Enigin PLC Believed to have missold me St Austell Other

Came across this complaint and I just thought I would share my experience with Enigin.  I have also lost quite a bit of money with Enigin. As the complaint states the training is very impressive (and so is the rest of the marketing, but more on that later); however, I do believe they respond to distributors. Though the response might not be what you like.

As mentioned above, the marketing is very good.  In fact, in training they stress the need to spend a significant amount of resources on marketing.  This is something I agree with and proceeded to do after my training and received quite a bit of leads, many of which were interested.  However, when I did their payback analysis it was obvious that they weren't paying enough electrical costs to make the eniscope worthwhile.  I thought to myself Enigin suggested I target SMEs which is what I was doing so what's wrong.  I think the problems here are is as follows:

Firstly, electricity is significantly less expensive in Canada & USA than Europe and MENA regions.  Particularly in more northern areas where half the year air conditioning isn't used.  So Enigin's suggested strategy of marketing to SMEs doesn't work in North America.  I know their marketing features a distributor in Florida and their work with a college; however, I think that there are very few successful distributors in here.  If you are thinking of investing, I would ask for the contact info for several successful AND unsuccessful distributors.

Second, the profit margins that Enigin advertises are completely unrealistic in Canada and USA.  There are a number of costs that they minimize, which can be significant (including duties and installation).  The cost for duty taxes can be significant for products coming from non-FTA countries.  Also, if you want the products installed professionally, it will cost you quite a bit.  It is a good idea to check your local regulations to see if inspections are required, which will cost you more.  Bottom line, products are priced way to high to make any money in this market.

So I tried pursuing larger businesses and found that the larger they were, the more they wanted a products from an established brand (Siemens, GE, Johnson Controls, etc...). These competitors actually offer many similar products for much less.  I contacted Enigin and asked them to restock the inventory I have and they stated that it was obsolete and they wouldn't.  I had purchased significant inventory (Enigin Hubs/CUES/ACES/and iMEC) two years ago and when I purchased it, they said it was the newest hardware and they would be able to include future upgrades for water and gas monitoring on the same system. Now they are saying the entire product line I have is obsolete.
 
While I place some of the blame on myself I believe Enigin makes ludicrous claims of distributor's profit margins in their prospectus, has a one fit strategy for all (SMEs don't work everywhere), and has high competition with established brands that provide less expensive products.  Overall I would say my experience with Enigin has been less than satisfactory and their product is more sizzle than steak (another term they use in training).

 They still refuse to restock my inventory, will amend this if they do.

 You can buy copies of their latest financial statements online at http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/ 

Dear eniginpartnerusa,

I think that the conclusion of your research is right on the mark.  It does not appear that Enigin has made any effort to legally trade in the US nor does it appear that they have paid any taxes in the state of New York.  In an effort to look legit, at one time they did offer a PO Box with an address in New York City and they had been conducting business (recruiting) in New York but there is no record of them paying any due taxes to the city. 

The product as seen on Maryland Green Power website may have been Enigin's attempt to brand a UL product for the US market.  The initiative must have been short lived but Enigin continued to push a different branded CE unit modified and put into their own assembly (box plus connectors).   Once modified, would not pass UL or even CE standards.  Doing so would exposes Enigin and their dealers to high liability and risks that they are apparently willing to take.  All it will take is one accident. 

The pricing difference that you have noted must be the difference between the OEM price and Enigin's mark-ups.  The high cost of goods and the ridiculously high dealer fees will make it impossible to be a success in the marketplace. 

I have been researching Enigin opportunity for some time and came upon this website:

http://www.marylandgreenpower.com/greenpower/enigin/web-enabled-meter-wem-mx/

This company seems to have been involved with the Enigin opportunity but I do not recognize the product on that webpage. It does not match the Enigin brochure.

The comments section at the bottom contains some negative information about Enigin from someone who hints that Enigin products are supplied by other companies and that Enigin do not have their own products.

In any case, he didn't seem too happy about the experience (the comment writer, not the salesman trying to sell the meters.)

In any case, I called a company in California who is selling the Eniscope for close to $ 3,000. The manufacturer of the meter on the website above is quoting $ 700 retail so it couldn't be the same thing.

Another Enigin representative in Florida seems to be successful, having sold an Eniscope to a College in Daytona Beach. But when I asked him if the College knows the Eniscope shown on the Enigin site is not UL listed, he replies "what they don't know won't hurt them!"

I think what they don't know WILL hurt them. It's a big potential liability to have non-UL approved equipment at a commercial facility in the United States. 

The apparent lack of ethics of the Enigin group definitely made a bad impression. I would stay away from this group.

Finally, I called the Federal Trade Commission and they did not have any information at all on the Enigin opportunity in the United States. How could a company selling an opportunity not register with the FTC? 

That's not even legal!

Being that I have not found a single successful Enigin agent anywhere, and Enigin refuses to give me the names of successful Enigin reps, I have to conclude that there are none.

Stay away from Enigin if you cannot spare to lose your money, because you will lose it!

 I still want my money back, Iam glad to hear the many people have joined the large group in the U.S. to stop you Troy and Big Daddy from more fraud. The attorney general here in the U.S. will be picking up the case soon and has taken this long due to their heavy case load. This is free here in the U.S. and I want you to feel the brunt of the united States Government.I told that pompas  wrigley I would get legal and demand my money back.Troy is foolish with his emails and I am glad he said he would give me my money back. The time is coming and I will persue you all till you are shut down. There is a law against selling business opportunities here without registering in all states. Ian will see this was his mistake. Send me my money and you will get more sales. I know your loosing prospects and as the group grows more will be lost. Soon you will see its cheaper to pay me off. I will pursue you till hell freezes over and continue to stop your sales. The FBI will soon get to you. There are many people to testify and people like you need to be stopped. Tim Goldzwig   If you are honest then provide true successfull people and the fact that you use Rob in the united states is his mistake. I know your ex employee is a worry to you Troy and you will findthat person will provide the inside info to take you down. You took my 40,000.00 gave me nothing and the only success you can prove is your own not the distributors. The revenue Enigin brings in is very small when you advertise that you are international. The Chrysler BLDG in New York leased only for meetings the

Orlando meetings you are selling business opportunities illegally.You are all blood suckers, living off the pain of others.Crawl out of your low ethics and return the money. You have threatened me and feel you are free. We will see. Freedom of speech here in the U.S. We helped your country in the war, this is sad. 

I find it interesting that you rebut this when there are many disatisfied distributors getting ready to sue you.You are not telling the truth at all.Sorry to announce one of your employees is going be what takes you down and signed statements and recordings will be you demise. I know 6 people getting ready to sue you and you wont be pompass for long, Regards another so called distributor you have taken for a ride. Tim G

I am the Operations Manager for an Enigin partner in Ireland. After reading the comments I would like to say this is a very positive business to be in and despite the recession it is what clients and businesses need now.

The EnergyMaps solution does works.

However similar to any business, a concentrated amount of effort is required. In one instance we have managed to save up to 80% of night time costs, simply by analysing the information provided by the Eniscope.

Enigin supply a solid level of support to us. Even on our first installation we were able to save, and our client companies are very receptive to Enigin's Energy Maps Program. We are successful in achieving sales and look forward to expanding and growing our business with Enigin.

We received a Google Alert regarding this posting from Keith Osborne. Unfortunately, his comment is littered with false, libelous and malicious statements which reflect badly on the hard work being done by Enigin PLC and more importantly Enigin's active partners who are helping customers all around the world to reduce their energy consumption. Unlike other websites, Ripoff Report will not remove or adjust false, defamatory, libelous or malicious comments unless you pay them and, like any other reputable company, we do not wish to be subjected to extortion tactics.


Therefore, we believe it is appropriate to set the record straight regarding Keith Osborne and provide you with some facts below that he has neglected to mention. We believe this will provide a more balanced view of the reality of the situation. If you would like to know how we can assist you in saving up to 40% of your energy costs then please feel free to call us on +44 (0)1726 871 040 or contact us via www.enigin.com. We will arrange for one of our Authorized Enigin Partners to visit you at your earliest convenience and provide you with a FREE survey.


In the meantime you can view interviews with our partners and customers here www.enigin.typepad.com


The FACTS:


Keith Osborne was desperate to avoid paying any tax and wanted to set up an offshore company. For this reason he refused to pay VAT (value added tax) even though he is a UK resident. He never set up the offshore company and to date he has still not paid the VAT (In the UK you pay VAT whether or not you are VAT registered). Although Keith claimed in his application that he had substantial resources with which to finance his business he refused to pay his 200 hotel bill at the end of the training.


Keith owes Enigin PLC a substantial sum of money. To assist with his cash-flow we gave him the option to make deferred payments to cover the cost of his license. He has refused to pay this money despite repeated reminders. We decided to suspend his account until receipt of payment. At this point Keith decided to 'leave' Enigin rather than stick to his agreement. We have passed this matter over to our solicitors.


Keith was asked to submit his business plan at the end of Training so we could assist him with business development. He refused to submit his plan despite repeated reminders over a five month period. His reason was that he had never written one before so why start now. It has since come to my attention that Keith is a used car salesman so it would have been vital for him to develop a meaningful plan if he was to make a successful transition to the Energy Saving Business. Despite numerous attempts to help Keith by phone and email (all of which is recorded on our CRM) he refused to accept any support or follow through on any of the proven training and advice we provided.


Keith refused to install our Advanced Energy Meter in a trial site as recommended by Enigin's Business Development Team. In a recorded telephone conversation he confirmed that he would LIE to potential prospects about the effectiveness of the product if they asked him what kind of results he had experienced. He was told in that conversation that such an approach is unacceptable and was asked to confirm by email that he would not attempt to deceive clients in this manner - he never replied.


Keith was sent leads received directly by Enigin PLC from potential customers in his area that were interested in our Energy Saving Solutions. Our records show that he never followed up on this interest despite follow up requests that he do so.


We have no active partners in any of the territories listed in Keith's agreement. So his statement to the contrary is utterly false. It is possible that a partner from a neighbouring territory has followed up on a lead outside of their agreed scope of operation. This would not have been done with Enigin's consent. We do our very best to protect our partners interests but it is notoriously difficult to police territory conflicts. If Keith had contacted us directly, we could have easily cleared up this misunderstanding. Instead he chose to jump to a conclusion and resort to defamation.


Keith has never installed one of our Advanced Energy Meter's and he has never worked through an EnergyMaps program with a client so he is ill-placed to comment on its value. Of course it is much easier to criticize something from behind a computer rather than apply yourself to delivering excellent service as our other partners are doing.

Best regards,


Tim McMahon
Commercial Director
For and on behalf of Enigin PLC