• Report: #294064

Complaint Review: JAGEX LTD

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  • Submitted: Sun, December 23, 2007
  • Updated: Fri, September 07, 2012

  • Reported By:Tillsonburg Ontario
JAGEX LTD
St. John's Innovation Centre, Cowley Road Cambridge, Other United Kingdom

JAGEX ,RUNESCAPE banned 1 year subscription after 6 days. Cheated 11 year-old child Cambridge Other

*Consumer Comment: Runescape is broken

*Consumer Suggestion: How to Contact JaGex Billing Department.

*Author of original report: JAGEX in disguise? Children natural liars, not to be trusted.

*Author of original report: JAGEX in disguise? Children natural liars, not to be trusted.

*Author of original report: JAGEX in disguise? Children natural liars, not to be trusted.

*Author of original report: JAGEX in disguise? Children natural liars, not to be trusted.

*Consumer Comment: This is not evidence

*Author of original report: Jagex "terrible customer support"

*Consumer Comment: Jagex has teribble customer support

*Author of original report: Macroing built into Windows OS etc.

*Consumer Comment: Your PC does have Macroing software ... it's built into the OS

*Consumer Comment: Your PC does have Macroing software ... it's built into the OS

*Consumer Comment: Your PC does have Macroing software ... it's built into the OS

*Consumer Comment: Your PC does have Macroing software ... it's built into the OS

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I paid JAGEX ~$68.00 for a one year Runescape membership on behalf of my 11 year old son. Six days later his account was "banned" for violation of RULE 7. This rule pertains to the use of software cheats in the game. My son does not have any such software, and has never, to his, or my knowledge, violated RULE 7.

JAGEX claims to be able to detect the use of improper software and bans the offending accounts. They claim to have "evidence" which cannot be disclosed because it will aid cheaters. The "view evidence" tab in their violation report contains nothing i.e. "no evidence available".

I completed the 400 character appeal explaining largely the same as the above. The appeal reply gave no evidence that the text I had sent had been read and considered. When researching the banning of Runescape accounts, I discovered a case on U Tube where a person had sent a 400 character string of obscenities and received verbatim the appeal response I received.

I filed a complaint with Paypal and have received no response.

My 11 year old son paid for a 1 year membership which was arbitrarily cancelled without cause after 6 days. The appeal process provided by Jagex is a sham. Runescape is claimed to be a "learning experience" for children; what lesson does this experience teach?

Anonymous (GUNN OP)
Tillsonburg, Ontario
Canada

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 12/23/2007 03:36 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/JAGEX-LTD/Cambridge-Other-CB4-OWS/JAGEX-RUNESCAPE-banned-1-year-subscription-after-6-days-Cheated-11-year-old-child-Cambri-294064. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 Consumer Comment

Runescape is broken

AUTHOR: juscrusing - (United States of America)

 Jagex has a serious in game problem they will not address!! I to was accused of "botting" and rolled back. THIS NEVER HAPPENED. No reply was ever given to my appeal and to top it off my account has been hacked and 300 million in items and gold removed!! Jagex reply? My fault!! I have paid money to this game for it to be ruined by your flawed system and customer service. User names everywhere "jsvhewn2i34ry3" are u serious?? and this is not a "bot"? But you roll back my PAID account claiming botting you are so full of it!!! Cant give back stolen items??? I worked and PAID for these items with my membership and another "member" of your game stole these things and I am told it is MY FAULT?! Worst your mods treat everyone as though we are a teen child.  I am a middle aged adult paying for my account and my two children.  I will not accept your false statements and LIES to your customers. Jagex has taken everything I PAID FOR now I expect a full refund for my entire membership or return of everything lost. I will continue customer complaints to every agency on the entire planet to warn everyone of your shady company.
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#2 Consumer Suggestion

How to Contact JaGex Billing Department.

AUTHOR: Deshale - (U.S.A.)

There are two ways to contact the billing department at Jagex
First go to the Knowledge base then navigate to this location and read the information provided.
Main Menu > Customer Support > Billing > FAQs > What is your refunds policy?
The other is by email billingsupport@Jagex.com, however the query is more likely to receive a response.
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#3 Author of original report

JAGEX in disguise? Children natural liars, not to be trusted.

AUTHOR: Anonymous (gunnop) - (Canada)

Deshale of Lynwood Washington is certainly a energetic disinterested third party on behalf of JAGEX. Not only responding twice to my complaint, but also to Ripoff case 183155 and 237240. Seems to know a lot about the workings of Runescape/JAGEX.

He/she/ wrote:
"So instead of asking your son IF he did this thing (which will only prompt him to lie) you should have asked him WHY he did this thing."

Good old American presumption of guilt? Let's ask the Duke University lacrosse team (falsely accused of rape, eventually vindicated and the DA disbarred).

A disinterested third party would avocate for a foreign corporation (JAGEX) claiming that children are natural liars and that parents should believe JAGEX instead of their own children?

"If your child does not learn accountability now at this age, he never will.
Remember Trust is like money, it's not a privledge or a right, it's something that is earned."

No, a child has a right to expect the trust of his parents (in the absence of evidence to the contrary). Every child has the right to a supportive and nurturing evironment. Blood is thicker than water and beats money every time.

"You can try writing to billing support and explain the situation. Don't protest your son's Innocents. They have heard it all and they're even less gullible than I am. Just simply state that you believe that because you had paid 1 year in advance on your son's account the unused months should be refunded. If you are reasonable, articulate and polite they might oblige you"

I was reasonable, articulate and polite when I completed the appeal to the original banning (see above). If there is a way to contact JAGEX, I haven't found it yet. I will continue to plead my son's innocence since he is innocent.

In the end I will "have my bond or my pound of flesh". I will get the money back or I will get JAGEX $68++ worth of negative publicity and headaches. This is a good forum for customer complaints, but it isn't the only game in town.
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#4 Author of original report

JAGEX in disguise? Children natural liars, not to be trusted.

AUTHOR: Anonymous (gunnop) - (Canada)

Deshale of Lynwood Washington is certainly a energetic disinterested third party on behalf of JAGEX. Not only responding twice to my complaint, but also to Ripoff case 183155 and 237240. Seems to know a lot about the workings of Runescape/JAGEX.

He/she/ wrote:
"So instead of asking your son IF he did this thing (which will only prompt him to lie) you should have asked him WHY he did this thing."

Good old American presumption of guilt? Let's ask the Duke University lacrosse team (falsely accused of rape, eventually vindicated and the DA disbarred).

A disinterested third party would avocate for a foreign corporation (JAGEX) claiming that children are natural liars and that parents should believe JAGEX instead of their own children?

"If your child does not learn accountability now at this age, he never will.
Remember Trust is like money, it's not a privledge or a right, it's something that is earned."

No, a child has a right to expect the trust of his parents (in the absence of evidence to the contrary). Every child has the right to a supportive and nurturing evironment. Blood is thicker than water and beats money every time.

"You can try writing to billing support and explain the situation. Don't protest your son's Innocents. They have heard it all and they're even less gullible than I am. Just simply state that you believe that because you had paid 1 year in advance on your son's account the unused months should be refunded. If you are reasonable, articulate and polite they might oblige you"

I was reasonable, articulate and polite when I completed the appeal to the original banning (see above). If there is a way to contact JAGEX, I haven't found it yet. I will continue to plead my son's innocence since he is innocent.

In the end I will "have my bond or my pound of flesh". I will get the money back or I will get JAGEX $68++ worth of negative publicity and headaches. This is a good forum for customer complaints, but it isn't the only game in town.
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#5 Author of original report

JAGEX in disguise? Children natural liars, not to be trusted.

AUTHOR: Anonymous (gunnop) - (Canada)

Deshale of Lynwood Washington is certainly a energetic disinterested third party on behalf of JAGEX. Not only responding twice to my complaint, but also to Ripoff case 183155 and 237240. Seems to know a lot about the workings of Runescape/JAGEX.

He/she/ wrote:
"So instead of asking your son IF he did this thing (which will only prompt him to lie) you should have asked him WHY he did this thing."

Good old American presumption of guilt? Let's ask the Duke University lacrosse team (falsely accused of rape, eventually vindicated and the DA disbarred).

A disinterested third party would avocate for a foreign corporation (JAGEX) claiming that children are natural liars and that parents should believe JAGEX instead of their own children?

"If your child does not learn accountability now at this age, he never will.
Remember Trust is like money, it's not a privledge or a right, it's something that is earned."

No, a child has a right to expect the trust of his parents (in the absence of evidence to the contrary). Every child has the right to a supportive and nurturing evironment. Blood is thicker than water and beats money every time.

"You can try writing to billing support and explain the situation. Don't protest your son's Innocents. They have heard it all and they're even less gullible than I am. Just simply state that you believe that because you had paid 1 year in advance on your son's account the unused months should be refunded. If you are reasonable, articulate and polite they might oblige you"

I was reasonable, articulate and polite when I completed the appeal to the original banning (see above). If there is a way to contact JAGEX, I haven't found it yet. I will continue to plead my son's innocence since he is innocent.

In the end I will "have my bond or my pound of flesh". I will get the money back or I will get JAGEX $68++ worth of negative publicity and headaches. This is a good forum for customer complaints, but it isn't the only game in town.
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#6 Author of original report

JAGEX in disguise? Children natural liars, not to be trusted.

AUTHOR: Anonymous (gunnop) - (Canada)

Deshale of Lynwood Washington is certainly a energetic disinterested third party on behalf of JAGEX. Not only responding twice to my complaint, but also to Ripoff case 183155 and 237240. Seems to know a lot about the workings of Runescape/JAGEX.

He/she/ wrote:
"So instead of asking your son IF he did this thing (which will only prompt him to lie) you should have asked him WHY he did this thing."

Good old American presumption of guilt? Let's ask the Duke University lacrosse team (falsely accused of rape, eventually vindicated and the DA disbarred).

A disinterested third party would avocate for a foreign corporation (JAGEX) claiming that children are natural liars and that parents should believe JAGEX instead of their own children?

"If your child does not learn accountability now at this age, he never will.
Remember Trust is like money, it's not a privledge or a right, it's something that is earned."

No, a child has a right to expect the trust of his parents (in the absence of evidence to the contrary). Every child has the right to a supportive and nurturing evironment. Blood is thicker than water and beats money every time.

"You can try writing to billing support and explain the situation. Don't protest your son's Innocents. They have heard it all and they're even less gullible than I am. Just simply state that you believe that because you had paid 1 year in advance on your son's account the unused months should be refunded. If you are reasonable, articulate and polite they might oblige you"

I was reasonable, articulate and polite when I completed the appeal to the original banning (see above). If there is a way to contact JAGEX, I haven't found it yet. I will continue to plead my son's innocence since he is innocent.

In the end I will "have my bond or my pound of flesh". I will get the money back or I will get JAGEX $68++ worth of negative publicity and headaches. This is a good forum for customer complaints, but it isn't the only game in town.
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#7 Consumer Comment

This is not evidence

AUTHOR: Deshale - (U.S.A.)

1. Parental supervision - his computer is less than 6 feet from this one. I can see and hear what he is doing.

Doesn't matter ... Macro software runs in the background. You wouldn't see it or hear it run. Plus you only watched while he was ON the PC ... He was most likely running it while he was away from the PC which is what most Macroing Programs for games like Runescape are designed for. If you had to be there while it was operating that would defeat the purpose of using Macros in the first place.

2. Objective evidence that he does not have the knowledge - He wouldn't ask me to move the mouse while he went to the washroom if he had a macro running that would do this for him.

Wanna bet? He knows its against the rules and he's not likely to turn it on while you're watching just to go to the rest room.

3. Jagex timestamped the 'offense' ~6:15 pm on WED Dec 12. My son was at a supervised church function with several of his friends (i.e. not in a location where he could possibly play this game). In a literal sense, GOD was his witness.

Firstly the time stamp is JAGEX time not your time. Secondly the whole point of cheaters using macro software is for the computer to play the game for them so they don't have to. Most players who use this kind of thing set the macro to play then leave the pc. They go to bed, leave the house and do other things (like supervised church functions) etc.

=====================

Your son really was Using macros and cheating at a game. Jagex is very very careful not to make mistakes when it comes to banning accounts for macroing because they RARELY accept appeals for violations of this rule. When they do it's usually only if the account was "hacked".

If you really want your son to learn something from this experience I suggest making him pay you back for the money you wasted.
Face it ... Our kids aren't always honest with us especially when it comes to silly things like cheating at games. Kids aren't naturally honest you know. They learn to be honest only if they are taught that being dishonest doesn't pay.

*before I get flamed about the kids not being naturally honest comment, think about this. If you ask a 3 year old boy who you just saw spill his drink on the floor these questions:
Did you spill that son?
Who spilled that drink?

You'll get these answers:
"No"
"I don't know"
or in some cases they will blame it on a sibling usually one thats not even present.

So instead of asking your son IF he did this thing (which will only prompt him to lie) you should have asked him WHY he did this thing.
If your child does not learn accountability now at this age, he never will.
Remember Trust is like money, it's not a privledge or a right, it's something that is earned.

Now all this is not to say you're not entitled to a refund of some kind. You say you payed for a whole year after all. The money for one month of unused membership should have been all that this cost you. If you had used a cc or bank card that is all you would have lost.

You can try writing to billing support and explain the situation. Don't protest your son's Innocents. They have heard it all and they're even less gullible than I am. Just simply state that you believe that because you had paid 1 year in advance on your son's account the unused months should be refunded. If you are reasonable, articulate and polite they might oblige you.
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#8 Author of original report

Jagex "terrible customer support"

AUTHOR: Anonymous (gunnop) - (Canada)

RE:
'Jagex bans for a reason" JAGEX wouldn't ban your account for RULE7 for no reason".

If my son was cheating, or if I thought he might have been cheating, I wouldn't spend time making this complaint. Three pieces of evidence that prove he was not cheating.

1. Parental supervision - his computer is less than 6 feet from this one. I can see and hear what he is doing.
2. Objective evidence that he does not have the knowledge - He wouldn't ask me to move the mouse while he went to the washroom if he had a macro running that would do this for him.
3. Jagex timestamped the "offence" ~6:15 pm on WED Dec 12. My son was at a superviser church function with several of his friends (i.e. not in a location where he could possibly play this game). In a literal sense, GOD was his witness.

JAGEX has an infallible system for detecting cheaters which is coupled to a purely random appeal system? How likely is it that JAGEX experts can achieve perfection with their detection system, but can't write kindegarden code for an appeal system that can distinguish between a rational appeal and a string of obscenties? You can't call a coin toss program an "appeal process".

JAGEX cannot unilaterally cancel a legal contract with a claim of infallibility, when it is coupled with appeal process whose performance that clearly demonstrates otherwise.

It is the claim to have "secret evidence" that cannot be revealed that is the crux of my complaint. If they have it, produce it. It is contrary to a 1000 years of common law practice to accept, on faith, the someone is guilty because the King, President, or JAGEX says it is so. This is the great writ of "habeas corpus". Show us the body.
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#9 Consumer Comment

Jagex has teribble customer support

AUTHOR: Mark - (U.S.A.)

Jagex is known for having terrible customer support. If you try to send them a message, most likely you'll get an automatic response.

But, Jagex bans for a reason. Your kids account was banned for breaking one of their rules. Most likely your kids did using cheating software. Cheating software is VERY easy to get, maybe they tried it once or something. But Jagex wouldn't ban your account for RULE 7 for no reason.

They have a way to find macro cheaters. They basically look for click patterns. If your account is clicking the same spot over and over its cheating. Im talking about EXACT clicks that only a cheating software would use. If your kids account never used software it wouldn't show up.

Trying to appeal is difficult. It seems that they decline or accept appeal randomly. I have seen where people send in nonsense like "my cat was tap dancing on the keyboard, it wasn't my fault", and Jagex accepted that and got their account unbanned. It makes no sense, I doubt they even look at the appeal, its just by change if gets accepted of not.

Writing a though out appeal is useless. They choose to decline or accept on random.
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#10 Author of original report

Macroing built into Windows OS etc.

AUTHOR: Anonymous (gunnop) - (Canada)

Comments with respect to Windows OS and macroing are true, however, the logical extension of this line of reasoning is that all Runescape players using Windows are "guilty". Since the overwhelming majority of PCs run Windows, it is not much of a business model for an online game to ban Windows OS.

I have handguns, knives, hammers, and axes in my home, none of which make me guilty of murder. That somebody could have done something, is not evidence that they did. That the may do something, is not evidence that they will.

Everyone should be immediately suspicious when an "entity" claims to posses "evidence too secret to reveal".

I registered this complaint primarily to teach my son that an accusation is not proof of guilt. It is important for every citizen (even an 11 year old)to stand up for fundamental justice.

I don't care about the money, but I won't roll over and play dead.
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#11 Consumer Comment

Your PC does have Macroing software ... it's built into the OS

AUTHOR: Deshale - (U.S.A.)

Jagex Terms of service state that children under the age of 13 can not create an account. You as the parent can create the account but are held responsible for all the activity your child engaged in while on the account. BTW this is the only instance that Jagex allows account sharing. They do not wish or condone a child under the age of 13 playing their game unsupervised.

Macro software is built into the windows system and most other Operating systems as well. It is as easy as pie to program your computer to commit a series of mouse clicks and key strokes which is what Jagex's Macro detection system detects. It detects the repetitive pattern that is timed exactly the same each and every time it receives a signal from your computer. A human is incapable of mimicking such a pattern. Jagex does not ban players for Macroing lightly or without being absolutely sure.

I would suggest a request for the remaining months of membership to be refunded but their refund policy is not generous towards players who have been caught cheating so I don't know how successful the request will be.

I would advise you to go to the Jagex site yourself. Read all the rules, terms of service, and their safety and security section. If you chose to continue to allow your child to play the game on a new account you should ensure that he is supervised at all times untill he is old enough to understand the rules and basic internet security.
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#12 Consumer Comment

Your PC does have Macroing software ... it's built into the OS

AUTHOR: Deshale - (U.S.A.)

Jagex Terms of service state that children under the age of 13 can not create an account. You as the parent can create the account but are held responsible for all the activity your child engaged in while on the account. BTW this is the only instance that Jagex allows account sharing. They do not wish or condone a child under the age of 13 playing their game unsupervised.

Macro software is built into the windows system and most other Operating systems as well. It is as easy as pie to program your computer to commit a series of mouse clicks and key strokes which is what Jagex's Macro detection system detects. It detects the repetitive pattern that is timed exactly the same each and every time it receives a signal from your computer. A human is incapable of mimicking such a pattern. Jagex does not ban players for Macroing lightly or without being absolutely sure.

I would suggest a request for the remaining months of membership to be refunded but their refund policy is not generous towards players who have been caught cheating so I don't know how successful the request will be.

I would advise you to go to the Jagex site yourself. Read all the rules, terms of service, and their safety and security section. If you chose to continue to allow your child to play the game on a new account you should ensure that he is supervised at all times untill he is old enough to understand the rules and basic internet security.
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#13 Consumer Comment

Your PC does have Macroing software ... it's built into the OS

AUTHOR: Deshale - (U.S.A.)

Jagex Terms of service state that children under the age of 13 can not create an account. You as the parent can create the account but are held responsible for all the activity your child engaged in while on the account. BTW this is the only instance that Jagex allows account sharing. They do not wish or condone a child under the age of 13 playing their game unsupervised.

Macro software is built into the windows system and most other Operating systems as well. It is as easy as pie to program your computer to commit a series of mouse clicks and key strokes which is what Jagex's Macro detection system detects. It detects the repetitive pattern that is timed exactly the same each and every time it receives a signal from your computer. A human is incapable of mimicking such a pattern. Jagex does not ban players for Macroing lightly or without being absolutely sure.

I would suggest a request for the remaining months of membership to be refunded but their refund policy is not generous towards players who have been caught cheating so I don't know how successful the request will be.

I would advise you to go to the Jagex site yourself. Read all the rules, terms of service, and their safety and security section. If you chose to continue to allow your child to play the game on a new account you should ensure that he is supervised at all times untill he is old enough to understand the rules and basic internet security.
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#14 Consumer Comment

Your PC does have Macroing software ... it's built into the OS

AUTHOR: Deshale - (U.S.A.)

Jagex Terms of service state that children under the age of 13 can not create an account. You as the parent can create the account but are held responsible for all the activity your child engaged in while on the account. BTW this is the only instance that Jagex allows account sharing. They do not wish or condone a child under the age of 13 playing their game unsupervised.

Macro software is built into the windows system and most other Operating systems as well. It is as easy as pie to program your computer to commit a series of mouse clicks and key strokes which is what Jagex's Macro detection system detects. It detects the repetitive pattern that is timed exactly the same each and every time it receives a signal from your computer. A human is incapable of mimicking such a pattern. Jagex does not ban players for Macroing lightly or without being absolutely sure.

I would suggest a request for the remaining months of membership to be refunded but their refund policy is not generous towards players who have been caught cheating so I don't know how successful the request will be.

I would advise you to go to the Jagex site yourself. Read all the rules, terms of service, and their safety and security section. If you chose to continue to allow your child to play the game on a new account you should ensure that he is supervised at all times untill he is old enough to understand the rules and basic internet security.
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