• Report: #426379

Complaint Review: Gamepal - Kross Lieberman And Stone

  • Submitted: Fri, February 20, 2009
  • Updated: Mon, June 01, 2009

  • Reported By:Broken Arrow Oklahoma
Gamepal - Kross Lieberman And Stone
3209 Gresham Lake Rd + 1110 Navaho Dr # 501 Raleigh, North Carolina U.S.A.

Gamepal - Kross Lieberman And Stone, Gamepal trying to fraud again! Raleigh North Carolina

*Consumer Comment: Similair situation as you, and Advice.

*Consumer Suggestion: I think that...

*Author of original report: Thx for the info!

*Author of original report: Thx for the info!

*Author of original report: Thx for the info!

*Author of original report: Thx for the info!

*Consumer Suggestion: In the same boat as you

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Well Gamepal tried again. On Feb 12 2009 Kross Lieberman and Stone called and I missed there call so they left a voicemail saying to call loran back at a number and did not leave why she needed me to or a company name or saying she was collections so I forgot about the call from her. (Kross Lieberman and Stone is a Collection Agency apparently located across the street from Gamepal if you check on Google Maps.) Today on Feb 19 2009 They called me harassing me about some 800 bucks I owe them from gamepal about my Final Fantasy XI account I sold gamepal 2 years back.. They claimed gamepal has sent me emails saying I owe them and never have received one email at all.

I told her to send me their proof and why they were billing me this $800. She claimed Kross Lieberman and Stone received the collection on Feb 11 2009 (The next day she called me on Feb 12th remember) and has sent mail to my address, she verified the address even though I had not told her my address. Mail can't even get to my house in 8 days and that's if they sent it out the first day they received this collection on Feb 11th.

She down right said no, she's not sending anymore mail because I have not responded to the mail she had sent and the phone call she gave me. She told me to pay up now or else it was going to be put on my credit and then told me how I could pay. During the phone conversation she told me to pay or it would go on my credit and how I could pay so many times I can't even remember.

After all that I was still waking up and stupid so I gave her my credit card info after she told me she could give me my old account info for Final Fantasy XI. She then put me on hold for a few and came back and told me she could not give me my account info because I had the info already because I reactivated my old account from 2 years ago. I told her I did not have it then she laughed and said, well you better contact the person you gave it to then.

After all that and waking up more I slapped myself a few hundred times for my stupidity and called my credit card company of course and reversed the charge and changed my card number. But there is still a Collections agency after me that are oddly located across the street from Gamepal's address.

I have also emailed Gamepal about this but they just sent me like 6 computer generated emails in a few hours time talking about selling accounts. I emailed the old email account ([email protected]) that I emailed to when I sold my ffxi account to them and had troubles getting them to stop payment of ffxi for like 3 or 4 months. Im still waiting for a human to email me back but its only been one day. The emails also said the live chat would be down for a little bit but to try back later.

After all this I have read a ton online about this happening to tons of people and plan to post this everything to join in with everyone. I will never pay this money and even if I did I bet the collection agency would call me back later demanding more. This collection agency sounded really unprofessional and demanded stuff but refused to send me proof until I paid up. After I paid she said it would take some time to get the proof from gamepal. Bet I would never see any of it or even the receipt she claimed she will be sending me. I don't know if the collection agency is for real or not.

They could not have any evidence from gamepal to have a collections claim in the first place on me so im guessing gamepal and Kross Lieberman and Stone is in together on this stuff but I have no proof on that or what so called proof they have on me. All this just sounds to fishy to me and what I have read about gamepal's owners it could just be them making false evidence and the collection agencies name is getting hurt through all this.

Anyways please if you have any info to what happened to any of you about this and how you ended it with the collection agency and gamepal PLEASE email me or leave comments if you can. I plan on getting a lawyer if this goes further. Thanks for any help in advance! Now to wait till Monday so I can make some calls and report these companies of this fraud. Sorry for any bad grammar and spelling lol.

Justin
Broken Arrow, Oklahoma
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 02/20/2009 12:06 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Gamepal-Kross-Lieberman-And-Stone/Raleigh-North-Carolina-27609/Gamepal-Kross-Lieberman-And-Stone-Gamepal-trying-to-fraud-again-Raleigh-North-Carolina-426379. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 Consumer Comment

Similair situation as you, and Advice.

AUTHOR: Stronzo14 - (Australia)

It's amazing to hear so many stories about the same business...

www.gametag.com is a deadset fraudulent company/business.

I'm located outside the US (Australia) and have had a similair experience as to all of you.

I bought an account.
Never received it.
PayPal claim rejected in gametag's favour. Got a chargeback done through my back.
Got my money back.
Now receiving emails from Gametag advising me of their collections procedures with Kross.

Funnily enough, my corporate 'career' started out in collections.
I used to be a collections officer for a well known bank and now work as a fraud/credit analyst for a telecommunications company in Australia.

I am very well educated with the collections processes and laws in Australia, however I am not 100% sure of how they work in the US.
Though I'll give you a brief rundown and example of how a typically default/collections procedure works LIGITAMATELY in Australia (Could be very similair in the states) :

You need to read and understand this carefuly so you know where you stand.

Company (A) is a phone company.
Company (B) is a debt collectors agency.
Company (C) is a credit reporting agency.

- Customer creates an account with Company (A).
- Customer doesn't pay bills with company (A) for over to 100 days.
- Company (A) goes to Company (B) and files a report to chase the customer.
As soon as the report is made, Company (A) does have the right to create a Default through company (C).

(In Australia, a default only lasts 5 years. It is simply a black mark on your credit rating)

We're talking about LEGITIMATE process here through legitimate companies, so this all contradicts the possibility of www.gametag.com or Gametag processing a default on your credit files due to the fact that it is not LEGITIMATE/LEGAL... I'll explain below :

On the above example with companies (A), (B) and (C), as soon as a customer applies for a service with any business, that business/company is realistically considered one of the customer's creditors. This means that the customer called up the company, asked for a service/plan/contract and company (A) processes a CREDIT CHECK through company (C). Depending on the credit check, it will come back as either declined or approved.
As soon as that happens; On the customer's credit file, it will state 'On this date, company (A) processed a credit check.'
If the credit check is approved, the customer gets his service/product, and company (A) is considered one that customer's creditors.

I'm explaining all of this for good reason, as you can now understand the basics of what a creditor is and what a creditor has the right to do.
A creditor of course, does have the right to place a default.

Now, Gametag or gametag.com is NOT a creditor:
- You did not legitmately APPLY for a service through this business.
- Gametag did not perform a credit check on your credit file, (nor do they have the right to)
- Gametag is not even located in the same country as you.

The simple fact that the business is NOT in the same country as you, they CANNOT place a default on your credit file in the US, or any other country for that matter. A creditor or a business can only TRY to place a default in the country that the business is located in. So if Gametag is located in the Phillipines, they realistically can not affect your credit rating in the US or any other country, they can only place a default with a credit reporting agency in the Phillipines. However any business has the right to contact a Debt Collector's Agency, and this is what gametag has done.

Now that you know a bit about Creditor's, I'm going to explain what Kross can do.

As I explained above with companies A, B and C, I'll now relate it to Kross and Gametag.

- Gametag offers the sale of WoW online accounts.
- Consumer goes to www.gametag.com and buys 1 WoW account.
- Gametag takes the payment.
- Gametag does not give the consumer the account/account details.
- Consumer processes a chargeback.
- Gametag notifies consumer of collections process.
- Gametag goes to Kross and asks them to collect the debt :

This is illegal and fraud.

Once Gametag goes to Kross, they will give them a file which states the consumer's contact details, the amount and Kross will take a percentage of the debt.
Kross is the Debt Collections Agency.
They are NOT your Creditor.
Kross can only call you up, they can only bother you, and they can only send you letters for payment.
Kross CAN NOT place a default under your credit file.
This is a very big misunderstanding a lot of people have, and this why they fear debt collectors more than the actual creditor, when in fact, it is the creditor who can only process a default, simply because - They are the creditor!

Now if www.gametag.com / Gametag is not your creditor, and if Kross Collections Agency is not your creditor, then who is?

If none of them are your creditor's, how can they affect your credit rating?

They can't...for simple reasons :

- Gametag is not located in the same country as you and can only affect your credit rating in the country the company is located in.
- Gametag is not one of your creditor's.
- Kross is not one of your creditor's.

Everything I've stated here is how the collections procedures and laws work in Australia, so I don't know what the EXACT processes are in the US, though I'm sure they should be similair and at least I've educated you all a bit more and you now know where you stand.

I hope I've helped :)

Reply back for any additional comments and let me know what has happened with www.gametag.com / Gametag.

Btw, I'm happy to gather up some more information regarding this business as I'm more than happy to give them what they deserve.
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#2 Consumer Suggestion

I think that...

AUTHOR: Unhappy - (U.S.A.)

From what I am seeing, I believe that Kross, Lieberman and Stone are just blowing smoke. I know, at least in my situation that they have no proof and have asked for no proof of what Gamepal is claiming. I wrote a letter to KL&S and asked them to provide me with solid proof that this was a legitimate claim. You know what they mailed me in response? A copy of an email that Gamepal sent me. I had spoken back and forth with Gamepal in email 2-3 times saying that I had no clue what they were talking about. So basically they told me their proof was an email where Gamepal accused me of this and I denied it. That was what their "proof" was. I literally laughed when I saw that.

I also filed a complaint with the North Carolina Attorney General's Office as well as the BBB. I recieved a letter today showing that my letters had been recieved. I am happy with that and to know that my situation is being looked in to.

I think that Gamepal pays KL&S to try and "bully" and scare people into paying money. They get some people to pay, I am sure. I can see why some people would get scared. I have not noticed this going on my credit report as of yet. If it does, I will just call the Credit Bureaus and have it removed. I will also seek legal council into going after them for knowingly placing false information on my credit report. I have no problem in doing so.

I haven't seen anyone reply saying that they have seen this actually reported on their credit. I check this website every couple of days to keep an eye on that. I really hope that people will keep us updated on what happens in their situation.
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#3 Author of original report

Thx for the info!

AUTHOR: Xbones - (U.S.A.)

Thx again for the advise Kiichi! I went to my bank today and they just about told me not to worrie about it. It is going to take 30 days for my credit card to research crap and get my money back after fill out this form there sending me. The bank rep told me just to watch my credit because Gamepal and the collection agency have not poof and cant make me pay it. If they report it i can fill false claims or whatever to get it taken off because they have no proof to back it up in the first place.

It does not surprise me gamepal is not located in usa anymore with what the 19 year old owner did in the past years with his company. Fig the FBI would be after him anyways haha got me.

Anyways so far its a waiting game to get my money back on my card then after that a battle to tell the collection agency to in nice words to go jump off of a bridge if they start calling again or report it of course lol.

I will keep updating as i go and any other info to changes to anyone else would be much appreciated.
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#4 Author of original report

Thx for the info!

AUTHOR: Xbones - (U.S.A.)

Thx again for the advise Kiichi! I went to my bank today and they just about told me not to worrie about it. It is going to take 30 days for my credit card to research crap and get my money back after fill out this form there sending me. The bank rep told me just to watch my credit because Gamepal and the collection agency have not poof and cant make me pay it. If they report it i can fill false claims or whatever to get it taken off because they have no proof to back it up in the first place.

It does not surprise me gamepal is not located in usa anymore with what the 19 year old owner did in the past years with his company. Fig the FBI would be after him anyways haha got me.

Anyways so far its a waiting game to get my money back on my card then after that a battle to tell the collection agency to in nice words to go jump off of a bridge if they start calling again or report it of course lol.

I will keep updating as i go and any other info to changes to anyone else would be much appreciated.
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#5 Author of original report

Thx for the info!

AUTHOR: Xbones - (U.S.A.)

Thx again for the advise Kiichi! I went to my bank today and they just about told me not to worrie about it. It is going to take 30 days for my credit card to research crap and get my money back after fill out this form there sending me. The bank rep told me just to watch my credit because Gamepal and the collection agency have not poof and cant make me pay it. If they report it i can fill false claims or whatever to get it taken off because they have no proof to back it up in the first place.

It does not surprise me gamepal is not located in usa anymore with what the 19 year old owner did in the past years with his company. Fig the FBI would be after him anyways haha got me.

Anyways so far its a waiting game to get my money back on my card then after that a battle to tell the collection agency to in nice words to go jump off of a bridge if they start calling again or report it of course lol.

I will keep updating as i go and any other info to changes to anyone else would be much appreciated.
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#6 Author of original report

Thx for the info!

AUTHOR: Xbones - (U.S.A.)

Thx again for the advise Kiichi! I went to my bank today and they just about told me not to worrie about it. It is going to take 30 days for my credit card to research crap and get my money back after fill out this form there sending me. The bank rep told me just to watch my credit because Gamepal and the collection agency have not poof and cant make me pay it. If they report it i can fill false claims or whatever to get it taken off because they have no proof to back it up in the first place.

It does not surprise me gamepal is not located in usa anymore with what the 19 year old owner did in the past years with his company. Fig the FBI would be after him anyways haha got me.

Anyways so far its a waiting game to get my money back on my card then after that a battle to tell the collection agency to in nice words to go jump off of a bridge if they start calling again or report it of course lol.

I will keep updating as i go and any other info to changes to anyone else would be much appreciated.
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#7 Consumer Suggestion

In the same boat as you

AUTHOR: Kiichi - (Canada)

I've been getting letters and phone calls from their agency since November 08. I had a lawyer send them a letter for me telling them I contested the claim cause it was all BS honestly, and they had absolutely NO proof.

I sold Gamepal an FFXI account almost 2 years ago too, and they only came back to me November of this year for it? After e-mailing their accounts agent at gamepal, I told them that selling them an account was not a life-binding contract and that if they can't keep a password for an account in check then that is not my problem. It's been so long the account could have been bought an resold 10 times before there was any problems with it and they blame the original owner.

Well, all to say that the letter my lawyer sent them did no good. They completely ignored my request for proof or the fact that I contested the claim. I got another letter from the a few weeks ago saying I owed them still and on top of that they added 624$ to the already claimed 1400$ I supposedly owed them. I'm not sure about legal rights here, but I don't think they can legally add random sums of money without telling you what it's for.

When KLS contacted me the first few times, it was a Mrs. Scott I had to deal with. When my lawyer sent the letter, I got one from KLS from a totally different agent now. I'm assuming it's because my lawyer told them they had to contact him and not me from now on, which they didn't.

Also, Gamepal doesn't have an office in the U.S. anymore. I spoke to an ex-employee who confirmed that their offices are now all situated in the phillipenes or something, hence why you can never call them or get a proper address from them.

Isn't that a little weird that you can't contact a company you had business with?

I'm not paying them a dime of that claim. If they try to make a credit report from it, i've got documentation proving I contested the claim and they completely ignored my requests.

You should do the same. They can't really do anything if you look at it logically. You sold them an account that wasn't really yours to begin with. It's S. Enix's belongings. So they can't claim it as their own and that you took it from them - as it never belonged to them in the first place.

Should the collection contact you again, contest the claim and send them a cease and desist order so they don't contact you until they're ready to meet your demands regarding the claim. AND DON'T EVER GIVE THEM YOUR CREDIT CARD INFORMATION AGAIN! THEY ARE FRAUDS!

Best of luck.
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