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  • Report: #199346

Complaint Review: Greentree Financial

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  • Submitted: Mon, July 03, 2006
  • Updated: Wed, February 28, 2007

  • Reported By:El Paso Texas
Greentree Financial
800 Landmark Towers 345 St. Peter St. St. Paul, Minnesota U.S.A.

Greentree Financial, Green Tree ripoff, credit charges that don't allow paying principle, harassment, dishonesty El Paso Texas

*Consumer Comment: hidden costs and late postings

*Consumer Suggestion: It is in there.

*Consumer Suggestion: It is in there.

*Consumer Suggestion: It is in there.

*Consumer Suggestion: It is in there.

*Consumer Comment: to the employee

*UPDATE Employee: Employee Response

*Consumer Suggestion: Bankruptcy again?

*Consumer Suggestion: Bankruptcy again?

*Consumer Suggestion: Bankruptcy again?

*Consumer Suggestion: Bankruptcy again?

*Consumer Comment: For the So Called Green Tree Employee

*UPDATE Employee: I am sympathetic to your situation, but...

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I bought a double wide manufactured home from a dealer and Green TreIe was the credit provider. This purchase was made right after my divorce that ended 27 years of marriage. I bought this acre of land in Los Lunas, New Mexico for a price of 40,000. I was a bit distraught over my divorce and looking for a place to live. The total bill was 103,000. It is a nice 2 x 6 constructed home on a permanent foundation. Green Tree financed the deal.

I was clearing only $1700 a month and the payment was about $900.
Soon I realized I had a lot of bills that I had made and had to go bankrupt ten years ago. I did but I exempted my manufactured home. Green Tree demanded that I sign a letter that would require me not to go bankrupt on that note for 15 years. My lawyer at the time advised me that I should sign because anyway I could always refinance withing a short time. No one will refinance a manufactured home that isn't your home of residence.

A new job came up where I was making twice as much money in take home pay. It was in Texas where I live now. I rented the manufactured home in New Mexico for a $250 monthly loss. That was all the market would bare. During this time I was losing my brother to cancer and was the only family member who could donate bone marrow. Insurance didn't pay those travel expenses. I got behind in the payments. Green Tree Charged my account about $4000 in legal fees and tacked in onto the principle owed. They then charged about $2000 in late fees.

OK, I continued to rent the place and requested they send me an itemization of the legal charges. They still, today, haven't complied with my request. My balance is $108,000. The house is in a location where there are few comparables but it will not get that money on sale. I will be in a short sale position on the house.

I believe that Green Tree financed the house on fraudulent appraisal values. I believe Green Tree will finance on any appraisal. I believe Greentree should have gotten their own appraisal.

I have been called and harassed. I have called them many times to explain the situation and all I contacted were rude disrespectful agents. I asked them to refinance me in order to make the rental more profitable for me. I have owned the house for 10 years. I have paid them well in excess of $100,000 and the principle hasn't been touched. At this rate the house will never be paid. What a deal for Green Tree.

I have tried with many different companies and they won't refinance on a rental property. I can't get out of this deal with Green Tree. They charge so much when I pay on the 15th of the month instead of the 1st and that is how they justify it.
I have to pay on the 15th. What happened to a 15 day grace period and a reasonable fee for being late like other mortgage companies do. I feel trapped.

I dislike this companies demeanor and its interactions with customers. I believe they set this up so people would fail and that they would get rich.

Something must be done about a company like this. It is a big purchase, the most expensive when you buy a home. Where are the government regulations? Where is Consumer Protection? HELP!!

Dan
El Paso, Texas
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 07/03/2006 07:05 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Greentree-Financial/St-Paul-Minnesota-55102/Greentree-Financial-Green-Tree-ripoff-credit-charges-that-dont-allow-paying-principle-199346. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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Updates & Rebuttals

#1 Consumer Comment

hidden costs and late postings

AUTHOR: Linda - (U.S.A.)

You are charged late fees every month because they wait up to 10 to 14 days to post any payments which probably will make your payment late. all our payments go to a drop box.

If you are late even one month you may find that they want extra money over and above the payment amount. I would carefully look over your contract and if need be bring it to an attorney to look over and also bring it to and accountant as well. the accountant will need the contract in front of him to figure out if your payments etc are figured right with the interest and meet the contract specs. you need to check to see what type of loan you really have. If it is a arms loan you will need to have and accountant to figure it outthere are two different Libor rate charts if you have a arms loan.

I will wish you luck
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#2 Consumer Suggestion

It is in there.

AUTHOR: Mike - (U.S.A.)

It is simple daily interest. Basically, you are charged 1/365 of the APR times the balance every day whether you've made a payment or not. This causes the balance to increase every day except on days when payments are received. The unpaid interest usually becomes part of the principal every day; it compounds. Thus you are also being charged interest on top of interest every day.

When a payment is received, the balance decreases. Although if the payment is not enough to pay the interest that accumulated since the last payment, the balance overall keeps going up. Late fees are really bad for this situation because they get subtracted from the payment before any of it can go to interest or principal.

On a 30 year loan, the standard payment is barely enough to pay 30 day's interest on the original balance. If anything goes wrong, such as late or missed payments, the balance gets higher than it should, and then every month's interest is also higher than it should be. This causes the principal to be paid off slowly, or not at all.

The numbers on the truth in lending statement are assuming all payments are made on time. Otherwise they will not be correct. You would have to recompute the payments (higher) to keep pay off on schedule after a late payment. The bank won't tell you that because they don't have to. It's more money for them.

Of course there's also the chance that the bank is crooked, but if they have a high APR on a 30 year loan with someone who often pays late, they really don't need to be.
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#3 Consumer Suggestion

It is in there.

AUTHOR: Mike - (U.S.A.)

It is simple daily interest. Basically, you are charged 1/365 of the APR times the balance every day whether you've made a payment or not. This causes the balance to increase every day except on days when payments are received. The unpaid interest usually becomes part of the principal every day; it compounds. Thus you are also being charged interest on top of interest every day.

When a payment is received, the balance decreases. Although if the payment is not enough to pay the interest that accumulated since the last payment, the balance overall keeps going up. Late fees are really bad for this situation because they get subtracted from the payment before any of it can go to interest or principal.

On a 30 year loan, the standard payment is barely enough to pay 30 day's interest on the original balance. If anything goes wrong, such as late or missed payments, the balance gets higher than it should, and then every month's interest is also higher than it should be. This causes the principal to be paid off slowly, or not at all.

The numbers on the truth in lending statement are assuming all payments are made on time. Otherwise they will not be correct. You would have to recompute the payments (higher) to keep pay off on schedule after a late payment. The bank won't tell you that because they don't have to. It's more money for them.

Of course there's also the chance that the bank is crooked, but if they have a high APR on a 30 year loan with someone who often pays late, they really don't need to be.
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#4 Consumer Suggestion

It is in there.

AUTHOR: Mike - (U.S.A.)

It is simple daily interest. Basically, you are charged 1/365 of the APR times the balance every day whether you've made a payment or not. This causes the balance to increase every day except on days when payments are received. The unpaid interest usually becomes part of the principal every day; it compounds. Thus you are also being charged interest on top of interest every day.

When a payment is received, the balance decreases. Although if the payment is not enough to pay the interest that accumulated since the last payment, the balance overall keeps going up. Late fees are really bad for this situation because they get subtracted from the payment before any of it can go to interest or principal.

On a 30 year loan, the standard payment is barely enough to pay 30 day's interest on the original balance. If anything goes wrong, such as late or missed payments, the balance gets higher than it should, and then every month's interest is also higher than it should be. This causes the principal to be paid off slowly, or not at all.

The numbers on the truth in lending statement are assuming all payments are made on time. Otherwise they will not be correct. You would have to recompute the payments (higher) to keep pay off on schedule after a late payment. The bank won't tell you that because they don't have to. It's more money for them.

Of course there's also the chance that the bank is crooked, but if they have a high APR on a 30 year loan with someone who often pays late, they really don't need to be.
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#5 Consumer Suggestion

It is in there.

AUTHOR: Mike - (U.S.A.)

It is simple daily interest. Basically, you are charged 1/365 of the APR times the balance every day whether you've made a payment or not. This causes the balance to increase every day except on days when payments are received. The unpaid interest usually becomes part of the principal every day; it compounds. Thus you are also being charged interest on top of interest every day.

When a payment is received, the balance decreases. Although if the payment is not enough to pay the interest that accumulated since the last payment, the balance overall keeps going up. Late fees are really bad for this situation because they get subtracted from the payment before any of it can go to interest or principal.

On a 30 year loan, the standard payment is barely enough to pay 30 day's interest on the original balance. If anything goes wrong, such as late or missed payments, the balance gets higher than it should, and then every month's interest is also higher than it should be. This causes the principal to be paid off slowly, or not at all.

The numbers on the truth in lending statement are assuming all payments are made on time. Otherwise they will not be correct. You would have to recompute the payments (higher) to keep pay off on schedule after a late payment. The bank won't tell you that because they don't have to. It's more money for them.

Of course there's also the chance that the bank is crooked, but if they have a high APR on a 30 year loan with someone who often pays late, they really don't need to be.
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#6 Consumer Comment

to the employee

AUTHOR: Johnnie - (U.S.A.)

To the employee I have read and re read my documents. There is something I see. The truth in lending paper does not mention anything about extra interest if the payment is late. The purpose of a truth in lending paper is to show EXACTY how much interest is going to be paid on this loan when it is completed.

It does say Green tree has the right to foreclose if the payment is late and it says there is a late fee if the payments are more than 10 days late. The truth is your company is ripping off many people. That is a FACT!

I have asked many lenders and many people with loans no one has ever heard of this extra interest. You guys seem to imply this is the norm when that is FAR from the truth!

This is something you need to check on with your company, do an online search for Green tree and look at all the complaints from every aspect of the country it is negative on every front.

You have us in a trap because reputable lenders will not finance a used mobile home.

My question to you is if by chance you are correct and the interest builds every day a payment is late then on the other hand if I made my payments a few days early wouldn't it stand to reason that interest would not accrue as fast and extra principal will be added?

I am actively searching for help in my case and I pray I soon find some help. I am not trying to get out of paying for my home as you think but I do expect when I make a payment I am making a slight contribution to the ownership of this trailer

For example in the last 6 years of this ridicules loan and making payments in excess of $5200 a year there were no payments that have ever went over 30 days late in the past and never over 15 days late in the last 4 years and not over 10 days late in over a year I still have made a whopping contribution of $25 toward the principal since September of '03 a grand total of .06 cents has gone towards me getting this thing paid off. Now you tell me this is the norm in the mortgage world. Sounds like a rip off to me.
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#7 UPDATE Employee

Employee Response

AUTHOR: Cheryl - (U.S.A.)

I am an employee of Greentree Servicing, LLC and while I can sympathize with all of these problems on your site, the fact remains clear that these "problems" arise when customers have defaulted on their loan by making late payments. As with any financial institution (i.e. banks, mortgage companies, credit card companies, etc.) there are fees associated with late payments. NO ONE IS EXEMPT from paying these fees, not even employees.

What no one realizes with Greentree loans, once your account has defaulted over a certain period of time, until your payments are brought to current again, most of your payment is being applied to interest and not principle. This is part of any standard mortgage loan agreement.

Some of the representatives do not explain this to customers thusly, customers get into a "habit" of paying late each month, sometimes running a full 30days behind and never getting caught up. Then they are upset when they realize what this has done to the "paydown" of their principle.

Although it is not our duty to explain each and every part of YOUR contract, I do this because I've seen it over and over that it is not explained and just getting a payment in seems to be the priority. There is a cutoff period also for your loan not to be in complete default. The threats that are made are not threats, they are factual.

We do send field representatives out when we cannot contact customers via phone to resolve their delinquencies. Again, if the loan was not past due Greentree would NOT just randomly call someone on a current loan. If you are getting calls 3-5 days after your due date, it is highly likely that you've been past due on a payment for a long time and have never brought the loan current.

Example, if you have a due date of the 10th of the month and a representative contacted you and told you that you could push your payment off until the 29th and took a post dated check for that date, and you assume you can do this each and every month just because you are making a payment every month, this is how all this gets started. You are continuously paying 19 days after your due date and thusly, being charged late fees and payments are being applied to interest only.

For those of you who are confused, dig out your contracts a RE-READ them. If you don't know what your getting into or how the mortgage industry works or any financial institution works with late payments...ask someone who is knowledgeable. DONT just get on a website and have other illiterate whiney people make you feel like you havent contributed to the problems you are facing.

You have not made an attempt yourself to get educated and ask how to get help. The company itself is the only person who can help you. You are bound by a contract and avoiding the contractual terms by "caller id" or "not answering the phone" is in no way helping your financial situation or your position with the company. Any attorney will tell you this.

Take a course in mortgage contracts, you'll be surprised that this is standard within the industry. Those of you on this site, if given the chance to refinance with another company, would undoubtedly have issues with another company because they don't spoon feed you on your way to current. It is YOUR responsibility and yours alone.
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#8 Consumer Suggestion

Bankruptcy again?

AUTHOR: Mike - (U.S.A.)

You can bankrupt again if it has been sufficient time since the first one. Language in contracts trying to prohibit you from including them in bankruptcy is illegal and meaningless. You can discharge in bankruptcy any debt allowed by law as long as the court agrees that you don't have money to pay it.

You got bad advice in the first bankruptcy. Don't reaffirm mortgages unless there is large positive equity. There's almost never positive equity in a mobile home. Almost certainly if you hadn't reaffirmed, you would've had the option to make voluntary payments and continue living there. When the better job came, you could've simply quit paying and moved out with no further consequences.
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#9 Consumer Suggestion

Bankruptcy again?

AUTHOR: Mike - (U.S.A.)

You can bankrupt again if it has been sufficient time since the first one. Language in contracts trying to prohibit you from including them in bankruptcy is illegal and meaningless. You can discharge in bankruptcy any debt allowed by law as long as the court agrees that you don't have money to pay it.

You got bad advice in the first bankruptcy. Don't reaffirm mortgages unless there is large positive equity. There's almost never positive equity in a mobile home. Almost certainly if you hadn't reaffirmed, you would've had the option to make voluntary payments and continue living there. When the better job came, you could've simply quit paying and moved out with no further consequences.
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#10 Consumer Suggestion

Bankruptcy again?

AUTHOR: Mike - (U.S.A.)

You can bankrupt again if it has been sufficient time since the first one. Language in contracts trying to prohibit you from including them in bankruptcy is illegal and meaningless. You can discharge in bankruptcy any debt allowed by law as long as the court agrees that you don't have money to pay it.

You got bad advice in the first bankruptcy. Don't reaffirm mortgages unless there is large positive equity. There's almost never positive equity in a mobile home. Almost certainly if you hadn't reaffirmed, you would've had the option to make voluntary payments and continue living there. When the better job came, you could've simply quit paying and moved out with no further consequences.
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#11 Consumer Suggestion

Bankruptcy again?

AUTHOR: Mike - (U.S.A.)

You can bankrupt again if it has been sufficient time since the first one. Language in contracts trying to prohibit you from including them in bankruptcy is illegal and meaningless. You can discharge in bankruptcy any debt allowed by law as long as the court agrees that you don't have money to pay it.

You got bad advice in the first bankruptcy. Don't reaffirm mortgages unless there is large positive equity. There's almost never positive equity in a mobile home. Almost certainly if you hadn't reaffirmed, you would've had the option to make voluntary payments and continue living there. When the better job came, you could've simply quit paying and moved out with no further consequences.
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#12 Consumer Comment

For the So Called Green Tree Employee

AUTHOR: Pamela - (U.S.A.)

If you are indeed with greentree your info is wrong!! I have dealt with this company and they are the rudest, meanest company to ever deal with. And every story on this website is true, anyone that is interested in starting the class action against this company let's do it and stop hum hoeing around! They must be stopped, they are ripping people off big time, and the harassment goes way beyond phone calls, they actually will send someone out to your home and tell you if you don't pay up or if you don't give them money right then and there that they will come get your home, bottom line here........ Sounds to me like modern day loan sharks! Let's stop them... PF in Florida
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#13 UPDATE Employee

I am sympathetic to your situation, but...

AUTHOR: Doryen - (U.S.A.)

Why did you sign the contract if the terms were so terrible? Did you know that you had the right to secure your own lender at the time of purchase?

It is not the fault of Green Tree that you wanted to buy a home. But it is their fault, apparently, that they want you to repay it in accordance with the contract that was signed.

Also, you will notice that you either have a 10, or 15 day grace period with regards to your late fees. But as far as being late - as with any bill - you are late if the payment has not arrived by the due-date (i.e. due on the 14th, payment must be in-office by the 13th to be considered on time).

Sounds like you have a simple interest loan - with the size of the loan you have, your per-diem interest must be huge. That is why your principle balance isn't going down. The best thing for you to do in that situation (if paying late can't be avoided) send additional funds every month with your payments ($100, $50, $75... it doesn't matter) and mark them as principle only. Make sure you are very clear in your markings so the payment processing center in Palatine doesn't submit your entire mortgage payment as principle only. If that happens you would have to contact customer service and have them do a payment reallocation for you.

Honestly, I would also recommend that you do not mail the payment if you are past due. A check by phone may cost $9 (we utilize Western Union's SpeedPay service for our check-by-phones - which is a secure third-party system that guarantees that nobody has access to your checking account information aside from the individual you provide it to). A check by phone is also more secure than mailing a check due to the fact that with a check your information (address, name, phone number, routing and account number) are all printed in plain view to anyone who might steal your mail or any number of other dangers that might occur en route.

Did you realize that every day your account is open you are accruing interest (whether you are current or not)? Being past due simply causes any excess interest (interest which would have only been accruing for the second month) to have to be paid with the current payment. If you mail a payment while past due, you are unnecessarily adding extra interest to your loan every day that it takes for the payment to be posted to your account (generally 5-7 business days). Thus a check by phone would be a wiser choice because paying the $9 up front instead of paying the daily interest will allow more of your payment to go towards the principle balance.

My name is Doryen and I while I do not have a direct extension (unfortunate, in my opinion) I consider it my responsibility to inform and educate every customer I come into contact with.

I hope this has helped you in at least a small way.

Any questions should be directed to 1-877-606-7483
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