- Report: #277614
Complaint Review: Firestone
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| Firestone
Macon, Georgia U.S.A. |
|
Firestone Don't work there! Flag-time pay scam! Macon Georgia
*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Another former employee
*UPDATE EX-employee responds: could b worse
*UPDATE Employee: mechanic 35 years
*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Flatrate tech for 30 yrs
*UPDATE Employee: Not worth the raise
*UPDATE EX-employee responds: just think
*UPDATE Employee: All is true!!!!
*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Low pay
*REBUTTAL Individual responds: pay
*UPDATE EX-employee responds: It has nothing to do with "working faster".
*UPDATE EX-employee responds: me43 here-again
*UPDATE Employee: you miss the point
*UPDATE Employee: flat rate pay
*UPDATE Employee: Yes, you work for free.
*UPDATE Employee: Just the facts or what not
*UPDATE Employee: propaganda
*UPDATE Employee: They don't call it "flat rape" for nothing.
*UPDATE Employee: pay
*General Comment: Flat Rate
*REBUTTAL Owner of company: You can't spell.
*General Comment: TO ALL FIRESTONE MANAGERS
*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Firestone is a ripoff to technicians and consumers
*General Comment: to the last rebuttal
*UPDATE Employee: taken advantage of
*UPDATE Employee: flat rate and firestone rate
*UPDATE Employee: Pay Attention
*UPDATE EX-employee responds: certain stores-certain people-different
*UPDATE Employee: New Employee
*General Comment: Interesting
*UPDATE Employee: Firestone flag time
*UPDATE Employee: Underpaid?
*UPDATE Employee: You are a sorry Tech
*UPDATE EX-employee responds: i agree
*UPDATE EX-employee responds: i half-way agree
*UPDATE EX-employee responds: i half-way agree
*UPDATE EX-employee responds: i half-way agree
*UPDATE EX-employee responds: i half-way agree
*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Flagging
*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Flagging
*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Flagging
*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Flagging
*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Fill In the blanks...
*Author of original report: I do know how it works, you're missing my point
*UPDATE EX-employee responds: you must not know how flag rate works then
Does your business have a bad reputation?
Fix it the right way.
Corporate Advocacy Program™
I'm warning all of my fellow mechanics out there about Firestone. Please listen to me and don't get suckered into working for minimum wage!
Firestone pays flag time to their mechanics and say that they pay "book labor", claiming that the book labor they go by is AllData or Mitchell. And everything you do, you'll get paid for.
Here's what they don't tell you:
Firestone has their own labor guide for paying mechanics and it doesn't pay the labor times you'll find in AllData or Mitchell. Most times, it pays less.
They like to overpopulate their shops. When I was hired, and finally got through all the red tape to start work, I found out they'd hired two more mechanics as well. There were going to be more mechanics than there were bays in the shop!
The "garanteed minimum" is what you will earn. Period. Nothing more. You'll have to work open to close seven days a week to earn more.
You won't get your first paycheck when you're supposed to. They conveniently "don't get you in the computer system" and end up getting some free work out of you unless you threaten to contact the Department of Labor. I had to do that. It was only after I called their internal "make the right call" line that the district manager made the manager pay me, and he paid me out of the cash drawer.
You can do better. Firestone isn't the place for you.
And you customers out there, keep in mind that if they treat their employees like this they'll treat you even worse.
Mike
Macon, Georgia
U.S.A.
Firestone pays flag time to their mechanics and say that they pay "book labor", claiming that the book labor they go by is AllData or Mitchell. And everything you do, you'll get paid for.
Here's what they don't tell you:
Firestone has their own labor guide for paying mechanics and it doesn't pay the labor times you'll find in AllData or Mitchell. Most times, it pays less.
They like to overpopulate their shops. When I was hired, and finally got through all the red tape to start work, I found out they'd hired two more mechanics as well. There were going to be more mechanics than there were bays in the shop!
The "garanteed minimum" is what you will earn. Period. Nothing more. You'll have to work open to close seven days a week to earn more.
You won't get your first paycheck when you're supposed to. They conveniently "don't get you in the computer system" and end up getting some free work out of you unless you threaten to contact the Department of Labor. I had to do that. It was only after I called their internal "make the right call" line that the district manager made the manager pay me, and he paid me out of the cash drawer.
You can do better. Firestone isn't the place for you.
And you customers out there, keep in mind that if they treat their employees like this they'll treat you even worse.
Mike
Macon, Georgia
U.S.A.
This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 10/07/2007 04:28 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Firestone/Macon-Georgia-31206/Firestone-Dont-work-there-Flag-time-pay-scam-Macon-Georgia-277614. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.
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Search Tips#1 UPDATE EX-employee responds
Another former employee
AUTHOR: jb - ()
SUBMITTED: Thursday, April 11, 2013
I also got suckered by this company. I had worked for a couple of small independent shops when Firestone was hiring quite a few years ago, I bought into the song and dance they were giving and quickly found that all was not well.
I also started the same week that three other techs started. That left us with more technicians than stall space. There were only two techs that had been at the store for more that one year and both claimed to be looking for other work.
Flat rate times were nearly half of the regional average. I inquired about this and the response from management was that Firestone had reviewed the standard trade materials (alldata / mitchells). Firestone then reviewed how much time it takes a tech on average to complete a job including locating, pulling in and racking the vehicle. This also incorporated time for corrosion in northern climates as well as clean up and related paperwork. I can promise you that their flat rate times are a scam. 0.9 hours for a front brake job including turning the rotors!!!! I nosed around a little further and found that Firestone does / did have its own published flat rate manual. I was / is called the "P-100".
It should show a prospective employee something when they overpopulate the shop and have massive turnover. Only a few of the top earners for the company stick around. Also any prospective customers should take note, after I pulled in a vehicle and removed the wheels for free a "salesman" ran out an took a look at the car. Many times I was forced to replace brakes, tires and suspension components that were perfectly fine.
After a few months I left this company and went to work for a large dealership where I stayed for 15 years. Oh yeah, I was treated fairly and made on average more that three times (3X) the money that I made at Firestone and was only allowed to work 42 hours per week.
I also started the same week that three other techs started. That left us with more technicians than stall space. There were only two techs that had been at the store for more that one year and both claimed to be looking for other work.
Flat rate times were nearly half of the regional average. I inquired about this and the response from management was that Firestone had reviewed the standard trade materials (alldata / mitchells). Firestone then reviewed how much time it takes a tech on average to complete a job including locating, pulling in and racking the vehicle. This also incorporated time for corrosion in northern climates as well as clean up and related paperwork. I can promise you that their flat rate times are a scam. 0.9 hours for a front brake job including turning the rotors!!!! I nosed around a little further and found that Firestone does / did have its own published flat rate manual. I was / is called the "P-100".
It should show a prospective employee something when they overpopulate the shop and have massive turnover. Only a few of the top earners for the company stick around. Also any prospective customers should take note, after I pulled in a vehicle and removed the wheels for free a "salesman" ran out an took a look at the car. Many times I was forced to replace brakes, tires and suspension components that were perfectly fine.
After a few months I left this company and went to work for a large dealership where I stayed for 15 years. Oh yeah, I was treated fairly and made on average more that three times (3X) the money that I made at Firestone and was only allowed to work 42 hours per week.
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What's this?
as much as firestone does suck---mechanics can not get away from shady employers------i now work at tire kingdom---they pay 23$ flat rate--in actuality i make 11 an hr for around 47 clock hrs a week-no overtime--------they pay 2.5 tenths for oil change which includes a battery check(as we are told it is company policy-yet i cannot find this company policy?-lol),inspecting the car and as customary free tire rotation---------
it supposto pay .3 for tire rotation-.3 to check battery(.2 to replace--test and replace = .5)---good luck at tire kingdom gettin paid 2 check batteries on EVERY SINGLE car u touch--flat repair--test the battery-------wheel alignments(paid) they pay u not by time but a flat fee of 15$---also many people have an alignment policy like firestone and for these they pay u $5!!!----
i also have never once been paid to install air filter--NOT ONCE WITHIN THE 3 YEARS I BEEN THERE---air filter pay .3!!!!-i dont bother checkin anymore!!!----u work at tire kingdom and they straight up just dont pay commision for around 80% of work performed-as all u get is oil change and free tire rotate--then there is a lot of people that come in 2 get there free rotations and free wheel alignments("policy")------so basically--they want 2 give away all kinds of crap for free and then not pay u for that work performed---
at the end of the week since they no pay commision they always say i on "earnings differential" and they pay 11 an hr for all hrs(no overtime)--seems like a scam and shot in the foot----if they paid commision for all work--i may get paid-----manager now tries 2 get me to cut rotors with every brake job for an hr!!!---umm-labor time is .3 to cut each rotor and hr 2 remopve rotors = 1.6 ---i been tellin him lately f you given the fact they are doin wrong------------------
then u have managers that think there special with the title of manager and go on power trips--thinkmin they can tell me to clean --i clean my own mess thank u!!!!!!!--------so trust me when i say---as much as firestone sucks--there is far worse
it supposto pay .3 for tire rotation-.3 to check battery(.2 to replace--test and replace = .5)---good luck at tire kingdom gettin paid 2 check batteries on EVERY SINGLE car u touch--flat repair--test the battery-------wheel alignments(paid) they pay u not by time but a flat fee of 15$---also many people have an alignment policy like firestone and for these they pay u $5!!!----
i also have never once been paid to install air filter--NOT ONCE WITHIN THE 3 YEARS I BEEN THERE---air filter pay .3!!!!-i dont bother checkin anymore!!!----u work at tire kingdom and they straight up just dont pay commision for around 80% of work performed-as all u get is oil change and free tire rotate--then there is a lot of people that come in 2 get there free rotations and free wheel alignments("policy")------so basically--they want 2 give away all kinds of crap for free and then not pay u for that work performed---
at the end of the week since they no pay commision they always say i on "earnings differential" and they pay 11 an hr for all hrs(no overtime)--seems like a scam and shot in the foot----if they paid commision for all work--i may get paid-----manager now tries 2 get me to cut rotors with every brake job for an hr!!!---umm-labor time is .3 to cut each rotor and hr 2 remopve rotors = 1.6 ---i been tellin him lately f you given the fact they are doin wrong------------------
then u have managers that think there special with the title of manager and go on power trips--thinkmin they can tell me to clean --i clean my own mess thank u!!!!!!!--------so trust me when i say---as much as firestone sucks--there is far worse
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What's this? #3 UPDATE Employee
mechanic 35 years
AUTHOR: jerry - (United States of America)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, February 27, 2013
your assessment of this company is 100% correct. i currently (?) work for this company and have noticed the same problems you have encountered. some additional problems i noticed are for example: excessive paperwork - should be working on vehicles, not paper. heavy work on large trucks paying the same as work on smaller cars. no dispatcher of work- other mechanics being unfair on jobs- pull own repair orders with the better paying jobs.
have to work 10+ hours a day even if there is no work (no work no pay when on flat rate). makes your pay less than minimum wage. nonsense policies of putting a plastic chain across the service bay every time you come in or out by another person. all this does is slow down mechanics therefore getting even less pay. (company says it is for insurance purposes- must have a poor insurance company). i would expect the #1 tire manufacturer to treat their employees better. i am a ase recertified master technician and a former honda master technician. i am very disappointed in this company.
have to work 10+ hours a day even if there is no work (no work no pay when on flat rate). makes your pay less than minimum wage. nonsense policies of putting a plastic chain across the service bay every time you come in or out by another person. all this does is slow down mechanics therefore getting even less pay. (company says it is for insurance purposes- must have a poor insurance company). i would expect the #1 tire manufacturer to treat their employees better. i am a ase recertified master technician and a former honda master technician. i am very disappointed in this company.
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What's this? #4 REBUTTAL Owner of company
Flatrate tech for 30 yrs
AUTHOR: FredS - (United States of America)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, October 17, 2012
Mitchell and all other labor guides do not research actual labor studies. They merely add a multiplier to factory labor times and call that fair. Every single manufacturer has been cutting labor time standards for years. The dealerships raise the labor rates by 5%, and the factory cuts times by 5% to even it out, the loser? The mechanic has just lost 5% of his income. You may also pay actual labor times, but, you will not seek and pay additional times included for removal of components to access, and or diagnostic times. What kills a good tech is not being paid for "while your there" labor. A brake inspection pays .3 hour, "while your there", rotate the tires, which should be another .3, PLUS clean and adjust, cause your already there, which is another .5 hours. I should get 1.1 hours, but without a dispatcher to dig for me, I only get the .3, and work for a solid 45 minutes. Then I get to install wiper blades, and air filter for free. While the shop clears their money through parts mark-up. How about those "FREE" 23 point inspections? Put the car on the rack, look it over for a good 30 minutes or so, write it up, find the labor times, get parts prices, and availability. Only to have all repairs other than the oil change declined. I just spent another hour, and get paid .2 for the oil change. Mine and EVERY other techs bring home pay dropped by 40% over the past 10 years, while the number of units moved through the shop increased by 20%. Also, don't forget the real reason mechanics are starving, it now takes the purchase of air tools (at $400-600 each) to even try to keep up with book times. That comes out of the money we earn, to do the job for you. Any decent tech has a minimum $10,000 in tools, with good techs closer to $30,000, and replacing or repairing every week just to upkeep. Managers blow smoke to hide the cost of working for mechanics because they take a percentage of each tech, and the more techs, the less customer drive off, but the available work is not there. Don't even try to tell me you do not overload the shop with techs, because every company tracks customer drive-off, and considers that a loss if even one oil change leaves, BUT, now you have 7 techs trying to live off of 3 lost oil changes. If you are even thinking of being a mechanic, STOP, and stop now, you will NOT make more than $25k a year I don't care how hard or long you work.
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What's this? #5 UPDATE Employee
Not worth the raise
AUTHOR: wess - (United States of America)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, October 16, 2012
Well sorry to say that if you have been with the company for 2 years and are only makeing 10 dollars an hour then I would have to say your not very good at what you do apparently. for one I dont think any firestone manager would risk loosing a (Good) tech over a raise. working hard or having ASE certifications doesn't make you a good tech. And as far as flat rate goes it puts the ability to make money in your hands, the faster you work the more money you make pretty simple. There is nothing wrong with this kind of system. Get off your but quit whining work harder and maby just maby you might make more money. YOU ARE AN ADULT Firestone shouldn't and will not spoon feed you so if that is what you are looking for find a new carrier And this goes for all the other WHINERS on here
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What's this? #6 UPDATE EX-employee responds
just think
AUTHOR: Bill d - (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Friday, November 04, 2011
i have posted on this thread--i worked firestone in the southh florida miami district----this is in no way to defend firsetone cause i dont like them either--BUT----the competition here is tire kingdom--they are far worse than what you will experience at firestone-----first off--TK does not pay for courtesy checks!!--when i do an oil change at TK i get paid 2.5 tenths!!!---brakes 1.0----alignments we get paid a flat 15$---i was makin 17.50 but they cut the pay on it!!!!-----TK also has just done many pay cuts for its mechanics over the years----now--starting next month there will be no guarantee!!!!!--at firestone you are gauarnteed 35 flag hours for 40 clock hours!!---they want to pay me on straight flat rate!!!--but they are not going to want to pay for the courtesy checks we got to do!!---nothing will change but my pay------how many times have i done free work cause it is warranty!!!--and it wasnt my jobs--i did a fuel pump on a ford truck from almost a year ago for free--about a 86 f-150-----------of course i can call corporate and investigate but that starts trouble--this happened to me at firestone--------in any case---bottom line--i have not seen firestone cut the pay of there employees(let alone a couple times)---TK is not a companmy to retire with--you will endure pay cut after pay cut---and before i worked TK i always heard bad things--but bad things are everywhere---the point--good luck to TK attracting talent with there pay plan----yes--they pay me 23$ an hour-----but when you workin for much less time it evens out--let alone the shop i am in now--i got a manger that feeds his homie--he can be workin 2 cars and i am jerkin off and he gives him another car(3)------my pay sometimes is 250$ a week(but as of now-they have a $400 gaurantee or 11$ an hour or the higher flat rate whichever is first---the other store i admit i did pretty makin 7-800 a week---but much of my problems occured during the store change---i am the only white guy in an all black shop--things work both ways when minority or majority---------in any case--what i am tryin to say is there is bullshit and bullshit people/managers everywhere--BUT TK IS FAR WORSE----you want to endure pay cuts-work at tire kingdom--you want to deal with dickhead mangers bi**hin at you all day about wearing saefety glasses and using torque STICKS and making sure you use the torque WRENCH all day cause they are on a power trip!!!--some of you service writers are a joke--kind of like the ones that posted on this thread
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What's this? #7 UPDATE Employee
All is true!!!!
AUTHOR: Larry Johnson - (United States of America)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, September 20, 2011
I am a firestone tech of many years. Master tech L1 Tech of the year ect. ect. After reading all of these post the one thing I noticed was the positive post came primarily from management non flat rate. I have found this to be very standard. It is easier to tell you you are slow you are lazy. Than to help you become more productive or stop feeding his boy all the gravy or address the over staffing issue and the list could go on and on. Maybe they should be flat rate?? I am not lazy and very productive and have the awards and education to back it up and have seen and experienced all of the issues brought up. Now with that said. I have recently talked to several techs in my district and all of us feel the same way about many of these issues. This is a very small sample of techs all having the same experience. How do you explain that?? Maybe the company should take notice. But we all know that is not going to happen. The brand promise is JOKE. Promise to care LOL!!They do not care about their techs. Well until they find out you are leaving and then you are the most important person on earth. We are over worked and under paid in most cases not all, under paid I for 1 have been working for a lot less than my peers. I see guys not even as skilled with no experience come in the door making more $$ per hour than I do. What message does this send to their employees??? Wake up stop the revolving door take care of your employees and watch your biz grow!!! These guys are not lying I have seen all of and even had some of them happen to me. And all of the managers on here have too!! Not all techs are cut out to work flat rate. But we all should be able to drive nice cars and pay our bills and I have techs in my shop that are living just over broke. And that should not be the case working for a big company like Firebone!!!
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What's this?
30 out of 50hrs is 60%, not 70%.
Firestone's guarantee will ensure you make minimum wage, but nothing more.
Brakes jobs, normally considred "gravy" aren't even worth doing at Firestone because of the absurd labor times.
To make money at Firestone, you'd better have a steady supply of suspension work and alignments. Normally those jobs will go to a particularly "special" tech, while everyone else can keep making minimum wage doing oil changes and tires that pay .3 or .6.
I found working at Firestone to be downright demoralizing. Long 50hr work weeks at minimum wage; I'm so glad I got out while I could.
Firestone's guarantee will ensure you make minimum wage, but nothing more.
Brakes jobs, normally considred "gravy" aren't even worth doing at Firestone because of the absurd labor times.
To make money at Firestone, you'd better have a steady supply of suspension work and alignments. Normally those jobs will go to a particularly "special" tech, while everyone else can keep making minimum wage doing oil changes and tires that pay .3 or .6.
I found working at Firestone to be downright demoralizing. Long 50hr work weeks at minimum wage; I'm so glad I got out while I could.
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What's this? #9 REBUTTAL Individual responds
pay
AUTHOR: jerry - (United States of America)
SUBMITTED: Friday, August 12, 2011
Ive worked at dealerships for years. they do pay good for customer pay work .most work is warrenty .Which pays way less .hers an example put a long block in a vehicle warrenty payed 6 hrs book time was 11.5 .so whos screwing who? I dont agree with firestones pay for core services either.
Also I am not a service manage Im a tech I usually beat book time sometimes I dont . At times flat rate sucks .But if the shop you iwork at is busy you can make good money.If you want to get paid by the Hour find another profession!
Firestone pays 70% of your clock hrs which is about 30 hrs for 50 hr week..Most places just pay your flag hrs How would you like getting paid 15 or 20 hrs for a weeks worh of work..
Also I am not a service manage Im a tech I usually beat book time sometimes I dont . At times flat rate sucks .But if the shop you iwork at is busy you can make good money.If you want to get paid by the Hour find another profession!
Firestone pays 70% of your clock hrs which is about 30 hrs for 50 hr week..Most places just pay your flag hrs How would you like getting paid 15 or 20 hrs for a weeks worh of work..
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What's this? #10 UPDATE EX-employee responds
It has nothing to do with "working faster".
AUTHOR: BOB - (USA)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, August 09, 2011
Why is it that people that cannot read the very first post on this issue?
These issues with Firestone have nothing to do with techs working too slow.
Firestone does NOT pay acceptable labor times. A prime example is how they only want to pay you .6hrs to mount and balance 4 tires. Or how about .8 for a complete brake job (including machining the rotors).
The dealer I work for now will pay us 1.6hrs for 4 tires. Complete brake jobs will pay upwards of around 2.0hrs if the rotors are machined.
So, if I change 4 tires and do a brake job at this dealer, I get paid 3.6hrs. At Firestone, this same work would pay me 1.4hrs; LESS THAN HALF!!!!!!!
This is why you can work yourself silly at Firestone and still only take home minimum wage. If the economy ever comes back around, I will guarantee you that no tech worth his weight in salt will choose to work for Firestone.
Firestone is a SCAM to technicians, plain and simple.
These issues with Firestone have nothing to do with techs working too slow.
Firestone does NOT pay acceptable labor times. A prime example is how they only want to pay you .6hrs to mount and balance 4 tires. Or how about .8 for a complete brake job (including machining the rotors).
The dealer I work for now will pay us 1.6hrs for 4 tires. Complete brake jobs will pay upwards of around 2.0hrs if the rotors are machined.
So, if I change 4 tires and do a brake job at this dealer, I get paid 3.6hrs. At Firestone, this same work would pay me 1.4hrs; LESS THAN HALF!!!!!!!
This is why you can work yourself silly at Firestone and still only take home minimum wage. If the economy ever comes back around, I will guarantee you that no tech worth his weight in salt will choose to work for Firestone.
Firestone is a SCAM to technicians, plain and simple.
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What's this? #11 UPDATE EX-employee responds
me43 here-again
AUTHOR: Bill d - (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, July 30, 2011
this goes out to the "managers" here who say us people who dont turn hours just complain and are slow-------first off you lazy pieces of s*it!!----the first time you do something does it not take some time--you do the same job again-does it not take a little faster--and so on----now--with this thought----give me a timing belt on a dodge one day--it takes me hours--give me a timing belt on a mazda the next day--it takes hours----now--cause i work at tire kingdom(i use to work at firestone-so same thing) how many people are comin in lookin for tim ing belts at firestone?!?!?!--not much---timing belts can pay up to 8 hours and if you do it a few times--it takes much less-----now---me----i have been called slow by my mangaer now---he blames me for my paycheck----funny--i worked at another tire kingdom store and consistently made 1200 every 2 weeks--now i am at 900------he says my reduction of pay is cause i am slow!!!!!------so with this----to all these dumb ass service mangers---f you-----maybe if you managers knew how to sell work(which i admit is not easy) i might be as slow as i can be and make a paycheck!!!!!!!------also kind of funny cause for me-95% of the time--i get it done right the first time----but i guess you guys want someone to rush to get the car in and out with tires--or brakes--you know--basic things that dont take long!!!!!!!!!------in any case--it pisses me off you mangers come on here and say complainers are just slow---i would be considered a complainer to you---even if i just do the oil changes--i write up what needs to be done----90% of the time--the car needs something---all the time what do we ever hear from our service manager--JUST CHANGE THE OIL AND GET IT OUT----if you sold work i might make a check---like my manger now------no--i do not talk on the phone all day!!!!--but i have seen these people and there are some like that--that do nothing all day and complain---but me--i work and i do my job---and it is hard for me to do service work cause i have a manger who dooesnt make any attempt it seems------where i am at now it is overcrowded---at tire kingdom there is tire techs and mechanics---when i worked at firestone--it seemed everyone was equal and got the same thing-----tire techs are paid hourly--i am flat rate--3 ase's---------it seems the mangers maniupulate there checks by giving the brake jobs(my primary duties) to the tire tech so he doesnt have to pay him 23$--he pays 3$---------------------this does not mean ALL service mangers are bad either--------final points
1--service mangers: sell work!!!!!!
2--i worked at firestone and have posted on this thread--read my past experience at firestone if you wish
3--tire kingdom is worse--if you are a good worker--you can do good at firestone(providing you are at a good store---same as tire kingdom)----------it seems everywhere is the same--just duschbag managers on a power trip and make peoples lives hell----tell the hard workin employees that it is there fault they arent makin a paycheck cause they are slow when it is there lack of any fuc%in effort----somethin to think about
1--service mangers: sell work!!!!!!
2--i worked at firestone and have posted on this thread--read my past experience at firestone if you wish
3--tire kingdom is worse--if you are a good worker--you can do good at firestone(providing you are at a good store---same as tire kingdom)----------it seems everywhere is the same--just duschbag managers on a power trip and make peoples lives hell----tell the hard workin employees that it is there fault they arent makin a paycheck cause they are slow when it is there lack of any fuc%in effort----somethin to think about
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What's this? #12 UPDATE Employee
you miss the point
AUTHOR: 36106 - (United States of America)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, July 30, 2011
My contention is this...
I would rather be on the schedule for 30 hours, and continue my average of 38 hours in that 30 hour span,
then
be on the schedule for 50 hours
so those who think the "complainers" are lazy, please stfu.
me not wanting to spend 50 hours at Firestone a week has NOTHING to do with how much i can or cant turn. but everything to do with- I rather just work 30 hours, and do my usual 38 flag then spend 50hours there. so piss off.
I would rather be on the schedule for 30 hours, and continue my average of 38 hours in that 30 hour span,
then
be on the schedule for 50 hours
so those who think the "complainers" are lazy, please stfu.
me not wanting to spend 50 hours at Firestone a week has NOTHING to do with how much i can or cant turn. but everything to do with- I rather just work 30 hours, and do my usual 38 flag then spend 50hours there. so piss off.
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What's this? #13 UPDATE Employee
flat rate pay
AUTHOR: jerry - (United States of America)
SUBMITTED: Thursday, July 21, 2011
How long does it take to turn 35 hrs.Most good techs can do i in 20 to 25 hrs .so what did you do the other 25 hrs you were at work Goof off ,mess with your car etc.Do you think you should get paid for that ?If you cant turn more the 35 hrs a week your a crappy tech.Ive worked in a lot of difffrent places including dealerships .which suck by the way .The Techs that complain the most about hrs are usually slow or just plain suck.If you dont like it do something else theres other places hiring like mcdonalds for instance .their allways looking for slow ass lazy people .Then you can complain about taking home 100 bucks a week for 40 hrs .Get over it or find another career
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What's this?
Believers in flat rate will claim you get paid for eveything you do. The truth is flat rate is used to manipulate your pay to the piont where you can litteraly work yourself silly all day long and still not even break even in terms of hours worked vs hours actually compensated for.
Places like Firestone are well aware of this, and have exploited this to no end. It is disgraceful.
How else is a company going to mandate 50+ hr work weeks and not have to pay you overtime, or even regular time?
How else is a company going to have you running around all day doing nit-pick jobs that pay .4 or .6 only to have you lose money at the end of the day?
Make no mistake; they want you on the premises performing labor, but they don't want to compensate you for your time spent there.
Complains about this will only result in claims that you should "work faster", or "work harder". Usually this statement is said by someone in a managerial position who is salaried and gets paid the same regardless of how much work they actually do.
But to answer the question...if you work 50hrs and flag 35, you don't get ONE SINGLE DIME more than your base rate x 35. Some claim this is fine, but if you're working hard all day, this is called working for FREE.
Places like Firestone are well aware of this, and have exploited this to no end. It is disgraceful.
How else is a company going to mandate 50+ hr work weeks and not have to pay you overtime, or even regular time?
How else is a company going to have you running around all day doing nit-pick jobs that pay .4 or .6 only to have you lose money at the end of the day?
Make no mistake; they want you on the premises performing labor, but they don't want to compensate you for your time spent there.
Complains about this will only result in claims that you should "work faster", or "work harder". Usually this statement is said by someone in a managerial position who is salaried and gets paid the same regardless of how much work they actually do.
But to answer the question...if you work 50hrs and flag 35, you don't get ONE SINGLE DIME more than your base rate x 35. Some claim this is fine, but if you're working hard all day, this is called working for FREE.
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What's this? #15 UPDATE Employee
Just the facts or what not
AUTHOR: 36106 - (United States of America)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, June 18, 2011
SO simply put my question would be this.
I understand that 50 hours is "full time"
I understand that they either pay you 30 hours times your hourly rate
--or--
THey pay you flag time, times your hourly rate- whichever is greater.
For arguments sake your hourly is $10 you flag 35 hours, your pay would be $350. What happens to the other hours between 35 and 50? are you really working for free, or do they simply pay you minimum wage for those 15 hours instead of your regular?
I.e with the example would your paycheck be
$350
--or--
$458
Because yes, having talked with shop foremen from well diesel shops (which is likely different methods for paying anyway) but, some give base plus commission, where commission is a percentage of the labor charge charged to the customer- hence at 10% commission, and a $300 labor charge, you would get hourly + $30 or other shops work you for 40 hours, and pay you 40 times your hourly rate period.
I understand that 50 hours is "full time"
I understand that they either pay you 30 hours times your hourly rate
--or--
THey pay you flag time, times your hourly rate- whichever is greater.
For arguments sake your hourly is $10 you flag 35 hours, your pay would be $350. What happens to the other hours between 35 and 50? are you really working for free, or do they simply pay you minimum wage for those 15 hours instead of your regular?
I.e with the example would your paycheck be
$350
--or--
$458
Because yes, having talked with shop foremen from well diesel shops (which is likely different methods for paying anyway) but, some give base plus commission, where commission is a percentage of the labor charge charged to the customer- hence at 10% commission, and a $300 labor charge, you would get hourly + $30 or other shops work you for 40 hours, and pay you 40 times your hourly rate period.
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What's this? #16 UPDATE Employee
propaganda
AUTHOR: simplyautomatic - (United States of America)
SUBMITTED: Monday, June 13, 2011
I am a service manager at a firestone store in Florida and to you Mike I say prove it. Where is your proof that this happened? Your word? I used to be a tech before I got promoted and averaged 60 flag hours working 50 hours a week. Once again I average 60 flag hours clocking 50 in a given week. Most weeks I was closer to 70 flag hours and when business was booming was up in the high 80's low 90's. I was also classified by firestone as a C tech. So what do you have to say to that Mike? Unfortunately you had a bad expierence and it sounds like the store manager you had tried to take advantage of you. Firestone is one the better, if not the best corporate store to work for as a technician. You have the most potential to flag hours, get training, advance in the company, and make yourself a nice career. I've worked for Tire Kingdom, ive worked for Goodyear, my good friened works for Pep Boys. Goodyear and Pep boys send you home after 40 hours. That might what some people like but I was raised and taught that a full work week was at least 50 hours. I grew up in an independant shop where NO ONE was flat rate. I've seen the pros and cons of flat rate and just hourly associates. If you had to call the district manager to get paid then that means the store manager was not doing his job and took advantage of you and that Mike is not ok. Firestone is very customer orriented. To the point where you can prove the customer wrong and have them apologize for acting a fool and the company will still take care of that customer right or wrong just so they know we have their back. We use mitchell labor guides as I have three binders under my sales counter that came directly from Mitchell themselves which is the time we go by. Go work for Tire Kingdom Mike and enjoy working flat rate for a company who makes their technicians actually work for free. Show me proof Mike and you might make me a believer but I am calling BS and am calling you out as an employee not just for firestone but in your career. How manyt jobs do you have on your resume? I am 25 and have had 3 jobs and my third is the one i am still working at. I started working when I was 14 and busted my a$$ to get where im at and will defend my company until they show me I have no reason too. They have been faithful to me and have taken care of me. So prove Mike Macon. Because I have proof that this company does take care of their employees.
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What's this? #17 UPDATE Employee
They don't call it "flat rape" for nothing.
AUTHOR: Joe - (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, June 08, 2011
I can confirm that Firestone does not pay the correct labor times. Where I am now, they are scheduling me for 50hr work weeks and a typical flag time for the week is 35 to 40 hrs, sometimes even less.
They pay a whopping .1 do to a "courtesy check" on every car. They give you 6 whole minutes to do this check, but it takes longer than that just to fill out all their BS paperwork. In fact their paperwork is out of control. Micking the rotors during every tire rotation, what a waste of time. DOT #'s need to be written down for every tire you change, "double signoffs", it just never stops.
Don't get me wrong, I've had some decent checks, but I still haven't been able to beat the clock. Some will claim I'm too slow, but again, they don't pay the right times.
For all the BS, they won't even let you work on your own vehicle inside the shop. Not without charging you for your own labor anyway.
And don't even get me started on how badly they screw their customers.
To anyone reading this, you can do better than Firestone Complete Auto Care.
They pay a whopping .1 do to a "courtesy check" on every car. They give you 6 whole minutes to do this check, but it takes longer than that just to fill out all their BS paperwork. In fact their paperwork is out of control. Micking the rotors during every tire rotation, what a waste of time. DOT #'s need to be written down for every tire you change, "double signoffs", it just never stops.
Don't get me wrong, I've had some decent checks, but I still haven't been able to beat the clock. Some will claim I'm too slow, but again, they don't pay the right times.
For all the BS, they won't even let you work on your own vehicle inside the shop. Not without charging you for your own labor anyway.
And don't even get me started on how badly they screw their customers.
To anyone reading this, you can do better than Firestone Complete Auto Care.
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What's this?
Firestone dosnt pay book time for core services brakes ,alignments etc .Neither does most any one else except dealers
Ive wored at a dealership for 10 years and never made the hours I make at firestone.they may pay more for brakes but they make up for it with warrenty work which is nearly 75% of what you do.
I know of another tire stoe that only pays .32 for 4 tires and does not pay for cc or cvi.Nor do they pay for break checks. So yeah everyplace has it good and bad points and in my experince firestone is not that bad .If you do your job and stop complaing you may turn more hours
Ive wored at a dealership for 10 years and never made the hours I make at firestone.they may pay more for brakes but they make up for it with warrenty work which is nearly 75% of what you do.
I know of another tire stoe that only pays .32 for 4 tires and does not pay for cc or cvi.Nor do they pay for break checks. So yeah everyplace has it good and bad points and in my experince firestone is not that bad .If you do your job and stop complaing you may turn more hours
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What's this? #19 General Comment
Flat Rate
AUTHOR: FredS - (United States of America)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, May 21, 2011
As a 25 year dealership technician your problem with flat rate is a universal one. Everyone ignores the book time and cuts the technicians rate, then take a look and the difference is added onto the parts, more profit for the company, and an added incentive for the tech to step it up a notch to make a paycheck. I quit working for dealers when the cost of tools needed to make your time exceeded what I perceived a fair deal. The rates quoted in later rebuttals equal about what our warranty rates have been cut to. So I can only assume Firestone is using the warranty labor rates so they can remain competitive. The automotive repair industry goes through what is best described as an industry wide shake-up every few years, the rates are good, it fills the empty technician slots, they cut the rates, and the techs leave for other fields of employment. When you go in a new place, negotiate your pay just like a contract, if it does not look fair at first, it will only look worse with time.
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What's this? #20 REBUTTAL Owner of company
You can't spell.
AUTHOR: real tech - (United States of America)
SUBMITTED: Friday, January 28, 2011
MAP Idiot
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What's this? #21 General Comment
TO ALL FIRESTONE MANAGERS
AUTHOR: real tech - (United States of America)
SUBMITTED: Friday, January 28, 2011
THE EX EMPLOYEE IS RIGHT THE FLAG TIME THEIR IS CRAZY I TELL ALL MY COSTOMERS TO STAY AWAY DO U WANT A TECH THAT HAS TO RUSH THROUGH ONE JOB AND THE NEXT AND THE NEXT WORKING ON UR CARE CARELESSLY? I KNOW MANY TECHS WHO HAVE WORKED THEIR ( DONT ANYMORE). SO WHATIF I CAN DO A BRAKE JOB IN 35 45 MINUTES I WANT TO BE PAID FOR IT (2 HRS). I OWN MY OWN SHOP AND VALUE MY TECHS THE R PAID CORRECT FIRESTONE DOES NOT AND THATS THE BOTTOM LINE. I HAVE HAD MANY IRATE COSTOMERS COME FROM FIRESTONE NOT WANTING TO FIX WHAT THEY HAVE MESSED UP AND ONE IN PARTICULAR THAT SHETALIKED TO FIRESTONE CLAIMS AND THEY SAID THEY WOULD PAY 2 HRS DIAG TIME TO DIAG THE CAR THAT FIRESTONE MESSED UP WELL ITS DONE AND I CANNOT GET INTOUCH WITH ANYONE TO GET PAID NO ONE WILL CALL ME BACK ANYWAY IF U R A MANAGER THEIR YOU ARE A LOOSER WHO COULD NOT MAKE IT AS A TECH OR MAKE A CARRIER ANYWHERE ELSE FOR THAT MATTER YOU ARE THEIR CAUSE YOU ARE STUCK LMAO.
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What's this? #22 UPDATE EX-employee responds
Firestone is a ripoff to technicians and consumers
AUTHOR: fastpitch - (United States of America)
SUBMITTED: Friday, January 28, 2011
Firestone Complete Autocare is a complete ripoff.Not only to the technicians they hire but to the consumer! They do not pay book time to techs! Not even close! But they do take the consumer for a expensive ride to make the numbers that corprate whats to see! The store managers are pushed to make goals whatever it takes or be replaced. This is done by a matrix system on parts that is unbelievable. The consumer could buy parts themselves at auto parts store for half the price. So they really hose the customer on mark ups. The techs get paid peanuts ! they trll you you will make decent money paided book times per mitchell. That is a big crock of bs! They feed off of the consumers that pay the high prices!And as far as paying the techs well. That is the biggest joke I have seen in 20 plus yrs as a tech! If you want to pay alot for a repair by a tech that is forced to get it done fast! Cuz it is all about the money! Which by the way you will end up having to go back because something was not done right go to Firestone.
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What's this?
i am sorry i forgot your name here---you make a good point--i also worked for dealers and they pay 1 hour to do pads-just pads---and .5 to cut each rotor-being 1 hour to cut rotors---firestone also uses cheapy auto zone parts for a cheap price(the pads)--sometimes they are less than 40$-also depends on the car----now--in all fairness--you did leave out the .3 they pay for the brake inspection--so in all fairness you get 1.1 for brakes--not.8----however--this still does not make it better---many times--cause of the cheap pads--i would have to re do the job(re cut the rotors) cause the dumbass customer has a tiny little squeak at 2 mph when backing up--which isn't a big deal-just a noise-but people are dumb in this respect---how many times did i have to re cut rotors for free to oblige these dumb f%*s!!!!--let's njot forget that
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What's this? #24 UPDATE Employee
taken advantage of
AUTHOR: td70 - (United States of America)
SUBMITTED: Monday, May 24, 2010
well i find that the people coming up with these times dont have to worry about ithurting them because in the big picture it helps them. Let s say it cost 149.99 for a front brake job, it cost ,on avg, $40 for a set of pads ok now we are one to 109.99 now you pay your tech .8 which in my case is 14.40 now the profit is 95.59.If they would go by the flat rate time i would make, on avg. 1.8 flat rate hours at 32.40 and would be much happier. I have been doing this for almost 20 years and have worked at many places this is the first place to cut labor times.most dealerships pay their techs 2.0 for a standard brake job and they seem to continue to stay in business why is that, and why is it that firestone has such a big turn around in techs?
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What's this? #25 UPDATE Employee
flat rate and firestone rate
AUTHOR: td70 - (United States of America)
SUBMITTED: Monday, May 24, 2010
i have found that after all the questions on why firestone doesnt follow mitchell flat rate time and have come up with their own, they still cant not give me a straight answer. yes those mechanics making all that time are also short cutting and only recommending those jobs that will make him money, after he has learned the system. I cant seem to understnad why it is that firestone only wants to pay .8 to do a brake job (turn rotors,replace brake pads, clean and lube slides , when mitchell states .8 to replace pads and .5 additional each rotor machined. The answer i have heard so many times is well how long does it take you to do it. Well its not how long it takes me its how long the job is supposed to be payed by industry standards, that have been used for longer then i have been alive. so if you really feel that you can beat the fate rate time with out cutting corners then come work for firestone , but i would highly suggest looking else where for employment, some where where it is honest and they look out for their technicians and not just a number game and the distric managers bonus, yea he gets a bonus on the profits and by paying the techs the correct amount it cuts into his bonus and profit.
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What's this?
I have been a store manager with Firestone for the last ten years. I am not sure which store Chuck works in but he needs to get his facts straight insted of bashing people on the internet. The labor times that are used for their "core" services such a basic brakes and flushes are set by Firestone. A committee of managers, district and zone personel, and senior techs (I question how many) set these times. The times that are looked up such as tie rods are from the major labor guides. In response to Mike, the more experienced techs with good time management tend to do well in my store. If the store and service manager will work with the newbies they will not starve but it will take some time to become productive. I understand that a good many managers will throw newbies to the wolves to fend for themselves. I realized a long time ago that if my techs are making good money and happy that means that my customers are being taken care of and in turn I am making money and happy. Although I do not agree with some of the labor times, and the long hours can be hell, it is possible to make good money. And by the way Chuck, good luck making the step up to store manager, with your bad attitude and people skills its going to be tough.
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What's this? #27 UPDATE EX-employee responds
certain stores-certain people-different
AUTHOR: Bill d - (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Sunday, January 31, 2010
i see these service managers talking about people bveing slow--this may be true--and in some cases(different stores) people make there times---but there are not many capable managers--where i was at--i got all the oil changes and tires--i had to move faster to get these things done--i had a tire manager-where i would try to sell services such as transmission and coolant(cause the fluid looked bad)-this tire manger would come out(after i handed him the ticket with the recommendations) and look at the tires(in good condition) and sell the tires cause he didn't make a commision on services i guess---most of my work involved doing tires and alignments--but again--you are underpaid on the tire times--maybe these other stores aren't tires all day but services and actual mechanic work that pay a better time---also-what if you got low profile tires which required more time to remove and let alone put on--they still paid the .3 for 1 and .4 for 2 exc exc---once i did get them to pay me .5 for it--also if the tire had a tpm they were suppose to pay an additional .2 to remove the monitor which i never saw--i brought it up but was dismissed on the issue--the managers can pay you what they want to pay you(from my experience)--the point--different shops are run by different people and hence different places--the one i worked at was run by a bad person(who was the tire manger and became store manager)--he also played favoritism--when i first started there-2 days into it--i was balancing a tire--in which the wheel was bent to s h i t--before i started there was many wheel weights on the wheel--i remove all weights before i start the balance and just rebalance--in any case--i had to keep adding weight to it--he saw me-and saw it had like 4 different wheel weights on it and started bitching to me that i am not doing it right and i do not know what i am doing cause there should only be 1 weight on the wheel--i told him the wheel was bent and he said it didn't matter--i also told him the wheel had all this weight on it before i started balancing--he had nothing to say but just there should only be one weight and "you do not know what your doing"--until the manger came out and heard the argument and proved him wrong--there was another time i was putting on a low profile tire and of course i was passed 40psi to seat the bead--he came out and started bitching that i can't go past 40 psi and once again the comments of "you do not know what your doing" came into play--this is also they guy who would sell tires(going against my recommandations for services that were actually needed) that were not needed--so we can imagine what happened when he became the store manager--he started playing favorites with the 65 year old man that everyone felt bad for--i would recommend services--look at cars--and he would schedule them to come back on my day off--in some cases i have seen people come back a couple days later for the service i recommended and he would give the ticket to this person--the point--most people are d*** s--but i will agree--i may have made the hours i was there for if they paid the proper time
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What's this? #28 UPDATE Employee
New Employee
AUTHOR: lolBSFSripoffmechanics - (United States of America)
SUBMITTED: Friday, December 18, 2009
I recently moved to a new state. I selected Firestone as the company I wanted to work for, they are widespread and reputable, so in chance i have to move again I could possibly transfer and not have to give up vaca or 401K. Well as far as the company is concerned I feel they have some very good guidelines, ethics, and policies. I don't feel their times are that bad. The M.A.P. guidlines they want us to follow is one of the best things to happen to the auto repair industry in a long time. A.S.E. is a joke we all know that master ASE tech who cant fix a thing. MAP is far superior to ASE if MAP came out with certifications I would get them in a heartbeat.
The individual store I have been placed in however has their own idea of how things should work. I have some sereouse issues with fraud. I personally think it is wrong to sell someone a brake job and not turn the rotors if it is part of the description of the job sold, regardless of wether the time for the job suports the time it takes or not. That is an issue we all need to take up with firestone, not take out on the customers wallets. See I see guys do this in my shop all the time I was advised to do it this way if i wanted to make money or just say the car needs rotors. I have a problem with saying that you did work to a car that you did not. For instance the TPMS kits that are sold on tickets with tire pr. monitors that no one installs. So what if its a 2-3 dollar part. Firestone requires that you install them and the customer payed for it, and you are getting payed for it. When you say you did and you didnt it is STEALING. No acceptions. This is the problem with our industry. This is why mechanics have such a bad reputation.
The other problem i have with this store is work distribution. I have 11 years experience as an automechanic and I have always been a very productive tech. When i have worked flat rate i was generally at 130%+ productivity. This store saw my work ethic, and they liked me so much here that when they found out I was as good as i am they pleaded to have me stay in this location instead of moving to the new store that is due to be opened in a few months I was actually hired to fill a position at. They wanted me to be their lead Tech.
Shortly after I had been working there they made a position change and hired another tech back. I instantly noticed favortism in the way work was beeing distributed. I essentially became the tire buster with waiter 4 tire jobs on my hook all day long. Not much diag work or anything that might a little better chance of upselling hours on. Or I watch them feed this guy 3+ cars at any given time regardless of wether other people in the shop have work or not. I have been jobless a number of times while they continually hand this guy work. I hadn't payed it any mind untill one day i looked at my sad 31 hours in 4 days and my standing up front waiting for work and the writer came out with a ticket asked who he should give it to it was a 4 tire LP/LD ticked with an LOF and it was a waiter. I had nothing to work on and I said "I'll do it". The writer then turned to this guy who was already working on a car and handed him the ticket.
The individual store I have been placed in however has their own idea of how things should work. I have some sereouse issues with fraud. I personally think it is wrong to sell someone a brake job and not turn the rotors if it is part of the description of the job sold, regardless of wether the time for the job suports the time it takes or not. That is an issue we all need to take up with firestone, not take out on the customers wallets. See I see guys do this in my shop all the time I was advised to do it this way if i wanted to make money or just say the car needs rotors. I have a problem with saying that you did work to a car that you did not. For instance the TPMS kits that are sold on tickets with tire pr. monitors that no one installs. So what if its a 2-3 dollar part. Firestone requires that you install them and the customer payed for it, and you are getting payed for it. When you say you did and you didnt it is STEALING. No acceptions. This is the problem with our industry. This is why mechanics have such a bad reputation.
The other problem i have with this store is work distribution. I have 11 years experience as an automechanic and I have always been a very productive tech. When i have worked flat rate i was generally at 130%+ productivity. This store saw my work ethic, and they liked me so much here that when they found out I was as good as i am they pleaded to have me stay in this location instead of moving to the new store that is due to be opened in a few months I was actually hired to fill a position at. They wanted me to be their lead Tech.
Shortly after I had been working there they made a position change and hired another tech back. I instantly noticed favortism in the way work was beeing distributed. I essentially became the tire buster with waiter 4 tire jobs on my hook all day long. Not much diag work or anything that might a little better chance of upselling hours on. Or I watch them feed this guy 3+ cars at any given time regardless of wether other people in the shop have work or not. I have been jobless a number of times while they continually hand this guy work. I hadn't payed it any mind untill one day i looked at my sad 31 hours in 4 days and my standing up front waiting for work and the writer came out with a ticket asked who he should give it to it was a 4 tire LP/LD ticked with an LOF and it was a waiter. I had nothing to work on and I said "I'll do it". The writer then turned to this guy who was already working on a car and handed him the ticket.
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What's this?
At my two-year point, I was making 18 an hour 0 ASE's now after transferring from Audi to VW I make 21 an hour with no ASE's.( I actually have five I just have not told them Their is know point ASE'S wont change my pay) The only bad thing is I am second to the bottom in pay. He makes 16 an hour.
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What's this? #30 UPDATE Employee
Firestone flag time
AUTHOR: Gtray7 - (United States of America)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, December 09, 2009
Your particular situation sounds like a problem relating to a specific store or store manager. Employees are not allowed to work until they have been "on-boarded." This is company policy. Unfortunately many new hires are so eager to work and show that they deserved to be hired that they fail to realize what can happen if they are allowed "get right to work." Firestone has strict policies regarding the new hire process and are meant to be followed absolutely.
As far as the flag time compared to Mitchell time is concerned it is true that Firestone's listed times can vary from the stated labor guides. Alignment services begin at 1.2 on the first service which is meant to be done correctly at all four wheels. This includes setting camber, caster, and toe. The follow up rechecks on the Lifetime alignment service do pay .8 because they are meant to be follow up maintenance. If you also pay attention to the details in the Mitchell guide you'd notice that for jobs like replacing tie rod ends the labor to set the toe is included in the repair for most vehicles. I would be willing to bet that for each tie rod end you did you got an additional .8 to reset the toe if the customer had an LTA (LifeTime Alignment) or 1.2 for the new alignment service.
Firestone has a system in place that can be very lucrative for the right minded tech who can move quickly and earn his pay doing an honest job. You must know how to work their process. How many times did you suggest a CVI out of a CC? How many light bulbs did you recommend? how many dirty air filters did you find? How many wiper blades did you suggest? Did you actually inspect the fluids in the car or just suggest the services due to mileage?Were your inspections quality or were they all rubber stamped from the mileage of the vehicle? Clock punchers and penny-pinchers have no place in a maintenance shop and will always, without fail, walk away thinking they're getting the short end of the stick.
Ray
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What's this? #31 UPDATE Employee
Underpaid?
AUTHOR: PH3NOM3NON03 - (United States of America)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, December 01, 2009
i was kinda wondering i am getting screwed i have worked for firestone now for almost 2yrs and have not recieved a raise? i am a very hard worker i do have 2 ase's .. better than none and work on cars all day long and then when were slow i do gs work... constantly busy so i can have a fair paycheck when i know the ecomony is in a turnpike but still kinda hits home ... i am making 10 dollars and hour flat rate... does that seem right because it doesnt to me.... i have asked for a raise a few times and the manager keeps saying that district has to approve it... is this right? i work 60 clock hours and typically flag 60 to 75 hrs unless were dead then its about 35 flag but still clocking 60 and to be honest some of the things we do like alignments .... aka lifetime alignments first time buyee's .... it pays 1.2 flag then .8 there after how is that right especially if you werent the first person to do it in the first place or the customer did there own balljoints tie rods etc. and brings it in all hacked out of alignmernt and takes you an hour and half cause allot of rust and having to use the torch loosen nuts so on so forth. or even getting not paid for turning rotors with the on the car brake lathe? kinda odd to me ... some days i hate it and some days i love it ... i just dont get some of there pay scales for labor times. like .1 for a courtesy check which in fact is 6 minutes to check the tires .. pressures ... tread depths ... any unusual wear ... belts hose's check over the brake fluid if its contaminated ... air filter... lights... wiper blades.. oil levels ... the coolant viscosity... its so hard to have the right mind when you think about all the things your not getting paid for and you hear of dealers paying their techs well for the work ... i mean i do like working for firestone because of all the friends you make on the job and the people you meet but when i have a kid and trying to feed 3 of us its hard... i dont mean any of this negative to anyone who works for a firestone/bridgestone branch i just feel im getting underpaid and the manager and is not doing a good job for the shop.
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What's this? #32 UPDATE Employee
You are a sorry Tech
AUTHOR: chuck - (USA)
SUBMITTED: Thursday, October 01, 2009
I guess its a matter of knowing what you are doing. I am currently a service manager of Firestone in a very productive store. I have 8 techs who all flag no less than 60 hours per week when working 40-45. I have had many people like you come and go in my shop. YOU ARE A WHINER! You sit back and watch everyone work while you slouch and go slow, hence making no money. You are a wanna be tech who very well may have skill, but absolutely no speed. Before you run your pie hole on the internet, try coming to my shop and put yourself to work. My shop absolutely goes by alldata and mitchell. Please consider yourself called a liar because you are.
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What's this? #33 UPDATE EX-employee responds
i agree
AUTHOR: Bill d - (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, September 22, 2009
i also am a former employee of firestone in the south florida miami district area---i shall agree that they do not pay the proper flat rate times---i was there for 50 hours a week and the most i clocked was 40(because they paid b.s. times)--i was by far the 2nd most productive in the shop(by car count)--i know how to do the trans services-coolant-belts--all the basics--brakes--but with me being a new comer--and had experience at a dealer before hand-for 1--i knew there times were under and 2 apparently i was desired to work there--when i got hired he wanted to pay me 12 an hour flat rate-i found another job at the same time at a dealer and told this manger i would not work here(as i preferred a dealer)--then he offered me 14 an hour flat rate--i thought this would be the s h i t----in time i found out 14 an hour means 11.60 an hour--in some cases 9 an hour(on a slow week)--9 an hour with no overtime pay---again--i was there for around 50 hours a week and could not clock past 40 cause there times were to low----it did seem to me that they only person making money there was the master tech as they give him the work---me as the new comer-i got all the oil changes and tires/alignments---they also completely under pay for tires--i mean .6 for 4 tires---the dealers i have worked at paid .5 a tire--i called another dealer and they pay .3 per tire---so how do you get paid .3 for 1 tire- .4 for 2-.5 for 3 and .6 for 4??--what sense does this make--any dealer will pay you over an hour for 4 tires!!!!----this is also another reason i could not make the time i was there for---i busted my ace for under pay--and again--i was the 2nd most productive in car count a the other new comers were very slow--i would bet them by 15-20 flag hours per week---so i do not feel as they i don't know what i am doing and am slow--being on flat rate you learn time management--such as changing oil while changing tires--even with my time management skills it was almost impossible to make 50 hours--i made the 50 hours once out of the 1 year i worked there---i also had to rely on a tire manager who only got commisions for selling tires to sell service work which pays better--i would recommend service work--he would come out-look at the tires(in good condition) and say it needs tires-then he would sell the tires----in time he turned into a store manager and of course there was problems---in any case---i did take them to arbitration and got paid for some of this overtime i felt i deserved---with all this though--and this is sad---firestone screws you on flat rate time--and do not pay you overtime---i was a good worker and performed a lot of work--my checks were roughly 500 a week--and the sad part is--this is the best job i have had--after i left--my pay has declined by going from place to place--i though i could do better--apparently-there is places crappier than firestone--and with me---i have trouble getting my ase's--the test are horrible---i have 5 years experience and 2 years as an aircraft mechanic in the air force--i know a thing or 2---i have done timing belts-engine removals,transmissions, and other "hardcore" mechanic work---so now here i am in this bad economy making a whopping 9 dollars an hour to do master tech work---i must get ase's in order for me to advance in this field---in the meantime--firestone sadly was the best paying job---my advice---to newcomers--work at firestine--but do not expect a lot--and learn all you can--they only way to advance in this field is to learn and do your job and others--aka being the shop b i t ch ---at least if you fail and f something up at firsetone and get fired--it really isn't a big deal
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What's this? #34 UPDATE EX-employee responds
i half-way agree
AUTHOR: Kevin - (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Sunday, April 12, 2009
i am an ASE master who has many issues with firestone flatrate. to be fair i made pretty good money at firestone, but i cant imagine what i should have made if i was paid real-times! for example: .8 to r&r rotors, turn them on a lathe, lube slides, install new pads. mitchell time is as follows r&r rotors 1.0, turn rotors .5 for one and .3 for each additional (and that does not include removal), the r&r rotors does include install new pads if needed. that means firestone pays less than half to the tech. do they pass the savings on, yeah right. and if new rotors are installed you still lose .2!!!!! and that is a slide on (hat) rotor dont get me started on a bearing repack!!!! the said fact is there is no regulations protecting techs on flatrate, any company can pay you whatever they want. i have worked from tire shops to the dealers and have yet to see consistant times on anything. and thats not against firestone thats against the industry! i was fired for arguing the times and i said some things i should not have (no threats just profannity and not in front of any customers). i would like to note i did enjoy working for firestone but their times are way off. i also would like to note that i never had a write up and recently received a raise from 15.50 to 17.25 so obviously i wasn't a bad employee. to consumers.... all real shops upcharge parts from the local parts house so learn to do it yourslf or deal with it, nobody made you buy a $20 rotor for $69.95 i disagree wth how much firestone up charges i think it should be a 100% markup at most ($40). my point is there are good and bad anywhere for employees and consumers so do your homework and dont get mad if you got overcharged or under paid (in your personal opinions). it was a choice you made by being under informed so if your going to point fingers point one at yourself!!!!!!!!! I am a disgruntled ex-employee but i try to stay honest and fair.
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What's this? #35 UPDATE EX-employee responds
i half-way agree
AUTHOR: Kevin - (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Sunday, April 12, 2009
i am an ASE master who has many issues with firestone flatrate. to be fair i made pretty good money at firestone, but i cant imagine what i should have made if i was paid real-times! for example: .8 to r&r rotors, turn them on a lathe, lube slides, install new pads. mitchell time is as follows r&r rotors 1.0, turn rotors .5 for one and .3 for each additional (and that does not include removal), the r&r rotors does include install new pads if needed. that means firestone pays less than half to the tech. do they pass the savings on, yeah right. and if new rotors are installed you still lose .2!!!!! and that is a slide on (hat) rotor dont get me started on a bearing repack!!!! the said fact is there is no regulations protecting techs on flatrate, any company can pay you whatever they want. i have worked from tire shops to the dealers and have yet to see consistant times on anything. and thats not against firestone thats against the industry! i was fired for arguing the times and i said some things i should not have (no threats just profannity and not in front of any customers). i would like to note i did enjoy working for firestone but their times are way off. i also would like to note that i never had a write up and recently received a raise from 15.50 to 17.25 so obviously i wasn't a bad employee. to consumers.... all real shops upcharge parts from the local parts house so learn to do it yourslf or deal with it, nobody made you buy a $20 rotor for $69.95 i disagree wth how much firestone up charges i think it should be a 100% markup at most ($40). my point is there are good and bad anywhere for employees and consumers so do your homework and dont get mad if you got overcharged or under paid (in your personal opinions). it was a choice you made by being under informed so if your going to point fingers point one at yourself!!!!!!!!! I am a disgruntled ex-employee but i try to stay honest and fair.
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What's this? #36 UPDATE EX-employee responds
i half-way agree
AUTHOR: Kevin - (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Sunday, April 12, 2009
i am an ASE master who has many issues with firestone flatrate. to be fair i made pretty good money at firestone, but i cant imagine what i should have made if i was paid real-times! for example: .8 to r&r rotors, turn them on a lathe, lube slides, install new pads. mitchell time is as follows r&r rotors 1.0, turn rotors .5 for one and .3 for each additional (and that does not include removal), the r&r rotors does include install new pads if needed. that means firestone pays less than half to the tech. do they pass the savings on, yeah right. and if new rotors are installed you still lose .2!!!!! and that is a slide on (hat) rotor dont get me started on a bearing repack!!!! the said fact is there is no regulations protecting techs on flatrate, any company can pay you whatever they want. i have worked from tire shops to the dealers and have yet to see consistant times on anything. and thats not against firestone thats against the industry! i was fired for arguing the times and i said some things i should not have (no threats just profannity and not in front of any customers). i would like to note i did enjoy working for firestone but their times are way off. i also would like to note that i never had a write up and recently received a raise from 15.50 to 17.25 so obviously i wasn't a bad employee. to consumers.... all real shops upcharge parts from the local parts house so learn to do it yourslf or deal with it, nobody made you buy a $20 rotor for $69.95 i disagree wth how much firestone up charges i think it should be a 100% markup at most ($40). my point is there are good and bad anywhere for employees and consumers so do your homework and dont get mad if you got overcharged or under paid (in your personal opinions). it was a choice you made by being under informed so if your going to point fingers point one at yourself!!!!!!!!! I am a disgruntled ex-employee but i try to stay honest and fair.
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What's this? #37 UPDATE EX-employee responds
i half-way agree
AUTHOR: Kevin - (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Sunday, April 12, 2009
i am an ASE master who has many issues with firestone flatrate. to be fair i made pretty good money at firestone, but i cant imagine what i should have made if i was paid real-times! for example: .8 to r&r rotors, turn them on a lathe, lube slides, install new pads. mitchell time is as follows r&r rotors 1.0, turn rotors .5 for one and .3 for each additional (and that does not include removal), the r&r rotors does include install new pads if needed. that means firestone pays less than half to the tech. do they pass the savings on, yeah right. and if new rotors are installed you still lose .2!!!!! and that is a slide on (hat) rotor dont get me started on a bearing repack!!!! the said fact is there is no regulations protecting techs on flatrate, any company can pay you whatever they want. i have worked from tire shops to the dealers and have yet to see consistant times on anything. and thats not against firestone thats against the industry! i was fired for arguing the times and i said some things i should not have (no threats just profannity and not in front of any customers). i would like to note i did enjoy working for firestone but their times are way off. i also would like to note that i never had a write up and recently received a raise from 15.50 to 17.25 so obviously i wasn't a bad employee. to consumers.... all real shops upcharge parts from the local parts house so learn to do it yourslf or deal with it, nobody made you buy a $20 rotor for $69.95 i disagree wth how much firestone up charges i think it should be a 100% markup at most ($40). my point is there are good and bad anywhere for employees and consumers so do your homework and dont get mad if you got overcharged or under paid (in your personal opinions). it was a choice you made by being under informed so if your going to point fingers point one at yourself!!!!!!!!! I am a disgruntled ex-employee but i try to stay honest and fair.
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What's this? #38 UPDATE EX-employee responds
Flagging
AUTHOR: Ramowner - (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Thursday, March 26, 2009
All my techs month in and month out flag more than they clock, my lead tech is an L1 master tech, his best ratio was 92 flag-58 clock. If you're good then you make the dollars, most people who complain about flat rate are slow techs.
As for overpopulating, I don't see why he would have done that, his back shop payroll would be horrible if his techs were hitting the 30 hour min.
As for overpopulating, I don't see why he would have done that, his back shop payroll would be horrible if his techs were hitting the 30 hour min.
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What's this? #39 UPDATE EX-employee responds
Flagging
AUTHOR: Ramowner - (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Thursday, March 26, 2009
All my techs month in and month out flag more than they clock, my lead tech is an L1 master tech, his best ratio was 92 flag-58 clock. If you're good then you make the dollars, most people who complain about flat rate are slow techs.
As for overpopulating, I don't see why he would have done that, his back shop payroll would be horrible if his techs were hitting the 30 hour min.
As for overpopulating, I don't see why he would have done that, his back shop payroll would be horrible if his techs were hitting the 30 hour min.
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What's this? #40 UPDATE EX-employee responds
Flagging
AUTHOR: Ramowner - (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Thursday, March 26, 2009
All my techs month in and month out flag more than they clock, my lead tech is an L1 master tech, his best ratio was 92 flag-58 clock. If you're good then you make the dollars, most people who complain about flat rate are slow techs.
As for overpopulating, I don't see why he would have done that, his back shop payroll would be horrible if his techs were hitting the 30 hour min.
As for overpopulating, I don't see why he would have done that, his back shop payroll would be horrible if his techs were hitting the 30 hour min.
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What's this? #41 UPDATE EX-employee responds
Flagging
AUTHOR: Ramowner - (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Thursday, March 26, 2009
All my techs month in and month out flag more than they clock, my lead tech is an L1 master tech, his best ratio was 92 flag-58 clock. If you're good then you make the dollars, most people who complain about flat rate are slow techs.
As for overpopulating, I don't see why he would have done that, his back shop payroll would be horrible if his techs were hitting the 30 hour min.
As for overpopulating, I don't see why he would have done that, his back shop payroll would be horrible if his techs were hitting the 30 hour min.
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What's this? #42 UPDATE EX-employee responds
Fill In the blanks...
AUTHOR: Who Knows - (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Thursday, February 19, 2009
What Mr. Mike is saying is somewhat true. There is no doubt stores are all different but I can confirm that their flat rate system is not accurate. First off, on a good note, they do offer a base minumum of thirty hours. Not many automotive repair facilites do. In my opinin flat rate should be against the law. The system generally abuses the majority of techs in the field. Now some do make dang good money on it. The problem I found after ten years at Firestone is they preech team, team ,team, yet behind the cutain it's me ,me, me,. Flat rate is all about yourself, trying to get your hours to put food on the table. The mangers bounus system is set up to benefit cutting the throat of the people below them. So in the end, eveybody fighting each other for a paycheck. In my area techs won't apply there and if they do they are generally not that great. Don't get me wrong, there are good ones working for them, but they like to replace them by hiring to many entry level techs and push the good ones out, keeps overhead down. If I owned a company, I would want people lining up at my doors for jobs because I was the best place in town to work for. Why? Happy employees + Happy customers = more volume = more profit and a successful business. Flate rate needs to go bye bye...
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What's this? #43 Author of original report
I do know how it works, you're missing my point
AUTHOR: Mike - (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Thursday, October 18, 2007
Maybe some Firestones are run correctly but the one here in Macon isn't.
The manager OVERPOPULATED the shop. When he hired me, that gave ONE BAY PER TECH. Then he turned around and HIRED TWO MORE TECHS.
I do know how flag time works because I was on different commission pay plans for years. I always earned good money because I'm a good tech, a good finder and seller, and I'm also fast and do the job right the first time.
The manager OVERPOPULATED the shop. When he hired me, that gave ONE BAY PER TECH. Then he turned around and HIRED TWO MORE TECHS.
I do know how flag time works because I was on different commission pay plans for years. I always earned good money because I'm a good tech, a good finder and seller, and I'm also fast and do the job right the first time.
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What's this? #44 UPDATE EX-employee responds
you must not know how flag rate works then
AUTHOR: You Know - (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Thursday, October 18, 2007
i was astore manager for many years and this is not true. a good mechanic can make very good money on flate rate. you just have to know what you are doing to work on flat rate or yes you could starve to death. i had mechanics who made over 60,000 ayear in my stores on flate rate but i have seen slow mechanics who take twice as long as they should to do a job starve on flat rate.
at the mall store i ran i had seen many techs make lots of money. firestone can not run with out techs .it is the back bone of what tey do. so why would you not take care of your techs. and i had tech tell me firestone makes up there rates before thats why firestone keeps all the mitchell labor rate books on hand. i use to pull the books and compare times all the time to make sure my techs understood. it was the same flag rate can be very good for tech who knows what he is doing and is there to make money and not just punch a clock and get a paycheck.
at the mall store i ran i had seen many techs make lots of money. firestone can not run with out techs .it is the back bone of what tey do. so why would you not take care of your techs. and i had tech tell me firestone makes up there rates before thats why firestone keeps all the mitchell labor rate books on hand. i use to pull the books and compare times all the time to make sure my techs understood. it was the same flag rate can be very good for tech who knows what he is doing and is there to make money and not just punch a clock and get a paycheck.
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