- Report: #800765
Complaint Review: Flounder's Chowder House
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| Flounder's Chowder House 800 Quietwater Beach Road
Pensacola Beach, Florida United States of America |
|
Flounder's Chowder House Stolen Credit Card Information, Illegal 18% Service Charge Pensacola Beach, Florida
*Consumer Comment: Hire Matt & Zuck
*Consumer Comment: What did the " D.A. " say when you dodged them?
*Author of original report: voiceofreason's Master
*Consumer Comment: Stench From Voiceofnoreason aka truthdetector Returns
*Consumer Comment: Not so fast, sonny boy!
*Consumer Comment: Truth Detector aka voiceofreason and other SPAM kiddies move on
*Consumer Comment: You and your mother have a bone to pick...
*Consumer Comment: Truth Detector Refuses To Clean Tables At Flounder's
*Consumer Comment: Tina, it appears you have a bone to pick...
*Consumer Comment: Only a hillbilly would call that " fine restaurant "
*Consumer Comment: Temper temper, Floyd...
*Author of original report: Lorenzen And Truth Detector Eat Flounder Then Take A Laxative
*Consumer Comment: I wrote plain English, Tex...
*Consumer Comment: Flounder's
*Consumer Comment: Rant From Truth Detector, One Of Voiceofnoreason's Preteen Playmates
*Consumer Comment: I agree with the growing consensus...OP needs fries with that...
*Author of original report: Good Points From James
*Consumer Comment: For what it's worth
*Author of original report: Voice Of Reason And His Sycophants
*Author of original report: AKA WTF Too Many
*Consumer Comment: What Is Going On Here
*Consumer Comment: AKA this
*Consumer Comment: Here we go again
*Consumer Comment: Wtf?
*Author of original report: Coast Out-Of-Sequence
*Consumer Comment: RE: A.K.A. One-In-The-Same
*Author of original report: A.K.A. One-In-The-Same
*Consumer Comment: Not buying this
*Consumer Comment: Really?
*Consumer Comment: Ashley, is it your position that tourists are protected minority group?
*Author of original report: New Information Reveals 18% Service Charge Is Discriminatory
*Consumer Comment: Really ?
*Consumer Comment: What did the DA say when you filed a complaint about this "illegal" activity?
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Corporate Advocacy Program™
Our credit card information was stolen at Flounder's. Also, they charge an illegal 18% service charge on all checks. There is no notification on their menu that an automatic 18% service charge is added to all checks, and the servers do not advise customers there is an automatic 18% service charge added to all checks. Management refuses to discuss their illegal 18% service charge. Do not eat here or they will steal your credit card information and also charge you an illegal 18% service charge. Flounder's of Pensacola Beach is a Rip Off!
This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 11/22/2011 10:00 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Flounders-Chowder-House/Pensacola-Beach-Florida-32561/Flounders-Chowder-House-Stolen-Credit-Card-Information-Illegal-18-Service-Charge-Pensa-800765. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.
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They will expose all of the dirt about the defaming , lies, and little back deals promissed by the crooks. Just get him to testify about it. Juicy. How dumb are hillbillies and hillbillies old bags on a power trip. Court Jesters!
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What's this? #2 Consumer Comment
What did the " D.A. " say when you dodged them?
AUTHOR: Heismyfriendimonhiside - (Ukraine)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, June 26, 2012
The first time there was your buddy to help you out but on that other County you gave false info. What did the D. A. do?
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What's this? #3 Author of original report
voiceofreason's Master
AUTHOR: Floyd Flounder - (USA)
SUBMITTED: Friday, December 02, 2011
Well trained puppy-dog voiceofnoreason obeys his master. Here boy here boy, come here voiceofreason! Sit, down boy, down boy, good boy, sit. Oh my, look how voiceofreason comes when called by his master. Down boy, good boy, sit.
Floyd Flounder-voiceofreason's master.
Floyd Flounder-voiceofreason's master.
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What's this? #4 Consumer Comment
Stench From Voiceofnoreason aka truthdetector Returns
AUTHOR: Jose Ramirez - (USA)
SUBMITTED: Friday, December 02, 2011
Script-Kiddie aka Spam Kiddie Truthdetector aka Voiceofnoreason stench returns. LOL Hilarious, oh how busy they are with other "things," but oh how easy it takes for them to return LOL LOL LOL Crawl back to your addiction of harassing ripoffreport posters...be a good little spam kiddie now.
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What's this? #5 Consumer Comment
Not so fast, sonny boy!
AUTHOR: voiceofreason - (United States of America)
SUBMITTED: Friday, December 02, 2011
To Jose AKA Tex AKA Ash-Floyd, we OTHER AKAs have all indeed probably moved on to posts that actually have some relevancy to creation at large, as opposed to your drivel.
So barring another brief down moment when I've nothing better to do, so long.
So barring another brief down moment when I've nothing better to do, so long.
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What's this? #6 Consumer Comment
Truth Detector aka voiceofreason and other SPAM kiddies move on
AUTHOR: Jose Ramirez - (USA)
SUBMITTED: Thursday, December 01, 2011
Truth Detector aka voiceofreason and other SPAM kiddies have moved on to harass other posters on ripoffreport. How refreshing now that they are gone. However, their stench lingers on.
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What's this? #7 Consumer Comment
You and your mother have a bone to pick...
AUTHOR: Peeping Tina - (USA)
SUBMITTED: Monday, November 28, 2011
... isn't that what dogs do?
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What's this? #8 Consumer Comment
Truth Detector Refuses To Clean Tables At Flounder's
AUTHOR: Jose Ramirez - (USA)
SUBMITTED: Monday, November 28, 2011
Truth Detector a.k.a. Danny-The-Souse blew his lunch on several tables at Flounder's, then refused to clean the place up. Danny a.k.a. Truth Detector is on the wait staff at Flounder's and is known for adding the illegal 18% service charge on to unsuspecting tourists' bills. Danny wolfed down three pounds of cold greasy Flounder's fries, then tried to add them to an unsuspecting tourist's check. Danny should know better, after being fired from several greasy spoon joints on Pensacola Beach.
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What's this? #9 Consumer Comment
Tina, it appears you have a bone to pick...
AUTHOR: Truth Detector - (USA)
SUBMITTED: Monday, November 28, 2011
Where is all this hostility aimed at Floridians coming from? Sounds like you have some daddy issues you need to work out with a shrink.
Bottom-line: Flounders is a nice, classy restaurant...regardless of what you may think about their interior decorator.
To Tina, I offer this suggestion:
If you want to dine at a nice place, bring more than your food stamps and 4th grade education to pay.
Bottom-line: Flounders is a nice, classy restaurant...regardless of what you may think about their interior decorator.
To Tina, I offer this suggestion:
If you want to dine at a nice place, bring more than your food stamps and 4th grade education to pay.
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What's this? #10 Consumer Comment
Only a hillbilly would call that " fine restaurant "
AUTHOR: Peeping Tina - (USA)
SUBMITTED: Sunday, November 27, 2011
Never been and woud not if it was for free. It looks like a hillbilly tiki bar. Saw the pictures could smell the crass.
When people know all that much about percentages due to the size of the party (6,8 whatever) they are probably servers or have been at some point.
A lot of Florida losers posting as people from other states, but knowing too much about details that only Floridians would. Dumb.
Just quickly judging by their punctuation, writing flow, posting intervals and vocabulary it is clear that schizos are passing as three or four different people on posts.
Those are losers that have NOTHING, I mean have nothing, like living at home with mommy and daddy and granny at almost 50, type of losers. Their computers should have been taken away already. They are sociopaths with nothing to live for. You probably would be surprised about how long some of those people don't even have a relationship, because they can not have. They are crass and have nothing attractive about them and does not help the fact that they are probably broke too, specially when they call this third world beach slum a " fine dinning " or " classy restaurant ". This is people that eat at Wendy's and think they are " ballers ". Never travelled, don' t have any education or carrer. Can barely speak their own language. Probably still wear mullets.
The one " James " was correct by saying that Tourist Areas oriented restaurants charge tip included because Europeans and foreigners are not used to tipping outside the bill. The rest of the posts are by drunks and addicts are plain rude people that were raised like pigs by their parents and want to spread the hatred.
When people know all that much about percentages due to the size of the party (6,8 whatever) they are probably servers or have been at some point.
A lot of Florida losers posting as people from other states, but knowing too much about details that only Floridians would. Dumb.
Just quickly judging by their punctuation, writing flow, posting intervals and vocabulary it is clear that schizos are passing as three or four different people on posts.
Those are losers that have NOTHING, I mean have nothing, like living at home with mommy and daddy and granny at almost 50, type of losers. Their computers should have been taken away already. They are sociopaths with nothing to live for. You probably would be surprised about how long some of those people don't even have a relationship, because they can not have. They are crass and have nothing attractive about them and does not help the fact that they are probably broke too, specially when they call this third world beach slum a " fine dinning " or " classy restaurant ". This is people that eat at Wendy's and think they are " ballers ". Never travelled, don' t have any education or carrer. Can barely speak their own language. Probably still wear mullets.
The one " James " was correct by saying that Tourist Areas oriented restaurants charge tip included because Europeans and foreigners are not used to tipping outside the bill. The rest of the posts are by drunks and addicts are plain rude people that were raised like pigs by their parents and want to spread the hatred.
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What's this? #11 Consumer Comment
Temper temper, Floyd...
AUTHOR: Truth Detector - (USA)
SUBMITTED: Sunday, November 27, 2011
You come on Ripoffreport whining about paying a tip...
You are taken to the cleaners regarding your lack of class...
Then, you have the cheek to accuse classy restaurant patrons of being the backwoods bubbas?
I think you're confused there, Elmer. Evolved consumers understand that you have to actually PAY for premium services. You want fine dining at dollar menu prices.
Here's a suggestion:
Pay off your subprime credit card so you will have room to include the tip that was clearly disclosed to you BEFORE you order. If that is too high a price to pay, the greasy spoon down the road will be happy to take your business.
You are taken to the cleaners regarding your lack of class...
Then, you have the cheek to accuse classy restaurant patrons of being the backwoods bubbas?
I think you're confused there, Elmer. Evolved consumers understand that you have to actually PAY for premium services. You want fine dining at dollar menu prices.
Here's a suggestion:
Pay off your subprime credit card so you will have room to include the tip that was clearly disclosed to you BEFORE you order. If that is too high a price to pay, the greasy spoon down the road will be happy to take your business.
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What's this? #12 Author of original report
Lorenzen And Truth Detector Eat Flounder Then Take A Laxative
AUTHOR: Floyd - (USA)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, November 26, 2011
Truth Detector and Lorenzen, with spittle all over their shirt fronts from slobbering continually, took six laxatives, then spewed their drivel here. No one was interested in their drivel, so they went back to Flounder's and wolfed down three dozen cold french fries, followed by six beers, which then caused them to pass out, still slobbering all over their shirts. These two clowns are a traveling floor show.
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What's this? #13 Consumer Comment
I wrote plain English, Tex...
AUTHOR: Truth Detector - (USA)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, November 26, 2011
If it is too complicated for you to comprehend, perhaps I could draw you a good ol' Texas-sized
C-A-R-T-O-O-N
so you can better understand...
C-A-R-T-O-O-N
so you can better understand...
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What's this?
Over the years, I have dined in a good many fine restaurants throughout this country. In the vast majority of them there are signs posted that for parties of 6 or more ( sometimes it's 8 or more ), there will be a gratuity ( usually 15-18% ) added into the bill. And, as often as not, the same message is written PLAINLY in the menu. I feel certain that this was the case with the author, who either imbibed too much alcohol, or was just too stupid to take notice or care.
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What's this? #15 Consumer Comment
Rant From Truth Detector, One Of Voiceofnoreason's Preteen Playmates
AUTHOR: Tex - (USA)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, November 26, 2011
Does anyone have any idea what Truth Detector is ranting about? Suggestion for Truth Detector, get back on your meds.
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What's this? #16 Consumer Comment
I agree with the growing consensus...OP needs fries with that...
AUTHOR: Truth Detector - (USA)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, November 26, 2011
...and before anyone starts, spare us the "It's not my job to pay the server via tip...that's the employer's job..." nonsense. Your $15-20 meal would be $30-40 if the restaurant had to pay servers what they are worth. Paying an extra $18 on a $100 ticket comes out to an extra $3 per person...a small price to pay for classy service and terrific food.
Of course, the CLASSY part is what is lost on the contemporary American consumer for the most part and with few exceptions. Eating at a classy restaurant has, historically, meant presenting an appreciative, classy consumer who rewards the outstanding service one receives at a place like that.
Unfortunately, U.S society has devolved into a "gimme gimme...for free" marketplace where its leeches expect to be treated like royalty while paying peanuts (or less). If you don't believe me, take a gander at all the fast food complaints on Ripoffreport. People who buy $0.99 double burgers are mad because the teens making minimum wage don't bow and kiss their feet.
To the OP, I say this:
Instead of whining that a classy restaurant demands the same class in return (and for you to actually (GASP!) PAY for outstanding food and service, try READING the signs and menu BEFORE you order so you know what is expected when the bill is tabulated. You might also eat at places that are more conducive to your economic situation since paying a gratuity seems to be beyond your means.
Of course, the CLASSY part is what is lost on the contemporary American consumer for the most part and with few exceptions. Eating at a classy restaurant has, historically, meant presenting an appreciative, classy consumer who rewards the outstanding service one receives at a place like that.
Unfortunately, U.S society has devolved into a "gimme gimme...for free" marketplace where its leeches expect to be treated like royalty while paying peanuts (or less). If you don't believe me, take a gander at all the fast food complaints on Ripoffreport. People who buy $0.99 double burgers are mad because the teens making minimum wage don't bow and kiss their feet.
To the OP, I say this:
Instead of whining that a classy restaurant demands the same class in return (and for you to actually (GASP!) PAY for outstanding food and service, try READING the signs and menu BEFORE you order so you know what is expected when the bill is tabulated. You might also eat at places that are more conducive to your economic situation since paying a gratuity seems to be beyond your means.
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What's this? #17 Author of original report
Good Points From James
AUTHOR: Floyd - (USA)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, November 26, 2011
Thanks for your mature input and comments, James.
A big problem, though, is the fact that Flounder's servers are not advising their patrons that an 18% service charge will be routinely imposed on their bill. Moreover, there is no mention of this in their menu or any posted signage in the restaurant. Without any notice of advisement, that makes the 18% service charge illegal. This is similar to hotel "safe warranties," which the courts have ruled are illegal, unless guests are clearly informed BEFORE any business is conducted.
The stolen credit card information could subject the perpetrator to criminal charges.
A big problem, though, is the fact that Flounder's servers are not advising their patrons that an 18% service charge will be routinely imposed on their bill. Moreover, there is no mention of this in their menu or any posted signage in the restaurant. Without any notice of advisement, that makes the 18% service charge illegal. This is similar to hotel "safe warranties," which the courts have ruled are illegal, unless guests are clearly informed BEFORE any business is conducted.
The stolen credit card information could subject the perpetrator to criminal charges.
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What's this? #18 Consumer Comment
For what it's worth
AUTHOR: James MK - (USA)
SUBMITTED: Friday, November 25, 2011
I have no idea if charging 18% service fee is now illegal or not in Florida but I 30 years ago before I went to college I spent two years working as a bartender at a hotel in Fort Lauderdale. The bar catered to both locals and tourists, the latter mostly from Canada. The *only* people who gave tips were locals and people from Quebec, and thank God we had many patrons from Quebec because other Canadians *never* gave any tips, and neither did most Europeans. It was my understanding that in those areas the tip is always included with the check so those people did not know -or pretended not to know- that in Florida the tip is not included on the check and that it is customary to give one unless particularly poor service had been provided. Just my 2 cents.
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What's this? #19 Author of original report
Voice Of Reason And His Sycophants
AUTHOR: Floyd - (USA)
SUBMITTED: Friday, November 25, 2011
Now that voiceofnoreason and the rest of the preteen sycophants have gone on to harassing other posters on this site, the adults can continue to discuss the illegal 18% service charge and credit card theft that is going on at Flounder's Chowder House at Pensacola Beach, Florida.
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What's this? #20 Author of original report
AKA WTF Too Many
AUTHOR: Floyd - (USA)
SUBMITTED: Thursday, November 24, 2011
Who are all these people? What we have here is a morbid collection of people with absolutely no life who feel compelled to stick their noses into matters which do not concern them. OTOH, go for it, let everyone see all the nuts. My vote is for Floyd Flounder, who is a gentleman and scholar, even if he does use the illegal 18% service charge for his personal needs. I vote that Flounder's raise the illegal 18% service charge to 25%, since Floyd deserves more.
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What's this? #21 Consumer Comment
What Is Going On Here
AUTHOR: Groves - (USA)
SUBMITTED: Thursday, November 24, 2011
It is a well known fact that proceeds from the illegal 18% service charge go into the Floyd Flounder Scholarship Fund for fishy studies.
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What's this?
Yep all I think we have here is a nut who thinks(or is it hopes) they are talking to themselves. Just take a good look at the AKA list.
Perhaps it is time to move on and let the OP get back on their meds. So that they can be lucid enough to attend this magical Holiday Party paid for by all of the service charges.
Perhaps it is time to move on and let the OP get back on their meds. So that they can be lucid enough to attend this magical Holiday Party paid for by all of the service charges.
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What's this? #23 Consumer Comment
Here we go again
AUTHOR: voiceofreason - (United States of America)
SUBMITTED: Thursday, November 24, 2011
Now not only are we all employees of the company reported on, but now we are also all each other! A new OP low (intelligence wise).
I think Lorenzen made a prescient observation in calling Ashlloyd the OP "moron".
I think Lorenzen made a prescient observation in calling Ashlloyd the OP "moron".
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What's this? #24 Consumer Comment
Wtf?
AUTHOR: Consumer Vs. Merchant - (United States of America)
SUBMITTED: Thursday, November 24, 2011
Why do people waste their time writing fraudulent charges on merchants? You have nothing better to do with your time?
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What's this? #25 Author of original report
Coast Out-Of-Sequence
AUTHOR: Floyd - (USA)
SUBMITTED: Thursday, November 24, 2011
Coast a.k.a. Greeley a.k.a. Floyd a.k.a. Ashley a.k.a. voicofnoreason a.k.a. Flounder a.k.a. and a.k.a. Lorenz a.k.a. Coast a.k.a. ken Lorenz appeared out of order and was on second so should have been on first but Floyd Flounder is still collecting an the illegal 18% service charge to pay the mortgage.
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What's this? #26 Consumer Comment
RE: A.K.A. One-In-The-Same
AUTHOR: coast - (USA)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, November 23, 2011
The "One-In-The-Same" comment is ironic because you started out as Ashley and changed your name to Floyd. That's ok if you had a gender change operation since yesterday.
Tell us Ashley/Floyd, how recently were you fired from Flounders? Was it for stealing credit card numbers or because you are a he/she?
Tell us Ashley/Floyd, how recently were you fired from Flounders? Was it for stealing credit card numbers or because you are a he/she?
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What's this? #27 Author of original report
A.K.A. One-In-The-Same
AUTHOR: Floyd - (USA)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, November 23, 2011
Greely, a.k.a Ken a.k.a. Ashley a.k.a. Lorenz a.k.a. Robert a.k.a. voiceofnoreason a.k.a. and a.k.a. Floyd Flounder are all One-In-The-Same, and rumor has it the illegal 18% service charge is used to fund Flounder's annual holiday party, but another rumor says it is used to pay the bridge toll, or is that Greeley who uses Floyd Flounder's credit card to party with? Who is on first and who is on second? Lets see whose next?
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What's this? #28 Consumer Comment
Not buying this
AUTHOR: voiceofreason - (United States of America)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, November 23, 2011
The locals frequenting the Irish pub can probably be counted on to properly tip wait staff, whereas their experience at the more touristy location shows otherwise.
And I side with the others in figuring Flounders has that forced tip indicated somewhere they'd expect one to see it.
If they suspect you (The OP) will begin frequenting the Irish pub, they'll probably begin charging that automatic tip there too.
And I side with the others in figuring Flounders has that forced tip indicated somewhere they'd expect one to see it.
If they suspect you (The OP) will begin frequenting the Irish pub, they'll probably begin charging that automatic tip there too.
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What's this? "Local Pensacola residents will not tolerate an illegal 18% service charge," one local resicent was quoted as saying.
- And just where was this one resident quoted saying that?
Additional information has also been discovered which reveals additional customers have had credit card information stolen at Flounder's.
- And just where is your source for this information? Is it from the same quoted "local resident"?
Based on what you wrote, I think that your claims are incorrect. I also think that you are either leaving out or exaggerating information.
But with that said. IF, and that is a BIG IF, there is absolutely no disclosure anywhere of this "Service Charge" until the customer gets the check. Then and only then, do you have a valid complaint.
- And just where was this one resident quoted saying that?
Additional information has also been discovered which reveals additional customers have had credit card information stolen at Flounder's.
- And just where is your source for this information? Is it from the same quoted "local resident"?
Based on what you wrote, I think that your claims are incorrect. I also think that you are either leaving out or exaggerating information.
But with that said. IF, and that is a BIG IF, there is absolutely no disclosure anywhere of this "Service Charge" until the customer gets the check. Then and only then, do you have a valid complaint.
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What's this? #30 Consumer Comment
Ashley, is it your position that tourists are protected minority group?
AUTHOR: Ken - (USA)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, November 23, 2011
"The illegal 18% service charge is discriminatory and specifically targets transitory tourists."
"New Information Reveals 18% Service Charge Is Discriminatory"
Is the EEOC on board with this new targeted group, or is this just YOUR opinion?
"Additional information has also been discovered which reveals additional customers have had credit card information stolen at Flounder's."
Care to enlighten us on this official source of information?
How long has it been since Flounder's fired you?
I sent an e-mail to Flounders with the link to this ROR just to keep things fair.
"New Information Reveals 18% Service Charge Is Discriminatory"
Is the EEOC on board with this new targeted group, or is this just YOUR opinion?
"Additional information has also been discovered which reveals additional customers have had credit card information stolen at Flounder's."
Care to enlighten us on this official source of information?
How long has it been since Flounder's fired you?
I sent an e-mail to Flounders with the link to this ROR just to keep things fair.
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What's this? #31 Author of original report
New Information Reveals 18% Service Charge Is Discriminatory
AUTHOR: Ashley - (USA)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, November 23, 2011
Continued investigation reveals that Flounder's in Pensacola Beach, FL and McGuire's Irish Pub in Pensacola have one in the same owner. McGuire's Irish Pub does not impose an 18% service charge, because local residents patronize McGuire's, versus tourists who patronize Flounder's. "Local Pensacola residents will not tolerate an illegal 18% service charge," one local resicent was quoted as saying. The illegal 18% service charge is discriminatory and specifically targets transitory tourists. Additional information has also been discovered which reveals additional customers have had credit card information stolen at Flounder's. Exercise extreme caution, if you decide to dine at the Rip-Off Flounder's Chowder House in Pensacola Beach, Florida.
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What's this?
That was NOT a "service charge", you moron. Flounders, like MOST restaurants adds the tip ( 18% ) into the check for ALL GROUPS ( usually for a group of 6 or more ). This is due to the fact that a lot of ignorant cheapskates ( like YOU, for example ) will "stiff" the hard working wait staff out of the proper tip. And, I can assure you that this is plainly posted, either directly on the menu, or at other conspicuous places in the restaurant. In fact, I've never eaten at a proper restaurant where this was NOT the case. Well, apparently you're just not too bright, are you ? Either that, or you've never eaten at any restaurant other than McDonald's. Get a life, Cretin.
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What's this? #33 Consumer Comment
What did the DA say when you filed a complaint about this "illegal" activity?
AUTHOR: Ken - (USA)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, November 22, 2011
"...they charge an illegal 18% service charge on all checks."
I'll bet that the menus showed that 18% would be added to all checks. If NOT, the restaurant was not too smart in alienating customers by not advising them.
Also if you KNOW they stole your CC information, that should also be reported.
BTW, how DO you know THEY stole your info?
"Our credit card information was stolen at Flounder's."
I do wish you luck in resolving your CC issues.
I'll bet that the menus showed that 18% would be added to all checks. If NOT, the restaurant was not too smart in alienating customers by not advising them.
Also if you KNOW they stole your CC information, that should also be reported.
BTW, how DO you know THEY stole your info?
"Our credit card information was stolen at Flounder's."
I do wish you luck in resolving your CC issues.
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What's this? 
