• Report: #263722

Complaint Review: Green Tree

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  • Submitted: Fri, July 27, 2007
  • Updated: Sun, December 06, 2009

  • Reported By:Terre Haute Indiana
Green Tree
7360 South Kyrene Road Tempe, Arizona U.S.A.

Green Tree Just Another Statistic in the Foreclosure Circle of Life ripoff Tempe Arizona

*Consumer Comment: PLEASE IGNORE PEOPLE LIKE JIM

*Consumer Comment: BIG SCAMS!

*Author of original report: My Last Response

*Author of original report: My Last Response

*Author of original report: My Last Response

*Consumer Comment: Candice (with an i)

*Consumer Comment: To Jim

*Consumer Comment: I Think You're Mistaken....

*Consumer Comment: This is a sad entry indeed!

*Author of original report: FOR THE LAST TIME...

*Author of original report: FOR THE LAST TIME...

*Author of original report: FOR THE LAST TIME...

*Author of original report: FOR THE LAST TIME...

*Consumer Comment: You Have a Lot to Learn Angel

*Author of original report: After a Year and a Half

*Author of original report: Well...

*Consumer Comment: Come On!

*Author of original report: Perhaps I Didn't Explain Enough

*Author of original report: Perhaps I Didn't Explain Enough

*Author of original report: Perhaps I Didn't Explain Enough

*Author of original report: Perhaps I Didn't Explain Enough

*Consumer Comment: I don't think they broke the law in your case.

*Author of original report: Update

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In 2000 I decided to become a homeowner. I found a modular home and let the company find the financing for me. As a single parent this was an accomplishment for me. I was financed with a company called Green Point, I now know that's just a longer spelling for CROOK! I used my land as a down payment, the modular home company did the appraisal, it didn't appraise at the right value, so they had them go back and re-appraise it, since the rep knew the guy as a "friend" of his and said that he could get the value up for me.

So this time it passed appraisal and I was on my way to owning my first home, I had acheived the "American Dream".

We moved in April of 2000. Then the trouble began! The very first week we were there the electricity went out in the front half of the house. I had to get the modular company to come out and fix it. They were prompt and did it within 24 hours. Then even more problems began. The windows in the ENTIRE house failed to go up, I called the modular company to come out and fix this problem since it was a warranty issue, they said no it was not a warranty issue.

So I then decided to call my mortgage company and ask them if they could do something to help, hoping that they would want to "protect their assets". They said they could not help. So I was left to deal with trying to fix this problem myself, being a single parent this was almost impossible to do.

So at this point I'm just praying that my home does not catch on fire or that we need to make a quick escape through the windows for any reason as we would have been dead.

This was just my first month at my "dream home". I lived in that nightmare for 5 YEARS! After the first few months of these problems I just gave up. I did seek out legal advice and was told it would only bankrupt me since the seller and mortgage companies would just draw it out for as long as they wanted to since they had "deep pockets" in which to do that.

I even tried to "skip" a payment holding it "ransom" hoping that the mortgage company would make the home seller fix the warranty problems, all that did was put my credit rating in jeopardy and the problems never did get fixed. Then other troubles began. All of a sudden the mortgage copany was calling me and telling me that I was behind in payments, which I was not since I made the "ransom" payment to them. But they insisted that I pay them or they would take "their" house back.

Funny, all of a sudden it has become "their" house when they told me before about the warranty problems that it was "my" house and that I would have to fix the problems myself. But then more trouble started. The harrassing phone calls that started early in the morning and lasted well into the evening. The only relief I got from that was when the phone number got changed, I feel sorry for the person who got that phone number reassigned to them.

I did not want to lose my home. I refused to give in to their bullying tactics and harassment. But it was not meant for me. I had requested several times that Green Tree send me a printout of my payment history with them so I could see on paper what they had credited my account for and if I was really as far behind as they said I was, as I wanted to compare my payment receipts to theirs.

All I got from them was a phone conversation that said I had to catch my account up to date to get any sort of printout and until that happened they would continue to bill me and eventually take my house. They even went so far as to tell me that I had bounced a check but could not give me the check number so that I could verify this with my bank, but they did give me a dollar amount and ironically I was holding that cancelled check in my hand during that entire conversation, keep in mind that my mother had also sent in a check for the exact same amount and she also had her cancelled check during that conversation as well. Neither checks had bounced! (But they continued billing me that additional fee even AFTER we had both sent in the copies of our cancelled checks.)

About a year after I moved in I lost my job due to a disability. I had to go 2 years without any income at all. I had no insurance to help pay my mortgage as Green Tree told me that they did not offer this type of insurance when I got my mortgage and there was nowhere else in my city that offered this to me either as I checked around as I wanted to make every effort to make sure that I was able to keep my house in this type of event. I had to go on Welfare where I only got $289 a MONTH! I had to ask my parents to help me out to make my house payments as well as utilities.

During this time I was constantly harassed by Green Tree. This was before my phone was changed so I was getting those phone calls and being spoken to as if I were some kind of scum lower than dirt. I was already in a weakened state of physical health and was told to stay away from stress, this did not help. Many times I got off the phone from them in tears and even had to make a few trips to the hospital because of thier treatment of me. And to make matters worse, my house payment was going to go up more because it was an Adjustable Rate Mortgage. So my life was going to be getting worse.

I was trying to get Social Security, which takes some time to get, and was told by Green Tree that once I did get it to call them and they would give me a fixed rate on my mortgage and waive any fees for doing this. After I did get approved to receive benefits I did just exactly as I had been instructed to do and was told that they don't do that and wanted me to send them more money even though my mortgage was caught up by my records. They told me that there were "other" charges but could not discuss them with me.

This was my account and they could not discuss details of the billing of my account with me! Talk about a big red flag! I pretty much gave up at that point. It was then that I changed my phone number and used *67 to call them from that moment on.

As I said, this nightmare went on for 5 years. In September 2005 I just gave up and let my house go into foreclosure status and let it go back to Green Tree who seemed more than excited to finally get it back. I have heard and read that most banks don't want your property that they just want your money, but when I DID communicate with Green Tree they never wanted to work out any sort of payment arrangement. One time they called me and said they were calling to make a "payment arrangement", so I thought to myself that this was my chance to "save" my home.

So I asked her if I could send in a certain dollar amount each month, this representative told me that I had to send in the full amount due or they would take my home. I then asked her why she called me, she said to make a "payment arrangement", I told her okay, let's make an arrangement and even gave her the definition of "payment arrangement". She said to send them in the full amount and it would be caught up and wanted me to give them my checking account number so they could take that amount over the phone and charge me extra fees for that.

I told her I no longer had a checking account so she wanted me to "wire" the money to her, again paying additional fees. I told her they would get the money in so many days they said that wasn't good enough for them they needed the money that day. At that point I finally woke up and ended my nightmare, I kept that money and let it go. In December 2005 I was served papers to get out of the home that I had fought so hard to keep. My mortgage started out at $248 a month and had skyrocketed to $384 a month, despite the fact that mortgage rates had remained fixed at that time, plus property taxes and utilities.

I sat down one night after the everything was over and ready the fine print on my mortgage papers, I was sickened to see that in 10 years time my mortgage rate was going to go up to 10% and that over the 30 year term of my $50,000 I would have repaid over $150,000 for a house that just sold on the market for a MERE $19,000!

Thinking my nightmare was finally over I moved on. Until the other day when my mother tried to refinance HER home which was next door to my nightmare and found out that there was a lien placed on it by Green Tree for $50,000. This was placed on there because the home carries my name on the deed AFTER her name. And after meeting with an attorney today I find out that in the state of Indiana they can pretty much do whatever they want to do and that as a consumer who was wronged by them in multiple ways I have no legal rights to fight them!

I am not a dead beat and I did not want to lose my home nor give it back to those vultures who in turn just gave it away. I fell on hard times like many others before me.

Many have complained on here that something needs to be done. Well, I want to be that person to do something about this company. I am setting up an account on myspace dot com backslash consumers for consumers, please use underscores between the names, and look me up and let's get something done to stop this company from further ruining our lives, our parents, grandparents and even our children. You can even find me at my name at verizon dot net. Haven't we been through enough of this?

I have also been looking up attorneys who handle class action law suits and will be contacting them starting Monday and telling them to look here for reports and information.

Angel241989
Terre Haute, Indiana
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 07/27/2007 06:04 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Green-Tree/Tempe-Arizona-85283/Green-Tree-Just-Another-Statistic-in-the-Foreclosure-Circle-of-Life-ripoff-Tempe-Arizona-263722. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 Consumer Comment

PLEASE IGNORE PEOPLE LIKE JIM

AUTHOR: Kathy - (United States of America)

Angel:
He and most responders with similar content are actually from employees of the company who have been brainwashed.  Many are on the clock as they write their rebuttals.  Please try not to take their ignorant responses personally. 

This is all I will say for now.  Angel, I also have a loan from Greentree and would like very much to speak with you.

Kathy
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#2 Consumer Comment

BIG SCAMS!

AUTHOR: Aimee79 - (U.S.A.)

I DO FEEL FOR YOU, AS I KNOW HOW IT FEELS TO BE LIED TO AND HAVE YOUR HOPES UP FOR SOMETHING THAT TURNS OUT TO BE NOTHING BUT A LIE! EVERYONE HAS A LOT TO LEARN AND SOME OF THOSE COMMENTS JUST REALLY UPSET ME. THERE ARE SO MANY ONLINE SCAMS THAT PREY ON PEOPLE LIKE US AND GET OUR HOPES UP AND THEN WE GET SCAMMED FOR TRUSTING IN PEOPLE? I WAS TAUGHT THAT MOST PEOPLE WERE GENUINELY GOOD...BUT AS I GOT OLDER I FOUND THAT WAS A LIE! MY BOYFRIEND HAD GOT A CALL FROM GREENTREE AND I TOLD HIM RIGHT OFF THE BAT IT WAS A SCAM. I WISH THAT I COULD HELP YOU WITH YOUR LAWSUIT, BECAUSE I BELIEVE IT WAS A SCAM...AND LAWYERS ARE NOTHING BUT A SCAM TOO. I HOPE THINGS GET BETTER FOR YOU ANGEL...GOOD LUCK AND I HOPE YOU GET A CASE AGAINST THEM AND WIN! DON'T FEEL BAD...NO ONE KNOWS EVERYTHING!
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#3 Author of original report

My Last Response

AUTHOR: Burnt in Terre Haute, IN - (U.S.A.)

This is my last post to this complaint. This has become more like beating a dead horse, it's no use and the flies have become annoying! Yes, I know I should be complaining about the dealer who initiated the whole vicious circle that ended with the foreclosure of my home. But unless the dealer can locate those missing payments GT claims I didn't make, which I did, the dealer has no bearing here, other than the reference to warranty issues, which is now pointless since I am no longer in possession of the home. It was GT who made these claims, not the dealer, and it was the action taken by GT that cost me, the dealer had nothing to do with this action by GT, although they were probably aware of GT practices, but I still can't place the entire blame on the dealer regarding this complaint. I made my payments to GT and paid late fees they claimed I owed them (as I feared losing my home from GT's threats) but couldn't explain and still never seen this credited to my account, nor did I ever receive a copy of my account payment history that I requested SEVERAL times, which was either ignored or was told my account had to be 'current' in their records to send such history to me. But by my records I was current. With the history I would have been able to go over this and reconcile any differences either in my favor or even GT's, and would have made sure that all was corrected. Instead of becoming suspicious then that maybe something was seriously wrong. I know that with a mortgage you do end up repaying the balance borrowed plus interest, and I DID agree to those terms, I didn't agree to being lied to and deceived and treated like I was dirt. I also paid the monthly payments as agreed to, and then some. It was GT that claimed I did not, I only tried to work with them in the beginning to get it figured out, it was GT's lack of interest in working with me that led to my just giving it all up. All GT wanted was their money they claimed I owed them, despite having proof to the effect I paid them and owed them nothing more than next month's payment. What was I suppose to do, send them in copies of EVERY payment made to them to that date and trust them to figure it out? We were talking about 3 to 4 years worth of payments that I would have had to submit and let GT go through and figure out. Somehow I don't think that GT would have wanted to go that far, just based on their lack of cooperation to resolve the situation quickly and tell me what payments they claimed they didn't get. (GT wouldn't even remove the return check fee for a check that never bounced, even after receiving proof. Also, this was another payment that was not applied to my account, even though they seen the actual cancelled check, front and back. And GT tried to 'tack' on more interest to that as well, even though there was no error on my part). Even when questioning them about the amount they claimed was due I was always given a different amount, no body could explain what charge was for what or the actual amount I had to pay, which I knew to be $0 since I paid my account and was current. But they continued to argue and harass. Even today, they actually have 4 different amounts they say I owe them, the amount for the original mortgage, $48,000, the amount they have the lien on my mother's house for, $50,000, the amount they said I owed them after the sale of their house, $34,000 and the total for everything, including other fees, again not explained, $53,000, no one knows what is right, I would imagine GT has no idea either. I believe this may constitute some sort of falsification of records, but it is too late to argue anymore, both the 'missing' payment issues and all other issues I previously addressed. I have repaid several loans in my life time and have had no problem repaying them plus the interest on each one, even when I first became disabled. I always knew what amount I was financing and repaying with a fixed interest, of course payment amounts never changed and the lender NEVER kept records like GT.

Again, as stated SEVERAL times already, it was GT who said these payments weren't made, but would not back their own claims up by sending a simple payment history to me. I would have presented this information at the foreclosure hearing but I was fighting my own personal battle with my health. Doctor's thought I may have had cancer at the same time the foreclosure was happening, the battle with GT took a toll on my health. I had to decide right then and there if it was worth risking, literally, my life or to keep fighting with GT or just move on and be done with it all. Obviously I chose the latter decision. I also know if I had stayed and fought GT that I would still be fighting the same accusations today. I believe their own accounting department has many flaws and almost seems as if it were run by monkey's, just a humorous analogy here, nothing more. Also I would still be facing those hourly phone calls from those 'people' who treat you like you are scum beneath their feet. The harassing, accusing, degrading and horrible phone calls that never seemed to end. Even being called a liar by them over the phone, yet they could not explain their own charges to me. I felt, and still do, that I was right. I paid my mortgage to them, and still have the proof, for whatever good that will do me now. By the way, it was not cancer, but still serious.

I am in a better place now, with a fixed rate mortgage, very low interest rate also, thanks to my parents, mind you I can't put anything in my name until bankruptcy is done. But at a local bank, and have never missed a payment, just as I never missed with GT, on my mortgage or any other bills due. The difference is this is a local bank and I am living in an actual house built on site from the ground up with real wood, not the processed garbage they use in mobile homes that break before the mortgage or loan is paid. So I can be expecting equity to actually build up in my home. I have even had remodeling work done and the value of the house is already more than my mortgage is for. So, yes, I DID learn several lessons from this experience.

The original purpose of my complaint against GT has been lost due to all the 'dissecting and knit picking', as Candice so kindly put it. My intentions here were to simply post this, hoping that:

1. If legal action WERE taken that this would help.
2. To warn others to stay as far away from GT as possible.
3. There IS life after a devastation like this. It just takes time to get back on your feet.

Thanks to Candice for your advice about attorney's and legal aide. I was unaware there was a District Pro Bono in my area, it is not listed in the phone book, but DID find it on Indiana's web site, thank you. You actually gave me advice I was also seeking. Probably an advantage since you are also in Indiana and appear to be familiar with this type of situation. Also thank you for not judging. I also wanted to add that this TILA form you referenced is no where to be found in my mortgage packet, as I went back in and checked, twice. Don't know what good that will do now, again no attorney's or money to pursue this. I also wonder what else GT may have omitted from my mortgage packet. Again, too late now, maybe this too was the dealers fault! I also, given the responses on here, respectfully decline your offer to further discuss GT. It is obvious that out of the 5 or so responses on here, myself included, we are the only 2 who seem to care, and I am even beginning to lose interest in fighting GT.

I have once again gotten a taste of the bitter truth that GT will keep pushing forward. Putting as many honest people on the streets they can with their lies, deception, and accusations. Ruining families and wreaking havoc everywhere they do business. All because those in power who know how to stop them, won't! It is of no concern to them. They were not accused of not making payments or harassed to no end by GT, or 'ripped off' in any way, so why should they care?

It is too late for me to pursue any form of action against GT besides bankruptcy, and trying to warn EVERYONE about GT's lack of ethics and deceitful business practices. I was also hoping to accomplish this on here as well, but feel I failed somehow. I will now be on my merry little way, broken but wiser. Bankruptcy here I come!

This horse is dead!
Good-bye
Respond to this report!
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#4 Author of original report

My Last Response

AUTHOR: Burnt in Terre Haute, IN - (U.S.A.)

This is my last post to this complaint. This has become more like beating a dead horse, it's no use and the flies have become annoying! Yes, I know I should be complaining about the dealer who initiated the whole vicious circle that ended with the foreclosure of my home. But unless the dealer can locate those missing payments GT claims I didn't make, which I did, the dealer has no bearing here, other than the reference to warranty issues, which is now pointless since I am no longer in possession of the home. It was GT who made these claims, not the dealer, and it was the action taken by GT that cost me, the dealer had nothing to do with this action by GT, although they were probably aware of GT practices, but I still can't place the entire blame on the dealer regarding this complaint. I made my payments to GT and paid late fees they claimed I owed them (as I feared losing my home from GT's threats) but couldn't explain and still never seen this credited to my account, nor did I ever receive a copy of my account payment history that I requested SEVERAL times, which was either ignored or was told my account had to be 'current' in their records to send such history to me. But by my records I was current. With the history I would have been able to go over this and reconcile any differences either in my favor or even GT's, and would have made sure that all was corrected. Instead of becoming suspicious then that maybe something was seriously wrong. I know that with a mortgage you do end up repaying the balance borrowed plus interest, and I DID agree to those terms, I didn't agree to being lied to and deceived and treated like I was dirt. I also paid the monthly payments as agreed to, and then some. It was GT that claimed I did not, I only tried to work with them in the beginning to get it figured out, it was GT's lack of interest in working with me that led to my just giving it all up. All GT wanted was their money they claimed I owed them, despite having proof to the effect I paid them and owed them nothing more than next month's payment. What was I suppose to do, send them in copies of EVERY payment made to them to that date and trust them to figure it out? We were talking about 3 to 4 years worth of payments that I would have had to submit and let GT go through and figure out. Somehow I don't think that GT would have wanted to go that far, just based on their lack of cooperation to resolve the situation quickly and tell me what payments they claimed they didn't get. (GT wouldn't even remove the return check fee for a check that never bounced, even after receiving proof. Also, this was another payment that was not applied to my account, even though they seen the actual cancelled check, front and back. And GT tried to 'tack' on more interest to that as well, even though there was no error on my part). Even when questioning them about the amount they claimed was due I was always given a different amount, no body could explain what charge was for what or the actual amount I had to pay, which I knew to be $0 since I paid my account and was current. But they continued to argue and harass. Even today, they actually have 4 different amounts they say I owe them, the amount for the original mortgage, $48,000, the amount they have the lien on my mother's house for, $50,000, the amount they said I owed them after the sale of their house, $34,000 and the total for everything, including other fees, again not explained, $53,000, no one knows what is right, I would imagine GT has no idea either. I believe this may constitute some sort of falsification of records, but it is too late to argue anymore, both the 'missing' payment issues and all other issues I previously addressed. I have repaid several loans in my life time and have had no problem repaying them plus the interest on each one, even when I first became disabled. I always knew what amount I was financing and repaying with a fixed interest, of course payment amounts never changed and the lender NEVER kept records like GT.

Again, as stated SEVERAL times already, it was GT who said these payments weren't made, but would not back their own claims up by sending a simple payment history to me. I would have presented this information at the foreclosure hearing but I was fighting my own personal battle with my health. Doctor's thought I may have had cancer at the same time the foreclosure was happening, the battle with GT took a toll on my health. I had to decide right then and there if it was worth risking, literally, my life or to keep fighting with GT or just move on and be done with it all. Obviously I chose the latter decision. I also know if I had stayed and fought GT that I would still be fighting the same accusations today. I believe their own accounting department has many flaws and almost seems as if it were run by monkey's, just a humorous analogy here, nothing more. Also I would still be facing those hourly phone calls from those 'people' who treat you like you are scum beneath their feet. The harassing, accusing, degrading and horrible phone calls that never seemed to end. Even being called a liar by them over the phone, yet they could not explain their own charges to me. I felt, and still do, that I was right. I paid my mortgage to them, and still have the proof, for whatever good that will do me now. By the way, it was not cancer, but still serious.

I am in a better place now, with a fixed rate mortgage, very low interest rate also, thanks to my parents, mind you I can't put anything in my name until bankruptcy is done. But at a local bank, and have never missed a payment, just as I never missed with GT, on my mortgage or any other bills due. The difference is this is a local bank and I am living in an actual house built on site from the ground up with real wood, not the processed garbage they use in mobile homes that break before the mortgage or loan is paid. So I can be expecting equity to actually build up in my home. I have even had remodeling work done and the value of the house is already more than my mortgage is for. So, yes, I DID learn several lessons from this experience.

The original purpose of my complaint against GT has been lost due to all the 'dissecting and knit picking', as Candice so kindly put it. My intentions here were to simply post this, hoping that:

1. If legal action WERE taken that this would help.
2. To warn others to stay as far away from GT as possible.
3. There IS life after a devastation like this. It just takes time to get back on your feet.

Thanks to Candice for your advice about attorney's and legal aide. I was unaware there was a District Pro Bono in my area, it is not listed in the phone book, but DID find it on Indiana's web site, thank you. You actually gave me advice I was also seeking. Probably an advantage since you are also in Indiana and appear to be familiar with this type of situation. Also thank you for not judging. I also wanted to add that this TILA form you referenced is no where to be found in my mortgage packet, as I went back in and checked, twice. Don't know what good that will do now, again no attorney's or money to pursue this. I also wonder what else GT may have omitted from my mortgage packet. Again, too late now, maybe this too was the dealers fault! I also, given the responses on here, respectfully decline your offer to further discuss GT. It is obvious that out of the 5 or so responses on here, myself included, we are the only 2 who seem to care, and I am even beginning to lose interest in fighting GT.

I have once again gotten a taste of the bitter truth that GT will keep pushing forward. Putting as many honest people on the streets they can with their lies, deception, and accusations. Ruining families and wreaking havoc everywhere they do business. All because those in power who know how to stop them, won't! It is of no concern to them. They were not accused of not making payments or harassed to no end by GT, or 'ripped off' in any way, so why should they care?

It is too late for me to pursue any form of action against GT besides bankruptcy, and trying to warn EVERYONE about GT's lack of ethics and deceitful business practices. I was also hoping to accomplish this on here as well, but feel I failed somehow. I will now be on my merry little way, broken but wiser. Bankruptcy here I come!

This horse is dead!
Good-bye
Respond to this report!
What's this?

#5 Author of original report

My Last Response

AUTHOR: Burnt in Terre Haute, IN - (U.S.A.)

This is my last post to this complaint. This has become more like beating a dead horse, it's no use and the flies have become annoying! Yes, I know I should be complaining about the dealer who initiated the whole vicious circle that ended with the foreclosure of my home. But unless the dealer can locate those missing payments GT claims I didn't make, which I did, the dealer has no bearing here, other than the reference to warranty issues, which is now pointless since I am no longer in possession of the home. It was GT who made these claims, not the dealer, and it was the action taken by GT that cost me, the dealer had nothing to do with this action by GT, although they were probably aware of GT practices, but I still can't place the entire blame on the dealer regarding this complaint. I made my payments to GT and paid late fees they claimed I owed them (as I feared losing my home from GT's threats) but couldn't explain and still never seen this credited to my account, nor did I ever receive a copy of my account payment history that I requested SEVERAL times, which was either ignored or was told my account had to be 'current' in their records to send such history to me. But by my records I was current. With the history I would have been able to go over this and reconcile any differences either in my favor or even GT's, and would have made sure that all was corrected. Instead of becoming suspicious then that maybe something was seriously wrong. I know that with a mortgage you do end up repaying the balance borrowed plus interest, and I DID agree to those terms, I didn't agree to being lied to and deceived and treated like I was dirt. I also paid the monthly payments as agreed to, and then some. It was GT that claimed I did not, I only tried to work with them in the beginning to get it figured out, it was GT's lack of interest in working with me that led to my just giving it all up. All GT wanted was their money they claimed I owed them, despite having proof to the effect I paid them and owed them nothing more than next month's payment. What was I suppose to do, send them in copies of EVERY payment made to them to that date and trust them to figure it out? We were talking about 3 to 4 years worth of payments that I would have had to submit and let GT go through and figure out. Somehow I don't think that GT would have wanted to go that far, just based on their lack of cooperation to resolve the situation quickly and tell me what payments they claimed they didn't get. (GT wouldn't even remove the return check fee for a check that never bounced, even after receiving proof. Also, this was another payment that was not applied to my account, even though they seen the actual cancelled check, front and back. And GT tried to 'tack' on more interest to that as well, even though there was no error on my part). Even when questioning them about the amount they claimed was due I was always given a different amount, no body could explain what charge was for what or the actual amount I had to pay, which I knew to be $0 since I paid my account and was current. But they continued to argue and harass. Even today, they actually have 4 different amounts they say I owe them, the amount for the original mortgage, $48,000, the amount they have the lien on my mother's house for, $50,000, the amount they said I owed them after the sale of their house, $34,000 and the total for everything, including other fees, again not explained, $53,000, no one knows what is right, I would imagine GT has no idea either. I believe this may constitute some sort of falsification of records, but it is too late to argue anymore, both the 'missing' payment issues and all other issues I previously addressed. I have repaid several loans in my life time and have had no problem repaying them plus the interest on each one, even when I first became disabled. I always knew what amount I was financing and repaying with a fixed interest, of course payment amounts never changed and the lender NEVER kept records like GT.

Again, as stated SEVERAL times already, it was GT who said these payments weren't made, but would not back their own claims up by sending a simple payment history to me. I would have presented this information at the foreclosure hearing but I was fighting my own personal battle with my health. Doctor's thought I may have had cancer at the same time the foreclosure was happening, the battle with GT took a toll on my health. I had to decide right then and there if it was worth risking, literally, my life or to keep fighting with GT or just move on and be done with it all. Obviously I chose the latter decision. I also know if I had stayed and fought GT that I would still be fighting the same accusations today. I believe their own accounting department has many flaws and almost seems as if it were run by monkey's, just a humorous analogy here, nothing more. Also I would still be facing those hourly phone calls from those 'people' who treat you like you are scum beneath their feet. The harassing, accusing, degrading and horrible phone calls that never seemed to end. Even being called a liar by them over the phone, yet they could not explain their own charges to me. I felt, and still do, that I was right. I paid my mortgage to them, and still have the proof, for whatever good that will do me now. By the way, it was not cancer, but still serious.

I am in a better place now, with a fixed rate mortgage, very low interest rate also, thanks to my parents, mind you I can't put anything in my name until bankruptcy is done. But at a local bank, and have never missed a payment, just as I never missed with GT, on my mortgage or any other bills due. The difference is this is a local bank and I am living in an actual house built on site from the ground up with real wood, not the processed garbage they use in mobile homes that break before the mortgage or loan is paid. So I can be expecting equity to actually build up in my home. I have even had remodeling work done and the value of the house is already more than my mortgage is for. So, yes, I DID learn several lessons from this experience.

The original purpose of my complaint against GT has been lost due to all the 'dissecting and knit picking', as Candice so kindly put it. My intentions here were to simply post this, hoping that:

1. If legal action WERE taken that this would help.
2. To warn others to stay as far away from GT as possible.
3. There IS life after a devastation like this. It just takes time to get back on your feet.

Thanks to Candice for your advice about attorney's and legal aide. I was unaware there was a District Pro Bono in my area, it is not listed in the phone book, but DID find it on Indiana's web site, thank you. You actually gave me advice I was also seeking. Probably an advantage since you are also in Indiana and appear to be familiar with this type of situation. Also thank you for not judging. I also wanted to add that this TILA form you referenced is no where to be found in my mortgage packet, as I went back in and checked, twice. Don't know what good that will do now, again no attorney's or money to pursue this. I also wonder what else GT may have omitted from my mortgage packet. Again, too late now, maybe this too was the dealers fault! I also, given the responses on here, respectfully decline your offer to further discuss GT. It is obvious that out of the 5 or so responses on here, myself included, we are the only 2 who seem to care, and I am even beginning to lose interest in fighting GT.

I have once again gotten a taste of the bitter truth that GT will keep pushing forward. Putting as many honest people on the streets they can with their lies, deception, and accusations. Ruining families and wreaking havoc everywhere they do business. All because those in power who know how to stop them, won't! It is of no concern to them. They were not accused of not making payments or harassed to no end by GT, or 'ripped off' in any way, so why should they care?

It is too late for me to pursue any form of action against GT besides bankruptcy, and trying to warn EVERYONE about GT's lack of ethics and deceitful business practices. I was also hoping to accomplish this on here as well, but feel I failed somehow. I will now be on my merry little way, broken but wiser. Bankruptcy here I come!

This horse is dead!
Good-bye
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#6 Consumer Comment

Candice (with an i)

AUTHOR: Jim - (U.S.A.)

I hope I got that right...?

The only reason I think the home builder's role in this is relevant is because they set Angel up for the disaster that befell her. She would never had gotten mixed up with a crappy lender and a crappy loan without the builder. Bottom line. Yet, she never chides or identifies the builder as someone who ripped her off. In fact, she even states this in the OP:

"I used my land as a down payment, the modular home company did the appraisal, it didn't appraise at the right value, so they had them go back and re-appraise it, since the rep knew the guy as a "friend" of his and said that he could get the value up for me. So this time it passed appraisal and I was on my way to owning my first home, I had acheived the "American Dream". "

As you said before - she was victimized by this company and didn't even know it. If you could imagine this... GT would not allow the loan to occur until the MH builder manupulated the value of the house up (thereby misstating the apparent equity in the house) so she would qualify for the loan. I wish that was considered fraud, but it isn't. You can say it's irrelevant - however if it weren't for the MH builder manipulating values, Angel would not be in this situation.

I understand what you're saying about letting her see what's in her account; and ultimately they probably should have now that I think about it - only because I don't know if it would have done that much good - it would not have changed the situation one bit. I also think we overstate the situation to assume there are accounting irregularities (though the cancelled/bounced checks?? hmmm...) - without either of us looking at the account, and Angel really not knowing much of anything regarding the accounting of her loan (even if they did show it to her). I guess I look at this in a big picture sort of way; Angel couldn't afford the house and the predatory loan she got - accounting errors or not - and what was taken away from her was something she should not have been able to obtain in the first place. That's why I blame the MH builder more - and GT less.

Insofar as your last paragraph, I'm sure attorneys occasionally use the site to investigate current lawsuits they are working on that they obtained from their new or existing clients. However, an attorney is not going to troll the site looking for new clients like Angel; that's not what the site is for, the quote you cited doesn't indicate that's what the site is for, and that is how I wished my comment should be interpreted. I apologize for lack of clarity. I personally liken those attorneys to ambulance-chasers.

As far as class-action lawsuits go.... I suppose it depends on the company to be sued. GT isn't exactly big pockets anymore, so no one is going to go after them in this situation or the purchasing company - long-term class action or otherwise because of the investment the law firm has to make to pursue the lawsuit. On top of this, class action lawsuits suck for everyone except the lawyers, who pocket big-time fees (after many years of litigating) while the victims who were ripped off, get to experience being ripped off again.

The way GT and companies like them are going to be stopped is when the issuance of predatory loans is made illegal and the standards institutions use to determine loan viability are strengthened. What I fear are thousands of people like Angel are around and there is nowhere they can go to be made whole again. Again, the loans are there - and the builders know what these lenders are - yet the builders steer their next victim to the shark.....
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#7 Consumer Comment

To Jim

AUTHOR: Candice - (U.S.A.)

It appears to me that although the root of Angel's entry starts with the dealer, it seems her issues clearly are indeed with GT/GP and the fact GT/GP claimed they did not receive their money, which Angel has also clearly stated was sent in, and also stated by Angel that proof of said payments exist. It is from GT/GP's own lack of accurate accounting and record keeping practices that the majority of complaints stem from. Which ultimately ends up in the consumer losing the home due to GT/GP's harassment and unwillingness to disclose details of the consumers own account. Which may have been avoided had GT/GP simply suspended additional fees incurred on the account while the details of payments are worked out and applied, avoiding repo/foreclosure altogether. As Angel stated also, her requests for payment history was denied. She couldn't very well go back to the dealer to make them give her a payment history the mortgage loan company held in its possession just because the dealer found the financing for her, just as she could not ask the mortgage company to coerce the dealer into fixing problems with the house after the dealer had already been paid. This denial would make anyone suspicious of what GT/GP was trying to hide or get away with, a practice which is also illegal under TILA.

Whether the dealer should be held accountable for finding Angel financing is really irrelevant at this point. Clearly it was GT/GP who denied her access to her own account records and clearly it was GT/GP's accounting errors that ultimately ended up costing Angel her home. So it seems the mortgage company really is the party to be held accountable for mistakes in handling this consumer account, not, as you stated, the dealer. As for GT/GP losing money from a bad mortgage deal set up by the dealer, GT/GP, as previously stated, insures all of its loans from the start because of the high risk involved in financing individuals with low credit scores, the only loss to GT/GP is the additional interest it would have made from the loan, which is why GT/GP has been bought by another company who rescues nearly bankrupt companies and turns them and makes a profit then by reselling. Angel has a clear cut case here, it's just too bad no body will listen.

As for my own confusion regarding you, Jim, I apologize. Both entries appeared to be from the same author as both were badgering and harping on previously stated, and even unrelated, issues.

And to your last comment regarding 'Attorney's trolling this site', this is a bit disturbing to me. It is actually stated on the home page of this very site that, and I am quoting here, 'Many law firms and law enforcement agencies utilize Ripoff Report to aid in their investigations of business practices.' And is also stated right below is the 'Media Attention' disclaimer, further down the page are also instructions for 'Organizing class action lawsuits'. Is this a misconception to all on here who are asking for legal action against companies such as GT/GP to assume that lawyer's are really monitoring this site, when, according to you, they are not?

Signed,
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#8 Consumer Comment

I Think You're Mistaken....

AUTHOR: Jim - (U.S.A.)

Angel, as I said - you entered into this without an education. You had a lot of choices - and in the end you had someone else make those choices for you. You're blaming a mortgage company when you should be blaming the people who sold you a home - remember they are the ones who ended up manipulating the appraisal value of your MH upward so you could get a loan. And when they sold your home for $19,000. when the mortgage on your home was $50,000? And you want to blame the mortgage company?

I personally would never get a MH because of the various land scams that MH builders like to piggyback on, and because there's no upside on the financial end of owning a MH, but owning a MH might be OK for others. I make no judgments there.

I doubt seriously at this point you can pursue this with attorneys for a couple of reasons (1) because it will take forever to get a judgment and you don't have the means to see this through to the end, and (2) because they've done nothing wrong from what you've written.

There are so many people in your boat in this country - not because of some unscrupulous mortgage company - but because they got in over their heads with their home counting on the fact that their equity in their homes would make them rich over time, or at least help them if they got sick.

Finally, this is not a site where, and I'm quoting you, "I thought the whole purpose of this website was to post your complaint WITHOUT someone judging your situation but rather hoping that a LEGAL Professional in the poster's own AREA would contact them and offer a solution to the problem."

If you want free legal advice, this is not the site to find it - lawyers don't troll this site. You ended up with me who has bought and sold properties, and once dealt with a company like GT. You received my assessments based on my experience. GT offers crap loans to people who couldn't get a loan any other way. So, congrats - you got a crap loan. And who set you up with them? YES, THE PEOPLE WHO SOLD YOU YOUR HOME. That's who you should be filing your report against. They royally screwed you over for a sale!!

To the other responder - there are a lot of people named Jim in this country; to assume we're the same person is not only illogical, it is factually the case that we are not the same person.

Now, there are a couple of things I absolutely agree with you on though: (1) the dealer preyed on the fact that she was a single parent and took full advantage of her situation. (2) It is sad that a $50,000 mortgage was drawn out to sell a home valued for much less, quite possibly only $25,000 to start, Angel really got taken to the cleaners on this one. Both are very salient points.

So again, why blame the mortgage company? Could it possibly be that GT was ripped off in this deal as well by the MH company? ABSOLUTELY! WITHOUT A DOUBT! They were manipulated by the MH company. GT isn't going to be able to collect a dime from Angel until her mother sells her place and the lien is satisfied through the sale. Having said that, do I feel bad for GT? NO. That's their problem now.

I have very serious problems with people who get taken to the cleaners like Angel did, and then blame the wrong company or people for her problem because they don't know any better. Clearly, she didn't or wouldn't have gone to GT on her own. From her own admissions, she let others do this for her - again a mistake she would probably admit. Is it her fault she got sick? Absolutely not.

However, the standards for qualifying to get a mortgage used to be much higher than what they are because income requirements were higher. You could get sick for a period, have enough time to review your options, and then figure out whether to sell the home and arrange for alternative living arrangements, or refinance to a lower payment.

Once she got sick, she was in trouble - and she admits that by her own writing. For now, I'll ignore the rest of the ranting - the illogical thinking that somehow the Jim from New York and I are one and the same (which may be the cause of some of the ranting), and the other garbage tossed about.

I'll end with this: Angel was unfortunate to run into a really awful homebuilder to try and live the American Dream, and it turned into a nightmare. I've seen the scams played out and they're pretty awful. But, like Angel, most of that fault lies with the homebuilder/seller, but it also partially lies with buyer (in this case, Angel) for reasons already said. Knowledge and education are power (money isn't always power) and they mean everything in order to avoid RE scams.

She knows now - but it's a pretty expensive education; not the just the lien on mom's house, but her own financial situation, the trashing of her credit rating. As I stated initially it's a sad posting.
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#9 Consumer Comment

This is a sad entry indeed!

AUTHOR: Candice - (U.S.A.)

And not because of Angel. You have clearly stated your complaint, or argument as Jim has described it in your other entry. Jim, why on earth would someone spend their hard earned money on repairs to a home that already had a home warranty on it that was probably already paid for by the consumer? Many manufactured home warranties cover everything from the floor to the roof and everything in between and all usually last between 2 to 5 years, not 1 to 3 months.

I am new to my entries on this site but had to chime in on this particular entry as it caught my attention, being from Indiana also. I have been researching Green Tree and Green Point for some time now, since Conseco went bankrupt and GT broke away. I am not a lawyer, but am interested in this company as many in my area, hundreds, have lost homes to them. After seeing so many complaints I am beginning to see why so many are losing their homes. Angel, I would welcome the opportunity to talk to you sometime about what you know about this company. Maybe compare notes, as it sounds you are well versed on its practices.

Now to Jim. Angel has clearly stated she felt she was current on her payments and the company refused to send her a payment history of her account. Point made, no need to further explain. Why are you badgering her on this subject? Are you an employee of this company? Why call someone a liar when you do not know the entire story? Shame on you, you need to have a complaint filed against you! It seems based on Angel's entry, and many other's like her, this company has lied to her and even harassed her. Since when is that legal? Or when is it legal for a company to not disclose charges on the account? If they want her to pay these charges then it is her account. And by calling her and discussing/requesting payment and other information with her about this account is, in the state of Indiana, giving permission to access the account in question as long as her name is on it. If it were not her account, as you stated, then why not call some other schmuck and demand payment from them? The fact is the Truth in Lending Act (TILA) makes it her account and gives her every right to access it and ask all the questions she wants to ask about it, and GT/GP must answer them. The FDCPA may not apply to GT/GP, but TILA does.

You seem to also be forgetting the privacy act as well. Her social security number appears on the loan papers and it is information reported to the agencies about her, therefore, it is her account and she has every right to it, and GT/GP has no right to disclose any information on said account without the written authorization from the account holder. If this is not her account, as you stated, then her problem is solved. Angel, just tell them Jim of New York, NY or Anaheim, CA or wherever he is at tomorrow, said this is not your account and you deny all knowledge of it, that'll get 'em off your back.

My suggestion to Angel is to find a lawyer in Terre Haute that handles both real estate laws and bankruptcy. It's going to take someone with a vast knowledge of both to help you out of this situation. I know there are many there, if income is an issue, try Legal Aide, or even your local District Pro Bono, look it up on the Indiana web site to find your local district.

In the year 2000 and even before, Green Tree and Green Point Credit, which eventually ended up being the same company, were the only companies to finance the sale of manufactured homes to consumers. So, yes the dealer and the lender actually did have a relationship and the dealer did take a 'kick back' for the sale.

In fact, GT/GP did not pay the dealer until the final walk through inspection with the dealer and consumer and if any problems were found at that time then GT/GP made the dealer go back and fix the problems before paying the dealer, this is still a common practice today. Many dealer's usually hurried the final walk through inspection, many times overlooking obvious problems they may have already known existed, simply to get paid their commissions and move on. It's a shame Angel's problems weren't found earlier, or she didn't know or possibly have the means to hire a professional home inspector to take the walk through with her.

Angel is correct in her statement that there are no lawyer's in her area, or even in this state that want to handle this type of issue, it doesn't matter how strong the case. Because of income level's in Indiana and the fact manufactured homes are easier and quicker to build and even quicker to set-up and move into, there are many manufactured home dealers in Indiana. Many who have the same habits such as the one she dealt with, preying on the naiveness of consumers. Lawyer's will not take any case involving litigation against them as it overall bankrupts both the lawyer and consumer. Since the consumer usually starts out with, many times, less than perfect credit and limited cash flow, it is easier to just file bankruptcy and get out from under a bad mortgage deal such as this. The same principle applies to GT/GP. All will keep the cases tied up in the courts for years. Indiana is working on improving consumer protection laws, but is still lacking in many areas, including predatory lending and situations such as this which really would not fall solely as predatory lending. It is still illegal though, to deny access to one's account, or to not apply payments made and demand payment for the same amount when proof has been submitted previously. Check your TILA forms that should have been included with your original mortgage papers. Also harassing, insulting and overall bullying to get a payment, or even adding unexplained extra fees, according to Angel's entry, are also illegal. Since foreclosure has already occurred though, Angel has no other recourse but to file bankruptcy at this point.

Unfortunately Angel made the mistake of going with a manufactured home to begin with. Although I understand the decision, it seems it may have been based on her income, MH's are like cars and depreciate in value, which is where many in my area are also getting hurt, and the same holds true all over the country. They lose value, as Angel found out.

It is sad that a $50,000 mortgage was drawn out to sell a home valued for much less, quite possibly only $25,000 to start, Angel really got taken to the cleaners on this one. Also as Angel stated in another entry, GT/GP insures every mortgage/loan it writes, whether the loan is kept in good standing or defaulted on, GT/GP still gets the full amount mortgaged by the buyer in addition, as Angel stated, also collecting any fees from the sale of the home, many times which are also refinanced with GT/GP. Why doesn't GT/GP offer this same insurance protection to their buyer should they fall on hard times?

It also sounds like the dealer preyed on the fact that she was a single parent and took full advantage of her situation. This is how many consumers wind up in bankruptcy court. Manufactured Home dealers make the promise of obtaining the American Dream sound so simple and prey upon the naive consumer simply to line their own pockets.

Jim, you told her to try home ownership, looks to me like she did, as have just about everyone else who has ended up in her situation. True, the dealer may have offered a deal that seemed too good to pass up and led her to believe she could afford it, and having an ARM probably told her, as many have done up here, that she could simply refinance later and get a better fixed rate, only to be told they did not offer it when the time came around. You also said her 'conspiracy theories' were a bit much. Based on your badgering of her it would seem that was all that was left in her arsenal to make her point to you.

Quite frankly, I don't think anything Angel said would have made a difference in your opinion of her situation, as it seems you have already made your mind up she is just irresponsible, illiterate trailor park trash. Why such a low judgment of someone? Don't bother responding, we pretty much know how you feel already. All she wanted was to live in a home of her own and fell on hard times.

Many banks would welcome the chance to work with a consumer to make payments rather than take back the property, since the real estate market is growing more unstable by the day. Either fixing the interest rate to a lower more affordable rate, deferring payments, or even offering refinancing with a fixed rate as well, even if it meant taking a slight loss on either mortgage interest or principle, instead of a serious loss in the mortgage loan altogether by selling it for less than half of what the value was. But GT/GP is the exception to the rule in this case, again cornering the market on MH sales and even refinancing their own foreclosures, thus getting commission as well as closing costs. GT/GP still makes money on their home.

The bottom line here, Jim:

1. Dealer - like many dealers - preyed upon a single parent and seen $$ signs. It's too bad she couldn't have gone to a local bank that offered disability insurance as well as a fixed rate mortgage, as Angel stated that she had 'perfect credit' with her bank. Doesn't sound like someone who was planning to default on a mortgage to me.

2. Angel - shame on you for getting sick and being an illiterate, irresponsible, non-paying consumer! Even though you claim to have proof of payments made. Jim seems to somehow have that crystal ball that has told him you are lying and fabricating this whole thing. He has already made up his mind that all the complaints on here are self-inflicted and none of the companies in question are at fault. Stop beating yourself up trying to explain your point of view to him, it's no use and a waste of the energy you'll be needing to file your bankruptcy with GT/GP.

It seems you have learned dearly and also made a costly mistake trusting someone, who Jim can probably relate to, to find financing with such a ruthless company such as GT/GP. I would still like to get in touch with you, Angel, and discuss GT/GP.

As for you, Jim, stop badgering people. They have been through enough already. Leave well enough alone. It is obvious they had problems that caused their situations to go south to start, they don't need someone else pointing out the obvious. Their complaints are about the business practices of harassment, lies, and deceits and so much more, which is illegal in every state. They are only explaining their situations as to how it culminated to the level it had.

Nitpicking their complaints and harping over minor details that have already been explained to death does not offer a much sought after solution. No one deserves to be treated the way they state in their complaints. GT/GP gets paid whether the loan stays good or not, it's in their own business reports. The company truly does not care either way about the consumer and therefore does not care if they get their payment from the consumer or their own insurance company. Taking their houses back is just an added bonus for them.

Signed,
Candice
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#10 Author of original report

FOR THE LAST TIME...

AUTHOR: Angel241989 - (U.S.A.)

I PAID MY MORTGAGE ON TIME AS PER THE AGREEMENT BETWEEN ME AND GREEN TREE! IT WAS GREEN TREE THAT 'CLAIMED' I DID NOT MAKE MY MORTGAGE PAYMENTS, AS I HAVE STATED OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER... WHEN I SENT IN PROOF, ON NUMEROUS TIMES, IT WAS IGNORED BY THEM! AS FAR AS SAYING THAT I HAD NO IDEA ABOUT THE REAL ESTATE INDUSTRY, YOU ARE RIGHT THERE. BUT IT ISN'T THE REAL ESTATE INDUSTRY THAT SCREWED ME OVER, IT WAS A CROOKED LOAN COMPANY, GREEN TREE!

I thought the whole purpose of this website was to post your complaint WITHOUT someone judging your situation but rather hoping that a LEGAL Professional in the poster's own AREA would contact them and offer a solution to the problem. Not a third party who HAS NO IDEA about the laws and regulations that apply to the posters area in which they are replying/judging about, much less someone who has only skimmed over my complaint from the start! (You even accused me of being misinformed about my own mortgage agreement saying it was NOT a mortgage when in fact it was. And have also accused me of being ignorant to my own situation.)

So unless you have a degree in real estate law and are licensed to practice in the state of INDIANA, which you have stated you do not, kindly leave your judgment/remarks for the next poor soul you decide to target/stalk! I am tiring of having to explain my situation over and over to someone who only sees the corporate side of things and has no jurisdiction in the state of Indiana.
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#11 Author of original report

FOR THE LAST TIME...

AUTHOR: Angel241989 - (U.S.A.)

I PAID MY MORTGAGE ON TIME AS PER THE AGREEMENT BETWEEN ME AND GREEN TREE! IT WAS GREEN TREE THAT 'CLAIMED' I DID NOT MAKE MY MORTGAGE PAYMENTS, AS I HAVE STATED OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER... WHEN I SENT IN PROOF, ON NUMEROUS TIMES, IT WAS IGNORED BY THEM! AS FAR AS SAYING THAT I HAD NO IDEA ABOUT THE REAL ESTATE INDUSTRY, YOU ARE RIGHT THERE. BUT IT ISN'T THE REAL ESTATE INDUSTRY THAT SCREWED ME OVER, IT WAS A CROOKED LOAN COMPANY, GREEN TREE!

I thought the whole purpose of this website was to post your complaint WITHOUT someone judging your situation but rather hoping that a LEGAL Professional in the poster's own AREA would contact them and offer a solution to the problem. Not a third party who HAS NO IDEA about the laws and regulations that apply to the posters area in which they are replying/judging about, much less someone who has only skimmed over my complaint from the start! (You even accused me of being misinformed about my own mortgage agreement saying it was NOT a mortgage when in fact it was. And have also accused me of being ignorant to my own situation.)

So unless you have a degree in real estate law and are licensed to practice in the state of INDIANA, which you have stated you do not, kindly leave your judgment/remarks for the next poor soul you decide to target/stalk! I am tiring of having to explain my situation over and over to someone who only sees the corporate side of things and has no jurisdiction in the state of Indiana.
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#12 Author of original report

FOR THE LAST TIME...

AUTHOR: Angel241989 - (U.S.A.)

I PAID MY MORTGAGE ON TIME AS PER THE AGREEMENT BETWEEN ME AND GREEN TREE! IT WAS GREEN TREE THAT 'CLAIMED' I DID NOT MAKE MY MORTGAGE PAYMENTS, AS I HAVE STATED OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER... WHEN I SENT IN PROOF, ON NUMEROUS TIMES, IT WAS IGNORED BY THEM! AS FAR AS SAYING THAT I HAD NO IDEA ABOUT THE REAL ESTATE INDUSTRY, YOU ARE RIGHT THERE. BUT IT ISN'T THE REAL ESTATE INDUSTRY THAT SCREWED ME OVER, IT WAS A CROOKED LOAN COMPANY, GREEN TREE!

I thought the whole purpose of this website was to post your complaint WITHOUT someone judging your situation but rather hoping that a LEGAL Professional in the poster's own AREA would contact them and offer a solution to the problem. Not a third party who HAS NO IDEA about the laws and regulations that apply to the posters area in which they are replying/judging about, much less someone who has only skimmed over my complaint from the start! (You even accused me of being misinformed about my own mortgage agreement saying it was NOT a mortgage when in fact it was. And have also accused me of being ignorant to my own situation.)

So unless you have a degree in real estate law and are licensed to practice in the state of INDIANA, which you have stated you do not, kindly leave your judgment/remarks for the next poor soul you decide to target/stalk! I am tiring of having to explain my situation over and over to someone who only sees the corporate side of things and has no jurisdiction in the state of Indiana.
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#13 Author of original report

FOR THE LAST TIME...

AUTHOR: Angel241989 - (U.S.A.)

I PAID MY MORTGAGE ON TIME AS PER THE AGREEMENT BETWEEN ME AND GREEN TREE! IT WAS GREEN TREE THAT 'CLAIMED' I DID NOT MAKE MY MORTGAGE PAYMENTS, AS I HAVE STATED OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER... WHEN I SENT IN PROOF, ON NUMEROUS TIMES, IT WAS IGNORED BY THEM! AS FAR AS SAYING THAT I HAD NO IDEA ABOUT THE REAL ESTATE INDUSTRY, YOU ARE RIGHT THERE. BUT IT ISN'T THE REAL ESTATE INDUSTRY THAT SCREWED ME OVER, IT WAS A CROOKED LOAN COMPANY, GREEN TREE!

I thought the whole purpose of this website was to post your complaint WITHOUT someone judging your situation but rather hoping that a LEGAL Professional in the poster's own AREA would contact them and offer a solution to the problem. Not a third party who HAS NO IDEA about the laws and regulations that apply to the posters area in which they are replying/judging about, much less someone who has only skimmed over my complaint from the start! (You even accused me of being misinformed about my own mortgage agreement saying it was NOT a mortgage when in fact it was. And have also accused me of being ignorant to my own situation.)

So unless you have a degree in real estate law and are licensed to practice in the state of INDIANA, which you have stated you do not, kindly leave your judgment/remarks for the next poor soul you decide to target/stalk! I am tiring of having to explain my situation over and over to someone who only sees the corporate side of things and has no jurisdiction in the state of Indiana.
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#14 Consumer Comment

You Have a Lot to Learn Angel

AUTHOR: Jim - (U.S.A.)

This is a sad posting. It is obvious you were unprepared and uneducated on the home ownership process from the start. However, you are not alone Angel. There are thousands of people in this country who get taken to the cleaners because they know nothing about the matters you bring up in your complaint.

It's clear the lender did nothing wrong from what you wrote; the company that put you into the home did far greater disservice by putting you into a home you were unprepared to own and unable to afford. Before you even make the decision of buying a home, you need to understand everything about home ownership and it is clear you went into the process of buying a home completely uneducated. You did not understand anything about the mortgage and the consequences of an ARM, nothing about how much you would pay total out-of-pocket, nothing about accepting the responsibility of calling a repair company to fix your home when something breaks (whether it is under warranty or not is immaterial - you couldn't afford to have a repair person come and fix the problems once the warranty expired based on your own writings) - I mean I could go on and on. The home builder put you into the only type of loan I suspect you could afford, which was probably the worst kind (an ARM with a teaser rate) a consumer could get, but you didn't know any better because you knew nothing about the mortgage process.

Ultimately, when you stopped paying Green Tree and incurred additional fees and penalties for late payment, you lost control of the entire process - and you encountered their idea of a payment arrangement, which was to have you pay everything. A payment arrangement as you defined it, put the arrangement on your terms; as you don't have the luxury to quote terms to a mortgage company, you have to abide by their terms, so what you think the definition of an arrangement really is - means nothing. It's their definition that means everything.

You wanted home ownership but know nothing about affording a home. You blame mortgage companies for your problems, you think attorneys are too expensive (if you think attorneys are expensive - try home ownership!), you wanted access to what you think is your account (it isn't your account - it's their account on you and you aren't entitled to see their account on you unless they agree to give you that access), the thought that somehow repossessing a dog house would elicit media, governmental, or even some NGO responses, your conspiracy theories.... it's all a bit much.

Bottom line - there are TWO guilty parties here that everyone who reads this should know and identify with this entire episode:

1. The company that sold Angel the home - Angel was in no position to own a home, the company selling her the home adjusted the appraisal so she would qualify for the home. You think they did you a favor by doing what they did? What they did was sell you down the river!! What they should have told you is, "you don't qualify to own one of our homes." It might have hurt to hear that, but it would have saved you the trouble you're now in.

2. Angel - for not knowing anything about buying a home, mortgages, accounts, the law, creating her own problems, and then not taking accountability for those issues and problems she caused by blaming others.

At least your account is with a 3rd party agency, meaning they have to abide by the FDCPA and that should eliminate the all hours of the day phone calls that Green Tree was allowed to make (as they don't have to abide by the FDCPA). Unfortunately, you still have much to learn and it doesn't sound like you've started down that path based on your responses to people like me who own homes, deal with lenders, and know better.....
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#15 Author of original report

After a Year and a Half

AUTHOR: Angel241989 - (U.S.A.)

They started calling my home today! But not to worry, I'm writing down EVERY single time they call and what is said and to whom! I have also let my mother know since her number is also listed in the phone book if they start calling her to take down the person's name, time, and what was said in the conversation.

I am hoping they tell her details about my account since she is a third party and does not have access to my account. I'm also working with my congressman's office who has a 'friend' in the US Attorney General's office.

Also in the process of trying to get my own attorney to file Chapter 7 and finally be done with these 'vultures'. But even Bankruptcy Attorney's don't come cheap around here. One even chargers $1,500 just for attorney fees PLUS $279 filing fee! Outrageous! But I know that there are cheaper attorney's around here, I just have to find them!

Ironic that they start calling after a year and a half when I have been in the public phone book all this time but only AFTER I have started posting on here and speaking to my Congressman and also at other sites about them as well.
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#16 Author of original report

Well...

AUTHOR: Angel241989 - (U.S.A.)

Unless there is a different way to spell attorney I haven't seen in Webster's, I'm positive this advice came from a local attorney! And the home in question was a modular ATTACHED to a parcel of land as a package deal, so therefore in the state of Indiana and as noted on my loan papers, it is considered and termed a MORTGAGE! (I even just check them about 5 minutes ago for your very own amusement!)

And since when is being lied to and refused overall access to your own account records legal? As well as not explaining charges on your account and applying erroneous fees that should never have been there to begin with.

I would further explain why I feel they broke the law in my case, but quite frankly, I don't think you would see my point through your rose colored glasses of the world of business.

And if GT would rather have had their money, why then are they always so eager to tell every single poster on this site that they are going to come and take their homes and to pitch a tent somewhere? Doesn't sound like a company that is willing to work out a payment agreement with someone.

There are about 390+ posts about this 'company' and its business practices and I have read just about every single one of them and the more I read the more disgusted I get that nothing has been done to stop this kind of treatment of human beings.

Rest assured if this were a local animal shelter treating animals like this there would be media coverage all around the country, or if this happened to people in a third world country there would also be a media frenzy. People, like yourself, do not think or believe that this really happens in this country. The truth is that it does and it's happening with this very 'company'. And sadly if you cannot fathom the concept that not all companies operate within the guidelines of the law then you are so very wrong and mistaken!

These 'companies' are everywhere! They are usually small and get shut down before it escalates to this multitude of consumers involved. GT always manages to fall under the radar of government simply because of the lack of evidence from the consumer versus the word of a multi billion dollar company. The saying, 'he who has the gold, rules', applies perfectly here.
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#17 Consumer Comment

Come On!

AUTHOR: Jim - (U.S.A.)

I agree with Nikki. Angel, I would not with any hardships upon you but most of your problems here are coming from a lack of knowledge with the finance industry in general. Everything with the litigation and collection on your mortgage appears legit in IN. Also the amount you will repay is right inline with your interest rate.

You chose to buy this home for $50k, you chose the builder and you agreed to the repayment terms. I think you got some bad advice with this ransom payment. Having worked in this industry for years, that is one of the worst ideas I have heard.

Are you sure this came from an attorney? I know you are having some tough times but I think this is a case of inexperience on your part. Also, I am sure Green Tree would rather have their money vs the home (Mobile Homes are depreciating assets) but when payments get behind they have to protect the collateral.

This is why repo times on a MH are much shorter than foreclosure on an FHA insured mortgage. Please understand what you are just reading out there is probably geared toward a traditional mortgage and not a MH.

Good luck and may you have at least learned some lessons for the next goaround in your financial life.
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#18 Author of original report

Perhaps I Didn't Explain Enough

AUTHOR: Angel241989 - (U.S.A.)

First let me say, "judge not lest you be judged". Try reading my entire story rather than skimming. I never said that I was going to refinance my home, I never had that option. I believe in my original text though I said that my mother was going to refinance HER home and could not because my name was on the deed also and this "company " placed a lien on it.

It was not just the repairs that were a concern, it overall became a war of "he said she said" regarding payments that I DID make to this "company" and the fact that they said I did NOT make them, and YES I do have COPIES of ALL payments made to them, which never helped. I still maintain that my house payments were made and that I was not in any sort of fault on my mortgage until I let it go back to Green Tree.

It's hard to argue with a multi-billion dollar company who refuses to send a copy of my own account payment history from their files. You can't reconcile your check book without a bank statement can you? How could they expect me to send them money I felt I did NOT owe to them just based on their word when my OWN records showed that I was caught up?

If your mortgage company told you that you owed them a payment that you KNOW you made and had the cancelled check in your possession and they couldn't back up their claim, would you pay it again? Of course not, who throws money away just because someone tells them, or in this case demands them to, besides the rich and spoiled? Even sending them in copies of all payments made, fronts AND backs, never helped as I was still treated like dirt and told to pay up or lose my home!

I never intended to lose my home and made EVERY good faith effort to try to work with them in the beginning. But after about 4 and a half years of arguing over these so called payment issues or supposedly lack of, I had to quit. It was taking a serious toll on my health and I felt that this war was just not worth fighting anymore that my own health was more important.

When consulting with attorney friends I was informed that it would do no good to try to fight them in court as they would keep it tied up in litigation for years. Any repairs needed to the house quickly took a back seat to this new set of problems.

If you have ever dealt with this company you would understand the situation better, or perhaps you should read the other 185 + complaints regarding this company on this site, or maybe even look up the BBB unresolved complaints against them, there are plenty in every state and almost all deal with the same type of problem with this "company" saying that payments were not made or that the consumer was lied to by them or even harassed or worse! I am not an attorney myself, but I think that these types of complaints constitute lending fraud of some type or some sort of fraud and harassment.

As far as the lending practices, I was informed by an ATTORNEY in my city that DID say that the mortgage company could "push" the builder to honor their warranty repairs and it would overall be in their own best interest to do so and was advised by that same attorney to hold that payment as "ransom" to get their attention which did not work and they still received that payment!

As one voice nothing can be done, no body listens to a faint voice in the crowd crying for help, however hundreds of voices crying out at the same time are heard loud and clear! This "company" is crooked and legal action of some type is needed to put them out of business once and for all!
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#19 Author of original report

Perhaps I Didn't Explain Enough

AUTHOR: Angel241989 - (U.S.A.)

First let me say, "judge not lest you be judged". Try reading my entire story rather than skimming. I never said that I was going to refinance my home, I never had that option. I believe in my original text though I said that my mother was going to refinance HER home and could not because my name was on the deed also and this "company " placed a lien on it.

It was not just the repairs that were a concern, it overall became a war of "he said she said" regarding payments that I DID make to this "company" and the fact that they said I did NOT make them, and YES I do have COPIES of ALL payments made to them, which never helped. I still maintain that my house payments were made and that I was not in any sort of fault on my mortgage until I let it go back to Green Tree.

It's hard to argue with a multi-billion dollar company who refuses to send a copy of my own account payment history from their files. You can't reconcile your check book without a bank statement can you? How could they expect me to send them money I felt I did NOT owe to them just based on their word when my OWN records showed that I was caught up?

If your mortgage company told you that you owed them a payment that you KNOW you made and had the cancelled check in your possession and they couldn't back up their claim, would you pay it again? Of course not, who throws money away just because someone tells them, or in this case demands them to, besides the rich and spoiled? Even sending them in copies of all payments made, fronts AND backs, never helped as I was still treated like dirt and told to pay up or lose my home!

I never intended to lose my home and made EVERY good faith effort to try to work with them in the beginning. But after about 4 and a half years of arguing over these so called payment issues or supposedly lack of, I had to quit. It was taking a serious toll on my health and I felt that this war was just not worth fighting anymore that my own health was more important.

When consulting with attorney friends I was informed that it would do no good to try to fight them in court as they would keep it tied up in litigation for years. Any repairs needed to the house quickly took a back seat to this new set of problems.

If you have ever dealt with this company you would understand the situation better, or perhaps you should read the other 185 + complaints regarding this company on this site, or maybe even look up the BBB unresolved complaints against them, there are plenty in every state and almost all deal with the same type of problem with this "company" saying that payments were not made or that the consumer was lied to by them or even harassed or worse! I am not an attorney myself, but I think that these types of complaints constitute lending fraud of some type or some sort of fraud and harassment.

As far as the lending practices, I was informed by an ATTORNEY in my city that DID say that the mortgage company could "push" the builder to honor their warranty repairs and it would overall be in their own best interest to do so and was advised by that same attorney to hold that payment as "ransom" to get their attention which did not work and they still received that payment!

As one voice nothing can be done, no body listens to a faint voice in the crowd crying for help, however hundreds of voices crying out at the same time are heard loud and clear! This "company" is crooked and legal action of some type is needed to put them out of business once and for all!
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#20 Author of original report

Perhaps I Didn't Explain Enough

AUTHOR: Angel241989 - (U.S.A.)

First let me say, "judge not lest you be judged". Try reading my entire story rather than skimming. I never said that I was going to refinance my home, I never had that option. I believe in my original text though I said that my mother was going to refinance HER home and could not because my name was on the deed also and this "company " placed a lien on it.

It was not just the repairs that were a concern, it overall became a war of "he said she said" regarding payments that I DID make to this "company" and the fact that they said I did NOT make them, and YES I do have COPIES of ALL payments made to them, which never helped. I still maintain that my house payments were made and that I was not in any sort of fault on my mortgage until I let it go back to Green Tree.

It's hard to argue with a multi-billion dollar company who refuses to send a copy of my own account payment history from their files. You can't reconcile your check book without a bank statement can you? How could they expect me to send them money I felt I did NOT owe to them just based on their word when my OWN records showed that I was caught up?

If your mortgage company told you that you owed them a payment that you KNOW you made and had the cancelled check in your possession and they couldn't back up their claim, would you pay it again? Of course not, who throws money away just because someone tells them, or in this case demands them to, besides the rich and spoiled? Even sending them in copies of all payments made, fronts AND backs, never helped as I was still treated like dirt and told to pay up or lose my home!

I never intended to lose my home and made EVERY good faith effort to try to work with them in the beginning. But after about 4 and a half years of arguing over these so called payment issues or supposedly lack of, I had to quit. It was taking a serious toll on my health and I felt that this war was just not worth fighting anymore that my own health was more important.

When consulting with attorney friends I was informed that it would do no good to try to fight them in court as they would keep it tied up in litigation for years. Any repairs needed to the house quickly took a back seat to this new set of problems.

If you have ever dealt with this company you would understand the situation better, or perhaps you should read the other 185 + complaints regarding this company on this site, or maybe even look up the BBB unresolved complaints against them, there are plenty in every state and almost all deal with the same type of problem with this "company" saying that payments were not made or that the consumer was lied to by them or even harassed or worse! I am not an attorney myself, but I think that these types of complaints constitute lending fraud of some type or some sort of fraud and harassment.

As far as the lending practices, I was informed by an ATTORNEY in my city that DID say that the mortgage company could "push" the builder to honor their warranty repairs and it would overall be in their own best interest to do so and was advised by that same attorney to hold that payment as "ransom" to get their attention which did not work and they still received that payment!

As one voice nothing can be done, no body listens to a faint voice in the crowd crying for help, however hundreds of voices crying out at the same time are heard loud and clear! This "company" is crooked and legal action of some type is needed to put them out of business once and for all!
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#21 Author of original report

Perhaps I Didn't Explain Enough

AUTHOR: Angel241989 - (U.S.A.)

First let me say, "judge not lest you be judged". Try reading my entire story rather than skimming. I never said that I was going to refinance my home, I never had that option. I believe in my original text though I said that my mother was going to refinance HER home and could not because my name was on the deed also and this "company " placed a lien on it.

It was not just the repairs that were a concern, it overall became a war of "he said she said" regarding payments that I DID make to this "company" and the fact that they said I did NOT make them, and YES I do have COPIES of ALL payments made to them, which never helped. I still maintain that my house payments were made and that I was not in any sort of fault on my mortgage until I let it go back to Green Tree.

It's hard to argue with a multi-billion dollar company who refuses to send a copy of my own account payment history from their files. You can't reconcile your check book without a bank statement can you? How could they expect me to send them money I felt I did NOT owe to them just based on their word when my OWN records showed that I was caught up?

If your mortgage company told you that you owed them a payment that you KNOW you made and had the cancelled check in your possession and they couldn't back up their claim, would you pay it again? Of course not, who throws money away just because someone tells them, or in this case demands them to, besides the rich and spoiled? Even sending them in copies of all payments made, fronts AND backs, never helped as I was still treated like dirt and told to pay up or lose my home!

I never intended to lose my home and made EVERY good faith effort to try to work with them in the beginning. But after about 4 and a half years of arguing over these so called payment issues or supposedly lack of, I had to quit. It was taking a serious toll on my health and I felt that this war was just not worth fighting anymore that my own health was more important.

When consulting with attorney friends I was informed that it would do no good to try to fight them in court as they would keep it tied up in litigation for years. Any repairs needed to the house quickly took a back seat to this new set of problems.

If you have ever dealt with this company you would understand the situation better, or perhaps you should read the other 185 + complaints regarding this company on this site, or maybe even look up the BBB unresolved complaints against them, there are plenty in every state and almost all deal with the same type of problem with this "company" saying that payments were not made or that the consumer was lied to by them or even harassed or worse! I am not an attorney myself, but I think that these types of complaints constitute lending fraud of some type or some sort of fraud and harassment.

As far as the lending practices, I was informed by an ATTORNEY in my city that DID say that the mortgage company could "push" the builder to honor their warranty repairs and it would overall be in their own best interest to do so and was advised by that same attorney to hold that payment as "ransom" to get their attention which did not work and they still received that payment!

As one voice nothing can be done, no body listens to a faint voice in the crowd crying for help, however hundreds of voices crying out at the same time are heard loud and clear! This "company" is crooked and legal action of some type is needed to put them out of business once and for all!
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#22 Consumer Comment

I don't think they broke the law in your case.

AUTHOR: Nikki - (U.S.A.)

I'm not an attorney, but I don't think Green Tree broke the law. First let me say I am very sorry that hardships fell on you. I would never wish that on anyway.

When you purchased your home, the modular home company found financing for you, but that doesn't mean that they are affiliated with Gree Tree. Green Tree did not sell you the home. Green Tree loaned you the money so you could buy the home from someone else.

Basically Green Tree loaned you $50,000 cash and you paid the builder $50,000 cash. It is not their responsibility to make sure your home is fixed and you cannot withhold payment from them waiting for another company to fix it.

The home problems were between you and the builder, and the loan was between you and Green Tree. There was nothing between Green Tree and the builder once Green Tree paid them on your behalf. Green Tree couldn't go to the builder and say they would not pay until the work was completed because they already paid them the full amount.

As for the bounced check they say you made, did you make copies of each and every payment you made throughout the years to show them that none bounced? Anyway, it doesn't really matter now that they have foreclosed.

As for the refinancing, why would they want to let you refinance? It sounds if you have been in dire straits during the entire loan, and they probably did not want to give you a better rate. At least if the rate stays high, they can get as much money out of you before you foreclose. Paying $150,000 for a $50,000 home? Welcome to mortgages and home ownership. My home loan is $335,000 and I will have paid $900,000 once the 30 years are up.

As for the lien, a lien will get placed on any property you legally own (whether you are a joint owner or not). They have every right to place the lien on your mother's home if your name is on it too. Too bad you didn't know to take her home out of your name when you went into foreclosure.

As your attorney told you, you really weren't legally wronged. You cannot blame Green Tree for trying to get the money back that they loaned you. If I loaned someone $50,000 and they weren't making their payments, I'd be calling them everyday and placing liens too.

Hope everything starts looking up for you.
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#23 Author of original report

Update

AUTHOR: Angel241989 - (U.S.A.)

I also failed to mention that in my meeting with the attorney today, since there is a lien on my mother's house if I were to file Chapter 7 Bankruptcy that I might still have to pay an amount to this company that the Chapter 7 will not remove the debt completely from my mother's house. However, using the method he used I would still owe them the amount of $0! Since he said that there is a "formula" to determining how much I would still owe them.

This "formula" is based on the assessed value of my mothers home as well as dividing the amount it was assessed for by 2 and deducting the "homestead exemption" from that amount, which totaled a big fat $0! Also I created a myspace account xx. please use underscores between the last three names also I can be emailed at verizon xx.

CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.
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