- Report: #527861
Report - Rebuttal - Arbitrate
Complaint Review: Hughes Net Systems
Hughes Net Systems11717 Exploration Lane GERMANTOWN,, Maryland United States of America
Hughes Net Systems Hughes Net hacks their customers! GERMANTOWN, Maryland
*Consumer Comment: Not really a rebuttal, but some IT information
*Author of original report: HughesNet have stopped bothering us
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I'm writing this complaint because I believe that something needs to be done about how Hughes Net threats their customers. Actually, I think there needs to be an independant organization to keep an eye on ALL ISPs. They are not the only ISP who treats it's customers badly...but that's another story.
We signed up with HN in November of 2008. I chose the satellite setup because one option was to run transmissions through a cable to and from the computer and you don't need to risk getting caught on a local wireless network. This is not what we got. We had been hacked on our former connection. We didn't need or want wireless access because we only have one computer and it's a desktop. I told the HN sales person that on the phone when I signed up. I also told the installer very clearly that we did not want wireless access and why. He took 2 days to do the installation. I had taken the appointed day off of work to oversee and make sure he remembered NOT to set it up for wireless access. Well, I wasn't there and he did. It didn't take long to figure it out. The usual number of cars kept pulling up and parking in front of the house with no one getting out to visit anyone, and we were still getting the exact problems we had before. We were sharing a connection device again but the device happened to be - drumroll please...OUR HN9000 MODEM!
I called them and told them I wanted the wireless access turned off immediately. They asked me if I was using a router.
I said, "No"
but that the modem obviously had one built in and we were not the only people using it for access. I told them I wan'ted the wireless turned OFF. I asked them to give us a static IP and configure it so that it would only give access to that IP but they wouldn't do it.
They could have solved the problem right then...
Instead they tried to tell me that the HN9000 doesn't have a router built in and that it is impoossible to hack one. I would have believed them if it were true but...
1st off, You don't get a 192 # unless you are using a router.
2nd, They claim in their own advertisements that the HN9000 CAN act as a local router and you can set up a home or small office network with it. I actually tried reading some of these to them over the phone and they still denied it! Who were they lying to? Me, or the rest of the world?
After asking them to do something about the wireless hacking didn't work, begging them to do something didn't work, and yelling at them to do something didn't work, 8 months had gone by and some very terrible things had happened because we had been forced to give access of our computer to people who abused us. Among these things was - I was writing a story and it was coming along brilliantly. After every update I put it on disk. Unfortunately one of the things these creeps would do was interfere with us when we transfered things back and forth onto CDs. They stole my story.
I thought, "At least I still have it on disk"
and went to put it back on. All of the folders on the disk were empty! I don't remember what I wrote exactly, and I don't think l'll ever be able to write it as good again. I'm heartbroken. That's just one example. The list is very long.
We told them we would not pay them anymore until they stopped the hacking and started giving us the service we had asked for. Instead of coming through with better service, they cut us off completel. before the service was sparatic - but not the connection. The cars kept coming and we could turn on the the modem and type in ipconfig /displaydns and see what things they had been looking up! Also I could still access the router pages and get ARP readings. You can't get ARP readings unless you are DIRECTLY connected to A nework of some kind. They had already cut off my email service BEFORE we had stopped paying them, without telling me why. It was one of the reasons we rebelled.
More proof that their phone help people were lying to me when they said that no one could access our connection wirelessly is written right on the modem itself. I found it after we cancelled our subscription. Here it is:
"This device complies with part 15 of the FCC Rules. Operation is subject to the following two conditions (1) This device may not cause harmful interference, and (2) This device must accept any interference received including interference that may cause undesireable operation"
In other words, it not only CAN be used as a local router, it MUST be used as a local router, whether the subscriber likes it or not! I believe this is by design - to be able to expand their transmission territory while saving themseves the expence of buying more equipment or paying rent for proper servers. Anyone have a better theory?
One day, when we had been cut off I got bored. With nothing to do, I analysed all I could on the router pages they let you see. Out of curiosity I clicked on the little man on the top of the page and guess what? I got into the pages they DON'T LET you see. Oh, how I wish I would have stumbled onto it sooner! I could have seen what and who they had us connnected to in full glory, but alass...I wrote it down case sensitively but some of the spacing may have gotten lost or added in translation. I haven't got a clue what most of this stuff means, but some of it is obvious. This I have added at the bottom of the post. It clearly states in this information:
That we were in "Server" mode, and who the "Network administrator" was among other things of interest, which they had denied for 10 months. I had told them all of the IPs and corispondining MACs that were directly connected to our connection and they did nothing about it. I found out why when I stumbled onto the following info. It happens that they had appointed the Network admin and some of the other sharers themselves, without our knowledge or consent! They had been telling me the whole time that we we not sharing a connection with anyone and yet they knew all along that we were because they had arranged some of them themselves. All of the IPs and MACs that I had given them were there. Also they left a way for anyone else who wanted to join the party to do so wirelessly by giving us a modem that was made for the soul purpose of giving access to everyone within its radious. To make it worse, they blocked ALL emails and letters that I wrote to forums and websites asking for help with the hacking. They ALL came back via Mailer Demon (I spelled it that way intentionally) having all orts of jibberish on them and certain words were marked certain ways every time. I think they were being filtered.
What is the very most aggravating about it is that after all of the times I had asked, begged, and then demanded that they cut off other peoples' access from our computer and had listened to them tell me over and over and over that the modem didn't have a router, that I was not getting hacked, and that I was not sharing my access, I had my mother, who is more eloquent than I am speak to them while I listened. My mother asked the person on the phone (who called himself Jimmy and would not disclose his last name) why they kept telling me that I was not being hacked when it was very clear that I was. He said because I wasn't being hacked and that I wasn't sharing my access.
She said, "She IS being hacked!" and she went down the list of what was happening and when she got to "...someone is even turning off and reconfigureing her firewalls!"
If I hadn't been there I wouldn't have believed it - He told her that it was HUGHES NET that were turning them off. I had tried absolutely all of the best softwares and had no success in the search for a firewall that "the hackers' couldn't turn off in an effort to protect my computer, only to find out that it wasn't "hackers" who were turning them off, it was my own ISP! Aparently theirs would alwasys override mine...
She clarified, "It was Hughes Net turning them off?"
"No wonder she's getting hacked if you've been turning off her firewalls! Why did you do that?"
"Because ours is sufficient"
"Well, its not sufficient if she's getting hacked"
"She's not getting hacked because no one can get through our firewall and no one can hack the modem"
(Maybe it was suficient on their side but it wasn't for our side and about the modem...)
"Well is there any firewall that you can recomend that she can use that yours won't turn off?"
"So any firewall she uses will be turned off by yours?"
"Why didn't anyone ever tell her that when she called? She has spent thousands of dollars on software and reformats because of the damage the hackers did to her computer!"
... how she kept her containence, is very commendable. I didn't.
I said, after some other choice things, "Right. That's it. I'm quitting!"
Mom said, "What about the $700 early canselation fee?"
I said, "If we had been getting good service we would not be cancelling. They didn't keep their side of the deal"
Obviously, They don't consider it "hacking" if they do it themselves. I would consider turning off someone's firewalls so that they will be able to continue using the victim's computer as a server without their knowlege or permission HACKING!
I called them up when I got home and cancelled. He said he was sorry to hear that I wanted to cancel and could he offer me some options to make me change my mind?
I said, "You should have given me the option of being used as a server or not. You should have hepled me when I said I was being hacked. There's no way I'm staying with an ISP who are going to not only allow other people to hack me, but also hack me themselves!"
He said I would have to pay the $700 early canselation fee and $450 tecnical support.
I said, "What tecnical support? You never gave me any tecnical support. Helping someone get back online now and then comes with the service - and you never once tried to help me get rid of the hacking problems I had! You even caused them. I signed up with you for internet service. I have a really good reasons to call it off. You breeched the contract"
I had done a lot of research and I have a lot of screenshots of dodgy things that went on including network maps showing the 3 other computers directly connected to us by HN themselves and lists of ones we were "serving" and I sent some of them to my bank to contest the bills we had paid them. Unfortunately they could only go back so far, but we did get some back. Hughes Net had no position to argue so they had to give it back. I contested them twice before the conversation my Mother had with that person who thought that if you turn off someone's firewall they won't get hacked. After the cancellation I contested two months that we HAD paid for during which we had been completely cut off for no reason. I got back $900 in all, but I feel cheated about all of the money we spent on security software and computer repairs due to their imposissions on our rights and privacy! I want my book back. That can never happen. Some of the things that the creeps HN let in took are lost forever...
3 days after I told them to diconnect us, I could still access not only the router Home page, but also the engineers' info. Our new modem had come and I didn't want to plug it in and get sucked up into the HN connection. She said I had been disconnected. I said, if I had been disconnected I would not be purusing their engineers' pages as we spoke.
They wanted $450 to take the dish down and someone was supposed to come to do it within 48 hrs and that had been exceeded. I had my son take down the dish because it was clear we would not be disconnected any other way. I could still turn on my modem and see what other people were looking up. We told them we had done the work for them and they were welcome to pick it up any time. They still wanted the $450 to pick it up! We said no way. Then they wanted us to send it back for reimbursement. We said no way. Finally they told my son that the radio transmitter was all they needed back and they would send us $200 for sending it. I'm not stupid. We said as soon as they sent us the prepaid package we would.
A few days later they called to see if I had sent back. I said, no, and he said I had 45 days to send it and they would send us back $300. I am still waiting for the prepaid packaging.
He said "I checked to see if you were elegable for credit (meaning the $700 ECF) and you're not"
I said, "We are and I'm not going to argue about it"
I'd had enough of that before we called it quits. I told him that we had had too much abuse from them already and that they owed us a lot more than they thought we owed them. They had $1700 worth of "Server" service off of us for free...then there's the money we wasted trying to secure our computer that was never going to be worth it because they kept turning it off, and then the money we wasted on the repairs caused by hacking...I said if they ever contacted me again about money I would charge them with harrassment.
Then he had the gaull to ask me "Is there anything else you'd like to know about Hughes Net?"
I calmly said, "Absolutely not. Goodbye"
and hung up. "Good," I thought. It's all finished.
No, it's not.
We recently got a letter from a collection agency. They still claim we owe them money. They harrassed us the entire time from the day of the installation, when they gave us a router that was made especially to invite wireless access to anyone, refusing to do something about the hackers it attracted, not to mention asigning someone to keep a watch out for when we tried to block access from outsiders to our computer so that they could keep it open to traffic...
They have the audassity to send a collection agency. That is harrassment.
IP:0xf60000a2 Type: Permanent 22.214.171.124
SDS IP Address...192.168.0.1
Switch Dest Ports...80,8080
Dest IP Dest Mask
server functionality is enabled
Virtual Port IP Sdress Config:
port # : 1
Our Virtual Port IP Address:244.1.68.227
Pep Enabled: 1
DHCP Relay Enabled
TCP Spoof Enabled
Port Adaption: 0 (LAN)
Port State: 0 Active
IP Task Level 3 Statistics:
User Port 1
LAN Status (Active/Idle: 1
Lui Rqst 96
pa MaxChannellLpading = 24.00
FID 12 DestAddress262148
BID 2 TMF 75
Num pkt from LAN filtered: 3
Ping to GI NAPT address from space: 12
SCHP IP Address...127.0.0.1
Hsb Domain: sslxl: com
St Mgmt IP Address: 126.96.36.199 *
St MAC Addr: 00-80-AE-A3-FC-C5
St Upam IP Address: 169.254.0.1
* I looked up 188.8.131.52 and found it belonged to a company called "Citi Street"
The MAC Address belongs to a device made a compant called "Packet Front" and is owned by Hughes Net
IPs 169.254.121.117 and 169.254.121.118 both also belong to that MAC Address. The latter was a Bluetooth device and when I typed that IP into Google I got a site about a Nokia 6000 cell phone. THIS person must have been VERY local.
TL4 General configuration...
TL4 Swotch Enabled
Total Applications - 1
MGT Operation Mode - Disabled
Max Retx SYNs - 2
TCP Checksum - Disabled (Validation)
Peak CCBs - 1
Effective CCBs Allocated: 151
CCBs in Free List: 150
Current CCBs State: <Guess I missed this one>
TCP Pkt Stats:
Rcvd from SDC...13
Sent from SDC...13
MAC Address LAN 1:00-80-AE-A3-FC-C5
MAC Address LAN 2:00-80-AE-A3-FC-E2
Rnable AtVP flag is FALSE
MultiCastGatekeeper IP 0.0.0.0
Virtual Port Number = 1
Virtual Port Address = 184.108.40.206 (0)
Virtual Port Address = 0.0.0.0 (1)
Virtual Port Address = 0.0.0.1 (2)
Virtual Port Address = 244.168.227.3 (3)
I also found the following somewhere in that stuff:
Proxy Auth Reqd
SCHP IP Address 127.0.0.1
SCHP Listen Port 2000
IP Addr  : 192.168.0.1 (c0a80001) subnet Mask  : ffffff00
Broadcast Addr  : 192.168.0.255 (coa800ff)
? QUESTIONS ? This is stuff I never really figured out myself and still would like to know, just for curiosity's sake:
* Why did all of the IP Lookup sites but GRC locate us in Boise, Id while we live in Montana, our ISP was in Maryland, our Local Domain was in Virginia? Was the IP GRC found a NAT router?
* The router pages that they let you see mentioned "Spoofing" as something that was OK. I saw 2 different tallies of spoofed TCP connections - 1 and 3. According to my research
on-line, "Spoofing" is a form of attack.
Securuty Focus has an article headed, "IP Spoofing Attacks and Hyjacked Terminal Connections"
This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 11/23/2009 11:23 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Hughes-Net-Systems/GERMANTOWN-Maryland-/Hughes-Net-Systems-Hughes-Net-hacks-their-customers-GERMANTOWN-Maryland-527861. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.
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