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  • Report: #315621

Complaint Review: J & J Paints & Paints And Quarter Horses

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  • Submitted: Fri, March 07, 2008
  • Updated: Tue, April 01, 2008

  • Reported By:Peosta Iowa
J & J Paints & Paints And Quarter Horses
2525 Lease Drive Dodgeville, Wisconsin U.S.A.

J & J Paints & Paints And Quarter Horses Know your horse sense when making a purchase here. Dodgeville Wisconsin

*Consumer Suggestion: ABOUT JJ PAINTS

*Consumer Comment: Something is definitely wrong here.

*Author of original report: J & J Paints own web site states otherwise ... NO 30 day contract.

*Author of original report: The Bill of Sale I signed states otherwise ... No 30-day contract offered

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Sold horse w/30 day contract and offered discount...helped her all we could.

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Just a heads-up on this operation ... I'll tell my story and you can be the judge.

At the end of September 07, I purchased a 16hh, eight-year-old quarter horse gelding from Jill at J & J Paints, for $3,000. "Midnight" was described as a gentle giant, a horse for the whole family. I made it clear to Jill that I was an inexperienced rider and needed a nice, calm horse that I'd be able to handle. She told me that Midnight would be the perfect horse for me and my family. She also said that Midnight acted like the dominant horse, but he actually wasn't. I didn't know what that meant at the time, and I suppose I still don't.

I noticed when Midnight arrived at my stable, where there were approx. 20 other horses, he wasn't going to let any of them push him around. Right from the beginning he was bossy and pushy with the other horses, and they let him have his way.

I was soon intimidated by him also. He quickly learned that I was inexperienced and took full advantage of that. He became bossy and pushy with me in no time. He also had a LOT of energy. The second time I took him out to ride in an open field, I turned him to ride farther into the field when he suddenly did a 180 and headed back toward the stable ... at full speed. How I stayed on him, God only knows, but by the time he stopped, I'd pulled back on the reins so hard that I broke my right ring finger. I was terrified! The adrenaline rush was so powerful, it took a couple of minutes before I even felt the pain. I never rode him outside the arena again, except when my husband was with me, and walking beside me.

Being the braver one, my husband would take him out into the field and just let him run. We later learned that he had some thoroughbred in him, which was why he enjoyed running so much. He was definitely NOT the gentle giant I was lead to believe he was. And I would NEVER let my kids ride him outside the arena, even though they are all teenagers.

I also noticed after about a month, when I'd lead him back into the pasture with the other horses, he would trot around the whole pasture with his head about a foot off the ground, moving the other horses around. I was told he was separating the herd. When he'd come upon certain horses, he'd squeal and try to bite them, then run them off completely. He would corner some of them and try to pick a fight. This lasted about a month, then it got worse ... he began mounting the mares. He even climbed over a heavy metal gate, practically demolishing it, to get to the mares on the other side. I'm not sure how he did this without injuring himself, but somehow he managed. We then separated him from the mares completely, and he paced so much he began losing weight.

I called my vet who ran some tests on him and he determined Midnight had been properly gelded, but instead had a tumor that was full of testosterone. This wasn't life threatening, but he needed a home with other geldings, which I couldn't give him. My vet, along with several other horse people, said there was no way this tumor just "showed up" ... Midnight had to have shown some of these symptoms long before I bought him.

In the meantime, I kept in touch with Jill, updating her on all these disturbing incidents. She claimed Midnight did none of this while she owned him, and she had him for eight months. This conflicted with the opinions of my vet, surgeon, and other horse people.

Jill offered to take him to the sale barn and also offered me a discount on another one of her horses. So at the beginning of February, after owning Midnight for a little over four months (and falling in love with him), I sold my $3,000 horse for $650.

Afterward, I looked at three other horses at Jill's, but none of them seemed right for me. My family couldn't believe I'd even consider giving this woman more of my money. I had to agree and have since bought another horse elsewhere.

So again ... judge for yourself. I think it's only fair to inform the buyer what they might run into when they do business with this operation. I wish I would have had this web site as a reference beforehand.

Marcia
Peosta, Iowa
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 03/07/2008 09:17 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/J-J-Paints-Paints-And-Quarter-Horses/Dodgeville-Wisconsin-53533/J-J-Paints-Paints-And-Quarter-Horses-Know-your-horse-sense-when-making-a-purchase-here-315621. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
0Author 4Consumer 1Employee/Owner
Updates & Rebuttals

#1 Consumer Suggestion

ABOUT JJ PAINTS

AUTHOR: Horseman - (U.S.A.)

MIDNIGHT I FILL SO SORRY FOR YOU, I USED TO LIVE IN WISC AND VISITS THEIR PLACE ONE TIME AND I GLADLY LEFT WITH OUT BUYING FROM THEM. I HAVE NEVER HEARD ANY THING BUT BAD ABOUT JJ PRACTICES. THEY GO TO SELLS AND BUYS CRAP HORSES AND SELLS CRAP HORSES.
MIDNIGHT CONTACT ME I CAN GIVE YOU A LINK TO A COUPLE PLAVES THAT WONT DO YOU WRONG IN YOUR AREA.
(((ROR redacted)))
CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.
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#2 Consumer Comment

Something is definitely wrong here.

AUTHOR: Sandra - (U.S.A.)

I have been involved with show horses for more than 30 years and this report disturbed me. The comment made by the seller that the horse was "dominant" should have been a red flag. In my experience, "gentle giants" are just that: They are docile around other horses AND people. It's a shame that the buyer did not have the advice of a knowledgeable horse person who could have observed this horse BEFORE the sale was completed.

From the behavior described, and the tumor, I would suggest that it is possible that this gelding was "proud cut" when he was gelded. The "tumor" makes this uncertain of course, but it is my suspicion. Such animals are not suitable for families who desire a quiet,trail horse for riding pleasure.

The fact that this horse was represented to be a registered quarter horse makes his sale price acceptable, but when the papers did not materialize, I believe the seller misrepresented the gelding's true breeding. She should have made this buyer whole and taken the loss herself. There is a HUGE difference between $3,000 for a registered horse, versus $650 for an unregistered ill-behaved one. this seller should be ashamed of herself.
While most horses require a little settling in time, generally, bad behaviors that are seen from the onset were usually there before the move.

I would have to concur, based on the report, that this horse trader should be avoided. I am sorry this happened to you, and I would suggest that in the future, find a reputable adviser before purchasing a horse from ANYONE.
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#3 Author of original report

J & J Paints own web site states otherwise ... NO 30 day contract.

AUTHOR: Midnight - (U.S.A.)

Just to reaffirm my previous statement and protect anyone else who deals with this operation, they offer NO 30 day contract on their horses. Here's the link to J & J Paints' web site: http://www.angelfire.com/wi/painthorses/JJPaintsandquarterhorseshorsesales.html

Unless she changes this, which I hope she does for everyone's benefit, this site states exactly what I've written previously: 'When you buy a horse you take ownership of that horse the day it leaves our facility. Once it leaves our facility and it becomes lame or sick or you find something that we or you missed at time of sale, you still own the horse.' This 30 day contract she speaks of was neither in written form nor verbally spoken when I purchased Midnight.

When Jill mentions that she offered me an exchange for another horse, this isn't completely true. She offered me a "discount" on another horse and she would take Midnight to the sale barn herself. Therefore she would collect the funds for Midnight's sale AND more money from me when I purchased another horse from her. That's why I chose to sell Midnight myself.

The tumor wasn't a guarantee, no, but it was an educated guess by a vet who has seen this many times and a surgeon who has operated on many horses with this type of tumor. My money goes on their opinion, not someone wanting to sell a horse. I would be interested, though, in her diagnosis of a horse that is full of testosterone and has been properly gelded.

In response to her statement that only people who want to complain show up on this web site, yes, that's true. That is why this site is called Rip-off Report. We're not here to celebrate a job well done. And I'm not writing this report so much as to complain as I am to warn others. It's taken me a couple of months to actually write this report because I honestly don't want to damage anyone's livelihood. But I also feel it is all horse buyers' responsibility to protect other horse buyers. I would not have gone through everything I did with Midnight had I read a report such as this one.

And I don't believe there's anyone who wouldn't be unhappy about buying a $3,000 horse and selling him four months later for $650. When you include the vet bills on top of this and the transportation fees Jill charged me to deliver Midnight, then take him to the sale barn, my loss is much greater than the price I paid for my horse.

All that aside, I had to sell a horse I fell in love with, and yes, this has caused my family a great distress and for me, a lot of tears. But after all is said and done, my main concern is that Midnight is in a good home, with relief from all his stress.
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#4 Author of original report

The Bill of Sale I signed states otherwise ... No 30-day contract offered

AUTHOR: Midnight - (U.S.A.)

The contract I signed states word-for-word: "When you buy a horse you take ownership of that horse the day it leaves our facility. Once it leaves our facility and it becomes lame or sick or you find something that we or you missed at time of sale. you still own the horse." Nowhere on this Bill of Sale does it mention a 30-day contract.

What I failed to mention earlier, my vet & surgeon also found it suspicious that it took over 30 days for Midnight to show these signs of aggression. They suggested he may have been given something which temporarily hid these symptoms. I have a hard time believing anyone would stoop to that level, and Jill firmly stated that she would never do such a thing.

Another thing I failed to mention. Jill told me she got Midnight from a divorced couple early in 2007. She said that Midnight was AQHA registered, but the husband wouldn't give the wife the registration papers, so of course, I never received the either. I was very suspicious of this in the beginning, now even more so.

If Jill would have shown good business ethics and resolved this in an honest manor, there's no doubt I would have purchased another horse from her and more than likely a more expensive one which was more suitable for my family. I also would have purchased my next horse from her and referred others to her as well.

Instead, I received no apology from her whatsoever for selling me a horse that was completely unsuitable for me. I had described to her exactly what I was looking for, and she sold me something completely different. This not only hurt me and my family, but affected Midnight as well.

Honesty and integrity are very important to me. That's why I feel the need to warn others and advise them to read the other Rip-off reports concerning J & J Paints. I've found four reports so far, some quite similar to my own. Search for "J & J" to be sure to get all of them. Be sure to read the Updates on the reports (near the bottom of the page) if there are any.
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#5 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Sold horse w/30 day contract and offered discount...helped her all we could.

AUTHOR: J & J - (U.S.A.)

Sold Midnight w/30 contract..after 4 months still tried to help. We sell all horses w/ 30 day contract. We have veterinarian references. Her options :to exchange him for another horse even after contract expired or take him to the sale she made that decison. We have many happy customers and it's impossible to control horses after they leave and how people handle them. Saying he has a tumor is a guess...we saw no sign of him doing this when we owned him. We are honest people and when selling a horse it's hard because we cannot know what an animal will do we can only represent them how they are. Of course only people that want to complaine show up here even if you guarantee the horses we just can't win with some people.
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