- Report: #1015510
Report - Rebuttal - Arbitrate
Complaint Review: Green Van Lines
Green Van Lines4015 BELTLINE RD, Addison, Texas United States of America
Green Van Lines According to another report on this site, StateWide Relocation - now known as Swift Moving - is actively involved in Green Van Line activities They like as easily as they breathe and use intimidation like an art form. Beware! They have no respect for law. Addison, Texas
*Author of original report: Green Van Lines - They Lie As Easily As They Breathe. Beware! This company has no respect for law.
For those who would prefer not to read the long version of our experience with Green Van Lines, here is the bullet list summation:
- Green Van Lines misrepresented the use of recycled packing materials. They did not use them.
- Green Van Lines misrepresented that they owned the all of the trucks and that it would be just their company handling our belongings from start to finish. They specifically warned us not to use a moving company that brokered trucks to move belongings. They said most of them were frauds... then they brokered our move without notifying us - which is illegal as I understand it.
- Green Van Lines assured us their bid of $15,200.00 was on the high side and there would be no upcharge surprises, and then they up charged us 58% - total of $24,000.00 $8800.00 more than their original bid when they arrived on moving day.
- Green Van Lines did not disclose company upcharge policies in a forthright manner or give us the pamphlet of our rights and responsibilities as required by law.
- Packers left garbage at the moving site despite the promise they would leave the premises with all of their packing debris.
- Packers didnt properly pack fragile items. Irreplaceable ceramics, pottery, blown glass art, and pictures packed without any wrapping or care to prevent breakage. One silk wall hanging left on rod and packed with garden tools. Multiple broken items from what we haveunpacked so far.
- Lead packer, Paul, took my husband aside after I called Green Van Lines to dispute the 58% upcharge and told him to tell me to back off of confronting Green Van Lines or else we would be charged more.
- Delivery was made by a different company altogether and did not use bio-diesel fuel as advertised (see misrepresentation above).
- Delivery driver expected us to set up tow truck for unloading tractor that we were up charged for by Green Van Lines at the start of the journey.
- Green Van Lines refused to honor federal law that required them to unload our belongings at 10% above your original bid and pay balance when everything was completed.
- Green Van Lines required us to pay them a full $12,000.00 (half the total bill) in cash before unloading anything from the truck. When we entered the truck to make sure our belongings were there, we discovered our possessions took up only slightly more than half the truck when we'd been upcharged for using 80%+ of the truck.
The full story
When we first contacted Green Van Lines primarily because of the advertisement on their website that they use recycled materials for packing and used bio-diesel fuel - for our cross country move from central Florida to the Greater Seattle area, we spoke with Arthur Fromin. He cautioned us from getting set up with a moving company that brokered trucks to do the move. He also told us to beware of fraudulent companies that bid low and then up-charged extravagantly on the moving day. He assured us that his company owned all of the trucks they used to move clients. He also promised to bring his bid in high so that we could be assured there would be no surprise charges on moving day.
Arthur said his company did telephone estimates. My husband toured the house reporting what was in each room while Arthurrecorded the information for his bid. On several occasions, I overheard Arthur writing down something different than my husband reported. For example, my husband told him we had a small tractor with attachments. Arthur wrote that down as a riding lawn mower. On no occasion did Arthur askwhat the square footage of a room was or what we used it for. Nor did he at any time offer us the option ofa visual estimate... or have us sign a waiver for the visual estimate which I've learned since he is required to by federal law. His estimate for packing and moving all of our materials came in at $15,200.00 substantially higher than the other bids we got, but he promised it was on the high side and would probably come down on moving day
he just didnt want us to have any pricing surprises. We decided to go with Green Van Lines because Arthur seemed to be a forthright and honest person of integrity, and it was important to us to use a "green" company that. We made sure he understood that once we closed the sale on Florida property we would need to be packed and have our possessions moved within 36 hours.
Moving day came. A crew of six packers drove up from Miami, arriving just before noon in a HUGE truck that couldnt make it through our gate onto the driveway. Thehead packer, Paul, went through our home, claiming in loud dismay that we had far more to pack and load than the original bid estimated. He said they would have to hire a flatbed tow truck to lift the tractor into the truck (a $500 dollar up charge on either end even though the tow truck was only charging $60 - $80) Upcharge after upcharge. They said our load would take 3200 3400 cubic feet when the original estimate was 2000 cubic feet. Before they would start packing anything, we had to sign a contract that agreed to pay up to $24,000.00 for the move - $8800.00 or a 58% increase above the original estimate. When we asked them how they were going to get us all packed and loaded in the time frame we needed it done (especially now that they hadnt arrived until noon and spent a good 1 to 1.5 hours re-negotiating the price and had to walk our belongings out to the road where their truck was), they said no problem they could still pack and load in the same time frame. Only the price would go up. The packers also promised they would clean up all of their packing debris before leaving our property. We felt "cornered" into the deal - like a dentist upcharging his work with a drill in our metaphorical mouths. They said they would walk away or only take the amount they deemed worthy of the original estimate if we chose, but we were contractually obligated to have all of our belongings off of the property for the new owner. We felt we had no choice but to take their "deal".
The first thing we noticed was that they werent using recycled packing materials. They had six people packing our home who went through in a whirlwind of activity. It was difficult to monitor, let alone assess the standard of their packing technique at that point we just had to trust and hope for the best.
In the midst of this, I contacted Arthur to discuss the $8800.00 upcharge. I sent him an email, explaining that while I understood how an estimate can easily vary 10% in one direction or another, 58% seemed exorbitantly high to me. I wrote that I wanted them to share the burden of the increase with us since they were ultimately responsible for the bidding system they used, and it was obviously flawed to be so far from the mark. Arthur called me right away and told me all responsibility for accurately describing belongings was on us that we should have modified the inventory sheet he sent us to make it more accurate. I told him we had tried to read through the inventory sheet he sent, but the language was idiosyncratic to their system, and we could only trust that he had made a high estimate to adjust. I made it clear to him that our only leverage would be to write reviews and make appropriate complaints based on our experience at the completion of our transaction and that I was hoping Green Van Lines would step up and share the cost of the pricing mistake with us. He said he would see what he could do. I thanked him, and the conversation ended.
Later that afternoon, the head packer pulled my husband aside and told him to tell me to stop confronting Arthur or else Arthur was going to make him unpack and put everything in separate boxes so that the load would take up as much space as possible, thereby justifying the $8800.00 upcharge. From that point on, both Paul (the head packer) and Arthur took every opportunity to tell Alan that the way they were saving us money was to not charge more than $24,000.00 which, they said, by their company policy they could. By the way, the companys upcharge policy was never disclosed to us before signing agreements.
Despite Pauls promise to take all their packing debris and waste with them, they left all of their garbage on site with paper cups strewn across the yard. When Arthur called my husband later that evening to see how the packing and loading went, my husband told him about the garbage. Arthur became aggressive in demanding that either my husband say he was satisfied with the packers or agree to go back and meet the packers so they could clean up the garbage left. My husband was not only busy with other details of our move, he had also cleaned up the debris already. He felt put in a very awkward position by Arthur and, ultimately, just said he was satisfied to be able to get off of thephone with Arthur. My husband did ask Arthur if since we were paying for almost the entire truck ($26,000 was the original price Arthur quoted us to rent the entire truck and get delivery made directly from the pick-up to our new home), could they deliver directly and help us save money on the other end by not waiting an extra 5 days for the truck to make other stops. Arthur said no.
Needless to say, our experience with Green Van Lines to this point left us wondering if we were dealing with a legitimate moving company so we started reading more reviews. As we read about more and more negative experiences with Green Van Lines, we decided wed better make sure our belongings were unloaded successfully before giving them another $12,000.00 in cash. (Did I mention they only take cash?) My husband emailed Arthur, explaining our concerns based on the 58% up charge and other issues wed had during the packing and loading phase, and asked for confirmation that our belongings would be unloaded before we made final payment. Arthur said no. Arthur said Green Van Lines had to protect itself from dishonest clients who wouldnt make full payment, and that we would be required to pay $12,000.00 in cash to have our belongings delivered. We would just have to trust Green Van Lines to do right by us.
My husband searched the internet and found an article that cited a law that required moving lines to release a clients belongings for 10% above the original estimate. My husband sent Arthur the link and offered to pay $5,000.00 when the truck arrived (bringing the total to $17,000.00 which was just over 10% above the original estimate) and the remaining $7000.00 upon completion. Arthur said no. As the only concession Arthur would make to our concerns, we did get permission to board the truck and make sure all of our belongings were present. Interestingly, while checking the truck to ensure our possessions were there, my husband noted that our belongings took up 2400 cubic feet, only 400 more than the original bid rather than 1200 to 1400 more as Green Van Lines claimed.
Concurrent to this, we received a call from the delivery guys two Eastern European fellows who worked for Swift Moving Lines. Yet another fraudulent claim by Arthur Fromin that their company owned all of the trucks that made deliveries. The driver said that he expected us to contact a flatbed tow truck and have it at the house for them (Even though wed been charged $500 already by Green VanLines to do it) I contacted Arthur and asked him to show me the language in the contract that required us to obtain the flatbed tow truck. Arthur replied with an apology and said he would take care of it. Unfortunately, given our previous experiences, the fact that I even had to contact him about it did not sit wellwith me. I believed and still believe it would have been left for us to do if I hadnt been assertive as there is no real Green Van Lines standard of monitoring the move only a brokerage company that contracts out all of the pieces of the move, collects the money, and leaves the rest to chance. Again, much different than how they advertise.
The delivery drivers arrived in a truck labeled Swift Moving Lines. I asked, and they said it was not a Green Van Lines truck, they were not Green Van Lines employees, and the truck did not use bio-diesel fuel as promised (Another fraudulent claim on the part of Green Van Lines)
As we unpacked our belongings, it became clear how the packers made such good time very few items were wrapped to protect against breakage. Ceramics, blown glass pieces, wall art much of it put into boxes without any padding. Several of my one-of-a-kind art pieces destroyed (but we didnt purchase the very expensive insurance... if only wed known we were being packed by packers that didnt care how the items arrived possibly because they wouldnt be there to answer for it.) I found one silk wall hanging packed on its rod with garden tools.
They didnt take the time to remove and fold it into a box. To be fair, some items were well packed. It seemed to depend totally on the individual packer there was no company standard.
After we had our belongings back in our possession, I emailed Arthur to remind him that I had taken copious notes and would be writing a review and making complaints to the appropriate agencies. He left messages on our voicemail that he was surprised and baffled by our experience that no one had ever had a bad word to say him before us. I referred him to two review websites, yelp.com and reviewamover.com, to debunk that notion for him. He asked what was required to make us satisfied customers, and I told him a $6000.00 refund would do it. He said he would forward all of my information to his CEO and asked for 48 hours to make the situation right. I gave him 24 hours. I did receive an offer from the CEO, Guy Cohen, for $700.00 (then upped it to $1000.00 when we rejected the $700.00) if we would not submit our review for others to read we decided if they were serious about their reputation as an honest and reputable company, they would have made a serious offer to right the situation so refused it. Now I am making it my part time job to make sure no else gets taken advantage of by Green Van Lines the way we were.
Thank you for taking the time to read this. Please share it if you know anyone who is looking for a moving company.
This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 02/16/2013 05:55 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Green-Van-Lines/Addison-Texas-75001/Green-Van-Lines-According-to-another-report-on-this-site-StateWide-Relocation-now-known-1015510. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.
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