• Report: #527861

Complaint Review: Hughes Net Systems

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  • Submitted: Mon, November 23, 2009
  • Updated: Sun, December 12, 2010

  • Reported By: Raven S — Sidney Montana United States of America
Hughes Net Systems
11717 Exploration Lane GERMANTOWN,, Maryland United States of America

Hughes Net Systems Hughes Net hacks their customers! GERMANTOWN, Maryland

*Consumer Comment: Not really a rebuttal, but some IT information

*Author of original report: HughesNet have stopped bothering us

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I'm writing this complaint because I believe that something needs to be done about how Hughes Net threats their customers. Actually, I think there needs to be an independant organization to keep an eye on ALL ISPs. They are not the only ISP who treats it's customers badly...but that's another story.


Here's ours:


We signed up with HN in November of 2008. I chose the satellite setup because one option was to run transmissions through a cable to and from the computer and you don't need to risk getting caught on a local wireless network. This is not what we got. We had been hacked on our former connection. We didn't need or want wireless access because we only have one computer and it's a desktop. I told the HN sales person that on the phone when I signed up. I also told the installer very clearly that we did not want wireless access and why. He took 2 days to do the installation. I had taken the appointed day off of work to oversee and make sure he remembered NOT to set it up for wireless access. Well, I wasn't there and he did. It didn't take long to figure it out. The usual number of cars kept pulling up and parking in front of the house with no one getting out to visit anyone, and we were still getting the exact problems we had before. We were sharing a connection device again but the device happened to be - drumroll please...OUR HN9000 MODEM!


I called them and told them I wanted the wireless access turned off immediately. They asked me if I was using a router.


I said, "No"


but that the modem obviously had one built in and we were not the only people using it for access. I told them I wan'ted the wireless turned OFF. I asked them to give us a static IP and configure it so that it would only give access to that IP but they wouldn't do it.


They could have solved the problem right then...


Instead they tried to tell me that the HN9000 doesn't have a router built in and that it is impoossible to hack one. I would have believed them if it were true but...


1st off, You don't get a 192 # unless you are using a router.


2nd, They claim in their own advertisements that the HN9000 CAN act as a local router and you can set up a home or small office network with it. I actually tried reading some of these to them over the phone and they still denied it! Who were they lying to? Me, or the rest of the world?


After asking them to do something about the wireless hacking didn't work, begging them to do something didn't work, and yelling at them to do something didn't work, 8 months had gone by and some very terrible things had happened because we had been forced to give access of our computer to people who abused us. Among these things was - I was writing a story and it was coming along brilliantly. After every update I put it on disk. Unfortunately one of the things these creeps would do was interfere with us when we transfered things back and forth onto CDs. They stole my story.


I thought, "At least I still have it on disk"


and went to put it back on. All of the folders on the disk were empty! I don't remember what I wrote exactly, and I don't think l'll ever be able to write it as good again. I'm heartbroken. That's just one example. The list is very long.


We told them we would not pay them anymore until they stopped the hacking and started giving us the service we had asked for. Instead of coming through with better service, they cut us off completel. before the service was sparatic - but not the connection. The cars kept coming and we could turn on the the modem and type in ipconfig /displaydns and see what things they had been looking up! Also I could still access the router pages and get ARP readings. You can't get ARP readings unless you are DIRECTLY connected to A nework of some kind. They had already cut off my email service BEFORE we had stopped paying them, without telling me why. It was one of the reasons we rebelled.


More proof that their phone help people were lying to me when they said that no one could access our connection wirelessly is written right on the modem itself. I found it after we cancelled our subscription. Here it is:


"This device complies with part 15 of the FCC Rules. Operation is subject to the following two conditions (1) This device may not cause harmful interference, and (2) This device must accept any interference received including interference that may cause undesireable operation"


In other words, it not only CAN be used as a local router, it MUST be used as a local router, whether the subscriber likes it or not! I believe this is by design - to be able to expand their transmission territory while saving themseves the expence of buying more equipment or paying rent for proper servers. Anyone have a better theory?


One day, when we had been cut off I got bored. With nothing to do, I analysed all I could on the router pages they let you see. Out of curiosity I clicked on the little man on the top of the page and guess what? I got into the pages they DON'T LET you see. Oh, how I wish I would have stumbled onto it sooner! I could have seen what and who they had us connnected to in full glory, but alass...I wrote it down case sensitively but some of the spacing may have gotten lost or added in translation. I haven't got a clue what most of this stuff means, but some of it is obvious. This I have added at the bottom of the post. It clearly states in this information:


That we were in "Server" mode, and who the "Network administrator" was among other things of interest, which they had denied for 10 months. I had told them all of the IPs and corispondining MACs that were directly connected to our connection and they did nothing about it. I found out why when I stumbled onto the following info. It happens that they had appointed the Network admin and some of the other sharers themselves, without our knowledge or consent! They had been telling me the whole time that we we not sharing a connection with anyone and yet they knew all along that we were because they had arranged some of them themselves. All of the IPs and MACs that I had given them were there. Also they left a way for anyone else who wanted to join the party to do so wirelessly by giving us a modem that was made for the soul purpose of giving access to everyone within its radious. To make it worse, they blocked ALL emails and letters that I wrote to forums and websites asking for help with the hacking. They ALL came back via Mailer Demon (I spelled it that way intentionally) having all orts of jibberish on them and certain words were marked certain ways every time. I think they were being filtered.


What is the very most aggravating about it is that after all of the times I had asked, begged, and then demanded that they cut off other peoples' access from our computer and had listened to them tell me over and over and over that the modem didn't have a router, that I was not getting hacked, and that I was not sharing my access, I had my mother, who is more eloquent than I am speak to them while I listened. My mother asked the person on the phone (who called himself Jimmy and would not disclose his last name) why they kept telling me that I was not being hacked when it was very clear that I was. He said because I wasn't being hacked and that I wasn't sharing my access.


She said, "She IS being hacked!" and she went down the list of what was happening and when she got to "...someone is even turning off and reconfigureing her firewalls!"


If I hadn't been there I wouldn't have believed it - He told her that it was HUGHES NET that were turning them off. I had tried absolutely all of the best softwares and had no success in the search for a firewall that "the hackers' couldn't turn off in an effort to protect my computer, only to find out that it wasn't "hackers" who were turning them off, it was my own ISP! Aparently theirs would alwasys override mine...


She clarified, "It was Hughes Net turning them off?"


"Yes"


"No wonder she's getting hacked if you've been turning off her firewalls! Why did you do that?"


"Because ours is sufficient"


"Well, its not sufficient if she's getting hacked"


"She's not getting hacked because no one can get through our firewall and no one can hack the modem"


(Maybe it was suficient on their side but it wasn't for our side and about the modem...)


"Well is there any firewall that you can recomend that she can use that yours won't turn off?"


"No"


"So any firewall she uses will be turned off by yours?"


"Yes"


"Why didn't anyone ever tell her that when she called? She has spent thousands of dollars on software and reformats because of the damage the hackers did to her computer!"


... how she kept her containence, is very commendable. I didn't.


I said, after some other choice things, "Right. That's it. I'm quitting!"


Mom said, "What about the $700 early canselation fee?"


I said, "If we had been getting good service we would not be cancelling. They didn't keep their side of the deal"


Obviously, They don't consider it "hacking" if they do it themselves. I would consider turning off someone's firewalls so that they will be able to continue using the victim's computer as a server without their knowlege or permission HACKING!


I called them up when I got home and cancelled. He said he was sorry to hear that I wanted to cancel and could he offer me some options to make me change my mind?


I said, "You should have given me the option of being used as a server or not. You should have hepled me when I said I was being hacked. There's no way I'm staying with an ISP who are going to not only allow other people to hack me, but also hack me themselves!"


He said I would have to pay the $700 early canselation fee and $450 tecnical support.


I said, "What tecnical support? You never gave me any tecnical support. Helping someone get back online now and then comes with the service - and you never once tried to help me get rid of the hacking problems I had! You even caused them. I signed up with you for internet service. I have a really good reasons to call it off. You breeched the contract"



I had done a lot of research and I have a lot of screenshots of dodgy things that went on including network maps showing the 3 other computers directly connected to us by HN themselves and lists of ones we were "serving" and I sent some of them to my bank to contest the bills we had paid them. Unfortunately they could only go back so far, but we did get some back. Hughes Net had no position to argue so they had to give it back. I contested them twice before the conversation my Mother had with that person who thought that if you turn off someone's firewall they won't get hacked. After the cancellation I contested two months that we HAD paid for during which we had been completely cut off for no reason. I got back $900 in all, but I feel cheated about all of the money we spent on security software and computer repairs due to their imposissions on our rights and privacy! I want my book back. That can never happen. Some of the things that the creeps HN let in took are lost forever...


3 days after I told them to diconnect us, I could still access not only the router Home page, but also the engineers' info. Our new modem had come and I didn't want to plug it in and get sucked up into the HN connection. She said I had been disconnected. I said, if I had been disconnected I would not be purusing their engineers' pages as we spoke.


They wanted $450 to take the dish down and someone was supposed to come to do it within 48 hrs and that had been exceeded. I had my son take down the dish because it was clear we would not be disconnected any other way. I could still turn on my modem and see what other people were looking up. We told them we had done the work for them and they were welcome to pick it up any time. They still wanted the $450 to pick it up! We said no way. Then they wanted us to send it back for reimbursement. We said no way. Finally they told my son that the radio transmitter was all they needed back and they would send us $200 for sending it. I'm not stupid. We said as soon as they sent us the prepaid package we would.


A few days later they called to see if I had sent back. I said, no, and he said I had 45 days to send it and they would send us back $300. I am still waiting for the prepaid packaging.


He said "I checked to see if you were elegable for credit (meaning the $700 ECF) and you're not"


I said, "We are and I'm not going to argue about it"


I'd had enough of that before we called it quits. I told him that we had had too much abuse from them already and that they owed us a lot more than they thought we owed them. They had $1700 worth of "Server" service off of us for free...then there's the money we wasted trying to secure our computer that was never going to be worth it because they kept turning it off, and then the money we wasted on the repairs caused by hacking...I said if they ever contacted me again about money I would charge them with harrassment.


Then he had the gaull to ask me "Is there anything else you'd like to know about Hughes Net?"


I calmly said, "Absolutely not. Goodbye"


and hung up. "Good," I thought. It's all finished.


No, it's not.


We recently got a letter from a collection agency. They still claim we owe them money. They harrassed us the entire time from the day of the installation, when they gave us a router that was made especially to invite wireless access to anyone, refusing to do something about the hackers it attracted, not to mention asigning someone to keep a watch out for when we tried to block access from outsiders to our computer so that they could keep it open to traffic...


They have the audassity to send a collection agency. That is harrassment.


pepMySpwAddrShow -


ox(200105b0:00000000:00000001:f40144e3)



Peerlist:


IP:0xf60000a2 Type: Permanent 92.242.140.11


SDS IP Address...192.168.0.1


Switch Dest Ports...80,8080


Bypass Rules:


Dest IP Dest Mask


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


69.193.112.0 225.225.254.0


70.243.112.0 225.225.254.0


207.71.43.0 225.225.255.0


64.186.176.0 225.225.240.0


63.251.179.0 225.225.255.255


66.82.20.50 225.225.255.255


208.81.96.2 225.225.255.255


Server Statistics:


DhcpDiscoverRx 2


DhcpRequestRx 21


DhcpOfferTx 2


DhcpAckTx 21


dcaStatusShow:


server functionality is enabled


Virtual Port IP Sdress Config:


port # [0]: 1


Our Virtual Port IP Address[0]:244.1.68.227


Pep Enabled[0]: 1


DHCP Relay Enabled


TCP Spoof Enabled


Port Adaption[1]: 0 (LAN)


Port State[1]: 0 Active


IP Task Level 3 Statistics:


User Port 1


LAN Status (Active/Idle: 1


Lui Rqst 96


pa MaxChannellLpading = 24.00


ShowMctDAT:


FID 12 DestAddress262148


BID 2 TMF 75


VPN 255


NAT CORE


pkts_xlat: 30845


pkts_not_xlat: 30530


napt_xlats: 12


inbound_xlats: 12


outbound_xlats: 30833


proxy_not_xlats: 61072


int_not_xlats: 30845


icmp_xlats: 196


tcp_xlats: 74


udp_xlats: 30575


pkts_filtered: 3


Misc:


local_lan_pkts: 1965


Configuration:


notes_received: 1


nat_instances_created: 1


intnat_instances_created: 1


Extranet Multihoming:


Num pkt from LAN filtered: 3


Ping to GI NAPT address from space: 12


SCHP IP Address...127.0.0.1


Hsb Domain: sslxl: com


Network Information:


St Mgmt IP Address: 72.0.11.28 *


St MAC Addr: 00-80-AE-A3-FC-C5


St Upam IP Address: 169.254.0.1


* I looked up 72.0.11.28 and found it belonged to a company called "Citi Street"


The MAC Address belongs to a device made a compant called "Packet Front" and is owned by Hughes Net


IPs 169.254.121.117 and 169.254.121.118 both also belong to that MAC Address. The latter was a Bluetooth device and when I typed that IP into Google I got a site about a Nokia 6000 cell phone. THIS person must have been VERY local.


TL4 General configuration...


TL4 Swotch Enabled


Total Applications - 1


MGT Operation Mode - Disabled


Max Retx SYNs - 2


TCP Checksum - Disabled (Validation)


CCB Stats...


Peak CCBs - 1


Effective CCBs Allocated: 151


CCBs in Free List: 150


Current CCBs State: <Guess I missed this one>


Closed: 150


TCP Pkt Stats:


Rcvd from SDC...13


Sent from SDC...13


MAC Address LAN 1:00-80-AE-A3-FC-C5


IP 169.254.121.117,


IP 169.254.121.118,


IP 72.0.11.28


MAC Address LAN 2:00-80-AE-A3-FC-E2


(OUR MODEM)


Rnable AtVP flag is FALSE



MultiCastGatekeeper IP 0.0.0.0


Virtual Port Number = 1


Virtual Port Address = 32.1.5.176 (0)


Virtual Port Address = 0.0.0.0 (1)


Virtual Port Address = 0.0.0.1 (2)


Virtual Port Address = 244.168.227.3 (3)


I also found the following somewhere in that stuff:


Proxy Auth Reqd


SCHP IP Address 127.0.0.1


SCHP Listen Port 2000


IP Addr [1] : 192.168.0.1 (c0a80001) subnet Mask [1] : ffffff00


Broadcast Addr [1] : 192.168.0.255 (coa800ff)


? QUESTIONS ? This is stuff I never really figured out myself and still would like to know, just for curiosity's sake:


* Why did all of the IP Lookup sites but GRC locate us in Boise, Id while we live in Montana, our ISP was in Maryland, our Local Domain was in Virginia? Was the IP GRC found a NAT router?


* The router pages that they let you see mentioned "Spoofing" as something that was OK. I saw 2 different tallies of spoofed TCP connections - 1 and 3. According to my research


on-line, "Spoofing" is a form of attack.


Securuty Focus has an article headed, "IP Spoofing Attacks and Hyjacked Terminal Connections"


This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 11/23/2009 11:23 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Hughes-Net-Systems/GERMANTOWN-Maryland-/Hughes-Net-Systems-Hughes-Net-hacks-their-customers-GERMANTOWN-Maryland-527861. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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1Author 1Consumer 0Employee/Owner
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#1 Consumer Comment

Not really a rebuttal, but some IT information

AUTHOR: TK_Atomic - (United States of America)

Hi,

I'm a customer of Hughesnet. I'm also an IT technician and I think I can shed some light on the technical aspects of Hughesnet satelite internet (I've had to install my own satellite, dish and all, a couple times)

First of all, Hughesnet tech support is at best, uninformed. Go ahead and take anything they say with a grain of salt, including the person that told you they were disabling your firewall. Here's why...

Yes, they do have the ability to disable your firewall. But it's the firewall on your modem, not your computer. This is an important differentiation because if it was the one on your computer, they would have to do real hacking, like brute forcing a password or a dictionary attack. Instead, what they are doing is connecting to their modem that you are using and making changes there. Type in the modem's IP address in your browser and go to "System Info." In the bottom right corner, you will probably see "NPR: Enabled, DHCP: Enabled, Firewall: Disabled, etc" This is normal.

Now about the rest, I have the HN7000S and it doesn't have a wireless router built in. I looked up the HN9000 that you have and I don't think it has wireless built-in either, but I can't be certain. There's a knowledge base article at hughesnet ( http://kb.hughesnet.com/al/12/2/1189.htm) that describes adding a wireless router to your Hughesnet modem network, but that implies that there is not one already built-in.

What this means is that people could not be "hacking" or using your network from the modem. Yes, the backend information you got from the modem says you are running in server mode and gives out IP addresses, but this is necessary. It is designed to give out IP's via DHCP so that you have one less step to do when setting it up. I hate to break it to you, but they were telling the truth about not hacking your computer and about disabling the firewall, just the incomplete/ill-explained truth.

As far as the spoofing/proxy info and the IP addresses you noted in the modem information, one of which you said came from "CitiStreet" and another from Packet Front. I googled these and found that packetfront makes internet backbone hardware, the kind that you'd find at a big ISP like Hughesnet. CitiStreet in Quincy, MA, which is listed in the WhoIs info on that IP, is either a law firm or the former company name of ING.com, a financial company. Not sure what that means, but it doesn't seem like the kind of company that would target individuals for hacking or mooch off of your internet.

The spoofing/proxy stuff is related to the Hughesnet "backbone" or the network that makes up HughesNet. It has to do with the way satellite works. Your computer sends a request for a web page, google.com for example. That request goes to your modem, which changes and masks your local IP address so that the internet can work, which in turns gets sent to the satellite. After this, my information gets fuzzy as to where it's routed, but here goes. Your request, from the satellite, is routed to Hughes headquaters in the NW United States. This is called the NOC in all of HughesNet's literature. The NOC houses the firewall that that one guy told you is sufficient and also does some other things ( I found this article after searching for a way to circumvent their censorship of certain websites, which caught my favorite tech site in it's wake.) From the NOC, your request is once again altered (The "headers" or, the instructions that allow your request to be routed, are the only thing that is altered) and an IP address is spoofed.

The reason IP's are spoofed like in the example above is because there are a limited number of IP address in the world. Also, note, this is not the same as spoofing in hacking, which involves the impersonation of another person's network info for the purpose of a man-in-the-middle attack. Hughesnet is not impersonating you, the spoofing their hardware does is such that, at the border between their network and the rest of the internet and also at the border between your modem and their network, the IP address is "translated" to another IP that is Public. The original IP was 192.168.xxx.xxx. After NAT (the acronym for the translation, or spoofing), this IP becomes something that the rest of the world can see and use, like 169.254.xxx.xxx. This is most likely what the Spoofing in the modem info is referring to. They make less hardware do more, by spoofing or translating.

I'm not saying HughesNet is right in this situation about the way they treated you. It's like pulling teeth to get any useful information out of them. But their claims that they were not hacking seem correct from a technical standpoint. It would involve a lot of time to brute force your password on your computer. However, they do have access to your modem and make changes as necessary to the configuration, annoying but not illegal.

As far as the people congregating outside your house, they could be mooching off of someone else's internet or maybe you have some wireless device on your network (bluetooth, another router, etc) But it's hard to say without being there. Some things you can do are to get a cheap, wired router and have someone help you set it up behind the modem you are now using. This will provide a firewall that you control and will add another layer of security (albeit a weak one) to your network. Also, put strong passwords on all your computers and your router. Use numbers, Capital letters, and lowercase. Keep an up-to-date anti-virus, though I'm sure you know that already. Sometimes, if you think you've been hacked, get someone else to plug in the hard drive from your computer into their computer as a second hard drive and run a virus scan with a different anti-virus. It sometimes picks up things your normal one misses.

Sorry it's so long and sorry about your problems with HughesNet. I hope I explained it well enough. Let me know if you have any questions. On the off chance that you don't believe me and think HughesNet did hack your computer, I would like to refer you broadbandreports.com You can ask them whether or not HughesNet will hack you to get a second opinion. Also, people that say you can't be hacked or that it's impossible to be hacked are not telling the truth. It's always possible unless you turn off you computer and destroy it, security just makes it so time-consuming that you become an undesirable target.

- Tim
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#2 Author of original report

HughesNet have stopped bothering us

AUTHOR: Raven S - (United States of America)

I last wrote here about Hughes Net having contacted me asking for money through a colletion agency after I had told them I would take legal action if they contacted me again. My Mother spoke to the man it said to call, thinking it was fo something else.

When she was told it was for HN she made it very clear that they had sent her an email verifying the close of my subscription which did not mention any payments outstanding. She told the man that she wanted it on record that she had told him they would recieve nothing and that we were serious about taking legal action if they continued to harrass me.

We thought it was interesting that they had sent me to a collection agency without having tried once more to solicit a payment from the bank.

 

 

 

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