in many fields. Yet I've been held back from the people that surrounded me. In IXP Iam surrounded with vibrant proffesional very caring people. It's given me vision. It's led me to lead a positive, fun-filled, profesional, prosperous life!

Coming from my background drugs were money. Having clientel when your 14 for things you shouldnt even know about. You can see how there could possibly be legal, and life threating experiences coming from that. I was headed down the wrong path. IXP saved me from all my wrong doings. Almost overnight i made a 360 degree spin for the better. Thanx to caring people in this company. Never have i heard of any promises of large income nor have we ever ripped anyone off *POTENTIAL* income? OF COURSE how much depends on you.

Everything we do here at IXP.NET is completly legal. Call FTC head quarters and ask. The only reason i even took time out to write to this forum was to tell anyone who is dissin the company because their lack of vision or lack of talent for marketing a very useful product. That its not even about the money.Its about helping people. I was helped so i will help for the rest of my life.Through this company Its also about saving lives. I know IXP has saved mine.
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#54 UPDATE Employee

What sense do you make? Netzero has been increasing their customer base

AUTHOR: Rashan - (U.S.A.)

AOL........ approx...24.7 million customers
MSN ........approx...8.7 million customers
NetZero ....approx...5.9 million customers
Earthlink...approx...5.2 million customers

And you said dial is dead and plummeting???

Netzero has been increasing their customer base every few months and their bread and butter is dial up. Just the same, AOL's, MSN's and Earthlink's bread and butter is dial up. So now you are saying that these four multi-billion dollar companies don't see something that little Timmy from Valparaiso, Indiana sees. Get real. Speak the truth. The numbers don't lie. People do. Stop lying Timmy.

You are bordering on libel.
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#55 UPDATE Employee

What sense do you make? Netzero has been increasing their customer base

AUTHOR: Rashan - (U.S.A.)

AOL........ approx...24.7 million customers
MSN ........approx...8.7 million customers
NetZero ....approx...5.9 million customers
Earthlink...approx...5.2 million customers

And you said dial is dead and plummeting???

Netzero has been increasing their customer base every few months and their bread and butter is dial up. Just the same, AOL's, MSN's and Earthlink's bread and butter is dial up. So now you are saying that these four multi-billion dollar companies don't see something that little Timmy from Valparaiso, Indiana sees. Get real. Speak the truth. The numbers don't lie. People do. Stop lying Timmy.

You are bordering on libel.
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#56 UPDATE Employee

What sense do you make? Netzero has been increasing their customer base

AUTHOR: Rashan - (U.S.A.)

AOL........ approx...24.7 million customers
MSN ........approx...8.7 million customers
NetZero ....approx...5.9 million customers
Earthlink...approx...5.2 million customers

And you said dial is dead and plummeting???

Netzero has been increasing their customer base every few months and their bread and butter is dial up. Just the same, AOL's, MSN's and Earthlink's bread and butter is dial up. So now you are saying that these four multi-billion dollar companies don't see something that little Timmy from Valparaiso, Indiana sees. Get real. Speak the truth. The numbers don't lie. People do. Stop lying Timmy.

You are bordering on libel.
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#57 UPDATE Employee

What sense do you make? Netzero has been increasing their customer base

AUTHOR: Rashan - (U.S.A.)

AOL........ approx...24.7 million customers
MSN ........approx...8.7 million customers
NetZero ....approx...5.9 million customers
Earthlink...approx...5.2 million customers

And you said dial is dead and plummeting???

Netzero has been increasing their customer base every few months and their bread and butter is dial up. Just the same, AOL's, MSN's and Earthlink's bread and butter is dial up. So now you are saying that these four multi-billion dollar companies don't see something that little Timmy from Valparaiso, Indiana sees. Get real. Speak the truth. The numbers don't lie. People do. Stop lying Timmy.

You are bordering on libel.
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#58 Consumer Comment

Buggy whips and engine cranks - you're marketing an obsolete product!

AUTHOR: Tim - (U.S.A.)

Actaully, Rashan, broadband use HAS exceeded dial up use. In fact, over the past few years, broadband use has steadily increased at about 47% per year while dial-up use is decreasing at 13% per year. Overall internet use has levelled off. If current trends continue, by 2006 broadband use will represent such a massive share of internet access that dial up services will probably be rendered non-existent. This information comes from the Nielsen ratings company.

I would definitely question somebody who is still trying to convince you that marketing dial up internet access is a viable business strategy. You do have foreign markets to tap in to yet, but you run in to such a massive host of legal and business problems in doing so that most reputable American companies won't even bother. If your long term business strategy is rooted in providing dial up service to third world countries, good luck with that. I wouldn't touch that market with a ten foot pole.

Furthermore, your market analysis misses the point. It doesn't matter that AOL failed to get into the broadband market, and it doesn't matter that the broadband market is pretty much monopolized by cable providers. What matters is that your company is marketing an antiquated product with virtually no new consumers and a negative retention rate. Have you ever seen the movie "Other People's Money?" It's a terrible movie, but contains a point germane to this discussion: do you really want to be a company whose sole hope for survival is to grab up the shreds of a dying industry?

Marketing dial up internet service today is like marketing record players today. Some people still want it for whatever reason, but definitely not enough people to support an unlimited distribution network, which is the very essence of multi-level-marketing. Add to that the fact that you have to compete with companies that people have actually heard of, like AOL. I can not see how, by any stretch of the imagination, yours is a viable business plan.

But it wouldn't be perpetuated if its promoters weren't making money, right? How do you make enough money to cover massive FTC fines when you are in the business of marketing a dying product? I guess one good way would be to convince people that they can make thousands selling your wonderful product if only they hand over $450 for the privelege. Then, since they are "independent contractors" and have no recourse when they don't even recoup their losses, you'll be sipping margaritas in Cancun.

If you want real integrity, don't assume that the only people critical of your company are failed recruits. There is enough negative info out there for me to go on for days about pyramid schemes and your company in particular without ever having been a victim. Nope, I was never involved with this outfit, nor any other pyramid scheme. I'm smart enough to recognize when I'm being taken for a ride, and skeptical enough of people who promise me the world to stay far away from them.

And, might I ask about what I was being dishonest? Was I being dishonest about the FTC injunction? The massive fine? The FTC rarely prosecutes pyramid schemes, but they went after your gurus with guns blazing. What does that tell you?

Open your eyes. In the land of the pyramids you're either one of the few at the top making it rich, or one of the millions at the bottom wasting your time and money. If you're at the top, you think the company is great because it puts the champagne and caviar on your table, and you'll do everything you can to perpetuate your lifestyle. If you're one of those at the bottom, you HOPE the company is great and will avert your eyes to the mountain of evidence that says otherwise.

Yes, look at the numbers. After all, numbers don't lie, people do. The numbers say that over 98% percent of people involved in pyramid schemes that require an initial investment will lose money. That comes from the FTC, and has been verified by numerous other sources. What do you have? Two or three guys making new recruits believe that their former lives were terrible and that nobody cares about them, all so they can take $450 from people who can't afford it in the first place, so that those poor saps will have the privelege of trying to sell buggy whips and anvils to a populous with no more buggies and no more blacksmiths.

Pyramid schemes are presumptively a scam. Since numbers are so important to you, can you give me some verifiable numbers (statistics, not anecdotes) that would suggest that people actually make money with the company you are defending? Remember, if you give me false information, you are personally liable under the FTC Act!
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#59 UPDATE Employee

Quick Fact ..AOL just sent about 8 million customers a letter stating that they can no longer offer them broadband.

AUTHOR: Rashan - (U.S.A.)

Timmy... Check the news. AOL just sent about 8 million customers a letter stating that they can no longer offer them broadband. The reason being, it was costing them too much money. They were losing massive amounts of money. Secondly, most broadband companies have gone out of business or been bought out by other conglomerate companies who had the income to sustain it. I mean Comcast has more broadband users than anyone and Microsoft owns part of the company. Microsoft also has the #2 internet service as far as customer base in the country. Microsoft has been at the top of the charts for a while now as one of the companies with the largest amount of cashflow. Lastly, broadband never surpassed dial up. Stop trying to speak on something you know nothing about. If the company didn't work for you, so be it. Move on, if you add every person on here who has had something negative to say you would still add up to less than .01%. The numbers have to mean something. The numbers don't lie. People do. Admit that you couldn't take rejection or too much ego to move up. No one will be upset, in fact we'd appreciate some integrity more than dishonesty.
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#60 UPDATE Employee

Quick Fact ..AOL just sent about 8 million customers a letter stating that they can no longer offer them broadband.

AUTHOR: Rashan - (U.S.A.)

Timmy... Check the news. AOL just sent about 8 million customers a letter stating that they can no longer offer them broadband. The reason being, it was costing them too much money. They were losing massive amounts of money. Secondly, most broadband companies have gone out of business or been bought out by other conglomerate companies who had the income to sustain it. I mean Comcast has more broadband users than anyone and Microsoft owns part of the company. Microsoft also has the #2 internet service as far as customer base in the country. Microsoft has been at the top of the charts for a while now as one of the companies with the largest amount of cashflow. Lastly, broadband never surpassed dial up. Stop trying to speak on something you know nothing about. If the company didn't work for you, so be it. Move on, if you add every person on here who has had something negative to say you would still add up to less than .01%. The numbers have to mean something. The numbers don't lie. People do. Admit that you couldn't take rejection or too much ego to move up. No one will be upset, in fact we'd appreciate some integrity more than dishonesty.
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#61 UPDATE Employee

Quick Fact ..AOL just sent about 8 million customers a letter stating that they can no longer offer them broadband.

AUTHOR: Rashan - (U.S.A.)

Timmy... Check the news. AOL just sent about 8 million customers a letter stating that they can no longer offer them broadband. The reason being, it was costing them too much money. They were losing massive amounts of money. Secondly, most broadband companies have gone out of business or been bought out by other conglomerate companies who had the income to sustain it. I mean Comcast has more broadband users than anyone and Microsoft owns part of the company. Microsoft also has the #2 internet service as far as customer base in the country. Microsoft has been at the top of the charts for a while now as one of the companies with the largest amount of cashflow. Lastly, broadband never surpassed dial up. Stop trying to speak on something you know nothing about. If the company didn't work for you, so be it. Move on, if you add every person on here who has had something negative to say you would still add up to less than .01%. The numbers have to mean something. The numbers don't lie. People do. Admit that you couldn't take rejection or too much ego to move up. No one will be upset, in fact we'd appreciate some integrity more than dishonesty.
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#62 UPDATE Employee

Quick Fact ..AOL just sent about 8 million customers a letter stating that they can no longer offer them broadband.

AUTHOR: Rashan - (U.S.A.)

Timmy... Check the news. AOL just sent about 8 million customers a letter stating that they can no longer offer them broadband. The reason being, it was costing them too much money. They were losing massive amounts of money. Secondly, most broadband companies have gone out of business or been bought out by other conglomerate companies who had the income to sustain it. I mean Comcast has more broadband users than anyone and Microsoft owns part of the company. Microsoft also has the #2 internet service as far as customer base in the country. Microsoft has been at the top of the charts for a while now as one of the companies with the largest amount of cashflow. Lastly, broadband never surpassed dial up. Stop trying to speak on something you know nothing about. If the company didn't work for you, so be it. Move on, if you add every person on here who has had something negative to say you would still add up to less than .01%. The numbers have to mean something. The numbers don't lie. People do. Admit that you couldn't take rejection or too much ego to move up. No one will be upset, in fact we'd appreciate some integrity more than dishonesty.
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#63 Consumer Comment

Looks like brainwashing to me

AUTHOR: Tim - (U.S.A.)

From an above rebuttal:

"You guys are wrong, especially when making acuusations that Dr. Luis Arriaza and Mr. Dennis Wong are brainwashing us."

I've never met anyone who said "yup, I'm brainwashed, and I couldn't be happier" so I would naturally expect some opposition to an assertion that you are brainwashed. Let me point a few things out, however.

Nobody ever brainwashed somebody by being a jerk. Brainwashing is most easily accomplished by taking peoples' existing insecurities, magnifying them, showing them how those insecurities are ruining their lives, and "showing them a better way." Then, to solidify this effort, you make your target think that their former lives were garbage because nobody cared about them, but you will. With this in mind, let's look at a few comments from previous rebuttals:

"IXP.NET ... allowed me to see the truth about myself ... I have to accomplish any type of success I need to better myself on the interior ... IXP has also given me the privilege of being around positive ... individuals who keep me motivated to become better person that I am"

" before i was in this industry i was very uncomfortable with myself but i have been able to be more in touch with myself by being around people that truely and honestly care about me."

" He took a shy,self conscious, under acheiver and turned me around to a life i never knew was possible... He gave me a life with postivity, people who really care about me, abundace and happiness."

" I have been able to dispose of my "Not Much" attitude, which so many of us attain in life, because I have learned by thinking that way, you will achieve just that, not much!"

" This company has taken me from a person scared of rejection, scared to fail, and full of self-doubt to an individual equipped with all the tools necessary to conquer any endeavor."

I could post about 20 more of these, but I'll refrain. Sure, this all looks great. Who could
fault these guys for bettering peoples' lives? Well, when you consider the context in which this "betterment" takes place, things sure start looking pretty shady. Here are a few facts for reference:

IXP is in the business of remarketing dial-up internet service, and (at least used to) claim vast income potentials through the sales of this service. As late as 2003 IXP was telling potential recruits that dial-up service would maintain its position as the service of choice. In fact, broadband use had already surpassed dial-up use in 2003. IXP also pointed to the continued success of AOL when, in fact, AOL sustained massive losses in 2002, and even more in 2003.

The FTC sought and procured an injunction barring Mall Ventures, DBA 2by2 and IXP, from:

Operating prohibited pyramid schemes; Misrepresenting potential incomes; Imposing (EXTREMELY) unreasonable refund conditions on consumers; THREATENING CONSUMERS WHO COMPLAIN TO GOVERNMENT AGENCIES; and other acts and ommissions.

Defenders have stated that the FTC is happy with IXP, but is merely keeping a close eye on them. This injunction is not ancient history, folks. It was filed in January of this year. Leveling a multi-million dollar fine and a massive injunction doesn't equate with a "close eye" in my book.

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt. You have all shelled out hundreds of dollars and I would wager dollars-to-donuts that very few of you have even recouped your losses.

One of the defenders stated above: "AmWay is a MLM company that has grossed Billions every year ... if you have any questions about them, then you really do not understand MLM and will never understand IXP.NET." Sure, Amway (now Quixtar) rakes in billions. The average agent, however, makes $110/month (Quixtar's own number, not mine) and usually spends more than that on motivational materials.

If you have been lead to beleive that what you are doing is great because it is the same thing Amway does, then you have definitely been brainwashed. I know everything I need to know about pyramid schemes, and Amway in particular, which is more than enough to keep me far away from them.

You could all probably do a little better without being so open-minded. Open minds are ripe for the scamming. The skeptical are rarely conned.

Life is not an AA meeting. Psychobabble and warm feelings are little compensation for wasted time and money.
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#64 UPDATE Employee

My side. this negative stuff about IXP and it just drives me crazy.

AUTHOR: Paul - (U.S.A.)

Okay. I see all of this negative stuff about IXP and it just drives me crazy.

When I saw this company - there were no huge incomes promised. Nothing promised. There was an opportunity to make money - and it was clear that it took massive effort and committment to make it. No one said I would make XYZ amount of money, no one said they were making alot of money. By no means were there false promises.

Now I will tell you, I have been in IXP for over a year. I haven't made very much money - well under a thousand dollars. But what I realize is that this is because of my own doing. All the people around me have given me infinite support -and still do today. I do not make them money, and I probably never will. They do not care. I am not here to make money anymore - I am here with my friends to learn about how to become better.

Dennis Wong has taught me to respect myself - and to become less shy. I think those things cannot be traded in for anything.

Dennis Wong will be the first person to say that 2by2 made mistakes. I know, because I have asked him. There were people in 2by2 that lied, that cheated. They were terminated. Dennis Wong will also be the first person to admit that he has made mistakes in his past.

But when Dennis Wong spends all day trying to help the representatives grow be reading John Maxwell, or whatever type of book, it becomes quite clear where his intentions lie. When he spends an hour of leadership helping one person with a personal problem, its clear. When some of my co-workers in IXP, NON-producers, spend 45 minutes on the phone with Mr. Wong because they need personal help, I cant help but say that I love this company, and I love this movement.

For those of you that cant seem to grasp any of this, it doesnt matter. But I can tell you after all of my time here - that being open-minded is a virtue. Think for yourself. Its not about the money here - maybe it was back in the day, but not anymore. If it were, I'd be gone. If you want to make it, you certainly can. There will be people for you everyday to help.

Thanks for reading.
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#65 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Great Brainwashing, and lots of BS ..Dennis Wong and Jeff Morgan have had lawsuits against them for deceptive marketing practices in their previous MLM companies, and also in 2by2/IXP.

AUTHOR: Samuel - (U.S.A.)

Anyone looking into this company should research the FACTS behind it and not the rhetoric.

FACT- Dennis Wong and Jeff Morgan have had lawsuits against them for deceptive marketing practices in their previous MLM companies, and also in 2by2/IXP.

FACT- They LOST the lawsuit brought against IXP for an 11 million dollar verdict, which they were given the opportunity to make payments on.

FACT- IXP had to change their name from 2by2.net due to horrible word of mouth, death threats against WONG and ARRIAZA, and terrible undercover news pieces that aired on FOX 11 news. As a result, the company also had to start recruiting heavily out of state as well.

FACT- Dr ARRIAZA has been under investigation for insurance fraud and attorney kickbacks.

FACT- Hector FLORES was arrested and put in jail for LOAN FRAUD.

FACT- IXP is NOT the only company that offers what they claim to offer. There are dozens of IDENTICAL companies out there offering an online mall with an affiliate program and isp service.

FACT- The leaders LIE about their income. They EXAGERRATE the figures and UNDERREPORT how much effort it takes to even make the paltry sums they are bringing home.

DO your own research and you will see the truth. Go to bbb.com and look up 2by2.net in orange ca. Check out the FTC report.

BUt most of all, be really careful if you get involved with them. They make a lot of really grat promises, and keep you really pumped up, but over time you eventually learn the truth.
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#66 UPDATE Employee

WOW I can not believe there is so much negativity in this world

AUTHOR: Mariluz - (U.S.A.)

Why is it that there are so many people bashing my incredible company? I guess the IXP mirror showed you something you really did not want to see.

I love IXP.net so much and I thank God for have given me the opportunity to hear about it. There is nothing better than working with people you truly love and care for and that's exactly what you get with IXP.

Thanks to Mr. Dennis Wong and Dr. Luis Ariazza my life has done a complete 180 for the better. I was once a very shy girl that any and everyone could take advantage of, but not anymore. I owe that in large part to these two gentlemen, Mr. Wong and Dr. Ariazza. Because of them I am now more aware of the person I am and can now become the person I want to be. They have allowed me to break out of my shyness and showed me that anything I want is attainable.

In order to be successful in this company you really have to first look inside you and change all the bad in you before anything. I can see from some of the things that were said about my wonderful company that many of you were not able to get rid of the negativity in your lives. Maybe that's why you are so angry and have said so many nasty things about IXP.

However, I'm not writing to convince anyone that IXP is for them. I just wanted to write about what this company, along with the guidance of Mr. Dennis Wong and Dr. Luis Ariazza, has done for me.

I would never trade the feeling I get when I'm around the wonderful individuals of IXP.net for anything.

Like my fellow business partner Mr. Washington said I guess the negative people are just going to have to "wait and see the commercial" to know that IXP was never a scam.
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#67 UPDATE Employee

WOW I can not believe there is so much negativity in this world

AUTHOR: Mariluz - (U.S.A.)

Why is it that there are so many people bashing my incredible company? I guess the IXP mirror showed you something you really did not want to see.

I love IXP.net so much and I thank God for have given me the opportunity to hear about it. There is nothing better than working with people you truly love and care for and that's exactly what you get with IXP.

Thanks to Mr. Dennis Wong and Dr. Luis Ariazza my life has done a complete 180 for the better. I was once a very shy girl that any and everyone could take advantage of, but not anymore. I owe that in large part to these two gentlemen, Mr. Wong and Dr. Ariazza. Because of them I am now more aware of the person I am and can now become the person I want to be. They have allowed me to break out of my shyness and showed me that anything I want is attainable.

In order to be successful in this company you really have to first look inside you and change all the bad in you before anything. I can see from some of the things that were said about my wonderful company that many of you were not able to get rid of the negativity in your lives. Maybe that's why you are so angry and have said so many nasty things about IXP.

However, I'm not writing to convince anyone that IXP is for them. I just wanted to write about what this company, along with the guidance of Mr. Dennis Wong and Dr. Luis Ariazza, has done for me.

I would never trade the feeling I get when I'm around the wonderful individuals of IXP.net for anything.

Like my fellow business partner Mr. Washington said I guess the negative people are just going to have to "wait and see the commercial" to know that IXP was never a scam.
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#68 UPDATE Employee

WOW I can not believe there is so much negativity in this world

AUTHOR: Mariluz - (U.S.A.)

Why is it that there are so many people bashing my incredible company? I guess the IXP mirror showed you something you really did not want to see.

I love IXP.net so much and I thank God for have given me the opportunity to hear about it. There is nothing better than working with people you truly love and care for and that's exactly what you get with IXP.

Thanks to Mr. Dennis Wong and Dr. Luis Ariazza my life has done a complete 180 for the better. I was once a very shy girl that any and everyone could take advantage of, but not anymore. I owe that in large part to these two gentlemen, Mr. Wong and Dr. Ariazza. Because of them I am now more aware of the person I am and can now become the person I want to be. They have allowed me to break out of my shyness and showed me that anything I want is attainable.

In order to be successful in this company you really have to first look inside you and change all the bad in you before anything. I can see from some of the things that were said about my wonderful company that many of you were not able to get rid of the negativity in your lives. Maybe that's why you are so angry and have said so many nasty things about IXP.

However, I'm not writing to convince anyone that IXP is for them. I just wanted to write about what this company, along with the guidance of Mr. Dennis Wong and Dr. Luis Ariazza, has done for me.

I would never trade the feeling I get when I'm around the wonderful individuals of IXP.net for anything.

Like my fellow business partner Mr. Washington said I guess the negative people are just going to have to "wait and see the commercial" to know that IXP was never a scam.
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#69 UPDATE Employee

WOW I can not believe there is so much negativity in this world

AUTHOR: Mariluz - (U.S.A.)

Why is it that there are so many people bashing my incredible company? I guess the IXP mirror showed you something you really did not want to see.

I love IXP.net so much and I thank God for have given me the opportunity to hear about it. There is nothing better than working with people you truly love and care for and that's exactly what you get with IXP.

Thanks to Mr. Dennis Wong and Dr. Luis Ariazza my life has done a complete 180 for the better. I was once a very shy girl that any and everyone could take advantage of, but not anymore. I owe that in large part to these two gentlemen, Mr. Wong and Dr. Ariazza. Because of them I am now more aware of the person I am and can now become the person I want to be. They have allowed me to break out of my shyness and showed me that anything I want is attainable.

In order to be successful in this company you really have to first look inside you and change all the bad in you before anything. I can see from some of the things that were said about my wonderful company that many of you were not able to get rid of the negativity in your lives. Maybe that's why you are so angry and have said so many nasty things about IXP.

However, I'm not writing to convince anyone that IXP is for them. I just wanted to write about what this company, along with the guidance of Mr. Dennis Wong and Dr. Luis Ariazza, has done for me.

I would never trade the feeling I get when I'm around the wonderful individuals of IXP.net for anything.

Like my fellow business partner Mr. Washington said I guess the negative people are just going to have to "wait and see the commercial" to know that IXP was never a scam.
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#70 UPDATE Employee

The Ultimate Change: Financially and Emotionally

AUTHOR: Caron - (U.S.A.)

Ixp.net has been one of the most rewarding experiences in my life to date. I have been following Mr. Wong and Dr. Arriaza for 2 years but been with IXP for 1 year. This company has taken me from a person scared of rejection, scared to fail, and full of self-doubt to an individual equipped with all the tools necessary to conquer any endeavor. This company has truly given me the opportunity to learn who I am and in turn this has allowed me to make some money and help others do the same. If it wasn't for Mr. Wong and IXP, I don't know where I would be right now. I would probably be lost and in a constant struggle between what I wanted people to see me as and who I really am on the inside. There is no other company that will teach you how to make money, learn about you, learn about people and relationships, learn how to be a better person, and teach others to do the same like this company can. If you don't know, now you know.

Wait for the commercial!!!!
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#71 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Look At Arriaza's and Wong's History

AUTHOR: Juan - (U.S.A.)

Despite the praise of whoever wrote the few above pieces, at look at these 2 men's past will let you draw some informed conclusions on this company.

First of all, Mr Dennis Wong and Jeff Morgan had several lawsuits filed against them when they were in their telecommunications MLM. They then bolted and started 2by2.

Now, 2by2 gets several lawsuits, one by the FTC which they LOSE, and they change their company name.

Nice track record.

Now look at Dr Arriaza. There is even a rippff report on him for his other business, which is a chiropractic office.

In that business, he is under investigation for insurance fraud and attorney kickbacks.

He likes to stand on stage on profess that his integrity is what has made him a success. In reality, it is his ability to ILLEGALLY PAY ATTORNEYS FOR AUTO AND WORK INJURY PATIENTS.

So again, no matter how charming someone is when you walk into the room, the real person is represented by their history and their acts.

After all, most people who knew evil men like Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, and the like all say the same thing when they hear about what they have done," He was just the most charming person, so nice, he would never have hurt a fly."

Sociopaths are very often the most convincing and charming people around. Listen to your gut and don't get fooled!
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#72 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Look At Arriaza's and Wong's History

AUTHOR: Juan - (U.S.A.)

Despite the praise of whoever wrote the few above pieces, at look at these 2 men's past will let you draw some informed conclusions on this company.

First of all, Mr Dennis Wong and Jeff Morgan had several lawsuits filed against them when they were in their telecommunications MLM. They then bolted and started 2by2.

Now, 2by2 gets several lawsuits, one by the FTC which they LOSE, and they change their company name.

Nice track record.

Now look at Dr Arriaza. There is even a rippff report on him for his other business, which is a chiropractic office.

In that business, he is under investigation for insurance fraud and attorney kickbacks.

He likes to stand on stage on profess that his integrity is what has made him a success. In reality, it is his ability to ILLEGALLY PAY ATTORNEYS FOR AUTO AND WORK INJURY PATIENTS.

So again, no matter how charming someone is when you walk into the room, the real person is represented by their history and their acts.

After all, most people who knew evil men like Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, and the like all say the same thing when they hear about what they have done," He was just the most charming person, so nice, he would never have hurt a fly."

Sociopaths are very often the most convincing and charming people around. Listen to your gut and don't get fooled!
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#73 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Look At Arriaza's and Wong's History

AUTHOR: Juan - (U.S.A.)

Despite the praise of whoever wrote the few above pieces, at look at these 2 men's past will let you draw some informed conclusions on this company.

First of all, Mr Dennis Wong and Jeff Morgan had several lawsuits filed against them when they were in their telecommunications MLM. They then bolted and started 2by2.

Now, 2by2 gets several lawsuits, one by the FTC which they LOSE, and they change their company name.

Nice track record.

Now look at Dr Arriaza. There is even a rippff report on him for his other business, which is a chiropractic office.

In that business, he is under investigation for insurance fraud and attorney kickbacks.

He likes to stand on stage on profess that his integrity is what has made him a success. In reality, it is his ability to ILLEGALLY PAY ATTORNEYS FOR AUTO AND WORK INJURY PATIENTS.

So again, no matter how charming someone is when you walk into the room, the real person is represented by their history and their acts.

After all, most people who knew evil men like Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, and the like all say the same thing when they hear about what they have done," He was just the most charming person, so nice, he would never have hurt a fly."

Sociopaths are very often the most convincing and charming people around. Listen to your gut and don't get fooled!
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#74 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Same guy writing all these support reports

AUTHOR: Sammy - (U.S.A.)

Just for those of you who actually may haveread the above few responses, it is important for you to know that they all are coming from the same guy.

This person used to go to the 2by2sucks forum and use the same tactics to bury important information that people need to know to prevent getting ripped off.

He used the same arguments, word for word, but we knew it was the same guy because even though he tried to change his name, he was too dumb to know that his IP address showed up each time.

One key way to also know this is the same ignorant individual is that he is the only idiot stupid enough to think that "NO ONE" is just one word.

He always spells it "NOONE". That's not even a word.

Anyway, the rhetoric he spouts is verbatim what WOng and Arriaza teach them.

The proof is in their track record, which he will soon learn. The important thing is that people out there be forewarned about the truth from people who have been burned and not have these facts buried by blind followers who dont believe FACTS.
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#75 UPDATE Employee

I Love IXP

AUTHOR: Ryan - (U.S.A.)

I am so glad the opportunity permitted itself for me to get involved in the greatest company on the face of the earth, IXP.net. Throughout my experience in IXP.net, and my interaction with Mr. Dennis Wong and Dr. Luis Arriaza, I have been able to become a better person, with better relationships, and the greatest positive outlook on life. I have been able to achieve a sense of happiness I never thought possible.

Not only is IXP.net helping me to become a better person, but the income potential is outstanding if you WORK HARD AND PAY ATTENTION. I have been able to help so many people while helping myself through this company.

I have no doubt that while I stay in close quarters with extraordinary gentlemen like Mr. Dennis Wong and Dr. Luis Arriaza as well as the many positive representatives of IXP.net, we will be able to completely change the world for the better.

I have been able to dispose of my "Not Much" attitude, which so many of us attain in life, because I have learned by thinking that way, you will achieve just that, not much!

What I love about IXP.net is that there are only two ways to fail in the business, to never get started, and to start and quit. Quitters never win. Quitters usually have a negative attitude. People don't get what they wish for, they get what they deserve. Success in this business will come when you put in the effort required. You can't blame your lack of success on anyone but yourself. That's another thing I learned through IXP.net, responsibility.

When anything, anyone, any business is successful, there is always going to be people that try to squash that success, through any means necessary. I am not worried about this website or the future of IXP.net. This just goes to show that we are doing something right

I LOVE IXP!!!
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#76 UPDATE Employee

The mark of an educated mind is to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

AUTHOR: Rashan - (U.S.A.)

Unlike most people, I won't write a response bashing anything that has been said. My experience with IXP.net has been one that I wouldn't trade for all the money in the world.

I am a college graduate, with degrees from two different schools. I graduated from Nassau Community College, one of the top rated JUCO schools in the nation, and on the Dean's List from St. John's University. To some people that means a lot because there are millions of people from the ages 18 and up striving for the same pieces of paper I have. What came as a huge surprise to me is that I've learned more about the real marketplace in 9 months of being involved in IXP.net than in my 4 years of college education.

The minute you walk into the room with Dr. Luis Ariazza or Mr. Dennis Wong being present you immediately feel that you are in the right place. Dr. Ariazza and Mr. Dennis Wong are two people who answer all questions without thought, from their gut. They take the time to speak to each and every person who wishes to speak to them. They have nutured some incredible leaders who are doing some tremendously positive things in the world today.

Mr. Dennis Wong is the realest person I've ever met. He is no holds barred, uncut, absolute, TRUTH. He makes it very clear to everyone who is interested in getting involved in IXP.net that it is not a get rich quick scheme and it requires serious and genuine effort to get to the level he is at. He tells the truth so often, at times he tells us things that we don't even need to know. Mr. Dennis Wong does not promise anyone riches.

Through the experiences of Mr. Dennis Wong a lot of young people are learning to avoid a lot of negativity and incorrect paths. Mr. Dennis Wong is a complete open book, and he has influenced the leaders in the company, especially Dr. Luis Ariazza, to be as he is, honest.

"The things that will destroy us are politics without principle, pleasure without conscience, wealth without work, knowledge without character, business without morality, science without humanity, and worship without sacrifice."

-Ghandi

Now perhaps a few peoples' feelings might have gotten hurt, because the truth hurts. It hurts to know that you're lazy if you aren't honest with yourself. It hurts enough to create a website to complain about it. We all know that misery loves company, so it really isn't hard to get a bunch a people to complain. All they need is an ear. If you joined IXP.net, and say you've made it to everything, every training, you've always listened to your upline and the leaders, and you didn't try to make your own system, and it still didn't work then you have an arguement. But I know you didn't because throughout my 9 months in IXP.net, everytime I veered off the system, the brickwall was waiting. As soon as I got back on, the wall disappears. Complainers continue to complain while life moves on by.

We at IXP.net have consistenly bettered our lives and will continuously better our lives through ingenuity, integrity, innovation, and most importantly through love and firstly God.

"Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers' and elders'. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find anything that agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."
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#77 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Leadership Trainee

AUTHOR: Matthew - (U.S.A.)

Since I have been a member of the IXP.net program I have not only found a form of direction in my life, but has also been able to bring me better relationships with those I regularly interact with and those that I newly engaged eith each day. I find myself finding solutions to long asked questions, while creating new questions that allow me brainstorm. Through this company I have met many beautiful people with exteriors to match their stunning interiors. I just hope that everyone can receive this unbelievable opportunity to not only build a current and future financial freedom for yourself and your loved ones, but to able to meet people that your can socialize with on many accords. IXP.net is far more than just a product it truly does give you a greater appreciation of self and others. Thus, this company gives everyone involved a honest and fair opportunity to realize their true self-worth to their direct communities and society.
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#78 UPDATE Employee

It's not a scam

AUTHOR: James - (U.S.A.)

You guys are wrong, especially when making acuusations that Dr. Luis Arriaza and Mr. Dennis Wong are brainwashing us. In fact they are not trying to brainwash us at all, they are only opening our eyes to a wonderful business oppertunity. The 2 individuals mentioned above, are warm and caring people who only want to help other
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#79 UPDATE Employee

This is the Greatest Company

AUTHOR: Nicole - (U.S.A.)

Ixp. net is the greatest company. It has done so much for me and my Family. Before this company i was on the wrong trackof my life. I was partying and smoking because i wanted to run away from my problems i did not know who i was or who i wanted to be. Through my relationship with Dr. Luis Arrizza he has been able to change my life in such a drastic way.

He took a shy,self conscious, under acheiver and turned me around to a life i never knew was possible. A life with out fear and doubt, a life without negativity. He gave me a life with postivity, people who really care about me, abundace and happiness.

Dr. Luis and Dennis Wong are execptional people because they help people and give them exactly what they are seeking as long as person seeking is willing to sacrafice a little of thier old way, work a little harder in the business and especially on themselves.

I am so happy that i was able to meet these gentlemen. I am forever endebted to them. I Love IXP !!!!!!
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#80 UPDATE Employee

This is the Greatest Company

AUTHOR: Nicole - (U.S.A.)

Ixp. net is the greatest company. It has done so much for me and my Family. Before this company i was on the wrong trackof my life. I was partying and smoking because i wanted to run away from my problems i did not know who i was or who i wanted to be. Through my relationship with Dr. Luis Arrizza he has been able to change my life in such a drastic way.

He took a shy,self conscious, under acheiver and turned me around to a life i never knew was possible. A life with out fear and doubt, a life without negativity. He gave me a life with postivity, people who really care about me, abundace and happiness.

Dr. Luis and Dennis Wong are execptional people because they help people and give them exactly what they are seeking as long as person seeking is willing to sacrafice a little of thier old way, work a little harder in the business and especially on themselves.

I am so happy that i was able to meet these gentlemen. I am forever endebted to them. I Love IXP !!!!!!
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#81 UPDATE Employee

This is the Greatest Company

AUTHOR: Nicole - (U.S.A.)

Ixp. net is the greatest company. It has done so much for me and my Family. Before this company i was on the wrong trackof my life. I was partying and smoking because i wanted to run away from my problems i did not know who i was or who i wanted to be. Through my relationship with Dr. Luis Arrizza he has been able to change my life in such a drastic way.

He took a shy,self conscious, under acheiver and turned me around to a life i never knew was possible. A life with out fear and doubt, a life without negativity. He gave me a life with postivity, people who really care about me, abundace and happiness.

Dr. Luis and Dennis Wong are execptional people because they help people and give them exactly what they are seeking as long as person seeking is willing to sacrafice a little of thier old way, work a little harder in the business and especially on themselves.

I am so happy that i was able to meet these gentlemen. I am forever endebted to them. I Love IXP !!!!!!
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#82 UPDATE Employee

This is the Greatest Company

AUTHOR: Nicole - (U.S.A.)

Ixp. net is the greatest company. It has done so much for me and my Family. Before this company i was on the wrong trackof my life. I was partying and smoking because i wanted to run away from my problems i did not know who i was or who i wanted to be. Through my relationship with Dr. Luis Arrizza he has been able to change my life in such a drastic way.

He took a shy,self conscious, under acheiver and turned me around to a life i never knew was possible. A life with out fear and doubt, a life without negativity. He gave me a life with postivity, people who really care about me, abundace and happiness.

Dr. Luis and Dennis Wong are execptional people because they help people and give them exactly what they are seeking as long as person seeking is willing to sacrafice a little of thier old way, work a little harder in the business and especially on themselves.

I am so happy that i was able to meet these gentlemen. I am forever endebted to them. I Love IXP !!!!!!
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#83 UPDATE Employee

Any of the people out there who think IXP.NET is a scam, take a look at yourself and read more about the industry we are in

AUTHOR: Greg - (U.S.A.)

for all of the people out there who think ixp.net is a scam, this should be a great post to read. i was in the same position as all of you were, but i read into it more. i am an involved representative of ixp.net and am very comfortable saying that this company is the farthest thing from a scam i could imagine.

when people say ixp.net is a scam, they are really trying to say that there is no product that we provide. however, we clearly provide a great product that anyone has access to at anytime in nearly 30 different countries in the world.

let me ask all of you negative thinkers out there, do we not sell internet access? if you don't know that answer, you have obviously not been around ixp.net too much and your just listening to the garbage that has been posted by people that are in the same situation as you.

i completely understand that this is a different type of business and many young people are attempting to do very well at that, but for saying that we are "targeting" people in college is ludacris.

if you are reading this message and haven't read anything about network marketing you should really take a look at yourself and ask if you've really done any sufficient research.

what we have is a very simple system that is helping many people across the globe not just financially, emotionally, spiritually,etc., I can vouch for that myself. before i was in this industry i was very uncomfortable with myself but i have been able to be more in touch with myself by being around people that truely and honestly care about me.

again, i can understand if there are people that don't believe that we care about you, that's cool because i felt the same way once. all i did to "test" it out was to give them a chance and see if the reps really do care about each other and aren't trying to "trick" me into believing they "like" me.

low and behold, once i gave all of these people a chance we have all become very close, concerning business or not, and i have relationships with these people i would never want to tarnish.

also, if the whole point to our business was to recruit others to make $, that would be a scam with no questions asked.

with our company we have short and long term financial plans, which proves that we are a legit company.

in this industry there has to be a 2-1 customer to representative ratio to be a legit business, which we are.

but if you aren't around ixp and are trying to read into this company, you won't find that because we don't need to brag to people how good we are. if you're not interested no problem, being financially independent isn't for everyone anyway.

another thing, how can you say we force you into giving us money when we clearly never make any threats to anyone if they don't join? i have never seen a representative put a gun to someone to make them join, what we do is let the person understand what they can do with us that you would never be able to do in a traditional job.

this is all and good this web page and everything, because if you people have ever heard of AmWay, we are just doing the same thing, we just haven't been around as long.

AmWay is a MLM company that has grossed Billions every year, as of recent almost $9 Billion per year. if you have any questions about them, then you really do not understand MLM and will never understand IXP.NET

IXP.NET is an organization that has completely changed my lie, and nobody has ever EVER forced me to do anything for their own good. I have been given my own choice to do what i have done and that is the only way i will ever do anything. if i don't want to do something , i'm not going to do it. Doctor Luis Arriaza has never made me do anything i didn't want to, neither has Dennis Wong.

Another thing. The entire dispute with the FTC. if you knew anything about Network Marketing/MLM, the closets governing body is the FTC. they have to check companies like IXP.NET/2by2.net to see if they are running a successful and legit business.

For all of you saying that we have a bad rap with the FTC,we don't. IF the company had a bad rap with the FTC, we wouldn't be around, plain and simple. The FTC has looked at us, and spoken to Dennis Wong himself, letting him know that the flashlight is on us and they are watching our every move, and everything is going fine.

Noone will ever make any money without and customers, that's the bottom line. If you are all saying this is a scam, ask yourself what a scam is and then ask if we fit into that position.
You are not going to be an employee of IXP.NET that's the reason you pay. obviously this is not a job, this is an income opportunity for you where you have a chance to live the life you want to live. we don't make any false promises, but the title of this "rip-off report" is that we steal money and make false promises.

bottom line, get involved or get left behind, because one way or another you will hear of ixp.net when we go public. when we do, there will be people that will be making money, and many others will be customers of an extremely wonderful internet service like no other. the choice is up to you.

Mr. Dennis Wong , and Mr. Jeffrey P. Morgan, thank you for your visionary spirit and giving individuals the opportunity in helping you and helping themselves in the same light. both of you have given me a life i would never have thought i could live and i have no clue what i would be doing happily without this.
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#84 UPDATE Employee

My Thoughts on IXP.NET

AUTHOR: Korey - (U.S.A.)

IXP.NET is a company that placed a mirror in front of me and allowed me to see the truth about myself. That if I have to accomplish any type of success I need to better myself on the interior and it is dependent on any other external force. IXP has also given me the privilege of being around positive, success, and energetic individuals who keep me motivated to become better person that I am each day. I thank Mr. Dennis Wong for creating such a great company and for giving the opportunity to see that there is something better for me than how I am today.

Dennis Wong and Dr. Luis Arriaza are individuals who have made an extremely positive impact on my life and the manner in which I think. They have made me a more open-minded, stronger, and more positively influential individual than I was before being introduced to them. This was done by helping me realize the truth about life and most importantly the truth about myself. Their leadership has helped me dig deeper within myself in order to stay on the road to success and the more that I found myself and got to know myself, the more success would become to me. These two individuals are powerful and influential individuals not because they care about themselves alone, but they understand relationships and the power of connection between people. This is what both of these individuals create in this company. Based on my experience observing these two individuals interact with the reps in the company, I can see that there is usually a positive connection between them and the reps. With my own experience speaking with them, I felt the energy that they did have a concern and a care for my wellbeing in this company and other aspects of my life because when either Dr. Arriaza or Mr. Wong speaks, both speaks with a certain passion that can only be experienced when in their presence. In my eyes this shows that they possess a wealth more valuable than the money that anyone can earn. They have spiritual wealth, which in my opinion is understanding spirituality. I thank both of these individuals for all their contributions that they gave me by just having the privilege of hearing them speak and affirm the truth.
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#85 Consumer Suggestion

Internet Company IXP is a ri-off needs to be shut down I almost fell for their lies

AUTHOR: Ikee - (U.S.A.)

IXP is a rip-off company and needs to be shut down I almost fell for their lies. when I went to the company at a hotel in Milford Ct They were saying how you can retire at the age of twenty three and have milliones of dollars but its a big lie if you want to join they will say it coost $450.00 to get in the company I told them i do not have that kind of mony they put lots of pressure on me making me feel stupid. The person who harassed me is gogo odukue. I went to west haven high school with him he lives in east haven these people need to be arrested before they take any more money from people when I got home i told my uncle what happened to me he said those people are full of s**t they want your money ixp is a pyramid sceme if a person comes up to you and says do you want to make some money i work for a internet company and their giving out jobs it is a bull s**t lie when I went to the hotel with the police its like thy were nver their the police need to shut down this company. odukue grace needes to be in prison fo theft. The police needs to checkout his year book pcture of him at west haven high school.I thinnk the cops should go under cover to find these bitches.
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#86 Consumer Comment

Excellent. If we want our repots to have weight, then it is important that everyone holds all posters to a level of honesty and truthfulness.

AUTHOR: Darren - (U.S.A.)

Kristian,
Thank you for the excellent report. I wish all reports could be like that one.

People get upset with me because I question reporters and the respondants... they see it as my being a self appointed judge or something.

To me, this is a public forum that is a tool to alert consumers to frauds and rip-offs. It is also a very good forum for companies to respond if they wish.

Most companies don't because there is so much sniping (I am guilty here myself) and unsubstantiated reports.

In the past, a disgruntled customer had no recourse except to tell people over coffee at work. Here, the coffee table has broadened.

If we want our repots to have weight, then it is important that everyone holds all posters to a level of honesty and truthfulness.

Thank you!
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#87 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Here is where you can find the facts

AUTHOR: Kristian - (U.S.A.)

You can view the FTC lawsuit report by going to ixp.net.

On that corporate page, you can click on the banner that says "Important FTC lawsuit settlement terms." It is a very long document, but that is where you can read what they were busted for.

It was an 11 million dollar verdict for deceptive business practices.

The interesting thing is that the company has put a spin on it calling it a "speeding ticket" due to the practices of "a few rogue reps".

This is not true. The deceptive recruiting practices continue today, and when I was in the company from 1999 to 2003 we still did the same things. They were taught to us be the people Marcus mentioned, Dennis Wong and Dr Arriaza, and the other "leaders".

Anyway, Fox 11 news in Los Angeles did an undercover piece on ixp.net when it was called 2by2.net and revealed the rampany deception that was occurring. The better business bureau also received many complaints from reps and customers. The publicity was so bad that they had to change their name from 2by2.net to ixp.net.

That is probably why you could not find anything on ixp.net. You have to search the bbb.com or ftc under the name 2by2.net.

They were pretty smart to change their name like that.

They do a systematic brainwashing on their reps. A perfect illustration is Brenden's own words in his post. They like to target young kids of college age and feed them these lines that he has repeated here.

I suggest you go to google and type in 2by2.net sucks forum. This is a forum at network 54 where people have posted their experiences. Brenden has been there, as I have seen his posts. Actually, he likes to bury useful threads with nonsense anytime facts like these are posted.

And Brenden, please take my advice...I know you will not listen, but please keep your eyes open. I have known Dr Luis for over 12 years. I am a well-educated professional, as were many of us on his team. He is a very skilled and convincing manipulator, but he is also a bold faced liar who really only has his own interest in mind.

Just look at what some of his patients have posted about him on this website. If you want more proof, ask him why NONE of his old friends have anything to do with him. As a matter of fact, almost all of us who were involved in the company with him when he first got in actually would consider him an enemy. He has destroyed many lives with his lies, and led many businesses to financial ruin through the false promises he gave.

Let me put it to you this way...do your own research...find out why his original partners, Dr Mata and Charles Gallegos are no longer with him in the business...

It is because they were not making the kind of money he claimed they were, despite all the effort. And also because he kept screwing them over, like racking up charges on their credit cards for hotel rentals for presentations and not paying his share.

Ask him what happened to his team from Advantage Graphics, who used to have a thriving business and used to put all the 2by2 decals on cars. He pressured them to get a Lambo. Told them they had no faith in him or the company if they did not. At the time they were in the top producer inner circle, and listened to him. BTW, they were making less than $300 dollars per week as a "top producer."

THeir business failed thanks to his pressure. He did the same thing to many of his chiropractic friends, and attorneys. Ever wonder why none of them are around him anymore?

All of us were professionals with marketing and networking experience. So Brenden, we do not fit your example of the type of person you portrayed. I am self employed and make a great living and have a fantastic lifestyle. I wish you the best, but want you to be warned about these unscupulous people before you suffer the horrible fates that so many have had.

Anyway, the facts dont lie.
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#88 Consumer Comment

Legalities aside

AUTHOR: Darren - (U.S.A.)

Marcus,
I can't find anything on the FTC website about an investigation or lawsuit. Neither could I on Google.

To be fair, if it is true, then if you could post a link of something (case file and location) then it would help validate the issue. It would impossible for a company to prove that there isn't an investigation or lawsuit.

A quick rule of thumb... if the people doing a presentation are spending more time about how you can sell the program to family and others than they are on the product... it is a pyramid.

What is more important... the product they are selling? Laundry detergent, perfume, financial services... if all the talk is about how you can bring others into the company and get money from that "cash flow" then you need to run as fast as possible.

Brenden,
I have taken those college courses when I got my BA in Business from CSUSB. What is your point?

Unfortunately, the laws against these are written in a way that they can be gotten around.

And not that you would claim it... but others have... MLM is not taught at any reputable business school.

Thanks,
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#89 UPDATE Employee

It's your own choice. This is NOT a scam.

AUTHOR: Brenden - (U.S.A.)

Some people just don't have anything better to do than feel bitter. About what? A business that costs less than your X-Box or the stupid street racer modifications you put on your pathetic cars? How much money is that making you? The real scam is your broke thinking. Hello ever heard of NETWORK MARKETING? Business is business. Grow up! Jobs do not require and investment so get it straight, this is not a JOB. Ever taken Economics and high school or did you fail that too. Some people are so weak minded that once some another bitter person says "scam", you believe it. Check your sources before you listen to them. If they are not wealthy or very successful, what are THEY going to teach you about a business? Do you listen to your broke friends? Yeah, follow them and see where YOU end up. Dr Luis is a hard working honest man and posting negative comments about him like this is very childish. If you really know Dr. Luis or Mr.Wong you wouldn't be posting this trash. IF ANY OF YOU OUT THERE READ THIS, NOTE THAT THE ABOVE TRASH POSTED BY THESE SENSELESS PEOPLE IS JUST OUT OF IGNORANCE. AGAIN, CHECK YOUR SOURCES. THEY MAY JUST BE THE REAL SCAM.
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#90 Consumer Suggestion

THAT IS THE TRUTH! ..TRICKED ME TOO!

AUTHOR: Sammy - (U.S.A.)

THESE GUYS TRICKED ME TOO! I LOST THOUSANDS AND ALMOST LOST MY BUSINESS. EVERY MONTH THERE WAS MORE PRESSURE TO HAVE MORE MEETINGS, PUT IN MORE TIME, TRAVEL TO RECRUIT, PAY FOR CUSTOMERS!

DO NOT TRUST THESE GUYS. THEY SWINDLED ME TOO, AND NOW THEY ARE MOVING INTO THE EAST COAST AND EVEN LATIN AMERICA.

IF SOMEONE IVITES YOU TO "MEET SOMEONE WHO REALLY KNOWS HOW TO MAKE MONEY" RUN AS FAST AND FAR AWAY AS YOU CAN!!!
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