• Report: #430797

Complaint Review: HealthSource Chiropractic Franchises

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  • Submitted: Wed, March 04, 2009
  • Updated: Wed, April 11, 2012

  • Reported By:Itasca Illinois
HealthSource Chiropractic Franchises
4365 Liberty Avenue, Nationwide United States of America

HealthSource Chiropractic, Inc REVIEW: Customer Satisfaction Commitment: HealthSource Chiropractic implemented strategic systems to ensure franchisees success and fantastic patient outcomes, focusing on the relentless pursuit of exceptional care for the hundreds of thousands of patients its independently owned clinics serve while raising the bar for chiropractic across the globe. Vermillion Ohio
*UPDATE: Recognized by Ripoff Report Corporate Advocacy Program as a safe business service Customers can feel safe, confident & secure when doing business with HealthSource Chiropractic, Inc.

*Consumer Comment: glad it was for you, but do better math

*UPDATE Employee: HealthSource Chiro

*Consumer Comment: really?

*Consumer Comment: Results may vary

*Consumer Comment: Lawyer up

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Lawyer up....

*Consumer Comment: fraud

*Consumer Suggestion: text me your phone number

*Consumer Suggestion: Has any one heard of a Qui Tam Suit

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: IN ALL FAIRNESS

*UPDATE Employee: WOW - and you sound like...

*UPDATE Employee: HealthSource as a business opportunity

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: HS - corporate

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Sorry Seattle

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Practice Declined While Expense Rose Dramatically Since Joining HealthSource.

*UPDATE Employee: stay AWAY

*Author of original report: More on Tomshack CEO of Healthsource

*UPDATE Employee: HealthSource Corporate responds

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: not rebuttal-opinion

*UPDATE Employee: Reasons

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Franchise

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Franchise

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Franchise

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Franchise

*Author of original report: Dr. T

*UPDATE Employee: info query

*Author of original report: true and false their franchisee

*UPDATE Employee: Franchise

*Author of original report: update from other DC's

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Ripoff Report REVIEW:

EDitors UPDATE: Positive rating and recognition has been given to HealthSource Chiropractic for its commitment to excellence in customer service.

Ripoff Reports discussions with HealthSource Chiropractic have uncovered their burning desire for 100% patient satisfaction and the success of its franchise owners. This means that all patients of HealthSource clinics can expect that HealthSource will always find a mutually satisfactory resolution to any complaints or concerns. HealthSource Chiropractic is dedicated to the continued success of its franchise owners as well and seeks to turn any concern or potential complaint into an opportunity to continually evolve its proven systems.

HealthSource Chiropractic's CEO, Dr. Chris Tomshack, has informed us that his personal philosophy is that HealthSource exists to provide exceptional care to the hundreds of thousands of patients its independently owned clinics serve. As a successful businessman, Dr. Tomshack feels it is critical to listen intently to any concerns voiced by patients or franchise owners. By always putting the needs of HealthSource patients and franchise owners first, Dr. Tomshack strives to maintain their number 1 ranking by Entrepreneur Magazine well into the future.

Another top executive of the company told us that Dr. Tomshack's personal business philosophy is based on the premise that "HealthSource is dedicated to constantly evolving patient care for superior results both for its patients and its franchise owners." HealthSource Chiropractic's mission statement says it all: "The relentless pursuit of exceptional care while raising the bar for chiropractic across the globe." Some of the other things Ripoff Report learned in the course of its investigation include: typical franchise owner feedback reveals HealthSource Chiropractic (and Dr. Tomshack) truly communicate how to both deliver outstanding care and business success. They are driven to help us achieve great personal and professional success." Typical patient feedback reveals: "HealthSource delivers incredible care in a wonderful, happy environment. Two thumbs up!"

HealthSource Chiropractic's executive team have expressed that they are certain of the HealthSource commitment. The president of HealthSource stated "I have seen Dr. Tomshack take extreme personal interest in the success of each and every franchise owner. He is driven to constantly evolve all the HealthSource systems to ensure that each office has an incredibly efficient office that is dedicated to providing only the most exceptional care to the patients HealthSource serves. Dr. Tomshack has embedded in the HealthSource culture the premise that it is paramount that we at the corporate office do everything possible to ensure our franchise owners are successful personally and professionally."

HealthSource Chiropractic takes employee satisfaction seriously as well. Employee feedback and surveys reveal common comments such as this: "HealthSource provides an incredible environment for work. It's a family atmosphere that I've never had anywhere else. They truly care about me and my family and our happiness. Opportunities for suggestions and improvements are encouraged and acted upon. Dr. Tomshack actually takes the time to listen and communicate with every team member and every franchisee." Ripoff Report was pleased to learn that HealthSource Chiropractic's past and current approach to business is focused on its pledge to total commitment towards patient, franchise owner and team member satisfaction and happiness.

HealthSource recognizes that complaints posted on Ripoff Report (whether true or not) are issues that need to be addressed, not ignored. If valid and handled correctly, complaints can be valuable learning opportunities. With the feedback generated by Rip-off Reports Investigation, HealthSource Chiropractic has made organizational changes allowing its franchise owners, patients and team members a streamlined approach to problem resolution and a commitment to an incredible experience.

In summary, after our review, which included discussions with Dr. Tomshack, Ripoff Report is convinced that HealthSource Chiropractic and Dr. Tomshack are totally committed to both exceptional care for HealthSource patients as well as the success of HealthSource franchise owners. Anyone that thinks anything different with any member of Ripoff Reports Corporate Advocacy Program needs to contact us at EDitor@ripoffreport.com

Read more about why consumers should feel confident when doing business with a member of Ripoff Report's Corporate Advocacy Business Remediation & Customer Satisfaction Program. Yes,its a long name for a program that does a lot for both consumers and businesses alike.

Read about Ripoff Report Corporate Advocacy Business Remediation & Customer Satisfaction Program,.. A program that benefits the consumer, assures them of complete satisfaction and confidence when doing business with a member business. this program works.

As a matter of policy, when a business becomes a member of the Corporate Advocacy Program they agree to allow Rip-off Report to contact every person who filed a complaint so they can make things right with them.

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NOW TO THE ORIGINAL REPORT THAT WAS FILED
=====================

HealthSource Chiropractic Franchises A big sales pitch with lots of hidden expenses and unfounded claims Vermillion, OHIO

HealthSource is a chiropractic franchise business opportunity created by Dr. Chris Tomshack. He is an aggressive marketer and quite the salesman. He states that he has developed "systems" that teach chiropractors to have more success. I think he is the one making tons of $$ off of chiropractors.

First if you buy into his business. What you are doing is taking your current chiropractic office and changing it to "his' vision of patient care. You must pay around 25-30,000 for the franchise fee. Then he takes 7-7.5% of your monthly collections as a royalty fee. So what do you get for 25-30K, well you get his training..His training is nothing more that re-hashed scrips and forms that any chiropractor that has been to a few seminars has or been exposed to. But you do get a lot of vendors pushing their vitamins and their equipment.

Now of course if you are from out of town, you pay this guy 25-30K ( and you can finance it with his buddy bankers ) then you automatically give him 7-7.5% of what you WERE ALREADY MAKING. But dont expect a free lunch, you have to buy that. Then you are required to use HIS SOFTWARE - Phunkey. He has an apparent stake with this company. The cost for using HIS software, about another 500-600 per month.

Now you must run his "ads" which are nothing more than glossy killer ads with giveaways...things like free leather tote bag, gas cards, gift cards and steak knives. Of course these ads are needed to run weekly at a monthly cost of 4-5K each month..There are no systems, but lots of gray area with billings and somewhat very sketchy billing advice. Now when you add the franchise fees, required ads, Phunkey software, and royalty, you are looking at quite an expensive increase in overhead. They claim to be compliant with an up to date with insurances. If you question "their" orders on how to bill, you could be dropped from the program with penalty fees with no refunds. Many doctors have dropped out from the lack of any true systems.

Dr. Tomshack claims he has or had 4 successful clinics. Not true he had 2 barely profitable with his personal and systems in place. He is a great salesman, which what would you do, sell patients on care plans or sell chiropractors on a bright future. The ladder is worth a lot more money. Many of the current ads in the journal have testimonials from ordinary chiropractors..Yea. Dr. Frank's story...go their website, he is in the corporate team. He gets paid by the company. Not really objective.

Avoid this company like the plaque. I would guess a class action case from all his members would help save the cheapening of chiropractic by this company.

Jon
Itasca, Illinois
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 03/04/2009 03:22 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/HealthSource-Chiropractic-Franchises/nationwide/HealthSource-Chiropractic-Inc-REVIEW-Customer-Satisfaction-Commitment-HealthSource-Chir-430797. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

Ripoff Report has an exclusive license to this report. It may not be copied without the written permission of Ripoff Report.

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REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
1Author 21Consumer 7Employee/Owner
Updates & Rebuttals

#1 Consumer Comment

glad it was for you, but do better math

AUTHOR: Old Chiro - (United States of America)

Look, no one wants bad things talked about their company or products. I am sure that the drug companies that make a lot of drugs that are more harmful then helpful don't want that information out of the bag. I mean not like it matters too much, otherwise no one would buy and smoke cigarettes.

But anyhow. Let's talk about HealthSource the # 1 chiropractic franchise. If we were talking about hamburger joints ( and not spinal joints ) I would be impressed. Please name me another chiropractic franchise group? You can't as they dont exist.

They boast on 300 chiropractic offices and growing? Really, maybe that is true, but how many did they have year 1, year 2 and year 3 and so forth. I am sure out the gate they did real well and gained some momentum, but I bet those new docs joined are much less than before. Sure you can talk about 300 members with 60,000 chiros in the US that is
a small percentage who joined. But when you sign a 7-10 year contract. You are stuck. Imagine if a chiropractic patient had to stay in your office for 7-10 years and see how your practice grows.

See if you want to drop 25-35K for a franchise fee, then give 7% of gross collections of what you were ALREADY making, then that is your choice. But look at some numbers. If the average D.C. can collect 25K per month / 300K per year. You are giving Tomshack and co. 21,000 per year. Plus the initial franchise fee. Instead of giving him 25-30K for the fee, you could hire a marketing director to set up talks, screenings and network with attorneys and medical doctors for one entire year. Plus you could spend your 7% on commercials. I just ran over 300 30 second commercials for 1200.00.

And now my office is booming with new patients. Why give it to Healthsource. Do you think their marketing is so great? Go buy Killer Ad's or Dr. Eric Breitenmoiser's program or Chiropractic Elite Organization ( now Wellness One - and Dr. Tomshack is a graduate of CEO ). Heck if you need to go to seminars and be around a bunch of chiros, try Integrity Management, they will save you a ton of money and have much more experience.

And look Tomshack is a business man, period. His multiple clinics were not producing enough income. So he added PT and REHAB and other systems.Now take an organization in Illinois called ChiroOne. They have a tremendous number of offices. This is owned by one person. Tomshack is selling his model and frankly a dream. If HealthSource was so great with their systems, he should have 300 clinics himself. But he knows as I do, selling chiropracTIC to chiropracTORS is easier then selling health to the public.

He also has been mentioned as an owner of his software Phunkey. So instead of Medisoft or EZ Biz or Chiro 8000, he again makes $ ( possibly)  off the software you MUST use. This is not a dumb individual. Then attend a seminar, and you will get more PRODUCTS to sell at your office that I am sure he gets a cut of.

I mean this man is better suited to start a MLM company like Amway, he makes $ hand over fist. And guess what there is nothing wrong with that. Just ONCE YOU SIGN, you cannot undo it. Some have tried. And please dont join because all the franchises are going to be worth so much more if the company goes public. He is too small for that to happen.

I'll tell you what call me when he reaches 500 franchises. It will NOT happen. To say that Tomshack is compliant or interested in resolving issues, that is not true. He is interested in silencing people like me. Sure take a kid out of school or someone struggling and improve their business, great! That is supposed to happen. There are just better and
more affordable ways to do it.

To say that DC's are not prepared to run a business, well either are MD's or DDS's. What makes chiropractic different is the public perception of what we do or can do. We are fighting with people's value's on health. Not a marketing problem.

I get 30 NP's each month without advertising. That is from a solid reputation as a good / caring doctor and relationships with other professionals. I cut off all external marketing other than commercials that we just started. It is still cheaper than HealthSource.

I would rather buy a system like Dr. Eric's for 4000 bucks or Integrity first. If a franchise is getting 7%, they want you to collect MORE. How do you collect more, well you may to more PT or sell back braces. Chiropractic is better than a back brace or a TENS unit. In all my years of practice I never had a patient that needed a back brace. Rehab, I am
a DC not a PT...but hey if it helps you, then who cares.

I will say that I believe deep down and have reason to say that, Dr. Tomshack is an unethical person. He is not a man of his word and he fabricates data to benefit himself, nothing more. Statistics never lie, but chiropractors do.

See right thru this man and his company, despite any desperate pleas to get HealthSource info off the internet. I will say that I am planning on scanning and producing all of HealthSource information that I can find and make it available on the internet. This would include advertising, contracts, manuals, etc.

That way people can make a better choice and then decide what is best for them.
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#2 UPDATE Employee

HealthSource Chiro

AUTHOR: PShapiro - (United States of America)

HealthSource Corporate has NEVER told us to waive deductibles or co-pays, actually they have told us it's illegal to do that. They do not dictate what marketing you MUST do, they provide you with the marketing material and you decide what to use and not use. They do not suggest you waive co-pays either, just the opposite, they say you must collect co-pays and deductibles and co-insurance. They want you to make money, not give it all away. You can program your own office around the materials they provide for marketing, but you are your own boss, you decide what to use and what not to use. You decide when to place an ad or put something in the papers. They actually advise you not to do that until your office is at a certain income level. They have vendors you can use, but you can use whom ever you want, use the ones you have always used if you want. If you find something at a better price, they are open to suggestions that you could save money using that vendor and not theirs. Yes, you pay a franchise fee and yes, Phunkey does cost, but I have not seen any franchise that is cheap or free. Yes, Tomshack probably is pretty rich by now, but what's the problem? Sounds like you may be jealous that you didn't come up with the concept. There are actually about 300 HealthSource clinics right now, and growing. Some people are not cut out for franchising. Yes, you are taking your current office and using his techniques, but sometimes it's hard to be a one man show, wearing all the hats. Chiropractors are not taught to be business men, they are taught to be doctor's, they are not taught to be marketers, they are taught to be doctor's, so HealthSource has lots of marketing ideas you can implement and I don't know if they come from "killer ads" but it's hard to come up with constant marketing ideas, you need all the help you can get. Our office has grown since getting into HealthSource and every time we call them or email them they get right back to us. They answer my questions and give me feedback and advice. I have not seen them do anything illegal, or unethical. Just the opposite, they really speak ethics and legal. We don't spend more money than we have to do marketing and advertising, they don't preach to do it either. We have done very well since getting into HealthSource, our friend who told us about HealthSource is doing very well, too.
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#3 Consumer Comment

really?

AUTHOR: NO WAY MAN - (USA)

Really it worked for you? Oh you're the one. Great..and I guess with all your success of making no money to now having an associate and going to just "manage" your business, I guess you were just trolling the internet, and said, I think I will add my two cents in.

First, I bet you were told to make this rebuttal. If you went to school to be a manager of your office, great. That is your choice. If you want to give away 7% of your income, that is your choice. There are NO systems. Glossy ads and all the info you could have got from CEO.

And if marketing means ADs and ADs, that is your choice. Maybe you never heard of the KILLER ADS program that you could have bought for gas $ driving from PA to Vermillion.

Healthsource is the 8-track player of consulting practices, but costs like an Apple product.

P.S. Brian...try using some of your nutrition knowledge on yourself. You don't look to be healthy or in good shape.

Enjoy being a marketing chiro. vs. building a reputation as a good doctor. The insurance in PA is great, so I am sure you are milking BCBS for all you can...

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#4 Consumer Comment

Results may vary

AUTHOR: Brian- Pennsylvania - (United States of America)

I have been part of the HS system since 2008. I had bought an existing practice that was 75% maintenance and very personality dependant on the retired Doc. After he left my numbers started to dwindle, what I kept hearing was "You're a nice guy and good at adjusting but the reason I've kept coming is that when I was hurt the other guy got me better. When I'm hurt again I'll be back."
I was financially going down the tubes FAST! My marketing education from chiro college consisted of "give out of your abundance and they will come." Well, that wasn't working. I looked into different management companies and for a short time was with another "guru" when I stumbled across HealthSource.
I admit, I was uneasy about the franchise fee and monthly royalty but the management companies wanted monthly payments as well. The way I looked at it was this, by paying a percentage HS has a vested interest in me doing well. What does the management company really care once they have my monthly payment? I was going broke anyway, HealthSource looked like my best option and I figured if I'm going bankrupt might as well go out in a blaze of glory!
Fast forward to 2012. My practice has grown by leaps and bounds, later today I'm interviewing an associate, in 2008 my receptionist made more money than I did! My father asked me if I would renew with them when my franchise expires. My answer, ABSOLUTELY! Maybe I could do it now without them but they taught me how to market myself and be successful I can't begrudge them their due. HS probably isn't for everyone but I wouldn't take someone's word from a message board and make that my deciding factor. If you're interested go to the discovery day, meet them, hear what they have to say and make your own informed decision.

Now for my responses to some of the accusations in other posts.


  • They have never suggested to me that I cut my fees or accept half copays. In fact they preach the exact opposite. They have never suggested that I do anything gray let alone illegal.


  • They do not require you to run print ads, in fact they tell us not to rely on print ads. They do supply ads every month, normally 4-5 in various sizes.


  • You are not required to participate with any "giveaway" promotion. Sometimes I do them, sometimes I don't. This is something that both of the other "guru's" I've been involved with also preach as a way of "giving back."


  • The software is fantastic, fast support and easy to use. Is it overpriced? I'm not sure but I love it and the support is spot on. They have never told me to bill a certain way.


  • So far as franchisee's "dropping like flies." There are more now then when I joined.

I'm sure HS isn't for everyone but it worked for me and if you are like me meaning you're struggling and don't know where to turn, it's worth a look.

PS- I am not part of the corporate team, they did not pay me for this testimonial.

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#5 Consumer Comment

Lawyer up

AUTHOR: NO WAY MAN - (USA)

it is the fact that this guy lies for his financial gain...sure bk protection is there..but we gets to keep the money...he is such a liar..even his attorney is bull s**t...I mean..why someone can screw someone for their financial gain is beyond me...P&L's that are marked PROOF then changed at the end is fraud. He manipulates numbers and collections and combines his businesses to look profitable..and you get a loan in good faith and find out you bought crap..and then cant sustain a false business...It is really sad...but hey...that's life..
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#6 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Lawyer up....

AUTHOR: Gary Cohen - (United States of America)

Lawyer up........if all else fails whoever signed the agreement, claim Chapter 11. This is a drag to do, but only as a last resort. Consult an attorney who really specializes in franchises though as even lawyers expertise is sometimes exaggerated. Get references.
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#7 Consumer Comment

fraud

AUTHOR: NO WAY MAN - (USA)

this "doctor" de-frauded me...Tomshack lied and made false claims. I did NOT buy his franchise..he is a liar and a crook...

F YOU Tomshack and your bull****.
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#8 Consumer Suggestion

text me your phone number

AUTHOR: Bryant - (U.S.A.)

Text me your phone number and I will find you assiatance in this situation.  This is a text only number (((ROR redacted))) identify yourself and I will be in touch.

CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.
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#9 Consumer Suggestion

Has any one heard of a Qui Tam Suit

AUTHOR: Bryant - (U.S.A.)

It appears teaching medical providers how to NOT COLLECT co-pays and deductibles is not only illegal for federal entitlement programs such as Medicare & Medicaid, but also violates the contracts of many commercial insurance carriers.  It does not matter if Dr. Tomshack has a license or not, his teaching or coaching is enough to potentially get him prosecuted just like a couple of other chiropractic consultants such as Ron Halstead, currently doing 20 years in the federal prison and paying a substantial fine.  I cannot assure this is illegal because I do not have enough information, but I certainly have the contacts to get this reviewed by counsel.  If you are intersted in learning more about how to proceed with this action, please text me your phone number at (((ROR redacted)). This is a text only number as the phone call will not go through.  I will take this directly to a law office that will help you file the law suit as a contingency case as I have contact with a number of health care attorneys.  If you have the proof, I have the attorneys to take your case.  It certainly appears to be questionable on first blush.

Text your phone number (((ROR redacted)))

CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.
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#10 UPDATE EX-employee responds

IN ALL FAIRNESS

AUTHOR: HS-IT - (USA)

AFTER YEARS OF GOING AROUND AND AROUND WITH DR. TOMSHACK AND ARGUING AND DEBATING REBUTALS ON THIS SITE, LET'S STICK TO THE FACTS...


1. DR. TOMSHACK IS ULTRA-SUCCESSFUL...IF WE TOOK ALL HIS MONIES AWAY TODAY..IN A SHORT TIME, HE WOULD BE SUCCESSFUL IN ANOTHER AREA OF BUSINESS. THAT IS HOW HE HAS BEEN HIS ENTIRE LIFE.

2. CHIROPRACTIC IS A DIFFICULT PROFESSION, BUT IT MAY BE WORTH IT TO THE INDIVIDUAL TO DECIDE IF WHAT HE AND HEALTHSOURCE OFFER IS RIGHT FOR YOU.

3. HE IS ONE OF THE LARGEST MENTORS AND LEADERS IN THE CHIROPRACTIC PROFESSION.

4. HIS FRANCHISEES AND OFFICES HAVE ALL PERFORMED WELL.

ANY OPINIONS I HAVE OF THIS PERSON, ARE STRICTLY PERSONAL AND NOT PROFESSIONAL. I AM SURE THAT ANYONE THAT FINDS THESE POSTS OR THIS WEBSITE CAN DETERMINE THAT FOR THEMSELVES.

IF YOU HAVE A CHIROPRACTIC OFFICE AND ARE NOT HAPPY, THEN I SAY GET THE FREE INFORMATION AND GO TO A FREE SEMINAR AND SEE IF HEALTHSOURCE IS RIGHT WITH YOU..

ANY DEROGATORY STATEMENTS THAT I MADE WAS DONE IN ANGER AND SIMPLY A LONG STANDING DISAGREEMENT THAT HAS LASTED TOO LONG. I AM IN NO WAY RECONCILING MY PERSONAL FEELINGS, BUT IN ALL FAIRNESS, THE HEALTHSOURCE TEAM IS COMPRISED OF MANY LEADERS WITHIN THE CHIROPRACTIC PROFESSION AND DO OFFER GUIDANCE AND EXPERIENCE WITH BUILDING A CHIROPRACTIC OFFICE.

I RETRACT ANY NEGATIVE STATEMENTS AND ANYTHING PREVIOUSLY POSTED AS A SIGN OF SIMPLY BEING COMPLETELY UPSET AGAINST DR. TOMSHACK PERSONALLY AND NOT PROFESSIONALLY.

YOU CAN DETERMINE FOR YOURSELF IF THEIR BUSINESS MODEL IS ALIGNED WITH YOUR BUSINESS GOALS.

TAKE THE ADVICE FROM A SUCCESSFUL PERSON FIRST AND THEN DECIDE ON YOUR OWN.



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#11 UPDATE Employee

WOW - and you sound like...

AUTHOR: HS-IT - (USA)

So you start off and call me a jerk..Of course..tell me three things that would classify as a "system"...

Funny how other posters on this board agree with me..and others see what Healthsource is...Now a franchise like McDonalds or Subway is recognized...So many people are looking for a HealthSource...Food chains are reproducible, chiropractic is not.

As far as my clinical skills or chiropractic skills. I treat people based on their specific cases..You sound like a chiropractor that could not figure anything out on his own and had to pay 30,000...PLUS 7% of the money already making and then add all the HS costs...Good move...!!

And guess what I actually dont need new patients as I have built such a wellness base..I can rely on keeping people well....

I am smart enough to keep my overhead so low that at the end of the day, it is not how many you see, or bill out or even collect...the bottom line is what do you take home..

Kicked out? nobody kicked me out....as the other posters from Seattle or Ohio how they feel and want out of his "SYSTEM"...

the system, what was it again? Oh...wait tap on the view box during the report to make it more effective? Or have staff do the consultation? or MAX bill the insurance companies and take what you can....get that back brace and fitting fee too...


The problem with you, is you overspent for nothing...and are stuck for what 7-10 years....well at least you have Phunkey!


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#12 UPDATE Employee

HealthSource as a business opportunity

AUTHOR: PShapiro - (United States of America)

What did you expect? To buy a franchise and not pay royalties? Be realistic, check out other franchises, they all charge something they all have systems. You expect to buy into a franchise and not use their systems? They all have systems jerk, McDonald's, Subway, and all the others, that what a franchise is. They don't give leather bags away or steak knives, stupid. Every time I have ever e-mailed someone about a billing questions they get back to me right away and help me with the questions. What happened you buy a franchise then not follow the rules and get kicked out? Sounds like that to me. You are probably one of those chiropractors that insist patients come in for 36 visits or 45 visits, and have "the works" or they won't get better. You probably promise them everything and deliver nothing. You don't have to do ads you don't want to run, or EZ promos you don't want to do or can't afford, they just give you the marketing materials and you pick what you want to do or can afford. They don't dictate what you HAVE to do, they have the information there for you and you can choose what to use and not use. They suggest stuff to you and it's your choice to do and use it. They have good systems and you get the clinic set up to run efficiently with their systems. They help you any time you call them or e-mail them. They get right back to you and answer your questions. If it's a billing question they tell you what you should be doing and what you should not be doing. Guys who get into the program and don't do well need someone to blame so they blame HealthSource and Tomshack, cause they don't want to admit they couldn't cut it. You sound like one of those guys.
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#13 UPDATE EX-employee responds

HS - corporate

AUTHOR: HS-IT - (USA)

You need to go to the HealthSource main website and look at the corporate officers.

Don Besisi, failed in practice
Frank Dachtler uses tele-marketing and police reports ( and he is the marketing guy )

then you have a guy who is the copyrighter..Steve Szucs (SUX)..., this guy rights glossy ads..( that is the "system" )

just buy some killer ads or other chiro ads that have people are selling for a few hundred bucks and run A LOT of them....do a few dinner talks and screenings and you will be better off.....


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#14 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Sorry Seattle

AUTHOR: HS-IT - (USA)



I would love to know your problems and the biggest mistake...
As far as getting out of the contract,

Tomshack, is very smart and SLIMEY...he will not let you out and you will have to get a great attorney...

Also..I know for a fact...that he will lie and his attorney will lie to protect his $$$..

(TRUST ME) I know first hand..
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#15 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Practice Declined While Expense Rose Dramatically Since Joining HealthSource.

AUTHOR: Lily - (United States of America)

Joining Healthsource two years ago was the biggest business mistake my husband ever made!!!

If anyone can give us advice on the best way to get out of it, pleeeeeease let us know!!!!!! Our rep told us wed have to pay half the franchise fee to get out early but we cant see it anywhere in the contract. Anyone know anything about that?

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#16 UPDATE Employee

stay AWAY

AUTHOR: HS-IT - (United States of America)

THIS IS A QUOTE FROM A FORMER EMPLOYEE THAT WAS IN THE MAIN OFFICE IN VERMILLION AND TRAINED MULTIPLE OFFICES AND STAFF:

"Healthsource has policies in place that reduce fees to almost all patients.  these policies include only charge half the deductible, half the copay, or accept the insurance payments only.  Healthsource never collects the out of pocket.  Once a patient has met the deductible they usually only collect copays.  They have fomulas and charts for reducing fees-I don't know them or have access to them. 


 


I can tell you that the philosophy is that if care is affordable for patients, they will keep coming and refer other people."

TO SAY THAT HEALTHSOURCE IS THE LARGEST CHIROPRACTIC FRANCHISE..SOUNDS SO IMPRESSIVE - EXCEPT THAT HOW MANY ARE THERE...???

TELL ME THAT YOU ARE THE LARGEST PIZZA CHAIN OR FAST FOOD CHAIN,, THEN I WOULD BE IMPRESSED...

SECOND...IT IS ILLEGAL TO REDUCE CO-PAYS OR WAIVE THEM....THIS IS WHAT THIS FRANCHISE IS BUILT ON....HOW MANY OF YOU WOULD LIKE A CHIROPRACTIC ADJUSTMENT WITH SOME MUSCLE STIM AND A MASSAGE FOR 5 BUCKS....SURE SIGN ME UP....BUT WHEN IT COSTS YOU 50 BUCKS...YOU MAY NOT BUY AS MUCH....

AND BY THE WAY...ALL THESES "SYSTEMS" THAT TOMSHACK SAYS HE CREATED WAS TAKEN DIRECTLY FROM ANOTHER GROUP WITH HIS SPIN...

EXCEPT WITHOUT THE ROYALTY FEE.....

STAY AWAY AND GET OUT OF YOUR CONTRACT BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!
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#17 Author of original report

More on Tomshack CEO of Healthsource

AUTHOR: Dr. jt - (U.S.A.)

....but from everything I have heard from many people, just about everyone has
gotten a "bad deal" (lightly put) from Tomshack....
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#18 UPDATE Employee

HealthSource Corporate responds

AUTHOR: Carrie - (USA)


I am a representative from HealthSource Chiropractic corporate. We would like to help resolve any issues you may have with HealthSource while addressing any additional concerns. Our overall mission is to Raise the Bar for Chiropractic, and that ideal has propelled us to the largest chiropractic franchise in the world. Please feel free to contact me personally at:
440-967-5458
cpuhalla@healthsourcechiro.com, or
4365 Liberty Avenue
Vermilion, OH 44089
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#19 REBUTTAL Owner of company

not rebuttal-opinion

AUTHOR: Interested - (U.S.A.)

I have been to their discovery day and the main point i grasped on was their business behind the doctor..as i mentioned (i think) ive franchised before but NOT a medical concept.. and i respect everyone's expierence..but i think the GOAL would be to get multiple clinics going that you own, the same as my other franchise; i would never consider a healthsource franchise for just 1 office or to convert an already existing office; but i do thank you for your info- like i said i respect everyone's expierence and it definately helps show me the "potholes" i may be coming across in my near future!!
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#20 UPDATE Employee

Reasons

AUTHOR: Dr. Jt - (U.S.A.)

Look, if you want to know more about HealthSource then go to their Discovery Day..
He will talk about how chiros are dying and they are the only solution..

Look, how to franchise something that is so personal like a doctor's relationship and especially true in chiropractic.

Look, do you want to spend 25-30K and then give 7% of your earnings to this clown?
I will give you the actual quote from another franchisee...that is in this group...

Q: Did your business increase with HealthSource?
A: YES

Q: Did your costs and operating expenses increase?
A: YES

Q: Did you make extra money?
A: NO

Q: So the lease for the franchisee fee, the royalty, their software system, their required ads, increased your expenses but not your bottom line, who then profits from the system?
A: Tomshack
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#21 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Franchise

AUTHOR: Interested - (U.S.A.)

I am a startup vs a conversion clinic. Could you explain to me a few questions i always have when I hear of conversions:

1- Why did you buy into Healthsource? Was it in hopes of increasing income?
2- Why did you exit Healthsource?
3- Wjat do you attribute to your exit in Healthsource?
Thank you for your input. I am very interested. Again, I have done previous franchise ideas and I am more interested in the franchise concept vs Tomshack himself.I am also interested in, though, why it may not have worked for others.
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#22 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Franchise

AUTHOR: Interested - (U.S.A.)

I am a startup vs a conversion clinic. Could you explain to me a few questions i always have when I hear of conversions:

1- Why did you buy into Healthsource? Was it in hopes of increasing income?
2- Why did you exit Healthsource?
3- Wjat do you attribute to your exit in Healthsource?
Thank you for your input. I am very interested. Again, I have done previous franchise ideas and I am more interested in the franchise concept vs Tomshack himself.I am also interested in, though, why it may not have worked for others.
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#23 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Franchise

AUTHOR: Interested - (U.S.A.)

I am a startup vs a conversion clinic. Could you explain to me a few questions i always have when I hear of conversions:

1- Why did you buy into Healthsource? Was it in hopes of increasing income?
2- Why did you exit Healthsource?
3- Wjat do you attribute to your exit in Healthsource?
Thank you for your input. I am very interested. Again, I have done previous franchise ideas and I am more interested in the franchise concept vs Tomshack himself.I am also interested in, though, why it may not have worked for others.
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#24 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Franchise

AUTHOR: Interested - (U.S.A.)

I am a startup vs a conversion clinic. Could you explain to me a few questions i always have when I hear of conversions:

1- Why did you buy into Healthsource? Was it in hopes of increasing income?
2- Why did you exit Healthsource?
3- Wjat do you attribute to your exit in Healthsource?
Thank you for your input. I am very interested. Again, I have done previous franchise ideas and I am more interested in the franchise concept vs Tomshack himself.I am also interested in, though, why it may not have worked for others.
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#25 Author of original report

Dr. T

AUTHOR: Dr. Jt - (U.S.A.)

Dr. T.
Has a terrible reputation with chiropractors in Ohio. He sells. He is good at it.
I was involved with his franchise. If it has worked for you, great.
I never saw much more that high salesmenship, with glossy inserts..Plus an overpriced billing system.

7% of fees you were ALREADY making. Again, if it works for you, great. My OPINION is that he gets into too many GRAY areas of billings..
Of course he does not have a license to risk as he does not practice.

I have talked with many past franchisees...seems a lot are dropping out.
I dont believe there will ever be an exit strategy as he mentioned.
A chiropractic office is still a chiropractic office.



Remember it has always been easier to sell chiropractic to chiropractors than the general public.
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#26 UPDATE Employee

info query

AUTHOR: Interested - (U.S.A.)

Dr J,
I am very curious and am genuinely asking- how do you Tomshack? Were you in the franchise?
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#27 Author of original report

true and false their franchisee

AUTHOR: Dr. Jt - (U.S.A.)

Look, Dr. Tomshack is a business man, but also a salesman..IS he trying to make money, YES..Nothing wrong with that. Is he trying to help other chiropractors make money, yes....also ok...

the problem with this group, is that he is not ethical or honest with his dealings..
He preys on yound or under achieving docs and sells them a dream. Also, ok as long as it is LEGAL...

teaching NOOPE...no out of pocket expense is illegal. Bypassing medicare as their primary insurance to get to the secondary can be illegal. And yes, people know the costs before signing...but what happens when is re-hashed "killer ads" dont pull..I guess you offer a guarantee to new patients with a full refund....illegal by the way..or you maximum bill back braces to any insurance carrier that will pay for them.

And if you dare challenge Dr. Tomshack as to his "systems", you may not be part of the franchise system...Great can I get my 25K back...NOPE..

see this guy figured out that it is easier to sell chiropractic to chiropractors then the general public....For you chiros that bought into his program...I feel bad...You could have bought TARA ads...for 200 bucks each month and get 6 to choose from vs. one....

HealthSource also will sell you on an exit strategy that will be value your clinic at 6x the real worth in his mind when he offers a PPO....never will happen..FYI..

this guy has franchisees, past business partners and associates all going after him..

Be wise...spend your 25K on a 1 year full time marketer...offer them a % of what they do for you.....
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#28 UPDATE Employee

Franchise

AUTHOR: Interested - (U.S.A.)

Dr Tomshack has done nothing new- he is franchising a service just as restaurants have done for years. The fees mentioned are very upfront and arent "hidden" as you have implied; obviously so much so that you yourself were aware of them as well. As any business opportunist involved with franchises has expierenced, there are fees associated with the support and brand naming of your franchise. Does it make Dr Tomshack and his team money? ABSOLUTELY! Does it as well make the franchisee money? OF COURSE! It is an option that chiropractors have searched for and missed for years- how to turn their office into a BUSINESS versus a job. To have assistance and guidance in stepping out of my office as the doctor and running multiple clinics in my area is something far beyond what the average consultant has been able to lead. So call it "rehashed scripts" and "sales pitches" all you want- it is nothing new in our commercial economy. Its simply one way of achieveing a goal.
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#29 Author of original report

update from other DC's

AUTHOR: Dr. jt - (U.S.A.)

Comments

2009-01-14 18:12:59
Name: David

Location: New York
Excellent points, $ally, not to mention the illegal contract they presented to me (in New York state), the lies and falsified information about ERISA and cracking the insurance code in NY, and the BS about creating "systems" in your office. For future franchise suckers, I suggest you call the former franchisees in the back of the book they give you when you inquire about the franchise. People backed out for a reason.

2008-10-23 21:03:34
Name: $ally

Location: California
Fir$t, I $uggest you a$k Health$ource about their fee$ (7.5% of collection$ (ALL COLLECTION$)), and the franchi$e fee, and the monthly payment$, and then extra overhead (you'll $ee), and $oftware / $upport fee$(Phunkey...ouch!), and promotion$ (mandatory), and mandatory compliance to the H$ program, and termination of contract fee$... then recon$ider.

"We don't want to change your practice, we only want to help you expand your Chiropractic Office! To help more people.... yada yada yad
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