• Report: #172575

Complaint Review: Foremost Insurance

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  • Submitted: Fri, January 20, 2006
  • Updated: Fri, April 07, 2006

  • Reported By:Sparta Tennessee
Foremost Insurance
5600 Beech Tree Lane Caledonia, Michigan U.S.A.

Foremost Insurance ripoff Unfair Rating - I was not far enough in debt Caledonia Michigan

*Author of original report: FOREMOST: The Final Chapter

*Author of original report: FOREMOST: The Final Chapter

*Author of original report: FOREMOST: The Final Chapter

*Author of original report: FOREMOST: The Final Chapter

*Author of original report: Letter to TENNESSEE INSURANCE COMMISSION requesting re-consideration

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: I know all about it

*Author of original report: Tennessee Insurance Commission was a joke

*Author of original report: Applying for new credit cards will only serve to lower that score. Catch 22

*Consumer Suggestion: Get some credit cards, but do NOT use them.

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My motorcycle is insured by Foremost Insurance Company. They have insured it for the last two years. They had rated me "A", their best rate.

I moved from Florida to Tennessee in August 2005. They told me they had to cancel the Florida policy and re-write it for Tennessee. OK, no problem. They re-rated me "B" which caused a significant increase in the premium. They use ChoicePoint for their rating information. I requested and received a copy of the information used from ChoicePoint. There were NO tickets, NO violations, NO accidents, NO claims to ANY insurance company, and NO negative issues from the credit bureau (Experian).

What Foremost did get from ChoicePoint was I did not have enough debt. They reported "[Not enough] # OF NON-CLOSED ACCOUNTS", "INSUFFICIENT INFORMATION ON BANK REVOLVING ACCOUNTS", "INSUFFICIENT INFORMATION ON OIL COMPANY ACCOUNTS", "INSUFFICIENT INFORMATION ON SALES FINANCE ACCOUNTS".

I planned my retirement to start debt-free. I achieved that goal. I retired at the end of 2004. I would think this would indicate that a person handles his finances very responsibly. However, Foremost Insurance Company and CheckPoint do not see it that way.

The following is the text of an email I sent to Foremost after attempting, and failing, to get them to rectify this injustice:

From my perspective, this is what the corporate attitude seems to be:

FOREMOST: "We see, from the information provided to us by ChoicePoint, that you are not spending your money on interest for credit cards, installment loans, etc. Therefore, we intend to relieve you of those monies that would have gone to interest by rating you lower so we may increase your insurance premium. This may be unfair, even unethical, but it IS legal. That is what matters most to us."

The main point here is if you have no tickets, violations, accidents, or claims and do have excellent credit but are not in debt you may want to make sure the insurance company you are considering does NOT use ChoicePoint to provide your insurance score. They WILL cost you money.

Charles
Sparta, Tennessee
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 01/20/2006 05:49 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Foremost-Insurance/Caledonia-Michigan-49316/Foremost-Insurance-ripoff-Unfair-Rating-I-was-not-far-enough-in-debt-Caledonia-Michiga-172575. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 Author of original report

FOREMOST: The Final Chapter

AUTHOR: Charles - (U.S.A.)

In all of the correspondence, which has been considerable, that has taken place with Foremost, ChoicePoint, and the Tennessee insurance commission each of them has exhibited the intelligence of a box of rocks when it comes to providing any useful information. Here are the last three correspondences between Foremost and myself. You can decide if this is the kind of company you would want to deal with.

------- EMAIL to Foremost 2/26/06 -------

Ms. [specialist],

No one, other than yourself, has responded. I feel certain, that if you were permitted to, you would have already provided the email address of who these are being forwarded to.

If you are forwarding these to Mr. [manager] that may explain it.

Based on his response to the Tennessee Insurance commissioner I don't believe he understands what the REAL issue is. I never "alleged" the entire increase was due to 'B' rating, (I knew it wasn't) but no one informed me, until now, exactly how much of it was. He also states I missed an 'A' rating "by a wide margin". How? Why? More vagueness. Meaningful information has been extremely difficult to come by.

He, nor the insurance commissioner, has explained why Foremost is not subject to the law: Insurer shall not ... Take an adverse action against a consumer solely because he or she does not have a credit account...

Since my revolving account has been ignored, I must assume you are requiring an installment account(s). Installment accounts must have a balance...sounds to me like I must be in debt.

Then we have the situation where ChoicePoint says the score is based on Foremost's criteria, Foremost says they "are not privy to the [ChoicePoint's] inner workings".....someone is lying to me.

In my memo "... look at the facts objectively, apply some common sense, and restore my 'A' PRL." He did not apply the "common sense" part of the equation. As a result he is not seeing beyond a flawed ChoicePoint/Foremost scoring system.

As it presently stands Foremost IS being, to use Mr. [manager]'s own words, "patently discriminatory and unfair" toward anyone who is responsible enough to get themselves out of debt before retirement.

Mr. [manager] also considers his "response sufficient reply to both [Tenn. Ins. Comm. and myself].", I do not.

Someone is yet to answer the question: What must change for me to qualify for the 'A' rating? Does Mr. [manager] (or whoever this is forwarded to) possess the strength of character to address this? We shall see.

------- Letter from Foremost 3/6/06 -----

Ms. [specialist] forwarded your February 26 email to me for review.

I regret that the response(s) we've provided have not been completely satisfactory. They were, in fact, proffered in the spirit of complete cooperation and honesty to the extent allowed by the information available to us, and the legal covenants that govern our operations.

The information you continue to press for is not insurance related, it is credit related and, specifically, it relates to what drives proprietary insurance score models. To your questions of 'what information is this message derived from?', 'how does this affect my insurance risk score?', and 'what can I do to improve this aspect of my score?'; my answer is, I honestly don't know. Quite frankly, no one else associated with Foremost Insurance Company is likely to respond differently, either. To the extent you require financial advice, you may find it appropriate to engage a financial advisor or credit counselor. Our company is not in a position to provide that service.

We appreciate the tenacity and determination you've displayed over this issue. However, because there is nothing to add to what has been already shared, we must consider the matter closed.


------- EMAIL to Foremost 3/0/06 ------

Ms. [specialist],

Please forward this final email.

Thank you.

For Mr. [manager]:

Your letter of March 6 has convinced me that your reading comprehension skills are fairly limited. You were not even able to distinguish between my questions and ChoicePoint's website information.

This was pure hypocrisy: "... to the extent allowed ... and the legal covenants that govern our operations." You have already demonstrated that the law has little meaning to you.

More BS: "The information you continue to press for is not insurance related, it is credit related ..." - YOU made it insurance related. Suggesting that I should engage a financial advisor or credit counselor proves to me you don't have a clue what the issues were. I don't believe you ever recognized the fact I do not have credit problems.

Strength of character was non-existent. You have played the corporate puppet very well and consistently avoided the issues. For my part, Foremost and ChoicePoint both lack any measure of integrity.

Interestingly, my research has uncovered a letter to the Federal Trade Commission by an individual in New Jersey in August 2004 who you screwed almost identically to what you have done to me. Care to look?:

ftc.gov/os/comments/creditscoresstudy/
510559-0101.pdf

In my opinion, Foremost has shown a blatant disregard for the law. And, from all appearances, has been quite successful in 'buying' several state insurance commissions. However, it does look like Florida would not allow your discriminatory, unfair, mis-use of credit information. Care to look?:

cej-online.org/2002Comments.pdf

I now consider myself fortunate to have never needed to file a claim with Foremost. I believe it would have been, in light of this experience, an absolute nightmare dealing with you people.

Tenacity? Damn right! I will not be treated unfairly.

I have canceled my Foremost policy and received the following notice:
---------------------------
ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF CANCELLATION FOR POLICY NUMBER 276-XXX-XXX-XXX-X 01 ISSUED BY FOREMOST INSURANCE COMPANY. COVERAGE CANCELLED ON 03/10/06 AS OF 12:01 AM STANDARD TIME. YOUR POLICY WAS CANCELLED DUE TO YOUR REQUEST.
YOUR TOTAL PREMIUM PRIOR TO CANCELLATION WAS ........... $391.00.
THE AMOUNT EARNED BY THE CANCELLATION DATE WAS ......... $199.00.
(PREMIUM $199.00, SERVICE CHARGE $0.00, SURCHARGE $0.00)
THE AMOUNT CREDITED TO YOUR ACCOUNT WAS ................ 391.00.
THEREFORE, WE WILL SEND A REFUND OF $192.00 TO THE APPROPRIATE PARTY UNDER SEPARATE COVER.
------------

The refund should have been $213.18, NOT $192.00.
1. 9/26/05 thru 3/10/06 is 166 days.
2. $391.00 premium for 365 days is $1.071232 per day.
3. 166 days @ $1.071232 is $177.82 earned premium, NOT $199.00.
4. $391.00 less $177.82 leaves $213.18.
Foremost has kept $21.18 which they are not entitled to.
It appears to me that you people are either nothing more than common thieves or just incredibly stupid when it comes to simple mathematics!

NOW you may consider the matter closed.

Former customer,
Charles

c:ripoffreport.com
-------------

I canceled the policy through the agent on 3/10/06. The agent sent me a form to sign. It was returned to the agent on 3/13/06. I received a cancellation acknowledgement from Foremost on 3/27/06, 14 days later! When the policy was started it only took 3 days for me to receive a request for payment. Full payment HAD ALREADY BEEN MADE to the agent via credit card (that was a separate mess). They took 17 days to issue the refund!

Cindy has confirmed my belief about filing a claim was right on. I hope the information provided here helps others avoid this comapany and their less than ethical practices.
Respond to this report!
What's this?

#2 Author of original report

FOREMOST: The Final Chapter

AUTHOR: Charles - (U.S.A.)

In all of the correspondence, which has been considerable, that has taken place with Foremost, ChoicePoint, and the Tennessee insurance commission each of them has exhibited the intelligence of a box of rocks when it comes to providing any useful information. Here are the last three correspondences between Foremost and myself. You can decide if this is the kind of company you would want to deal with.

------- EMAIL to Foremost 2/26/06 -------

Ms. [specialist],

No one, other than yourself, has responded. I feel certain, that if you were permitted to, you would have already provided the email address of who these are being forwarded to.

If you are forwarding these to Mr. [manager] that may explain it.

Based on his response to the Tennessee Insurance commissioner I don't believe he understands what the REAL issue is. I never "alleged" the entire increase was due to 'B' rating, (I knew it wasn't) but no one informed me, until now, exactly how much of it was. He also states I missed an 'A' rating "by a wide margin". How? Why? More vagueness. Meaningful information has been extremely difficult to come by.

He, nor the insurance commissioner, has explained why Foremost is not subject to the law: Insurer shall not ... Take an adverse action against a consumer solely because he or she does not have a credit account...

Since my revolving account has been ignored, I must assume you are requiring an installment account(s). Installment accounts must have a balance...sounds to me like I must be in debt.

Then we have the situation where ChoicePoint says the score is based on Foremost's criteria, Foremost says they "are not privy to the [ChoicePoint's] inner workings".....someone is lying to me.

In my memo "... look at the facts objectively, apply some common sense, and restore my 'A' PRL." He did not apply the "common sense" part of the equation. As a result he is not seeing beyond a flawed ChoicePoint/Foremost scoring system.

As it presently stands Foremost IS being, to use Mr. [manager]'s own words, "patently discriminatory and unfair" toward anyone who is responsible enough to get themselves out of debt before retirement.

Mr. [manager] also considers his "response sufficient reply to both [Tenn. Ins. Comm. and myself].", I do not.

Someone is yet to answer the question: What must change for me to qualify for the 'A' rating? Does Mr. [manager] (or whoever this is forwarded to) possess the strength of character to address this? We shall see.

------- Letter from Foremost 3/6/06 -----

Ms. [specialist] forwarded your February 26 email to me for review.

I regret that the response(s) we've provided have not been completely satisfactory. They were, in fact, proffered in the spirit of complete cooperation and honesty to the extent allowed by the information available to us, and the legal covenants that govern our operations.

The information you continue to press for is not insurance related, it is credit related and, specifically, it relates to what drives proprietary insurance score models. To your questions of 'what information is this message derived from?', 'how does this affect my insurance risk score?', and 'what can I do to improve this aspect of my score?'; my answer is, I honestly don't know. Quite frankly, no one else associated with Foremost Insurance Company is likely to respond differently, either. To the extent you require financial advice, you may find it appropriate to engage a financial advisor or credit counselor. Our company is not in a position to provide that service.

We appreciate the tenacity and determination you've displayed over this issue. However, because there is nothing to add to what has been already shared, we must consider the matter closed.


------- EMAIL to Foremost 3/0/06 ------

Ms. [specialist],

Please forward this final email.

Thank you.

For Mr. [manager]:

Your letter of March 6 has convinced me that your reading comprehension skills are fairly limited. You were not even able to distinguish between my questions and ChoicePoint's website information.

This was pure hypocrisy: "... to the extent allowed ... and the legal covenants that govern our operations." You have already demonstrated that the law has little meaning to you.

More BS: "The information you continue to press for is not insurance related, it is credit related ..." - YOU made it insurance related. Suggesting that I should engage a financial advisor or credit counselor proves to me you don't have a clue what the issues were. I don't believe you ever recognized the fact I do not have credit problems.

Strength of character was non-existent. You have played the corporate puppet very well and consistently avoided the issues. For my part, Foremost and ChoicePoint both lack any measure of integrity.

Interestingly, my research has uncovered a letter to the Federal Trade Commission by an individual in New Jersey in August 2004 who you screwed almost identically to what you have done to me. Care to look?:

ftc.gov/os/comments/creditscoresstudy/
510559-0101.pdf

In my opinion, Foremost has shown a blatant disregard for the law. And, from all appearances, has been quite successful in 'buying' several state insurance commissions. However, it does look like Florida would not allow your discriminatory, unfair, mis-use of credit information. Care to look?:

cej-online.org/2002Comments.pdf

I now consider myself fortunate to have never needed to file a claim with Foremost. I believe it would have been, in light of this experience, an absolute nightmare dealing with you people.

Tenacity? Damn right! I will not be treated unfairly.

I have canceled my Foremost policy and received the following notice:
---------------------------
ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF CANCELLATION FOR POLICY NUMBER 276-XXX-XXX-XXX-X 01 ISSUED BY FOREMOST INSURANCE COMPANY. COVERAGE CANCELLED ON 03/10/06 AS OF 12:01 AM STANDARD TIME. YOUR POLICY WAS CANCELLED DUE TO YOUR REQUEST.
YOUR TOTAL PREMIUM PRIOR TO CANCELLATION WAS ........... $391.00.
THE AMOUNT EARNED BY THE CANCELLATION DATE WAS ......... $199.00.
(PREMIUM $199.00, SERVICE CHARGE $0.00, SURCHARGE $0.00)
THE AMOUNT CREDITED TO YOUR ACCOUNT WAS ................ 391.00.
THEREFORE, WE WILL SEND A REFUND OF $192.00 TO THE APPROPRIATE PARTY UNDER SEPARATE COVER.
------------

The refund should have been $213.18, NOT $192.00.
1. 9/26/05 thru 3/10/06 is 166 days.
2. $391.00 premium for 365 days is $1.071232 per day.
3. 166 days @ $1.071232 is $177.82 earned premium, NOT $199.00.
4. $391.00 less $177.82 leaves $213.18.
Foremost has kept $21.18 which they are not entitled to.
It appears to me that you people are either nothing more than common thieves or just incredibly stupid when it comes to simple mathematics!

NOW you may consider the matter closed.

Former customer,
Charles

c:ripoffreport.com
-------------

I canceled the policy through the agent on 3/10/06. The agent sent me a form to sign. It was returned to the agent on 3/13/06. I received a cancellation acknowledgement from Foremost on 3/27/06, 14 days later! When the policy was started it only took 3 days for me to receive a request for payment. Full payment HAD ALREADY BEEN MADE to the agent via credit card (that was a separate mess). They took 17 days to issue the refund!

Cindy has confirmed my belief about filing a claim was right on. I hope the information provided here helps others avoid this comapany and their less than ethical practices.
Respond to this report!
What's this?

#3 Author of original report

FOREMOST: The Final Chapter

AUTHOR: Charles - (U.S.A.)

In all of the correspondence, which has been considerable, that has taken place with Foremost, ChoicePoint, and the Tennessee insurance commission each of them has exhibited the intelligence of a box of rocks when it comes to providing any useful information. Here are the last three correspondences between Foremost and myself. You can decide if this is the kind of company you would want to deal with.

------- EMAIL to Foremost 2/26/06 -------

Ms. [specialist],

No one, other than yourself, has responded. I feel certain, that if you were permitted to, you would have already provided the email address of who these are being forwarded to.

If you are forwarding these to Mr. [manager] that may explain it.

Based on his response to the Tennessee Insurance commissioner I don't believe he understands what the REAL issue is. I never "alleged" the entire increase was due to 'B' rating, (I knew it wasn't) but no one informed me, until now, exactly how much of it was. He also states I missed an 'A' rating "by a wide margin". How? Why? More vagueness. Meaningful information has been extremely difficult to come by.

He, nor the insurance commissioner, has explained why Foremost is not subject to the law: Insurer shall not ... Take an adverse action against a consumer solely because he or she does not have a credit account...

Since my revolving account has been ignored, I must assume you are requiring an installment account(s). Installment accounts must have a balance...sounds to me like I must be in debt.

Then we have the situation where ChoicePoint says the score is based on Foremost's criteria, Foremost says they "are not privy to the [ChoicePoint's] inner workings".....someone is lying to me.

In my memo "... look at the facts objectively, apply some common sense, and restore my 'A' PRL." He did not apply the "common sense" part of the equation. As a result he is not seeing beyond a flawed ChoicePoint/Foremost scoring system.

As it presently stands Foremost IS being, to use Mr. [manager]'s own words, "patently discriminatory and unfair" toward anyone who is responsible enough to get themselves out of debt before retirement.

Mr. [manager] also considers his "response sufficient reply to both [Tenn. Ins. Comm. and myself].", I do not.

Someone is yet to answer the question: What must change for me to qualify for the 'A' rating? Does Mr. [manager] (or whoever this is forwarded to) possess the strength of character to address this? We shall see.

------- Letter from Foremost 3/6/06 -----

Ms. [specialist] forwarded your February 26 email to me for review.

I regret that the response(s) we've provided have not been completely satisfactory. They were, in fact, proffered in the spirit of complete cooperation and honesty to the extent allowed by the information available to us, and the legal covenants that govern our operations.

The information you continue to press for is not insurance related, it is credit related and, specifically, it relates to what drives proprietary insurance score models. To your questions of 'what information is this message derived from?', 'how does this affect my insurance risk score?', and 'what can I do to improve this aspect of my score?'; my answer is, I honestly don't know. Quite frankly, no one else associated with Foremost Insurance Company is likely to respond differently, either. To the extent you require financial advice, you may find it appropriate to engage a financial advisor or credit counselor. Our company is not in a position to provide that service.

We appreciate the tenacity and determination you've displayed over this issue. However, because there is nothing to add to what has been already shared, we must consider the matter closed.


------- EMAIL to Foremost 3/0/06 ------

Ms. [specialist],

Please forward this final email.

Thank you.

For Mr. [manager]:

Your letter of March 6 has convinced me that your reading comprehension skills are fairly limited. You were not even able to distinguish between my questions and ChoicePoint's website information.

This was pure hypocrisy: "... to the extent allowed ... and the legal covenants that govern our operations." You have already demonstrated that the law has little meaning to you.

More BS: "The information you continue to press for is not insurance related, it is credit related ..." - YOU made it insurance related. Suggesting that I should engage a financial advisor or credit counselor proves to me you don't have a clue what the issues were. I don't believe you ever recognized the fact I do not have credit problems.

Strength of character was non-existent. You have played the corporate puppet very well and consistently avoided the issues. For my part, Foremost and ChoicePoint both lack any measure of integrity.

Interestingly, my research has uncovered a letter to the Federal Trade Commission by an individual in New Jersey in August 2004 who you screwed almost identically to what you have done to me. Care to look?:

ftc.gov/os/comments/creditscoresstudy/
510559-0101.pdf

In my opinion, Foremost has shown a blatant disregard for the law. And, from all appearances, has been quite successful in 'buying' several state insurance commissions. However, it does look like Florida would not allow your discriminatory, unfair, mis-use of credit information. Care to look?:

cej-online.org/2002Comments.pdf

I now consider myself fortunate to have never needed to file a claim with Foremost. I believe it would have been, in light of this experience, an absolute nightmare dealing with you people.

Tenacity? Damn right! I will not be treated unfairly.

I have canceled my Foremost policy and received the following notice:
---------------------------
ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF CANCELLATION FOR POLICY NUMBER 276-XXX-XXX-XXX-X 01 ISSUED BY FOREMOST INSURANCE COMPANY. COVERAGE CANCELLED ON 03/10/06 AS OF 12:01 AM STANDARD TIME. YOUR POLICY WAS CANCELLED DUE TO YOUR REQUEST.
YOUR TOTAL PREMIUM PRIOR TO CANCELLATION WAS ........... $391.00.
THE AMOUNT EARNED BY THE CANCELLATION DATE WAS ......... $199.00.
(PREMIUM $199.00, SERVICE CHARGE $0.00, SURCHARGE $0.00)
THE AMOUNT CREDITED TO YOUR ACCOUNT WAS ................ 391.00.
THEREFORE, WE WILL SEND A REFUND OF $192.00 TO THE APPROPRIATE PARTY UNDER SEPARATE COVER.
------------

The refund should have been $213.18, NOT $192.00.
1. 9/26/05 thru 3/10/06 is 166 days.
2. $391.00 premium for 365 days is $1.071232 per day.
3. 166 days @ $1.071232 is $177.82 earned premium, NOT $199.00.
4. $391.00 less $177.82 leaves $213.18.
Foremost has kept $21.18 which they are not entitled to.
It appears to me that you people are either nothing more than common thieves or just incredibly stupid when it comes to simple mathematics!

NOW you may consider the matter closed.

Former customer,
Charles

c:ripoffreport.com
-------------

I canceled the policy through the agent on 3/10/06. The agent sent me a form to sign. It was returned to the agent on 3/13/06. I received a cancellation acknowledgement from Foremost on 3/27/06, 14 days later! When the policy was started it only took 3 days for me to receive a request for payment. Full payment HAD ALREADY BEEN MADE to the agent via credit card (that was a separate mess). They took 17 days to issue the refund!

Cindy has confirmed my belief about filing a claim was right on. I hope the information provided here helps others avoid this comapany and their less than ethical practices.
Respond to this report!
What's this?

#4 Author of original report

FOREMOST: The Final Chapter

AUTHOR: Charles - (U.S.A.)

In all of the correspondence, which has been considerable, that has taken place with Foremost, ChoicePoint, and the Tennessee insurance commission each of them has exhibited the intelligence of a box of rocks when it comes to providing any useful information. Here are the last three correspondences between Foremost and myself. You can decide if this is the kind of company you would want to deal with.

------- EMAIL to Foremost 2/26/06 -------

Ms. [specialist],

No one, other than yourself, has responded. I feel certain, that if you were permitted to, you would have already provided the email address of who these are being forwarded to.

If you are forwarding these to Mr. [manager] that may explain it.

Based on his response to the Tennessee Insurance commissioner I don't believe he understands what the REAL issue is. I never "alleged" the entire increase was due to 'B' rating, (I knew it wasn't) but no one informed me, until now, exactly how much of it was. He also states I missed an 'A' rating "by a wide margin". How? Why? More vagueness. Meaningful information has been extremely difficult to come by.

He, nor the insurance commissioner, has explained why Foremost is not subject to the law: Insurer shall not ... Take an adverse action against a consumer solely because he or she does not have a credit account...

Since my revolving account has been ignored, I must assume you are requiring an installment account(s). Installment accounts must have a balance...sounds to me like I must be in debt.

Then we have the situation where ChoicePoint says the score is based on Foremost's criteria, Foremost says they "are not privy to the [ChoicePoint's] inner workings".....someone is lying to me.

In my memo "... look at the facts objectively, apply some common sense, and restore my 'A' PRL." He did not apply the "common sense" part of the equation. As a result he is not seeing beyond a flawed ChoicePoint/Foremost scoring system.

As it presently stands Foremost IS being, to use Mr. [manager]'s own words, "patently discriminatory and unfair" toward anyone who is responsible enough to get themselves out of debt before retirement.

Mr. [manager] also considers his "response sufficient reply to both [Tenn. Ins. Comm. and myself].", I do not.

Someone is yet to answer the question: What must change for me to qualify for the 'A' rating? Does Mr. [manager] (or whoever this is forwarded to) possess the strength of character to address this? We shall see.

------- Letter from Foremost 3/6/06 -----

Ms. [specialist] forwarded your February 26 email to me for review.

I regret that the response(s) we've provided have not been completely satisfactory. They were, in fact, proffered in the spirit of complete cooperation and honesty to the extent allowed by the information available to us, and the legal covenants that govern our operations.

The information you continue to press for is not insurance related, it is credit related and, specifically, it relates to what drives proprietary insurance score models. To your questions of 'what information is this message derived from?', 'how does this affect my insurance risk score?', and 'what can I do to improve this aspect of my score?'; my answer is, I honestly don't know. Quite frankly, no one else associated with Foremost Insurance Company is likely to respond differently, either. To the extent you require financial advice, you may find it appropriate to engage a financial advisor or credit counselor. Our company is not in a position to provide that service.

We appreciate the tenacity and determination you've displayed over this issue. However, because there is nothing to add to what has been already shared, we must consider the matter closed.


------- EMAIL to Foremost 3/0/06 ------

Ms. [specialist],

Please forward this final email.

Thank you.

For Mr. [manager]:

Your letter of March 6 has convinced me that your reading comprehension skills are fairly limited. You were not even able to distinguish between my questions and ChoicePoint's website information.

This was pure hypocrisy: "... to the extent allowed ... and the legal covenants that govern our operations." You have already demonstrated that the law has little meaning to you.

More BS: "The information you continue to press for is not insurance related, it is credit related ..." - YOU made it insurance related. Suggesting that I should engage a financial advisor or credit counselor proves to me you don't have a clue what the issues were. I don't believe you ever recognized the fact I do not have credit problems.

Strength of character was non-existent. You have played the corporate puppet very well and consistently avoided the issues. For my part, Foremost and ChoicePoint both lack any measure of integrity.

Interestingly, my research has uncovered a letter to the Federal Trade Commission by an individual in New Jersey in August 2004 who you screwed almost identically to what you have done to me. Care to look?:

ftc.gov/os/comments/creditscoresstudy/
510559-0101.pdf

In my opinion, Foremost has shown a blatant disregard for the law. And, from all appearances, has been quite successful in 'buying' several state insurance commissions. However, it does look like Florida would not allow your discriminatory, unfair, mis-use of credit information. Care to look?:

cej-online.org/2002Comments.pdf

I now consider myself fortunate to have never needed to file a claim with Foremost. I believe it would have been, in light of this experience, an absolute nightmare dealing with you people.

Tenacity? Damn right! I will not be treated unfairly.

I have canceled my Foremost policy and received the following notice:
---------------------------
ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF CANCELLATION FOR POLICY NUMBER 276-XXX-XXX-XXX-X 01 ISSUED BY FOREMOST INSURANCE COMPANY. COVERAGE CANCELLED ON 03/10/06 AS OF 12:01 AM STANDARD TIME. YOUR POLICY WAS CANCELLED DUE TO YOUR REQUEST.
YOUR TOTAL PREMIUM PRIOR TO CANCELLATION WAS ........... $391.00.
THE AMOUNT EARNED BY THE CANCELLATION DATE WAS ......... $199.00.
(PREMIUM $199.00, SERVICE CHARGE $0.00, SURCHARGE $0.00)
THE AMOUNT CREDITED TO YOUR ACCOUNT WAS ................ 391.00.
THEREFORE, WE WILL SEND A REFUND OF $192.00 TO THE APPROPRIATE PARTY UNDER SEPARATE COVER.
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The refund should have been $213.18, NOT $192.00.
1. 9/26/05 thru 3/10/06 is 166 days.
2. $391.00 premium for 365 days is $1.071232 per day.
3. 166 days @ $1.071232 is $177.82 earned premium, NOT $199.00.
4. $391.00 less $177.82 leaves $213.18.
Foremost has kept $21.18 which they are not entitled to.
It appears to me that you people are either nothing more than common thieves or just incredibly stupid when it comes to simple mathematics!

NOW you may consider the matter closed.

Former customer,
Charles

c:ripoffreport.com
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I canceled the policy through the agent on 3/10/06. The agent sent me a form to sign. It was returned to the agent on 3/13/06. I received a cancellation acknowledgement from Foremost on 3/27/06, 14 days later! When the policy was started it only took 3 days for me to receive a request for payment. Full payment HAD ALREADY BEEN MADE to the agent via credit card (that was a separate mess). They took 17 days to issue the refund!

Cindy has confirmed my belief about filing a claim was right on. I hope the information provided here helps others avoid this comapany and their less than ethical practices.
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#5 Author of original report

Letter to TENNESSEE INSURANCE COMMISSION requesting re-consideration

AUTHOR: Charles - (U.S.A.)

This is a letter I sent to the Tennessee insurance commission.

Sent via CERTIFIED RETURN MAIL with RETURN RECEIPT

February 25, 2006

Consumer Insurance Services
500 James Robertson Parkway, 4th Floor
Nashville, TN 37243-0574

RE: CASE # 06-XXXXX

Dear :

After our conversation on 2/13/06 I decided to send this for possible future reference.

I have received your response to my complaint. You have indicated "our mediation efforts have now been exhausted". Mediation is not what I expected. What I expected was for your department to require Foremost to comply with state law. Neither you nor Foremost have addressed that issue in a satisfactory manner.

In Mr. 's response he indicates that I think the $131 difference is entirely the result of the B' PRL. I am aware there is a rate difference between Florida and Tennessee. I expected that. There was no mention of that by me in my correspondence because that was not at issue. The issue is (and always has been) the PRL A' vs B'. That IS responsible for the $69 penalty I am being assessed. And it IS a penalty as far as I am concerned. This is the first MEANINGFUL piece of information I have seen. Until now, I had no idea what that B' was actually costing me. I knew it wasn't $131. He also says I missed an A' rating "by a wide margin". How do you arrive at this "wide margin" with nothing negative? Something stinks to high heaven here. This is an example of their vague explanations. They don't really provide any useful information as to what a person must do to correct it.

This entire fiasco is based on Foremost's Adverse Action Notice and its adverse action against a consumer solely because he or she does not have a credit account'. My statement that ChoicePoint informed Foremost that I do not have enough debt' is certainly what it sounded like to me. Quoting ChoicePoint: "# OF NON-CLOSED ACCOUNTS". From ChoicePoint's website that implies "not enough" (see enclosure #10). This is the point that seems to violate state law.

If you will take the time to look at some of the reason codes they might use you will find that a consumer has the same chance as a snowball in hell of getting a fair shake. It appears they can use ANYTHING you do with credit in a negative manner. And, by their own statements, it is proprietary and will not explain how they arrive at these scores. Further more, some of the code explanations suggest the consumer has control over who reports what and when to the credit bureaus. That does not work. I tried to get my bank to report my Visa account to Experian. They said they cannot do that. I think it was more a matter that they would not than could not. What is a consumer to do? There is no way to force them to report it. State regulatory agencies, such as yours, need to take a hard look at what we consumers are up against. Those of us that are being caught in the quagmire of statistics about credit dead-beats and insurance fraud perpetrators need some relief. If you go to the following website you will find a list of the reason codes they might use.

http://www.choicetrust.com/servlet/com.kx.cs.servlets.CsServlet?channel=affected&subchannel=creditreport#reason

In trying to get explanations from both Foremost and ChoicePoint neither will provide meaningful answers. ChoicePoint says the score is based on Foremost's criteria, therefore "we cannot tell you what it would take to get the best rating, only Foremost can tell you that." Foremost says they simply use the score provided by ChoicePoint and "are not privy to the inner workings of ChoicePoint's scoring model, and we do not know what information was looked at and weighted either positively or negatively". ONE OF THEM IS LYING! I have requested from Foremost what it would take to achieve their A' PRL. They have yet to respond with that information.

I have discovered that Experian is not reporting my Visa credit card account. I sent an Email to Foremost requesting they use Equifax, where the credit card account is listed. They have yet to respond to that request.

In addition, this comes from ChoicePoint's website:
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Question: Can ChoicePoint use another credit bureau to score my report? It might improve my score.

Answer: No. Only one credit bureau is available for use by ChoiceTrust. Because many insurance companies use a variety of different models, different bureaus, and for different underwriting/rating decisions, ChoicePoint uses one bureau to keep the site simple and to educate consumers on insurance scores and the factors that can negatively affect their score.
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Which now brings up the question of why was Experian used when ChiocePoint's website indicates they use Equifax? It could be this refers to only MY request for a report. If this is not the case, it appears I have been lied to again (see enclosure #8C).

The bottom line in all of this is Foremost is basing my lower rating solely upon credit information'. If this is not in violation of state law please explain what the purpose of that law is (see enclosure #9). There is nothing negative in my credit files. How is it that your department approved their "filed rating process" if it is in conflict with state law?

I certainly hope that ChoicePoint's use of credit information (or lack of it) as described in the enclosed excerpt from Tennessee state law does not serve to shield Foremost from being bound by the law.

As it stands now Foremost IS being, in Mr. 's own words, "patently discriminatory and unfair" to anyone who is responsible enough to get themselves out of debt before retirement.

Based on what has transpired thus far this is what, in my opinion, your position appears to be:

"This is how our complaint system works:

1. YOU write US a letter
2. WE acknowledge your letter
3. WE write THEM a letter
4. THEY write US a letter
5. WE write YOU a letter
6. WE close the case

The actual content of the letters is of little consequence. This is merely a bureaucratic process that must be followed. What is legal, just and fair simply does not enter into it.

The laws governing insurance underwriting are for OUR use, not YOURS. WE will apply them at OUR discretion and ONLY when it serves OUR purpose. They are NOT intended to benefit YOU in any way or be applied in any negative fashion toward the insurance companies. Insurance companies contribute substantial amounts of money to our politicians. We are not about to rock the boat. Sorry. WE are BIG, THEY are BIGGER, YOU are SMALL, and therefore YOU cannot prevail! Such is life."

Please, show me I am wrong.

THE FACTS

1. I have No accidents
2. I have No violations
3. I have had No claims against any insurance company
4. I have No negative information in my credit reports
5. I retired in December 2004 debt free
6. I moved to Tennessee in August 2005
7. Foremost had rated me A' for the past 2 years in Florida
8. Foremost now rates me B' for the following reasons:
a. "# OF NON CLOSED ACCOUNTS"
b. "INSUFFICIENT INFORMATION ON BANK REVOLVING ACCOUNTS"
c. "INSUFFICIENT INFORMATION ON OIL COMPANY ACCOUNTS"
d. "INSUFFICIENT INFORMATION ON SALES FINANCE ACCOUNTS"
9. Foremost has not explained what I must do to regain my A' rating, no response
10. Experian does not report my Visa credit card account
11. I requested Foremost check Equifax, where the account IS listed, no response

ENCLOSURES

1. Foremost declaration page for Tennessee insurance
2. Foremost declaration page for Florida insurance
3. Foremost Adverse action Notice
4. Two (2) C.L.U.E. reports
5. One (1) Motor Vehicle Record Report
6. Copy of Experian credit report (missing Visa account)
7. Copy of Equifax credit report (partial with Visa account)
8. Three (3) Email sequences that were exchanged between myself and Foremost
9. Excerpt from Chapter No. 527 PUBLIC ACTS, 2004 SENATE BILL NO. 2259
10. Annotated ChoiceTRUST reason codes (see item #3)

I would appreciate it very much if you would take the time to review ALL of the enclosed documentation. If, after careful re-consideration, you still feel you are unable to help me please explain why/how Foremost is not subject to state law.

Thank you,


Charles
---------------------------------------------

They called me on the telephone on 3/8/06. Why they called I have not figured out. They would not explain why Foremost was not subject to the cited law. My first opinion of their process remains in tact. They ARE a joke!
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#6 UPDATE EX-employee responds

I know all about it

AUTHOR: Cindy - (U.S.A.)

Hi Charles,

I just wanted to take a minute and respond to you. I worked at Foremost at 5600 Beechtree lane for 2 years. I was very loyal, hardworking respectful and it got me no where with them. You are absolutely right about this company and the way they treat their customers because they treat their employees just as bad. I went through the 2004 hurricane season with them and believe me, that was not fun working in the claims department for a company who does not care about its customers. There were many hours put in by us and no matter what it is not good enough. I am so glad I am out of there. The only thing I can tell you is, you are better of to find a new place to insure your bike. If you think you are mad about this, wait until you need to file a claim and see what they put you through!!
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#7 Author of original report

Tennessee Insurance Commission was a joke

AUTHOR: Charles - (U.S.A.)

I filed a complaint with the Tennessee insurance commission. Based on my interpretation of Tennessee Public Acts, 2004 Chapter 527, Senate Bill 2259, SECTION 3 (5),(6), and (7) Foremost is violating state law.

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Chapter No. 527 PUBLIC ACTS, 2004 1
SENATE BILL NO. 2259
AN ACT to amend Tennessee Code Annotated, Title 56, relative to the use of credit scores in determining personal insurance rates and renewability.
BE IT ENACTED BY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE STATE OF TENNESSEE:

SECTION 3. An insurer authorized to do business in Tennessee that uses credit information to underwrite or rate risks for personal insurance, shall not:

(5) Base an insured's renewal rates for personal insurance solely upon credit information, without consideration of any other applicable factor independent of credit information.

(6) Take an adverse action against a consumer solely because he or she does not have a credit account, without consideration of any other applicable factor independent of credit information.

(7) Consider an absence of credit information or an inability to calculate an insurance score in underwriting or rating personal insurance, unless the insurer either treats the consumer as if the consumer had neutral credit information as defined by the insurer or unless the insurer treats the consumer in a manner otherwise approved by the Commissioner of Commerce and Insurance.

SECTION 10. This act shall take effect on January 1, 2005, the public welfare requiring it.
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The response I received from them was what I call a "cookie cutter" answer. They would not explain how Foremost was circumventing the law. The best I could determine was since ChoicePoint is not subject to the law cited above and were only providing a score to Foremost, technically, Foremost was not using credit information and therefore was shielded from the law.

Basically, when all was said and done I was left with this impression of the insurance commissioner's office:
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COMMISSIONER: "This is how our complaint system works:

1. YOU write US a letter
2. WE acknowledge your letter
3. WE write THEM a letter
4. THEY write US a letter
5. WE write YOU a letter
6. WE close the case

The actual content of the letters is of little consequence. This is merely a bureaucratic process that must be followed. What is legal, just and fair simply does not enter into it.

The laws governing insurance underwriting are for OUR use, not YOURS. We will apply them at OUR discretion and ONLY when it serves OUR purpose. They are not intended to benefit you in any way or be applied in any negative fashion toward the insurance companies. Insurance companies contribute substantial amounts of money to our politicians. We are not about to rock the boat. Sorry. WE are BIG, THEY are BIGGER, YOU are SMALL, and therefore YOU cannot prevail! Such is life."
--------

The system is stacked against the individual. If you would care to see how many ways ChoicePoint can screw your insurance score go to this website and check the reasons and explanations.

http://www.choicetrust.com/servlet/
com.kx.cs.servlets.CsServlet?channel=affected&subchannel=
creditreport#reason

Some of the code explanations suggest the consumer has control over who reports what and when to the credit bureaus. That does not work. I tried to get my bank to report my Visa account to Experian. They said they cannot do that. I think it was more a matter that they would not than could not.
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#8 Author of original report

Applying for new credit cards will only serve to lower that score. Catch 22

AUTHOR: Charles - (U.S.A.)

Mike: The last time I got my credit score was in March 2005. It was 802. I think that is better than NO score. Nothing has really changed since then.

Applying for new credit cards will only serve to lower that score. Catch 22.
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#9 Consumer Suggestion

Get some credit cards, but do NOT use them.

AUTHOR: Mike - (U.S.A.)

First you should shop for insurance somewhere else. Not all companies use a credit score.

When you have nothing in your credit report, there is no way to establish a score. Having NO score is not the same as having a good score. Unfortunately a lot of companies are using credit scores for things other than borrowing money. So you have to play along.

Having credit cards doesn't compel you to pay interest or have credit card debt. Get cards with no annual fees and charge a few small things that you woud've paid cash for and pay off in full. It doesn't cost any more to do that, interest will not be charged unless it is not paid off within the month. It is a game where you have to stay on your toes to pay the bill on time and resist the temptation to overspend. Then you'll have a good credit rating but no debt.
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