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  • Report: #77582

Complaint Review: JBC Legal Group - JBC & Associates - Jack H. Boyajian - Marv Brandon

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  • Submitted: Tue, January 20, 2004
  • Updated: Thu, February 12, 2004

  • Reported By:Dayton Minnesota
JBC Legal Group - JBC & Associates - Jack H. Boyajian - Marv Brandon
2 Broad St, 6th Floor Bloomfield, New Jersey U.S.A.
  • Phone: 973-259-1701
  • Web:
  • Category: Lawyers

JBC Legal Group,PC - JBC & Associates - Jack H. Boyajian, Marv Brandon ripoff Scam artists trying to get money from wrong person Bloomfield New Jersey

*UPDATE Employee: About NCO ....what is a debt collector to do?

*Consumer Comment: I called the news in Minnesota about this company.

*UPDATE Employee: training does involve a great deal of warning about violating the fdcpa

*Consumer Comment: Information regarding statutory fees

*Consumer Comment: Information regarding statutory fees

*Consumer Comment: Information regarding statutory fees

*Consumer Comment: Information regarding statutory fees

*Consumer Suggestion: JBC and Associates a bunch of morons, violate the FDCPA..so watch out...

*Consumer Suggestion: Oh I am not powerless at all. They did the same thing as JBC and even hired their collectors

*Consumer Comment: I think you are all failing to see the reality of how these guys operate.

*Consumer Comment: came across this website and am appalled at the number of complaints they have.

*Consumer Comment: came across this website and am appalled at the number of complaints they have.

*Consumer Comment: came across this website and am appalled at the number of complaints they have.

*Consumer Suggestion: Ridiculous, This company collects on time barred checks and uses illegal threats to collect on them.

*Consumer Comment: Objectivity flows like wine in the crossroads of America

*Consumer Comment: MICHELLE IN DAYTON, MN,...YOU ARE NOT ALONE

*Author of original report: sounds like you're trying to help them harrass me

*Author of original report: sounds like you're trying to help them harrass me

*Author of original report: sounds like you're trying to help them harrass me

*Author of original report: sounds like you're trying to help them harrass me

*Consumer Comment: The M.O. of JBC - 90% default judgment rate

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Got a letter from JBC asses stating I wrote a bad check for $8.07 to Blockbuster. They didn't have my name correct, only my address so I called them to let them know they had made a mistake.

I was told the only way to clear this up was to get a notarized letter from the bank the check was written at, stating I was not the person they were seeking.

In the mean time, I reported this to the BBB in New Jersey.

A few weeks after sending them the notorized letter, I received a letter from them stating that they had received a letter from the BBB and now I owed them $138.07. ($100. statutory fees and $30. return fee.)

What part of, they've got the wrong person don't they get?

Michelle
Dayton, Minnesota
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 01/20/2004 08:09 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/JBC-Legal-Group-JBC-Associates-Jack-H-Boyajian-Marv-Brandon/Bloomfield-New-Jersey-07003/JBC-Legal-GroupPC-JBC-Associates-Jack-H-Boyajian-Marv-Brandon-ripoff-Scam-artists-77582. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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Updates & Rebuttals

#1 UPDATE Employee

About NCO ....what is a debt collector to do?

AUTHOR: Gregory - (U.S.A.)

I have read one of the responses about NCO..
I actually do work for NCO..let me say this.. NCO is the largest collection agency in the world, they have over 150 offices employing thousands of people..among those people there are some 'bad oranges' now i am not sure how other offices work but, my office works like this.. you violate the fdcpa you are first suspended and or fired depending upon the situation..i am one to vouche for this....

some person was cussing screaming at me...and then saying crap like you mother f****r this mother f****r that...so i just said dont bring your mom into this...boom..as soon as my boss heard that suspension write up..i mean seriously..what is a debt collector to do?
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#2 Consumer Comment

I called the news in Minnesota about this company.

AUTHOR: Hilary - (U.S.A.)

The local news did have a segment about this company, I informed them. I have also sent a letter to the attorney general, who informed me that this company is in fact under investigation. I recieved a letter from JBC .. they are now JBC Legal Group. their address label on their envelope was on top of the JBC and Associates label with their new address in Bloomfield, NJ. Anyway, the adminstrative assistant, Cynthia Lewis, who didn't even sign the letter, wrote that I needed to contact NCO Financial about this so called debt that JBC swears I have... NCO is lo and behold a ripoff reported company, Imagine! I wish someone would investigate and shut this place down. I've tried emailing Fox9 Investigates and a tv station in new jersey, but apparently no one cares about a scamming company.
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#3 UPDATE Employee

training does involve a great deal of warning about violating the fdcpa

AUTHOR: Harry - (U.S.A.)

Hmmmm, I've been with the company less than 3 months. And I'm very confused.

Firstly I can tell you from experience, that the limited training does involve a great deal of warning about violating the fdcpa, which is the document that allows the possibility of santions and fines against a coll agency. Consistently, throughout the training they emphasize the things that should be avoided. For instance, if someone told you, JBC was 'taking you to court' rather than discussing the possibility of you ending up in court, they would be in violation of their training. Not that it doesn't happen, I've heard it happen. But I also know each collector there has been told not to do it.

The impetus for this bad behavior is often the pressure put on collectors to collect the issue. (Checks are not normal debt). Obviously, everyone makes more money if its PIF out of court. I haven't been there long but the general idea I got in the training is that they don't like to take people to court. Nowadays, lawyers have to be wary of the ability to practice, so they go into court legit and legit costs money. (They help ofset some of the costs by filing multiple suits at once.) But definitely they would rather you pay.

They have some fairly big companies, with big legal departments so don't bank on the fact they are "scam artists". And many of the FDCPA 'violations' are instigated by screaming debtors being confronted by a debt they thought would go away. It may be hard to prove that there is a culture of violations there.

Tim was correct, each state has VASTLY different laws concerning checks. Particularly, in many states, the statue of limitations is different for the penalties as opposed to the actual debt. Everyone should consult their local statues. (You might be surprised!)

Lastly let me say, Tim's best advice is to not assume that because they may have the wrong person, (I've spoken to people who both remember the debt and acknowledge it is still open) that they will not persue. I hear that a lot. The thing is that it's not unusual for creditors in a bankruptcy to try and collect the aged paper, with the blessing of the court. Also, not all of the accounts in-house are old checks, they do other business. There are a lot of large-print reports from people who probably have a legitimate beef, unfortunately, they handle hundreds of thousands of accounts, many of which are recent and valid. I'd hate people to get a false sense of security from the internet. Skip-tracing (which is how they find your addresses and phone numbers) is an inexact science at best and any debtors court will know this.
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#4 Consumer Comment

Information regarding statutory fees

AUTHOR: Tim - (U.S.A.)

I've had the opportunity to do some research and have foud that these "statutory fees" are not as illegitimate as previously thought.

Most states do in fact allow for what can amount to some pretty hefty fees in addition to the face value of the check. These can include a specific amount set by law, an amount totalling three times the value of the check, legal and court fees, and others.

Each state is different in what they allow, a few states don't allow anything. Also, each state is different in regards to what circumstances permit the fees to be tacked on. Some states require that you actually passed the check fraudulently, meaning that you were well aware that you didn't have the funds to cover the check rather than a simple oversight. Some states take the fact that you haven't made good on the check as evidence of fraudulent intent.

This, of course, doesn't rectify the rest of their behavior. From what I've read, Greg is right on track abou the FDCPA violations. Here's a good website where you can check their activities against the FDCPA:

http://fair-debt-collection.com/Debt_Collection_FAQ/Specific-FAQ.html#14 (no spaces, of course).
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#5 Consumer Comment

Information regarding statutory fees

AUTHOR: Tim - (U.S.A.)

I've had the opportunity to do some research and have foud that these "statutory fees" are not as illegitimate as previously thought.

Most states do in fact allow for what can amount to some pretty hefty fees in addition to the face value of the check. These can include a specific amount set by law, an amount totalling three times the value of the check, legal and court fees, and others.

Each state is different in what they allow, a few states don't allow anything. Also, each state is different in regards to what circumstances permit the fees to be tacked on. Some states require that you actually passed the check fraudulently, meaning that you were well aware that you didn't have the funds to cover the check rather than a simple oversight. Some states take the fact that you haven't made good on the check as evidence of fraudulent intent.

This, of course, doesn't rectify the rest of their behavior. From what I've read, Greg is right on track abou the FDCPA violations. Here's a good website where you can check their activities against the FDCPA:

http://fair-debt-collection.com/Debt_Collection_FAQ/Specific-FAQ.html#14 (no spaces, of course).
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#6 Consumer Comment

Information regarding statutory fees

AUTHOR: Tim - (U.S.A.)

I've had the opportunity to do some research and have foud that these "statutory fees" are not as illegitimate as previously thought.

Most states do in fact allow for what can amount to some pretty hefty fees in addition to the face value of the check. These can include a specific amount set by law, an amount totalling three times the value of the check, legal and court fees, and others.

Each state is different in what they allow, a few states don't allow anything. Also, each state is different in regards to what circumstances permit the fees to be tacked on. Some states require that you actually passed the check fraudulently, meaning that you were well aware that you didn't have the funds to cover the check rather than a simple oversight. Some states take the fact that you haven't made good on the check as evidence of fraudulent intent.

This, of course, doesn't rectify the rest of their behavior. From what I've read, Greg is right on track abou the FDCPA violations. Here's a good website where you can check their activities against the FDCPA:

http://fair-debt-collection.com/Debt_Collection_FAQ/Specific-FAQ.html#14 (no spaces, of course).
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#7 Consumer Comment

Information regarding statutory fees

AUTHOR: Tim - (U.S.A.)

I've had the opportunity to do some research and have foud that these "statutory fees" are not as illegitimate as previously thought.

Most states do in fact allow for what can amount to some pretty hefty fees in addition to the face value of the check. These can include a specific amount set by law, an amount totalling three times the value of the check, legal and court fees, and others.

Each state is different in what they allow, a few states don't allow anything. Also, each state is different in regards to what circumstances permit the fees to be tacked on. Some states require that you actually passed the check fraudulently, meaning that you were well aware that you didn't have the funds to cover the check rather than a simple oversight. Some states take the fact that you haven't made good on the check as evidence of fraudulent intent.

This, of course, doesn't rectify the rest of their behavior. From what I've read, Greg is right on track abou the FDCPA violations. Here's a good website where you can check their activities against the FDCPA:

http://fair-debt-collection.com/Debt_Collection_FAQ/Specific-FAQ.html#14 (no spaces, of course).
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#8 Consumer Suggestion

JBC and Associates a bunch of morons, violate the FDCPA..so watch out...

AUTHOR: Greg - (U.S.A.)

JBC and Associates are a bunch of morons, lets me just say. #1) the statutory fees, illegal, they are misrepresenting the debt.

As for the notorized letters, they kinda are a requirement...a notorized letter basically goes under the way of if i am lying you can have me arrested for purgery...

JBC will say a lot of things that violate the FDCPA..so watch out...
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#9 Consumer Suggestion

Oh I am not powerless at all. They did the same thing as JBC and even hired their collectors

AUTHOR: Scott - (U.S.A.)

If they made up some debt and called me I would be their worst nightmare. Do you remember national check control? They did the same thing as JBC and even hired their collectors. I had to deal with insults and abuse from them on the forums which is no biggie and I helped lead a campaign against them which got them sued by multiple states and the FTC. JBC has just come onto my main forum and stated we can do nothing to them as they get rich. A year ago NCC said the exact same thing. We will see who is laughing next year.
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#10 Consumer Comment

I think you are all failing to see the reality of how these guys operate.

AUTHOR: Tim - (U.S.A.)

I can see your points, but... Scott, you say that they won't sue. I don't know where you get that idea, but history and their own marketing campaign shows otherwise. They will sue. And as far as I can tell, they aren't really too concerned about suing the right person. But if they take you to court, and you don't show up to defend yourself, you are the right person in the eyes of the law, and you have lost the opportunity to show otherwise.

My point in sending them an ID is that this will provide a basis, if they do take you to court, to show that they are acting in bad faith. if you have taken affirmative steps to show that you are not the correct person, and they still take action against you, they have committed "abuse of process" and can be subject to a wide variety of sanctions including fines, reprimand, and disbarment. Additionally, you could well have a claim for malicious prosecution. If, however, you don't take steps to show them that they have the wrong person, the most they are guilty of is a good faith error.

If you think I'm mistaken about them taking you to court, take a look at their website and numerous other complaints on them. Their mode of operations is to aggressively pursue collection over the phone and through the mail, and if this doesn't work they take you to court. When they take you to court, they plan on you not showing up to defend yourself, which, according to them, happens 90% of the time. This is why so many businesses are using their services. Also, even if their extra charges are illegal, you have no standing to fight them if they get a default judgment on you.

I can certainly see why you wouldn't want to send them a copy of your pertinent information. But believe me, if they don't already have it, they can get it easily without you giving it to them personally. If they have your address, they can find out every piece of personal information imaginable, including your driver's liscence number, social security number, signature card etc. The way I see it, better you take the steps to show that you aren't the right person than they come up with the info on their own.

If you show up to court, they will have to produce a copy of the bounced check. You should probably get one from the bank yourself as well. If they try to pass off a phony check as one that you allegedly wrote, they would be looking at some very severe, probably criminal, penalties and probably wouldn't be able to practice law anymore. They know this full well, so I doubt they would do it, but I can definitely empathize with your fears.

The way I see it, you can gripe about these guys and think that you are powerless to stop them, or you can take affirmative measures to put them in their place. They may well be scam artists, but they are also a legitimate business, and maybe I am a touch naive, but I think there are a few lines they won't cross. And if they do cross those lines, then they are no longer just scammers subject to civil penalties, but criminals subject to jail time.
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#11 Consumer Comment

came across this website and am appalled at the number of complaints they have.

AUTHOR: Dawn - (U.S.A.)

Question for Tim in Indiana and Comment ....

I have recently been contacted by JBC about a 9 year old check to a company not in business anymore and am awaiting a copy of this check from JBC to verify if this is all legit...we'll see if they actually send it. While doing research on them, I came across this website and am appalled at the number of complaints they have.

So what I would like to know, Tim, IN might know...has anyone actually been served with a summons by them. I'm reading about threats, but any knowledge of JBC following through. I was told when I stated the Statue of Limitations had expired for them to collect this debt, they said they could still sue my civilly for the $40 check plus this and that other fees totalling $195. Do they actually follow through or just continue to harass? How do you get involved in the class action suits against them? Does anyone know if they are licensed in Mass.?

Michelle, listen to Tim, he seems to have actual good advice on what to do next. (but please block out your license number!)Read his comments on other complaints about this company. JBC will keep calling you and will not go away. Try to find out more info. on how to get involved in stopping them as I am. Good luck.

Tim, any advice for me?
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#12 Consumer Comment

came across this website and am appalled at the number of complaints they have.

AUTHOR: Dawn - (U.S.A.)

Question for Tim in Indiana and Comment ....

I have recently been contacted by JBC about a 9 year old check to a company not in business anymore and am awaiting a copy of this check from JBC to verify if this is all legit...we'll see if they actually send it. While doing research on them, I came across this website and am appalled at the number of complaints they have.

So what I would like to know, Tim, IN might know...has anyone actually been served with a summons by them. I'm reading about threats, but any knowledge of JBC following through. I was told when I stated the Statue of Limitations had expired for them to collect this debt, they said they could still sue my civilly for the $40 check plus this and that other fees totalling $195. Do they actually follow through or just continue to harass? How do you get involved in the class action suits against them? Does anyone know if they are licensed in Mass.?

Michelle, listen to Tim, he seems to have actual good advice on what to do next. (but please block out your license number!)Read his comments on other complaints about this company. JBC will keep calling you and will not go away. Try to find out more info. on how to get involved in stopping them as I am. Good luck.

Tim, any advice for me?
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#13 Consumer Comment

came across this website and am appalled at the number of complaints they have.

AUTHOR: Dawn - (U.S.A.)

Question for Tim in Indiana and Comment ....

I have recently been contacted by JBC about a 9 year old check to a company not in business anymore and am awaiting a copy of this check from JBC to verify if this is all legit...we'll see if they actually send it. While doing research on them, I came across this website and am appalled at the number of complaints they have.

So what I would like to know, Tim, IN might know...has anyone actually been served with a summons by them. I'm reading about threats, but any knowledge of JBC following through. I was told when I stated the Statue of Limitations had expired for them to collect this debt, they said they could still sue my civilly for the $40 check plus this and that other fees totalling $195. Do they actually follow through or just continue to harass? How do you get involved in the class action suits against them? Does anyone know if they are licensed in Mass.?

Michelle, listen to Tim, he seems to have actual good advice on what to do next. (but please block out your license number!)Read his comments on other complaints about this company. JBC will keep calling you and will not go away. Try to find out more info. on how to get involved in stopping them as I am. Good luck.

Tim, any advice for me?
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#14 Consumer Suggestion

Ridiculous, This company collects on time barred checks and uses illegal threats to collect on them.

AUTHOR: Scott - (U.S.A.)

Ridiculous comments Tim. Only a complete fool would make a copy of their drivers license and send it in. Let's give them the ammot to falsify your signature(and if you think it never happens think again). This company collects on time barred checks and uses illegal threats to collect on them. Most of the time the checks never even belonged to that person and they know it. This person does NOT need to find proof the check is not theirs. JBC is required by law to provide that proof yet they will never do so because they cannot. They will make up some ficticious law stating it is illegal which is the biggest bunch of crap I have ever seen. They will not sue so no worries there and their $100 fee is illegal.
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#15 Consumer Comment

Objectivity flows like wine in the crossroads of America

AUTHOR: Tim - (U.S.A.)

Bonita, all you know about me is that I presented a somewhat objective viewpoint. I still gave Michelle the benefit of the doubt, but her account of the situtation simply didn't make sense to me. And it still doesn't. If they don't even have her last name, then what is she worried about?

If you left Indiana years ago, then you left long before I got here, so I fail to see how I, specifically, could be the reason you left Indiana! Also, if you left Indiana to get away from people with a sense of objectivity and critical thinking skills, then I guess Tennesse was a great choice! (just joking around on that one, Tennessee is a great state)

Michelle, if they don't even have your last name, then simply send them a cease and decist letter. I fail to understand why you are so concerned about this if they don't even have your last name. I also fail to see why sending them proof that you are not their intended target would be anything but beneficial to you. The only information on your driver's liscence that they don't already have is the correct spelling of the last name and your ID number. Block out the number if you're concerned about it, but until you show them that they have the last name wrong they're going to assume that they have it right.

If you don't want to follow my advice then that is your prerogative. I would like for you to not be another number that they can tack on to their default judgment statistic. I deplore the tactics of this outfit as much as the next guy, and I know exactly how they go about screwing people like you over, and I know exactly how you can combat it. If you like the idea of having a default judgment entered aginst you for something you never did, if you like the idea of having your wages garnished, and if you like the idea of a massive blight on your credit report, then go ahead and ignore me.

But don't ignore the summons, and don't expect the BBB, attorney general, bar association etc. to solve your problems. JBC preys on people who would rather complain about their peoblems than make the effort to protect their rights. Not that you shouldn't raise your concerns, but you can't stop there.

Best wishes
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#16 Consumer Comment

MICHELLE IN DAYTON, MN,...YOU ARE NOT ALONE

AUTHOR: BONITA - (U.S.A.)

I want to thank Michelle for taking the time just as I did to alert other non suspecting HONEST people that JBC Legal Group, P.C. are SCAM ARTISTS! I had the same experience and decided to do something about it. Something should be done about these people. I read a response on this website from a former employee and that just about says it all. And to Tim from Valpo, if you are reading this, YOU and people like you are the reason I left Indiana years ago.
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#17 Author of original report

sounds like you're trying to help them harrass me

AUTHOR: Michelle - (U.S.A.)

Responding to Tim in Indiana ...Yes, they had my name partially right. My first name. Wrong address for the wrong person, what's the difference?

Give JBC a copy of my drivers licence? Are you out of your mind? Have you read anything more about this law firm on the internet?

I believe they were even on the news here in Minnesota for trying to scam people out of money.

Thanks for the advice, but it sounds like you're trying to help them harrass me more by giving them the information they would like to have about me.
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#18 Author of original report

sounds like you're trying to help them harrass me

AUTHOR: Michelle - (U.S.A.)

Responding to Tim in Indiana ...Yes, they had my name partially right. My first name. Wrong address for the wrong person, what's the difference?

Give JBC a copy of my drivers licence? Are you out of your mind? Have you read anything more about this law firm on the internet?

I believe they were even on the news here in Minnesota for trying to scam people out of money.

Thanks for the advice, but it sounds like you're trying to help them harrass me more by giving them the information they would like to have about me.
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#19 Author of original report

sounds like you're trying to help them harrass me

AUTHOR: Michelle - (U.S.A.)

Responding to Tim in Indiana ...Yes, they had my name partially right. My first name. Wrong address for the wrong person, what's the difference?

Give JBC a copy of my drivers licence? Are you out of your mind? Have you read anything more about this law firm on the internet?

I believe they were even on the news here in Minnesota for trying to scam people out of money.

Thanks for the advice, but it sounds like you're trying to help them harrass me more by giving them the information they would like to have about me.
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#20 Author of original report

sounds like you're trying to help them harrass me

AUTHOR: Michelle - (U.S.A.)

Responding to Tim in Indiana ...Yes, they had my name partially right. My first name. Wrong address for the wrong person, what's the difference?

Give JBC a copy of my drivers licence? Are you out of your mind? Have you read anything more about this law firm on the internet?

I believe they were even on the news here in Minnesota for trying to scam people out of money.

Thanks for the advice, but it sounds like you're trying to help them harrass me more by giving them the information they would like to have about me.
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#21 Consumer Comment

The M.O. of JBC - 90% default judgment rate

AUTHOR: TIm - (U.S.A.)

I'm wondering why you are even concerned about this if the letter didn't have your name on it? And why did you even open a piece of mail that wasn't yours in the first place? It just doesn't add up. When I receive mail that is addressed to my house, but is intended for someone who doesn't live here, I either put it back in the mail with a note saying "no such resident at this address" or just discard it. I don't open it up and assume that whatever business is inside pertains to me simply because it was sent to my address.

It seems as though, if you felt the need to call them up, they at least had your name partially right, but probably mispelled. Otherwise, the only reason I would see for calling them would be to say "you have the wrong address for the person you are trying to contact" and not "you have the wrong person."

All that aside, I'm assuming that you are being truthful in that this is not your debt. First, don't count on JBC to let you know what your rights are. As they are attorneys representing a business adverse to you they owe no duties to you. They are not required to tell you what you actually need to do to clear this up, and if you ask them they will probably tell you that you have to do something much more difficult than what is actually required (i.e. a notarized statement from the bank).

Second, keep in mind that if they have the wrong person, ultimately it is their problem, not yours, as long as you protect your rights. JBC boasts a 90% default rate. This means that when they take people to court over bounced checks (which they will most likely do in your case), 90% of the time the individual doesn't even show up to defend himself. Don't let yourself be counted in this statistic!

This is what I would do in your situation. First, get another notarized letter from the bank. Second, make a photocopy of your driver's liscence (make sure your address is on the ID, if not make a photocopy of a utility bill with your name and adress on it as well). Third, write a letter explaining that they are attempting to collect a debt from you that you do not owe, as evidenced by the statement from the bank. Tell them to cease any further communications with you. Take these three things with you to the post office and bring a witness with you who can attest to what you are sending out. Send the items return receipt requested to JBC.

After this, forget about the matter. If they send you anything else, keep it. If they call you, call the operator immediately afterward and have him document the call.

Keep an eye out for a summons in the mail. Remember that they are planning on your default! If they get a default judgment on you you are out of luck because, in the eyes of the law, the debt will be valid. The summons will have a copy of their complaint attached to it, and will detail the process for answering the complaint. Use the documentation that you sent out and your witness to your advantage. Answer the complaint, go to court and prove that you are not the person they were after and, furthermore, that you provided them with ample evidence of this and they still took you to court. The judge may impose a nice sanction on them, or you may even be able to file a counterclaim.

Best of luck to you, and please be aware that I am not an attorney and this should not be taken as competent legal advice. You may well have rights outside of what I have stated, and there may be a better way to go about this. Only an attorney can give you a reliable picture of your rights.
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